1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,660 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,660 --> 00:00:08,500 Speaker 2: Parents, I don't say this very often, but this is 3 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 2: not an episode appropriate for your young children. So you 4 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: may want to pause right now and make sure that 5 00:00:14,460 --> 00:00:16,380 Speaker 2: they're not in the room when you watch or listen. 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,980 Speaker 2: But it is a topic that I think is important 7 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:25,540 Speaker 2: for us to discuss openly and candidly. Trauma can shatter 8 00:00:25,620 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: our sense of safety, identity, and trust, especially when it 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 2: comes at the hands of someone who vowed to love us. 10 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:35,739 Speaker 2: In today's episode of Your Hope-Filled Perspective, I'm joined by 11 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:39,300 Speaker 2: a licensed professional counselor and marriage and family therapist whose 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,229 Speaker 2: story of surviving attempted murder and kidnapping is both heartbreaking. 13 00:00:44,770 --> 00:00:49,330 Speaker 2: but also incredibly inspiring. Through her faith and her training, 14 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:52,950 Speaker 2: she's transformed her pain into purpose. That is what you 15 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:56,220 Speaker 2: know I call a sacred scar. She helps others heal 16 00:00:56,260 --> 00:00:59,740 Speaker 2: from grief, loss, and trauma. And today she shares how 17 00:00:59,860 --> 00:01:03,180 Speaker 2: God meets us in our darkest moments and how we 18 00:01:03,220 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: can reclaim our lives after the deepest wounds. This story 19 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:10,340 Speaker 2: is not about a villain and a victim. Instead, it 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,770 Speaker 2: is about a woman who, despite being victimized, chose healing 21 00:01:14,930 --> 00:01:19,170 Speaker 2: and has emerged victorious. Welcome back to your Hope-Filled Perspective 22 00:01:19,190 --> 00:01:21,589 Speaker 2: with Dr. Michelle Bankson, where it's always our goal to 23 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:25,590 Speaker 2: restore hope, renew minds, and empower listeners to live in 24 00:01:25,630 --> 00:01:29,030 Speaker 2: your God-given identity. I'm so thankful when you choose to 25 00:01:29,069 --> 00:01:31,300 Speaker 2: spend a few minutes of your week with us, and 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,620 Speaker 2: especially so when you find the episodes encouraging enough to 27 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: share it with a friend who needs a biblically-based, hope-filled perspective. Today, 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,110 Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about how to move from 29 00:01:42,250 --> 00:01:46,990 Speaker 2: surviving to truly living again, even after the deepest hurts. 30 00:01:47,170 --> 00:01:50,310 Speaker 2: We'll dive into that right after this brief word from 31 00:01:50,380 --> 00:01:56,030 Speaker 2: our sponsor. We'll be right back. Sometimes the deepest wounds 32 00:01:56,190 --> 00:02:00,130 Speaker 2: in our lives come from the people we once trusted most. 33 00:02:00,370 --> 00:02:03,610 Speaker 2: Today on Your Hope-Filled Perspective, I'm joined by licensed professional 34 00:02:03,650 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: counselor and marriage and family therapist, Kimberly Haar, author of 35 00:02:07,780 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: Healing from Life's Deepest Hurts, Reclaiming Your Life After Grief, Loss, 36 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,690 Speaker 2: or Trauma. Kimberly's journey is one marked by understanding unthinkable 37 00:02:17,810 --> 00:02:21,780 Speaker 2: betrayal and violence. Her ex-husband attempted to take her life 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: and the life of the man she was dating. Yet, 39 00:02:25,139 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: through God's sustaining grace and her own trauma-informed healing process, 40 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,649 Speaker 2: Kimberly now helps others reclaim hope after devastation. So today 41 00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:38,930 Speaker 2: we'll explore how to move from surviving to truly living again, 42 00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:43,130 Speaker 2: even after the deepest hurts. I felt led to share 43 00:02:43,169 --> 00:02:47,970 Speaker 2: with you Ecclesiastes 3.1. 44 00:02:48,030 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: 45 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,579 Speaker 2: 46 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: 47 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,019 Speaker 2: 48 00:02:59,060 --> 00:03:01,550 Speaker 2: 49 00:03:01,950 --> 00:03:04,429 Speaker 2: 50 00:03:04,490 --> 00:03:07,750 Speaker 2: Our guest 51 00:03:07,790 --> 00:03:11,390 Speaker 2: today has experienced many of those such times in her 52 00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:15,180 Speaker 2: life until today. She'll share some of those. Kimberly Haar 53 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:19,579 Speaker 2: is a survivor of domestic violence, a licensed professional counselor, 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: licensed marriage and family therapist with nearly two decades of 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: experience helping others find healing and wholeness in life. Her 56 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:31,500 Speaker 2: therapy practice is located in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where she continues 57 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: to inspire hope and strength in those facing life's challenges. 58 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to the program, Kimberly. 59 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,500 Speaker 1: I am so honored to be here. Thank you for 60 00:03:40,540 --> 00:03:41,100 Speaker 1: having me. 61 00:03:41,590 --> 00:03:45,220 Speaker 2: I was honored. that you and your publisher sent me 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,170 Speaker 2: an early copy of the manuscript and allowed me to 63 00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:53,070 Speaker 2: endorse it. Kimberly, I know from reading about your story 64 00:03:53,110 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: that you were married for 23 years, but something went awry. 65 00:03:57,070 --> 00:03:59,020 Speaker 2: We share that with our listeners and viewers. 66 00:03:59,460 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: Yes, I was married for 23 years. And in those 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,270 Speaker 1: 23 years, we had those good seasons. We had hard seasons. 68 00:04:07,430 --> 00:04:09,790 Speaker 1: I like to say during my marriage, there was no 69 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:13,790 Speaker 1: domestic violence. And what the problem was, though, is my 70 00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: first husband had problems with pornography, chat rooms, and I 71 00:04:19,900 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: discovered he had been actually in an affair in 2013. 72 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: And I had known that he had betrayed me several 73 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,810 Speaker 1: times in our marriage. But because we had four young children, 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,469 Speaker 1: I made the decision I was going to stay until 75 00:04:35,529 --> 00:04:37,750 Speaker 1: my kids got old enough and prayed that the Lord 76 00:04:37,790 --> 00:04:41,030 Speaker 1: would really restore our home. But in 2013, when I 77 00:04:41,070 --> 00:04:44,210 Speaker 1: discovered that he had had an affair, I just knew 78 00:04:44,230 --> 00:04:46,990 Speaker 1: that I could no longer stay in this marriage. And 79 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:50,210 Speaker 1: so it was then that I made the hardest decision 80 00:04:50,250 --> 00:04:53,820 Speaker 1: I've ever made, and that was to file for divorce. 81 00:04:54,380 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: And we had four kids. And at the time, my 82 00:04:56,779 --> 00:04:59,820 Speaker 1: two youngest were 15. And so I just decided, okay, 83 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to stay just a mom for four years. 84 00:05:03,380 --> 00:05:05,740 Speaker 1: I'm not going to date anybody because I knew that 85 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,789 Speaker 1: there was healing from divorce. There was healing from betrayal. 86 00:05:09,089 --> 00:05:10,870 Speaker 1: And I just needed to focus on my family. 87 00:05:12,089 --> 00:05:17,610 Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that while there were definitely problems 88 00:05:17,830 --> 00:05:22,630 Speaker 2: and concerns in the marriage, that you didn't see something 89 00:05:22,650 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: so devastating until after. Share a little bit about what happened. 90 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: Yeah. When my ex-husband and I divorced, we actually had 91 00:05:33,060 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: a friendly divorce. And I had told him, you know what, 92 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,860 Speaker 1: during these four years, I'm going to just be single. 