1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,950 Speaker 2: I can promise you that our Lord Jesus walks the 3 00:00:07,070 --> 00:00:11,770 Speaker 2: stormy waves of our stormy stories with us and for us, 4 00:00:11,990 --> 00:00:13,220 Speaker 2: even if we can't see them. 5 00:00:17,570 --> 00:00:20,510 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss 6 00:00:20,590 --> 00:00:24,410 Speaker 1: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small. 7 00:00:24,870 --> 00:00:28,020 Speaker 1: I am your host, Jennifer Slattery, and I found few 8 00:00:28,110 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: things feel more painful than reaching out to someone we 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: love and receiving no response. We might wonder if we've 10 00:00:34,979 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: done something wrong, if they're upset with us, or if 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,180 Speaker 1: something has changed in our relationship. And when we desperately 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,140 Speaker 1: need to hear from God, his perceived silence can trigger 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,780 Speaker 1: those same fears. But what if we've misunderstood what his 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,060 Speaker 1: silence maybe means? And what if we are misunderstanding his 15 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:58,180 Speaker 1: heart towards us when we're in those places? Today, we're 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: continuing our series on hearing God to discuss those times 17 00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:03,510 Speaker 1: when it feels like God stopped speaking to us. And 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,610 Speaker 1: I've asked a woman I adore to join me, Judy Dunnigan, 19 00:01:06,730 --> 00:01:10,209 Speaker 1: author of The Loudest Roar, Living in the Unshakable Victory 20 00:01:10,250 --> 00:01:15,270 Speaker 1: of Christ, to discuss how to remain confident and restful, 21 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:21,339 Speaker 1: relaxed in God's love even when we can't hear his voice. Judy, 22 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us again. This is 23 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: your second time back. And I think you're going to 24 00:01:26,980 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: have to come on a third because I heard you 25 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:30,190 Speaker 1: just turned in a book that I'm probably going to 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,270 Speaker 1: be interested in. Yeah. 27 00:01:32,490 --> 00:01:34,670 Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer, thank you. I'm so excited to be with 28 00:01:34,690 --> 00:01:36,130 Speaker 2: you today. Thanks for inviting me. 29 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:40,370 Speaker 1: Judy Dunigan is an author, speaker, and former acquisitions editor 30 00:01:40,530 --> 00:01:44,149 Speaker 1: at Moody Publishers who served in women's ministry for 20 years. 31 00:01:44,450 --> 00:01:48,050 Speaker 1: She's passionate about helping people deepen their relationship with Jesus, 32 00:01:48,210 --> 00:01:52,090 Speaker 1: discover the power of scripture, and grow in their faith. 33 00:01:52,630 --> 00:01:57,590 Speaker 1: And hearing from God is an important aspect of that. 34 00:01:58,110 --> 00:02:03,169 Speaker 1: Can you share a time, Judy, when you desperately needed 35 00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: to hear from God? And he seemed silent. 36 00:02:07,420 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I'd love to share that. And this happened several times. 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,180 Speaker 2: You know, I'm in my 60s. Okay. But there was 38 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,430 Speaker 2: one time back when our family was moving a lot 39 00:02:16,490 --> 00:02:19,910 Speaker 2: from my husband's job. And we moved from Michigan to 40 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:23,790 Speaker 2: Colorado when our youngest daughter was just going into seventh grade. 41 00:02:24,030 --> 00:02:27,130 Speaker 2: And Jennifer, your mom, I think there's no worse time 42 00:02:27,169 --> 00:02:29,940 Speaker 2: to move a child than when they're starting middle school. 43 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,579 Speaker 2: And it was so hard for our daughter that we 44 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:36,090 Speaker 2: started to see it impact her health. And I was 45 00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: full of so much fear and anxiety, crying out to 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,460 Speaker 2: the Lord. She'd be at school and I'd be just 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,299 Speaker 2: in the word. I'd be trying to pray the Psalms, 48 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,380 Speaker 2: which usually calms my heart. But there was a lot 49 00:02:47,419 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: of other things going on in our family at that time, 50 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,489 Speaker 2: a lot of storms. And I really felt like God 51 00:02:52,530 --> 00:02:55,970 Speaker 2: was silent and he didn't see me, didn't really know 52 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:58,470 Speaker 2: or care about what I was going through. And I 53 00:02:58,510 --> 00:03:01,190 Speaker 2: got to go to a getaway retreat that a friend 54 00:03:01,230 --> 00:03:03,790 Speaker 2: invited me to. And we had a lot of time alone. 55 00:03:03,889 --> 00:03:06,230 Speaker 2: And being in the mountains, it's easy to feel closer 56 00:03:06,250 --> 00:03:08,570 Speaker 2: to the Lord. But one day I was outside by 57 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,739 Speaker 2: myself on a bench, just looking at the mountains and 58 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,060 Speaker 2: just praying and crying out. And at that time, the 59 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: only way I could really calm my heart, especially when 60 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,660 Speaker 2: I went to sleep, but even while I was out 61 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:22,700 Speaker 2: in the mountains that day, I had AirPods on listening 62 00:03:22,780 --> 00:03:27,340 Speaker 2: to worship music. And right before a certain song came on, 63 00:03:27,380 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: and I hadn't heard the CD before. It was actually 64 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: back in the CD days. 65 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 66 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,980 Speaker 2: I heard God. It felt like he whispered over me, Judy, 67 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: be still. Just be still. My heart was just, oh, 68 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,020 Speaker 2: I was all over the place. And right after that, 69 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:45,700 Speaker 2: the old hymn, Be Still and Know, song came on. 70 00:03:46,180 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: And I started listening to the lyrics. And to this day, Jennifer, 71 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:51,940 Speaker 2: it was as if I really feel it was as 72 00:03:52,020 --> 00:03:54,820 Speaker 2: if God was singing that song over me. It's be 73 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:57,740 Speaker 2: still my soul. And one of the lines of the 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,670 Speaker 2: lyrics says, the waves and winds still know his voice 75 00:04:02,750 --> 00:04:07,290 Speaker 2: who ruled them while he dwelt below. And for some reason, 76 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:11,380 Speaker 2: just that phrase, that sentence shifted something in me. And 77 00:04:11,410 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: I knew it was from a story in God's word. 78 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: And so I was able to look it up and 79 00:04:16,420 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: I'm just going to read a few verses where those 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,180 Speaker 2: lyrics came from. And the story is Jesus was in 81 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:25,219 Speaker 2: the boat with his disciples and they were just going 82 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:28,179 Speaker 2: across the lake, probably going to the next place Jesus 83 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,020 Speaker 2: was going to teach or heal people. Well, Jesus fell 84 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,810 Speaker 2: asleep in the boat and suddenly a storm furious squall, 85 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:38,620 Speaker 2: a storm came up and the disciples were terrified and 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,180 Speaker 2: they woke Jesus up and they're basically like, why are 87 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:44,180 Speaker 2: you sleeping on this watch? They thought they were going 88 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,529 