1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Life Audio. So you did evil, but God used the 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: evil things that you did for good. 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: He can take the. 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Problems, the pains, the trials, the traumas of our lives 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: and He can actually take and create good. 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 2: Out of it. 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Faith over Fear podcast, where we discuss 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 3: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 3: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and I have to say anxiety is 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: a beast y'all, but with the help of the Holy Spirit, 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: we have the power to tame it. To do so, 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 3: we might need to shift our approach. Some many of 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: us have learned to respond to our inner chaos by 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 3: suppressing it, distracting ourselves from it, or for getting completely 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 3: sucked into our overwhelm that tends to leave us feeling stuck. 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: God wants to help us break free from that self 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: defeating cycle, to take us beyond surface level and insufficient 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 3: coping mechanisms to some of the most anchoring truths possible, 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: knowing who He is at his core, and learning how 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 3: to apply those truths to our lives and to our 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 3: greatest struggles. And in today's episode, I'm speaking with doctor 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 3: Malcolm Yarnell, a theology research professor, he's joining me to 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: talk about the unchanging character of God and finding security 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: in who he is, in all his vastness. 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, doctor Yarnell for joining us. 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm joining you from 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: Fort Worth, Texas. 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 3: Lovely professor and author, Doctor Malcolm Yarnell, as Research Professor 29 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: of Theology at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and as 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: editor of the Southwestern Journal of Theology. And Doctor Yarnell, 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: I know you understand deeply the character of God from 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: an academic standpoint, but I wonder if there's also been 33 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: times when those truths felt deeply personal, maybe even something 34 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: of a lifeline to you. 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: It has been a lifeline. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: One of the most important words for God in the 37 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: Bible is Father. A Catholic theologian years ago by the 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: name of Paul Vitz looked into how this idea of 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: God as Father has affected certain people, and what he 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: discovered was absolutely fascinating. Some fathers, as you know, are 41 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: not good fathers. And he discovered that many of the 42 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: major atheistic philosophers and politicians were in bad relationships with 43 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: bad fathers. And I identified with that myself. I had 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: a father who never approved of me. So I was 45 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: a lot like my mother and not like my father. 46 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: My father was more of an active man. My mother 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: was actually a genius, and so I was not like 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: him in character, intelligence, or life goals. At times he 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: could be very irrational and often abusive, And the thing 50 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: I wanted most growing up was his approval, but I 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: never could find it. The more I learned about his 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: past later, the more I resented it. And actually a 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: sense of fear early for decades really in life, was 54 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: that I would never meet my father's expectations, and then 55 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: later I feared I actually would become like him. And 56 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: so that bad relationship with a father can't affect your 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: view of God. For human beings, all fathers fell in 58 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: some way. Some fathers are worse than others. But when 59 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: we look at God, we often take our idea of 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: our earthly father, and we think God to father is 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: like that, and it's not always true. And so I 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: have had to learn to go to the Bible and 63 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: to listen to who God really is, so that I 64 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: could incorporate the Father's expectations and his gifts and his graces, 65 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: and his goodness and his nearness even when I am 66 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: in pain and learn to see who God really is 67 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: rather than to see God as I thought he was. 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: Because of my own experiences with my earthly Father. 69 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 3: I imagine a lot of our listeners can actually relate 70 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: with that, And I also appreciate how what I'm hearing 71 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: and what you said. It's a process, right, It's not 72 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: like we hear these truths once and then boom, everything 73 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: is fine and I've discovered. At least for me, fear 74 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: often exposes a gap between what I say I believe 75 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: about God and what I'm actually trusting in the moment. 76 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: And sometimes when I have anxiety and fear, it really 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: can point to lies that I've absorbed, kind of like 78 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: what you talked about with end truths I haven't fully grasped. 79 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: Do you ever feel like you're alone or you're abandoned, 80 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: or on the flip side, how to knowing that you're 81 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 3: not alone when you comfort. 