1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: Build Different is a production of the American Association of 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Christian Counselors. To support this podcast and learn how you 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 2: can help us to promote all our biblical content, spread 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: the Gospel, and provide mental health resources and training to 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: people everywhere, just go to aaccfoundation dot org. Again, that's 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Aaccfoundation dot org. Welcome to Built Different. I'm Zach Clinton, 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: your host, and each week I come to you exclusively 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: on the Life Audio podcast Network. I'm proud to partner 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: with Life Audio and bring you entertaining, life changing, family 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: friendly podcasts for a new generation. 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: I Built Different. 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: Our mission is to provide encouragement, hope and challenge to 14 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: help push you past your limits and reach goals you 15 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: never thought possible. Colossians two, verse six says, So then, 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 2: just as you received Christ Jesus's Lord, continue to live 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him. 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: Amen. Now let's roll. 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back into the Build Different Podcasts. Hope 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: and pray that each and every one of you are 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: having an incredible day. As always, I'll be your host, 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: doctor Zach Clinton, joined by somebody that has had a 23 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: deep in developing impact on my life. And on my 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: own marriage to my beautiful bride, Evelyn. Gary Thomas is 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: going to be helping us understand what it means to 26 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: continue to grow in our identity, to continue to live 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: with integrity, but also to deepen intimacy with God and 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: with one another. Gary is a best selling author of 29 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: several books. He's a pastor, he's a speaker. Books that 30 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: have changed my life, The Sacred Marriage, The Sacred Pathway, 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 2: When to Walk Away. 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: But also he has a new book. 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: That we're going to be unpacking today, The Life you 34 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: were Reborn to live, dismantling twelve lies that rob your 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: intimacy with God. Cannot wait to unpack this, my friend, Gary. 36 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for making the commute down fifteen minutes to 37 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: be here at Red Rocks Church, Lone Tree. We're grateful 38 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: for your time, sir, Thanks for joining me. 39 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: Well, I'm honored to be here. Thanks than Gary. 40 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: You know, as we begin, you've committed a lot of 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: your life to so many of the different things that 42 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: I just mentioned in the bio in the open right there. 43 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: But with all the different hats that you wear in 44 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: this particular season of life, I'm interested this is more 45 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: of like a legacy minded season, What is something that 46 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: you're most excited about right here, right now. 47 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: I'm finding an increasing joy just focusing on exalting Jesus, 48 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 3: helping people get close to Jesus. I'm sort of, you know, 49 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 3: in a stage of life, closer to your father than 50 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 3: you for sure, and being freed from having to find 51 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 3: my own way or make my own mark, just having 52 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 3: a passion saying, you know, it's all about Jesus. We're 53 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: all going to be forgotten a couple hundred years from now. 54 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: What can we do to exalt Jesus, to help people 55 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: draw near to Jesus, and to focus on the name 56 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 3: of Jesus. 57 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting that something It's a message that 58 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: my dad often instills in my heart, is so often 59 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: we spend a lot of our lives being first right, 60 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: paving away, trying to have impact or influence, but we 61 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: neglect just simply being faithful, making it all about Jesus, 62 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: keeping the main thing, the main thing. Gary, as I mentioned, 63 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: you've committed the majority of your life to helping people 64 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: grow in intimacy with God and with one another. And 65 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear just up front, what is a 66 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: simple kind of pathway to really continue to grow in intimacy, 67 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: because one thing you and I know is this, as 68 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: we sit down with couples and we sit down with 69 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: people in marriages and different relationships, love can be complex 70 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: and a lot of people end up losing that love. 71 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: What are some of the contributing factors that you think 72 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: really pull people away from the intimacy with one another. 73 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: Well, I think the focus of this book kind of 74 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: answers your question, and that is we have to call 75 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: people to the truth. Calling people to the truth is 76 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: calling people to Jesus. He says, I'm the Way, the 77 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: Truth and the life. You call Satan, the father of lives. 78 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: And so often our disconnect with each other and our 79 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: disconnect with God is that we're accepting a falsehood, and 80 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: then we're frustrated when the falsehood doesn't prove satisfying. Yes, 81 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: a key verse for me is Romans twelve two, when 82 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: Paul says, don't conform to the pattern of this world. 83 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: That word that we translate world is aon in Greek. 84 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: It could be age, it could be generation. Paul is 85 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 3: warning us that it's a tragedy for those who have 86 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: been washed in Christ, filled with the Holy spirit to 87 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: become good little citizens of the world. But that's what 88 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 3: this world's agenda is. Don't conform to the pattern of 89 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 3: this world. It wants to turn us into these good 90 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 3: little citizens of the world. You will think this way, 91 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 3: you will believe this, you will value this, you will 92 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: prioritize that. It is so. You were reborn to live 93 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: an entirely new life, and so you are transformed, and 94 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 3: that begins by the renewing of your mind. Which is 95 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: why I love counselors. I think mental transformation isn't everything. 