WEBVTT - The Big Weekend Pod

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things

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<v Speaker 1>Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot ed or. I encourage you to

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<v Speaker 1>take advantage of the many free online courses there, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale dialogues, all of

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<v Speaker 1>them at Q for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,

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<v Speaker 1>iTunes and Hillsdale. Good Friday, too, big weekend show coming up,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm pleased and honored to begin with Secretary of

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<v Speaker 1>the Interior Doug Bergham. Secretary Burgham, Happy new year to

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<v Speaker 1>you in advance. I'm so glad you could join us.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been talking to various people tender your throne, Chris Wright,

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<v Speaker 1>others about the year in review. You've got one of

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest agencies and you've had a year. Now, what

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<v Speaker 1>do you count as the accomplishments at Interior in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Hugh, great to be with you, but accomplishments for

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five is really implementing President Trump's common sense

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<v Speaker 2>agenda about unleashing American energy and that broadly speaking, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Oil and gas.

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<v Speaker 2>A year ago, US was had LNG export restrictions on

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<v Speaker 2>under the Biden administrations now world's largest exporter.

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<v Speaker 3>Of LNG, bigger than number two and number three in

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<v Speaker 3>the world.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course when we're exporting LERG, that's good for

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<v Speaker 2>Americans here because when we've got foreign purchases or when

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<v Speaker 2>our allies are buying from US versus our enemies, we're

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<v Speaker 2>stopping funding wars abroad. And then those purchases here helped

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<v Speaker 2>pay for the infrastructure, the pipelines, and all the facilities.

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<v Speaker 3>Here that help make our nation richer. So that part key.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you take a look at this broad swath

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<v Speaker 2>of all these amazing, incredible, abundant resource filled federal lands,

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred million acres of surface, seven hundred million acres

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<v Speaker 2>of subsurface, and three point two billion of offshore, the

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<v Speaker 2>world's largest balance sheet of any company in the interior.

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't just the energy.

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<v Speaker 2>Industries that the Biden administration was trying to shut down.

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<v Speaker 2>They effectively killed mining, they were killing timber, they were

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<v Speaker 2>attacking our ranchers with the great on bureau land management.

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<v Speaker 2>So bringing back, bringing back the balance sheet of America,

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<v Speaker 2>restoring these assets to being productive assets which produce for

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<v Speaker 2>the American people, whether it's food, whether it's energy, whether it's.

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<v Speaker 3>Timber, all of these things.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred and eighty degree reversal here following the Trump administration,

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<v Speaker 2>the policies President Trump's lead and so.

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<v Speaker 3>Exciting. First year off to a great start.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's showing up in the economic data

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<v Speaker 2>as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I thank you and Secretary Wright are going to win

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<v Speaker 1>or lose the twenty twenty six elections because energy drives

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<v Speaker 1>down prices. Energy is freedom. Without it, we don't get

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<v Speaker 1>anything done. We need nuclear reactors, we need all this

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<v Speaker 1>different stuff beyond exports of LNG. Are we increasing production

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<v Speaker 1>or the leasing of land on which production can occur

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<v Speaker 1>in the next three years within the United States including

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<v Speaker 1>the coastal zone.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely permits.

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<v Speaker 2>The number is there's never been a line on a

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<v Speaker 2>curve like this, but I think permitting for drilling permits

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<v Speaker 2>on Bureau land Management.

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<v Speaker 3>Is like up fifty.

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<v Speaker 2>Five percent over any other period time period. So really

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<v Speaker 2>getting back into delivering on the drill, baby drill side

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<v Speaker 2>of this, and of course doing it responsibly and smarter.

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<v Speaker 2>We do it cleaner, smarter, safer than anywhere else in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. People should be celebrating the fact that we're

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<v Speaker 2>producing more here we did hit record oil production numbers

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<v Speaker 2>this year and then shows up at the pump with

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<v Speaker 2>the gas prices, but it doesn't maybe show up in

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<v Speaker 2>California because you know, it's two forty four in Houston

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<v Speaker 2>and it's over five bucks in California. And part of

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<v Speaker 2>that is because we've got a set of policies at

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<v Speaker 2>the state level which are disrupting the energy in our

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<v Speaker 2>United States. We've got parts of our part in the

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<v Speaker 2>northeast part of our country in New England, led by

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<v Speaker 2>New York, looks more like the EU. California is in

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<v Speaker 2>a league by its own sixty three percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>oil in California now important foreign countries. California, as you know, Hugh,

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<v Speaker 2>used to be an energy powerhouse.

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean back at one.

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<v Speaker 2>Hundred years ago, California is producing twenty five percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the world's oil production, and now it's down to it's

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<v Speaker 2>barely on the list of states in America, down to

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand barrels of oil a day, even though

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<v Speaker 2>California is sitting on this resource.

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<v Speaker 3>California used to have forty refineries.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's got eight refineries, and two of the biggest ones,

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<v Speaker 2>Valero and Chevron have announced they're closing their plans. So

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<v Speaker 2>under the current leadership of California, not only are we

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<v Speaker 2>importing oil into the state of California through San Francisco

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<v Speaker 2>Bay and through Long Beach for refining. When those refineries

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<v Speaker 2>shut down, we're going to be importing refined products by ship,

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<v Speaker 2>often from foreign countries, just to keep the largest fleet

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<v Speaker 2>of internal combustion engine vehicles of any state in America

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<v Speaker 2>going in California. So again it's a common sense versus

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<v Speaker 2>climate elitism, and those two things are colliding, and affordability

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<v Speaker 2>is going to win that because the Green new Scam,

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<v Speaker 2>as it's been called, because it was a scam. It

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<v Speaker 2>made promises it couldn't deliver on. It's done one thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's delivered higher prices. So whether it's electricity or gas

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<v Speaker 2>prices higher in blue states than they are in red states.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't look at the averages. Look at it the state

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<v Speaker 3>by state.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where you can see specifically where President Trump's policies

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<v Speaker 2>are working, and that's where all the capital is going

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<v Speaker 2>to flow. It's going to flow the new wave of investment,

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<v Speaker 2>record investment in our country for capital expenditures in the

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<v Speaker 2>next generation of AI. It's going to flow towards states

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<v Speaker 2>with low energy prices, and you're going to see states

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<v Speaker 2>like California, New York missing out on this next wave

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<v Speaker 2>of capital investment.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, mister Secretary, I don't think it's possible to permit

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<v Speaker 1>a mind in a year, But are you working on

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<v Speaker 1>critical minerals rarers minds. We just had this big discovery

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<v Speaker 1>in Utah. I noted, so that by the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the term, America will become more self reliant on our

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<v Speaker 1>own resources in the critical categories of rarrors.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, fabulous question and great that you're so astute about this, Hu,

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<v Speaker 2>But it turns out you can permit a mine in

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<v Speaker 2>less than a year. We pumited the Resolution mine. They've

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<v Speaker 2>been working to get a permit for Resolution Mine in

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<v Speaker 2>Arizona for twenty nine years, and we've got that mine

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<v Speaker 2>permitted through because we've got again Office of Surface Mining.

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<v Speaker 3>If it's on federal land.

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<v Speaker 2>Those permits come from the Apartment of Interior, a Bureau

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<v Speaker 2>of Land Management or the Office of Surface Mining. Four

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<v Speaker 2>months we got them a permit. In four months, we've

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<v Speaker 2>permitted uranium. Uranium mine in America, got that restarted again.

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<v Speaker 2>They were waiting for an eis ES normally takes two years.

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<v Speaker 3>We did it in twenty four days.

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<v Speaker 2>We've done some EEA, some environmental assessments which take over

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<v Speaker 2>a year, We've done those in twelve days. And all

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<v Speaker 2>of this by just focusing on business process improvement.

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't we took and there was no shortcuts.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if a process took two years to deliver

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<v Speaker 2>a permit, it wasn't two years worth of work.

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<v Speaker 3>It might have been twenty four days of work interspersed.

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<v Speaker 2>By sitting for twenty nine or thirty days in somebody's

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<v Speaker 2>inbox as they did the whisper chain of sending the

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<v Speaker 2>permitting paperwork around.

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<v Speaker 3>Having come from a background in.

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<v Speaker 2>Tech with business process thing, that's before we've even applied

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<v Speaker 2>AI to this. This was just strike forces of people saying,

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<v Speaker 2>you've come to work. All you do is focus on

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<v Speaker 2>getting this permit out and let's see what the actual

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<v Speaker 2>amount of work content. I think the product that they

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<v Speaker 2>put out on these shorter timeframe is actually better than

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<v Speaker 2>the ones that take one to two years because you

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<v Speaker 2>have a focused team that's really really literally drilling into

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<v Speaker 2>it and getting the work done. So and then yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>the house of Representatives passed the Speed Act, which is

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<v Speaker 2>about improving permitting in this country and providing certainty for

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<v Speaker 2>economic development. That's a great piece of legislation. We'll see

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<v Speaker 2>what the Senate can make it even better and stronger.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, we have to get back as a

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<v Speaker 2>nation to being able to build great things and build

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<v Speaker 2>them quickly. And we have to be able to get

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<v Speaker 2>back to actually using our resources versus having an entitled

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<v Speaker 2>and entire armada of NGOs and legal teams who make

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<v Speaker 2>their living stopping building stuff in America by weaponizing laws

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<v Speaker 2>supposedly designed to protect the environment. When you kill a

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<v Speaker 2>mining project in the US, you move it overseas again,

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<v Speaker 2>they do it over there without the EPA, without child

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<v Speaker 2>labor laws, without whatever. I mean again, if you're concerned

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<v Speaker 2>about the global environment, if you're concerned about the environment,

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<v Speaker 2>you should want to have all of this, all the

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<v Speaker 2>critical minerals here. That's before you even get to national security.

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<v Speaker 2>But for national security, we've got to bring mining back

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<v Speaker 2>alive in this country.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you been able to get your arms I'm throwing

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<v Speaker 1>a lot at you, bet. I just want people to know,

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<v Speaker 1>have you been able to get your arms around the

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<v Speaker 1>US Fish and Wildlife Service and the Bureau of Indian

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<v Speaker 1>Affairs and all of these different agencies. The Service is

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<v Speaker 1>the worst that at a thousand thousand thousand rules, none

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<v Speaker 1>of which often makes sense, and the employees of which

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<v Speaker 1>are not exactly the most motivated people I ever worked with.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll tell you we've got some great progress there

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<v Speaker 2>as well. And let me start with the US Fish

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<v Speaker 2>and Wildlife. We're going through a complete remapping and redo

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<v Speaker 2>of the Endangered Species Act. That was again a classic

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<v Speaker 2>thing of it was highly weaponized. You know, they would

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<v Speaker 2>have training classes, Hugh. If you wanted to stop a

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<v Speaker 2>pipeline or a transmission line or some energy project, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you'd use the NIPA, use the EPA stuff to slow

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<v Speaker 2>a project down. But if you wanted to kill it,

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<v Speaker 2>then you used Environmental Species Act. The ESA became the

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<v Speaker 2>Hotel California. I asked the question when I got here, Well,

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't we be celebrating when things come off the list

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<v Speaker 2>opposed to going on the list. And because we're you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we became a nation where people sell rated when things

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<v Speaker 2>went on the Endangered Species List and what to do

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<v Speaker 2>when they went on there, then we should be working

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<v Speaker 2>to make those things better. Ninety seven percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>species that have ever entered that list have never come off.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>That's if you're grading that on a scale of A

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<v Speaker 3>to F, that's like an F minus.

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<v Speaker 2>We've got if we're actually in the recovery business, we've

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<v Speaker 2>got to be able to get things coming off. That

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<v Speaker 2>means we're succeeding, and we should be able to get

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<v Speaker 2>things to come off without moving goalposts. So big progress

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be made on ESA. On the tribal front.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been one tribe after another in my office saying

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<v Speaker 2>that during the Biden administration, including the Alaska North Slope

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<v Speaker 2>of Alaska Natives up there saying we need energy development

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<v Speaker 2>for our economic basis, schools, healthcare. Ever so some we

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<v Speaker 2>have some big wins going on in tribal country as well.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a great quick summary, Secretary of Bergham, good

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<v Speaker 1>luck in twenty twenty six and we'll check in again.

