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Speaker 1: You can't defeat reality. Reality is undefeated. And if you

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Speaker 1: keep arguing with reality and keep trying to deny reality

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Speaker 1: or oppose reality, you're going to smash into reality and

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Speaker 1: it's going to hurt and hurt people around you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm here with my friend, Frank Turek, who is

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Speaker 2: an author, he's an apologist, and he is also a

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Speaker 2: bona fide expert on all things Beatles. Because Frank and

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Speaker 2: I can go down rabbit holes of Beatles trivia that

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Speaker 2: no one cares about. Except us.

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Speaker 1: Except us, that's right.

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Speaker 2: But we're not going to do that right now, though

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Speaker 2: we might come to it a little bit later. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk today about Frank's brand new book,

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Speaker 2: The War on Reality. But before we dive in, Frank,

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Speaker 2: I thought we would reflect a bit on the life

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Speaker 2: and legacy of your friend, our friend, Charlie Kirk. And

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Speaker 2: it's been a year now since he was tragically murdered.

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Speaker 2: I remember the last time I talked to you about it,

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Speaker 2: it was still very fresh because you were there. I mean,

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Speaker 2: not only were you a very close friend of Charlie's,

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Speaker 2: not only were you a mentor to him, in some ways,

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Speaker 2: maybe even a father figure to him, and he was

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Speaker 2: like a son to you, but you were actually near

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Speaker 2: him there on the campus of UVU on the day

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Speaker 2: that Charlie was assassinated. So I just would like you

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Speaker 2: to talk about Well, just share whatever comes to your

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Speaker 2: mind as you've had a year to reflect on this event.

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Speaker 2: And just let me start with this. That had to

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Speaker 2: have been the most traumatic event of your life. I

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Speaker 2: know you were in the military, weren't you?

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Speaker 1: I was in the Navy, yep, for eight years. But

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Speaker 1: I'd never seen anybody shot like that.

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Speaker 2: Right. Very few have. So you were probably still traumatized

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Speaker 2: to some degree the last time I talked to you.

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Speaker 2: how have you dealt with this? Does it keep you

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Speaker 2: up at night? Do you have dreams about it? Um,

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Speaker 2: do you have with the passing of time, has it

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Speaker 2: healed somewhat? Just tell us how you view that day. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: People say you have a nightmares and the answer is no.

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Speaker 1: The nightmare is when I wake up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's really the issue. And, uh, Still, the first person

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Speaker 1: I think of when I wake up every day is Charlie.

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Speaker 1: The last person I think of when I go to

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Speaker 1: sleep is Charlie. And sometimes I wake up normally like

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Speaker 1: four in the morning and it's the first thing I

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Speaker 1: think about. And people say that's PTSD. And let me

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Speaker 1: push back on that a little bit because the D

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Speaker 1: is wrong. It's not a disorder. It's normal. Yeah. If

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Speaker 1: you witness something like that, you should feel that way.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, people say, well, have you gotten counseling

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Speaker 1: for it? And no.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I should, but I don't want

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Speaker 1: to forget Charlie. He was a great man, a great friend,

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Speaker 1: and so much of what he did, I think people

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Speaker 1: should emulate. You know, Paul says, emulate me as I

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Speaker 1: emulate Christ. And Charlie was that guy. Not a perfect guy,

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Speaker 1: none of us are, but many of the things he

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Speaker 1: did were very inspirational. And in his private life, I

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Speaker 1: never saw anything that was a red flag that, oh,

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Speaker 1: this guy isn't who he said he is. He was

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Speaker 1: the real deal. And I think two things got very

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Speaker 1: much more prominent since that day, Greg. One is the

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Speaker 1: existence of evil.

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Speaker 2: It's real.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're kind of sheltered here in America. We

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Speaker 1: rarely see things like that personally, but 50 Charlie Kirks

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Speaker 1: are murdered every day in Nigeria and around the world

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Speaker 1: because they have a bad government. And our government is

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Speaker 1: supposed to protect innocent people from evil. All governments are

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Speaker 1: supposed to do that. That's why Christians have to be

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Speaker 1: involved in government. That's Romans 13.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So evil is real. And the second aspect of this

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Speaker 1: goes right to the heart of what you and I do.

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Speaker 1: And that is the importance of eternity in the gospel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were at that same campus we were

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Speaker 1: just at, at the one-year anniversary. I want to say

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Speaker 1: you were there in January for a crusade.

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Speaker 2: It was November.

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Speaker 1: No, it was November.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: It was November. So a couple of months after. Because

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Speaker 1: there's nothing more important than eternity in the gospel. Because, Greg,

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Speaker 1: if there is no God. and there is no afterlife,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't ultimately matter whether you live like a murderer

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Speaker 1: or a missionary, because we're just going to all go

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Speaker 1: out of existence. So what does it matter ultimately? It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: But since God does exist, Jesus did rise from the dead,

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Speaker 1: there will be a judgment. And if you have Jesus,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get grace. If you don't have Jesus,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get justice. Then eternity is the most

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Speaker 1: important message we can bring. And that's what you've devoted

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Speaker 1: your life to. And That's really very prominent in my

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Speaker 1: mind now. One other thing I want to mention that's

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Speaker 1: very prominent now is something known as the ripple effect,

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Speaker 1: that every event ripples forward to affect trillions of other

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Speaker 1: events and billions of people. I still get emails from

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Speaker 1: people saying, I'm a Christian now because of Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: I got an email from a lady in Sweden. I've

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Speaker 1: been an atheist for 26 years because of Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Christian now. They saw the memorial service. They

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Speaker 1: saw his life. They were broken over it. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many people have told me this. I've never

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Speaker 1: mourned somebody I didn't know as much as I mourned Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Cook.

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Speaker 1: People were distressed for weeks, maybe months over that because

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Speaker 1: of who he was and how much they admired him.

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Speaker 1: So there's always a ripple effect. God can bring good

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Speaker 1: from evil, even good we can't see. And there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of good that's come from that terrible, evil event.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And God can bring good from it ultimately.

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Speaker 2: Well, so would you say his legacy is, well, obviously

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Speaker 2: people have come to Christ since this event, but also...

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Speaker 2: Younger people, maybe people of all ages, inspired to be

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Speaker 2: more like he was, to be bold. And the thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, he so often mischaracterizes. Oh, he was a racist.

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Speaker 2: He was all these things. You know, he was so intolerant.

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Speaker 2: He was so hateful. But if you would just take

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Speaker 2: the time to watch any of those videos, Charlie would

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Speaker 2: sit there while people would say the most evil things. horrible,

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Speaker 2: abusive things. I remember watching a video where a girl

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Speaker 2: said to him, your mother should have had an abortion.

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Speaker 2: And he would smile. Obviously it was very, you know,

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Speaker 2: who wants to hear that? But he was so patient

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Speaker 2: with people. He would actually, when they had asked a question,

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Speaker 2: he'd set the mic down, let them finish their question.

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Speaker 2: And then he would respond. He was actually very, very polite.

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Speaker 2: But tell me what you think his legacy is to

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Speaker 2: people today.

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Speaker 1: I think, uh, In fact, we tell this in chapter

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Speaker 1: one of the book. The book we started to write

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Speaker 1: before Charlie was murdered. And then after he was murdered,

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Speaker 1: we say we're dedicating this book to Charlie. Erica wrote

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Speaker 1: the foreword.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about your co-author quickly, Frank.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Hayes is a lady that's worked in our ministry

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Speaker 1: for several years. She's brilliant. She's very witty. And most

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Speaker 1: of the book is written in her voice because she's

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Speaker 1: so witty and funny. And when you're reading about the

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Speaker 1: war on reality and the dystopia we're all going through,

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Speaker 1: you gotta, you gotta have some, some laughs. And so

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Speaker 1: we've actually made a difficult subject, at least entertaining to

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Speaker 1: a certain extent. So she's, she's quite good at what

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Speaker 1: she does.

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Speaker 2: But you were saying that you're talking about it in

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Speaker 2: your book. Yes.

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Speaker 1: And, uh, when I first saw Eric at the hospital

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Speaker 1: that day, this is about five hours after the murder. Um,

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Speaker 1: And we're all about to leave. And I'm about the

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Speaker 1: only one waiting in the emergency room. The family and

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Speaker 1: the few staff that were there were with Erica, with

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Speaker 1: Charlie's body and the surgeon. And after they were done,

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Speaker 1: they came downstairs and we were all going to get

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Speaker 1: in some cars to head to Salt Lake City for

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Speaker 1: a hotel. And we see one another in the hall

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Speaker 1: and she comes up to me through tears. And of

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Speaker 1: course we embrace. And she just says, he loved you.

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Speaker 1: He was doing what he wanted to do. Please don't

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Speaker 1: let his legacy die. And, um, what I've been trying

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Speaker 1: to do since then is just be a small contributor

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Speaker 1: to continue his legacy. So, That is challenging people with

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Speaker 1: the truth on college campuses and on social media in

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Speaker 1: as direct but kind way as we can. And the

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Speaker 1: reason Charlie and I were acquainted is because I've been

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Speaker 1: going to college campuses for over 20 years and he

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Speaker 1: saw what I was doing and he reached out to me.

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Speaker 1: We explained it in chapter one of the war on reality.

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Speaker 1: And so then we were trying to sharpen one another.

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Speaker 1: How could we get better.

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Speaker 2: At doing this?

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Speaker 1: And so I tell the whole story, but The few

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Speaker 1: days we were with one another before the murder and

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Speaker 1: then what happened at the murder and right after. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Now, you said you've been doing this. for 20 years.

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Speaker 2: How has it changed or has it changed? Like the

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Speaker 2: kinds of questions you get asked, the kinds of issues

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Speaker 2: kids are dealing with. I remember talking to you in

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Speaker 2: another time we had together and you told me that

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Speaker 2: there was a time earlier when atheism was very popular. Yes.

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Speaker 2: But now you say it's different. Tell us about the

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Speaker 2: changes on the university campus.

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Speaker 1: Well, 20 years ago, we were in the heyday of

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Speaker 1: what was called the new atheism. People like Richard Dawkins,

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Speaker 1: Christopher Hitchens. I had two debates with Christopher Hitchens back

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Speaker 1: in the day. They're on our YouTube channel, the Cross-Examine

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. And so sometimes we would get a lot

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Speaker 1: of pushback when we would give arguments for the existence

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Speaker 1: of God, like the creation of the universe. If there's

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Speaker 1: a creation, there's got to be a creator, right? The

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Speaker 1: design of the universe. There's a designer, or there's design,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be a designer. The moral law written

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Speaker 1: on the heart, there's got to be a moral law giver.

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Speaker 1: We don't get as many questions on that anymore. In fact-

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Speaker 1: That's not the main objection to Christianity. People are not

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Speaker 1: as much arguing about the cosmological argument or the teleological argument,

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Speaker 1: the design argument for God. In fact, I would say

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Speaker 1: right now, Greg, in the past several years, the top

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Speaker 1: three objections to Christianity are morality, morality, and morality.

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Speaker 2: Wow, interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's not, is Christianity true? They're more concerned, is Christianity good?

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Speaker 1: By their definition of good, You know, if God doesn't

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Speaker 1: let me sleep with whoever I want to sleep with,

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Speaker 1: then he's not a good God. That kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So we get a lot of questions related to sexuality, LGBTQ.

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Speaker 1: If God, why evil, of course, comes up. Why does

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Speaker 1: God allow evil? Like even the murder of Charlie Kirk or,

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Speaker 1: you know, any kind of evil. So it's much more

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Speaker 1: morality based today than it than it was, say, 20

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's incredible. Well, why do you think that is?

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Speaker 1: Because I think we've become more inward focused and post-modernism,

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Speaker 1: the idea that there is no truth and that you

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Speaker 1: just have your own truth, which of course is self-contradictory.

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Speaker 1: Because when someone says there is no truth, we always

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Speaker 1: ask them, is that true? Is it true that there's

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Speaker 1: no truth? People are uttering truth claims all the time.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we have a section in The War on

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Speaker 1: Reality where The section is titled reality doesn't have pronouns.

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Speaker 1: In other words, Greg, I don't have my gravity and

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Speaker 1: you have your gravity, right? There's not my math or

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Speaker 1: your math. There's not my laws of logic or your

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Speaker 1: laws of logic. There's not my laws of physics and

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Speaker 1: your laws of physics. There's not my laws of morality

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Speaker 1: and your laws of morality. They're objective as well. Murder's

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Speaker 1: wrong for me, just like it is for you. It's

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Speaker 1: not like, okay, murder's okay for you, but not for me. No. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: people may disagree over certain moral questions, but there are

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Speaker 1: essential moral issues that everybody agrees on because they come

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Speaker 1: from God himself. There's nobody out there who doesn't think

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Speaker 1: murder is wrong because it comes from God's nature.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: They may try and redefine who is worthy of of

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Speaker 1: of living like the alleged killer of Charlie Kirk. They

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Speaker 1: wouldn't think it's murder because, you know, Charlie was a

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Speaker 1: fascist and we're supposed to kill fascists. Yeah. Isn't it ironic, Greg,

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Speaker 1: that this guy thought that Charlie was a fascist? Because

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Speaker 1: we all know a typical fascist tactic is to hand

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Speaker 1: the microphone to your opponent and say, please. Make your case.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a conversation. No, the guy that murdered him

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Speaker 1: was a fascist and Hitler knew murder was wrong as well.