93 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:42,850 Speaker 1: You get your life right with the Lord. You figure 94 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:44,950 Speaker 1: out what's going on. And I think in the back 95 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:47,510 Speaker 1: of my mind, I always hoped that our family could 96 00:05:47,630 --> 00:05:50,530 Speaker 1: one day restore because I did love him. But in 2017, 97 00:05:50,510 --> 00:05:54,650 Speaker 1: it had been four years. My youngest children were going 98 00:05:54,670 --> 00:05:57,190 Speaker 1: to college. I was empty nesting and I knew that 99 00:05:57,230 --> 00:06:00,500 Speaker 1: the changes I needed hadn't been made. And so I 100 00:06:00,620 --> 00:06:04,020 Speaker 1: began dating in 2017. I woke up and I felt 101 00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: I really felt the Lord saying this is the year 102 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:08,140 Speaker 1: I was going to be married again. And I was 103 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: 50 years old. And I thought, where does a 50-year-old 104 00:06:11,140 --> 00:06:15,020 Speaker 1: woman go to put herself out there? And so I 105 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,170 Speaker 1: met a man on April Fool's Day. And right away, 106 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:23,090 Speaker 1: I just knew this was the man I was going 107 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:26,610 Speaker 1: to marry. And we dated each other for almost every 108 00:06:26,670 --> 00:06:29,710 Speaker 1: day for a month. And his name was Andrew. He's 109 00:06:29,750 --> 00:06:32,930 Speaker 1: an engineer. And it was kind of funny because Andrew 110 00:06:32,970 --> 00:06:36,770 Speaker 1: told me we had dated maybe two weeks. And he said... 111 00:06:37,110 --> 00:06:39,710 Speaker 1: I've asked Google how long you need to know somebody 112 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:43,140 Speaker 1: before you know you're in love. Because in his engineer brain, 113 00:06:43,180 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: he wanted to make sure he was being logical and 114 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:47,980 Speaker 1: it was like the rights, the wrongs. And he had said, 115 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: I want to marry you. And so we knew I 116 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:54,350 Speaker 1: had never been happier. And it had been about four 117 00:06:54,430 --> 00:06:57,390 Speaker 1: weeks and my ex-husband called me and he asked me 118 00:06:57,430 --> 00:06:59,790 Speaker 1: to stop by his home and have a conversation about 119 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: our adult children. That wasn't uncommon. We had done that 120 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: many times. I had no reason to think this time 121 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,940 Speaker 1: would be different. But when I got to his home, 122 00:07:08,180 --> 00:07:11,660 Speaker 1: the conversation became about he wanted us to be able 123 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:14,020 Speaker 1: to look at reconciling. He wanted me to give him 124 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,380 Speaker 1: another chance. And so I just said, I've moved on 125 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: and you need to as well. There is no going 126 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,050 Speaker 1: back for us. And he looked at me and he said, well, 127 00:07:24,170 --> 00:07:26,030 Speaker 1: I may just have to have a talk with that man. 128 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:29,110 Speaker 1: And I didn't know what he meant because he had 129 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,070 Speaker 1: never met him. I didn't even know he knew about him. 130 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:34,830 Speaker 1: But unbeknownst to me, he had been stalking me. So 131 00:07:34,870 --> 00:07:37,050 Speaker 1: he knew where this man was. He knew when I 132 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: was at his house. And so when I left my 133 00:07:39,980 --> 00:07:43,220 Speaker 1: husband's house that day, I actually, I went, I called 134 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: Andrew on the way home and I said, hey, can 135 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: I come talk to you? And honestly, I just wanted 136 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,500 Speaker 1: to warn him so he wouldn't get scared away. I 137 00:07:49,930 --> 00:07:52,630 Speaker 1: didn't know what my ex-husband had talked about. But so 138 00:07:52,650 --> 00:07:55,910 Speaker 1: I told Andrew and before I left that evening, I said, Andrew, 139 00:07:55,930 --> 00:07:57,710 Speaker 1: would you fight for me? And he said, well, of 140 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:00,350 Speaker 1: course I would. And when I asked him why, he said, 141 00:08:00,390 --> 00:08:03,450 Speaker 1: because you're worth it. And little did I know it 142 00:08:03,470 --> 00:08:06,750 Speaker 1: would be 24 hours within the next 24 hours. Andrew 143 00:08:06,790 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: wasn't just fighting for me, but he was fighting for 144 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,180 Speaker 1: his life. Because when I left his home, I went 145 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:14,660 Speaker 1: home to my house. I lived alone. And so I 146 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:17,660 Speaker 1: went upstairs and I always locked my house door. But 147 00:08:17,900 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: this night I was getting ready to go to bed 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: and something stirred in me. And it said, lock your 149 00:08:22,370 --> 00:08:24,810 Speaker 1: bedroom door. So I did. I got up. I went 150 00:08:24,850 --> 00:08:27,810 Speaker 1: to sleep. I was not scared. And at 2.30 in 151 00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:30,510 Speaker 1: the morning, I woke up to my bedroom door crashing 152 00:08:30,550 --> 00:08:34,449 Speaker 1: down off the hinges. My ex-husband was intoxicated. He had 153 00:08:34,470 --> 00:08:37,270 Speaker 1: a gun in his hand and proceeded for the next 154 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:40,430 Speaker 1: four hours to assault me and then kidnapped me and 155 00:08:40,450 --> 00:08:42,850 Speaker 1: took me to Andrew's house where he intended to kill him. 156 00:08:43,490 --> 00:08:49,350 Speaker 2: So when this all happened, what flashed through your mind? 157 00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:53,380 Speaker 2: I can only imagine because you didn't see, from what 158 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: you've said, you didn't see the violence prior to the divorce. 159 00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:01,179 Speaker 2: It had been an amicable divorce. You'd met before to 160 00:09:01,460 --> 00:09:06,170 Speaker 2: talk about your children together. How did you even process 161 00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:07,670 Speaker 2: what was happening? 162 00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:10,429 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it, I really credit a 163 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:13,270 Speaker 1: lot of it to my therapeutic background as a therapist 164 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: because I was almost like coaching myself through it. And 165 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:19,740 Speaker 1: the very first thing I remember, the very first thing 166 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,900 Speaker 1: I thought was I prayed just silently and I prayed, 167 00:09:22,940 --> 00:09:25,619 Speaker 1: dear God. Just keep me alive because my family is 168 00:09:25,660 --> 00:09:28,790 Speaker 1: going to need me. But from that moment on, I was, 169 00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:32,670 Speaker 1: you know, obviously there's the shock and the, you know, fight, flight, freeze. 170 00:09:32,929 --> 00:09:35,910 Speaker 1: But I would tell myself, pay attention to his words. 171 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Stay one step ahead. Stay calm. Because I knew that 172 00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:43,540 Speaker 1: if I started freaking out, it wasn't going to end well. 173 00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:45,660 Speaker 1: So I think that in the beginning, it just, it 174 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,699 Speaker 1: felt like a bad dream. And I wasn't waking up 175 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,500 Speaker 1: from it. It was, it was probably, well, it was, 176 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,210 Speaker 1: it was the scariest thing I've ever been through. 177 00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:57,570 Speaker 2: I'm sure. And so as that nightmare is unfolding and 178 00:09:57,870 --> 00:10:01,660 Speaker 2: you find yourself with your ex-husband. kidnapped and taken to 179 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:03,140 Speaker 2: Andrew's house, what happened? 180 00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:06,170 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on the way to Andrew's house because he 181 00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:09,100 Speaker 1: told me as punishment for ruining his life, he was 182 00:10:09,140 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: going to make me witness him murdering Andrew. So as 183 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:16,340 Speaker 1: we were driving there, I was honestly really praying over Andrew. 184 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know that my ex-husband knew where Andrew lived 185 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,230 Speaker 1: at that time. And so the closer we got, I 186 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:25,110 Speaker 1: was just praying the angels around him. I was like, Lord, 187 00:10:25,170 --> 00:10:27,450 Speaker 1: just protect him. I was praying he would have gotten 188 00:10:27,490 --> 00:10:29,230 Speaker 1: up early and gone to work that day because by 189 00:10:29,270 --> 00:10:31,709 Speaker 1: this time it was about 630 in the morning. And 190 00:10:31,929 --> 00:10:35,100 Speaker 1: when we got to Andrew's house, my ex-husband looked at 191 00:10:35,170 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: me and he said, now you go do whatever you 192 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,540 Speaker 1: need to do. And he left the keys in the 193 00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:43,460 Speaker 1: ignition of the vehicle. And he reached into the backseat 194 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,900 Speaker 1: of the vehicle. We had come in, got the gun, 195 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,020 Speaker 1: got extra bullets. And so I jumped into the driver's 196 00:10:50,059 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: seat to make a getaway, but not before I heard 197 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,610 Speaker 1: three gunshots. And so I knew that there was no 198 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,410 Speaker 1: way Andrew was going to survive this. I would later 199 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:02,910 Speaker 1: learn that Andrew had been shot 10 times. And it 200 00:11:03,010 --> 00:11:06,110 Speaker 1: was all through a lead glass window in the door. 201 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:08,990 Speaker 1: My ex-husband never made entry into the house. It was 202 00:11:09,130 --> 00:11:11,949 Speaker 1: all shooting through the lead glass window. But Andrew was 203 00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:15,150 Speaker 1: shot in the femoral artery. He was shot in the back, 204 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: in the arm. And so by all means, Andrew should 205 00:11:18,660 --> 00:11:19,140 Speaker 1: have died. 206 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,949 Speaker 2: Wow. So the way you say that gives us a 207 00:11:23,070 --> 00:11:27,359 Speaker 2: hint of what happened after that. So when you got 208 00:11:27,580 --> 00:11:31,979 Speaker 2: into the driver's seat, even though you heard the gunshots? 