1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of Hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: biblical truth, and now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: I'm Shanti Feldhan. 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 4: And I'm Jeff Feldon. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: Every one of us has a real need to build 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: our relationship skills, and most of us don't even realize it. 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 2: For example, in relationship advice, we often hear you can't 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: change the other person, you can only change yourself. But 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: what does that mean? Strong people skills aren't just essential 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: for our closest relationships. They shape the impact we all 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: have on the world. And as you'll hear from our 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: friend Deborah Faleda, all of us have some blind spots 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: in that area. That's what we're going to talk about 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: today on I Wish You Could Hear This. 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 4: Deborah, let me just introduce you to our listeners. 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: Deborah Fhialeda is a licensed professional counselor, speaker and founder 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 3: of the Deborah Fhaleda Counselors Network. 23 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 4: She's a best selling author. 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: Of nine books, Wow, including Soul Care and Are You 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: Really Okay? And her newest book, People Skills, which we'll 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: be chatting with her today about. Deborah is also the 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: host of a popular podcast and nationally syndicated radio show, 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: Talk to Me, where she facilitates authentic, on air counseling 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: style sessions with notable pastors and leaders. She and her 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: husband John have become friends of ours and Deborah I 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: have to say John hits all of my male insecurity buttons. 32 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 4: You know. He is six foot four something like that's all. 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: He's got my surgeon, he's good looking, all of those 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: things that I was like sitting across the table from 35 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: you guys, and I'm going this guy, I. 36 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 4: Can't believe he's real. So we are all that aside. 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: We're delighted that you've decided to join us here on 38 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: our podcast. 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 4: So welcome. 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: It is so good to be here. 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 5: And can I just say John is your number one fan, Jeff, he. 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: Loves you. 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Mutual. 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: That's awesome. We had the funnest for our listeners to 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: know what the heck we're talking about. We always whenever 46 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: Deborah and I crosspaths at events. We always try to 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: get at least a little bit of time together, which 48 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 2: is sometimes a bit difficult. But we had the biggest 49 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: blessing a number of years ago. We were at the 50 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 2: American Association of Christian Counselor's big World Conference. It's every 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: two years down in in this case, it was down 52 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: in Orlando. I think that one was down in Orlando, 53 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: and so that was probably five years ago, right, And 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: we said let's go out to dinner, and finally we 55 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: look up and the servers have like turned off the 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: whole lines tried to get us out. We were there 57 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: for four hours. I know didn't realize it. Because you 58 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: guys are very fun, and I hope our listeners will 59 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: see some of the reason we love you guys. 60 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 3: Well. 61 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 5: Sadly, I'm not as fun without John, but I still 62 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 5: think we'll have a good time and cover some really 63 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 5: good content. 64 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: We are going to cover some really good content for 65 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: all of our listeners. Jeff and I really believe God 66 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: has given Deborah a lot of insight. And before we 67 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: jump into the topic, because we're primarily going to be 68 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: talking about your new book, people skills and some of 69 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: these important crossovers that we talk about all the time 70 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: about the importance of these relationship skills. Before we dive 71 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: into that, tell us give give our listeners a little backstory. 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: What led you to get into Christian counseling and ultimately 73 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: a number of years ago you actually started a counseling network. 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: Tell us a bit about that. 75 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, I have been so grateful for the opportunity to 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 5: be a counselor, a licensed counselor. And it's funny because 77 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 5: it wasn't always on my radar. I thought I would 78 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 5: go into medicine someday. That was kind of the family thing. 79 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 5: A lot of my family members went into medicine, and 80 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 5: I remember kind of starting down that path and realizing 81 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 5: I really loved interacting with the people, but I hated 82 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 5: the medicine part. 83 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: You know, that wasn't my thing. 84 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 5: And so that's when God really turned my heart toward 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 5: the idea of counseling. And coming from a Middle Eastern background, 86 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 5: I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, but coming from 87 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 5: a Middle Eastern background, counseling isn't really a thing. So 88 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 5: it was really going against the grain in my culture. 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 5: But it just feels so like God to do that. 90 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 5: And you know, now over twenty years into this, and 91 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 5: the Lord has allowed me to establish a team of counselors, 92 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 5: to be able to write books about healthy relationships, mental 93 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 5: and emotional health, to get to travel the country and 94 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 5: even the world talking about deeper healing. And it's just 95 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 5: it's just such a privilege to be able to get 96 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 5: to do what I do. 97 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: Oh that's awesome. 98 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 3: Wow, that I mean, and the world has benefited from 99 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 3: your willingness to do that, Deborah, let me just say. 100 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 4: That first, full stop. 101 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 3: So as a next step, though, with all the topics 102 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 3: you could have picked for your latest book, tell us 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 3: why you picked this one on people's skills. 