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Speaker 1: So what did he do? He redefined the Jews as

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Speaker 1: being subhuman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

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Speaker 1: In order to get his, his SS is Gestapo to

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Speaker 1: murder people. He had to redefine them as being sub people.

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Speaker 1: They're not really people. So you can kill them. So we,

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Speaker 1: we point all this out in the war on reality and,

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Speaker 1: and the war on reality is hurting our children. It's

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Speaker 1: of course hurting adults and, Because you can't defeat reality.

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Speaker 1: Reality is undefeated. And if you keep arguing with reality

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Speaker 1: and keep trying to deny reality or oppose reality, you're

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Speaker 1: going to smash into reality and it's going to hurt

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Speaker 1: and hurt people around you. And so we're trying to

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Speaker 1: bring people back to reality.

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Speaker 2: Has this war on reality found its way into the church?

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Speaker 2: In other words, do we find maybe mediocre, weak, watered-down

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Speaker 2: preaching not addressing these topics in a clear biblical way,

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Speaker 2: and it almost feeds that a little bit?

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Speaker 1: Oh, totally. I know this is going to sound odd,

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Speaker 1: especially since you're like the top evangelist in the world,

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Speaker 1: but I think if we read Ephesians chapter 4, The

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Speaker 1: purpose of the church is not to bring people to Christ.

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Speaker 1: The purpose of the church is to equip the saints

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Speaker 1: to do ministry. Now, of course, can we bring people

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Speaker 1: to Christ in church? Absolutely. But if churches orient themselves

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Speaker 1: completely to the seeker, as Bill Hybels taught us, then

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Speaker 1: we're not making disciples and we don't really make true conversions.

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Speaker 1: Jesus didn't say make believers. He said make disciples.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And, in fact, we point this out in the book

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Speaker 1: as well. Jesus was not only not seeker-sensitive, he was

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Speaker 1: not even disciple-sensitive. He drove off disciples in John 6, right?

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Speaker 1: It's not like he changed his principles when they were offended.

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Speaker 1: He said, does this offend you? And they said, yes.

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Speaker 1: And he said, oh, if you don't like these principles,

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Speaker 1: I have these others. I'll dispense with these. No, no.

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Speaker 1: And then he turns to Peter and he says, you're

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Speaker 1: going to leave too. And Peter, in a moment of clarity, immediately,

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Speaker 1: normally he stuck his foot in his mouth, as you know,

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Speaker 1: he said, no, Lord, you have the words of eternal life.

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Speaker 1: We're not going anywhere. So Jesus was not actually seeking people.

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Speaker 1: He was driving people who weren't committed off because discipleship

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Speaker 1: is a complete commitment. Deny yourself, carry your cross. And

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Speaker 1: so the church has been trying to coax people into

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Speaker 1: the kingdom when, in fact, that's not how you get

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Speaker 1: into the kingdom. You get into the kingdom by saying,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to deny myself. I'm going to follow Jesus

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Speaker 1: at all costs. Charlie was doing that, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Yes. You know, at the end of John 2, it says,

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Speaker 2: many believed on him after they saw the works that

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Speaker 2: he did, but he did not commit himself to them.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's translated, they believed in him, but he didn't

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Speaker 2: believe in them. In other words, he could see that

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Speaker 2: they really didn't want to follow him for the right reason.

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Speaker 2: But then chapter 3 begins. As you know, there were

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Speaker 2: no chapter breaks in the original manuscripts. So then it

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Speaker 2: goes straight into that statement. Many believed in him. He

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Speaker 2: did not believe in them. But there was a certain

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Speaker 2: man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus who came to Jesus

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Speaker 2: by night. So here's the contrast. He didn't commit himself

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Speaker 2: to them. But then there's this guy named Nicodemus that

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Speaker 2: Jesus took a lot of time for because he really

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Speaker 2: did want a relationship with Christ and in the end

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Speaker 2: did become a follower of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: And you know what question we ask on college campuses,

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Speaker 1: and Charlie began asking it too, I've been asking it

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Speaker 1: for many years. The question is this, Greg, especially when

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Speaker 1: someone is a non-believer and they get up to the microphone,

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Speaker 1: I ask them this, If Christianity were true, would you

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Speaker 1: become a Christian?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard you do that.

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Speaker 1: And many people, in fact, as we say sometimes in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: 99 times out of 10, the answer's no, Greg. I mean,

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Speaker 1: most people are looking for God like a criminal's looking

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Speaker 1: for a cop, right? They're on the run. And so

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Speaker 1: asking the question, Completely clears the deck of all objections. Smokescreens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Because then they're just left bare with, if this were true,

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Speaker 1: would I really submit myself to it? And most of

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Speaker 1: the time, the answer's no.

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Speaker 2: Very true.

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Speaker 1: And of course, Jesus talks about the four types of soils.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of soil out there that is just

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Speaker 1: not good soil. They don't want to accept what Jesus says.

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Speaker 1: So what we're trying to do is clear away those

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Speaker 1: objections and let the people learn for themselves that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm really not open to this, am I? That's telling

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Speaker 1: something about me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That I have something more than I want than truth. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, Jesus said, people don't come to the light lest

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Speaker 2: their evil deeds be exposed. Yes. So really, that's the

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Speaker 2: bottom line. It's like, I don't want to change my lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of lifestyles, the whole trans movement. has gained such momentum.

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Speaker 2: Some have described it, and I think accurately so, as

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Speaker 2: a social contagion. Yes. where, you know, platforms like TikTok, others,

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Speaker 2: you know, that this message is being promoted. And suddenly

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Speaker 2: some young person says, you know, I'm a man trapped

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Speaker 2: in a woman's body or a woman trapped in a

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Speaker 2: man's body. And then they find people in the medical community. Now,

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Speaker 2: these people are supposed to be trustworthy, but they're literally

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Speaker 2: encouraging these kids to to get these life-altering surgeries. And

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Speaker 2: then I think what's even worse, or at least equally

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Speaker 2: as bad, we have parents in a form of virtue signaling,

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Speaker 2: I think, encouraging their kids. I mean, you see these

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Speaker 2: Hollywood celebrities. I saw one the other day. She said, oh,

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Speaker 2: two of my kids are trans. Give me a break.

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Speaker 2: What is going on in these homes? Why is this

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Speaker 2: kind of thinking spreading so rapidly?

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Speaker 1: Well, As we document in the book, there's been like

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Speaker 1: a 4,000 to 6,000 percent increase in young girls claiming

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Speaker 1: to be boys over the past decade or so, Greg.

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Speaker 1: And as Abigail Schreier pointed out in her landmark book

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Speaker 1: in 2020 called Irreversible, Damage, how the transgender craze is

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Speaker 1: seducing our daughters. She pointed out this is almost completely

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Speaker 1: driven by social media. It's a social contagion. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: new in the water. There's nothing new biology wise. It's

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Speaker 1: a social contagion. And as you said, some of it

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Speaker 1: is virtue signaling. And when you continue to affirm people

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Speaker 1: that this is a good thing to do, many of

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Speaker 1: them decide to go do it. And now you've got

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Speaker 1: people who are detransitioners like our mutual friend, Chloe Cole,

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Speaker 1: who's saying, I was lied to when I was 15.

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Speaker 1: My breasts were cut off when I was 15. And

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Speaker 1: now she's 20 and she's suing her doctors because she

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Speaker 1: couldn't give informed consent when she was 15. It's madness.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, in the book, in the War

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Speaker 1: and Reality book, we point out how illogical this is,

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Speaker 1: because on one hand, you'll hear people who are going

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Speaker 1: down this road, Greg, or behind this ideology, they will

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Speaker 1: say things like, there's an infinite number of genders and

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Speaker 1: gender is fluid. To which we respond, transgenderism wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: be conceptual. conceptually possible unless the genders were fixed why

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Speaker 1: because if i'm a man and i think i'm a

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Speaker 1: woman i have to have some idea what a man

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Speaker 1: is and some idea what a woman is to know

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Speaker 1: that i have a mismatch between my biology and my

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Speaker 1: psychology right if men didn't exist and women didn't exist

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Speaker 1: there'd be no way to know i had gender dysphoria

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Speaker 1: secondly if i try and take the impossible step of

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Speaker 1: trying to change my gender, which is impossible to do.

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Speaker 1: But if I try it anyway, again, I'd have to

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Speaker 1: have some idea what a man is and some idea

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Speaker 1: what a woman is to try and make the transition.

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Speaker 1: So it's completely self-contradictory. And it goes against, from the

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Speaker 1: Garden of Eden, Where God says, I made male and female.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And it's good, right? Yet people are trying to say

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Speaker 1: that they can actually change that biological reality. It's impossible.

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Speaker 1: You can't change your biology. You can change your mind,

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Speaker 1: but you can't change your biology. So if there's a

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Speaker 1: mismatch between your biology and your mind, your mind needs

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Speaker 1: to change, not your biology.

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Speaker 2: Very good. So let's just say there's a young woman

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Speaker 2: or a young man. who thinks, oh, wow, I'm a

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Speaker 2: woman trapped in a man's body, vice versa. What would

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Speaker 2: you say to them right now?

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Speaker 1: Well, we have a whole list of questions in the book,

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Speaker 1: The War on Reality, to help people. It's very practical.

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Speaker 1: So say your teenager comes to you and says, mom, dad,

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Speaker 1: I'm trans. You don't want to freak out. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to say, what are you, crazy? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not, no, no, no, no, no, no. First thing

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Speaker 1: you want to ask, the first thing you want to

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Speaker 1: say to them is, thank you for telling me, honey.

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Speaker 1: Can I just ask you a few questions? when you

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Speaker 1: say you're trans, what do you mean by that? See

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Speaker 1: if they can explain it. And what happened that made

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Speaker 1: you feel this way? Because Walt Heyer, who was a

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Speaker 1: man who tried to live as a woman for eight

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Speaker 1: years and then got saved and came back to biological reality,

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Speaker 1: he runs a ministry and he has interviewed hundreds, if

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Speaker 1: not thousands of people. And he says this, whenever I

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Speaker 1: ask that question, what happened that made you feel this way? 100%

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Speaker 1: of the time, these young people point to an event.

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Speaker 1: Often it's sexual abuse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Often it's sexual abuse or something they saw on the

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Speaker 1: internet that made them go, oh, wow. Yeah. Also a

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Speaker 1: question like this. When did you start feeling this way?

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Speaker 1: And should you always follow your feelings? And do feelings

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Speaker 1: ever change? Because, you know, honey, last month you were

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Speaker 1: not trans. Now you're saying you are. Do you think

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00:23:31,915 --> 00:23:34,955
Speaker 1: your feelings may change again? And if you look at

431
00:23:34,994 --> 00:23:39,274
Speaker 1: the data, they do change. 96% of people that have this,

432
00:23:39,754 --> 00:23:42,734
Speaker 1: by the time they're 26, they've grown out of it completely.

433
00:23:43,314 --> 00:23:45,874
Speaker 1: About 80% by the time they're 18, they've grown out

434
00:23:45,895 --> 00:23:48,465
Speaker 1: of it completely. And what we say to people is

435
00:23:48,544 --> 00:23:52,524
Speaker 1: it's normal to feel odd when you're going through puberty.

436
00:23:52,564 --> 00:23:56,244
Speaker 1: Because you are making a transition from child to an adult.

437
00:23:56,304 --> 00:23:56,804
Speaker 2: Very true.

438
00:23:57,455 --> 00:23:59,114
Speaker 1: So it's normal to feel odd. So we have to

439
00:23:59,155 --> 00:24:02,215
Speaker 1: tell young people, hey, this is normal. If you're feeling discontent,

440
00:24:02,254 --> 00:24:06,595
Speaker 1: this is completely normal. The solution is not surgery. In fact,

441
00:24:06,615 --> 00:24:09,975
Speaker 1: those that get the surgery, they have an initial honeymoon

442
00:24:09,994 --> 00:24:14,194
Speaker 1: period where they feel better. But the longest study ever done,

443
00:24:14,215 --> 00:24:18,215
Speaker 1: a 10 year longitudinal study where they track the same

444
00:24:18,264 --> 00:24:22,115
Speaker 1: people for 10 years. 10 years after the surgery, there's

445
00:24:22,135 --> 00:24:24,854
Speaker 1: an absolute explosion in suicide for these people.

446
00:24:25,034 --> 00:24:27,675
Speaker 2: See, that's the opposite of what they say. They'll say, no,

447
00:24:27,695 --> 00:24:30,605
Speaker 2: you need to let them get the surgery. Otherwise, they'll

448
00:24:30,615 --> 00:24:33,504
Speaker 2: commit suicide. And you're saying the opposite is the case.

