1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: You are listening to The Beckett Cook Show with your 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry, 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Beckett Cook Show. 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: star rating. 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: Hey, guys, welcome to the show today. My guest is 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 3: Billy Hallowell and he has a new documentary out which 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 3: is fascinating. I just watched it and it's called Investigating 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: the Supernatural Angels and Demons. And Billy has been on 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: the show before. If you don't know, Billy Hollowell writes 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 3: for cbnsfaithwire dot com. Also been working in journalism and 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 3: media for more than a decade and he's written several books. 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 3: He also works for CBN News. So I'm excited to 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: get into this because there are some really fascinating parts 17 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: of this documentary. I mean, the whole documentary is fascinating, 18 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: but there we're going to talk about some fascinating moments 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 3: from the documentary and aspects of it. But first award 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: from our sponsor, Please welcome Billy Hallowell. 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. 22 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 3: Good to have you on. I just watched the documentary 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: yesterday or was it two days ago, and I was 24 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: riveted to it. I mean, it was so good. It's 25 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 3: investigating the supernatural angels and demons. Now, why this doc Now? 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: Why did you get interested in this? I know you've 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: been interested in supernatural stuff before, but talk about why 28 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: this now? 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we were kind of thinking a couple 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 4: of years back in twenty twenty three. We're like, we're 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 4: going to do a TV show. Let's do a TV show. 32 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 4: We'll do three episodes. We'll hit all the things that 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 4: really matter, miracles, heaven and hell, angels and demons. 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: And you know, we just. 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 4: Realized as we were doing the Miracles documentary, which you 36 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 4: have me on last year to talk about, that you 37 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 4: can't really do a thirty minute episode and justify and 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 4: really do justice too miracles or angels and demons, they're 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 4: just the stories are just too big, they're too crazy, 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 4: there's too much evidence, and so we decided to turn 41 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 4: that into a feature film series, which at the time 42 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: I was thinking, there's no way we're going to make 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 4: three films, like this is ridiculous, Like it's a miracle 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 4: to get one film done, but you know, we really 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 4: felt strongly that the second film should be Angels and Demons. 46 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: And it is interesting how God lines things up because 47 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 4: I think right now and I love I'd love to 48 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 4: get your opinion on this, but we're really living in 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 4: a world where Ephesian six, that battle between good and evil, 50 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 4: it feels more intense than it has in my lifetime ever. 51 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 4: There's nothing new under the sun, but there's an intensity 52 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 4: to it, like the good and the bad, the evil 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 4: the good that is just ramping up at the same 54 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 4: time with assassination attempts and assassinations and chaos and then 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 4: revival on the other side, you know, or at least 56 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 4: murmurings of revival. So we felt like it was a 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 4: good time for us to look at what is actually 58 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 4: going on beneath the surface, and so that sort of 59 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 4: drove our quest to dive into this particular topic. 60 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: And did you I mean, this is an off topic, 61 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 3: but well not really off topic, but Michael Heiser was 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: on the show and he wrote a book on called Angels, 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: and he wrote another book called Demons, and we taught 64 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 3: have you read those books. 65 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 4: I've read The Unseen Realm, which is another one of 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 4: his Yeah, yeah, he's fascinating. 67 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: He's fascinating. He didn't have it. 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: Now. 69 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: The people you interview on this in the stock are 70 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 3: really extraordinary. People talk about who you interview because like 71 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: it's Lee Strobel, Krai Kener, Sam, you know Sam Storms, 72 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: et cetera. Like, so give us kind of their backgrounds. 73 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so we wanted to have a cross 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 4: section of people, right, I think everbody knows, you know, 75 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 4: Lee's Strobel, They know him from the Case for Christ, right. 76 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 4: They A lot of people know John Burke. And what's 77 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 4: interesting about John Burke is that he actually has spent 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 4: probably more time than almost anyone looking at near death experiences, 79 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 4: which will be our next film, Heaven in Hell. And so, 80 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 4: you know, we really wanted a cross section of people 81 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 4: who would look at these issues in a creative way, 82 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 4: would help us sort of form narratives because one of 83 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 4: the biggest challenges with angels and demons is there are 84 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 4: a lot of questions that people have, Right, what are demons? 85 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: That's one big question. 