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: That's a really great question, because we can feel alone 83 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: even when we're surrounded by people. So loneliness, social researchers 84 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: tell us is actually a condition that is quite prominent 85 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: among city dwellers. And you think about that they're surrounded 86 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: by people, they often fill alone, and I think it's 87 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: because we don't have an intimate connection at points in 88 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: life when we really need that, and yet God wants 89 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: that type of intimate connection with us. Jesus referred to 90 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: the Father in a very intimate name Baba, which is 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: the Aramaic, which means like papa or dada. And that 92 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: type of relationship that Jesus has with the Master of 93 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: the universe, the one who controls all things, is the 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: type of relationship that I desired and that the Lord 95 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: himself gave to me. As I learned more about who 96 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is, and as I learned more about who 97 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: God the Father really is. In Psalm one thirty nine, 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: there are times where if you feel like you're alone 99 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: and you need God's presence and you're looking for him 100 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: and you're anxious, he is actually there. I love what 101 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: it says in verses seven and following him Psalm one 102 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: thirty nine. Where can I go to escape your spirit? 103 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Where can I flee from your presence? If I go 104 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: up to heaven, You're there. If I make my bed 105 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: in the deep, you are there. If I live at 106 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the eastern horizon or settle at the western limits, even there, 107 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: your hand will lead me, your right hand will hold 108 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: on to me. I found one of the most comforting 109 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: things is when you have God or another human being 110 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: that you really trust and that is really a good 111 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: person come alongside you in your trauma or in your 112 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: anxiety and put a calming hand on your shoulder and 113 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: say I'm here for you, I'm with you wherever you are. 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: There's a great deal of comfort in what, if I 115 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: can use a theological term, is the immensity or the 116 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: omnipresence of God. Wherever you go. God is for as 117 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: Paul wrote in Him, we live and move and have 118 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: our being, and so God is present to us and 119 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: all we have to do is turn to him and 120 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: he will be there to provide the comfort we need. 121 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I really like to in the passage you 122 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: read when he said your right hand will hold me fast. 123 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: So it's like this idea we are always being held 124 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 3: or carried even when we feel like the ground beneath 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: us is giving way. I also like in that passage 126 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: how He's present even when it's darkness. Like he said 127 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: in that song, even the darkness is like light to you. 128 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: And I think it's when we're in those dark places. 129 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: It can be really hard to quote unquote feel him. 130 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: It's okay to say this is how I feel, being 131 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: honest with our feelings, but to say he's with us 132 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: in the darkness. His presence isn't dependent on our emotions, 133 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 3: which a really powerful reminder. Just say, okay, this is 134 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: this is how I feel, but this is what I 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: know to be true. 136 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that very much. 137 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: So He is the light in the darkness of One 138 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: of the most sublime ways that God is described in 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: the Biblical text is that God is light, and in 140 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: him there is no darkness at all. And Jesus, of 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: course is the light of the world who has come 142 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: into the world, and so God is the source of 143 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: all that is life and light. This is such a 144 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: comforting message for us, especially when we face darkness or 145 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: even when we face the terror of death itself. 146 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 147 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And here's a practice for listeners. When life feels 148 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: really dark, when you feel alone, pause and acknowledge his 149 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 3: nearness and maybe even speak it out loud. Maybe read 150 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: the passage that doctor Yarnew just read. And if you're 151 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 3: struggling to say, Lord, can you help me to sense 152 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 3: that you are here? Help me to see you to 153 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 3: sense what is true in that moment. As we do that, 154 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 3: our internal response can shift. So we're going to take 155 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 3: a brief break to listen to our sponsors and then 156 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: we'll be back. We're back, And I know from talking 157 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: with you, doctor Yarn now earlier, you have some insights 158 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: regarding a biblical care character named Jacob. 159 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 4: I would love if you could share a little about who. 160 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 3: He is for those unfamiliar with Old Testament history, and 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: then what it is about that biblical character that resonates 162 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: with you so deeply. 