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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your

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Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

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Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support

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Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Becket Cook Show.

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Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five

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Speaker 2: star rating.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 4: I had a conversation with my guest Jess Starnell, and

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Speaker 4: his story is amazing. He was a prodigal for fifteen

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Speaker 4: years as a gay man. He is American, but he

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Speaker 4: was living in London and anyway, it's such an amazing

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Speaker 4: story of God's grace. I just want to warn you

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Speaker 4: though it. There are moments where it's pretty graphic and

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Speaker 4: he does get a little spicy, so just be warned

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Speaker 4: of that. But you won't regret watching this because it's

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Speaker 4: just a testament to the power of God's grace.

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Speaker 1: But first award from our sponsor. Okay, so welcome Jess Darnell.

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Speaker 3: That get Cook. Hello, I'm so thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 3: I actually a few months ago, when the internet thing

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Speaker 3: was kicking off, I tried to send you an email

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Speaker 3: and for whatever reason the submit button didn't It didn't work,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, well, maybe I'll try it tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: I like whatever, And then you've found me and you

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Speaker 3: reached out to me, So I think it's a really

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Speaker 3: it's a cool kind of God thing, god timing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, I, as I mentioned to you, I people kept

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Speaker 4: sending me videos of you on Instagram because you would

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Speaker 4: do these kind of like ten minute like videos and

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Speaker 4: on TikTok and Instagram.

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Speaker 1: But I don't have TikTok.

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Speaker 3: It's a longer. Why.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't need it. I don't need any more.

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Speaker 1: I don't need any more social media.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, so people kept sending me these videos of you,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, who is this guy?

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Speaker 3: And what?

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Speaker 1: So I finally watched and I was like, wait a minute.

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Speaker 4: This guy, this guy is amazing and hilarious, Like he's

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Speaker 4: got to come on the show. So I reached out

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Speaker 4: to you, and now you're here, So here we are.

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Speaker 1: So tell us.

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Speaker 4: You were Let's go. Let's start from the beginning. You

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Speaker 4: were raised in a Christian home.

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Speaker 1: Did you were your parents married throughout the whole?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Mary raised in a Christian household. Both of

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Speaker 3: my parents professed Jesus. We did the we I like

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Speaker 3: to say we grew up in church in the sense

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Speaker 3: that we were at church on Sundays and on Easter.

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Speaker 3: We had little we did little passion cycle crafts and

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Speaker 3: it was very much you know, Christmas was this is

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Speaker 3: about the birth of Jesus. But I don't think I

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Speaker 3: really I don't think I really got it. We did

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Speaker 3: the Christian elementary school thing in second grade. I came

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Speaker 3: home and said, Jesus come into my heart. And then

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Speaker 3: it was like, well past the potatoes. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was kind of it, wasn't it. The Christianity I thought

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Speaker 3: was whatever I thought it was is not what I'm

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Speaker 3: in now, which is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: And how old were you when and where were you were?

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Speaker 1: You were raised in Nashville?

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Speaker 5: Is that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Born in Nashville and I was there. We were

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Speaker 3: there for I think Mom and dad moved down there

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Speaker 3: in the mid eighties. Dad wanted to be a songwriter,

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Speaker 3: and Mom delivered babies for about thirty years. She helped

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Speaker 3: deliver Miley Cyrus. Fun fact, we're still waiting on that

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Speaker 3: thank you card.

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Speaker 1: She a doula.

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Speaker 3: She was she was in obgy and labor and delivering nurse,

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Speaker 3: working in women's health. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: but she loved that, and then I wanted to be

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Speaker 3: an actor for pretty from pretty young as soon as

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Speaker 3: I kind of realized. We would sit around and watch

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Speaker 3: movies and mom and dad would go, oh, I love them,

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Speaker 3: They're so great, that's so cool. There was sort of

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Speaker 3: this understanding that it was a career option, and so

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Speaker 3: I was like, well, I want to do that because like, wow,

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Speaker 3: theatrics and drama and special effects, and I was kind

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Speaker 3: of enamored with how the movies were made and yeah,

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Speaker 3: so that kind of kicked me off on a trajectory

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Speaker 3: pursuing that as a career.

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Speaker 1: And did you have siblings?

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Speaker 3: I did? Do you have? I'm textbook middle child, textbook

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Speaker 3: middle child, but I had two sisters. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And at what age did you start to sense that

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Speaker 4: you were different?

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Speaker 3: Mm? Meaning you were attracted to the same sex, right,

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Speaker 3: because I was already a weirdo anyway, But then it

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Speaker 3: kind of then just to get a bit spicier. I

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Speaker 3: think it. I think it probably. I mean when people

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Speaker 3: were calling me gay on the playground, I didn't know

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Speaker 3: what that meant. I had no idea what that meant,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I just knew that it was kind

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Speaker 3: of embarrassing and I was being singled out and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to do sports, and I just feel a

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Speaker 3: bit gross. But I think maybe around the time that

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Speaker 3: all the boys were getting the sex talk, the birds

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Speaker 3: and the bees talk, which I had to kind of

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Speaker 3: I sort of had to pull out of my dad.

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Speaker 3: I really had to really to work hard to get

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Speaker 3: that conversation going. But then I still had questions that

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Speaker 3: were left unanswered, and I didn't really feel like, I

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Speaker 3: it's it's one, it's just embarrassing. It can be kind

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Speaker 3: of gross when you're a kid and you don't want

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Speaker 3: to talk about that thing. And so, like any self

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Speaker 3: respecting millennial, I turned to the internet instead of the

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Speaker 3: people that could have offered me some actual advice and

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Speaker 3: some actual guidance. So I think once I kind of

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Speaker 3: I was finding I was I eventually that sort of

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Speaker 3: leads into some poor an exposure, and I think when

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Speaker 3: that happened and I went, oh, I'm feeling really viscerally

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Speaker 3: and really I'm very very it's so intense what I'm watching,

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Speaker 3: and it's validating what I've been told I am by

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Speaker 3: people that are being mean, So I kind of I

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Speaker 3: think it was. I think it kind of merged the

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Speaker 3: language there sort of it it justified the experiences a

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Speaker 3: little bit, and I went, oh, okay, so maybe this

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Speaker 3: is like this is what I am. I guess, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't really. I don't know. I guess being like

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Speaker 3: all the stories we're watching at home tend to be

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Speaker 3: a lot of princess storylines, but like we're playing, we're

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Speaker 3: playing barbies and dress up and it's not it's so

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Speaker 3: innocuous and innocent and fun. But I think the oh,

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Speaker 3: this is what I am, coupled with the like, oh

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Speaker 3: the porn exposure seems to be confirming that. Plus every

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Speaker 3: movie in TV is about being different and you don't

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Speaker 3: need to conform and you need to find someone who's

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Speaker 3: different like you to find your people. Like it was

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Speaker 3: just I think it was a big perfect storm of

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Speaker 3: all of that. But I think it was about ten

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Speaker 3: eleven when I was kind of like, I'm not really

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Speaker 3: looking at girls because girls are my sisters. That's like

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Speaker 3: we play around in like I don't know were it's there.

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Speaker 3: It's sisters. I didn't I didn't have brothers, so I

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Speaker 3: guess there was there might have been a thing happening there.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And were your parents at all aware that you

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Speaker 4: were different as a kid? Like were did they suspect this?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I on paper as a gay man, I

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Speaker 3: was about as cliche as they come. I think the

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Speaker 3: wisdom of Oz was those film I watched more than

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Speaker 3: any other film. And I had a little easter basket

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Speaker 3: that looked a bit like Dorothy's basket, and I would

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Speaker 3: spin around in a circle until my vision started to

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Speaker 3: like spin and tilt because it reminded me of when

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Speaker 3: she gets hit in the back of the head by

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Speaker 3: the window during the cyclone and it kind of cross

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Speaker 3: fades while she's going into dreamland like I was. I

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Speaker 3: loved I dream of Genie I was. I absolutely flipped

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Speaker 3: over Barbara Eden. I mean it was just like I

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Speaker 3: Show Busy Musical Theater when I tried to come out

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Speaker 3: twice as bisexual, ha. When I tried to do that,

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Speaker 3: it was kind of like I found myself as a

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Speaker 3: teenager being like, are y'all not? Why are y' all absurd?

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Speaker 3: Surely this is not a surprise, Like I don't But

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Speaker 3: they didn't ever, that was never the response that that's

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Speaker 3: not the response I remember anyway. I don't they were

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Speaker 3: very It was much more met with concern and trying

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Speaker 3: to trying to handle it, rather than like a what.

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Speaker 3: I don't think anyone was really blindsided because I was

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Speaker 3: always a daffy, theatrical, goofy kid, doing voices and imitating

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Speaker 3: people like Jim Carrey and Robin Williams. I was super

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Speaker 3: out there anyway, So I think it was just a

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Speaker 3: I don't think it really was a surprise in that sense,

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Speaker 3: because I was already a bit of a funny kid

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Speaker 3: to begin with, I guess.

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Speaker 4: And so, how as a kid when you were dealing

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Speaker 4: with that and understanding that you were attracted to the

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Speaker 4: same sex, like, how did that impact your Christianity or whatever?

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Speaker 1: You know, what you're upbringing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it. I don't think it started

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Speaker 3: to become an issue really until I tried to come out.

