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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things

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Speaker 1: Hillsdale at Hillsdale dot ed or. I encourage you to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of the many free online courses there, and

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Speaker 1: of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale dialogues, all of

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Speaker 1: them at Q for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,

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Speaker 1: iTunes and Hillsdale. Good Friday, too, big weekend show coming up,

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Speaker 1: and I'm pleased and honored to begin with Secretary of

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Speaker 1: the Interior Doug Bergham. Secretary Burgham, Happy new year to

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Speaker 1: you in advance. I'm so glad you could join us.

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Speaker 1: I've been talking to various people tender your throne, Chris Wright,

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Speaker 1: others about the year in review. You've got one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest agencies and you've had a year. Now, what

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Speaker 1: do you count as the accomplishments at Interior in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five?

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Speaker 2: Well, Hugh, great to be with you, but accomplishments for

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five is really implementing President Trump's common sense

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Speaker 2: agenda about unleashing American energy and that broadly speaking, I

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Speaker 2: mean we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: Oil and gas.

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Speaker 2: A year ago, US was had LNG export restrictions on

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Speaker 2: under the Biden administrations now world's largest exporter.

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Speaker 3: Of LNG, bigger than number two and number three in

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 2: And of course when we're exporting LERG, that's good for

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Speaker 2: Americans here because when we've got foreign purchases or when

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Speaker 2: our allies are buying from US versus our enemies, we're

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Speaker 2: stopping funding wars abroad. And then those purchases here helped

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Speaker 2: pay for the infrastructure, the pipelines, and all the facilities.

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Speaker 3: Here that help make our nation richer. So that part key.

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Speaker 2: But when you take a look at this broad swath

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Speaker 2: of all these amazing, incredible, abundant resource filled federal lands,

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Speaker 2: five hundred million acres of surface, seven hundred million acres

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Speaker 2: of subsurface, and three point two billion of offshore, the

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Speaker 2: world's largest balance sheet of any company in the interior.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just the energy.

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Speaker 2: Industries that the Biden administration was trying to shut down.

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Speaker 2: They effectively killed mining, they were killing timber, they were

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Speaker 2: attacking our ranchers with the great on bureau land management.

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Speaker 2: So bringing back, bringing back the balance sheet of America,

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Speaker 2: restoring these assets to being productive assets which produce for

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Speaker 2: the American people, whether it's food, whether it's energy, whether it's.

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Speaker 3: Timber, all of these things.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and eighty degree reversal here following the Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: the policies President Trump's lead and so.

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Speaker 3: Exciting. First year off to a great start.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's showing up in the economic data

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: I thank you and Secretary Wright are going to win

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Speaker 1: or lose the twenty twenty six elections because energy drives

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Speaker 1: down prices. Energy is freedom. Without it, we don't get

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Speaker 1: anything done. We need nuclear reactors, we need all this

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Speaker 1: different stuff beyond exports of LNG. Are we increasing production

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Speaker 1: or the leasing of land on which production can occur

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Speaker 1: in the next three years within the United States including

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Speaker 1: the coastal zone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely permits.

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Speaker 2: The number is there's never been a line on a

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Speaker 2: curve like this, but I think permitting for drilling permits

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Speaker 2: on Bureau land Management.

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Speaker 3: Is like up fifty.

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Speaker 2: Five percent over any other period time period. So really

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Speaker 2: getting back into delivering on the drill, baby drill side

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Speaker 2: of this, and of course doing it responsibly and smarter.

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Speaker 2: We do it cleaner, smarter, safer than anywhere else in

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Speaker 2: the world. People should be celebrating the fact that we're

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Speaker 2: producing more here we did hit record oil production numbers

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Speaker 2: this year and then shows up at the pump with

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Speaker 2: the gas prices, but it doesn't maybe show up in

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Speaker 2: California because you know, it's two forty four in Houston

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Speaker 2: and it's over five bucks in California. And part of

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Speaker 2: that is because we've got a set of policies at

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Speaker 2: the state level which are disrupting the energy in our

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Speaker 2: United States. We've got parts of our part in the

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Speaker 2: northeast part of our country in New England, led by

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Speaker 2: New York, looks more like the EU. California is in

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Speaker 2: a league by its own sixty three percent of the

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Speaker 2: oil in California now important foreign countries. California, as you know, Hugh,

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Speaker 2: used to be an energy powerhouse.

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Speaker 3: So I mean back at one.

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Speaker 2: Hundred years ago, California is producing twenty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the world's oil production, and now it's down to it's

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Speaker 2: barely on the list of states in America, down to

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Speaker 2: one hundred thousand barrels of oil a day, even though

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Speaker 2: California is sitting on this resource.

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Speaker 3: California used to have forty refineries.

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Speaker 2: Now it's got eight refineries, and two of the biggest ones,

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Speaker 2: Valero and Chevron have announced they're closing their plans. So

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Speaker 2: under the current leadership of California, not only are we

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Speaker 2: importing oil into the state of California through San Francisco

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Speaker 2: Bay and through Long Beach for refining. When those refineries

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Speaker 2: shut down, we're going to be importing refined products by ship,

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Speaker 2: often from foreign countries, just to keep the largest fleet

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Speaker 2: of internal combustion engine vehicles of any state in America

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Speaker 2: going in California. So again it's a common sense versus

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Speaker 2: climate elitism, and those two things are colliding, and affordability

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Speaker 2: is going to win that because the Green new Scam,

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Speaker 2: as it's been called, because it was a scam. It

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Speaker 2: made promises it couldn't deliver on. It's done one thing.

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Speaker 2: It's delivered higher prices. So whether it's electricity or gas

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Speaker 2: prices higher in blue states than they are in red states.

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Speaker 3: Don't look at the averages. Look at it the state

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Speaker 3: by state.

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Speaker 2: That's where you can see specifically where President Trump's policies

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Speaker 2: are working, and that's where all the capital is going

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Speaker 2: to flow. It's going to flow the new wave of investment,

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Speaker 2: record investment in our country for capital expenditures in the

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Speaker 2: next generation of AI. It's going to flow towards states

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Speaker 2: with low energy prices, and you're going to see states

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Speaker 2: like California, New York missing out on this next wave

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Speaker 2: of capital investment.

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Speaker 1: Now, mister Secretary, I don't think it's possible to permit

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Speaker 1: a mind in a year, But are you working on

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Speaker 1: critical minerals rarers minds. We just had this big discovery

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Speaker 1: in Utah. I noted, so that by the end of

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Speaker 1: the term, America will become more self reliant on our

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Speaker 1: own resources in the critical categories of rarrors.

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Speaker 2: Well, fabulous question and great that you're so astute about this, Hu,

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Speaker 2: But it turns out you can permit a mine in

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Speaker 2: less than a year. We pumited the Resolution mine. They've

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Speaker 2: been working to get a permit for Resolution Mine in

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Speaker 2: Arizona for twenty nine years, and we've got that mine

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Speaker 2: permitted through because we've got again Office of Surface Mining.

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Speaker 3: If it's on federal land.

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Speaker 2: Those permits come from the Apartment of Interior, a Bureau

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Speaker 2: of Land Management or the Office of Surface Mining. Four

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Speaker 2: months we got them a permit. In four months, we've

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Speaker 2: permitted uranium. Uranium mine in America, got that restarted again.

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Speaker 2: They were waiting for an eis ES normally takes two years.

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Speaker 3: We did it in twenty four days.

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Speaker 2: We've done some EEA, some environmental assessments which take over

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Speaker 2: a year, We've done those in twelve days. And all

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Speaker 2: of this by just focusing on business process improvement.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't we took and there was no shortcuts.

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Speaker 2: You know, if a process took two years to deliver

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Speaker 2: a permit, it wasn't two years worth of work.

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Speaker 3: It might have been twenty four days of work interspersed.

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Speaker 2: By sitting for twenty nine or thirty days in somebody's

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Speaker 2: inbox as they did the whisper chain of sending the

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Speaker 2: permitting paperwork around.

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Speaker 3: Having come from a background in.

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Speaker 2: Tech with business process thing, that's before we've even applied

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Speaker 2: AI to this. This was just strike forces of people saying,

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Speaker 2: you've come to work. All you do is focus on

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Speaker 2: getting this permit out and let's see what the actual

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Speaker 2: amount of work content. I think the product that they

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Speaker 2: put out on these shorter timeframe is actually better than

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Speaker 2: the ones that take one to two years because you

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Speaker 2: have a focused team that's really really literally drilling into

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Speaker 2: it and getting the work done. So and then yesterday

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Speaker 2: the house of Representatives passed the Speed Act, which is

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Speaker 2: about improving permitting in this country and providing certainty for

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Speaker 2: economic development. That's a great piece of legislation. We'll see

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Speaker 2: what the Senate can make it even better and stronger.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we have to get back as a

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Speaker 2: nation to being able to build great things and build

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Speaker 2: them quickly. And we have to be able to get

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Speaker 2: back to actually using our resources versus having an entitled

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Speaker 2: and entire armada of NGOs and legal teams who make

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Speaker 2: their living stopping building stuff in America by weaponizing laws

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Speaker 2: supposedly designed to protect the environment. When you kill a

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Speaker 2: mining project in the US, you move it overseas again,

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Speaker 2: they do it over there without the EPA, without child

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Speaker 2: labor laws, without whatever. I mean again, if you're concerned

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Speaker 2: about the global environment, if you're concerned about the environment,

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Speaker 2: you should want to have all of this, all the

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Speaker 2: critical minerals here. That's before you even get to national security.

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Speaker 2: But for national security, we've got to bring mining back

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Speaker 2: alive in this country.