163 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Jacob is an interesting character. He is the 164 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: grandson of perhaps the most famous biblical person other than 165 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ and King David, and that is Abraham. So 166 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: there were three great patriarchs in the history of Israel 167 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: from which the nation of Israel came, and that was 168 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: Abraham and his son Isaac. And then Isaac had two 169 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: sons named Esau and Jacob. Esau and Jacob were actually twins, 170 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: but Esau was born first. Jacob his name actually means 171 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: supplanter or snatcher, because he came out of the womb 172 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: grasping onto his brother's heel, and that kind of characterized 173 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: their lives Isaac really like Esau because he was a 174 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: sportsman and he was the big, rough and ready kind 175 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: of guy, whereas Jacob was more the type of man 176 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: to think and to take care of things around the 177 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: tent and the home and everything. And yet Jacob himself, 178 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: by supplanting, and I won't get into the details, but 179 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: actually received the blessing of the firstborn, and he was 180 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: sent off to go and to marry the woman that 181 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: God and that Abraham and Isaac had arranged for him. 182 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: And so, obeying his father Isaac's will, he headed north 183 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: out of his home country, and he stopped at a 184 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: place that he actually encountered the Lord, and the Lord 185 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: gave him a promise. As he was on this journey, 186 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: and this journey to a place he had never been, 187 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: among the people he did not know, and yet he 188 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: knew that his future lay there for a time, and 189 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: the Lord gave him a message in Genesis twenty eight 190 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: and verse fifteen. The Lord said, look, I am with 191 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: you and will watch over you wherever you go. I 192 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: will bring you back to this land, for I will 193 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: not leave you until I have done what I have 194 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: promised you. And for me that is a great comfort 195 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: because no matter what journey we're on, no matter where 196 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: we are, as far from home as we might get, 197 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: God says, listen, don't worry about it. I'm with you, 198 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: I've got you, I'm beside you. One of the great 199 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: truths about God is that he is not only on 200 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: the present, present everywhere, but he is personally present to 201 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: those who trust him and follow him. And you can 202 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: also read about his story in chapter thirty two of 203 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: the same Book of Genesis. Chapters later, he's actually coming 204 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: back to meet his family, and of course he has 205 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: to meet Esau, who he doesn't want to meet because 206 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: he's actually taken from Esau, and so he's worried by that. 207 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: And out of the last night that he's spent outside 208 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: of his own homeland with fear facing before him, he 209 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: actually encounters the Lord again. And this time this idea 210 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: of a name comes up, because in verse twenty eight, 211 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: after he actually wrestled with this angel of the Lord, 212 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: the man, this angel, who most scholars think is a 213 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: representation of Christ before his incarnation, this man says to him, 214 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,239 Speaker 1: your name will no longer be Jacob, that means snatcher 215 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: or supplanter. He said, it will be Israel. And Israel, 216 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: by the way, means one who struggles with God, one 217 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: who lives with God and struggles with God. And so 218 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: it will be Israel because you have struggled with God 219 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: and with men and have purvilled. And so that actually 220 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: became his new name. He was no longer the one 221 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: who supplants. He's the one who struggles, and that means 222 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: to live in a lifelong relationship with God. And yes, 223 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: it is characterized by struggle at points, it is also 224 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: characterized by comfort because you know that the God who encounters. 225 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: You will never leave you. 226 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: By the way, it's interesting Jacob named the place where 227 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: he met God the first time Bethel, which means the 228 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: house of God. The second time he met God, that 229 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: place he named Penile, which means the face of God. 230 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: And he never was the same after, especially the second encounter, 231 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: because he had a sense of brokenness, because he had 232 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: to recognize who he, Jacob in him was, And yet 233 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: he also saw that God is the God who wants 234 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: to bless and that God did bless him, and that 235 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: really was a great comfort to him in the midst 236 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: of all of his trials. And I think that we 237 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: can find comfort in the fact that no matter what 238 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: happens in this life, no matter the struggles we have, 239 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: if we'll keep our focus on the Lord, he will 240 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: bless us. And he just actually I think God wants 241 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: to bless us. Yeah. 242 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: Well, I like that you brought up Jacob as well 243 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: when you were talking about like if we trust in God. 244 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: And one thing I find comforting about Jacob's story and 245 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: really all the stories of the patriarchs, their trust was 246 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 3: not perfect, right, because sometimes I think we can get 247 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: stuck on like, well, if I'm struggling with anxiety and fear, 248 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 3: then I must not be fully trusting God, and we're 249 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: gonna And I like that you brought up the struggle 250 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: because to me, the way I make sense of all 251 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 3: that is I am doing my best at every moment 252 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 3: to follow God. That is much different than refusing or 253 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: