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Speaker 1: If you're in a season where you're feeling like it's

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Speaker 1: not saying anything new, my first question would be, has

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Speaker 1: God told you something previously or shown you something previously

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Speaker 1: that you're not actually yet doing. Did He ask you

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Speaker 1: to do something and you're not being obedient on it.

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Speaker 1: Has He been niggling you to lay the thing down,

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Speaker 1: pick the thing up, forgive the person I don't know,

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Speaker 1: stop the habit, invite the broken person in, you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Has He asked you to do

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Speaker 1: something and you've actually not done it? Life Audio, Hello, Hello.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast.

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Speaker 2: I am your host, John Seidel, and I am the

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Speaker 2: Christian who became an alcoholic, not the other way around.

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Speaker 2: Here we get radically vulnerable about an addiction, recovery, messy sanctification,

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Speaker 2: and all the things we turn to instead of Jesus

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Speaker 2: because we're all addicted to something. You'll hear raw, honest

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Speaker 2: conversations from those who have struggld those who help those

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Speaker 2: who struggle, and why aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety

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Speaker 2: thrown in is actually the best goal. So let's get

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Speaker 2: right into this week's episode. You know, One of the

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Speaker 2: most consistent questions I get from people is not what

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Speaker 2: was it like to swim in your own feces when

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Speaker 2: you hit rock bottom? It's actually, hey, you talk about

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Speaker 2: abiding in Christ? What does it what? What does it

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Speaker 2: mean to hear from the Lord? How do I hear

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Speaker 2: from the Lord? And today's guest, we're going to focus

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Speaker 2: exclusively on that question and what it means looks like

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Speaker 2: to abide in Christ, what it means look like to

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Speaker 2: hear from God. We're going to provide some practical tips,

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Speaker 2: some practical ways to filter through what you hear from

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Speaker 2: other people. Because if if you look at my four

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Speaker 2: steps that I talk about in book Confessions of a

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Speaker 2: Christian Alcoholic, it's abiding Christ, find your true identity, practice

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Speaker 2: radical vulnerability, and be obedient. And while all the other

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Speaker 2: you know, three of those four steps like there are,

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Speaker 2: I should say this way, the only step that is

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Speaker 2: absolutely has to be done first is abiding in Christ.

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Speaker 2: Like you can't do any of the other stuff without

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Speaker 2: abiding in Christ. And so I wanted to spend a

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Speaker 2: whole episode really breaking that down. So who are we

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Speaker 2: talking to today, Well, we're talking to someone who I

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Speaker 2: think in my life has I have seen practice and

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Speaker 2: model what it looks like to abide in Christ and

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Speaker 2: to hear from Him consistently, and to then encourage and

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Speaker 2: tell other people, Hey, I think, you know, I'm talking

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Speaker 2: with the Lord. I'm kind of getting this. What does

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Speaker 2: that look like? How? What does she say?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: How does she interpret those things? Her name is m Tyler.

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Speaker 2: She is the founder of Grow and Go. It's a podcast,

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Speaker 2: it's a ministry. She does these cohorts, especially for women,

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Speaker 2: what it means to abiding Christ, to hear from Him

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Speaker 2: and to then what do we do with that. She

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Speaker 2: has become a dear friend and I talk with her

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Speaker 2: multiple times a week. She'll send me messages. I'll actually

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Speaker 2: you'll actually be able to hear one of the messages

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Speaker 2: that she sent me, at least a little bit, because

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Speaker 2: I want you to hear practically how she does this.

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Speaker 2: But I've become just such a big fan of hers,

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Speaker 2: and as you'll hear, I've been looking for an excuse

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Speaker 2: to get her on the podcast, and this is a

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Speaker 2: really good excuse. So we're going to talk to him

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Speaker 2: about abiding in Christ and hearing from God. But before

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Speaker 2: we do, just want to encourage you to check out

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Speaker 2: Veritas Recovery Veritas recovery dot org. It is the new

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Speaker 2: ministry that me and my wife have started that is

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Speaker 2: really trying to introduce people to gospel centered recovery. And

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Speaker 2: when and when I say people, it's it's for the

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Speaker 2: big addictions, the small addictions, the big things in life,

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Speaker 2: the small hang ups in life, the doing the things

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Speaker 2: we don't want to do. And I have poured my

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Speaker 2: heart and soul into this, this here, and I would

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Speaker 2: love if you would check it out, whether you need help,

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Speaker 2: whether you know someone who needs help, and if there's

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for you to help us accomplish our mission,

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Speaker 2: I would be forever grateful. So with that said, let's

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Speaker 2: talk to m Tyler and thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I admittedly

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Speaker 2: have been trying to figure out an excuse to get

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Speaker 2: you on the show. And since you know, no matter

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Speaker 2: my best efforts to get you to confess some secret,

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Speaker 2: you know, heroin addiction or something that hasn't happened, and

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Speaker 2: so we're just gonna have to just get you out

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Speaker 2: and have you talk about Jesus, which is good.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yes, I am very up for talking

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Speaker 1: about Jesus. That sounds right up my street.

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Speaker 2: Before we kind of get into the topic, which is

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Speaker 2: going to be abiding in Christ, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: hearing from God. And I'll set that up in a second.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself?

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Speaker 2: They I'm sure they're heard. You know, you're not from

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Speaker 2: New Jersey, you're from somewhere else. And so where do

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Speaker 2: you live, what do you do, and what's your passion?

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Speaker 1: Sure? Okay? So yes. I was born and bred in

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Speaker 1: the UK, in the southeast of England. It's not too

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Speaker 1: far from London, but not actually in London, and lived

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Speaker 1: here all of my life up until about seven years

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Speaker 1: ago when my husband and three children and I moved

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Speaker 1: to New Zealand and we pastored a church out in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand for about six seven years. A whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff went down towards the end, and then we

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Speaker 1: came back and so we have been back in the

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Speaker 1: UK for the last two almost two is actually next

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Speaker 1: month it will be two years, which is wild and

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Speaker 1: so now we're back. My husband is senior pastor of

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Speaker 1: a church here in the south of England. I am

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Speaker 1: a pastor's wife and alongside that. Alongside that, I work

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Speaker 1: part time for a Christian charity, and my role is

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Speaker 1: very much about supporting different networks in discipleship and raising

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Speaker 1: up leaders, and that is something I'm very passionate about,

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Speaker 1: is helping ordinary everyday believers keep growing and keep going

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Speaker 1: with Jesus so they can go the distance with him

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Speaker 1: and not fizzle out. Because sometimes it can be really

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Speaker 1: hard to be a Christian.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you might turn to alcohol to numb that

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Speaker 2: those hard times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you might tend to all sorts of things, and

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Speaker 1: so yes, for sure, I don't have an alcohol or

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Speaker 1: classical addiction story to share, but I, like everybody else,

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Speaker 1: still tend to things that are not God, to numb,

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Speaker 1: to escape to hie to you know, to look for

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Speaker 1: satisfaction or significance or self worth or all these sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, because I think, you know, we naturally are

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Speaker 1: inclined to not always go to God first, and so,

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Speaker 1: just like everybody else, he listens or has struggles or battles.

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Speaker 1: I'm a normal girl who is doing my best to

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Speaker 1: love Jesus and walk faithfully with him. And sometimes I

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Speaker 1: manage that, and sometimes I get it really wrong and

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Speaker 1: have to say story and start again.

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Speaker 2: I heard it do that last week. That's not fun.

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Speaker 1: No, but let's growth in it. Let's growth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have this podcast in this subject called grow

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Speaker 2: and Go. Tell us a little bit. I mean you

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Speaker 2: kind of hinted at it, but be specific. I want

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Speaker 2: you to talk about this because I've signed up. I'm

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Speaker 2: a little legitimate pain member of this. I know that

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Speaker 2: you didn't.