86 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 4: I think all of us have been sort of conditioned 87 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 4: to believe that demons are And by the way, this 88 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 4: is I think the majority of you they're fallen angels. 89 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: Will others take a different view. 90 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 4: Michael Heiser, for instance, took the you know, disembodied spirits 91 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 4: of the nepheline theory, and so we address some of 92 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 4: that without going too crazy in the film. So that's 93 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 4: just one question. So we wanted people who could kind 94 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 4: of dig in on the angel front. You know Judith McNutt, 95 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 4: who is somebody I had heard of but didn't know 96 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 4: a lot about, and she's an expert on angels. She's 97 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 4: also a licensed psychotherapist, right, so you have the really 98 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 4: interesting cross sections of people. Doctor Richard Gallagher who has 99 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: probably looked at more possession cases than almost anyone else, 100 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 4: or more claims of possession, and he's a psychiatrist based 101 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 4: in New York, Ivy League educated, teaches at Columbia University. 102 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 4: But he believes that demons are real and he has 103 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 4: spent three decades investigating and looking at that and the 104 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 4: nature of them. So a lot of different people from 105 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 4: a lot of different walks of life, and then obviously 106 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: interview subjects people who have gone through through either dealing 107 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 4: with angels or demons. So that's sort of a thirty 108 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 4: thousand foot view. But yeah, we really wanted credible people 109 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: who could speak to these issues in a unique way. 110 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, I want to get into some of their 111 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: the stories of from their interviews. But Hugh Ross talks 112 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 3: about and he Ross has been on the show before. 113 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: He Ross is a Is he an astrophysicist. 114 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: Or what is the astrophysicist? Yeah, he's an astrophysicist. 115 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very smart, and he talks about you guys 116 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 3: talk about UFOs and maybe do you talk about aliens 117 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: as well or just UFOs? 118 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 4: So yeah, we talk a little bit about aliens and UFOs. 119 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 4: And it's funny because when we were making this film 120 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 4: over a year ago, when we were starting to talk 121 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 4: about it, we were not thinking, Okay, we knew that 122 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: disclosure was a thing that people were starting to talk 123 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 4: about it, but we didn't realize that we would be 124 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 4: releasing it. Literally as jd Vance, the Vice President of 125 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 4: the United States, is out there saying, I don't believe 126 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 4: they're aliens. 127 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: I think they're demons. Right. 128 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 4: So we wanted to bring in Hugh Ross because he 129 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 4: is an astrophysicist. He's very smart, and his perspective on this, 130 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 4: which he unpacks in the film, is that aliens and UFOs. Now, 131 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 4: he first will say, the vast majority of these things 132 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 4: can be explained naturally, right, all these claims, the vast majority, 133 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 4: But there is a residual proportion. It's small that can't 134 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 4: be And that proportion, he would say, is demonic. That 135 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 4: you're not actually dealing with real, real aliens, with real UFOs. 136 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 4: You're dealing with a spiritual manifestation that is interdimensional and 137 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 4: that is demonic and is sort of deceiving people to 138 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 4: believe that they are aliens, either intentionally or inadvertently, probably intentionally. 139 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 4: And that is a really interesting theory. So to have 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 4: the Vice President of the United States say that in 141 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 4: an interview is actually pretty remarkable and pretty well. We 142 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 4: could not I could not have guessed that it would 143 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 4: not have been on my BINGO card even two months ago. 144 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: Well, I've I mean i've for the longest time. I've 145 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 3: I've believed at least for the last I don't know, 146 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: five years, or since I've been a Christian, Like uh, 147 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: I've been a Christian for seventeen years, but like the 148 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: last five years, I've believed. I've come to believe that 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: it's demonic like aliens or you know, sightings of UFOs. 150 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,119 Speaker 3: Those kinds of things are all demonic, and they're all 151 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: they're all meant to lead us astray and deceive us. 152 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: And but what's interesting is Hugh Ross talked this was 153 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: like fascinating to me. He talked about that people who 154 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: report seeing UFOs never hear a sonic boom, even though 155 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 3: these UFOs travel at like seventeen thousand miles per hour 156 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: or whatever it is. 157 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, okay, never hear a sonic boom. And that's 158 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 4: just one part of this, because there's some other elements 159 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: here that are really really interesting. You would hear a 160 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 4: sonic boom if it's a physical object going through the skies. 