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Speaker 3: I think there was a around like sixteen seventeen eighteen.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of the window where I tried this sort

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Speaker 3: of double attempts to come out. I think I was

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Speaker 3: leading up to that, I was feeling conflicted, and I

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Speaker 3: had heard in a wider sense that being gay is

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Speaker 3: a sin. But then you feel these things and they

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Speaker 3: seem to arise naturally and you don't really know if

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Speaker 3: they You're not thinking when you're a child, is it

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Speaker 3: because I've seen some unspeakable things on the internet watching

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Speaker 3: men do something like you don't you don't take that

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Speaker 3: into account that you might be thinking that way. So

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Speaker 3: I was like, this just is like what I'm I

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Speaker 3: wanted something very traditional. I wanted to be just like

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Speaker 3: everybody else, but the only difference was that it was

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Speaker 3: a man, and I didn't really see anything wrong with that,

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Speaker 3: and so I had a lot of you know, you

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Speaker 3: don't turn to church. Wasn't a place where you could

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Speaker 3: lay all your burdens down and try and push into Jesus.

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Speaker 3: It was people are going to be mad at me.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be in trouble. So it's it's so

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Speaker 3: it's so funny to think back on how childlike the

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Speaker 3: conflict is, because it's I wasn't really going like God's

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Speaker 3: gonna hate me. In fact, I had a moment that

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Speaker 3: felt like a movie where I was so frustrated about

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Speaker 3: it all. I put in my little iPod Nano and

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Speaker 3: was listening to Cat Stevens and in my feelings running

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Speaker 3: through the neighborhood and it's hot, and I just burst

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Speaker 3: into tears, and I feel like I heard this voice

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Speaker 3: saying it's okay, It's okay, and I felt so relieved

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Speaker 3: and felt like at the time that it was God

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Speaker 3: telling me that no matter what happens in the family home,

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Speaker 3: no matter what Dad says or mom says, You're gonna

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Speaker 3: be all right. And it's funny to think about that now.

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Speaker 3: And actually I'm at the other end, and I do.

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Speaker 3: I do think in a way God gave me a

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Speaker 3: little nudge to go, You're gonna be all right. We're gonna,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna we'll get out the other end of this eventually.

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Speaker 3: But I but at that time, it was like, well,

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Speaker 3: God has told me I'm okay and I'll be fine,

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Speaker 3: So I'll just get my head down and not upset

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Speaker 3: anybody and try and make good grades and just kind

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Speaker 3: of get through.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this short break.

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Speaker 4: And how did you decide to move to the UK

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Speaker 4: rather than just go to like Juilliard or well.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do Juilliard and I got a call

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Speaker 3: back in an interview, I got really close, and I

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Speaker 3: had a theater teacher in my high school that was

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Speaker 3: from the UK originally, and he went, why don't you

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Speaker 3: check out Rada or one of the cool schools over there.

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Speaker 3: And I'd never been out of the country, and they

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Speaker 3: had a New York City audition, so I flew up

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Speaker 3: there to so that I didn't have to potentially be

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Speaker 3: told no by flying all the way to the UK.

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Speaker 3: And I thought I blew it, thought I bombed the audition,

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Speaker 3: and I was gonna because in the States the calendar

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Speaker 3: is different, so I had to make a decision on this.

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Speaker 3: They do like a National Decision Day or some stupid

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Speaker 3: thing like that, so I had to I nearly. I

235
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Speaker 3: had a really good financial aid package from a school

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Speaker 3: in Birmingham, Alabama, which has now gone bankrupt a few

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Speaker 3: years ago, which is kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: Dodged the bullet there, but I.

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Speaker 3: Had put my deposit in to go to this school.

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Speaker 3: And then the next day I got my acceptance letter

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Speaker 3: to my school in the UK, and I it was like,

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Speaker 3: I thought I didn't get in. Oh my gosh. So

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Speaker 3: it was such a triumphant, exciting Wow. Judy Dench went there.

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Speaker 3: Laurence Olivier went there, Jess is gonna go abroad and

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Speaker 3: learn how to do Shakespeare. And this is so cool

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Speaker 3: because I was at theater nuts I did something like

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Speaker 3: thirty one shows in six years. I was absolutely theater

248
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Speaker 3: was my life. It was the air that I breathed.

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Speaker 1: So to was this rata or was it a different thing?

250
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Speaker 3: Now? It was the central school of speech in drama.

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Speaker 3: That's what it's called. Okay, and yeah, I went over

252
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Speaker 3: there and it was I was so excited to go.

253
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Speaker 3: And then things got a little hairy because I had

254
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Speaker 3: this thing of well, I'm I tried to come out,

255
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Speaker 3: it didn't really go well, and I'm still gay. And

256
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Speaker 3: now mom and Dad can't run into me at the

257
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Speaker 3: grocery store. So you know, I think when my im

258
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Speaker 3: try and we can turn the volume up on that

259
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Speaker 3: Donna Summer record a little more, like maybe we can,

260
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Speaker 3: maybe we can. Oh, I'm scared of these gay bars.

261
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Speaker 3: I don't know if I the amount of times I

262
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Speaker 3: went out walking and would just walk by. I was

263
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Speaker 3: so terrified to go in, and I had these crazy

264
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Speaker 3: levels of paranoia, Like I went on a date with

265
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Speaker 3: a guy once and we were going through Green Park

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Speaker 3: and at the time. This was before they opened the

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth line at green Park. If you were coming from

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Speaker 3: Heathrow to come to my house, you had to change

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Speaker 3: at green Park from the Piccadilly line. And we passed

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Speaker 3: through green Park and the doors opened, and I was

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Speaker 3: holding his hand and I let go of his hand

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Speaker 3: because it's possible that they might be over here to

273
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Speaker 3: surprise me, and they're gonna be on the platform when

274
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Speaker 3: the door's open, and they're gonna see me kissing this

275
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Speaker 3: guy on the train. So like, not in a really

276
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Speaker 3: mentally stable place, but trying to sort of fumble my way,

277
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Speaker 3: you know, when like a giraffe gets born and it

278
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Speaker 3: hits it like falls eight feet and hits the ground

279
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Speaker 3: and tries to like it's kind of this clumsy I'm

280
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Speaker 3: not turning to Jesus at all. I'm not like the

281
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Speaker 3: God thing is kind of this thing that I don't

282
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Speaker 3: really know about. I kind of remember it and know

283
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Speaker 3: that it's nice, but I, well, I don't know about that.

284
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Speaker 3: So I was just kind of going through life with

285
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Speaker 3: my mind and my body and my immediate surroundings and

286
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Speaker 3: my feelings, and that was that was how I was

287
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Speaker 3: living for a long.

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Speaker 4: Time, and so when did you kind of become comfortable

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Speaker 4: in your own skin as quote unquote a gay man.

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Speaker 3: I think I think there was it was sort of

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Speaker 3: a gradual amp up. But I think what what happened

292
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Speaker 3: was that it was getting too much to bear this

293
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Speaker 3: feeling of dishonesty with my family. Every phone call home

294
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Speaker 3: was in a lie biomission, and I wasn't really being

295
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Speaker 3: honest about what I was doing on the weekends, and

296
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Speaker 3: I was I just it was so awful, and it

297
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 3: started to get in the way of work at school.

298
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Speaker 3: I had my voice teacher call me in after I'd

299
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Speaker 3: blown up and acted crazy in a rehearsal room, and

300
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Speaker 3: she was like, I think you want to do the

301
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 3: counseling session or the counseling program here. And I did

302
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 3: one session, walked home in tears, wanted to call my mom,

303
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 3: just to call my mom, just because I just needed

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Speaker 3: mom talk. And we got to this point in the

305
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 3: phone conversation where there was this thing that we hadn't

306
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 3: talked about, and we're both silent, and we both kind

307
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,040
Speaker 3: of know what's coming. And I don't even think I

308
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 3: said Mom, I'm gay. I just said, Mom, there's this

309
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 3: thing that we've talked about before, and it's not going

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Speaker 3: away and it's not changing, and I need you to

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Speaker 3: know that. I need you to know that because I'm

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Speaker 3: in pain, because I need you to know that. And

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Speaker 3: she was kind and sweet, and it wasn't there wasn't

314
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Speaker 3: any kind of snap reaction. It was just I need

315
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Speaker 3: some time to process, and that was kind of it.

316
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Speaker 3: And then from there, I wrote letters home to my

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Speaker 3: other family members because I we're a family of big personality,

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't. I felt like a phone conversation was

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Speaker 3: too much. If I was, I wouldn't I wouldn't be

320
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 3: able to fight back if they pushed back. So I

321
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 3: wrote letters and poems to everybody. This big elaborates so dramatic,

322
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Speaker 3: but I it was when I got off the phone

323
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Speaker 3: with Mom and I had I ran up to my

324
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Speaker 3: roommate's room upstairs and I was like, I did it,

325
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 3: and she knew what I meant, and I burst into

326
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 3: tears and had this it felt like fifteen twenty minutes

327
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,479
Speaker 3: of this hysterical laughing, hysterical crying. I mean this huge

328
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 3: emotional unburdening, this release of like I finally have done

329
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Speaker 3: this thing that has been the thorn in my side

330
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Speaker 3: since I was fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and like, I'm finally

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Speaker 3: free of it. And the next day I went into

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Speaker 3: school and someone who did not know what had happened said, wow,

333
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, you're you're glowing, like how how are you?

