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Speaker 1: He's editor in chief of bright Bart News and a

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Speaker 1: New York Times best selling author, and on this podcast

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Speaker 1: he brings deep research, prescient analysis at world class guests.

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Speaker 1: He's Alex Marlowe and this is the Alex Marlowe Show.

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Speaker 1: All right, we are back. I hope everyone had any

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Speaker 1: great Christmas and New Year. And we relaunched the show.

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Speaker 1: And I mentioned this before we went on break with

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Speaker 1: those of you who might be new new format to

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Speaker 1: the marlow Show. We're doing five live radio shows a week.

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Speaker 1: Those will air on all the Salem stations at noon

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Speaker 1: Eastern time, nine am Pacific, and then that's going to

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Speaker 1: be also played primetime on the Salem News Channel those

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Speaker 1: of you who like to stream the shows. And then

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have three additional podcasts only podcasts. Those shows,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing longer form interviews. I'll probably

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Speaker 1: be doing a little more frivolous, silly personal content, that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff, but also cleansing the palette, getting through

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Speaker 1: some of the news I did not get to in

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Speaker 1: one hour of radio because one hour radio goes by

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Speaker 1: super super fast. And today we've got a show with

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Speaker 1: Francis Martel, who's my World editor at bright Bart News,

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Speaker 1: and she's as knowledgeable as any American on the issue

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Speaker 1: of Venezuela. She's been leading our coverage of it, which

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Speaker 1: has been best in class at Breitbart for the last decade.

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Speaker 1: Caleb Cruso, one of our reporters, is Venezuela based a.

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Speaker 1: He's been a real asset for us. So he got out,

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Speaker 1: he freed himself and he's in He's in Europe currently.

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Speaker 1: But we do have a For many years we had

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Speaker 1: sort of a Caracas bureau right Bart Caracas. So we

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Speaker 1: never had the bright Bart Caracas listed on the on

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Speaker 1: the website, but we should have. It probably would have

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Speaker 1: been smart. So we have that for you today. It's

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Speaker 1: a super good show. You're gonna learn a lot. She's

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Speaker 1: incredible those of you who are unfamiliar with her. But

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Speaker 1: before we get into it, so we are at the

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Speaker 1: very end of our campaign with Preborn, You guys know

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Speaker 1: how hard I was writing for Preborn. And just because

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Speaker 1: all those coming on, we're in the new year, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean babies don't need saving, and you can save

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Speaker 1: them in the brand new year, brand new opportunities to

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Speaker 1: change the world for the better. It's easier than you

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Speaker 1: might think you can save babies with providing ultrasounds from

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Speaker 1: together during the Sanctity of Human Life Month, We're going

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Speaker 1: to save babies to show the world that not only

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Speaker 1: do we believe life is precious, but we're going to

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Speaker 1: do something about it. Your gift to Preborn will give

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Speaker 1: a girl the truth about what's happening in her body

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Speaker 1: so that she can make the right choice. She's gonna

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Speaker 1: get to listen to the baby's heart, it's going to

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Speaker 1: get to see the baby in the ultrasound monitor, and

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Speaker 1: this saves lives. Twenty eight dollars a month will save

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Speaker 1: a baby all year long. Great New Year's resolution for

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Speaker 1: those of you thinking of doing some charity, just lock

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Speaker 1: it in right now. Twenty eight bucks a month. Great

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Speaker 1: way to start the new year. A fifteen thousand dollars gift,

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Speaker 1: which one of you did give on my behalf last year,

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Speaker 1: will provide a complete ultrasound machine that will save thousands

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Speaker 1: of babies for years and years to come. It's also

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Speaker 1: going to save moms from a lifetime of pain and

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Speaker 1: regret and dads as well. So start the year right

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Speaker 1: by being a hero with Preborn. Eight three three eight

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Speaker 1: five zero two two two nine. That's a three three

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Speaker 1: eight five zero two two two nine. Go to Preborn

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Marlowe. You go to alexmarlow dot com

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Speaker 1: click the Preborn beanner. I will tell you, guys, we

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Speaker 1: need a goal with Preborn, who I recruited on the show.

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Speaker 1: I wanted Preborn to be on my show. I really

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Speaker 1: admire what they do. And we're at something like ninety

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Speaker 1: five percent of the way the goal. We've got to

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Speaker 1: get to this goal because I want them to stick

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Speaker 1: around and stay with me all year. So we made

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Speaker 1: a commitment to them and we're almost there. So let's

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Speaker 1: do it. If you're on the fence, go today Preborn

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Speaker 1: dot com slash marlow Let's bring in Francis Martel. All Right,

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Speaker 1: first podcast guest in a couple of weeks. In first

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Speaker 1: podcast guests of the New Year's Francis Martel, my world

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Speaker 1: editor at Brightbart News, and Francis, I feel very blessed

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Speaker 1: that you're on my staff because if there's anyone who

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Speaker 1: knows what's going on in Venezuela, it's you. But first

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Speaker 1: of all, let me ask how was your Christmas?

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Speaker 2: My Christmas was lovely. It was very peaceful, I'm glad

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Speaker 2: it was because it got super exciting right off the

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Speaker 2: get go after New Years, so I had the energy

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Speaker 2: built up, but you know, unwrapping presence with the kids

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Speaker 2: eating too many cookies. Now we're just trying to get

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Speaker 2: back on the normal food and school schedule.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, isn't that something. It's like, does anyone what

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Speaker 1: kind of discipline you have to have to make it

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Speaker 1: to the first Monday of the new year and the

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Speaker 1: not to be totally disgusted with yourself as like who.

