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Speaker 1: Welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World, the podcast that tackles

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Speaker 1: tough topics to help you be a godly parent in

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Speaker 1: an ungodly world. I am your host, Katherine Segers, and

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Speaker 1: in today's episode, we are going to tackle a life-altering question.

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Speaker 1: What if your child is struggling in ways you never see?

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Speaker 1: And you don't realize how much they're hurting until it's

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Speaker 1: almost too late. Today, we are talking about one of

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Speaker 1: the most terrifying things a parent can imagine. That is

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Speaker 1: teen suicide. Today you're going to hear the story of

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Speaker 1: Emma Benoit, a vibrant, beautiful, 16-year-old varsity cheerleader whose hidden

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Speaker 1: battle with anxiety led her to attempt to take her

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Speaker 1: own life with a gun. Now, Emma survived something that

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Speaker 1: about only 1% of people who sustain a self-inflicted gunshot

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Speaker 1: wound do, but she was left paralyzed from the waist down. Today,

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Speaker 1: Emma has turned that unimaginable pain into a mission to

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Speaker 1: help other young people find hope and to save lives.

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Speaker 1: And she's joined today by Jennifer Ehlers, who is a

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Speaker 1: Christian counselor, a crisis responder, a trainer, and an author

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Speaker 1: who specializes in youth suicide prevention. Together, we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about what may be happening beneath the surface

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Speaker 1: of our kid's the warning signs parents need to recognize,

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Speaker 1: and how we can create families and communities where struggling

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Speaker 1: young people know that they don't have to suffer alone.

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Speaker 1: That's the plan for this episode of Christian Parent Crazy World. Hey,

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Speaker 1: moms and dads. I just want to say before we

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Speaker 1: I get into this conversation today that this is a

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Speaker 1: very special archive episode. It was actually one of my

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Speaker 1: first and it hits very close to home for me

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Speaker 1: because just a few weeks ago in our homeschool community,

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Speaker 1: a young man who had been a student of mine,

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Speaker 1: he was on my son's baseball team, took his own

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Speaker 1: life and It honestly has just rocked our world. It's

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Speaker 1: been devastating to think and know what this family is

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Speaker 1: going through. And I wish, I wish that this young

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Speaker 1: man could have heard the conversation you're about to hear

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Speaker 1: today before he took those steps. Because this was actually

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Speaker 1: one of my very first interviews ever. Prior to doing

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Speaker 1: this episode with Emma Benoit and Jennifer Ehlers, I was

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Speaker 1: a solo podcaster. It was just me and a mic,

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Speaker 1: and I had a script. And sometimes I go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to those old episodes, and I'm like, dear me,

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Speaker 1: I think I've come a long way. But this request

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Speaker 1: that I got in my inbox was the one that

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Speaker 1: made me finally take the leap into doing interviews. Emma's

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Speaker 1: story was just riveting to me. I heard her. She

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Speaker 1: was on Dr. Phil and some other large media outlets.

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Speaker 1: And she had a documentary coming out about her life.

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Speaker 1: And so we watched that. I actually watched that with

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Speaker 1: my kids. And it was pretty mesmerizing. Her story is

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Speaker 1: powerful to really get behind the scenes, kind of in

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Speaker 1: the mind of someone who's struggling like this. And I

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Speaker 1: could relate. I've struggled with mental health issues for much

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Speaker 1: of my life. I had a severe crippling, crippling anxiety

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Speaker 1: and depression for 17 years. God did a lot of healing.

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Speaker 1: And I talk about this in our conversation today as well.

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Speaker 1: But it's also especially timely after last week's episode with Dr.

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Speaker 1: Tyler Evans, where we talked about men's mental health. That

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Speaker 1: is a hidden crisis in our country that nobody is

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Speaker 1: really talking about because four out of every five suicides

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Speaker 1: happens male. So we really need to be checking under

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Speaker 1: the hood there about what's going on in men's mental

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Speaker 1: health with our husbands, with our sons, with our brothers,

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Speaker 1: as well as with our sisters and our daughters and

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Speaker 1: our girlfriends. So I wanted to give you a few

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Speaker 1: statistics before we jumped into this conversation, though, that I

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Speaker 1: think are really shocking. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are

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Speaker 1: definitely struggling to in their mental health. Suicide is actually

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Speaker 1: the second leading cause of death among young people. And

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Speaker 1: according to a 2019 study, 8.9%, almost 9% of all

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Speaker 1: high school students report attempting a suicide in the previous year.

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Speaker 1: That's like almost 1 in 10. Those numbers, they're staggering.

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Speaker 1: And behind every number is a person whose life matters

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Speaker 1: and a family whose life has changed forever. So that's

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Speaker 1: why I wanted to bring this conversation back. I want

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Speaker 1: you to hear firsthand Emma's story about what was happening

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Speaker 1: in her mind just prior to taking a gun, aiming

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Speaker 1: it at her chest and pulling the trigger. And I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear what Jennifer Ehlers has to say

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Speaker 1: because she really helps us to recognize the signs. She

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Speaker 1: also helps us to understand how to respond to someone.

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Speaker 2: Who is struggling.

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Speaker 1: And also, I think this is fascinating. It's something you're

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Speaker 1: probably not going to hear on a lot of other

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Speaker 1: shows that talk about suicide or mental health. And that

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Speaker 1: is the very real spiritual battle that is taking place

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Speaker 1: underneath it all. So with that said, I want to

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Speaker 1: take you to my conversation with Emma Benoit and Jennifer Ehlers. Emma, Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 1: you could join us here today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: So Emma, I gathered from your documentary, which is called

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Speaker 1: My Ascension, that you were battling with crippling anxiety and

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Speaker 1: what eventually led you to attempt suicide.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct. As a child, I didn't understand how

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Speaker 2: big my feelings were and I didn't know what to

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Speaker 2: do with them. So I struggled pretty greatly with anxiety

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Speaker 2: and not feeling like I had the right to struggle

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Speaker 2: because externally my life was this picture perfect life that

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Speaker 2: you were describing. So as a kid, you know, not

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Speaker 2: having these life skills and processing skills, I felt shame

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Speaker 2: for my anxiety. And as I grew up, it just

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Speaker 2: continued to grow.

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Speaker 1: What exactly did that look like for you? Can you

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Speaker 1: describe what that felt like?

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Speaker 2: So the anxiety, I remember it kind of manifested from

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Speaker 2: my insecurities and my self-esteem issues. When I was a

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Speaker 2: little girl in elementary school, I can remember feeling so

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Speaker 2: self-conscious even to get up in front of my classmates

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Speaker 2: to walk to the bathroom. I was so insecure and

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Speaker 2: so self-conscious that they would be talking about me or

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Speaker 2: making fun of me. And so those insecurities really created

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Speaker 2: made me feel extremely anxious. And that bled into social

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Speaker 2: anxiety as well, feeling so insecure that I was afraid

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Speaker 2: of judgment and my peers bullying me that ultimately that

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Speaker 2: anxiety kind of turned into a form of social anxiety

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Speaker 2: where I was filtering what I was saying in front

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Speaker 2: of my friends to make them happy and laugh. Or

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Speaker 2: I was not fully being myself. I was pretending to

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Speaker 2: be someone just so I could feel like I was

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Speaker 2: fitting in with the group of kids that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be friends with. And so that was very heavy

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Speaker 2: and hard for me to struggle with as a kid

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Speaker 2: because I didn't understand what it was.

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Speaker 1: So your friends didn't know and your parents didn't know either,

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Speaker 1: did they?

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Speaker 2: No, no one knew. And that's because I was ashamed

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Speaker 2: of it. So I made sure that no one ever

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Speaker 2: worried about me because I didn't want to have people

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Speaker 2: in my life look at me in that light because

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Speaker 2: of that stigma that I was totally believing in. I

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Speaker 2: felt shame. I was like, there's no reason I have

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Speaker 2: to feel anxious and insecure. You know, people tell me

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Speaker 2: all the time, you're so beautiful. You know, you have

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Speaker 2: a great life, just be grateful. But I never felt

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Speaker 2: that way. So because of that, I felt guilty and

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Speaker 2: I felt like there's no, I don't have a right

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Speaker 2: to feel this way. So because of that, I protected

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Speaker 2: myself from it and I put a mask up.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. Jennifer, I want to ask you, so when do

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Speaker 1: most kids start experiencing that kind of anxiety or depression?

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Speaker 1: Is there a common age when that kind of onset occurs?

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Speaker 3: Well, traditionally, it is about the age that I believe

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Speaker 3: Emma really started going through difficult times, which was right

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Speaker 3: around the 12 to 13 mark. When the hormones start

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Speaker 3: to change, you go into adolescence, there's puberty. And by

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Speaker 3: the way, hormones can really shift things and create some

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Speaker 3: of the biological predisposition to things like anxiety and depression,

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Speaker 3: which are then exacerbated by also the circumstances that teens

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Speaker 3: are going through, because that middle school time is known

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Speaker 3: to be the most difficult and challenging with regard to

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Speaker 3: social situations and your peers and identity and a lot

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Speaker 3: of the things that Emma was struggling with. But I

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Speaker 3: do want to say what we're seeing, especially in the

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Speaker 3: last 10 to 15 years, is that age is getting

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Speaker 3: younger and younger. And that's something that I want to

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Speaker 3: make parents aware of, because if you're sitting there with six, seven,

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Speaker 3: eight year olds thinking, well, this is not relevant for

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Speaker 3: a few years. I wish that was true. And when

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Speaker 3: I was in graduate school and I was going through

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Speaker 3: my education, that was true. But what we're seeing is

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Speaker 3: a huge increase in suicidality, suicide attempts, and even tragically

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Speaker 3: completed suicides in children ages six to 12. And we're

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Speaker 3: also seeing an increase in that age group, children going

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Speaker 3: to hospitals and to doctors with mental health related concerns

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Speaker 3: in that age group. So that is something that's new.

