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Speaker 1: Coming up on Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: And it got bad. It got dark. And I got

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Speaker 2: so addicted. I was to the point, I was finishing

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Speaker 2: bottles of whiskey over the weekend. And I was probably

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Speaker 2: spending upwards of $ 1, 000 a month on alcohol. And that's

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Speaker 2: probably an average. I definitely went above that sometimes. And

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Speaker 2: then Abby bought some Everclear to try to make hand

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Speaker 2: sanitizer with. And I was spiking my sweet tea with it.

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Speaker 2: A couple of times, I actually took straight pills off

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Speaker 2: of it, drank it, and I don't recommend that. And

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Speaker 2: I was doing this at 10 a.m. in the morning.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was waking up to it. And it

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Speaker 2: was really just a function. And like I said, it

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Speaker 2: would go up and down. There would be days I

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Speaker 2: didn't drink at all. There would be days where I'd

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Speaker 2: just binge, binge, binge for weekends. And it got bad.

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Speaker 1: Hello, hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 1: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel, and I

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Speaker 1: am the Christian who became.

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Speaker 3: An alcoholic, not the other way around.

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Speaker 1: Here, we get radically vulnerable about addiction, recovery, messy sanctification,

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Speaker 1: and all the things we turn to instead of Jesus

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Speaker 1: because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw, honest

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Speaker 1: conversations from those who have struggled, those who help those

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Speaker 1: who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety

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Speaker 1: thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's get

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Speaker 1: right into this week's episode.

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Speaker 3: So I have a friend.

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Speaker 1: His name is Ian Faulkner. And if you follow me

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Speaker 1: on social media, maybe you've seen him and me together.

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Speaker 1: I actually met him online and– for the first time

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Speaker 1: met him in person last year at a conference. He

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Speaker 1: runs a recovery ministry out in Mission Viejo, California, which

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Speaker 1: is Orange County. He's been on this podcast. In fact,

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Speaker 1: you can go listen to his episode. But he says

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Speaker 1: something that I love. He says, basically, that we should

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Speaker 1: recover loudly in Christ so others don't die quietly without him.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, that phrase is just powerful. And I

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Speaker 1: think it goes to why I don't love the anonymous

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Speaker 1: idea of Alcoholics Anonymous, right? Like, I think our stories

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Speaker 1: are meant to be told. And today's guest is an

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Speaker 1: example of why. And, you know, I think there are

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Speaker 1: people that God puts in our path. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the time, you don't really understand why, and they

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Speaker 1: probably don't know. But then it kind of comes into

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Speaker 1: focus later. And today's guest, Doug Johnson, is one such person.

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Speaker 1: So years before I finally got sober, Doug had started

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Speaker 1: talking about his own struggles and posting them on Facebook

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Speaker 1: and talking about getting sober. And I watched from a

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Speaker 1: distance and I remember thinking, dang, like that is the

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Speaker 1: stuff that he was saying, the stuff that he was

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Speaker 1: talking about. was really speaking to me. And yet I,

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Speaker 1: of course, was not yet ready to admit my own

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Speaker 1: struggle in my own problem. But Doug saying what he said,

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Speaker 1: I think is some of the earliest memories I have

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Speaker 1: of the Holy Spirit stirring in me. I think in the,

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Speaker 1: or I should say the earliest memories in that, in

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Speaker 1: that kind of what I call that severe slide period.

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Speaker 1: of the Holy Spirit really stirred in me like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you really do have a problem. And Doug would never

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Speaker 1: know it, right? He was just being faithful. And God

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Speaker 1: was using him during that process. And so it's why

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Speaker 1: I like to talk about my own struggle. I boast

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Speaker 1: in my weakness. It's why so many people– I invite

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Speaker 1: so many people on this podcast to share their stories

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Speaker 1: because my hope is that you, if you're listening to

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Speaker 1: this and are struggling, can see yourself or at least

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Speaker 1: at least one aspect of yourself in the story. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm really excited to talk to Doug today and

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Speaker 1: to get his full story. Doug is a teacher. He's

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Speaker 1: a Texan through and through. And he is also the

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Speaker 1: husband of Abby Johnson. Abby Johnson, you may know from

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Speaker 1: her work in the movie Unplanned. That movie is about her.

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Speaker 1: She was the former abortion clinic worker who had a

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Speaker 1: change of heart and realized, oh my gosh, what am

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Speaker 1: I doing? And so Doug is Abby's husband. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: Abby's work kind of factors into it a little bit

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Speaker 1: because Doug is radically vulnerable and he talks about feeling

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Speaker 1: kind of like being overlooked and you know Abby's story

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Speaker 1: starts taking off and he's kind of left he felt

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Speaker 1: like in the shadows and he drank that away and

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Speaker 1: so I also I also want to just honor Abby

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Speaker 1: as well who went through this as the spouse and

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Speaker 1: I know that in talking with my wife, how hard

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Speaker 1: that is.

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Speaker 3: So kudos.

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Speaker 1: And if you are a spouse that's listening to this,

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Speaker 1: I know we have a lot of them know that

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Speaker 1: there's hope. And that's part of Abby's story as well.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk with Doug. Before we get

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Speaker 1: to that, though, I would be honored if you went

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Speaker 1: to VeritasRecovery.org, VeritasRecovery.org. You can find resources. And also, if

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Speaker 1: you could, if you think you could, spare $ 5 to

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Speaker 1: give to keep this ministry going. And that's what this

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Speaker 1: podcast now is a part of, the Ministry of Veritas Recovery,

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Speaker 1: to bring the message of gospel-centered recovery to as many

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Speaker 1: people worldwide. And I say worldwide because as I was

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Speaker 1: made aware when I was speaking at a conference last week,

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Speaker 1: we are in the country of Curaçao now, which is

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Speaker 1: in the Netherlands. We are international through RightNowMedia.com. And the

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Speaker 1: nine video series, we're all addicted to something. And just

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Speaker 1: this past weekend, our Sunday night call, which is free,

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Speaker 1: we have Canadians on there as well. So if you

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Speaker 1: could just spare $ 5 to help this ministry keep going,

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Speaker 1: I would be so, so grateful. So without further ado,

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Speaker 1: Doug Johnson. Doug, thank you for joining the Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I think we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: doing this for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have.

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Speaker 1: And interestingly, I think, and I think I've said this

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Speaker 1: on the podcast before, but originally my book was going

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Speaker 1: to have these stories in the second half. And I

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Speaker 1: interviewed you for one of those stories and then that

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Speaker 1: got cut. And I was like, well, I'll just, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll have them on the podcast. And And so finally,

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Speaker 1: like making good because your story is one. And I

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Speaker 1: think I talked a little bit about this in the intro,

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Speaker 1: but you're being open and honest about your own struggles

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Speaker 1: with alcohol and sharing that, especially on Facebook, was instrumental

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Speaker 1: in my own story. Because I think even though you

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Speaker 1: didn't know it at the time and like it started

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Speaker 1: to stir something within me. It started to make me

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Speaker 1: realize I wasn't alone. And you've written a Facebook post

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Speaker 1: in April just talking about five people who were all

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Speaker 1: Christians that became alcoholics, if you will, for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term. And so there's plenty of us out there,

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Speaker 1: and you helped me realize that.

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Speaker 3: So thank you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, man, my pleasure. So, no, I think it's all,

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Speaker 2: you know, divine, right? I think even the timing, we've

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Speaker 2: been talking about doing this forever and it just so

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Speaker 2: happens I wasn't thinking about it, wasn't thinking about it,

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Speaker 2: not us doing the interview, but sobriety and alcohol abuse

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Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, I

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Speaker 2: see little bits and pieces here and all of a sudden, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about that. And so with those

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Speaker 2: couple posts, the timing of it and being, I'm about

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Speaker 2: a month in or five years in one month or so. almost, uh,

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Speaker 2: haven't touched alcohol. And so it's kind of a good,

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Speaker 2: this is, this is a good way for me to reflect,

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Speaker 2: to have this kind of conversation with you and, and

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Speaker 2: really kind of celebrate just, just what me and so

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Speaker 2: many people like yourself and other people have done. And, and, uh,

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Speaker 2: it's really just life-changing and it's wonderful and fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So let's, you know, let's first start out

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Speaker 1: by saying just a little bit about who you are

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Speaker 1: and what you do, and then I want to get

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Speaker 1: into your story.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Sounds good. So, yeah, I think you did an

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Speaker 2: interview recently with my wife, and I found your interview

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Speaker 2: with her so much fun and so fascinating with Abby

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Speaker 2: Johnson on the Politely Rude podcast, which I think she's

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Speaker 2: about to just go to straight Abby Johnson show. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: everything you talked about— it may seem dark, dark humor.

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Speaker 2: I have a very dark sense of humor, but you

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Speaker 2: talking about floating in your own feces and vomit in

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Speaker 2: the ocean cracked me up because we all have those stories.

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Speaker 2: There are war stories, you know, and they're like, you

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Speaker 2: talk about radical vulnerability and being able to come together

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Speaker 2: with other people that struggled with alcohol that have very

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Speaker 2: similar stories. I flooded my house because I fell asleep

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Speaker 2: on the drain of a shower. Like, and that's embarrassing

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Speaker 2: to say out loud. Can you like, Nobody gets to say,

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Speaker 2: that out loud except people who struggle with alcohol and

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Speaker 2: addiction and stuff like that. We have these horrific stories,

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Speaker 2: but it's easier for us to laugh at them when

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Speaker 2: we come together and they just, they become our little like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I knew something was wrong when I flooded my house

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Speaker 2: or you swam in your own poo and being, you know, and,

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Speaker 2: And so listening to that interview was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: So my wife is a pro-life public speaker, national known.

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Speaker 2: We had a movie come out called Unplanned. People can

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Speaker 2: go Google that and find out lots of fun stuff.

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Speaker 2: And so I was a stay-at-home dad for about 14 years.

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Speaker 2: And now I'm teaching at my kid's Catholic school. We

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Speaker 2: have eight kiddos aging from 19 down to six. So

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Speaker 2: I've got one in college and one in kindergarten. So

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Speaker 2: we've got... Quite the spectrum of children. And so I

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Speaker 2: just turned 48. Like I said, I've been about five

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Speaker 2: years sober. Excuse me.

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Speaker 3: And I don't... Live in the great state of Texas.

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Speaker 2: Live in Texas. The Republic of Texas. We live kind

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Speaker 2: of north of Austin a little bit, kind of that area.

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Speaker 2: So we're in the blue dot. I'm actually probably in

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Speaker 2: the sea of red that borders the blue dot. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're in a great little area. Best tacos and barbecue

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Speaker 2: you're ever going to find in the world right here. Yeah. Yeah, anyway.

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Speaker 3: It really is. It really is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that background. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's just kind of transition to your story.

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Speaker 1: I think I first... You first it was maybe four

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Speaker 1: years ago where because I think you kind of really

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Speaker 1: came out about your struggle like one year sober. I

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Speaker 1: remember seeing your kind of one year sober post.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably announced it around and then I kind of

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Speaker 2: every once in a while talk about it. And then

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Speaker 2: one year is when I really started diving into it. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that that probably tracks. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So bring us, so bring us back, like bring

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Speaker 1: us back to, I mean, as far as you want

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Speaker 1: to go, but what was your relationship with alcohol?

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Speaker 3: What did it look like? How bad did it get?

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Speaker 1: And then what, what finally led to breaking free?

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Well, you know, I saw a guy talking about, um,

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Speaker 2: I didn't, I didn't have this verbiage five, six, seven, eight,

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Speaker 2: 20 years ago. Right. And so, um, you know, I,

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Speaker 2: like everybody else, you know, in college, you just kind

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Speaker 2: of start drinking because it's available. And then, uh, I

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Speaker 2: was like, man, this doesn't taste good. Bud Light is gross.

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Speaker 2: Why am I drinking this? You know? And then, uh,

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Speaker 2: so I started looking for beer that tasted good and

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Speaker 2: I found it. I found lots of great craft beers

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Speaker 2: that taste great. And I started getting into, um, uh, liquor, like, uh,

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Speaker 2: I really liked whiskey and bourbon and, uh, tequila and

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Speaker 2: certain things, just certain drinks were like, man, this is great.

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Speaker 2: And then there's a, I don't want to just dump

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Speaker 2: on alcohol all the time. Like I had some great times.

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Speaker 2: I had some good fun with my friends. We had

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Speaker 2: great camaraderie in and involved alcohol, but eventually, um, and what,

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Speaker 2: what I was, this guy was talking about, he's like,

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Speaker 2: alcohol isn't the, uh, the disease. A lot of times it's,

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Speaker 2: it's the cure, like whatever you're feeling bad. Like they

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Speaker 2: got to a point, like I'm stay, I'm a stay

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Speaker 2: at home dad. My wife sat on the road, super

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Speaker 2: famous and nobody seems to want to talk to me.

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Speaker 2: The only one I want to talk to her. And,

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Speaker 2: And she's gone while I'm sitting here wiping the butts

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Speaker 2: of these kids. And resentment kicks in. And resentment for

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Speaker 2: her kicked in, too. She's like, I'm gone away. I

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Speaker 2: don't get to see my kids. And you're at home

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Speaker 2: getting wasted. And so resentment is a marriage killer. It really,

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Speaker 2: really is. And so resentment fueled my need for alcohol.