334
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, like it shows they could tell.

335
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 3: And I had a tremor in my hands for most

336
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 3: of my teenage years and I would sweat really easily.

337
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 3: After I came out. That went away. So I had

338
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 3: this really tangible like, oh, I've let go of something

339
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 3: and I can't argue with that. And of course I'm

340
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 3: in a drama school, in movement class hearing the body

341
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 3: never lies kids like, so I'm like, okay, so the

342
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 3: body is my the body is my God or the

343
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 3: physicality or the movement of the universe is like that's

344
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 3: where the truth is. And so this thing went away

345
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,360
Speaker 3: in my body and I went, oh, like this must

346
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 3: be the real deal. And so I think once I

347
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 3: was out then it was like I'm I am buying

348
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 3: clothing that I've never dared buy before, and I'm going

349
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 3: into places I never dared go before. And I was

350
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 3: still very shy, still very scared that I was something

351
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 3: crazy was gonna happen, because like the God thing was

352
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: still kind of in the back of my mind. But

353
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 3: I met my first long term boyfriend, and I think

354
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,479
Speaker 3: it was it was so emotional for me and felt

355
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: so much like intimacy and was so meaningful and important

356
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 3: and significant. Fell in love for the first time, and

357
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 3: I think that was That was when it was like wow, like, look,

358
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 3: I always wanted this artistic, bohemian life and this lifelong lover.

359
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 3: And I even wrote a I wrote a little short

360
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 3: story about an American expat in the nineteen twenties who

361
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 3: runs into this blonde guy out in this seedy little bar.

362
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 3: Well lo and behold, I'm this little American guy in

363
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 3: the twenty twenties and I run into this beautiful blonde

364
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 3: guy in a seedy little bar, and it just seems

365
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 3: like everything, all the all the world is pointing towards

366
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 3: this this nol coward, cold porter, gorgeous Christopherisherwood fantasy.

367
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,400
Speaker 4: And so ja, yeah, I was gonna say, it's totally

368
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 4: I read that book got me together.

369
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Speaker 1: Yes, I was so that was absolutely.

370
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,360
Speaker 3: Which is crazy to think that I took so much.

371
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 3: I took so much solace in this like indulgent, dramatic

372
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 3: like thing, like I never saw a peace.

373
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 6: I wanted exciting, you know, wine filled evenings, which is yeah,

374
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 6: so yeah, it's so that's kind of yeah.

375
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: And then so how long did this relationship last?

376
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 3: It was three and a half years. We that was

377
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 3: through COVID. It was me, It was me, me, it

378
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 3: was me, well, I mean as far as I know,

379
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 3: it was me. We were We did a year and

380
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: eight months long distance over COVID as well physically we

381
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 3: were first we were apart from each other longer than

382
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 3: we were in the same country, in the same place.

383
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but it it really I found myself. It

384
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 3: was so wonderful and amazing. And then I moved home

385
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 3: after school finished, and then the world shut down, so

386
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: then I was stuck over there. And then I moved

387
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: back to the UK on a new visa and a

388
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: new horizon and I'm going to be a citizen and

389
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: this is going to be where I'm gonna settle. And

390
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 3: I moved back in with him, and I find that

391
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: I should be happy, but I'm not. We should be

392
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 3: it should be great, but we're not. And we're I'm

393
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: finding that I'm anxious, and I'm I'm I'm comparing myself

394
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 3: to other boys, and I'm comparing him to other boys,

395
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 3: and I'm comparing us to other couples I'm meeting. And

396
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 3: why am I? Why is my lover my the guy

397
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: who should be my everything? Not like the relationship I

398
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 3: have with my best friend who happens to be a girl. Interesting. Interesting,

399
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 3: But I'm like, why why is that relationship so much

400
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 3: more like what I want with this man? And it

401
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 3: bubbled up and bubbled up and a man, I mean,

402
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 3: we had we had a code word for when I

403
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 3: was getting wobbly like it would. I was, no, you

404
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 3: go to bed, I'll have another splif no, I'm gonna

405
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 3: I'm gonna stretch, I go for a walk, I'll do

406
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 3: some journaling. I mean it was because if it doesn't

407
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 3: go well, the parents who told me that being gay,

408
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 3: that lifestyle is no good and that it's about only sex,

409
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 3: and it's not it's not what God wants. If it

410
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 3: goes badly, then the parents are right. Then damn it,

411
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: my mom and dad are right. So over my dead body,

412
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 3: am I gonna let that happen? So I probably we

413
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: probably got We probably were in there for a year

414
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 3: or two long. I mean I it was six months in.

415
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm thinking about breaking up. Does this

416
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,479
Speaker 3: mean anything? I don't know. I've never been in love before,

417
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: so I guess I'll just ignore that. I mean insanity, insanity,

418
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 3: But I you try and stick with it because you

419
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 3: don't want to validate everybody else that's been saying, hey,

420
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: this probably isn't it, and there's better things in other places.

421
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 4: And were you in other serious relationships like that?

422
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: Yes, there were, there were a few you that were

423
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: shorter because after that broke because after I cheated and

424
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 3: we tried to stay together a little bit after that,

425
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 3: and then we kind of called it a night. Once

426
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: that was done, I was like, here we go, hot

427
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: girl summer because I never got to do that on

428
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: the front end, I like found I came out and

429
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: then kind of met him soon, so I never got

430
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: to do the crazy psychotic city gay thing where we

431
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 3: where we just were.

432
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: I was like, I.

433
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: Didn't get my rum spring, you know, I didn't. I

434
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, we're gonna download Grinder, let's do it,

435
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 3: but it's yeah, I I didn't. I didn't get to

436
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: do that. So I we we went crazy on that front.

437
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 3: And then that was and then you discovered drugs as well, right,

438
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 3: you got it. Well, the drugs. The drug thing was

439
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 3: during during drama school. Yeah, during drama school, we would

440
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 3: go out on the weekends and people were I remember

441
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: very clearly the first time I got invited to go

442
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 3: and have a have a smoke and a chill at

443
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: someone's house and I said, no word of a lie.

444
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: I said on a school night. So that's where I

445
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 3: used to be. I want everything to be traditional, and

446
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: the only difference is it's a man, and I want

447
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: it to be family first and really serious. And no,

448
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be one of those gays that downloads grinder.

449
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be that person that does drugs. I'm

450
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 3: never gonna do that. That's not me, that's not who

451
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: I am. And then slowly you hang out at the

452
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 3: barbershop long enough you're gonna get your haircut. And we

453
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: were going out all the time, and the disco was intoxicating,

454
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: and I start doing MDMA and then we started doing

455
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: coke and there's all this sort of the social thing.

456
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 3: And then yeah, when I'm back in the UK and

457
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 3: we're out partying, it's then by then I've gotten the

458
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 3: I've mustered up the courage to phone the dealer myself

459
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: rather than get somebody else to do it. And so

460
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: the drug stuff starts to was was kind of a

461
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 3: very social thing at first. And it wasn't until later

462
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: that when the acting thing was really running dry and

463
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 3: really letting me down, that I started to work as

464
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: a DJ. And it was when I was DJing that

465
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 3: the drug use really took a spike. Wow.

466
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 4: And and so was it like a daily thing like

467
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 4: the drug thing was?

468
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: It was a daily I mean, when you go to

469
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 3: a party that's three and a half days long, it

470
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: nearly becomes a whole week. You're halfway there. But I

471
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: I it was not a it was there are plenty

472
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: of I mean, I think back on my life and

473
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, shoot, what a crazy what like the horror

474
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 3: of Babylon, what the hell? But but I also like,

475
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: there are plenty of other people like I am a

476
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: my track record, my body counts, I'm like a nun

477
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: compared to some other people. So it was not it's

478
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: much much more intense for a lot of other people.

479
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 4: But I this is, by the way, this is what

480
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 4: a lot of like, you know, normal like heterosexual people

481
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 4: don't understand about the gay male world.

482
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: Oh it is. It's everywhere. It's everywhere.

483
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 4: It's extremely promiscuous, it's extremely dark, it's it's drug fueled,

484
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 4: it's alcohol fuel.

485
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: It is like, yeah, I'm not like and we don't

486
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: have to because we If you get me talking on

487
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: all of that, I'm gonna say something that's gonna get

488
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 3: both of us in trouble. It's gonna we're gonna and

489
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: you're gonna lose the family audience really fast. And maybe

490
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: that's an after hours episode we can do sometimes, but

491
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 3: the family. But the but the drug use was was

492
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 3: I would not And I realized that anyone who has

493
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: a real problem says I didn't have a problem. I

494
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: realized that that's the thing that a lot of people say.

495
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 3: But I it was. I definitely if you'd asked me,

496
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: if you had sat me down and gone, jess, what

497
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: do you what you think about all this? I would

498
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: have said, this is becoming a very expensive habit that

499
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 3: is on the verge of getting out of control. But

500
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 3: it was not a like a It wasn't like a

501
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: withdrawal thing. It was just like a I can't wait

502
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: for the weekend to get freaky. So it wasn't daily,

503
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: but it was. You know, the idea is you pick

504
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: up whatever for a party that's supposed to last one night,

505
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: and then the party ends up lasting a few days

506
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: and then it's then you like you've missed work, or

507
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: you're behind on things, or you you know you haven't eaten.