449
00:24:33,804 --> 00:24:37,144
Speaker 1: The opposite. By the way, think about this, too. If

450
00:24:37,185 --> 00:24:43,905
Speaker 1: somebody is threatening suicide because they can't get so-called transitionary

451
00:24:44,804 --> 00:24:47,264
Speaker 1: care of some kind, they call it gender affirming care,

452
00:24:47,304 --> 00:24:50,504
Speaker 1: which is a euphemism, obviously. they have other issues.

453
00:24:51,104 --> 00:24:51,784
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

454
00:24:52,385 --> 00:24:54,604
Speaker 1: They, they have a mental health issue. Anyone who is,

455
00:24:55,225 --> 00:24:57,984
Speaker 1: who is contemplating suicide, they have a mental health issue.

456
00:24:58,324 --> 00:25:01,044
Speaker 1: They have a spiritual issue. They need counseling. They don't

457
00:25:01,064 --> 00:25:04,564
Speaker 1: need a scalpel. You don't fix a mental health problem.

458
00:25:05,225 --> 00:25:09,545
Speaker 1: In most cases with surgery, you fix it with prayer, counseling,

459
00:25:09,844 --> 00:25:14,445
Speaker 1: sometimes medication, but you don't fix it with surgery. And

460
00:25:15,445 --> 00:25:20,345
Speaker 1: the people that, that, especially do this to children. In fact,

461
00:25:21,064 --> 00:25:23,725
Speaker 1: the clinics over in the UK have closed, Greg.

462
00:25:23,905 --> 00:25:24,125
Speaker 2: Yes.

463
00:25:24,145 --> 00:25:27,215
Speaker 1: You know why they've closed? Because the lawsuits are coming

464
00:25:27,294 --> 00:25:29,534
Speaker 1: out now and these people know they're not going to

465
00:25:29,574 --> 00:25:32,374
Speaker 1: be able to pay the fines from the lawsuits. And

466
00:25:32,395 --> 00:25:34,554
Speaker 1: so they're closing down. They're saying, no, this isn't the

467
00:25:34,594 --> 00:25:37,335
Speaker 1: right thing to do. And it's financially going to be draining.

468
00:25:38,875 --> 00:25:40,925
Speaker 1: Although here in the US, there are still some people

469
00:25:40,965 --> 00:25:43,264
Speaker 1: trying to do this They're making a lot of money

470
00:25:43,405 --> 00:25:46,604
Speaker 1: on it, but once the lawsuits begin, it may close

471
00:25:46,645 --> 00:25:49,134
Speaker 1: it down completely, thankfully, especially for children.

472
00:25:49,774 --> 00:25:53,114
Speaker 2: Yes. Now, shifting gears, in your book, The War and Reality,

473
00:25:53,574 --> 00:25:56,754
Speaker 2: you also talk about the spread of communism and socialism,

474
00:25:56,814 --> 00:26:01,415
Speaker 2: very popular on our university campuses, but just— it seems

475
00:26:01,494 --> 00:26:05,855
Speaker 2: in the culture in general, but especially among younger people. Yes.

476
00:26:05,915 --> 00:26:09,894
Speaker 2: Why all of a sudden is there an explosion between, uh,

477
00:26:10,675 --> 00:26:14,494
Speaker 2: an explosion of rather socialism and communism. And tell me,

478
00:26:14,794 --> 00:26:16,955
Speaker 2: is there really a difference between the two?

479
00:26:17,844 --> 00:26:18,394
Speaker 1: Ultimately?

480
00:26:18,524 --> 00:26:18,874
Speaker 2: No.

481
00:26:19,064 --> 00:26:23,205
Speaker 1: I mean, socialism, the government, uh, takes the means of production.

482
00:26:23,504 --> 00:26:26,304
Speaker 1: Whereas communism, there's no government. We just live in a commune.

483
00:26:26,344 --> 00:26:30,405
Speaker 1: There's no place that's been completely communist. Right. Um, But

484
00:26:30,524 --> 00:26:32,385
Speaker 1: here's the question I always ask people. Do you know

485
00:26:32,574 --> 00:26:37,094
Speaker 1: anybody in Florida getting on rickety boats to escape to Cuba?

486
00:26:39,294 --> 00:26:42,554
Speaker 1: Nobody's doing that. Why? Why are there no caravans going

487
00:26:42,594 --> 00:26:45,314
Speaker 1: from the United States to Venezuela? Why are they all

488
00:26:45,354 --> 00:26:49,124
Speaker 1: coming from Venezuela here? Why do communist countries need to

489
00:26:49,185 --> 00:26:52,844
Speaker 1: build walls to keep people in? They don't need walls

490
00:26:52,885 --> 00:26:55,284
Speaker 1: to keep people out. There was nobody trying to get

491
00:26:55,324 --> 00:26:58,764
Speaker 1: from West Berlin to East Berlin before the Berlin Wall fell, right?

492
00:26:59,304 --> 00:27:04,925
Speaker 1: It was always the opposite because communism, socialism, Marxism is

493
00:27:05,365 --> 00:27:13,365
Speaker 1: a ideology that not only doesn't work, it can't produce freedom.

494
00:27:13,705 --> 00:27:17,654
Speaker 1: It can't even produce food, much less freedom, right? And

495
00:27:17,695 --> 00:27:20,114
Speaker 1: if you look at the history of this, In the

496
00:27:20,155 --> 00:27:24,325
Speaker 1: past century, at least 100 million innocent people were murdered

497
00:27:24,385 --> 00:27:29,504
Speaker 1: by their own communist, Marxist, socialist governments. In the past century,

498
00:27:29,544 --> 00:27:32,264
Speaker 1: where you're talking about Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, you know,

499
00:27:32,304 --> 00:27:38,514
Speaker 1: they're all Hitler, socialist, national. I'm trying to remember the

500
00:27:38,574 --> 00:27:44,895
Speaker 1: Nazi acronym, but they're basically socialists. And they're totalitarians. They've

501
00:27:45,064 --> 00:27:48,415
Speaker 1: murdered so many people. in the name of this ideology.

502
00:27:48,975 --> 00:27:52,535
Speaker 1: And of course, it's godless. Marx was godless. It's a godless.

503
00:27:52,594 --> 00:27:57,054
Speaker 1: In fact, this is why in socialism, as opposed to Christianity,

504
00:27:57,074 --> 00:28:03,034
Speaker 1: in socialism, the state is viewed as eternal. Therefore, the

505
00:28:03,135 --> 00:28:09,645
Speaker 1: individual is expendable. In Christianity, the state is temporary. The

506
00:28:09,885 --> 00:28:14,514
Speaker 1: individual is eternal. In fact, the state exists to protect

507
00:28:14,574 --> 00:28:18,414
Speaker 1: the individual, to serve the individual. That's the biblical model.

508
00:28:19,074 --> 00:28:21,195
Speaker 1: And it's completely turned on its head when it comes

509
00:28:21,234 --> 00:28:22,294
Speaker 1: to socialism.

510
00:28:22,675 --> 00:28:28,105
Speaker 2: Yes. And many people, is it called the Democratic Socialist Party? Yes.

511
00:28:28,625 --> 00:28:32,044
Speaker 2: And they, some of their people are getting elected now.

512
00:28:32,465 --> 00:28:34,904
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, this brings us to the

513
00:28:34,965 --> 00:28:40,435
Speaker 2: issue of politics and educating yourself in voting. You know,

514
00:28:40,495 --> 00:28:43,895
Speaker 2: you could take someone like John F. Kennedy, arguably possibly

515
00:28:43,995 --> 00:28:48,334
Speaker 2: even Bill Clinton, and to a certain point of his career,

516
00:28:48,475 --> 00:28:52,305
Speaker 2: even Barack Obama, and they could maybe run as a

517
00:28:52,405 --> 00:28:59,785
Speaker 2: moderate Republican. Certainly Kennedy. He was anti-communism. Clinton wanted to

518
00:28:59,885 --> 00:29:05,005
Speaker 2: shrink government dependency, etc. But today, things have gone so

519
00:29:05,084 --> 00:29:08,425
Speaker 2: far the other way that, like, if you're a Christian

520
00:29:08,465 --> 00:29:12,834
Speaker 2: and you're voting— You have to educate yourself in these issues.

521
00:29:12,895 --> 00:29:15,975
Speaker 2: You can't just say, well, I've always voted for Democrats

522
00:29:16,055 --> 00:29:18,654
Speaker 2: or I've always thought, you know, this is what our

523
00:29:18,695 --> 00:29:21,735
Speaker 2: family has always done. No, we're living in a different

524
00:29:21,915 --> 00:29:24,405
Speaker 2: world today, aren't we? Yes.

525
00:29:24,505 --> 00:29:27,705
Speaker 1: In fact, chapter 15 of the book talks about can

526
00:29:27,745 --> 00:29:29,325
Speaker 1: you legislate reality?

527
00:29:29,505 --> 00:29:29,765
Speaker 2: Yeah.

528
00:29:29,965 --> 00:29:32,584
Speaker 1: It's a play on words. And it talks about the

529
00:29:32,625 --> 00:29:36,045
Speaker 1: top 10 reasons Christians need to be involved politically. First

530
00:29:36,084 --> 00:29:38,934
Speaker 1: of all, all laws legislate morality. The only question is

531
00:29:38,995 --> 00:29:42,694
Speaker 1: whose morality will be legislated. And let me just give

532
00:29:42,735 --> 00:29:45,255
Speaker 1: you two quick reasons, Greg, on this. The book has 10.

533
00:29:45,305 --> 00:29:47,685
Speaker 1: We don't have time for 10. But I hear a

534
00:29:47,705 --> 00:29:49,884
Speaker 1: lot of people saying, look, you know, I don't I

535
00:29:49,905 --> 00:29:52,205
Speaker 1: don't get involved in politics. I just preach the gospel,

536
00:29:52,245 --> 00:29:53,664
Speaker 1: to which I say to them, I guess you don't

537
00:29:53,685 --> 00:29:55,965
Speaker 1: think the gospel is very important. And they go, what

538
00:29:55,985 --> 00:30:00,365
Speaker 1: do you mean? I say, well. Politics affects your ability

539
00:30:00,395 --> 00:30:02,125
Speaker 1: to preach and live the gospel. If you don't think so,

540
00:30:02,185 --> 00:30:03,825
Speaker 1: go to some of the countries I've been to. I've

541
00:30:03,844 --> 00:30:06,865
Speaker 1: been to Iran. There's no First Baptist Church of Tehran.

542
00:30:06,985 --> 00:30:09,884
Speaker 1: I checked, Greg, it's not there. I've been to Saudi Arabia.

543
00:30:09,965 --> 00:30:13,575
Speaker 1: There's no Calvary Chapel of Saudi Arabia. They don't allow it.

544
00:30:13,604 --> 00:30:15,705
Speaker 1: I just got back from Egypt a few months ago.

545
00:30:16,145 --> 00:30:18,665
Speaker 1: You can't have Harvest Church in Egypt without getting a

546
00:30:18,705 --> 00:30:21,944
Speaker 1: political fight. They don't want you there. So if for

547
00:30:22,005 --> 00:30:24,565
Speaker 1: no other reason we have to be engaged politically as

548
00:30:24,604 --> 00:30:26,885
Speaker 1: to protect our ability to preach and live the gospel,

549
00:30:27,025 --> 00:30:30,005
Speaker 1: the second reason is this. We're called to love people,

550
00:30:30,104 --> 00:30:33,114
Speaker 1: and God created government. And in our country, we can

551
00:30:33,175 --> 00:30:36,015
Speaker 1: affect the laws that can protect people from evil. That's

552
00:30:36,055 --> 00:30:39,055
Speaker 1: the purpose of government. Why wouldn't we as Christians take

553
00:30:39,094 --> 00:30:42,575
Speaker 1: that opportunity to protect our neighbor from evil by putting

554
00:30:42,615 --> 00:30:44,715
Speaker 1: laws in place that do so? In fact, here's maybe

555
00:30:44,765 --> 00:30:48,285
Speaker 1: the acid test. I always ask people this question. 165

556
00:30:48,285 --> 00:30:53,485
Speaker 1: years ago, should Christians have gotten involved politically to outlaw slavery?

557
00:30:53,865 --> 00:30:54,125
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

558
00:30:54,665 --> 00:30:56,584
Speaker 1: And everybody says, well, of course. I say, welcome to

559
00:30:56,625 --> 00:30:59,104
Speaker 1: politics then. Did you just see this law that was

560
00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:03,995
Speaker 1: just passed in Massachusetts? And this is probably in California

561
00:31:04,035 --> 00:31:08,315
Speaker 1: already and Oregon and Washington. But in Massachusetts, they just

562
00:31:08,375 --> 00:31:11,844
Speaker 1: declared that a woman can kill her baby up to

563
00:31:11,865 --> 00:31:13,105
Speaker 1: the moment of birth.

564
00:31:13,945 --> 00:31:14,205
Speaker 2: Yes.