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's quite a start. Thank you for joining.

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<v Speaker 3>One little time.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewett, joined by Congressman Michael Lawler.

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Lawler represents New York's seventeenth congressional district he won

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty two, he won in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>He's been on the program before. I get along with

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<v Speaker 1>him really well. I like him a lot, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think I'm going to have to support his Democratic opponent

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty six, and I wanted to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>him about that, and he was kind enough to come on. Congressman,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back. I'm very upset about the discharge petition, and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to talk about the merits. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about what you did to my party that

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<v Speaker 1>I've spent my life building, which has put all of

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<v Speaker 1>your colleagues in a terrible position. Why should I overlook that?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, respectfully, Hugh, this is a situation where Democrats shut

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<v Speaker 5>the government down for forty three days. They made the

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<v Speaker 5>issue of the enhanced Premium tax credit the quote unquote

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<v Speaker 5>reason for the shutdown, and as I did during the shutdown,

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<v Speaker 5>I went and exposed Leader Jeffries hypocrisy on that, showing

0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.880
<v Speaker 5>full well that really was not a the issue and

0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.800
<v Speaker 5>b they had no interest in solving it. When the

0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.720
<v Speaker 5>government reopened, we sat down a bipartisan group of us

0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 5>to actually come.

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.760
<v Speaker 6>Up with a plan to reform the system.

0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 5>It would do a two year extension, but it would

0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.840
<v Speaker 5>actually start to make changes that conservatives have wanted to

0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 5>make to Obamacare for years, income limits, insurance reforms, rooting

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:38.440
<v Speaker 5>out fraud in the system, eliminating the zero premium plans,

0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 5>and actually requiring a payment from the individual, PBM reform,

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 5>HSA expansion. We worked then the group of us that

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 5>on the Republican side worked with House Republican leadership to

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 5>force a vote. We wanted to put the bill on

0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 5>the floor and frankly let the Democrats vote yay or nay.

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 5>I suspect was going to be that if there was

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.719
<v Speaker 5>a zero premium plan elimination in there, most of the

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.720
<v Speaker 5>Democrats would vote know and we worked through this. We

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.200
<v Speaker 5>tried to get it to the floor. Ultimately, we could

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:19.000
<v Speaker 5>not reach an agreement for various reasons. There was disagreement

0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 5>within our conference on a few fronts.

0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:22.839
<v Speaker 4>But this is.

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 5>Something that I felt very strongly about, both from a

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.239
<v Speaker 5>political standpoint but also from a policy standpoint.

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.199
<v Speaker 6>Doing nothing was not a solution.

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.520
<v Speaker 5>The fact is that for the seven percent of people

0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.959
<v Speaker 5>who rely on the enhanced Premium tax credit, they are

0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 5>going to see an exponential spike, and we have been

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 5>pushing leadership for months to say, Okay, we need a

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 5>Republican plan. We need to address the issue of healthcare affordability.

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 5>It's not enough to just say Obamacare bad and we

0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 5>hate Obamacare. We all know Obamacare doesn't work, and certainly

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.480
<v Speaker 5>not the way Democrats said it would work in terms

0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 5>of reducing costs. But we are in the majority, and

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 5>we have a responsibility to govern and to address these issues.

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 5>What I suspect with the discharge, what's going to happen

0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.320
<v Speaker 5>when we come back in January.

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.320
<v Speaker 6>It'll pass the House, It'll go to the Senate.

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 3>Stop.

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Stop. What will happen is all of the Republicans except

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>the four will vote against that discharge petition because it's

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 1>bad law. Am I right?

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 5>No? I think there will be more than the four

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 5>voting in favor of moving, not if I've got anything.

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 1>To do with it, because it is such a bad idea. God,

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I just want to stand the discharge petition. I'll debate

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Obamacare for three hours, but the discharge.

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:53.080
<v Speaker 5>But nobody is defending the three year I said even

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 5>as recent as yesterday, the three year is not acceptable policy.

0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 5>The problem is we need a VA to actually get

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 5>reforms done. If when the three year passes, the discharge

0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 5>will be voted on on January sixth. When the three

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 5>year extension passes the House, the Senate will not pass that.

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.520
<v Speaker 6>They've already shown they won't pass that. Okay, Lafon said.

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>That Congressmen, all due respect, it's not the Senate. We're

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 1>not going to filibuster. I'm focused on one thing, which is,

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>you threw a hand grenade into my party that I

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 1>spent my life defending. And two hundred and thirteen or

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and twelve of them are going to have

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>to vote against what looks like it's a good idea,

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 1>and that's going to be an ad against all of them.

0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>And if you can't get David Joyce, you can't get

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>the most reasonable guy in the House, and he's my

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>congressman from Ohio. If I were still living in Ohio.

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 1>You threw all your guys overboard a minute to the break,

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 1>and then we'll keep going.

0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, respectfully, many of my colleagues have actually thanked us

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 5>for doing it, because we need to have a vote

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 5>and actually advance bipartisan legislation that includes reforms to Obamacare.

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 6>So the fact is, Hugh this is my party too.

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 5>I've spent my career electing Republicans and Conservatives across this

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 5>country and in New York. But we have a responsibility

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 5>to govern and I'm not going to shirk in that

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 5>responsibility because there's a dispute within the House.

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Pause for a moment, we'll go off and then we'll

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 1>come back on. Stay right there, Congressman. I'm back with

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 1>michae Lawler. Congressman. I supported you when you use your

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>leverage on the salt deduction. I understand your district. I

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 1>understand it's difficult. But when you sign a discharge petition

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and the leadership says don't do it, you are exposing Kay,

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 1>at least get you to admit it's going to be

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 1>an ad in every marginal district in twenty twenty six

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.000
<v Speaker 1>that they voted against extending Obamacare something. It'll be a lie,

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 1>but it will be an AD and they'll be voting

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 1>against them.

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 5>Well, the ads were already written about allowing it to expire.

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 5>And that's that's the fundamental problem. That's why I said

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 5>this is political malpractice not to have a solution to

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 5>this issue, coupled with the larger reforms that we passed

0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 5>yesterday in the House that every Democrat voted against. I

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 5>voted for our Speaker's plan because we do want to

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 5>address the larger issue of healthcare.

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 6>But to just dismiss the seven percent and.

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 5>Say, oh, it's okay, their healthcare premiums can go up,

0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:27.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm not okay with that, and I know many.

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Of my colleagues even it is dismissing.

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 5>It is you have to have you have to have

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 5>a plan, and you have to have a plan, and

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.280
<v Speaker 5>we didn't have one in time with the expiration of

0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.879
<v Speaker 5>these premium tax credits. And by the way, we didn't

0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 5>just raise this issue because Democrats raised it.

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 6>Members brought this up earlier this year in.

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.440
<v Speaker 5>May when we were negotiating the One Big, Beautiful Bill.

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.199
<v Speaker 5>We brought it up in September before the shutdown. This

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.680
<v Speaker 5>was something that's been discussed within our conference for months,

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.919
<v Speaker 5>and so it's not like people were shocked that this

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 5>was an issue we had to deal with.

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Nobody it's the discharge petition. I'm really being focused here.

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm being focused. I might agree with you. I've been

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.600
<v Speaker 1>arguing for tax credits that are targeted for people or

0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 1>two hundred percent of the poverty line and are stuck

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 1>in the state exchanges. There's a big debate to be had.

0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.720
<v Speaker 1>There's plenty of time to do it afterwards. But the

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 1>three year extension is bad law. It is inflationary law.

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 1>It will never pass. It's a complete show vote. And

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 1>what I'm really concerned, I don't even mind that. I

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.000
<v Speaker 1>mind the fact that you probably cost seats to the

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Republican Party because they have to vote on the discharge petition,

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and it's like voting on an hand grenade.

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:43.520
<v Speaker 6>I disagree with you.

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 5>Doing nothing will cost us seats and what we did,

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.040
<v Speaker 5>and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 5>the discharge. And many of my colleagues have signed discharge petitions,

0:18:55.200 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 5>especially in recent years, including on conservative issues. The discharge

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.960
<v Speaker 5>arge petition is a tool of every member. It's not

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.119
<v Speaker 5>just a tool of the minority. And sometimes, like we

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.880
<v Speaker 5>saw back when John Bahner was Speaker and the far

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.639
<v Speaker 5>right did not want the XM Bank to move forward,

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 5>John Bahner did the wink in the nod and said,

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.119
<v Speaker 5>go sign the discharge so we can move the bill.

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:17.159
<v Speaker 7>And I do not.

0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Object to the discharge, So I object, that's philibout. I

0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 1>object to this one at this time, when the country

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.200
<v Speaker 1>believes that the Obamacare three year extension has a prayer,

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>and you have already admitted it doesn't have a prayer.

0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.040
<v Speaker 1>It will never pass.

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 6>I've said, I've said it will not pass.

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 5>But we needed a vehicle, okay, to get an actual

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 5>bill passed. And so what's going to happen. The three

0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.639
<v Speaker 5>year will pass the House. The Senate will not pass it.

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 5>They've already voted it down. They did it last week

0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 5>when Chuck Schumer brought it up, and I slam Schumer

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.879
<v Speaker 5>for just doing a hyper partisan three year bill. I

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 5>slam Leader Jeffries for just doing the hyper partisan three

0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.440
<v Speaker 5>year bill and not supporting the compromise bill that we negotiated.

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.080
<v Speaker 6>But we needed a vehicle that could get.

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 1>The compromise bill could actually have I'll come back on

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>the other side. The compromise bill did pass, did it not?

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, did pass what the compromise bill? The House

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:18.200
<v Speaker 1>bill did pass.

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:23.400
<v Speaker 4>It's beginning to go up like Christmas, Welcome back to America.

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Friends can disagree, and sometimes they have falling outs, and

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm having them with Michael Lawler because we're talking past

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.639
<v Speaker 1>each other. Congressman the GOP healthcare plan in the House

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:34.679
<v Speaker 1>did pass? Did it not?

0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:36.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry, Yes, the GOP plan that we put forward.

0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So there is a vehicle that we go to

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.959
<v Speaker 1>the Senate that that vehicle will not get sixty votes.

0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.359
<v Speaker 1>So if there's going to be a resolution, it's going

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.120
<v Speaker 1>to be done in the Senate, because the House can't

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.959
<v Speaker 1>do anything, but this can do anything by majority. But

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 1>it takes sixty votes in the Senate. So you didn't

0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.960
<v Speaker 1>need to sign the discharge bill to get a vehicle.

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 1>You're making a facetious argument. You did that. I don't

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 1>know why you did it. I think you're smart, you

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.400
<v Speaker 1>know what you're doing. You've used leverage before. Why would

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>you put your members, your colleagues, your friends, the party

0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 1>in the peril that you did, And why shouldn't I

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:18.680
<v Speaker 1>be this pissed off?

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 5>I disagree with you about us putting our majority in peril,

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.639
<v Speaker 5>doing nothing on the issue that Democrats weaponized during the

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 5>shutdown and that the media has tried to explain to

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.880
<v Speaker 5>voters is the reason their healthcare premiums are going up,

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.159
<v Speaker 5>when you and I both know Obamacare itself is the

0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.399
<v Speaker 5>reason it has failed to actually reduce cost. But doing

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.679
<v Speaker 5>nothing on this was the wrong decision, and we had

0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 5>an internal battle over this, and four of us signed

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.400
<v Speaker 5>the discharge. But I'm telling you there are a lot

0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.159
<v Speaker 5>more A that we're willing to sign it and B

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.239
<v Speaker 5>that want something done on this, and so we are

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:07.399
<v Speaker 5>going to get a resolution come January and force a

0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 5>vote so that we can actually get a compromise bill.

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 1>You could repay. Hey, I want to go through your

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.240
<v Speaker 1>objection doing nothing. The Republicans didn't do nothing. They passed

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>an alternative, and as we just let the audience know,

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:22.400
<v Speaker 1>it passed number two.

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.160
<v Speaker 5>That you just pointed out that you just pointed out

0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 5>is not going to become law because it won't get

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:28.439
<v Speaker 5>the Democrats.

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Like the discharge petition. So we have something to put

0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 1>in the Dessendate's lap so that they can begin the negotiation.