209 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,620 Speaker 2: Did you take off? Did you call the police? 210 00:11:34,660 --> 00:11:37,540 Speaker 3: Did you even have a phone to call the police? I, 211 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,790 Speaker 3: I had not, you know, I don't, I did not 212 00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:43,170 Speaker 3: have access to my phone, whether it was on the 213 00:11:43,210 --> 00:11:45,530 Speaker 3: other seat that never came to my mind. 214 00:11:45,550 --> 00:11:47,890 Speaker 1: I was just like, I've got to go find help. 215 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:50,770 Speaker 1: And so I drove and it ended up only being 216 00:11:50,809 --> 00:11:53,370 Speaker 1: about four blocks, but I took the long way because 217 00:11:53,429 --> 00:11:56,110 Speaker 1: I was just driving everywhere I could. And I saw 218 00:11:56,350 --> 00:11:58,230 Speaker 1: a super center that was open 24 hours. And so 219 00:11:58,250 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: I I parked the vehicle in the very front. I 220 00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:04,980 Speaker 1: ran inside the front door and I just screamed, somebody 221 00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: call 911. And what seemed like forever, I'm sure it 222 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: was only seconds, the cashiers were looking up at me. 223 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: And by this time, my face was unrecognizable. I mean, 224 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: I had been brutally attacked. And so when nobody was 225 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:21,250 Speaker 1: responding as quickly as I wanted them to, I looked 226 00:12:21,290 --> 00:12:23,390 Speaker 1: down in my hand and I had a cell phone 227 00:12:23,429 --> 00:12:26,510 Speaker 1: in my hand. but it wasn't mine. And so the 228 00:12:26,650 --> 00:12:28,990 Speaker 1: only thing I've been able to figure out, it came 229 00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:31,810 Speaker 1: from the vehicle that I came from. And I had 230 00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:34,219 Speaker 1: heard that if you dial 911, even if you don't 231 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,860 Speaker 1: know the password, that it will go through. And so 232 00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: it does. The good news is it does work. And 233 00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: so I called 911 and I just said, hey, you've 234 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,850 Speaker 1: got to get the police to Andrew's house. And I said, 235 00:12:46,929 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: but tell them to be careful. because my ex-husband had 236 00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:52,300 Speaker 1: said this day was not going to end up good. 237 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,709 Speaker 1: And so from that point, the police and the ambulances, 238 00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:59,750 Speaker 1: they were discharged and sent to Andrew's house. I had 239 00:12:59,790 --> 00:13:01,809 Speaker 1: a police and ambulance that were coming to the super 240 00:13:01,850 --> 00:13:04,530 Speaker 1: center for me. And so I was escorted to the 241 00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:07,339 Speaker 1: stock warehouse room so that the shoppers couldn't see me. 242 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: And I waited for a police and ambulance to come 243 00:13:10,179 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: for me, who later took me to the emergency room. 244 00:13:13,179 --> 00:13:14,500 Speaker 2: And what did the police find? 245 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:16,479 Speaker 1: You mean when they came and got me? 246 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:19,590 Speaker 2: Or when they showed up at Andrew's house. 247 00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:22,230 Speaker 1: When they showed up at Andrew's house, because we were 248 00:13:22,270 --> 00:13:24,890 Speaker 1: taken to two different hospitals. And because it was a 249 00:13:24,950 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: crime scene, Andrew was in the hospital under an assumed name. 250 00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:31,580 Speaker 1: So I couldn't find him. And I was in the 251 00:13:31,660 --> 00:13:36,020 Speaker 1: emergency room. The police escorted me out, and I got 252 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:39,850 Speaker 1: to the emergency room. And while I was there, Andrew, 253 00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:43,070 Speaker 1: one of his kids, his adult son, called my cell 254 00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:47,230 Speaker 1: phone and said, listen, we're sorry this happened. We wish 255 00:13:47,270 --> 00:13:50,590 Speaker 1: you the best, but we really think that you guys 256 00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:53,670 Speaker 1: should go your separate ways. And so in the emergency room, 257 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:57,860 Speaker 1: I was more devastated about losing Andrew than I was 258 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: about anything that had happened to me because it was here. 259 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: I honestly questioned, it's like, Lord, were you just dangling 260 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,620 Speaker 1: a carrot in front of my face? I've never been 261 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,710 Speaker 1: this happy. This man is the man I was going 262 00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:12,929 Speaker 1: to marry. And now he's taken away. And so I 263 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:18,179 Speaker 1: left the emergency room with just knowing that I wasn't 264 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: going to see Andrew again. And I stayed the first 265 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: few nights at my mom and dad's house, but I 266 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: knew that that wasn't a long-term solution. But I had 267 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: an uncle and aunt that lived in the same town 268 00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:29,820 Speaker 1: as me, and they offered me to stay in their 269 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,070 Speaker 1: home for the summer. And when I went to their house, 270 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,450 Speaker 1: they gave me a tour of the home so I'd 271 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:40,090 Speaker 1: know where light switches are. And I saw in their backyard... 272 00:14:39,950 --> 00:14:43,910 Speaker 1: They had this beautiful, huge, big pergola that had big 273 00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:46,670 Speaker 1: wood rafters. And there was two swings and a big 274 00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:50,630 Speaker 1: cement floor. And something told me that this is where 275 00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:52,770 Speaker 1: I was going to go every morning. And this was 276 00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:55,530 Speaker 1: going to become a very sacred ground for me. And 277 00:14:55,550 --> 00:14:58,250 Speaker 1: think of like Moses, when he took off his sandals 278 00:14:58,710 --> 00:15:00,570 Speaker 1: at the burning bush, he said, where I'm standing is 279 00:15:00,610 --> 00:15:04,370 Speaker 1: holy ground. This became my holy ground. And I would 280 00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:07,390 Speaker 1: not hear from Andrew for six weeks. But in those 281 00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:11,770 Speaker 1: six weeks, that's where my healing really began. And I 282 00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:14,070 Speaker 1: had to really get honest with the Lord and myself. 283 00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:18,500 Speaker 2: And I really want to unpack that healing journey because 284 00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:21,500 Speaker 2: I want our listeners and viewers to know that even 285 00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:27,060 Speaker 2: under the most dire circumstances, and yours certainly were, God 286 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: can and does still heal. But I have to ask, 287 00:15:30,820 --> 00:15:32,140 Speaker 2: what happened to your ex-husband? 288 00:15:32,590 --> 00:15:35,690 Speaker 1: My ex-husband was apprehended and he was sentenced to prison 289 00:15:35,710 --> 00:15:38,890 Speaker 1: for a very long time. I never saw him after 290 00:15:38,950 --> 00:15:41,490 Speaker 1: that day. I've never talked to him since that day. 291 00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:44,770 Speaker 1: And so he's no longer a part of my life. 292 00:15:45,130 --> 00:15:48,250 Speaker 1: And I do have adult children. We all heal in 293 00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:51,660 Speaker 1: our own ways. And so, you know, from that day forward, 294 00:15:52,260 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: I haven't had any contact with him. 295 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,260 Speaker 2: Speaking as one mental health professional to another, how do 296 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:02,700 Speaker 2: you get through something that traumatic? how do you even start? 