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Speaker 3: But I think so many people, even mental health professionals,

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Speaker 3: but especially parents, are not aware that it can start

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Speaker 3: much earlier. And this can be a risk for even

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Speaker 3: younger children.

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Speaker 1: You know, my my oldest daughter, I can remember at

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Speaker 1: age five, panic attacks, full flown panic attacks on Sunday school.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're not not even not even going to school.

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Speaker 1: Sunday school, dropping her off there. And she has battled

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Speaker 1: with anxiety for most of her life. And it's a

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Speaker 1: battle that we're, you know, we're waging with her. But

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Speaker 1: can you tell us then what signs should we be

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Speaker 1: looking for as parents in those early stages?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's really hard because the stages are different for, say,

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Speaker 3: someone Emma's age, when that started for her teenagers, even

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Speaker 3: young adults and adults, it's different than parents. younger children.

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Speaker 3: But I would say to look for signs that your

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Speaker 3: child is, something is different about them. So something has

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Speaker 3: changed for them. We say traditionally across all age groups,

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Speaker 3: look at their eating and sleeping patterns. Are they sleeping well?

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Speaker 3: Are they not? How are they doing in school? How

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Speaker 3: are their grades? Have you seen personality shifts or changes

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Speaker 3: And so those are some of the first signs. And

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Speaker 3: then also if your young person is having, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to go to school for some reason, or they've

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Speaker 3: been engaged in an activity that they seem to love,

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Speaker 3: then all of a sudden they don't want to do

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Speaker 3: it anymore. So then it's just about asking questions because

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Speaker 3: maybe they literally don't want to play that sport or

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Speaker 3: play that musical instrument, but maybe there is another reason.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's tied to a social situation, depression or anxiety,

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Speaker 3: but the hardest part of this is is that we're

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Speaker 3: looking for signs and I'm giving you some of those,

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Speaker 3: but the truth is some parents won't see the signs

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Speaker 3: because like Emma, a lot of kids are masking it

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Speaker 3: and they're doing a really good job at pretending to

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Speaker 3: be fine and specifically not just not telling their parents,

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Speaker 3: but actually hiding it from friends and family. That's why

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Speaker 3: it's important not just to look for signs, but to

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Speaker 3: have those conversations, even if you think everything is fine.

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Speaker 3: It means talking to your kids about how are things

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Speaker 3: going and what do you like and what do you

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Speaker 3: not like, but also even specifically, have you felt down

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Speaker 3: or depressed? Have you had bad days? And then what

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Speaker 3: does that look like for you? And having those conversations,

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Speaker 3: do you get anxious? Do you get nervous about things?

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Speaker 3: Do things upset you, keep you awake at night? Do

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Speaker 3: thoughts kind of go through your head and get stuck

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Speaker 3: and you're not able to get those thoughts out of

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Speaker 3: your head? So having some, age appropriate, depending on the

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Speaker 3: age of your child or teen, some conversations with them.

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Speaker 3: In younger children, that might mean playing with toys and

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Speaker 3: asking those questions. But with teenagers, having the conversations, but

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Speaker 3: not in an accusatory or threatening way. Make sure that

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Speaker 3: it doesn't feel punitive or that you're saying this is

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Speaker 3: an expectation you have of them that they're okay. But just,

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Speaker 3: you know, I know a lot of young people experience this.

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Speaker 3: In fact, so many do. Can we talk about it?

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Speaker 3: Because that's going to open the door. And again, making

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Speaker 3: sure they know that you love them and it's okay

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Speaker 3: for them to share that with you. All you want

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Speaker 3: to do is help and give them support.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, one thing that really stuck out in the

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Speaker 1: film to me is that one of the doctors, I think,

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Speaker 1: said that children are good about talking about physical pain.

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Speaker 1: but they are not good about talking about emotional pain.

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Speaker 1: That's something that we try to mask. That's something that

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Speaker 1: we feel ashamed of. I'll be doing some future podcasts

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Speaker 1: on this, but I struggled with clinical anxiety and depression

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Speaker 1: for 17 years and knock down, drag out. And so

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Speaker 1: this one hits close to home. I did not get

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Speaker 1: to the point where I seriously contemplated suicide, but there

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Speaker 1: were many times I prayed to die and wanted to die.

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Speaker 1: And so I understand getting to that place of desperation.

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Speaker 1: So Emma, at what point in your battle with anxiety

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Speaker 1: did you start thinking about ending your life?

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Speaker 2: So I struggled for pretty consistently for years, all throughout

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Speaker 2: middle school and really all throughout high school as well.

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Speaker 2: But I would say the breaking point, kind of the

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Speaker 2: spiraling moment that my thoughts really shifted from suicidal ideation,

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Speaker 2: which is the type of thinking that you were describing,

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Speaker 2: just not really having a plan or an idea, but

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Speaker 2: just desperately not wanting to be here and thinking things like,

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Speaker 2: wish I wasn't born. If I just accidentally passed away,

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Speaker 2: I would be okay with it. Things like that. But really,

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Speaker 2: I would say the summer before my senior year of

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Speaker 2: high school, is really when those thoughts kind of transition

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Speaker 2: from that type of thinking to more active suicidal type thinking.

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Speaker 2: So I would say it was about two to three

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Speaker 2: months that I was having those types of thoughts before

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Speaker 2: I made the attempt.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't a specific event or anything that intensified?

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Speaker 1: Were the events involved with it or was it just

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Speaker 1: this growing? anxiety that you were feeling?

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Speaker 2: So I would say it was a culmination of everything.

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Speaker 2: It was a culmination of years worth of undiscussed and

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Speaker 2: untouched feelings and years worth of struggling with depression and

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Speaker 2: not having a set of coping skills, never feeling that

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Speaker 2: like I could justify these things with anyone. All of

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Speaker 2: those factors, I feel like truly led me to making

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Speaker 2: that decision. But there was kind of a triggering point,

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Speaker 2: if you will. A week before my attempt, I was

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Speaker 2: in New York City on a trip that was for modeling.

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Speaker 2: And at the time, I had begun to spiral because

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Speaker 2: I decided not to try out for cheerleading. I had

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Speaker 2: started working a job that I wasn't really too happy about.

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Speaker 2: And just my life felt like it was not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was the summer for my senior year.

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Speaker 2: So I was... hopeful to go into college, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any plans. So I just felt like I

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Speaker 2: wasn't going anywhere with my life. And I felt like

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Speaker 2: nothing is ever going to get better because my life

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Speaker 2: has always looked this way. It's always been this constant

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Speaker 2: challenge and a challenge that I don't feel like I

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Speaker 2: could ever talk about with anyone. So I got to

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Speaker 2: a point coming back from that trip that I got

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Speaker 2: invited onto where I just hit rock bottom. Because being

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Speaker 2: on that trip and being asked to be a part

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Speaker 2: of that was such a confidence boost. And it truly

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Speaker 2: did bring back a lot of my joy. And so

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Speaker 2: when I had to come home from that trip, I

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Speaker 2: kind of had something to compare it to. So I

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Speaker 2: hit rock bottom. And honestly, there were so many things

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Speaker 2: going through my head. But the biggest thing that I

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Speaker 2: felt was hopelessness. And I felt like I was a burden.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. I just have to ask, where were you like

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Speaker 1: in your spiritual walk at this point? Were you going

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Speaker 1: to church? Did you have a relationship with God at

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Speaker 1: this point or was that pretty stagnant?

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Speaker 2: So growing up, I never really had a relationship with God.

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Speaker 2: I always thought that I was too imperfect for God

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Speaker 2: to love me. I never felt like he heard me

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Speaker 2: when I prayed to him. And actually, when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, I would attend church with my friends. and

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Speaker 2: her family. And I loved it. As an elementary school kid,

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Speaker 2: I just truly loved it. Look forward to it every Sunday.

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Speaker 2: And I really love that. But the thing with my

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Speaker 2: faith was I never felt like I was a part

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Speaker 2: of the family. I never felt like I was a

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Speaker 2: child of God, but I loved being a part of

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Speaker 2: it with their family. So as I got older, I

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Speaker 2: kind of just slowly changed. got further and further from,

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Speaker 2: from God and, you know, not attending church, not having

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Speaker 2: faith in, in my environment and my home really talked

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Speaker 2: about and a big part of it. It was just

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Speaker 2: not something that was a part of my life truly.

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Speaker 1: So, so Jennifer, do you know if most people who

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Speaker 1: contemplate suicide before attempting it, do they do that for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time, short period of time? Does

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Speaker 1: it just vary from person to person?

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Speaker 3: Well, it does really vary from person to person, but

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Speaker 3: with young people, a much higher percentage, it's impulsive. It's

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Speaker 3: very impulsive. And that's one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: really want parents or any caregivers to realize that most

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Speaker 3: adults will take much longer to think through, plan, process

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Speaker 3: before they take action. But of younger people, and that's

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Speaker 3: really those under the age of 30, but particularly the

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Speaker 3: younger you are, the more impulsive this can be. I

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Speaker 3: believe that something like half of them have a crisis

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Speaker 3: within the 24 to 48 hours prior to the attempt.

