1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Life audio. People are very uptight about what's happening in 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: our world today. I mean, we're live in a turbulent world, 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: a lot of turmoil on all kinds of fronts. People 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: are especially focused on the Middle East. People want to 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: know about Israel. They want to know what Israel's part 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: is in the end times. 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: You said this, You said we must always evaluate current 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: events in light of the Bible and not the other 9 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: way around. 10 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people go and look at events that 11 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: are happening in our world today, and then they go 12 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: try to find some passage in the Bible where they 13 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: can kind of maybe twist or distort in some way 14 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: to kind of fit those events. You know, if the 15 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: coming of Christ is near, then the world should begin 16 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: to look like what the Bible says it's kind of 17 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: look like in the end is. 18 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: The warrant iran part of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy? 19 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: What Old Testament prophecies may be in the process of 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: present day fulfillment. How concerned or confident should Christians be 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 2: that we are approaching the end times? And how can 22 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: we wisely discern our time through the lens of scripture? 23 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,199 Speaker 2: Our guest today graduated from law school in nineteen eighty four, 24 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 2: earned his PhD at Dallas Theological Seminary in two thousand 25 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: and six, and has authored fifteen books on end time 26 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: biblical prophecy. Doctor Mark Hitchcock, thanks for coming on the show. 27 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: Well, thanks for having me. Man, great to be with you. 28 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm super eager to jump in because you've just 29 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: published a book that's called The Persian Storm Again. You've 30 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: written fifteen books on this, you've been teaching, you've been preaching, 31 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: you've been writing for decades. Why this book now, Well. 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: You know, people are very uptight about what's happening in 33 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: our world today. I mean, we're living in a turbulent 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: world with a lot of turmoil on all kinds of fronts. 35 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, people are especially focused on 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: the Middle East. People want to know about Israel. They 37 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: want to know what Israel's part is in the end times. 38 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: You know, people are looking at this war with Iran. 39 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: You know, Ron's been a problem now for almost fifty years. 40 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: You know, for the world, you've got you've got Iran, 41 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: you've got Russia, You've got all these different wars that 42 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: are going on right now. And I think it's good 43 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: to bring some biblical clarity to what's happening in our world. 44 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: We don't know everything the future holds. The Bible doesn't 45 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: tell us everything, but the Bible does tell us about 46 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: certain events that will take place in the future. And 47 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: to me, it gives great comfort to know that God's 48 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: in control and He's told us ahead of time what's 49 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: going to take place. So I hope that from this 50 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: book people can read the Bible and understand what's happening 51 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: in our world today through the lens of the Word 52 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: of God, and then we'll give people comfort that God, 53 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: who predicted these things twenty five hundred years ago, is 54 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: in control. He's the one who's moving the chess pieces 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: into place for his in time drama of the Ages. 56 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: I love it. By the way, when I first got 57 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: your publisher sent me a copy of your book, at 58 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: first I thought, ah, I don't know, we have never 59 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: met before. I wasn't familiar with your work. Probably the 60 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: same hesitancy some people had if they clicked on this video, 61 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: it's like, oh, here Sean goes. But then you said something, 62 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: and of course with your PhD, with your work at 63 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: Dallas Theological Seminary, a sister school to Talbot where I'm at. 64 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: You said this, You said, we must always evaluate current 65 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: events in light of the Bible and not the other 66 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: way around. What does that mean and how does that 67 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: guide your research and approach to Iran today. 68 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: Well, you know, we read the Bible, and the Bible 69 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: tells us a lot of things about the future. There's 70 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: a lot of prophecies in the Bible that were about 71 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: the future that are now passed, you know, they've already 72 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: come to pass. But it tells us a lot of 73 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: things about the end of days. And we want to 74 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: look at events that are happening in our world today 75 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: though through the Bible, not the other way around. You 76 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people go and look at events that 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: are happening in our world today and then they go 78 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: try to find some passage in the Bible where they 79 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: can kind of maybe twist or distort in some way 80 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: to kind of fit those events. So we want to 81 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: read the Bible. What does the Bible say is going 82 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: to happen in the future, And if the coming of 83 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: Christ is near, then the world should begin to look 84 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: like what the Bible says it's going to look like 85 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: in the end. So God knows that we're thinking people. 86 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: And if he tells us, hey, here's what it's going 87 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: to look like as you get near the end, we 88 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: begin to see it looking that way, then that's an 89 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: indication to us at the coming of Christ, you could 90 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: be very near. So we want to make sure we're 91 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: not twisting the Bible to fit headlines. But it is 92 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: amazing though today when you do read the Bible, how 93 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: much what we see in our world today is mirroring 94 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: what we see in the Word of God. 95 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait to get into that with you. 96 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 2: Some passages from Daniel, some passages from Ezekiel that I 97 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: think are pretty stunning. But before we get there, I 98 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: think it'd be helpful for our audience to know some 99 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: of your, say, religious and theological commitments, or lenses through 100 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 2: which you approach this question, because we all know there's 101 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: probably no issue in the Bible that is more debated 102 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: than the end times. So maybe explain a little bit 103 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: what dispensationalism is and some of the theological lenses that 104 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: you operate by. 105 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, you know, I believe the Bible 106 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: is inspired. It's an errant, you know, it's the Word 107 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: of God. And when we read the word of God, 108 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 1: what the Bible says, God says. I believe we should 109 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: take the Bible and interpret it in a literal or 110 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: maybe sometimes people use the word normal method of interpretation. 111 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: Now that includes symbolism. You know, we always use symbolism 112 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: when we talk and use metaphors, but we understand those 113 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: in the way that they were intended. But that's very important, 114 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: and that's really kind of a lynchpin of dispensationalism that 115 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned, is we use a literal normal method of interpretation, 116 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: But really dispensationalism, if you want to just kind of 117 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: boil it down to its essence, is we believe there's 118 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: a consistent distinction in the Bible between Israel and the Church, 119 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: that Israel and the Church aren't the same. That God 120 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: has a program for Israel, God has a program for 121 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: the Church, and that those programs are not the same. 122 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: That there are promises God made. And this is important 123 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: to ethnic territorial Israel. That's an ethnic group, but it's 124 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: also a land that was promised. He made promises to 125 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: them that He's going to literally fulfill. Those promises have 126 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: not been transferred or taken over by the Church and 127 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: taken then from kind of a literal land that God 128 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: promised and kind of made into something symbolic like heaven 129 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: or something else. We believe God has a literal future 130 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: program for the Jewish people, So there's this consistent distinction 131 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: with it within scripture between those two. 132 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: That's so helpful right now. I know people are thinking, 133 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: wait a minute, I've got a hundred questions about Israel 134 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 2: and why you hold this. That's going to have to 135 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: be another show. If you're thinking, you know what all, 136 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: you'd have Mark back to talk about that and some 137 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: depth let us know, And that's a show we could 138 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: potentially do. But we're focused here on the question of 139 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: is the war in Iran and events in the Middle 140 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: East are they in diative of fulfilled prophecy and the 141 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: end time? And what does the Bible say about this? 142 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: Now here's another question that could also take us aside, 143 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: but it would help frame this issue for a minute. 