turning away. So so to me, that's where it kind 254 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: of lands. And the other thing I find really intriguing 255 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: about Jacob's story. I was just reading when he's on 256 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: his deathbed and so he's gone through he's gone through 257 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: a famine, and he thought his beloved son because favoritism 258 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 3: follows in that family basically, but he thought his beloved 259 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: son Joseph was killed, and he later was his grief 260 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: and when he thought his son was He's like, I'm 261 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 3: going to die with this heartache. And yet he comes 262 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: to the end of his life and he reflects back 263 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 3: on that first encounter that you mentioned, when he wrestled 264 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: with God and when God promised him. And I wonder 265 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: as I look through that story two things. Did he 266 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: temporarily doubt that promise or forget that promise, because I 267 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: think sometimes we can do that, or did he hold 268 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: tight to it throughout his life? And then in those 269 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: really dark seasons, was that even if he momentarily his 270 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: emotions came out chaotic, did it create like this firm 271 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: foundation for him that carried him through those hard points. 272 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 273 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, I think that anybody that's honest about their 274 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: own walk with the Lord or their own walk in 275 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: this life. 276 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: It's always a struggle. 277 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: And faith doesn't mean the total absence of doubt. It 278 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: does mean that you overcome doubt by trusting in the Lord. 279 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: And so to have doubts, I think is a very 280 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: human thing, and it is actually in some ways a 281 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: good thing because you learned where you may have had 282 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: an immature faith or a false faith, and so you 283 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: can grow in your faith. And I think Jacob grew 284 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: in his faith to the very end and to the 285 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: very final days of his life. And you know what, 286 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: when you talk about Jacob, remember he's Israel. So all 287 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: of the tribes of Israel come from him, and he 288 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: has all these sons and daughters, and these sons are 289 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: from whom all the different names of the tribes of 290 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: Israel come. 291 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: And you're remember there was. 292 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: A conflict among his sons, and the favored son, whose 293 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: name was Joseph, was actually sold into slavery by his 294 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: brothers and years later through divine providence. And that's another 295 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: truth about God. No matter what happens to you, God 296 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: is in control, and if you'll trust him, he has 297 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: the plan for your life that is perfect. And yes, 298 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: this world can throw you all sorts of curves, but 299 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: you can trust the Lord and he will bring you 300 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: through to the end. What was interesting is that after 301 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: Jacob dies, joseph brothers are afraid that Joseph is going 302 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: to retaliate against them, and Joseph has to call them together, 303 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: and in verse nineteen of Genesis fifty, he says, this, 304 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: don't be afraid again. You don't have to be fearful. 305 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: Am I in the place of God? Joseph says, even 306 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: though I'm a very powerful man, now I'm not God, 307 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: So don't be afraid you plan evil against me. So 308 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: these brothers did evil against Joseph, and yet Joseph is 309 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: not focusing on the evil that was done to him. 310 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: Rather, he says, next, God planned it for good. 311 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: So you did evil, but God used the evil things 312 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: that you did for good. 313 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: That's the kind of God we have. He can take. 314 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: The problems, the pains, the trials, the traumas of our lives, 315 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: and he can actually take and. 316 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 2: Create good out of it. 317 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 1: Not by the way that that takes away the evil, 318 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: not that that does away with the sins of others, 319 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: but what it does tell us is that God can 320 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: use even the evil plans of others to meet his 321 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: good plan for us. And I like what Joseph says. There, Listen, 322 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going there is a God. He's in control. 323 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: He is a good God. And even though you did 324 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: me evil, God wanted to bless you and me even 325 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: through that. 326 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 4: And that, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. 