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Speaker 2: Is I'm thenger. I spend like twenty minutes trying to

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Speaker 2: like pound on makeup too, because I have the Latin problem,

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Speaker 2: where like in January my skin color is totally different

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Speaker 2: than it was in July. So like I'm picking up

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Speaker 2: the makeup for the podcast and stuff, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm a totally different color. I'm probably thirty pounds heavier

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Speaker 2: than two weeks ago. Like this this is rough the.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely get this too because I golf as

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Speaker 1: my hobby, and obviously there's a lot more golf played

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Speaker 1: in the summer because not just because it's it's weather's better,

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Speaker 1: but also because it gets darker later, it gives you

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Speaker 1: more options, and then I can definitely if you did

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Speaker 1: a time lapse photo of me every podcast over the year,

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna be a little a little more all

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Speaker 1: of you in August than I am in January. I

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Speaker 1: think that's pretty clear on that, but hopefully the same weight.

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Speaker 1: It's the but it's probably not true. Also, I think biologically.

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Speaker 2: We try we do best. We have a very sedentary

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Speaker 2: career also, so.

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Speaker 1: We really do.

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Speaker 2: We got to cut the blocks out for working out,

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Speaker 2: and make sure you run up and down the stairs,

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Speaker 2: chasing the kids a few times a day, and and

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Speaker 2: just do the best you can to keep it in there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I always wonder with the kids whether or not that's

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Speaker 1: net positive or net negative for wasteline, because it's really

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Speaker 1: hard not to eat any of the kids food, and

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Speaker 1: that's number one. But you are moving a lot around

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Speaker 1: the kids. But also I have no mental energy to

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Speaker 1: be disciplined with the consumption. And that's the thing where

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Speaker 1: you really get spacey, because you just feel like that

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Speaker 1: it's I'm not having any other fun today. Of course

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Speaker 1: I'm having the double che and then slam a few

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Speaker 1: of those a week, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: You're like, well, I'm not now, I'm off my game.

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Speaker 1: But that's what January is for. We focused and I

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Speaker 1: can't believe the sort of news weekend we had the

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Speaker 1: first weekend of the year. It was a content creator's dream,

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Speaker 1: which is us what we do, and something that is

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Speaker 1: You're a deep expert in this. You the best reporting

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Speaker 1: around at Bright Part for us on this, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to go through history, what happened in what

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Speaker 1: you think could happen next, because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: I think unanswered pieces of the puzzle that some of

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Speaker 1: it we want to answers yamp but we will eventually,

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Speaker 1: But I just want to start with your take on

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Speaker 1: the raid itself. Do you think this was a long

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Speaker 1: time coming? Did you anticipate that this was happening? Because

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Speaker 1: I didn't think we would do a regime change war

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know it was an option where we

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Speaker 1: could just do regime change in three hours and just leave. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of new.

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Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, we didn't change the regime. We

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Speaker 2: changed the government, right, we got the regime, yes, sure,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean I didn't expect this at all.

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Speaker 2: I am so used to my default being that the

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Speaker 2: White House never cares about Latin America, that it's second

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Speaker 2: to last importance. You know, last importance is Africa, and

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Speaker 2: then second to last importance is Latin America. And I

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Speaker 2: spent all of November and December covering the White House's

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Speaker 2: response to persecution in Nigeria, and now the big news

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Speaker 2: cycle is Venezuela, which is, at least in my lifetime,

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Speaker 2: I feel unprecedented in the way that an American president

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Speaker 2: would act, the way the priorities are skewed, and the

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Speaker 2: complete lack of caring about what France and Germany think,

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Speaker 2: or you know, the EU. You know what are the

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Speaker 2: Swiss saying? None of that, which is the defining characteristic

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Speaker 2: of any democratic presiden Seria.

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Speaker 1: It's so big. I've made a very similar point on

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Speaker 1: radio about how you look at how how's Iran reacting,

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Speaker 1: How's China reacting, how's the American left reacting? And when

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Speaker 1: they're all, this is horrible, it's sort of a sign that, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should be able minded this thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's incredible. I saw something online the other day.

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Speaker 2: You know, I spent a lot of this weekend just

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Speaker 2: sort of watching and I'll admit crying with a lot

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Speaker 2: of the videos of Venezuelans celebrating because it's it's such

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Speaker 2: a long time coming in As a Cuban, I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of kinship with them, not to mention that

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Speaker 2: a lot of Venezuelans, unprompted, had Cuban flags and were like,

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Speaker 2: you guys are next, you know, like cheering for us,

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Speaker 2: which is so deeply appreciated. But then I was scrolling

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Speaker 2: through social media seeing all that, and then I see

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Speaker 2: a picture of like five boomers in thick fur coats,

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Speaker 2: not fur coats, but you know, like the furry hat coats,

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Speaker 2: and it said Vermont says no to war with Venezuela

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Speaker 2: and has like who cares, you know. And the best

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Speaker 2: thing is the White House said the same thing. They

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Speaker 2: have no interest in. These leftist white groups have a

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Speaker 2: certain perspective about socialism. Socialism is you know, I hate

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Speaker 2: to use this like cliche term, but it's a luxury

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Speaker 2: ideology that they can adopt because they live comfort and

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Speaker 2: you know, Vermont says no. Just this big headline really

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Speaker 2: summed it up for me, Like, you know, the thousands

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Speaker 2: of Venezuelans all over the world dancing and crying and

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Speaker 2: celebrating and then just Vermont says no with like five

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Speaker 2: boomers in thick coats.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the jubilation of the Venezuelans is really important

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Speaker 1: and I probably should have grabs my adio of this,

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Speaker 1: but there's the breaks the that was really striking, and

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Speaker 1: I found it also pretty fascinating how it didn't seem

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Speaker 1: like anyone on the lap got the memo on this.