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Speaker 3: And for many of them, even I think a certain percentage,

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Speaker 3: I don't have those right in front of me, but

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Speaker 3: I think something like around 25% literally less than five

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Speaker 3: minutes had elapsed between the time that they decided they

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Speaker 3: were going to take their life and actually doing it.

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Speaker 3: This is from studies of those who had very much

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Speaker 3: like Emma near fatal suicide attempts. They had interviewed a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who had had near fatal suicide attempts

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Speaker 3: that had attempted and didn't die. And many of them

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Speaker 3: said it was a very impulsive decision. The other thing

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Speaker 3: that's important, and I'd love for Emma to tell this

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Speaker 3: about her own story, is that for those who survived,

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Speaker 3: most of them had a story that literally within minutes,

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Speaker 3: seconds after their attempt, they regretted it. They wish they

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Speaker 3: hadn't done it. It was not something that they wanted

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Speaker 3: to do, but it was more of an impulsive decision.

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Speaker 3: And then they didn't really want to die. And so

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Speaker 3: I think that's important for us to know because it

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Speaker 3: leads to some things that we want to discuss. And

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Speaker 3: that's about restricting access to lethal means during that time.

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Speaker 3: Because oftentimes that period of really wanting to end your

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Speaker 3: life is very short and they're not thinking clearly.

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Speaker 1: You're leading to my... Very next question, actually. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to hear Emma talk about that too, because one

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Speaker 1: of the doctors in the documentary, this fascinated me. He

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Speaker 1: talked about how seductive, that's how he called it. He

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Speaker 1: said it was how seductive the idea of suicide can

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Speaker 1: be for someone. It seems like the pressure just comes

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Speaker 1: in waves where it gets more and more intense. And

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Speaker 1: the idea of suicide just seems like a blessed relief.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing he said was that no one

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Speaker 1: wants to end their life. They want to end life.

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Speaker 1: the pain. And so how would you speak to that, Emma?

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Speaker 1: How would you describe that seductive feeling leading up to

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Speaker 1: your attempt to take your life?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's 100% accurate. I mean, like I said, I

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Speaker 2: had been struggling with those types of intrusive type of

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Speaker 2: thoughts about a month or two before the actual attempt happened.

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Speaker 2: And when those intrusive thoughts would hit the forefront of

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Speaker 2: my brain, It was like the only thing I could

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Speaker 2: think about. The only thing I could see, it was

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Speaker 2: the only option. And it sounded like the smartest option

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Speaker 2: to me mentally in that time. But it was 100%

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Speaker 2: an impulsive decision because immediately, I would even say milliseconds

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Speaker 2: after it happened, I experienced instant regret. And I knew

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Speaker 2: that I had just made a mistake and that I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to die. And so- I have to believe

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Speaker 2: that a lot of other people who make an attempt

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Speaker 2: feel that same way in those initial moments after the

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Speaker 2: attempt has been made, because the reality is when you

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Speaker 2: have so much emotional and mental hurt and pain that

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Speaker 2: you're experiencing and you don't feel like you can talk

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Speaker 2: about it, you don't feel like it's ever going to

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Speaker 2: get better. The best solution is, um, seems like escaping

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Speaker 2: it and the escape would be death. And so death

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Speaker 2: isn't really what we're after. If you're suicidal, it's this

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Speaker 2: gate from the turmoil and the pain.

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Speaker 1: Ending the pain. And I, I relate to that. I

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Speaker 1: truly do. Um, You called it suicidal ideation. You know,

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Speaker 1: I never really got to that place where I seriously

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Speaker 1: contemplated it. But I would be lying if I didn't

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Speaker 1: say I was there. There were times when I was

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Speaker 1: driving around a corner in a car and thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: it'd be nice to wrap my tree around that my

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Speaker 1: car around that tree or, you know, just because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to end the pain. You know, I I love

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Speaker 1: that you had Kevin Hines. in your documentary. I was

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Speaker 1: familiar with his story years ago. I thought it was fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And he spoke to the very thing you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: this seductive quality. I liken it to that ethereal lure

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Speaker 1: of the sirens on the rock that we hear about

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Speaker 1: the ancient sailors. They would hear these voices coming from

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Speaker 1: the rocks, beckoning them to bring their ships. But if

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Speaker 1: their ships went to shore, they would crash and die

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Speaker 1: on these rocky shores. it's this lure towards something that

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Speaker 1: seems good. And yet at the end, it's not what

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Speaker 1: we really want. And Kevin talked about that because of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, his stories, but my listeners don't, he attempted in, uh,

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Speaker 1: 2000 in the year 2000 to jump off the golden

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Speaker 1: gate bridge. And just for a little context, since 1937,

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Speaker 1: approximately 1800 people have ended their lives from, by jumping

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Speaker 1: from the golden gate bridge. Heinz, um, Kevin Hines is

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Speaker 1: one of only 35 people who has survived that jump.

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Speaker 1: That's like 2%. You're 1% of people who have survived

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Speaker 1: a gunshot wound. Now, Kevin said in his, I read

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Speaker 1: an article about him. It's exactly what you're describing. He

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Speaker 1: said he kept hearing a voice in his head saying,

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Speaker 1: jump now, jump now. And he said he felt compelled to.

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Speaker 1: to die. And it just alludes to that seductive quality

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Speaker 1: of suicide that we've been talking about. But he also

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Speaker 1: said the moment, the very moment his fingers left the railing,

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Speaker 1: he felt an instant regret. He said, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was too late. I said to myself, what have I done?

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Speaker 1: I don't want to die. And he realized at that point,

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Speaker 1: he said that he made the greatest mistake of his life.

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Speaker 1: And you said something similar right after I recall in

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Speaker 1: the documentary, what did you say right afterwards? Your mother,

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Speaker 1: describe what happened in that scene.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So my mom, actually, I was on the phone

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Speaker 2: with her before the attempt happened. And kind of like

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Speaker 2: we were talking about with teenagers, there's oftentimes that moment

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Speaker 2: of crisis. And my moment of crisis was comparing the

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Speaker 2: way I felt in New York to the way I

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Speaker 2: felt back at home. And I had a panic attack.

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Speaker 2: My first ever fully fledged panic attack ensued. And I

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Speaker 2: picked up the phone, called my mom because I was confused,

433
00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:53,470
Speaker 2: lost and hopeless. And so I called my mom and

434
00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: I was attempting to talk to her and try to

435
00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:59,620
Speaker 2: explain to her these things that I had been dealing with.

436
00:27:00,380 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: And in the midst of our conversation, I felt an

437
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:08,340
Speaker 2: immense feeling to just end it. And I felt like,

438
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: what is the point of trying? You're burdening your mom.

439
00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:14,420
Speaker 2: She doesn't need to deal with this right now. Um,

440
00:27:14,660 --> 00:27:18,020
Speaker 2: and you're, you're just a problem child. Um, and that's

441
00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: what I was telling myself amidst all of the other

442
00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: racing thoughts that I had. But what happened was my

443
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,700
Speaker 2: mom had to put me on hold and she placed

444
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,290
Speaker 2: me on hold. And then immediately that thought just, it

445
00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:33,650
Speaker 2: was like, it couldn't.

446
00:27:33,369 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: Get rid of it.

447
00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:40,790
Speaker 2: Um, and being, you know, 16, having an under underdeveloped mind, um,

448
00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:44,660
Speaker 2: and not having any clue, um, I just impulsively acted

449
00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:44,929
Speaker 2: on it.

450
00:27:47,340 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: And then what happened immediately afterwards then?

451
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:54,190
Speaker 2: So immediately after I pulled the trigger, my mom actually

452
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:57,030
Speaker 2: came back on the other end of the phone because

453
00:27:57,050 --> 00:27:59,630
Speaker 2: like I said, she had placed me on hold and

454
00:27:59,890 --> 00:28:02,990
Speaker 2: she got back on the line. And obviously I was non-responsive.

455
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:08,180
Speaker 2: And she said that she just had a really bad feeling,

456
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,770
Speaker 2: a really bad gut feeling. She calls it mother's intuition and,

457
00:28:12,770 --> 00:28:15,129
Speaker 2: or a sign from God. But she just said that

458
00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:18,580
Speaker 2: she knew something royally bad had happened. And so she

459
00:28:18,619 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: just decided to leave work and come home. And fortunately,

460
00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: she found me immediately as when she got home and

461
00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:31,550
Speaker 2: was able to get the first responders on the way

462
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:36,090
Speaker 2: and really just play a part in saving my life.

463
00:28:36,170 --> 00:28:41,050
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, it was a culmination of every person

464
00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: responding at a quick pace. But certainly the only thing

465
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,140
Speaker 2: to attribute my second chance to is the sheer and

466
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: utter grace of God. That is truly the only way

467
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,490
Speaker 2: to describe it because I am in that 1%. And,

468
00:28:57,890 --> 00:29:02,770
Speaker 2: you know, people don't survive gunshot wounds to the chest.

469
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:06,650
Speaker 2: They don't survive things that I had that I survived.

470
00:29:06,730 --> 00:29:10,380
Speaker 2: So there's no other way to describe it other than

471
00:29:10,990 --> 00:29:11,790
Speaker 2: a sheer miracle.

472
00:29:18,370 --> 00:29:21,150
Speaker 1: Hey friends, it's Katherine here. If you're trying to be

473
00:29:21,170 --> 00:29:25,150
Speaker 1: a godly parent in this wild and wacky world, you need.