104 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 5: I think primarily because I was noticing the lack thereof 105 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 5: in our world. I remember, I literally remember the day 106 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 5: I texted my publisher and I was like, people need 107 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 5: people skills these days. Like I must have had some 108 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 5: sort of I don't even remember the exact interaction, but 109 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 5: I just remember observing something while I was out and 110 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 5: about in the world and thinking, Wow, we are really 111 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 5: struggling in this generation to know how to interact and 112 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 5: engage in a healthy way. And add to that, we 113 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 5: live in such a tech saturated world where where you 114 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 5: used to have to go to the grocery store and 115 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 5: have an interaction with a live human being, or go 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 5: to the library you know, and have an interaction with 117 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 5: the librarian. 118 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: Everything is on a screen. 119 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 5: Order your groceries, you select, leave them at my door, 120 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 5: so you don't even have to have a conversation with anybody. 121 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 5: So even where we would have had these natural opportunities 122 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 5: to develop our people skills, we no longer have those opportunities. 123 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 5: And our whole world is online, our our social connections, 124 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 5: the way that we learn to relate to people, the 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 5: template we're learning is coming from social media rather than 126 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 5: real life. And I think we take some of those 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 5: bad lessons, those bad skills, those unhelpful things, and we 128 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 5: bring them to real life. And so I think first 129 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 5: and foremost it was just seeing the lack of people's 130 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 5: skills in our culture. But deeper than that, I think 131 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: Biblically speaking, we're called to convey God's love. We're called 132 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 5: to show people the un blemished love of God. And 133 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 5: instead of conveying God's love, because of our lack of skill, 134 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 5: we're convoluting God's love. We're not conveying it in the 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 5: right way. And I think of Paul in First Corinthians nine, 136 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 5: where he says, I have learned to become all things 137 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 5: to all people, so that by all means possible, some 138 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 5: might be saved. And to me, that's the epitome of 139 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 5: why we're doing this, not to become more popular, to 140 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 5: become more influential, to be a better communicator. I'm not 141 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 5: saying all of those things won't be a byproduct of 142 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 5: learning people's skills, but the goal, the goal, my heart 143 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 5: goal for this is so that we can convey God's 144 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 5: love to a lost and desperate world, starting from our 145 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 5: closest relationships to our most superficial relationships. 146 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: So that's really my heart for it. 147 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: So that's so good. Well, and it's true, I mean, 148 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: just thinking out loud here, it's it is accurate that 149 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: if we are going to be a winsome presence to 150 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: the world, we have to be winsome, right. We have 151 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: to be able to look like and share like, and 152 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: interact like Jesus would have us, other than be nervous 153 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: and you know, kind of avoiding hard conversations or whatever. 154 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: It is one of the things we were stunned when 155 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: we saw this report from IFS. I don't know if 156 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: you ever read the Institute for Family Studies stuff that 157 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: comes out, but there was a major study about people 158 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: who are dating. And one of the reasons that seventy 159 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: percent of people who want to be dating want to 160 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: be in a serious relationship but aren't is that they 161 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: feel like they have this lack of confidence in just 162 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: basic skills like this, like the ability to approach somebody 163 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: they're interested in, or how do you handle it if 164 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: somebody's not interested or they like you said, like we 165 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: used to have to do this and have to be 166 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: out there and have to have these awkward conversations starting 167 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: when we were probably eleven years old, and now we're not. 168 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 4: Well, you know. 169 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: The fascinating thing to me on all of this is 170 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: we're writers, all of us here, and we write about 171 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 3: this stuff. 172 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 4: There is not a. 173 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 3: Lack of information out there for people to be reading 174 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 3: about and hearing and trying to understand about, you know, 175 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: themselves or about others that's out there. There's great sources 176 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 3: for this, But I think of it like almost like baseball. 177 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: You know, I can study baseball. I can read great 178 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: biographies of people who have been successful baseball players. I 179 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 3: can even know the physics, and you know of the 180 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 3: spin rate of a pitch that it's going to be 181 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: a curveball, or the velocity or all of those sorts 182 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: of things. But until I actually get in a batter's 183 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: box and try to hit it and swing a few times, 184 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: all of it is just knowledge. And sometimes you know, 185 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: that's what I think maybe at its core, you know, 186 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: folks just need to get in the batter's box and 187 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: start taking some swings. 188 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: Well, can I just can I jump onto that, because Deborah, 189 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: one of the things that would actually be helpful speaking 190 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: of taking a few swings at people skills so that 191 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: people can because we always try to be super practical, 192 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 2: as I know you do too. Tell us, let's back 193 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: up for a second. How do you define people's skills? Like, 194 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: give us just sort of a basic starting point. 