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Speaker 1: They didn't be like, hey, they're celebrating, like like, are

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Speaker 1: we sure we want to go all in on this

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Speaker 1: is horrible? And it's they're really happy. It looks like

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Speaker 1: you've been contextualized and you did a great piece for

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Speaker 1: us or brighte Board highlighting some of your favorites. What

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Speaker 1: was the vibe in Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: In Venezuela itself silent, jubilation and fear, you know, the collectivos,

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Speaker 2: the regime is still there, right, And I want to

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Speaker 2: keep emphasizing that it is tremendously thrilling to see maludu

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Speaker 2: and handcuffs for a lot of Venezuelans because and I

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Speaker 2: don't want to speak on their behalf, but this is

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Speaker 2: reflecting what I've seen Venezuela and say they've been in handcuffs,

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Speaker 2: they've been tortured, they've been in prison for having political

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Speaker 2: ideas that are against the Communists, and they get to

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Speaker 2: see Maludo in chains, in handcuffs, and he's going to

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Speaker 2: go through a justice process. He's going to get due process.

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Speaker 2: He's going to get day in court. That doesn't happen

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Speaker 2: a lot with dictators. They're very a handful of cases

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Speaker 2: where you can grab a dictator alive and well and

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Speaker 2: give him a true day in court where you keep

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Speaker 2: your dignity. You know, he wasn't murdered. He wasn't he

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Speaker 2: didn't die of natural causes like Fidel Castro. He is

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Speaker 2: actually going to be treated like any other criminal. And

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Speaker 2: that is tremendously meaningful to the Venezuelan people, I think,

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Speaker 2: and that's why there's so much jubilation. And I spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of this weekend too, thinking about the contrast

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Speaker 2: between this and the day that Fidel died and the

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Speaker 2: day that Fidel died. There were parties too, you know,

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Speaker 2: Miami was hopping, people were celebrating, People made aches with

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Speaker 2: Fidel Castro like in Flames in Hell. But there was

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Speaker 2: always in the back of our minds this doesn't change anything.

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Speaker 2: The regime isn't going to change, and he died a millionaire,

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Speaker 2: multimillionaire in peace of natural causes. In this case, we

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Speaker 2: get a young Maluro who is going to be treated

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Speaker 2: like the criminal that he is, and we get to

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Speaker 2: see justice happen. And I'm so happy for Venezuelans that

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Speaker 2: they can actually see this happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And so give us

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Speaker 1: some of the history from the Bolivarian Revolution. Hugo Chavez,

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Speaker 1: big cult of personality forms and basically takes over the country,

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Speaker 1: rewrites the rule of law. Some of this context is

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Speaker 1: really important because this was the end of this is

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Speaker 1: the crowd. The crowd that wasn't happy over the weekend

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Speaker 1: was the pro democracy crowd. Really important to note that

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Speaker 1: it's been democracy there for a while, particularly since twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: But walk us through a little bit of the history

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Speaker 1: of Francis absolutely so.

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Speaker 2: Venezuela was the most prosperous country in Latin America for

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Speaker 2: decades after the collapse of Cuba. Really Cuba was the

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Speaker 2: richest country, and then in nineteen fifty nine there was

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Speaker 2: a coup. Unlike Cuba, where you know, we call it

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Speaker 2: the revolution, but Fidel Castro stage de coup. He overthrew

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Speaker 2: the democratically elected leader Uba Chavez was elected. And I

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Speaker 2: think what happened in that history is that they were

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Speaker 2: so wealthy, they had so much oil, They were comfortable

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Speaker 2: and prosperous, and someone came in offering empty promises and

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Speaker 2: sounding good and catering to sort of the patriotic ego

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Speaker 2: of the Venezuelan people, which is a very well earned ego.

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Speaker 2: You know, they fought the Spanish valiantly, they liberated themselves

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Speaker 2: and they established a very prosperous republic. But Chavez used that,

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Speaker 2: manipulated that psychologically to obtain support, particularly from the poorest Venezuelans,

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Speaker 2: who would look and say, you know, Caracas is super wealthy,

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Speaker 2: the oil families are super wealthy, and I'm you know,

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Speaker 2: somewhere deep in the Amazon impoverished. Why don't I get

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Speaker 2: a cut of that pie? And those people voted Chavas

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Speaker 2: into power. Chaves comes in expropriates all the oil companies,

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Speaker 2: which means he took a tremendous amount of American assets.

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Speaker 2: Because it was American oil companies that helped the Venezuelans

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Speaker 2: get rich. They didn't just take the wealth and leads.

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Speaker 2: They made the country rich while enriching themselves. So he

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Speaker 2: takes that, he takes all of the farmland, he takes

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Speaker 2: all of the petrochemical plants, all of the refineries, and

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Speaker 2: he either kills or expels all of the engineers and

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Speaker 2: the experts who actually know how to run these institutions.

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Speaker 2: So then what happens. The oil supply starts going down

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Speaker 2: because the people running it are chavez Is cronies who

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Speaker 2: have no idea what they're doing. And this happens in

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Speaker 2: every socialist regime. This happened in Zimbabwe, it happened in Cuba.

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Speaker 2: With the Cuba not producing sugar is basically the same

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Speaker 2: as Venezuela not producing oil, and Chavs managed to that.

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Speaker 2: But in twenty four thirteen when Chaves was when he died,

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Speaker 2: the country was not yet in total collapse because Chavez

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Speaker 2: was adept at manipulating Cuba, Iran, and China and Russia

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Speaker 2: in financing his regime, so he kept the country just

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Speaker 2: rich enough that there wasn't an open revolt. Maluo comes in.

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Speaker 2: Maludo's background is he's a former bus driver who was

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Speaker 2: elevated to foreign under Chavez and his foreign minister operation

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Speaker 2: were meeting with Mashar Lssad making sure that haz Bala

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Speaker 2: finds a foothold in the Venezuelan regime. That was his job.