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Speaker 2: And then the alcohol became so I could really just

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Speaker 2: kind of. Enjoy myself.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I like with that guy said it

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Speaker 2: became the cure, like whatever you want to feel numb to,

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Speaker 2: like if you've been abused or whatever, whatever that you're

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Speaker 2: feeling that you don't want to feel anymore. Alcohol kind

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Speaker 2: of becomes the cure. And of course, your brain gets

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Speaker 2: all rewired and you get addicted and all that stuff happens.

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Speaker 2: But so kind of as far back as I would

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Speaker 2: go to say. 2019 is when our movie I'm playing

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Speaker 2: came out, you know, and she'd already been traveling for

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Speaker 2: a while and we were up to, we'd had shoot.

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Speaker 2: I know we, she was pregnant with our last one

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Speaker 2: and we had the twins were two. And anyway, it

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Speaker 2: got bad. It got darker in that time. Cause she

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Speaker 2: was gone for an entire month promoting the movie. And

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Speaker 2: I just got real comfortable with being, um, no. And, uh,

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Speaker 2: I really dove into drinking quite a bit because she

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Speaker 2: was gone promoting things. And again, like the resentment kicked

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Speaker 2: in and I was just kind of upset all the time.

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Speaker 2: And then I would get it together. And then it

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Speaker 2: kind of went in waves and ups and downs and

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Speaker 2: probably COVID came along. And I was like, so being Catholic,

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Speaker 2: you know, we have went. And so for Lynn, I

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Speaker 2: decided to give up alcohols. I really need to like,

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Speaker 2: I need to like see what sobriety feels like and

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Speaker 2: give it a true go. And, uh, but then whenever

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Speaker 2: it was spring break, I remember it, it was our

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Speaker 2: spring break and all of this stuff kind of like, okay,

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Speaker 2: we're shutting the country down. All of Abby's, um, events

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Speaker 2: went away. We ended up doing, um, what is it?

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Speaker 2: We wouldn't pick people's groceries up for him. What, wherever

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Speaker 2: that app was, uh, you know, So, but it wasn't

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Speaker 2: just me and my eight kids stuck at home and Addie.

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Speaker 2: She had a habit of letting strangers or people live

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Speaker 2: with us. So it was us, plus another 20-something-year-old woman

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Speaker 2: and her two-year-old child, plus an 18-year-old girl who'd kind

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Speaker 2: of nannied for us and her parents were getting divorced,

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Speaker 2: and another girl who got kicked out of her college

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Speaker 2: and her parents wouldn't let her come home. So it

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Speaker 2: was five extra people in our home, stuck, can't go outside.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Addie, before we go home, we're going

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Speaker 2: to pick up some beer. And that was it. Like

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Speaker 2: it was, there was nothing else to do. It was

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Speaker 2: pure boredom. So boredom, resentment. Now I've got these fuel

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Speaker 2: fueling the alcohol abuse and it got bad. It got dark.

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Speaker 2: And I, I got so addicted. I was to the point.

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Speaker 2: I was finishing bottles of whiskey over the weekend and

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Speaker 2: I was buying, I was probably spending upwards of a

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month on alcohol. Um, And that's probably

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Speaker 2: an average. I definitely went above that sometimes. And then

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Speaker 2: I was, Abby bought some Everclear to try to make

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Speaker 2: hand sanitizer with. And I was spiking my sweet tea

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Speaker 2: with it. A couple of times I actually took straight

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Speaker 2: tools off of it, drank it. And I don't recommend that.

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Speaker 2: That's a good way to clean out your insides. But

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Speaker 2: it was rough. I was just, and I was doing

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Speaker 2: this at 10 a.m. in the morning. You know, I

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Speaker 2: was waking up to it. And so and it was

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Speaker 2: really just a function. And like I said, it would

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Speaker 2: go up and down. There would be days I didn't

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Speaker 2: drink at all. There'd be days where I just binge, binge,

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Speaker 2: binge or weekends. And it got bad.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: Right. Like, because even though I mean, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: it in terms of abuse and addiction. And yet, how

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Speaker 1: many times did I in my life say, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: not drinking alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Every day.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to drink every day. I mean, towards

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Speaker 1: the end, I was right. But I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, that comparison game that we play. Right. So

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Speaker 1: you're like, hey, I mean, there were days I wasn't drinking.

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Speaker 1: And yet look at what you were doing. Right.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, man, I just wish we would see that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember I was probably like a sophomore in

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Speaker 2: college and I was taking a psychology class. And somebody

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Speaker 2: came in that was an expert on alcohol abuse, which

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Speaker 2: was probably great for this teacher to allow her to

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Speaker 2: come in, especially to a bunch of 18, 19, 20

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Speaker 2: year olds experimenting with alcohol in a class. And some

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Speaker 2: girl asked, like, my roommate drinks this much. Is she

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Speaker 2: an alcoholic? She goes, it's not defined so much by

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Speaker 2: how you drink, but how it impacts your life. You know,

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Speaker 2: because there were years that probably went two or three

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Speaker 2: years where I drank every day straight. Didn't miss a day.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean I was binging the most during

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Speaker 2: that time. And it probably had the least amount of

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Speaker 2: effect on my life. So, yeah, I was drinking every day.

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Speaker 2: But was I impacted by it as much as I

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Speaker 2: was when I wasn't drinking every day? But when I

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Speaker 2: was drinking, I was drinking copious amounts. And it did

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Speaker 2: have a profound effect on my ability to be a dad,

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Speaker 2: a husband, a human, anything. And so it really– I

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Speaker 2: always kept that in the back of my head. Like, well,

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Speaker 2: this is definitely impacting my life. I've got a problem.

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Speaker 2: And then it was– Constant apologizing for my hygiene. It's

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Speaker 2: getting better for about a month and then diving right

334
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Speaker 2: back into it or just whatever the case would be.

335
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Speaker 2: Things would just come and go. And I just could

336
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Speaker 2: not get it together. And then so how I quit.

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Speaker 3: What was Abby seeing or noticing at this point?

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Speaker 2: So she'd be like, if I had had one beer

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Speaker 2: and we got any kind of argument, it's because I

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00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:22,730
Speaker 2: was drunk and I may not have been. And it

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Speaker 2: was just like she pretty much just expected that I

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Speaker 2: was always impaired. Because I was so consistently holding alcohol.

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Speaker 2: And so I remember when our kids were born, there

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Speaker 2: was a bar across the street from the hospital. Hey,

345
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Speaker 2: I'm going to go get us something to eat. And

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Speaker 2: she knew where I was going and what I was

347
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Speaker 2: going to be doing. And I'd come back and there

348
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Speaker 2: would just be silence. A lot of the time, she

349
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Speaker 2: just kind of left me to it. It was a

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Speaker 2: lot more body language than actual communication. words with her

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Speaker 2: and i could just tell she was upset and um

352
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Speaker 2: we're annoyed and sometimes she'd lay into me uh whenever

353
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Speaker 2: we had the big freeze here in texas or right

354
00:20:01,290 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 2: after covid during that covid time um I did something.

355
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:08,340
Speaker 2: What did I do? We were going, we were going

356
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Speaker 2: to go outside and have a fire out in the

357
00:20:09,619 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: middle of the street with all the neighbors, but I

358
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 2: had already gotten too drunk before we went out there.

359
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,210
Speaker 2: I came back inside. I did some, I tripped over something.

360
00:20:17,230 --> 00:20:19,149
Speaker 2: I fell backwards and we had like one of those

361
00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:21,930
Speaker 2: barn doors on our bathroom, knocked that off on top

362
00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 2: of myself. It was straight out of like a three

363
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,700
Speaker 2: stooges comedy. It was just this over the top ball

364
00:20:29,740 --> 00:20:32,290
Speaker 2: that I had. And she looked at me, She cursed

365
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:34,219
Speaker 2: me a little bit. She's like, do not get out

366
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Speaker 2: of that bed till tomorrow morning. Like go to bed.

367
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Speaker 2: Don't even take your clothes off. Just get in bed. And,

368
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: and don't look at me, talk to me, think about me, nothing. And, uh,

369
00:20:43,660 --> 00:20:45,830
Speaker 2: I don't think I drank for like a week straight.

370
00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:48,369
Speaker 2: I was so embarrassed. But then again, like, but then

371
00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:51,330
Speaker 2: it still comes back. Like there was no reason to

372
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Speaker 2: like fully stop for me. And so she wanted me to,

373
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Speaker 2: and then there were times she'd be, I was just, okay. So, uh,

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Speaker 2: she wanted me to be able to enjoy beer, like

375
00:21:03,690 --> 00:21:06,190
Speaker 2: have a drink. She just didn't want me to abuse

376
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 2: it so badly that I think that was really her

377
00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:10,620
Speaker 2: message to me. Like, I want you to be happy.

378
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 2: I know you enjoy this and I want you to

379
00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 2: be able to enjoy it, but God, you're such an ass.

380
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Speaker 2: Stop it. And so, uh, and I went from fun,

381
00:21:19,460 --> 00:21:22,220
Speaker 2: silly drunk to obnoxious, falling down drunk. And I think

382
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:25,590
Speaker 2: that's when it was like, Doug, get it together. Like,

383
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Speaker 2: And then people would come over to hang out and

384
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Speaker 2: they'd be leaving early because, oh, Doug's at it again.

385
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Speaker 2: And so, and these were my friends that stopped drinking

386
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Speaker 2: before me. These were my sober friends. And I'm so

387
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:40,430
Speaker 2: thankful for them because they never stopped being my friend.

388
00:21:40,869 --> 00:21:44,290
Speaker 2: They were always there, but they held me accountable by leading,

389
00:21:44,850 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: being like, I can't be around you when you're like this.

390
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:49,820
Speaker 2: They'd come back in hopes that I would act right

391
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Speaker 2: the next time, but then they'd leave whenever I'd kind

392
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:53,820
Speaker 2: of act out. Yeah.

393
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Speaker 1: What do you feel like– because as a person of

394
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Speaker 1: deep faith, what are you telling yourself– you know, cause

395
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:08,470
Speaker 1: I think that that's one thing that is hard for

396
00:22:08,609 --> 00:22:09,550
Speaker 1: other people to understand.

397
00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:11,300
Speaker 3: And I'll be honest, like sometimes it's hard for me

398
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 3: to understand.

399
00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:16,020
Speaker 1: Right. And, and what I remember one person asking me like, Oh,

400
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: so like you were just living a double life. And

401
00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not that clean and simple. Right. It's

402
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,700
Speaker 1: not like I was like, I'm going to be this

403
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: person here. And this person here, there was a lot

404
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:31,300
Speaker 1: of justification. There was a lot of like, well it's

405
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,899
Speaker 1: maybe it's my thorn in my like what are you

406
00:22:33,980 --> 00:22:36,220
Speaker 1: telling yourself as a person of deep faith who then

407
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,700
Speaker 1: is doing and you know things that the bible prohibits.

408
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,620
Speaker 2: Uh i think i'm like well this is the last

409
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:47,090
Speaker 2: time this will be my last straw i probably had

410
00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:48,649
Speaker 2: about 50 000 last straws you know what i mean

411
00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:52,070
Speaker 2: you keep telling yourself and it's that shame that kicks

412
00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:53,990
Speaker 2: in and i don't i don't think shame's as bad

413
00:22:54,010 --> 00:22:56,070
Speaker 2: a thing as people want to say it is i

414
00:22:56,109 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: think it's a natural emotion to feel when you know

415
00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: you're doing something wrong. I just felt it for a

416
00:23:00,940 --> 00:23:05,580
Speaker 2: long time. And, uh, I got, yeah, you know, I

417
00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 2: was still going to church regularly and I guess that's,

418
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,660
Speaker 2: that's probably what it was, was I knew I could

419
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:14,430
Speaker 2: drink myself silly till two o'clock in the morning, go

420
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:18,490
Speaker 2: to bed, get up first, mow the grass, take a shower,

421
00:23:18,530 --> 00:23:20,950
Speaker 2: have everybody ready for church and go. And still, and

422
00:23:21,109 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 2: I was like, look, I'm still, I'm Superman over here.

423
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: Look what I can do. Like I, if it's not

424
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,659
Speaker 2: impacting me where I can't get my family to church,

425
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,530
Speaker 2: where I can't set it and talk to them and

426
00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:35,430
Speaker 2: still kind of lead, like walk my faith. I'm just

427
00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:37,430
Speaker 2: doing it with a little stumble, I guess, because I'm drunk.

428
00:23:37,530 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: But deep down, you know, what you're doing is wrong.

429
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,180
Speaker 2: And it's a bad example for your kids and a

430
00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: bad example for other people. And I'm probably causing other

431
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: people to stumble and that sort of thing. And so I.

432
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:49,900
Speaker 1: Guess.

433
00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:52,770
Speaker 2: In the end when I did decide to stop drinking,

434
00:23:52,790 --> 00:23:56,230
Speaker 2: it just became about hyper accountability. I was like, I

435
00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:59,650
Speaker 2: have to take accountability for everything. Even like the stuff

436
00:23:59,670 --> 00:24:01,889
Speaker 2: that isn't necessarily my fault. I'll say it is my

437
00:24:01,930 --> 00:24:04,290
Speaker 2: fault because I wasn't present and paying attention to stop

438
00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:05,310
Speaker 2: this thing from happening.

439
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:06,310
Speaker 1: Right.

440
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:09,970
Speaker 2: Like whatever feelings somebody had about me or whatever somebody

441
00:24:10,010 --> 00:24:13,179
Speaker 2: else got into around me, I just, I kind of

442
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: just took it on as, as that being my cross

443
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,570
Speaker 2: to carry as I got sober. Like I'm going to,

444
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: not fix all these things, but I'm going to lead

445
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: by example, like, and, and suffer through this because suffering

446
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,770
Speaker 2: is not a bad thing is it is what brings

447
00:24:28,830 --> 00:24:31,050
Speaker 2: us closer to Christ. You know, it's, it's when we're

448
00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:34,820
Speaker 2: at our weakest and rock bottom and you finally acknowledge it.