327 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 3: And tying back to our first point, that God is 328 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 3: with us because I see that in Joseph's story as well, 329 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 3: and I wonder throughout, like when you read the narrative, 330 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: you hear again God was with him. God was with him, 331 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 3: and therefore he prospered in these places where he shouldn't 332 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 3: have logically prospered. And I wonder if all of that 333 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: like because with God's presence as well. A lot of 334 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 3: times that's when his truth really takes hold, at least 335 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 3: for me, when I'm wrestling with him and I've got doubts, 336 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 3: and i turned to him in my doubts, and I'm like, Lord, 337 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: I don't get this. A lot of times, like if 338 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 3: I'm reading a certain passage of scripture, like if I 339 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: was just stuck in Joseph's when he's in the dungeon, 340 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't get it, Lord help me. And 341 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 3: a lot of times that's where those truths are able 342 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: to stick more deeply. And and to our listen, I 343 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 3: just want to reiterate what doctor Yarnelle said. It might 344 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 3: feel like our boss is in control of our paycheck 345 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: and therefore our provision, and yet God is sovereign, he 346 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 3: is our provider. We might feel like our diagnosis is 347 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 3: in control of our future. But God holds our future 348 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 3: and his plans for us took today's challenges, yesterday's pain, 349 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 3: and today's challenges into account, and so our first go 350 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: to might be I'm abandoned. This is out of control. 351 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 3: This person is sabotaging my plans. But we can reframe it. 352 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 3: And I think as we read these passages and we'll 353 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 3: put them in the show notes. As we read these 354 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 3: sections of scripture, I am learning increasingly to focus on 355 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 3: what does this reveal about God's nature? And so we 356 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: can just read through these really hard circumstances that are 357 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 3: recorded for us so that we can see how God's 358 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 3: plan continues to go forward from the beginning of time. 359 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 2: That's so important. 360 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: Another truth about God that we have to hold on to, 361 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: and it has to do with God's plan. And you 362 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: see this, for instance, in one of the texts that 363 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: we're looking at, Isaiah, chapter forty six, verses nine and ten. 364 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: Remember what happened long ago? For I am God and 365 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: there is no other. I am God, and. 366 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: No one is like me. I declare the end from 367 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: the beginning. 368 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: I love that I declare the end from the beginning, 369 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: and from long ago. What is not yet done saying, 370 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: my plan will take place, and I will do all 371 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: my will. 372 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: The truth is this, God is eternal. 373 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: God is before, beyond, above, after time, history, the beginning 374 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: of the world, and the end of the world. 375 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: God sees it all at once. 376 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: And God is in control, and He's in control of 377 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: our lives, and he is working in our lives to 378 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: take us where he wants us to go, and he 379 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: wants to bless us. 380 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: And he knows the. 381 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: End from the beginning, because as the Book of Revelation says, 382 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: he is the first and the last, the beginning and 383 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: the end, the alpha and the omega, which are the 384 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: Greek letters for A and Z if you will. So 385 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: he knows everything. He sees it all. He has a 386 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: plan for our lives, and He is working that plan 387 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: out in our lives, just as he is such a 388 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: great God, he is working out the history of the world. 389 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: And I love this truth about scripture. 390 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: The very center of all history is God's plan to 391 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: bless us, because the center of history is about how God, 392 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: the second person of the Trinity, the Word of God, 393 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: became a human being, how he died on the cross 394 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: to take away our sins, and how hero from the 395 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: dead so that whoever believes in Him can live forever 396 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: with God and be blessed forever. And I love the 397 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: fact that our God has a total plan for everything, 398 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: from the plan for the nations, from his plan for 399 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: the whole world, to his plan for our own lives. 400 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: Even Jesus said the hairs on our head, and by 401 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: the way, as a man who's losing a bit of hair, 402 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm really thankful for that because one day I hope 403 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: to have some of those hairs. Acts. 404 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 4: I love it. I love it well. 405 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 3: And as you're talking, I think there is an important 406 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: part of our discussion to mention all of these blessings 407 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: you're talking about. They come when we live in alignment 408 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: with Jesus Christ. And so I can think of times 409 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 3: in my life when I was stuck in the messy 410 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 3: middle at certain points and I didn't necessarily want to 411 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: follow where I thought God was leading. And and that's 412 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 3: when we have to really go back to, like, who 413 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: is this guy? I often think of Jesus' words in 414 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 3: John ten, verse ten, which, for those unfamiliar with that 415 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: Versus who says the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. 