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Speaker 2: So he went from bus driver to that to present

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Speaker 2: and he won a presidential election I believe in twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen or fifteen against opposition character Enrique Caprilez, who is

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Speaker 2: the second most hated man in Venezuela because he's a

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Speaker 2: completely useless guy. And so he won a free and

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Speaker 2: fair election, but he failed to maintain the amount of

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Speaker 2: survival revenue to keep the country flow. And that's when

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Speaker 2: you get twenty fourteen, fifteen sixteen, the reports of you know,

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Speaker 2: people are eating garbage, people are going into the zoo

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Speaker 2: and killing animals, eating animals. Then you see Maludo start

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Speaker 2: sending the tanks in the streets, literally tanks like Tianeman

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Speaker 2: square footage that you see from Caracas from that time period.

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Speaker 2: He massacred children, children from you know, as young as fourteen,

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Speaker 2: children who might have been near a protest and possibly

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Speaker 2: not even protesting. There was a case of a boy

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Speaker 2: named kuiver Roa who was killed, who was fourteen, and

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Speaker 2: he yelled something like stop the repression or something, and

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Speaker 2: the cops just sham and he was killed. There's Genesis Carmona,

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Speaker 2: who was a beauty queen who was killed at a

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Speaker 2: protest twenty two years old. A lot of Venezuelans were murdered,

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Speaker 2: and that subdued the protests because it was simply too

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Speaker 2: many people were killed and too many people were tortured.

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Speaker 2: And from there to you know, I'm stopping at twenty

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Speaker 2: seventeen now, so about the next decade, what you have

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Speaker 2: is the protests do die down, but it's a combination

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Speaker 2: of too many people killed and the opposition being an

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Speaker 2: absolute disaster. The opposition was run by members of the

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Speaker 2: Socialist International le Bodo Lopez and Ri Ramos ayup the

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Speaker 2: Capriles that I mentioned before, and they insisted on repeatedly

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Speaker 2: holding elections, but they let Maludo run the elections. So

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Speaker 2: Malulo banned Maria Machallo and anybody who was actually popular,

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Speaker 2: and he let five other communists run against him, and

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Speaker 2: he won every election. And that's what happened for another

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Speaker 2: ten years and ten years eight million people leaving the country. Later,

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Speaker 2: we get to this weekend. Now, we don't know what's

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Speaker 2: gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for checking out the new show format, but we've

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the raid, but before we do,

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Speaker 1: give me a context of the framing. The way we

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Speaker 1: frame Maduro in our writing is that he's really a

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Speaker 1: narco terrorist and he's essentially the leader of a giant

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Speaker 1: cartel that is controlled by the Venezuela military, and he's

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Speaker 1: making money off of drugs in particular and other illicit activities.

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Speaker 1: How has he been able to maintain power? And how

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Speaker 1: literal are we being when we say that stuff, that

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Speaker 1: he's essentially just a narco drug kingpin.

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Speaker 2: Pretty literal. The only caveat I would add is that

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Speaker 2: the Cartel of the Suns, which is the cartel that

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Speaker 2: he runs. It began to be operational and profitable for

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Speaker 2: many years before he became actively involved in it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so the one that you know, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: you had this guy jos Dalo Caveo, who is the

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Speaker 2: leader of the Socialist Party of Venezuela. He was really

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Speaker 2: the kingpin. Marco Rubio called him the Pablo Escobar of Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: And he's the guy who really organized the military. And

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Speaker 2: what they did was they took the soldiers and all

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Speaker 2: of the military infrastructure and they used that to traffic cocaine,

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Speaker 2: which was produced in Colombia by groups like the FARK,

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Speaker 2: which is another communist t organization. The eln SO Venezuela

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Speaker 2: doesn't produce cocaine, but they use their military to ship

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Speaker 2: the cocaine. And increasingly, as Josale became sort of more

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Speaker 2: of a threat to Maluro, as Maludu got more paranoid,

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Speaker 2: he became more involved in the drug operations because he

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Speaker 2: knew that that was the only revenue coming in. The

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Speaker 2: oil was not making money. The oil was being shipped

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Speaker 2: for free to Cuba, to China, to allies in the

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Speaker 2: Caribbean in order to buy them off so that when

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Speaker 2: the UN comes knocking and says, hey, you killed a

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Speaker 2: bunch of children, all those other countries show up at

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Speaker 2: the General Assembly and they say, we're not voting on this,

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Speaker 2: we're not discussing this, or the Human Rights Council that

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Speaker 2: also did nothing against these abuses because they were all

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Speaker 2: getting free oil. So he is involved in the leadership

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Speaker 2: as the commander in chief of the Venezuelan military, which

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Speaker 2: is completely synonymous with the Cartel of the Suns. He

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Speaker 2: is a drug kingpin, but there's so much more that

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Speaker 2: beyond that. You know, he's also the head of the

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Speaker 2: largest torture center in Latin America. There's so many more

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Speaker 2: crimes that it feels kind of small to say he's

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Speaker 2: just on Arco terrorist.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So it's really worse, Like that's the caveat is

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Speaker 1: that it's worse. And so I was reading from some

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Speaker 1: of Caleb Crusoe's reporting on the radio show about how

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Speaker 1: he under his watch, it just really became the worst

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Speaker 1: version of a socialist dystopia that you would read about.

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Speaker 1: But again, the people who are shedding crocodile tears this

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Speaker 1: weekend are all the people who claim to be the

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Speaker 1: stewards of democracy and all that. I find it to

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Speaker 1: be very stark that it feels like it was just

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Speaker 1: was it just rank and competence that no one had

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Speaker 1: deposed him before. It's what do you think changed over

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Venezuelans themselves did their absolute best to get

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Speaker 2: him out of there. But the you know, at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, Chavez confiscated all the guns. If

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Speaker 2: you don't have guns, you can't defend yourself. So it's

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Speaker 2: not the Venezuelan's fault that he wasn't kicked out until now.