449
00:24:34,869 --> 00:24:35,090
Speaker 1: Right.

450
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:38,570
Speaker 2: And so suffering is this wonderful gift. I think that

451
00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:41,910
Speaker 2: we have, it comes with free will, you know, can't,

452
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:42,990
Speaker 2: can't bring.

453
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:49,570
Speaker 1: Us back to the, like what, what finally, Was the

454
00:24:49,619 --> 00:24:51,750
Speaker 1: final straw, you know, in one of these posts that

455
00:24:51,770 --> 00:24:56,150
Speaker 1: I was referencing, you kind of reference in a beautiful way.

456
00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:56,790
Speaker 3: Like you kind of.

457
00:24:56,970 --> 00:25:01,109
Speaker 1: Retell the story of your wife, in a sense, grabbing

458
00:25:01,150 --> 00:25:03,129
Speaker 1: you by the face, not out of anger, but out

459
00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:05,889
Speaker 1: of just like, I love you and I want something

460
00:25:06,050 --> 00:25:09,260
Speaker 1: better for you. What was what what got you to

461
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:10,889
Speaker 1: that point? And then tell that story.

462
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,500
Speaker 2: So, again, it is the up and down drinking. And

463
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily one of my downs. But so my mom,

464
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,139
Speaker 2: I had a friend, she'd been about a year sober.

465
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,620
Speaker 2: Her name's Christy, one of my best friend's wives. He's

466
00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:32,850
Speaker 2: a cop here in Austin. And she had a bit

467
00:25:32,869 --> 00:25:34,970
Speaker 2: of a drinking problem. And it was like three or

468
00:25:34,990 --> 00:25:38,730
Speaker 2: four beers and 15 minutes. And she'd hide her alcohol.

469
00:25:38,810 --> 00:25:41,229
Speaker 2: And I was doing the same thing. We had almost

470
00:25:41,470 --> 00:25:45,210
Speaker 2: identical habits. But she quit before me. And it was

471
00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:49,670
Speaker 2: a marriage saver for them. And, um, so right about

472
00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:52,550
Speaker 2: the time, like I kept asking her, I was like,

473
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:55,410
Speaker 2: what did you do? Like, I kept inquiring, probably something,

474
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:58,230
Speaker 2: you probably did similar things when you're leading up to quitting. Like,

475
00:25:58,890 --> 00:26:01,330
Speaker 2: I really kind of like hooking people like, Hmm, tell

476
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:04,170
Speaker 2: me why you quit. What, what's good about it? Like,

477
00:26:04,369 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: how do I separate? having fun and camp outs and

478
00:26:08,380 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: everything like i had attached everything to alcohol i'm pushing

479
00:26:11,180 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: my kids on the swing have a drink cooking dinner

480
00:26:13,220 --> 00:26:15,220
Speaker 2: have a drink finished dinner had a drink had a

481
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,780
Speaker 2: good day have a drink bad day everything was attached

482
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,550
Speaker 2: out every single thing like i couldn't like every celebration

483
00:26:23,609 --> 00:26:26,310
Speaker 2: everything and so i'm like how do i detach that

484
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:27,650
Speaker 2: and so i'm asking her about just oh i read

485
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:30,379
Speaker 2: this book i forget the name of the book Uh,

486
00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:32,619
Speaker 2: but it's about getting control over alcohol and she, I

487
00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:35,340
Speaker 2: never finished it, but I could tell she did. She's

488
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: not a big fan of AA, neither am I. Um,

489
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: good for them. It just, it just wasn't something I needed.

490
00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:45,100
Speaker 2: And some of their verbiage, I kind of disagree with, right.

491
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 2: But anyway, and so I kept asking her about the book.

492
00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: She goes, Doug, I'm tired of you asking me about it.

493
00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:52,530
Speaker 2: What's your address? I'm sending it to your house. And

494
00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:56,210
Speaker 2: she did that. And I forgot we'd had that conversation. So,

495
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:58,379
Speaker 2: and then fast, and then I went camping with her

496
00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: husband for one of my kids' birthdays. And we were

497
00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: supposed to like put the kids to bed and then

498
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:04,340
Speaker 2: come out and hang out by the campfire. But I

499
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,699
Speaker 2: was so impaired. I fell asleep putting my kids to

500
00:27:06,740 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: bed and he could just hear me snoring all night.

501
00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:10,820
Speaker 2: And the next morning we got up, he's like, no,

502
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,460
Speaker 2: you got to get your act together. And he gave

503
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: it to me. He's my only good friend that really

504
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: laid into me about my behavior. And so, so his

505
00:27:17,940 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: wife says, I'm going to get you that book. He

506
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,859
Speaker 2: tells me like, I love you. I want to be

507
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: your friend. This can't continue. Now, fast forward about a month.

508
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,729
Speaker 2: And my mom and my friend Heather comes over. They're

509
00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:33,889
Speaker 2: hanging out. And Abby's home from a trip. And the

510
00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:36,010
Speaker 2: next day she's going to leave. And I went out

511
00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:38,909
Speaker 2: and bought a bottle of tequila to make margaritas and

512
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:41,570
Speaker 2: kind of hang out. Made one margarita for my mom,

513
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:44,169
Speaker 2: one for my friend. And I polished off the rest

514
00:27:44,190 --> 00:27:46,629
Speaker 2: of the bottle on my own. And I got a little.

515
00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:47,350
Speaker 3: Been there.

516
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:50,710
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just said, well, the rest is mine, I guess.

517
00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:54,780
Speaker 2: And I don't mix... I didn't mix liquor. I drank

518
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: everything neat. At most, I'd squeeze a lime and put

519
00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:59,220
Speaker 2: some ice in that and add some salt to it

520
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:02,580
Speaker 2: or something like that. And whiskey, I drank neat room temperature,

521
00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: no ice or anything. But anyway, so I put that away.

522
00:28:05,619 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: And the next morning, that's the story. Abby comes up

523
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: to me and she just, she's about to leave. She

524
00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: said all the goodbyes to all the kids. And I

525
00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 2: think our friend was still there in front of, she

526
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:17,660
Speaker 2: didn't care who was around to see it. And she's like, yeah,

527
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,490
Speaker 2: put her arms kind of around my neck and held

528
00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:25,550
Speaker 2: me close and She didn't look happy. She was just like, Doug,

529
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:30,310
Speaker 2: can you please not drink while I'm gone? And you're

530
00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:33,210
Speaker 2: alone with the kids. Can you please not do that?

531
00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:36,129
Speaker 2: You're alone with the kids. I need to know you're

532
00:28:36,170 --> 00:28:38,450
Speaker 2: safe and they're safe. I need to know you can

533
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:43,270
Speaker 2: do that. But the look in her eyes was like, bloody, narrowly,

534
00:28:43,870 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: but I've lost all hope. I've lost all hope that

535
00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:49,140
Speaker 2: you can control this. And so that was what I felt.

536
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:51,550
Speaker 2: I just never, ever, ever wanted to see that look again.

537
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:56,350
Speaker 2: Just that complete, the, the, the agape love was there.

538
00:28:56,390 --> 00:28:56,550
Speaker 1: Right.

539
00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:59,610
Speaker 2: But the romantic, I'm still into you. I'm so glad

540
00:28:59,630 --> 00:29:04,530
Speaker 2: you're my husband. That seemed to have gone away. Like that, uh,

541
00:29:04,550 --> 00:29:07,070
Speaker 2: that thing that makes a marriage thrive. I felt like was,

542
00:29:07,450 --> 00:29:10,430
Speaker 2: was gone because who could love a sloppy, fat, sweaty,

543
00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:11,950
Speaker 2: drunk all the time. You know what I mean? Like,

544
00:29:12,570 --> 00:29:17,010
Speaker 2: and that's where intimately. And so she loved me. as

545
00:29:17,030 --> 00:29:20,190
Speaker 2: her husband because her vows and because she loved god

546
00:29:20,770 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: and she knew that through god she had to love

547
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,740
Speaker 2: me through this right and so i i my feelings

548
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,700
Speaker 2: were hurt man i was i was deeply hurt by

549
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:31,580
Speaker 2: my own behavior not by her words i was thankful

550
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:34,650
Speaker 2: for it and so uh she goes on a trip

551
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:37,010
Speaker 2: and that day that book shows up to my friend

552
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:39,730
Speaker 2: said she was going to order me. And I was like, well, okay, God,

553
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: I hear you, you know? And so, uh, I started

554
00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: reading that book, but I still had these headaches and

555
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: I was kind of chipping away. I was like, okay,

556
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,020
Speaker 2: I'll go buy like a small bottle of alcohol, no beer.

557
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,300
Speaker 2: But I just thought about like a little flash size thing, whiskey.

558
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,300
Speaker 2: And I was going to go see my mom. I

559
00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:58,530
Speaker 2: asked her to hide the alcohol. It's like I'm really

560
00:29:58,550 --> 00:30:00,370
Speaker 2: I was really going to do it. So I was determined.

561
00:30:00,390 --> 00:30:03,470
Speaker 2: And Abby's like, whatever, I don't believe you. And it

562
00:30:03,530 --> 00:30:05,130
Speaker 2: took her a while to buy in, by the way.

563
00:30:05,710 --> 00:30:10,940
Speaker 2: And so about three or four days later, after all that,

564
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,620
Speaker 2: I kind of kept taking those swigs. And I was like,

565
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,530
Speaker 2: I can't do this. This isn't going to work. So

566
00:30:15,550 --> 00:30:16,870
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to finish this. I don't

567
00:30:16,890 --> 00:30:19,030
Speaker 2: want to waste it. So I finished my last bottle

568
00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:21,250
Speaker 2: of whiskey. It was about like the flat size thing

569
00:30:21,310 --> 00:30:24,670
Speaker 2: of Jack Daniels at five o'clock in my garage. I

570
00:30:24,750 --> 00:30:28,430
Speaker 2: can tell you the address. And that was it. That

571
00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:29,770
Speaker 2: was the last drink. I was like, this is it.

572
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: And then I found this app called I Am Sober.

573
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: It could help you. If you want to stop eating

574
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:38,300
Speaker 2: chocolate chip cookies, it'll help you. You know, anything, anything, addiction,

575
00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 2: any addiction. I started that and counting the days became like, OK,

576
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,980
Speaker 2: I'm seven days in feeling good. And I told everybody, listen,

577
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:52,410
Speaker 2: I'm quitting. And Abby's like, hmm. And so even the

578
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:54,550
Speaker 2: book was like, you can drink. Just don't drink while

579
00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:56,390
Speaker 2: you're reading. But by the end of this book, you'll

580
00:30:56,410 --> 00:30:58,790
Speaker 2: have control over alcohol. And I was like, this isn't

581
00:30:58,810 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: really what I'm looking for in terms of like control.

582
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: Like then I kind of just remembered alcohol. I have

583
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: the Catholic seven sacraments, you know, confession, Eucharist, marriage, priesthood, baptism, all.

584
00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:14,460
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to cling to those things.

585
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: Those are a great foundation because they're from God. Those

586
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: are our anchors to him. You know, we talk about

587
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: relationship all the time. Well, what does that look like?

588
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:25,420
Speaker 2: You know, for us humans, people to people, it looks

589
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,220
Speaker 2: like phone calls, prayer. It was like showing up for

590
00:31:28,420 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and meals, mass, church, you know, like. there, there

591
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,860
Speaker 2: is a model there, you know, for what our relationships

592
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:38,739
Speaker 2: would look like. And so I really dove into that

593
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: as much as I could. I was like, I remembered,

594
00:31:40,530 --> 00:31:44,830
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm a, I'm a Christian. I'm a man

595
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:47,790
Speaker 2: of faith. I have this relationship with Christ. It's time

596
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:51,010
Speaker 2: to pull it back. You know, he's, he's there waiting on,

597
00:31:51,290 --> 00:31:55,100
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm the one that walked away. And so, um,

598
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: and I did, you never fully walk away, right? You've

599
00:31:57,620 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: always got that in the back of your head. You've

600
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:02,230
Speaker 2: always got that little voice being like, Hey, come back anytime,

601
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:05,670
Speaker 2: you know? And so, uh, I started and then it

602
00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:08,570
Speaker 2: was funny. It was about a week or two in

603
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:11,070
Speaker 2: Abby and I got into the most glorious fight. And

604
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:13,910
Speaker 2: I say that because if we hadn't gotten this fight,

605
00:32:15,170 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: I might not have stuck to it, but she, she

606
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: gave it to me up and down all the moments

607
00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: where she was the most upset with me for when

608
00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:26,260
Speaker 2: my behavior was at its absolute worst. And she's talked

609
00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:27,940
Speaker 2: about a little bit on her, some of her podcasts,

610
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,500
Speaker 2: but anyway, she, uh, She gave it to me good.

611
00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: And I sat there and I listened to every word

612
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: that happened. And I was like, finally, she's telling me

613
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: how angry she is with me. And she's like, this

614
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,620
Speaker 2: is just BS. Like, she's like, you're two weeks sober

615
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,090
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you're going to tell me this, that,

616
00:32:46,110 --> 00:32:47,270
Speaker 2: and the other. Because that was the other thing. She'd

617
00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:52,150
Speaker 2: kind of taken over leadership in the family. Who was

618
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:54,130
Speaker 2: I to have it? You know, I was barely present.