144 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: You write in your book The Persia Storm, you said 145 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: the best estimates are that the Bible contains about one 146 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: thousand prophecies. Up to now, five hundred of those have 147 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: been literally precisely fulfilled. Before we get to some of 148 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: the prophecies about Persia. Can you give us maybe two 149 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: or three examples of what you're talking about and why 150 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: it matters that we can recognize certain fulfilled prophecies. 151 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know, there were thirty three prophecies fulfilled in 152 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours of Jesus' life on the earth. 153 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: That's incredible. You think about all these prophecies, thirty pieces 154 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: of silver, his betrayal, you're being crucified between two thieves. 155 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, all these prophecies from the Old 156 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: Testament between two criminals. You know, he's crucified. So it's 157 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: just all kinds of prophecies like that, you know, prophecies 158 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: from the past. One will talk about, I think later 159 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: related to Persia. Cyrus, you know Cyrus the Great, his 160 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: names one hundred years before he's born. He's named and 161 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: told what he's going to do, the destruction of the 162 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: city of Nineveh in the Book of Nahem, probably some 163 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: thirty forty years before that takes place. So just you know, 164 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: there are hundreds of prophecies in the Bible that have 165 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: been fulfilled, which tells us, you know, the Bible has 166 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: a really good track record. It's one hundred percent actor, 167 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: one hundred percent accurate one hundred percent of the time. 168 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: So we can know then that the prophecies that haven't 169 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: been fulfilled are going to be literally fulfilled as well. 170 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: You know, the prophecies of Jesus first Coming, He's born 171 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: in Bethlehem, So I take that these prophecies then of 172 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: the return of the end times will be literally fulfilled 173 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: as well. And that's an important point because you know 174 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people that take a lot of Bible 175 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: teachers that take all the First Coming prophecies literally were fulfilled. 176 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: They try to spiritualize a lot of the prophecies about 177 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: the Second Coming, and I want to be consistent those 178 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: were fulfilled literally, These future prophecies will be fulfilled literally 179 00:08:59,280 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: as well. 180 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: How much what's your mindset when we look at these 181 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: prophecies in terms of how much confidence we can have 182 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: in their clarity? And I asked, because a lot of 183 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: the prophecies of Jesus, we look back now that he's 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: done miracles, claimed to be God risen from the grave, 185 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: and then we look back at the Old Testament. Even 186 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: some of his disciples look back and then their eyes 187 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: are open and they see it, but they didn't quite 188 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: see it moving forward. So how much confidence can we 189 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: have in some of these prophecies moving forward, you think 190 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: that we really understand what's going to take place. 191 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: Well, you know, one big major prophecies, the were gathering 192 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: of the Jewish people to their land, you know, began 193 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty eight, and you know, really before that 194 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: period of time, one hundred two hundred years ago, there 195 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: were kind of people out there saying the Jews are 196 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: going to be regathered to their land someday, and you 197 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: know a lot of people would think, how's that ever 198 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: going to happen? You know, it just seemed kind of unrealistic. 199 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: But as you said, we can look now and see, 200 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, God brought that to pass, and so a 201 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: lot of those things that seems kind of just far 202 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: away and maybe somewhat unrealistic. People that believe the Bible, though, 203 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: they said this is going to happen, because the Bible 204 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: says it's going to happen. Charles Spurgeon believed that Spurgeon, 205 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: the Great Preacher in the eighteen hundreds, there's going to 206 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: be a regathering at the Jewish people, and he would 207 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: make comments, I don't know how it's going to happen. 208 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: I don't see how it could possibly happen, But the 209 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Bible says it will take place, So I believe that. 210 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: So a lot of the things we see happening today, 211 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: even a generation or two ago, could have never imagined. 212 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you think about the globalism now that we have, 213 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: with you know, with satellite technology, with computers now with 214 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: AI and with quantum computing, with all these various kinds 215 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: of things. People even you know, a few decades ago, 216 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: couldn't see how the world could be, you know, back together, 217 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: like at the Tower of Babble, kind of everybody together, 218 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: everybody being able to communicate. One person can really you know, 219 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: get a hold of the levers of power and really 220 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: could control the whole world, like the Bible said, the 221 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: Antichrist will do. So a lot of these things, as 222 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: they develop, we can see how they're going to be fulfilled. 223 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: But we can know they're going to be fulfilled, you know, 224 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: because the Bible says they will, even if we can't 225 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: see all the details yet. But you know, the picture 226 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: is becoming clear. I like to you know, it's kind 227 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: of like putting together a puzzle, you know, the goals 228 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: to make it look like the picture on the top 229 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: of the box, and now more and more today the 230 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: puzzle pieces are coming together in our world today is 231 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: beginning to look more and more like the picture on 232 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: top of the box. 233 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: I believe, Okay, good, We're going to get to that 234 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: picture on the top of the box that the Bible paints. 235 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: But it is remarkable that fulfillment of prophecy of the 236 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: regathering of Israel nineteen forty eight. My dad was alive 237 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: during that. He was born in nineteen thirty nine, and 238 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: of course I don't think he remembers it. I've never 239 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: asked in that question, But if that happened in the 240 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: lifetime of people that we know today, it raises and 241 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 2: that was prophesied hundreds of years ago. Even more, that 242 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: raises the fair question could there be other off seas 243 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: fulfilled in the present day, within our lifetime as well? 244 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: And that's what you're asking. So we're going to get 245 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: in a minute to the prophesies that maybe being fulfilled 246 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: about Iran and Persia today. But let's first look back 247 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 2: as a whole. What is like Persia's place in God's story? 248 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: How do we see it appear and what role does 249 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: it play as we look back in the Old Testament. 250 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: Well, Daniel. The Book of Daniel talks a lot about 251 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: the Persian Empire that you know. Daniel chapter two and 252 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: ebchad Nezer has this nightmare. He sees this image head 253 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: of gold, chests and arms of silver, belly and thighs 254 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: of bronze, the legs of iron, the feet of iron 255 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: and clay. And Daniel tells Nevka Nezar, you're the head 256 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: of gold with the Babylon and then he says, after you, 257 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: they'll come another kingdom. And we know that Babylon was 258 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: overtaken by the Meto Persians in October of five thirty 259 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: nine BC, and Persia gave way to Greece. Greece gave 260 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: way to Rome. But it's pictured there as the silver Kingdom. 261 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: Then you go to chapter seven, if the same empires 262 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: are pictured as four wild beasts, and the Persian empire's 263 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: pictured as a bear with three ribs in its mouth, 264 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: and we know that they conquered Egypt and Babylon and 265 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: the Lydians in Turkey, so it's a picture of what 266 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: Persia did in history. Then you go to chapter eight 267 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: of Daniel and you have Persia pictured. There is a 268 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: ram that's conquered by a goat. This pictures that the 269 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: Greek Empire of Alexander the Great. So there's a lot 270 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: there about the Persian Empire and their rise to power. 