195 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 5: How do you find that? 196 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: I think the most simple way to think about. 197 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 5: People's skills is how I show up in relationships and 198 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 5: my ability to honor my feelings needs perspective while also 199 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 5: honoring the feelings, needs and perspectives of the person in 200 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 5: front of me. There's got to be that balance to 201 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 5: how we relate and interact with people and It's interesting 202 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 5: because most people that I've interacted with think they have 203 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 5: people's skills. And I think that's the dangerous part about 204 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 5: this whole topic is we haven't even understood the depth 205 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 5: of what people's skills are. 206 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: Oftentimes people will say, oh, yeah, I have people skills. 207 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 5: I love people, I'm good with people, I'm really extroverted, 208 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 5: or I can hold down a conversation with a wall. 209 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 5: That doesn't mean you have good people's skills. That means 210 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 5: you're a talker, you know, and you could be an extrovert. 211 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: But you walk in a room and. 212 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 5: You're an attention vortex and you take all the attention 213 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 5: on you. That is not good people's skills. You can 214 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 5: talk about things for three hours and make jokes and 215 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 5: laugh and stay superficial in your interactions. 216 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: That is not good people's skills. 217 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 5: People's skills are much deeper than that. And as you 218 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 5: look through the book, you'll notice there's thirty one different 219 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 5: skills that we zoom in on, and that's not even 220 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 5: all of them. That's just the ones that I've found 221 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,599 Speaker 5: to be the most important. As we're actually trying to 222 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 5: make some practical, tangible steps in the right direction. But 223 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 5: things like, can you repair a relationship after rupture? Most people, 224 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 5: once a relationship is ruptured, they kind of walk away. 225 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 5: They don't know what to do with it. 226 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: Do you have empathy? Are you assertive, passive or aggressive 227 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: in your communication style? 228 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 5: What's your body language and how does it come across 229 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 5: and what does it tell people with or without you 230 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 5: realizing it? What's the tone of your voice, the posture 231 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 5: of your body. I mean, there are so many subtleties 232 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 5: and places where we really have to be emotionally insightful, 233 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 5: emotionally aware in order to have good people's skills. 234 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: So it's a lot. 235 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 5: Deeper than just being able to have a basic conversation 236 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 5: with someone. Wow. 237 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: You know, as I heard you say that about the 238 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: people who think they have good people skills but may not. 239 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 4: It reminded me of the scene in Harry met Sally. 240 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: Okay, so for our listeners under forty years old, Harry 241 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: met Sally was a very popular rom com, one of 242 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: the first. But there's this scene where Harry is saying, 243 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 3: you know, there's. 244 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 4: Two types, three types of women. 245 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: You know, there's the high maintenance women and then there's 246 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: the low maintenance women. And Sally said, well, what am I, 247 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: and he said, you're the worst of all. You're a 248 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: high maintenance woman who thinks she's low maintenance. 249 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 4: And that's your people skills. 250 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: That's the people who think they're really good at it, 251 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: but they're not. 252 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 253 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: The thing that you said, Deborah, that I think I'd 254 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: like to sort of press in on a little bit 255 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: is that when we actually see what these like you 256 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: labeled thirty you said you had thirty one that you've 257 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: identified for the book, and there's more than that when 258 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: you start digging into them, and in my experience, at 259 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: least with myself, it's actually digging into the examples and 260 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: the practical sort of way it plays out that help 261 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: us go oh, like, oh, I'm not as good as 262 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: I thought. So I'll give you an example from my life, 263 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: but I would love to get a couple examples from 264 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: you so that people can hear themselves hopefully in what 265 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: you have to share. So for me, one of the 266 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: AHA moments was years ago when we did you'll probably remember, 267 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: we did the Kindness Challenge research and we had that 268 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: thirty day Kindness Challenge initiative, and I thought, you know, 269 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: one of the things you do every day for thirty 270 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: days is you don't say anything negative or unkind about someone, 271 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: either to them or about them to somebody else. And 272 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I'll have to work on the other pieces, 273 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 2: but I'm good at that, Like I'm pretty positive, I'm 274 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: not mean, I'm you know whatever, And oh my word. 275 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: Once I actually started how I mean to actually practice this, 276 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: I realized I was actually unkind or probably in your words, 277 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: having very poor people skills every single day, because one 278 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: of the patterns that we had identified was exasperation or irritation, 279 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 2: and I didn't realize how often if I'd be talking 280 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: to the kids or talking to a colleague or something, 281 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: there would be this or. 282 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: Can't forget Jeff, Jeff. 283 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: There would be the slight eye roll, there would be 284 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 2: the slight huff, there would be again body language, some 285 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: of the little sort of habits that I had no idea. 286 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: I was basically saying, you're an idiot, Like I wouldn't 287 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: ever want to say. 288 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 4: That to my sweet husband would. 