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Speaker 1: Have you been able to get your arms I'm throwing

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Speaker 1: a lot at you, bet. I just want people to know,

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Speaker 1: have you been able to get your arms around the

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Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Service and the Bureau of Indian

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Speaker 1: Affairs and all of these different agencies. The Service is

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Speaker 1: the worst that at a thousand thousand thousand rules, none

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Speaker 1: of which often makes sense, and the employees of which

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Speaker 1: are not exactly the most motivated people I ever worked with.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you we've got some great progress there

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Speaker 2: as well. And let me start with the US Fish

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Speaker 2: and Wildlife. We're going through a complete remapping and redo

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Speaker 2: of the Endangered Species Act. That was again a classic

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Speaker 2: thing of it was highly weaponized. You know, they would

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Speaker 2: have training classes, Hugh. If you wanted to stop a

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Speaker 2: pipeline or a transmission line or some energy project, you know,

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Speaker 2: you'd use the NIPA, use the EPA stuff to slow

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Speaker 2: a project down. But if you wanted to kill it,

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Speaker 2: then you used Environmental Species Act. The ESA became the

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Speaker 2: Hotel California. I asked the question when I got here, Well,

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Speaker 2: shouldn't we be celebrating when things come off the list

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Speaker 2: opposed to going on the list. And because we're you know,

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Speaker 2: we became a nation where people sell rated when things

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Speaker 2: went on the Endangered Species List and what to do

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Speaker 2: when they went on there, then we should be working

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Speaker 2: to make those things better. Ninety seven percent of the

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Speaker 2: species that have ever entered that list have never come off.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's if you're grading that on a scale of A

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Speaker 3: to F, that's like an F minus.

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Speaker 2: We've got if we're actually in the recovery business, we've

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Speaker 2: got to be able to get things coming off. That

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Speaker 2: means we're succeeding, and we should be able to get

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Speaker 2: things to come off without moving goalposts. So big progress

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Speaker 2: is going to be made on ESA. On the tribal front.

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Speaker 2: It's been one tribe after another in my office saying

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Speaker 2: that during the Biden administration, including the Alaska North Slope

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Speaker 2: of Alaska Natives up there saying we need energy development

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Speaker 2: for our economic basis, schools, healthcare. Ever so some we

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Speaker 2: have some big wins going on in tribal country as well.

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Speaker 1: That is a great quick summary, Secretary of Bergham, good

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Speaker 1: luck in twenty twenty six and we'll check in again.

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Speaker 1: That's that's quite a start. Thank you for joining.

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Speaker 3: One little time.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewett, joined by Congressman Michael Lawler.

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Speaker 1: Mike Lawler represents New York's seventeenth congressional district he won

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, he won in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: He's been on the program before. I get along with

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Speaker 1: him really well. I like him a lot, but I

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Speaker 1: think I'm going to have to support his Democratic opponent

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, and I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: him about that, and he was kind enough to come on. Congressman,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. I'm very upset about the discharge petition, and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about the merits. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about what you did to my party that

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Speaker 1: I've spent my life building, which has put all of

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Speaker 1: your colleagues in a terrible position. Why should I overlook that?

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Speaker 5: Well, respectfully, Hugh, this is a situation where Democrats shut

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Speaker 5: the government down for forty three days. They made the

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Speaker 5: issue of the enhanced Premium tax credit the quote unquote

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Speaker 5: reason for the shutdown, and as I did during the shutdown,

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Speaker 5: I went and exposed Leader Jeffries hypocrisy on that, showing

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Speaker 5: full well that really was not a the issue and

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Speaker 5: b they had no interest in solving it. When the

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Speaker 5: government reopened, we sat down a bipartisan group of us

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Speaker 5: to actually come.

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Speaker 6: Up with a plan to reform the system.

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Speaker 5: It would do a two year extension, but it would

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Speaker 5: actually start to make changes that conservatives have wanted to

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Speaker 5: make to Obamacare for years, income limits, insurance reforms, rooting

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Speaker 5: out fraud in the system, eliminating the zero premium plans,

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Speaker 5: and actually requiring a payment from the individual, PBM reform,

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Speaker 5: HSA expansion. We worked then the group of us that

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Speaker 5: on the Republican side worked with House Republican leadership to

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Speaker 5: force a vote. We wanted to put the bill on

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Speaker 5: the floor and frankly let the Democrats vote yay or nay.

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Speaker 5: I suspect was going to be that if there was

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Speaker 5: a zero premium plan elimination in there, most of the

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Speaker 5: Democrats would vote know and we worked through this. We

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Speaker 5: tried to get it to the floor. Ultimately, we could

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Speaker 5: not reach an agreement for various reasons. There was disagreement

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Speaker 5: within our conference on a few fronts.

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Speaker 4: But this is.

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Speaker 5: Something that I felt very strongly about, both from a

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Speaker 5: political standpoint but also from a policy standpoint.

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Speaker 6: Doing nothing was not a solution.

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Speaker 5: The fact is that for the seven percent of people

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Speaker 5: who rely on the enhanced Premium tax credit, they are

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Speaker 5: going to see an exponential spike, and we have been

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Speaker 5: pushing leadership for months to say, Okay, we need a

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Speaker 5: Republican plan. We need to address the issue of healthcare affordability.

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Speaker 5: It's not enough to just say Obamacare bad and we

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Speaker 5: hate Obamacare. We all know Obamacare doesn't work, and certainly

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Speaker 5: not the way Democrats said it would work in terms

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Speaker 5: of reducing costs. But we are in the majority, and

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Speaker 5: we have a responsibility to govern and to address these issues.

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Speaker 5: What I suspect with the discharge, what's going to happen

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Speaker 5: when we come back in January.

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Speaker 6: It'll pass the House, It'll go to the Senate.

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Speaker 3: Stop.

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Speaker 1: Stop. What will happen is all of the Republicans except

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Speaker 1: the four will vote against that discharge petition because it's

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Speaker 1: bad law. Am I right?

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Speaker 5: No? I think there will be more than the four

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Speaker 5: voting in favor of moving, not if I've got anything.

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Speaker 1: To do with it, because it is such a bad idea. God,

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Speaker 1: I just want to stand the discharge petition. I'll debate

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Speaker 1: Obamacare for three hours, but the discharge.

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Speaker 5: But nobody is defending the three year I said even

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Speaker 5: as recent as yesterday, the three year is not acceptable policy.

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Speaker 5: The problem is we need a VA to actually get

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Speaker 5: reforms done. If when the three year passes, the discharge

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Speaker 5: will be voted on on January sixth. When the three

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Speaker 5: year extension passes the House, the Senate will not pass that.

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Speaker 6: They've already shown they won't pass that. Okay, Lafon said.

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Speaker 1: That Congressmen, all due respect, it's not the Senate. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to filibuster. I'm focused on one thing, which is,

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Speaker 1: you threw a hand grenade into my party that I

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Speaker 1: spent my life defending. And two hundred and thirteen or

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Speaker 1: two hundred and twelve of them are going to have

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Speaker 1: to vote against what looks like it's a good idea,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to be an ad against all of them.

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Speaker 1: And if you can't get David Joyce, you can't get

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Speaker 1: the most reasonable guy in the House, and he's my

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Speaker 1: congressman from Ohio. If I were still living in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: You threw all your guys overboard a minute to the break,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll keep going.

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Speaker 5: Well, respectfully, many of my colleagues have actually thanked us

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Speaker 5: for doing it, because we need to have a vote

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Speaker 5: and actually advance bipartisan legislation that includes reforms to Obamacare.

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Speaker 6: So the fact is, Hugh this is my party too.

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Speaker 5: I've spent my career electing Republicans and Conservatives across this

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Speaker 5: country and in New York. But we have a responsibility

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Speaker 5: to govern and I'm not going to shirk in that

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Speaker 5: responsibility because there's a dispute within the House.

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Speaker 1: Pause for a moment, we'll go off and then we'll

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Speaker 1: come back on. Stay right there, Congressman. I'm back with

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Speaker 1: michae Lawler. Congressman. I supported you when you use your

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Speaker 1: leverage on the salt deduction. I understand your district. I

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Speaker 1: understand it's difficult. But when you sign a discharge petition

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Speaker 1: and the leadership says don't do it, you are exposing Kay,

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Speaker 1: at least get you to admit it's going to be

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Speaker 1: an ad in every marginal district in twenty twenty six

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Speaker 1: that they voted against extending Obamacare something. It'll be a lie,

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Speaker 1: but it will be an AD and they'll be voting

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Speaker 1: against them.

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Speaker 5: Well, the ads were already written about allowing it to expire.

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Speaker 5: And that's that's the fundamental problem. That's why I said

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Speaker 5: this is political malpractice not to have a solution to

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Speaker 5: this issue, coupled with the larger reforms that we passed

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Speaker 5: yesterday in the House that every Democrat voted against. I

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Speaker 5: voted for our Speaker's plan because we do want to

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Speaker 5: address the larger issue of healthcare.

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Speaker 6: But to just dismiss the seven percent and.

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Speaker 5: Say, oh, it's okay, their healthcare premiums can go up,

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Speaker 5: I'm not okay with that, and I know many.

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Speaker 1: Of my colleagues even it is dismissing.

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Speaker 5: It is you have to have you have to have

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Speaker 5: a plan, and you have to have a plan, and

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Speaker 5: we didn't have one in time with the expiration of

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Speaker 5: these premium tax credits. And by the way, we didn't

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Speaker 5: just raise this issue because Democrats raised it.

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Speaker 6: Members brought this up earlier this year in.

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Speaker 5: May when we were negotiating the One Big, Beautiful Bill.

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Speaker 5: We brought it up in September before the shutdown. This

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Speaker 5: was something that's been discussed within our conference for months,

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Speaker 5: and so it's not like people were shocked that this

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Speaker 5: was an issue we had to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Nobody it's the discharge petition. I'm really being focused here.