271 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: And of course one of the great prophecies in the 272 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: Bible is about King Cyrus, who was a Persian king 273 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: who when he when Babylon's conquered in five point thirty 274 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: nine BC, he allows the Jewish people to go back 275 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: to their land and rebuild their temple in five point 276 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: thirty eight BC. Very important event, I mean history that 277 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: Persia played a key role in. 278 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: That's really really helpful. So one question I think could 279 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: be helpful to clarify is the word iran doesn't appear 280 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: in the Bible. In some ways, this is similar to 281 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: the claim like, well, the word trinity doesn't appear in 282 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: the Bible, and I said, well, that's irrelevant. The question 283 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: is does the Bible teach the doctrine of what we 284 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: call the Trinity? Now, of course we're not talking about 285 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: a doctrine here, we're talking about a nation. And in 286 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 2: many ways in the Old Testament they don't even have 287 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: kind of the modern understanding of nation states and borders 288 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: in the way that we do today. So how can 289 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: we have confidence that some of these promises in the 290 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: Old Testament to Persia would map on to modern day Iran. 291 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: Well, Persia, the word Persia Persians, you know Persian. There's 292 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: thirty six times that occurs in the Bible, and thirty 293 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: five of those have been fulfilled. They're related to past events. 294 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: There's really only one of its future and it's Ezekiel 295 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: thirty eight, verse five, where Persia is mentioned with a 296 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: group of nations that come against Israel, and Israel's been 297 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: regathered to their land. That's the previous chapter, Ezekiel thirty seven, 298 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: And they gather with these other nations and they come 299 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: against the land of Israel. So what I see, and 300 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: we'll talk about this in more detail, but in Ezekiel 301 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: thirty eight, verses one through six, we have ten different 302 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: proper names that are mentioned there. And what I think 303 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: we need to do is look for the modern counterparts 304 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: for those nations. So the names of those nations may 305 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: change many times throughout the millennia, but we're going to 306 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: look at in the end times, what is the place 307 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: that occupies the position of ancient Persia. And the name 308 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: Persia was just changed to Iran in March of nineteen 309 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: thirty five, and then it became the Islamic Republic of 310 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: Iran in nineteen seventy nine. So there's a clear connection 311 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: there between modern day Iran and Persia. Iranians do they 312 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: call themselves Persians? They don't like to be called Arabs. 313 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: They're not Arabs. They don't speak Arabic, they speak Farsi, 314 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: So they identify themselves today as Persians. 315 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: That's a really helpful way to do it. The question 316 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: is not does the land of Persia map on identically 317 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: to Iran today? I think the question is does it 318 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: sufficiently map on? And so the promises in the Old 319 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: Testament would continue to apply today. And you think about 320 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: when these books are written hundreds of years before the 321 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: time of Christ to a different audience. They needed to 322 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: make sense then, and they also need to make sense today. 323 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: So I think that's a fair way of approaching it. Okay, 324 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: now you might have somewhat answered this, but before we 325 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: get to the promises still pending for Persia, can you 326 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: clarify some of the prophecy specifically about Persian Iran And 327 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,239 Speaker 2: you mentioned in your book Daniel two seven and eight. 328 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: Yes, sEH On Daniel chapter two, it tells us that 329 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Iran is going to be there, Persia was going to 330 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: be the nation that overtook the Babylonians would be the 331 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: nation would follow Babylon. And really the reason these nations 332 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: are being laid out there and Daniel in the Book 333 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: of Daniel is these are the nations that are going 334 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: to rule over the people of Israel. They're connected to Israel, 335 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: so they follow Babylon in chapter two as the silver 336 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: overtaking the gold. In chapter seven, it's the bear that 337 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: conquers the lion. The lion there pictures Babylon. The second 338 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: is this bear. And then in chapter eight Persia there 339 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: is a ram that's conquered by this goat which pictures 340 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: the Empire of Alexander the Great, which is fascinating, very 341 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: specific prophecy there. So all these past prophecies about Persia 342 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: literally came true. So if there's a future prophecy, if 343 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: there's a prophecy about Persia that hasn't happened yet in 344 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Ezekiel thirty eight, verse five, then we can have confidence 345 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: that that will be fulfilled as well. And it says 346 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: in Ezekiel thirty eight that it's going to happen in 347 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: the latter years of the last days. 348 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: This is really important because I gave a talk at 349 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: my local church on Revelation twenty two about is Jesus 350 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: coming soon? Which is some of the last words in 351 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: the Bible. I say, it's been two thousand years. How 352 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: do I have any confidence of this? Well, because he 353 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 2: came once, he rose from the grave, he fulfilled prophecy, 354 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: and so I can have confidence in the words going 355 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: forward for the future. You're making the same point here 356 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: that there's specific prophecies fulfilled from the Book of Daniel 357 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: that gives us confidence moving forward, and those in Daniel 358 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: and Ezekiel that have not been fulfilled yet. 359 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: Now. 360 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: I know some of my critics right now are like, 361 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: wait a minute, but Daniel was written after That is 362 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: not a debate we're entering into right now. I recognize 363 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: that's a scholarly debate for another time. In fact, I 364 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: haven't covered that on my channel. If some of you 365 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: are like you want me to wait into that, put 366 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: a comment here, and we have some experts at Talbot 367 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: that I could bring in. That is a conversation for 368 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: another day. Now, you also talk about Isaiah forty four prophecy. 369 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 2: So before we jump into Ezekiel thirty eight, what prophecy 370 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 2: is there in Isaiah that contributes to the role of Persia. 371 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: Isaiah forty four. In Isaiah forty five mentioned as I 372 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: said earlier, Cyrus. Cyrus was probably born around five seventy 373 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: maybe around six hundred BC. But Isaiah is a prophet. 374 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: He's writing about seven hundred BC, so he's writing in 375 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: seven hundred BC, and he names Cyrus as the king 376 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: who's going to allow the Jewish people to go back 377 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: and rebuild their temple. Now think about this, in seven 378 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: hundred BC, the temple is still standing. The temple's not 379 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: destroyed till five eighty six, about one hundred years after 380 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: Isaiah writes, and he's already saying there's someone who's going 381 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: to allow you to go back and rebuild it, and 382 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: he's his name is given. That's why, you know, critical 383 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: scholars will say that, well, Isaiah didn't really write this, 384 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: this was someone after Isaiah, because they have a bias 385 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: against the inspiration of the Bible, of a scholarly bias 386 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: that anyone could predict the future. And of course we 387 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: would agree no human can to God names. It's one 388 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: of the great prophecies in all of Scripture, and really 389 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: it's interesting today a lot of people look back to 390 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: that today and point out how the Iranian people and 391 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: the Jewish people going all the way back to Cyrus 392 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: had a great relationship with one another and really did 393 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: up until nineteen seventy nine, you know, with the Islamic Revolution. 394 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: So a lot of people today point back to that 395 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: of kind of this alliance between Jews and Persians and 396 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: what Cyrus did and his kindness to the Jewish people. 397 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: That's such an important point. And I guess I said, 398 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: we're getting Ezekiel thirty eight next, but I do I 399 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 2: do have one more question. You highlight in your book, 400 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 2: and I loved this that you are critical of the 401 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: Iranian leadership and the worldview behind it, but you love 402 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: the Iranian people, and Christians love the Iranian people. In fact, 403 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: you point out, and I did a whole show on 404 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 2: this with Hormo's Chariot, a former Muslim who's come to 405 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: Christ and called kind of the Billy Graham of on 406 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 2: about the number of Muslims and Iranians coming to Christ 407 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 2: over the past twenty five years could be more than 408 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: in the history of like Iran going all the way 409 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: back to the time of Christ. So maybe talk just 410 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: a minute about that background before we get into some 411 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: of this prophecy. 