1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your host, 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 2: Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry, 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Becket Cook Show. 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: star rating. 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 3: Hey, guys, welcome to the show. I have a special 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 3: guest today, Denny Burke. He's been on the show before, 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 3: and we're gonna be talking about a viral video that's 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 3: going around from the Joe Rogan podcast podcast and his 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: Joe Rogan's guest is this guy named James Tallerico who 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: is a Texas Democrat, a US Senate candidate, and in 14 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 3: this viral video, he claims that the Bible is pro choice. 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 3: It's so insane. And the reason I'm having Denny Burke 16 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: on is because he responded to the video with a 17 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: very long tweet and he also wrote an article about 18 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: this guy in World magazine I think last summer. So 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 3: if you don't remember Denny Burke. 20 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: He is. 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: He serves as a professor of Biblical studies at the 22 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and as the president of the 23 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. He also serves as 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 3: one of the teaching pastors at Kenwood Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky. 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: And he's written many books. But first award from our sponsor, 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: please welcome Denny Burke. 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for having me. 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: Man. 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 4: I'm glad to be here. 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 3: I'm glad you could do this at the last minute. 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: This is a crazy clip I saw. I think I 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: saw it yesterday and then I saw it again today 33 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, I have to talk about 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 3: this because this is this is too much. So I'm 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: gonna just show the clip first and let's watch this 36 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: and then we can respond. 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: But I say all this in terms of in context 38 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: of abortion, because before God comes over Mary and we 39 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: have the incarnation, God asks for Mary's consent, which is remarkable. 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean, go back and read this in in Luke. 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the Angel comes down and asks Mary if 42 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: this is something she wants to do, and she says, 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: if it is God's will, let it be done, let 44 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: it be let it happen. So to me, that is 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: an affirmation in one of our most central stories that 46 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: creation has to be done with consent. You cannot force 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: someone to create. Creation is one of the most sacred 48 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: acts that that we engage in as human beings. But 49 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: that has to be done with consent, It has to 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: be done with free them. And and to me, that 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: is absolutely consistent with the ministry and life and death 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: of Jesus. And so that's why I that's how I 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: come down on that side of the issue. 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: So that's pretty wild. 55 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 4: My first unbelievable. 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: My first thought when I when I heard that was 57 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: I thought of Romans one. Of course, in the verse 58 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: twenty one, for although they knew God, they did not 59 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: honor him as God or give thanks to him. But 60 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: they became futile and they're thinking, and their foolish. 61 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 4: Hearts were dark and. 62 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: So talk up because you you you posted a long 63 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 3: tweet about this video. What is your reaction to this 64 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: video this clip. 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: Well, the first verse that came to my mind was 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 4: Luke one. I mean, the way he's describing Luke one. 67 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: You're thinking, we read this. This is something that everybody knows, 68 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 4: at least because it's a Christmas you know. I mean, 69 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: this is one of the most familiar passages in the Bible, 70 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: all you have to do is look at Luke one 71 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 4: and you're like, that's not what's going on there at all. 72 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 4: That is not how the conversation went. 