1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: We received your message and we understand. We beg you 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: now to return our mother to us so that we 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: will have these. This is very valuable to us, and 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: we will pay. 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 2: So what does the latest video from the Guthrie family 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: tell us about what's possibly happened to Nancy Guthrie. It's 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: not great news. There are a few different indications in 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: there that potentially something significant has shifted. Susannah talks about 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: wanting to celebrate. There was no asking for proof of life, 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: which has changed from the previous video. They're all holding hands, 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: the faces and yes they looked completely horrified in the 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: first couple of videos, but this seems different. What are 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: the other signs that you might have missed? Former FBI 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: agent seal superhero Jonathan Gilliam joins me to dissect from 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: only his perspective, and he uses stats, not feelings or emotions, 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: but stats. This Guthrie case, aside from being completely heartbreaking, 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: and anyone who's got a mother, which is all of 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: us who has had one, just feels this on so 20 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: many levels, but it's also absolutely baffling. What to you 21 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense so far in this case, and we're 22 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 2: a week in now from when she was taken. 23 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 3: Well, the timeline is a little is very odd to 24 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: me for kidnappers that are supposedly or potentially this advanced 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: and using bitcoin and coming up with this way to 26 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: kidnap somebody in ransom. So that happens a lot in 27 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: Mexico all the time, happen here, right, So for this 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: to happen here, it's not following the protocol what you 29 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: see in Mexico where they are in contact with the families, 30 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: they do let them know that we have these people, 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: we are going to kill them. If you don't, you know, 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: give us the money. Oftentimes those people end up dead anyway. 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: But in this case, the timeline of somebody going into 34 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: the home and being in there for approximately forty five minutes, 35 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 3: that makes no sense to me. And then the way 36 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 3: the cameras went off or they say that they went 37 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: offline and then they showed movement after that, I don't 38 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 3: understand what they mean by that. And then the non communication. 39 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 3: These kidnappers are making demands, but they're well, let's let 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: me let me say this. 41 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 4: The people who. 42 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: Are making the demands are not making it a two 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 3: way communication. So there's no way that a real advanced 44 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 3: or a person who's somewhat understanding of how these things 45 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 3: work would make these demands without showing proof of life, 46 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: because the possibility and most likely the result is that 47 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 3: you're not going. 48 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 4: To get money. 49 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: And so that kind of leads me to wonder if 50 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: those people are opportunists. It could even be somebody that 51 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: she knows it's an opportunist. It could be somebody from 52 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: India or somebody from any of these other places that 53 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: we have Nigeria, we have scams all the time, like 54 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: not necessarily this, but scams from far away. So that 55 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: part is not adding up to me. Plus, the forty 56 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: five minutes in the home almost appears to me of 57 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: what we typically see. And so I go on statistics 58 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: and I look at statistics. I don't say that's what happened, 59 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: but I kind of refer back to those. Is that 60 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 3: somebody who knows an individual and is looking for something 61 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: or is committing a crime within that home, and then 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 3: the person wakes up, for instance, and then they have 63 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: a tussle with them, or they get in a fight 64 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: with them, or their rage pours out and they finally 65 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: do what they're wanting to do. That seems like a 66 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: more likely scenario than somebody to mill about for forty 67 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: five minutes and then injure somebody take them out and 68 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: then make unsubstantiated demands for money in return of their life. 69 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: So it's just it's not adding. 70 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 4: Up to me. 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: Obviously, her daughter very well known in America, a very 72 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: famous television presenter, very wealthy. But again you make the point, 73 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: this is not two way communication where they're requesting something 74 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: and then looking for a response to that or some 75 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: kind of exchange. Could this be motivated by something other 76 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: than money? Could this be about ideology? Could this be 77 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: revenge for something that Savannah Guthrie may have talked about 78 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: on air or done. I mean, all these things. I 79 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: know this is you know, we're being We're not dealing 80 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: in facts here, but it's trying to understand what a 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: possible other motive could be if it's not financial. 82 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: So I don't think what Savannah Guthrie covers on a 83 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: typical basis is something that's going to inflame anyone, you 84 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: know what I mean. 85 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 4: It's not. 86 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 3: She doesn't cover super hot button topics as an investigative reporter. 87 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 3: That's the type of person that you might see get vitriol. 88 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 4: I don't know. 89 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: I haven't looked at her ex or Twitter account, but 90 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: she doesn't seem like the type of person that's. 91 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 4: Going to get vitriol. 92 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: Of course, there's your conspiracy theory people out there that 93 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 3: are saying that her husband's connected to the Clintons and 94 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: Epstein and all this stuff. But it's still not something 95 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 3: that I would venture into and put any weight mind. 96 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: But I would still put it on a whiteboard and 97 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 3: say this is a potential. But the wealth part of 98 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: it is something, and so people can do research. I mean, look, 99 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: they go in the obituaries all the time and they 100 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: try to find people who've died and then go after 101 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: their spouses for fraud. 