96 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: You still have to practice it. But you know this, 97 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: if you believe a lie, you'll live a lie. And 98 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 3: so it has to start with what is the truth? 99 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: What am I going to give my life? If you 100 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 3: follow a lie? Everything goes downhill from there. 101 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: You know you're talking to really two Corinthians ten to five, 102 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: taking every thought captive, making those thoughts obedient to Christ, 103 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: which then once we recognize and we kind of reflect 104 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: on those lies, we can replace them with God's truth. 105 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: That's Philippians four eight. 106 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: Whatever is true, noble, just pure, lovely, admirable, if anything 107 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 2: is excellent or praiseworthy, think on these things. But Gary, 108 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: you mentioned in this book particularly, and you're talking about 109 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: how identity is always received from the outside. Someone either 110 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 2: taught us something, spoke something over us, and we began 111 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: to believe that false narrative or the lie of the enemy. 112 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: You talk about dismantling twelve lies, particularly any particular lies 113 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: in here that you think people struggle with more often 114 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: than not. 115 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest lies of our generation 116 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 3: is the lie of entitlement. Most of us don't think 117 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 3: of ourselves as entitled, but when you look at what 118 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: Scripture says is the baseline for what we should expect, 119 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: it's astonishing how entitled I believe all of us are. 120 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: And it really messes up our relationship with God. It 121 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 3: messes up our relationship with each other. Paul puts the 122 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: bar very low. One Tipathy six's eight. He says, if 123 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 124 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 3: Jesus said in John sixteen thirty three, in this world 125 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: you will have trouble. Yes, when I found if people 126 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: have trouble, they're thinking God isn't doing his part. How 127 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: come I'm having trouble? You know, I've given to the Lord, 128 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: I offer my services, I've given in my heart. I 129 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: financially support the church like they're surprised that they have trouble. 130 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: And we talked about food and clothing, Well, what kind 131 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: of food, what kind of clothing, and how big of 132 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: a house goes on to that My life was changed 133 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: with the story from Theodor Dostievski, famous novelists, maybe one 134 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: of the best of all time, wrote in the twentieth century, 135 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: a lot of people are familiar with crime and punishment, Brothers, Cara, 136 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: mots Off and whatnot. He almost didn't get to write 137 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: any of those novels because when he was in his twenties, 138 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: he was with a group of other writers. They were 139 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: just doing nonfiction pamphlets and whatnot. He hadn't written any 140 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 3: of his fiction, and he was arrested for what the 141 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: Russian government called anti government activities and sentenced to a 142 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: firing squad. So here he's lined up in his twenties, 143 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: literally looking down the gun barrel of the gun that 144 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: would end his life, he thought in seconds, and he's 145 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: got to be this is it. Short. Life. Didn't accomplish 146 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: anything I set out to or really wanted to, and 147 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: it's over. We don't know why, but by some reason 148 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: the government sent in a last minute reprieve, and he 149 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: was sentenced to four years in a Siberian labor camp. Now, 150 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: we kind of joke about a Siberian labor camp being 151 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: the worst place imaginable, because it kind of is. I mean, 152 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: it's nine months of winter, working seven days a week, 153 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: there are no weekends, no holidays. It's brutal, and it's cold, 154 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: and it's vicious. But he had this sweet spirit, and 155 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: he would refer to it in some of his novels 156 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: and his other writings, because he didn't compare a Siberian 157 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: labor camp to living in Santa Barbara. He compared it 158 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 3: to I should be dead, and I'm alive, and so 159 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: I'm even in this place that would make so many 160 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: people bitter. I'm glad I'm in this place than where 161 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: I thought I was gonna go. And Zach, if we 162 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: could see what we deserve because of our sin, facing 163 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: the wrath of God, if we could realize what God 164 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: saved us from, if we could see into a future 165 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 3: without God, like he looked into those gun barrels, we 166 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 3: would feel so rescued and so grateful. We would live, 167 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: in my wife's words, with astonishment instead of entitlement. God, 168 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: I deserve this, and you give me that. If we 169 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: could imagine what life would be without the hope of 170 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 3: Jesus's death on our behalf life without the Holy Spirit 171 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 3: filling us and convicting us and comforting us and counseling us. 172 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: If we realize what we really deserve, it would be 173 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 3: impossible for us to feel entitled, because the Bible is honest. 174 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: Like I said, first of these six eight, if we 175 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: have food and clothing, that's that. Genesis three sixteen says 176 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: relationships are going to be broken and difficult. We're told 177 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: in First Corinthians fifteen that unless Jesus returns, we're going 178 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 3: to get sick and we're going to die. We're told 179 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: in Romans seven sin is going to be an ongoing 180 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 3: struggle that will war against us, that we're going to 181 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: have to struggle with. We're told by Jesus that non 182 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: believers will persecute us. The Bible has been very honest. 