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Speaker 1: Let's bring up Christ to Golf. It is Chris to

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Speaker 1: God Risk Gall.

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Speaker 2: I'm joined now by Christigall, most of.

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Speaker 3: The Christ of Goall Show, so let's brand talk radio

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Speaker 3: host Chris Togall.

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Speaker 2: Also his podcast is a musk listen every day Christa

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Speaker 2: Gall Show podcast.

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Speaker 4: And host of the Christgall Show. Let's Bring in Christa Gall.

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Speaker 4: Pay You welcome Chris Speak Gall to.

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Speaker 3: Chris to Gall podcast is presented by US Medical Plan

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Speaker 3: dot com. Save big money monthly and get better health

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Speaker 3: covers at US Medicalplan dot com.

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Speaker 4: Hey, they're merry Christmas, and I guess I will say

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Speaker 4: a happy New Year. Welcome into the Christagall Show podcast.

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Speaker 4: I want to say thank you for another tremendous year

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Speaker 4: of support. Your downloads and your regularly scheduled attention to

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Speaker 4: this show means more than I can say. Our entire

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Speaker 4: family that puts the show together every day, they work

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Speaker 4: so hard to give you content, hopefully quality content you enjoy.

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Speaker 4: We didn't want to leave you without quality content during

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Speaker 4: the holidays. While we're taking some time away, we've put

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Speaker 4: together from some various shows, some special long form interviews.

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Speaker 4: There will be some repeat content of some shows and

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Speaker 4: segments that we really enjoyed. Maybe they're new to you

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Speaker 4: if you missed them before. But over the next few days,

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Speaker 4: while we're away taking some time with family, I hope

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Speaker 4: you're able to as well. But we never want to

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Speaker 4: leave you without something to enjoy and listen to. And

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Speaker 4: today's show and future shows hopefully will be.

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Speaker 1: No exception.

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Speaker 4: We're going to be back with brand new programming on

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Speaker 4: January fifth. But one thing that I want you to know,

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Speaker 4: if you're an Obamacare person, and you are now, it

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Speaker 4: appears officially under the gun because Congress is not going

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Speaker 4: to be able to figure out how to keep your

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Speaker 4: rates from jumping. I don't want you going without health

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Speaker 4: insurance in the new year. I don't want you thinking

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Speaker 4: you have to just sit around being victimized by a

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Speaker 4: jump and Obamacare rates. John Ruhlman, who is my friend

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Speaker 4: and sponsor, is as much a help right now in

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Speaker 4: this era of Obamacare debate as anybody I know. It's

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Speaker 4: an honor to call him friend and yes, sponsor, but

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Speaker 4: most of all he can help. Genuinely, he is a help.

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Speaker 4: He and his company US medical plan dot Com right now.

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Speaker 4: You can reach out to them today and find out

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Speaker 4: he works with one hundred different health insurance companies find

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Speaker 4: out if they can reach out and get a better

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Speaker 4: rate for you. Odds are they can. They'll tell you

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Speaker 4: if you're doing the best that you can do, but

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Speaker 4: odds are they're going to find you a better rate.

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Speaker 4: I've told you my parents have saved four hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: a piece on their supplemental Medicare insurance. I told you

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Speaker 4: I have a dear friend who saved six hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: a month. She's in between jobs. She had to get

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Speaker 4: a Cobra plan and that was going to cost her

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Speaker 4: a ton, and it turned out John and his team

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Speaker 4: found them found her something much cheaper. People that have

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Speaker 4: no insurance, that have never bought it before and think

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Speaker 4: they can't afford it. John finds amazing rates small business

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Speaker 4: owners and those of you who buy it for your

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Speaker 4: whole family. I have a friend John saved one thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars a month for This can be your story, but

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Speaker 4: you're not going to know unless you give them a

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Speaker 4: second eight seven seven four one zero forty three twenty

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Speaker 4: one eight seven seven four one zero forty three twenty

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Speaker 4: one or US medicalplan dot com. What would Christmas be

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Speaker 4: around here without a pastor, a man who knows the

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Speaker 4: Good Book, who knows the story, who knows the Gospel.

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Speaker 4: We love Pastor Lucas Miles. We love the work that

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Speaker 4: he's done of those of you who are in Philadelphia specifically.

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Speaker 4: You know, I have been going to Pastor Lucas as

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Speaker 4: a resource for now years, particularly through the COVID era.

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Speaker 4: And what elated me about my friendship with Lucas is

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Speaker 4: that Charlie Kirk saw in him what I'd like to

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Speaker 4: think we shared in common. I didn't know Charlie well,

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Speaker 4: but I know Charlie shared with me something about Lucas

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Speaker 4: that was really really special, And as such, he made

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Speaker 4: him the director of the Turning Point USA's Faith division,

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Speaker 4: and Lucas is still that as well as pastor and

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Speaker 4: author of his latest book, Pagan Threat, Confronting America's Godless Uprising,

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Speaker 4: with a forward written by aforementioned Charlie Kirk and Pastor,

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Speaker 4: Merry Christmas to you. Welcome in, sir, hey, Merry Christmas

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Speaker 4: to you and going to be with you.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the kind words.

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Speaker 4: I meant every word of it, and I know that

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Speaker 4: this we've talked previously. There's some time for the dust

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Speaker 4: to settle. Grief is something that's ongoing. Now, how are

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Speaker 4: things since we've last talked at Turning Point? Your organization,

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Speaker 4: you're part of it, and you know, I think everyone

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Speaker 4: kind of speculates as they look from the outside in

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Speaker 4: what's next for Turning Point? And have you all righted

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Speaker 4: the ship to the best of your ability? Are you

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Speaker 4: still sorting things out?