297 00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:06,410 Speaker 2: Did you counsel yourself? Did you find another therapist? I 298 00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:09,010 Speaker 2: know that that area, your aunt and uncle's house and 299 00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:12,620 Speaker 2: that pergola was a vital part of your therapy, but I'm, 300 00:16:13,090 --> 00:16:15,750 Speaker 2: unpack that healing journey a bit. Yeah. 301 00:16:15,830 --> 00:16:17,780 Speaker 1: Well, one of my first calls was to my pastor. 302 00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:20,700 Speaker 1: And the second call, like a day and a half later, 303 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,180 Speaker 1: was to a Christian therapist because I know the value 304 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,739 Speaker 1: of therapy. And while a therapist wasn't going to heal me, 305 00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:30,270 Speaker 1: I wanted them to walk with me to make sure 306 00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:33,870 Speaker 1: I didn't get stuck. And so I would go to therapy. 307 00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: But when I was the first few days when I 308 00:16:36,390 --> 00:16:38,979 Speaker 1: was at the pergola, the very first morning that I 309 00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:41,220 Speaker 1: went out there, I wrapped myself in a big green 310 00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: blanket and I laid on the cement floor and I 311 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,500 Speaker 1: just wept. And I I did not know you could 312 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:52,260 Speaker 1: weep so much because it was like my body was groaning. 313 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: My body was crying. There was such a loss of, 314 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,980 Speaker 1: of so many things, including a loss of safety, a 315 00:16:58,020 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: loss of innocence, a lot just. And, and I remember 316 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,379 Speaker 1: praying and saying, Lord, I don't have any words. I said, 317 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: I have never felt this broken. And I feel like 318 00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:10,420 Speaker 1: I'm an empty shell. And I asked the Lord, I said, 319 00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:12,870 Speaker 1: you know, I know there's a scripture in Zephaniah that 320 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,510 Speaker 1: says you sing over us, you delight over us. And 321 00:17:15,550 --> 00:17:18,850 Speaker 1: I said, Lord, I am so empty. I can't even pray. 322 00:17:18,910 --> 00:17:21,770 Speaker 1: So I'm asking you, would you sing over me and 323 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:25,429 Speaker 1: breathe life back into my body? Because I felt so empty. 324 00:17:25,930 --> 00:17:29,270 Speaker 1: And so within the next week, I was putting praise 325 00:17:29,330 --> 00:17:32,580 Speaker 1: and worship music on, and I would just bathe myself. 326 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,699 Speaker 1: And I would bathe myself in those worship songs, and 327 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,300 Speaker 1: I let those become my prayers. And little by little, 328 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: I began singing those songs. And it I came to 329 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: the Lord with so many emotions, and I've always been 330 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:49,530 Speaker 1: a very honest prayer. And I told the Lord in 331 00:17:49,550 --> 00:17:52,090 Speaker 1: the beginning, of course, there's the why me? Why didn't 332 00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:56,190 Speaker 1: you stop this? Where were you? And I was frustrated. 333 00:17:56,270 --> 00:18:00,050 Speaker 1: At times I felt angry, but God never rebuked me 334 00:18:00,109 --> 00:18:02,790 Speaker 1: from any of my emotions. He said, it was like, 335 00:18:02,869 --> 00:18:05,020 Speaker 1: I would say, Lord, I am hurting so bad. And 336 00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: it was like, I could just sense him saying, I know, 337 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: and I'm here. And it was a very. 338 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,020 Speaker 1: It was such a holy time because I would... Well, 339 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,510 Speaker 1: in the beginning, I told the Lord, I trust you, Lord. 340 00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:20,610 Speaker 1: This is what you need to do, how you need 341 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:22,129 Speaker 1: to do it, when you need to do it, and 342 00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:25,810 Speaker 1: it'll be such a great testimony. And then I'd say, 343 00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:29,670 Speaker 1: and I trust you, Lord. And my pastor's wife took 344 00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:32,690 Speaker 1: me out for coffee one day, and I was getting 345 00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: ready to tell her how she should pray, when she 346 00:18:34,859 --> 00:18:37,340 Speaker 1: should pray. And she said, Kim, you can't make Andrew 347 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,890 Speaker 1: your idol. She said, a person... cannot take the place 348 00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:45,109 Speaker 1: that Jesus is meant to fill. And if your happiness 349 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:47,950 Speaker 1: is dependent on him, you're putting him in a place 350 00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:50,220 Speaker 1: that he doesn't belong. So I went back to the 351 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: pergola and I told the Lord, I said, Lord, I 352 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,100 Speaker 1: don't want to trust you. I said, I'm scared to 353 00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: trust you because what if you don't give me what 354 00:18:57,510 --> 00:19:00,340 Speaker 1: I want? And I said, but I'm asking you, I'm 355 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: choosing to trust you, though I don't feel it. And 356 00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: it began weeks of where I would just pray and 357 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:09,379 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, Lord. And I actually would get 358 00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:11,630 Speaker 1: up in the morning and I said, okay, Lord, as 359 00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:14,590 Speaker 1: a physical sign of my trust, I made sure nobody 360 00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:17,510 Speaker 1: was looking. And I said, I would play a song 361 00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:19,450 Speaker 1: that was called Dance With Me, A Lover of My 362 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,180 Speaker 1: Soul by Paul Wilbur. And I would put myself like 363 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:24,860 Speaker 1: in this dance waltz position and I would close my 364 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:28,340 Speaker 1: eyes because it talked about God just pursuing us and 365 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: loving us. And I would do this waltz with my 366 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: eyes closed and I would envision myself being held in 367 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: the arms of Jesus. And at the very end of it, 368 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:38,830 Speaker 1: I would actually bow my head and I would curtsy. 369 00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:41,630 Speaker 1: And then I'd go about listening to my other music 370 00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:44,250 Speaker 1: and praying and journaling. But that is always how I 371 00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:46,310 Speaker 1: started my day. And it was like, Lord, this is 372 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:48,950 Speaker 1: my sacrifice of praise because I don't want to trust you. 373 00:19:48,990 --> 00:19:51,420 Speaker 1: But I really I am. declaring, I will trust you. 374 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 2: Sacrifice of praise. Friends, we're going to take a real 375 00:19:55,340 --> 00:19:57,740 Speaker 2: brief break for a word from our sponsor, but I 376 00:19:57,780 --> 00:20:00,020 Speaker 2: want you to stick with us because when we return, 377 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,900 Speaker 2: we'll continue our conversation about how to move from surviving 378 00:20:04,109 --> 00:20:13,340 Speaker 2: to truly living again. We'll be right back. Kimberly, how 379 00:20:13,859 --> 00:20:17,060 Speaker 2: can one keep from falling into the pit of the 380 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,699 Speaker 2: victim mentality once we've been hurt? Because I heard you 381 00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:24,030 Speaker 2: say before the break that you didn't want to fall 382 00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:27,889 Speaker 2: into that well of self-pity. And yet when we've gone 383 00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:33,350 Speaker 2: through such traumatic experiences so often, that's where people go. 384 00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:36,729 Speaker 1: Well, and it would have been easy because nobody would 385 00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:40,660 Speaker 1: have blamed me. There was like good guy, bad guy, hurt, not. 386 00:20:40,869 --> 00:20:44,130 Speaker 1: But I maybe because I had walked with so many 387 00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:47,530 Speaker 1: people and held so many stories of hurt with my 388 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,190 Speaker 1: clients for 20 years, I knew from the very beginning 389 00:20:51,210 --> 00:20:53,670 Speaker 1: I was going to do whatever I had to to heal. 390 00:20:54,050 --> 00:20:56,710 Speaker 1: And when you ask, how do you not get into that? 391 00:20:56,730 --> 00:20:58,419 Speaker 1: I think the very first thing is you've got to 392 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: make a decision. that that's not the route you're going 393 00:21:01,220 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: to go. You know, I would go in those first 394 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: few weeks, I would have to go downtown to the 395 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,020 Speaker 1: victim witness center. And because it was a crime and 396 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,150 Speaker 1: they would take my statements and there was a piece 397 00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:15,210 Speaker 1: of paper I would have to sign in on. And 398 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:17,770 Speaker 1: there was a red arrow that said victim sign here. 399 00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:21,530 Speaker 1: And when I saw that something inside me just reared 400 00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:25,350 Speaker 1: up and I was like, I will not be a victim. 