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, let me just let me just pause and let 74 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: me just show. Let me just tell you what the 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: conversation is. So Gabriel, the angel Gabriel comes to Mary 76 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: and he says, uh. He says, do not be afraid, Mary, 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: for you have found favor with God. And behold, you 78 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: will conceive in your womb embarrass son, and you shall 79 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 3: call his name Jesus. And then later Mary says to 80 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: the angel, how will this be since I'm a virgin, 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: And the Angel answered her, the Holy Spirit will come 82 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: to you, come upon you, and the power of the 83 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: Most Hie will overshadow you. Therefore, the child to be 84 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 3: born will be called Holy, the Son of God. And 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 3: Mary said, quote, behold, I am the servant of the Lord. 86 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: Let it be according to your word. 87 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so listen the just Mary says two things 88 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 4: in this conversation, and God speaks the rest of the 89 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 4: time through the angel, and God makes an announcement to her. 90 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 4: There's no handwringing or should we do this, Mary, Come on, 91 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 4: I mean, there's not a negotiation here. This is an 92 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 4: announcement from the Lord. And of course Mary consents to it. 93 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 4: If she hadn't consented to it, she'd be sinning. But 94 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 4: it wasn't God asking her. It was an announcement in 95 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: her saying two things, how's this going to happen? And 96 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 4: he explains it's going to be a miracle through the 97 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 4: Holy Spirit. And then she says, and literally, the term 98 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 4: there is bond, slave or slave. She uses the word slave. 99 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 4: She's not speaking yeah, she's using the term for a slave. 100 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 4: She's not using the term for somebody who exerts their 101 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: willful opinion in the face of a sovereign God. So 102 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 4: that's not what's going on here at all. So I 103 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 4: think one of the most troubling things about what tall 104 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 4: Rico is doing there is it's a classic false teacher move, 105 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 4: which is not that you ignore the word of God, 106 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 4: but you take it and you twist it, you turn 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 4: it a little bit so that it's not saying what 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 4: it means anymore, but it's saying what you're trying to 109 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 4: manipulate it to mean. And I think that's what he's 110 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 4: doing here with the scripture. He's just playing fast and 111 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 4: loose with what the Bible says. It's not what the 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 4: Bible teaches. And he's trying to make this comment about consent, 113 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 4: which if ever there was like a modern concern, like 114 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 4: a contemporary concern being unhelpfully foisted upon the scripture, it 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 4: would be this idea of consent. Like today, when people 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 4: are talking about sexual morality, the only thing they know 117 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 4: is consent, like don't hurt anybody and make sure that 118 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 4: everybody agrees that it's okay. Those are the only two rules. 119 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 4: That is not the way the Bible talks about these things, 120 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: as if consent is your bottom line ethical deliberation, and 121 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 4: then once you have that everything was That's not what 122 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 4: the you're That is an iogetical reading into the text, 123 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 4: not a reading out of the text, uh, the message 124 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 4: of the text. And he's what he's doing is he's 125 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 4: just taking his his scruples about consent and then foisting 126 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 4: them onto this conversation between Mary and God. That's a 127 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 4: complete distortion. 128 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't the Bible doesn't record a conversation between 129 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: Mary and Joseph about, you know, should we keep this 130 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: kid or not? I mean, no, so absurd. 131 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 4: And also the thing that's so ironic about this is 132 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 4: he's using that story which he's reading consent into this like, 133 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 4: I'm going to bear the Son of God and it 134 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 4: all happens because she consents to it. Forget about God's 135 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 4: sovereign plan from before the foundation of the world, you know, 136 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 4: Acts one says, the predetermined plan and fore knowledge of God. 137 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 4: This is all happening. Forget about all that. This is 138 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 4: just it's all coming down to that one moment. But 139 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 4: he's using all of that to say, well, just as 140 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 4: Mary had to consent to be pregnant, she had to 141 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: allow God to do this. So it is now women 142 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 4: have to consent to be pregnant after they're already pregnant, 143 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: and if they don't give their consent, they can abort, 144 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 4: which the implication of that would be, well, you know 145 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: the child that you're carrying within you, Mary, I guess 146 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 4: you can abort if you don't consent, which would mean 147 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 4: would mean that Mary would on this reading, Mary would 148 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: have had the right to abort the son of God, 149 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 4: to kill the Son of God in the womb. And 150 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 4: the ultimate irony here, though, is it's Luke's gospel, this 151 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: very gospel that records the whole interaction between Mary and 152 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 4: Elizabeth and when Mary Mary goes to visit Elizabeth when 153 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 4: they're both pregnant. Elizabeth is pregnant with John the Baptist 154 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 4: who's going