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Speaker 1: Give it anything free, So yeah, you don't really get

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Speaker 1: anything for being a paid subscriber other than my eternal

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Speaker 1: gratitude that you're helping fun the ministry, which is all

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Speaker 1: things grow and go. So the history of it. Two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four, I was sitting in church and I

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Speaker 1: would have been pre pre married, kind of like a

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Speaker 1: university sort of age back in two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: so I know, I look like, you know, a teenager,

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Speaker 1: but I'm in my forties and so we're talking a

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Speaker 1: couple of decades ago. And I was just sitting there

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Speaker 1: and there was this song which was very popular worship

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Speaker 1: song at the time, and it's got a line in

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Speaker 1: it which says, I see a generation rising up with

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Speaker 1: selfless faith. And every time that song would be sung

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Speaker 1: in a church or any situation, I would just b

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Speaker 1: all my eyes out and it was just like this

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Speaker 1: phrase like was planted in my mind over two decades ago,

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Speaker 1: of grow and Go, And that is my prayer that

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Speaker 1: I would be able to help people and encourage people

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Speaker 1: to keep growing with God, to grow in their understanding

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Speaker 1: of who He is, because when we know who He is,

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Speaker 1: we can get a right understanding of who we are.

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Speaker 1: And then when we have that, we can go into

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Speaker 1: the fullness of everything that He has created and prepared

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Speaker 1: for us, which is abundant and joyful and good. Does

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Speaker 1: it mean everything's easy hard, No, we're told that absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But I do believe that when Jesus said he came

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Speaker 1: to give us life and life to the full, that

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Speaker 1: he meant it. And so if I can encourage people

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Speaker 1: on that journey, that is gold to me. And so

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Speaker 1: grow and Go officially became a thing as far as

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Speaker 1: the world was concerned in twenty twenty two. So it

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Speaker 1: took a good eighteen years to get to that point

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Speaker 1: of Yeah, I know, like slow burn, people, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to have everything straight away. God is good at

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Speaker 1: giving us what we need and shaping our character to

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Speaker 1: get to the place he wants us to be before

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Speaker 1: he gives us things sometimes. But yeah, and so what

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Speaker 1: that's looked like over the past few years is coaching, speaking, writing,

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Speaker 1: substack Land Now podcast We've got to grow and go

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Speaker 1: with m Tyler. We do weekly interviews. You have been

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Speaker 1: a guest on my podcast. Hooray, hooray. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it looks like all sorts of different things, but the

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Speaker 1: general premise is I just want to cheer people on.

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Speaker 1: I just want to like see Christians like go all

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Speaker 1: in for Jesus and expect to encounter him in day

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Speaker 1: to day life.

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Speaker 2: And I can say, you know that it really is

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Speaker 2: true that em lives that out, like when she says, hey,

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Speaker 2: I want to encourage people. I want to do that,

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Speaker 2: and that's part of why we're talking today, and I

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Speaker 2: want to explain that. But is she is such a cheerleader.

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Speaker 2: Ian has been such an encouragement to me as I

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Speaker 2: have started my own ministry, turned the book into Veritoster Recovery,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the bumps in the road that I've

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Speaker 2: hit as a result of that or along the way

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Speaker 2: just just other things. And so you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: I have like like I was, I was pulling this up,

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Speaker 2: but it's like, you know, like I can play this.

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Speaker 1: It's like morning and just a picture and you are

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Speaker 1: in a business.

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Speaker 2: Help see like like okay, you heard that that was

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Speaker 2: on quex speed. But that's M's voice in a voice memo.

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Speaker 2: And she'll send these things that are like you know,

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Speaker 2: and we can talk about that one in a second.

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Speaker 2: She'll be like, hey, can I have this. I was

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Speaker 2: praying for you this morning and I saw you and

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Speaker 2: you were in a prison cell and like I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't think your and you can clarify this. It's

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Speaker 2: not like em is saying, oh my gosh, I'm getting

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Speaker 2: dreams and visions and here's the the thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: like like you're always so good about like here's just

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Speaker 2: what came to mind, you know, pray through this, do

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Speaker 2: do with it what you want. And so we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about that in a second. But but what

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Speaker 2: I have come to know about mc M and I

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Speaker 2: met as part of a Christian you know, writers group

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Speaker 2: that we we meet once a month and and share

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Speaker 2: war stories and tips and life and tears, and it's

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Speaker 2: become just such a great little group. And I just

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Speaker 2: would always and would just always have like such great

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Speaker 2: words of encouragement and then would follow them up with

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Speaker 2: stuff that's coming out of her own prayer life. And

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Speaker 2: so I think, as you know, as we record this podcast,

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Speaker 2: I think one of the most consistent questions and perhaps

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Speaker 2: even frustrations that I get from listeners and readers, is, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you have your four steps, you talk about abiding in Christ,

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Speaker 2: you talk about hearing from God. A I'm struggling to

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Speaker 2: abide in Christ. I'm trying to do everything you've said,

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Speaker 2: and it's just not happening. It's just not working. And two,

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Speaker 2: I am not hearing from God. And so I thought, huh,

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Speaker 2: who's a person that I know is really kind of

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Speaker 2: in tune with those two things? Not perfect, but is

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Speaker 2: really in tune with those things. And so, literally, I

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Speaker 2: think it was last month or two months ago, we

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Speaker 2: were on this this this writing group call and you

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Speaker 2: said something and I just messaged you and I said,

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Speaker 2: you're coming on the podcast talk about how to hear

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Speaker 2: from God.

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Speaker 3: And you're like, uh, okay, someone more qualified, and and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no, You're coming out on the podcast

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Speaker 3: talk about abiding with Christ and hearing from God.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what we are talking about today. And

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Speaker 2: I know It's an amorphous topic. And I think the

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Speaker 2: best people are the ones who feel unqualified. And so

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like Socrates, like the wisest man in

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Speaker 2: the world. Why because he knew he wasn't the wisest

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Speaker 2: man in the world.

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Speaker 1: So okay, I'll take that.

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Speaker 2: There you go. So I want to kind of start

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Speaker 2: by opening opening it up here and again we just

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Speaker 2: chase rabbits. But when it comes to abiding in Christ,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean to you? And what does that

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Speaker 2: look like for you personally?

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Speaker 1: Great question? Next time I'm joking and straight in there

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Speaker 1: with the big guns. So abiding in Christ, like we

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Speaker 1: are all cool to do it, you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: vine like if we want to have meaningful lives, we

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Speaker 1: cannot do it apart from Jesus. We have to remain

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Speaker 1: in Him, abide in him. And so what that looks

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Speaker 1: like for me has more often grown over the years.

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Speaker 1: I am fortunate enough to have grown up in a

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Speaker 1: Christian home, so I've been going to church all my life,

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Speaker 1: but I have not always walked with Jesus, and I

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Speaker 1: have not always chosen to abide in Him. And I

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Speaker 1: think if now what I would say, what it means

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Speaker 1: to me is. It means a few things. It means

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Speaker 1: coming back again and again. It means returning to the

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Speaker 1: Word again and again. It means finding stillness long enough

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Speaker 1: in the craziness and the manicness of life to actually

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Speaker 1: slow down and say, oh, hey, Jesus, I'm here, Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 1: If you want to say anything, I'm not too busy

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Speaker 1: to notice what you're up to. I think abiding with

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Speaker 1: God looks like walking in step with the Spirit, and

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Speaker 1: that is something that I've been pondering a lot recently, actually,

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Speaker 1: and I think I don't know how people can abide

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Speaker 1: in Jesus without spending time in their Bible. And so,

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Speaker 1: just like a little bit of history, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a church that was very conservative, and their trinity

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Speaker 1: probably would have been like God the Father, God the Son,

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Speaker 1: and God the Holy Scripture. So like the first eighteen

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Speaker 1: years of my life, the church I went to like

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Speaker 1: had this really really beautiful love for God's word, but

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Speaker 1: the leaders of that church really only thought that the

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Speaker 1: Holy Spirit's job today on this planet was to help

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Speaker 1: people confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, you know, for

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Speaker 1: them to become Christians. And that's basically it. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of all he did maybe to illuminate the scripture, but

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Speaker 1: certainly not to speak like living word moments or reama

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Speaker 1: words or kind of have a guidance pictures, dreams, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: thank you. That was just not part of my growing up.

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Speaker 1: And then about a year before I went away to UNI,

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Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, I decided to go to

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Speaker 1: a different church from my family for a year to

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Speaker 1: kind of experience something else. And I ended up in

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Speaker 1: a church that was probably on like the total opposite

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Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, where people were like slain in

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Speaker 1: the spirit every week and people were like praying out

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Speaker 1: in tongues and dancing around, and there might have been flags,

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Speaker 1: and there was a little bit woo woo, and it

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Speaker 1: was just like this total baptism of like whoa. And

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Speaker 1: there were some things that I encountered in that church

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Speaker 1: that were amazing and God was actually absolutely involved with.