619
00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:58,590
Speaker 2: And so got up, got out of the car. took

620
00:32:58,610 --> 00:33:01,830
Speaker 2: a little walk around the car. So he came and

621
00:33:01,870 --> 00:33:04,070
Speaker 2: got in. We didn't say another word the next morning.

622
00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:07,290
Speaker 2: I thanked her for saying that. She felt terrible. She

623
00:33:07,310 --> 00:33:08,430
Speaker 2: was like, Oh my God, I never should talk to

624
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:10,860
Speaker 2: you like that. I was like, no, let's, let's schedule this.

625
00:33:11,020 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: Let's do it again next week. You know, um, Gen X,

626
00:33:15,020 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: I need to tell blood, you know? And so, uh,

627
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,740
Speaker 2: and that was the start of it. And then about,

628
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,810
Speaker 2: I don't know, a month into that, she, I had

629
00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:27,090
Speaker 2: brain fog. I couldn't, After 8 p.m. at night, I

630
00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:29,710
Speaker 2: couldn't remember anything, whether or not I was drinking, because

631
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:32,010
Speaker 2: it was just kind of my brain's habit, the muscle

632
00:33:32,030 --> 00:33:34,850
Speaker 2: memory of when I was really abusing the alcohol, like

633
00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:38,410
Speaker 2: blackout after 8 o'clock. And so that was still happening,

634
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:41,100
Speaker 2: even though I wasn't drinking anymore. So she got me

635
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,380
Speaker 2: some supplements to help brain and liver and kidney function

636
00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:46,860
Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. It did help. And then

637
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,460
Speaker 2: I guess about four or five, six months in, she

638
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,300
Speaker 2: was like, OK, I guess he's doing this. And she

639
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: really kind of started to get involved with me in

640
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: my own life. like healing, not just my body from

641
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,700
Speaker 2: the alcohol abuse, but emotions, brain, everything. She really kind

642
00:34:03,740 --> 00:34:06,780
Speaker 2: of got involved. So yeah, that's kind of really how

643
00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: it came to be is I just, people say you

644
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:11,700
Speaker 2: got to do it for yourself. Right. And I was like, no,

645
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,069
Speaker 2: I've been selfish long enough. I'm going to do this

646
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:17,029
Speaker 2: for my wife in case they see that I do

647
00:34:17,070 --> 00:34:19,290
Speaker 2: still love them. Even though I'm doing this thing that

648
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:21,049
Speaker 2: doesn't say I love you. It says I love me.

649
00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:23,850
Speaker 2: You know, I'm putting myself first. I was like, but

650
00:34:23,890 --> 00:34:27,740
Speaker 2: I do truly love them. And God gave me these things,

651
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:30,180
Speaker 2: put me in charge of them. And so I've got

652
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,580
Speaker 2: to take that back. So that's really kind of the motivation.

653
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: So I think two things there.

654
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,580
Speaker 1: I think one is, you know, I do think that

655
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: that phenomenon, right, of the people that we love kind

656
00:34:46,820 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: of having a little bit of a standoffish like, OK,

657
00:34:50,739 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: let me see. Right. And I think sometimes and I've

658
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: heard a lot of people can be like, you know,

659
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,580
Speaker 1: maybe they're a month in and they're like, my spouse or,

660
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, they're still skeptical. And I'm like, of course

661
00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: they are. Right. Like, of course, they're skeptical. And I

662
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,730
Speaker 1: just I love you saying that because I think we

663
00:35:12,770 --> 00:35:17,109
Speaker 1: have to remember like we. Have broken trust with my

664
00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:20,219
Speaker 1: wife and I are still in marriage counseling. Right. And

665
00:35:20,260 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: in some ways it was like it was like, you know,

666
00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:27,969
Speaker 1: two years into my own sobriety, my wife was finally like. OK,

667
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:31,730
Speaker 1: now I need to work like I need to work

668
00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:33,850
Speaker 1: through some things. You've worked through a lot of things.

669
00:35:34,070 --> 00:35:37,489
Speaker 1: You've gone to counseling. You've gone to therapy. And now

670
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:39,969
Speaker 1: it's my turn, not in a selfish way, but like

671
00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: now I can trust. And so let's work through this.

672
00:35:43,380 --> 00:35:45,419
Speaker 1: And so I think for some people, they get really

673
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: discouraged by that. And I just want to say, like,

674
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:48,340
Speaker 1: that's normal.

675
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: Right.

676
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,500
Speaker 3: You experience that.

677
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,060
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. They kind of get it. They're she was

678
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: kind of in charge. And maybe she liked it. She's like,

679
00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: I don't think she wanted to give up her role,

680
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:02,259
Speaker 2: her ability to just kind of make decisions without really

681
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,100
Speaker 2: having to discuss it. And I can't blame her. Right.

682
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: She can only trust herself in that situation.

683
00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:08,259
Speaker 1: Yeah.

684
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: Like rebuilding trust and taking accountability. And like I said before,

685
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,100
Speaker 2: taking hyper accountability. Eventually, she started to come forward and say, like,

686
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,570
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for my role I played in your in

687
00:36:21,590 --> 00:36:23,930
Speaker 2: your behavior. And all of a sudden she started to recognize.

688
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: her part in it and then take that on. And like,

689
00:36:27,340 --> 00:36:29,089
Speaker 2: and we, we never went to marriage counseling. I did

690
00:36:29,110 --> 00:36:31,770
Speaker 2: go to one-on-one counseling, but then we just started kind

691
00:36:31,810 --> 00:36:33,850
Speaker 2: of having discussions on her. So anyway, the second thing

692
00:36:33,890 --> 00:36:36,410
Speaker 2: you're saying. Yeah.

693
00:36:36,469 --> 00:36:39,350
Speaker 1: Well, the second thing is, is I'm curious, I do

694
00:36:39,390 --> 00:36:41,910
Speaker 1: want to get to your, your posts from March 31st

695
00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:43,730
Speaker 1: and go through kind of those five things, which you've

696
00:36:43,770 --> 00:36:48,460
Speaker 1: already covered. But is what did you realize kind of

697
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,100
Speaker 1: was at the heart of why you were doing this, right?

698
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,020
Speaker 1: And maybe you've kind of hinted at some of it,

699
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was, hey, I just, you know,

700
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,780
Speaker 1: everything was an opportunity to drink.

701
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,390
Speaker 3: But what, as you've done your.

702
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:05,469
Speaker 1: Own, you know, therapy and counseling and kind of looked

703
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:07,470
Speaker 1: into the root, what have you found?

704
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:09,290
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this.

705
00:37:12,910 --> 00:37:16,210
Speaker 2: So when I went to doing some counseling, there was

706
00:37:16,450 --> 00:37:18,750
Speaker 2: a handful of things. Like I said, I think resentment

707
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: was the biggest fuel and boredom. I was bored as

708
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: a stay-at-home dad. I don't necessarily know that men need

709
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: to be doing that. If it is, it should be

710
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,660
Speaker 2: very temporary. You should have a plan going in and

711
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 2: an exit strategy. Like, hey, I'm going to go to school,

712
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 2: do these things while my wife works and supports us,

713
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: and then I have another job to move on to.

714
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,060
Speaker 2: I didn't really have that. It was something else. And

715
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:49,029
Speaker 2: so I guess I just felt kind of purposeless. And also, okay, so...

716
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: not getting too forward, but like, so at the end

717
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: of the day, before I wrote that March 31st post

718
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: and all that, or as after that, I started feeling

719
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,630
Speaker 2: this devil's getting at me, man. I definitely had a

720
00:38:03,650 --> 00:38:06,610
Speaker 2: struggle at the beginning of this month. And I was thinking, uh,

721
00:38:06,930 --> 00:38:09,770
Speaker 2: I squandered my thirties. Like, what did I do? Like

722
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:13,129
Speaker 2: here I am 48 back problems. You know, they say

723
00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:15,870
Speaker 2: youth is wasted on the young, right? I was like,

724
00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:18,930
Speaker 2: I squandered my thirties. I really, I wasn't there. I

725
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:22,060
Speaker 2: was a president. I had too much fun. Uh, And

726
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,650
Speaker 2: I feel like intimacy was kind of low in our marriage,

727
00:38:25,730 --> 00:38:28,529
Speaker 2: but like, so we got pregnant a lot and people

728
00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:31,489
Speaker 2: are like, Oh, you must've had tons of sex, right? No,

729
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:36,469
Speaker 2: it only takes one. And we had like rough pregnancies

730
00:38:36,570 --> 00:38:39,430
Speaker 2: and she'd be sick a lot. And so they're like, Oh,

731
00:38:39,530 --> 00:38:40,990
Speaker 2: you don't have to worry about getting pregnant when you're

732
00:38:41,010 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: already pregnant. I'm like, man, that doesn't mean we're doing

733
00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: that anyway. And so we had long stretches where that

734
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,170
Speaker 2: part of our marriage suffered. Okay. And, and, People think, oh,

735
00:38:51,170 --> 00:38:54,180
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to talk about that. But no, sex

736
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: is a gift. Intimacy, not just sex. Like closeness is

737
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: a big part of marriage. And like my drinking caused

738
00:39:01,540 --> 00:39:03,060
Speaker 2: her to not want to talk to me or be

739
00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,460
Speaker 2: next to me, which caused her to not really. We

740
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: weren't coming together as often as a couple should. And

741
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: I like, I think most men, other men listen to this.

742
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,609
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're all shaking their head right now. Like,

743
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,910
Speaker 2: heck yeah, man. Like we need that. We need that attachment.

744
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:24,990
Speaker 2: And so. Uh, and it just, it hurts your feelings

745
00:39:25,330 --> 00:39:27,770
Speaker 2: when you're, it feels like, am I not desirable? And like,

746
00:39:27,969 --> 00:39:29,629
Speaker 2: it's not just women that go through this. Men definitely

747
00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: go through this. through this too. And it's, it's not

748
00:39:32,660 --> 00:39:35,779
Speaker 2: femininity or anything like that. Like you're like, Hey, I

749
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: want to conquer. I want to do these things. And,

750
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,339
Speaker 2: and so when you feels like your, your wife isn't

751
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:45,739
Speaker 2: coming in and there's no closeness there, that's when the

752
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,450
Speaker 2: resentment kicked in and then she's gone and she's becoming famous. And,

753
00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: I'm here just without my person that I love being

754
00:39:54,460 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 2: around the most. And I, I just, this is very resentful.

755
00:39:57,860 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 2: I was angry. And then she'd come home and I'm

756
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,030
Speaker 2: half drunk already. And I'm going out with friends. I'm like, Hey, God,

757
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:05,930
Speaker 2: if I were watching the kids, it's your turn. I'm

758
00:40:05,989 --> 00:40:09,330
Speaker 2: out of here. I'm going to go do this. And, and, uh,

759
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:14,149
Speaker 2: so it was, we just grown apart in a lot

760
00:40:14,170 --> 00:40:16,190
Speaker 2: of ways. And we were very much in love. We

761
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: had a good, strong relationship. healthy marriage, but there were

762
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,100
Speaker 2: just little chinks in the arm here and there. And, uh,

763
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,460
Speaker 2: I was just fueling, throwing fuel on the fire by

764
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,219
Speaker 2: drinking the way it was. And so, so when you,

765
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:29,950
Speaker 2: when you ask like kind of what were the little

766
00:40:30,010 --> 00:40:32,310
Speaker 2: things that kind of drove the drinking, I'd have to

767
00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:38,410
Speaker 2: say it was, it was just ignorance to what a

768
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:44,190
Speaker 2: marriage needs, you know, not really prioritizing that you know

769
00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:47,410
Speaker 2: like and and when it comes to intimacy her needs

770
00:40:47,489 --> 00:40:50,170
Speaker 2: and my needs and really like i'm sitting here going

771
00:40:50,190 --> 00:40:52,190
Speaker 2: well if you're not going to fulfill my need then

772
00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:53,650
Speaker 2: i'm just going to go do what i want right

773
00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:56,130
Speaker 2: if we're not doing this i'm going to do and

774
00:40:56,330 --> 00:40:59,330
Speaker 2: um and her doing almost the exact same thing so

775
00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:00,969
Speaker 2: i really think that's what drove it and we just

776
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:03,950
Speaker 2: were never smart enough to come together and hash it

777
00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: out and have a big blowout fight and talk about

778
00:41:06,820 --> 00:41:09,670
Speaker 2: it you know and If we had done that earlier on,

779
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:12,350
Speaker 2: things might've been very different. But going back on saying,

780
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:14,750
Speaker 2: I think I squandered my thirties and I was looking,

781
00:41:14,770 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I made eight beautiful children. And like,

782
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:20,940
Speaker 2: if I hadn't gone through this, I may not be

783
00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: as happy and having as good a healthy marriage as

784
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: I have now. Maybe I needed to go through those

785
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,980
Speaker 2: trials to understand what I have and to appreciate it

786
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,810
Speaker 2: the way. And again, these, these anchors God gives us

787
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:35,610
Speaker 2: marriage being a sacrament and a vow. And you, you,

788
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,549
Speaker 2: You make these promises, not just to your spouse, but

789
00:41:38,590 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: to God and to your whole community. And it's the

790
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,580
Speaker 2: church at home. You know, you have the domestic church. And... uh,

791
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: Christ said, you know, like you, you were supposed to

792
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 2: love your spouse as Christ loves the church. And boy,

793
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,129
Speaker 2: do you love this church? You know? And so I'm

794
00:41:54,170 --> 00:41:57,170
Speaker 2: just living with this woman now. I always have been,

795
00:41:57,610 --> 00:41:59,730
Speaker 2: but now it's, I think it's showing a little more

796
00:41:59,810 --> 00:42:03,029
Speaker 2: outwardly and in private home, like to our kids for

797
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:06,469
Speaker 2: them to see. And so I kind of like Satan,

798
00:42:06,489 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 2: get out of here. I didn't squander my thirties. Maybe

799
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: I didn't correctly, but I have so much to show

800
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 2: for it. So there you go.