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Speaker 2: I couldn't even describe the amount of optimism that our

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Speaker 2: team feels about twenty twenty six. I was just with

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Speaker 2: the senior team and a lot of our staff here

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Speaker 2: this last weekend, and you know what, there is just

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Speaker 2: a unity that God has brought together, I think just

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Speaker 2: amongst the senior leaders of the organization and also you

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Speaker 2: know a lot of are what we call our tennis

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Speaker 2: shoes and clipboard you know, workers out in the field.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's just a we understand the assignment more

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Speaker 2: than ever before. The resolve is there, the commitment is there,

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Speaker 2: just the passion, you know for continuing to do what

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Speaker 2: we have always done, and that is outwork. Uh you know,

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Speaker 2: really those who would seek to oppose our mission values

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Speaker 2: and you know, to continue to put you know, really

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Speaker 2: point points on the board for the Kingdom and for

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Speaker 2: this nation.

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Speaker 4: I know you experienced this more than most. What I

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Speaker 4: was struck by after Charlie's murder was the number of

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Speaker 4: older people, like in some cases the little old lady

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Speaker 4: at church who seemed deeply affected by it, and not

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Speaker 4: because she was a big Charlie Kirk consumer. She wasn't online,

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Speaker 4: she didn't have him on TikTok or whatever, but really

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Speaker 4: shaken to her core. The number of older, more mature,

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Speaker 4: seasoned citizens, as Rush called them, who were impacted by this.

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Speaker 4: Why do you think have you thought much about that?

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Speaker 2: You know, I haven't thought about it from a demographic

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Speaker 2: you know, breakdown standpoint, because we've seen people that are

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Speaker 2: high school students, college students, you know, as well as

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Speaker 2: as well as some of the boomer generation that that

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Speaker 2: have been and I guess I don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry to interrupt you on that thought, lucause I don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry to interrupt. Let me be more clear in

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Speaker 4: that I think I understood. My point was, I understood

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Speaker 4: young people who maybe were big as we call them

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Speaker 4: p ones in the business, they big consumers of Charlie.

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Speaker 4: They knew Charlie. Maybe they came to either faith or

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Speaker 4: their politics through Charlie. And I guess maybe the better

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Speaker 4: way to frame that question was, how about people that

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Speaker 4: didn't really know Charlie all that well or his work

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Speaker 4: seemed impacted by it. I'll try it that way.

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Speaker 1: No, that helpful. I appreciate the clarification.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that there were a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that came to know Charlie after the assassination, after

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Speaker 2: his martyrdom. They had maybe heard about him, they had

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Speaker 2: seen some stuff. They maybe knew that their grandkids or

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Speaker 2: their son or daughter, you know, watched this guy. They'd

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Speaker 2: heard about turning point Us, but didn't really understand what

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Speaker 2: it was. And then as they started, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of unpacking what had just happened here, the significance of this,

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Speaker 2: why is already talking about you know this this man?

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Speaker 2: And then they started watching the content. I've heard from

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Speaker 2: so many people that just said, I just couldn't stop

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Speaker 2: binge watching this on on Facebook or on Instagram or

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Speaker 2: you know, TikTok or whatever it was.

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Speaker 1: And and I think they they kind of fell in love.

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Speaker 2: It was almost like a new generation of people and

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Speaker 2: this is what you're speaking to, a new generation of

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Speaker 2: people kind of fell in love with Charlie, he had

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Speaker 2: already kind of captured that younger generation. And I think

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Speaker 2: that that there was there was others that rippled out

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Speaker 2: into you know, across really all the generations. And you know,

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Speaker 2: Charlie has become He was a tremendous Man's the honor

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Speaker 2: of my life to serve him. But he's become even

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Speaker 2: more than that. Now he's become an icon. He's become,

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Speaker 2: you know, even larger, and God has amplified his voice,

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Speaker 2: you know, in his death.

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Speaker 1: And look, Charlie was a human.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't He was He was you know, had his

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Speaker 2: own frailties like any one of us does. But as

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Speaker 2: far as humans go, I've met very few that I

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Speaker 2: could even put anywhere in a category like Charlie. The

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Speaker 2: just the integrity, the vision, the wisdom, the intellect, his

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Speaker 2: ability to strategize, to work through problems, have compassion towards.

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Speaker 1: People, to love people.

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Speaker 2: He truly loved the you know, when he would go

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Speaker 2: around in these college campuses, it wasn't just about winning

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Speaker 2: a debate or winning a fight or an argument. He

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Speaker 2: loved the people on the other side of the microphone,

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Speaker 2: even the ones that disagreed with him. And he was

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Speaker 2: hoping to reach them.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: He had, you know, kind of this evangelistic and prophetic

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Speaker 2: heart in many ways, and truly truly missed, you know,

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Speaker 2: especially in a season like this.

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Speaker 4: Lucas miles brand new book Pagan Threat, Confronting America's Godless Uprising.

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Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk wrote the forward in this book, By the way,

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Speaker 4: I'm really not gonna name names. I've tried hard to

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Speaker 4: kind of just stay out of the name game generally,

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Speaker 4: but I think everybody knows if they really want to dig.

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Speaker 4: If you don't know, consider yourself lucky. But most who

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Speaker 4: pay attention and follow this stuff to there have been

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Speaker 4: some high profile people that have taken the occasion of

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Speaker 4: Charlie's murder to turn it into something else, And there

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Speaker 4: have been a lot of different plot lines and storylines

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Speaker 4: and personalities. And these are people who largely are friends

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Speaker 4: of Charlie's or said they were friends of Charlie's, some

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Speaker 4: of whom spoke on the stage at Charlie's memorial. How

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Speaker 4: does Pastor Lucas Miles, director of Turning Point Faith and

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Speaker 4: a friend of Charlie's, how do you see all of

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Speaker 4: the consternation swirling around about the organization and Charlie and Erica,

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Speaker 4: and how do you see it organizationally as you're still

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Speaker 4: a part of it and as a pastor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I appreciate. I appreciate that obviously. You know,

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Speaker 2: I understand that there's people that have, you know, a

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Speaker 2: lot of questions. There's so much noise out there and

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Speaker 2: a topic like this, I mean, Charlie, this is a

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Speaker 2: this is a JFK moment, This is a Twin Towers moment,

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Speaker 2: this is a you know, Martin Luther, you know King

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Speaker 2: Junior moment. That these are these are these pivotal moments

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Speaker 2: in history that affects a generation of people and they

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Speaker 2: leave a mark on us. And that always, you know,

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Speaker 2: you look through history, it always creates questions and thoughts

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Speaker 2: and theories and all these sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a natural process of human behavior.