to be the forerunner of the Christ and 155 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 4: announce Christ. And when Mary walks into pregnant Elizabeth's house, 156 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: it says, the baby inside of Elizabeth leaps for joy, 157 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 4: like the being inside of her is leaping for joy 158 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 4: because the woman carrying the Messiah just walked in. This 159 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 4: is one of the few places in scripture that it's 160 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 4: so clearly speaking of the personality of the unborn that 161 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: there's an emotional response to the Messiah coming in into 162 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 4: the room. And that's like totally lost on him. He's like, No, 163 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 4: if Mary or even Elizabeth, I guess if they wanted 164 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 4: to endo their pregnancies, they could have just done it 165 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 4: right then. 166 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you mentioned in your tweet about Adam's 167 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: first breath. Talk about that for a second. 168 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, so a part of a part of his interview. 169 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 4: By the way, your listeners should know, this is kind 170 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 4: of going around today. But this interview I believe is 171 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 4: from last summer on Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan is sitting 172 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 4: there enthralled, and he was asking Joe Rogan was asking 173 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 4: him why it is as a Christian he would be 174 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 4: supportive of abortion rights. 175 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 3: And he's a pastor as well, right. 176 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 4: Or no, Yeah, he's training to be a pastor. I 177 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 4: think it's at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary down in Austin, Texas. 178 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 4: So he's simultaneously a politician and training to be a pastor. 179 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 4: But he's arguing it's really an old pro choice view. 180 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 4: You don't hear that much anymore, but this idea that 181 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: Adam wasn't a person until he God breathed the breath 182 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 4: of life into him. Therefore, unborn babies shouldn't be treated 183 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: as people until they take their first breath. That was 184 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 4: the old logic that people used to you. You don't 185 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 4: hear that as much anymore because it's it's transparently crazy 186 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 4: now because people we can see so much of the babies, 187 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 4: babies in the womb, we hear their heartbeats, and just 188 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 4: because they're not breathing, we can recognize that doesn't mean 189 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 4: we can't recognize their personhood. I mean, even people who 190 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 4: aren't super pro life recognized that in the late stages 191 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: of prejudice pregnancy that looks like a person in there. 192 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 4: And that's why you have even amongst people who are 193 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: otherwise pro choice, they're kind of skittish about you know, 194 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 4: late term abortions. So but the idea that the person's 195 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 4: not a person because they haven't taken their first breath 196 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 4: yet is not a legitimate implication of what was going 197 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 4: on with the special creation of Adam. That's a that's 198 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 4: also you know, kind of iogetically right into the thing. Yeah, 199 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: so it's another distortion of that scripture to you know, 200 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 4: sort of support some kind of a modern, unbiblical agenda. 201 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this short break. Yeah, and 202 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: you you say in your tweet, you say it's a 203 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: pro choice quote bodily autonomy end quote argument speciously imposed 204 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: upon the text of scripture. So it's you know, it's 205 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: it's just, you know, it's absurd, like as very you know, 206 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 3: Mary being a pro choice, pro abortion kind of woman 207 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: and a strong independent woman, the idea is just absurd 208 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: on its face. 209 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 4: Listen, I just want to come in to listeners. Let's 210 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 4: take our let's look at the real Mary and can 211 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 4: you imagine hearing what she heard. Her actual response was 212 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 4: not some negotiation about whether she would allow God to 213 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 4: do his plan. The actual conversation was, I don't know 214 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 4: how this is going to happen, but behold the bond, 215 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 4: slave of the Lord. Whatever you say is what I'm 216 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 4: going to do. There's nothing of this consent thing here 217 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 4: that they're reading into it. It was all he is 218 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 4: my Lord, and I'm going to do what he says. 219 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: That that is all what it's about. But it wasn't 220 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 4: God asking permission. Yeah. 221 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: And then and then Mary immediately after this, after she 222 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: visits visits, Elizabeth sings a song of praise the Magnificat. 223 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: So this is a joyous occasion for her. Yeah, it's 224 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 3: not something as you said, She's not like wringing your 225 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,479 Speaker 3: hands over this situation. 