801
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

802
00:42:16,469 --> 00:42:17,049
Speaker 3: I love to.

803
00:42:17,070 --> 00:42:19,690
Speaker 1: I mean, I think part of what what I hear

804
00:42:19,790 --> 00:42:22,089
Speaker 1: when you talk about that and, you know, I'm big

805
00:42:22,190 --> 00:42:23,709
Speaker 1: on and we're actually going to get to this because

806
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:26,450
Speaker 1: I think it's number five in your list. But, you know,

807
00:42:26,469 --> 00:42:31,089
Speaker 1: when we look at those kind of sin issues that

808
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,460
Speaker 1: lead us, I mean, there was in a sense. And

809
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: this is why I say addiction is both a spiritual

810
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,500
Speaker 1: and physical. It's like you got to the point where

811
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,820
Speaker 1: you had physical withdrawal symptoms, like that physical aspect in

812
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: a way took over. Right. But at the heart of

813
00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:47,310
Speaker 1: what was drawing you there was this spiritual like like

814
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: there was selfishness there. Right.

815
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: There was resentment. Right.

816
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:54,430
Speaker 1: And those things needed to be dealt with and rooted out,

817
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: you know, and are what led to like, I'm just

818
00:42:57,340 --> 00:42:59,460
Speaker 1: going to keep drinking. And then you keep drinking, drinking, drinking,

819
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,420
Speaker 1: and then the physical, you know, and so I just

820
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: love your honesty there. And so that brings me to,

821
00:43:05,180 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 1: you know, this post that you did in March, where

822
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,469
Speaker 1: you talk about the five things you learned, you've learned

823
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:15,150
Speaker 1: over the last, you know, five years in sobriety. And

824
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:17,450
Speaker 1: that first one, which you've talked about a little bit,

825
00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:19,950
Speaker 1: why I quit. And I think I love your perspective

826
00:43:20,050 --> 00:43:25,330
Speaker 1: on this because it is counter to what a lot

827
00:43:25,350 --> 00:43:27,290
Speaker 1: of people say. But I think when you explain it

828
00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:28,750
Speaker 1: the way you do, I'm like, oh, yeah, I agree

829
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:29,009
Speaker 1: with that.

830
00:43:29,070 --> 00:43:29,210
Speaker 2: Right.

831
00:43:29,570 --> 00:43:33,250
Speaker 1: And that is you didn't quit for yourself. And I've

832
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:35,270
Speaker 1: given this advice. And I think in some ways it

833
00:43:35,330 --> 00:43:37,910
Speaker 1: is still true. Right. You have to quit for yourself.

834
00:43:37,989 --> 00:43:39,860
Speaker 1: But I love the way that you talk about it,

835
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,250
Speaker 1: which is, well, Actually, I had to become unselfish. And

836
00:43:44,290 --> 00:43:48,029
Speaker 1: so talk about that just quickly because I know you've

837
00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:50,350
Speaker 1: covered it a little bit, but why you quit and

838
00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:53,650
Speaker 1: why you had to actually realize I have to quit

839
00:43:54,110 --> 00:43:56,530
Speaker 1: out of selflessness.

840
00:43:58,090 --> 00:44:01,540
Speaker 2: Sacrificial love is what I was going for. If I

841
00:44:01,739 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 2: want to describe it biblically, it was sacrificial love. And so,

842
00:44:06,090 --> 00:44:09,950
Speaker 2: and it's like, Oh, you're sacrificed alcohol, big hero. Yeah, man.

843
00:44:09,969 --> 00:44:11,669
Speaker 2: I don't think you understand what your body goes through

844
00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:14,730
Speaker 2: when you quit and the suffering. And I, I loved

845
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:17,489
Speaker 2: every minute of it, like embrace it, you know, but,

846
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: I think both sets of advice work. I think it

847
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: depends on your rock bottom. I never lost my family.

848
00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: My rock bottom is not the same as other people's.

849
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:28,700
Speaker 2: If you lose your whole family, nobody wants to talk

850
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,379
Speaker 2: to you, nobody trusts you, you're homeless, whatever the case

851
00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: may be, then yeah, you have to quit for yourself.

852
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,980
Speaker 2: You have to do it to build yourself back up

853
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,140
Speaker 2: so that maybe you can present yourself back to your

854
00:44:40,180 --> 00:44:43,140
Speaker 2: family and be like, I want to rebuild this relationship.

855
00:44:43,830 --> 00:44:46,270
Speaker 2: I wasn't that far down, I guess you would say.

856
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:48,069
Speaker 2: It was just a different rock bottom for me. It

857
00:44:48,110 --> 00:44:50,969
Speaker 2: was the look on my wife's face that I never

858
00:44:50,989 --> 00:44:55,090
Speaker 2: wanted to see. And, you know, it was my kids, like,

859
00:44:55,260 --> 00:44:57,940
Speaker 2: what are they seeing? I just didn't want to be

860
00:44:57,980 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: that guy anymore. And so that was my rock bottom

861
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: and realizing I could lose everything. And everything was at stake.

862
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,779
Speaker 2: I had everything to lose. You know, people that have

863
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:09,650
Speaker 2: nothing to lose. Yes, you should quit for yourself because

864
00:45:09,690 --> 00:45:13,140
Speaker 2: that's all you got left is you. And so rebuild

865
00:45:13,180 --> 00:45:15,989
Speaker 2: that relationship with God. And then I think you will

866
00:45:16,010 --> 00:45:19,170
Speaker 2: be rewarded very well. It may not be what you expect.

867
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:21,969
Speaker 2: It may be the rewards he wants for you. And

868
00:45:22,070 --> 00:45:23,969
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, be careful what you pray for

869
00:45:24,090 --> 00:45:26,470
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And that's what I talk about with Abby,

870
00:45:26,489 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 2: like not getting quite on board with the sobriety thing first,

871
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: because that meant I was going to kind of reclaim

872
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: the leadership role in the home and that I was

873
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: going to put my foot down a little more. And

874
00:45:37,739 --> 00:45:40,870
Speaker 2: I was going to Say, hey, I think we should

875
00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:43,569
Speaker 2: be doing this as a family. And just, I was

876
00:45:43,610 --> 00:45:47,180
Speaker 2: going to be more involved. And she was going to

877
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,010
Speaker 2: kind of have to, like, let that happen. And so

878
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 2: there was a little, that was a sacrifice for her.

879
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,460
Speaker 2: And so it just became practicing sacrificial love, I guess.

880
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: It's like, let's just put it in place and see

881
00:46:00,020 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: where this takes us. So, yeah.

882
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, when it comes to those

883
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,740
Speaker 1: two things, right, quitting for yourself versus quitting for others,

884
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:13,330
Speaker 1: I think the common denominator there, is a genuine brokenness, right?

885
00:46:13,770 --> 00:46:17,230
Speaker 1: And so for some people, it's like, hey, I can't

886
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:20,629
Speaker 1: be broken for someone else. Meaning like, you know what,

887
00:46:21,310 --> 00:46:23,450
Speaker 1: if it's just pressure and I'm only doing it to

888
00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: make them happy, is that a true genuine brokenness, right?

889
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: And then on the flip side though is, and I

890
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: think this is your situation, you're like, no, seeing that look,

891
00:46:33,540 --> 00:46:38,020
Speaker 1: understanding my responsibility as a man of God, as a husband,

892
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:42,069
Speaker 1: as a father, That led me to that genuine brokenness.

893
00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:45,150
Speaker 1: And I think that is the that's the common denominator.

894
00:46:46,170 --> 00:46:49,770
Speaker 1: Number two, fears about quitting. And I think this is good.

895
00:46:49,890 --> 00:46:50,109
Speaker 2: Right.

896
00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, I tell people often

897
00:46:54,219 --> 00:47:00,259
Speaker 1: a lot of times you have to grieve giving up

898
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:03,540
Speaker 1: this substance. And I think in some ways that's what

899
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: you experienced. And so talk about that fear of quitting.

900
00:47:08,810 --> 00:47:14,430
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I always thought, you know, like it fueled

901
00:47:14,469 --> 00:47:16,430
Speaker 2: my sense of humor or something like that. Like, oh,

902
00:47:16,469 --> 00:47:18,890
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be funny because I'll have this filter.

903
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:20,969
Speaker 2: If I'm if I'm not drinking, it got away or

904
00:47:21,390 --> 00:47:24,350
Speaker 2: rid of my filter. I could kind of get away.

905
00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:25,989
Speaker 2: I felt like I could get away with more because

906
00:47:26,030 --> 00:47:29,890
Speaker 2: I was drinking. And, you know, growing up, I was

907
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:37,109
Speaker 2: very shy, painfully shy, very anxious kid. I probably should

908
00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:40,420
Speaker 2: have been in counseling way back when. But I had

909
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,299
Speaker 2: a hard time going into situations where I didn't know

910
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,910
Speaker 2: what was going on. Alcohol made that easier. Again, it

911
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:47,810
Speaker 2: was the cure. It was the cure to my shyness.

912
00:47:48,489 --> 00:47:53,700
Speaker 2: And so... I think we've all seen Ferris Bueller's day off, right?

913
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: We all want to be Ferris. We all want to

914
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:58,029
Speaker 2: be the guy on the float singing. Everybody loves Ferris

915
00:47:58,050 --> 00:48:00,430
Speaker 2: and everybody raising money for Ferris. Cause he's got needs

916
00:48:00,450 --> 00:48:03,670
Speaker 2: a new kidney, whatever happened. But we're all, I'm Cameron.

917
00:48:03,930 --> 00:48:06,989
Speaker 2: I'm Cameron. The guy's like, can't do that. We're going

918
00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:08,710
Speaker 2: to get in trouble. No, like I'm the guy that

919
00:48:08,730 --> 00:48:11,589
Speaker 2: has me drug along to have fun that everybody's like,

920
00:48:11,790 --> 00:48:14,009
Speaker 2: you're a fun person. Come on. I'm like, no, we're

921
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:15,529
Speaker 2: going to get in trouble. No, we're just going to

922
00:48:15,550 --> 00:48:17,670
Speaker 2: cost too much money. Whatever excuse I'd come up with

923
00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:19,890
Speaker 2: not to go because it was just too anxious for me.

924
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,100
Speaker 2: So that's kind of how that was my true personality

925
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: growing up. And then I felt like alcohol turned me

926
00:48:25,980 --> 00:48:28,340
Speaker 2: into a Ferris. And because I didn't want to be

927
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:28,660
Speaker 2: a camper.

928
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: Right.

929
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 2: And so that's always been my references. The Ferris Bueller

930
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: is I think most people want to be that guy

931
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: in the 80s movie that everybody thinks is fun and

932
00:48:37,140 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: the popular guy. Right. And so and then I just again,

933
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: like through doing that and being I was like, I

934
00:48:44,739 --> 00:48:46,490
Speaker 2: would go to parties. I'd always take like a bag

935
00:48:46,530 --> 00:48:49,010
Speaker 2: of pretzels and a beer. Because people come talk to you, hey,

936
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,739
Speaker 2: can I have a pretzel? And that was a conversation

937
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,060
Speaker 2: starter for me because I didn't know how to walk

938
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,620
Speaker 2: up to people and say anything. And so and then

939
00:48:56,700 --> 00:49:00,930
Speaker 2: getting married, Abby became my social coach. Like, don't say

940
00:49:00,950 --> 00:49:05,410
Speaker 2: that joke anymore. Or you were great tonight. Very charming.

941
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:10,020
Speaker 2: And I always thought like, oh, if I can have

942
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 2: a drink, it'll settle my nerves, whatever the case may be,

943
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: it'll squelch that anxiety and I can go out even

944
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,210
Speaker 2: if I don't drink during the event. If I just

945
00:49:17,250 --> 00:49:19,670
Speaker 2: drink a little before the event and go out, I'll

946
00:49:19,690 --> 00:49:21,630
Speaker 2: be fine. I can be my charming self and then

947
00:49:21,710 --> 00:49:26,469
Speaker 2: drink after like I'm timing my, my bugs. Right. So that,

948
00:49:26,570 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: so it, uh, benefits me. And so I think I

949
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: felt like I just, I leaned on that way too much.

950
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,219
Speaker 2: And then what's funny is, uh, Even after I'd gotten

951
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: over it, I was like, I don't need alcohol to

952
00:49:38,660 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: go talk to people. No, I just still wanted the album.

953
00:49:41,219 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: And so I kind of had a lot to do

954
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:47,020
Speaker 2: with it. And quitting, I was like, well, am I

955
00:49:47,060 --> 00:49:49,300
Speaker 2: still going to be able to, like, enjoy a campfire

956
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: conversation with my friends? Am I still going to come

957
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:55,419
Speaker 2: up with these conversation starters? Like, hey, if you're going

958
00:49:55,460 --> 00:49:58,330
Speaker 2: into heaven, what band is playing you in, right? Like,

959
00:49:58,350 --> 00:50:00,529
Speaker 2: that's the kind of dumb crap we talked about when

960
00:50:00,590 --> 00:50:03,450
Speaker 2: we were drinking. And so for me, it was Johnny Cash,

961
00:50:03,469 --> 00:50:05,489
Speaker 2: by the way. And so.