508
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: Like it it's so quickly gets so, I mean, it's

509
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: just so evil.

510
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 4: It's so evil, And so tell us about because there's

511
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 4: something about a ghost situation. Tell us about the ghost story.

512
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: Because this is very bizarre.

513
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 3: Oh, I was hoping we weren't going to go there.

514
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: So the so a lot. So I mean, if dear listen,

515
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: if you haven't, if you haven't sussed out, I was

516
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: not living my life for Christ during this period of time.

517
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 3: And if you have a god sized hole in your

518
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: heart and in your life, you look for things to

519
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: fill that void. And I over COVID had found myself

520
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: really interested in astrology, found myself interested in taro, and

521
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: again theatrical kid was dev Oz was a big hitter

522
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: for me. I love I've always loved witches. I've always

523
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: think they're so they're the can't be fun cartoon Disney witch.

524
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 3: I always have really enjoyed that as a vibe, and

525
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: so I was always kind of drawn to it. But

526
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: then told that, oh, it's it's demonic and it's satanic,

527
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: and I was like, well, if I'm just looking at

528
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: the cards, like, I'm not calling on Satan to do anything,

529
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: so it must be okay. But I was sort of

530
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: dipping my toe into that, and I took an online

531
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: course in witchcraft over COVID. Tell me you're lost without

532
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: telling me you're lost. And by the way, the water

533
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: of life is free for the taking, so you don't

534
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: have to pay five five, five, five hundred and fifty

535
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: five dollars for to discover your higher self or whatever.

536
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: It's Jesus is free by the way, people. So I, yeah,

537
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: I took this course, and so I was getting really

538
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: into astrology. That was kind of my party trick. Oh baby,

539
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: what's your do you know your moon and your rising? Like,

540
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: let's that. Let's get into that, like, let me let

541
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: me offer some like wise old sage pastoral care to

542
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: help you, like discover your truest, highest self, your uttermost

543
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: good honey. So I was this like that was like

544
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: my social thing that I would do all the time. Well,

545
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: Jess gets lonely, Jess is broke, Jess is like, ugh,

546
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: I wish my two main idols in my life, I

547
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: think were I want to be a star and I

548
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 3: want to find the perfect man. And I was like, well,

549
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: let's do a let's to do a ritual for this

550
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: perfect man to manifest this perfect man. So it was

551
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: a sex magic ritual where I drew a bath and

552
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: filled it with rose petals and drank red wine and

553
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: listened to Judy at Carnegie Hall, because what else do

554
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: you listen to in the bath? And I was imagining

555
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: what he looked like and what he felt like, and

556
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: what he sounded like, and what we would talk about

557
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: and all of this. And I would burn a pink

558
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: candle when I did that pink candle, and then we

559
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: moved into the bedroom and we lit a red candle

560
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: and we had done some unspeakable things with our own

561
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: bodily fluids on this candle and basically had this drawn

562
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: out imaginary thing where I was quote unquote making love

563
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: with this perfect man and essentially having sex with a

564
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: spirit of this thing or this idea of this thing.

565
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: And it was. It was so intense that I was

566
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: I was pushed to emotion hearing this thing tell me

567
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 3: that it loved me, hearing this, feeling this thing hold

568
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: me and I how much of that is just imagination?

569
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: How much of that is Like it's if you don't

570
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: get it and you've never done the occult stuff, you're

571
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: not gonna get it. But it is. It was very,

572
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: very real in the moment, and I the idea with

573
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: witchcraft is that if you can cook it up enough

574
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: to the point where you can feel it, then it

575
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: already exists and all you got to do is align

576
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: yourself and magnetize so that it can come to you easily.

577
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: So I felt like I was calling in the perfect man.

578
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: So when I when I say sex with a ghost,

579
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 3: it's it wouldn't that I drummed up any particular you know,

580
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't get Oscar Wilde to raise from

581
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: the dead. But yeah, that's that was the sex with

582
00:31:59,600 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: the ghosts.

583
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, sex with the sounds like a drink, some kind

584
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 4: of martini dream sex on the beach.

585
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: But it's like it's really really like it's like some

586
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: drink sugar.

587
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: It's skinnier, it's Skinner.

588
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioned Carnegie Connie Gie Hall, Carnegie Hall,

589
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 4: and and.

590
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: Uh, what's her name?

591
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: I just I just.

592
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 7: Love Garland Garland, Okay, because my my dear, my old

593
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 7: friend who no longer speaks to me, of course saying

594
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 7: it Carnegie Hall, and he sang Judy Guard.

595
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: He did the whole thing of Night of Judy Garden.

596
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, oh yeah I heard him.

597
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: I saw he done that thing.

598
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, he and I we were friends back in

599
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: the day, briefly dated, but anyway, he's he thinks I'm crazy,

600
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 4: and like he won't speak to me, but pray for

601
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: rufus anyway, So how long? And then what like what

602
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: was it like going to Pride in London? And like

603
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 4: what was that? Was was that like did you feel like,

604
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 4: oh I'm I'm home at last?

605
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Or like how did you feel?

606
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: Well? There are many I was I think with this,

607
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: like growing up with this fantasy and this the film

608
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: and theater. I lived for the moments where things felt

609
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: lucid and joyful, and that the moment when the music

610
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: swells and you look at your friend and you know

611
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 3: what each other thinking and you both kind of get

612
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: a little teary eyed, and those genuine moments of lightness

613
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: and love and it feels it feels like something pure.

614
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 3: Those are the moments I lived for. So it was

615
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: always in the in the dramatic, heavy moments where I'm

616
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: riding on the bus and looking out the window and

617
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: it's raining and I'm the main character in this film,

618
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: but I'm you know. Nevertheless, she persisted like I had

619
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 3: this weird, indulgent thing in my head about life looking

620
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 3: like the movies. So it was the moments when my

621
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: favorite Diana Ross song comes on and everybody's dancing like

622
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 3: Matt and I look fabulous, and it's like we have arrived,

623
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: Like this is this is it pride. I remember coming

624
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 3: up out of the station and there are so many

625
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: people and I am wearing a top that is not

626
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: even that crazy, but I it was one that I

627
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,479
Speaker 3: like wouldn't wear at home because people would ask questions.

628
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: I would worry that people would ask questions, Like I

629
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: was to be able simply to like wear some shorts

630
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: and a Keith Herring T shirt was and like not

631
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: and have people be like love your outfit. I like

632
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: it was so intoxicating. It was so intoxicating. It's so

633
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: overwhelming and you finally feel like you see it in practice,

634
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: that it is, it's unbridled, and there's nothing that can

635
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 3: stop it, and that you're all united and you're all

636
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: screaming and screeching, and people look amazing and everyone feels hot,

637
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: and it's summertime and you're in one of the greatest

638
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: cities in the world and it's They close off the

639
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 3: streets and it feels so amazing. And then when the

640
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 3: parade ends, something else happens. The parade ends and everyone

641
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 3: congregates in this one park and people are drinking and smoking,

642
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: and then more drugs are passed around, and then things

643
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,479
Speaker 3: get a little wiggy, and then as the sun goes down,

644
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I mean like people are it's it's

645
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: like it's like something. It's like the Hell Mouth and

646
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is opened up and if you're

647
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 3: Heaven Forbid, you're in Vauxhall or Kennington or soho like

648
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 3: it is. It's just a hotbed of like the sex

649
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: parties and the leather parties and the like it is.

650
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: People are having the because the city is so overrun.

651
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 3: During the middle of the day, I mean, people are

652
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 3: getting with each other in fitting room closets and in

653
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: prime mark like it's it's totally overwrought, like it's chaos.

654
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: It's chaos, and so precisely like it's it's exactly like that.

655
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: I remember revisiting Sodom and Gomora more recently, and I

656
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: was like this, this has the the the crazy eyes

657
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: you get when you're like, it's pride. I better have

658
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 3: sex with someone today, because it's like it's like birthday sex.

659
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: I'm I'm entitled to it. I'm it's pride. I'm gay.

660
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: I should have sex today. I should I should be

661
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 3: able to find Surely, I'm in the city with nine

662
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 3: million people on this day when I'm looking my best

663
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: and everyone's looking hot, and we know that everyone's probably

664
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: we could probably find this and make this work. Yes,

665
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 3: we can do it. And then the time ticks by,

666
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 3: it gets later. We're at the club. Yes, okay, oh

667
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: we kissed that one guy, but then he oh I've

668
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: seen him with someone else. Oh crap, Okay, we'll have

669
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 3: another drink well, or we keep going. We keep going. Okay,

670
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: oh we picked up more drugs. Okay, right now we're

671
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: like really going, We're really going. We really want to

672
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: have this and oh club closes. Okay, Oh there's an actress.

673
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 3: Thank god, there's an Oh. Oh they've left in the

674
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: cab already. Okay, I'm on my own in the city.

675
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 3: I don't know where they went. No one's picking up.

676
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 3: And you you walk and you you're on grinder and

677
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 3: it's like you're it's like you're fishing. Just anybody, anybody, anybody.