161 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: And by the way, I agree with you. I tend 162 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: to in this series we don't really tell people what 163 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 4: to think. What we do is we present evidence and 164 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: let them make a decision. But I think on this front, personally, 165 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 4: I agree because it's not just that, it's also this 166 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 4: issue of people who claim to have had alien encounters 167 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 4: of the of the first kind, right where they've been 168 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 4: abducted or they've had this experience. 169 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: I mean, ten years ago, this would have been wackuld do. 170 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 4: It would have sounded so crazy and only very few 171 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 4: people would have believed it, and now the majority of 172 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 4: the country believes that there are aliens and that something 173 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 4: is going on here. So I love that we're talking 174 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 4: about it because it's important. 175 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: But those people. 176 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 4: Who have those interactions with what they believe to be aliens, 177 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 4: those interactions are remarkably negative. They are never positive, and 178 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 4: they mirror exactly what happens when a person is possessed 179 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 4: or dealing with a demon, and so you have to 180 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: start asking questions about that, Well, why is that? Why 181 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 4: is that the case? There's mind reading going on and 182 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: weird communication going on. It mirrors exactly what we would 183 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 4: see in the demonic realm. And so one other thing 184 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 4: is that there are some claims of studies that show 185 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: that after you go through an experience like that, you 186 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 4: have a higher chance of being suicidal, like suicidal ideation 187 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 4: goes up. So something disturbing is happening to these people 188 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 4: who are claiming to have this interaction as well. So 189 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 4: there are a lot of other pieces, but that's another 190 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 4: one that was pretty compelling. 191 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this short break, And yeah, 192 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: because he mentions that people who have these close see 193 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 3: he says close encounters with a third kind, which are 194 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 3: encounters with a third kind. I don't even know what 195 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: does that mean? Third kind? 196 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: I mean, I've I heard it worded so many different, 197 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: so many different ways. I think it's like it's sort 198 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 4: of another encounter you wouldn't typically have, you know, I've 199 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 4: heard of the of the close kind, the third kind. 200 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 4: The reality is these people think that they're having some 201 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 4: kind of interaction with another species. I don't even know 202 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 4: if that's the right word, right, that God created. Now 203 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 4: there are some Christians who believe this too. And this 204 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 4: is where this gets really interesting, and this is where 205 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 4: we're going to have to have answers. Because it used 206 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 4: to be that we could sit back and we could 207 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 4: kind of laugh some of this stuff off, right, We 208 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 4: could be like, oh, that's ridiculous, Right, there's no such 209 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 4: thing as aliens. 210 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: We don't need to talk about it. 211 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 4: But the Church Christians are going to have to have 212 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: a position on this because you have numerous you have 213 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 4: a president and a former president who are talking about this, 214 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 4: you have culture talking about it, people believing it, and unfortunately, 215 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: on the demonic realm, when we could talk about this, 216 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: the church has sort of stepped back and allowed culture 217 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: to speak into that so much that they're owning that topic. 218 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 4: I'm afraid we're going to do the same thing with aliens. 219 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: We really can't do that. We have to be prepared 220 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 4: with a response. And again there may be debate. There 221 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 4: are some there are some Christians who host popular podcasts 222 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 4: who actually believe that aliens exist, and there are many 223 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 4: who don't. I in the category of I think they're 224 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 4: I think this is demonic. 225 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: I agree with Jade Vance. 226 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I and I think the purpose behind it 227 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: is and I mentioned deception, but I think the deception 228 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: is that humans are not exceptional and that they're, you know, 229 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: God like, we're not special in in God's creation, and 230 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: that's I think that's the real deception. But yeah, you 231 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: mentioned you kind of sort of mentioned this. But Hugh 232 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 3: Ross mentions that most of these people who've had these 233 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 3: encounters with the third kind have dabbled in the occult, 234 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: which is very interesting because I that's that is very telling. 235 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 4: Or somebody around them has. Yeah, so the the idea 236 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: rare than is that the right the door has been open. 237 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 4: But the other thing about this his claim also and 238 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 4: I've seen, I mean numerous people claim this, and I 239 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 4: would love. We need more research actually on some of this, 240 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 4: because not just those individuals, but the geographic locations where 241 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 4: a cult activity is higher. In those locations, more people 242 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: are reporting alien you know, interactions in UFOs. So that 243 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 4: would also make more sense. Right, if you're opening a 244 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 4: doorway to the occult in some ways, and you're doing 245 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 4: some of this, you're actually creating a situation where suddenly 246 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 4: more people in your area believe. 