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Speaker 1: And there were other things that I encountered there that

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Speaker 1: probably I would say weren't fully biblical. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of had both ends of the spectrum at quite a

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Speaker 1: young age. And what I think abiding in Christ for

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Speaker 1: me is now is the combination of a deep love

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Speaker 1: for the Word and for me that's actually how I

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Speaker 1: best hear from God is in the scripture in the Bible.

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Speaker 1: But then also this awareness and ability to encounter the

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Speaker 1: fact that we have a living God who speaks to

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Speaker 1: us and knows us intimately and wants us to walk

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Speaker 1: with him, and that means He's got things to say

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Speaker 1: to us. You know, there's so many scriptures where it

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Speaker 1: talks about that God is talking to us. I mean

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Speaker 1: I kind of looked up a few of them before,

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Speaker 1: but one of my favorites on this sort of topic

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Speaker 1: of like abiding and hearing from God is Jeremiah thirty

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Speaker 1: three to three, which says call to me, and I

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Speaker 1: will answer you and will tell you great and hidden

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Speaker 1: things that you've not known. It's like God's got stuff

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Speaker 1: to tell us that's not just generic. You know. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of course he tells everybody what's in scripture. That's true

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Speaker 1: for everyone. That's great, but he has things that are

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Speaker 1: personal and unique that are going to help you know

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Speaker 1: him more, going to help you grow and help you go.

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Speaker 1: And so for me, abiding looks like on a very

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Speaker 1: practical level on my best days, and I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to put my hand up and say I don't do

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Speaker 1: this every day, I have not nailed a perfect rhythm,

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Speaker 1: but on my best days, it looks like opening up scripture.

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Speaker 1: And at the moment I have I Grow and Go

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Speaker 1: cohort for women, and we are reading through Proverbs, and

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Speaker 1: so at the moment it looks like deep diving into

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Speaker 1: a chapter of Proverbs getting out a commentary or two.

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely geek a nerd when it comes to what

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Speaker 1: the original language will say about words, and that how

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Speaker 1: that opens up so much richness when we learn that

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Speaker 1: and then kind of reflecting on it. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of with the cohorts that we do. We have these

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Speaker 1: five g's and it's grow. So we start in the

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Speaker 1: word by reading it. You might want to read it

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Speaker 1: slowly because we have temptation to like just borrow all

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Speaker 1: the way through and like not really realize what we've

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Speaker 1: even read. And then we have glorify, So before we

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Speaker 1: get into any of the like what does it mean

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Speaker 1: for me? You know, what's the application? Like, let's just

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Speaker 1: actually glorify God because he's the author of it, right

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Speaker 1: and he like where do we see him? Where do

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Speaker 1: we see his character? Who is he in this passage?

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Speaker 1: What is it showing us about him? From there we

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Speaker 1: do grapple. So it might be like a journaling prompt

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Speaker 1: or like a question of application. Then it's gather, gather

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Speaker 1: your thoughts in prayer, like talk to Jesus about it,

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Speaker 1: you know, invite him to say more things, say the

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Speaker 1: things back that you're thinking and feeling, and then there's

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Speaker 1: like a little go. Then it's like an application, like we'll

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Speaker 1: let this actually transform and change us. Let's not just

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Speaker 1: kind of be consumers, but people who are prepared to

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Speaker 1: be transformed by the word. So for me, like that's

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Speaker 1: on a good day, That's what abiding looks like. On

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Speaker 1: a day where life is happening and it's busy and

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Speaker 1: it's all kind of crazy, it'll look like little arrow

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Speaker 1: prayers through the day. If something really great happens, I might,

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Speaker 1: if I'm on my own, burst out in tongues. If

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Speaker 1: I'm not, because I don't really do a lot of

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Speaker 1: praying in tongues in front of other people. I think

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Speaker 1: it's quite private thing between God and people. But if

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Speaker 1: I'm having a really bad moment, then equally I'll just

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Speaker 1: be like, oh God, and like talk to him about

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Speaker 1: it in that moment in the car whatever it might be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: putting on worship music helps me to realign my mind

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Speaker 1: and my thoughts. And so it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the practices and disciplines that we pick up

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Speaker 1: along the way, but not so rigid that it's like

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Speaker 1: it has to be like this, and it has to

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Speaker 1: be at this time and it has to look like that.

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, it's the power of again

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Speaker 1: that returning to Jesus again and again, and there's life

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Speaker 1: in that because we live in a world whereby we

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Speaker 1: feel like if we haven't done like if we have

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Speaker 1: to do something more than once, it means we've not

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Speaker 1: nailed it, and therefore we failed it at it. And

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Speaker 1: actually the walk with Jesus is something that we're never

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Speaker 1: gonna nail. Like doing life with him. We have to

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Speaker 1: grow in our dependence on him, not in our independence,

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Speaker 1: like maturity for the Christian looks like becoming media, not

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Speaker 1: becoming more independent. And so it's just that repeatedly coming

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Speaker 1: back to Him again and again and again, and the

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Speaker 1: joy of not having to have it all together and

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Speaker 1: not having to have all the answers and not having

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Speaker 1: to be like shiny and perfect as a Christian, but

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Speaker 1: being able to say like, oh, hi, here's my mess Jesus,

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Speaker 1: thanks for taking it. See you lay that, you know?

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Speaker 2: Can you repeat that again? I felt that I think

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Speaker 2: that's really interesting, is that what training Jesus is actually

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Speaker 2: not becoming more independent, more dependent, neutraled down at work

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Speaker 2: for a second. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 1: So it's been again something I've been pondering a lot recently,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of came about a few months ago.

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Speaker 1: I woke up one morning and I just it's kind

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Speaker 1: of tied into this abiding thing of just like realizing

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Speaker 1: I can be so tempted to like rush through life

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Speaker 1: and just miss what God is up to because I'm

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Speaker 1: so busy doing things and they could be good things,

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Speaker 1: they might be very nice things that I'm doing for Jesus,

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Speaker 1: but actually missing the interruptions that he might have. And

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Speaker 1: so I wake up one morning and I actually prayed.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Holy Spirit, interrupt my independence today, Like

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Speaker 1: I want I want to see what you're doing, and

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Speaker 1: I want to be able to pivot if necessary, notice it,

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Speaker 1: you know, participate in what you're doing. And as I've

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Speaker 1: pondered that phrase of what does it mean to be

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Speaker 1: to have my independence, my plans, my schedule, my goals,

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Speaker 1: my calling, even we even do it with our faith.

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Speaker 1: What does it mean to have that interrupted and our world?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I have got kids. My kids are sixteen, fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and eleven. I'm constantly wanting them to be more independent.

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Speaker 1: That's what it looks like to grow up. If you know,

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Speaker 1: they can start feeding themselves, they can start cooking themselves,

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Speaker 1: they can arrange their social calendars, they can do things

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Speaker 1: without me their parent. I celebrate that, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: look at you go. You're awesome. You're doing it on

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Speaker 1: your own two feet. That is the opposite of what

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Speaker 1: God wants for us. He wants us to grow independence,

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Speaker 1: to be able to come and bring everything to Him

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Speaker 1: and to say, I don't want to do it apart

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Speaker 1: from you, Lord, I don't want to go off on

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Speaker 1: my own two feet and establish myself on my own.

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Speaker 1: Like God's desire is for us to be together and

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Speaker 1: intimate and you know, to be yoked with Jesus. And

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Speaker 1: so therefore, if we're going to grow in spiritual maturity,

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Speaker 1: that's going to look like growing independence and trust on

432
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: the Lord, not in independence and kind of and I

433
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,239
Speaker 1: think it gets tied into this thing of control. You know,

434
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: we want to be in control. We want to do

435
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: it our way. We even with you know, the things

436
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: that God asks of us. Sometimes we can be like, great, Okay,

437
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: got to Jesus head that thing. I'm now going to

438
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: go off and do it. And God's like, no, no,

439
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: I just told you that so we could do it together.

440
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: You're ninny, like, come back and slow down, and then like,

441
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 1: let's do this together. I've got stuff to show you

442
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: on the way. And if you charge off in that

443
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: direction because you think that's where you're going, You're going

444
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: to miss all the good stuff that I've got for you.