Speaker 2: to drown and they were going to be killed. And 89 00:04:46,570 --> 00:04:48,330 Speaker 2: so this is found in Mark 4. I'm going to 90 00:04:48,410 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: read a few verses starting in verse 35. That day 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,620 Speaker 2: when evening came, he said to his disciples, Let us 92 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: go over to the other side. Leaving the crowd behind, 93 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:00,070 Speaker 2: they took him along just as he was in the boat. 94 00:05:00,350 --> 00:05:03,980 Speaker 2: There were also other boats with him. Furious squall came up, 95 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:06,250 Speaker 2: and the waves broke over the boat so that it 96 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:10,229 Speaker 2: was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on 97 00:05:10,270 --> 00:05:13,270 Speaker 2: a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, Teacher, 98 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:16,099 Speaker 2: don't you care if we drown? He got up. That 99 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: phrase right there was in the lyrics of that old hymn. 100 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: And for some reason, that day, it just calmed me. 101 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: It's like the God who can make a literal storm, 102 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: over a sea where waves are coming on a boat 103 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: and you think you're going to drown, he can calm 104 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: that with a word. Even the wind and waves obeyed 105 00:05:54,460 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: him when he walked this groaning earth. And that's the 106 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: same God who cares about the storms that we're going 107 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: through in our own lives, that we feel like maybe 108 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,700 Speaker 2: he's asleep or he doesn't care, but he's right there 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,750 Speaker 2: with us. And I'll never forget it, how God used 110 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:10,690 Speaker 2: that to calm my heart and open up a way 111 00:06:10,750 --> 00:06:13,589 Speaker 2: that I could trust him more and knew that he 112 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,380 Speaker 2: was ever aware of what I was going through and 113 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:18,119 Speaker 2: how worried I was for my daughter. 114 00:06:18,380 --> 00:06:21,380 Speaker 1: That's a beautiful story. Such a tender way that he 115 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: met you in that time. As you were talking, I 116 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:26,110 Speaker 1: was thinking of two things. The first thing I'm curious about, 117 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:31,409 Speaker 1: how long did that silent season continue before you got 118 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:31,969 Speaker 1: that word? 119 00:06:32,550 --> 00:06:35,510 Speaker 2: Well, I think we had moved there. It was about 120 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 2: five or six months that I was really worried about her. 121 00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: And it was getting very serious in terms of her 122 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,860 Speaker 2: health issues that she was dealing with because of all, 123 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,890 Speaker 2: just everything she was going through as a seventh grader 124 00:06:47,029 --> 00:06:49,789 Speaker 2: and the turmoil and being bullied and everything. 125 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:51,010 Speaker 3: Oh, wow. 126 00:06:51,190 --> 00:06:53,570 Speaker 2: Lonely in the school. I mean, it's hard to break 127 00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:57,770 Speaker 2: into a school in seventh grade or any teenager. And 128 00:06:57,860 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: so I was in the word. I was praying, but 129 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: I felt like I couldn't really sense the Lord caring 130 00:07:03,740 --> 00:07:06,860 Speaker 2: or his presence or his nearness. And some of it 131 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:10,110 Speaker 2: was because of me. I'm prone to anxiety. I joke 132 00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:12,350 Speaker 2: that I think it goes so far back that right 133 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:14,410 Speaker 2: after I was born, I was worried if I even 134 00:07:14,430 --> 00:07:19,980 Speaker 2: did that right. I had so much fear as a 135 00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:22,650 Speaker 2: child and it kind of calmed down in my 20s. 136 00:07:22,660 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: But when I became a mom, it went through the 137 00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: roof again because when my babies were sick, I just would. 138 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:31,050 Speaker 2: He's so full of fear because you always think the 139 00:07:31,110 --> 00:07:34,830 Speaker 2: worse or fear they'll be snatched and all the things. 140 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:37,790 Speaker 2: And so really a lot of that anxiety, I think 141 00:07:37,850 --> 00:07:41,090 Speaker 2: was clouding, even being able to hear from him. And 142 00:07:41,150 --> 00:07:44,310 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's always your fault. Sometimes he is quiet. 143 00:07:44,730 --> 00:07:47,190 Speaker 2: And in the storms of this life or the storms 144 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:50,070 Speaker 2: just keep raging and one thing after another, and you 145 00:07:50,090 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: think he doesn't care. He's distant. And that's where for me, 146 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,710 Speaker 2: That day he used an old hymn. I think that 147 00:07:57,750 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: was written in... I looked it up, 1752 by Katharina 148 00:08:02,260 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: von Schlegel. 149 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:04,980 Speaker 3: And you said the name, wow. 150 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 4: I don't know if I said it right, but I mean, 151 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 4: I love that those old hymns can reach you. There's 152 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:13,050 Speaker 4: other times I can share three stories at least where 153 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,210 Speaker 4: God used old hymns because I was a pastor's daughter 154 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:18,190 Speaker 4: and those are kind of dear to my heart. But 155 00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:20,410 Speaker 4: we have incredible worship music now. 156 00:08:20,470 --> 00:08:22,110 Speaker 2: And in many ways, that can be a way that 157 00:08:22,150 --> 00:08:24,890 Speaker 2: you communicate with God, that you're worshiping him through the 158 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:25,850 Speaker 2: lyrics of the song. 159 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: I love that he spoke to you in a way 160 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: that you could understand. You had a history with the Lord, 161 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,150 Speaker 1: it sounds like, connected to those hymns. I do want 162 00:08:35,170 --> 00:08:38,670 Speaker 1: to say, I totally get like when we battle anxiety, 163 00:08:38,950 --> 00:08:42,809 Speaker 1: it's not our fault, but our thoughts can get so loud. 164 00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:45,770 Speaker 1: And so I wonder if giving ourselves grace to say 165 00:08:45,830 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: when we're in an anxious spiral saying, yeah, it's hard 166 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:52,290 Speaker 1: for anything to break through my brain right now. But 167 00:08:52,390 --> 00:08:56,250 Speaker 1: God is still here. He still loves me. We'll put 168 00:08:56,330 --> 00:08:59,150 Speaker 1: a link in the show notes actually to that song 169 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:03,500 Speaker 1: because music is a powerful way of really connecting us 170 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,340 Speaker 1: with the Lord. What else I liked about what you 171 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,870 Speaker 1: were saying, though. So you received several invitations you said 172 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:15,569 Speaker 1: yes to. in order to get to where it fully landed. 