289 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: But that's kind of what I was signaling. So that 290 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: to me was the big aha moment, Like, oh my word, 291 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: can you give our listeners a couple of other examples 292 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: so that they maybe see what you. 293 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: Mean, yeah. 294 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 5: I remember one time I was working with this couple 295 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 5: in couple's therapy and the wife exuded this face that 296 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 5: was just upset and angry and cold. There wasn't a 297 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 5: smile on her face. It was just, you know, a 298 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 5: cold demeanor. And one of the topics of conversation was 299 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 5: that her husband didn't know what she was feeling, and 300 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 5: more likely than not, he would feel that she was 301 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 5: upset about something like hey, what's going on or something wrong, 302 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 5: and she would say, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, 303 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 5: and it was causing some issues because it felt like 304 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 5: repressed emotion. And so we're talking through this in our 305 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 5: session and she's like, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, and 306 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 5: he's like, well, then tell that to your face, because 307 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 5: your face is exuding something completely different. And so a 308 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 5: big part of that for her was actually having an 309 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 5: awareness and an insight, well, what is my resting face. 310 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: And why is it that way? 311 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 5: I think for some people this stuff is rooted in 312 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 5: things that are a little bit deeper. There's always a 313 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 5: little bit deeper of well, why do I exude a 314 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 5: certain demeanor? 315 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: And for her it was it was a safety mechanism, 316 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: a coping skill of. 317 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 5: Just almost like the poker face of like, I don't 318 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 5: feel safe to share what's going on inside of me, 319 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 5: so I'm going to keep my emotions to myself. That 320 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 5: was part of her childhood, growing up with an alcoholic 321 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 5: father and just wanting to make sure she didn't rock 322 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 5: the boat. But without realizing it, that became part of 323 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 5: her physical demeanor. 324 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: Wowow. 325 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 5: And so she doesn't have the insight. She just thinks 326 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 5: there's nothing wrong. I'm fine. Why are you, you know, 327 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 5: acting like I'm upset? 328 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: Why are you. 329 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 5: Constantly Because her face was communicating something that she wasn't 330 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 5: even realizing. And so, if you think about it, most 331 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 5: of us aren't really aware of how we look. The 332 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 5: only fraction of people that I have found to actually 333 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 5: be aware are actors and performers because they have to 334 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 5: hold up a mirror and practice their parts in front 335 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 5: of a mirror. But the average human being doesn't do that. 336 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 5: We don't see ourselves when we're in the middle of 337 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 5: an argument. We don't see ourselves when we're meeting someone 338 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 5: for the first time. 339 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: What do I look like? What is my physical body? 340 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: My mannerisms, my facial expressions. 341 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 5: What do they express are they open body language or. 342 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: Closed body language? 343 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 5: And I talk through the difference between those two in 344 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 5: people's skills, because things such as how you have your 345 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 5: hands when you meet somebody, you show up to a 346 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 5: conversation with your arms crossed. Maybe it just feels comfortable 347 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 5: for you, but you don't realize that you're actually communicating 348 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 5: stay away self protection distance. Whereas you meet somebody and 349 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 5: you're using your hands to talk and you're smiling and 350 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 5: your eyes are wide open, and it presents differently. And 351 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 5: so some of this stuff is cultural and how you 352 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 5: were raised and how you grew up. Some of it 353 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 5: is just skills that you have to learn along the 354 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 5: way people never taught you. 355 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: Or or no one ever told you. I appreciate how. 356 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 5: Blunt this husband was in the moment of like tell 357 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 5: that to your face, because in reality, who cares about 358 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 5: us enough and loves us enough to offer that type 359 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 5: of a mirror like, Hey, here's how you're coming across 360 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 5: whether or not you realize it, And maybe this is 361 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 5: something for you to consider. 362 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: You know, we don't have. 363 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 5: People like that in our lives that we just invite 364 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 5: them to give us feedback of how we're coming across. 365 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 5: And it would do us well to have people like that. 366 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 5: So my hope is that people skills acts like a 367 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 5: mirror to people who are reading it of maybe opening 368 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 5: their eyes to something that someone has never told them 369 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 5: before and something that they need to consider that they 370 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 5: haven't considered before. 371 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 4: Wow. 372 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 3: I mean that's I'm thinking all the time that we're 373 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 3: talking here, like, oh my gosh, what are those things 374 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 3: that I convey that I am totally unaware of as 375 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 3: I sit here with my arms crossed because it's comfortable 376 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 3: for me, right right right? 377 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: How basic is that? 378 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right, eye contact, tone, body language, posture, and 379 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 5: those are just the superficial things. I mean, we go 380 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 5: even deeper with our empathy levels and our. 381 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: Ability, Yes, talk about the empathy thing. 