445
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: Where we're going to like veer off to the left

446
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: and then go to the right and pick up some

447
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: character here and you know, grow and learn something about

448
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: you is there and maybe have a bit of sanctification

449
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: along the way. And it might look a bit messy

450
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: and it might not be a straight line, but there's

451
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: going to be grace and that's where the maturity comes.

452
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: I think.

453
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: That's good. That's good. Thank you for sharing that. And

454
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: by the way, I just have to kind of chuckle

455
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,479
Speaker 2: because I think are I think where you and I

456
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: have landed when it comes to what you were talking

457
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: about earlier about the importance of scripture, and yet you know,

458
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: an experiential relationship with the Lord, like you started in

459
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: a very like high church, if you will place, and

460
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 2: then kind of went to the really charismatic side, right,

461
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: and then kind of now I think have landed in.

462
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: The say something.

463
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: I was raised with the flag waivers and and went

464
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: off to college and was like okay, and then I'm

465
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: like a redeemer with Tim Keller and and and then

466
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: kind of feel and was just very like anything that

467
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: even you know, quote unquote reeked of Holy Spirit talk.

468
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: I was like, that is just uncontrollable. It's made up,

469
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: you know, it's just people are just trying to foster

470
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: feelings and whatnot. And now I feel like and I

471
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: borrowed this term from from Matt Chandler, but like where

472
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I'm i feel like I've landed at

473
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: like baptisk costal, you know, like this this is merry

474
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: and Baptist and Pentecostal. I'll take that, yeah, And like

475
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: you know, and I do you know, this is a

476
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: lot of the same, A lot of stuff you talked

477
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: about I do as well, Right, And so maybe That's

478
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 2: where I want to take it next, which is, well,

479
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: let me say this. Okay, you're abiding with with Christ, right,

480
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: You're you're spending time. What does it look like, sound like,

481
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: feel like you know, insert whatever word there, to hear

482
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: from God, to hear from the Holy Spirit? What what

483
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: does that look like? And then the follow up question

484
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: that I'll just put right now, but that that I'll

485
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: repeat is how do we know? You know? Because you

486
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: know there listen, there are people, there are people that

487
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 2: I hear from that are like, well, God told me

488
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: to do X. And I'm like, well that's a very

489
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: I don't right, And they're like no, no, for sure,

490
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: And I'm like, e, so what does it look feel

491
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: sound like to hear from God? In how do you

492
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: know it's in? Okay?

493
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm going to like kind of flip the questions

494
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: and then come back to it the right way round

495
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: in a second. So I'm going to start off by

496
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: saying I don't always know. I don't always know. There's

497
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: an element of humility and offering of what I think

498
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: God might be saying when I share with other people.

499
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: If it is like a word or a picture or

500
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: a verse for someone else, I don't always know, and

501
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: so it's okay to not be sure and certain. I

502
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: always think of like Proverbs three five and six, you know,

503
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not

504
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: on your own understanding in all your ways, Acknowledge him,

505
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: and he will direct your past. And I think when

506
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: we're even talking about this, we can want to be

507
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: so sure that it's definitely God speaking, and unless we

508
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: know and we can understand it and it makes perfect sense,

509
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: we don't want to offer it out. And actually, I

510
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: would say even this last twenty four months, I have

511
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: grown in my ability to share words and pictures for

512
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: other people that they've then turned around and gone, oh

513
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: my gosh, how did you know, or like that's totally landed,

514
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: or like here's all that, how the dots connect, and

515
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: this is amazing that you said that, And oftentimes I'm

516
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: then on the other side of being like, that's so fun.

517
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: I can't believe God would speak through me. How incredible. Wow, Jesus,

518
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: You're so clever because I don't always know, and I think, again,

519
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: we need to just take the pressure off from having

520
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: to be like these perfectly dead shorts. So if ever

521
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: I am sharing a picture of a word or a

522
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: sense that God might be saying something. I never say,

523
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: Thus saith the Lord, you know, like here's the proclamation.

524
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: I say things like I sense or I think God

525
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: might be saying. If it lands great, if it doesn't,

526
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: forget it, and you know, and I'll pray, like, you know, God,

527
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: anything that's not from you, like, let that does fall

528
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: away because it's not helpful, so to flip it. What

529
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: does it look like and feel like? Well, I'll tell

530
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: you a bit of a funny story of probably what

531
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: was the first time that I was ever involved in

532
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: hearing from God for the sake of other people. And

533
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: I would have been about seventeen at the time. I

534
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: was a young leader at a big Christian summer camp

535
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: and I was helping out in the twelve to thirteen

536
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 1: year old age group, of which there would have been

537
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: a few hundred kids in that age group. And they

538
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: had a morning session in an evening session. It was

539
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: the evening session. It was middle of worship. The worship

540
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: was loud, it was great, it was super fun, and

541
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: the main kind of venue leader for our group of

542
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: twelve to thirteen year olds came up to me and

543
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: kind of tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey,

544
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: God wants to heal people tonight. And I was like, great,

545
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 1: that's amazing, thinking why are you telling me? And then

546
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: he goes and you're going to tell us what God

547
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: wants to heal. I'll be back in a couple of minutes.

548
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: And then he walked off and I stood there as

549
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old, and I thought, no, I'm not

550
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what God sounds like. I don't have

551
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: like a one way line where I can just be like, yo, Jesus,

552
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: what do you want to heal? And I was terrified,

553
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: absolutely petrified, felt like a total impost. Anyway, sure enough,

554
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: the guy comes back a few minutes later and he's like, so,

555
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: what is it. What had happened in that moment was

556
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: internally in my head, Ah, God, you got to help me.

557
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: I don't know what is it? What is it? What

558
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: is it? What is it? And just feeling completely blank,

559
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: completely blank. Guy comes back over. He says what is it?

560
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: And I was like, I think maybe a headache. Bearing

561
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: in mind there's several hundred people in the room and

562
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: there's loud music playing, so I was like hedging my bets.

563
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: I was like a headache. I think I said something

564
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: about a shoulder. I don't remember the second thing, and

565
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: then I was like and a left knee. And then

566
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: the next thing I know, this guy is on the

567
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: stage saying to the whole entire venue, God wants to

568
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: heal tonight, and we've had a word from the Lord

569
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: that he wants to heal people who have got headaches,

570
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: soldering whatever it was and left me and I stood

571
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: there thinking he got did not say that that was

572
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: not God, that was me? Does having a guest. I

573
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: don't know how embarrassing someone's going to find out, and

574
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: this is gonna be terrifying. They're all gonna like kick

575
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: me out or something for being an imposter. Anyway, So

576
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: the guy at the front said, if that's you, just

577
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: gather with the people around you, like pray, ask God

578
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: for healing, and that they made no more big deal

579
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: of it about that. The next morning, we always had

580
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: a team meeting. They are about forty to fifty people

581
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: on team for this venue, sitting in a circle and

582
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: we'd share testimonies from the day before, all the rest

583
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: of it. And there was this guy in maybe about

584
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: his sixties. I think his name was Eric, and he said, Oh,

585
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: so last night there was a word that God wanted

586
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: to heal the left knee. And he was like, two

587
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: years ago, I was in a motorbike accident and my

588
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: left knee got smashed to pieces. And last night that

589
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: word came from the stage and a bunch of teenagers

590
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: prayed for me, and now look what I can do.

591
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: And he had been walking with a crutch up to

592
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: that point, and then he proceeded to run around the

593
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: room and start jumping up and down. And do you

594
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: want to know what I did? In that moment? I

595
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: burst into tears and said, Jesus, don't ever do that

596
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: to me ever again. I can't cope, Like that's too much.

597
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: I have since rescinded that prayer and God, no, actually

598
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: it is quite fun. All right, let's go. But that

599
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: was my first encounter, so I didn't have a clue

600
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: that God was speaking. I felt like a fake and

601
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: a fraud, and it felt terrifying. I have since learned

602
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: that sometimes it still feels like that. But what I

603
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: have also learned is to, rather than assume God is

604
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: not speaking, kind of give myself a bit of grace

605
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: and say, well, what if it is God? So I

606
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: think we have been given imaginations for a reason, Like

607
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: if you can imagine something, if I can say pink

608
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: elephant to you, you'll have a picture of a pink

609
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: elephant in your mind. That's the place I think God

610
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: gives pictures. So sometimes people say, oh, I don't get pictures.

611
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't get pictures from God. I was like,

612
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: if you can imagine a pink elephant. While I'm talking

613
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: about a pink elephant right now, I believe God could

614
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: give you a picture, either for yourself or someone else,

615
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: if he wanted to. It's up to him, you know.