412 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: Well, there's a man where I work out, just saw 413 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: him yesterday morning. He's from Iran. He's a Persian and 414 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: I just talked to him yesterday and he was asking 415 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 1: me about things going on. But he's a believer. But 416 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, we love the Iranian people, you know. So 417 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: I always want to make clear when I write a 418 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: book like this, I'm not against Iran. I don't hate Iran. 419 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to say what I think the Bible 420 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: says will happen there in the future. But God, yes, 421 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: he is doing a great work of pouring out his 422 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: spirit upon the Iranian people. They're in darkness, spiritual darkness, 423 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, maybe in physical darkness here before long, you know, 424 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: some depending on what all happens, but it's you know, 425 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: the people there have no hope. I think they've realized 426 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: that their religion is that it has no power, that 427 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: it just leads to brutality, and they're looking for hope 428 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: and through all the means that that the Gospel is 429 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: able to penetrate that country and so thankful for many 430 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: people doing that. They're coming to Christ and incredible numbers. 431 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: There's no way to really know for sure, because it's 432 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: not an open society, but that would be like God 433 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: to do that, though, to be penetrating into that darkness 434 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: and using those times to bring many people to himself. So, 435 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: you know, I never want anything that I say, you know, 436 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: or teach in Bible prophecy to be you know, anti 437 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: Arab or anti Iran or whatever. We love the people. 438 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: The regime itself, that's the problem. It's a you know, 439 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: I think you know, Joel Rosenberg calls it an apocalyptic, 440 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: genocidal death cult, and that's pretty descriptive, you know, but 441 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,239 Speaker 1: that's what the regime is there, and it's just like 442 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany or other places. It's it's it's the 443 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: regime that that that's driving everything. 444 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: And I really appreciate your clarity that while you and 445 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 2: I both believe there's a distinction between the Church and Israel, 446 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 2: this is not Israel verse Iran, where God favors Israel 447 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: but doesn't have a plan for the people of Iran. 448 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: The purpose, going back to Genesis twelve, was that israeluld 449 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: be a blessing to all nations. And so you and 450 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: I love all the Iranian people, We love our brothers 451 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: and our sisters there, and they are just as much 452 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: of a part of God's plan as anybody, and we 453 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 2: want to be super clear on that. All right, So 454 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: you start off in your book and you really frame 455 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: like this passage in Ezekiel thirty eight is huge and 456 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 2: es Central, can you give us a little background for 457 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: those who maybe haven't read Ezekiel in a while. Who 458 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 2: is Ezekiel? What's the big picture that book? And then 459 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: we'll jump into chapter thirty eight. 460 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: Well, Ezekiel's a Hebrew prophet. He writes around five sevent YBC, 461 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: so it's during the Babylonian captivity. Daniel's already been taken 462 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: in the first wave to go to Babylon. Ezekiel's taken 463 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: in the second wave that's taken there, and he's writing 464 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: around the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. He's got 465 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: the first many chapters in his book. For the first 466 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: twenty four chapters are kind of judgment against Judah. Chapters 467 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: thirty twenty five to thirty two. He's talking about judgment 468 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: on kind of these near nations around Judah, and then 469 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: in chapter thirty three is the pivot of the book, 470 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: because Jerusalem is destroyed. It's destroyed in five eighty six, 471 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: and so then after that he begins to give prophecies 472 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: of hope and restoration for the Jewish people. So, you know, 473 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of the bad news for them, the bad news 474 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: for their near enemies, and now he's going to turn 475 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: and give them hope for the future. And part of 476 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: that hope for the future is they're going to be 477 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: regathered to their land. And I think Ezekiel thirty seven 478 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: is an end time reg gathering, so we've been seeing 479 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: since nineteen forty eight. And then he tells them, once 480 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: you get gathered back there to your land, you're going 481 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: to be at some point in time invaded by this 482 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 1: coalition of nations. There's ten of them mentioned there, and 483 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: God will destroy this invading army. And then chapters forty 484 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: to forty eight of Ezekiel talk about a temple that's 485 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: never been built before. I think it's looking at the 486 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: millennial reign of Christ. After this wars take place and 487 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: Israel goes through this time of great trouble, that God's 488 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: going to bring about the restoration of the nation as 489 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: He's promised. Really in all the prophets. 490 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 2: This is really helpful so to up until chapter thirty 491 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,479 Speaker 2: three is the destruction of the temple, the punishment of Israel, 492 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: and then it pivots towards promises in the future. And 493 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 2: then four or five chapters later we get to Ezekiel 494 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 2: thirty seven, we get to Ezekiel thirty eight, which has 495 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: prophecies still pending. After that we have one about the 496 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 2: relation about the millennium, which of course is discussed in 497 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: Revelation twenty as well. But let's focus in on Ezekiel 498 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: thirty eight, break that down force in the depth necessary 499 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: to understand the prophecies that apply to Iran slash Persia today. 500 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know, giz i'mier, I mean obvious point. Ezekiel 501 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: thirty eight comes after Ezekiel thirty seven. Ezekiel thirty seven 502 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: is the regathering of the Jewish people to their land 503 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: from from all over the world. And that's what we 504 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: see in process. Now six percent of the Jews were 505 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: in the world were in Israel in nineteen forty eight. 506 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: Now it's closing in on half. Almost half the Jews 507 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: in the world live in Israel now and it says 508 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: when they're gathered there back to their land, there's going 509 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: to be a leader. The Bible calls him Gog, and 510 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: Gog is probably related to a word for darkness. I 511 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: don't think that's literally going to be his name, Gog. 512 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: It's just a symbolic picture of this man. Now, he's 513 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: not the Antichrist. The Antichrist is going to lead a 514 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: western confederacy of nations. I believe God will lead a 515 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: northern confederacy of nations that come against Israel. So Gog's 516 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: mentioned says he's in the land of Maygog, and it 517 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: mentions nine places, mentions you know, Maygog and Meshek and 518 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: Tubaal and Gomer and Togarma and Persia Libya or Sudan, 519 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: Libya and Put. So there's nine ancient places mentioned. But 520 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: if you look at those places and again see the 521 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: counterparts on a modern day map, it's Iran, it's Russia. 522 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: Four of the names have to do with modern Turkey, 523 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: modern day Turkey, and ancient put Is Libya, and kush 524 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: Is modern day Soudan. Well. Other than Russia, these are 525 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: all Islamic nations. And it's interesting because Ezekiel Kind of mentions. 526 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: Many people have pointed out kind of the outer ring, 527 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: kind of the far enemies of Israel, but it could 528 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: include the nations within that outer ring as well, because 529 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: in Ezekiel thirty eight six, after you're kind of giving 530 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: all these specifics, he says, and many people's with you, 531 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: So it could be that he's kind of just given 532 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: the specific outer ring, but it includes nations within that 533 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: as well, you know, many of the other modern enemies 534 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: of Israel inside of that. But it says that, it 535 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: says that in the latter days, because at the last days, 536 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: the latter years, that when Israel's been regathered to their land, 537 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: and it says they're going to be at rest and 538 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: living securely, these nations, this coalition of nations are going 539 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: to come to Israel, and it says they're going to 540 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: come upon them like a storm. In other words, they're 541 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: going to try to wipe them off the face of 542 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: the earth. And they're going to come seeking spoil. So 543 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: there's some treasure, some spoil they're going to be seeking there, 544 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 1: and they're going to come into the nation of Israel, 545 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: and it's going to look like Israel's finished and they're 546 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: come in. You can imagine just so this massive horde 547 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: of nations coming and I think that Israel when that happens, 548 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: they're going to be at peace and living securely. I 549 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: think that'll be the time of peace that they have 550 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: with becoming Antichrist again. Anti Christ when he comes to 551 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: power is going to come on a platform of peace. 