565
00:31:14,725 --> 00:31:16,565
Speaker 1: Up to the moment of birth. And there is no

566
00:31:16,645 --> 00:31:20,275
Speaker 1: medical reason to ever do so. In the third trimester,

567
00:31:20,395 --> 00:31:22,775
Speaker 1: if a woman has a problem that's going to hurt

568
00:31:22,834 --> 00:31:25,235
Speaker 1: or kill her, all you got to do is do

569
00:31:25,275 --> 00:31:27,195
Speaker 1: a C-section and take the baby out. You don't need

570
00:31:27,235 --> 00:31:29,815
Speaker 1: a dead baby to save the mother. And yet this

571
00:31:29,895 --> 00:31:32,295
Speaker 1: is what they're doing. Where were the Christians on this?

572
00:31:32,775 --> 00:31:36,315
Speaker 1: Why have Christians allowed this to happen? If the church

573
00:31:36,815 --> 00:31:41,015
Speaker 1: acted as the church and voted biblically, a lot of

574
00:31:41,055 --> 00:31:44,315
Speaker 1: people would be saved from death and a lot of

575
00:31:44,354 --> 00:31:48,025
Speaker 1: people would have laws in place that would protect them

576
00:31:48,065 --> 00:31:51,584
Speaker 1: from evil. But since Christians somehow think only atheists are

577
00:31:51,625 --> 00:31:54,325
Speaker 1: qualified to run the country, we have the kind of

578
00:31:54,385 --> 00:31:55,665
Speaker 1: situation we're in right now.

579
00:31:55,885 --> 00:32:00,465
Speaker 2: Yeah, very true. So we need to register. We need

580
00:32:00,485 --> 00:32:03,624
Speaker 2: to vote. We need to be informed on issues. I

581
00:32:03,665 --> 00:32:06,845
Speaker 2: don't think voting is an option. I would even take

582
00:32:06,865 --> 00:32:09,364
Speaker 2: it a step further. I think for a Christian as

583
00:32:09,465 --> 00:32:13,605
Speaker 2: a citizen, For them to not vote could even be sinful.

584
00:32:13,725 --> 00:32:16,345
Speaker 2: And let me explain why. The Bible says, to him

585
00:32:16,405 --> 00:32:18,634
Speaker 2: that knows to do good and does not do it,

586
00:32:18,665 --> 00:32:21,635
Speaker 2: to him it is sin. And so here you have

587
00:32:21,675 --> 00:32:25,525
Speaker 2: an opportunity, this wonderful nation that we're a part of,

588
00:32:25,555 --> 00:32:29,635
Speaker 2: the United States of America. And we have these privileges.

589
00:32:29,715 --> 00:32:33,515
Speaker 2: We have these responsibilities today. And as Christians, we can't

590
00:32:33,594 --> 00:32:36,275
Speaker 2: sit these things out. Another thing you talk about in

591
00:32:36,315 --> 00:32:39,675
Speaker 2: your book, Frank, is the explosion of AI. I mean,

592
00:32:39,715 --> 00:32:41,904
Speaker 2: at first, I think a lot of people didn't know

593
00:32:41,945 --> 00:32:43,805
Speaker 2: what to make of it. What do you do with it?

594
00:32:44,185 --> 00:32:48,305
Speaker 2: But now it's becoming very mainstream platforms like chat and

595
00:32:48,725 --> 00:32:53,625
Speaker 2: Claude and Grok and many others. And so there are

596
00:32:53,685 --> 00:32:57,315
Speaker 2: some advantages. It can be a tool that you can use.

597
00:32:58,785 --> 00:33:03,025
Speaker 2: but there are disadvantages and there are even dangers. Tell

598
00:33:03,084 --> 00:33:04,854
Speaker 2: us what your thoughts are on AI.

599
00:33:05,315 --> 00:33:07,455
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a whole chapter on it. And I

600
00:33:07,475 --> 00:33:13,055
Speaker 1: think AI overall, first of all, it's amoral, I should say.

601
00:33:13,235 --> 00:33:15,495
Speaker 1: It's not good or bad morally. It's what you do

602
00:33:15,535 --> 00:33:18,255
Speaker 1: with it that could be good or bad morally. I

603
00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:20,975
Speaker 1: use it to summarize things. I use it to do research.

604
00:33:21,094 --> 00:33:23,675
Speaker 1: I think it's great in many cases, but I need

605
00:33:23,715 --> 00:33:26,295
Speaker 1: to point out And we put examples in the book

606
00:33:26,395 --> 00:33:29,735
Speaker 1: on this. AI is a consumer product that will lie

607
00:33:29,795 --> 00:33:31,995
Speaker 1: to you. In fact, let me give you an example

608
00:33:32,015 --> 00:33:36,695
Speaker 1: of this. There's a Muslim in Australia, a woman who

609
00:33:37,035 --> 00:33:38,715
Speaker 1: had been using this chat bot. I think it was

610
00:33:38,755 --> 00:33:42,175
Speaker 1: chat GPT for quite a while. And she wrote in

611
00:33:42,195 --> 00:33:46,785
Speaker 1: a question that said, does the Bible claim that Jesus

612
00:33:46,875 --> 00:33:50,605
Speaker 1: claimed to be God? And she got a confident answer back, no.

613
00:33:51,795 --> 00:33:55,595
Speaker 1: A Christian apologist in Canada using the same chatbot asked

614
00:33:55,675 --> 00:33:59,904
Speaker 1: the same question and got an answer that said yes.

615
00:34:00,445 --> 00:34:00,805
Speaker 2: Why?

616
00:34:01,385 --> 00:34:04,505
Speaker 1: Because the chatbot gets to know what your preferences are

617
00:34:04,604 --> 00:34:07,285
Speaker 1: and wants to please you. So it's going to orient

618
00:34:07,325 --> 00:34:10,384
Speaker 1: its answers to what you want to hear. In fact,

619
00:34:11,565 --> 00:34:14,424
Speaker 1: I did several videos on the Exodus. I've been over

620
00:34:14,445 --> 00:34:17,185
Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and I'm interested in the

621
00:34:17,245 --> 00:34:19,565
Speaker 1: Exodus and the evidence for it. And I had this

622
00:34:19,725 --> 00:34:22,445
Speaker 1: one video I recorded a few years ago. And I

623
00:34:22,485 --> 00:34:25,225
Speaker 1: forgot what I actually said in it. So I put

624
00:34:25,245 --> 00:34:27,285
Speaker 1: it into AI and I said, hey, tell me what

625
00:34:27,405 --> 00:34:30,935
Speaker 1: the main points of this video are. And it came

626
00:34:31,015 --> 00:34:34,895
Speaker 1: back and it said that Frank Turek thinks that the exodus,

627
00:34:35,055 --> 00:34:37,435
Speaker 1: evidence for the exodus is found, at least some evidence

628
00:34:37,455 --> 00:34:39,525
Speaker 1: is found in chariot wheels at the bottom of the

629
00:34:39,545 --> 00:34:40,005
Speaker 1: Red Sea.

630
00:34:40,425 --> 00:34:40,665
Speaker 2: Great.

631
00:34:41,305 --> 00:34:44,425
Speaker 1: I never said that in the video. I don't believe that.

632
00:34:45,165 --> 00:34:47,645
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a good argument. And yet it's

633
00:34:47,745 --> 00:34:49,585
Speaker 1: telling me that. I wrote it back. I said, I'm

634
00:34:49,625 --> 00:34:51,864
Speaker 1: Frank Turek. I never said that. Oh, we're sorry. We'll

635
00:34:51,885 --> 00:34:53,975
Speaker 1: correct it in the future. In other words, this is

636
00:34:54,015 --> 00:34:58,395
Speaker 1: called an hallucination. You've heard of hallucination on AI? up

637
00:34:58,435 --> 00:34:59,475
Speaker 1: greg yes.

638
00:34:59,755 --> 00:35:01,875
Speaker 2: I mean so and they give you all the little

639
00:35:01,935 --> 00:35:05,085
Speaker 2: references but you gotta check those references.

640
00:35:04,785 --> 00:35:08,485
Speaker 1: Oh you do yeah and and uh but i it

641
00:35:08,545 --> 00:35:10,905
Speaker 1: is a great tool but you you know if oh

642
00:35:11,085 --> 00:35:12,805
Speaker 1: by the way did you hear what happened with that

643
00:35:12,865 --> 00:35:17,365
Speaker 1: professor not long ago which professor who in a college

644
00:35:17,585 --> 00:35:21,515
Speaker 1: class assigned his students an essay and he emailed the

645
00:35:21,595 --> 00:35:25,035
Speaker 1: essay to them but a part of the instructions in

646
00:35:25,075 --> 00:35:28,465
Speaker 1: the essay was that he whited out so they couldn't

647
00:35:28,525 --> 00:35:33,175
Speaker 1: see it was somewhere in this essay, put the word

648
00:35:33,255 --> 00:35:37,255
Speaker 1: Madagascar in a way that doesn't make sense. And he

649
00:35:37,355 --> 00:35:41,955
Speaker 1: sent it to all his students. 33, Greg, 33 of

650
00:35:41,995 --> 00:35:46,235
Speaker 1: the 35 students sent back an essay that they had

651
00:35:46,555 --> 00:35:50,395
Speaker 1: obviously plugged into AI. The word Madagascar was in there.

652
00:35:50,435 --> 00:35:51,505
Speaker 1: They didn't even read the essay.

653
00:35:51,545 --> 00:35:52,565
Speaker 2: They just handed it in.

654
00:35:52,985 --> 00:35:54,605
Speaker 1: He failed 33 out of 35 students. What?

655
00:35:57,165 --> 00:35:58,605
Speaker 2: Your sin will find you out.

656
00:35:59,205 --> 00:36:01,445
Speaker 1: It's a war on reality, Greg. They don't want to learn.

657
00:36:01,705 --> 00:36:01,944
Speaker 2: Yeah.

658
00:36:01,985 --> 00:36:04,805
Speaker 1: They just want to get the grade and move on, right?

659
00:36:05,265 --> 00:36:05,575
Speaker 2: Yes.

660
00:36:05,615 --> 00:36:07,055
Speaker 1: Why are you going to school if you're not going

661
00:36:07,075 --> 00:36:07,415
Speaker 1: to learn?

662
00:36:07,555 --> 00:36:09,875
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. And the problem is many

663
00:36:09,915 --> 00:36:12,615
Speaker 2: are going to school and they're learning, but they're learning

664
00:36:12,655 --> 00:36:15,535
Speaker 2: the wrong things. It's almost like some of our universities

665
00:36:15,595 --> 00:36:20,705
Speaker 2: have literally become indoctrination centers. Well, Greg.

666
00:36:21,295 --> 00:36:23,055
Speaker 1: That goes back to what you said earlier. You asked, like,

667
00:36:23,115 --> 00:36:26,235
Speaker 1: why is communism and socialism making a comeback? You just

668
00:36:26,275 --> 00:36:30,035
Speaker 1: answered the question. They're being taught this stuff. They're being

669
00:36:30,055 --> 00:36:33,415
Speaker 1: taught this stuff by academics who can say anything they

670
00:36:33,475 --> 00:36:37,075
Speaker 1: want and never have their theories tested in the real

671
00:36:37,125 --> 00:36:40,665
Speaker 1: world because they're just academics. But you go over to

672
00:36:40,705 --> 00:36:43,685
Speaker 1: the engineering department, right, and you say you can build

673
00:36:43,765 --> 00:36:46,585
Speaker 1: a bridge any way you want. That's not true. Right.

674
00:36:47,045 --> 00:36:47,404
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.

675
00:36:48,185 --> 00:36:50,605
Speaker 1: There are certain there's reality that you need to take

676
00:36:50,665 --> 00:36:54,505
Speaker 1: into account. But an academic in the social sciences, you know,

677
00:36:54,545 --> 00:36:56,995
Speaker 1: can just spout off anything they want and never be

678
00:36:57,035 --> 00:36:59,795
Speaker 1: tested on it. Oh, it sounds like a good idea

679
00:37:00,135 --> 00:37:02,654
Speaker 1: that everybody gets the same thing, but it doesn't work

680
00:37:02,715 --> 00:37:05,015
Speaker 1: in real life because you always have the free rider problem.

681
00:37:05,535 --> 00:37:08,275
Speaker 1: This is what William Bradford learned when the pilgrims.

682
00:37:07,895 --> 00:37:08,654
Speaker 2: Came over, right?

683
00:37:08,975 --> 00:37:10,975
Speaker 1: Hey, we're just going to have this big land that

684
00:37:10,995 --> 00:37:13,015
Speaker 1: we're all going to farm together and just take what

685
00:37:13,035 --> 00:37:16,595
Speaker 1: you need. And they basically starved in year one. And

686
00:37:16,635 --> 00:37:18,955
Speaker 1: then he said, okay, this isn't working. Now we're going

687
00:37:18,975 --> 00:37:22,635
Speaker 1: to assign land to individual families and whatever you grow yourself,

688
00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:24,535
Speaker 1: you get to keep. They had more food that they

689
00:37:24,555 --> 00:37:28,094
Speaker 1: needed than they knew what to do with. Because socialism

690
00:37:28,145 --> 00:37:31,585
Speaker 1: doesn't work. There's a free rider problem. It misunderstands human nature.