401 00:21:25,609 --> 00:21:28,300 Speaker 1: I was victimized. And on that day, I was a victim. 402 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,380 Speaker 1: But from that point on, I had been victimized, but 403 00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: I was not going to be a victim. And sitting 404 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: in the emergency room within hours of everything happening, it 405 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: was almost a year later, the detective who had been 406 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,580 Speaker 1: assigned to my case, I talked to her and she said, Kim, 407 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: do you remember... what you told me in that emergency room, 408 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: all bloody faced. And I said, no, I don't. And 409 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: she said, you looked at me and you said, I 410 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,090 Speaker 1: will not let this experience go to waste. I'm going 411 00:21:56,109 --> 00:21:58,409 Speaker 1: to be a better therapist because of it. Because I 412 00:21:58,490 --> 00:22:00,670 Speaker 1: knew I could have a deeper empathy than I'd ever 413 00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,669 Speaker 1: had before. My daughter asked me, she says, mom, do 414 00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:06,030 Speaker 1: you remember what you told me in the emergency room? 415 00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:08,500 Speaker 1: And I said, no, I don't. She said, mom, you 416 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: looked at me and you said, promise me you won't 417 00:22:10,619 --> 00:22:13,500 Speaker 1: let this make you bitter. And there was a part 418 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,140 Speaker 1: of me that I was going to do. I didn't 419 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: know how I was going to heal, but I knew 420 00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:21,490 Speaker 1: I was going to do whatever it took until I 421 00:22:21,970 --> 00:22:24,790 Speaker 1: felt like I was in a healed place. And even 422 00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:27,429 Speaker 1: the morning after, that right after the four hours of 423 00:22:27,470 --> 00:22:31,450 Speaker 1: the assault, my ex-husband, the intoxication was wearing off and 424 00:22:31,470 --> 00:22:34,060 Speaker 1: he looked down at me and I think he realized 425 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,020 Speaker 1: the enormity of what he had done. And he said, 426 00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: tell me the truth. I've gone too far. We could 427 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,369 Speaker 1: never go back and you could never forgive me. And 428 00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:45,469 Speaker 1: in that moment, a part of me was like, oh, 429 00:22:45,570 --> 00:22:47,169 Speaker 1: you know, placate him. You just want to get out 430 00:22:47,210 --> 00:22:49,490 Speaker 1: of here safe. And I thought, no, I'm not going 431 00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:51,230 Speaker 1: to do that. And so I looked at him and 432 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: I called him by name. And I said, you're right. 433 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:56,700 Speaker 1: You have gone too far. There is no going back. 434 00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: I said, but I want you to know I will 435 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,940 Speaker 1: forgive you. And I declared, I kept declaring these things 436 00:23:03,030 --> 00:23:05,530 Speaker 1: over myself without even realizing it. Now, I did not 437 00:23:05,609 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: forgive him that day. although I prayed for him that 438 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,830 Speaker 1: night when he was in jail. I had to work 439 00:23:10,869 --> 00:23:13,890 Speaker 1: through that, but I knew that I will be forgiving. 440 00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:17,350 Speaker 1: I will be joyful. This is not going to be 441 00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:20,250 Speaker 1: the end of my story because the devil will not 442 00:23:20,290 --> 00:23:21,190 Speaker 1: have the last word. 443 00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:26,650 Speaker 2: What I'm hearing from you is so resonant with what 444 00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:30,390 Speaker 2: we talk about so often on this podcast, and that 445 00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:32,450 Speaker 2: is that our mindset matters. 446 00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:33,210 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 447 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,850 Speaker 2: And your mindset was, I will not be a victim. 448 00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:40,530 Speaker 2: Good will come out of this. God will use this 449 00:23:40,609 --> 00:23:44,410 Speaker 2: pain to help other people. I'm really curious if you 450 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: could go back and talk to yourself right after your trauma. 451 00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: What would you say? 452 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: Oh, well, and let me maybe clarify too, because even 453 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,100 Speaker 1: though I declared all that over me, that doesn't mean 454 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,100 Speaker 1: I wasn't falling apart at times. Healing is not linear. 455 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,850 Speaker 1: So I was weeping. I'd have good days and I'd 456 00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:03,629 Speaker 1: had bad days. So I don't want to give the 457 00:24:03,670 --> 00:24:06,510 Speaker 1: impression that I just said, okay, life will be great. 458 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:09,950 Speaker 1: If I could go back, I would actually go wrap 459 00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:13,129 Speaker 1: myself in a green blanket with her. with that younger 460 00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: part of me laying on that cement. And I would 461 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,180 Speaker 1: let her know that she's stronger than she thinks. And 462 00:24:19,420 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: really just love her, but be with her in that moment. 463 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,030 Speaker 1: And I think maybe give the gift of presence saying, okay, 464 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:29,449 Speaker 1: you will get through this. You don't see how, you 465 00:24:29,490 --> 00:24:31,910 Speaker 1: don't see when, but you will get through this. 466 00:24:32,290 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 2: Did your relationship with God change through all of this? 467 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:39,260 Speaker 1: I think that I am not, I would not want 468 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:42,620 Speaker 1: what happened to happen again. But man, the gifts that 469 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: came out of that, just my relationship with the Lord, 470 00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:49,190 Speaker 1: I was I accepted Jesus in my heart when I 471 00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:52,070 Speaker 1: was five years old and I never walked away. So 472 00:24:52,270 --> 00:24:55,050 Speaker 1: I was raised in a Christian home and I love 473 00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:57,550 Speaker 1: the Lord. There was never a question of that. I 474 00:24:57,609 --> 00:25:01,540 Speaker 1: never walked away from him. But during that time, there 475 00:25:01,619 --> 00:25:06,500 Speaker 1: was such a, God just drew so close to me, 476 00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:09,100 Speaker 1: but it was me drawing close to him because God 477 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,540 Speaker 1: never went anywhere. It was me that did. And so 478 00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:16,460 Speaker 1: in that, I would, I just came to where I 479 00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:20,170 Speaker 1: felt like the Lord and I were like this. And 480 00:25:20,369 --> 00:25:23,449 Speaker 1: people say, where's God when bad things happen? Sometimes we 481 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:27,090 Speaker 1: say it as an accusation, like God wasn't there. But really, 482 00:25:27,109 --> 00:25:29,260 Speaker 1: I love to say, ask the Lord where he was 483 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,659 Speaker 1: because he was there. And the morning I was assaulted, 484 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: the assaulting was over. I was laying on my bed, 485 00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: and I remember sensing a presence in the room that 486 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,770 Speaker 1: I hadn't sensed before because I was just not paying attention. 