382 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, huge, it's huge, because it is our ability to 383 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 5: enter someone else's reality, to enter someone else's experience, to 384 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 5: think about what might they be thinking and feeling in 385 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 5: this moment, not just what am I thinking and feeling 386 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 5: in this moment. And we have a tendency to get 387 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 5: out of balance in either direction. I know some people, 388 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 5: particularly people pleasers. There's a whole chapter on people pleasing 389 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 5: who think so much about what everybody else is thinking 390 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 5: and feeling that they don't have any awareness of what 391 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 5: they're thinking and feeling. 392 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: But that's not healthy either. 393 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 5: We need to have a balance where I'm aware of 394 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 5: what I'm thinking and feeling and how I'm showing up, 395 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 5: but I'm also aware of what you might be thinking, 396 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 5: how you might be feeling, how this experience is affecting you. 397 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: And I'm taking that seriously. I value that. And I 398 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: think social media teaches. 399 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 5: Us not to have empathy because we're given this opportunity 400 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 5: to go online where the goal is to spotlight ourselves. 401 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 5: What am I thinking, what am I feeling? What did 402 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 5: I eat for dinner? 403 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,959 Speaker 1: What do I need? What's my opinion on this hot topic? 404 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 5: With out having empathy of everybody else and what they 405 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 5: might be feeling and thinking and experiencing, what might their 406 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 5: experience be in this situation and why? And I think 407 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 5: empathy is such an important skill when we're interacting with people, 408 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 5: to be able to understand their perspective and to value 409 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 5: their perspective and to really make sure we're attuned and 410 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 5: listening because it matters to us. And if we don't 411 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 5: have empathy, we can't put ourselves. 412 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: In someone else's shoes. 413 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 5: We're going to be lacking something in that interaction. We're 414 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 5: going to be missing that connection and that intimacy that 415 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 5: we could otherwise have. 416 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: And I know this is a skill because I have 417 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: a girl and three boys, and. 418 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 5: We're constantly working on the skill of empathy, Like what 419 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 5: might somebody else be thinking? And when you're in middle school, 420 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 5: boy or girl, the spotlight is on you all the time. 421 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 5: What you're thinking about is how you feel, what you're thinking, 422 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 5: what you need, what people think of you, and that's 423 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 5: just not reality. Like we have to be able to 424 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 5: take that spotlight and practice putting it on the people 425 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 5: around us and really trying to connect with their experiences. 426 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 2: It's interesting what this reminds me of, Jeff is the 427 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie. 428 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 4: What are you think you're going? 429 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: Okay, So, Deborah, I don't know if I've ever told 430 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: you this story, but to sort of open my open 431 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 2: my past to all of our listeners when I grew up. 432 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: As I was growing up, one of the things that 433 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: was really challenging for me was I didn't have these 434 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: people skills at all. So I really didn't have friends 435 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: until really sort of late high school and then in college, 436 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: and it was the development of the skills that changed that. 437 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: And now we have amazing friends right who we love 438 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: like you. But the thing that really flipped a switch 439 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 2: for me was I think I was probably twelve years 440 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: old and my grandmother. We spent a lot of time 441 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 2: with my grandmother and grandfather in Kansas City, and my 442 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 2: grandmother handed me this old copy of Dale Carnegie's book 443 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 2: How to Win Friends and Influence People as. 444 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 4: A twelve year old. 445 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: As a twelve year old, picture this right like it's 446 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: so funny. You think of it as a leadership book, 447 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: a business book, whatever. But the premise, which was revolutionary 448 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 2: for me, was a simple skill shift of instead of 449 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 2: trying to get people to like you by getting attention 450 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: on you, which is what I was trying to do, 451 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: instead put your attention on them and ask them questions 452 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: about themselves. Just be interesting, did in them. 453 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they will think you're the greatest conversation. 454 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 2: Ever ever, which is actually it's really true. And so 455 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: that one, that's an example of a simple shift, one 456 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 2: little people's skill shift that for me ended up unlocking 457 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 2: a completely different life. 458 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, think about it, Shanty. 459 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 5: You literally took that into your career, asking people question 460 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 5: points investigating, researching. 461 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I mean, even just. 462 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 5: That connection is wild to me because that is now 463 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 5: what you do for a living. 464 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: That's a good point, which believe that is true. Well, 465 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 2: the thing that I'm curious about is that just to 466 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: give some people hope, Like I'm thinking of somebody listening 467 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 2: to this, who let's just say it's somebody in their 468 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: twenties and I'm just gonna give you an arc type. Okay, 469 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: let's just pretend it's somebody in their twenties, or maybe 470 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: it's a parent of somebody in their twenties. And somebody 471 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: in their twenties is they would love to have more friends, 472 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 2: They would love to be dating out there, you know, 473 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: a member of the opposite sex to have a boyfriend 474 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: or a girlfriend. But they hold themselves back out of anxiety. 