247 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: They're seeing UFOs. 248 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 4: The deception becomes even greater for those people and in 249 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 4: those locations. And I think for anybody who's struggling with 250 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 4: this too, like what does the Bible tell us? The 251 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 4: Bible tells us Satan comes to kill, steel, destroy, and confuse, 252 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 4: And so that is exactly what this is. It is 253 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 4: a confusing deception. And what you said is so important too, like, oh, well, 254 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 4: we're not special. There's something else that's more special than 255 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 4: we are, right, or more unique than we are. And 256 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 4: so I think we have to take all that into 257 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 4: account and understand that if aliens do exist, you're really 258 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 4: left with one of two options. They're robots with no 259 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 4: free will, right, because they couldn't have free will, and 260 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 4: they would just have to be like animals essentially, or 261 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: if they have free will, Jesus would have had to 262 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 4: have died for them too, And I don't know where 263 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 4: that fits in with the framework here at all. 264 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean, so those are really your only options. 265 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of like the belief in the aliens, 266 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: Like it's sort of Buttress's Darwinism in a way and materialism. 267 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like, if there's aliens, then 268 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 3: there probably isn't a god because there's two. It's too confusing. 269 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 3: You're right, It's like Satan confuses us with us. Tell 270 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 3: us a story about this was fascinating to me. I 271 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 3: was when Hugh Ross went to speak in the former 272 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: Soviet Union. What happened? Who did he speak to? In? 273 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: What happened during that talk? 274 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: It is? It is wild. 275 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 4: And by the way, what I love about investigating supernatural 276 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 4: is that we get to do reenactment, so we're kind 277 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 4: of showing you what it might have looked like. So 278 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 4: you're referring to a scene that is actually pretty wild. 279 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 4: And I wasn't there when they filmed it. I wish 280 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 4: I was, because it looked really interesting to film. But 281 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 4: you know, he was invited to the USSR and at 282 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 4: that time, they were engaged in occult science. They were 283 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 4: trying to use the occult to gain an advantage as 284 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 4: a country, which is incredibly wild and I can't even 285 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 4: imagine what people were being opened up to with the 286 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 4: government actually relying on the occult to try to accomplish things. 287 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: We see this happen, by the way. 288 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 4: I mean there are times that police departments will bring 289 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 4: in psychics to try to solve cases. I mean, this 290 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 4: is not this is something that does happen, and it's 291 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 4: very dangerous and it's wild to me that this is 292 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: something that credible people are doing. But they will do it, 293 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 4: and they'll do it because they'll see something happen. 294 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: As a result of it. And we can kind of 295 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: talk about some of that. 296 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: But he ends up going to deliver this speech and 297 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 4: he's sharing the Gospel essentially as he's talking about science 298 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 4: with these government officials and these people there in the USSR, 299 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 4: and they start manifesting and freaking out while he's giving 300 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 4: this speech, and I mean like one third of the room, 301 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 4: a substantial chunk of the room. And he said they 302 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: were saying the most hideous things about Jesus. It wasn't 303 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 4: just like they were yelling at him, they were saying 304 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 4: demonically inspired things, and so he couldn't even finish the 305 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: talk what he had to do and this is so 306 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 4: it's so interesting. He leaves the room and he finds this. 307 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 4: He has this other Christian who's on the trip with him, 308 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 4: and he goes back the next day to try again. 309 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: And what the guy, the guy. 310 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 4: Who goes with him does is he sits in the 311 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 4: back of the room and starts praying against these demonic forces. 312 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 4: And Hugh is able to get through his speech that day. 313 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 4: And you know, he talked about going back to the 314 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 4: USSR years later after that occult science activity was done 315 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 4: and he didn't have that same experience. But as you're 316 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 4: watching this unfold, you're thinking, my goodness, what in the 317 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 4: world is happening. 318 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: But look that mirrors again. 