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Speaker 1: I'm being focused. I might agree with you. I've been

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Speaker 1: arguing for tax credits that are targeted for people or

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Speaker 1: two hundred percent of the poverty line and are stuck

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Speaker 1: in the state exchanges. There's a big debate to be had.

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of time to do it afterwards. But the

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Speaker 1: three year extension is bad law. It is inflationary law.

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Speaker 1: It will never pass. It's a complete show vote. And

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Speaker 1: what I'm really concerned, I don't even mind that. I

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Speaker 1: mind the fact that you probably cost seats to the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party because they have to vote on the discharge petition,

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Speaker 1: and it's like voting on an hand grenade.

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Speaker 6: I disagree with you.

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Speaker 5: Doing nothing will cost us seats and what we did,

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Speaker 5: and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on

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Speaker 5: the discharge. And many of my colleagues have signed discharge petitions,

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Speaker 5: especially in recent years, including on conservative issues. The discharge

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Speaker 5: arge petition is a tool of every member. It's not

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Speaker 5: just a tool of the minority. And sometimes, like we

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Speaker 5: saw back when John Bahner was Speaker and the far

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Speaker 5: right did not want the XM Bank to move forward,

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Speaker 5: John Bahner did the wink in the nod and said,

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Speaker 5: go sign the discharge so we can move the bill.

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Speaker 7: And I do not.

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Speaker 1: Object to the discharge, So I object, that's philibout. I

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Speaker 1: object to this one at this time, when the country

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Speaker 1: believes that the Obamacare three year extension has a prayer,

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Speaker 1: and you have already admitted it doesn't have a prayer.

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Speaker 1: It will never pass.

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Speaker 6: I've said, I've said it will not pass.

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Speaker 5: But we needed a vehicle, okay, to get an actual

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Speaker 5: bill passed. And so what's going to happen. The three

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Speaker 5: year will pass the House. The Senate will not pass it.

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Speaker 5: They've already voted it down. They did it last week

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Speaker 5: when Chuck Schumer brought it up, and I slam Schumer

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Speaker 5: for just doing a hyper partisan three year bill. I

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Speaker 5: slam Leader Jeffries for just doing the hyper partisan three

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Speaker 5: year bill and not supporting the compromise bill that we negotiated.

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Speaker 6: But we needed a vehicle that could get.

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Speaker 1: The compromise bill could actually have I'll come back on

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Speaker 1: the other side. The compromise bill did pass, did it not?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did pass what the compromise bill? The House

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Speaker 1: bill did pass.

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Speaker 4: It's beginning to go up like Christmas, Welcome back to America.

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Speaker 1: Friends can disagree, and sometimes they have falling outs, and

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Speaker 1: I'm having them with Michael Lawler because we're talking past

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Speaker 1: each other. Congressman the GOP healthcare plan in the House

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Speaker 1: did pass? Did it not?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry, Yes, the GOP plan that we put forward.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So there is a vehicle that we go to

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Speaker 1: the Senate that that vehicle will not get sixty votes.

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Speaker 1: So if there's going to be a resolution, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be done in the Senate, because the House can't

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Speaker 1: do anything, but this can do anything by majority. But

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Speaker 1: it takes sixty votes in the Senate. So you didn't

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Speaker 1: need to sign the discharge bill to get a vehicle.

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Speaker 1: You're making a facetious argument. You did that. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why you did it. I think you're smart, you

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Speaker 1: know what you're doing. You've used leverage before. Why would

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Speaker 1: you put your members, your colleagues, your friends, the party

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Speaker 1: in the peril that you did, And why shouldn't I

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Speaker 1: be this pissed off?

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Speaker 5: I disagree with you about us putting our majority in peril,

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Speaker 5: doing nothing on the issue that Democrats weaponized during the

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Speaker 5: shutdown and that the media has tried to explain to

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Speaker 5: voters is the reason their healthcare premiums are going up,

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Speaker 5: when you and I both know Obamacare itself is the

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Speaker 5: reason it has failed to actually reduce cost. But doing

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Speaker 5: nothing on this was the wrong decision, and we had

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Speaker 5: an internal battle over this, and four of us signed

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Speaker 5: the discharge. But I'm telling you there are a lot

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Speaker 5: more A that we're willing to sign it and B

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Speaker 5: that want something done on this, and so we are

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Speaker 5: going to get a resolution come January and force a

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Speaker 5: vote so that we can actually get a compromise bill.

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Speaker 1: You could repay. Hey, I want to go through your

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Speaker 1: objection doing nothing. The Republicans didn't do nothing. They passed

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Speaker 1: an alternative, and as we just let the audience know,

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Speaker 1: it passed number two.

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Speaker 5: That you just pointed out that you just pointed out

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Speaker 5: is not going to become law because it won't get

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Speaker 5: the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Like the discharge petition. So we have something to put

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Speaker 1: in the Dessendate's lap so that they can begin the negotiation.

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Speaker 1: That didn't have to be the discharge petition. But as

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Speaker 1: you just pointed out, the media has been framing this

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Speaker 1: to hurt Republicans because the media is left wing. You

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Speaker 1: fed into that narrative, and no matter how many people

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Speaker 1: came up and wishard, do you will you to go, Mike,

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Speaker 1: four of you signed it, four of you sent it

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Speaker 1: to the floor, and it's going to force a vote

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Speaker 1: where two hundred and fourteen Republicans are going to have

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Speaker 1: to say no. Maybe it'll be two hundred twelve, and

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Speaker 1: that because of the media that we just discussed is

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Speaker 1: going to be the ad that sinks them. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you can walk away from the car

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Speaker 1: crash when you were driving and saying I got nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with that, than what me?

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Speaker 5: Again, We're just going to disagree because the reality is

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Speaker 5: the ads were already written about the expiration of the

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Speaker 5: tax credit.

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Speaker 6: We are seeking to do a two pronged solution.

439
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 5: Number one having an answer on the enhanced Premium tax

440
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 5: credit with reforms number two addressing the larger issues within

441
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 5: the healthcare system, which you and I are in full agreement,

442
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 5: is a broken system. Under Obamacare, healthcare premiums have risen

443
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 5: ninety six percent and meanwhile insurance profits are up over

444
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 5: two thousand percent. Because Obamacare was written by the insurance

445
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 5: companies for the insurance companies.

446
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 6: That system needs to be reformed.

447
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 5: And we have a plan that actually will are to

448
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 5: reform the system, and that's what we're seeking to get

449
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 5: across the finish line.

450
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: You have two question making.

451
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: I got two questions before I run out of time. One,

452
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: can you take your name off the discharge petition?

453
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 5: No, it's already active, it's two hundred and eighteen.

454
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: Will you you can, however, apologize for it and reconsider

455
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: and say I made a mistake. Will you think about

456
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: doing that between now and January so that you vote

457
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: against the petition you forced onto the floor.

458
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 5: Look, I am comfortable with my decision and the decision

459
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 5: I made. I didn't make it lightly, and I made

460
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 5: it after exhausting every single option we had before us.

461
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 5: Within our House Republican Conference, we worked tirelessly to get

462
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 5: a deal with leadership, and unfortunately, as the Speaker said,

463
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 5: we just couldn't, you know, solve this Rubik's cube. There

464
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 5: were a lot of reasons why, and ultimately this is

465
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 5: the decision I made.

466
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: So, Congressman, did you or did you not win on

467
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: the salt cap? You won on the salt cap?

468
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 6: We did.

469
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the party has been good for you. The

470
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: party did what you needed done. The party broke Mark.

471
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: Mike Lawler got what he needed. So I'm listening to

472
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: an ungrateful guy in a marginal district who wants the

473
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: NRC seat to support him and people like me to

474
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: do it, and you're ungrateful. I really, I'm just curious

475
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: that you did this. Do you understand that?

476
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 6: Respectfully? Yeah, respectfully, Hugh, I'm not ungrateful in the least.

477
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 6: But I know this.

478
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 5: My seat is one of only three seats in the

479
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 5: country that Kamala Harris won that a Republican represents. We're

480
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 5: at two hundred and twenty. If we lose those seats,

481
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 5: we're out of the majority.

482
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 6: It's that simple.

483
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 5: And I am fighting to represent my district, to represent

484
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 5: Mike stituents, and to give us the majority and keep

485
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 5: Speaker Johnson in the Speaker's chair and keep the gabbles.

486
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 6: So it's not about being ungrateful, all right.

487
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 5: I've eaten a lot of votes this year on things

488
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 5: that I don't necessarily agree with. There's people on the

489
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 5: other side of the conference that have eaten votes on

490
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 5: salt that they don't necessarily agree with. That's what happens

491
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 5: when you have a small majority. Everybody's got a give

492
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 5: and take.

493
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: Do you listen when you're out in the district. If

494
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: enough people come up to you and say I heard

495
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: the Hewitt and Hewitt's right, and you should apologize and

496
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: vote against your discharge of petition. Will you listen to them?

497
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: Because I think you're a smart guy who made a

498
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: mistake and that shouldn't end your career. You should win.

499
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: But there are people like me who are just going

500
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: to say you are more trouble than your worth. Will

501
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: win the majority somewhere else, because if you stab me

502
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: in the back, you'll stab me in the front. And

503
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: this was a real backstab Mike.

504
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, che Number One, I do listen to my consents.

505
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: I'm out every single day meeting with constituents. When I'm

506
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 5: not in DC, I do dozens of events, you know,

507
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 5: every week in my district, So I talk to everybody

508
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 5: across the spectrum.

509
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 6: Number two, I'm very blunt and direct. I don't I

510
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 6: don't hide.

511
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 3: I don't.

512
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: I'm not being don't. I'm not being very subtle here.

513
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 5: Either, but no, but my point is I'm not backstabbing anybody.

514
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 5: I was very clear with the speaker what was going

515
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 5: to happen if we couldn't figure this out, and so there.