691
00:37:32,355 --> 00:37:35,875
Speaker 2: You know, another thing that's exploding on our university campuses,

692
00:37:36,315 --> 00:37:41,594
Speaker 2: in addition to socialism, communism, is anti-Semitism. And, you know,

693
00:37:41,675 --> 00:37:44,344
Speaker 2: you would have thought that after World War II, what

694
00:37:44,385 --> 00:37:47,705
Speaker 2: happened in the Holocaust, that, you know, not that that

695
00:37:47,745 --> 00:37:49,565
Speaker 2: would be the end of it, but you would never

696
00:37:49,785 --> 00:37:53,685
Speaker 2: see it reemerge again. But yet, here everywhere you turn,

697
00:37:53,965 --> 00:37:57,915
Speaker 2: you know, and I think people sort of conflate Israel, like, Well,

698
00:37:57,995 --> 00:38:01,515
Speaker 2: you see, Israel is committing genocide in the Middle East

699
00:38:01,575 --> 00:38:06,215
Speaker 2: against the people of Gaza. And therefore, this is a

700
00:38:06,275 --> 00:38:10,594
Speaker 2: reflection of all Jewish people. Or, you know, you can

701
00:38:10,655 --> 00:38:14,075
Speaker 2: criticize Israel, but not be anti-Semitic. But you see it

702
00:38:14,095 --> 00:38:16,635
Speaker 2: spilling over. And the really weird thing to me, Frank,

703
00:38:17,135 --> 00:38:22,785
Speaker 2: is the explosions seem to happen right after October 7th.

704
00:38:23,145 --> 00:38:24,825
Speaker 2: I mean, you would have thought there would have been

705
00:38:24,845 --> 00:38:30,145
Speaker 2: an outpouring of public sympathy globally, but instead the opposite

706
00:38:30,205 --> 00:38:34,205
Speaker 2: started happening. To me, this has to have a spiritual origin.

707
00:38:34,245 --> 00:38:35,015
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?

708
00:38:35,245 --> 00:38:39,015
Speaker 1: Yes, totally. How do you explain how Jews, there's only

709
00:38:39,095 --> 00:38:41,915
Speaker 1: like 16 million Jews in the whole world. Yeah. How

710
00:38:41,995 --> 00:38:45,815
Speaker 1: are they continually the ones that are always persecuted?

711
00:38:45,915 --> 00:38:46,175
Speaker 2: Yeah.

712
00:38:46,435 --> 00:38:47,675
Speaker 1: I mean, throughout time, Greg.

713
00:38:47,815 --> 00:38:48,055
Speaker 2: Yes.

714
00:38:48,195 --> 00:38:48,895
Speaker 1: All the way back.

715
00:38:49,385 --> 00:38:49,765
Speaker 2: Why?

716
00:38:50,005 --> 00:38:52,285
Speaker 1: It's got to be demonic. But I get questions all

717
00:38:52,325 --> 00:38:55,045
Speaker 1: the time on college campuses about Israel and Hamas. And

718
00:38:55,105 --> 00:38:58,195
Speaker 1: my first question back is always this, Greg, have you

719
00:38:58,255 --> 00:39:02,575
Speaker 1: read the Hamas charter? I've only had one person say yes.

720
00:39:03,375 --> 00:39:07,155
Speaker 1: When they say no, I say, consider yourself unqualified to

721
00:39:07,195 --> 00:39:10,245
Speaker 1: have an informed opinion, because if you hadn't read the

722
00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:12,765
Speaker 1: Hamas charter or if you had read the Hamas charter,

723
00:39:13,285 --> 00:39:15,085
Speaker 1: you would see that the people who really want to

724
00:39:15,105 --> 00:39:17,425
Speaker 1: commit genocide and have done it and are doing it

725
00:39:17,725 --> 00:39:20,455
Speaker 1: is Hamas because they have it in their own statement,

726
00:39:20,475 --> 00:39:23,715
Speaker 1: their own founding document. And so we quoted in chapter

727
00:39:23,955 --> 00:39:27,595
Speaker 1: one of the war on reality because the day before

728
00:39:27,695 --> 00:39:32,404
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was murdered, Greg, we had a meeting that

729
00:39:32,585 --> 00:39:36,995
Speaker 1: Charlie called. It was me, him, Mikey McCoy, Blake Neff,

730
00:39:37,035 --> 00:39:41,435
Speaker 1: people on his staff, two people in Israel, and one

731
00:39:41,855 --> 00:39:44,715
Speaker 1: Jewish person who lives in the United States but was

732
00:39:44,835 --> 00:39:47,735
Speaker 1: on the Zoom call. And the entire call was about,

733
00:39:48,175 --> 00:39:51,245
Speaker 1: tell us your perspective as to what's going on. Tell

734
00:39:51,285 --> 00:39:54,285
Speaker 1: us how we can better answer questions related to this conflict.

735
00:39:54,715 --> 00:39:56,955
Speaker 1: In other words, Charlie was not giving up on Israel.

736
00:39:57,015 --> 00:40:02,105
Speaker 1: He was doing his homework. And Charlie was upset that

737
00:40:02,205 --> 00:40:05,705
Speaker 1: some people were telling him, if you don't agree with

738
00:40:05,765 --> 00:40:08,805
Speaker 1: everything the Israeli government does, you're not supporting Israel. You're

739
00:40:08,845 --> 00:40:11,095
Speaker 1: not blessing Israel. And I said to him, Charlie, blessing

740
00:40:11,515 --> 00:40:14,295
Speaker 1: Israel doesn't mean agreeing with them on everything. No more

741
00:40:14,335 --> 00:40:16,795
Speaker 1: than blessing your own child means you agree with everything

742
00:40:16,815 --> 00:40:18,875
Speaker 1: your child does. If you want to bless your child...

743
00:40:18,935 --> 00:40:21,885
Speaker 1: You need to stop him when he's doing something wrong.

744
00:40:22,025 --> 00:40:22,245
Speaker 2: Right.

745
00:40:22,665 --> 00:40:24,585
Speaker 1: So Charlie said, well, that's a relief. Yeah, I don't

746
00:40:24,725 --> 00:40:27,045
Speaker 1: need to. I don't need to agree with everything. I

747
00:40:27,085 --> 00:40:29,425
Speaker 1: don't agree with everything the Israeli government does. I mean,

748
00:40:29,445 --> 00:40:32,385
Speaker 1: they've got same sex marriage over there, unfettered abortion. You know,

749
00:40:32,405 --> 00:40:33,904
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things they do wrong.

750
00:40:34,185 --> 00:40:34,645
Speaker 2: That's right.

751
00:40:34,725 --> 00:40:37,205
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the good guys and bad

752
00:40:37,265 --> 00:40:44,845
Speaker 1: guys in a conflict. A democracy that allows even Jews, Arabs,

753
00:40:44,985 --> 00:40:50,065
Speaker 1: Christians to be in their Knesset. There's a Muslim guy

754
00:40:50,085 --> 00:40:54,625
Speaker 1: last I checked on the Supreme Court. a democracy that's

755
00:40:54,665 --> 00:40:57,795
Speaker 1: trying to protect innocent people from evil. And then you

756
00:40:57,815 --> 00:41:02,995
Speaker 1: look at another organization which attacked Israel and murdered babies,

757
00:41:03,115 --> 00:41:05,995
Speaker 1: raped babies, raped women and bragged about it. And they

758
00:41:06,035 --> 00:41:08,215
Speaker 1: have in their documents, this is what they want to do.

759
00:41:08,455 --> 00:41:10,775
Speaker 1: You know, the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

760
00:41:11,975 --> 00:41:15,445
Speaker 1: That's that's that's really a song about genocide that we

761
00:41:15,465 --> 00:41:17,245
Speaker 1: need to kill all the Jews because they don't want

762
00:41:17,285 --> 00:41:19,465
Speaker 1: a two state solution. They want a one state solution.

763
00:41:20,005 --> 00:41:22,904
Speaker 1: Even Trump gets this wrong. He keeps talking about there's

764
00:41:22,965 --> 00:41:25,944
Speaker 1: no two state. The two state solution is Jordan. Yeah,

765
00:41:26,085 --> 00:41:28,944
Speaker 1: but the but the people in Jordan don't want. those

766
00:41:29,025 --> 00:41:31,705
Speaker 1: people in their country because many of them are jihadists.

767
00:41:32,505 --> 00:41:36,605
Speaker 1: So the facts don't bear out this nonsense that Israel's

768
00:41:36,645 --> 00:41:40,025
Speaker 1: committing genocide. And if they are, we ought to oppose it.

769
00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:43,965
Speaker 1: But I don't see, I think if Israel wanted to

770
00:41:44,025 --> 00:41:47,105
Speaker 1: kill everybody in Gaza, they could have done so five

771
00:41:47,145 --> 00:41:53,665
Speaker 1: times over already. In fact, our mutual friend, Gary Hamrick

772
00:41:53,725 --> 00:41:55,785
Speaker 1: said this not long ago. He said, if you think

773
00:41:56,465 --> 00:41:59,805
Speaker 1: The suffering in Gaza is caused by Israel. You're not

774
00:41:59,825 --> 00:42:03,005
Speaker 1: paying attention. The suffering in Gaza is caused by Hamas.

775
00:42:03,065 --> 00:42:03,585
Speaker 2: That's right.

776
00:42:03,825 --> 00:42:09,265
Speaker 1: They rule Gaza and they've done so since 2005. Israel

777
00:42:09,325 --> 00:42:12,115
Speaker 1: gave it to them. And all they've done is taken

778
00:42:12,195 --> 00:42:14,635
Speaker 1: all the aid that's gone in there to create tunnels,

779
00:42:14,715 --> 00:42:19,485
Speaker 1: to create acts of terrorism. That place could be Club

780
00:42:19,665 --> 00:42:22,625
Speaker 1: Med over there, Greg, if they had the right worldview.

781
00:42:23,065 --> 00:42:26,255
Speaker 1: What a beautiful piece of property, beautiful location. Instead, all

782
00:42:26,275 --> 00:42:29,395
Speaker 1: they're doing is warring on the Jews and the Christians. Wow.

783
00:42:30,095 --> 00:42:33,475
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me ask you some personal questions now, Frank.

784
00:42:33,775 --> 00:42:37,845
Speaker 2: If you could have dinner with anyone from history, maybe

785
00:42:37,975 --> 00:42:40,965
Speaker 2: let's say three people, but Jesus is not on the

786
00:42:40,985 --> 00:42:43,005
Speaker 2: list because we don't want to have dinner with Jesus,

787
00:42:43,105 --> 00:42:46,545
Speaker 2: but I saw a video the other day where someone said,

788
00:42:46,965 --> 00:42:50,085
Speaker 2: if you could receive a million dollars or have dinner

789
00:42:50,105 --> 00:42:52,685
Speaker 2: with Jesus, what would you choose? Most people chose a

790
00:42:52,705 --> 00:42:53,205
Speaker 2: million dollars.

791
00:42:53,305 --> 00:42:56,075
Speaker 1: Oh, no, Jesus. Are you kidding me?

792
00:42:56,095 --> 00:42:59,975
Speaker 2: Okay, but now let's exclude Jesus from this meal, unfortunately.

793
00:43:00,315 --> 00:43:03,455
Speaker 2: And three people from history, maybe they're alive, maybe they

794
00:43:03,535 --> 00:43:06,235
Speaker 2: once were alive, but you'd like to just hang out

795
00:43:06,275 --> 00:43:07,755
Speaker 2: with these people. Who would they be?

796
00:43:08,715 --> 00:43:10,115
Speaker 1: Paul, Peter, and John.

797
00:43:10,735 --> 00:43:12,635
Speaker 2: You mean Paul from the Beatles?

798
00:43:12,655 --> 00:43:18,155
Speaker 1: Yes. Nice try, buddy. Nice try.

799
00:43:18,355 --> 00:43:18,675
Speaker 2: All right.

800
00:43:18,735 --> 00:43:23,875
Speaker 1: Inside joke here. No, I'd go back to the apostles, certainly.

801
00:43:25,175 --> 00:43:27,935
Speaker 1: Or Luke is fine. Matthew's fine. You know, any of

802
00:43:27,955 --> 00:43:29,415
Speaker 1: those people. But certainly Paul.

803
00:43:29,755 --> 00:43:33,335
Speaker 2: How about you? Oh, well, those guys would be great.

804
00:43:34,975 --> 00:43:38,295
Speaker 2: If I were going to pick non-biblical characters, I would

805
00:43:38,415 --> 00:43:42,115
Speaker 2: maybe pick, well, I'd pick C.H. Spurgeon. I've always admired him.

806
00:43:42,515 --> 00:43:45,815
Speaker 2: His writing, his teaching. I might pick C.S. Lewis.

807
00:43:45,895 --> 00:43:47,755
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was just at C.S.

808
00:43:47,795 --> 00:43:49,975
Speaker 1: Lewis's house a couple weeks ago. It's amazing.