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Speaker 2: When I think about, you know, this situation, I always

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Speaker 2: try to frame things biblically, and so that's how I'm

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Speaker 2: going to approach it. So first off, you know, I

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Speaker 2: came to know Charlie, I've known since twenty twenty. I

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Speaker 2: didn't apply for this job. We've talked about this before,

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Speaker 2: Charlie hand selected me to ask me if I would

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Speaker 2: be the senior director of t POSA Faith, and I'm honored.

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Speaker 2: He could have chose any pastor in the country to

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Speaker 2: make that pitch, too, and I'm deeply honored that he

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Speaker 2: selected me to do so, and that I was able

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Speaker 2: to serve him the last eighteen months. And you really

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Speaker 2: get to continue to serve his vision as we move forward,

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Speaker 2: and we're more committed to that than ever. There's a

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Speaker 2: story in the Bible in First Kings where Solomon has,

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Speaker 2: you know, is a new new king, and he has

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Speaker 2: two women that come to him, both claiming to be

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Speaker 2: the true mother.

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Speaker 1: Of a child.

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Speaker 2: And there used to be two babies, but one of

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Speaker 2: the babies had died during the night. The mother of

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Speaker 2: that child had actually rolled over on top of it

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Speaker 2: and suffocated it. And she goes in and she steals

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Speaker 2: the other woman's baby in the night because they both

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Speaker 2: had children about the same age. And then this trial

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Speaker 2: is taken to court before Solomon in order to you know,

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Speaker 2: try to decide who the real mother is. And Solomon

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Speaker 2: does the unthinkable thing. God gives him a moment of

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Speaker 2: wisdom and Solomon says, you know what, you two ladies

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Speaker 2: are going to fight over this baby. Here's what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do. We're gonna cut the baby in half.

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Speaker 2: And that's how we're going to solve it. We're going

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Speaker 2: to give a half of the child to each of you.

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Speaker 2: And the instant response by the true mother is no, no, stop,

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Speaker 2: she can have the baby. And at that moment, Solomon

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Speaker 2: in his wisdom rules and says, the woman who was

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Speaker 2: willing to sacrifice the child is not the true mother.

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Speaker 2: The woman who was willing to let the baby go

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Speaker 2: in order to see it live, this, in fact, was

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Speaker 2: the true mother. And you know, one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I've said here recently is that Turning Point was

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Speaker 2: Charlie's baby. And there's a lot of people that claim

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Speaker 2: to know Charlie and to love Charlie, and to really

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Speaker 2: know and understand Charlie is you understand how much what

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Speaker 2: he built and what the work, the sweat, the tears,

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Speaker 2: the sacrifice ultimately the giving of his own blood that

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Speaker 2: he put into building Turning Point and t posa faith

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Speaker 2: and all the other you know, derivatives that were there.

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Speaker 2: And and to see people that are willing to allow

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Speaker 2: that to be chopped in half for for the sake

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Speaker 2: of what they don't. They don't how can they claim

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Speaker 2: to know, to love Charlie, to be that true friend,

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Speaker 2: to be that true, true mother, so to.

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Speaker 1: Speak, of what's there?

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Speaker 2: And so I think that there's there's a lesson in

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Speaker 2: that account, you know, for the world right now, Charlie,

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Speaker 2: there's not a person on this planet that valued Charlie

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Speaker 2: that is not well aware of the fact is that

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Speaker 2: he's one of the smartest people of this generation to

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Speaker 2: ever live. And and Charlie knew what he was doing

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Speaker 2: when he hands selected the people who were around him.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't a fool. He's not somebody that got bamboozled.

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Speaker 2: Charlie was more aware and sharper than all of us.

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Speaker 2: He could run circles around, you know, anybody. He was

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Speaker 2: in the business of selecting and building gladiators, and he

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Speaker 2: was fiercely loyal, and he chose people who were fiercely

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Speaker 2: loyal to him because that was such a high value

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Speaker 2: by him. And so I just I want to just

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Speaker 2: assure people that you know, what you see from turning

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Speaker 2: point right now, what you see from.

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Speaker 1: TPSA faith is we're dedicated to the mission.

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Speaker 2: There's you know, there's people As a pastor, people are

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Speaker 2: always going to say things about you or or throw

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Speaker 2: stones at you that don't love the Lord, or they

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Speaker 2: just you know, hate what Christianity is about, or something

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Speaker 2: like that. If I took time to react to everyone,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to do my job. I'm staying focused,

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Speaker 2: and I think our whole team that's really what's driving us.

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Speaker 2: We're staying focused on the mission. We know what's at stake.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing right now islamisis come in this country and

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Speaker 2: get major, major ground in America. We are seeing the left,

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Speaker 2: you know, come at us stronger than ever before. We

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Speaker 2: are still seeing you know, issues with fatherlessness. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: issues with these lost boys. We're seeing issues of you know,

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Speaker 2: the rise of anti Semitism. We're seeing issues of you know,

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Speaker 2: people praising socialism and people praising you know, all these

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Speaker 2: different ideologies. And we have to get back to the

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Speaker 2: business of the American way of life, of talking about

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Speaker 2: the values that we hold to faith, family, freedom, liberty,

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Speaker 2: the things that Charlie has been promoting for the last

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Speaker 2: you know, twelve thirteen years now. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's where our focus needs to be. And so there's

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Speaker 2: noise out there. We're going to cut through it by

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Speaker 2: doing what we always do, and that is outworking everybody

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Speaker 2: around us and staying on mission.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I know it's the holidays. I know this is

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Speaker 4: reaching out to John Ruman and US Medical Plan dot com.