516
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 6: Was no backstabbing. It was straightforward.

517
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 5: And I and I've owned my decision and I've explained it,

518
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 5: and people are have every right to disagree with it,

519
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 5: but it's not backstabbing.

520
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 6: It's very straightforward.

521
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to pray for a Christmas miracle. I

522
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: know you're Catholic. Maybe on midnight Mass you realize you

523
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: should apologize for this. I hope so. Mike, by the way,

524
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. You knew it was going

525
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: to be a rough, rough going. I appreciate that you

526
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: found the time to do it. I'm Merry Christmas to you, Congressman.

527
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: Taught to you in New Year is so delightful and

528
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: since welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewett, joined by

529
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: Charles C. W. Cook, Senior editor at National Review, host

530
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: of the Charles cw Podcast, also a frequent contributor to

531
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: The Editors Podcast. Charles, I've got to press you into

532
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: servers today because we've got eight gallons to get into

533
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: a three gallons show. Secretary of Rubio gave a press

534
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: conference day looking back over the year. So I'm going

535
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: to play you some clips and have you comment on

536
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: Secretary of Rubio without benefit of my two cents so

537
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: that we can get through them. Here's cut number two

538
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: of the Secretary of State.

539
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 8: When it comes to the Western Hemisphere.

540
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 9: The single most serious threat to the United States from

541
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 9: the Western Hemisphere is from transnational terrorist criminal groups primarily

542
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 9: focused on narco trafficking, but they're in all sides businesses

543
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 9: as well. So the good news is we have a

544
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 9: lot of countries in the region that openly cooperate and

545
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 9: work with us to confront these challenges. Mexico, their level

546
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 9: of cooperation with US is the highest it's ever been

547
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 9: in their history. Throughout Central America for the most part,

548
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 9: except for maybe Nicaragua and to some extent, Honduras, we've

549
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 9: had great cooperation from Ecuador, from El Salvador, from Ecuador

550
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 9: being in South America, but across the Pacific coast world

551
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 9: so undertaking efforts Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama. These are all

552
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 9: nations that cooperate with us openly in search of stability

553
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 9: in the region. You moved to the Caribbean Basin, in Trinidad,

554
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 9: in Guyana, in Jamaica, and the Dominican Republic.

555
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: Right is he right to paint sho rosia picture, Charles.

556
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 5: Well?

557
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 10: I think so.

558
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 7: We have a tendency to look beyond our immediate neighborhood. Obviously,

559
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 7: that wasn't always the case, the Monroe doctri put that

560
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 7: as the number one priority of our foreign policy.

561
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 10: I don't know what he says next. That's the problem.

562
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 7: I mean, if he goes on to say but and

563
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 7: then to list all of the problems that we have,

564
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 7: then I think it will be balanced. But there is

565
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 7: a lot of good.

566
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go to next cut number five.

567
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 9: So when I say these things about Maduro and his

568
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 9: role in narco trafficking, it's not I hear as the reports.

569
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 8: Marco Ruveal says.

570
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: That it's not me.

571
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 9: A grand jury in New York, in the Southern District

572
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 9: of New York, Okay, a grand jury in the Southern

573
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 9: District of New York was presented evidence and came back

574
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 9: with an indictment not just against Maduro, by the way,

575
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 9: but against a bunch of people in his government for

576
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 9: narco trafficking. A bunch he had, you know, his nephews

577
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 9: or the nephews of his wife and died it. Convicted

578
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 9: in the United States for narco trafficking. Like this was

579
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 9: until President Trump started doing something about these narco trafficking

580
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 9: linking links. Nobody disputed that Maduro and his regime was

581
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 9: in cahoots with narco traffickers, not to mention the fact

582
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 9: that they unleashed trained at Agua gangs on the United States.

583
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 9: They've unleashed, you know, a mass migration event, perhaps.

584
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 8: The largest in history.

585
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 9: Eight million people have left Venezuela since twenty fourteen. So

586
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 9: also destabilizing all the countries in the region who have

587
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 9: had to ass people that are fleeing this this this

588
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 9: illegitimate regime. So but nobody disputed the drug links. So

589
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 9: that's what the president has been focused on, and that's

590
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 9: the problem. That's the problem in Venezuela.

591
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: What do you think of that, Charlie Cook?

592
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 10: So, I think everything he said there was correct.

593
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 7: What I have a slight problem with is the jump

594
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 7: that is made which turns narco traffickers into narco terrorists

595
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 7: or proposes that we are in some sense at war

596
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 7: with Venezuela. But it's obviously true, that's a huge problem.

597
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 7: That country is unstable, it's not anymore if it ever

598
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 7: was a proper democracy, and the export of drugs into

599
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 7: the United States is a proper concern of the federal government.

600
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 7: So I agree with pretty much everything he said. I'm

601
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 7: just sometimes not on board with it, and then's.

602
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: The and then in this case is the embargo or

603
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: quarantine of the ghost fleet. I am one hundred percent

604
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: in favor of that, are you.

605
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 7: Well, I think we need some congressional authorization for it.

606
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 7: I don't object to it, person say, I just think

607
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 7: we will to be careful with our terms. As I say,

608
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 7: I don't think that the problems that are being posed

609
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 7: by Venezuela are terrorism. I think the problem is we

610
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 7: have an unstable anti American regime very close to our

611
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 7: borders that sends drugs into the United States, which we

612
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 7: don't want them to.

613
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: So I'm mostly with you, yeah, and I don't think

614
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: we need congressional authorization. Back to nineteen ninety, we were

615
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: siving Saddam's tankers after the invasion of Kuwait and there

616
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: was no AUFM there. Let's go to his statement on

617
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: Ukraine and Russia Cut number four.

618
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 9: The reason why this war hasn't ended, and that is

619
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 9: because there's complex factors at play. I know that sounds

620
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 9: like a throwaway line, but it's true what we have

621
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 9: tried to do in this entire process. And let's be

622
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 9: clear about this. I mean the United States is engaged

623
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 9: in this. It's the President says this, and I'll translate

624
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 9: what I think you know he's trying to say to

625
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 9: you and all of this, and I think he has been

626
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 9: pretty clear about it is it's not our war in

627
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 9: another continent. We have equities, we have engagement in this war,

628
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 9: but it's not our war per se.

629
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 8: But we have been told by everybody.

630
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 9: I think everybody would agree that there's only one nation

631
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 9: on earth. There's only one entity on earth that can

632
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 9: actually talk to both sides and figure out whether there's

633
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 9: a way to end this war peacefully, and that's the

634
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 9: United States. And we've invested a lot of time, a

635
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 9: lot of energy at the highest levels of our government.

636
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 9: I believe you know, President Trump has had more meetings

637
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 9: with foreign leaders and others on the war in Ukraine

638
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 9: than on any other subject.

639
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: Including wire there. We'll play the rest of the quote

640
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: during the break, Charles will talk about it. We'll come

641
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: back after the break and talk about the most controversial thing.

642
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: Stay tuned in America. I'm quis Fortunes is a huge

643
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: US show.

644
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: Were brought to you in part by conservatives for lower

645
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: healthcare costs.

646
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: All right, let's finish the quote from Marco Rubio, where

647
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: we pausitive.

648
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 9: Please, Steve and Jared have invested time. I've invested time.

649
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 9: The Vice President, the Secretary of War, others, Secretary of Treasury,

650
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 9: and more have invested a tremendous amount of time and

651
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 9: energy in this. And what we're trying to figure out

652
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 9: here is what can Ukraine live.

653
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 8: With and what can Russia live with?

654
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 9: Sort of identify what both sides positions are and see

655
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 9: if we can sort of drive them towards each other

656
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 9: to some agreement. War's end generally in one of two ways,

657
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 9: surrender by one side for another, or a negotiated settlement.

658
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 9: We don't see surrender any time in the near future

659
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 9: by either side, and so only a negotiated settlement gives

660
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 9: us the opportunity to end this war. A negotiated settlement

661
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 9: requires two things, both sites to get something out of

662
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 9: it and both sites to give something. And we're trying

663
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 9: to figure out what can Russia give and what do

664
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 9: they expect to get. What can we Ukraine get and

665
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 9: what can Ukraine expect to get. In the end, the

666
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 9: decision will be up to Ukraine and up to Russia,

667
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 9: will not be up to the United States. So that's

668
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 9: the role we are trying to play in this, and

669
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 9: that's why you see so many meetings going on. This

670
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 9: is not about imposing a deal on anybody. It is

671
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 9: about determining what both sides expect and need to have,

672
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 9: and what both sides are prepared to give in return

673
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 9: for it, and figuring out whether we can have those

674
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 9: two overlap.

675
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 8: And of course that takes a lot of time and

676
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 8: a lot of hard work.

677
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 9: It can't generally be done in the media are in

678
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 9: press conferences. I think we've made progress, but we have

679
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 9: ways to go, and obviously the hardest issues are opened.

680
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: Charles, what do you make of that statement? That framing

681
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: of what has happened over the past year.

682
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 7: So I think Mark Rubia is very impressive. I also

683
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 7: am aware that he's the Secretary of State in an administration,

684
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 7: is not the President of the United States, and what

685
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 7: he's doing there is reciting Donald Trump's position on it,

686
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 7: which is more cuivocal than mine would be.

687
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 10: Now, Ukraine is complicated.

688
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 7: I do think there's some oversimplification of the matter, especially

689
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 7: among Democrats, but I am still slightly uncomfortable with the

690
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 7: way that this has discussed. I do think we have

691
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 7: more of a vested interest in this than Rubio suggest

692
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 7: did there. I would suggest that Marco Rubiya thinks so

693
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 7: as well. It's not his role to say so. He

694
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 7: works for the president, but he is right when he

695
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 7: says that if we are not going to take that position,

696
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 7: then we're going to end this with a normal political

697
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 7: style negotiation and what each side can live with, rather

698
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 7: than a more principled position.