809
00:43:50,235 --> 00:43:52,245
Speaker 2: It's not a big house, but yeah. Yeah, I've been

810
00:43:52,265 --> 00:43:55,145
Speaker 2: to that house. It's amazing, isn't it? It's amazing to

811
00:43:55,185 --> 00:43:57,805
Speaker 2: walk in that house and think this is where C.S.

812
00:43:57,845 --> 00:44:00,645
Speaker 2: Lewis lived. I mean, he was such an incredible author.

813
00:44:00,865 --> 00:44:04,845
Speaker 2: And I might pick an American figure like George Washington

814
00:44:04,925 --> 00:44:10,215
Speaker 2: or Abraham Lincoln or Ronald Reagan even. Okay, so what is...

815
00:44:12,505 --> 00:44:16,485
Speaker 2: A Bible verse you find yourself returning to again and again,

816
00:44:16,585 --> 00:44:20,925
Speaker 2: maybe when you're worried or stressed. Do you get stressed, Frank?

817
00:44:21,765 --> 00:44:24,325
Speaker 1: Oh, of course. Do you have verses.

818
00:44:23,865 --> 00:44:26,045
Speaker 2: You go to at times like that?

819
00:44:27,285 --> 00:44:32,935
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably 2 Corinthians 4, verses 16 to 18. Our

820
00:44:32,975 --> 00:44:35,435
Speaker 1: light and momentary afflictions are achieving for us a greater

821
00:44:35,455 --> 00:44:39,265
Speaker 1: weight of glory that far outweighs them all. So we

822
00:44:39,305 --> 00:44:41,055
Speaker 1: fix our eyes not on what is seen, for what

823
00:44:41,105 --> 00:44:42,935
Speaker 1: is seen is temporary. We fix our eyes on what

824
00:44:42,975 --> 00:44:46,415
Speaker 1: is unseen, for what is unseen is eternal. And that

825
00:44:46,895 --> 00:44:50,655
Speaker 1: passage on pain and suffering shows us that the more

826
00:44:50,695 --> 00:44:53,075
Speaker 1: pain and suffering we go through, the greater we're enhancing

827
00:44:53,115 --> 00:44:56,325
Speaker 1: our capacity to enjoy God, not only now, but in eternity.

828
00:44:56,985 --> 00:44:59,344
Speaker 1: And we know that there's going to be evil. We

829
00:44:59,385 --> 00:45:01,185
Speaker 1: know we're going to be persecuted. We know there's going

830
00:45:01,205 --> 00:45:03,425
Speaker 1: to be suffering, but look at it as a stepping

831
00:45:03,465 --> 00:45:07,405
Speaker 1: stone to ultimately enjoy Jesus and eternity forever.

832
00:45:07,945 --> 00:45:10,555
Speaker 2: Sorry, Troy, I was thinking the other day about things

833
00:45:10,595 --> 00:45:12,835
Speaker 2: we can only do in heaven and things we can

834
00:45:12,915 --> 00:45:16,815
Speaker 2: only do on earth. You know, there are certain things

835
00:45:16,855 --> 00:45:19,645
Speaker 2: that in heaven we can only do there. Only in

836
00:45:19,705 --> 00:45:22,585
Speaker 2: heaven can we be reunited with loved ones that have

837
00:45:22,625 --> 00:45:26,185
Speaker 2: preceded us. Only in heaven can we be in the

838
00:45:26,265 --> 00:45:30,225
Speaker 2: presence of Jesus Christ. And the list goes on. But

839
00:45:30,405 --> 00:45:33,825
Speaker 2: only on earth can we share the gospel with people.

840
00:45:33,845 --> 00:45:35,665
Speaker 2: There'll be no evangelism in heaven.

841
00:45:35,825 --> 00:45:36,165
Speaker 1: That's right.

842
00:45:36,185 --> 00:45:39,525
Speaker 2: But another one that I found interesting is only on

843
00:45:39,585 --> 00:45:42,745
Speaker 2: earth can we suffer And we think, yeah, good. I'm

844
00:45:42,785 --> 00:45:46,775
Speaker 2: glad that's only on earth. But God uses suffering in

845
00:45:46,835 --> 00:45:49,635
Speaker 2: our life to draw us closer to himself. You remember

846
00:45:49,695 --> 00:45:52,175
Speaker 2: Paul's thorn in the flesh? We don't know what it was.

847
00:45:52,695 --> 00:45:54,654
Speaker 2: Three times he asked the Lord to take it away,

848
00:45:54,715 --> 00:45:57,114
Speaker 2: and the Lord said, my grace is sufficient for you.

849
00:45:57,455 --> 00:46:00,935
Speaker 2: And then Paul said, most gladly, therefore, will I rejoice

850
00:46:01,015 --> 00:46:03,595
Speaker 2: in these things, because when I am weak, then I

851
00:46:03,695 --> 00:46:06,015
Speaker 2: am strong. You know, so go ahead.

852
00:46:06,075 --> 00:46:08,295
Speaker 1: I want to ask you your verse. What would you

853
00:46:08,355 --> 00:46:08,835
Speaker 1: say to that?

854
00:46:09,775 --> 00:46:12,745
Speaker 2: Uh, go-to verse. Oh, I have so many. I have

855
00:46:12,785 --> 00:46:16,665
Speaker 2: to say, I go to Philippians so often. I love

856
00:46:16,895 --> 00:46:20,675
Speaker 2: every word of this verse, but I've forgotten it. No,

857
00:46:20,715 --> 00:46:24,935
Speaker 2: I remember it. Okay. Is it chapter four? No, yes.

858
00:46:25,055 --> 00:46:29,275
Speaker 2: Don't worry about anything. Pray about everything. And the peace

859
00:46:29,335 --> 00:46:32,995
Speaker 2: of God that passes all human understanding will guard your

860
00:46:33,055 --> 00:46:35,555
Speaker 2: heart and mind in Christ Jesus. That to me is

861
00:46:35,595 --> 00:46:39,765
Speaker 2: just such a beautiful verse. Like, Don't do this, do

862
00:46:39,805 --> 00:46:43,865
Speaker 2: this instead. Don't worry, but instead pray. You know, another

863
00:46:43,965 --> 00:46:48,635
Speaker 2: one that I do return to is good old Romans 8.28,

864
00:46:48,635 --> 00:46:50,475
Speaker 2: you know? Oh, yeah, of course. And, you know, as

865
00:46:50,495 --> 00:46:54,055
Speaker 2: you know, right after 8.28 is 8.29, which really gives

866
00:46:54,155 --> 00:46:56,955
Speaker 2: us the big picture. Romans 8.28, for we know that

867
00:46:57,335 --> 00:46:59,755
Speaker 2: all things work together for good to those that love God,

868
00:46:59,815 --> 00:47:03,665
Speaker 2: another called according to his purpose. For whom he foreknew,

869
00:47:03,725 --> 00:47:07,445
Speaker 2: verse 29, he also did predestine to be conformed into

870
00:47:07,505 --> 00:47:09,185
Speaker 2: the image of his own dear son.

871
00:47:09,205 --> 00:47:10,265
Speaker 1: A key phrase.

872
00:47:10,405 --> 00:47:14,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we sometimes misinterpret Romans 8, 28 to say, hey,

873
00:47:14,685 --> 00:47:17,325
Speaker 2: whatever bad thing has happened, God will make it good.

874
00:47:17,965 --> 00:47:20,635
Speaker 2: It actually doesn't say that. He'll cause all things to

875
00:47:20,715 --> 00:47:23,975
Speaker 2: work together for good. Like the death of Charlie Kirk

876
00:47:24,735 --> 00:47:31,455
Speaker 2: is horrible, awful. tragic event. Okay. But despite that horrible, awful,

877
00:47:31,635 --> 00:47:34,035
Speaker 2: tragic event, good has come.

878
00:47:34,495 --> 00:47:35,835
Speaker 1: That's the ripple effect.

879
00:47:35,995 --> 00:47:39,645
Speaker 2: That's a ripple effect. But ultimately, we go through these

880
00:47:39,725 --> 00:47:42,805
Speaker 2: things to make us more like Jesus because heaven is

881
00:47:42,845 --> 00:47:49,005
Speaker 2: a prepared place for prepared people. You know, God's preparing us. Okay.

882
00:47:49,045 --> 00:47:52,595
Speaker 2: If you could trade places with one person for one day,

883
00:47:53,435 --> 00:47:53,975
Speaker 2: who would it be?

884
00:47:55,275 --> 00:47:56,855
Speaker 1: Probably Peter.

885
00:47:59,305 --> 00:48:00,805
Speaker 2: Like right before he got martyred?

886
00:48:01,985 --> 00:48:02,685
Speaker 1: No, before that.

887
00:48:04,565 --> 00:48:10,725
Speaker 2: That's a very dark joke. I should probably edit that out.

888
00:48:10,805 --> 00:48:12,845
Speaker 2: I want to treat peace as Peter. Not at this

889
00:48:12,865 --> 00:48:16,005
Speaker 2: point of his life. Earlier, earlier. Like when he walked

890
00:48:16,065 --> 00:48:17,165
Speaker 2: on the water with Jesus.

891
00:48:17,385 --> 00:48:20,185
Speaker 1: I want to see Jesus come out of the tomb. Oh, wow.

892
00:48:20,205 --> 00:48:20,444
Speaker 2: Okay.

893
00:48:21,085 --> 00:48:24,145
Speaker 1: That's what I want to see. You know, see him

894
00:48:24,265 --> 00:48:28,895
Speaker 1: after he's been brutalized. And see him walk out of

895
00:48:28,935 --> 00:48:29,355
Speaker 1: that tomb.

896
00:48:29,935 --> 00:48:33,625
Speaker 2: Wow. That's a good answer. Mine was far less spiritual.

897
00:48:33,645 --> 00:48:38,285
Speaker 1: You wanted to be at Chase Stadium in 1964 when

898
00:48:38,305 --> 00:48:39,425
Speaker 1: the Beatles played there, right?

899
00:48:39,905 --> 00:48:41,825
Speaker 2: I was there. It was rubbish. No, I'm kidding. I

900
00:48:41,865 --> 00:48:45,364
Speaker 2: wasn't there. No, I'd like to be the president for

901
00:48:45,485 --> 00:48:48,445
Speaker 2: one day. Not because I would like to become the president.

902
00:48:48,945 --> 00:48:51,785
Speaker 2: I would just like to see what he has to

903
00:48:51,865 --> 00:48:54,904
Speaker 2: deal with on a daily basis. Oh, yeah. You know,

904
00:48:54,945 --> 00:49:00,695
Speaker 2: just an incredible... thing to experience. Okay, I've asked this

905
00:49:00,755 --> 00:49:03,055
Speaker 2: of other people. I'll give you a couple of their answers.

906
00:49:03,655 --> 00:49:06,175
Speaker 2: And the question is, if you could preach one last sermon,

907
00:49:06,235 --> 00:49:09,895
Speaker 2: what would your text be? And what would your topic be?

908
00:49:10,115 --> 00:49:13,515
Speaker 2: I asked this of Pastor Chuck Smith. He said he

909
00:49:13,555 --> 00:49:17,105
Speaker 2: would speak on John 3.16. I recently asked it of

910
00:49:17,185 --> 00:49:20,185
Speaker 2: Pastor Chuck Swindoll, who I had the privilege of interviewing.

911
00:49:20,585 --> 00:49:23,605
Speaker 2: He's 91 now. And he said he would speak on

912
00:49:23,645 --> 00:49:26,445
Speaker 2: the grace of God. Then he said, first, he said,

913
00:49:26,595 --> 00:49:29,515
Speaker 2: I've never been asked that question before. And then he

914
00:49:29,535 --> 00:49:31,495
Speaker 2: started thinking about it. And he says, I would speak

915
00:49:31,555 --> 00:49:34,255
Speaker 2: on the grace of God. Then he starts listing the

916
00:49:34,655 --> 00:49:37,355
Speaker 2: verses he would build it on. Then he starts actually

917
00:49:37,395 --> 00:49:40,175
Speaker 2: building the sermon right on the spot. I think I

918
00:49:40,215 --> 00:49:43,335
Speaker 2: would use this acronym. And it was very cool to see. But,

919
00:49:43,715 --> 00:49:47,375
Speaker 2: you know, that's a message that he's carried on through life. So, Frank,

920
00:49:47,795 --> 00:49:51,195
Speaker 2: if you had one last sermon to give, what would

921
00:49:51,235 --> 00:49:57,335
Speaker 2: the topic be? And what would the text be? Wow. Um.