474
00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:26,130
Speaker 4: All the help you can get.

475
00:29:26,650 --> 00:29:29,850
Speaker 1: And I've got you covered. When you subscribe to my website,

476
00:29:29,890 --> 00:29:33,670
Speaker 1: you'll get instant access to tons of free resources made

477
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:37,470
Speaker 1: just for Christian parents. You'll get my prodigal bundle, which

478
00:29:37,530 --> 00:29:40,830
Speaker 1: is packed with every podcast, article, and scripture list I've

479
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: created for parents walking that tough prodigal road. You'll also

480
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: get my free ebook, Beyond the Lies, uncovering five myths

481
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: the culture spreads to mothers. Plus, powerful scripture lists to

482
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,420
Speaker 1: pray over your kids and even scripture songs to help

483
00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: your family hide God's word in your hearts without even trying.

484
00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:02,430
Speaker 1: And of course, I'll keep you encouraged with my weekly

485
00:30:02,490 --> 00:30:06,510
Speaker 1: newsletter full of faith-filled pep talks and outlines of what

486
00:30:06,550 --> 00:30:09,530
Speaker 1: we're tackling each week on the show. So don't miss out.

487
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:15,270
Speaker 1: Head over to kathrynseegers.com. That's kathrynseegers.com. And subscribe today because

488
00:30:15,330 --> 00:30:18,390
Speaker 1: Christian parenting may be crazy, but you don't have to

489
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:22,970
Speaker 1: do it alone. No doubt.

490
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:23,450
Speaker 2: No doubt.

491
00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:28,100
Speaker 1: You know, I'm reminded of... Isaiah chapter 61, verse 3,

492
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: it talks about there being a spirit of despair. Some

493
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:34,420
Speaker 1: versions of scripture call it a spirit of heaviness. And

494
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,220
Speaker 1: what I see in the instances that I've encountered suicide

495
00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:44,580
Speaker 1: throughout my life and other families, it seems like this,

496
00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:48,980
Speaker 1: we talk about the physical aspects of what people go through,

497
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: and that's certainly a part of it. But there is

498
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,940
Speaker 1: a very spiritual battle in play here.

499
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: As well.

500
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,060
Speaker 1: And, and when you're describing it to me, you're describing

501
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: the seductive quality to it. And Kevin, the same thing,

502
00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:05,390
Speaker 1: the same exact thing. And then the instant, the instant

503
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:09,340
Speaker 1: you commit to the act, oh, it relieves the pressure. And,

504
00:31:10,270 --> 00:31:15,580
Speaker 1: and you realize that it, that we're not just physical beings.

505
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,060
Speaker 1: It's not just a physical battle. There's a very physical

506
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:22,580
Speaker 1: component to it, no doubt about it. There's brain chemistry

507
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,780
Speaker 1: involved that makes some people more susceptible.

508
00:31:27,460 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: But there's a.

509
00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:33,170
Speaker 1: Spiritual battle going on here. And honestly, it just makes

510
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:36,490
Speaker 1: me so angry at the enemy that he twists and

511
00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:40,630
Speaker 1: contorts and lures and tempts and suggests that this This

512
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:43,830
Speaker 1: action is what is going to relieve you. And yet

513
00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:46,709
Speaker 1: it's not what you want. And so I praise God.

514
00:31:46,790 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I praise God that you're still here with us today

515
00:31:49,540 --> 00:31:53,500
Speaker 1: to tell your story. You know, I'm reminded of David

516
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,500
Speaker 1: throughout the Psalms. He was clearly, clearly a very depressed man.

517
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: So I would like to talk to that aspect a

518
00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:03,739
Speaker 1: bit about it just a little bit. Jennifer, could you

519
00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:07,910
Speaker 1: talk to that? My frustration that I felt suffering from

520
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:12,510
Speaker 1: clinical depression and anxiety for nearly 20 years is that

521
00:32:12,570 --> 00:32:16,140
Speaker 1: the doctors would want to treat all the physical aspects

522
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: of it and ignore the spiritual. And yeah, I actually

523
00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: had one doctor say, well, if you don't want to

524
00:32:21,140 --> 00:32:23,290
Speaker 1: take this medicine, I can't help you. And the medicine

525
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:27,100
Speaker 1: wasn't working. And I'm like, it's not working. And I'm

526
00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:28,780
Speaker 1: all for medicine. I don't have a problem with that,

527
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:30,820
Speaker 1: but it wasn't working. And then you get in Christian

528
00:32:30,860 --> 00:32:33,220
Speaker 1: circles and they tell you the opposite. The Christian circles

529
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: will tell you, oh, we can just pray it away

530
00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: and you just need to have more faith. And they

531
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: ignore the physical aspects to it. Can you speak to

532
00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: that frustration a bit? Because I know I felt it

533
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: battling anxiety and depression for so long.

534
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:51,170
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And it's so confusing for people, especially Christians. What

535
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: do I do? Because they're getting maybe one message here

536
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,020
Speaker 3: and another message there. And first of all, let me

537
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,300
Speaker 3: just say, I'm so sorry that a doctor would say,

538
00:32:58,340 --> 00:33:01,260
Speaker 3: I can't help you if you won't take this pill.

539
00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:06,700
Speaker 3: So let me say the things that we're talking about, depression, anxiety,

540
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: and definitely the problem of suicidality that can go with

541
00:33:11,860 --> 00:33:15,300
Speaker 3: both of those or any other mental health problem is

542
00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: not just a mind problem. or a spirit issue. It's

543
00:33:19,220 --> 00:33:21,700
Speaker 3: a mind, body, spirit issue. All of them are, by

544
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,300
Speaker 3: the way, we are all whole beings. God created us

545
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,260
Speaker 3: to be mind, body, spirit. And if you leave out

546
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: any one aspect of that, then you're not treating the

547
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,170
Speaker 3: whole person. And so the best approach is really to

548
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:40,850
Speaker 3: approach all three. For many people, there is a biological

549
00:33:41,370 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 3: component to depression or anxiety. But that's not all there is.

550
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,690
Speaker 3: And there are people who struggle terribly with depression or

551
00:33:49,770 --> 00:33:54,870
Speaker 3: anxiety that it's really not biological. And the things that

552
00:33:54,930 --> 00:33:57,350
Speaker 3: we have thought in the mental health field for years

553
00:33:57,430 --> 00:34:00,950
Speaker 3: that depression is really serotonin-based, we're starting to question that

554
00:34:00,970 --> 00:34:03,890
Speaker 3: because some of the new studies are showing, oh, maybe

555
00:34:03,950 --> 00:34:06,500
Speaker 3: we can't really verify the link that we thought was

556
00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:10,420
Speaker 3: there to certain neurotransmitters. And so what we know is

557
00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: that it can look different for every person. But what

558
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,410
Speaker 3: we know is that for every person, there are some

559
00:34:16,530 --> 00:34:20,850
Speaker 3: physical aspects. So you need to address the physical. And

560
00:34:21,010 --> 00:34:23,190
Speaker 3: as a Christian counselor, the first thing I do with

561
00:34:23,350 --> 00:34:25,950
Speaker 3: any client is I want you to go to your doctor,

562
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: your family physician, your internal medicine doctor and get a

563
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 3: full physical workup and a blood panel because there's so

564
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,700
Speaker 3: many things that can influence that. But you've got to

565
00:34:35,739 --> 00:34:38,270
Speaker 3: talk about counseling and you do have to talk about

566
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:41,300
Speaker 3: the spiritual because Like we've just been talking about, I'm convinced,

567
00:34:41,420 --> 00:34:44,109
Speaker 3: like you, that while there is a mental health explanation

568
00:34:44,469 --> 00:34:47,770
Speaker 3: for depression, anxiety, and suicide, When it comes to that

569
00:34:47,850 --> 00:34:51,170
Speaker 3: point of actually attempting suicide or ending your life, you

570
00:34:51,210 --> 00:34:54,290
Speaker 3: won't convince me that there's not a spiritual component as

571
00:34:54,350 --> 00:34:59,770
Speaker 3: well and that there's warfare. And that voice that Kevin heard,

572
00:34:59,830 --> 00:35:02,810
Speaker 3: that seduction power you're talking about, I absolutely believe it's

573
00:35:02,890 --> 00:35:07,140
Speaker 3: Satan who wants more than anything for people to end

574
00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:11,060
Speaker 3: their lives. I do think that is that seductive piece

575
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 3: of that. So I think it's approaching it from body, mind,

576
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:18,950
Speaker 3: and spirit, but also then really respecting that individual and

577
00:35:19,310 --> 00:35:23,750
Speaker 3: where they're coming from emotionally, spiritually, physically, and working with

578
00:35:23,830 --> 00:35:28,180
Speaker 3: them to attack what's going on with their mental health

579
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 3: on all fronts. And so I think there is a

580
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: component and the best approach is to treat the whole person.

581
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: That means look at the medical things. And for some

582
00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:44,109
Speaker 3: people that will maybe mean trying some medication, but Let

583
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:47,049
Speaker 3: me just also mention, and I say this a lot

584
00:35:47,090 --> 00:35:50,130
Speaker 3: when I speak about depression, this is across age groups,

585
00:35:50,969 --> 00:35:57,100
Speaker 3: that most research studies show that physical exercise, physical activity,

586
00:35:57,180 --> 00:36:00,900
Speaker 3: moderate physical exercise three to four times a week is

587
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 3: as effective or more effective in clinical studies at treating

588
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,569
Speaker 3: depression than antidepressant medication. So The medicine is not the

589
00:36:10,830 --> 00:36:13,770
Speaker 3: only answer. Now, for some people, they may need that.