962
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:08,570
Speaker 2: I thought like, man, are people going to want to

963
00:50:08,590 --> 00:50:10,870
Speaker 2: hang out with me anymore? And the truth is, even

964
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:12,890
Speaker 2: my drinking friends were like, oh, thank God they didn't

965
00:50:12,910 --> 00:50:15,209
Speaker 2: sober up, but they didn't quit drinking, but they didn't

966
00:50:15,230 --> 00:50:17,790
Speaker 2: have the same problems I did. You know, they could

967
00:50:17,810 --> 00:50:18,510
Speaker 2: keep it together.

968
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:18,630
Speaker 1: Yeah.

969
00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 2: So, but they were thankful I quit. They're like, oh,

970
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,490
Speaker 2: you're way more fun. And so, I guess I needed

971
00:50:25,530 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: that encouragement too, people to affirm like, you've made the

972
00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: right decision. We do enjoy being around you. You're better.

973
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,700
Speaker 2: You're clearer. We can understand what you're saying. You're not

974
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,610
Speaker 2: falling down. And so, Yeah, it just kind of had

975
00:50:38,620 --> 00:50:41,950
Speaker 2: to go through it. And so you just kind of

976
00:50:41,969 --> 00:50:43,210
Speaker 2: had to walk in and find out what it is

977
00:50:43,969 --> 00:50:45,089
Speaker 2: to really know if it was going to work.

978
00:50:59,020 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 3: And for once, genuine confidence in myself, right?

979
00:51:02,340 --> 00:51:04,980
Speaker 1: Like alcohol was a crutch and yeah, you took it

980
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,670
Speaker 1: away and maybe for a little bit, right? Like you

981
00:51:07,710 --> 00:51:10,830
Speaker 1: have to deal with that uncomfortability, but then you're forced to,

982
00:51:11,130 --> 00:51:12,969
Speaker 1: and I love this, like I say this, like you're

983
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:16,230
Speaker 1: forced to grow up, right? Like in so many ways,

984
00:51:16,489 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: addiction is just a perpetuation of adolescence because you're like,

985
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,460
Speaker 1: I'm just going to run away from this thing I

986
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,790
Speaker 1: don't want to do. And it's like, that's what my

987
00:51:23,830 --> 00:51:27,090
Speaker 1: eight-year-old does, right? And so it forces you to, in

988
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: a sense, grow up. And so I think you've learned that.

989
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: The third thing... is you say replace it with what, right?

990
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,660
Speaker 1: And I think there's a spiritual way to look at

991
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: this and a secular way. And I think what you're

992
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,940
Speaker 1: kind of talking about here is the kind of secular way.

993
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,469
Speaker 1: And so you got a lot of advice early on, like, hey,

994
00:51:44,510 --> 00:51:46,549
Speaker 1: you just, okay, you're going to quit and then just

995
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:49,830
Speaker 1: find something to replace your time with. And so talk

996
00:51:49,870 --> 00:51:52,690
Speaker 1: about why you didn't really like that advice, but in

997
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:56,330
Speaker 1: a sense, how you then use the spiritual aspect of that.

998
00:51:56,350 --> 00:51:59,569
Speaker 2: Well, when you look at AA, they're all a bunch

999
00:51:59,610 --> 00:52:02,580
Speaker 2: of smokers. They put down the bottle and they pick

1000
00:52:02,620 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: up the cigarette. I'm like, I never like smoking anything.

1001
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 2: I hate cigars. I hate cigarettes. And so like, what's,

1002
00:52:09,219 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: why would I want to be addicted to a new

1003
00:52:10,660 --> 00:52:14,830
Speaker 2: thing or even addicted to meetings or whining about my

1004
00:52:14,910 --> 00:52:17,930
Speaker 2: alcohol abuse? Like just constantly listening to myself tell the

1005
00:52:17,950 --> 00:52:21,170
Speaker 2: same story or whatever the new addiction is. I just

1006
00:52:21,210 --> 00:52:28,549
Speaker 2: felt like that didn't seem to fit my faith outlook. Right.

1007
00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:32,180
Speaker 2: What I know to be my relationship with Christ. And

1008
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: I was like, no, what is he giving me? What

1009
00:52:34,940 --> 00:52:37,660
Speaker 2: do I already have? Some people start working out. Well,

1010
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:41,310
Speaker 2: I've been working out for umpteen years. So, yeah, I'm

1011
00:52:41,330 --> 00:52:43,049
Speaker 2: going to keep doing that because I enjoy it. So

1012
00:52:43,090 --> 00:52:45,589
Speaker 2: that's not replacing anything. And like I like to tell

1013
00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:47,250
Speaker 2: you that the pie chart thing. So if you look

1014
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 2: at a pie chart and each thing takes up a

1015
00:52:49,820 --> 00:52:53,020
Speaker 2: certain amount of space in the pie and alcohol probably

1016
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,870
Speaker 2: might have the biggest space. And so what I wanted

1017
00:52:56,910 --> 00:52:59,310
Speaker 2: to do is like, well, how do I fill in?

1018
00:52:59,370 --> 00:53:01,509
Speaker 2: Like I remove alcohol. I just need to make all

1019
00:53:01,530 --> 00:53:04,830
Speaker 2: the other things bigger, pour myself enough of myself and

1020
00:53:05,170 --> 00:53:08,430
Speaker 2: make it appropriate. Like faith and family needs to be

1021
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:13,490
Speaker 2: pretty big and working out doesn't need to be that big.

1022
00:53:13,550 --> 00:53:17,620
Speaker 2: And leisure time should be this big. And so I

1023
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,020
Speaker 2: really just kind of looked at what I already had.

1024
00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 2: And just made those things bigger in my life because

1025
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 2: the things I had were, I'm supposed to, they're gifts, right?

1026
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:30,660
Speaker 2: Like God gave me this wife and kids, this family,

1027
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,490
Speaker 2: gave me this church, community, all these things. He gave

1028
00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:38,029
Speaker 2: me a physical body to take care of, right? And

1029
00:53:38,090 --> 00:53:42,109
Speaker 2: so we're made in his likeness and image and got

1030
00:53:42,130 --> 00:53:45,090
Speaker 2: to take care of that and not abuse it and

1031
00:53:45,130 --> 00:53:47,310
Speaker 2: be present. And so just kind of really thinking about

1032
00:53:47,350 --> 00:53:50,620
Speaker 2: those things. And so that's what I really dove into.

1033
00:53:50,980 --> 00:53:53,460
Speaker 2: And I was like, this whole thing about replacing it

1034
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 2: with something new, it just doesn't work for me. But

1035
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,069
Speaker 2: what's funny is I was actually thinking about that part

1036
00:53:58,090 --> 00:54:01,130
Speaker 2: of the post the other day. And I am a

1037
00:54:01,170 --> 00:54:04,149
Speaker 2: little addicted to caffeine and sunshine right now. And so

1038
00:54:04,170 --> 00:54:08,950
Speaker 2: if I have to replace it, it's pre-workout powder and

1039
00:54:08,989 --> 00:54:11,970
Speaker 2: going outside in the sun as much as I can. Yeah. Yeah.

1040
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:16,210
Speaker 1: Well, you have this other post, too, I think that

1041
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:18,810
Speaker 1: you did, you know, a few days before the one

1042
00:54:18,850 --> 00:54:22,129
Speaker 1: that we're referencing. And so, you know, and I think

1043
00:54:22,190 --> 00:54:25,670
Speaker 1: it really captures a lot of like where we are

1044
00:54:25,710 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: when I talk about gospel centered recovery. This idea of,

1045
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,779
Speaker 1: you know, going back to the pie chart is it's

1046
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:36,540
Speaker 1: not just finding a new addiction, right? It's not just

1047
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: finding a new substance, a new thing to occupy yourself.

1048
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: That's not true freedom, right? And so you talk about,

1049
00:54:42,890 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: and this is the one from March 25th, where you

1050
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: talk about like, listen, in the end, you know, you know,

1051
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,620
Speaker 1: a lot of people, I think I'm included in that, right?

1052
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,380
Speaker 1: Where we ended up just saying, I need more of Jesus.

1053
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: I need more of God, right? That's the thing that

1054
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,460
Speaker 1: is going to crowd out those kind of lesser affections,

1055
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:09,169
Speaker 1: you know, St. Augustine, you know, when he talks about disordered,

1056
00:55:10,340 --> 00:55:13,020
Speaker 1: It's like getting those things back in order. But, you know,

1057
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,700
Speaker 1: you talked about in this post that that's been something

1058
00:55:15,739 --> 00:55:21,310
Speaker 1: that people have experienced this too, especially if they're big

1059
00:55:21,550 --> 00:55:23,430
Speaker 1: in the 12-step or AA crowd.

1060
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:25,229
Speaker 3: They don't like that, right?

1061
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:28,549
Speaker 1: And so what is the response that you've gotten to

1062
00:55:28,570 --> 00:55:30,950
Speaker 1: the idea of, you know, in a sense what I say,

1063
00:55:30,989 --> 00:55:34,049
Speaker 1: shooting for Jesus and getting sobriety thrown in? What is

1064
00:55:34,070 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: the response that you've gotten to that and how have

1065
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: you responded to that?

1066
00:55:38,219 --> 00:55:42,830
Speaker 2: So– Yeah, when I first started talking about it, I

1067
00:55:42,850 --> 00:55:44,969
Speaker 2: guess when I got the most of that kind of

1068
00:55:45,390 --> 00:55:47,460
Speaker 2: nonsense as well, I really like to refer to it

1069
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,219
Speaker 2: as because, you know, when I'm human, it annoyed me

1070
00:55:51,260 --> 00:55:53,610
Speaker 2: nonstop to have people saying, you're doing it wrong. Oh,

1071
00:55:53,620 --> 00:55:55,020
Speaker 2: you got to do it this way. What do you

1072
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:57,060
Speaker 2: mean you're not going to meetings? Oh, it scares me

1073
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: that you're not going to me. Oh, no, no, no.

1074
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: You know, you're not the way I think we talked

1075
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:04,230
Speaker 2: about it. You're not sober. You're a you're a dry drunk.

1076
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,820
Speaker 2: dry drunk that mean that is the dumbest thing ever

1077
00:56:08,219 --> 00:56:10,900
Speaker 2: can you even define that that's just some buzzword you

1078
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,819
Speaker 2: came up with on the fly and so uh man

1079
00:56:13,860 --> 00:56:17,850
Speaker 2: that's the thing i think it even changed the way

1080
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:19,970
Speaker 2: i use i don't like to use the word sober

1081
00:56:20,010 --> 00:56:22,630
Speaker 2: that often because they feel like they've copywritten it and

1082
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:26,260
Speaker 2: it means whatever they decide it means right or um

1083
00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: recovery i'm like i don't know what that is like

1084
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,140
Speaker 2: i i feel like i'm I've healed. I'm doing some healing.

1085
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,460
Speaker 2: I'm constantly, uh, working on myself. Maybe you call it

1086
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 2: to something different. It looks the same. I don't know.

1087
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 2: I get very confused with their verbiage and I just

1088
00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:45,540
Speaker 2: kind of gave up on it. And so, um, I

1089
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: would fight with them and argue with them and be like,

1090
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:51,500
Speaker 2: I don't need you to tell me, um, how to

1091
00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:54,939
Speaker 2: be sober. Like, why can't what I'm saying be enough

1092
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,780
Speaker 2: for you? And so that was kind of my response

1093
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,100
Speaker 2: to them. And then I finally, finally just started, uh,

1094
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess I started using my own

1095
00:57:05,500 --> 00:57:08,790
Speaker 2: words and language instead. I stopped using their words like

1096
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:11,730
Speaker 2: sober recovery, all that kind of stuff. I started using

1097
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:15,029
Speaker 2: my own honest words like in that post. And and

1098
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:18,150
Speaker 2: just like, here's here's what I think. And that. And

1099
00:57:18,190 --> 00:57:20,690
Speaker 2: I think I had another post you were going to

1100
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: talk about where I said, like, there's no there's no

1101
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 2: numbers or statistics on us. And I think statistics are

1102
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,380
Speaker 2: overused anyway. I really do. I think we need to

1103
00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:32,260
Speaker 2: start looking around and observing things and taking that in

1104
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:37,510
Speaker 2: as real information, in fact. And I think people like

1105
00:57:37,530 --> 00:57:39,270
Speaker 2: you and I were not part of any kind of surveys.

1106
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:44,370
Speaker 2: You know, we didn't go to a rehab facility and

1107
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:47,290
Speaker 2: we're not counted and then we don't. we don't have

1108
00:57:47,330 --> 00:57:50,990
Speaker 2: like a, Oh, we went back. So you relapse on

1109
00:57:51,010 --> 00:57:52,910
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And even the definition of the

1110
00:57:52,930 --> 00:57:56,140
Speaker 2: word relapse bugs me. Like if you drink anything at all,

1111
00:57:56,780 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: you've relapsed. I'm like, well, I feel like if you

1112
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,820
Speaker 2: return to a behavior, the behavior would be right. And

1113
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,130
Speaker 2: it relapsed and thought the whole thought, like the other

1114
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:08,110
Speaker 2: day when I was talking about what I said earlier,

1115
00:58:08,170 --> 00:58:11,090
Speaker 2: how I thought I'd squandered my thirties. I feel like

1116
00:58:11,110 --> 00:58:12,830
Speaker 2: that was kind of relapsed because I was feeling sorry

1117
00:58:12,850 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 2: for myself and really kind of, Being selfish again. And

1118
00:58:16,540 --> 00:58:18,300
Speaker 2: I don't consider it a relapse, but it was a

1119
00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: I went back to that old stinking thinking. Right. And

1120
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,820
Speaker 2: so my response to those people is really kind of

1121
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,490
Speaker 2: to ignore them a lot of the time and just. Yeah.