319 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 4: And for those who struggle on this demonic issue, for 320 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 4: those who struggle to think, okay, is this really still happening, 321 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 4: read the Bible. All of the accounts of you know, 322 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 4: the demonic in possession are way more terrifying than what's 323 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 4: even seen in that scene. 324 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: I mean, they're very, very scary. 325 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 4: You've got a story about a little boy being round 326 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 4: in the water and being thrown into fire by the 327 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 4: demons You've got, you know, the men coming out of 328 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: the caves, you know, absolutely out of control with supernatural strength. 329 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: So anyway, it's a wild, wild story and it was 330 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: pretty incredible to hear directly from him on it. 331 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, and who is talk about Doctor Richard Gallagher? 332 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 3: Who is he and what does he do? Okay? 333 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 4: So doctor Gallagher is somebody I encountered years ago for 334 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 4: the first time. So it was really interesting to kind 335 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 4: of circle back with him because he is a psychiatrist 336 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 4: in New York. I'm in New York here, he's right 337 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 4: outside of New York City and he teaches at Columbia. 338 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 4: He is somebody who was a skeptic. He grew up 339 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: Catholic and was pretty much nominal but pretty skeptical. Once 340 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 4: he reached his adult years and was practicing as a psychiatrist, 341 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 4: he was approached by the Catholic Church and this is 342 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 4: about thirty years ago, and they said to him, look, 343 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 4: we want you to come in and be the person 344 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 4: who looks at different cases and says, Okay, that person's 345 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 4: either possessed or they're crazy. Right, they're dealing with a 346 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 4: mental health issue or there. And so he was like, look, 347 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 4: I don't want to do that because I'm a skeptic 348 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 4: and I'm not the right person for it. And they 349 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 4: were like, no, no, no, you are absolutely the right 350 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 4: person because you are skeptical. So he agrees to do it, 351 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 4: and he ends up on an incredible journey because very 352 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 4: quickly he goes from a skeptic to a believer once 353 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 4: he starts seeing some of these patients and individuals and 354 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 4: starts interacting with them. 355 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: And I mean, let's I. 356 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 4: Guess we could talk about do you want to talk 357 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 4: about Julia? Because I know you saw the film, so you. 358 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: Want to talk a little bit about you talk about Julia? Okay. 359 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 4: So one of the cases that convinced him. There were 360 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,719 Speaker 4: a number of cases leading up that convinced him that 361 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 4: the demonic was real, but this woman, Julia. He called 362 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 4: her case a once in a century case. And when 363 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 4: he said that, of course, I'm like my eyebrows go up. 364 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, I want to hear this right, because 365 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 4: I go into this skeptical every time. To a degree, 366 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, is this really true? 367 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: Now? 368 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 4: Julia was a satan worshiper. She was in a cult, 369 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 4: and so a lot of people, and I think it's 370 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 4: important to differentiate these things. There are people who face 371 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 4: oppression which is not possession, and that any of us 372 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 4: could face that it's evil sort of pushing in on us, 373 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 4: trying to get at us. 374 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: It's spiritual warfare. 375 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 4: She was dealing with full on possession she had because 376 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 4: she was worshiping Satan. She had allowed the devil in. Essentially, 377 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 4: she had demons in her and she was blacking out 378 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: and essentially not in control of her body. And so 379 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 4: the night the morning that she comes to him for 380 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: the first time, to doctor Gallagher, the night before, he 381 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 4: and his wife were in bed sleeping and they wake 382 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 4: up and their cats are going crazy. Their cats are fighting, 383 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 4: and his wife is like, this is so weird. Our 384 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 4: cats never do this. This is strange. So they separate 385 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 4: the cats out. He has no idea that this woman's 386 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 4: coming to his house. The next morning, the doorbell rings. 387 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 4: You've got the priest there with Julia, and he's like, hi, 388 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 4: you know, doctor Gallagher, here's Julia. 389 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: He introduces them. 390 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 4: One of the first things that she says to doctor 391 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 4: Gallagher is, how did you like what I did with 392 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 4: the cats last night, and so you can imagine Gallagher, 393 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 4: You're like, I don't know this woman, what in the 394 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 4: world is going on? And that was just the start 395 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 4: of it. I mean, there were a number of things 396 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 4: that happened, and some of them we didn't include in 397 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 4: the film. One of them, she had the ability and 398 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 4: by the way, you might be wondering, why is she 399 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 4: going to this doctor into a priest to get help. 400 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 4: Even though she enjoyed the abilities she had from the possession, 401 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 4: and there were some abilities I'm about to talk about, 402 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 4: she also wanted freedom. She recognized that she was losing 403 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: control to these entities that she had allowed into her body. 404 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: Now she liked the power, right, she liked the power. 