922
00:49:58,535 --> 00:50:03,075
Speaker 1: You could really riff off the Proverbs or is it

923
00:50:03,095 --> 00:50:05,955
Speaker 1: Psalm 14? The fool in his heart says there is

924
00:50:05,995 --> 00:50:09,935
Speaker 1: no God. And I would probably go into the evidence

925
00:50:09,975 --> 00:50:12,315
Speaker 1: that God does exist and Jesus did rise from the

926
00:50:12,375 --> 00:50:15,654
Speaker 1: dead and we all need to make a choice. And

927
00:50:16,155 --> 00:50:17,575
Speaker 1: you're going to be dead a lot longer than you're

928
00:50:17,595 --> 00:50:21,895
Speaker 1: going to be alive. Yeah, that's true. So what are

929
00:50:21,915 --> 00:50:26,185
Speaker 1: you doing with eternity? Also, I know this is going

930
00:50:26,205 --> 00:50:29,965
Speaker 1: to sound crazy, but if I had one sort of sermon,

931
00:50:30,905 --> 00:50:34,705
Speaker 1: I would give a 30,000 foot overview of the book

932
00:50:34,745 --> 00:50:43,365
Speaker 1: of Romans and say, we're all condemned, point one. Justification

933
00:50:43,425 --> 00:50:49,884
Speaker 1: is available, point two. Sanctification following justification is what we're

934
00:50:49,905 --> 00:50:55,145
Speaker 1: doing here now. And glorification comes later. And there's only

935
00:50:55,325 --> 00:50:58,015
Speaker 1: two things you can get. You can either be glorified

936
00:50:58,075 --> 00:50:58,735
Speaker 1: or horrified.

937
00:50:59,015 --> 00:51:02,255
Speaker 2: Well, that's it. That's a good statement.

938
00:51:02,275 --> 00:51:04,475
Speaker 1: You're either going to get grace or you're going to

939
00:51:04,515 --> 00:51:06,235
Speaker 1: get justice. There's no other choice.

940
00:51:06,715 --> 00:51:06,975
Speaker 2: Yes.

941
00:51:07,235 --> 00:51:11,095
Speaker 1: Those are the two possibilities. Yeah. Everybody wants justice here

942
00:51:11,155 --> 00:51:13,315
Speaker 1: on earth. Be careful. You might just get it someday

943
00:51:13,335 --> 00:51:14,755
Speaker 1: from an infinitely just being.

944
00:51:15,275 --> 00:51:19,115
Speaker 2: Yes. Okay, now let me ask you some silly questions.

945
00:51:19,875 --> 00:51:23,195
Speaker 2: If you were stuck... On a desert island. Uh-huh. And

946
00:51:23,235 --> 00:51:26,295
Speaker 2: you can only listen to three songs for the rest

947
00:51:26,355 --> 00:51:32,015
Speaker 2: of your life. What would that be? Okay.

948
00:51:32,735 --> 00:51:34,275
Speaker 1: Won't Get Fooled Again by The Who.

949
00:51:35,295 --> 00:51:36,134
Speaker 2: Oh, I like that song.

950
00:51:36,315 --> 00:51:39,835
Speaker 1: A lot of energy in that song. And it's a

951
00:51:39,855 --> 00:51:44,465
Speaker 1: classic conservative song. Why? Because meet the new boss, same

952
00:51:44,505 --> 00:51:46,005
Speaker 1: as the old boss. We think we're going to do

953
00:51:46,045 --> 00:51:51,535
Speaker 1: a revolution, and we've still got a sinner in power. Right? Yeah.

954
00:51:52,055 --> 00:51:55,455
Speaker 1: It's just, so I love that song. I run to

955
00:51:55,475 --> 00:51:56,115
Speaker 1: that song.

956
00:51:56,135 --> 00:51:59,654
Speaker 2: I won't get fooled again. Yeah, yeah. Good.

957
00:51:59,995 --> 00:52:02,305
Speaker 1: Man, this is hard, Greg.

958
00:52:02,325 --> 00:52:02,785
Speaker 2: Oh, come on now.

959
00:52:02,805 --> 00:52:04,125
Speaker 1: I got to pick from all these songs.

960
00:52:04,185 --> 00:52:09,965
Speaker 2: I'm stumping the apologists with weird questions. Nothing from the Beatles?

961
00:52:10,445 --> 00:52:13,385
Speaker 2: What about Tiny Tim? Tiptoe to the tulips?

962
00:52:14,765 --> 00:52:18,505
Speaker 1: I'm a Who fan, so I would probably pick Eminence Front.

963
00:52:19,265 --> 00:52:20,205
Speaker 1: There'll be another song.

964
00:52:20,545 --> 00:52:23,114
Speaker 2: Could you sing that for us? I don't know that song.

965
00:52:23,235 --> 00:52:23,915
Speaker 2: Eminence Front?

966
00:52:24,015 --> 00:52:26,895
Speaker 1: No, you got to hear it. It's basically about how

967
00:52:26,935 --> 00:52:31,835
Speaker 1: people put a facade on, a front, to hide really

968
00:52:31,875 --> 00:52:33,195
Speaker 1: what's going on in their lives.

969
00:52:33,335 --> 00:52:33,575
Speaker 2: Right.

970
00:52:34,295 --> 00:52:38,565
Speaker 1: And it's just a mask. These are very deep answers.

971
00:52:38,625 --> 00:52:41,725
Speaker 2: I'm just looking for songs. Okay, all right.

972
00:52:42,565 --> 00:52:47,285
Speaker 1: And then I would probably pick I'll pick a ballad.

973
00:52:47,325 --> 00:52:51,205
Speaker 1: How about Hey Jude? Hey Jude. Actually, you know what

974
00:52:51,225 --> 00:52:54,445
Speaker 1: I would do? Because they're all strung together. I would

975
00:52:54,485 --> 00:52:57,935
Speaker 1: take Side B of Abbey Road.

976
00:52:58,825 --> 00:52:59,605
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's good.

977
00:53:00,295 --> 00:53:00,975
Speaker 1: That's what I would take.

978
00:53:01,715 --> 00:53:06,755
Speaker 2: Okay, so I would pick, and it changes. I would

979
00:53:06,795 --> 00:53:12,675
Speaker 2: go Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane, only because they're perfect

980
00:53:12,735 --> 00:53:17,045
Speaker 2: representations of Paul and John. All right. You know, I

981
00:53:17,085 --> 00:53:20,185
Speaker 2: could live with Hey Jude for the third song. But,

982
00:53:20,205 --> 00:53:24,395
Speaker 2: you know, I also like, you know, Hard Day's Night, Help. Okay,

983
00:53:24,435 --> 00:53:27,875
Speaker 2: so looking back in the Beatles records now, now we're

984
00:53:27,895 --> 00:53:32,795
Speaker 2: in the Beatles section, Frank. Okay, so like what is

985
00:53:32,835 --> 00:53:37,895
Speaker 2: your favorite Beatles record that you love from start to finish?

986
00:53:37,935 --> 00:53:41,315
Speaker 2: Like this is the best Beatles record. You just identified

987
00:53:41,475 --> 00:53:46,405
Speaker 2: Side B of Abbey Road, which is amazing. Okay.

988
00:53:47,485 --> 00:53:51,805
Speaker 1: I would probably, it's either the White Album or I

989
00:53:51,825 --> 00:53:53,855
Speaker 1: would probably go with Abbey Road.

990
00:53:54,515 --> 00:53:59,235
Speaker 2: Good choices. I interviewed, or he interviewed me, Rick Rubin recently. Yeah.

991
00:53:59,355 --> 00:54:01,875
Speaker 2: And I asked him what his favorite Beatles record was.

992
00:54:01,915 --> 00:54:06,575
Speaker 2: He said the White Album. Yeah. And mine is Revolver, Frank.

993
00:54:07,225 --> 00:54:07,475
Speaker 2: I know.

994
00:54:07,515 --> 00:54:08,165
Speaker 1: You said that.

995
00:54:08,225 --> 00:54:11,845
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the reason is because that was a transitional

996
00:54:12,285 --> 00:54:14,105
Speaker 2: album where they were kind of going from the Fab

997
00:54:14,165 --> 00:54:19,875
Speaker 2: Four thing. Two really very creative artists, right? Yeah. If

998
00:54:19,895 --> 00:54:22,315
Speaker 2: you could sit down with one of the Beatles, living

999
00:54:22,395 --> 00:54:26,765
Speaker 2: or dead, who would it be? Have a cup of coffee? Paul. See,

1000
00:54:26,805 --> 00:54:29,725
Speaker 2: that's still possible. Paul's alive still. Yeah. Yeah.

1001
00:54:30,225 --> 00:54:32,705
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly Paul. And what would you say to him?

1002
00:54:32,745 --> 00:54:35,025
Speaker 1: I think Skip Heitzik tried to send him a letter once.

1003
00:54:35,445 --> 00:54:37,145
Speaker 2: Well, you can do that. You don't have to. Yeah.

1004
00:54:37,185 --> 00:54:39,505
Speaker 2: You can send it. Don't know if it will get

1005
00:54:39,525 --> 00:54:41,045
Speaker 2: to him. What would you say to Paul?

1006
00:54:41,905 --> 00:54:43,825
Speaker 1: What, like if I, if he, if he really knew

1007
00:54:43,845 --> 00:54:46,205
Speaker 1: what I did for a living and we, we knew

1008
00:54:46,265 --> 00:54:48,325
Speaker 1: one another going in or it's like a blind, like

1009
00:54:48,365 --> 00:54:49,465
Speaker 1: I just see him on the street.

1010
00:54:49,945 --> 00:54:53,445
Speaker 2: Frank, these are hard questions. So I don't know. Like, yeah,

1011
00:54:53,765 --> 00:54:54,805
Speaker 2: let's see. He knew.

1012
00:54:54,935 --> 00:54:57,615
Speaker 1: I probably asked Paul. I said, Paul, you wrote so much,

1013
00:54:57,635 --> 00:55:00,355
Speaker 1: some of the best songs about life. But if you

1014
00:55:00,375 --> 00:55:03,375
Speaker 1: had to, you know, if he was opened at a discussion,

1015
00:55:03,415 --> 00:55:04,835
Speaker 1: I'd say, what is the meaning of life? Why are

1016
00:55:04,875 --> 00:55:05,695
Speaker 1: we here, Paul? Yes.

1017
00:55:06,655 --> 00:55:10,435
Speaker 2: He would say, Frank. And in the end, the love

1018
00:55:10,515 --> 00:55:12,915
Speaker 2: you take is equal to the love you make.

1019
00:55:13,635 --> 00:55:15,035
Speaker 1: You think he'd say that? I don't know.

1020
00:55:15,215 --> 00:55:16,535
Speaker 2: In the end. He's saying it.

1021
00:55:17,295 --> 00:55:18,375
Speaker 1: Say it like Paul would.

1022
00:55:19,975 --> 00:55:24,135
Speaker 2: I got to think, because all the Beatles are different.

1023
00:55:24,315 --> 00:55:26,755
Speaker 2: You know, John's a bit more like this. I'm John.

1024
00:55:27,575 --> 00:55:30,415
Speaker 2: And then Joel's a bit more like this. I don't know.

1025
00:55:30,795 --> 00:55:34,605
Speaker 2: Paul's just, you know, he's, you know. And in the end,

1026
00:55:34,645 --> 00:55:37,665
Speaker 2: the love you take is equal to the love you make.

1027
00:55:37,945 --> 00:55:38,245
Speaker 2: You know.

1028
00:55:39,205 --> 00:55:42,265
Speaker 1: But what happens, Paul, why are we here to begin with?

1029
00:55:43,705 --> 00:55:46,815
Speaker 1: Does it matter if there's no afterlife, if there's no God,

1030
00:55:46,875 --> 00:55:49,595
Speaker 1: whether you live as a lover or a hater, ultimately?

1031
00:55:50,375 --> 00:55:50,655
Speaker 2: Yes.

1032
00:55:51,215 --> 00:55:52,435
Speaker 1: Does it matter, ultimately?

1033
00:55:53,155 --> 00:55:54,835
Speaker 2: Well, Paul would say, no, I don't know what Paul

1034
00:55:54,855 --> 00:55:57,615
Speaker 2: would say. I did meet Ringo recently. I told you

1035
00:55:57,635 --> 00:55:59,955
Speaker 2: about this. You sent me the picture, yeah. Yeah, and

1036
00:55:59,975 --> 00:56:02,885
Speaker 2: I told him, I said to him, Ringo, I want

1037
00:56:02,905 --> 00:56:05,585
Speaker 2: to tell you something. And he looks at me, and

1038
00:56:05,625 --> 00:56:07,885
Speaker 2: I said, I wanted to tell you that Jesus Christ

1039
00:56:07,965 --> 00:56:08,364
Speaker 2: loves you.

1040
00:56:08,385 --> 00:56:11,455
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. And he says, I go straight to God, right?

1041
00:56:12,035 --> 00:56:12,865
Speaker 2: He did say that.

1042
00:56:13,475 --> 00:56:14,205
Speaker 1: And then you said.

1043
00:56:14,545 --> 00:56:17,085
Speaker 2: No, I didn't say it. My wife said it. So

1044
00:56:17,145 --> 00:56:18,425
Speaker 2: I said, Ringo, I wanted to tell you that.

1045
00:56:18,445 --> 00:56:19,384
Speaker 1: Kathy said, Jesus is God?