552 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: We'll talk about this later, but I think the Abraham 553 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: Accords and some of these things could be setting the 554 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: stage for that. But Israel's got to be at peace 555 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: and at rest and living securely when this invasion takes place. 556 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: And we see a lot of war happen in there now, 557 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: but I think that's setting up for peace. But then 558 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: when all this happens, God is going to come and 559 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: wipe these enemies out. It's like an Old Testament scene 560 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: with fire and brimstone from heaven, with disease, with infighting. 561 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: They're going to kill each other. It's going to be 562 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the worst case of death by friendly fire and military history, 563 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: and they're going to be destroyed. And God is going 564 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: to do that as a great vindication. And it says, 565 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: then Israel is going to know that I'm God. I 566 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: think that's going to be when there's a great turning 567 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: of many of the people then in Israel to put 568 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: their faith and hope in their great God Yahweh. 569 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: I want to emphasize for people watching this, like you said, 570 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: this book was written roughly twenty five hundred years ago. 571 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 2: Even if we're like, okay, let's take late dating and 572 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: push it back a few centuries minimally a couple thousand 573 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: years ago plus. And to be talking about Israel returning 574 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: to the land, which we've seen the regathering that you 575 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: describe certain nations that are at odds with Israel like 576 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: to predict that two thousand years ago is powerful. And 577 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: you know I asked you earlier about fulfilled prophecies. One 578 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: of my favorite ones is both Isaiah and Jeremiah prophecided 579 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: that Babylon would be destroyed and never rebuilt. I did 580 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 2: a whole video on this, and ancient Babylon is like 581 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: a graveyard today. It says it'll be jackals, owls, and 582 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: hyaenas there, and a friend of mine, Joel Kramer, went 583 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: in modern day Iraq and found jackals, hyenas and owls 584 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: there to this day and it hasn't been rebuilt. If 585 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: that's prophesied, when Babylon is one of the more powerful 586 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: nations on the earth. That's remarkable. So I pause for 587 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: those who are like, I'm skeptical, I don't think this 588 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: is true. I just want to say, maybe there are 589 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: some fulfilled prophecies, maybe reconsider if the Bible's true, We 590 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 2: need to seriously look at this. 591 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: Now. 592 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: I do again appreciate that you're not starting with like 593 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 2: headlines and going to the Bible and trying to find 594 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: biblical passages that support this. You got your doctorate in theology, 595 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: have developed a theology you believe about the end times 596 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 2: long before any of these events took place today, like 597 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: October seventh, et cetera. Well, you do say, though, quote 598 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: Ezekiel's prophecy reads like today's headlines. What do you mean by. 599 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: That, Well, you got Israel back in the land, which 600 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: obviously is really kind of the lynchpin for so many 601 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: of these prophecies. Israel has to be in the land 602 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But you've got these 603 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: nations that are mentioned there again, Russia, You've got Turkey, 604 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: You've got Iran. These are kind of the three main 605 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: enemies of Israel. Now, Turkey is kind of interesting because 606 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: they're part of NATO. They're kind of the fly in 607 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: the ointment a little bit now, but their allegiances clearly 608 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: are with Muslim nations and you know, when the time comes, 609 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: they're going to be part of this coalition. But we 610 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: see this developing. We see Russia at war with Ukraine. 611 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: You know, the aggression that we see there in Russia 612 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: is exactly what we see it's going to happen in 613 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: the end times. You know, Russia has been getting all 614 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: these drones from Iran, They're sending airplanes to Iran. I mean, 615 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: they're very close allies with one another. So again I'm 616 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: not you know, going and trying to find some you know, 617 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: current event and reading the Bible into you just read 618 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: the Bible and it says, you know, Roche and Nieschek 619 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: and tuball. You look at where these places were, that's 620 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: these ancient nations, and it says it's going to happen 621 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: in the latter years, It's going to happen in the 622 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: last days. These things are coming together. And you know, 623 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: the whole focus of the world right now is I'm 624 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: the Middle East, and that's just that's amazing. I mean, 625 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, the terrorism's focused there. A lot of the 626 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: oil is there. Now, you know, other countries have a 627 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: lot of oil as well, but the Strait of Hormuz 628 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: and all these different things that have been talked about, 629 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: all of that is there, and and the Bible tells 630 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: us in the end that the Bible is going to 631 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: be that the Middle East is going to be the 632 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: staging ground for these events of the end times. It's 633 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: going to be the epicenter for these things, and the 634 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: whole world is focused. So the world's focus. Every day 635 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: you read any kind of you know, news online, you're 636 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: going to hear about Israel. You can hear about Iran. 637 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: You're going to read about Turkey, you're gonna read about Russia. 638 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: You're going to read about these nations and all this 639 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: ongoing conflict that's taking place there. And you're going to 640 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: read about this constant yearning and clamoring for peace, for 641 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: some kind of peace over there. And it's coming because 642 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: the Bible says Israel is going to be at rest, 643 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: living securely when this happens. So we see the nations 644 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,719 Speaker 1: aligning that this prophecy talks about. We also see this 645 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: yearning for peace that I think is going to take 646 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: place in the not too distant future as well. 647 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: I want to ask you in just a second how 648 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: this overlaps with the Book of Revelation. You've answered this somewhat, 649 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: I think, in some depth, but I want people watching 650 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: knowing that actually doctor Alan Holtberg, who's a revelation scholar 651 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 2: today teaches the classes at Talbot on my Sunday Difficult 652 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: Bible Passages series. We're starting this Sunday specifically asking questions 653 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 2: like what about the rapture, who is the Antichrist? The 654 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: millennium mark of the Beast? So I will be weighing 655 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: in with a scholar with these eight to ten to 656 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: twelve minute kind of short videos because people want to 657 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: know about this. But in terms of the picture in 658 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 2: Ezekiel thirty seven and thirty eight, did we miss anything 659 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: from the Book of Revelation that's relevant to this picture 660 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: that you're painting. 661 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: Well, the Book of Revelation, you know, the core of 662 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: the book, chapter six through nineteen, are telling us about 663 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: this time of trouble that's coming upon the world, the 664 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: tribulation period. It's called the day of the Lord. It's 665 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: the time of Jacob's trouble. In Ezekiel thirty vers Jeremiah 666 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: thirty verse seven it's a time of testing and tribulation 667 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: for the nation of Israel. And Ezekiel thirty eight and 668 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: thirty nine is not specifically mentioned in the Book of Revelation. 669 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: I don't believe now does mention Gog and Magog, which 670 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: is mentioned in Ezekiel thirty eight, but that's mentioned all 671 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: the way over in chapter twenty. I think it's just 672 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: kind of saying, look, we're going to have another kind 673 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: of another gog maygog, you know, the end. So the 674 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: Book of Revelation doesn't mention everything that's mentioned, but clearly 675 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: in the Book of Revelation when you get there, there's 676 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of wars that are taking place that the 677 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: world's just going to be engulfed by that, and Ezekiel 678 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: thirty eight thirty nine that war will be part of 679 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: all of that. I think the main war that's specifically 680 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: mentioned in the Book of Revelation is Armageddon, which is 681 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: that culminating climactic conflict at the very end of the 682 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: tribulation that happens in conjunction with the coming of Jesus Christ. 