1122
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:30,700
Speaker 2: Stick with the people I know that had the same

1123
00:58:30,740 --> 00:58:33,919
Speaker 2: war stories. We can sit around and laugh about swimming

1124
00:58:34,020 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 2: our own feces and flooding our houses. And what's funny

1125
00:58:37,260 --> 00:58:38,820
Speaker 2: is when you have those stories around people who have

1126
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,500
Speaker 2: never touched alcohol before and the looks on their faces,

1127
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,860
Speaker 2: they're just like horrified. They're like, how can you say

1128
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:46,620
Speaker 2: you ever loved Jesus and you did that? And I

1129
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 2: was like, well, that's.

1130
00:58:49,620 --> 00:58:49,820
Speaker 1: It.

1131
00:58:49,940 --> 00:58:51,980
Speaker 2: It happened. Right.

1132
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: And I think that is a good point, right, too,

1133
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: that you and I have had to Right. Is is

1134
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,750
Speaker 1: this idea of, well, were you really a Christian? Did

1135
00:59:01,790 --> 00:59:05,190
Speaker 1: you really love Jesus? I was. I did. Yeah. You know,

1136
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:08,990
Speaker 1: like it, you know, in the reality is we have

1137
00:59:09,050 --> 00:59:11,860
Speaker 1: these things and I'm not. trying to justify it, but like,

1138
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,620
Speaker 1: we all have these things. We're all addicted to something.

1139
00:59:14,820 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 2: Right.

1140
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:20,100
Speaker 1: Um, and, and, you know, it's easier for you to

1141
00:59:20,220 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: understand if I, if you can write me off as

1142
00:59:23,380 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: not a Christian and, But God's grace is more radical.

1143
00:59:26,380 --> 00:59:30,540
Speaker 1: The Christian walk and sanctification is more messy than we

1144
00:59:30,580 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: want to admit.

1145
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1146
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,180
Speaker 1: You had two other things real quickly. You say number

1147
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,700
Speaker 1: four that you've learned is healing wasn't a solo act.

1148
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:41,340
Speaker 1: And so cover that one.

1149
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:44,770
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I mentioned like with Abby and I.

1150
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,700
Speaker 2: It wasn't just I had to go work on myself

1151
00:59:48,780 --> 00:59:52,100
Speaker 2: and come back like she was fine. And I had

1152
00:59:52,140 --> 00:59:53,970
Speaker 2: to work my way up to her. We really had

1153
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: to work our way towards each other, you know. She

1154
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,580
Speaker 2: had to, again, like I said, realize her part. But

1155
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,420
Speaker 2: that was on her. Like, she had to figure that out.

1156
01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:06,830
Speaker 2: And I had to realize mine. And we kind of

1157
01:00:06,850 --> 01:00:09,610
Speaker 2: just had to work our way back towards each other.

1158
01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:11,930
Speaker 2: And there were things we had to work on that

1159
01:00:11,970 --> 01:00:14,190
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with each other. For instance, when

1160
01:00:14,210 --> 01:00:16,890
Speaker 2: I went to counseling, we barely talked about the alcohol abuse.

1161
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:19,300
Speaker 2: We talked more about things that happened to me when

1162
01:00:19,340 --> 01:00:22,170
Speaker 2: I was a kid. and little things there. Uh, my

1163
01:00:22,570 --> 01:00:24,550
Speaker 2: parents got divorced when I was two. I haven't seen

1164
01:00:24,570 --> 01:00:27,390
Speaker 2: my bio dad since I was three. I'm fine with it.

1165
01:00:27,430 --> 01:00:32,430
Speaker 2: I'm not looking to restart a relationship. My, my adopted dad, uh,

1166
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:34,570
Speaker 2: I have a wonderful relationship with him. That hole is

1167
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: filled with Jesus and Don Johnson. That's my dad's name.

1168
01:00:38,140 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 2: You know, like that, that's not a big deal. And so,

1169
01:00:41,340 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: but I still had to work through some of that stuff,

1170
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: the abandonment issues and probably why I was anxious as

1171
01:00:45,860 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 2: a kid. And so, and she, you know, she, uh,

1172
01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:53,190
Speaker 2: she had to hold it together. A lot of things

1173
01:00:53,230 --> 01:00:55,650
Speaker 2: she needed to heal from, from working in the abortion industry,

1174
01:00:55,690 --> 01:00:57,870
Speaker 2: which I mentioned, she's a pro-life speaker earlier. And so

1175
01:00:58,350 --> 01:01:00,690
Speaker 2: she worked at Planned Parenthood. And if you watch our movie,

1176
01:01:00,710 --> 01:01:03,430
Speaker 2: you know, she's seen some horrific things. And if you

1177
01:01:03,450 --> 01:01:06,270
Speaker 2: know anything about her story, she's, she was having nightmares. Well,

1178
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:09,270
Speaker 2: she kind of had to ignore her own struggles to

1179
01:01:09,470 --> 01:01:12,230
Speaker 2: lift me up, to basically carry me across the finish

1180
01:01:12,270 --> 01:01:16,030
Speaker 2: line because I was a mess. And so once I healed,

1181
01:01:16,550 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 2: her turned to fall apart, you know? And so she,

1182
01:01:19,870 --> 01:01:21,690
Speaker 2: It wasn't so like she had to go through her

1183
01:01:21,810 --> 01:01:23,820
Speaker 2: own things. For a while there, she couldn't cook dinner

1184
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: because she was having flashbacks, teasing babies back together whenever

1185
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:32,260
Speaker 2: she would try to make certain foods. And so we

1186
01:01:32,300 --> 01:01:36,580
Speaker 2: went through that together. And so I often say like, yeah,

1187
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,820
Speaker 2: God's timing. Like I had to sober up so she

1188
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,250
Speaker 2: could fall apart. And then we had to go through

1189
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:44,190
Speaker 2: that healing together. And so it's never so like when

1190
01:01:44,210 --> 01:01:46,990
Speaker 2: you're married, it's definitely not so like you become one flesh, right?

1191
01:01:47,620 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 2: like you have your own separate lives and opinions and

1192
01:01:49,660 --> 01:01:52,740
Speaker 2: that sort of thing, but you have one marriage, one

1193
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 2: set of children and one mission, you know? And, uh, yeah.

1194
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,030
Speaker 2: So like, like I said, I had to love her

1195
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,370
Speaker 2: as Christ loved the church and she had to submit

1196
01:02:03,410 --> 01:02:05,710
Speaker 2: to that, you know, like that's what we're commanded to

1197
01:02:05,770 --> 01:02:08,910
Speaker 2: do in scripture and what we're told. That's the, that's

1198
01:02:08,930 --> 01:02:11,169
Speaker 2: the model we're given. And it doesn't mean she has

1199
01:02:11,210 --> 01:02:14,110
Speaker 2: to do what I say. Like I've never been that

1200
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:17,580
Speaker 2: kind of guy. Um, but we really had to kind

1201
01:02:17,620 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 2: of look to each other for leadership and be that

1202
01:02:21,340 --> 01:02:24,010
Speaker 2: soft place to land. And that's what we were. That's

1203
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:27,470
Speaker 2: in healing. It was to do it that way. Yeah.

1204
01:02:27,510 --> 01:02:29,990
Speaker 2: But she didn't have to be like, but we had

1205
01:02:30,010 --> 01:02:31,830
Speaker 2: to listen to each other and understand what the other

1206
01:02:31,850 --> 01:02:33,730
Speaker 2: was going through. Does that make sense?

1207
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it's good.

1208
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,260
Speaker 1: And I, you know, I mentioned earlier, it's like, you know, once,

1209
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: once my wife, you know, it probably took two years

1210
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: in a sense for my wife's even like nervous system

1211
01:02:44,940 --> 01:02:47,970
Speaker 1: to just like, Okay. And then once, you know, and

1212
01:02:48,010 --> 01:02:50,930
Speaker 1: it kind of caught me off guard, right? Because I'm like, why,

1213
01:02:50,990 --> 01:02:53,890
Speaker 1: you know, I got defensive initially. Like, wait, why are

1214
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:56,110
Speaker 1: we rehashing this stuff? I thought we were over this.

1215
01:02:56,190 --> 01:02:59,970
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, I'm realizing that I wasn't, right?

1216
01:03:00,010 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: Like now that I actually do trust you, right? Now

1217
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: that there is that kind of foundation, now I'm realizing,

1218
01:03:05,380 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like you get in a

1219
01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: car accident, right? And the adrenaline is pumping through and

1220
01:03:10,980 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: they're like, are you okay?

1221
01:03:11,780 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 3: And you're like, yeah.

1222
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,820
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden you get home and

1223
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: after your body has time to just relax, you're like,

1224
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:19,370
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like I think something's wrong with my arm,

1225
01:03:19,490 --> 01:03:21,890
Speaker 1: you know? And I think that's what it was for

1226
01:03:22,180 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: us is like she, you know, the adrenaline, if you will,

1227
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,939
Speaker 1: wore off. And then she's like, oh, I think there's

1228
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: something here. And so I love that. Number five, which

1229
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:33,940
Speaker 1: I think we've kind of covered, but I think it's,

1230
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:38,070
Speaker 1: you know, worth repeating is you talk about always leaning

1231
01:03:38,350 --> 01:03:42,010
Speaker 1: on Christ. And, you know, you say like for me,

1232
01:03:42,090 --> 01:03:44,970
Speaker 1: sobriety became a lot more possible when I stopped trying

1233
01:03:45,010 --> 01:03:50,230
Speaker 1: to do it And so, you know, maybe just kind

1234
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:53,910
Speaker 1: of reiterate, what do you mean by always leaning on Christ?

1235
01:03:55,150 --> 01:03:56,170
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this.

1236
01:03:59,430 --> 01:04:01,650
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you know, that one was a save the

1237
01:04:01,670 --> 01:04:05,910
Speaker 2: best for last, right? Like, what was the true tool

1238
01:04:06,430 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 2: in the toolbox that I used to stay sober, keep

1239
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:16,230
Speaker 2: from drinking? And so, like I said, you know, When

1240
01:04:16,290 --> 01:04:18,210
Speaker 2: my wife put her arms around my neck and said

1241
01:04:18,250 --> 01:04:20,090
Speaker 2: what she said, and I realized, oh my gosh, I

1242
01:04:20,130 --> 01:04:23,670
Speaker 2: failed my family. In turn, I have failed God. Like

1243
01:04:23,770 --> 01:04:27,740
Speaker 2: I'm failing in my duty and responsibility to God. And

1244
01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: that book showed up and I was like, I forgot

1245
01:04:30,100 --> 01:04:32,300
Speaker 2: this was coming. And I just kind of took it

1246
01:04:32,380 --> 01:04:34,700
Speaker 2: as signs, even though I'm not like a science person,

1247
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,260
Speaker 2: but I was like, okay, God is moving, right? God

1248
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 2: is moving right now. I've got to move with him.

1249
01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 2: And so, and stop ignoring and just go with it.

1250
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,060
Speaker 2: And so I started looking like, what's a good Bible

1251
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,660
Speaker 2: study I could do? And I was talking to some

1252
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 2: really strong influences in my life. And I forget the

1253
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 2: name of it. It was into the breach as a cardinal,

1254
01:04:56,780 --> 01:05:00,060
Speaker 2: I think in Arizona that wrote this. And it's a

1255
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: real short letter basically to his diocese, a cardinal or

1256
01:05:03,780 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: priest or bishop. I'm sorry, not a cardinal, it was

1257
01:05:05,940 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 2: a bishop in Arizona. It's really just about men taking...

1258
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,180
Speaker 2: taking on that masculine role, uh, and that warrior role

1259
01:05:15,220 --> 01:05:18,430
Speaker 2: and that warrior spirit and, and really just kind of

1260
01:05:18,490 --> 01:05:24,770
Speaker 2: going headfirst against Satan and stopping like this LGBT nonsense. And,

1261
01:05:25,470 --> 01:05:27,030
Speaker 2: and a lot of things that are going on out

1262
01:05:27,050 --> 01:05:29,930
Speaker 2: there that are just hurting families and really kind of

1263
01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: hoisting up the God and what he wants for us

1264
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,260
Speaker 2: and his plan and purpose for us. And so, uh,

1265
01:05:38,790 --> 01:05:40,350
Speaker 2: That's kind of really what I leaned into is just

1266
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:42,690
Speaker 2: kind of, and then, so like being Catholic, we have

1267
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:46,050
Speaker 2: crucifixes in our house and a really tall, really big one.

1268
01:05:46,340 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: And we had a kneeler in front of it in

1269
01:05:47,660 --> 01:05:54,940
Speaker 2: case we wanted to pray. And, um, so, you know,

1270
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,190
Speaker 2: he's on it, you know, his physical, his body's on it.

1271
01:05:57,220 --> 01:05:57,419
Speaker 1: Right.