616
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: It's not like we don't get to choose. But I

617
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: think he does use dreams. I think he does use pictures.

618
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: I think he uses all of our senses. I think

619
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: when we're saying that we're going to pray for someone,

620
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: and we're like, if we're with them in person and

621
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: we're looking at them, it might be something on their clothes,

622
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: or it might be something like that we see in

623
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: the room, and God might just bring our attention to that,

624
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: and then we can say, God, you know, what are

625
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: you wanting me to know about this? Or what are

626
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: you're showing me about this? And what I have found

627
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: happens more recently is I might have a picture of

628
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: something and then it makes me google it because I'm like,

629
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: what is that? And then There'll be something in the

630
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: description of the thing. I'm like, Oh, that's really cool.

631
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: Maybe this is what we're saying and so and so

632
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: I think what does it look like? And feel like

633
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: for me? Now, it'll be like often it only happens

634
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: if I'm intentionally praying for someone. So yes, there are

635
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: those times of interruption where suddenly like someone might come

636
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: to mind and then you're like, oh, it's of you,

637
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: and then I started praying and all this it. But

638
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: it more often happens that if somebody says, hey, can

639
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: you pray for this thatay other, I'd be like yeah, sure,

640
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: and I do it in that moment. So if I'm

641
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: on my phone messaging, I'll literally be like, in the moment, God,

642
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: I just want to pray for it, Like God, I

643
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: just want to pray for John, Like you see him,

644
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: you know what he's going through, you know the stuff

645
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: that he's carrying, Like, just encourage him, Lord, like let

646
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: him know what you want him to know, Like give

647
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: him the words that you need and It won't always

648
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: be that I'm asking for something to then share with you,

649
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: But sometimes a verse will come to mind, a word

650
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: might come to mind, and then and then usually it'll

651
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: be like, God, do you want me to share this?

652
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: Because just because like God shows us stuff, it isn't

653
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: always for sharing. Sometimes it's for you the individuals. Sometimes

654
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: it is for someone else. Sometimes it's just you know,

655
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: just sit and pondle with and so and so. Then

656
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: if I think it is for you, I'll be like, Hey,

657
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, I was praying for you and I just

658
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: saw this picture or had this word or this verse

659
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: came to mind, and I just really hope it blesses you,

660
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: and then just offer it. And because I think that's

661
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: the thing with like listening to God for other people,

662
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: or like if somebody gives you a word and you're

663
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: receiving it, that's not the gospel truth. Like you still

664
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: have a job to weigh it and to take it

665
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: to God and go, is there something in this that

666
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: you want me to to receive from you or to

667
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: hear from you, to check it against scripture? Is it biblical?

668
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: If it's not biblical, it's not from God. He's not

669
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: He doesn't speak out both sides of his mouth. He

670
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: is truth, and like, yeah, if something's not biblical, then

671
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: is what I say to that? Like, you have to

672
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: know your Bible if you want to know what God

673
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: sounds like. You can't separate the two because how are

674
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: you going to work out if the thought that you've

675
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: had come to your head is God or not God?

676
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: If you don't know the sorts of things that he says.

677
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: And to find out the sorts of things that he says,

678
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: we can look at Jesus. And the best place to

679
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: look at the things that Jesus said is to go

680
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: to the Scripture. So I think if you are in

681
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: that place and you are going like, but how do

682
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: I know that it's God? Or like I've had this thought?

683
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: How do I know? How do I know? Just go

684
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: to the Bible? Does it align with the Bible? Ask

685
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: other Christians that you respect that have been walking with

686
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: Jesus for a while, like, get them to pray. Sometimes.

687
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: My favorite and it's a bit sneaky if I'm trying

688
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: to weigh something up is to say to people that

689
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: I love and trust, Hey, I'm trying to discern something.

690
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you anything about it. But

691
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: if you could pray and let me know what you think,

692
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: that'd be great. And then when you get the things

693
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: that really align, you're like, okay, God, I knew you

694
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: loud and clear. And I think if God really wants

695
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: you to know something, he's not a meanie. He's not

696
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: playing hide and seek where he's like, haha, you have

697
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: to try and find the things I'm saying. He wants

698
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: to be found by us. He wants to be known.

699
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: He wants us to know his voice. And you know,

700
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: Jesus even says, my sheet know my voice, like we

701
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: will know when it's God talking, like we just will.

702
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: And maybe we have to learn to discern what he

703
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: sounds like. But everybody who says that they love Jesus

704
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: and they want Jesus to be their lord and savior

705
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: can hear him, even if it's just starting with scripture.

706
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: He speaks through scriptures, the living word. It's great. It's

707
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: a great start before you get onto the kind of

708
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: more nuanced ream of words. For now, for people, just

709
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: start with the Bible. The Bible's brilliant.

710
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: I love that you re you know, reemphasize that it

711
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: has to line up with scripture. I mean, it just

712
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: does and then and that's why you should Your writing

713
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: time should include scripture, right, yes, because if yours lately,

714
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 2: if your biding time doesn't include scripture, and you hear something,

715
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: it's it's really hard to figure out is this me

716
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: or is this God? Right? Yeah? The other thing I

717
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: want to go back to is you started that answer

718
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: with something I think that's really important, and that is humility,

719
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: right to understand that like I can and do and

720
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 2: will get this wrong, and yet also balancing that with

721
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: but what if this is the Lord? Right? And here's

722
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: the thing I think when you know, as I've talked

723
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: to him about this and gotten to know her, the

724
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: humility that is marked with anytime she says you know,

725
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: you know, I kind of have this picture like see

726
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: if this lines up, like the people who are out

727
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: there saying, the Lord gave me this word, and they're

728
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: just they have a quote unquote word for everyone, right,

729
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: and they are just you know, it's like Oprah, like

730
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: you get a word, you get a word, everyone gets

731
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 2: a word, yeah, and it becomes about them, Like those

732
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: are the people that I'm like, m are red flag, right,

733
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: But people like em who I've heard give you know

734
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: words two and four people and encourage them, like you

735
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: look at you know what Paul talks about and edification

736
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: and building up the body and what those are you Like,

737
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: that's what em is doing on a daily basis, and

738
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: and she's doing it with humility, right, And so I

739
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: think that's also a good gauge of a yourself. But

740
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: then also from other people, are they telling you that

741
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: God's telling you do things that really if you think

742
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: about it, you're like, well, that's really just like for

743
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: you or that's you or that's you know what I mean. Yeah,

744
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: And so I love that you talked about humility. You

745
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: had talked about this like the Google thing, and I

746
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: would love for you to tell the the snory the

747
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: story of the snake. I just combined two words there.

748
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: But this is something that happened. We were on a

749
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: call together and you did this thing, this image, and

750
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: you googled and it was like, oh my gosh, so

751
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: tell the story of the snake. Yeah.

752
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: So our mutual friend who was on the call with

753
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: us as well, was just sharing about really challenging you

754
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: to date. And in part of as they were describing

755
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: what was going on for them, they used the word shedding,

756
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: and instantly I had a picture of a snake skin,

757
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: like an old dead snake skin in my mind, and

758
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: I was like, huh, interesting. They carried on talking, this

759
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: image didn't go away, so I thought, I wonder what,

760
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, what goes on with snakes when they shed

761
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: their skin and all the rest of it. So I

762
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: did a quick little google like what happens with a

763
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: snake shedding at skin? And there are a few things

764
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: that came up. One was around gross and like they

765
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: have to shed in order to be able to grow.

766
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: They can't, you know, their skins don't stretch with them,

767
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: and so I was like, Okay, that's kind of cool.

768
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: That makes sense, like in a kind of biblical way

769
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: that like when we get stretched, you know, for growth.

770
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: That's cool.

771
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense a worth of it. The one

772
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: that really stood out for me, though, was to do

773
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 1: with a snake. When it is about to shed its skin,

774
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: its eyes go cloudy and it can no longer see clearly,

775
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: and so it almost gets defensive. It goes into hiding.

776
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't want people to really see it because it's

777
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: unsure of what's happening because it can't see clearly. And

778
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, there us. So I just said,

779
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: in a course of our conversation, you know, as you've

780
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: been talking, I had this picture of snake skin, did

781
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: a quick google. Here's some cool facts. Love a fun fact.