416 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 3: I come that you might have life and have it 417 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 3: to the full. And I like to when I'm really 418 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: struggling with yielding to God's sovereignty, to his will, to 419 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: his plan for my life, I like to picture myself 420 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 3: like at a fork on the road, and I can 421 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 3: go one of two directions. I can go towards increased 422 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: dysfunction and despair and anxiety. And I'm not saying, please 423 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: don't hear me. I'm not saying all anxiety and depression 424 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 3: are caused from always have a spiritual cause, but they 425 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 3: can have a definite spiritual cause. And if we're not 426 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 3: walking in alignment with Christ, we're not going to experience 427 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 3: the peace that he promises. And then I look at 428 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: the other fork in the road and it's like every 429 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 3: step I take that direction is leading me deeper towards 430 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 3: that thriving life that He promised. So I think there's 431 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: a It's kind of like, if we want to experience 432 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: the blessings God that plans for us, we need to 433 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 3: live the life He designed for us. 434 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting you brought up 435 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: John ten ten So as a child, I met Jesus 436 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: while hiding and reading my Bible, and I remember, especially 437 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: reading through the Gospel of John and the verse that 438 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: became my life, verse that helped me to walk in 439 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: this life and see that it's not just a darkness 440 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: and a depression and a meaninglessness, but that God wants 441 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: more for me. So much good is John ten ten 442 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: For the thief comes not but for to steal, to kill, 443 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: and to destroy. And yet Jesus says, I have come 444 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: that you might have life, and that more abundantly. 445 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 2: I think sometimes we. 446 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: Get caught up in our circumstances and the things that 447 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: have been done to us or the things that we 448 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: have done, and we forget that God has a plan. 449 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: He wants to give. 450 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: Us life, and not just life forever, but abundant life, 451 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: overflowing life, good life, the life of what is just 452 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: so right in everything. And that is the promise that 453 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: held me through so many years of especially as a 454 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: young man struggling but with depression. And so I commend 455 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: John ten ten to your listeners as a verse to 456 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: memorize and to remember always, especially during those dark times. Yeah. 457 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, And something I have to challenge myself. Do I 458 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 3: think that Jesus was speaking in hyperbole or that he 459 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 3: really meant it? 460 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 4: And I believe he really meant it. 461 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 3: So am I living like I really believe that that 462 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 3: is true. And here's a practice again for our listeners. 463 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 3: Maybe when you're struggling, name what feels out of control, 464 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 3: and then intentionally maybe you can even write it on 465 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: a slip of paper, or but intentionally in vision handing 466 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 3: it to God. Scripture calls it casting your cares on him, 467 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 3: and maybe you can say something like, God, this feels 468 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 3: really uncertain to me, but not to you, because as doctor, 469 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 3: you are now clearly laid out. Nothing is uncertain to him. 470 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 3: Nothing takes him by surprise. And when we don't know 471 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 3: how circumstances will unfold, we can anchor our souls in 472 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 3: what we do. Know that God is present, sovereign and loving, 473 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 3: and with practice we can train our minds. Scripture calls it, 474 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 3: and I just lost that you're going to train our minds. 475 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're thinking of Roman's twelve probably, so yeah, 476 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: with yeah, let your mind be transformed by the gospel. 477 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, right right, And with practice we can 478 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 3: do that and we can begin to learn, and especially 479 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: for our listeners who grew up in really unpleasant environments, 480 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 3: uncertainty will naturally feel much more elevated a lot more frightening. 481 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 4: Because as a kid, you might have had to. 482 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 3: Scan your environment and you needed to know what was 483 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: coming in order to be safe. But then now we're 484 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: learning as adults we don't have to do that because 485 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 3: we have someone who is scanning our environment. 486 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 4: For us at all time. Yeah, that's the lark Jesus Christ. 487 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: So one text that you brought up with me before 488 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the show was Romans eight, And if I could just 489 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: insert that text at this point, because I think it 490 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: backs up the point. 491 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: That you were trying to make. 492 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: You know, there are times where we struggle, where we 493 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: wonder about the evil in this world, where we ourselves 494 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: consider all of the obstacles around us. So in Romans 495 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: chapter eight, which I just think I've written about Romans 496 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: eight in several of my books, especially about the Holy Spirit. 497 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: God is father and son in Holy Spirit. He is 498 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: the one God who is three persons. And so God 499 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: the Father sent his son to die on the cross 500 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: and arise from the dead so that we could have 501 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: eternal life. He sends his spirit into our hearts so 502 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: that we can cry out to God as av a father. 503 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: And sometimes we look at the obstacles around us, and 504 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: we're like, Oh, I'm just not so sure I can 505 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: face these difficulties. And I love how Paul ends Romans 506 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: chapter eight. He says in verse thirty seven, No, in 507 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him 508 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: who loved us. 509 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: For I'm persuaded. 