183 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 3: It's not going to be an easy life to be 184 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 3: a believer. You're going to face this, this, and this 185 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 3: that's not all going to be fixed in this life. 186 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: And yet we have this sense of entitlement that it's 187 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 3: not enough that we're saved. It's not enough that we're 188 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 3: given the Holy Spirit. We want a certain kind of lifestyle. 189 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: We want all of our relationships to be easy. We 190 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: want sin and temptation to be behind us, and so 191 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: we feel like God hasn't been fair. The reality is 192 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: he hasn't been fair, just in the opposite way that 193 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,479 Speaker 3: we think. He's been more than generous, more than gracious, 194 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: and realizing my level of entitlement just gave me a 195 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: heart that's filled with worship and gratitude and thankfulness for 196 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: what Jesus has done already instead of being upset that 197 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: but he hasn't yet done this, He hasn't answered that prayer. 198 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: I don't yet have that. All of that is entitlement. 199 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: And my word is when entitlement drops, happiness rises. It's 200 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: entitlement that makes us miserable in our marriages, in our parenting, 201 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 3: in our walk with God. 202 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 2: I'm going to stop this right there and jump into 203 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: say you're listening to built different, I'm Zach Clinton. We 204 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: need to break for a brief message from our sponsors. 205 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: I'll be back with our guests to keep the conversation 206 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: that's right after this. You're listening to Life Audio. Now, 207 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, as you're talking about entitlement, like 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: you said, it has several implications, and it begins to 209 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: deter us away not just from intimacy with God, but 210 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,239 Speaker 2: even our spouse is, like you said, even our friendships, 211 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: because entitlements about what can I get, what can I gain, 212 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: rather than like what do I have to offer and 213 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: what can I give? And I think that goes into 214 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: conversation about identity even further, because when we have a 215 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: proper understanding of who we are, like you said, then 216 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: I have a better understanding of who God is. Then 217 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,239 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it unlocks the door to gratitude 218 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: and there is a connection. 219 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: It's funny. 220 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: We had a conversation just yesterday with Ben Higgins, who 221 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: wrote a book A Lone and Plain Sight, and we're 222 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: talking about connectivity, and he said that there was a 223 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: connection between gratitude and intimacy. And so I would love 224 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: to ask you, if gratitude was the key, how might 225 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: that open the door then to intimacy in a whole 226 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: different way than we've ever experienced before with God and 227 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: with others. 228 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: Because our eyes are filled up with what God has 229 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: already done, rather than closed and focus on what we 230 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 3: want him to do that he hasn't yet done. 231 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: Well. 232 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: The entitlement is this thinking that God should do this. 233 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 3: God is supposed to do that, if God really cared 234 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 3: for me. And I've look I've seen entitlement turn people 235 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: away from the Lord for in so many different ways 236 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 3: as a pastor. So you've got a late thirty something 237 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: single that wants to be married. I know a lot 238 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: of thirty something singles. They're happy being single. I'm saying 239 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: one that wants to be married. They've lived life the 240 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: right way. They haven't slept around, they're financially responsible, good conversationalists, 241 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 3: kept themselves in shape, and they wouldn't compromise by dating 242 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: and non believer, and so they think, Okay, I've done 243 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: all that, I've saved myself, I've set myself up. God 244 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 3: hasn't brought somebody for me to marry. He hasn't done 245 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 3: his job. I did my job, I lived a certain way, 246 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: but God hasn't provided me someone to marry. And so 247 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: instead of running to God, they're angry at God. Or 248 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 3: I've seen parents who said, hey, proverb says, raise up 249 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 3: a child in the way he should go. We did 250 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 3: that with four of our kids. We homeschooled two of them, 251 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: brought all of them, we brought them to church. We 252 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 3: did this. Two out of them aren't following the Lord. 253 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: We did our job. God hasn't done his. I've even 254 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: seen people blame their sin on God when they're entitled. 255 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 3: I should be able to spend all of my money, 256 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: not save for a rainy day expense, run up the 257 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 3: credit card bills, and then when it comes due, one prayer. Okay, God, 258 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: I realize I haven't been that responsible, but I need 259 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: you to miraculously provide. And if God doesn't immediately wipe 260 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: out my debt and make things okay, he's not true 261 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: because I've asked him. He's supposed to be my provider. 262 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 3: Or even this is extreme, but I've heard it a 263 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: guy that says he's upset because he got a dui, 264 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 3: and he would say, well, I wasn't really that, and 265 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 3: I don't think I've hardly ever done that before. And 266 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: I know people who don't follow the Lord that do 267 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 3: that every weekend. And so here's one time I mess 268 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: up a little bit. I tie, I go to church. 