699
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: In the part that you think is oversimplified, what do

700
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: you say about the Crimean Peninsula which was traditionally part

701
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: of Russia. The Crimean War was between Britain and Russia

702
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: and other people. What do you make about the Crimea

703
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: in this conversation.

704
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 7: Well, I'm not sure it has to be part of

705
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 7: this conversation. I think that the whole question of geography

706
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 7: in that ERAa is difficult. But the change here was

707
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 7: made in February twenty twenty two when Russia went into Ukraine.

708
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 7: The next country over from Ukraine is Poland. Now I'm

709
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 7: not of the view that Russia is necessarily going to

710
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 7: run across you Kraine into Poland, and I don't think

711
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 7: it can run across Ukraine as we've seen. But to me,

712
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 7: the Crimean question is more abstract to the United States

713
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 7: than Ukraine is because Ukraine is next to a country

714
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 7: that has been the source of a huge amount of

715
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 7: conflict that is direct the United States and over the

716
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 7: last hundred years. So I don't I'm not suggesting you

717
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 7: thing otherwise, but sometimes I hear that a question asked

718
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 7: as if it's like, well, that's complicated, then shouldn't Ukraine

719
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 7: be complicated?

720
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 10: And I'm just not sure those two things happen.

721
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: No, I agree with you completely. If some parts through

722
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: these are easy, and then you get closer to Poland,

723
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: it gets very very top and we do not want

724
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: to give up the fortress barrier that Ukraine has given

725
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: or obliged them to stand by. We're coming back on

726
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: the network with one more cut for Charles C. W.

727
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 10: Cook.

728
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 1: Welcome back America. I'm here, Hewett with Charles CW. Cook

729
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: of National Review and the Charles C. W. Cook Podcast.

730
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: Charles here. Secretary straight Rubio on Hamash in Israel. Cut

731
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: number three.

732
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 9: Let me just couch it to you this way. Everyone

733
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 9: wants peace. No one wants to return to a war.

734
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 9: If Hamas is ever in a position in the future

735
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 9: that they can threaten or attack.

736
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 8: Israel, You're not going to have peace.

737
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 9: You're not going to convince anyone to invest money in

738
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 9: Gaza if they believe another war is going to happen.

739
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 8: In two three years.

740
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 9: So I would just ask everyone to focus on what

741
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 9: are the kind of weaponrries and capabilities that Hamas would

742
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 9: need in order to threaten or attack Israel as a

743
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 9: baseline for what disarmament needs to look like, because you're

744
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 9: not going to have peace if two years from now

745
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 9: Hamas is launching rockets or killing Israelis, are carrying out

746
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 9: God forbid, another seventh of October type terrorist attack and

747
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 9: so forth, you're not going to have peace. So who's

748
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 9: going to invest in a peace? Who's going to invest

749
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 9: in rebuilding a place is going to get destroyed again

750
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 9: in the future war. So that's why disarmament is so critical. Now,

751
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 9: what that entails, We're going to leave that to the

752
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 9: technical teams to work on. It would have to be

753
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 9: something obviously that they're willing to agree to that our

754
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 9: partners can push them and pressure them to agree to.

755
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 8: It also has to be something that Israel agrees to.

756
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 9: In order for that to work, both sides have to

757
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 9: on it, and we need the space to do it.

758
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 8: But that's the way to think about it.

759
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 9: Okay, you cannot have a Hamas that can threatn Israel

760
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 9: in the future.

761
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 8: If they can, you won't have peace.

762
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: I think that is well put, perhaps as clearly as

763
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: anyone has put it.

764
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 7: What do you think, Charles, I think that I was

765
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 7: sitting nodding along. You couldn't see it, but I was

766
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 7: sitting nodding along. That's exactly what I think as well.

767
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 7: I think he put it absolutely perfectly. And I always

768
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 7: say to people who ask about this, if the country

769
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 7: involved were not Israel and the threat were not from Gaza,

770
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 7: if instead the country involved with the United States and

771
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 7: the threat we was from Canada, it would be extremely

772
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 7: obvious to you why the United States were taking that position.

773
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 10: And I think we.

774
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 7: Underscored that perfectly. You cannot have peace. It is a

775
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 7: false piece while that threat hangs over.

776
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: So setting aside tear up discussions which are endless on

777
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 1: the national view of the editors, because Philip In says

778
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: that they be brought up as to you, why do

779
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: you grade the first year?

780
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 7: Well, where I mean, are we doing foreign policy? We're

781
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 7: doing a generally do it at all overview? Well, Okay,

782
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 7: I think the foreign policy has been largely good. I

783
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 7: don't like the way that Trump talks about foreign dictators sometimes,

784
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 7: or how he sometimes talks about Vladimir Putin. I don't

785
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 7: think he's a Russian asset or only of that nonsense,

786
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 7: but I would rather a more forthright defense of the West.

787
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 7: But generally speaking, I'll give him a bee there. I

788
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 7: think he has made big mistakes on the economy. He's

789
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 7: done some good things. The tax bill is very good,

790
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 7: but I think tariffs have overshadowed it, and he hasn't

791
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 7: got the cost of living under control, and he's in

792
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 7: trouble in the polling because of that, may lose the

793
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 7: midterms over it.

794
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 10: So I'm going to give him a c there.

795
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 7: Also, because while the tax bill was good, it largely

796
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 7: maintained the status quo. I think I'll give him an

797
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 7: a on the border, which he got under control within

798
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 7: a couple of months.

799
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 10: Perhaps even quicker people have forgotten this.

800
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 7: This is bad for Trump at one level because now

801
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 7: that that issue is solved, people are asking what did

802
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 7: you do for me lately? But we shouldn't forget what

803
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 7: an undertaking that was. And then when it comes to

804
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 7: some of the executive orders, the dismantling of racial preferences,

805
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 7: and some of the DEI material that had been invested

806
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 7: in the federal government.

807
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 10: I'm thrilled by that. So I'm going to give him

808
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 10: an A.

809
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 7: And the latest, of course was the backtracking away from

810
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 7: so called disparate impact, so I'll give him an a

811
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 7: there as well.

812
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 10: And then on his personal conduct, I'm.

813
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 7: Going to give him a F because I just think

814
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 7: that he's his worst own worst enemy, and he is

815
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 7: totally out of control sometimes and it just hurts him

816
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 7: in the movement.

817
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 1: Well, check in on. That's a pretty good report card,

818
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: division and I appreciate your running through it. Charles. I

819
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: will talk to you, if not next week in the

820
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: new year. Thank you so much for joining me today.

821
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: I like someone who can go through all those different

822
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: issues and be coherent. Charles CW. Cook on X follow up,

823
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: follow me to the next segment, and even Grace America.

824
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: I'm to Hewett, joined by Ben domin H. Ben is

825
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: editor at large at The Spectator, Fox News contributor owner

826
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: of the transom over at Substack. Ben, I got a

827
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: big topic for you today, started by the Big Ben

828
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: podcast this week, which featured Robbie Starbuck. I don't know

829
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: who he is, and I listened to him and first

830
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: of all tell us who he is.

831
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 11: Well.

832
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 4: Robbie Starbuck is an interesting cap because it's rare you

833
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 4: have somebody who's influential and conservative politics, who also is

834
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 4: famous for having directed the music videos of groups like

835
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 4: the Smashing Pumpkins, and he has directed in various music

836
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 4: videos Natalie Portman and Jamie Fox and people like that.

837
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 4: He became more conservative while he was in California. He's

838
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 4: someone who has a Cuban background and as such, you know,

839
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 4: was already pretty anti communist and became someone who was

840
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: essentially the tip of the sphere when it came to

841
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: identifying DDI programs within major corporate institutions in America. He

842
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: drove the likes of JP Morgan and Nike and a

843
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 4: number of other institutions absolutely nuts by revealing the internal

844
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 4: documents that they had leaked to him by various folks

845
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 4: inside these entities that detailed DEI practices that were quite

846
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 4: frankly illegal. I mean, you know, things that were most

847
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 4: biased on race. And at the center of this, you know,

848
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 4: he became someone who was feared by corporate America at

849
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 4: the point that, you know, I literally have had so

850
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 4: many people over the past couple of years say do

851
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 4: you have an in with Robbie Starbuck. We're worried he's

852
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: going to come after you know this, that or the

853
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 4: other client, And I'm like, go with god, you know,

854
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 4: I'm s well.

855
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: It was a great conversation, and I was going to

856
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: add him to my list. I've just posted on x

857
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: a list of influencers, people to whose influence you ought

858
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: to be open, not necessary agree. There's some people on

859
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: there I disagree with, but they make arguments. A couple

860
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: of reporters, a couple of producers, a couple of people

861
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, but mostly people who make arguments. I

862
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: didn't put them on there for a simple reason. I

863
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: want your reaction to this in your conversation. At one point,

864
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: he went off on a jag denouncing Congress for doing

865
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: too little, and he didn't appear to me to know

866
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: that you need sixty votes to move legislation in the

867
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: Congress in the Senate, and if you don't know that,

868
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: you're going to have unrealistic expectations about what the Congress

869
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: can do. Does that not trip your wire?

870
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 4: Well, it trips my wire. A little bit. But I

871
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 4: also think that one of the things that we know

872
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: should be cognitive of is that a lot of times

873
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 4: in these conversations, people will will extend out, perhaps beyond

874
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: what is what is feasible within the reality of the situation,

875
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 4: as opposed to what their ambitions would be like one

876
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 4: Ted Cruz, so I respect very much ran into that

877
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: a little bit back when he's started out in the

878
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: United States. But one of the things that I think

879
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 4: is key to UH to appreciate at this moment is

880
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,479
Speaker 4: that there actually are a lot of a a I think,

881
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 4: an impressive number of younger voices that exist on the

882
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 4: American right broadly speaking. And this is one of the

883
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: reasons why that whole idea that you had to entertain

884
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 4: the likes of Nick Fuentez or something like that in

885
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 4: order to reach younger people always struck me as ridiculous.