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Speaker 4: I have a friend between jobs. She reached out to

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Speaker 4: US Medical Plan to replace her Cobra insurance rates. Saved

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Speaker 4: six hundred dollars a month. A personal friend who buys

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Speaker 4: his own family's health insurance out of pocket. I sent

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Speaker 4: him to John and now he's saving one thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: a month. Listen, folks, this is one of the easiest

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Speaker 4: ways to save appreciable money every month without sacrificing coverage.

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Speaker 4: But you're not going to know unless you reach out

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Speaker 4: right now and have the conversation eight seven seven four

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Speaker 4: to one, zero forty three to twenty one or log

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Speaker 4: onto US Medical Plan dot com. Lucas Miles authored a book,

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Speaker 4: most recently called Pagan Threat. He's authored a couple, but

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Speaker 4: Pagan Thread is his most recent one, confronting America's godless uprising,

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Speaker 4: with a forward written by Charlie Kirk. I've called it

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Speaker 4: Revelation addiction. It's just my own made up term, but

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Speaker 4: it's what it is. There is a culture of young men,

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Speaker 4: and Charlie was one of those that spoke into the

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Speaker 4: lives of so many of those young men. As you

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Speaker 4: call it a JFK moment or a Twin Towers moment,

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Speaker 4: I think that's so right. And now there's this kind

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Speaker 4: of instant ability that I think President Trump politically is

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Speaker 4: trying to correct, economically trying to correct. We've talked before

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Speaker 4: about young men trending toward faith, but there is an anger,

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Speaker 4: a despondency, some obvious difficulty. And now there are people

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Speaker 4: Lucas who would claim to be Christians or claimed to

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Speaker 4: be on our side or whatever, who seem to be

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Speaker 4: speaking into these young men, sowing division, sowing anger, sowing covetousness,

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Speaker 4: kind of becoming close cousins, if not outright embrace of socialism.

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Speaker 4: It's dark stuff. It is nothing Charlie Kirk would stand for.

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Speaker 4: It's nothing Lucas Miles stands for. Is are there forces

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Speaker 4: that pretended to be friendly with Charlie that were never really,

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Speaker 4: that were are insincere or just cynically now trying to

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Speaker 4: make a play to be divisive, trying to eat away

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Speaker 4: at what Charlie built. How do you view them?

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Speaker 2: You know, look, there's countless motivations that are in people

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Speaker 2: and that drive where they're and so it's very difficult

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Speaker 2: to paint with a broad brush, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: every single instance. I mean oftentimes, you know, without kind

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Speaker 2: of getting into individuals, it's hard to it's hard to

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: I will say that that anytime you have.

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Speaker 2: A leader with the the charisma and the prominence and

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Speaker 2: who is so buying as Charlie, you know, and positive

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Speaker 2: for sure, and you know he he was out there

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Speaker 2: for so long and again Charlie outpaced everybody. He would

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Speaker 2: do you know, three four five sometimes. I mean there

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Speaker 2: was one day I heard of him doing nine events

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Speaker 2: in a day. You know that he just you know,

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Speaker 2: he was just he was out working everybody. And so

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Speaker 2: when you all of a sudden have that individual who

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Speaker 2: is assassinated and martyred, it leaves it leaves that void.

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Speaker 2: And people are going to try to fill that void.

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Speaker 2: And and you know, and I think some are going

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Speaker 2: to be successful and some aren't. Charlie can't be replaced,

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Speaker 2: and none of us can be Charlie Kirk I've just

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Speaker 2: I've said oftentimes I just want to be the best

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Speaker 2: Lucas Miles that I can't be in this generation. That's

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Speaker 2: all I can do and hopefully, by God's grace, that's

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Speaker 2: enough right now. And and so when when we look

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Speaker 2: at this, I think it's important.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Bible says things like whether false motives

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Speaker 1: are true.

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Speaker 2: If somebody's preaching the gospel, then you know there's there's

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Speaker 2: a we won't to allow them to do that.

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Speaker 1: I can't. It's It's God's job to judge the motives.

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Speaker 2: It's it's our job to judge, you know, whether or

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Speaker 2: not it's truly the gospel, and so and to call

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Speaker 2: that out when it's not. We also see in scripture

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Speaker 2: that wisdom is proved right by our actions. And so

433
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 2: I think that when you look at individuals, like what's

434
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 2: the fruit of what they're bringing? What's the fruit of

435
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: their wisdom they're so called wisdom? Is it unification? Is

436
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 2: it is it deconstruction? Is it? Is it building something

437
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 2: or is it tearing something down? And I think you

438
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 2: can see a lot by individuals based upon what's the

439
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: wake that comes behind them. You know, as they come in,

440
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: are they coming in as a planet killer and just

441
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: trying to destroy everything around them just to you know,

442
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: kind of you know, puff themselves up in some capacity,

443
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: or are they are they showing up to say, hey,

444
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: we've got a country to save, like Charlie did, let's

445
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: find ways to work together. I mean, Charlie's able to

446
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: bring you know, RFK and Trump, you know, in the

447
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 2: same room.

448
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: I got to do the opening prayer to.

449
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 2: Rfk's announcement at that rally in Phoenix Glendale, and it

450
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: was it was a historic moment.

451
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: And to see those two, I mean, you knew.

452
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 2: That this was a this was a game changer in

453
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four election. And and I think, you know,

454
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 2: Charlie he had a vision for that. He was a

455
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: builder and the Left is not building anything. The Left

456
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: is tearing stuff down. The Bible also says that not

457
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 2: everybody should presume to be a teacher. You know, there

458
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: are individuals that I'm not doubting their faith, but that

459
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: they they don't have they haven't matured. The way I

460
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 2: would describe it is they're they haven't baked fully.