405 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 4: She liked the power, but also wanted freedom. And it's 406 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 4: actually a really sad story for so many reasons because 407 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 4: and people can watch the film to see the rest 408 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 4: of it. 409 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: But she doesn't really have the ending we would hope for. 410 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 4: But she's, you know, before that, trying to sort of 411 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 4: deal with these things with doctor Gallagher. One of the 412 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 4: things we didn't include in the film that was very 413 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 4: interesting is she could astro project and that may be 414 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: something unfamiliar to people. So just to explain it, she 415 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 4: could be in a room talking to you and she 416 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 4: could tell you what the priest was doing one thousand 417 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 4: miles away or two hundred miles away. She could describe 418 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 4: what he was wearing. And this sounds like sci fi, 419 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 4: like is this really real? But I've interviewed numerous people 420 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 4: who have had this ability. We'll call it it's demonically inspired. 421 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 4: So she's telling doctor Gallagher one day, I know where 422 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 4: the priest is. He's walking near the river, he's wearing 423 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 4: a blue windbreaker, and she's describing all these things, and 424 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: doctor Gallagher's thinking, okay, Julia whatever. He calls the priest 425 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 4: and he says to the priest, hey, where are you 426 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 4: right now? 427 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: What are you doing? 428 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 4: And every single thing that she described was accurate to 429 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 4: what was happening, including what he was wearing in that moment. 430 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 4: When you're dealing with a possession to that degree, it's 431 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,479 Speaker 4: very severe. And so doctor Gallagher came to start seeing 432 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 4: the evidence and realizing that. And I could go on 433 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 4: and on about Julia, but her story is heartbreaking again 434 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 4: because she did not get the healing that part of 435 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 4: her really had initially sought. 436 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 3: Yeah. Ye, So well, let's go to a happier note. 437 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 3: Let's turn to angels. Now. Talk about Judith McNutt. She's 438 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: a psychotherapist and her was Judith the one who went 439 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: was in Israel and her life was saved and is okay? 440 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 3: Talk about her and who she is. Yeah. 441 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 4: So Judith McNutt is very interesting. She was married to 442 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 4: Francis McNutt, who was a Catholic priest. This is very 443 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: interesting during the charismatic Catholic movement and I don't know 444 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 4: the timeline, and probably. 445 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: In the seventies he left the Catholic priestsa because. 446 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 4: He met Judith and they fell in love, and I 447 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 4: don't know the whole timeline, but they fell in love 448 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 4: and he left the Catholic church, was no longer a priest, 449 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 4: and they got married. But they founded this Christian healing 450 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 4: ministry together. And so some of what he had been 451 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 4: doing as a Catholic priest in that charismatic movement they 452 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 4: sort of carried that on in the Protestant realm. Yeah, 453 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 4: and so he's no longer with us, but she is fascinating. 454 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 4: She is a registered board certified psychotherapist, so her career 455 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 4: started in mental health health, and she what I love 456 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 4: about her story is that she was very frustrated seeing patients. 457 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 4: She had one patient who committed suicide, and it really 458 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 4: bothered her because she's like, I'm doing all this work, 459 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 4: I'm trying to help these patients and nothing is working. 460 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 4: They're not getting better. And so she started to pray 461 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 4: for her patients. She started integrating her faith in and 462 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 4: immediately saw wild shifts and changes in them. And so 463 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 4: that was before she met her husband and then they 464 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 4: founded this ministry. And she shared so many incredible stories 465 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 4: in the film, but one of them was, as you 466 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 4: were mentioning, she was in Israel, living in Israel, and 467 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 4: she was going to meet a friend at a flower 468 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 4: shop and she was on her way to this flower 469 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 4: shop and she could very strongly hear this voice saying 470 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 4: to her, stop, don't go there. And she ignored it first. 471 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: She's like, what is that? 472 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 4: You know, which I think a lot of us if 473 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 4: we heard an audible voice, we might ignore it. 474 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: We might be like, okay, you know. She heard it 475 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: again and again. 