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 1>That didn't have to be the discharge petition. But as

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 1>you just pointed out, the media has been framing this

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 1>to hurt Republicans because the media is left wing. You

0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 1>fed into that narrative, and no matter how many people

0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 1>came up and wishard, do you will you to go, Mike,

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.199
<v Speaker 1>four of you signed it, four of you sent it

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 1>to the floor, and it's going to force a vote

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 1>where two hundred and fourteen Republicans are going to have

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.920
<v Speaker 1>to say no. Maybe it'll be two hundred twelve, and

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.919
<v Speaker 1>that because of the media that we just discussed is

0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 1>going to be the ad that sinks them. So I

0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.520
<v Speaker 1>don't know how you can walk away from the car

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 1>crash when you were driving and saying I got nothing

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to do with that, than what me?

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 5>Again, We're just going to disagree because the reality is

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 5>the ads were already written about the expiration of the

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:21.960
<v Speaker 5>tax credit.

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.400
<v Speaker 6>We are seeking to do a two pronged solution.

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 5>Number one having an answer on the enhanced Premium tax

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 5>credit with reforms number two addressing the larger issues within

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 5>the healthcare system, which you and I are in full agreement,

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 5>is a broken system. Under Obamacare, healthcare premiums have risen

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.600
<v Speaker 5>ninety six percent and meanwhile insurance profits are up over

0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 5>two thousand percent. Because Obamacare was written by the insurance

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:54.960
<v Speaker 5>companies for the insurance companies.

0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 6>That system needs to be reformed.

0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 5>And we have a plan that actually will are to

0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.400
<v Speaker 5>reform the system, and that's what we're seeking to get

0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 5>across the finish line.

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.200
<v Speaker 3>You have two question making.

0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 1>I got two questions before I run out of time. One,

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.640
<v Speaker 1>can you take your name off the discharge petition?

0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 5>No, it's already active, it's two hundred and eighteen.

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Will you you can, however, apologize for it and reconsider

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.080
<v Speaker 1>and say I made a mistake. Will you think about

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.399
<v Speaker 1>doing that between now and January so that you vote

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:32.879
<v Speaker 1>against the petition you forced onto the floor.

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 5>Look, I am comfortable with my decision and the decision

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.920
<v Speaker 5>I made. I didn't make it lightly, and I made

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 5>it after exhausting every single option we had before us.

0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 5>Within our House Republican Conference, we worked tirelessly to get

0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 5>a deal with leadership, and unfortunately, as the Speaker said,

0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 5>we just couldn't, you know, solve this Rubik's cube. There

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 5>were a lot of reasons why, and ultimately this is

0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 5>the decision I made.

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 1>So, Congressman, did you or did you not win on

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:09.880
<v Speaker 1>the salt cap? You won on the salt cap?

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:11.680
<v Speaker 6>We did.

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So the party has been good for you. The

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 1>party did what you needed done. The party broke Mark.

0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.879
<v Speaker 1>Mike Lawler got what he needed. So I'm listening to

0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:25.520
<v Speaker 1>an ungrateful guy in a marginal district who wants the

0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:28.199
<v Speaker 1>NRC seat to support him and people like me to

0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:33.359
<v Speaker 1>do it, and you're ungrateful. I really, I'm just curious

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that you did this. Do you understand that?

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 6>Respectfully? Yeah, respectfully, Hugh, I'm not ungrateful in the least.

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:42.400
<v Speaker 6>But I know this.

0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:45.280
<v Speaker 5>My seat is one of only three seats in the

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.760
<v Speaker 5>country that Kamala Harris won that a Republican represents. We're

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 5>at two hundred and twenty. If we lose those seats,

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:55.160
<v Speaker 5>we're out of the majority.

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:55.919
<v Speaker 6>It's that simple.

0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:59.520
<v Speaker 5>And I am fighting to represent my district, to represent

0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 5>Mike stituents, and to give us the majority and keep

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 5>Speaker Johnson in the Speaker's chair and keep the gabbles.

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:09.200
<v Speaker 6>So it's not about being ungrateful, all right.

0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 5>I've eaten a lot of votes this year on things

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 5>that I don't necessarily agree with. There's people on the

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.560
<v Speaker 5>other side of the conference that have eaten votes on

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 5>salt that they don't necessarily agree with. That's what happens

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:23.880
<v Speaker 5>when you have a small majority. Everybody's got a give

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 5>and take.

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.399
<v Speaker 1>Do you listen when you're out in the district. If

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 1>enough people come up to you and say I heard

0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the Hewitt and Hewitt's right, and you should apologize and

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:35.640
<v Speaker 1>vote against your discharge of petition. Will you listen to them?

0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Because I think you're a smart guy who made a

0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 1>mistake and that shouldn't end your career. You should win.

0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:43.479
<v Speaker 1>But there are people like me who are just going

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.200
<v Speaker 1>to say you are more trouble than your worth. Will

0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 1>win the majority somewhere else, because if you stab me

0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:52.719
<v Speaker 1>in the back, you'll stab me in the front. And

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:54.760
<v Speaker 1>this was a real backstab Mike.

0:26:56.560 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, che Number One, I do listen to my consents.

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:03.960
<v Speaker 5>I'm out every single day meeting with constituents. When I'm

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:07.760
<v Speaker 5>not in DC, I do dozens of events, you know,

0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:10.240
<v Speaker 5>every week in my district, So I talk to everybody

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 5>across the spectrum.

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:15.000
<v Speaker 6>Number two, I'm very blunt and direct. I don't I

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:15.679
<v Speaker 6>don't hide.

0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:16.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't.

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not being don't. I'm not being very subtle here.

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:24.200
<v Speaker 5>Either, but no, but my point is I'm not backstabbing anybody.

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:26.479
<v Speaker 5>I was very clear with the speaker what was going

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:29.680
<v Speaker 5>to happen if we couldn't figure this out, and so there.

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 6>Was no backstabbing. It was straightforward.

0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 5>And I and I've owned my decision and I've explained it,

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:39.360
<v Speaker 5>and people are have every right to disagree with it,

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.760
<v Speaker 5>but it's not backstabbing.

0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:42.960
<v Speaker 6>It's very straightforward.

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm going to pray for a Christmas miracle. I

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>know you're Catholic. Maybe on midnight Mass you realize you

0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:51.360
<v Speaker 1>should apologize for this. I hope so. Mike, by the way,

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.040
<v Speaker 1>thank you for coming on. You knew it was going

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:55.200
<v Speaker 1>to be a rough, rough going. I appreciate that you

0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.639
<v Speaker 1>found the time to do it. I'm Merry Christmas to you, Congressman.

0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Taught to you in New Year is so delightful and

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.439
<v Speaker 1>since welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewett, joined by

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Charles C. W. Cook, Senior editor at National Review, host

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:12.919
<v Speaker 1>of the Charles cw Podcast, also a frequent contributor to

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 1>The Editors Podcast. Charles, I've got to press you into

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:19.800
<v Speaker 1>servers today because we've got eight gallons to get into

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 1>a three gallons show. Secretary of Rubio gave a press

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:25.159
<v Speaker 1>conference day looking back over the year. So I'm going

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 1>to play you some clips and have you comment on

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Secretary of Rubio without benefit of my two cents so

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:33.840
<v Speaker 1>that we can get through them. Here's cut number two

0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of the Secretary of State.

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:37.080
<v Speaker 8>When it comes to the Western Hemisphere.

0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:39.520
<v Speaker 9>The single most serious threat to the United States from

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:43.720
<v Speaker 9>the Western Hemisphere is from transnational terrorist criminal groups primarily

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 9>focused on narco trafficking, but they're in all sides businesses

0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:49.120
<v Speaker 9>as well. So the good news is we have a

0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 9>lot of countries in the region that openly cooperate and

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 9>work with us to confront these challenges. Mexico, their level

0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:56.760
<v Speaker 9>of cooperation with US is the highest it's ever been

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.600
<v Speaker 9>in their history. Throughout Central America for the most part,

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:03.040
<v Speaker 9>except for maybe Nicaragua and to some extent, Honduras, we've

0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 9>had great cooperation from Ecuador, from El Salvador, from Ecuador

0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.440
<v Speaker 9>being in South America, but across the Pacific coast world

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 9>so undertaking efforts Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama. These are all

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:18.960
<v Speaker 9>nations that cooperate with us openly in search of stability

0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 9>in the region. You moved to the Caribbean Basin, in Trinidad,

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:25.000
<v Speaker 9>in Guyana, in Jamaica, and the Dominican Republic.

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Right is he right to paint sho rosia picture, Charles.

0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:32.320
<v Speaker 5>Well?

0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:32.840
<v Speaker 10>I think so.

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:42.440
<v Speaker 7>We have a tendency to look beyond our immediate neighborhood. Obviously,

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:45.720
<v Speaker 7>that wasn't always the case, the Monroe doctri put that

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:49.120
<v Speaker 7>as the number one priority of our foreign policy.

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 10>I don't know what he says next. That's the problem.

0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 7>I mean, if he goes on to say but and

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 7>then to list all of the problems that we have,

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:58.800
<v Speaker 7>then I think it will be balanced. But there is

0:29:58.840 --> 0:29:59.400
<v Speaker 7>a lot of good.

0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's go to next cut number five.

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 9>So when I say these things about Maduro and his

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:08.479
<v Speaker 9>role in narco trafficking, it's not I hear as the reports.

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:09.600
<v Speaker 8>Marco Ruveal says.

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 3>That it's not me.

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 9>A grand jury in New York, in the Southern District

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:15.240
<v Speaker 9>of New York, Okay, a grand jury in the Southern

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 9>District of New York was presented evidence and came back

0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 9>with an indictment not just against Maduro, by the way,

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 9>but against a bunch of people in his government for

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 9>narco trafficking. A bunch he had, you know, his nephews

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:30.440
<v Speaker 9>or the nephews of his wife and died it. Convicted

0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:32.720
<v Speaker 9>in the United States for narco trafficking. Like this was

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 9>until President Trump started doing something about these narco trafficking

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:41.480
<v Speaker 9>linking links. Nobody disputed that Maduro and his regime was

0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 9>in cahoots with narco traffickers, not to mention the fact

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 9>that they unleashed trained at Agua gangs on the United States.

0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.760
<v Speaker 9>They've unleashed, you know, a mass migration event, perhaps.

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 8>The largest in history.

0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 9>Eight million people have left Venezuela since twenty fourteen. So

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 9>also destabilizing all the countries in the region who have

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 9>had to ass people that are fleeing this this this

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 9>illegitimate regime. So but nobody disputed the drug links. So

0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:07.680
<v Speaker 9>that's what the president has been focused on, and that's

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 9>the problem. That's the problem in Venezuela.

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:11.880
<v Speaker 1>What do you think of that, Charlie Cook?

0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:15.320
<v Speaker 10>So, I think everything he said there was correct.

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 7>What I have a slight problem with is the jump

0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 7>that is made which turns narco traffickers into narco terrorists

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 7>or proposes that we are in some sense at war

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 7>with Venezuela. But it's obviously true, that's a huge problem.

0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:32.000
<v Speaker 7>That country is unstable, it's not anymore if it ever

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:36.360
<v Speaker 7>was a proper democracy, and the export of drugs into

0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:39.040
<v Speaker 7>the United States is a proper concern of the federal government.

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.560
<v Speaker 7>So I agree with pretty much everything he said. I'm

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:43.880
<v Speaker 7>just sometimes not on board with it, and then's.

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.440
<v Speaker 1>The and then in this case is the embargo or

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:51.560
<v Speaker 1>quarantine of the ghost fleet. I am one hundred percent

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 1>in favor of that, are you.

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think we need some congressional authorization for it.

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 7>I don't object to it, person say, I just think

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 7>we will to be careful with our terms. As I say,

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 7>I don't think that the problems that are being posed

0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 7>by Venezuela are terrorism. I think the problem is we

0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.760
<v Speaker 7>have an unstable anti American regime very close to our

0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:17.440
<v Speaker 7>borders that sends drugs into the United States, which we

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 7>don't want them to.

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>So I'm mostly with you, yeah, and I don't think

0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 1>we need congressional authorization. Back to nineteen ninety, we were

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:32.120
<v Speaker 1>siving Saddam's tankers after the invasion of Kuwait and there

0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 1>was no AUFM there. Let's go to his statement on

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Ukraine and Russia Cut number four.