226 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 4: No, and she sees it is fulfillment of the Old 227 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 4: Testament promise. In other words, this is a plan that 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 4: predated her even being alive, and she's totally entered into 229 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 4: that and accepted it. Yeah. 230 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 3: And at the end of your tweet, you say that 231 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: if tell Rico's vision for life, marriage, and family were enacted, 232 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: it would bring misery to countless Americans and death to 233 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: the unborn those destructive consequences are not mitigated by the 234 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 3: affability of the messenger, and voters need to be clear 235 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 3: eyed about what is at stake. 236 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, And for me, what animates me about this is 237 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 4: that he's saying all of this in the name of Jesus. 238 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 4: He is saying that as a Christian, this is what 239 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 4: the true understanding of what the Bible teaches, the true 240 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 4: understanding of the Christian faith leads you to saying and 241 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 4: kill children in Uterow. He's saying that that's what the 242 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 4: Bible teaches. And the thing that's you know, concerning about him, 243 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 4: he's so nice. He's very articulate. He's very compelling in 244 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 4: a lot of ways. I think he would make you think, Oh, 245 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 4: he kind of sounds like a pastor. He kind of 246 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 4: sounds like a guy that I should listen to. He 247 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: seems to know the Bible and a lot. You can't 248 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: see it in the video that the clips that you're showing, 249 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 4: but if you watch the whole conversation with Rogan, it 250 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 4: took about two and a half hours. Rogan is completely 251 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 4: dazzled by this guy. I know, the same guy, the 252 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 4: same guy that was Rogan was dazzled by Wesley Huff. 253 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 4: Remember that it was an awesome conversation. Wesley went on 254 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 4: there and reached the real gospel and for two and 255 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 4: a half hours just defended the faith. And Rogan was 256 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 4: dazzled by him, which was encouraging to a lot of us. 257 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 4: But then you got this guy rolling in and he's 258 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: completely distorting the faith, and Rogan is just as dazzled, 259 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 4: and he's telling him by the end of it, you 260 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 4: need to run for president. You know, He's That's what 261 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: Rogan was telling him. By the end of it. I 262 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 4: think this guy is a is a false teacher. Rogan 263 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 4: thinks that he's given that, you know, the correct merging 264 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: of Christianity and policy public policy, but he hasn't done that. 265 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 4: And so I get exercised when people are falsely representing 266 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 4: the Christian faith and the way that Tall Rico is 267 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 4: and it's just straight up theological liberalism, That's what it is. 268 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, And before we get to more of his theological liberalism, 269 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: I just want to to mention again I've talked about 270 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 3: this before, but when I was before I was a Christian, 271 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: I was pro choice, and I wasn't I. 272 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 4: Wasn't like. 273 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: Art, I wasn't maniacally pro choice. I just it was 274 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: just in the water. It was all my friends are 275 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: pro choice. I was pro choice. I remember being offended 276 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: when my mother called and said my sister was attending 277 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: a pro life rally in Dallas. I remember telling my mom, 278 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 3: you know, mom, this is ridiculous, like women should should 279 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: be able to choose. And and I've talked about this 280 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: so many times. But the day I got saved, the 281 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: day that God opened the eyes of my heart and 282 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: I understood. I mean, I think it was that same 283 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: very day, and I understood the imago day. I instantly 284 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: became pro life, Like immediately, it was such a like 285 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 3: black and white. And what's what's disturbing to me about 286 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 3: this is I did a video. This was like, I 287 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: don't know, four years ago, I did a video on 288 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: an episode where and I just kind of casually mentioned 289 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: that you can't be a Christian and be pro choice. 290 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 4: And what's crazy is I. 291 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: Got so much blowback from women in my church, several 292 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: several women in my church that were like friends of mine. 293 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: I got blowback from them, and I was like, wait, what, 294 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: I didn't even know this was controversial. 295 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, it shouldn't be. I mean, there's a certain point. 