269 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: Couldn't God cut me a break? Why did God let 270 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 3: me get caught? And so there's this sense again that 271 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: God isn't treating them fairly. So there's no gratitude, there's bitterness, 272 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: there's frustration, there's anger because they're going off what they 273 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: think God should do, not what scripture tells us. This 274 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: is what Jesus clearly says we can expect, It's what 275 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: Paul says we could expect. If we compare those two, 276 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: God is treated us far better than we. 277 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: Deserve Gary's We continue on and we're talking more about 278 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: just entitlement and just the lies that we're trying to 279 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: dismantle throughout our lives. You know, I'm thinking about the 280 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: relationships that we have with others, I'm thinking about a 281 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: relationship that we have with God, and I'm interested, you know, 282 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: when it comes to just biblical intimacy. We talked about gratitude, 283 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: but there's a lot of service, and you talk a 284 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: lot about sacrifice. It's funny, my wife, Evelyn and I 285 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: were joining into this going through the study of the 286 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: sacred marriage throughout our life group at Thomas Ord Baptist Church. 287 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: Some of our best friends, other young married couples, just 288 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: investing in our lives as we invest in theirs and 289 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: as we read through that incredible resource that you provided 290 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: years ago, it's just opening our eyes to the idea 291 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: that love and intimacy in marriage and relationships are really 292 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: more about holiness than they are about our own happiness, 293 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: because it's about what God can do through an individual. 294 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: It's about what God can do through you. It's about 295 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: shaping us and pruning us. Speak to just the concept 296 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: again of relationships and how holiness should really be at 297 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: the core. 298 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: Of all of it. Yeah, again, if we go by 299 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: what Jesus tells us to do, Matthew six point thirty three, 300 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: seek first the Kingdom of God. So I'm not living 301 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: for myself, my own enrichment, my own fame, appreciate people 302 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 3: appreciating me because I look younger than I am. I 303 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: know I don't. I'm just saying that's the focus of 304 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: our culture. So I'm putting God's priority above my own. 305 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: And he said, and his righteousness and his promises and 306 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: all these things will be added unto you as well. 307 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 3: And I found that most marriages break down because they 308 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: lack service and sanctification. They become so selfish. How can 309 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: I get her to do that? How can I get 310 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: him to not do that? We're trying to turn our 311 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: spouse into a love me like I want to be 312 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: love machine. Instead of two people coming together and saying, 313 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 3: what can God do through our relationship? What unique gifts 314 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,359 Speaker 3: has he given us? What calling? What resources? What platform? 315 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 3: So instead of why don't you do this for me? 316 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: The couple saying, hey, why don't we do this for God? 317 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: And that service carries marriages forward, because I think it's 318 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: selfishness that suffocates marriages. And then when you get into sanctification, 319 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 3: it's so key here and a lot of people think 320 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 3: sanctification is avoiding sin, which is true. If a guy 321 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: is angry, if he's looking at porn, that's gonna have 322 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: a negative impact on his marriage. It's not a marital issue. 323 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: It's a personal issue that's gonna negatively impact his marriage. 324 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: If a woman is materialistic or negative and critical, it's 325 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 3: not a marital issue, but it's gonna negatively impact her 326 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 3: marriage in a very severe way. But I would say 327 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: sanctification is also about the positive things. I love the 328 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: Book of Colossians, Chapter three, Paul tells us to take 329 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 3: off anger, rage, malice, slander, filthy language, line earlier he 330 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: talks about sexual immorality. So you remove those things. Okay, 331 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: most of those things you know as a counselor are 332 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 3: issues that assault marriages. And here's the other part where 333 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 3: we don't go far enough. Then he says, put on compassion, kindness, gentleness, patience, 334 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 3: and love. And I would just ask anybody listening to 335 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 3: us or watching us, do you think a marriage will 336 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: improve If two people are earnestly growing in compassion and 337 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 3: kindness and gentleness and patience and love, it's going to 338 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: bless their marriage like nothing else. And so I know 339 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 3: the subtitle became a little bit controversial. What if God 340 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: designed marriage to make us holy more than to make 341 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 3: us happy. But I go back to John Wesley's statement, 342 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 3: I've never met anybody truly happy who's not pursuing holy 343 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 3: because it's our sin that makes us miserable. It's our 344 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 3: sin that pulls us apart. If you're not dealing with 345 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 3: your anger, you're pushing your loved ones away. If you 346 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: have a judgmental spirit who wants to be around you, 347 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 3: they don't feel accepted, they don't feel loved. If you're 348 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 3: harsh instead of gentle, if you're impatient instead of patient. 349 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 3: All of these things are devastating to the relationship, and 350 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: so in pursuing holiness, we're going to become happier and happier. 351 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 3: It's been true in my marriage, and I think it's 352 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 3: true in just about every marriage that tries it. 353 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, and as we continue to unpack that 354 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: book together, just in our life group, it's really pruning 355 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: our hearts. I always tell people that marriage revealed to 356 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: me just how selfish I really was. Oh yeah, it's 357 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: because that's it. You have to get out of the way. 358 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 2: You have to serve one another, like you say, you 359 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 2: have to sacrifice, you have to be sanctified in Christ. 