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:41.960
<v Speaker 9>The reason why this war hasn't ended, and that is

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.680
<v Speaker 9>because there's complex factors at play. I know that sounds

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 9>like a throwaway line, but it's true what we have

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:50.280
<v Speaker 9>tried to do in this entire process. And let's be

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:52.160
<v Speaker 9>clear about this. I mean the United States is engaged

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:54.120
<v Speaker 9>in this. It's the President says this, and I'll translate

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 9>what I think you know he's trying to say to

0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 9>you and all of this, and I think he has been

0:32:57.320 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 9>pretty clear about it is it's not our war in

0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 9>another continent. We have equities, we have engagement in this war,

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:04.320
<v Speaker 9>but it's not our war per se.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 8>But we have been told by everybody.

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 9>I think everybody would agree that there's only one nation

0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.719
<v Speaker 9>on earth. There's only one entity on earth that can

0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 9>actually talk to both sides and figure out whether there's

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:14.760
<v Speaker 9>a way to end this war peacefully, and that's the

0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 9>United States. And we've invested a lot of time, a

0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 9>lot of energy at the highest levels of our government.

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:22.520
<v Speaker 9>I believe you know, President Trump has had more meetings

0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:24.680
<v Speaker 9>with foreign leaders and others on the war in Ukraine

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:26.160
<v Speaker 9>than on any other subject.

0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Including wire there. We'll play the rest of the quote

0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:30.680
<v Speaker 1>during the break, Charles will talk about it. We'll come

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:33.760
<v Speaker 1>back after the break and talk about the most controversial thing.

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Stay tuned in America. I'm quis Fortunes is a huge

0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:37.840
<v Speaker 1>US show.

0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Were brought to you in part by conservatives for lower

0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:41.480
<v Speaker 2>healthcare costs.

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:58.240
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's finish the quote from Marco Rubio, where

0:33:58.240 --> 0:33:58.800
<v Speaker 1>we pausitive.

0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:02.560
<v Speaker 9>Please, Steve and Jared have invested time. I've invested time.

0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:08.360
<v Speaker 9>The Vice President, the Secretary of War, others, Secretary of Treasury,

0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.319
<v Speaker 9>and more have invested a tremendous amount of time and

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 9>energy in this. And what we're trying to figure out

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:15.440
<v Speaker 9>here is what can Ukraine live.

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:16.520
<v Speaker 8>With and what can Russia live with?

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.359
<v Speaker 9>Sort of identify what both sides positions are and see

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 9>if we can sort of drive them towards each other

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:24.000
<v Speaker 9>to some agreement. War's end generally in one of two ways,

0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 9>surrender by one side for another, or a negotiated settlement.

0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:30.800
<v Speaker 9>We don't see surrender any time in the near future

0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:33.399
<v Speaker 9>by either side, and so only a negotiated settlement gives

0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.240
<v Speaker 9>us the opportunity to end this war. A negotiated settlement

0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:39.000
<v Speaker 9>requires two things, both sites to get something out of

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.600
<v Speaker 9>it and both sites to give something. And we're trying

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:43.279
<v Speaker 9>to figure out what can Russia give and what do

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.480
<v Speaker 9>they expect to get. What can we Ukraine get and

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.799
<v Speaker 9>what can Ukraine expect to get. In the end, the

0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.600
<v Speaker 9>decision will be up to Ukraine and up to Russia,

0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:52.680
<v Speaker 9>will not be up to the United States. So that's

0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:54.920
<v Speaker 9>the role we are trying to play in this, and

0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 9>that's why you see so many meetings going on. This

0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 9>is not about imposing a deal on anybody. It is

0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:03.440
<v Speaker 9>about determining what both sides expect and need to have,

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:05.640
<v Speaker 9>and what both sides are prepared to give in return

0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:07.719
<v Speaker 9>for it, and figuring out whether we can have those

0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:08.360
<v Speaker 9>two overlap.

0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:09.759
<v Speaker 8>And of course that takes a lot of time and

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 8>a lot of hard work.

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:12.640
<v Speaker 9>It can't generally be done in the media are in

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 9>press conferences. I think we've made progress, but we have

0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 9>ways to go, and obviously the hardest issues are opened.

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Charles, what do you make of that statement? That framing

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:24.480
<v Speaker 1>of what has happened over the past year.

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.360
<v Speaker 7>So I think Mark Rubia is very impressive. I also

0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.440
<v Speaker 7>am aware that he's the Secretary of State in an administration,

0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 7>is not the President of the United States, and what

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:39.440
<v Speaker 7>he's doing there is reciting Donald Trump's position on it,

0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.840
<v Speaker 7>which is more cuivocal than mine would be.

0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 10>Now, Ukraine is complicated.

0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:48.400
<v Speaker 7>I do think there's some oversimplification of the matter, especially

0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 7>among Democrats, but I am still slightly uncomfortable with the

0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.319
<v Speaker 7>way that this has discussed. I do think we have

0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 7>more of a vested interest in this than Rubio suggest

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 7>did there. I would suggest that Marco Rubiya thinks so

0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 7>as well. It's not his role to say so. He

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 7>works for the president, but he is right when he

0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:11.160
<v Speaker 7>says that if we are not going to take that position,

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.800
<v Speaker 7>then we're going to end this with a normal political

0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:19.239
<v Speaker 7>style negotiation and what each side can live with, rather

0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 7>than a more principled position.

0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:24.960
<v Speaker 1>In the part that you think is oversimplified, what do

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>you say about the Crimean Peninsula which was traditionally part

0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 1>of Russia. The Crimean War was between Britain and Russia

0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:35.560
<v Speaker 1>and other people. What do you make about the Crimea

0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 1>in this conversation.

0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:40.239
<v Speaker 7>Well, I'm not sure it has to be part of

0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:44.960
<v Speaker 7>this conversation. I think that the whole question of geography

0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:48.120
<v Speaker 7>in that ERAa is difficult. But the change here was

0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 7>made in February twenty twenty two when Russia went into Ukraine.

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.480
<v Speaker 7>The next country over from Ukraine is Poland. Now I'm

0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:59.319
<v Speaker 7>not of the view that Russia is necessarily going to

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 7>run across you Kraine into Poland, and I don't think

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.000
<v Speaker 7>it can run across Ukraine as we've seen. But to me,

0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:06.880
<v Speaker 7>the Crimean question is more abstract to the United States

0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 7>than Ukraine is because Ukraine is next to a country

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 7>that has been the source of a huge amount of

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:16.080
<v Speaker 7>conflict that is direct the United States and over the

0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:20.680
<v Speaker 7>last hundred years. So I don't I'm not suggesting you

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:23.600
<v Speaker 7>thing otherwise, but sometimes I hear that a question asked

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:27.320
<v Speaker 7>as if it's like, well, that's complicated, then shouldn't Ukraine

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:28.160
<v Speaker 7>be complicated?

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.040
<v Speaker 10>And I'm just not sure those two things happen.

0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 1>No, I agree with you completely. If some parts through

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:35.160
<v Speaker 1>these are easy, and then you get closer to Poland,

0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 1>it gets very very top and we do not want

0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:40.560
<v Speaker 1>to give up the fortress barrier that Ukraine has given

0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:42.920
<v Speaker 1>or obliged them to stand by. We're coming back on

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the network with one more cut for Charles C. W.

0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:46.760
<v Speaker 10>Cook.

0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.879
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back America. I'm here, Hewett with Charles CW. Cook

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>of National Review and the Charles C. W. Cook Podcast.

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.279
<v Speaker 1>Charles here. Secretary straight Rubio on Hamash in Israel. Cut

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.080
<v Speaker 1>number three.

0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:02.800
<v Speaker 9>Let me just couch it to you this way. Everyone

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:04.799
<v Speaker 9>wants peace. No one wants to return to a war.

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.320
<v Speaker 9>If Hamas is ever in a position in the future

0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:08.879
<v Speaker 9>that they can threaten or attack.

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:09.920
<v Speaker 8>Israel, You're not going to have peace.

0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:12.920
<v Speaker 9>You're not going to convince anyone to invest money in

0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 9>Gaza if they believe another war is going to happen.

0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:16.720
<v Speaker 8>In two three years.

0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.200
<v Speaker 9>So I would just ask everyone to focus on what

0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:21.799
<v Speaker 9>are the kind of weaponrries and capabilities that Hamas would

0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:24.360
<v Speaker 9>need in order to threaten or attack Israel as a

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 9>baseline for what disarmament needs to look like, because you're

0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 9>not going to have peace if two years from now

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:33.799
<v Speaker 9>Hamas is launching rockets or killing Israelis, are carrying out

0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:37.400
<v Speaker 9>God forbid, another seventh of October type terrorist attack and

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:39.359
<v Speaker 9>so forth, you're not going to have peace. So who's

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.040
<v Speaker 9>going to invest in a peace? Who's going to invest

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.040
<v Speaker 9>in rebuilding a place is going to get destroyed again

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:47.319
<v Speaker 9>in the future war. So that's why disarmament is so critical. Now,

0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:49.040
<v Speaker 9>what that entails, We're going to leave that to the

0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 9>technical teams to work on. It would have to be

0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:53.600
<v Speaker 9>something obviously that they're willing to agree to that our

0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:55.799
<v Speaker 9>partners can push them and pressure them to agree to.

0:38:56.000 --> 0:38:57.840
<v Speaker 8>It also has to be something that Israel agrees to.

0:38:58.120 --> 0:38:59.840
<v Speaker 9>In order for that to work, both sides have to

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 9>on it, and we need the space to do it.

0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:03.000
<v Speaker 8>But that's the way to think about it.

0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:05.600
<v Speaker 9>Okay, you cannot have a Hamas that can threatn Israel

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 9>in the future.

0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 8>If they can, you won't have peace.

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:12.279
<v Speaker 1>I think that is well put, perhaps as clearly as

0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:13.279
<v Speaker 1>anyone has put it.

0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:17.640
<v Speaker 7>What do you think, Charles, I think that I was

0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 7>sitting nodding along. You couldn't see it, but I was

0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 7>sitting nodding along. That's exactly what I think as well.

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:25.120
<v Speaker 7>I think he put it absolutely perfectly. And I always

0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:29.800
<v Speaker 7>say to people who ask about this, if the country

0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 7>involved were not Israel and the threat were not from Gaza,

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 7>if instead the country involved with the United States and

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 7>the threat we was from Canada, it would be extremely

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:44.640
<v Speaker 7>obvious to you why the United States were taking that position.

0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:45.520
<v Speaker 10>And I think we.

0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 7>Underscored that perfectly. You cannot have peace. It is a

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.040
<v Speaker 7>false piece while that threat hangs over.

0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 1>So setting aside tear up discussions which are endless on

0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.959
<v Speaker 1>the national view of the editors, because Philip In says

0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 1>that they be brought up as to you, why do

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:03.759
<v Speaker 1>you grade the first year?

0:40:08.600 --> 0:40:13.000
<v Speaker 7>Well, where I mean, are we doing foreign policy? We're

0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:17.360
<v Speaker 7>doing a generally do it at all overview? Well, Okay,

0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.480
<v Speaker 7>I think the foreign policy has been largely good. I

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:23.400
<v Speaker 7>don't like the way that Trump talks about foreign dictators sometimes,

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 7>or how he sometimes talks about Vladimir Putin. I don't

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:27.800
<v Speaker 7>think he's a Russian asset or only of that nonsense,

0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:31.360
<v Speaker 7>but I would rather a more forthright defense of the West.

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:35.319
<v Speaker 7>But generally speaking, I'll give him a bee there. I

0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.200
<v Speaker 7>think he has made big mistakes on the economy. He's

0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:40.160
<v Speaker 7>done some good things. The tax bill is very good,

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:42.360
<v Speaker 7>but I think tariffs have overshadowed it, and he hasn't

0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:45.400
<v Speaker 7>got the cost of living under control, and he's in

0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.360
<v Speaker 7>trouble in the polling because of that, may lose the

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 7>midterms over it.

0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:50.399
<v Speaker 10>So I'm going to give him a c there.