173 00:09:15,670 --> 00:09:17,329 Speaker 1: And the reason I say this, like I'm thinking of 174 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 1: myself when I'm in a storm, when I am overwhelmed, 175 00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:25,220 Speaker 1: I tend to withdraw and isolate. And I love that 176 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: you went to a retreat someplace where you could surround 177 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,660 Speaker 1: yourself by other believers. You could surround yourself by truth 178 00:09:32,860 --> 00:09:36,500 Speaker 1: and worship, I'm assuming. But then also you said, so 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,550 Speaker 1: you heard the song, it made an impact. And here 180 00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:41,530 Speaker 1: I'm thinking like, I would just maybe be like, okay, well, 181 00:09:41,550 --> 00:09:44,030 Speaker 1: that's good. And moving on with my day and it 182 00:09:44,050 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: would hit, but it would maybe hit kind of small, 183 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: but it's almost like you sensed in that, how I'm 184 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,699 Speaker 1: interpreting this, that there was still more. And so you 185 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:56,530 Speaker 1: took that song and then you went to scripture. And 186 00:09:56,570 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: so it's almost like God built the conversation and, And 187 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:02,420 Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to point that out to listeners, 188 00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:06,410 Speaker 1: I wonder how many times God issues us an invitation 189 00:10:06,890 --> 00:10:10,290 Speaker 1: to go deeper. And maybe we're just not thinking that way, right? 190 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,829 Speaker 1: Like it's not on our radar. We're new to faith. 191 00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:16,110 Speaker 1: Or maybe we just sometimes I think it takes things to... 192 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,460 Speaker 1: sink in. But I wonder for those who maybe are 193 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,740 Speaker 1: receiving an invitation that is outside of their awareness, if 194 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,500 Speaker 1: there's a practice of just, huh, I wonder if there 195 00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: was something that God was, a way he was reaching 196 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,170 Speaker 1: out to me and then expanding on that later. Oh yeah. 197 00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:36,010 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened to me. I'll tell you 198 00:10:36,050 --> 00:10:38,630 Speaker 2: more about that getaway because as a dear friend, I've 199 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:40,750 Speaker 2: known many years and she knew what our daughter was 200 00:10:40,809 --> 00:10:43,290 Speaker 2: going through and just other things in our family. She 201 00:10:43,309 --> 00:10:45,969 Speaker 2: was praying for us and she had been invited to 202 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:49,709 Speaker 2: this retreat of maybe six women. And the whole point 203 00:10:49,809 --> 00:10:51,630 Speaker 2: was to get in the mountains and hear from the 204 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:54,020 Speaker 2: Lord or spend time with him. And so it wasn't 205 00:10:54,059 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 2: a big retreat and I'll never forget it. It's in 206 00:10:56,860 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: the mountains as a ministry started by a couple. It 207 00:10:59,980 --> 00:11:02,020 Speaker 2: was called Praise Mountain. I don't even know if it's 208 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,460 Speaker 2: still going on, but we had our own cabins if 209 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,290 Speaker 2: we wanted, which I needed to be alone too. We 210 00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: were sent out, the six or seven of us as women, 211 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: be alone with the Lord and bring something back that's 212 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:15,850 Speaker 2: significant of how he met you. So that was why 213 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:18,030 Speaker 2: I went out there and I'm sitting on that bench 214 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:21,940 Speaker 2: by those crosses. And I'll never forget it. I journaled something, 215 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,870 Speaker 2: like a surrender prayer to God about my Kelly, my daughter. 216 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:28,850 Speaker 2: And this was before I heard the song. That happened 217 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:31,530 Speaker 2: the next morning when I was in the cabin, actually. 218 00:11:31,809 --> 00:11:34,210 Speaker 2: It wasn't on the bench. It was, doesn't matter. But 219 00:11:34,250 --> 00:11:36,450 Speaker 2: that's when that song was played for me. But while 220 00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:38,890 Speaker 2: I'm at those two crosses, I prayed kind of a 221 00:11:38,950 --> 00:11:41,530 Speaker 2: prayer of surrender. And like, I don't hear from you, God. 222 00:11:41,550 --> 00:11:42,900 Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to heal or I 223 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: don't know what your plan is. But I surrender this 224 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,910 Speaker 2: to you. And I took a little stick back to... 225 00:11:48,890 --> 00:11:51,150 Speaker 2: the women just to share, it had been by those 226 00:11:51,210 --> 00:11:53,809 Speaker 2: two crosses. And it changed my life. And God knew 227 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:56,729 Speaker 2: that was waiting for me when my friend Linda invited me. 228 00:11:57,290 --> 00:12:00,380 Speaker 2: And just those getaways with God are so significant. The 229 00:12:00,410 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 2: Lord has opened the door for me to do that 230 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: several times when I know I need to get away 231 00:12:05,140 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: and center myself on him and listen and play the 232 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,380 Speaker 2: praise music, take my journal. It's changed my walk with 233 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:15,179 Speaker 2: him over and over. That's beautiful. 234 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: The other thing, you keep saying like... stay on this event. 235 00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: But I'm also listening to you. I'm thinking of the 236 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:29,310 Speaker 1: importance of preparing ourselves to hear from him. Sometimes I 237 00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:32,910 Speaker 1: can get so busy, especially like on Sunday morning, and 238 00:12:33,010 --> 00:12:35,750 Speaker 1: I want to do one more thing before heading to church. 239 00:12:35,860 --> 00:12:39,100 Speaker 1: And so I'm arriving at worship late and I'm distracted 240 00:12:39,179 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: and I'm frazzled, or maybe it's my morning Bible time 241 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Again, busy. And for me lately, I'm sensing, 242 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,790 Speaker 1: my spiritual mentor actually asked me, I told her I've 243 00:12:50,830 --> 00:12:53,870 Speaker 1: been trying to use, I have a fur baby, Bean, 244 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:54,510 Speaker 1: my dog. 245 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,140 Speaker 2: So, and I walk. 246 00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:02,430 Speaker 1: Her a lot and I've been trying to train my mind. 247 00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:02,809 Speaker 2: Okay. 248 00:13:02,890 --> 00:13:06,870 Speaker 1: Driving time is Jesus time. Walking being is Jesus time. 249 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:10,069 Speaker 1: And I was telling my spiritual mentor about this and 250 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:12,660 Speaker 1: she's like, well, what are you doing to orient your heart? 251 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 3: That's her phrase. 252 00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:17,650 Speaker 1: Like basically, turn myself to position myself to receive from God. 253 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:20,050 Speaker 3: And she suggested that I. 254 00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: Listened to music actually, as I do. So I think 255 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: sometimes it can be helpful if we plan ahead, like 256 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,900 Speaker 1: where can I go? That will be quiet. What tools 257 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: do I need? Whether it's music or maybe a snuggie 258 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: blanket or a cup of coffee. 