590
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 3: And like you said, for some people, it really works.

591
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:18,940
Speaker 3: And I don't want people to just assume that that's

592
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,500
Speaker 3: not helpful or that they shouldn't listen to a doctor

593
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 3: and maybe try it. But I've had a lot of

594
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,790
Speaker 3: clients who tried antidepressants and like you, they didn't work.

595
00:36:28,469 --> 00:36:32,890
Speaker 3: Anxiety is even harder to medicate because Some of the

596
00:36:32,969 --> 00:36:37,060
Speaker 3: anti-anxiety medications also have a really powerful addictive quality that

597
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:41,859
Speaker 3: we don't want people, especially young people, to have. So

598
00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 3: we do have to be willing to explore other things.

599
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:52,299
Speaker 3: But diet, exercise, prayer, definitely counseling, and then other approaches,

600
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,170
Speaker 3: other lifestyle approaches. And let me just mention one thing.

601
00:36:55,290 --> 00:36:57,870
Speaker 3: I don't want to get ahead of things here, but

602
00:36:58,350 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 3: what we also know contributes for younger people. is the

603
00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: amount of screen time that they are, the amount of

604
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,890
Speaker 3: time that they're on social media, Facebook, Instagram, their phones

605
00:37:10,410 --> 00:37:15,810
Speaker 3: on screens, the higher the screen time, it really correlates

606
00:37:15,850 --> 00:37:19,790
Speaker 3: with higher levels of depression and anxiety. And so that's

607
00:37:19,850 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: another thing, a lifestyle intervention is can we start to

608
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,140
Speaker 3: limit the amount of screen time for ourselves? And this is,

609
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 3: by the way, across age groups, not just young people,

610
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 3: but help young people. find other things that they can

611
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:37,170
Speaker 3: participate in and limit that amount of screen time. Because

612
00:37:37,330 --> 00:37:39,710
Speaker 3: I know it's a factor. We're not going to lump

613
00:37:39,790 --> 00:37:46,430
Speaker 3: everything on social media because it's multi-factors. There are many,

614
00:37:46,989 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: but there are so many things that contribute that we

615
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,380
Speaker 3: need to be looking at all of those.

616
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 2: Yes.

617
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:56,830
Speaker 1: I love the way you put that. Thank you so much. Yeah. I,

618
00:37:57,670 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: I got so frustrated in my journey, like I said, and, and,

619
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, medications did help for a bit, but I,

620
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: I had what, you know, I was back in the

621
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,549
Speaker 1: Prozac day and, you know, they had Prozac burnout and

622
00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:14,989
Speaker 1: it just stopped working. And, and that frustration, and you're

623
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:18,210
Speaker 1: so right. I finally did get into a good exercise

624
00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:23,420
Speaker 1: regime that helped so much. Diet helped a lot. Cognitive

625
00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:26,180
Speaker 1: behavioral therapy. I did that for a while for anxiety.

626
00:38:26,219 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: That was helpful. But honestly, there were some deep spiritual

627
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,339
Speaker 1: wounds that the Lord healed me of that it was

628
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:34,710
Speaker 1: kind of a cesspool deep inside of me. And when

629
00:38:34,770 --> 00:38:38,630
Speaker 1: that cesspool got cleaned out, didn't fix all the brain chemistry,

630
00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:42,170
Speaker 1: but it fixed what the brain chemistry was feeding on

631
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:46,570
Speaker 1: for me. That was my journey. And when I praise God,

632
00:38:46,590 --> 00:38:48,730
Speaker 1: I can say this. I was on medication for 17

633
00:38:48,730 --> 00:38:52,250
Speaker 1: years when God cleaned that out and I allowed him to,

634
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:54,469
Speaker 1: he had been, you know, kind of pressing me to

635
00:38:54,510 --> 00:38:56,469
Speaker 1: do that for a long time. When he cleaned that out,

636
00:38:57,050 --> 00:39:00,140
Speaker 1: I was able to go off and manage without it.

637
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,339
Speaker 1: Not that I don't still have issues sometimes, but I'm,

638
00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. So I know that there's hope. And here's,

639
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: here's what I know. God has a plan to deliver everyone.

640
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:12,290
Speaker 1: He does. He has a plan. We have to submit

641
00:39:12,330 --> 00:39:16,010
Speaker 1: to his prescription, whatever that means, though. So let's talk

642
00:39:16,070 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: about then some of those proactive things. You've already mentioned

643
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:20,969
Speaker 1: some of them, Jennifer. Let's talk to Emma for just

644
00:39:20,969 --> 00:39:24,420
Speaker 1: a few minutes about what would you say to another

645
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: young young person another teenager or young adult who might

646
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,140
Speaker 1: be thinking about committing suicide what would you tell them.

647
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,270
Speaker 2: It's not over yet do not let go just yet

648
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:42,489
Speaker 2: it's not over yet it's okay to feel that way

649
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:45,570
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with you because you want to die

650
00:39:46,610 --> 00:39:48,569
Speaker 2: I know if someone would have told me that it

651
00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: really I feel like would have made a huge difference.

652
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: I carried so much shame behind my thoughts and my feelings.

653
00:39:57,969 --> 00:40:00,670
Speaker 2: And I want young people to know if you're there,

654
00:40:00,790 --> 00:40:04,529
Speaker 2: if you're in that place, it's okay, but it's not

655
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:07,410
Speaker 2: the end. And you can get through this. You absolutely

656
00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:12,009
Speaker 2: have every ability and tool to get through this. You

657
00:40:12,050 --> 00:40:14,460
Speaker 2: just have to reach out for help. You just have

658
00:40:15,460 --> 00:40:18,009
Speaker 2: to lean into hope. even though it might not feel

659
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:20,709
Speaker 2: like there's anything to be hopeful for, or there's nothing

660
00:40:20,730 --> 00:40:23,870
Speaker 2: to look forward to, or like you're permanently stuck like this,

661
00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:28,250
Speaker 2: I promise you, it gets better. Just hang in there.

662
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:33,089
Speaker 2: It gets better. And hope is so real. I'm so

663
00:40:33,130 --> 00:40:36,550
Speaker 2: glad that I finally can see that hope is real.

664
00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:40,150
Speaker 2: Even whenever I'm having a rough patch or in a

665
00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:43,049
Speaker 2: moment of despair, I still have hope because I know

666
00:40:43,070 --> 00:40:46,380
Speaker 2: that it's better. So I want every young person to

667
00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:49,050
Speaker 2: know that it's not over yet and it gets better.

668
00:40:50,090 --> 00:40:53,690
Speaker 1: What would you say is the single most important thing

669
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:55,650
Speaker 1: that has helped on your road to recovery?

670
00:40:57,910 --> 00:41:00,049
Speaker 2: The best piece of advice that I heard when I

671
00:41:00,070 --> 00:41:05,030
Speaker 2: was going through therapy after the attempt was it's okay

672
00:41:05,110 --> 00:41:08,390
Speaker 2: not to know where you're going. It's okay not to

673
00:41:08,450 --> 00:41:11,430
Speaker 2: have it all figured out. Kids put so much pressure

674
00:41:11,489 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: on themselves, especially in our modern day society where Everything

675
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: is instant gratification, instant this, instant that, you know, success

676
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:23,989
Speaker 2: is like the best thing to a kid. You know, this,

677
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:28,049
Speaker 2: it's this image of, you know, stress-free life. And there's

678
00:41:28,090 --> 00:41:31,310
Speaker 2: so much pressure on our youth today. And so I

679
00:41:31,370 --> 00:41:35,030
Speaker 2: want kids to know, take off that pressure. It's okay

680
00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:37,210
Speaker 2: not to know what you want to do with the

681
00:41:37,230 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: rest of your life. It's okay not to know what

682
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 2: things you truly have a passion for. It's okay. You

683
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,730
Speaker 2: have time. give yourself grace and give yourself the space

684
00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: to just grow, like grow with life. That would be,

685
00:41:53,460 --> 00:41:57,450
Speaker 2: that was the best advice that I heard because it,

686
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: it really just spoke to me. You know, I had

687
00:42:00,340 --> 00:42:05,500
Speaker 2: never heard a piece of advice address directly to the

688
00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:09,210
Speaker 2: thing that like always constantly plagued me and bothered me.

689
00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:13,620
Speaker 2: So when I heard that when I was 16, 17,

690
00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: It really made a difference. So I hope that by

691
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,660
Speaker 2: hearing that it can help young people to know that,

692
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:22,850
Speaker 2: you know, you have time. Just give yourself space and

693
00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:24,530
Speaker 2: grace and it's OK.

694
00:42:26,610 --> 00:42:29,930
Speaker 1: So, Jennifer, you talked earlier a little bit about some

695
00:42:29,950 --> 00:42:32,989
Speaker 1: of the things we might see in younger children. Are

696
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:35,290
Speaker 1: those the same kind of signs we would see in

697
00:42:35,410 --> 00:42:39,180
Speaker 1: older children today? that might be contemplating suicide or does

698
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,140
Speaker 1: that look different in a, in a child that was

699
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: Emma's age?