476 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 4: It was I think three times she heard it, and 477 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 4: she said to her friend who was walking and again 478 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 4: they were going to meet another friend she was like, 479 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 4: I keep hearing this voice. And they stopped and they prayed, 480 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 4: and the friend said, you know what, I think we 481 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 4: shouldn't go. I think we should turn back. And just 482 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 4: as they were they had stopped to pray, and explosion 483 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 4: went off right outside that flower shop where they would 484 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 4: have been standing had she not listened to the voice 485 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 4: and continued. So she believes that she was saved in 486 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 4: that moment by an angel. But here's the crazy thing. 487 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 4: The friend they were supposed to meet. Her immediate thought 488 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 4: is that friend is dead. That friend was going to 489 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 4: be there. 490 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: She goes to. 491 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 4: Another location where where they were going to meet later on, 492 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 4: and the friend was there and they give each other 493 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 4: a hug and they're elated to see each other. And 494 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 4: the friend heard the same voice that told her not 495 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 4: to go to that location. And so that was one 496 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 4: of the stories that led her onto the path of 497 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 4: becoming an expert on angels. 498 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: And I know when people. 499 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 4: Hear that, by the way, when we talk about being 500 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: an expert on angels, we're not talking New Age. We're 501 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 4: talking a biblical understanding of angels, what they are, what 502 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 4: they do do, what their purpose is. And so Judith 503 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 4: has had an incredible ministry really helping people understand that. 504 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 505 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've. 506 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 3: Ever heard of JP Morland's angel stories his story, but 507 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 3: he talks about when I was in his class as 508 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 3: apologetics class. He told us the story of one day 509 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 3: he was lecturing and during the lecture, one of his 510 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 3: students his face just went white. He was like his 511 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 3: like his eyes got really wide and he just his 512 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: face just went white. And JP Morland didn't know what 513 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: was going on. A little while later, I don't know, 514 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 3: maybe a month or I can't remember, but that student 515 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 3: email JP Moreland and said, Hey, I just want you 516 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: to know that that day in class, I saw two 517 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 3: angels standing behind you. And he described them in detail, 518 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: like one was taller than the other and blah blah blah, 519 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 3: and he described it and JP was like, Wow, that's 520 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 3: that's fascinating. And then JP was speaking at a conference 521 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: later sometime later, I don't know how long later, but 522 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: and the same thing, the same thing happened someone. I 523 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: can't remember the exact details, but after the conference, someone 524 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 3: came up to him and said, I saw these there's 525 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: two angels behind you, and describe the exact same thing. 526 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 3: The guy in the class did, so that is wild. 527 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 3: And the thing is is, like, I find such great 528 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 3: comfort in that because you know, God, God's angels minister 529 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 3: to us, and and I mean I always pray that 530 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 3: I always pray for you know, especially like before bed, 531 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: I'm like, God, will you just send your angels to 532 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: like protect me while I'm asleep and minister to me? 533 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 3: And so I find that very comforting that we I mean, 534 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: I think I believe that we all have you know, 535 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's guardian angels or whatever, but 536 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 3: I believe that there are angels that God sends to 537 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: minister to us, to protect us, et cetera. 538 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely. You know, I got to be honest with you. 539 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 4: I love that you just said that because I and 540 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 4: I'm ashamed to admit this. Until this documentary, you know, 541 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 4: I had not ever prayed. And it was Judith McNutt 542 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 4: in her office after we filmed, talking to me about this. 543 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 4: I had not ever not I shouldn't stop there. 544 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: I had prayed. 545 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 4: I had never prayed that an angel would come and 546 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 4: protect my family or me, that God would send one. 547 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 4: Not we don't pray to angels. We asked God to 548 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 4: do it. Right, God, send your angels to protect us. 549 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 4: I had never done that. And we sat down and 550 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 4: we talked it through, and I thought, well, why why 551 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 4: would I not do that? Like, what is how silly 552 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 4: of me? But I had never really been taught anything 553 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 4: more about angels than what we see in scripture, right, 554 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 4: And this is the problem with the angels and demon's topic. 