510 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: He says that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, 511 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor 512 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: height nor depth, nor any other created thing will be 513 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: able to separate us from the love of God that 514 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: is in Christ, Jesus. 515 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: Our Lord. 516 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: And I really believe that passage is intended to encourage 517 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: us hang on. 518 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: You can make it. 519 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: You can do it because God is with you and 520 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: he will never leave you. And nothing in this world 521 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: throws at you can defeat you because you have a conqueror, 522 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: and that conqueror is God himself, and he has He's 523 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: taken care of it, and He is going to meet 524 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: you and take you through death itself into life eternal 525 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: and life abundant. 526 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: That to me is a very hopeful message. 527 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 4: Amen. 528 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: Amen, And as we close out, I would love it 529 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: if you had actually share specifically from Romans eight thirty 530 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 3: two and very briefly if you could present the gospel 531 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: for those who don't understand what that is, who doesn't 532 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 3: don't understand what Christ is inviting us into. And then 533 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 3: I'm also going to say to our listeners, if you 534 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: have any questions, please reach out to me through the 535 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: show notes through my website. I would love to answer 536 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 3: any questions you have. But if you could read to me, 537 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 3: Romans eight thirty two really encapsulates everything you've said so far. 538 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Romans eight thirty two, the first sentence in 539 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: it really gets to the heart of what we're talking about. 540 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: He that is, God did not even spare his own son, 541 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: but gave him up for us all. How will he 542 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: not also with him grant us everything? 543 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 2: And what he is. 544 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: Saying here is, listen, God loves us so much that 545 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: he gave his only begotten son, and John three sixteen 546 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: says this in a different way, so that whoever believes 547 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: in him should not perish but have eternal life. And 548 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: so God has a great love for us, so much 549 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: so that he himself is willing to give his son's 550 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: own life so that we might live. And that to 551 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: us ought to be a great message of encouragement. Again, 552 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is truly God who became a human being 553 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: to die on the cross for our sins and to 554 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: arise from the dead, so that whoever believes in Him 555 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: should not perish but have eternal life. And by the way, 556 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: if I can mention this, I hope you will come 557 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: and speak to Jennifer if you need to give your 558 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: heart to Jesus Christ. If you want to have this certainty, 559 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: then please turn to Christ and Jennifer is there ready 560 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: to talk to you. 561 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. Amen. 562 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: We don't interpret God's goodness through our circumstances. We interpret 563 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 3: his goodness through the Cross. The more we reflect on 564 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: what God did through the Cross, I think, the better 565 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: we're able to really see His heart for us. And 566 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 3: so again faith grows stronger as we recall and meditate 567 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: on how God has cared for us in the past. 568 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 3: If this resonated with you, I invite you to join 569 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 3: my quieting fear with faith emails for daily encouragement rooted 570 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 3: in scripture. And you'll probably also enjoy doctor Yannell's book 571 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: Word Theology for every person you'll find it helpful. This 572 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 3: book explores God revealed in Christ through creation, humanity, and redemption. 573 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 3: Because to know Christ is to know God. It calls 574 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 3: every believer, not only scholars or ministry leaders, and I 575 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 3: would include those who are just kind of getting to 576 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 3: know who Jesus is. To pursue theology that moves beyond 577 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 3: abstract knowledge to transformed living and worship. Word is the 578 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 3: second volume in the Theology for Every Person series, Following 579 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: God and Preceding Spirit, which examines the Holy Spirit, Salvation, the. 580 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 4: Church, and the end. 581 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: And that sounds really good too, because the closer we're 582 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 3: walking with the Holy Spirit, the greater our piece. Doctor Arnell, 583 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us today. 584 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, and may God bless you 585 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: and your listeners. 586 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 3: To our listeners, thank you for listening. I hope today's 587 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 3: conversation encourage you to get to know God better and 588 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 3: to find comfort in his unchanging power, promises and steady presence. 589 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 3: If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to 590 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 3: subscribe to this podcast then you want miss a single 591 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 3: episode one and until next time, may you live as 592 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 3: one who truly has been set free.