296 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 4: I mean, let's be honest. I mean, if you're a 297 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 4: new Christian, there can be a period of naivity. I 298 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 4: mean my own story, you know, I was converted when 299 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 4: I was nine. But my second year in college, I 300 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 4: had this real dazzling political science teacher and he introduced 301 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 4: to me the topic of single issue voting and how 302 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 4: benighted that was. And I thought, hm, you know, And 303 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 4: so I came home during the semester to my parents 304 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 4: and at the dinner table, introduced to them this newfound 305 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 4: wisdom i'd had. You know, Mom and Dad, maybe we 306 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 4: shouldn't be single issue voters when it comes to abortion 307 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 4: and whether or not you're going to vote for Clinton 308 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: or Bush. And you know, forks are dropping on the plates, 309 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 4: you know, And that's when I learned that we'll wait 310 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 4: a minute, wait single as you this is important, Like 311 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 4: this is so fundamental the protection of human life that yeah, 312 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 4: if you get everything else right, but get this wrong. 313 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 4: It's not like one issue qualifies somebody for your vote, 314 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 4: but God gone at one issue can disqualify somebody from 315 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 4: your vote. Because this is so fundamental and if you 316 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 4: get this wrong, it doesn't matter how right you are 317 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 4: about everything else. And so I learned that, you know, 318 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 4: just even in college. But you know, you figure that 319 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 4: out at some point. In other words, you're you're laboring 320 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 4: in some sort of you're either the baby as the 321 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 4: baby Christians or else you're resisting the word of God 322 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 4: because this is so plain in scripture that thou shalt 323 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 4: not kill. And the being that's inside of the womb, 324 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 4: that's a human being created in the image of God, 325 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 4: and you just you can't take that life. It's an 326 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 4: unjust killing. Yeah. 327 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 3: And I just thought when you mentioned your family and 328 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: the forest drop, I just remembered my dad. My dad 329 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 3: knew I was pro choice, and I just feel now 330 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 3: I'm just like, oh gosh, Like what I put my 331 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: parents through. 332 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: I can't. Yeah, I might put them through. It's ridiculous. 333 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 3: Your World magazine piece that came this was came out 334 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 3: in what July of Lust of last year? 335 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was last summer. 336 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: Uh. 337 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 3: It's called a well we'll link to it below, but 338 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: it's called a gifted manipulator. And you talk about, uh, 339 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: this guy James tellerco on Joe Rogan, and not only 340 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 3: is he does he claim the Bible is uh pro choice. 341 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 3: But he also he said, you say he affirms gay 342 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 3: marriage and lgbt Q rights, and uh and he he says, quote, 343 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 3: we have four gospels with tons of teachings from Jesus, 344 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: and none of them are about homosexuality. 345 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's another old liberal saw, which is it's the 346 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 4: whole red letter Christian thing, right, So Jesus never mentioned 347 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 4: homosexuality explicitly. Therefore people can get gay married and homosexual 348 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 4: behavior is okay. I mean, we've all heard this before. 349 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 4: The distortion in it, though, and what your listeners need 350 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 4: to consider here is is that that is not representing 351 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 4: Jesus faithfully. I mean Jesus said in Matthew nineteen he 352 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 4: was asked a question about divorce, but he gave an 353 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 4: answer that tells about the nature of marriage. And he says, 354 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 4: have you not read that in the beginning God made 355 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: them male and female, and the two shall become one flesh. 356 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 4: And he's basically defining marriage there as the union of 357 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 4: one man and one woman. That is the norm, and 358 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 4: any departure from that, or any seven of that covenant 359 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 4: in that context would be a sin. It would be wrong. 360 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 4: So Jesus defines the nature of the marriage Covenant. There 361 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 4: also elsewhere Jesus talks about fornication being a sin. Now, 362 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 4: fornication is is just the catch all term in the Bible. 363 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 4: It comes from the Greek word yeah, and it just 364 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 4: it's a catch all term for any kind of unlawful 365 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 4: sexual behavior. And if you're a first century Jew listening 366 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 4: to Jesus and you hear him say pornea, you immediately 367 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 4: think Leviticus eighteen. And Leviticus eighteen lists incests, bestiality, it 368 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 4: lists adultery, and also lists homosexuality a man lying with 369 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 4: another man as if as if with a woman. In 370 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 4: other words, pornea is was the catch all term that 371 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 4: threw their minds back to Leviticus eighteen where this was mentioned. 