0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:52.720
<v Speaker 7>Also, because while the tax bill was good, it largely

0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:55.160
<v Speaker 7>maintained the status quo. I think I'll give him an

0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:58.600
<v Speaker 7>a on the border, which he got under control within

0:40:58.640 --> 0:40:59.319
<v Speaker 7>a couple of months.

0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:01.839
<v Speaker 10>Perhaps even quicker people have forgotten this.

0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 7>This is bad for Trump at one level because now

0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 7>that that issue is solved, people are asking what did

0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:07.840
<v Speaker 7>you do for me lately? But we shouldn't forget what

0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:11.040
<v Speaker 7>an undertaking that was. And then when it comes to

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:16.240
<v Speaker 7>some of the executive orders, the dismantling of racial preferences,

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:20.720
<v Speaker 7>and some of the DEI material that had been invested

0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 7>in the federal government.

0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 10>I'm thrilled by that. So I'm going to give him

0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:23.800
<v Speaker 10>an A.

0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:28.000
<v Speaker 7>And the latest, of course was the backtracking away from

0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:30.560
<v Speaker 7>so called disparate impact, so I'll give him an a

0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:31.399
<v Speaker 7>there as well.

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:33.240
<v Speaker 10>And then on his personal conduct, I'm.

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.960
<v Speaker 7>Going to give him a F because I just think

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.920
<v Speaker 7>that he's his worst own worst enemy, and he is

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:41.640
<v Speaker 7>totally out of control sometimes and it just hurts him

0:41:41.640 --> 0:41:42.160
<v Speaker 7>in the movement.

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.479
<v Speaker 1>Well, check in on. That's a pretty good report card,

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 1>division and I appreciate your running through it. Charles. I

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:50.960
<v Speaker 1>will talk to you, if not next week in the

0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:53.120
<v Speaker 1>new year. Thank you so much for joining me today.

0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I like someone who can go through all those different

0:41:55.960 --> 0:42:00.000
<v Speaker 1>issues and be coherent. Charles CW. Cook on X follow up,

0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:02.720
<v Speaker 1>follow me to the next segment, and even Grace America.

0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm to Hewett, joined by Ben domin H. Ben is

0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:09.160
<v Speaker 1>editor at large at The Spectator, Fox News contributor owner

0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:12.560
<v Speaker 1>of the transom over at Substack. Ben, I got a

0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:15.840
<v Speaker 1>big topic for you today, started by the Big Ben

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 1>podcast this week, which featured Robbie Starbuck. I don't know

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:24.200
<v Speaker 1>who he is, and I listened to him and first

0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 1>of all tell us who he is.

0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:27.040
<v Speaker 11>Well.

0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:30.000
<v Speaker 4>Robbie Starbuck is an interesting cap because it's rare you

0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:33.160
<v Speaker 4>have somebody who's influential and conservative politics, who also is

0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:36.400
<v Speaker 4>famous for having directed the music videos of groups like

0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:41.240
<v Speaker 4>the Smashing Pumpkins, and he has directed in various music

0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:44.439
<v Speaker 4>videos Natalie Portman and Jamie Fox and people like that.

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 4>He became more conservative while he was in California. He's

0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:54.600
<v Speaker 4>someone who has a Cuban background and as such, you know,

0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:59.319
<v Speaker 4>was already pretty anti communist and became someone who was

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.040
<v Speaker 4>essentially the tip of the sphere when it came to

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 4>identifying DDI programs within major corporate institutions in America. He

0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:13.799
<v Speaker 4>drove the likes of JP Morgan and Nike and a

0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:18.719
<v Speaker 4>number of other institutions absolutely nuts by revealing the internal

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:21.880
<v Speaker 4>documents that they had leaked to him by various folks

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:26.080
<v Speaker 4>inside these entities that detailed DEI practices that were quite

0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:30.440
<v Speaker 4>frankly illegal. I mean, you know, things that were most

0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:33.920
<v Speaker 4>biased on race. And at the center of this, you know,

0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:37.200
<v Speaker 4>he became someone who was feared by corporate America at

0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:38.920
<v Speaker 4>the point that, you know, I literally have had so

0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:41.759
<v Speaker 4>many people over the past couple of years say do

0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:43.839
<v Speaker 4>you have an in with Robbie Starbuck. We're worried he's

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:45.640
<v Speaker 4>going to come after you know this, that or the

0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:47.800
<v Speaker 4>other client, And I'm like, go with god, you know,

0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 4>I'm s well.

0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>It was a great conversation, and I was going to

0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:54.960
<v Speaker 1>add him to my list. I've just posted on x

0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:58.399
<v Speaker 1>a list of influencers, people to whose influence you ought

0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 1>to be open, not necessary agree. There's some people on

0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.680
<v Speaker 1>there I disagree with, but they make arguments. A couple

0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:07.280
<v Speaker 1>of reporters, a couple of producers, a couple of people

0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:10.440
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes, but mostly people who make arguments. I

0:44:10.440 --> 0:44:13.239
<v Speaker 1>didn't put them on there for a simple reason. I

0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>want your reaction to this in your conversation. At one point,

0:44:17.120 --> 0:44:20.319
<v Speaker 1>he went off on a jag denouncing Congress for doing

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:23.200
<v Speaker 1>too little, and he didn't appear to me to know

0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that you need sixty votes to move legislation in the

0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Congress in the Senate, and if you don't know that,

0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:32.680
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have unrealistic expectations about what the Congress

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:34.960
<v Speaker 1>can do. Does that not trip your wire?

0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:38.359
<v Speaker 4>Well, it trips my wire. A little bit. But I

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:40.640
<v Speaker 4>also think that one of the things that we know

0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:42.960
<v Speaker 4>should be cognitive of is that a lot of times

0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:46.600
<v Speaker 4>in these conversations, people will will extend out, perhaps beyond

0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:51.680
<v Speaker 4>what is what is feasible within the reality of the situation,

0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:56.000
<v Speaker 4>as opposed to what their ambitions would be like one

0:44:56.040 --> 0:44:58.759
<v Speaker 4>Ted Cruz, so I respect very much ran into that

0:44:58.840 --> 0:45:01.440
<v Speaker 4>a little bit back when he's started out in the

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 4>United States. But one of the things that I think

0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:08.920
<v Speaker 4>is key to UH to appreciate at this moment is

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:12.479
<v Speaker 4>that there actually are a lot of a a I think,

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:17.840
<v Speaker 4>an impressive number of younger voices that exist on the

0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.080
<v Speaker 4>American right broadly speaking. And this is one of the

0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:24.080
<v Speaker 4>reasons why that whole idea that you had to entertain

0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:26.520
<v Speaker 4>the likes of Nick Fuentez or something like that in

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 4>order to reach younger people always struck me as ridiculous.

0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:34.279
<v Speaker 4>It's because we actually have a surplus, if anything, of

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.399
<v Speaker 4>younger voices who are very interesting on the right. They

0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:40.640
<v Speaker 4>don't agree about everything, they have different backgrounds, they have

0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:43.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, you've got your your homeschoolers, you've got your neocons,

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.040
<v Speaker 4>you've got your you know, people who were you know,

0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:48.680
<v Speaker 4>in actual soldiers in the War on Terror. We have

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:51.160
<v Speaker 4>differences of opinion on either side of it. You know,

0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.520
<v Speaker 4>you have people who have been through the elite institutions

0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:56.200
<v Speaker 4>and want to retake them, and you have people who

0:45:56.280 --> 0:45:58.319
<v Speaker 4>want to burn them to the ground. And those are

0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 4>all things that I think are healthy to have as

0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:04.080
<v Speaker 4>a debate within the big tent of the right. And

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 4>it's something that quite frankly, did not exist at least

0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:10.280
<v Speaker 4>when I was coming up, as something that was more apparent.

0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:12.520
<v Speaker 4>But now you've got a lot of people who are

0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:15.600
<v Speaker 4>in there there, you know, later twenties to sort of

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 4>mid forties, who I would say have enough experience to

0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:26.040
<v Speaker 4>be informed practitioners of the realm of politics and in

0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.319
<v Speaker 4>the realm of policy, and people who actually, you know,

0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 4>aren't just shooting from the hip. And that's something that

0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:35.000
<v Speaker 4>I think is very healthy and a very beneficial thing

0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:38.440
<v Speaker 4>because for a lot of us, you know, who started

0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:40.840
<v Speaker 4>out on this in the early two thousands, there was

0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:44.879
<v Speaker 4>far less of a of a gross campaign for younger

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:48.400
<v Speaker 4>Americans to get into this system, unless their attitude was

0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 4>more just climbing through the ranks in order to achieve

0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:52.040
<v Speaker 4>power for power's sake.

0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Now what I wanted to ask you about is being

0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:59.080
<v Speaker 1>influenced or being an influencer. That's a new term, right.

0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:03.760
<v Speaker 1>There are a few grand old voices in the movement.

0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Whenever I'm on a panel with Britt Hume, I just

0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 1>want to look at Brett barn say, I yield my time,

0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:12.080
<v Speaker 1>mister speaker to Brit Hume. And there's George Will and

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:13.840
<v Speaker 1>there are a few people like that. And then the

0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:16.680
<v Speaker 1>boomers are rolling off. In the next five to ten years,

0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:19.000
<v Speaker 1>we're all going to be retired. And then we got

0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:22.080
<v Speaker 1>a pretty good healthy ranking from fifty to seventy. I

0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:24.439
<v Speaker 1>mean people will be moving up. There are a lot

0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:28.200
<v Speaker 1>of good voices, but under forty five it gets weird

0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:31.799
<v Speaker 1>because they grew up in a different world, ben one

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:34.040
<v Speaker 1>where you didn't read a lot of books, where you

0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't have to read a Battle Cry of Freedom by

0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:40.400
<v Speaker 1>James McPherson to understand the Civil War. You might have

0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 1>an opinion or two, but I mean you had to

0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 1>do a lot of work. Do you think that forty

0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:50.520
<v Speaker 1>five and under group are going to be ready for

0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the debates that are coming. I do.

0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.000
<v Speaker 4>And one of the reasons that I think that is

0:47:56.040 --> 0:48:00.239
<v Speaker 4>because of the number of organizations that exist. He helped

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:02.880
<v Speaker 4>them along. And I don't just mean the ones that

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:06.920
<v Speaker 4>are most prominent institutions like Turning Point alike, but there

0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:09.200
<v Speaker 4>are a number of organizations that I think came out

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:11.920
<v Speaker 4>of the benefits of the nineteen eighties and the success

0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.439
<v Speaker 4>of the Reagan Revolution that have led to people having

0:48:15.480 --> 0:48:18.400
<v Speaker 4>the opportunity to study more if they were interested in.

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:22.640
<v Speaker 4>The fellowships that are on offer are significant. The people

0:48:22.680 --> 0:48:25.080
<v Speaker 4>who are there and ready to help you along and

0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:27.640
<v Speaker 4>to give you advice about what to read and look.

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 4>You are correct, You can get those gigs, You can

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:34.080
<v Speaker 4>get that impromature that from you know, a lot of

0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:38.839
<v Speaker 4>different institutions without having done the necessary work. And I

0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:42.720
<v Speaker 4>think though, in time, that reveals itself, and it reveals itself

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 4>in the form of people who you know, are frankly

0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:48.000
<v Speaker 4>not ready for those types of debates. This is the

0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:50.120
<v Speaker 4>other thing that I want you to appreciate. You though,

0:48:51.120 --> 0:48:54.760
<v Speaker 4>I think we really owe a debt to the Reagan

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:58.799
<v Speaker 4>generation of people, and I would include, you know, not

0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:01.560
<v Speaker 4>just the work of of people who have surrounded you,

0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 4>but you know, I think of someone like Laura Ingram,

0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:07.560
<v Speaker 4>who I was reading and paying attention to when I

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 4>was when I was very young, who now, you know?