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Speaker 2: The Democrats, the Obama and the Biden administrations would never

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Speaker 2: do something like what Trump did because they believe that

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Speaker 2: the right way to approach diplomacy is to hold meetings

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Speaker 2: and task forces and discussions indefinitely forever, and that if

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Speaker 2: you have a conversation, you win. It doesn't the reality

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Speaker 2: on the ground doesn't matter. If Anthony Blincoln can get

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Speaker 2: you into a high level talk, then we win. That's it.

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Speaker 2: That's the goal, and that's what they're taught at the universities.

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Speaker 2: That's what you know. You go to the Kennedy School

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Speaker 2: at Harvard, that's what you learn and that's how the

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Speaker 2: Democrats operate. The Republicans, the problem that they had before

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Speaker 2: Trump is their complete disdain for Latin America. George B.

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Speaker 2: Bush didn't care about anything that was happening in Latin America.

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Speaker 2: Reagan could barely, you know, care, like he did some

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Speaker 2: contra stuff that was mildly controversial, but he sure wasn't

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Speaker 2: a dominant personality in Latin America. And I apologize to

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Speaker 2: all the Cuban aoilos who have pictures of Reagan over

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Speaker 2: their sinks, but it's true, they just didn't care. The

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Speaker 2: Republican administrations were focused on Israel and the Middle East,

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Speaker 2: and to a lesser extent, maybe combating Russia, but Latin

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Speaker 2: America just wasn't on their radar.

430
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is really new. And this is a

431
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: point that I made on the radio show as well

432
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: that I think you can elaborate on. Is it Why

433
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: was Latin America such an afterthought for us? Because it

434
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: is our hemisphere. It is proposed as legit national security

435
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: concerns way more than the Middle East per se. Not

436
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: to say we want around developing nukes, but it's the

437
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: it's just way more imperative that we make sure that

438
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 1: Venezuela is under I mean that Latin America is at

439
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: least reasonably cooperative with our vision for the world, then

440
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: for grew with us on everything, but that it does

441
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: a hotbed for terrorism, for narcotics, trafficking, for human smuggling.

442
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: This has been a huge humanitarian issue as well. Here

443
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: it's not doesn't help our security and yet just third, fourth, fifth, sixth,

444
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: eighth tier type issue for most administrations. What changed?

445
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: I think it's a cultural thing in part. I think

446
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: for many decades, the American elites in foreign policy have

447
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: just considered Latin America kind of a frivolous place and

448
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: unfixable place, especially in the sixties, seventies and eighties, where

449
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: you had these string of military coups, some of which

450
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: were very necessary. You know what, and I'm not going

451
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: to defend the human rights abuses of Pinal Chair or anything,

452
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 2: but if you look at how sabaloay in they had

453
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 2: completely destroyed the justice system in Chile, you know, you

454
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: wonder if there was a possibi possibility of another way out.

455
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 2: There were precedents for why these military coups happened in

456
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: Brazil ex and again, not justifying the human rights abuses.

457
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: Just they happened for a reason, and I think the

458
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 2: US establishment got exasperated with it. They couldn't keep up

459
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: with it, and somehow they have infinite patients for you know,

460
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: endless war in Gaza. But god forbid, there's a coup

461
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: in Brazil, then we you know, we can't be bothered

462
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: with it. And I think that mentality also goes way back,

463
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 2: Like I would go back to Teddy Roosevelt who prioritized

464
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: taking over parts of Mexico and ensuring that Mexico was

465
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: not a formidable superpower rival, right, like that was part

466
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: of his plan, and also making sure that Spain was

467
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 2: not a power in this continent. That's my classic Monroe doctrine. Right.

468
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: But then he goes and he pretends to liberate Cuba,

469
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: which he was. He showed up super late. He didn't

470
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: actually do anything to deliberate Cuba. Just him and his

471
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: three rough riders took a picture and or you know,

472
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 2: took a painting or whatever, and then he chooses not

473
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: to annex Cuba. And that was really to me a

474
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: turning point where the like US foreign policy said, we

475
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: actually don't care about anything to the South anymore. We're

476
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: not taking anything, you know, with this is not a

477
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: territory where we're gonna flex our muscle anymore. We'll go

478
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: and we'll you know, we'll buy Alaska, We'll get well A, Hawaii,

479
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 2: well annex Texas. But that's it. Where nothing to the south.

480
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: We're done with this. We got Florida. We're done. And

481
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: I think that really kind of poisoned the attitude in

482
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: the foreign policy establishment towards the treatment of Latin America.

483
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: All Right, So next, I wan't to talk about China

484
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: because I feel like everything Trump does in terms of

485
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: a foreign policy standpoint is there's always a China implication.

486
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: China was getting illicitly trafficked oil from Venezuela sanctioned oil.

487
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: Give us some of the detail there and why China

488
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: does loom large over all this.

489
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: So the big Venezuela China oil deal, I believe it

490
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: was in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, I don't remember the

491
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 2: exact date. China opened and essentially a five billion dollar

492
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: credit line to Maluu to help him preserve stability. This

493
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: was like peak protest time and he had no money

494
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: to pay that back, and it was alone. China made

495
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: clear that it was a loan, but they got Malulu

496
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 2: to prom is to pay it back in oil, So

497
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: they essentially bought oil and not just bought oil from

498
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: UH from Venezuela, but is also helping Venezuela sale oil

499
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 2: or give away oil to Cuba to help Iran refine

500
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 2: its own oil. Iran's refining oil in Venezuela. So that's

501
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: that's the core deal. Where China's getting its oil from

502
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: is this five billion dollar credit line. But geopolitically, China's

503
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: very deeply invested in the Malua regime's attitudes towards things

504
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: like hamas towards issues like Taiwan. You know, Nicolas Malulu

505
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: gone his TV show and rant about how we need

506
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: to invade Taiwan. And that's the question is why would

507
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: he care. It's because that, you know, he needs the

508
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 2: political support from UH from China to stay afloat. So

509
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: China's deeply involved here. Without Maluru, the Chinese are going

510
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 2: to struggle to maintain the demand for oil in their country.