683 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: That's awesome, Okay, So let's shift and you hit it 684 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 2: at this a little bit earlier, but you spend some 685 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: time in your book again it's called the Persian Storm. 686 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: What I love about it, Mark, is it's short in 687 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: the sense, I don't about one hundred and fifty pages. 688 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 2: It's like the length of a more than a carpenter. 689 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: You get right to the point, you make a biblical argument, 690 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 2: but you tie it into certain modern events today. And 691 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 2: as I read it, you're not saying this is necessarily 692 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 2: biblical prophecy fulfillment, but this sure lines up and we 693 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: should be paying attention here. And you talk about October 694 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 2: seventh and the Abraham Accords, how do those potentially fit in? 695 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 2: And did I miss any other events taking place right 696 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 2: now that we should tie in as well? 697 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: You know, October seventh was kind of like a prophetic 698 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: shift of gears almost, I mean, something changed because Israel 699 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: then really had license to go and to basically obliterate Hamas. 700 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: Now you know those things are still ongoing. That hasn't 701 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: all been settled, sure, but you know Iran and then 702 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: you know Israel has also gone and done a lot 703 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: of destruction of Hesbelah, So you know Iran's being weakened, 704 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: Iran's proxies are being weakened. All of this. I think 705 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: it was a terrible, horrible event that happens on October seventh, twelve, 706 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: one hundred and twelve hundred Jewish people were killed slaughtered there. 707 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: But I think that ultimately that's going to propel everything 708 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: to a piece that's going to happen. That'll be a 709 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: temporary piece, it'll be a false piece, but there will 710 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: be a piece because Israel now is going to be 711 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: able I think to have these proxies of Iran neutralized. 712 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: I mean if for Iran itself is weakened greatly. They're 713 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: the main source of all of this turmoil over there 714 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: in that part of the world. You know, Saudi Arabia 715 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: I think, really wants to become part of the Abraham Accords. 716 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: You've got Bahrain and some of the other nations over 717 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: there that have in these piece accords with Israel. You've 718 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: got Egypt. You know, they've been at peace with Israel 719 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: since seventy nine, or at least not at war Jordan 720 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety four. So these are all the enemies 721 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: that used to attack Israel. The Asad regime has fallen 722 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: in Syria, there's a new leadership there. They're certainly not 723 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: pro Israel, but a lot of that just hardened animosity 724 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: that was there for decades has has been relaxed a 725 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: little bit. So what I see as and again I'm 726 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: not a prophet or the son of a prophet, but 727 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: what I see from this is that I think all 728 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: this war that we're seeing over there is eventually going 729 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: to play out to a time of unparalleled peace, and 730 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: it's going to come through the Abraham of Cords, through 731 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, some of these other nations getting on board. 732 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: And that's what the Bible predicts. You know, while they 733 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: are saying peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come 734 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: upon them suddenly, like birth payings upon a woman. They 735 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: will by no means escape. So I think all of 736 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: this war and this conflict that's happened is paving the way. 737 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, President Trump has the Board of Peace, He's 738 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: the head of this Board of Peace. He's trying to 739 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: get all these other leaders on board. You have to 740 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: pay like a billion dollars, you have to come and 741 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: be a part of the Board of Peace, and they're 742 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: going to kind of negotiate what happens in Gaza and 743 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: all this, and I don't know what all will happen 744 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: from that, but just the fact that we have something 745 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: like that going on, and the Bible says that there's 746 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: going to be a time of peace in the Middle 747 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: East when these nations are going to attack Israel, is 748 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: the stage being said. These things aren't the fulfillment of 749 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: Bible prophecies, but they're setting of the stage for that. 750 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: In other words, things are lining up to be fulfilled 751 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: in the future. 752 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 2: That's really good, that makes sense. I appreciate that distinction 753 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: between them actually fulfilling prophecy and setting the stage for 754 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 2: the potential fulfillment of prophecy. That's great. What you said 755 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: about October seventh kind of shifting gears with prophecy is 756 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 2: really interesting because I went to Israel, I think it 757 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: was eighteen and nineteen with a group of apologists and 758 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 2: we had a chance to meet with some military leaders. 759 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 2: We had a tour from the person who really helped 760 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: build the wall between Israel and West Bank or the 761 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: area of West Bank in Israel, and there kind of 762 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 2: was a sense, my takeaway a little bit like we're 763 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 2: kind of at a stalemate and we've just got to 764 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 2: kind of survive and keep them at bay was kind 765 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: of my takeaway, and October seventh completely shifted that as 766 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 2: far as we can tell. So you're right, the last 767 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 2: three years things have radically shifted and potentially ramped up. 768 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: So if this is the beginning towards a fulfillment of prophecy, 769 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 2: if what will happen to Israel? In fact, what will 770 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 2: happen to Israel anyways, even if it's not in the 771 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: near future and it's still another thousand years away, what 772 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: do we know from the Word of God will happen 773 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 2: to Israel and how they will prevail? 774 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: Well, I think you know that one of the things 775 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: that's going to take place in Israel is there's going 776 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: to be this treaty there's going to be the anti 777 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: Christ Daniel nine twenty seven. I take it after the 778 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: rapture seem tub believe in a pre tribulation rapture, I 779 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: might think that the Antichrist is going to come on 780 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: the world scene, and he's going to come on a platform, 781 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: a piece, he's going to be a great peacemaker, and 782 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: he's going to somehow guarantee a peace I think for Israel, 783 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: because Israel, then it also says is going to have 784 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: access to their Temple Mount, and they're going to carry 785 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: out sacrifices there something. There's going to be a third temple, 786 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: a rebuilt third temple there on the Temple Mount, and 787 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: so the Antichrist is going to make some kind of 788 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: a peace agreement. I think he's going to bring peace 789 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: to that part of the world. And again it'll be 790 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: a temporary peace because Israel's going to be at rest 791 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: and living securely when these nations invade. So there's going 792 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: to be Israel's gonna have a treaty, there's gonna be 793 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: a temple that's going to be rebuilt. There's going to 794 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: be this trap, you know, you could call it where 795 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: Ezekiel thirty eight and thirty nine happens. And after that, 796 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: the anti Christ is going to come against Israel. And 797 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: so then Israel's going to have a terrible time of 798 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: persecution throughout this time of tribulation, and God's going to 799 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: use that to purge and cleanse the people. And at 800 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:39,359 Speaker 1: the return of Jesus. This is a beautiful prophecy. Yahweh says, 801 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: they're going to look upon me whom they pierced. They're 802 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: going to mourn for him like one mourns for an 803 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: only son, and God's going to pour out a spirit 804 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: of grace and supplication on them. So there's going to 805 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: be a national conversion of the Jewish people in the future. 806 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: Then that will go into the millennial Kingdom, into the 807 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 1: millennial reign of Jesus Christ. So there's a glorious future 808 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: for the nation of Israel. God's going to fulfill his 809 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: covenants he made with Abraham for the land. He's going 810 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: to give to them for a dividic king, a son 811 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: of David, to rule over them. All that's going to 812 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: be fulfilled. But Israel's going to have to go through 813 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: a time of great trouble to get to that point 814 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: in time to get to the kingdom. 