475 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 2: And this is common today because of what you said earlier, 476 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: like we've just we didn't grow up this generation didn't 477 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 2: grow up practicing that enough to be super confident. So 478 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 2: what would be an example of maybe one step, maybe 479 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 2: two steps that would get that person started, like it 480 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: would just get some forward movement started with developing a 481 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 2: few of those people skills that would help them stop 482 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 2: pulling themselves back. 483 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 5: I think what you said is so important because our 484 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 5: behavior is a result of our belief system at the 485 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 5: end of the day. So your belief system one is 486 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 5: I don't have anything to offer, and I really hope 487 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 5: people like me. I really hope people find me interesting 488 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 5: and really you know. And so once you change that 489 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 5: mindset to I want to value other people, all of 490 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 5: a sudden, it changed the way that you showed. 491 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: Up in a room. 492 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 5: And one activity that I have people do in the 493 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 5: book is I have them imagine they walk in a 494 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 5: room with ninety nine other people and there's people and 495 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 5: you know it's an experiment, but you don't know what 496 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 5: the experiment is. So you walk in a room, how 497 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 5: do you show up? 498 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: What would you do? 499 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: First off, that's an introverts nightmare. 500 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 4: Let me just tell you from the introvert side of 501 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 4: this relationship. 502 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: Yes. 503 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: Wow. 504 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 5: So some people might say, well, I want to hide 505 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 5: and hope no one talks to me and stand by 506 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 5: the wall and kind of cause the least amount of 507 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 5: attention possible, whereas others like Shanty might go in and say, well, 508 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 5: this is super awkward. So I'm just going to start 509 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 5: asking questions. 510 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: And see if I can, you know. 511 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 5: Get some conversation going, whereas somebody else might be the 512 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 5: life of the party, cracking jokes, making people laugh. 513 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: And if we actually think about. 514 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 5: It, the reason we do what we do is rooted 515 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 5: in the belief system that we carry as we show 516 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 5: up in that room. 517 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: If the belief system is. 518 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 5: I have something to offer, then I'm going to go 519 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 5: in there with a completely different set of behaviors than 520 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 5: the belief system of I hope people like me. I 521 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 5: don't know if they will. Am I even adequate? 522 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: Wow? 523 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: Am I valuable? What do they think of me? How's 524 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: my hair? 525 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 5: You know? Like, depending on our belief system, it changes 526 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 5: how we show up. And so for that person who 527 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 5: is like I don't know about data, I feel insecure, 528 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 5: I'm inadequate, I'm afraid of rejection. The first step is 529 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 5: to really narrow down our belief systems that we're bringing 530 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 5: into a relationship. And I feel that that has a 531 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 5: big effect on social anxiety in general. I remember, you know, 532 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 5: even as a speaker, when I first started doing this, 533 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 5: and I would have to speak in front of rooms 534 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 5: of thousands of people, and it's like, oh my goodness, 535 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 5: I would feel anxious and I would think, are they 536 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 5: going to be bored? Am I entertaining enough? Is this 537 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 5: like new information? Are they going to think this is silly? 538 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: Is this engaging? 539 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 5: And I'm thinking about all that I am receiving from them, 540 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 5: all of the feedback that I will be getting from them. 541 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: And the one shift that the Lord. 542 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 5: I just actually remember I was putting something in the 543 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 5: fridge thinking about a speaking engagement I had coming up, 544 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 5: and I remember God stopped in my tracks and said, 545 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 5: I want you to stop thinking about what you're receiving 546 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 5: from them and go in there with the mindset of 547 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 5: what you're giving them. 548 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: I gave you a message, you're there to give the 549 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: gift and walk away. 550 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 5: And that changed everything for me. It truly took my 551 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 5: anxiety from an eighty percent down to a ten percent. 552 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 5: The normal jitters, but I truly can get up there 553 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 5: now and think I am here to offer something and 554 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 5: leave it and walk away. And I think if we 555 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 5: had that mindset as we walked into a room of 556 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 5: ninety nine other people, God, what have you given me 557 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 5: to give in this place? Do I really believe that 558 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 5: I have something to give? Because even the introvert Jeff 559 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 5: has something really valuable that those ninety nine other people 560 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 5: don't have, and that valuable gift God has in trusted 561 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 5: you to give. And So when I think about that, 562 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 5: as it applies to a room of ninety nine, as 563 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 5: it applies to a platform speaking to five thousand people, 564 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 5: as it applies to my dating relationships, as it applies 565 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 5: to my marriage, what am I here to offer. I'm 566 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 5: not worried about all of the things and all the perceptions. 