555 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 4: A lot of churches are not equipping people by talking 556 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 4: about how does this apply to today? We're not just 557 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 4: reading this book like when we read the Bible, we 558 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 4: read it like it's a book that already ended, like 559 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 4: it's a book, U, it's this ancient history book. We're 560 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 4: in it still, like Ephesian six says, we are in 561 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 4: a battle between good and evil, Like we are literally 562 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 4: in the middle of that right now. And you can't 563 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 4: win a battle you don't know you're in the middle of. 564 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 4: And I feel like a lot of us are not 565 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 4: equipping other believers to understand that. 566 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: So anyway, I just wanted to comment on that. 567 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 4: I love that you said that because Judith actually got 568 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 4: me thinking a lot differently about that. And by the way, 569 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: there's a story about her praying for a pastor to 570 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 4: see angels because he was skeptical, oh right, that they 571 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 4: were still around. And it's a pretty cool story about 572 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 4: how he wakes up in the middle of the night 573 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: there's an angel like standing at the foot of his 574 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 4: bed and it freaks him out. 575 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: And then he becomes a huge believer in angels. 576 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 3: So yeah, and by the way, I mean in the Gospel, 577 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: like I think it's Matthew after Jesus is tempted in 578 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: the wilderness for forty days an he wins, basically, angels 579 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 3: come and minister to him, and I thought, you know 580 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 3: it's there in scripture and you I'm not. We won't 581 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: get into this story, but I'll just tease it. I mean, 582 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 3: you could just tease the story about Bruce Vanetta. Just 583 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: give us just a glimpse of it, and then people 584 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 3: can watch the documentary just see the whole story. 585 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, this is one of my favorite stories, long 586 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 4: story short. This is a man who had a near 587 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 4: death experience. He saw angels minister to him as he 588 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 4: was dead under a truck, a semi truck that collapsed 589 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 4: on him, and he had a miracle healing after. I mean, 590 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: it is it's the trifecta of things. You don't typically 591 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 4: get in his story and he is alive and well 592 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 4: to tell the story and it's just pretty incredible. And 593 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 4: that's sort of where we finish the film, and that 594 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 4: will lead us off into our next film again, which 595 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 4: is Heaven and Hell and New Death Experiences. 596 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: Wow. Okay, so where can people now this this doc 597 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 3: is out investigating the supernatural Angels and demons is out 598 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 3: now right. 599 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 4: Yes, and they can go to CBM forward slash Supernatural 600 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 4: and you can stream it there. And what's really great 601 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 4: is donation of any amounts, So we're not asking you 602 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 4: for twenty dollars or thirty dollars. You donate whatever you 603 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 4: want and you can stream the film. 604 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 3: So yeah, we'll link, we'll link to that blow and uh, 605 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 3: I'm excited. When is the next When do you think 606 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: the next uh the Heaven, the uh the other the 607 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: next doc in Hell? Heaven in Hell? When do you 608 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 3: think that will be released? Like? 609 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it will be probably about March. 610 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 4: You know, these typically come out in March, so we're 611 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 4: looking at a March of twenty tentatively March or April 612 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 4: of twenty twenty seven release on that film. And there's 613 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: some crazy stories in that when we're we're working at 614 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 4: it right now, and it is. It's been amazing being 615 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 4: able to tell these stories and work on these projects. 616 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 4: It has brought me so much closer to God. And 617 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 4: it's interesting that the supernatural would do that. And I 618 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 4: don't know why that's surprising to me, but I actually 619 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 4: think it's an apologetics tool that we're not using enough. 620 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 4: When we have evidence to back it up, right, that's 621 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 4: when it becomes a solid apologetics tool. 622 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's watching it is. This documentary is very 623 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 3: encouraging because you do you see you you believe that 624 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: the supernatural realm is there, and so it's not just 625 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 3: I mean, because you know, we worship in an invisible God. 626 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 3: So sometimes you're just kind of like, it's hard to 627 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 3: you know, grasp this, but but it's it's it's very 628 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: encouraging to your faith to see that these are realities. 629 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 3: The supernatural realm is reality, the unseen realm is Michael 630 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 3: Heiser would call it, but Billy Hollowell, thank you for 631 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 3: coming on. Everyone, Please go to what's the website again. 632 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 4: CBN dot com, forward slash Supernatural. 633 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 3: And stream this documentary. You're gonna love it, so thank 634 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: you Billy for coming on. I appreciate it. 635 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett 636 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes 637 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube. 638 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his 639 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com. 640 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 3: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their 641 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 3: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, 642 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting, 643 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 3: and more.