511
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: And I think part of the reason for doing all this,

512
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: like you said, Trumpo's always a thinking about how things

513
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 2: affect China. If gas prices skyrocket in China, that's going

514
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: to cause some significant political instability. In addition to, you know,

515
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: the economy is completely stagnant in China since COVID. They've

516
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: got serious problems with youth protesters. Every couple of years

517
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: they have to arrest, you know, hundreds of youth and

518
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: disappear them from universities. So having a spike in oil

519
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: prices would be a big problem for Chijinping right now.

520
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is something that is really crucial

521
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: here because Trumps can navigate this. And I want to

522
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: turn tho what happens next, but I want to start

523
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: with the China of at all and the oil of

524
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: it all, because he said China is going to get oil.

525
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: Trump's so clever and that he does something that China

526
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: obviously is not happy about, and then immediately keeps praise

527
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: on xijin Ping and its just great. He just he

528
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: really knows what he's doing in this regard. He said,

529
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: what a great guy she is, and I'm great it

530
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: is to work with China. So he says they're gonna

531
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: be able to get oil, So he wants them to

532
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: be able to get oil. But it's we're gonna know

533
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 1: what's going on, and it's not going to be illicit

534
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: the way it has been, and I think we're going

535
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: to take some of it. It's kind of it's the

536
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: heavy crude that not everyone can refine. I know that

537
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: we have Chevron down there. I spoke to the CEO

538
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: about this briefly off record. I'll let's put this way.

539
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: It's obviously a headache that they have to deal with this,

540
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: but they can do it, and a very few companies

541
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: can be down there, and so I think probably this

542
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: is something that could get easier. I mean, maybe I

543
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: should be buying Chevron's stock right now. I don't know.

544
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: I'm not a financial advisor. No one taking my financial advice.

545
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: But it's the what do we do with the oil?

546
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: Because we got to get some of it, I'm guessing,

547
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: and what is China do.

548
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: Well, We've got to start with rehabilitating the refineries and

549
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: all of the equipment to actually get the oil out

550
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: of the ground. It's a disaster. It's a complete disaster.

551
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: A few years ago, Maludo had to call in Iranian

552
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: engineers because his own people couldn't figure out how to

553
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: deal with the refinery. So Iran brought in their engineers,

554
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: and that's who's running the the oil fields right now

555
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: and the refineries, and those guys are not good either.

556
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: They're incompetent too. There was a massive oil spill last

557
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: year that was caused by the Iranians trying to fix

558
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: the mess. So we're gonna need absolutely best of the best,

559
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: like the most intelligent engineers on the planet to go

560
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: in there and either demolish all those facilities and rebuild

561
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: them or fix them or something. But right now, you know,

562
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: the oil that's there is you know, it's almost more

563
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: trouble than it's worth not to China because China doesn't

564
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: have to deal with you know, these facilities. They just

565
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: get the oil because they bought this credit with this

566
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: credit line. But for anyone trying to refine, you know,

567
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: if anything we gave, we just took a huge headache

568
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: off of Iran's hands. Like they still have their own

569
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: problems and they're gonna lose a lot of money. But

570
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: I imagine there's some Iranian engineer out there being like, oh,

571
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: thank you God, I don't have to I don't fix

572
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: Palto oil refinery anymore. Disaster. So yeah, so that's that's

573
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: gonna be. The first step is getting the smartest people

574
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: in the world, the smartest scientists on this to get

575
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 2: in there. The other big issue is that Venezuelan crude

576
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: is notoriously heavy. It's difficult to refine, it's it's very

577
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: different than some of the lighter CRUs that you would get,

578
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: like from Texas or you know, the Middle East. So

579
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: you got to develop expertise in how to handle that oil,

580
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: and that takes decades, and we did that with the

581
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: Venezuelan government, you know, for like sixty years the last century.

582
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: So it's gonna take a long time to fix. In

583
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: the meantime, I think China's just gonna have to deal

584
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: with either buying more Russian oil, which I know China's

585
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: not thrilled about enriching Putin at any given time, especially

586
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: after Putin stole you know, North Korea from them. But yeah,

587
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: Russian oil Orranian oil, that's what China's gonna have to

588
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: do because this is gonna be a long time to

589
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: fix this.

590
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So what comes next for Venezuela itself? So you're

591
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: saying it's not a regime change. Regime is still there,

592
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: but that's not I don't know that's gonna Why with

593
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: Trump if he's gone to this aff or any of

594
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: this first success. It's the he said We're going to

595
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: control the country for a while, a phrase that I

596
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: won't say always triggered by it because of I never

597
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: take Trump literally, but not my favorite phrase. I don't

598
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: love that idea, but I do like the idea of

599
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: something more positive coming in. What are the realistic options

600
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: and what are the options and I'm thinking Maria Karina

601
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: Machado here that are maybe pie in the sky but

602
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: are probably not realistic. What are the various scenarios that

603
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: could play out.