360 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: And as scripture says, the heart is deceitful above all else. 361 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: In other words, in my opinion, my translation here for 362 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: a moment, we're naturally going to pursue happiness what makes 363 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: me happy. But we need other people to come alongside 364 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: of us and to reveal things about ourselves that maybe 365 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 2: we couldn't see through our own eye to make us 366 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: holy in this life. And oftentimes that can be found 367 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: through a significant other, through a marriage, through a friendship, 368 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: whatever that looks like. Just the accountability, you know, Gary, 369 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking for a moment on that, because. 370 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 3: I love where you're going. For me, pursuing holiness changes 371 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: what makes me happy. 372 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: There you go. 373 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: She's an example with my wife. I may have been 374 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 3: the most selfish person in the world when I got married. 375 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: I was twenty two. I was filled with I want 376 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: to get married because she's going to do this, this 377 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 3: and this, and I'll get this, this and this and 378 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 3: all of that. God has so changed my heart over 379 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: forty one years of marriage that I can honestly say 380 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 3: my mom's a greater happiness is when I'm able to 381 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: anticipate when of my wife's needs and meet it. She's 382 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: an extremely healthy eater. When I'm traveling alone, there really 383 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: isn't a restaurant I can't eat at. Lisa will only 384 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 3: want to eat it, maybe ten percent of them, you know, healthy, 385 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: farm to table, non GMO, organic, gluten free, all this stuff. 386 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: And so when we're traveling, she'll often go to like 387 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 3: health food stores and she creates these you know, I 388 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: don't know, this green stuff with cheish seeds in there 389 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 3: and all of that, and she kept doing it, and 390 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: so she'd forget the spoons because you know, you're creating 391 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: your own bowl there. And I started doing that a 392 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 3: couple times, and so I started packing my backpack with 393 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: plastic spoons. If you look at my backpack right now, 394 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: I could pull out three or four plastic spoons. So 395 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: one time she says, oh, I forgot a spoon. I said, 396 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: I got you. I reached in my backpack gave it 397 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 3: to her. She goes, do you just set up thinking 398 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: of ways to please me? And I said, you know, 399 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 3: I kind of do. But Zach, it sounds weird. It's 400 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 3: a little bit selfish because I get a lot of 401 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: joy when I can anticipate her need and meet it. Now, 402 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 3: she would want me to say that she's up the game. 403 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: Instead of a plastic spoon, it's going to be a 404 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 3: bamboo spoon. But you know, but just recognizing here's a 405 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 3: need and then she can help me meet that need 406 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: even better. 407 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the idea. 408 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 2: When you're pursuing what makes you holy, it often in 409 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: turn makes you the most happy as well. 410 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: Because kindness, I mean, heh boy. If people would just 411 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 3: think what makes you feel better an act of kindness 412 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: or an act of selfishness, connecting intimately because you share 413 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: something where you're vulnerable, or line to your spouse, finding 414 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: a way to give to your spouse, or manipulating your 415 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 3: spouse to take from your spouse. If we would just 416 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 3: step back, it's not even a debate, it's not a contest. 417 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: But we just got that natural person. Love me like 418 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 3: I want to be loved, Do what I want you 419 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: to do, don't do what I don't want you to do, 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: and we make ourselves miserable. And what's been wonderful. When 421 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 3: Lisa and I are working with a couple, we just 422 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 3: do pastoral counseling. We're not therapeutic counselors. But so often 423 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 3: afterwards we say, yeah, let's just skip that you're the 424 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 3: couple that had an affair or one is doing I mean, 425 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: because you see the misery it causes, and you realize 426 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 3: how holiness protects our happiness. Holiness leads to joy, sin 427 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 3: leads to regret, and again on that's not just sin 428 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: of doing the wrong thing, but sin of not growing 429 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 3: in the right things. 430 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: Wow, you know, it's interesting. 431 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: Something that God has really placed on my heart, my 432 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: dad's heart recently is a lot of the research and 433 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 2: the literature around human flourishing and the different pathways that 434 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: can help us flourish in life. And you've nailed just 435 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: a couple of them already, in kindness and gratitude, but 436 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 2: also forgiveness, also connectivity and community. It's fascinating because really 437 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: the flourishing life is the faith filled life. You know, Gary, 438 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: We've talked a little bit about selfishness and entitlement and 439 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: how that can rob us of our deeper connection with 440 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: God and other people. But another thing that comes to 441 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: mind is not just selfishness, but also speed, the pace 442 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 2: and the pressures of life. Gary, I'm just looking at, 443 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 2: you know, a cell phone here for a moment. We 444 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: live in such a preoccu by culture and society that 445 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 2: I think it robs us of those intimate moments with 446 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: one another and with God. And I just would be 447 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 2: interested in hearing from your pastoral counseling experience sitting down 448 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: with couples. How have you even seen some of the 449 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: technology advancements in all the heightened distractions and culture today 450 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: rob us of that intimacy we were created for. 451 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: I would go a little bit deeper and say the 452 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 3: reason speed has a hold on us is because we're 453 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 3: pursuing the wrong things. We don't believe what the Bible 454 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: says will make us happy. Proverbs sixteen sixteen says wisdom 455 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,959 Speaker 3: is better than gold, and understanding is better than silver. 