1046
00:56:19,665 --> 00:56:21,945
Speaker 2: Yes, I said, I wanted to tell you Jesus Christ

1047
00:56:21,985 --> 00:56:26,105
Speaker 2: loves you. Ringo says, I go straight to God. I

1048
00:56:26,145 --> 00:56:30,095
Speaker 2: was a little stunned by that response. Like, whoa, I'm thinking,

1049
00:56:30,155 --> 00:56:32,875
Speaker 2: what am I going to say next? And my wife, Kathy, says,

1050
00:56:33,175 --> 00:56:39,185
Speaker 2: Jesus is God, which is great. And then Ringo kind

1051
00:56:39,205 --> 00:56:41,105
Speaker 2: of looked at her and I looked at her and

1052
00:56:41,545 --> 00:56:44,385
Speaker 2: I looked at Ringo. It was a great, awkward moment.

1053
00:56:44,445 --> 00:56:47,085
Speaker 2: I said, it was a great pleasure to meet you.

1054
00:56:47,545 --> 00:56:49,895
Speaker 2: I left before they threw me out. But, you know,

1055
00:56:49,935 --> 00:56:51,875
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, you planted a seed. Well,

1056
00:56:51,895 --> 00:56:54,675
Speaker 2: you meet these people and think it's very easy to

1057
00:56:54,735 --> 00:56:56,955
Speaker 2: be starstruck. Because when I went to George, I met

1058
00:56:56,975 --> 00:57:00,685
Speaker 2: George Harrison. I was so starstruck. I didn't say anything

1059
00:57:00,725 --> 00:57:03,385
Speaker 2: about Christ. And I regretted that. And I feel like

1060
00:57:03,425 --> 00:57:06,345
Speaker 2: you meet these people. Who's going to tell them this?

1061
00:57:06,585 --> 00:57:09,485
Speaker 2: You know, instead of, oh, I love you. I love this. OK, fine.

1062
00:57:09,525 --> 00:57:12,365
Speaker 2: You can compliment them. You know, that's great. But then,

1063
00:57:12,805 --> 00:57:15,285
Speaker 2: you know, tell them this. They need to hear this.

1064
00:57:15,325 --> 00:57:17,605
Speaker 2: You know, we were in New York once. It sounds

1065
00:57:17,625 --> 00:57:20,425
Speaker 2: like I'm name dropping, but I just did see him.

1066
00:57:20,445 --> 00:57:22,665
Speaker 2: We're having sushi. Do you like sushi, Frank?

1067
00:57:23,585 --> 00:57:26,125
Speaker 1: I love sushi. And by the way, Billy Graham told

1068
00:57:26,165 --> 00:57:27,225
Speaker 1: me never to name drop.

1069
00:57:28,325 --> 00:57:29,905
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to tell you the story now.

1070
00:57:31,105 --> 00:57:35,485
Speaker 2: And you know, Billy did not name drop sometimes. I'm

1071
00:57:35,525 --> 00:57:36,925
Speaker 2: not going to tell you the story. And it was

1072
00:57:36,965 --> 00:57:37,725
Speaker 2: a good one. Come on.

1073
00:57:37,745 --> 00:57:38,675
Speaker 1: You got to tell me now.

1074
00:57:38,695 --> 00:57:44,995
Speaker 2: Okay. So I'm with my wife, Kathy, my present wife.

1075
00:57:45,675 --> 00:57:48,335
Speaker 2: I was with Eric Metaxas once and he introduced me

1076
00:57:48,375 --> 00:57:52,965
Speaker 2: as Greg Laurie's here in studio with this present wife. Hey,

1077
00:57:53,225 --> 00:57:55,265
Speaker 2: we've been married 52 years. Okay.

1078
00:57:55,705 --> 00:57:57,445
Speaker 1: Hey, Greg, Greg, before we go on, we got to

1079
00:57:57,465 --> 00:58:00,125
Speaker 1: say we both married our trophy wives first.

1080
00:58:00,385 --> 00:58:03,425
Speaker 2: Yes. First. And we're going to keep it that way.

1081
00:58:03,505 --> 00:58:04,025
Speaker 1: That's right.

1082
00:58:04,125 --> 00:58:07,295
Speaker 2: How long have you been married, Frank? 40. Good for you.

1083
00:58:07,935 --> 00:58:08,175
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1084
00:58:08,355 --> 00:58:11,515
Speaker 2: Okay. So I'm in a sushi place with Kathy and

1085
00:58:11,555 --> 00:58:15,865
Speaker 2: Calvin Klein walks in, sits down. And I said to Kathy,

1086
00:58:15,895 --> 00:58:18,305
Speaker 2: Calvin Klein just walked in. I said, I'm going to

1087
00:58:18,365 --> 00:58:20,985
Speaker 2: talk to him. I've got to find the right moment.

1088
00:58:21,425 --> 00:58:24,685
Speaker 2: So we're leaving the restaurant. He's sitting there. And I said,

1089
00:58:24,745 --> 00:58:27,985
Speaker 2: excuse me. I didn't say excuse me because that would

1090
00:58:28,045 --> 00:58:31,585
Speaker 2: have made no sense. I said, excuse me, Mr. Klein.

1091
00:58:32,205 --> 00:58:34,165
Speaker 2: I wanted to say hello. And he says, hello. I said,

1092
00:58:34,465 --> 00:58:38,325
Speaker 2: you know, done amazing design work over the years, you know.

1093
00:58:38,345 --> 00:58:41,205
Speaker 2: And he goes, thank you. And I said, I wanted

1094
00:58:41,245 --> 00:58:44,475
Speaker 2: to tell you something. And he said, yes. I wanted

1095
00:58:44,535 --> 00:58:46,935
Speaker 2: to tell you that Jesus Christ loves you. I said

1096
00:58:46,995 --> 00:58:49,235
Speaker 2: the same thing I said to Ringo. And he just

1097
00:58:49,255 --> 00:58:53,655
Speaker 2: looked up, he said, thank you. And I thought, you know,

1098
00:58:53,755 --> 00:58:57,325
Speaker 2: it's just a little seed. And sometimes the Lord leads

1099
00:58:57,345 --> 00:58:59,825
Speaker 2: you to sow a seed. Sometimes you water a seed

1100
00:58:59,865 --> 00:59:02,625
Speaker 2: someone else has sown. And then there are those occasions

1101
00:59:02,685 --> 00:59:04,425
Speaker 2: where the Lord will speak to your heart and say,

1102
00:59:04,925 --> 00:59:07,825
Speaker 2: close the deal. Ask him the question. Like, Hey, would

1103
00:59:07,845 --> 00:59:10,605
Speaker 2: you like to accept Christ into your life right now? Yeah, yeah.

1104
00:59:10,625 --> 00:59:14,195
Speaker 2: You know, and you have to have the Lord lead you. But, okay,

1105
00:59:14,235 --> 00:59:17,125
Speaker 2: so thanks for this. time. And I want to remind

1106
00:59:17,165 --> 00:59:20,465
Speaker 2: everyone that Frank has written a brand new book. Frank,

1107
00:59:20,525 --> 00:59:21,845
Speaker 2: and the title of your book is?

1108
00:59:22,445 --> 00:59:26,895
Speaker 1: The War on Reality, Recovering Truth in a World that

1109
00:59:26,955 --> 00:59:31,135
Speaker 1: Celebrates Lies. And if people want to read the full word,

1110
00:59:31,335 --> 00:59:33,745
Speaker 1: even without buying the book, go to To the war

1111
00:59:33,785 --> 00:59:36,485
Speaker 1: on reality dot com. And Erica Kirk wrote the forward.

1112
00:59:36,505 --> 00:59:38,565
Speaker 1: And actually, Greg, it's quite profound.

1113
00:59:38,685 --> 00:59:38,905
Speaker 2: Wow.

1114
00:59:39,065 --> 00:59:43,105
Speaker 1: Actually, I mean, she is very, very sharp. So if

1115
00:59:43,125 --> 00:59:44,925
Speaker 1: you read that forward, you'll go, wow.

1116
00:59:45,405 --> 00:59:48,245
Speaker 2: So you wrote this book for what reason and why

1117
00:59:48,305 --> 00:59:49,295
Speaker 2: should a person read it?

1118
00:59:50,475 --> 00:59:54,575
Speaker 1: Because in the past 10 minutes of human history, Greg,

1119
00:59:54,795 --> 00:59:58,395
Speaker 1: we've been told that reality isn't what we think it is.

1120
00:59:59,045 --> 01:00:01,845
Speaker 1: that men can be women, that men can have babies,

1121
01:00:01,915 --> 01:00:05,175
Speaker 1: that abortion is health care, that castrating children is health care,

1122
01:00:05,775 --> 01:00:09,895
Speaker 1: that racism, the way you fight it is with more racism.

1123
01:00:10,055 --> 01:00:13,765
Speaker 1: You know, there's oppressed and oppressors, that math is racist,

1124
01:00:13,805 --> 01:00:17,365
Speaker 1: which doesn't add up with me, that reason and logic

1125
01:00:17,425 --> 01:00:21,425
Speaker 1: are tools of oppression, that W and WNBA doesn't have

1126
01:00:21,465 --> 01:00:26,965
Speaker 1: any meaning anymore. I mean, Greg, young girls are getting hurt.

1127
01:00:27,545 --> 01:00:31,105
Speaker 1: They're losing scholarships to men and women's sports, and our

1128
01:00:31,145 --> 01:00:34,105
Speaker 1: young people are now at risk. Young girls are at

1129
01:00:34,225 --> 01:00:37,125
Speaker 1: risk when they go into a locker room of having

1130
01:00:37,145 --> 01:00:41,375
Speaker 1: a man who identifies as a woman accost them because

1131
01:00:41,595 --> 01:00:44,195
Speaker 1: people are saying, oh, that's really a woman. No, it's not.

1132
01:00:45,115 --> 01:00:51,615
Speaker 1: And so when reality is thrown— overboard. We Christians are

1133
01:00:51,635 --> 01:00:53,935
Speaker 1: supposed to be salt and light and say, no, here's

1134
01:00:53,975 --> 01:00:56,555
Speaker 1: what reality is. And in order for you to be

1135
01:00:56,795 --> 01:01:01,055
Speaker 1: saved and sanctified, you have to stop rebelling against reality,

1136
01:01:01,215 --> 01:01:04,655
Speaker 1: accept reality and accept the forgiveness that Christ gives us.

1137
01:01:05,145 --> 01:01:08,865
Speaker 2: Amen. So Frank, if an older Frank could speak to

1138
01:01:08,885 --> 01:01:11,645
Speaker 2: a younger Frank, what would you, what advice would you

1139
01:01:11,665 --> 01:01:15,285
Speaker 2: give yourself? Wow.

1140
01:01:15,365 --> 01:01:21,245
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Um, I would say that you've

1141
01:01:21,265 --> 01:01:25,385
Speaker 1: got to know the Bible better than you do. Because, yeah,

1142
01:01:25,445 --> 01:01:28,525
Speaker 1: I know the Bible, but not as well as I could, Greg.

1143
01:01:28,845 --> 01:01:33,425
Speaker 1: And by the way, I think God is the perpetual novelty.

1144
01:01:33,445 --> 01:01:37,425
Speaker 1: You'll never know enough about God. True. Because he's infinite.

1145
01:01:37,785 --> 01:01:38,065
Speaker 2: Yes.

1146
01:01:38,645 --> 01:01:41,085
Speaker 1: And there are parts of the scripture I go, I

1147
01:01:42,305 --> 01:01:43,285
Speaker 1: don't even know what this means.

1148
01:01:44,435 --> 01:01:44,625
Speaker 2: Right?

1149
01:01:45,165 --> 01:01:47,095
Speaker 1: I don't know the context right. I don't know what

1150
01:01:47,115 --> 01:01:49,575
Speaker 1: was going on at the time. I answer a lot

1151
01:01:49,595 --> 01:01:51,615
Speaker 1: of Bible questions, but I could be better at that.

1152
01:01:51,815 --> 01:01:52,055
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1153
01:01:53,215 --> 01:01:56,265
Speaker 1: You know, and it's his word, so I should be

1154
01:01:56,305 --> 01:01:56,745
Speaker 1: better at it.

1155
01:01:56,745 --> 01:02:00,305
Speaker 2: So that's good advice for anybody listening right now. Hey,

1156
01:02:00,365 --> 01:02:03,365
Speaker 2: thanks for your time. God bless you and all that

1157
01:02:03,425 --> 01:02:06,525
Speaker 2: you're involved in and what you're doing. May the Lord

1158
01:02:06,625 --> 01:02:09,405
Speaker 2: guide you and lead you and protect you and continue

1159
01:02:09,425 --> 01:02:10,885
Speaker 2: to use you for his glory.

1160
01:02:11,365 --> 01:02:13,585
Speaker 1: Thank you, Greg. Keep doing what you're doing. We got

1161
01:02:13,605 --> 01:02:16,965
Speaker 1: to get more people in the kingdom saved and sanctified.

1162
01:02:16,985 --> 01:02:18,865
Speaker 2: Amen. Thanks, Frank.