461
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 4: You know, there's still may I just could I interrupt

462
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 4: on this, I just I just think and I count

463
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 4: myself in this all right, let me Chris Stigall counts himself.

464
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 4: And what I'm about to say, I think listening to

465
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 4: podcasters and lay Christians most of us are, with the

466
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 4: exception of Lucas Miles listening to podcasts who say, hey, I'm, I'm,

467
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 4: I'm you know, Christian Christ is king and all that.

468
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 4: That's that's fine. But if you're getting your theological study

469
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 4: from podcasts nine times out of ten, that's a bad idea, Lucas,

470
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 4: unless it's yours.

471
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: Hey, well, I appreciate that.

472
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, look, you know, finding people

473
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: that are seasoned in life, you know, and this isn't

474
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: to puff me up. There's people been doing this a

475
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: lot longer than me. But I've been at the same

476
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 2: church for twenty one years. You know, there's there's a record,

477
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 2: there's that you can look and see the fruit of

478
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: what's there. I'm sure the pastor joke is fifteen percent

479
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 2: of everything I teach is probably wrong. I'm just not

480
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: sure which fifteen percent it is.

481
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: Right.

482
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure we're all going to get to heaven in

483
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: the Lord's correct us in some areas, but we have

484
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: individuals that you know, they've never they've kind of self ordained,

485
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: you know, themselves as teachers of the word or masters

486
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: of theology. And the problem is oftentimes they don't understand

487
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: the very things that they're talking about. It, I think

488
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: a good instance, and not to you know, take the

489
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: conversation that direction, but just as a reference point, we

490
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: have a lot of people talking about dispensationalism and replacement

491
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: theology as if one of them depends on what side

492
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: of the Israel issue you sit, that the other side's heretical.

493
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: That nobody who understands theology would ever view either of

494
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: those as a heretical position. You might think that one

495
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: is error, but you would never call somebody who holds

496
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: another position is error. The only two heretical positions are

497
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: dual covenant theology, which is that there's a separate way

498
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: for Jews to be saved, separate from the Cross, or

499
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: on the other side of basically where it's no longer

500
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: replacement theology is actually slid over into anti semitism. Replacement

501
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: theology does not equate anti semitism, no more than dispensationalism

502
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: equates to dual covenant theology. And here's the good news.

503
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: I don't hold radically to either. I actually hold to

504
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: fulfillment theology or what would be known as olive branch theology.

505
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: So you know, if somebody wants to try to paint

506
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: me as one of those things, and this is why

507
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: I'm saying that I don't fit in those categories, but

508
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: I will defend people on both of those sides, because

509
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: anybody who understands theology knows that that's well within orthodoxy.

510
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: On both sides.

511
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: This is a secondary issue, and there's there's opportunity for

512
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: debate around that. We consider a cup of coffee and

513
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: have that conversation, but it shouldn't lead you to the

514
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: extremes on either side. But we the problem is we

515
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: have people on podcasts that think they know about these

516
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: topics that have doubled down, you know, trying to paint

517
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: one side or the other in a particular way.

518
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: Who by the way, our very recent converts Lucas very

519
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 4: recent converts to their faith, Okay, which is great and

520
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 4: good for them, but let you're not an authority on

521
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 4: it because you became a Catholic two years ago. Okay.

522
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

523
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: One of my mentors used to say, he said, when

524
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: somebody first comes to understand the Gospel or puts their

525
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: hope in Christ, they should wait at least a year

526
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: before they ever.

527
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: Talk about it. You know.

528
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: I think that if you're looking to test after your conversion,

529
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: the testimony after conversion should sound like this. I was

530
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: blind and now I can see. I don't have it

531
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 2: all figured out. I don't know all the answers right now,

532
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: but all I know is I was blind and now

533
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: I see there. I think it was RC Sproll'm I'm

534
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: not a Calvinist, and so I'm I could be misremembering this,

535
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: but I have a tremendous value for our c He

536
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 2: I think was famous for using the phrase that people

537
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: were in cage stage. Basically, you know, it's kind of

538
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: like what you see in these vampire movies when they

539
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: first turn, you know, the first like you know, the

540
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: first full moon. They want to eat everything and bite

541
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: everybody around them, and they haven't like kind of mastered

542
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: their their their new condition yet. And I think we

543
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: get Christians that are in this cage stage where it's

544
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: like they haven't been properly trained. They're a little bit rabid.

545
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: We have to kind of like keep them locked up

546
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: for a time because they're not really ready. They're just

547
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 2: sort of firing everywhere, and you know, they need they

548
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: need a couple, They need a couple, you know, cycles

549
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: around the sun here. I think to allow that to

550
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: bake a little further before we can start looking to

551
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: them for any sort of doctrinal soundness or position. Doesn't

552
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: mean they can't ask questions, it doesn't mean they can't

553
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 2: have guests on to talk about these topics. But they

554
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: should take the position of a Timothy at at beast

555
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: and not a Pall in this moment.

556
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, when you're on fire, in a newly converted Christian

557
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 4: and you're on fire, you can't understand why anyone else

558
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 4: wouldn't feel exactly the way you feel. You want it

559
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: very much for everyone else, and you'll just run them

560
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 4: over with your enthusiasm sometimes and maybe your flawed theology

561
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 4: sometimes and it's off putting. Actually that's you know, you

562
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 4: become one of those guys with sandwich boards, you know,

563
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: screaming at Christians on the corner. I just anyway, not

564
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 4: while you're here. I could go on about this for

565
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: a while, but Pastor Lucas Miles authored a book called

566
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 4: Pagan Threat, which has become a wildly popular bestseller. How

567
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: do you see it, young people? We've seen the trends,

568
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: the polling suggests young men again still gravitate towards church.