102 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 4: I mean that occurs. 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: So I think that there is a potential that somebody 104 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: outside of the family could be involved in this. 105 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 4: I know. 106 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: I was just mentioning earlier on Fox News that a 107 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: friend of mine reached out and said that they saw 108 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: there's a brand new roof on the building on the 109 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: home and they're in construction. They said, there's a tremendous 110 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: amount of felons in that industry, especially in roofing. So 111 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: that's how Elizabeth Smart was abducted. You know, a guy 112 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 3: was working on the roof, never came back for a paycheck, 113 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 3: and then showed up and kidnapped her through an open window. 114 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: These are all possibilities, but those seem more likely for 115 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 3: somebody to be inside of a home for forty five minutes, 116 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: not somebody who's going in to kidnap somebody. 117 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 4: That just doesn't make. 118 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: Sense me, especially when the victim is in her eighties 119 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: and not particularly healthy or well, her ability to fight 120 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: back and struggle for half an hour forty minutes would 121 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: be minimal. There was talk early and obviously so conscious 122 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: of things that are not true and speculating, but about 123 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: it being maybe closer to home. The son in law 124 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: reportedly dropped her off, but the police aren't being specific 125 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: about who it was that dropped her off after she 126 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: had dinner with her daughter and her daughter's husband. Why 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: would that be, do you think? Why would they say 128 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: a family member and not answer specifically, whereas some publications 129 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: have said it was her son in law. 130 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: Well, the sheriff, I think, if I remember correctly, a 131 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: sheriff is the one who said it was a son 132 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: in law, and then he backtracked later and said things 133 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: that were not specific. But the sheriff, I don't know 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: him personally. I know Sheriff Lamb who replaced and so 135 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: I don't know how profoundation is his job. 136 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 4: But some people should just not be in front of 137 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 4: a mic. 138 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 3: And if I was gonna advise him, I would say, 139 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: take yourself out of this. 140 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 4: You know. 141 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: I know you're a politician, because sheriffs are politicians, but 142 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: he's not doing himself or investigation any favors. But the possibility, Aaron, 143 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: very great possibility. Is it somebody that she's related to 144 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: has done this and is either trying to get money 145 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: through bitcoin or they have nothing to do with that, 146 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: or they could have hired somebody and that's the way 147 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 3: they're going about it. But you know, if you watch 148 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: if you binge watch forty Hours Mysteries, and they do 149 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: a fantastic job of covering over thirty forty years as 150 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 3: long as that show has been on, you'll see that 151 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: it is not uncommon for family members to do absolutely 152 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 3: horrific things. And you can't write that off. 153 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 4: You just cannot. 154 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: I mean, you have Samantha who is as famous newsperson. 155 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 3: Her brother's a fighter pilot, and then you have a 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 3: sibling in the middle who's a poet who's married to 157 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: a guy in a band. 158 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 4: You know. I mean, it's so who knows. 159 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: I see exactly what you're saying. Absolutely again in summary, 160 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: praying clearly that she comes home and she's okay. It's 161 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: going to be messy and horrific. I think either way, 162 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: when it comes to the surface, what actually happened. What 163 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: is your prediction. We're a week out, she needs medication. 164 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: There's been no proof of life that we've seen thus far. 165 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: Are you optimistic or not so much regarding the likelihood 166 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: of getting her back? 167 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 4: Okay, I just. 168 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 3: Look at statistics, and statistics show that that typically she. 169 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 4: Is not coming back alive. 170 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: The further we get away from the event and they're 171 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: still not willing to. 172 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 4: Show proof of life. 173 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 3: That also tells me that they probably don't they're not 174 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: able to prove the life. And also they left her 175 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: medication behind. If they really cared about her, which they 176 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: apparently said in one of these letters, that she's healthy 177 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 3: and aware of and she's scared. 178 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 4: Well, if that's kind of a soft message, you. 179 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: Know, saying that listen, she's alive, but she's scared and 180 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 3: you need to pay us this money. But yet we 181 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 3: didn't take her heart medication with her and she's eighty 182 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 3: something years old. That shows me that they were not 183 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: concerned with her life. But now they're kind of showing 184 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: or saying these people that are doing the ransom. I'm 185 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: still Aaron, I'm still looking to this. It's two different cases. 186 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: You have the case of what occurred at that home 187 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: and the case of these ransom letters. And I'm not 188 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 3: actually positive that they're connected except for the fact that 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: it's about the same person. 190 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're spot on as always, Jonathan. Thank 191 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. 192 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 4: You got it, Aarin. 193 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: The full episode is up now on the Aaron Mullinshaw 194 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: YouTube channel and on podcast. 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