782
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm all about fun fact. Here's some fun facts about

783
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: snakes and shedding. And I said, but here's the thing

784
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: that I think, really maybe God wants to encourage you

785
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: with is because they had talked about feeling insecure about

786
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: the season that they were in and not knowing what

787
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: was next and all the rest of it. And I

788
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: was like, look, this is what happens to snakes, and

789
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: so I just wonder whether God wants to encourage you

790
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: that Actually it's okay that you feel this way, because

791
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: whilst you can't see what's going on, God can. And

792
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: this is part of an opportunity for grace. You know,

793
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: you're going to come out of it the other side

794
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: and then take that image in the moment and pray

795
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: into it for that person and say, God, you know

796
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: there's anything here, and trust that as you're praying, God

797
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: will put words in your mouth that will edify and

798
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: build upon that for the person that is unique to them.

799
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: So that was Yeah, that was the snake story.

800
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great, like really practical example

801
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: of what this looks like in your life when it's

802
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: for other people.

803
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

804
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 2: I think the other common question or concern or frustration

805
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: that I get from people is, I you know, they claim,

806
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: at least I'm doing all the things you say, I'm

807
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: spending time with the Lord, I'm doing this, I'm doing that,

808
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: you know, and I am not hearing anything. I am

809
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: not getting anything. And I wonder if you have any

810
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 2: advice or thoughts for people who are struggling to hear

811
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 2: from God, if there's if there's some things that maybe

812
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: they can try or that they maybe need to be

813
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: on the lookout for. We'll be right back after this.

814
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: I love that question because I think that's something that

815
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: we could all relate to those seasons where actually it's

816
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: really hard to discern what God is saying and you

817
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: feel really isolated and you wonder if he's still there. So,

818
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: first of all, like, if you're in that place, then

819
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: I just want to say, like, have grace, because that's

820
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: a normal experience and feeling of walking with Jesus, to

821
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: have these seasons where we feel like he's far away.

822
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: Or we feel like he's not speaking, And I say

823
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: feel on purpose because the truth of the Word is

824
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: that He will never leave or forsake us. He is

825
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: always with us. And so the first thing I would

826
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: say is to just be mindful of the stories and

827
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: the narratives you're telling yourself in that season, things like

828
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: God never speaks to me. I can't hear God like

829
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: you can and you will be able to, but in

830
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: this season it feels like you can't. So just first

831
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,479
Speaker 1: of all, just be mindful of the narrative you're telling

832
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: yourself about your season. The second thing that I would

833
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: say is it's kind of like it might feel a

834
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: bit jarring, but I think it comes down to obedience.

835
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: And I have always been quite like blase and black

836
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: and white that being obedient to God is easy because

837
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: if he tells you to do something, you just do it.

838
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: That's like, it's black and white, easy peasy. The challenge

839
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: with obedience is exactly this thing that we're talking about

840
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: of figuring out what it is that God is saying

841
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: and having clarity that it is God for sure. And

842
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: so I think if you're in a season where you're

843
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: feeling like God's not saying anything new. My first question

844
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: would be, has God told you something previously or shown

845
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: you something previously that you're not actually yet doing. Did

846
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: He ask you to do something and you're not being

847
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: obedient on it. Has He been niggling you to like

848
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: lay the thing down, pick the thing up, forgive the

849
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: person I don't know, stop the habit, invite the broken

850
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: person in, you know, whatever.

851
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: It might be.

852
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: There's so many things of scripture like has he asked

853
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: you to do something and you've actually not done it?

854
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: Because I think with God, it's rare to get like

855
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: the next thing if we've not been obedient with the

856
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: first thing. And so if you're really really stuck for

857
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: what that is, it looks like love God and love

858
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: your neighbor. Like, let's not make it more complicated than

859
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: it needs to be. We don't all need big, grand plans.

860
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: It might look like stacking chairs at the end of

861
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: your church service. What's like the next right thing in

862
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: front of you to do that's going to love God

863
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: and love other people. Start there, and as you are

864
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: obedient with the little things, he will entrust greater things

865
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: to you. And that's the same in terms of like

866
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: getting clarity on the guidance and the steps and what's

867
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: next and where to live and who to marry and

868
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, what to do on Tuesday, like all those

869
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: things great and well and good, but we're not going

870
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: to kind of go there if we're not doing the

871
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: basics of loving God and loving other people. And so

872
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: I would like I thought, once, once upon a time,

873
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: this rare moment happened where I thought my husband was

874
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: really wise because he said to me, just do the

875
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 1: next right thing, and he had this whole little spiel

876
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: about it. And then I realized that actually he had

877
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: just been watching Disney and in Frozen two, there's a

878
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: whole song. There's a whole song that Anna or Anna Anna,

879
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't watch it. I'm terrible, and

880
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: sings about do the next right thing. And I was like, ah,

881
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: so here's me thinking my hubbies, super wise pastor man

882
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: actually do just loves Frozen. So but there's truth in it.

883
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: There's biblical truth in that as well. It's like, what

884
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: has God put in front of you, do the next

885
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: right thing? And as you do, as you trust him,

886
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: as you keep showing up in your Bible, as you

887
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 1: keep showing up and offering your day and saying, Lord,

888
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: here I am send me. He will bring things to you,

889
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 1: He will put people in your path. He will give

890
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 1: you like the thought of like, oh I should text

891
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: that person I've not chatted to them for a while,

892
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 1: And that might be the Holy Spirit speaking just as

893
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: simple as sending a text or taking a coffee. It

894
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: could be like that simple and you're hearing from God.

895
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: You're just not attributing it to him because you think

896
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: it's not significant enough. It's not like the grand Like

897
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: I see a picture of a woman in pink and

898
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: she is holding a garden trowel, like like, that's weird.

899
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: We don't all need to be going around doing that,

900
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: but we do need to be going around loving people

901
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: and honoring them and being gracious and forgiving people who

902
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: have hurt us and choosing to love our neighbor. Right.

903
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: I think that's a big one. Like, like, you know,

904
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: when I went on this retreat kind of two weeks

905
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: before I hit my rock bottom and really you know,

906
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: kind of came to groups with who I had become

907
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: and what I had become. I remember we got this questionnaire,

908
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: you know, like twenty four hours or so before we

909
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: left and it was just like made such a big

910
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: deal about like who in your life haven't you forgiven?

911
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't know, like and honestly, like

912
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: at the time, I couldn't think of it, you know,

913
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: but you know, as you know, we went on this

914
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 2: retreat and talked like unforgiveness and resentment I've come to

915
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: learn and understand is such a blocker to so many

916
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: of the spiritual things in our lives. And I think

917
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: what God wants to do, because you know, there's truth

918
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 2: to that idea, which is a worldly phrase that says,

919
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, unforgiveness is like you know, uh, poison and

920
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: expecting the other person to get sick. It's like, you know,

921
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: it makes us sick, right, Yeah, And so I think

922
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: we have to really be in tune with unforgiveness and

923
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: resentment and understand. And I've written on this is like

924
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: forgiving someone is not a one time thing, you know.

925
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: I'd steen in the corner with the guy who wrote

926
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: Country on this on the podcast, right, and he's like,

927
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: my dad was abusive to my mom. I didn't just

928
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: forgive him one time. I had to forgive him every time.

929
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: I thought about it, right, And the same with some

930
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: people in my life currently, Like I have to forgive

931
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,959
Speaker 2: them every time I think about it, you know, And.

932
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: So I I.

933
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 2: Really think that's an important point, is like, yeah, yeah,

934
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 2: you're struggling one hundred per.

935
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you think about the Lord's prayer, right, there's

936
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: not a whole lot of stuff when the disciples said,

937
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: Jesus teach us to pray, there's not a whole lot

938
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: of stuff that he put in that prayer. You know,

939
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: it's short enough that we can remember it. But what

940
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: was one of the things deemed important? Forgive us us?

941
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: Since as we forgive those who sin against us? It

942
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: is so key. Here's an assumption and central, Yeah, we

943
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: have to do this, you know. There's there's also the

944
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 1: verse as well, isn't it like, oh, you know about

945
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: like you're not going to be forgiven unless you forgive.

946
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: I know, it's like it's quite it's quite heavy.

947
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: And the message.

948
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my little version, and Jesus is much more

949
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: gracious than that. And no, but it is so important.