259 00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 3: Is that part of your practice too? 260 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:39,569 Speaker 1: As far as when you're really wanting to connect with 261 00:13:39,610 --> 00:13:41,809 Speaker 1: the Lord, how much does preparation play into that? 262 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:45,770 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you'd ask that because it's also in Mark. 263 00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:48,300 Speaker 2: I don't remember if it's Mark 4 or Mark 6, 264 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:52,420 Speaker 2: but I had a mentor that I went to meet 265 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,570 Speaker 2: with when I was really struggling. I was a women's 266 00:13:56,610 --> 00:13:58,710 Speaker 2: leader at our church and I was getting burned out. 267 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:02,190 Speaker 2: I was exhausted and I went to meet with her 268 00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:04,410 Speaker 2: and she's listening to me and she goes, Judy, you 269 00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: need Kara time. And I go, what's Kara time? And 270 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,220 Speaker 2: she said, it's a getaway with the Lord. And then Mark, 271 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,460 Speaker 2: there's a time when the disciples had just been out, 272 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: like he had sent them out to share about him. 273 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,370 Speaker 2: And they came back all excited about ministry, but he 274 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:22,850 Speaker 2: could tell they were tired. And he says these words, 275 00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:27,670 Speaker 2: come away to a quiet place and rest a while. 276 00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: So Kara is an acronym. Come awake, Rest a while. C-A-R-A. 277 00:14:32,380 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: And my mentor said, I'm going to hold you accountable. 278 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,140 Speaker 2: You got to have a little getaway with God. And 279 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,900 Speaker 2: for me, I could get away on a Saturday. The 280 00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:42,810 Speaker 2: way I got equipped or prepared was I knew I 281 00:14:42,810 --> 00:14:45,630 Speaker 2: had a music I love that I was going to 282 00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:47,790 Speaker 2: play in the car while I drove into the mountains. 283 00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:52,290 Speaker 2: I had my journal. I had my Bible. And it 284 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:54,980 Speaker 2: was a precious time with the Lord. And she wanted 285 00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:56,780 Speaker 2: to know what day I was going to do that 286 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,350 Speaker 2: so she could bury it for me. And it was 287 00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:01,630 Speaker 2: so life changing that I brought it back to my 288 00:15:01,690 --> 00:15:04,550 Speaker 2: leadership team, the women who were partnering with me in 289 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:07,290 Speaker 2: the ministry and asked them to do that and let 290 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:09,390 Speaker 2: me know when they were going and I pray with them. 291 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:12,550 Speaker 2: So pray for them. And so it's really like a 292 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:14,790 Speaker 2: getaway with the Lord. Now, you can't do that all 293 00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:18,770 Speaker 2: the time, but that's one example of the few times 294 00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:20,690 Speaker 2: I've done that. I do it about once a year, 295 00:15:20,770 --> 00:15:23,310 Speaker 2: I think, where it's intentional, like the whole day and 296 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:26,070 Speaker 2: just to try to hear from the Lord and worship 297 00:15:26,130 --> 00:15:29,010 Speaker 2: him and spend time with him. But also, I'm an 298 00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:32,750 Speaker 2: empty nester and now retired from working full time. I 299 00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:35,950 Speaker 2: love to get up early and I play praise music 300 00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:39,670 Speaker 2: and do that first and then enter into either do 301 00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:42,670 Speaker 2: a Bible study or read a devotional. And I try 302 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: to journal a prayer to the Lord most days. So 303 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,590 Speaker 2: it really depends what season of life you're in, though. True, absolutely. 304 00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:51,860 Speaker 1: We need to take a break to listen to our sponsors. 305 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: When we come back, I would love to hear, Judy, 306 00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:59,700 Speaker 1: what are some things you do when your anxiety becomes 307 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: really loud to help you recognize God's presence, maybe hear 308 00:16:04,750 --> 00:16:07,370 Speaker 1: his voice above all the mental chaos. 309 00:16:07,390 --> 00:16:16,500 Speaker 3: So we'll talk about that when we get back. And 310 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: we are back. 311 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,540 Speaker 1: Judy, when we started this conversation, you talked about how 312 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: you have anxiety and most of our listeners do as well. 313 00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: I do as well. 314 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: What do you do when your anxiety is so loud? 315 00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:35,270 Speaker 1: It makes it really difficult, if not impossible to sense 316 00:16:35,330 --> 00:16:36,930 Speaker 1: God's presence and to hear his voice. 317 00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:40,310 Speaker 2: Like we talked about before, sometimes our minds are just 318 00:16:40,410 --> 00:16:43,330 Speaker 2: all over the place when we're anxious or fearful. It's 319 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:47,030 Speaker 2: hard to concentrate. So even reading a psalm out loud 320 00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:51,460 Speaker 2: is so helpful. I discovered just a few months ago, 321 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: our little two-year-old granddaughter had to have a biopsy and 322 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:58,780 Speaker 2: something off her face. And thankfully, she's fine. But boy, 323 00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:03,450 Speaker 2: I couldn't sleep. I couldn't think straight. And I went 324 00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:07,570 Speaker 2: to Google and I found a prayer book. that someone 325 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: prays based on Psalm 91. And it was a narrator 326 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: with an English accent, which I find calming. And it 327 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: was just like, God just had it there waiting for 328 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: me because the narrator first quoted all of Psalm 91. 329 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 2: And so I'm in bed just listening to that, not reading, 330 00:17:24,010 --> 00:17:26,129 Speaker 2: just trying to fall asleep. And then there was this 331 00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:30,209 Speaker 2: powerful prayer based at Psalm 91. It was remarkable. I've 332 00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:32,370 Speaker 2: shared that link with a lot of my friends who 333 00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:35,060 Speaker 2: struggle with anxiety as well. You know, Jennifer, there's a 334 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: lot of things to be afraid of right now. There's 335 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: so much anxiety. Anxiety has gone through the roof for 336 00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:44,020 Speaker 2: so many. And I think that's one thing that's really 337 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 2: helped me. And I've already mentioned the music. That's very 338 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,730 Speaker 2: calming and make my mind concentrate on the lyrics of 339 00:17:50,770 --> 00:17:53,830 Speaker 2: the song, especially when trying to fall back asleep. That 340 00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:55,550 Speaker 2: is a phenomenal thing. 