1272
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,740
Speaker 2: And when I kneel his feet, her eye level with

1273
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: the nails in it, blood running on his feet. And

1274
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,740
Speaker 2: so I pray, I had that constant reminder of his

1275
01:06:05,780 --> 01:06:09,510
Speaker 2: feet and the blood of Christ and why he died and, uh,

1276
01:06:09,590 --> 01:06:12,410
Speaker 2: forests and that sort of thing. And it, it, when

1277
01:06:12,430 --> 01:06:14,750
Speaker 2: you're talking about brokenness, it wasn't necessarily when I haven't

1278
01:06:14,770 --> 01:06:16,570
Speaker 2: put an orange on my neck. Yeah. That, that put

1279
01:06:16,590 --> 01:06:20,470
Speaker 2: a crash. I was desperately broken when I was at

1280
01:06:20,530 --> 01:06:22,470
Speaker 2: his feet and that's where I would just lay it

1281
01:06:22,510 --> 01:06:26,570
Speaker 2: all down and be like, just diarrhea of the soul,

1282
01:06:27,180 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 2: anything and everything alcohol related or not. I was, I

1283
01:06:30,340 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 2: was laying it down at his feet physically and literally

1284
01:06:33,820 --> 01:06:36,550
Speaker 2: and emotionally, spiritually, all the things that, And so I

1285
01:06:36,590 --> 01:06:38,950
Speaker 2: kind of had that visual to go with what was

1286
01:06:38,990 --> 01:06:43,660
Speaker 2: happening spiritually. So really, I just kind of committed to,

1287
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,820
Speaker 2: you know, I don't love praying. Who loves praying? I

1288
01:06:48,140 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 2: don't know. People can say they love praying. I think

1289
01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:52,180
Speaker 2: they're liars a lot of the time. They just say

1290
01:06:52,220 --> 01:06:55,420
Speaker 2: it because it's not good attrition. I mean, it's boring.

1291
01:06:55,580 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: So now it's not boring to me. It's not as

1292
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,620
Speaker 2: boring as it used to be. But like now I'd

1293
01:06:59,660 --> 01:07:02,580
Speaker 2: really kind of committed to prayer and. and certain studies,

1294
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,580
Speaker 2: maybe not even that had to do with alcohol or with, uh,

1295
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,580
Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily a Bible study. It was a Christian,

1296
01:07:09,620 --> 01:07:13,290
Speaker 2: like how to be a Christian study and like really

1297
01:07:13,350 --> 01:07:15,870
Speaker 2: trying to find my purpose and my role and what

1298
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:18,150
Speaker 2: God wants for me. Cause that's, and I think, you know,

1299
01:07:18,190 --> 01:07:21,090
Speaker 2: somebody asked me in a completely different post, like instead

1300
01:07:21,130 --> 01:07:23,750
Speaker 2: of asking, talking about mental health, we should ask what's

1301
01:07:23,770 --> 01:07:27,110
Speaker 2: wrong with middle-aged men. And I was like, uh, they

1302
01:07:27,140 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 2: live in their mom's basement. They're, brains are fried on

1303
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 2: biography and internet you know like that's what's wrong with

1304
01:07:33,220 --> 01:07:36,820
Speaker 2: them and they've been drastically and radically feminized and like

1305
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 2: they're not told they're not taught how to deal with

1306
01:07:40,580 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 2: man things like men would and i people would hear

1307
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:49,700
Speaker 2: me say oh that's whatever that's a patriarchy and all

1308
01:07:49,740 --> 01:07:51,780
Speaker 2: that kind of jazz but i'm like no that there

1309
01:07:51,820 --> 01:07:54,570
Speaker 2: is a difference i think As a teacher, you know,

1310
01:07:55,030 --> 01:07:56,550
Speaker 2: I work with a lot of women and they try

1311
01:07:56,570 --> 01:07:58,510
Speaker 2: to do things this way. And I was like, that's

1312
01:07:58,550 --> 01:07:59,610
Speaker 2: how a woman would do it.

1313
01:07:59,630 --> 01:07:59,850
Speaker 3: Yes.

1314
01:08:00,350 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: But I'm a coach. I raise my voice. I get up,

1315
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:08,390
Speaker 2: dust yourself off, rub some dirt on it. Come on,

1316
01:08:08,410 --> 01:08:12,980
Speaker 2: let's go. And anyway, I'm rambling now, but that's kind

1317
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,180
Speaker 2: of how it came to be is just really diving

1318
01:08:15,220 --> 01:08:18,480
Speaker 2: into prayer and study. And I go into the counseling

1319
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 2: and really just kind of putting in the work and

1320
01:08:20,460 --> 01:08:24,830
Speaker 2: embracing the suffering. Right. And realizing. how broken I was

1321
01:08:25,150 --> 01:08:28,030
Speaker 2: and that I couldn't fix it. You know, men are fixers.

1322
01:08:28,110 --> 01:08:31,769
Speaker 2: We think we can fix everything. And we can't always.

1323
01:08:31,930 --> 01:08:34,870
Speaker 2: Sometimes we just got to sit and suck in the

1324
01:08:34,930 --> 01:08:37,810
Speaker 2: muck and just let it be, just let it smell

1325
01:08:37,850 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 2: bad for a while, you know, and then come through it,

1326
01:08:41,300 --> 01:08:41,580
Speaker 2: you know.

1327
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,979
Speaker 1: You said something there, you know, I think that's a

1328
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 1: beautiful picture, right? About just like kneeling in front of

1329
01:08:48,900 --> 01:08:53,670
Speaker 1: Jesus and seeing his broken body. And it reminded me,

1330
01:08:53,710 --> 01:08:56,269
Speaker 1: there's this worship song, and I can't remember the name

1331
01:08:56,290 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: of it, but there's a line that says, if the

1332
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:02,620
Speaker 1: highest place I reach is at his feet, then I've

1333
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: done it all, right? And I think when it comes

1334
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:11,020
Speaker 1: to just overall, when it comes to coming to the

1335
01:09:11,140 --> 01:09:15,990
Speaker 1: end of yourself, it's realizing it's being broken, right? It's

1336
01:09:16,090 --> 01:09:20,980
Speaker 1: finally embracing that humility and that says, man, I can't, right?

1337
01:09:21,220 --> 01:09:23,300
Speaker 3: I need Jesus.

1338
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: And I just, you know, there's a lot of aspects

1339
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: I love about your story, but I love that aspect. So, Doug,

1340
01:09:28,220 --> 01:09:30,929
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You know, like I said, you

1341
01:09:30,970 --> 01:09:34,610
Speaker 1: played a role in my sobriety. And, you know, I

1342
01:09:34,670 --> 01:09:37,770
Speaker 1: think it's encouraging. It's why I encourage so many people

1343
01:09:37,790 --> 01:09:39,870
Speaker 1: to talk about it, right? There's a friend of mine,

1344
01:09:40,490 --> 01:09:44,980
Speaker 1: he says, you know, I recover loudly in Christ and To,

1345
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,940
Speaker 1: you know, encourage people and to help people not die

1346
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,979
Speaker 1: quietly without him. And, you know, sometimes there's like, oh, just,

1347
01:09:53,180 --> 01:09:55,660
Speaker 1: you know, keep it to yourself or whatnot. And so

1348
01:09:55,780 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: thank you, because to your point, you know, you talked

1349
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:03,500
Speaker 1: about how how there was even before you finally made

1350
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,139
Speaker 1: that decision, like you were starting to ask questions and you're, hey, what.

1351
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:07,860
Speaker 3: Are you doing?

1352
01:10:08,020 --> 01:10:11,059
Speaker 1: You know, and so your post and being open started

1353
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,470
Speaker 1: opening that door for me. And did it take a

1354
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:13,809
Speaker 1: little bit?

1355
01:10:13,900 --> 01:10:14,150
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1356
01:10:14,580 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: And so hopefully there's people listening to this that that's

1357
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,700
Speaker 1: their experience as well. So Doug, thank you.

1358
01:10:19,820 --> 01:10:20,440
Speaker 3: I appreciate you.

1359
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me on. Let me talk

1360
01:10:21,860 --> 01:10:28,610
Speaker 2: about it. Or ramble on aimlessly. Surrender.

1361
01:10:29,550 --> 01:10:33,790
Speaker 1: Like that is the word that keeps coming up when

1362
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:36,970
Speaker 1: I think about Doug's story. And especially that last part, right?

1363
01:10:37,010 --> 01:10:44,350
Speaker 1: Like kneeling in front of Jesus and finally surrendering. And

1364
01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:50,830
Speaker 1: I've been teaching more recently in preaching, and I keep

1365
01:10:50,850 --> 01:10:53,890
Speaker 1: coming back to John 21, and John 21 is the

1366
01:10:53,930 --> 01:11:00,939
Speaker 1: restoration of Peter. And there is that three times Jesus asks, Peter,

1367
01:11:00,979 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: do you love me? And it's very common for people

1368
01:11:04,060 --> 01:11:06,759
Speaker 1: to point out that there was three denials from Peter,

1369
01:11:06,820 --> 01:11:10,380
Speaker 1: and then there's three affirmations, and that's good. But I

1370
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 1: think that last In the last affirmation, Peter says something

1371
01:11:14,620 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: that I think is really important. He says, Jesus, you

1372
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,290
Speaker 1: know I love you. And here's why I think that's

1373
01:11:23,310 --> 01:11:26,970
Speaker 1: so important. Because Peter got into so much trouble in

1374
01:11:27,010 --> 01:11:30,750
Speaker 1: his life by not fully trusting Jesus. Jesus says, you're

1375
01:11:30,770 --> 01:11:32,430
Speaker 1: going to deny me. And Peter's like, come on, what

1376
01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:34,450
Speaker 1: are you talking about? And he's like chopping.

1377
01:11:34,170 --> 01:11:34,910
Speaker 3: People's ears off.

1378
01:11:34,939 --> 01:11:35,490
Speaker 2: And once....

1379
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:43,099
Speaker 1: Peter fully surrenders and says, you know what, Lord? You

1380
01:11:43,140 --> 01:11:48,810
Speaker 1: do know everything. You know everything. In that moment of

1381
01:11:48,850 --> 01:11:52,130
Speaker 1: full surrender, Jesus then does something amazing. He predicts Peter's death.

1382
01:11:53,310 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like, wait, what? Like, you know, Lord,

1383
01:11:57,810 --> 01:11:59,100
Speaker 1: you know I love you. And then.

1384
01:12:00,740 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 3: Jesus says, truly, truly.

1385
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:08,430
Speaker 1: And he says, basically, when you were young, like, You

1386
01:12:08,570 --> 01:12:10,710
Speaker 1: walk wherever you want, and when you're old, you're going

1387
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:13,190
Speaker 1: to stretch out your arms, and you're going to go

1388
01:12:13,210 --> 01:12:18,300
Speaker 1: where no man wants to go. And what I think

1389
01:12:18,380 --> 01:12:21,580
Speaker 1: is important to understand is that in that moment of

1390
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,180
Speaker 1: true surrender and why Jesus goes to predicting Peter's death

1391
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,140
Speaker 1: is because Peter then finally became the man he promised

1392
01:12:28,180 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: he would be. He promised, Lord, I'll follow you to death. Well,

1393
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,090
Speaker 1: then he denies him. But after he fully surrenders, he

1394
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:37,930
Speaker 1: actually becomes the person that he's always wanted to be and.

1395
01:12:37,890 --> 01:12:38,490
Speaker 3: He promised to be.

1396
01:12:39,570 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: And so surrender is so important. Like the people that

1397
01:12:44,380 --> 01:12:47,759
Speaker 1: I work with a lot, if I could boil down,

1398
01:12:48,300 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: why am I still doing the things I don't want

1399
01:12:49,820 --> 01:12:54,890
Speaker 1: to do? It comes down to full and complete surrender.

1400
01:12:55,070 --> 01:12:59,790
Speaker 1: Now listen, that is not to minimize surrender. physical effects

1401
01:12:59,910 --> 01:13:02,809
Speaker 1: or psychological issues, those are all part of the sin

1402
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,340
Speaker 1: and brokenness in the world. But I believe strongly that

1403
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: addiction still does involve choice. I don't subscribe to the

1404
01:13:10,180 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 1: addiction as disease model that says it's like cancer. Because

1405
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,530
Speaker 1: if alcohol isn't a choice, if addiction isn't a choice,

1406
01:13:18,570 --> 01:13:20,929
Speaker 1: then you don't have a choice to choose anything different

1407
01:13:20,970 --> 01:13:24,510
Speaker 1: or better. And so when it comes down to the

1408
01:13:24,650 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: choice aspect of that, We have to engage.

1409
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:28,839
Speaker 3: In full surrender.

1410
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,690
Speaker 1: So I love Doug's picture of being in front of,

1411
01:13:34,110 --> 01:13:38,050
Speaker 1: at the feet of Jesus, and just surrendering.

1412
01:13:40,590 --> 01:13:43,130
Speaker 3: I invite you. I invite you to surrender. What does

1413
01:13:43,150 --> 01:13:43,670
Speaker 3: that look like?

1414
01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:48,450
Speaker 1: What does it look like to fully and completely surrender?

1415
01:13:49,630 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our partner, Life Audio, lifeaudio.com. If

1416
01:13:52,220 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: you want to watch this episode, you can do so

1417
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,060
Speaker 1: on Apple. You can do so on Spotify. But if

1418
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,860
Speaker 1: you want to watch it and listen ad-free, you can

1419
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:04,190
Speaker 1: also do so at theveritasdaily.com. And so paying supporters get

1420
01:14:04,270 --> 01:14:09,030
Speaker 1: a chance to do the whole experience ad-free.

1421
01:14:09,630 --> 01:14:12,620
Speaker 3: Love you all. We'll see you here again next week.