950
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: And I also have had seasons in life where, you know,

951
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: the way that we have been treated and some of

952
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: the things that happened when we left New Zealand. My

953
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: whole entire family had to literally move to the other

954
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: side of the world because of the way that we

955
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: were being treated, which was wrong and not right. And and

956
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: I I could totally sit down have a cup of

957
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: tea with the couple that were kind of at the

958
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: center of all. They don't want to do that with me,

959
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: that's fine, But at the time, and through a period

960
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: of multiple years, I really used John Eldredge has like

961
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: a little prayer. I think he has like an app,

962
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: like a thirty day resilience app or something if someone

963
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: wanted to check it out. But it's got this line

964
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: and it says, Jesus, I give everything and everyone to you.

965
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: That's it, Jesus, I give everything and everyone to you,

966
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: because actually forgiving people when there's like really bad stuff

967
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: that has gone on, it's not about condoning. It's not

968
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: about forgetting. It's not about saying the thing was okay,

969
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 1: that it happened, but we have to release it back

970
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: to Jesus. We have to let it go because we

971
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: are too small to hold these things and carry these things,

972
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: because they are spiritual and they're not just in the natural.

973
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: And so for me that was a massive like, and

974
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: I would physically hold my hands open and I wouldn't

975
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: say I give. I would say I release because the

976
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: web release is really important to me. But I'd say, Jesus,

977
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: I release everything and everyone to you. Over time, I

978
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: was able to add things in like would you bless them?

979
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: Would you bless them? Would you pour out favor on

980
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: their life? And that's not something that we can do

981
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: in our own strength, but that we're called to love

982
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: our enemies. We're called to forgive. And so if you're

983
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: not hearing from God and you do know that there's

984
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: people that you've not forgiven, then I would agree with John,

985
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: like just bring that to Jesus. He's not asking you

986
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: necessarily to go and like call that person up or

987
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: sit down with them. That might not be healthy, that

988
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: might not be safe to do that, but you can

989
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: do the business with God. You can say, Lord, help me.

990
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: And even if you like there's no way on this

991
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: planet that I can forgive that person, then start where

992
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 1: you're at. Don't pretend you're somewhere you're not. Start where

993
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: you're at, and you'll say, Okay, God, I know that

994
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: your word says I'm supposed to forgive them, but I

995
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: don't even want to right now, but I'm showing up

996
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: and I'm talking to you about this. So I'm going

997
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: to trust you to lead me forward through this and

998
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: just be real with Jesus, because he's big enough to

999
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: be able to take how you actually feel rather than

1000
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: how you think you're supposed to feel, and then he

1001
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: can do business with you and move you forward. And

1002
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: I guarantee that, like you'll start to hear from him

1003
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: if you are willing to let him have access to

1004
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: all areas of your life and not just keep some

1005
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: parts held back because they're too painful or too prickly

1006
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: or too private or whatever else.

1007
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: Okay, there's you know. I've gotten back. I've gotten back

1008
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 2: to like physically writing things down. I've realized in my

1009
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: older age as I approach forty.

1010
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: It's a great age day where you'll love it.

1011
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I used to like, I used to be

1012
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: the guy that like I would wake up in the

1013
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: middle of the night and be like, oh, remember that

1014
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 2: in the morning, and I actually would or like yeah

1015
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, just file that away, and I

1016
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: file and you know, and now I'm like and then

1017
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 2: I was like doing it on my phone, like, no,

1018
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 2: I have to write down. So I've got like four

1019
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 2: things I've written down that I want to say bring

1020
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: this to a close. But the first thing, if you saw,

1021
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: if you're watching this at the Veritas Daily dot com,

1022
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: you might see the reflection in my glasses that I

1023
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 2: wasn't like checking NC double A, you know, March Madness scores,

1024
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 2: which is happenings are recording this I was. I was

1025
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: looking for some old posts and some old things that

1026
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 2: that I think are helpful, and so one of them

1027
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: is I wrote this post where I felt like the

1028
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: Lord was really saying to me, like John, what if

1029
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: you started living like I will provide instead of worrying?

1030
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: If I will? And I think as you are talking,

1031
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 2: I'm gonna practice this as you were talking. What I

1032
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 2: wrote down is what if, like if you're having a

1033
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: hard time hearing from the Lord? What if you what

1034
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 2: if you if if God were speaking to you, what

1035
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: might he be saying? Like what if that's the question

1036
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 2: you asked yourself. Okay, I don't, I'm not here, but

1037
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: if but if he were speaking to me, right, what

1038
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 2: do I think he might be saying? Right? Yeah, I

1039
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: think that's a that's a that can be a key question.

1040
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 2: And then that brings him to the second thing. This

1041
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 2: guy who led this retreat that I went on two

1042
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: weeks before kind of hitting my rock bottom, he said

1043
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 2: he has these three criteria for kind of filtering things through,

1044
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: like how am I is this from the Lord? And

1045
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 2: he says often it is either counterintuitive, counter cultural, or awkward?

1046
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: And I think those are really good, right, Like counterintuitive, countercultural,

1047
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: or awkward. Like I even just think of the snake story, right,

1048
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 2: You're like this person's talking and all of a sudden,

1049
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm kind of envisioning snakes now, I'm googling snakes.

1050
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm like I'm seeing videos about them shedding. What is

1051
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 2: going on here? You know? And again that's not like necessary,

1052
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: that's not necessarily like a that God can't speak outside

1053
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 2: of those three things. But I think it's a really

1054
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: good tool. Right Is this counterintuitive? Is it countercultural? Or

1055
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: is it awkward? And I can say, like, as I

1056
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: think back to me, like pretty much everything has fallen

1057
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: into one of those three camps, especially for me, the counterintuitive, right,

1058
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: Like this doesn't make sense, you know, I would say

1059
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 2: that my life since aiming for Jesus and getting sobriety

1060
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: thrown in the counter intuitive aspect has just been massive.

1061
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: So if God were speaking to you, what might he

1062
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: be saying? And then use those three things counterintuitive, countercultural,

1063
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: and awkward.

1064
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: Can I just add one for if it's somebody else,

1065
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: because I think they're really great for yourself, and actually,

1066
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: even if it's for yourself, another question I would ask

1067
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: is it encouraging? Is it going to build them up?

1068
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: Because we get too many of these people going around

1069
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: like bashing people over the head with like, oh God

1070
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: said this thing, and actually it's just nasty. I'm like,

1071
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: that's not how Jesus sounds. He builds his people up.

1072
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: Challenging things can still be encouraging when they come with

1073
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: love and from love. And so if you are kind

1074
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: of wanting to, like, you know, you're craving the gift

1075
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: of prophecy and you're wanting to grow in it and

1076
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: these are godly things to desire, then I'm like, yeah,

1077
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: me too, I'm on that page. But just like have

1078
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: that like umbrella of encouragement over anything and everything that

1079
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: you let go out of your mouth, because if it's

1080
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: not going to be encouraging, don't share that that's like,

1081
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: maybe it's a true word that you've heard from the Lord.

1082
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: But if it's not going to encourage someone else, you

1083
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: don't need to tell them. You can just keep talking

1084
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: to Jesus about that thing and like pray for that person.

1085
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, is it encouraging, because then that's when also

1086
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: they'll seek Jesus and not you, you know, as the messenger

1087
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: and the most powerful words I have received. I can

1088
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: even tell you the names of the people, what they

1089
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: look like, because the response in me was such one

1090
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: of like wow, God, that you would say that, that

1091
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: you would see me, that you would like share this

1092
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: word or this picture, and like, wow, Jesus is amazing.

1093
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: Yeah you don't like you said that earlier, like you

1094
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: don't see the person. That's where the humanity comes in.

1095
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: So I've just added to those very three you know,

1096
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: countercultural awkwardness. Totally get the awkwardness one, but also like

1097
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: is it encourage if you're planning on sharing it with

1098
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: someone else? Is it encouraging?

1099
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. Two other things then I would say

1100
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: is you know, as we think about asking ourselves questions,

1101
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: and I love that you use that word release. I

1102
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: think that's good I think especially for people who have

1103
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: struggled with control, right, And so you know, if you're

1104
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 2: having a hard time hearing from God, ask yourself, have

1105
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: I released? And just fill in the blank? Have I released?

1106
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: Like what is that thing that if someone were to

1107
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 2: say to you that, you'd be like, oh, right, have

1108
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 2: you released control? Have you released your husband? Have you

1109
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 2: released anger? Have you released a right? And not in

1110
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: I need to go blow off steamway, you know.