678
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 3: And there was one there was one time I can't

679
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 3: remember if it was Pride in particular. I think it

680
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 3: was where I I walked through London on Grinder, desperate

681
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: to find some somebody was still up, because at that

682
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,479
Speaker 3: point it's like it's a little too late. Sun's up

683
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 3: by now. And I stopped in a train station because

684
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: my phone was dying. And I could have gone home.

685
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: I could have gotten on the train and gone home,

686
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: but instead I plugged my phone into a socket in

687
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: the wall in this train station and sat there on

688
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 3: grinder and waited till I found someone who had just

689
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: woken up and wanted to wanted to meet up. And

690
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: this this is not liberation, that in itself is bondage, slavery. Hell,

691
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: it's it was crazy. It was so I like the

692
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: fact that I we oh, just it is it is

693
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 3: absolute enslavement. You're you're just under the thumb of your

694
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: of your own appetite and out it's just it's out

695
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: of control. And that that happened all the time, where

696
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 3: it was like there's surely there's you get this, like

697
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 3: it's oh, oh, it's just it's it's terrible. It's terrible,

698
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: it's terrible.

699
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 4: So what Okay, So then what happened that? Why did

700
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: you why did things start to change? And why did

701
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 4: you decide to go back to your Bible?

702
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 3: This is my favorite part of the story.

703
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 5: Well, I I was I was dating this guy and

704
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 5: he was really sweet and astrologically we were almost the

705
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 5: same and.

706
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: That was great.

707
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: And we were both cancers and both burgo. I was like,

708
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 3: we're both aries moons and we get along so well

709
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: and whatever. And I start feeling this once again, this

710
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: pull of like hm, I feel like I don't really

711
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 3: want to commit, I don't really know like he's nice,

712
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: but like there's other guys out there that are And

713
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: I start thinking about God again, very very quietly, very

714
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: very quietly, and I sort of am so broke and

715
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 3: feel like nothing's really working. I've moved to this big city,

716
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: tried to pursue the acting thing. Theater feels like he

717
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: doesn't really want me anymore, and the DJ thing starts

718
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: to sell and starts to work. So I'm like, this

719
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: is cool. But no matter how hard I I sidhe

720
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: hustle and keep my chin up and do my little

721
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 3: affirmations in the mirror and try and Louise Hay my

722
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: way through a bad day, nothing's really working. And I

723
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: start to have this feeling of I wonder if I

724
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 3: just kind of want to see for myself. I just

725
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 3: maybe there's like gosh, like how do those Christians afford

726
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: all those kids?

727
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: Like how do they?

728
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: How do they? I don't understand, Like it just seems

729
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: like maybe I'm just doing so maybe I am just

730
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: missing something. Maybe maybe maybe there is something to this

731
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: that I just haven't Maybe I just didn't get it.

732
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe there is a way that I could. I

733
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 3: don't know. It was just a very gentle thing. Trump

734
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 3: got elected. He gave a speech at his inauguration, and

735
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 3: I found myself watching inauguration speeches and I had been

736
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 3: away from the US for a long time, and I

737
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: had this deep like, oh, I miss the American spirit.

738
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: I miss my people. I miss being around that like energetic,

739
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 3: howdy partner, how are you buddy? Like I I was.

740
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 3: I was sick of the tea. I was sick of

741
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: the milky tea. And I missed coffee. I missed black

742
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: coffee so badly, I know. And I was like, you

743
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: only have so many kappas of tea. Oh you can't,

744
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: I mean, And I and I love I love it

745
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: And Britain was a beautiful home to me, and was

746
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 3: I adore that I came to. I met myself and

747
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: while I met Jesus in Britain, so you know, we

748
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: love it there. But it's it's it's but I was

749
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 3: missing home and all of these speeches that that, you know,

750
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: Reagan's giving or Trump's giving or what or whoever it was.

751
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 3: I don't know.

752
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: There was this thing the well he died a long

753
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: time ago.

754
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: But anyway, no, I was watching clips of old inauguration speeches.

755
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: Oicy icy, okay, okay, that.

756
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 3: Was the ghost I had sex with. I didn't want

757
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: to admit it, but it was Ragan. And that's why

758
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 3: I'm not saying anymore. No, it's so okay, wait, wait,

759
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: bring it back. So I was watching these speeches from

760
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: the from inaugurations and there's all this talk about, you know,

761
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 3: God in our country, and I was just starting to

762
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: think about God again and I really wasn't sure what

763
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,479
Speaker 3: to do with that feeling. But I ended up breaking

764
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: up with this boy and he was like, is there

765
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: anything I can do? After everything?

766
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 6: Well?

767
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: What could I do? And I was like it was

768
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: It was the first person I admitted it out loud too.

769
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: I said, Okay, honestly, I've been I've been thinking about

770
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: God a lot lately, and I just don't know if

771
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 3: this is the right thing I need to be doing.

772
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like a sin or anything.

773
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 3: I just I don't know if this is what I

774
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: need to do. And the way his face fell like

775
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: he knew there was nothing. There's nothing you can say

776
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 3: to that if someone's like, it's God, actually.

777
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: And so it's not you, it's God.

778
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 3: It's not you or me, it's God. Right. So I

779
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: walked away from that, and then I did the single

780
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: you know Brat Girl. Summer still had a choke hold

781
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 3: on everybody. So I was doing bumps and going to

782
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 3: the club and whatever, and then I went to this

783
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,399
Speaker 3: party on a Friday night and it was a sort

784
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: of London druggie eventually a sort of sexy whatever party,

785
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: and I did not leave until the early hours of

786
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 3: Monday morning. And I remember looking around at this party thinking, Ugh,

787
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 3: what are we doing lads? Like what are we really

788
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: going to be doing this until we're in our thirties, forties, fifties,

789
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: and like when we're no longer hot and young? Is

790
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: that when we get the nice apartment and the yappie

791
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: dog and fingers crossed we found a man by then

792
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 3: to stick it out with us till we die? Where

793
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: do we And if that doesn't happen, are we going

794
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: to be the embittered old queen at the end of

795
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: the bar, drinking gin regaling us with showbiz stories that

796
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 3: no one cares about? Like what's the Is that all

797
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 3: there is? You know? It's it was all that, It

798
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: was all of that. I was like, is I don't

799
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: I don't know? Ugh? And I I called my mom

800
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: a few days ago, a few good days later, and

801
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: I said, Mom, I think I'm caught up in a

802
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: culture that's kind of killing me. And I was wondering

803
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: if you could ship me my Bible and she was like,

804
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: of course I can't. Of course I can do that.

805
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 3: Well overnight it we'll do o kid, Yeah, of course.

806
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 3: And I got off the phone and I couldn't wait.

807
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 3: I was like, I need, I just need, I just

808
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 3: need to read. I needed to I need to see

809
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 3: what the deal is. And I had about I think

810
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 3: I had twenty pounds in one bank account and ten

811
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 3: or eleven pounds in another bank account. And I was

812
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: working as a walking tour guide at the time, and

813
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 3: I went to the closest bookshop I could find that

814
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: was near the British Museum, and I was like, Okay,

815
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 3: I get paid at midnight tomorrow, so if I move

816
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 3: this money around, I can buy this Bible, tap into

817
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 3: the tube, get home, and if I don't leave my

818
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 3: house at all tomorrow, then I'll get paid and then

819
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: it'll be fine. And that's how I lived for months.

820
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: I was doing that all the time, down to the wire.

821
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 3: I'm not sweat, I've been here before, who cares? So

822
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 3: I started reading in Genesis on the train because I

823
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: didn't know where else to start. And for the first

824
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: time I was there in the garden. For the first time,

825
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 3: I was there with Abraham and Sarah. When Sarah laughs,

826
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: I was I was there when the when the ocean

827
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 3: parts and they're walking through and they turn around and

828
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 3: they see this entire army enveloped by an ocean. I

829
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: was there. I was there. I could feel it, I

830
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: could see it, and it meant something that had it

831
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: had never meant before. And then, like a lot of us,

832
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: when I reached numbers, I couldn't bear the lists and

833
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 3: I was like, maybe I'll try the New Testament. I

834
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: was like, I can't be doing with these, but it

835
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 3: completely it was so so different. And then something interesting happened.

836
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 3: I I started praying more. I was. I was lying

837
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: to my boss at work and not going to pick

838
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: up groups of ornery French tourists in Travalgar Square and

839
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: instead going to Saint Paul's Cathedral to pray. Lying that

840
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: I was. I was like cutting cut in school to

841
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 3: go and talk to God. And I had my moment

842
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: of Jesus, I need you yesterday, like I don't I

843
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 3: don't know how to do this. I don't know how

844
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: to be a believer. Can you show me how to

845
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: do this? Can you? I'm I like something's happening, and

846
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: this is crazy, and I was like, Okay, I think

847
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: we're I think this is happening. And I have this

848
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 3: older sister that when she came to Christ years before,

849
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 3: just before I left for the UK, she came to Christ,

850
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: and as it happens, when you come to Christ, do

851
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 3: you change. And when people don't really understand what's going on,

852
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: people get strange. And I don't think that my family

853
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: quite understood what was going on with her, and she,

854
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: as a result, had to elope. So it was about

855
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: five and a half years since i'd spoken to her.