886
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 4: It's because we actually have a surplus, if anything, of

887
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 4: younger voices who are very interesting on the right. They

888
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: don't agree about everything, they have different backgrounds, they have

889
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 4: you know, you've got your your homeschoolers, you've got your neocons,

890
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 4: you've got your you know, people who were you know,

891
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: in actual soldiers in the War on Terror. We have

892
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 4: differences of opinion on either side of it. You know,

893
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 4: you have people who have been through the elite institutions

894
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 4: and want to retake them, and you have people who

895
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 4: want to burn them to the ground. And those are

896
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 4: all things that I think are healthy to have as

897
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: a debate within the big tent of the right. And

898
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 4: it's something that quite frankly, did not exist at least

899
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 4: when I was coming up, as something that was more apparent.

900
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 4: But now you've got a lot of people who are

901
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 4: in there there, you know, later twenties to sort of

902
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: mid forties, who I would say have enough experience to

903
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 4: be informed practitioners of the realm of politics and in

904
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 4: the realm of policy, and people who actually, you know,

905
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 4: aren't just shooting from the hip. And that's something that

906
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 4: I think is very healthy and a very beneficial thing

907
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: because for a lot of us, you know, who started

908
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 4: out on this in the early two thousands, there was

909
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 4: far less of a of a gross campaign for younger

910
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 4: Americans to get into this system, unless their attitude was

911
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 4: more just climbing through the ranks in order to achieve

912
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 4: power for power's sake.

913
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: Now what I wanted to ask you about is being

914
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: influenced or being an influencer. That's a new term, right.

915
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: There are a few grand old voices in the movement.

916
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: Whenever I'm on a panel with Britt Hume, I just

917
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: want to look at Brett barn say, I yield my time,

918
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: mister speaker to Brit Hume. And there's George Will and

919
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: there are a few people like that. And then the

920
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: boomers are rolling off. In the next five to ten years,

921
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: we're all going to be retired. And then we got

922
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: a pretty good healthy ranking from fifty to seventy. I

923
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 1: mean people will be moving up. There are a lot

924
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: of good voices, but under forty five it gets weird

925
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: because they grew up in a different world, ben one

926
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: where you didn't read a lot of books, where you

927
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: didn't have to read a Battle Cry of Freedom by

928
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: James McPherson to understand the Civil War. You might have

929
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: an opinion or two, but I mean you had to

930
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: do a lot of work. Do you think that forty

931
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: five and under group are going to be ready for

932
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: the debates that are coming. I do.

933
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 4: And one of the reasons that I think that is

934
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 4: because of the number of organizations that exist. He helped

935
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 4: them along. And I don't just mean the ones that

936
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 4: are most prominent institutions like Turning Point alike, but there

937
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 4: are a number of organizations that I think came out

938
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 4: of the benefits of the nineteen eighties and the success

939
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 4: of the Reagan Revolution that have led to people having

940
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 4: the opportunity to study more if they were interested in.

941
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: The fellowships that are on offer are significant. The people

942
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 4: who are there and ready to help you along and

943
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 4: to give you advice about what to read and look.

944
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 4: You are correct, You can get those gigs, You can

945
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 4: get that impromature that from you know, a lot of

946
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 4: different institutions without having done the necessary work. And I

947
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 4: think though, in time, that reveals itself, and it reveals itself

948
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: in the form of people who you know, are frankly

949
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 4: not ready for those types of debates. This is the

950
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 4: other thing that I want you to appreciate. You though,

951
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 4: I think we really owe a debt to the Reagan

952
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 4: generation of people, and I would include, you know, not

953
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: just the work of of people who have surrounded you,

954
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 4: but you know, I think of someone like Laura Ingram,

955
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 4: who I was reading and paying attention to when I

956
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 4: was when I was very young, who now, you know?

957
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 4: I mean, I was on her show last night and

958
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 4: I was talking about Erica Kirk, who's younger than me,

959
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 4: you know, and the leadership that she is representing. There

960
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 4: is a continuum here that I think is really important,

961
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 4: and it has helped the ideological health of the right

962
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 4: and the way that I think the ideological side of

963
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 4: the left has crushed any ability to disagree. The people

964
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: who are disagreeing on the left, they're doing it from

965
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: an outside position that is socialist, that really wants to

966
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 4: demolish our institutions in a negative way, to views the

967
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 4: United States as a sinful, craven, horrible place that needs

968
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 4: to be upended, turned around, and turned upside down in

969
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 4: order to advance. And the reason that that happened is

970
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 4: because they didn't cultivate any kind of ideological disagreement. They

971
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 4: only have the kind of iliberal established and Ezra Klein's Madiclasius,

972
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 4: you know, podsave America, bros at the top, and nobody

973
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 4: else could really contend with them. And so what happens

974
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 4: you have a whole diaspora of people underneath Bernie Sanders

975
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 4: who emerge and who frankly, you know, don't share any

976
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 4: of the American values that even the left, you know,

977
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 4: has purported to share at various points. If you rewind

978
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 4: even as you know, even twenty years ago, you could

979
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 4: find a lot of things in common with a lot

980
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 4: of mainstream Democrats, even you know, moderate centrist Democrats. And

981
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 4: I mean that in a true way, not a fanciful way.

982
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 4: And yet today the moderate centrist Democrats are just people

983
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 4: who maybe don't talk as much about transitions.

984
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it's destroyed. Their party has shifted to

985
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: the left now in the Reagan years, since you bring

986
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: them up. I was a kid in the briefcase carrier

987
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: in the White House Council's office, but they made a

988
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: conscious effort to credential young people. Do you think that

989
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: Trump and administration is doing that?

990
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 4: So I believe that one of the big mistakes of

991
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 4: the first go rounds with the Trump administration is that

992
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 4: they did not do that, that they did not do

993
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 4: a good job of cultivating younger people. I think this

994
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 4: one second time around is doing a better job, in

995
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 4: part because they hired as many gen xers as they

996
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 4: did within this cabinet who are mindful of the future

997
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 4: and who are trying to bring up young people and

998
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 4: help them get credentials. We do not want a situation

999
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 4: where we have people who are thirty years removed from,

1000
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 4: you know, having been sitting at important desks, you know,

1001
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 4: back in control again. You want to have a situation

1002
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 4: where you've cultivated people who've learned both from the good

1003
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 4: and the bad of bad past decisions, and who can

1004
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: bring that knowledge to bear when it comes to the

1005
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 4: challenges of the future. I think, particularly of China and

1006
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 4: the challenges that it represents, we don't want to have

1007
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 4: necessarily the same approach that we had, you know, twenty

1008
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 4: five thirty years ago, with people who have great credentials

1009
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 4: but also believed that we could bring China via most

1010
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 4: favored nations that us into the broader world in a

1011
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 4: way that turned out not to be the case. And

1012
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 4: so look, I believe we have a great variety of people.

1013
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 4: We have more libertarians, we have more populists, we have

1014
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 4: more people who didn't come up through the traditional era.

1015
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 4: We have people who love William F. Buckley and people

1016
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 4: who laugh at the invocation of williamath Buckley. And that's

1017
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 4: the kind of thing that I think is actually healthy

1018
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 4: we can have the very debate.

1019
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: Ben's going to stay here during the break, you'll be

1020
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: back on the other side. We'll talk about tpusay's gathering,

1021
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: Erica Kirks endorsement, and jd Vance and a lot more.

1022
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. I'm here doing back now with Ben Dominic. Ben,

1023
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 1: I want to play for you what Erica Kirk said

1024
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: today at tpusay's gathering in Phoenix. Cut number one.

1025
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 12: We're going to ensure that President Trump has Congress for

1026
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 12: all four years. We are going to get my husband's

1027
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 12: friend jd Vance elected for forty eight and the most

1028
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 12: resounding was possible.

1029
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: All right now, Ben, I have nothing but admiration for

1030
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 1: eric at Kirk. I don't know her. I knew Charlie

1031
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: is a colleague and a text friend and a couple

1032
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: of events, but not a good friend. This was a

1033
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: mistake in my view, because.

1034
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 4: I'm glad that you said that, because I was sitting live.

1035
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 4: I was sitting waiting to go live with Laura Ingram

1036
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 4: last night in a van and I heard her say this,

1037
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 4: and I creighed a little bit. I'm glad that you

1038
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 4: agree with me, but I'd love to hear why.

1039
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 1: Well, because it's a long time to twenty twenty eight.

1040
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: Many things can happen, and if other people get in,

1041
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: the people who might be thinking about doing running for

1042
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: it against Jade Vans are not going to support TPUSA.

1043
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 3: Right.

1044
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: It's why I never endorse anyone. I want to do

1045
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 1: the debates. I want to be fair to everyone. And

1046
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: can you actually go to TPUSA. Now, if you're thinking

1047
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: about this and not get submarine?

1048
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 4: Why would we adopt a college football playoff attitude when

1049
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 4: we could have an l playoff attitude. That's my that's

1050
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 4: my perspective, you you know, Like, look, you know, I

1051
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: love a lot of these teams, but I'd like to

1052
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 4: see the Packers and the Bears go at it and

1053
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 4: see who comes back, you know. And so it's the

1054
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: kind of thing where when it comes to JD. Look,

1055
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 4: we've talked about how much we respect JD personally. I

1056
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 4: think he's the best vice president that we've had, you know,

1057
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 4: the best you know, sort of relationship that he's had

1058
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 4: with the principle since we saw Richard Nixon under Ike,

1059
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 4: you know, and and see that kind of relationship with

1060
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 4: a younger person who's going out there and fighting for

1061
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: the cause.