341 00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:58,590 Speaker 1: On that, when you say make your mind, so what 342 00:17:58,630 --> 00:18:01,270 Speaker 1: does that look like practically to make your mind focus 343 00:18:01,350 --> 00:18:01,869 Speaker 1: on the lyrics? 344 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,379 Speaker 2: It's just listen to the lyrics. And it really, at 345 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:07,710 Speaker 2: least for me, it crowds out all the what ifs 346 00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:12,310 Speaker 2: when our little toddler was going into surgery for the biopsy. 347 00:18:12,910 --> 00:18:15,410 Speaker 2: That was during the day. And I have a place 348 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:17,290 Speaker 2: where I have my quiet time in the morning and 349 00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:20,330 Speaker 2: I was just in Psalm 91, just reading it out loud. 350 00:18:20,369 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 2: I wrote a prayer for her based on Psalm 91. 351 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,290 Speaker 2: I listened to it. That song, there's different songs that 352 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:30,189 Speaker 2: are based in Psalm 91. And so it's being intentional 353 00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:32,630 Speaker 2: to do all of that. And God's word talks about 354 00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:36,010 Speaker 2: keeping your thoughts captive to truth. And that is one 355 00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:39,700 Speaker 2: way I do it, especially for someone dealing with anxiety is, okay, 356 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,139 Speaker 2: I'm going to read this Psalm out loud. I mean, 357 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 2: famous Psalm 23, read that out loud, calm you. And 358 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:49,420 Speaker 2: even like how God used the Be Still song over me. 359 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:52,629 Speaker 2: I play that more often than you know, so. And 360 00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:54,820 Speaker 2: I did just finish writing a book. It's just in 361 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: editing now. But I tell the story about Be Still 362 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: and the music. And it was fun to write about 363 00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:04,210 Speaker 2: that so many years later because that little seventh grader 364 00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:06,369 Speaker 2: I was praying for is now a mama of four 365 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:09,590 Speaker 2: and just moved near us. She and her husband. So 366 00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:11,340 Speaker 2: we're pretty excited to have them close. 367 00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:14,369 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like how you listen to things 368 00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:16,350 Speaker 1: at night too, because I think for a lot of people, 369 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:19,630 Speaker 1: that's when the anxiety can get really loud. I think 370 00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:24,859 Speaker 1: sometimes we can become hyper vigilant when God seems silent, 371 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,500 Speaker 1: where we begin to like analyze every thought or circumstance 372 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: thinking that we're going to miss him, especially if we're 373 00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: driven by anxiety. I think we're going to actually going 374 00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: to have an anxious, our initial perspective is some kind 375 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: of anxious response, right? 376 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,700 Speaker 2: Like what if scenario. 377 00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:42,900 Speaker 1: So how can we shift that from I'm anxious, Pursuing 378 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,740 Speaker 1: him because I'm afraid he's mad at me and I 379 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: need to do this. to I'm pursuing him because he's 380 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,219 Speaker 1: my father and he welcomes me close. So like instead 381 00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:53,929 Speaker 1: of from a place of fear, more from a place 382 00:19:54,250 --> 00:19:57,450 Speaker 1: of relationship and I guess trust. 383 00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:59,980 Speaker 2: I think a lot of that can depend on how 384 00:20:00,619 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: your parents treated you growing up. I have a friend 385 00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 2: whose father was so harsh and mean, verbally abusive. And 386 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:10,570 Speaker 2: I was recently with her and she really struggles believing 387 00:20:10,790 --> 00:20:14,570 Speaker 2: that she's not disappointing God to the point she's just 388 00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:17,869 Speaker 2: overwhelmed with fear about that. And we were able to 389 00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:20,970 Speaker 2: talk about what a loving father he is, that he 390 00:20:21,030 --> 00:20:23,940 Speaker 2: loves us unconditionally, that he wants us to come to 391 00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: him no matter what our story is, no matter what 392 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: we've done. We have full access to our God through 393 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: prayer and being in his presence as we worship him 394 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,650 Speaker 2: and we're in his word. And so rather than, you know, 395 00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:39,310 Speaker 2: if there's a fear in approaching God because you're not 396 00:20:39,369 --> 00:20:42,730 Speaker 2: sure you're worthy or. You think he's angry at you. 397 00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:44,869 Speaker 2: You can be honest with God. Tell him that's how 398 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:47,290 Speaker 2: you feel. He knows how you feel and ask him 399 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: to show you that he is safe and to be 400 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,820 Speaker 2: able to approach him. There's a verse in Hebrews that 401 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: says we can approach him in prayer, the throne room, 402 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,860 Speaker 2: and we'll find mercy and grace there. He's the most 403 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:02,110 Speaker 2: loving God. And I love to remind people that he 404 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,870 Speaker 2: loves us unconditionally. 405 00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:08,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Instead of going down that anxious spiral, like, God, 406 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,060 Speaker 1: you must be mad. You must be displeased. What are 407 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,969 Speaker 1: some truths you shifted back onto? 408 00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:17,209 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's, again, where the Psalms are so helpful. 409 00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:21,429 Speaker 2: The Psalmist David was in a lot of fearful. situations. 410 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:24,409 Speaker 2: He wrote several of his Psalms while he was in 411 00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:27,169 Speaker 2: a cave hiding from Saul, who was wanting to kill him. 412 00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:29,950 Speaker 2: And what I love about David is how honest he 413 00:21:30,210 --> 00:21:33,030 Speaker 2: was with God in some of those prayers in Psalm 13. 414 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: It says, how long, Lord, how long, how long must 415 00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 2: I go through this? And it's almost like he's pretty 416 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,859 Speaker 2: testy with God and he's asking those wrestling questions. And 417 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: I'm not sure we fully understand we could do that. 418 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,540 Speaker 2: He wants us to come to him. It's like if 419 00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:51,020 Speaker 2: you're a parent listening and you have a child who's 420 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,379 Speaker 2: got all this stuff built up and they're afraid to 421 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,460 Speaker 2: come to you. You want them to come to you 422 00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:58,590 Speaker 2: with their anger and their hard questions. And it's such 423 00:21:58,609 --> 00:22:01,310 Speaker 2: a beautiful psalm, Psalm 13. It gives you permission of 424 00:22:01,390 --> 00:22:03,530 Speaker 2: how to do that. But at the end of that psalm, 425 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,989 Speaker 2: David turns to praise. It's almost like he has to 426 00:22:07,050 --> 00:22:10,470 Speaker 2: reach back and remember where God was faithful. So I 427 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:12,310 Speaker 2: think some of the attributes that mean the most to 428 00:22:12,369 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: me is that he's faithful, that our God is always true. 429 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: And I've mentioned that he's loving and compassionate and so 430 00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: patient with us. And for those who deal with anxiety, 431 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 2: I think some of my favorite verses are Philippians 4, 432 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,980 Speaker 2: where we're told, don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. 