0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:12.279
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I was on her show last night and

0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 4>I was talking about Erica Kirk, who's younger than me,

0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, and the leadership that she is representing. There

0:49:18.040 --> 0:49:20.600
<v Speaker 4>is a continuum here that I think is really important,

0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:24.239
<v Speaker 4>and it has helped the ideological health of the right

0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:28.319
<v Speaker 4>and the way that I think the ideological side of

0:49:28.360 --> 0:49:32.720
<v Speaker 4>the left has crushed any ability to disagree. The people

0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:35.960
<v Speaker 4>who are disagreeing on the left, they're doing it from

0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:39.680
<v Speaker 4>an outside position that is socialist, that really wants to

0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:43.880
<v Speaker 4>demolish our institutions in a negative way, to views the

0:49:44.000 --> 0:49:48.160
<v Speaker 4>United States as a sinful, craven, horrible place that needs

0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:51.759
<v Speaker 4>to be upended, turned around, and turned upside down in

0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:54.600
<v Speaker 4>order to advance. And the reason that that happened is

0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:58.680
<v Speaker 4>because they didn't cultivate any kind of ideological disagreement. They

0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:03.200
<v Speaker 4>only have the kind of iliberal established and Ezra Klein's Madiclasius,

0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:06.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, podsave America, bros at the top, and nobody

0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:09.040
<v Speaker 4>else could really contend with them. And so what happens

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:12.440
<v Speaker 4>you have a whole diaspora of people underneath Bernie Sanders

0:50:12.760 --> 0:50:15.719
<v Speaker 4>who emerge and who frankly, you know, don't share any

0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:19.279
<v Speaker 4>of the American values that even the left, you know,

0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:23.400
<v Speaker 4>has purported to share at various points. If you rewind

0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:26.319
<v Speaker 4>even as you know, even twenty years ago, you could

0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:28.839
<v Speaker 4>find a lot of things in common with a lot

0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:32.960
<v Speaker 4>of mainstream Democrats, even you know, moderate centrist Democrats. And

0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.879
<v Speaker 4>I mean that in a true way, not a fanciful way.

0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.359
<v Speaker 4>And yet today the moderate centrist Democrats are just people

0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.120
<v Speaker 4>who maybe don't talk as much about transitions.

0:50:43.400 --> 0:50:46.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, Yeah, it's destroyed. Their party has shifted to

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:49.440
<v Speaker 1>the left now in the Reagan years, since you bring

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:52.120
<v Speaker 1>them up. I was a kid in the briefcase carrier

0:50:52.160 --> 0:50:55.239
<v Speaker 1>in the White House Council's office, but they made a

0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:59.399
<v Speaker 1>conscious effort to credential young people. Do you think that

0:50:59.440 --> 0:51:01.279
<v Speaker 1>Trump and administration is doing that?

0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:04.920
<v Speaker 4>So I believe that one of the big mistakes of

0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.520
<v Speaker 4>the first go rounds with the Trump administration is that

0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:09.360
<v Speaker 4>they did not do that, that they did not do

0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:11.920
<v Speaker 4>a good job of cultivating younger people. I think this

0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:14.319
<v Speaker 4>one second time around is doing a better job, in

0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:17.520
<v Speaker 4>part because they hired as many gen xers as they

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.920
<v Speaker 4>did within this cabinet who are mindful of the future

0:51:20.960 --> 0:51:23.400
<v Speaker 4>and who are trying to bring up young people and

0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:26.200
<v Speaker 4>help them get credentials. We do not want a situation

0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 4>where we have people who are thirty years removed from,

0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, having been sitting at important desks, you know,

0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:36.120
<v Speaker 4>back in control again. You want to have a situation

0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:39.319
<v Speaker 4>where you've cultivated people who've learned both from the good

0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:42.239
<v Speaker 4>and the bad of bad past decisions, and who can

0:51:42.239 --> 0:51:44.040
<v Speaker 4>bring that knowledge to bear when it comes to the

0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:47.000
<v Speaker 4>challenges of the future. I think, particularly of China and

0:51:47.400 --> 0:51:49.839
<v Speaker 4>the challenges that it represents, we don't want to have

0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:53.360
<v Speaker 4>necessarily the same approach that we had, you know, twenty

0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:56.080
<v Speaker 4>five thirty years ago, with people who have great credentials

0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:59.120
<v Speaker 4>but also believed that we could bring China via most

0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:01.880
<v Speaker 4>favored nations that us into the broader world in a

0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:03.680
<v Speaker 4>way that turned out not to be the case. And

0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:07.880
<v Speaker 4>so look, I believe we have a great variety of people.

0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:10.120
<v Speaker 4>We have more libertarians, we have more populists, we have

0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:12.680
<v Speaker 4>more people who didn't come up through the traditional era.

0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:15.200
<v Speaker 4>We have people who love William F. Buckley and people

0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:18.279
<v Speaker 4>who laugh at the invocation of williamath Buckley. And that's

0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:20.400
<v Speaker 4>the kind of thing that I think is actually healthy

0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:21.680
<v Speaker 4>we can have the very debate.

0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Ben's going to stay here during the break, you'll be

0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:27.880
<v Speaker 1>back on the other side. We'll talk about tpusay's gathering,

0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Erica Kirks endorsement, and jd Vance and a lot more.

0:52:31.160 --> 0:52:34.759
<v Speaker 1>Don't go anywhere. I'm here doing back now with Ben Dominic. Ben,

0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:36.959
<v Speaker 1>I want to play for you what Erica Kirk said

0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:40.600
<v Speaker 1>today at tpusay's gathering in Phoenix. Cut number one.

0:52:40.840 --> 0:52:44.319
<v Speaker 12>We're going to ensure that President Trump has Congress for

0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:52.560
<v Speaker 12>all four years. We are going to get my husband's

0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:57.320
<v Speaker 12>friend jd Vance elected for forty eight and the most

0:52:57.360 --> 0:52:58.880
<v Speaker 12>resounding was possible.

0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:03.239
<v Speaker 1>All right now, Ben, I have nothing but admiration for

0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:05.240
<v Speaker 1>eric at Kirk. I don't know her. I knew Charlie

0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:08.520
<v Speaker 1>is a colleague and a text friend and a couple

0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:11.480
<v Speaker 1>of events, but not a good friend. This was a

0:53:11.520 --> 0:53:14.480
<v Speaker 1>mistake in my view, because.

0:53:14.320 --> 0:53:17.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm glad that you said that, because I was sitting live.

0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:19.600
<v Speaker 4>I was sitting waiting to go live with Laura Ingram

0:53:19.640 --> 0:53:22.640
<v Speaker 4>last night in a van and I heard her say this,

0:53:23.320 --> 0:53:26.279
<v Speaker 4>and I creighed a little bit. I'm glad that you

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:28.719
<v Speaker 4>agree with me, but I'd love to hear why.

0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:31.919
<v Speaker 1>Well, because it's a long time to twenty twenty eight.

0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Many things can happen, and if other people get in,

0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:39.799
<v Speaker 1>the people who might be thinking about doing running for

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:43.080
<v Speaker 1>it against Jade Vans are not going to support TPUSA.

0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:43.359
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:45.480
<v Speaker 1>It's why I never endorse anyone. I want to do

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:47.839
<v Speaker 1>the debates. I want to be fair to everyone. And

0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:50.760
<v Speaker 1>can you actually go to TPUSA. Now, if you're thinking

0:53:50.800 --> 0:53:52.839
<v Speaker 1>about this and not get submarine?

0:53:53.960 --> 0:53:59.279
<v Speaker 4>Why would we adopt a college football playoff attitude when

0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:03.279
<v Speaker 4>we could have an l playoff attitude. That's my that's

0:54:03.360 --> 0:54:06.680
<v Speaker 4>my perspective, you you know, Like, look, you know, I

0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:09.040
<v Speaker 4>love a lot of these teams, but I'd like to

0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.040
<v Speaker 4>see the Packers and the Bears go at it and

0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:12.960
<v Speaker 4>see who comes back, you know. And so it's the

0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:15.600
<v Speaker 4>kind of thing where when it comes to JD. Look,

0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:18.640
<v Speaker 4>we've talked about how much we respect JD personally. I

0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:21.600
<v Speaker 4>think he's the best vice president that we've had, you know,

0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:24.000
<v Speaker 4>the best you know, sort of relationship that he's had

0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:26.799
<v Speaker 4>with the principle since we saw Richard Nixon under Ike,

0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:29.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, and and see that kind of relationship with

0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:32.080
<v Speaker 4>a younger person who's going out there and fighting for

0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:32.640
<v Speaker 4>the cause.

0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:33.600
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:36.440
<v Speaker 4>There's going to be other people who run, and it's

0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:38.680
<v Speaker 4>not just going to be people who are going at

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:43.000
<v Speaker 4>him from a more quote unquote centrist position, presumably someone

0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:46.320
<v Speaker 4>like Len Younkin or somebody like that business lobby perhaps.

0:54:46.800 --> 0:54:48.359
<v Speaker 4>But this is the kind of thing where I think

0:54:48.360 --> 0:54:50.160
<v Speaker 4>you're going to get some conservatives who are going to

0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:53.080
<v Speaker 4>run because the timing is right, because everything is right

0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:54.680
<v Speaker 4>in their lives, to run, they think that they have

0:54:54.719 --> 0:54:57.560
<v Speaker 4>a record or run on, et cetera. I think jd

0:54:57.680 --> 0:55:00.520
<v Speaker 4>Vance probably emerges as the king of the CA at

0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:02.279
<v Speaker 4>the end of that just given the skill that he

0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:06.240
<v Speaker 4>has shown. But having him earn it on the field

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:08.440
<v Speaker 4>is something that I think is really important.

0:55:09.400 --> 0:55:13.120
<v Speaker 1>That's why Hillary was a terrible candidate. Yeah, Hillary was terrible.

0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:13.520
<v Speaker 11>Hillary.

0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:16.680
<v Speaker 4>Based the kind of challenges that she had to in

0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:20.080
<v Speaker 4>order to get that candidacy, she probably would have been

0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:22.120
<v Speaker 4>a better candidate, and because she didn't, she ended up

0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:23.800
<v Speaker 4>being a worse one. She wasn't prepared for any of

0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:26.600
<v Speaker 4>the arguments used against her. And look, I personally think

0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:29.160
<v Speaker 4>you're going to get at least one person in this

0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:32.120
<v Speaker 4>race who is going to try to present themselves as

0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:36.880
<v Speaker 4>the more authentic Maga figure than JD. Vance. And whoever

0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:39.160
<v Speaker 4>that turns out to be, you know, it's probably going

0:55:39.200 --> 0:55:40.719
<v Speaker 4>to be a member of Congress. It's probably going to

0:55:40.760 --> 0:55:43.320
<v Speaker 4>be somebody who, you know, maybe surprises us by running.

0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 4>But it could be anybody, and they could be framing

0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:49.040
<v Speaker 4>themselves as to his right, and that's something he's going

0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:50.719
<v Speaker 4>to have to deal with as well. It's not just

0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:53.000
<v Speaker 4>going to be someone where he can take up that position.

0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:55.640
<v Speaker 4>And so because of that, I think an early endorsement

0:55:56.080 --> 0:55:58.400
<v Speaker 4>is foolish. And and look, you know, I wish that

0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:02.239
<v Speaker 4>she had just said it slightly differently, saying, look, you know,

0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:04.400
<v Speaker 4>if the nominee is jd Vance, of course we're going

0:56:04.480 --> 0:56:05.239
<v Speaker 4>to fight so hard.

0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:07.840
<v Speaker 1>And if my husband's friend and I love him, that

0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:09.960
<v Speaker 1>would have been fine. I'm coming right back with Ben

0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Dominis because we got to talk about Ben Shapiro and

0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Tucker stay tuned working back America. When I was a kid,

0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Fraser Ali were the three fights that defined the era.

0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:26.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean there were three knockdown fights that Thrill in

0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Manila and two more and Ali won two and Fraser

0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:34.680
<v Speaker 1>one one. And at the end Ali was the greatest

0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:42.000
<v Speaker 1>champion ever. So Ben Shapiro knocked Tucker around the room

0:56:42.000 --> 0:56:44.879
<v Speaker 1>at the Heritage Foundation this week, and then they both

0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:48.839
<v Speaker 1>met up in TPUSA and Tucker gave his thing. Ben

0:56:48.880 --> 0:56:53.200
<v Speaker 1>gave his thing, and Tucker did not answer the substance.

0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:56.279
<v Speaker 1>He said, you're attacking jd Vance and that's why you're

0:56:56.280 --> 0:57:01.040
<v Speaker 1>attacking me. That's a win by default, you think for

0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:02.279
<v Speaker 1>Ben Shapiro, what do you think?