700
00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:47,430
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can look different certainly with teens, but what

701
00:42:47,469 --> 00:42:49,450
Speaker 3: we see some additional things that can be some of

702
00:42:49,489 --> 00:42:55,590
Speaker 3: those things, but also withdrawal from family and friends. And

703
00:42:55,630 --> 00:43:00,580
Speaker 3: then also, so starting at that age, maybe some issues

704
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,070
Speaker 3: with substance abuse, substance use or abuse and, as well

705
00:43:05,219 --> 00:43:07,930
Speaker 3: as one of the big caveats is maybe any kind

706
00:43:07,950 --> 00:43:12,029
Speaker 3: of self-harm. If you've heard of cutting or non-suicidal self-injury,

707
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:14,690
Speaker 3: those are all some signs, mostly that we see in

708
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:19,730
Speaker 3: older kids, older teens or young adults, in addition to

709
00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:22,310
Speaker 3: those same things that we saw in younger kids. But

710
00:43:22,350 --> 00:43:26,150
Speaker 3: let me also mention something that I just think is critical,

711
00:43:26,170 --> 00:43:28,850
Speaker 3: and we've sort of all danced around it, and that

712
00:43:28,910 --> 00:43:34,330
Speaker 3: is being able to talk about feelings and emotions. And

713
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:37,790
Speaker 3: we hear a lot in certainly in mental health fields,

714
00:43:38,330 --> 00:43:42,569
Speaker 3: this term of emotional intelligence. And what that really means

715
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: is from a young age, from little kids, we need

716
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 3: to encourage them to talk about their feelings, be able

717
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:54,940
Speaker 3: to identify the feelings they're feeling, and then put language

718
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,970
Speaker 3: to it and normalize it. When I'm sad, when I'm angry,

719
00:43:59,150 --> 00:44:03,430
Speaker 3: and then as they get older, maybe more nuanced emotions,

720
00:44:03,550 --> 00:44:07,410
Speaker 3: like I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling like a failure

721
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:10,819
Speaker 3: or I'm having all this anxiety about not being the

722
00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:11,959
Speaker 3: level of success.

723
00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:12,180
Speaker 2: I need to be.

724
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, I think as a society, we don't normalize

725
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,420
Speaker 3: feelings the way we should. The truth is every person

726
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: of every age has feelings, both positive and negative. There

727
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: are times when we feel sad or scared or upset

728
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,890
Speaker 3: or depressed or anxious. But it's how we're able to

729
00:44:31,950 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: then talk about that openly and honestly, have that normalized

730
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:39,460
Speaker 3: and validated. But then also something that Emma mentioned is

731
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,420
Speaker 3: help teach young people of all ages. What are the

732
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,100
Speaker 3: healthy ways to cope when we have those feelings? How

733
00:44:47,140 --> 00:44:50,110
Speaker 3: do we comfort or soothe ourselves in ways that are

734
00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:54,290
Speaker 3: healthy versus unhealthy so that people don't have to mask them,

735
00:44:54,610 --> 00:44:57,870
Speaker 3: but we know the things that we can do that

736
00:44:57,950 --> 00:45:01,100
Speaker 3: then can help us feel better, but we also don't

737
00:45:01,180 --> 00:45:05,470
Speaker 3: feel alone, isolated, or the shame and stigma of having

738
00:45:05,739 --> 00:45:10,590
Speaker 3: those sad feelings because guess what? We all do. Everybody does.

739
00:45:10,690 --> 00:45:13,830
Speaker 3: And to sort of this image that we have of

740
00:45:13,969 --> 00:45:17,290
Speaker 3: picture-perfect lives of people that are always happy and joyful,

741
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:20,650
Speaker 3: that is unrealistic across the board. Let's just be honest.

742
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:23,779
Speaker 3: That's not real. That's not real in churches. That's not

743
00:45:23,820 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: real in our families. That's just not real. And we

744
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:31,500
Speaker 3: are doing a very poor job, I believe, across all

745
00:45:31,540 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 3: levels in society of teaching people how to cope with

746
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: those bad, sad feelings and anxiety. Come on, with the

747
00:45:39,100 --> 00:45:42,870
Speaker 3: world we're living in, we all, even those of us

748
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:45,630
Speaker 3: who have great faith in Jesus, we have moments where

749
00:45:45,650 --> 00:45:49,230
Speaker 3: we're going, I'm scared. This is looking pretty dark out

750
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:52,210
Speaker 3: there or things are pretty rough. Look at the economy

751
00:45:52,330 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: or look at all the violence and you.

752
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: Know, it's okay.

753
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 3: It's okay to have those feelings and also know then

754
00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: what to do with it. The things that we do,

755
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,370
Speaker 3: talk to other people, pray, read scripture, listen to music,

756
00:46:06,510 --> 00:46:09,790
Speaker 3: do things with others in our life, get engaged in

757
00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:14,310
Speaker 3: having real relationships with people that make us feel safe

758
00:46:14,469 --> 00:46:17,410
Speaker 3: and better and are able to really listen to what

759
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:19,770
Speaker 3: we're going through and support us through that.

760
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:20,810
Speaker 4: Yeah.

761
00:46:20,850 --> 00:46:22,910
Speaker 1: You know, I think a large part of the problem,

762
00:46:22,969 --> 00:46:27,549
Speaker 1: and Emma, grew up in a different world than I

763
00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:31,950
Speaker 1: did and you did. We don't have these picture perfect lives,

764
00:46:32,010 --> 00:46:35,610
Speaker 1: but according to Instagram and Facebook, we do. So it

765
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: looks that way on the outside. So it's easy. It's

766
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: a lot easier, I think, for a child in this

767
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,660
Speaker 1: generation to say, well, that's not how I feel on

768
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: the inside because that's look what everybody else's life looks like.

769
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,410
Speaker 1: But none of their lives are like that. It's just

770
00:46:50,469 --> 00:46:53,710
Speaker 1: a facade. It's just a veneer. And I love you

771
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:56,770
Speaker 1: keep anticipating exactly where I'm going, Jennifer. We're on the

772
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:59,390
Speaker 1: same wavelength. My next question, which I think you just answered,

773
00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: was how to get our kids to open up emotionally.

774
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:05,940
Speaker 1: Because it's like you said, we aren't talking about our feelings.

775
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,419
Speaker 1: So I think you just spoke to that. But what

776
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: should we do then as parents when we see, okay,

777
00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:16,540
Speaker 1: this child really is struggling. This child is in trouble.

778
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,259
Speaker 1: What steps should we take when we know we've got

779
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,969
Speaker 1: a child who maybe contemplating suicide.

780
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: Well, and it depends on if you just say they're

781
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 3: struggling or they're contemplating suicide. And I do want to

782
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 3: go to Emma's story next because I think it is

783
00:47:41,390 --> 00:47:44,270
Speaker 3: important for her to speak to this. But if you

784
00:47:44,330 --> 00:47:46,989
Speaker 3: just know that your child is struggling, then you want

785
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:49,049
Speaker 3: to talk to them about it. Again, in a way

786
00:47:49,090 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 3: that's not shaming or accusatory, but bring it up to

787
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 3: them in a way that says, I love you and

788
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: I want to help in any way I can. Let's

789
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 3: talk about this and then get them help in a

790
00:48:01,950 --> 00:48:06,790
Speaker 3: way that feels safe to them. And that can honestly

791
00:48:06,969 --> 00:48:11,770
Speaker 3: so much can be accomplished just by acknowledging and validating

792
00:48:11,810 --> 00:48:14,340
Speaker 3: their feelings and saying, I'm going to help you with it.

793
00:48:14,450 --> 00:48:17,630
Speaker 3: And we are going to approach this together. But if

794
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:21,219
Speaker 3: the the young person is actually suicidal, then you have

795
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:25,180
Speaker 3: to sort of, if there's a threat of imminent harm,

796
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: if the young person is suicidal, then there's some other

797
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: steps to take. You definitely want to consult a mental

798
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,550
Speaker 3: health professional right away and get that person, that young person,

799
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:37,649
Speaker 3: no matter what age, in to see a counselor. You

800
00:48:37,710 --> 00:48:41,230
Speaker 3: may want to make sure then that they are physically

801
00:48:41,310 --> 00:48:46,130
Speaker 3: safe by taking lethal means that might be available in

802
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:48,700
Speaker 3: the home and out of the home. If there are guns,

803
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: get them locked up or out of the home, preferably.

804
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 3: If there's any medication that they could use to harm themselves,

805
00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: making sure that is taken away. And then just putting

806
00:49:00,460 --> 00:49:03,060
Speaker 3: some safety protocols around them if there's imminent threat. And

807
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 3: by the way, there are suicide hotlines I'm sure you're

808
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:10,339
Speaker 3: going to have information on. And now there are ways

809
00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:15,259
Speaker 3: that you can text and just easy ways for young

810
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 3: people to access 24 seven suicide crisis lines, if that's

811
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,020
Speaker 3: an imminent threat. So again, it depends on how much

812
00:49:24,060 --> 00:49:26,180
Speaker 3: of a crisis this is, but I would love for

813
00:49:26,260 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 3: Emma to speak to that because I know that, you know,

814
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,049
Speaker 3: in retrospect, she has a lot to say on what

815
00:49:33,210 --> 00:49:35,870
Speaker 3: would have made a difference maybe for her at different

816
00:49:36,190 --> 00:49:37,090
Speaker 3: points in her journey.

817
00:49:38,090 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think everything that you were just mentioning a

818
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: minute ago, Jennifer, could have been things that could have

819
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:48,900
Speaker 2: been positive factors that may have made my story look

820
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,259
Speaker 2: a little different. So growing up, mental health was completely stigmatized.