456 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: Zach. 457 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: If we were to go into churches and ask them, 458 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 3: if I look at your life and your effort, are 459 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 3: you focused more on trying to become richer saving up 460 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 3: for your retirement number? Are you more concerned about becoming wiser? 461 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 3: If we were to talk to a lot of the women, 462 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: are you more concerned about looking younger than you are 463 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 3: or becoming wiser than you are? Talk to a lot 464 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 3: of the younger people. Do you think happiness comes from 465 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: being entertained more often or building your mind toward wisdom. 466 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 3: It's one of those lies where I don't think people 467 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: believe that God says, then he says and proverbs for 468 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: that wisdom will cherish, cherish, wisdom shall honor you. She'll 469 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: put a garland around your head, She'll lift you up, 470 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 3: she will exalt you. I don't think we believe that 471 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 3: we're after the money. We're after the physical impression. And 472 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 3: when I'm living to look younger than I am, I'm 473 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: living to impress others. And that's a I mean, that's 474 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 3: a lot of work. It's a lot of effort when 475 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 3: I'm living to become wiser. I'm living so that I 476 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: can serve others. Why do we want to be wise 477 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: so that we could be a fountain of wisdom for others. 478 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 3: So instead of trying to impress others, you're trying to 479 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 3: serve others. So I think if we would live by 480 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 3: biblical values of service, grow in wisdom, a lot of 481 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 3: the things that were chasing for we just stopped. We 482 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: just stopped that. It doesn't matter what people say about us, 483 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what they're pursuing. A passage from Acts, 484 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 3: it's later in Acts. I think it might be twenty six. 485 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 3: That might be wrong. That just really shaped my life 486 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 3: is when Paul appeared before Agrippa, the second in Bernice 487 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 3: and Agrippa comes in as this larger than life figure. 488 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 3: He was good at sucking up to Rome, so he 489 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: had a couple decades ahead of living the cushiest life, 490 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: the life most of us want, where everybody was impressed 491 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 3: by him. He had the power to kill people or 492 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 3: set him free. He had the money, He lived in 493 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 3: the best places. He was esteemed and respected. He was 494 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 3: not a godly man. Bernice A lot of people don't 495 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,959 Speaker 3: realize that wasn't actually his wife. She was his sister. 496 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: But they lived together, and yeah, there were rumors. I mean, 497 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 3: it was usually kind of a mess up play. So 498 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: you bring in the Apostle Paul. This is months before 499 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 3: he dies, emaciated. If he took off his shirt, you'd vomit. 500 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: Looking at his back. He'd received the forty lashes minus one, 501 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: five times, no money. He smells he's coming from the dungeon. 502 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 3: I mean, the guy looks pathetic. And the Pharisees are 503 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 3: trying to get Paul out, saying, rid the earth of him. 504 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: He's not fit to live, which so the popular claim 505 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 3: is Paul isn't fit to live, which I think is 506 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 3: the dumbest opinion in the pantheon of dumbest opinions. How 507 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: many of us wish Paul had written twice what he did. 508 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 3: If I wanted any man to have a longer life, 509 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: it would be the apostle Paul. And they're saying, no, 510 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 3: we want a Grippa to end it. And so you 511 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 3: would look at that picture and you would say, Paul 512 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: has lost it's a pathetic life. He's gonna die. Agrippa 513 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 3: has all the power and fame, and yet you go 514 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 3: forward two thousand years. I don't think this is hyperbole. 515 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 3: I don't think a minute goes by in the world 516 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 3: when Paul's words aren't being read, memorized, studied, or preached on. 517 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: You know, think about it. I mean, when I stand 518 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 3: up in a church and I say, Paul said, everybody 519 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 3: knows what I'm talking about. If I stand up at 520 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 3: a public university as well as a grip of the 521 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 3: second said, everybody's like, who's Agrippa. The only reason we 522 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 3: know about agrip A second is because of this interaction 523 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 3: with the apostle Paul, who we thought had lost. And 524 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: that's the power of the Gospel. We focus on a 525 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: life that is rich toward God, the things that God values. 526 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 3: Achieving the earthly glory and the earthly beauty and the 527 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: earthly power wipes us out and it goes. It dies 528 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 3: when we do. But living for eternal goods resulting Jesus's 529 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: name instead of our own, that's what will have impact. 530 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 3: Thousands of years from now. People won't remember us like 531 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: they remember Paul, but God will. And if we're living 532 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 3: for that, well done, my good and faithful servant, that's 533 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 3: what we want to hear. Yes, not what people say 534 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: about us on X Yes, not how many books people buy. 535 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 3: It's that one person's opinion. You did good, what I 536 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 3: gave you good? Good job? 537 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: That's right. 538 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: The aim is not to impress others. The aim or 539 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: the ambition for St. Thessalonians four eleven is to live 540 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: a quiet life, to live a faithful life, to serve 541 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: other people with every day that we have on this 542 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: side of eternity. I did just want to ask another question, 543 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: just unpacking this one, but because I do sit across 544 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: from a lot of people Gary who they're in difficult marriages, 545 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: difficult relationships, they're in for a tough go, and you know, 546 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: there is such a thing as loving people through hardship, 547 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: right perseverance, and there needs to be the question that's asked, 548 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: is someone like you, sir, how do we decipher for 549 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: the difference between tough and toxic in marriages? 