0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:07.160
<v Speaker 4>So Look, I think he had a very challenging position

0:57:07.760 --> 0:57:10.919
<v Speaker 4>to navigate there, and I think he decided to lean

0:57:10.960 --> 0:57:14.560
<v Speaker 4>in to the end degree, and I applaud.

0:57:14.200 --> 0:57:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Him for it, because Ben Shapiro.

0:57:17.360 --> 0:57:21.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think that you can't be around the bush

0:57:21.200 --> 0:57:25.480
<v Speaker 4>with this situation anymore for all of us, even those

0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:27.840
<v Speaker 4>of us who like me. I mean, I feel like

0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:31.240
<v Speaker 4>I was a Tucker Crosson descender far longer than a

0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:34.320
<v Speaker 4>lot of people who I know, because I have known him.

0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:37.560
<v Speaker 4>I literally met him when I was fifteen, and I've

0:57:37.560 --> 0:57:42.880
<v Speaker 4>always thought him to be one of the most charming, hilarious,

0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:47.640
<v Speaker 4>entertaining people who I know within this industry, and I

0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:51.919
<v Speaker 4>have very very little had very little disagreement, i would say,

0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:54.880
<v Speaker 4>with him until just the past couple of years. But

0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:56.720
<v Speaker 4>one of the things I think has been made clear

0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.760
<v Speaker 4>in the time, you know, in recent times is just

0:58:00.320 --> 0:58:03.080
<v Speaker 4>how much he is animated by a lot of I

0:58:03.120 --> 0:58:07.200
<v Speaker 4>think personal vindictiveness, which is unfortunate and which has overwhelmed

0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:09.040
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the values that I thought that he

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:14.920
<v Speaker 4>had beforehand. Ben Shapiro, I think, took a bold stand

0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:17.320
<v Speaker 4>in front of that audience. It could have gone a

0:58:17.320 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 4>different way, but it went the way that it did.

0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:22.680
<v Speaker 4>And the way that it went is that the people there,

0:58:22.720 --> 0:58:25.040
<v Speaker 4>particularly the young people in the audience, and I want

0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:27.800
<v Speaker 4>to point that out to every listener. The young people

0:58:27.800 --> 0:58:30.720
<v Speaker 4>in the audience were clapping for Ben. They were clapping

0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:34.440
<v Speaker 4>loudly for him because they are tired. They are sick

0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:37.360
<v Speaker 4>and tired of having the wool pulled over their eyes

0:58:37.640 --> 0:58:43.160
<v Speaker 4>by people who have personal gripes, dendictiveness, spite toward people

0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:46.440
<v Speaker 4>who are leading other institutions, or who feel like they

0:58:46.480 --> 0:58:49.760
<v Speaker 4>need to make these wild claims in order to keep

0:58:49.760 --> 0:58:53.360
<v Speaker 4>people listening to them. And you know, Ben Shapiro has

0:58:53.360 --> 0:58:56.920
<v Speaker 4>his own tone. Sometimes it turns people off because, hey.

0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:59.439
<v Speaker 1>It's way too fast. I've told Ben, if anyone talks

0:58:59.480 --> 0:59:00.960
<v Speaker 1>faster than me, it's too fast.

0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.720
<v Speaker 4>I know, I know, but and I'm a Southern pers

0:59:03.760 --> 0:59:06.360
<v Speaker 4>so it's even worse for me. Yeah, but it's one

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:09.600
<v Speaker 4>of these things where I think that he prosecuted that

0:59:09.840 --> 0:59:13.640
<v Speaker 4>case as well as anyone possibly could. And then I

0:59:13.640 --> 0:59:16.000
<v Speaker 4>think Tucker got out up there and really was unprepared

0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:18.520
<v Speaker 4>to deal with it and tried to change the argument.

0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:19.800
<v Speaker 4>I don't think it worked at all.

0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:21.480
<v Speaker 1>And I think that here's what I also want to

0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:24.600
<v Speaker 1>get in now it should be over. There are some

0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:27.920
<v Speaker 1>people who do not deserve our attention, and I mean lunatics,

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:30.240
<v Speaker 1>and we do not need to deal with them. And

0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:32.920
<v Speaker 1>there are some people for whom we don't want fights

0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:35.920
<v Speaker 1>between them to go on. It's a big tent. It's

0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:39.600
<v Speaker 1>a really big tent. And what Tucker does. He's an

0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:43.040
<v Speaker 1>elegant writer. He can defend himself. He's got a million followers.

0:59:43.400 --> 0:59:45.439
<v Speaker 1>He might choose to answer it, but he shouldn't answer

0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:47.720
<v Speaker 1>it by saying, you're really attacking JD. Vance, because that's

0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:50.240
<v Speaker 1>not really what's being attacked. Most of the people that

0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:54.000
<v Speaker 1>applauded Ben love JD. Vance. It's a false choice. You

0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:56.600
<v Speaker 1>don't have to like Tucker and jd and or you

0:59:56.640 --> 0:59:59.000
<v Speaker 1>have to like Ben Shapiro. That's a false choice. It's

0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:02.800
<v Speaker 1>a question of I it's just about their ideas. Do

1:00:02.880 --> 1:00:05.000
<v Speaker 1>you think we can get it back to that? Because

1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I have no time for the other of the nutters none.

1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:09.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to talk about the nutters.

1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:12.520
<v Speaker 4>The truth is that we have to get back to that.

1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:13.800
<v Speaker 4>And the reason we have to get back to that

1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:16.920
<v Speaker 4>is because the longer we spend getting involved in these

1:00:16.960 --> 1:00:19.720
<v Speaker 4>personal fights where you have to pick sides and where

1:00:19.760 --> 1:00:21.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, well, you listen to this person and I

1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:23.400
<v Speaker 4>listen to this person, and we have to have a

1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:26.360
<v Speaker 4>dispute about it, it doesn't make any sense, especially at

1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:29.480
<v Speaker 4>this particular moment, you when it actually is clear that

1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:31.600
<v Speaker 4>there's so much that can be done and that should

1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:33.720
<v Speaker 4>be being argued in the public square that people are

1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:38.600
<v Speaker 4>being distracted from. Quite frankly, yes, all sorts of ludicrous,

1:00:38.640 --> 1:00:43.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, conspiracizing and you know, kind of stand in

1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:46.320
<v Speaker 4>fights for other things, and that's just not there's no

1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:48.640
<v Speaker 4>point to that. We should be arguing about how to

1:00:48.640 --> 1:00:51.320
<v Speaker 4>move this country forward and about the best way to

1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:53.760
<v Speaker 4>do it. The policy is about to be pursued by

1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:57.480
<v Speaker 4>this Congress and by this Republican majority and by the President.

1:00:57.760 --> 1:00:59.640
<v Speaker 4>We should be talking about what ought to be done.

1:00:59.680 --> 1:01:02.080
<v Speaker 4>As it lates the world at large, and I think

1:01:02.120 --> 1:01:05.440
<v Speaker 4>that that conversation would be happening in the absence of

1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:09.000
<v Speaker 4>a lot of this, and unfortunately we've been sucked into it.

1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:12.920
<v Speaker 4>It's natural because of the power of charismatic people using

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:17.840
<v Speaker 4>the sounding board of a massive megaphone online. But we've

1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:20.160
<v Speaker 4>got to get out of it. And I think, quite frankly,

1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:23.600
<v Speaker 4>I hope that the Ben Shapiro message is one that

1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:25.560
<v Speaker 4>helps us get out of it and help.

1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it will, and I generally acknowledge it. I

1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:33.600
<v Speaker 1>don't want Charlie Kirk's murderer to have successfully destroyed his

1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:40.680
<v Speaker 1>movement by unleashing one hundred different demons. People in anger

1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:43.520
<v Speaker 1>and people are aggrieving, and I just don't want that.

1:01:43.720 --> 1:01:46.400
<v Speaker 1>He built a very good GOOTV. I've always thought turning

1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:48.560
<v Speaker 1>point at GOOTV. I didn't think of it like the

1:01:48.640 --> 1:01:52.560
<v Speaker 1>National Review semi every two years they get together and

1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:55.280
<v Speaker 1>have an idea summit. That's not what it is. It's

1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:59.880
<v Speaker 1>a GOOTV effort, and I just wanted to work and

1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:03.840
<v Speaker 1>keep working, so I do too.

1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:06.720
<v Speaker 4>I do too. I think it's possible. I'm hopeful, and

1:02:06.800 --> 1:02:11.800
<v Speaker 4>I quite frankly believe that this Andora's Box that that

1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:16.360
<v Speaker 4>this shooter, this assassin opened is one that actually has

1:02:16.400 --> 1:02:19.360
<v Speaker 4>a lot more hope as it relates to Americans, young

1:02:19.400 --> 1:02:23.000
<v Speaker 4>Americans in particular, coming back to faith in their own lives,

1:02:23.200 --> 1:02:26.800
<v Speaker 4>being motivated by the things that motivated Charlie, appreciating those

1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:29.880
<v Speaker 4>aspects of him beyond just to get out the vogue effort.

1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:33.000
<v Speaker 4>And that's something that I think is very healthy, beneficial

1:02:33.040 --> 1:02:35.680
<v Speaker 4>and good for the country. I just want it to

1:02:35.760 --> 1:02:40.480
<v Speaker 4>be more centered around that, as opposed to these ridiculous,

1:02:40.680 --> 1:02:45.800
<v Speaker 4>vindictive and pointless conspiracy theories mounted by people who are

1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:49.680
<v Speaker 4>only getting the attention in part because it benefits the

1:02:49.800 --> 1:02:53.000
<v Speaker 4>left to promote them. It benefits the other side of

1:02:53.040 --> 1:02:57.800
<v Speaker 4>this argument to promote them and voicing that along on

1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:00.840
<v Speaker 4>quite frankly, a number of people who I say don't

1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:04.240
<v Speaker 4>have the necessary defenses against something like that because they

1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:06.200
<v Speaker 4>have trusted these voices for so long.

1:03:07.000 --> 1:03:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Well said. And on that note, we'll talk to you

1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:11.600
<v Speaker 1>maybe once more before Christmas, if we don't marry Christmas,

1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Ben have a great one. I've been telling you every

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<v Speaker 1>by the hey phone on us Big Wireless offers. Their

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1:04:51.920 --> 1:04:55.440
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<v Speaker 1>and do it today. All right, queuet dot com banner

1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:52.200
<v Speaker 1>at the top. I'll be right back. Welcome back in America.

1:05:52.280 --> 1:05:55.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm Hugh Hewett. Uilake is a contributor to the Free Press.

1:05:55.960 --> 1:05:58.520
<v Speaker 1>He's the host of the Breaking History podcast. I love.

1:05:58.600 --> 1:06:03.040
<v Speaker 1>His most recent one ELI today, the Turning Point USA conference,

1:06:03.240 --> 1:06:06.000
<v Speaker 1>which is for the kids, right for the younger people

1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:09.360
<v Speaker 1>than you and I. They had Ben Shapiro and they

1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:11.920
<v Speaker 1>had Tucker Carlson. We'll talk about that in a moment.

1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Erica Kirk made an announcement. I was somewhat surprised, but

1:06:15.960 --> 1:06:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I want to play it for you and get your reaction.

1:06:17.880 --> 1:06:20.720
<v Speaker 12>Cut Number one, we're going to ensure that President Trump

1:06:21.280 --> 1:06:29.200
<v Speaker 12>has Congress for all four years. We are going to

1:06:29.240 --> 1:06:34.360
<v Speaker 12>get my husband's friend jd Vance elected for forty eight

1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:36.800
<v Speaker 12>and the most resoundingly possible.

1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.360
<v Speaker 1>All right, So, before we moved to the second part,

1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:42.440
<v Speaker 1>are you surprised that she did that.