856
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 3: We were on good terms and we hadn't fallen out

857
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: or anything. I just hadn't heard from her in nearly

858
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: six years. And I was on my roof reading Proverbs

859
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: and I went, Lord, I don't know what the hell

860
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: happened back there, but I would love to forgive and forget.

861
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: I would love to tell her what's happening to me? Lord?

862
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 3: Can you bring my sister back to me? And because

863
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: I was on a UK phone number, I had never

864
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: tried because I thought, oh, my plan doesn't let like

865
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: all out because I'm broke, That's not gonna work. And

866
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 3: I had this really gentle impulse to text her directly,

867
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't know if she's blocked

868
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 3: me at all, I don't know. And I said, hey,

869
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 3: it's Jess. I have some news, nothing bad. I hope

870
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 3: you're well. And she rang me back in two minutes. Minutes,

871
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 3: she rang me back after nearly six years of complete silence,

872
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: and it was, Oh, my word, it's so wonderful to

873
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 3: hear your voice. What there's You've had kids, That's so cool.

874
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: How are you You sound the same, but you sound

875
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 3: so different. Oh my god, my sister is back in

876
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: my life. And within a week of that phone call,

877
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 3: she had reconnected with my mom and with my other sister,

878
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 3: and there's this reconciliation that's starting to happen. And I

879
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: was like, okay, okay, Lord, you've really really got my attention. Okay, cool.

880
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 3: And then I had this really nice Holy September where

881
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: I was dipping into church services and praying like crazy

882
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 3: and reading my scripture and he he ha ha, I've

883
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 3: really got a grip on this. And Halloween rolls around

884
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: and I have a bunch of DJ gigs lined up.

885
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: I have a Thursday eight to midnight, a Friday nine

886
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: to three in the morning, a Saturday nine to three

887
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 3: in the morning, and then at Sunday ten to two

888
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 3: am in the morning. Well, I do Thursday, I do Friday,

889
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: I do Saturday nine to three am. And then I

890
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: go to an after party where I do not go home.

891
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: I do not sleep. I don't think I ate either,

892
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: bought more, ran out of drugs, bought more drugs at

893
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: that party, stayed up, and then went directly to my

894
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 3: gig on Sunday that started at ten pm. Went home

895
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: with someone from that gig at two am, stayed at

896
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: their place, screwed around with snort and powder, and then

897
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 3: went to the train station for a modeling gig out

898
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: of town that I had, where they sorted us off

899
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: into hotel rooms and they paired me with one of

900
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: the most beautiful men I've ever seen, and I had

901
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: a little bit of coke left over, and we did

902
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: more ridiculous stupid stuff, and I turned around and went,

903
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: what the hell I thought? I thought I'd kicked this.

904
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 3: I thought we were done with this. Like, not only

905
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 3: did I backslide, I backslid fell off the roof and

906
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: into the lake. Like it was bad. And I called

907
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: my sister in tears, and I was like this is like,

908
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: so everybody is in an open relationship and no one

909
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: really cares about anyone, and this whole community is based

910
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: on is just held together by drugs and sex and alcohol,

911
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 3: and it's all fun in games until something really matters,

912
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 3: and then it's being people are catty and mean and

913
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 3: everyone's just damaged and lost. And I don't want any

914
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 3: part of this anymore. This is so, this is so horrendous,

915
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: and I feel like I can't get out. I feel

916
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: like I can't stop. I feel like this is like

917
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 3: what uh? And the next day I had a tour

918
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 3: group and court naturally, they were a group of French tourists.

919
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 3: It's always the French tourists, and they don't speak any

920
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: English and they don't tip either, and I just exhausting.

921
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 3: And I went into this Catholic church in Soho because

922
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 3: you in the city, the Catholic churches are a bit

923
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 3: cleaner and you don't have to watch your back. So

924
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 3: I went into this one officeode square and I got

925
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 3: on my knees and I, oh, I remember it so clearly.

926
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: I said, God, get me out of here. And I

927
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 3: don't know if that means get me new friends or

928
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,439
Speaker 3: get me a new job because I kind of didn't

929
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: want to get out of let like, oh, don't take

930
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 3: me out away from here. But what I was saying,

931
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 3: I was hesitant saying it, God, get me out of here.

932
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 3: I don't know if that means get me new friends

933
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 3: or get me a new job. But I am so

934
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: far in the pit I cannot see my hand in

935
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: front of my face, like, get me out of here. Lord.

936
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 3: That was on a Tuesday morning. Wednesday morning, my sister

937
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 3: called me and said, Hey, I've been talking to my

938
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 3: family about what you're going through. You've said you're behind

939
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: on rent, you're behind on some credit card payments, You're behind.

940
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 3: You kind of feel like you can't get out of

941
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 3: the city because you're sort of shackled financially. You're already

942
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: coming home for Thanksgiving. Why don't you not get on

943
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 3: the plane back, itemize what you need. We'll all chip

944
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 3: in and we'll cut you loose. Come stay with us

945
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: for a couple of months. We'll find you a car,

946
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 3: you can get yourself a job, you can be around

947
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: other believers. You're new in your faith, you're weak in

948
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: your faith. Why don't you like give it a shot? Overnight?

949
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 3: Within less than twenty four hours, a solution, an opportunity,

950
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 3: and I said I couldn't possibly leave this city. Life

951
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 3: I have, life was too good over here. What are

952
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: you talking about? And then she said, I'm trying to

953
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 3: make an offer your you're unable to refuse, like you've

954
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 3: been telling you Just yesterday you told me how terrible

955
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: it all is. So are you gonna go? Or are

956
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 3: you not? Iner you out? And I and thank God,

957
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: praise Jesus that I said yes. And I had a

958
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 3: week and a day to pack all my stuff up,

959
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: get everything into storage. And my landlord was understanding, and

960
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 3: it'd seen that I had been acting a bit differently

961
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 3: within the last month or two and was an angel

962
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 3: in understanding and let me let me pay him once

963
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 3: I got back on American soil. And that was I said,

964
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 3: I'll give it. Three months and two days ago, I

965
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 3: think I'm nine months drug free and I'm I've paid

966
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 3: off three student loans and I've zeroed out my British

967
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: Amix that was hanging over my head. And at some

968
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: point I decided to sit I made the crazy decision

969
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 3: to sit down in front of my phone and say Hi,

970
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 3: my name's Jess. And I think being gay's a colossal

971
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 3: waste of time. And here we are.

972
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: And the praise God. So what was like?

973
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 4: What was there like a kind of a moment, like

974
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 4: a turning point where you went from darkness to light

975
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 4: like was it like or was it just that that

976
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 4: gradual kind of reading the Bible?

977
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 3: Well, the gradual thing was was the main structure. But

978
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 3: I think the primary, the primary thing that happened was

979
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 3: that I was reading Galatians. It was five sixteen and

980
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 3: seventeen the spiritless after the matters of the spirit the flesh,

981
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 3: because after the matter of the flesh, and the two

982
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: are contrary, with the one to the other, so that

983
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: you cannot do what you want. It wasn't the Leviticus verse.

984
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 3: It wasn't the other usual, the famous Klobber verses. It

985
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 3: was I have grown up my whole life feeling conflicted

986
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: about God and my sexuality. I feel so in conflict. Well,

987
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 3: guess what, baby cakes, you are in conflict and feeling

988
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 3: conflict on purpose. It is by design that you feel

989
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 3: feel conflicted. It's it's that's that's the point you feel

990
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 3: tied between the two because you must make a choice.

991
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: And that was the that was the thing that really

992
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 3: clicked me over to go whoa, I actually, yeah, they

993
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 3: are too. They're two separate things and you can't serve

994
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 3: two masters. And I like I It was the the

995
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: appetite versus the spirit, this thing that I've just gotten

996
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: to know, like, how do I yeah? But it was

997
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 3: it was Galatians five was the the thing where I went, oh,

998
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: maybe I've gotten it wrong. And what was interesting was

999
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: that it wasn't an emotional but this is who I am. No,

1000
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 3: I can't, I can't throw all those away. It wasn't

1001
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 3: anything crazy like that. It was it was like I

1002
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 3: was playing a card game and someone went, oh, no, no,

1003
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: you can't. You can't discard unless you draw first. And

1004
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 3: you go, oh, sorry, hold on, I'll just fix that.

1005
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 3: I went, oh there are rules, Oh there's a design.

1006
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:46,919
Speaker 3: Oh I'm doing it wrong. I love that. So yeah,

1007
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 3: it really it was such a It was so quiet.

1008
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't this. It wasn't this like big

1009
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 3: crazy emotional thing, this identity crisis. I mean that came later,

1010
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 3: because I mean it was I was listening to I

1011
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 3: was listening to you. You or your podcast was an

1012
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 3: amazing resource for me. And I was listening to Zaria

1013
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 3: Butterfield one of her testimonies where she's like, it's just

1014
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 3: not true. I went, oh, it's not true. Crap. I

1015
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 3: mean it really, it's it's been wild, it's been wild.