550 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I think especially marriage. You know, I've written 551 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 3: about abuse. I did the book When to Walk Away, 552 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 3: and I've come out saying I don't want the church 553 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 3: to encourage women to stay in toxic or abusive marriages 554 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 3: that are destroying their souls. Certainly that is destroying their bodies. 555 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 3: James Street two says, we all stumble in many ways. 556 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: Nobody gets to marry the fourth member of the trinity. 557 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 3: That person doesn't exist. So we're gonna be hurt by 558 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: each other. We will hurt each other, but there's a difference. 559 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: I think the line is safety right and I think 560 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 3: safety insanity are two things. When you've got a toxic 561 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 3: person who makes you feel like you are losing your mind, 562 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 3: with lies, with manipulation, cheating on you, gaslighting you when 563 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: you're seeing what's true, just to keep you there as 564 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 3: a tool of manipulation. Zach, I know you've seen this 565 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 3: in the counseling room. The destruction it does is horrific. 566 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: It keeps them from their call to seek first the 567 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 3: Kingdom of God. They lose all sense of self confidence. 568 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Why would 569 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 3: I I share my faith? I don't have anything to give. 570 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 3: I don't have anything to offer to others. I man, 571 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: I've spent my life trying to help marriages grow and 572 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 3: stay together. When two people are repentant and surrendered to 573 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,479 Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit. I've seen God forgive some of the 574 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,239 Speaker 3: worst offenses imaginable and use the pathway of forgiveness and 575 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: repentance to help them grow. But I think we make 576 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 3: an idol out of marriage when we allow it to 577 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 3: be used as a vehicle to destroy people. And I'll 578 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: just be honest. Early on, like when I first wrote 579 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: Sacred Marriage, I just think I was naive. I hadn't 580 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: served as a pastor, and the kinds of churches where 581 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 3: I serve at now where I didn't realize there are 582 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 3: some people who get off on being evil, who enjoy manipulating. 583 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 3: They don't want to have a healthy marriage where they 584 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 3: encourage each other, where they love each other, where they 585 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 3: serve each other. They see marriage as a platform to 586 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 3: abuse because it's a unique platform that gives them power 587 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 3: to do that. I think as Christians we have to 588 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 3: stand against evil, yes, and so when we try to 589 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: preserve a platform that has become a platform for evil, 590 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: that's when I think we've gone too far. And there's 591 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: a chapter in there that may shock people most the 592 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 3: lie of family. First. I look again, I've spent my 593 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: life trying to help people focus on their marriage and 594 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 3: grow in their marriage. But it's shocking how Jesus warns 595 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 3: us that sometimes faith will come between a husband and wife, 596 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: faith will come between a parent and a child, and 597 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 3: when that happens, Jesus says, you always choose faith. We 598 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 3: can make an idol out of our family. And I 599 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 3: think earlier on, when I was much younger, it was 600 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: a great call that people were ignoring the call to 601 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 3: prioritize marriage, ignoring the call to prioritize parenting. But I 602 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 3: do think there was like a twenty year period there 603 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 3: where we went from that to the op opposite extreme 604 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 3: of almost idolizing it. And so single people who weren't 605 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 3: married felt like second class citizens in the church because 606 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 3: we'd say things and I would say this, well, the 607 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 3: most important thing you can do for the Kingdom of 608 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 3: God is to raise kids. And look, I think that's 609 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: one of the greatest gifts you can give to God. 610 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 3: But what are you saying to a single person who 611 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: will never have kids, or to two faithful parents who 612 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: have kids who aren't faithful. And so I come up 613 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 3: with the question to kind of push back on this, 614 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 3: what was the name of Moses's son? You know it 615 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 3: starts with a G. No, I don't think one out 616 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: of ten thousand it's girsham, Oh, we know it is this. 617 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: Are we going to say that Moses giving birth to 618 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 3: Gersham or conceiving Gershaon is more significant than all that 619 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 3: God did using him, setting Israel free, the Ten Commandments, 620 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 3: setting him up for the Promised Land, training Joshua. Maybe 621 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 3: in God's eyes, maybe yes, but not necessarily. And so 622 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 3: I don't want to diminish marriage, and I don't want 623 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 3: to diminish the importance of parenting. If a guy is 624 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: ignoring his marriage and his kids to build a mega 625 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 3: church because it's based on ambition, I think that offends God. 626 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 3: But we've got to be careful that Jesus prioritizes the 627 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 3: kingdom of God. When somebody said to him, you know, 628 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 3: blessed are the is the womb that bore you and 629 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 3: the breast that nursed you, because they thought back then 630 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 3: the greatest call of a woman was to become the 631 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 3: mother of a messiah, and Jesus pushed back, no, Blessed 632 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 3: rather are those who hear the word of God and 633 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 3: obey it. I just want to call us back to that, 634 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 3: not to ignore our marriages and parenting, but to recognize 635 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 3: that we have to emphasize faith first. 