604
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: So the closest parallel we have to this right now

605
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: is Syria. Right, we had the collapse of the Assada

606
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: regime and then we have the winners of the war

607
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: come in. The difference is Maria Quarina Machello doesn't have

608
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: an Armgihattist organization that can simply like come in and

609
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: be the military of the country. Right, she has no guns,

610
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: So she's not an option until we resolve the problem

611
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: of the Venezuelan military, which is loyal, if not to Maluru,

612
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: at least to the OO and is very clearly terrified

613
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: because every one of those soldiers is involved than drug

614
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: trafficking that they're going to jail to So that's the

615
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: big problem. So right now, what it seems like the

616
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: White House is doing is they had a long conversation

617
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: with Delsi Rodriguez, who's the vice president. She is far

618
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: to the left of Maludu. She is a huge problem,

619
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: but she is in this situation where there are five

620
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: people essentially left in Maludo's inner circle in Venezuela. Delsi,

621
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: her brother, Jorge diozl Caveo, the head of the military, Pallerino,

622
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: the Defense minister, and then there's Tarika Leisami who was

623
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: the Hesbala liaison, who is actually in jail. No one's

624
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: talking about Tarika Asami, but I'm thinking of him because

625
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: he's in jail and if he gets out, he's going

626
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: to play this game of thrones. Right So right now

627
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: the question is are these other four people going to

628
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: support Delsi as the head of Chabismo, And I think

629
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: the answer is going to be a resounding note. Diosala

630
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: Caveo himself tried to take out Malulo several times. He's

631
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: made no you know, he hasn't been shy about one

632
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: to be the dictator. Himself. I think he's the biggest problem,

633
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: and so what we're doing is basically pitting them against

634
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: each other. I think Rubio spoke to Delsi and said, look,

635
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: we will back you as long as you support a

636
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: transition to free and fair elections and you hold a

637
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: real election. And she could either say yes, in which

638
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: case she has to risk getting assassinated by Caleo or

639
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: Padarin or one of the other guys, or she says

640
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: no and she gets yoinged to like Maluro did, because

641
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: she's implicated in a bunch of primes too. So she's

642
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: in a really tough position. And I think we're just

643
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: banking on the weird Chavismo house of cards that each

644
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: of these players is balancing on to kind of destroy itself.

645
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: And then once that happens, if the Venezuelan military collapses,

646
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: if we can get some sort of organized military structure

647
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: that is not loyal to the cartel of the Suns,

648
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: then we can have an election that Maria Cori Machallo

649
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: can run in and win.

650
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: What it is that she had the nickname the Tigress.

651
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: Who Delsi, Yeah, yeah, this would that's a good question.

652
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: There's a there's a famous Peruvian like viral singer who's

653
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: had a lot of surgery named the Tigris, who kind

654
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: of has that weird look that Delsi has. But it's

655
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: it's also because she's you know, she's the bulldog. She's

656
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: the one that Maluro used to really be the face

657
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: of Chavismo internationally when he wanted to show the bad face.

658
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: I remember the most Delci moment that I remember. The

659
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: delsiest instance was one time when Mike Pompeo went to

660
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: the Colombian Venezuela border. He showed up with trucks of

661
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: humanitarian aid. This was peak you know, people eating dogs

662
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: era of Venezuela. He shows up with all this food

663
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: and Delsi goes on TV and she says, the Americans

664
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: are trying to kill you. The humanitarian aid is all

665
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: cancerous materials. If you eat it, you will die. So

666
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: that's Delsi. Delsi came out. Now I'm told starving Venezuelans,

667
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: who were you know, on the Malutle diet, losing like

668
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: twenty pounds involuntarily a year to not eat humanitarian aid

669
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: because the Gringos sent you cancerous materials. So that's what

670
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Delsey is she will say anything, she will do anything

671
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: to support Marxism, and she is a much more aggressive

672
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: face than her brother Hore, who is just as radical,

673
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: but he likes to play good cop and she's the

674
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: bad cop. So here's what.

675
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand is that the this is really

676
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: an extension of the Maduro regime? Is still there? Is

677
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: Trump's hope? Is our hope that there's just a more

678
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: cooperative version of the Maduro regime? Or do we actually

679
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: want to see some sort of a some sort of

680
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: an installation of actual election in democracy, et cetera. Or

681
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: is that just too unrealistic at this point.

682
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: I think it's mostly unrealistic. But of course that's the ideal, right,

683
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: Like the dream world. We would want Delsea Rodriguez to

684
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: organize a true, free and fair election and then to

685
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,959
Speaker 2: have a diaspora return and vote in that election. That's

686
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: the dream, right. I don't think that's gonna happen, simply

687
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: because before any of that can happen, we have to

688
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: resolve which of these Maludo henchmen is actually going to

689
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: be the leader. I don't think anybody else in Maludo's

690
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: inner circle, except for maybe Horhea Rodriguez wants Delcei to

691
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: be president. They want to be president. So I think

692
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: the White House move is to you know, put out

693
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: the ideal situation, step back and then watch the Chummy

694
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: says basically, you know, eat each other.

695
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Amazing, all right, So the last one, and this is

696
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: kind of a fun one. I don't know these reports

697
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: are true, but the reports are that we bombed the

698
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: Hugo Chaves, a shrine that was built to him as

699
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: mausoleum that was built on a hill. It was supposed

700
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: to be a very historic place of myth for the

701
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: Venezuelan people, and he just took it over. We just

702
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: bombed it on the way out for no apparent reason

703
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: other than to be spiteful, which is just kind of

704
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: awesome if true. I mean, what do we know about this?

705
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: So I want to believe. I want to believe, but

706
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: you know, we we don't have It's not like CNN

707
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 2: is on the ground in Venezuela, right, No one's at

708
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: the tomb to show us. There are some drone pictures,

709
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: grainy drone pictures that show some significant damage near the tomb.