433 00:22:29,050 --> 00:22:31,230 Speaker 2: Tell God your needs and don't forget to thank him 434 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:33,830 Speaker 2: for his answers. If you do this, the peace of 435 00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:36,590 Speaker 2: God will guard your heart and your mind as you 436 00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:39,730 Speaker 2: rest or trust in Christ Jesus. I had to cling 437 00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:41,889 Speaker 2: to those verses as a little girl. That's when I 438 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:44,830 Speaker 2: first learned those verses. And it's easier said than done, 439 00:22:44,890 --> 00:22:48,810 Speaker 2: isn't it, Jennifer? Don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. 440 00:22:48,869 --> 00:22:50,669 Speaker 2: Sounds a little bit, you want to roll your eyes 441 00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:55,020 Speaker 2: and say, but I keep praying about everything and nothing's changing. 442 00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:57,820 Speaker 2: And it's okay just to be honest with God and 443 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:01,340 Speaker 2: to show your frustration. And he died to give us, 444 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: Jesus died to save our sins through his death and resurrection, 445 00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:08,090 Speaker 2: but save us from our sins, but also to give 446 00:23:08,150 --> 00:23:10,970 Speaker 2: us full access to him in prayer. Prayer is so 447 00:23:11,010 --> 00:23:14,010 Speaker 2: much about relationship with rather than just, oh, I've got 448 00:23:14,030 --> 00:23:16,130 Speaker 2: to say the right words or I've got to only 449 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:19,390 Speaker 2: ask him for things. We can enter into prayer through 450 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:22,899 Speaker 2: worship and just loving him as well. One of my 451 00:23:22,940 --> 00:23:26,220 Speaker 2: best friends deals with anxiety as well. And so I 452 00:23:26,260 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: wanted to mention this. We text each other probably once 453 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,870 Speaker 2: a week. She's a grandmother of 14 and I have 454 00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:35,780 Speaker 2: seven grandkids. So we're busy praying grandmas and she'll be 455 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: worried about one of them who just broke his ankle 456 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,660 Speaker 2: in soccer. And she'll text me and say, pray for him. 457 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: She'll use his name. And just knowing my point of 458 00:23:44,780 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: bringing that up is to try to have friends who 459 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 2: will pray for you and who are similar to you 460 00:23:49,550 --> 00:23:52,270 Speaker 2: even because there's no judgment. I never go to her 461 00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:55,090 Speaker 2: like you worry a lot because we're so much alike. 462 00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:57,869 Speaker 2: So it's really sweet to know someone's praying for you. 463 00:23:58,890 --> 00:24:01,050 Speaker 1: We need to take a break to hear from our sponsors, 464 00:24:01,150 --> 00:24:04,180 Speaker 1: but first, two quick things. My newest novel, The Cowboy's 465 00:24:04,220 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: Surprise Child, is a heartwarming story of second chances and 466 00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:12,110 Speaker 1: unexpected blessings, and it's available for pre-order on Amazon. 467 00:24:12,430 --> 00:24:12,810 Speaker 3: Second. 468 00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:17,110 Speaker 1: We're inviting listeners to join our volunteer Faith Over Fear 469 00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:20,290 Speaker 1: content planning team. You'll help us address topics relevant to 470 00:24:20,350 --> 00:24:23,650 Speaker 1: you while bringing greater hope, joy, and peace to others, 471 00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:28,050 Speaker 1: including those who are really struggling. If interested, contact me 472 00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:32,910 Speaker 1: through the link in the show notes. And we're back. So, 473 00:24:42,460 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about showing up even when we don't think 474 00:24:46,940 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: God is speaking or maybe we think he's not going 475 00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:54,030 Speaker 1: to speak. Talk to me about the consistency, what practices 476 00:24:54,170 --> 00:24:58,730 Speaker 1: you do to continually turning your soul towards him. Well, 477 00:24:58,750 --> 00:25:01,470 Speaker 1: I've shared quite a few of those, but I continually 478 00:25:01,530 --> 00:25:01,909 Speaker 1: do it. 479 00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: For me, music is huge. I have it playing in 480 00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:08,220 Speaker 2: the house. I know what songs I love. I created 481 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,889 Speaker 2: a worship playlist, even for my book, The Loudest Roar 482 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:15,990 Speaker 2: on Spotify. And I listen to those songs. They correspond 483 00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:18,930 Speaker 2: with all the chapters that I'm going to do that 484 00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:21,580 Speaker 2: for my new book. That has been huge for me 485 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,420 Speaker 2: because there's such great music out and the lyrics are 486 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: so profound and it's the way you're worshiping God. And 487 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 2: so I do that and I read scripture out loud. 488 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,940 Speaker 2: I try to pray out loud. I have a I'm 489 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: so grateful for my husband. We read five Psalms every 490 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: morning together and pray together for our family. And I 491 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: know that's a gift, a rare gift, but I'm so 492 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,340 Speaker 2: grateful for that. And then even just getting out in nature, 493 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,619 Speaker 2: I think is incredible to get some exercise and wherever 494 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: you live, that whatever area you find beautiful to get 495 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: out and worship him and just be with him, just 496 00:25:57,020 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 2: be quiet and listen. To me, our aspen trees in 497 00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:03,740 Speaker 2: Colorado are beautiful. The sound of them, the beauty of 498 00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 2: them in the fall. I'll often just have my journal. 