569
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 4: Is that still happening? Has that ebbed since Charlie's death?

570
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: Was Charlie fostering that? Or did Charlie's death foster that?

571
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 4: Or how do you see it? Because I see it

572
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 4: right now in a bit of flux in that again. Yeah,

573
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 4: there's some disillusionment that I think could be hijacked if

574
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: not careful. Makes sense.

575
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: Yes, anytime you have two positions that are super polarized,

576
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: you end with, you know what tends to become an

577
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: age of skepticism. How long that lasts, you know, probably

578
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: depends on a lot of other factors. Charlie's Charlie's Memorial

579
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: was a unifying moment for Christians around the world. I mean,

580
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I've heard numbers of upward of two hundred

581
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: and seventy thousand people attended, kind of whether inside the

582
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: main arena or the overflow arena, or you know, part

583
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: of just kind of being around the area of praying

584
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: outside everything else. I mean, you know, there's a massive,

585
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: massive number of people's viewed by well over one hundred

586
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: million people. And and you know, I'm sure has doubled

587
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: or tripled, you know, with the the uh uh you know,

588
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: the Internet and the ability to replay that later. That

589
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: was a unifying moment. That was something only God can do.

590
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: That wasn't a you can't manufacture revival like that. But

591
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: what we we can do is we can steward the

592
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: revival after the Lord brings it. And so I think

593
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: that there's look the enemy wants to see that destroyed

594
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: that I mean, he wants nothing more. I mean, I

595
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: made a tweet here maybe a week or two ago

596
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: about if I were the devil, what would I do?

597
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: And you know, if I were the devil, I would

598
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: I would try to come in immediately and disrupt I

599
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: said it, I'm sure hopefully much more poetically on my tweet,

600
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: but I can't remember verbatim right now, but it's I

601
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: would try to disrupt the unity after the memorial. I

602
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: would try to paint you know, you know, uh, Charlie's

603
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: work in a certain way. I would try to destroy

604
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: anybody who came after him to continue it, you know,

605
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: and you kind of just keep going on with this,

606
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: and I would I would you know, get churches to

607
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: be afraid to meet and to gather, to be bold

608
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: from the pulpit again and kind of like reset all

609
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: the things that he'd work so hard to build.

610
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen on our watch. We're going

611
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: to keep this thing going.

612
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: And you know, we have a lot of moment I'm

613
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: going into twenty twenty six. I can come back probably

614
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: in another week or two. We'll have a couple of

615
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: bigger announcements that we'll be ready to drop out for

616
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. I think that is right on point

617
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: with this of really trying to see the spirit of

618
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: the Memorial continue to just flourish across this country. There's

619
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: so many good churches. We went from four thousand churches

620
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: to eight thousand churches at tpsa faith that's massive. I

621
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: just gotf the phone with the pastor in Toledo that

622
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: his church it's grown fifty percent. My own church has

623
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: three x since the Memorial. And so you know, we

624
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: are seeing God do tremendous, tremendous things right now. People

625
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: who have never bought a Bible or buying bible, people

626
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: have never gone to church or going to church. We're

627
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: having baptisms every single Sunday at my church. I'm hearing

628
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: the same thing from pastors across the country as I

629
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: talk to them and travel around and speak. This is

630
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: a this is a moment. But look, we can't take

631
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: anything for granted. We can't let up, we can't sit

632
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: on our hands like we have to go. You know,

633
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: we have to go all in right now. And that's

634
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: that's what Charlie would do. I think it's what the

635
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: apostle Paul would do. I think it's what, you know,

636
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: what Jesus would have us do, and that is to

637
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: work harder than them all to buy grace, not through

638
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: our own effort. I can't do this on my own,

639
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: but we just have to lean into God's grace right

640
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: now and say, Lord, look there's all sorts of craziness

641
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: in this world. It's a it's a dark place some days.

642
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna trust you that you're gonna that

643
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: you're gonna see us through and this revival that you started,

644
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: that he who began a good work is going to

645
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: be faithful to complete it. And so we're going to

646
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: lean into that and we're going to believe the Lord,

647
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: and we're gonna keep doing the work in order to

648
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,760
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649
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650
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669
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Speaker 4: I love this. Lucas Miles again his book His Pagan Threat.

670
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: I saw a survey a week or two ago that

671
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 4: said young people still view speech as violent, that speech

672
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 4: can be violence, meaning using the wrong word could be

673
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 4: described as violent. And if that continues with young people,

674
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: then or go you can justify violence to stop violence

675
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: the vulgar things. People like Katie Kuric say, well, you know,

676
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 4: I know what you've said about Charlie, but and it's

677
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 4: unfortunate that he was killed, but you know, while he

678
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 4: was alive, some of the things he said as again,

679
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: if to imply speech almost warrants that heinous thing, we've

680
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: got to be very careful with that. It seems too

681
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 4: many young people still think that's the case, and that

682
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: that becomes problematic for pastors in the pulpit too.

683
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: Well, look, this is this is one sided, right, this

684
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 2: idea that there's you know when you see people say, well,

685
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: we just have to stand against political violence, you know

686
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: that's a that's a that's a straw Man.

687
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Right.

688
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: The problem is we have violence that happens from the

689
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 2: left when they attempt to silence people that say things

690
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: that they don't like. I don't see people, you know,

691
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: there's not there's not a pattern of people that are

692
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: Bible believing, conservative, God fearing individuals that when somebody says

693
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: something they don't like that they just go crazy and

694
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: they just attack them and they or they hurt them,

695
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: or they randomly walk by and punch somebody at a

696
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: at a parade or or a you know, an event

697
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: or something like that. But we are seeing that type

698
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: of behavior from the left and and why because you know,

699
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: truth is only you know, controversial. I've said this a

700
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: lot after after Charlie was killed. People say, you know,

701
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: Charlie was a very provocative figure and or a controversial figure.