567 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 5: And if they'll reject me, you're not, or if they'll 568 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 5: swipe left or swipe right. I am showing up with 569 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 5: what I have to give for Thessalonians five eleven reminds 570 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 5: us to encourage and edify one another, like that's the goal. 571 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: And if we could walk into a room. 572 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 5: With that mindset, I think it would drastically change the 573 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 5: way that we do relationships and what we feel on 574 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 5: the inside. 575 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, that's it's true, profound, thank you. 576 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 5: Wow. 577 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sitting here going there are so many different 578 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 2: ways that I could go with my next question, because 579 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: we can be here for two hours, three hours talking 580 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: about this. 581 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we really could be. 582 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 5: There's so many different skills. I think one that would 583 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 5: be important to mention and here's it comes with a 584 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 5: really practical example too, is your communication style. So we 585 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 5: talk about passive communication style, aggressive assertive, and passive aggressive. 586 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 5: So the best way to think of it is if 587 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 5: you were at. 588 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: A restaurant and your meal came out wrong, what would 589 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: you do? It's so basic, such a basic question. I know, 590 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: Shandi's like elbowing Jeff's. 591 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: You guys who were watching on YouTube just saw me 592 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: elbow Jeff, because we have two very different stiles about 593 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: what you do at this. 594 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 5: Point, and I have a feeling it'll trace back to 595 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 5: your communication styles in some way, shape or form. 596 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't translate one hundred percent because. 597 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 5: I might not care about the toppings on my burger 598 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 5: as much as I care about how someone is treating 599 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 5: me and talking about me. And you know, but but 600 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 5: for the most part, you think of it this way. 601 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 5: A passive person is really good at honoring the perspective 602 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 5: of the person in front of them, their needs, their feelings, 603 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 5: their desires, their experience, but not good at honoring their 604 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 5: own needs, feelings, desires, and experiences. So a passive person 605 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 5: might think, oh, the waitress is so busy. 606 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: Look at this restaurant. It is wild in here. 607 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 5: She's probably working so hard. I remember what it was 608 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 5: like to be a waiter, and. 609 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: So, you know what, is not a big deal. 610 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 5: I can handle this, will tweak, I'll eat it, I'll 611 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 5: be fine. 612 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: So that's more of a Jeff right. 613 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 4: That impressions. 614 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 5: And Jeff, you'll have to kind of talk us through 615 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 5: what you would really do. And so so a passive person, 616 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 5: someone who leans passive and is going to focus more 617 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 5: on the other person needs, feelings and experiences and just say, 618 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 5: you know what, I'm fine, I can handle this. Aggressive 619 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 5: person is gonna. 620 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: Say, Shandyazar, hand up, I'm racing my hand. 621 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 5: Confessions, is going to be really focused on their experience, 622 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 5: like this isn't what I ordered, and I would like 623 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 5: you to change this immediately because this is not acceptable. 624 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 5: And we've been already been waiting twenty minutes and and 625 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 5: so I'm super focused on my experience, my needs. But 626 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 5: aggressive people could take it really far. I mean, I 627 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 5: demand a refund, or I need twenty percent off, or 628 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 5: you know whatever it is. It can just come across 629 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 5: really intense because it's focusing on my perspective, feelings and 630 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 5: experiences and not on the other perspective needs, and experiences. 631 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 5: Moving on to passive aggressive. This one's my favorite because 632 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 5: it's the silliest one that people do so commonly. It's 633 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 5: I'm not going to say anything because it's not worth it. 634 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 5: There's too much going on. But when the waitress comes, 635 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 5: I'm going to be rude to her and I'm going 636 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 5: to be short, not make eye contact. I'm not even 637 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 5: going to leave a tip, And when I go home, 638 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 5: I'm leaving a Yelp review, a negative review to let 639 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 5: them know what a bad experience this was. So what's 640 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 5: interesting about passive aggressive is they do not honor their feelings, 641 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 5: their needs, and their experience, but they also do not 642 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 5: honor the feelings, needs, an experience of the person in 643 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 5: front of them. So nobody's being honored, nobody's being benefited 644 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 5: in the passive aggressive communication style. And of course the 645 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 5: ideal is the assertive communication style to be able to 646 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 5: honor what I need and my feelings, but also honor you. 647 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 5: And that says basic as Hey, I know you're working 648 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 5: so hard and I really appreciate it. I noticed that 649 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 5: this wasn't exactly as it should be. When you get 650 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 5: a minute, I would really appreciate it if you could 651 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 5: swap it out for the right meal, something just so simple, 652 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 5: respectful kind. But I'm still honoring both sides of the equation. 653 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 5: And I think we all have a tendency to lean 654 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 5: towards one of the unhealthy ones. 655 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: I am with you, Shanty, I probably lean more aggressive 656 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: and intense. 