1062
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: That's great.

1063
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 4: There's going to be other people who run, and it's

1064
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 4: not just going to be people who are going at

1065
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 4: him from a more quote unquote centrist position, presumably someone

1066
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 4: like Len Younkin or somebody like that business lobby perhaps.

1067
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 4: But this is the kind of thing where I think

1068
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: you're going to get some conservatives who are going to

1069
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 4: run because the timing is right, because everything is right

1070
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 4: in their lives, to run, they think that they have

1071
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 4: a record or run on, et cetera. I think jd

1072
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 4: Vance probably emerges as the king of the CA at

1073
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 4: the end of that just given the skill that he

1074
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 4: has shown. But having him earn it on the field

1075
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 4: is something that I think is really important.

1076
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: That's why Hillary was a terrible candidate. Yeah, Hillary was terrible.

1077
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 11: Hillary.

1078
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 4: Based the kind of challenges that she had to in

1079
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 4: order to get that candidacy, she probably would have been

1080
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: a better candidate, and because she didn't, she ended up

1081
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 4: being a worse one. She wasn't prepared for any of

1082
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 4: the arguments used against her. And look, I personally think

1083
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 4: you're going to get at least one person in this

1084
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 4: race who is going to try to present themselves as

1085
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 4: the more authentic Maga figure than JD. Vance. And whoever

1086
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 4: that turns out to be, you know, it's probably going

1087
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 4: to be a member of Congress. It's probably going to

1088
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 4: be somebody who, you know, maybe surprises us by running.

1089
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 4: But it could be anybody, and they could be framing

1090
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 4: themselves as to his right, and that's something he's going

1091
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 4: to have to deal with as well. It's not just

1092
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: going to be someone where he can take up that position.

1093
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 4: And so because of that, I think an early endorsement

1094
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 4: is foolish. And and look, you know, I wish that

1095
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 4: she had just said it slightly differently, saying, look, you know,

1096
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 4: if the nominee is jd Vance, of course we're going

1097
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 4: to fight so hard.

1098
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: And if my husband's friend and I love him, that

1099
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: would have been fine. I'm coming right back with Ben

1100
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: Dominis because we got to talk about Ben Shapiro and

1101
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: Tucker stay tuned working back America. When I was a kid,

1102
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: Fraser Ali were the three fights that defined the era.

1103
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: I mean there were three knockdown fights that Thrill in

1104
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: Manila and two more and Ali won two and Fraser

1105
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: one one. And at the end Ali was the greatest

1106
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: champion ever. So Ben Shapiro knocked Tucker around the room

1107
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 1: at the Heritage Foundation this week, and then they both

1108
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 1: met up in TPUSA and Tucker gave his thing. Ben

1109
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: gave his thing, and Tucker did not answer the substance.

1110
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: He said, you're attacking jd Vance and that's why you're

1111
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: attacking me. That's a win by default, you think for

1112
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, what do you think?

1113
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 4: So Look, I think he had a very challenging position

1114
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 4: to navigate there, and I think he decided to lean

1115
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 4: in to the end degree, and I applaud.

1116
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: Him for it, because Ben Shapiro.

1117
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that you can't be around the bush

1118
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 4: with this situation anymore for all of us, even those

1119
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 4: of us who like me. I mean, I feel like

1120
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 4: I was a Tucker Crosson descender far longer than a

1121
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 4: lot of people who I know, because I have known him.

1122
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 4: I literally met him when I was fifteen, and I've

1123
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 4: always thought him to be one of the most charming, hilarious,

1124
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 4: entertaining people who I know within this industry, and I

1125
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,919
Speaker 4: have very very little had very little disagreement, i would say,

1126
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 4: with him until just the past couple of years. But

1127
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 4: one of the things I think has been made clear

1128
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 4: in the time, you know, in recent times is just

1129
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 4: how much he is animated by a lot of I

1130
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 4: think personal vindictiveness, which is unfortunate and which has overwhelmed

1131
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 4: a lot of the values that I thought that he

1132
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 4: had beforehand. Ben Shapiro, I think, took a bold stand

1133
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 4: in front of that audience. It could have gone a

1134
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 4: different way, but it went the way that it did.

1135
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 4: And the way that it went is that the people there,

1136
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 4: particularly the young people in the audience, and I want

1137
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: to point that out to every listener. The young people

1138
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 4: in the audience were clapping for Ben. They were clapping

1139
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 4: loudly for him because they are tired. They are sick

1140
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 4: and tired of having the wool pulled over their eyes

1141
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 4: by people who have personal gripes, dendictiveness, spite toward people

1142
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 4: who are leading other institutions, or who feel like they

1143
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 4: need to make these wild claims in order to keep

1144
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 4: people listening to them. And you know, Ben Shapiro has

1145
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 4: his own tone. Sometimes it turns people off because, hey.

1146
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: It's way too fast. I've told Ben, if anyone talks

1147
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: faster than me, it's too fast.

1148
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 4: I know, I know, but and I'm a Southern pers

1149
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 4: so it's even worse for me. Yeah, but it's one

1150
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 4: of these things where I think that he prosecuted that

1151
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 4: case as well as anyone possibly could. And then I

1152
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 4: think Tucker got out up there and really was unprepared

1153
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 4: to deal with it and tried to change the argument.

1154
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 4: I don't think it worked at all.

1155
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: And I think that here's what I also want to

1156
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: get in now it should be over. There are some

1157
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: people who do not deserve our attention, and I mean lunatics,

1158
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: and we do not need to deal with them. And

1159
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: there are some people for whom we don't want fights

1160
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: between them to go on. It's a big tent. It's

1161
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: a really big tent. And what Tucker does. He's an

1162
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: elegant writer. He can defend himself. He's got a million followers.

1163
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,439
Speaker 1: He might choose to answer it, but he shouldn't answer

1164
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: it by saying, you're really attacking JD. Vance, because that's

1165
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: not really what's being attacked. Most of the people that

1166
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: applauded Ben love JD. Vance. It's a false choice. You

1167
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: don't have to like Tucker and jd and or you

1168
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: have to like Ben Shapiro. That's a false choice. It's

1169
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: a question of I it's just about their ideas. Do

1170
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: you think we can get it back to that? Because

1171
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: I have no time for the other of the nutters none.

1172
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about the nutters.

1173
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 4: The truth is that we have to get back to that.

1174
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 4: And the reason we have to get back to that

1175
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 4: is because the longer we spend getting involved in these

1176
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 4: personal fights where you have to pick sides and where

1177
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: you know, well, you listen to this person and I

1178
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 4: listen to this person, and we have to have a

1179
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 4: dispute about it, it doesn't make any sense, especially at

1180
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 4: this particular moment, you when it actually is clear that

1181
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 4: there's so much that can be done and that should

1182
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 4: be being argued in the public square that people are

1183
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 4: being distracted from. Quite frankly, yes, all sorts of ludicrous,

1184
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 4: you know, conspiracizing and you know, kind of stand in

1185
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 4: fights for other things, and that's just not there's no

1186
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 4: point to that. We should be arguing about how to

1187
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 4: move this country forward and about the best way to

1188
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 4: do it. The policy is about to be pursued by

1189
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 4: this Congress and by this Republican majority and by the President.

1190
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 4: We should be talking about what ought to be done.

1191
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 4: As it lates the world at large, and I think

1192
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 4: that that conversation would be happening in the absence of

1193
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 4: a lot of this, and unfortunately we've been sucked into it.

1194
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 4: It's natural because of the power of charismatic people using

1195
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 4: the sounding board of a massive megaphone online. But we've

1196
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 4: got to get out of it. And I think, quite frankly,

1197
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 4: I hope that the Ben Shapiro message is one that

1198
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 4: helps us get out of it and help.

1199
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: I think it will, and I generally acknowledge it. I

1200
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: don't want Charlie Kirk's murderer to have successfully destroyed his

1201
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: movement by unleashing one hundred different demons. People in anger

1202
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: and people are aggrieving, and I just don't want that.

1203
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: He built a very good GOOTV. I've always thought turning

1204
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: point at GOOTV. I didn't think of it like the

1205
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: National Review semi every two years they get together and

1206
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: have an idea summit. That's not what it is. It's

1207
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: a GOOTV effort, and I just wanted to work and

1208
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: keep working, so I do too.

1209
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 4: I do too. I think it's possible. I'm hopeful, and

1210
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 4: I quite frankly believe that this Andora's Box that that

1211
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 4: this shooter, this assassin opened is one that actually has

1212
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 4: a lot more hope as it relates to Americans, young

1213
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 4: Americans in particular, coming back to faith in their own lives,

1214
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 4: being motivated by the things that motivated Charlie, appreciating those

1215
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 4: aspects of him beyond just to get out the vogue effort.

1216
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 4: And that's something that I think is very healthy, beneficial

1217
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 4: and good for the country. I just want it to

1218
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 4: be more centered around that, as opposed to these ridiculous,

1219
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 4: vindictive and pointless conspiracy theories mounted by people who are

1220
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 4: only getting the attention in part because it benefits the

1221
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 4: left to promote them. It benefits the other side of

1222
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 4: this argument to promote them and voicing that along on

1223
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 4: quite frankly, a number of people who I say don't

1224
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 4: have the necessary defenses against something like that because they

1225
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 4: have trusted these voices for so long.