1016
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 3: But I mean it felt like a train wreck because

1017
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: all of my friends were we're gay, and we're drag queens,

1018
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: and we're feminists and all this, you know, everyone. I

1019
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 3: didn't have anyone I could talk to Jesus about. And

1020
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 3: so all of these online online resources that I was finding,

1021
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 3: Christopher Yuan's book and his talks and things, I mean,

1022
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 3: it was really it was so it really really showed

1023
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 3: me that there's a there's a version of this life

1024
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 3: that I have found myself in where there's there, where

1025
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 3: there's hope, and there's movement, and it's and it's just

1026
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 3: been Jesus is the best thing that's ever happened to me.

1027
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,919
Speaker 3: It's ever happened to me, Praise God.

1028
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 4: So wait, tell me what happened when you flipped on

1029
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 4: the switch on your phone and started recording these videos.

1030
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 4: How did people react? How did your friends react? I

1031
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 4: did quote unquote gay Christians react.

1032
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: Because I heard you say that they were the ones

1033
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: that came at you. The most people are the quote

1034
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: unquote gay Christians.

1035
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 3: Well, like, I'm a big softie. So when I when

1036
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 3: I I didn't. I arrived in Knoxville and was like this,

1037
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 3: there's nothing going on in this one horse town. I'm

1038
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 3: accustomed to nine million people on my doorstep and there's

1039
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: always something going on, and like it's boring. I was like,

1040
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 3: this is boring. I'm bored here. And then I was like, well,

1041
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 3: I went to this hotshot drama school in London. Maybe

1042
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 3: I can swing apart in a in some regional theater,

1043
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 3: you know, maybe I can swing an equity contract and

1044
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 3: do something. And I met with the theater director and

1045
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 3: the table that we were seting that was wobbly, and

1046
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: he kind of picked his nose one too many times,

1047
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 3: trying to be subtle, and he wasn't, and I just thought,

1048
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: good lord, like I was driving home, going god, okay, fine, fine,

1049
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 3: if you I have given my life to the to

1050
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: the theater, I have lived by like it has been

1051
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: the it has been everything to me. If you really

1052
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: really really want me to give this up, give this

1053
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: passion up, give this skill up, fine, fine, I'll do it,

1054
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 3: and I'll be busy about it. But I want to obey.

1055
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: I want, I want what you want for me, and

1056
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 3: I don't want anything else. But if I if I

1057
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: really have to do this, I will fine. And I

1058
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 3: got home and I smoked a cigarette and I thought,

1059
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 3: I've been I've been thinking about sharing my story online.

1060
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 3: But what about my acting career. What if I get canceled?

1061
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,479
Speaker 6: What if the oh no, what if Ryan Murphy sees

1062
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 6: me and doesn't want me on his show?

1063
00:58:58,320 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 3: We know that one above the salt rhyd of my

1064
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 3: I know, I know it's like and we all know

1065
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 3: what a bum decision that would turn out to be. Anyway,

1066
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't want I don't want to. I

1067
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 3: don't want it even near me. No, thank you. But

1068
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: I I was like, oh what like know it's I'm

1069
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 3: not gonna Oh the dream will be dead and deferred

1070
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 3: if I talk about Jesus online. And then I went, girl,

1071
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 3: what acting career? What are you talking about? Nobody knows

1072
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 3: who you are, no one cares. You haven't done any

1073
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: you've done an immersive dining experience. What the hell you

1074
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: you have no acting career? Shut up, shut up? And

1075
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 3: I went, okay, fine, I have nothing I have literally

1076
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 3: nothing to lose. I have twenty five dollars in my

1077
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: bank account. I am living with family in recovery of

1078
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: some kind of I've made this crazy decision. I'll just whatever, Fine, Fine,

1079
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 3: I'll do it. I didn't think anything was gonna happen.

1080
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 3: I thought maybe I'd get eight hundred views, and like,

1081
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: maybe maybe I'll just like the video diary for me.

1082
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 3: I guess I really didn't think anything was gonna happen.

1083
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 3: And then I woke up the next morning and it

1084
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 3: had been watched three hundred and fifty thousand times, and

1085
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 3: then by the end of the day it was eight

1086
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty. And then I had ten thousand people

1087
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 3: following me, and then I had thirty thousand people following me,

1088
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 3: and then I had forty third and it was it

1089
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: was so crazy to like to see the numbers jump

1090
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 3: and to see comments rolling in, and I had four

1091
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 3: hundred messages rolling in in the space of a couple

1092
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 3: of hours, and people are going, I'm going through the

1093
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 3: same thing. This is amazing. I have parents reaching out

1094
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: to me saying, my son has come out as this,

1095
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 3: or my daughter has come out as that. What do

1096
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 3: I do? And I'm like, what do I do with

1097
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 3: the Like I suddenly overnight had a ministry on my hands,

1098
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 3: and wow. I was like, well, okay, well I guess

1099
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: I guess I got to respond to some of these messages.

1100
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 3: I guess I whoa and I you know when I

1101
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: was a and it made me what was What was

1102
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 3: incredible though, is that ivery. I caught it really early,

1103
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 3: going ooh, maybe I'll get endorsed by massa chips, ooh

1104
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: maybe maybe maybe what's that Patriot mobile maybe or whoever

1105
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 3: whatever that was, you know, the usual kind of cowboy

1106
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 3: colostrum or the you know, the people that endorsed the

1107
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 3: conservative folks. I was like, oh maybe, oh look at this, like, oh,

1108
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 3: here we go, and I went, hold on, brother, hold on,

1109
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 3: we gotta it's about following Jesus. And we started doing

1110
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 3: this because we're talking about Jesus and this is not

1111
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 3: we're no no, no, no, no no no. We cannot.

1112
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 3: We cannot get sucked into this fixation on numbers. We

1113
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 3: cannot post anything unless we get the green light from

1114
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: from my heavenly Father. We cannot. The minute this becomes

1115
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 3: about anything else other than Jesus, we can't. Oh it's

1116
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 3: it's danger, danger danger. I don't. I don't. I am.

1117
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 3: And it gave me accountability. I got recognized in public.

1118
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 3: Two days later. I was like, oh, well, I guess

1119
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 3: I can't. I guess I can't mess up and go

1120
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: to the Oops. I found myself at a gay bar

1121
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 3: and oops, I'm on grinder and Oop. I can't do

1122
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: that because I don't know when I meet someone now

1123
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 3: if they've seen me online. So I can't do that.

1124
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 3: Thank God, I'm too proud to let it to screw up.

1125
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,439
Speaker 3: I don't. I can't. I can't do that. I don't.

1126
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 3: So I'm like, it's he's knows me. So he knows

1127
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: me so well, he knows me so well to put

1128
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 3: in little things that just keep me on track. But

1129
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 3: I it's given me accountability, It's given me a ministry opportunities.

1130
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: It's it has it, and it made me reliable on

1131
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 3: my Bible and on the Lord in a way that

1132
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: it that I never had been before. Because suddenly I

1133
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 3: was like, well, oh God, like I please, I need

1134
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 3: answers like I was it. I was like, the only

1135
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 3: way that I will be able to handle this, because

1136
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 3: had I been famous, had it gone well out of

1137
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 3: drama school. I think I would have been chewed up

1138
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 3: and spat out, eaten alive. I easily would have ended

1139
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 3: up in the twenty seven club easily. And I think

1140
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 3: the only way that I'm I am, I have been

1141
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: able to deal with this with a modicum of discernment

1142
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 3: and levelheadedness. It's because of the words in this book

1143
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 3: and the the and the and depending on and depending

1144
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 3: on Christ. It's the only way, the only way I've

1145
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 3: been able to handle this, because yeah, I think about

1146
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 3: how I was. I mean, it would have just would

1147
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: have been devoured, would have been devoured.

1148
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 4: And so what do you say to people who reacted

1149
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 4: to your videos who are saying things like you know,

1150
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 4: you're not being your authentic self?

1151
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: Like why aren't you being your true self? Like what's

1152
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: going on? Like what do you what did you say?

1153
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:49,919
Speaker 1: What did you say to those people? Or what would

1154
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: you say to those people?

1155
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 3: Well, one, you probably don't know me. For one, you

1156
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 3: don't know me. And also I spent fifteen years thinking

1157
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 3: I was being who I thought I was.

1158
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: I spent all that time.

1159
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 3: Thinking I was thinking I was being authentic.

1160
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 8: I was I was doing rage rituals to release the

1161
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 8: burdens of intergenerational trauma, and I was I was being

1162
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 8: a voice for queer people, and I was wearing my

1163
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 8: heels in the Pride parade.

1164
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 3: I tried being myself and it was awful. I tried

1165
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 3: that and I was wrong. And I tried that and

1166
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 3: it was inconsistent and it was unreliable because I get

1167
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 3: pimples and I have gas, and I gotta eat every

1168
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: four hours, and I have to pay bills, and I

1169
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 3: die at the end of all of this. I don't

1170
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 3: want to rely on that. I don't want to rely

1171
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 3: on a boyfriend who forgets to text me, forgets my birthday,

1172
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 3: or I forget his and then we get an argument.

1173
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 3: I don't want to he also gets pimples and has

1174
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 3: gas and is annoying and gets angry and dies at

1175
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 3: the end of all of that, I don't want to

1176
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 3: put my faith in that at all, Man or woman.

1177
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 3: I don't want that. So your true self is gar

1178
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 3: It's garb. But your true self is not worth your time.