1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:51.880
<v Speaker 13>No, because Turning Point USA, I think was is always

1:06:52.480 --> 1:06:56.240
<v Speaker 13>very much of a Vance twenty twenty eight operation. There

1:06:56.720 --> 1:07:00.640
<v Speaker 13>was a moment after that horrible assassination where I thought

1:07:00.680 --> 1:07:03.920
<v Speaker 13>there and I still think TPOSA should say is also

1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:06.200
<v Speaker 13>doing this, But it could have turned into kind of

1:07:06.200 --> 1:07:10.439
<v Speaker 13>a civic organization that encouraged people to find a church,

1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:14.760
<v Speaker 13>find religion, go back to God, focus on the lost boys,

1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:17.600
<v Speaker 13>as Charlie Kirk used to call them, who have found

1:07:17.680 --> 1:07:19.280
<v Speaker 13>you know, who have sort of sunk into a life

1:07:19.280 --> 1:07:23.720
<v Speaker 13>of nihilism online. But I think it's always been TPOSA

1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:28.880
<v Speaker 13>is an organization that is largely political, and JD Vance

1:07:29.000 --> 1:07:32.800
<v Speaker 13>was very close with Charlie Kirk, and I think people

1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:36.120
<v Speaker 13>inside the Republican Party kind of understood this was the

1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:42.320
<v Speaker 13>grassroots organization for Advance twenty twenty eight. I think that

1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:45.080
<v Speaker 13>it might be more wide open than that, and this

1:07:45.200 --> 1:07:48.240
<v Speaker 13>may be it's I think it's maybe too soon to

1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:51.560
<v Speaker 13>kind of come out and say that, because I think

1:07:51.560 --> 1:07:53.720
<v Speaker 13>there's a lot of things that can happen. But I'm

1:07:53.760 --> 1:07:55.680
<v Speaker 13>not necessarily surprised now.

1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:59.680
<v Speaker 1>I was surprised because it's an obstacle to growth. Whenever

1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:03.800
<v Speaker 1>you're declaring you're excluding, and I thought they were growing,

1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:06.920
<v Speaker 1>And I think JD. Vance is probably going to be

1:08:06.960 --> 1:08:09.000
<v Speaker 1>the nominee, and he's a friend of my program, and

1:08:09.000 --> 1:08:10.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad to have them on all the time. But

1:08:10.680 --> 1:08:13.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't get involved in the presidential primary until the

1:08:13.160 --> 1:08:15.640
<v Speaker 1>presidential primary is over, so I was surprised.

1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Now.

1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:20.519
<v Speaker 1>Ben Shapiro gave a speech at Heritage this week which

1:08:21.080 --> 1:08:24.920
<v Speaker 1>was a full frontal attack on Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson

1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:30.240
<v Speaker 1>responded at TPUSA today in an unusual way. They ended

1:08:30.320 --> 1:08:34.720
<v Speaker 1>up not debating an argument. Tucker ended up saying I'm

1:08:34.760 --> 1:08:38.400
<v Speaker 1>being attacked because it's a way of getting JD. Vance

1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:44.440
<v Speaker 1>that is, I believe wrong. And I think his ideas

1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:48.040
<v Speaker 1>are being attacked by various people like Ben, like you,

1:08:48.200 --> 1:08:52.360
<v Speaker 1>like me, on idea by idea basis. Do you think

1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:58.080
<v Speaker 1>he capitulated today by switching from the idea debate to

1:08:58.240 --> 1:09:00.600
<v Speaker 1>the oh, you're really attacking JD. Dance to be.

1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:02.720
<v Speaker 11>No.

1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:05.719
<v Speaker 13>I think that's part for the course, Unfortunately for Tucker,

1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:09.080
<v Speaker 13>who I think was at earlier parts of his career

1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:14.280
<v Speaker 13>a far more thoughtful and serious thinker and writer and broadcaster.

1:09:15.680 --> 1:09:19.720
<v Speaker 13>I think that Ben Shapiro's speeches at Heritage and at

1:09:19.760 --> 1:09:23.440
<v Speaker 13>TPUSA will be read in fifty years by young conservatives

1:09:23.479 --> 1:09:26.040
<v Speaker 13>if they want to understand what was at stake in

1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:29.599
<v Speaker 13>this moment. After the Charlie Kirk assassination in twenty twenty five,

1:09:30.120 --> 1:09:34.920
<v Speaker 13>I thought they were absolutely masterful. Now, yes, the headlines

1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:40.080
<v Speaker 13>are that he did get personal, not just with Tucker Carlson,

1:09:40.080 --> 1:09:42.920
<v Speaker 13>but with Megan Kelly, Candice Owens and others. But I

1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:47.280
<v Speaker 13>think he also laid out important principles that for the

1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:49.599
<v Speaker 13>most part, people who are on the right, people who

1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:55.439
<v Speaker 13>are conservatives, have to renew in every generation, and Ben Shapiro,

1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:58.240
<v Speaker 13>in my view, has done that. I cannot tell you

1:09:58.280 --> 1:10:01.200
<v Speaker 13>how much respect I have for what he did. I

1:10:01.200 --> 1:10:03.599
<v Speaker 13>don't think this needs to be personal, and I think

1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:06.759
<v Speaker 13>your approach is right. It's not about canceling the person.

1:10:06.840 --> 1:10:09.800
<v Speaker 13>It's about grappling with the ideas. But a lot of

1:10:09.840 --> 1:10:14.479
<v Speaker 13>the ideas that we're hearing and the style, the grammar

1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:19.320
<v Speaker 13>of the political discourse has gone off the rails into

1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:21.880
<v Speaker 13>conspiracy theory land. And I know that you don't like

1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:23.320
<v Speaker 13>to talk about some of these people, and I think

1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:27.120
<v Speaker 13>that's there's wisdom in that, by the way, but we

1:10:27.200 --> 1:10:29.760
<v Speaker 13>have to grapple that there are millions of people who

1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:37.400
<v Speaker 13>tune in online to hear innuendo, garbage, conspiracy, ahistorical stuff

1:10:38.040 --> 1:10:42.599
<v Speaker 13>that gnaws away at the trust we need to have

1:10:42.760 --> 1:10:46.320
<v Speaker 13>in basic institutions in order to reform them to save

1:10:46.400 --> 1:10:51.240
<v Speaker 13>the country. So I mean, in my view, indulging ideas

1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:55.000
<v Speaker 13>that you know, the French and the mo Soad and

1:10:55.040 --> 1:10:59.240
<v Speaker 13>maybe even TPUSA staff may have played a role in

1:10:59.280 --> 1:10:59.759
<v Speaker 13>the murder.

1:10:59.840 --> 1:11:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Is it's just it's so toxic. Well, what I want

1:11:03.439 --> 1:11:05.400
<v Speaker 1>to get to eli and make sure I get to it.

1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:08.240
<v Speaker 1>I had a leader thun On this week and I

1:11:08.320 --> 1:11:11.960
<v Speaker 1>put it to him squarely, is it a requirement to

1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:15.120
<v Speaker 1>be a member of the Republican Party in ninety nine

1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:17.799
<v Speaker 1>percent of the time to be a full throated ally

1:11:18.000 --> 1:11:20.880
<v Speaker 1>of Israel and to recognize that they are America's most

1:11:20.880 --> 1:11:23.639
<v Speaker 1>important ally? And is the GOP going to stand by Israel?

1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>And the leader did not hesitate. He said, absolutely, it

1:11:26.280 --> 1:11:30.080
<v Speaker 1>is part of our core identity to be an ally

1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of Israel. So that's not a negative attack on anyone.

1:11:33.840 --> 1:11:36.519
<v Speaker 1>I said, Look, I know Senator Paul leaves your caucus

1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:40.360
<v Speaker 1>on that occasionally, and Tom Massey's wigne, but in ninety

1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:43.599
<v Speaker 1>nine percent of the time, you've got to be with Israel,

1:11:43.880 --> 1:11:47.280
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's the positive case. You know, here

1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:49.519
<v Speaker 1>are the things we believe in, which is what Ben did,

1:11:49.560 --> 1:11:52.360
<v Speaker 1>although he left Israel off I think probably very smartly.

1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:55.000
<v Speaker 1>But he said you got to have boundaries to have

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<v Speaker 1>a party, just like you have to have boundaries to

1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:59.360
<v Speaker 1>have a country. He did not mention part of my

1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:02.360
<v Speaker 1>boundaries support for the state of Israel. Do you think

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:04.240
<v Speaker 1>that's going to be part of the boundary for the

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<v Speaker 1>Republican Party going forward?

1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:09.479
<v Speaker 13>I would phrase it differently. I think that there is

1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:13.439
<v Speaker 13>plenty of room, and I've seen many Zionists and pro

1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:17.000
<v Speaker 13>Israel voices have this conversation. I wrote about this eleven

1:12:17.080 --> 1:12:20.120
<v Speaker 13>years ago. I should say for The Daily Beast that

1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:24.360
<v Speaker 13>you can question whether the military subsidy is wise at

1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:27.200
<v Speaker 13>this point, the aid to Israel, and there are a

1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:29.360
<v Speaker 13>lot of Israelies, by the way, who would agree that

1:12:29.400 --> 1:12:34.040
<v Speaker 13>it's time to phase that out. You can criticize tactics

1:12:34.080 --> 1:12:38.680
<v Speaker 13>in a very hard war, but when you frame the

1:12:38.720 --> 1:12:43.920
<v Speaker 13>conflict in Gaza without applying any agency to the party

1:12:43.960 --> 1:12:47.240
<v Speaker 13>that started the war, and you describe it as a

1:12:47.280 --> 1:12:51.920
<v Speaker 13>sort of genocide against defenseless people without mentioning the fact

1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:55.719
<v Speaker 13>that the people who started the war are hiding under tunnels,

1:12:56.280 --> 1:12:59.920
<v Speaker 13>under mosques and schools and apartment buildings and have a

1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:03.800
<v Speaker 13>strategy of using human shields and don't wear uniforms. That's

1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:07.280
<v Speaker 13>where it gets in my view, where it's a moral

1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:10.800
<v Speaker 13>question or question of values. There's plenty of room to

1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:14.599
<v Speaker 13>have people who would like a less robust American foreign

1:13:14.600 --> 1:13:17.439
<v Speaker 13>policy that believes that when there are choices to be

1:13:17.439 --> 1:13:20.439
<v Speaker 13>made with limited resources, we should focus more at home.

1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:22.360
<v Speaker 13>I don't I think you can be part of the right.

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<v Speaker 13>I don't think there's any problem with that. The issue

1:13:25.720 --> 1:13:29.559
<v Speaker 13>is when the criticism curdles into defamation, and that has

1:13:29.640 --> 1:13:34.160
<v Speaker 13>happened at light speed in certain segments in the online world,

1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:37.200
<v Speaker 13>and when it becomes conspiratorial. When you hear people say

1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:40.880
<v Speaker 13>the Israel lobby is the real government of the United States,

1:13:40.920 --> 1:13:43.919
<v Speaker 13>which is just you and I both know is absurd

1:13:44.280 --> 1:13:50.200
<v Speaker 13>to be stupidity, right, right, And when you even say

1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:54.360
<v Speaker 13>that American citizens, many of whom are not Jewish, who

1:13:54.600 --> 1:13:59.360
<v Speaker 13>support a strong US Israel alliance, are somehow being disloyal

1:13:59.720 --> 1:14:03.000
<v Speaker 13>or not as lawyer, or not putting America first. That's

1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:06.280
<v Speaker 13>where it leads into something which I don't think is acceptable.

1:14:06.479 --> 1:14:08.720
<v Speaker 13>But those are again for value reasons. We can have

1:14:08.760 --> 1:14:11.400
<v Speaker 13>a debate about policy, no problem. People say you can't

1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:14.360
<v Speaker 13>criticize this realm. Sure you can, but that's not criticism.

1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:17.320
<v Speaker 13>That is to another remanance, not really about Israel. It's

1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:20.880
<v Speaker 13>but who we are as a movement on the right and.

1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:24.280
<v Speaker 1>As a country and as a party. I'm a Republican.

1:14:24.720 --> 1:14:27.000
<v Speaker 1>The party has to be for a strong defense, and

1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a strong defense has to support Israel when it needs support.

1:14:31.439 --> 1:14:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Whether or not that's a military subtry, I don't know.

1:14:34.000 --> 1:14:36.400
<v Speaker 1>But if they need at thirty five, we sell them

1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:39.479
<v Speaker 1>at thirty five. If that simple, they are our most

1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:42.959
<v Speaker 1>important superpower ally, Eli Lake, thank you, my friend Vallmann

1:14:43.080 --> 1:14:44.840
<v Speaker 1>et Eli Lake. Stay tuned.