710
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: As far as I know, no one has gone into

711
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: check if the corpse was incinerated or not, But it's actually,

712
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, it is it's fun, but it's also a

713
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: good opportunity to talk about how Chavez and Chavismo has

714
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: this spiritual element to it. There's a cult element to it.

715
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: The point of building a shrine to Chavez is that,

716
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about Maludu as the head of

717
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: state of the country, but the true head of state

718
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: is still Chaves. He's the eternal commander of the revolution.

719
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: He is the president. So we if we did bomb it,

720
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: we bombed the actual president of Venezuela. Who's this corpse.

721
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: So and and part of the reason of building that

722
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: shrine is that they actively worshiped Chaves. They rewrote the

723
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: Lord's prayer to say, our Chaves who are in heaven.

724
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: Maludo regularly talked about speaking to birds who held the

725
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,959
Speaker 2: soul of Chavez in their bosoms, and the birds would

726
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: sing out, Chavez is words of wisdom, and that's how

727
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: Ma Lutle governed. That's a real thing that Maludo said.

728
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: There's all sorts of occult practices that are tied to Chavismo,

729
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: like the worship of the Santos Malandros, which is the

730
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 2: worship of dead thugs. They used to make little statues

731
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: of plugs and worship them. And that's a systematic attempt

732
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: to destroy the Catholic tradition of Venezuela, and it, unfortunately,

733
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: I think, in part, succeeded. I think the Venezuela and

734
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: tomb thing is part of it. And I think that's

735
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: why Venezuelans were so excited about that potential news, because

736
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: it showed that America maybe understands the spiritual assault that

737
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: comes with this type of socialism.

738
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is what it is. It's it's spiritual assault,

739
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: and that's where I would hope people be somewhat optimistic.

740
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, if America is going to

741
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: occupy it and engagement regime change, it's going to be

742
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: really tough. It's gonna be tough to sell that one

743
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: to the public. Again. We want to get back on

744
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: domestic issues as much as we can this year if

745
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: we're going to avoid Democrats winning the mid terms, impeachment,

746
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. But it's nice when we're taking out some

747
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: of the bad guys were doing something that China's not

748
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: happy about. We're doing something of the European International Criminal

749
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: court left in the un or is not gonna be

750
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: happy about. I'm willing to see it play out. So

751
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: what is your fantasy? You got to tease it earlier

752
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: at the show that you said you had some tears.

753
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: So you're seeing this as you're optimistic. Here, I'm taking it.

754
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: Oh, tremendously. This is the best foreign policy news I've

755
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: ever had the privilege of covering by far In. I

756
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: got to cover Fiddel dying. But again, Fiddel died happily

757
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: in his sleep, unfortunately.

758
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: At a thousand years old.

759
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly because and again people are gonna say

760
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm crazy, but Cubans believe that Castro sold his soul

761
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: to the Santos, to the Nigerian gods and he got

762
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 2: to live to be, you know, a billion years old

763
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 2: because he was kinds ofly engaging in witchcraft. So it's

764
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: all part of that. But yes, some tremendous no.

765
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: But but hold on, hold on it. Give me some

766
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: more about the witchcraft, because everyone's into witchcraft. I mean,

767
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: it just feels like that. People don't. People think it's

768
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: some sort of a joke. But this is all a show.

769
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: Many of these guys are into witchcraft.

770
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's not a joke at all. In Cuba,

771
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: Santaria which is you know, you could call it Lukumi whatever,

772
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: it's Nigerian pagan Yoruba religion. And it survived because the

773
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: Nigerian slaves that were brought in would rename all of

774
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: the gods with the names of the saints. So they

775
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 2: would worship Chango, the god of Thunder, and they would say, oh,

776
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: I'm praying for the intercession of Saint Barbara, and they

777
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: would have a statue of Saint Barbara, but they would

778
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: put the sacrifices for Chango at the foot of the

779
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 2: statue of Saint Barbara. So they managed to have this

780
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: ancient pagan religion survive in Cuba, and Fidel Castro very

781
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: quickly recognized that this religion had a very strong potential

782
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: to disrupt the Catholic tradition of Cuba, which was always

783
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 2: very strong. So he destroyed the church. He executed all

784
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: all manner of priests and guns, he shut down the

785
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: Catholic schools, and he emboldened the Nigerian Yoruba worship. And

786
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: if you look at videos and photos of Fidel, he

787
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: always had these beaded bracelets on and those bracelets are

788
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 2: used to summon the Nigerian gods and that that was

789
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: a big part of that that regime, and it still

790
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: is like vol Castro is still part of that too,

791
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: which makes it extra frustrating when you know Pope Francis

792
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 2: tries to be friends with Robald Castro because you're you know,

793
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: you're befriending an atheist pagan, if that's even possible to be.

794
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think that being

795
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: a pagan and atheist, I think they do contradict. But

796
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised a confused people would try to find

797
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: some sort of common ground. Francis has been great, We'll

798
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: do this is this is inevitably resurfaced. But congrats on

799
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: the great news. Thank you for bringing all that detail

800
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: that you can only find a bright bart News. I

801
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: appreciate you very much. And that'll be today's show. Thanks

802
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: to everyone on my team. We got a big team now,

803
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: Greg Eben, producer, Misty and John Cassio pulls clips for us.

804
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: So many people were doing hard work on behalf of

805
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: the Marlow Show now and glad to be live on

806
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: the radio. Remember if you're just getting the podcast, I'm

807
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: live in the Salem stations now, so you should check

808
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 1: that out and make sure to listen in a noon

809
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: to one weekdays, five days a week now. So we're

810
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: gonna have a live show for you. It'll come up

811
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: on the podcast feed too. But the magic of live

812
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: radio is really fun, really fun to new stuff live.

813
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: Thanks fans for being here with me today and I'll

814
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: talk to you soon as well as the rest of

815
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: you in the audience.