1226
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: Well said. And on that note, we'll talk to you

1227
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: maybe once more before Christmas, if we don't marry Christmas,

1228
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: Ben have a great one. I've been telling you every

1229
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Speaker 1: day about consumer cellular and I want to tell you

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1232
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1233
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1234
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1235
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Speaker 1: want to do that is save money. Have you looked

1236
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Speaker 1: at your phone bill lately? Do you have any idea

1237
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1238
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Speaker 1: by the hey phone on us Big Wireless offers. Their

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1240
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Speaker 1: at the actual costs of the plan that you're paying

1241
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Speaker 1: for the length of the contract before you make what

1242
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1247
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1258
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Speaker 1: I got one point five million children to serve. More

1259
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Speaker 1: and more of you come in every single day to

1260
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1261
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1262
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1263
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1264
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1265
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1267
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1268
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Speaker 11: angel Tree, by you investing, you are enabling Christmas and

1270
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Speaker 11: the Gospel to be brought to these children right into

1271
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Speaker 11: their own homes.

1272
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,240
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1273
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1277
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1278
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Speaker 1: and do it today. All right, queuet dot com banner

1279
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: at the top. I'll be right back. Welcome back in America.

1280
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewett. Uilake is a contributor to the Free Press.

1281
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: He's the host of the Breaking History podcast. I love.

1282
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: His most recent one ELI today, the Turning Point USA conference,

1283
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: which is for the kids, right for the younger people

1284
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: than you and I. They had Ben Shapiro and they

1285
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: had Tucker Carlson. We'll talk about that in a moment.

1286
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: Erica Kirk made an announcement. I was somewhat surprised, but

1287
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: I want to play it for you and get your reaction.

1288
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 12: Cut Number one, we're going to ensure that President Trump

1289
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 12: has Congress for all four years. We are going to

1290
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 12: get my husband's friend jd Vance elected for forty eight

1291
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 12: and the most resoundingly possible.

1292
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 1: All right, So, before we moved to the second part,

1293
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 1: are you surprised that she did that.

1294
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 13: No, because Turning Point USA, I think was is always

1295
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 13: very much of a Vance twenty twenty eight operation. There

1296
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 13: was a moment after that horrible assassination where I thought

1297
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 13: there and I still think TPOSA should say is also

1298
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 13: doing this, But it could have turned into kind of

1299
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 13: a civic organization that encouraged people to find a church,

1300
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 13: find religion, go back to God, focus on the lost boys,

1301
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 13: as Charlie Kirk used to call them, who have found

1302
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 13: you know, who have sort of sunk into a life

1303
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 13: of nihilism online. But I think it's always been TPOSA

1304
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 13: is an organization that is largely political, and JD Vance

1305
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 13: was very close with Charlie Kirk, and I think people

1306
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 13: inside the Republican Party kind of understood this was the

1307
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 13: grassroots organization for Advance twenty twenty eight. I think that

1308
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 13: it might be more wide open than that, and this

1309
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 13: may be it's I think it's maybe too soon to

1310
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 13: kind of come out and say that, because I think

1311
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 13: there's a lot of things that can happen. But I'm

1312
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 13: not necessarily surprised now.

1313
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: I was surprised because it's an obstacle to growth. Whenever

1314
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: you're declaring you're excluding, and I thought they were growing,

1315
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: And I think JD. Vance is probably going to be

1316
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: the nominee, and he's a friend of my program, and

1317
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have them on all the time. But

1318
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: I don't get involved in the presidential primary until the

1319
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: presidential primary is over, so I was surprised.

1320
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 3: Now.

1321
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro gave a speech at Heritage this week which

1322
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: was a full frontal attack on Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson

1323
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 1: responded at TPUSA today in an unusual way. They ended

1324
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 1: up not debating an argument. Tucker ended up saying I'm

1325
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: being attacked because it's a way of getting JD. Vance

1326
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:44,440
Speaker 1: that is, I believe wrong. And I think his ideas

1327
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: are being attacked by various people like Ben, like you,

1328
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: like me, on idea by idea basis. Do you think

1329
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: he capitulated today by switching from the idea debate to

1330
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 1: the oh, you're really attacking JD. Dance to be.

1331
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 11: No.

1332
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 13: I think that's part for the course, Unfortunately for Tucker,

1333
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 13: who I think was at earlier parts of his career

1334
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 13: a far more thoughtful and serious thinker and writer and broadcaster.

1335
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 13: I think that Ben Shapiro's speeches at Heritage and at

1336
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,440
Speaker 13: TPUSA will be read in fifty years by young conservatives

1337
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 13: if they want to understand what was at stake in

1338
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 13: this moment. After the Charlie Kirk assassination in twenty twenty five,

1339
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 13: I thought they were absolutely masterful. Now, yes, the headlines

1340
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 13: are that he did get personal, not just with Tucker Carlson,

1341
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 13: but with Megan Kelly, Candice Owens and others. But I

1342
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 13: think he also laid out important principles that for the

1343
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 13: most part, people who are on the right, people who

1344
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 13: are conservatives, have to renew in every generation, and Ben Shapiro,

1345
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 13: in my view, has done that. I cannot tell you

1346
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 13: how much respect I have for what he did. I

1347
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 13: don't think this needs to be personal, and I think

1348
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,759
Speaker 13: your approach is right. It's not about canceling the person.

1349
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 13: It's about grappling with the ideas. But a lot of

1350
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 13: the ideas that we're hearing and the style, the grammar

1351
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 13: of the political discourse has gone off the rails into

1352
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 13: conspiracy theory land. And I know that you don't like

1353
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 13: to talk about some of these people, and I think

1354
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 13: that's there's wisdom in that, by the way, but we

1355
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 13: have to grapple that there are millions of people who

1356
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 13: tune in online to hear innuendo, garbage, conspiracy, ahistorical stuff

1357
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 13: that gnaws away at the trust we need to have

1358
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 13: in basic institutions in order to reform them to save

1359
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 13: the country. So I mean, in my view, indulging ideas

1360
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 13: that you know, the French and the mo Soad and

1361
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 13: maybe even TPUSA staff may have played a role in

1362
01:10:59,280 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 13: the murder.

1363
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: Is it's just it's so toxic. Well, what I want

1364
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: to get to eli and make sure I get to it.

1365
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: I had a leader thun On this week and I

1366
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: put it to him squarely, is it a requirement to

1367
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: be a member of the Republican Party in ninety nine

1368
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,799
Speaker 1: percent of the time to be a full throated ally

1369
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: of Israel and to recognize that they are America's most

1370
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 1: important ally? And is the GOP going to stand by Israel?

1371
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: And the leader did not hesitate. He said, absolutely, it

1372
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: is part of our core identity to be an ally

1373
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: of Israel. So that's not a negative attack on anyone.

1374
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: I said, Look, I know Senator Paul leaves your caucus

1375
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: on that occasionally, and Tom Massey's wigne, but in ninety

1376
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time, you've got to be with Israel,

1377
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: and I think that's the positive case. You know, here

1378
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: are the things we believe in, which is what Ben did,

1379
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: although he left Israel off I think probably very smartly.

1380
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: But he said you got to have boundaries to have

1381
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: a party, just like you have to have boundaries to

1382
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: have a country. He did not mention part of my

1383
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: boundaries support for the state of Israel. Do you think

1384
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: that's going to be part of the boundary for the

1385
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:05,719
Speaker 1: Republican Party going forward?

1386
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 13: I would phrase it differently. I think that there is

1387
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 13: plenty of room, and I've seen many Zionists and pro

1388
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 13: Israel voices have this conversation. I wrote about this eleven

1389
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 13: years ago. I should say for The Daily Beast that

1390
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 13: you can question whether the military subsidy is wise at

1391
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 13: this point, the aid to Israel, and there are a

1392
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 13: lot of Israelies, by the way, who would agree that

1393
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 13: it's time to phase that out. You can criticize tactics

1394
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 13: in a very hard war, but when you frame the

1395
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 13: conflict in Gaza without applying any agency to the party

1396
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 13: that started the war, and you describe it as a

1397
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 13: sort of genocide against defenseless people without mentioning the fact

1398
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 13: that the people who started the war are hiding under tunnels,

1399
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 13: under mosques and schools and apartment buildings and have a

1400
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 13: strategy of using human shields and don't wear uniforms. That's

1401
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 13: where it gets in my view, where it's a moral

1402
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 13: question or question of values. There's plenty of room to

1403
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 13: have people who would like a less robust American foreign

1404
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 13: policy that believes that when there are choices to be

1405
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 13: made with limited resources, we should focus more at home.

1406
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 13: I don't I think you can be part of the right.

1407
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 13: I don't think there's any problem with that. The issue

1408
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 13: is when the criticism curdles into defamation, and that has

1409
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 13: happened at light speed in certain segments in the online world,

1410
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 13: and when it becomes conspiratorial. When you hear people say

1411
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 13: the Israel lobby is the real government of the United States,

1412
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,919
Speaker 13: which is just you and I both know is absurd

1413
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 13: to be stupidity, right, right, And when you even say

1414
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 13: that American citizens, many of whom are not Jewish, who

1415
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 13: support a strong US Israel alliance, are somehow being disloyal

1416
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 13: or not as lawyer, or not putting America first. That's

1417
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 13: where it leads into something which I don't think is acceptable.

1418
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 13: But those are again for value reasons. We can have

1419
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 13: a debate about policy, no problem. People say you can't

1420
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 13: criticize this realm. Sure you can, but that's not criticism.

1421
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 13: That is to another remanance, not really about Israel. It's

1422
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 13: but who we are as a movement on the right and.

1423
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: As a country and as a party. I'm a Republican.

1424
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: The party has to be for a strong defense, and

1425
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: a strong defense has to support Israel when it needs support.

1426
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: Whether or not that's a military subtry, I don't know.

1427
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: But if they need at thirty five, we sell them

1428
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: at thirty five. If that simple, they are our most

1429
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,959
Speaker 1: important superpower ally, Eli Lake, thank you, my friend Vallmann

1430
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: et Eli Lake. Stay tuned.