1111
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: But like pride, pride is another big one. I reckon,

1112
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: that's a massive come on, let's get all our dirty

1113
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: laundry out.

1114
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, Have you released your finances? Have you

1115
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: released your future? Right? Like I just think that.

1116
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: Your plans, your plans, Like again, I'm in Proverbs at

1117
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: the minute, and so much of it is like, yeah,

1118
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, we plan all these things, and we make

1119
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: these grand plans, and sometimes they are grand plans for Jesus,

1120
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: but his will will be done at the end of

1121
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: the day. He is the one who determines and establishes

1122
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: our steps, and so sometimes we have to let go

1123
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: of the big grand plans of how we're going to

1124
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: save the world for Jesus, because He's already done it.

1125
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: He doesn't need us to do that, right, take the

1126
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: pressure off.

1127
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this. And then the final thing,

1128
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: you know, when we were talking about forgiveness, there is

1129
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: something that I wanted to kind of make sure that

1130
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 2: people understan is that I think and I'm working on

1131
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: in my mind at least an article on this is

1132
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: there's a difference. And I've said it in some other things,

1133
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: but I think I want to highlight it even more,

1134
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: is that there's a difference between reconciliation and restoration. Yeah,

1135
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 2: and so you know I don't because of the sin

1136
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 2: and the brokenness in the world, restoration is not always possible. Right.

1137
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 2: So for example, I've gotten you know, I've gotten sideways

1138
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: with people, and I have reconciled with them, right, I

1139
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: have you know, said sorry, or maybe they've said sorry

1140
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: to me, right. But man, you know, it's not that

1141
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 2: I'm still holding on to things, or maybe they're still

1142
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: holding on to things. But because of just the way

1143
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: that the sin and brokenness and the consequences of actions happens,

1144
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: like will will, we won't ever fully be restored to

1145
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: who or what we were before. What. I love that

1146
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: and is that still possible, yes, But I'm not fighting

1147
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 2: for that right. I'm not saying, hey, nothing, you know,

1148
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: all of this that's happened is whoey because we haven't

1149
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: you know, it's not exactly like it was before. No,

1150
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 2: Like there's reconciliation and restoration are two separate things, and

1151
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 2: I think sometimes feel confuse that and then they say, oh,

1152
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 2: God hasn't worked, or that person hasn't really said sorry,

1153
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: or maybe I haven't because it's not exactly like it was.

1154
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways my wife and I relationship,

1155
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 2: I would say is restored, but it's not the same

1156
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 2: as it was when I was drinking.

1157
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1158
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: I think that's a really key thing. Is because the

1159
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: word restoration or restored in and of itself is semantically

1160
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: depending on how you're hearing that, you might think very

1161
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: like two people can think very different things, and so

1162
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: restoration isn't always a return to the original state. Yes,

1163
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: sometimes you can restore things and it actually becomes a

1164
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: new thing. And so I would agree with you that

1165
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: reconciliation restoration not the same. But I would also even

1166
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: say with reconciliation again, as some people hear that and

1167
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: understand that, they will hear that meaning to groups or

1168
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: parties or people can always come back together because that's

1169
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: what like in sign language. So fun fact, I had

1170
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: a degree in sign language. In British sign language, the

1171
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: sign for reconcile is literally like the kind of coming together,

1172
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: like linking hands. If you're listening, it's like kind of

1173
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: two hands linking together, and it's like this kind of

1174
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: connection and chain. Now that takes two hands for that

1175
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: reconciliation to work. Sometimes in life you can have one

1176
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: party who is prepared to make the steps to do

1177
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: the forgiveness, to move forward, to come towards, but you

1178
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: have another party who's not prepared to do that. That

1179
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that forgiveness hasn't happened. It doesn't mean that

1180
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: God's not in that. It just means that they've not

1181
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: decided to come to the table for that joining together.

1182
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: And so I think again, like how you're hearing a word,

1183
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: if you're thinking for true forgiveness to have happened, it

1184
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 1: means things reti or to exactly how they were before,

1185
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: or they're reconciled. That everybody's like best mates. Again, absolutely not.

1186
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't always look like that. It's not always safe,

1187
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: like in a very practical worldly physical way for people

1188
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: to be in other people's lives. But that doesn't mean

1189
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 1: that forgiveness can still not rain and that God can

1190
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: make a beautiful thing out of something that was very

1191
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: broken and very wrong. And so yeah, I would agree

1192
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: with you. And I think also, you know, like let's

1193
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: not let's not forget that we're living in the light

1194
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: of eternity and so one day every tier will be

1195
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: gone and every issue will be resolved and there will

1196
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: be perfect reconciliation and perfect restoration of our relationships with

1197
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: God and with one another. But yeah, sometimes on this

1198
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: side of heaven, it's not going to be perfectly peachy

1199
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: and that's okay.

1200
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you so much for this. I think

1201
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: this is really helpful. It's going to be one of

1202
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 2: those that I just those podcasts that I continue to

1203
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: just like send people like, Hey, you're struggling, listen to

1204
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 2: this right, Like, I think it's very practical yet very spiritual,

1205
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 2: and I'm really thankful for you. If people want to

1206
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 2: learn more about grow and Go, if they want to

1207
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: maybe join a cohort, where can they go to do

1208
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: all of that?

1209
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so many places to hang out if you want

1210
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: to find out about grow and go cohorts. My website

1211
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: M Tyler and it's em fun fact short for Emily.

1212
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: Lots of people keep calling me Emma at the moment,

1213
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: it's not my name. My name is Emily, but it's

1214
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: em and then Tyler t y l e r dot com,

1215
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: forward slash cohorts. Otherwise, there places that I show up

1216
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: tend to be Instagram, which is Hello, M Tyler, or Substack,

1217
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: which is Mtyler dot substack dot com. So one of

1218
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 1: those three places you'll probably be able to find.

1219
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 2: Me, and those are in the show notes as well

1220
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 2: or in the description here. So M thank you so

1221
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 2: much because there's a time difference and you know your

1222
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: your family's having starting to have dinner in the other room,

1223
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 2: and so I appreciate this, I appreciate you coming on,

1224
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 2: and I'm just so grateful for our friendship and the

1225
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: way the Lord has used you to keyword encourage he

1226
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 2: encourage me.

1227
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: So thanks, Am, I'm glad, You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

1228
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 2: Can you see how and why Am has become one

1229
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: of my favorite people? First of all, I just I

1230
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 2: have such a soft spot for people with British accents,

1231
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: you know, I think I just want to sometimes like

1232
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 2: just put can you just like read the Bible to

1233
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 2: me while I fall asleep? That would be great. But honestly,

1234
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 2: I think she she is such an encourager and that's

1235
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: why I like that she added that kind of fourth

1236
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: litmus test. Right, So so again counter cultural, counterintuitive, and awkward.

1237
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: And then I think the one that em added encouraging,

1238
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: which is which I love how she qualified that too, right.

1239
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Brenda Blaine. Her her Instagram

1240
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 2: handle is bun on my Head, also on substack, and

1241
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: she's talking about how how profits. You know, a lot

1242
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 2: of people think it's just like fore telling, but you know,

1243
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 2: as we learned in seminary, it's also fourth telling, right,

1244
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 2: And actually most of it is forth telling, and that's

1245
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 2: calling people to something better, right, And so when you're

1246
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 2: encouraging someone, it's it can be calling them to something

1247
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 2: better because you want what's better for them. Like even

1248
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 2: when you think about the concept of church discipline, right,

1249
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 2: people a lot of people get scared and they think

1250
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: it's such a boogeyman urn. But the idea of church

1251
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: discipline is we want something better for you, Like there

1252
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: you are missing out, and so we want to encourage

1253
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 2: you toward a more flourishing, fulfilled life with Jesus. This

1254
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 2: thing that you're doing is holding me back, right, so

1255
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 2: I love that encouragement factor being there as well. Go

1256
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: check her out. I think you know. If you feel

1257
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 2: like you've connected with her at all, her material and

1258
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 2: her stuff is really good. Thank you as well to

1259
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 2: Life Audio lifeaudio dot com, where you can find other podcasts,

1260
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 2: and if you are interested in getting my book or

1261
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 2: finding out more about what I'm doing, you can go

1262
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: to Christianalcoholic dot com. We'll see you here next week