657 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 5: I always say that I'm passionate, but it can come 658 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 5: across as intense if I'm not careful, and so really 659 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 5: taking inventory, having awareness helps us begin to realize that 660 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 5: I can and should honor the person in front of me, 661 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 5: but I'm also allowed to and should honor my needs 662 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 5: and experiences and feelings. And that small mindset shift in 663 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 5: how we engage with people, whether it's about a burger 664 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 5: or whether it's about a hurt and offense thing that 665 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 5: we're dealing with, whether it's in marriage or whether it's 666 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 5: at a business meeting, I think it can really have 667 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 5: a profound impact on how we engage with people. 668 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 2: That's really good. I could I really could keep talking 669 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 2: to Deborah for hours, which she's got a busy life, 670 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 2: but she has a busy life, and she has another 671 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: podcast coming up, and so can we. 672 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: Schedule another four hour dinner soon? 673 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 2: I know we really do need to. 674 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 5: I know, then we can all see what happens when 675 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 5: our meal comes out wrong. It'll be like a social experiment. 676 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 2: There were I as much as I would love to 677 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: keep going, because we have to wrap it up, I'm 678 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: curious what her answer to our one question thing would be, Yes, 679 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 2: you want to share that with her? 680 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 4: Sure? 681 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 3: So you know, we always want to leave these things 682 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 3: as practical for our listeners as possible, and with the 683 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: full recognition that people forget stuff. So if there was 684 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 3: one takeaway, one thing that you wanted our listeners to 685 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 3: remember about this podcast or about people's skills, something that 686 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 3: they can go. 687 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 4: Ah, okay, I will remember that. Yeah, And it could 688 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 4: be something that you already shared. Yeah, it could be 689 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,959 Speaker 4: something that you hadn't gotten to yet. But what would 690 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 4: that one thing be. 691 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 5: It would be the recipe of relationships, and we alluded 692 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 5: to it at the start. But the reminder that we 693 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 5: can spend all our lives trying to change the ingredients 694 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 5: of the person in front of us. We can nag, 695 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 5: we can critique, we can criticize, we can teach, we 696 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 5: can do all of these things. But if a relationship 697 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 5: is like a recipe, I have a set of ingredients, 698 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 5: and you have a set of ingredients, and I can 699 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 5: spend my whole life trying to change your ingredients, but 700 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 5: I won't be able to do that. But what I 701 00:39:54,640 --> 00:40:00,320 Speaker 5: can do is take ownership, responsibility, authority over my creen. 702 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 5: I can swap out the bad ones, I can refine 703 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 5: the good ones. And when I do that, it changes 704 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 5: the entire recipe. It's not a powerless move or a 705 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 5: helpless move or a victim mindset, because it literally changes 706 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 5: the entire recipe. And so that's where I would say, 707 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 5: let's zoom in there. Let's see what God wants to 708 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 5: teach us with our actions, reactions, responses. Let's see what 709 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 5: he wants to reveal in us that he wants to heal. 710 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 5: And let's see how it impacts our relationships. 711 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 3: Wow, And as you so perfectly framed it at the beginning, 712 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 3: so that we can share Jesus with a world that 713 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 3: needs some hope. So can you share with our listeners 714 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 3: how people can find you? Yeah, some information about your 715 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 3: counseling network. 716 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, all the details are at Deborah Faleda dot com. 717 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 5: And I hang out a lot on Instagram myself, so 718 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 5: you can always connect with me there you can learn 719 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 5: about the podcast or our team of twenty counselors who 720 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 5: are faith forward, clinically trained at Deborah Flata dot com. 721 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 5: It's called the Deborah Flata Counselors Network. All the books 722 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 5: and resources are there, so if you're interested in going 723 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 5: deeper on your journey of healing, we'd love to help you. 724 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: I love that. Well. As we wrap up, Deborah, I 725 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 2: just want to say thanks for being willing to take 726 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 2: the time to come on the show. I want to 727 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 2: encourage everybody to check out people Skills, which for those 728 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 2: of you who are watching on YouTube, it looks like this, 729 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 2: and check out the Dobbrahaleda Counselors Network. You can see 730 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 2: we're going to put all those details in the show notes, 731 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 2: but there are probably those of you who know someone 732 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 2: who needs to hear what has been shared today, and 733 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 2: so I'll encourage you please share today's episode with them 734 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 2: and tag us and tag Deborah on all your social 735 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 2: media channel. 736 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 3: And before we close, sure, I just wanted to say 737 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 3: publicly thank you to Debrah for being a friend. You know, 738 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 3: sometimes you're out there in the world and some folks 739 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 3: don't necessarily understand or care for what you have to say, 740 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 3: and that's happened in all of our lives. Your support, 741 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 3: your kindness, and some of those times has really been 742 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 3: invaluable to both of us. 743 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 4: So thank you. 744 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to I wish you could hear this. 745 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 2: Remember to subscribe to our podcast, and as always, forward 746 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 2: today's audio or video link to a friend, counselor, or 747 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 2: pastor who would be encouraged. I just want to take 748 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 2: a second to thank the team at Life Audio for 749 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 2: their partnership with us on the podcast. If you go 750 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,720 Speaker 2: to Life Audio, you will find dozens of other faith 751 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 2: centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, 752 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,959 Speaker 2: Bible study, parenting, and more.