372 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 4: And so that's kind of obscured by this. But the 373 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 4: other thing, the other thing that I think that gets 374 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 4: obscured by this is that, Okay, yeah, so he didn't 375 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 4: explicitly use the word that we translate his homosexuality like 376 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 4: Paul does. And a lot of these guys will say, well, 377 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: we don't need to worry about Paul and all his 378 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 4: sexual hangups. We just need to pay attention to the 379 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 4: red letters of Jesus. Paul was doing this other thing 380 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 4: after Jesus. Jesus is the pure religion. Paul comes later 381 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 4: and kind of adds his own oppressive male thing to it. 382 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 4: We kind of have to take some of his stuff 383 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 4: with a grain of salt. And to that, I just 384 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 4: want to say, Jesus said that Paul is a chosen 385 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 4: instrument of mind to bear my name to the gentiles. 386 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 4: That's in the red letters. Jesus said, that's Jesus telling you. 387 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: Paul speaks for me. What he says is my word. 388 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 4: And Paul says at the end of Second Corinthians that 389 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 4: he says he speaks with the spirit of Christ. There's 390 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 4: no read in black letters. In that theological sense, Paul 391 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 4: is speaking for Jesus. That Paul addresses this a little 392 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 4: more explicitly than Jesus does. It's because Jesus never went 393 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 4: more than two hundred miles from his home. He was. 394 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 4: He was it for the most part in and amongst Jews. 395 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 4: Paul was Jesus has chosen instrument to bear his name 396 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 4: to the Gentiles, which means that Paul was going to 397 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 4: all these far flung places all over the Roman Empire. 398 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 4: And so yes, when he writes to the Corinthians. Guess 399 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 4: what they were doing in corinth they had there were 400 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 4: lots of homosexual activity going on there. When he writes 401 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 4: to Timothy and Ephesus, yes, there's homosexual activity going on there, 402 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 4: and so he mentions it. The same thing in Rome. 403 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 4: So he mentions it explicitly because he's he's on a 404 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 4: gentile mission, and very much amongst the gentiles. This was 405 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: an issue in first century Israel, where Jesus was in ministry. 406 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 4: That wasn't a contested issue. That it was. 407 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: It was the capital crime. 408 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not saying it didn't exist. I'm not 409 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 4: saying it didn't exist there, but there was nobody confused 410 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 4: about the morality of it. I mean, even if you 411 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 4: were doing it, you know what the Tarra said about it. 412 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 4: So so that's that's the reason why it's not as 413 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 4: explicit as as it is in Paul. It's just their 414 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 4: different context. But they actually both speak to it. 415 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I always say that. I mean that Jesus was 416 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 3: speaking to Jews. And that's why I'm also, you know, 417 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: kind of opposed to red letter Bibles. I think they're 418 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 3: unhelpful because all of the words of the Bible are 419 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 3: the word of God, not just the red letters. And 420 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 3: that's how people like James Tallerico can manipulate the Biblical 421 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: text and do some some sneaky ice of Jesus in there. 422 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 3: But but yeah, I just I just wanted to get 423 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: you on because I saw your tweet today and I 424 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 3: just wanted to make this. 425 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 4: Fairly clear to people. 426 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: Why what he's saying in that clip on Joe Rogan 427 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 3: is completely bananas and bonkers. 428 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. If you're thinking that was an explication of scripture, 429 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 4: it was not. It was a distortion of scripture. 430 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Well, Denny Burke, I thank you so much 431 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: for taking the time to do this today. I know 432 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 3: you're busy, but I really appreciate it and I hope 433 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 3: this will help people in understanding this issue. 434 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate you. Beckett. Thank you again for lett 435 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 4: me come on. 436 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett 437 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes 438 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube. 439 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his 440 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 2: website at Beckettcook dot com. 441 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 3: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their 442 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 3: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com. 443 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 3: You will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting, 444 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 3: and more.