499 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 2: I discovered a pond in one of my favorite parks 500 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,419 Speaker 2: that I hike in. And so I go there now 501 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: and just watch the beautiful ducks swimming, sit and just 502 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:19,629 Speaker 2: spend time with them. Just being quiet is wonderful. I 503 00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:23,100 Speaker 2: think it's so helpful in this very distracting world in 504 00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:24,210 Speaker 2: which we live. Yeah. 505 00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:26,500 Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing too, is you just prioritize that. 506 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: I think sometimes for me, I have to constantly remind myself, 507 00:26:30,580 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: like life can feel so busy that I think like, well, 508 00:26:33,580 --> 00:26:35,340 Speaker 1: I don't really have the time, but then when I 509 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,659 Speaker 1: remind myself, how do I not have the time? If 510 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,700 Speaker 1: he is going to take care of absolutely everything else. 511 00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:44,330 Speaker 1: And if he is the one who meets my deepest 512 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: needs and, then I'm going to make this time. I 513 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,150 Speaker 1: know you're on the board of a ministry actually, who's Dr. 514 00:26:51,170 --> 00:26:53,330 Speaker 1: Marcus Warner has been on here numerous times. And so 515 00:26:53,369 --> 00:26:54,869 Speaker 1: I know just from talking to you that you're on 516 00:26:54,910 --> 00:26:58,430 Speaker 1: the board of deeper walk international. One of the things 517 00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:01,369 Speaker 1: I find helpful is they had, I don't know how 518 00:27:01,430 --> 00:27:03,750 Speaker 1: long ago they put this out and I'll see if 519 00:27:03,790 --> 00:27:05,950 Speaker 1: I can find it again to share in the show notes, 520 00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:10,420 Speaker 1: but Emmanuel journaling and where they guide you into this 521 00:27:11,060 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: interactive journaling with God. But I want to tell you, Judy, like, 522 00:27:14,790 --> 00:27:17,430 Speaker 1: Just this morning, I was having this conversation with God. 523 00:27:17,450 --> 00:27:20,250 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there doing my manual journaling and I'm telling 524 00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:23,050 Speaker 1: him I'm frustrated because he hasn't been talking to me 525 00:27:23,230 --> 00:27:26,450 Speaker 1: in the past. It's been a while in my journaling time. 526 00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: And it's tempting when I'm frustrated to just not show up. Like, 527 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:33,700 Speaker 1: you're not going to talk to me anyway, God. So 528 00:27:33,780 --> 00:27:37,690 Speaker 1: I'm just going to skip this journaling time. And... move 529 00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:41,219 Speaker 1: on to cleaning my shower. But I know just like 530 00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: with my husband, right? Like I'm not always going to 531 00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:48,060 Speaker 1: have this deep romantic moment with him every time we connect, 532 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:51,420 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean I quit going on date nights. Right. 533 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,609 Speaker 2: Right. Right. Yeah. And that's where I think his work 534 00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:58,550 Speaker 2: comes into play because he, It's an inspired word of God. 535 00:27:58,570 --> 00:28:01,810 Speaker 2: I have a friend who lost her three-year-old to complications 536 00:28:01,869 --> 00:28:02,570 Speaker 2: from strep. 537 00:28:02,750 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: Wow. 538 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: She didn't know Jesus yet. She hadn't even been going 539 00:28:05,940 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 2: to church really. She did when she was a child. 540 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,140 Speaker 2: And her story is so beautiful. But she had someone 541 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,030 Speaker 2: who came alongside her after his death. He was only three. 542 00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:19,570 Speaker 2: And she said, how about you and I get together 543 00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,419 Speaker 2: and we look at the book of John? And for 544 00:28:22,460 --> 00:28:25,619 Speaker 2: those who don't yet know Jesus as their Savior or 545 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,470 Speaker 2: just kind of figuring out this walk with Christ, I 546 00:28:28,530 --> 00:28:31,430 Speaker 2: think that is an incredible place to start the Gospel 547 00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:35,500 Speaker 2: of John because it's when Jesus walked this groaning earth 548 00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:37,780 Speaker 2: and just to see the miracles, but just to see 549 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,750 Speaker 2: his heart for his disciples who were like brothers to him. 550 00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:45,210 Speaker 2: And my friend Kim came to know Jesus as her 551 00:28:45,310 --> 00:28:48,110 Speaker 2: own savior because of just dwelling in the word. And 552 00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:51,010 Speaker 2: that's often how our God speaks to us through his 553 00:28:51,090 --> 00:28:53,980 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit as we are in the word. He has used, 554 00:28:54,340 --> 00:28:57,270 Speaker 2: like I said, that one phrase from that old hymn 555 00:28:57,330 --> 00:28:59,969 Speaker 2: that was taken from the story of Jesus being asleep 556 00:29:00,010 --> 00:29:02,730 Speaker 2: in the boat. And I remember I journaled, it sure 557 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,890 Speaker 2: seems like you're asleep in the boat or could care 558 00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:07,020 Speaker 2: less what's happening. Where are you? 559 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 560 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,540 Speaker 2: And it's really a part of the walk with Christ 561 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: to be that honest with him and just seek him 562 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,739 Speaker 2: and search for him. And because he never leaves us 563 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,100 Speaker 2: or forsakes us, even if it feels like he has, 564 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: it's a promise. He will not leave or forsake us. 565 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,170 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I'm also wondering, as you were talking and 566 00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: just some of the creative ways we can connect with God, 567 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:30,580 Speaker 1: for those who especially are new to the faith or 568 00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: really are struggling to sense his heart, maybe they could 569 00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:36,970 Speaker 1: watch The Chosen, which I've heard a lot of people 570 00:29:36,990 --> 00:29:41,940 Speaker 1: have said that's really helped them picture. Jesus in a personal, 571 00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:45,470 Speaker 1: relational way. As we close, is there one thing you 572 00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:49,310 Speaker 1: would say to the person who they're in that storm 573 00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:53,420 Speaker 1: you were in back when... your daughter was really suffering 574 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,780 Speaker 1: and they're on their knees, they're begging God, I want 575 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,530 Speaker 1: to hear from you. And they feel like whether he 576 00:29:59,870 --> 00:30:02,770 Speaker 1: is speaking or whether their world just feels too chaotic 577 00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:05,650 Speaker 1: for them to hear him. What would you say to 578 00:30:05,710 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: them right now? 579 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,630 Speaker 2: Well, something that changed my heart and drew me closer 580 00:30:10,690 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 2: to Jesus, was to really look at when he walked 581 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:17,860 Speaker 2: this earth and how he got up from sleeping in 582 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: the boat and calmed the storm. There's another scene where 583 00:30:20,620 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 2: Jesus is walking on the water in a terrific storm, 584 00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: going towards his disciples. At first, they were terrified. They 585 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,940 Speaker 2: thought he was a coast and he walked on water 586 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: and got in the boat with them and then it 587 00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:35,250 Speaker 2: grew calm and i can promise you that our lord 588 00:30:35,270 --> 00:30:40,230 Speaker 2: jesus walks the stormy waves of our stormy stories with 589 00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:42,710 Speaker 2: us and for us even if we can't see him 590 00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:44,390 Speaker 2: you know i know for a while they were in 591 00:30:44,430 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 2: that storm and they couldn't see you know, Jesus walking 592 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: on the water. And then they did and they were afraid. 