821
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: I grew up in an environment that you don't talk

822
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,219
Speaker 2: about your feelings and you don't really feel your feelings even.

823
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: You get rid of them or you suppress them or

824
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: you compartmentalize them to keep going and moving forward with

825
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,509
Speaker 2: your life. because your busy life is the priority, not

826
00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:15,090
Speaker 2: your feelings or what you're thinking. So that's kind of

827
00:50:15,110 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: the reality that I grew up in. So naturally, as

828
00:50:18,900 --> 00:50:22,180
Speaker 2: I got older, talking about my feelings, talking about the

829
00:50:22,219 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: way things affected me emotionally and mentally was so foreign,

830
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,850
Speaker 2: and it was so uncomfortable. So I never did. And

831
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:35,090
Speaker 2: I certainly didn't want people to view me as someone

832
00:50:35,130 --> 00:50:39,850
Speaker 2: who was damaged or someone who struggled mentally or emotionally

833
00:50:40,170 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 2: because of that stigma. Because I grew up thinking that

834
00:50:44,660 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: only certain types of people deal with these types of issues.

835
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,140
Speaker 2: And I'm not one of those types of people. I

836
00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: grew up thinking that suicide is not a part of

837
00:50:53,780 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: my family. It's just not in our family. And so

838
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,750
Speaker 2: I grew up very naive to all of these real

839
00:50:59,790 --> 00:51:06,859
Speaker 2: realities when it I feel like had the environment been

840
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:09,020
Speaker 2: a little bit different for me growing up, had there

841
00:51:09,060 --> 00:51:12,580
Speaker 2: been more conversations when I got home from school that

842
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,060
Speaker 2: looked like, how was your mental health today? Did you

843
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: have any big feelings that you want to talk about

844
00:51:17,460 --> 00:51:19,940
Speaker 2: as opposed to what did you learn? How was school?

845
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:24,140
Speaker 2: Because like we've been talking about, young people are smart.

846
00:51:24,580 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: They know what they can tell their parent just to

847
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: get them to stop bothering them. And so I went

848
00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: through those motions, you know, and say, oh, it was fine.

849
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,299
Speaker 2: It's fine. Because A, I didn't want to talk about

850
00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: it because I didn't know how. And B, I didn't

851
00:51:38,780 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: think anyone would care or listen to acknowledge it and

852
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,989
Speaker 2: validate it. So I think having just the environment be

853
00:51:47,050 --> 00:51:53,570
Speaker 2: completely different and recognizing that mental health and suicide doesn't

854
00:51:53,610 --> 00:51:56,990
Speaker 2: have a face, a race, a class, a gender identity.

855
00:51:57,030 --> 00:52:00,660
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. A faith base, it doesn't. It's a

856
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,049
Speaker 2: human thing that human beings go through and experience. I

857
00:52:05,090 --> 00:52:08,630
Speaker 2: think really would have made a difference just overall humanizing

858
00:52:09,410 --> 00:52:14,310
Speaker 2: humans again and teaching myself and my brother that, you know,

859
00:52:14,430 --> 00:52:19,250
Speaker 2: feelings are valid and no feeling is something that needs

860
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:23,650
Speaker 2: to be ignored. It could have been helpful. And also

861
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:27,049
Speaker 2: I want to make this statement because I truly think

862
00:52:27,130 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: that had the environment been like that when I was

863
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,540
Speaker 2: growing up, then I think that if someone would have

864
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:38,060
Speaker 2: asked me, are you having thoughts of suicide? Have you

865
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: ever had a thought of harming yourself? Um, that I

866
00:52:41,420 --> 00:52:46,820
Speaker 2: would have certainly opened up about it. Um, because ultimately

867
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,140
Speaker 2: that was such a scary thing for me in the

868
00:52:49,180 --> 00:52:52,049
Speaker 2: moment when I was having those types of thoughts, um,

869
00:52:52,110 --> 00:52:55,350
Speaker 2: that if someone would have approached me and said, Hey,

870
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:58,210
Speaker 2: you know, what's going on? Are you, you know, just

871
00:52:58,350 --> 00:53:01,370
Speaker 2: ask me the question, are you having thoughts of suicide?

872
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: it would have made it 10 times more real. And

873
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: I think it would have prevented me from making the decision.

874
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:10,779
Speaker 1: Wow. Just asking you point blank like that.

875
00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

876
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting when I got the trailer for

877
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: my Ascension in my mailbox and you know, we've got

878
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,140
Speaker 1: five kids, we homeschool, we're crazy busy. And let me

879
00:53:21,180 --> 00:53:23,780
Speaker 1: just speak very quickly. One of the things we've done

880
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,980
Speaker 1: with a couple of my kids that one of them

881
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: struggles with anxiety and my kids have some, you know,

882
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: ADHD things. And They were asking for help. And so

883
00:53:32,489 --> 00:53:34,529
Speaker 1: it took a long time. It was very hard to

884
00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:38,220
Speaker 1: search out and find someone that are in better insurance

885
00:53:38,260 --> 00:53:41,020
Speaker 1: even covered it. And so we've been able to find

886
00:53:41,060 --> 00:53:44,340
Speaker 1: some places where they can go and get counseling for anxiety,

887
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 1: get some learning strategies for the areas where they're struggling.

888
00:53:48,660 --> 00:53:50,580
Speaker 1: So I would encourage parents to do that too, to

889
00:53:50,620 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 1: check into what your insurance may offer in terms of counseling,

890
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: Christian counseling even, we were able to find. So that's

891
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,330
Speaker 1: a good choice. But my daughter who struggles with anxiety

892
00:54:00,390 --> 00:54:04,569
Speaker 1: after I got the trailer and watched that, I'm like,

893
00:54:05,170 --> 00:54:07,870
Speaker 1: we need to have a talk. Again, we do talk,

894
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:11,210
Speaker 1: but it had been a little while, we're busy. And

895
00:54:11,230 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: I went up in her room and I sat down.

896
00:54:13,660 --> 00:54:16,810
Speaker 1: I'm like, how are you doing? how's it going? How's

897
00:54:16,850 --> 00:54:19,990
Speaker 1: the anxiety? And I did ask her point blank, kind

898
00:54:20,010 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: of like you suggested, have you ever thought about harming yourself?

899
00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:25,339
Speaker 2: She's like, what do you mean?

900
00:54:25,380 --> 00:54:25,860
Speaker 3: Like cutting?

901
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,620
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, yeah. Have you ever thought about that?

902
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: And she's like, I've thought about it. And I'm like, well,

903
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,990
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about doing something more permanent? And

904
00:54:33,260 --> 00:54:36,129
Speaker 1: she told me, she's like, mom, no, I, you know,

905
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:40,469
Speaker 1: there've been times when I've felt despair. I haven't wanted

906
00:54:40,489 --> 00:54:42,550
Speaker 1: to live, but I, you know, because of the anxiety

907
00:54:42,590 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: being so bad, but she hasn't thought about doing that.

908
00:54:45,780 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: But that was a good conversation to have. And I'm like, look,

909
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:54,210
Speaker 1: if you do have those feelings or thoughts, you're not alone.

910
00:54:54,910 --> 00:54:57,170
Speaker 1: I felt them. Many people have felt them. And we

911
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:59,390
Speaker 1: sat down and we watched the film together and talked

912
00:54:59,430 --> 00:55:03,270
Speaker 1: about it. So I think it's a very good thing.

913
00:55:03,310 --> 00:55:05,810
Speaker 1: I've talked about it with several of my kids. Is

914
00:55:05,850 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: this something you have thought about? And I think what

915
00:55:09,940 --> 00:55:11,900
Speaker 1: I'm hearing you say, one of the things that would

916
00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: help a lot is knowing Other people feel this way.

917
00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:20,300
Speaker 1: Other people have thought these thoughts. Other people have battled

918
00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 1: through them. They have gained victory. And they are not

919
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: in that hopeless place forever. So before we end today,

920
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:31,339
Speaker 1: I know my audience is going to want to know,

921
00:55:31,450 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: how are you doing now, Emma? Can you tell us

922
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,489
Speaker 1: a little bit about your physical recovery? Yeah.

923
00:55:36,550 --> 00:55:41,850
Speaker 2: So now physically, I am able to walk on my walker.

924
00:55:42,030 --> 00:55:46,189
Speaker 2: I have regained about 80% of my abilities since going

925
00:55:46,210 --> 00:55:49,390
Speaker 2: into the hospital, which when I was brought to the hospital,

926
00:55:49,469 --> 00:55:52,890
Speaker 2: I was paralyzed from the neck down. And so I've

927
00:55:53,010 --> 00:55:56,989
Speaker 2: regained 80% of my abilities and I have full sensation

928
00:55:57,010 --> 00:56:02,060
Speaker 2: throughout my entire body. And yeah, I have just made

929
00:56:02,100 --> 00:56:05,660
Speaker 2: so much progress in my recovery journey physically. And that too,

930
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 2: I can only attest and attribute to God himself because

931
00:56:09,260 --> 00:56:11,500
Speaker 2: the leaps and bounds that I've had to, you know,

932
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,180
Speaker 2: overcome have truly been just a testament of his faithfulness

933
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:15,700
Speaker 2: in my life.

934
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 3: Life.

935
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:21,060
Speaker 2: And I can drive normally without any adaptations to my vehicle,

936
00:56:21,100 --> 00:56:23,980
Speaker 2: which was a huge stepping stone and goal for me.