636 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 2: I love that faith first, right, then family, friendship things 637 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 2: like that can come second. But again, they cannot become 638 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: idols that take the place of a relationship and intimacy 639 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 2: with God. 640 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Gary. How I want to wrap up. 641 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 2: Today's conversation is, I'm just thinking of somebody an audience 642 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 2: member out there today, a man or a woman who 643 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: finds themselves in a season of discouragement, season of disappointment. 644 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: They're frustrated with their relationship. Gary. 645 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 2: They're coming to you and your bride and they're asking you, guys, 646 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: they're pointing the finger at one another. 647 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: There's just been so much that's gone on. 648 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: There might have been a lot of toxicity in their 649 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: relationship up to this point. But what's just a final 650 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 2: word of hope, encouragement, and motivation that would remind that 651 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 2: person today of living the life that they were reborn 652 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 2: to live. 653 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 3: Well doing pastoral counseling, and you're even better because you 654 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 3: can do therapey to counseling. I'm always looking for the 655 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 3: lie that they're believing that I can point out, and 656 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 3: I think in discarding that then they can start to 657 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 3: live by the truth. So that's individual. So I hate 658 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 3: to give a general answer but if I'm forced to 659 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 3: give a general answer, I would go back to Matthew 660 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 3: six thirty three. Seek first the kingdom of God and 661 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 3: his righteousness, and all these things will be added unto 662 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 3: you as well. I'm saying, are you seeking first God's 663 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 3: kingdom above your own? Are you consumed with frustration because 664 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 3: you're not getting richer, You're not getting more powerful, you're 665 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 3: not getting more famous, You're not having more happy experiences 666 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 3: or whatnot. Are you living a selfish life and expecting 667 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 3: that a selfish life can fulfill you? Because it can't. 668 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I've known some very successful people that are 669 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 3: astonished when they succeed, how unfulfilling success can be. And 670 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 3: then his righteousness. Are you being made miserable because you're 671 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 3: living a selfish life? You're angry, You're all of this, 672 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 3: And yeah, I think the greatest wise, they should love 673 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 3: me just as I am. There are some things about 674 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 3: myself my wife should not love. I mean, there's some 675 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 3: things I need to grow out of. And she's my 676 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 3: sister in Christ and I should welcome her instead of this, 677 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 3: You've just got to accept me as a full package. 678 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 3: I'm not a finished package, that's right, sanctification is a process. 679 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 3: I want to admit, Yeah, I think you can do 680 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 3: a little bit better there, and to call me up 681 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 3: to something better. And so I think if people will 682 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 3: focus on purpose and righteousness, I think that we'll start 683 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 3: to put their marriage in the right direction. So I'll 684 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 3: say to couples, don't worry about falling out of love. 685 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 3: You know there's infatuation about a twelve to eighteen month thing. 686 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 3: Don't worry about falling out of love. Worry about falling 687 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: out of purpose. And then don't worry about falling out 688 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 3: of love, worry about falling out of repentance. Wow, because 689 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 3: it's a lack of purpose and a lack of repentance 690 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,439 Speaker 3: that will bring most marriages down. 691 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: Arry Thomas, that's a word, my friend. Hey, where can 692 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 2: our audience go to find out more about you? To 693 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 2: pick up one of your many best selling books, especially 694 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 2: this one, The Life You Were Reborn to Live? 695 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 3: Well? The two places my website is my name if 696 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 3: they remember the name Gary Thomas dot com, Gary Thomas 697 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 3: dot com. As far as where I interact, it's mostly 698 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 3: on substack. Now as I found that X and Facebook 699 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 3: think that less than one percent of my followers want 700 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 3: to hear from me, So I've just kind of given 701 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 3: up there. My assistant still post, but where I interact 702 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 3: is my Facebook page where they can get to it, 703 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: or at my substack page where they can get to it. 704 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 3: Connect to Gary dot com. Connect to Gary dot com. 705 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 2: Go to that substack page, and Gary Thomas dot com. 706 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 2: Gary Thomas, my friend on behalf of all of us 707 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 2: at the American Association of Christian Counselors. My dad, doctor Tim, myself, 708 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 2: doctor Zach. We're grateful for you, the work that you 709 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 2: have been called to. Thank you for your obedient yes, 710 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 2: and again the impact and influence you continue to have 711 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 2: on my life and in my own marriage. We love 712 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 2: and appreciate you, my friend. Thank you for your time. 713 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 2: Thank you set to all of our build different audience. Again, 714 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 2: I love what Gary just mentioned. You are not a 715 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 2: finished work. We are all a work in progress. We 716 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 2: are all committed to this products of sanctification, becoming more 717 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 2: like Christ. So today commit yourself to growing in your identity, 718 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 2: to living a life of integrity, but also to deepen 719 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 2: your intimacy with God and with one another. To that end, 720 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 2: we'll give God all the honor, glory and praise because 721 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 2: he's the only one worthy of those things. Thank you 722 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: so much for joining us. We hope you have a 723 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 2: great rest of your day. We love being a part 724 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 2: of your life.