487 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:45,209 Speaker 1: But there was a sad presence in the room, but 488 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: I knew it was the presence of the Lord. And 489 00:25:47,660 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: in that moment, fear left me. I didn't know if 490 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,340 Speaker 1: I was going to live or die. But in that moment, 491 00:25:52,530 --> 00:25:56,090 Speaker 1: I knew I would not have died alone. It was 492 00:25:56,109 --> 00:25:59,590 Speaker 1: Psalm 23, come alive. It said, yea, though I walk 493 00:25:59,609 --> 00:26:02,310 Speaker 1: through the valley of the shadow of death, you're with me. 494 00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:04,590 Speaker 1: And so many people think, well, we shouldn't walk through 495 00:26:04,609 --> 00:26:07,090 Speaker 1: any valleys. But the Bible says we're going to walk 496 00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:10,810 Speaker 1: through the valley of the shadow of death. The promise 497 00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:13,730 Speaker 1: is he's not going to leave us. So My relationship 498 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:17,530 Speaker 1: with the Lord, it really, it got deeper than it 499 00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: had ever been. In fact, it was after that six weeks, actually, 500 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: Andrew did contact me. And this ties into my relationship 501 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,350 Speaker 1: with the Lord. But he contacted me by Facebook Messenger 502 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:32,970 Speaker 1: because his kids had taken my phone number out of 503 00:26:33,010 --> 00:26:36,859 Speaker 1: his phone. I've never been so thankful for Facebook Messenger. 504 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,980 Speaker 1: And all it said is, hey, I'm alive. And so 505 00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:42,370 Speaker 1: how do you respond to that? You know, it's like, yippee. 506 00:26:43,030 --> 00:26:45,970 Speaker 1: And he was telling him, I'm so sorry. I didn't 507 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:48,470 Speaker 1: tell my ex-husband where you lived. And I said, can 508 00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:50,950 Speaker 1: I come see you? And he said, no. He said 509 00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:53,590 Speaker 1: he was going back into the hospital for another surgery. 510 00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: His wounds were infected. And he said he would contact 511 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,220 Speaker 1: me after all that was over. And he ended his 512 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: conversation on Facebook by saying, take care. And I thought, 513 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: what does that mean? You know, does that mean I 514 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,659 Speaker 1: wish you well? And so I waited and it was 515 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: about four or five days later, I got another message 516 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: that said, hey, a visit would be nice. And so, 517 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,220 Speaker 1: but then he told me to sneak around his adult 518 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,340 Speaker 1: children at the hospital. So, cause I'd only met one 519 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: of them. So I'm sneaking around his adult children and 520 00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: I walked into his hospital room and I looked at 521 00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:28,010 Speaker 1: him and I said, Andrew, where does this leave us? 522 00:27:28,990 --> 00:27:30,970 Speaker 1: And he said, I don't know. He said, I've read 523 00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:33,500 Speaker 1: the felony counts against you. He goes, I know what 524 00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:36,020 Speaker 1: happened to you and you're really going to be messed up. 525 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: He said, I know what happened to me and I'm 526 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: really going to be messed up. And something came over 527 00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:43,990 Speaker 1: me and I shook my finger in his face. And 528 00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:46,830 Speaker 1: I said, Andrew Hart, you will never meet another woman 529 00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:49,990 Speaker 1: like me. And four weeks later, we were engaged. Four 530 00:27:50,050 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: months later, we were married. And this is eight years ago. 531 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:55,590 Speaker 1: But on my wedding day, a lot of times we 532 00:27:55,609 --> 00:27:57,770 Speaker 1: go through hard things and that's when we press in. 533 00:27:58,050 --> 00:28:01,449 Speaker 1: That's when we're like, Lord, we're there. We're reading our Bible. 534 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:04,850 Speaker 1: We're praying and we're really putting our relationship with the 535 00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:08,210 Speaker 1: Lord as a priority. But then good times come and 536 00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:10,609 Speaker 1: we let it slide. And it's like, okay, God, I 537 00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: got it from here. And we really just kind of 538 00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: let our spiritual walks get lukewarm. And so on my 539 00:28:17,820 --> 00:28:20,850 Speaker 1: wedding day, I got up at six o'clock in the morning. 540 00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:22,730 Speaker 1: I was no longer at my uncle and aunt's house. 541 00:28:22,850 --> 00:28:24,450 Speaker 1: I had moved into the home we were going to live. 542 00:28:24,910 --> 00:28:27,420 Speaker 1: And I got in my car and I drove back 543 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,750 Speaker 1: to my uncle and aunt's house. I called them and 544 00:28:29,770 --> 00:28:31,430 Speaker 1: I said, if you hear a noise in the backyard, 545 00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:33,990 Speaker 1: don't call the police. It's just me. I said, please 546 00:28:34,030 --> 00:28:37,890 Speaker 1: don't look. Please close the curtains. But I went there 547 00:28:37,930 --> 00:28:40,670 Speaker 1: because I knew I had an appointment to keep. And 548 00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: my wedding day morning, I got my playlist on my phone. 549 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,420 Speaker 1: I played the song Dance With Me, O Lover of 550 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,980 Speaker 1: My Soul. I closed my eyes and I prayed and 551 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: asked the Lord, help me to always keep you as 552 00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: my first love. I want to honor you as the 553 00:28:55,310 --> 00:28:58,470 Speaker 1: first thing this day. And then my wedding day ended 554 00:28:58,530 --> 00:29:01,090 Speaker 1: up in the arms of my husband dancing at our wedding. 555 00:29:01,290 --> 00:29:04,780 Speaker 1: So my relationship with the Lord, there's nothing I would 556 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: trade for that. 557 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: You mentioned before that you were willing to forgive. your ex-husband, 558 00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:15,030 Speaker 2: and we both know that forgiveness plays a large role 559 00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:19,590 Speaker 2: in healing. Healing is next to impossible when we carry bitterness, resentment, 560 00:29:19,690 --> 00:29:24,210 Speaker 2: and unforgiveness. What and who were the people that you 561 00:29:24,260 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: had to forgive that surprised you? 562 00:29:26,540 --> 00:29:26,620 Speaker 5: Yeah. 563 00:29:27,580 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: I think, of course, everybody would think, well, you have 564 00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: to forgive your ex-husband. And I did. He was still 565 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,290 Speaker 1: the father of my children. And I still, there was 566 00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:39,190 Speaker 1: a love there for who he was and our good 567 00:29:39,230 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: times together. The hardest person to forgive was myself. because 568 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,870 Speaker 1: especially going back to my divorce, what happens is when 569 00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:50,170 Speaker 1: you go through those traumatic things, the devil wants to 570 00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:53,750 Speaker 1: come in and he wants to accuse you and he 571 00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:56,850 Speaker 1: wants to wrap you in shame. And I told myself 572 00:29:56,890 --> 00:30:00,010 Speaker 1: the day I got a divorce that I was defective, disqualified, 573 00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:03,310 Speaker 1: damaged goods. God could never use me. I told myself 574 00:30:03,370 --> 00:30:06,540 Speaker 1: I was a failure when I divorced, that I'd failed God, 575 00:30:06,620 --> 00:30:09,380 Speaker 1: failed myself, failed my kids. And so I had to 576 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,420 Speaker 1: go back and one is really, rewrite those beliefs because 577 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: I hadn't failed. But I told myself and the enemy 578 00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:22,220 Speaker 1: told me I had. So working through forgiving myself was 579 00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,570 Speaker 1: probably the hardest I had to do. You know, I did. 580 00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:28,770 Speaker 1: I chose to forgive my ex-husband. I chose to forgive 581 00:30:28,830 --> 00:30:30,810 Speaker 1: the woman that he had had an affair with. That 582 00:30:30,910 --> 00:30:33,910 Speaker 1: one wasn't an easy one either, because for me, I 583 00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:36,270 Speaker 1: was actually sitting in church one day and I felt 584 00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:38,930 Speaker 1: the Lord saying, you need to forgive her. And I 585 00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:42,910 Speaker 1: was like, excuse me, get thee behind me, Satan. Because 586 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: I was like, Lord, I didn't do anything. And the Lord, really, 587 00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: I felt him asking me, why could you forgive your husband, ex-husband? 