593 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,270 Speaker 2: And yet he calmed the storm. And my older sister's 594 00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:55,230 Speaker 2: been through a lot in her life. And I remember 595 00:30:55,390 --> 00:30:57,330 Speaker 2: once when I was telling her, I just don't think 596 00:30:57,410 --> 00:30:59,610 Speaker 2: Jesus cares. I don't know where he is in the 597 00:30:59,650 --> 00:31:01,890 Speaker 2: storm of my life. And she said, Judy, we'll never 598 00:31:01,950 --> 00:31:04,260 Speaker 2: suffer as much as our Lord Jesus did when he 599 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: died on the cross for us. But the night before 600 00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: the night of his arrest, before he got arrested, he 601 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,700 Speaker 2: was in the garden of Gethsemane, groaning out to his father, God, 602 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: to take the from him. His anguish was so deep 603 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,340 Speaker 2: that he was sweating drops of blood. We don't even 604 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: fully understand that. And the death of his sorrow of 605 00:31:23,020 --> 00:31:24,979 Speaker 2: knowing he was going to die on the cross for 606 00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:27,250 Speaker 2: us and take all the penalty of all our sin 607 00:31:27,410 --> 00:31:30,850 Speaker 2: on him. We'll never experience that. And he did that 608 00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:33,570 Speaker 2: for us. And I also think it's so important to 609 00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:36,490 Speaker 2: know that we're told in Romans 8 that Jesus prays 610 00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:39,130 Speaker 2: for us. He intercedes for us to God the Father. 611 00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:42,230 Speaker 2: And in that same passage in Romans 8, we're told 612 00:31:42,250 --> 00:31:46,530 Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit groans in prayer when we don't have 613 00:31:46,570 --> 00:31:49,010 Speaker 2: the words to pray. And that just should take our 614 00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:51,460 Speaker 2: breath away, that the triune God is so aware of 615 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: what you're going through and the storms you're in that 616 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:58,370 Speaker 2: Jesus is interceding. The Holy Spirit is groaning in prayer. 617 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,930 Speaker 2: And it's a mystery. I mean, it's God. Like, why 618 00:32:01,010 --> 00:32:03,850 Speaker 2: is God praying for us? But this earth is a 619 00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:07,510 Speaker 2: mess in many ways. We've got an enemy who wants 620 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:10,330 Speaker 2: to harm us. And thankfully, our God protects us. But 621 00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:12,550 Speaker 2: we are in a battle. And we've got a God 622 00:32:12,610 --> 00:32:16,060 Speaker 2: who covers us from all sides and has promised never 623 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:18,100 Speaker 2: to leave us or forsake us. So those are the 624 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,100 Speaker 2: things I cling to when it seems like I can't 625 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: find them in the darkness or the storms or the anxiety. 626 00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:26,850 Speaker 1: Yeah, that just like hit me deep when you said 627 00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:31,290 Speaker 1: that he groans, he prays groaning and it just the 628 00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: intensity of emotion that conveys to me is I think 629 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,500 Speaker 1: I'm going to sit on that for a while after 630 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,940 Speaker 1: this conversation just to really process through and I'm going 631 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,500 Speaker 1: to invite listeners actually. Go to Romans 8 and pray 632 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 1: through that. Pay special attention to the Holy Spirit's response 633 00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:51,610 Speaker 1: to us when we don't have the words. The other 634 00:32:51,650 --> 00:32:54,010 Speaker 1: thing I like about that passage, too, is where it says, 635 00:32:54,450 --> 00:32:57,450 Speaker 1: will not the one who gave us his son also 636 00:32:57,530 --> 00:33:00,110 Speaker 1: freely give us all things? And that, to me, is 637 00:33:00,170 --> 00:33:04,020 Speaker 1: a comfort when... God isn't responding in the way I want. 638 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,900 Speaker 1: I know from that passage and from his history, it's 639 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,180 Speaker 1: not because he doesn't care. It's not because he's callous. 640 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,070 Speaker 1: I don't always understand why, but the proof of his 641 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:17,150 Speaker 1: son is that it's not because he's callous. Well, this 642 00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:19,690 Speaker 1: has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much 643 00:33:19,730 --> 00:33:20,510 Speaker 1: for joining us. 644 00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,090 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Jennifer. 645 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: I do want to let listeners know if they missed 646 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:26,820 Speaker 1: your previous episode. Actually, I got a link to that 647 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: because they want to catch your previous episode, but I 648 00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: do want them to know more about your book. It's 649 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:34,870 Speaker 1: called The Loudest Roar, Living in the Unshakable Victory of Christ. 650 00:33:34,910 --> 00:33:37,050 Speaker 1: Let me read a little about it. Do you struggle 651 00:33:37,090 --> 00:33:40,890 Speaker 1: with recurring fears, temptations, doubts, or lies that leave you 652 00:33:40,990 --> 00:33:45,230 Speaker 1: feeling defeated? In The Loudest Roar, author Judy Dunnigan reveals 653 00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:50,500 Speaker 1: how to stand in the victory Jesus has already won 654 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,900 Speaker 1: for you. Through biblical truth and practical application, you'll learn, 655 00:33:54,940 --> 00:33:58,330 Speaker 1: this is so good, Judy, you'll learn to recognize God's 656 00:33:58,390 --> 00:34:03,410 Speaker 1: voice above the enemy's lies, overcome fear, take your thoughts captive, 657 00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: break cycles of sin, and find strength in God's armor. 658 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,940 Speaker 1: Discover how Christ's powerful roar can reduce the enemy's lies 659 00:34:12,070 --> 00:34:15,029 Speaker 1: to a whisper. We will link to that book in 660 00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:17,250 Speaker 1: the show notes, but we'll also link to that episode 661 00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:20,110 Speaker 1: because you and I had a really rich conversation as 662 00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:24,130 Speaker 1: well about that. And that's everything we're talking about. today, 663 00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:27,790 Speaker 1: the one who is with us when we are overwhelmed. 664 00:34:28,190 --> 00:34:30,940 Speaker 1: And so to our listeners, I hope this encouraged you 665 00:34:31,060 --> 00:34:35,779 Speaker 1: just to keep showing up. And as you do, it's 666 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,700 Speaker 1: okay to acknowledge the heart. It's okay to acknowledge the fear. 667 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: It's okay to acknowledge the frustration, but may you do 668 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,460 Speaker 1: so with the truth of God's word, his character. his promises. 669 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:49,900 Speaker 1: And if you haven't already done so, I encourage you 670 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,540 Speaker 1: to subscribe to this podcast. Then you won't miss a 671 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: single episode. Share it with your family and your friends. 672 00:34:55,489 --> 00:34:58,069 Speaker 1: And until next time, may you live as one who 673 00:34:58,270 --> 00:35:00,069 Speaker 1: truly has been set free.