702
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like, truth is only controversy when you don't

703
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: want to hear it.

704
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: You know, when they're a provocative right, I mean that

705
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: makes your local pastor who's preaching from scripture provocative. Right.

706
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: It's when you know, if somebody's wandering around in a

707
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: desert and wants to be found, the guy who shows

708
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: up with a bottle of water and directions to the

709
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: nearest town is not provocative.

710
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: He is welcomed and he's received. It's only the.

711
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: Person who went out in the desert because they didn't

712
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: want to be found and they wanted to do it

713
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: their own way, and they hate everybody else around them.

714
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: When that guy shows up with a smile on his

715
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: face and a bottle of water and directions in the

716
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: nearest town, that's the moment he's accused of being provocative

717
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: because the other side has no intention of actually receiving him.

718
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: And so this is this is the situation we have

719
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: right now in this nation. And I think what you're

720
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: seeing through turning point, I think what you saw from Charlie,

721
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 2: you know, throughout his life, what you're going to continue

722
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: to see from CPOSA, Faith and others, is that we

723
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: are going to continue to stand for truth. We're going

724
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: to continue to be the people who are willing to

725
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 2: show up in the desert with a smile on our face,

726
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: a bottle of water and directions to the nearest town.

727
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: You know, which in this case of the analogy, just

728
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: to be clear, is the truth of God's word the

729
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: principles that we see in scripture that bring you know,

730
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: liberty and the pursuit of happiness and religious freedom and

731
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: all the things that go along with this, and we're

732
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: going to continue to do that, and the other side

733
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 2: is probably going to see that as provocative, but it's

734
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: only because their intention is never to receive the truth

735
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: to start with.

736
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 4: Do you see culturally, lucas the things that you talk

737
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 4: about from the poll? But I have also read stories,

738
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 4: and again it's anecdotal. I only know them from the

739
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 4: news stories. I have no way of knowing this is

740
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 4: true that young people are even backing away from the

741
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 4: embrace of the LGBTQ thing, and because they're looking at

742
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: it at scripture much like abortion, that when biblical standards

743
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: are applied, it's no longer again it's about being loving,

744
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 4: but it's about telling the truth. Are you starting to

745
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 4: see that that younger people are even starting to back

746
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 4: away from what was once considered let it alone, let

747
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 4: everyone be whoever they want to be, Love is love.

748
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 4: Are young people starting to realize biblical truth matters and

749
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 4: they have to stand up and speak out about it.

750
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're definitely seeing some of that. To

751
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: what extent, I'm not sure yet. I think that there's

752
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: still some polling and stats that are going to need

753
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: you done. I think we're still early, when you know,

754
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: it's been ninety days, you know, since Charlie was killed.

755
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: I think that they're is more time needed to see

756
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: the full ramifications of the place that we're in right now.

757
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: I will say this though.

758
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: What I am seeing is that because of the revival

759
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: that is taking place that people who were not aligned

760
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: on a lot of ideas, you know with conservatives or

761
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: Christians in the past who have who are starting to

762
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: recognize the importance of faith and they're going to church

763
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: and they're talking.

764
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: About these things.

765
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: This is it's it's exciting because these individuals are going

766
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 2: to church and talking about the Lord. But again going

767
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: back to what we were talking about earlier, they're not

768
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: fully discipled yet, and so we're getting people that are

769
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: kind of joining forces with conservatives in some way as

770
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: sort of this big tent movement, which is great. We

771
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: want that and we want a big tent.

772
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 5: You know.

773
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: That's what turning point. USA as a whole is TPOSA

774
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: faith is a is.

775
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: A smaller tent of you know, born again evangelical you

776
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: know pastors that we're working with. But the you know,

777
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: within turning point us say we want that big tent,

778
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: you know framework, but within the faith side of that,

779
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: I think in that conversation, we just have to be

780
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 2: careful that we are ensuring that these individuals that are

781
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: making that step in the right direction are getting fully disciple.

782
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: And I'm still seeing some individuals.

783
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: That you know, are trying to hang on to, you know,

784
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: divergent forms of sexuality within that kind of LGBT spectrum

785
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: and now claim you know, their revival in Christ simultaneously.

786
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: And so this is where we get into kind of

787
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: this pay threat, right. It is a it's an eroding

788
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: of what is a biblical worldview for sort of a

789
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: choose your own adventure of what Christianity is and it

790
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: becomes more of that amalgamation of faith or that that

791
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: that syncretistic you know aspect to it.

792
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: And so I think that we have some work there.

793
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: This is I mean, if I was talking to pastors

794
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: across the country or church leaders, I would say it's

795
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: time to double down on discipleship. You need a you

796
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: need a essentially like an on ramp where you can

797
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: take a new convert, a new believer, somebody coming back

798
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: to faith for the first time and take them through

799
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: a process to disciple them fully in Christ. And that

800
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: should be able to be done in about probably nine

801
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: to eighteen months, you know, at least for basic formation.

802
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: And the Catholic Church would probably call this a catechism.

803
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: And I think that as evangelicals we need to become

804
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: a little bit more comfortable with that term, that we

805
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: need some sort of discipleship framework that is systematized that

806
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: we can actually disciple these individuals so that we don't

807
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: have a cultural crisis on the other side of this

808
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: of a watering down of what the Gospel actually means.

809
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 4: I don't mean to be too prickly on this subject

810
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 4: of gender, but I am interested in what was a

811
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 4: trend for some time. And I remember going to church

812
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 4: as a younger man. It was much heavier women in attendance,

813
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 4: and men were out golfing or they just didn't want

814
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 4: to go or whatever, watching football on Sunday. And I

815
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 4: know you know Mark Driscoll, I know you've sat out

816
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 4: and talked with him. He's marks one of these guys.

817
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 4: If you don't know who he is.

818
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: When you said that, yes, I don't thought of him.