588 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,700 Speaker 1: And I said, because I loved him. And the Lord said, 589 00:30:53,740 --> 00:30:57,130 Speaker 1: and I love her. And it was like, yes, Lord. 590 00:30:57,430 --> 00:31:00,310 Speaker 1: So that was a process of having to really walk 591 00:31:00,370 --> 00:31:03,950 Speaker 1: through forgiveness because I've come to learn that you can 592 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,300 Speaker 1: heal without forgiveness, but you can't be whole. You know, 593 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,780 Speaker 1: because you look at people in the world that hold 594 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,479 Speaker 1: unforgiveness and they can say, no, I'm doing great. But 595 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: to really reach that presence of saying, you know what, 596 00:31:16,340 --> 00:31:19,020 Speaker 1: I'm whole. That you can't do without forgiveness. 597 00:31:19,650 --> 00:31:21,550 Speaker 2: Friends, we're going to take a real short break, but 598 00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:24,030 Speaker 2: when we come back, we'll be wrapping up the episode 599 00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:26,380 Speaker 2: and you know, I'm going to ask Kimberly to share 600 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,500 Speaker 2: her hope-filled perspective through this. We'll be right back. Kimberly, 601 00:31:31,540 --> 00:31:33,740 Speaker 2: as we get close to wrapping up this episode, I 602 00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 2: just wonder if you would share from your professional perspective, 603 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: what's one of the biggest misperceptions that you see that 604 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: people have about healing? 605 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,310 Speaker 1: I think one of the misperceptions is that it's once 606 00:31:46,350 --> 00:31:49,930 Speaker 1: and done. that that is all linear. You go from 607 00:31:50,010 --> 00:31:53,250 Speaker 1: this stage to this stage to this stage. And so 608 00:31:53,390 --> 00:31:56,450 Speaker 1: if they have hard days, they say, well, I guess 609 00:31:56,650 --> 00:32:00,060 Speaker 1: I'm not healing. And so it's really in my, what 610 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: I've just learned through my profession is that healing isn't linear, 611 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,030 Speaker 1: is very messy. You may have three great days and 612 00:32:08,050 --> 00:32:10,430 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you are knocked down and 613 00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:12,690 Speaker 1: you're like, oh my gosh, now I'm back to what 614 00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: I feel like is the beginning. And so it's really 615 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:20,740 Speaker 1: not based on our feelings because our feelings, they change. 616 00:32:21,290 --> 00:32:25,380 Speaker 1: our feelings change. I think also professionally is that we 617 00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:28,260 Speaker 1: feel that we are just alone and that we're the 618 00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: only ones that are going through things. And again, those 619 00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:32,820 Speaker 1: are lies of the devil because he wants us to 620 00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:35,380 Speaker 1: isolate when we go through these hard things so that 621 00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: we can partner with what he says. Like life will 622 00:32:38,740 --> 00:32:41,500 Speaker 1: never get better. God doesn't love you. And so that's 623 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: so important of why we have wise, good, godly community. 624 00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:47,810 Speaker 1: So I think that that those are that's really why 625 00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:49,890 Speaker 1: I decided to write my book, because it was a 626 00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:53,490 Speaker 1: really tough decision. Being a therapist, we're used to holding 627 00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:55,690 Speaker 1: people's stories. We don't tell our stories. 628 00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:56,090 Speaker 4: Right. 629 00:32:56,450 --> 00:33:00,230 Speaker 1: But I wanted to, it's not dropping the mask. I 630 00:33:00,270 --> 00:33:03,050 Speaker 1: wanted to pull back the curtain and say, yeah, we 631 00:33:03,310 --> 00:33:06,210 Speaker 1: all go through hard things and give the hope that said, 632 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:09,670 Speaker 1: you know what? If I can heal, you can heal too. 633 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: What response do you have for people who ask, why 634 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 2: does God allow bad things to happen? Or even where 635 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:20,660 Speaker 2: is God when bad things happen? 636 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,390 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that the why does 637 00:33:24,430 --> 00:33:27,150 Speaker 1: God allow things to happen? First of all, I don't 638 00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:29,910 Speaker 1: think any of us are ever going to have the 639 00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:33,540 Speaker 1: one answer to that because God's thoughts are higher than ours. 640 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: His ways are higher than ours. I do know that 641 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,490 Speaker 1: God gave humankind. He gave us free will. And in 642 00:33:40,570 --> 00:33:43,570 Speaker 1: my instance, my ex-husband had free will. But you know what? 643 00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:46,630 Speaker 1: Where was God? Man, God was there in that voice 644 00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:48,750 Speaker 1: that whispered to me at night, hey, get up and 645 00:33:48,790 --> 00:33:51,150 Speaker 1: lock your bedroom door. Because I really believe had I 646 00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:53,710 Speaker 1: not locked my bedroom door, I really believe I would 647 00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:56,730 Speaker 1: have been killed. God shows up, maybe not in the 648 00:33:56,980 --> 00:34:00,060 Speaker 1: ways we expect him to, but God shows up in 649 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: other people. He shows up in favor. He shows up. 650 00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:05,860 Speaker 1: So it's really taking our expectations, saying, God, you didn't 651 00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: show up. And instead saying, God, can you show me 652 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,370 Speaker 1: where you were? In fact, I recently, my doctor, she retired. 653 00:34:12,390 --> 00:34:14,859 Speaker 1: And I told her, I said, listen, I just want 654 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,620 Speaker 1: you to know something. In those early days, you were 655 00:34:17,660 --> 00:34:20,900 Speaker 1: Jesus with skin on for me. You made me feel safe. 656 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: Where was Jesus in all this? You know what? He 657 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,490 Speaker 1: was there in the hands of my doctor. He was 658 00:34:25,570 --> 00:34:28,110 Speaker 1: in my friends that made me meals. He gave me 659 00:34:28,170 --> 00:34:31,549 Speaker 1: favor at work. So God is there. We just may 660 00:34:31,590 --> 00:34:32,190 Speaker 1: not see it. 661 00:34:32,630 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: And you have used your experience correctly. so beautifully to 662 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 2: encourage others. What would you say to someone who feels 663 00:34:41,660 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 2: like their story is too broken for God to redeem? 664 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,850 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love to tell people that God is in 665 00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:53,109 Speaker 1: the restoration business. There is no story. That is too 666 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,740 Speaker 1: far gone. There is nothing he cannot redeem because that's 667 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,899 Speaker 1: what God's specialty is, is bringing beauty from ashes. And 668 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,510 Speaker 1: I think of, in my particular story, it sounded like 669 00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:09,170 Speaker 1: Cinderella in the beginning, but then it felt like Humpty 670 00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,610 Speaker 1: Dumpty because it's like, I fell off the wall and 671 00:35:11,770 --> 00:35:13,870 Speaker 1: all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't 672 00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:16,210 Speaker 1: put me back together again. But then I ran to 673 00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: the king of kings. And when we run to... the Lord. 674 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,370 Speaker 1: When we run to him, not away from him, there is, 675 00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:26,930 Speaker 1: I just say, just wait and watch and see what 676 00:35:27,010 --> 00:35:29,790 Speaker 1: God can do because what he does for one, he 677 00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:30,870 Speaker 1: will do for everyone. 