937
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 2: And I live independently. So it's just been truly an

938
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,690
Speaker 2: amazing journey and one that I can look back and

939
00:56:32,730 --> 00:56:36,390
Speaker 2: reflect on and just see God's hands all up in it.

940
00:56:36,530 --> 00:56:40,370
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I'm doing great now. I share my

941
00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:44,750
Speaker 2: story with so much gratitude in my heart and I

942
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:47,710
Speaker 2: have so much Much hope for the future. I truly do.

943
00:56:47,830 --> 00:56:51,469
Speaker 2: And I feel each and every day more and more

944
00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:55,710
Speaker 2: blessed to not only still be here, but to have

945
00:56:56,190 --> 00:56:59,770
Speaker 2: such a strong passion and something I truly feel is

946
00:56:59,910 --> 00:57:03,830
Speaker 2: a calling. So I'm doing really well and I'm super

947
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: happy and grateful.

948
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,460
Speaker 1: I remember at one point in the film, it was

949
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:10,419
Speaker 1: one of the, I think, most dramatic points of the film.

950
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,940
Speaker 1: You said you asked God why he was doing this

951
00:57:12,980 --> 00:57:16,660
Speaker 1: to you. Can you just tell his response to you very,

952
00:57:16,940 --> 00:57:17,420
Speaker 1: very quickly?

953
00:57:17,980 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was in a mess of a situation on

954
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: one day in the hospital. And I just remember shouting

955
00:57:25,820 --> 00:57:27,790
Speaker 2: up to God and just saying, why are you doing

956
00:57:27,810 --> 00:57:30,750
Speaker 2: this to me? You know, I just wanted to escape

957
00:57:31,610 --> 00:57:34,430
Speaker 2: the stress and the pain and you've just added more.

958
00:57:34,910 --> 00:57:36,890
Speaker 2: I'm glad you kept me here, but why did you

959
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:39,169
Speaker 2: leave me like this? You know, why did you leave

960
00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:43,260
Speaker 2: me with this broken body? And he said, well, I'm

961
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:48,380
Speaker 2: not punishing you. I'm rewarding you be patient. And those

962
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:55,050
Speaker 2: words stuck with me so hard. And, um, actually after

963
00:57:55,610 --> 00:57:58,490
Speaker 2: that experience and that encounter is when I decided to

964
00:57:58,550 --> 00:58:02,210
Speaker 2: just dive into my faith and really lean into it.

965
00:58:02,380 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: And so, yeah. Hmm.

966
00:58:05,290 --> 00:58:08,250
Speaker 1: Well, can you tell our audience then where they can

967
00:58:08,290 --> 00:58:10,830
Speaker 1: find out more about your journey and your mission and

968
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:15,410
Speaker 1: ministry and My Ascension, the documentary that chronicles your story?

969
00:58:16,590 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: Yes, certainly. So if you want to learn more about

970
00:58:18,820 --> 00:58:21,380
Speaker 2: the documentary film, you can check us out. We have

971
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 2: a website. It's www.myascension.us. And we're also on Facebook. So

972
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 2: you can give us a thumbs up or a like

973
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,660
Speaker 2: on Facebook to follow along on what we've been doing.

974
00:58:33,150 --> 00:58:36,530
Speaker 2: The documentary film is a feature length film that currently

975
00:58:36,590 --> 00:58:40,090
Speaker 2: is being shown to community events and high school students

976
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: as well as middle school students. But it's been truly

977
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: one of the greatest additions to this journey has been

978
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: the film. And it's been a great tool to be

979
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 2: able to talk about these things and spark these conversations

980
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,070
Speaker 2: with kids. So if you're interested in learning more, like

981
00:58:56,110 --> 00:58:59,270
Speaker 2: I said, check us out. It's my ascension.us and my

982
00:58:59,290 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: ascension on Facebook. Hmm.

983
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: And Jennifer, likewise, can you tell us how they can

984
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: find out more about your work and the American Association

985
00:59:07,300 --> 00:59:09,970
Speaker 1: of Christian Counselors and their suicide prevention programs?

986
00:59:11,060 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 4: Yes.

987
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 3: Our website is aacc.net. That's aacc.net for the American Association

988
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,020
Speaker 3: of Christian Counselors. And we have many, many resources. We

989
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:25,340
Speaker 3: actually did a virtual screening of the My Ascension film

990
00:59:25,420 --> 00:59:30,130
Speaker 3: for our memberships. And I know we're planning to actually

991
00:59:30,170 --> 00:59:32,590
Speaker 3: have a panel discussion with Emma. And I'm sure we're

992
00:59:32,610 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 3: going to be including Emma in some of our other

993
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 3: events and things like that. But they can find out

994
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 3: information about the Hope Focus 3R Suicide Prevention Program that

995
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,070
Speaker 3: you mentioned. We have both a general version and then

996
00:59:46,090 --> 00:59:50,710
Speaker 3: we also now have a youth version that's available at aacc.net.

997
00:59:51,490 --> 00:59:51,650
Speaker 2: Wow.

998
00:59:52,510 --> 00:59:54,750
Speaker 1: Emma and Jennifer, I just cannot thank you enough for

999
00:59:54,850 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: joining me today. Emma, thank you for sharing your heart

1000
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: and your story. And Jennifer, thank you for sharing your expertise.

1001
01:00:02,500 --> 01:00:06,100
Speaker 1: It is my fervent prayer that your work and even

1002
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,990
Speaker 1: this single episode of Christian Parent Crazy World will save

1003
01:00:09,050 --> 01:00:13,870
Speaker 1: lives and it will point people towards freedom in Christ.

1004
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:15,130
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1005
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:19,940
Speaker 1: Moms and dads, if there is one thing I hope

1006
01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:24,620
Speaker 1: you take away from this episode, it's this. Engage with

1007
01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:29,740
Speaker 1: your kids. Talk to them often. Have those heart-to-heart conversations.

1008
01:00:29,940 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: Ask the uncomfortable questions. Don't be afraid to go deeper

1009
01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:40,100
Speaker 1: when something doesn't seem quite right. And above all else, pray.

1010
01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:43,230
Speaker 1: You know, I've put together a list of scriptures that

1011
01:00:43,290 --> 01:00:46,430
Speaker 1: you can pray over a child or really anyone you

1012
01:00:46,510 --> 01:00:51,890
Speaker 1: love who is battling anxiety, depression, or any form of

1013
01:00:52,010 --> 01:00:55,580
Speaker 1: mental illness. I've offered those Bible verses as a free

1014
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,700
Speaker 1: resource when you subscribe at my website at katherineseegers.com. And

1015
01:00:59,740 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: if you're already a subscriber, simply open the email about

1016
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,510
Speaker 1: this episode and you will find that resource there. And

1017
01:01:07,730 --> 01:01:10,330
Speaker 1: by the way, that resource is actually attached to every

1018
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:13,050
Speaker 1: email I send out. I have a section with all

1019
01:01:13,090 --> 01:01:16,170
Speaker 1: of the resources on it, on each and every email.

1020
01:01:17,210 --> 01:01:20,970
Speaker 1: But please, please, please remember this. If you or someone

1021
01:01:21,050 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: you know is struggling with mental health and you believe

1022
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: that struggle may be life-threatening, call or text 988- The

1023
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,590
Speaker 1: 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is there to provide immediate

1024
01:01:36,660 --> 01:01:40,230
Speaker 1: crisis support. So please don't try to walk through a

1025
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:45,130
Speaker 1: life-threatening crisis alone. And I'd like to leave you with

1026
01:01:45,270 --> 01:01:49,660
Speaker 1: one of my favorite hope-filled passages of Scripture. These are

1027
01:01:49,700 --> 01:01:52,700
Speaker 1: some verses that God used to help bring me out

1028
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: of a 17-year battle with depression and anxiety. So they're

1029
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,690
Speaker 1: actually deeply personal to me. It comes out of Psalm

1030
01:02:01,770 --> 01:02:06,870
Speaker 1: chapter 40, which says, He inclined to me and heard

1031
01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:11,150
Speaker 1: my cry. He lifted me out of the pit of despair,

1032
01:02:11,570 --> 01:02:16,430
Speaker 1: out of the miry clay. He set my feet upon

1033
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:20,820
Speaker 1: a rock and he made my footsteps firm. He put

1034
01:02:20,860 --> 01:02:24,580
Speaker 1: a new song in my mouth, a hymn of praise

1035
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:30,790
Speaker 1: to our God. Many, will see and fear and put

1036
01:02:31,030 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: their trust in the Lord. That is my prayer today,

1037
01:02:37,220 --> 01:02:41,260
Speaker 1: not just for our children, but for every troubled soul

1038
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:46,780
Speaker 1: who is listening. And as always, remember, God gave you

1039
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:52,060
Speaker 1: your kids, your specific kids, for a reason. That's because

1040
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,500
Speaker 1: you hold the key to unlocking who God created them

1041
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:05,740
Speaker 1: to be. We'll see you next time.

1042
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,460
Speaker 4: Christian Parent Crazy World is a production of Life Audio

1043
01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 4: and Salem Media. If you liked what you heard today,

1044
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 4: please take a second to rate and review this podcast

1045
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,390
Speaker 4: in your favorite podcast app so that more listeners like

1046
01:03:18,450 --> 01:03:22,710
Speaker 4: you can find the show. For more faith-filled inspirational podcasts,

1047
01:03:23,050 --> 01:03:24,450
Speaker 4: visit us at lifeaudio.com.