815 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: Do you see America playing a role in this and 816 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: if so, what role might it play? 817 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: Well, you know, America's never mentioned in the Bible and 818 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: Bible prophecy in America United States. You know, a lot 819 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: of people try to find America in different places. You know, 820 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: some will say America's Babylon and Revelations seventeen and eighteen. 821 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 1: You know, America's the ten Lost Tribes of Israel. America 822 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,800 Speaker 1: is this unnamed nation back in Isaiah chapter eighteen, you 823 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: or the Young Lions of Tarsish and Ezekiel thirty eight. 824 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: A lot of different places people try to find America. 825 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: To me, all of those are way too tenuous to 826 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: try to draw some conclusion that that's America. So I 827 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: don't think America's mentioned. Well, a lot of people say, well, 828 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, England's not mentioned, and you know, Brazil's not mentioned, 829 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: and so you know, the fact that we're not mentioned, 830 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, it shouldn't be a big deal. But you 831 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: think about this, though, if we are the nation that 832 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,399 Speaker 1: we are today, when the end times arrive, you think 833 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: that there would be some way that the Bible would 834 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: allude to America, because we're the most powerful nation politically, 835 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: economically that's ever existed, and the Bible could have easily 836 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: made some reference to this far away nation or whatever. 837 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: We're not mentioned, and so you know, people said, well, 838 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: why aren't we mentioned. Well, you know, it could indicate 839 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 1: that something happens to America to reduce us from our 840 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: superpower status. It could be economic implosion. It could be 841 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: God forbid and nuclear explosion here. It could be you know, 842 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: it could be just a if we fall from the 843 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: corruption within you know, kind of Romans one. But my 844 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: view is it's the rapture. If you take even five 845 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: to ten percent of the people in America are believers, 846 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: true believers, it's thirty million people plus, it will be 847 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: gone in a moment of time. And in America, those 848 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: are a lot of leaders and a lot of key 849 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: people in our country. And so it could be that 850 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: the Rapture is the event that kind of reduces America 851 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: from our superpower status and then we become part of 852 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: maybe a conglomeration of nations or a part of Antichrist 853 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: empire or something like that. But I think that America needs, 854 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: at least from what we see now, will remain a 855 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: powerful nation until the rapture because we're the main nation 856 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: that backs Israel and the supports Israel. You think if 857 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: we weren't here, Israel would be it would be in 858 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: big trouble, at least humanly speaking. So I think will 859 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: remain a strong nationally somewhat powerful until the Rapture to 860 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: be a defender and a helper for the nation of Israel. 861 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: And then after the Rapture takes place, the Antichrist is 862 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 1: going to kind of move in and fulfill that so 863 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: I think America is not mentioned in propcy, and I 864 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: think that's actually significant. I think the silence is is important. 865 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 2: That's really helpful. I appreciate that you don't overreach there 866 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 2: and yet say this fits within my theology when I 867 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 2: think the Bible says, so here's my best reasoned assessment 868 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 2: of what might happen with America. I think that stated. Well, Now, 869 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 2: I do want to ask you a last question in 870 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,359 Speaker 2: terms of how we should live in light of this, 871 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 2: And I also don't want to steal a thunder from 872 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 2: your book, But did we miss any pieces in terms 873 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 2: of current event or biblical pieces that people should know 874 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 2: as we try to understand biblical prophecy and how it 875 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 2: relates to Iran and Israel today. 876 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I think we've covered. You know, 877 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: Israel's got to be regathered to their land, They've got 878 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: to be at peace. We see those things, you know, 879 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: the gatherings happened to the piece. It looks like it's 880 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: on the way. We see this coalition of nations that 881 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: are that are that are lining up, and so you know, 882 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: these are the things that are that are in motion 883 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,879 Speaker 1: that we see today. Now, we don't know how long 884 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: that we don't know how long it's going to take 885 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: for the stage to get set. You know, God's setting 886 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: the stage. And I always like to say, between now 887 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: when the end times arrived, there's gonna be a lot 888 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 1: of twists and turns. But we see these things moving 889 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: in that direction. But you know, I think when we 890 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: talk about you know how this should affect us today. 891 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 1: You know, God, God told us these things. I don't 892 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: think that He didn't tell us he sings to scare us, 893 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: but to prepare us. He didn't tell us this to 894 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: make us, to make us anxious, but to make us 895 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: alert and aware to what's happening in our world. We 896 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: know the Bible's true. These prophecies have been fulfilled, and 897 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: we can know that the prophecies that haven't been fulfilled 898 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: will be literally fulfilled as well. And if God orchestrated 899 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: all those events to fulfill all those hundreds of prophecies 900 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,720 Speaker 1: in the past, He's orchestrating all these events to fulfill 901 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: these prophecies in the future. God's in control. I mean, 902 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,240 Speaker 1: even though that when we look at this world sometimes 903 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: it looks like a truck, you know, going down a 904 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: winding mountain. Road and out of control. We can know 905 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: that that there's someone who's at the wheel. And all 906 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: these major geopolitical events and all these players, how God's 907 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: brought them all into the right place at the right time, 908 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: gives us the confidence that God controls this world. And 909 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: I just always like to think of it like this 910 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 1: in my own life. If God has the whole world 911 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: in his hands, he has my world in his hands. YEA, 912 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: my puny little life. If God can control all of 913 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: those events on a geopolitical level, he can control the 914 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: events in my life. He's got the whole world in 915 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 1: his hands. He's got my world in his hands. And 916 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: that's a wonderful thought at night when we put our 917 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 1: head on the pillow to go to sleep at night, 918 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: God's got the world in his hands. He's got my 919 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: world in his hands, and we can trust in him. 920 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: We can rest in that and find peace and find comfort. 921 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,400 Speaker 1: And I don't know what people who don't know the 922 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: Lord how they live in this world today without just 923 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: being filled with so much fear and anxiety. 924 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 2: You've writen fifteen books on biblical prophecy. When was the 925 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 2: first book that you wrote on that? 926 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: The first book I wrote was back in the early 927 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: nineties when the Soviet Union fell. Wow, you know it 928 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: is over thirty years ago, thirty about thirty two years 929 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,879 Speaker 1: ago the Soviet Union fell, and Bible prophecy teachers had 930 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: said for a long period of time that that Ezekiel 931 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: thirty eight was about the Soviet Union, you know, and 932 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: these other nations and their kind of satellite nations invading Israel. 933 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: When the Soviet Union fell apart in nineteen ninety one, 934 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: a lot of people were saying, we'll see, they'll do. 935 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: What these prophecy teachers were teaching was not right. So 936 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 1: I went back and looked at Ezekiel thirty eight, this 937 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: is way back then, and looked at these nations and 938 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: looked back at who what they are, and there, you know, 939 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't didn't have to be the Soviet Union, It's Russia. 940 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: For the nations that people often related to Russia were 941 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,360 Speaker 1: actually in modern day Turkey Mishek and Tubal. It's not 942 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: Moscow and Tbalsk, these were places in Turkey. So I 943 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: was kind of the first person, I think, I don't 944 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,439 Speaker 1: know if anybody else who've done that in ninety four 945 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,280 Speaker 1: that kind of identified these current nations that we see 946 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 1: today as the Ezekiel thirty eight players, and so actually 947 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: the breakup of the Soviet Union in many ways makes 948 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: the fulfillment of that prophecy more likely rather than less likely. 