1179
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 3: And your true self is in Jesus Christ. And that

1180
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 3: makes no sense if you don't know what I'm talking about.

1181
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 3: And I pray to God that you get slapped across

1182
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: the face, and you have a revelation that is louder

1183
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: and impossible to ignore because when you understand what I

1184
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 3: mean by that, everything changes. Everything changes. But you I

1185
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 3: don't want to be who I truly am. I don't

1186
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 3: want to do that. I don't want to do that

1187
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 3: because I don't. It's it's gross, it's gross. It's gross. No,

1188
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 3: I don't want to be my true self. My true

1189
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 3: self is evil and weak. Oh, I gotta calm down.

1190
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 3: I'm sweating.

1191
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 4: I can't say now you're your to yourself, you're finally

1192
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 4: your truerself because you're furious.

1193
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 3: My true self is furious on the behalf of the kingdom. Yes,

1194
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 3: fed up with this basic behavior.

1195
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm so happy that, uh, you can't the

1196
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 4: prodigal came home to the Lord, that God dragged you

1197
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 4: back kicking and screaming to himself, and that you have

1198
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 4: an amazing future ahead of you, young man, and that

1199
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 4: you're you have eternal life, which is kind of a

1200
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 4: big deal. And you know, you have a relationship with

1201
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 4: the King of the universe, which I always say, you

1202
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 4: know this, like he'll never leave him for saying he's

1203
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 4: not like your boyfriends are Jesus.

1204
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 3: Doesn't do open relationships.

1205
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 7: He doesn't relationships, he doesn't leave it for sake, he

1206
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 7: doesn't cheat on you.

1207
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 3: Why like and you know what, I horror around. I

1208
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 3: still still find it. You find little ways to horror

1209
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 3: around and you He is so faithful to me, and

1210
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 3: I still in my thoughts, Oh that, oh that sexual encounter.

1211
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 3: Oh I'm oh, I'm enticed. So I'm pulled away or

1212
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 3: I'm blown about by every doctrine like it's it's an

1213
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 3: ongoing thing, but it is. I keep He's so faithful,

1214
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 3: He's so good to me, and I I the my

1215
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 3: repentance prayer is usually the prodigal son, Lord, I've sinned

1216
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 3: it against you and in the eyes of heaven and

1217
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 3: I'm not where they'd be culture son. That's usually how

1218
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 3: I started. It's yeah, the idea that there's there's joy

1219
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 3: in the presence of angels of God in heaven over

1220
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,479
Speaker 3: one sinner that repenteth. I remember reading that and crying, going,

1221
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 3: what do you mean they're celebrating over me? Over me? What?

1222
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 3: Like there's a I imagine this kind of like celestial

1223
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 3: like soccer match arena, like it's Wembley and it's like yeah,

1224
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 3: like it's all it's like they're just like throwing their

1225
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 3: crowns in the air. They're like little halos in the

1226
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 3: air like it's graduation or something. You know. It's just

1227
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 3: it's like like they're at the dog track. I don't know,

1228
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 3: it's just funny to think about it that way.

1229
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 4: But h yeah, Well I am so happy for you, Jess.

1230
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 4: And let's just I just want to repeat your mantra.

1231
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 4: Being gay is a waste of time. So if anyone's watching,

1232
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 4: who is stuck in that life. I don't like the

1233
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 4: word lifestyle, but if you're stuck in that life, please

1234
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 4: just do it, justa just just grab a Bible and

1235
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 4: just start reading it and ask God to change you

1236
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 4: and reveal.

1237
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: Himself to you.

1238
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,879
Speaker 4: And he will just keep knocking and he'll open the door, honestly.

1239
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 3: And it's like I remember I remember saying, Lord, I

1240
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 3: don't really know about this whole gay thing, Like I

1241
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: don't know if it's really a sin. I don't know,

1242
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I'm on paper, I'm a pretty

1243
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 3: good like secular Like secularly, I'm a good person, Like okay,

1244
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 3: I've like I shoplift protein bars, but like I'm I'm like,

1245
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 3: I don't wy, I don't, I don't. I'm like, I'm

1246
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 3: not rude whatever, But I remember saying, Lord, show me

1247
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 3: my sin so that I can be repulsed by it

1248
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 3: if it's really if it's really wrong, and if it's

1249
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 3: really something I don't need to do because I'm too stubborn,

1250
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,440
Speaker 3: show me my sins so that I can be repulsed

1251
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: by it then. And it's a scary prayer to pray,

1252
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 3: because you because he answers, but I, I mean, I

1253
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 3: was at those parties going I don't want to do

1254
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 3: this any like, I don't oh no, like this hookup

1255
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 3: was weird, this like this guy's I don't feel this

1256
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 3: is if you are, if you're sitting over there going, well,

1257
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's I don't know if any

1258
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 3: of this is real, or if I don't ask him

1259
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 3: to reveal himself to you get sitting the very things

1260
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 3: that you're thinking to yourself. He already knows anyway, But

1261
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 3: if you report it to him, if you say, I'm

1262
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 3: not sure about this whole sin homosexuality thing, like can

1263
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 3: you be clear with me? Can you show me? Can

1264
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 3: you help me understand this? Can you help me be

1265
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 3: a believer? Can you show me how to be a believer?

1266
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,799
Speaker 3: Like the beginner questions, are I found to be super helpful?

1267
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, amen to that. We're gonna leave it there.

1268
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 4: And by the way, I just want to just emphasize

1269
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 4: that if there are any people watching who are gay,

1270
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:04,879
Speaker 4: who identify as gay.

1271
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: This, we're Everything we're saying is out of love because

1272
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: we we've been there, we've done that.

1273
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 4: We know what it's like to be in bondage, we

1274
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 4: know what it's like to be in darkness, and now

1275
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 4: we've been transferred into the Kingdom of light.

1276
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: And it is absolutely unbelievable. And you will never regret it.

1277
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 3: No, you won't. And it's and it and it is

1278
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 3: it's it felt like a breakup. When I was walking

1279
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 3: around the city the last time, I was crying and

1280
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 3: I was listening to Gladys Knight and the Pips, and

1281
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 3: I was going, what am I doing walking away from

1282
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 3: all of this? And oh, I used to be so

1283
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 3: cool and go to house parties or do drugs. And

1284
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 3: then it was like, well, zoom out, You're anxious, depressed,

1285
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 3: broke all the time. Life is not actually that great,

1286
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 3: and it's it's that thing of like if you say, yea, yeah, yeah,

1287
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 3: I've been really happy lately, you're actually kind of not.

1288
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 3: I think we all kind of I said being gay

1289
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 3: is a waste of time the very first time, as

1290
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 3: a joke, when some guy was texting me back and

1291
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 3: I went ugh, and I think I threw my phone

1292
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 3: across the room and someone went what I went, being

1293
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 3: gay such a waste of time? And my gay friends

1294
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,679
Speaker 3: went ha ha ha, Oh don't I know it ain't

1295
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 3: that the truth because we understand that it's a sort

1296
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 3: of there is a sort of frivolity to it. There

1297
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 3: is a we get that we're we're literally living the

1298
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 3: fantasy because we've all just built a giant pillow fort

1299
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 3: to live our lives out of. And no, don't take

1300
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 3: away our blankets because we'll just well we because we

1301
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 3: know we're just we got our heads in the sand

1302
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. And there's there's so

1303
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 3: much I want to say, but I I am. I

1304
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 3: it is. I loved, loved, loved my life, or thought

1305
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 3: I loved it, and then it suddenly turned around and

1306
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 3: seemed to not love me back. And Jesus loves you

1307
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 3: despite your brokenness, despite It doesn't matter what you've done,

1308
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 3: doesn't matter how many boys you've slept with, don't matter

1309
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 3: how many times you've ended up at fifty sixteen Street

1310
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 3: getting your blood's done. It doesn't matter. He loves you

1311
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 3: despite your brokenness, and he wants you you close to him,

1312
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,759
Speaker 3: He wants you here. The message is the same though,

1313
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 3: for me and Beckett, as it is for your uncle Mike,

1314
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 3: and you're weird aunt Sally and the straight people too,

1315
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 3: because we're all broken. We are all broken. That's why

1316
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 3: we all need saving. So it's not some kind of

1317
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 3: homosexuality is worse than any other thing. It's this is.

1318
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 3: This is my this is what I'm called to talk

1319
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 3: about because this is I was living it up and

1320
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 3: do it gay maxing through. I mean I was, I

1321
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 3: was doing it. So I just I Yes, if you're

1322
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 3: hearing this, if you're hearing this, it's not what you

1323
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 3: thought it was gonna be, and it's not what you

1324
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 3: think it is. And I encourage just start reading. Just

1325
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 3: pick up a Bible and start see what happens, See

1326
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 3: what happened. Do it. I bet you won't.

1327
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna leave it there. Thank you Jess for

1328
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 1: coming on I appreciate it.

1329
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 3: Thank you, Beckett, Thank.

1330
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 2: You, Thank you for listening to this episode of The

1331
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 2: Beckett Cook Show. Your support make this content possible. All

1332
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 2: episodes of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.

1333
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his

1334
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:13,879
Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.

1335
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their

1336
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 4: partnership with us.

1337
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you will find

1338
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 4: More faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.