819
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 4: I don't want to call it a brand that's not

820
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 4: fair because it's it's biblical. But Mark is a man's man.

821
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: He's a guy's guy, and there is I don't want

822
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: to say selling because that sounds cynical. It's not that,

823
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 4: but there is a push a focus on men to

824
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 4: be men and talk about men through a biblical lens

825
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: that I think, it is not arguable, was lacking in

826
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 4: mainline Christianity for a long time. Is that coming back

827
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 4: and is that important for men?

828
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: Well? First off, you know, let me just say about

829
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 1: Mark Driscoll.

830
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: He's somebody who has you know, gotten all sorts of

831
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, attacks over the years that have have come

832
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: at him and everything else. I've gotten no Mark over

833
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 2: the last you know, eighteen months, you know, since I've

834
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: been in this role at TPSA Faith. He was one

835
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: of the first people to show up to our headquarters

836
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: when there was still concerns about even the safety of

837
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: being there with his staff, no cameras, no taking pictures,

838
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: bragging about it and just going around and praying for

839
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: our team. Brought one of his worship guys in just

840
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: to lead worship in our in our you know, kind

841
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: of our bullpen office area, and just went around and

842
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: just prayed for everybody individually, anybody that wanted it.

843
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: Just has.

844
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: Charlie liked him a lot as well. Mark understands the

845
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: crisis I think in this country of the attack on masculinity,

846
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 2: and you know, he has really masterfully developed a message.

847
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: You go to I've been his church on a Tuesday night,

848
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: they have their men's Bible study. You have eight hundred

849
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: one thousand guys show up, and I think they have

850
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: even more if they weren't out of space. They have

851
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: people meeting outside, you know, around the building with tables

852
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: and chairs because they can't fit everybody inside. And they

853
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: have TVs set up in the parking lot, you know,

854
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: so that the guys can watch what's happening with the

855
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 2: speaker inside.

856
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: It's it is, it's it's very very.

857
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 2: Fascinating to see, and it's been very transformative for these guys' lives. Look,

858
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: I don't think that every church has to go like,

859
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: you know, uh full on, like uh you know, cowboy

860
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 2: and and hyper masculine sort of thing, but like.

861
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: We're shooting and eating beef jerky and growing beards and

862
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 4: all that stuff.

863
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

864
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've tried carnivore. I like I had a steak

865
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 5: for breakfast, right, I like, I like red meat. But

866
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 5: I think that you know, what I would say, is

867
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 5: this again, the reason why somebody like Mark seems so

868
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 5: provocative is that there has been such an absence of

869
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 5: masculinity in church culture for so long that all of

870
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 5: a sudden, when you have it back in there, it

871
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 5: seems like, well, this is weird, this is you know,

872
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 5: and and I think that this is just guys leading

873
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 5: from the front, and and you know, when we just

874
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 5: talk about the church as a whole, I think that

875
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 5: you know, seeing I'm a big believer that men and

876
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,479
Speaker 5: women are created to be partners with one another. They're

877
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 5: created to be you know, equal, but different in that way.

878
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 5: And so we have different gifts, we have different skill sets,

879
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 5: we have different you know, roles that that that that.

880
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: We take on. But we also there's a benefit for

881
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: for both.

882
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: And so a church should not be you know, in

883
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: my opinion, it's not that we have to like elevate

884
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: one gender over the other and be like our churches

885
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: about women or our church about men.

886
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: Are are you know?

887
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 2: The church should be about people. And I think that

888
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 2: you know, if you you look at churches that are

889
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: being successful right now, you will see they are creating

890
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: opportunities for men like what Mark's doing, and they're also

891
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: creating opportunities for women. And I think that they're celebrating

892
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: you know that and the differences that are within us.

893
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: And so you know the and what does that do?

894
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: It promotes family, It promotes you know, marriage, it promotes

895
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: uh uh, you know, being good fathers and mothers and

896
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 2: raising great children.

897
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: Again, back to this idea of discipleship.

898
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: Why do we have a crisis at discipleship in this

899
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: country because we have a crisis of fatherlessness, because we

900
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: have a christ of you know, broken families. We have

901
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: a divorce issue, we have you know, all these sorts

902
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 2: of things contribute to where we are. And so how

903
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: do we fix that. Well, we have to restore the family.

904
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 2: We have to restore masculinity, we have to restore biblical femininity,

905
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: you know.

906
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: And there's there's a lot of issues.

907
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: We could go all day long talking about them on

908
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: both sides of the spectrum and everything else that are there.

909
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: But we have there's one solution, and that solution is

910
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: to be conformed in the image of Christ. And we

911
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: do that by dying to ourselves. And getting in the

912
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 2: Word of God and allowing that to just wash our heart,

913
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: our mind, to renew our mind to who you know, uh,

914
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: to who Christ is and who we are in Him

915
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 2: until it starts to stick. And I think we do

916
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: that as the shampoo bottles say, rinse and repeat.

917
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 4: I absolutely love the work of Pastor Lucas Miles. I'm

918
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 4: so glad he is the director at Turning Point USA Faith.

919
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 4: He is authored a brand new book called Pagan Threat

920
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 4: you must go read. And one of these days I'm

921
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 4: going to make it to Indiana and attend one of

922
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 4: his services where his true which is growing. And you

923
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 4: just heard why Pastor, Merry Christmas to you and your family,

924
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 4: so grateful for your friendship.

925
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: Appreciate that likewise, and we'll save a seat for you, Chris.

926
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 4: So that's a wrap for another Christagall Show podcast. Thanks

927
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 4: for committing to it, listening to it all the way through.

928
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 4: You're a fighter. I like that about you. Hope you'll

929
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 4: leave it a five star review and a written review

930
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, Spotify. We'll see you next time here on

931
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 4: The CHRISTA Gall Show Podcast. The Chris de gall Show

932
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 4: Podcast