949 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: So it was a book called After the Empire back 950 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four. 951 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 2: That is remarkable that you were writing on that. And 952 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 2: I just want to emphasize for our audience that's the 953 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 2: importance of starting with the text, not starting with the 954 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 2: Soviet Union, which was called the great evil for seventy 955 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,360 Speaker 2: years against America. Not starting there, But what does Ezekiel teach? 956 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,320 Speaker 2: What does revelation teach? As best as we can tell, 957 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 2: And then ask the question do current events map onto this? 958 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 2: Now you were cautious back in the early nineties. What's 959 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 2: your personal sense if I can ask, So, you've been 960 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,920 Speaker 2: writing on prophecy three decades, fifteen books. You described how 961 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 2: October seventh kind of ratcheted things up. What's your personal 962 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 2: sense of confidence that these events are matching up? Like 963 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 2: where are you at personally having studied this thirty years 964 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 2: and kind of feeling like, wait a minute, I'm seeing 965 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 2: certain signs that really well could be preparing the way 966 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 2: for the end times. 967 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a book by John Lennox. He's 968 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,359 Speaker 1: an Oxford mathematician, wonderful Christian, and he's got a book 969 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,839 Speaker 1: on Revelation. I read not long ago, and he made 970 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,799 Speaker 1: a great statement in there. He said, you know, we've 971 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: often said that the Middle East is the focus of 972 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 1: end time events. He says, I think maybe it's Silicon Valley, 973 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,839 Speaker 1: and that's interesting. I wouldn't agree with him totally. I 974 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: still think the Middle East is the focus. But to me, 975 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: the most staggering thing now that's moving forward Israeli technology 976 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 1: with Ai and these things. It's almost like we're back 977 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: to the Tower of Bible where God says I'm going 978 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: to scatter man all over the earth because nothing's going 979 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: to be withheld from him. It's almost like we're back 980 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: there now where the things that people are coming up with, 981 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they're believable, you know that, the advances that 982 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 1: people have in technology. And I guess for myself, there's 983 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,520 Speaker 1: just a sense in my own mind, how far can 984 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: this stuff go? To God will say enough, we've got 985 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,120 Speaker 1: to come and put an end to this. Again. I 986 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: can't put a date on that or a time period 987 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,080 Speaker 1: all that, but it's a sense that I have that 988 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 1: just how long and how far can man go with 989 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,799 Speaker 1: AI and transhumanism and all these things that are out 990 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: there that are just mind boggling. I'm not a very 991 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: i don't know how to operate technology very well. I'm 992 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 1: still back in the nineteen nineties or whatever, so this stuff, 993 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: it just boggles my mind. But we see today all 994 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,359 Speaker 1: the tools of world domination that can be used by 995 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: someone like the Antichrist, and we see all these nations 996 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: lining up exactly the way the Bible says we should expect. 997 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,239 Speaker 1: And so I just think every believer we need to 998 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 1: live with a sense of the imminent return of Christ. 999 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: And by imminent we don't necessarily mean immediate, but we 1000 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: mean that it's going to happen in any moment of time. 1001 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: And people say, when do you think Jesus is coming back? 1002 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: And my answer oz is he can come back today. 1003 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,080 Speaker 1: That's the way we need to live. He can come 1004 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,760 Speaker 1: back at any moment, and I should have a powerful 1005 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: effect on how we live. I love that. 1006 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,840 Speaker 2: That's really well said. I grew up in I was 1007 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 2: born in seventy six, grew up in the eighties, and 1008 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 2: there was just so much End Times hysteria that some 1009 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 2: that really turned me off from just a sober assessment 1010 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 2: of the scriptures. But when I read your book, mark 1011 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,360 Speaker 2: it was really a breath of fresh air. It's like, Okay, 1012 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 2: let's take the Bible seriously. Let's see what's going on. 1013 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,839 Speaker 2: See if it maps on, see where it does, see 1014 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 2: where it doesn't. Not overstate things, but actually believe that 1015 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,680 Speaker 2: the Bible tells us what's going to happen, and take 1016 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,280 Speaker 2: these things seriously. So your book is excellent. I commend 1017 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 2: it to my viewers. And the title again and make 1018 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,439 Speaker 2: sure it right is the Persian Storm. It's out. Check 1019 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,319 Speaker 2: it out. Can people follow you anywhere else if they 1020 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,200 Speaker 2: want to kind of track with your thinking on this. 1021 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a YouTube YouTube video that I do 1022 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,560 Speaker 1: every week, so you just go to you know, look 1023 00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: at my name Mark Hitchcock YouTube. I do a YouTube 1024 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 1: every week called Marking the End Times and then just 1025 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: try to talk about things that are happening in our 1026 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,480 Speaker 1: world that relate it to Bible prophecy. And you know 1027 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,000 Speaker 1: they're also too. I've been going through doing an exposition 1028 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 1: of the Book of Revelation there and answer questions. So 1029 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: that's a great thing that people can go find on 1030 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: YouTube Marking the End Times. 1031 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 2: Very creative by the way. 1032 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: Marking the End pome my daughter in law came up 1033 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: with that. For me. 1034 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,880 Speaker 2: That's a doctor law for that reason alone. Very creative 1035 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 2: by the way. I've read Lennox's book and interviewed him 1036 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 2: once on his book on AI, twice on his book 1037 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 2: on Revelation. It's actually one of them. I think it's 1038 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 2: almost nine hundred thousand views about Jesus coming soon. It 1039 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 2: really just hit a chord with people because he's so smart, 1040 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 2: and he's so gracious, and he just has a wonderful 1041 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 2: book on Revelation. So people want to follow up. Check 1042 00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,799 Speaker 2: out Marking the End Times by our guest Mark and 1043 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,439 Speaker 2: those couple interviews I did with John Lennox. And look 1044 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:08,400 Speaker 2: this Sunday, starting my difficult Bible series on Revelation with 1045 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,919 Speaker 2: doctor Alan Holtberg, a New Testament scholar from Talbot where 1046 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,360 Speaker 2: I teach. And while you're at it, make sure you 1047 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,239 Speaker 2: hit subscribe because we've got some other shows coming up 1048 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 2: on artificial intelligence, on different religions, on the evidence for 1049 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,359 Speaker 2: the Bible, quite a few on near death experiences coming up. 1050 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,359 Speaker 2: You won't want to miss those. If you thought about 1051 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 2: studying apologetics, we would love to have you at Talb 1052 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 2: School Theology. We have in person distance programs information below. 1053 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 2: We also have a certificate program with some of the 1054 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,200 Speaker 2: top apologists in the world where we will just walk 1055 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,120 Speaker 2: you through lectures and basic training so you can learn 1056 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,239 Speaker 2: how to do apologetics. Mark, thanks so much for your time. 1057 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,760 Speaker 2: Really enjoyed your book, and I got to say really quickly, 1058 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,919 Speaker 2: you are now one of my favorite guests. And here's 1059 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,880 Speaker 2: what I mean by this. I love interviewing doctors because 1060 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,840 Speaker 2: they get to the point, they stay on track, and 1061 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 2: like with your lawyer background, you're just like, here's the point, 1062 00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,439 Speaker 2: let's keep going. The amount we covered in an hour 1063 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,200 Speaker 2: or less than an hour was remarkable, so we'll definitely 1064 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:06,719 Speaker 2: have you back. 1065 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: Thank you, We're good, well, thank you. I appreciate that. 1066 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: God bless you. 1067 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,319 Speaker 2: Hey, friends, if you enjoyed this show, please hit that 1068 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 2: fall button on your podcast app. Most of you tuning 1069 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,760 Speaker 2: in haven't done this yet and it makes a huge 1070 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,560 Speaker 2: difference in helping us reach and equip more people and 1071 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 2: build community. And please consider leaving a podcast review. Every 1072 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,320 Speaker 2: review helps. Thanks for listening to The Sean McDow Show. 1073 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 2: Brought to you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, 1074 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 2: where we have on campus and online programs, and apologetic 1075 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,919 Speaker 2: spiritual information, marriage and family, Bible, and so much more. 1076 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 2: We would love to train you to more effectively, live, teach, 1077 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,919 Speaker 2: and defend the Christian faith today, and we will see 1078 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,240 Speaker 2: you when the next episode drops