678 00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:34,930 Speaker 2: As we are wrapping up this episode, if a listener 679 00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 2: or viewer is resonating with our conversation today in some way, 680 00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:41,500 Speaker 2: what hope-filled perspective do you want to leave them with? 681 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: I think that, in fact, my counseling office is called 682 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: There's Hope. I think that First of all, in hope, 683 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:53,620 Speaker 1: hope is what connects our faith. And in hope, it's 684 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:57,739 Speaker 1: like whether it is looking at someone that's gone before us, 685 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: whether it's like get a scripture to hold on to. 686 00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: Talk to somebody that's been a little bit farther down 687 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,549 Speaker 1: the road than you. And just because you don't see 688 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,910 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it can't happen. And so holding on 689 00:36:10,969 --> 00:36:14,290 Speaker 1: to God is the author of hope, and he's not 690 00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:15,069 Speaker 1: going to let you down. 691 00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:18,469 Speaker 2: Friends, I hope you hear that. You may not be 692 00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:23,530 Speaker 2: going through a situation like Kimberly's, and we hope you don't. 693 00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:26,490 Speaker 2: But as she mentioned, and as I've talked about so 694 00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 2: often on this podcast, Scripture does tell us we will 695 00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:34,500 Speaker 2: go through trials and trouble. But what she's telling us, 696 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,300 Speaker 2: reminding us, is the truth that when we go through 697 00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:43,460 Speaker 2: those valleys, those troubling waters, we don't go through them alone. Kimberly, 698 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,109 Speaker 2: I think I prayed before you and I started this 699 00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:51,029 Speaker 2: recording that I'm not thankful that you went through such 700 00:36:51,070 --> 00:36:55,969 Speaker 2: a traumatic experience, but I am grateful and thankful that 701 00:36:56,090 --> 00:36:59,609 Speaker 2: God saw you through, that he's brought healing, and as 702 00:36:59,660 --> 00:37:03,419 Speaker 2: a result, you're encouraging others. So thank you for being 703 00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 2: on the podcast, for sharing so vulnerably, for writing your book. 704 00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:11,609 Speaker 2: And friends, we'll put the information about... Kimberly and her 705 00:37:11,650 --> 00:37:16,009 Speaker 2: book in our show notes that you can find at drmichelleb.com. Friends, 706 00:37:16,050 --> 00:37:18,810 Speaker 2: I hope that there was something in today's episode that 707 00:37:18,850 --> 00:37:23,430 Speaker 2: encouraged you, that inspired you, that perhaps has motivated you 708 00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:27,190 Speaker 2: to look in a different lens at your current situation. 709 00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:29,670 Speaker 2: Or maybe you have a friend who's going through a 710 00:37:29,730 --> 00:37:33,070 Speaker 2: particularly difficult time right now. If so, would you consider 711 00:37:33,110 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 2: sharing this episode for them to have a biblically-based hope 712 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,969 Speaker 2: filled perspective and to find some hope in how Kimberly 713 00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:44,310 Speaker 2: has healed from such a difficult trial. It's been a 714 00:37:44,430 --> 00:37:47,510 Speaker 2: pleasure to be with you, Kimberly, and to be with you, friends. 715 00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:50,049 Speaker 2: I look forward to being with you again next week 716 00:37:50,090 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 2: for another episode of Your Hope-Filled Perspective. But in the meantime, 717 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 2: you know it's my prayer for you that you have 718 00:37:56,860 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 2: a hope-filled week. 719 00:37:59,670 --> 00:38:03,930 Speaker 5: Your ragged and torn past may be the key to 720 00:38:03,989 --> 00:38:09,029 Speaker 5: God's future for you. We all endure trials, pain, and 721 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:14,569 Speaker 5: hardship in this life. Too often we believe these experiences 722 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,580 Speaker 5: disqualify us from being useful to God. But the truth is, 723 00:38:19,940 --> 00:38:24,980 Speaker 5: your past pain and brokenness serve as preparation for what 724 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:30,029 Speaker 5: God wants to do in and through you. if you 725 00:38:30,070 --> 00:38:36,310 Speaker 5: will surrender to and trust him. In Sacred Scars, neuropsychologist 726 00:38:36,450 --> 00:38:41,850 Speaker 5: and fellow sufferer, Dr. Michelle Bankson helps you understand the 727 00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:46,270 Speaker 5: suffering from a biblical perspective, discover how the trials of 728 00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:50,310 Speaker 5: your life serve a purpose, reflect on the healing that 729 00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:54,710 Speaker 5: God has accomplished, and comfort others with the comfort God 730 00:38:54,790 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 5: has given you. Just as Jesus' scars didn't disappear after 731 00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:04,630 Speaker 5: his resurrection and confirmed that he was who he said 732 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:07,810 Speaker 5: he was and that he did what he said he'd do, 733 00:39:08,590 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 5: our emotional or physical scars tell our story and lend 734 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 5: credence to our testimony of God's love and power. If 735 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 5: you are ready to turn your past pain into present 736 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,590 Speaker 5: comfort and future hope, let Dr. Bankson be your compassionate guide. 737 00:39:28,660 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 5: Jill Savage, host of the No More Perfect podcast and 738 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 5: author of No More Perfect Marriages, had this to say 739 00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:41,670 Speaker 5: about sacred scars. While we wish for a pain-free life, 740 00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:45,670 Speaker 5: the dark seasons are where God invites us into the 741 00:39:45,730 --> 00:39:49,010 Speaker 5: most growth. In the pages of this book, you will 742 00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:53,030 Speaker 5: come to understand how God uses pain in powerful ways. 743 00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:57,750 Speaker 5: If you're human, you need this book. Pick up a 744 00:39:57,810 --> 00:40:02,310 Speaker 5: copy of Sacred Scars wherever books are sold and watch 745 00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:05,410 Speaker 5: God turn your pain into purpose. 746 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,180 Speaker 4: Thank you for joining Dr. Bankston for your hope-filled perspective. 747 00:40:13,739 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 4: We hope you were encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and 748 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 4: and biblical truths. If you enjoyed today's conversation, why don't 749 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,819 Speaker 4: you take a moment right now, open up your podcast app, 750 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 4: and look for the subscribe button right next to our 751 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,980 Speaker 4: podcast profile image. We think this podcast is best enjoyed 752 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,569 Speaker 4: with friends, so tell a friend and click share in 753 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,509 Speaker 4: your podcast app and send a friend our link to 754 00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:39,690 Speaker 4: share hope with them. If you have a comment, question, 755 00:40:39,969 --> 00:40:42,529 Speaker 4: or suggest a topic for a future show, reach out 756 00:40:42,610 --> 00:40:47,270 Speaker 4: to our staff at info at hopeprevails.org. For additional resources, 757 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 4: information about Dr. Bankson's books or free downloads, or to 758 00:40:51,820 --> 00:40:57,100 Speaker 4: contact her to speak at your next event, please visit drmichelleb.com. 759 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,859 Speaker 4: Until next time, may you have a hope-filled week. 760 00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:06,330 Speaker 2: I'd like to take just a second to thank the 761 00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:09,310 Speaker 2: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 762 00:41:09,350 --> 00:41:13,170 Speaker 2: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens 763 00:41:13,230 --> 00:41:16,810 Speaker 2: of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows 764 00:41:16,850 --> 00:41:19,819 Speaker 2: about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.