1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio game for Jesus and get sobriety thrown in 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: and for sobriety. You may get it, and millions of 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: people in the world have. But what I've come to 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: find is that as a Christian, I am called to 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: let you the world know that I truly believe the 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: most flourishing, fulfilled life now and an eternity is a 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: life with Jesus. So why do we turn that off 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: when it comes to sobriety. Hello, Hello, and welcome to 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 1: the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: I am your host, John Seidel. 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: That is how I opened up every episode of my podcast, 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: and so I am opening up that way. But you'll 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: notice that it sounds maybe a little different, or what 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing right now is a little different, and that 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: is because this episode is a little different. If you're 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: listen in Spotify or Apple or even at Life Audio, 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: you'll notice that the title of this episode includes the 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: words bonus episode. And that's because that's what this is. 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I've never done this before, I'm trying it out. I 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: think it's neat and what you are about to hear 21 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: is actually an interview that I did with my friend 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: Christy Osborne where she is interviewing me, and it was 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: just it was such a great conversation and we are 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: so aligned when it comes to gospel centered recovery and 25 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: putting Jesus at the center, that I thought it would 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: be a neat opportunity for you to get to know 27 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: Christy a little bit more and then hear me talk 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: about things in just a different setting, in different context. 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: So what you are about to hear is Christy interviewing 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: me and I share some of my story, and I 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: just I hope you enjoy it. 32 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: Now. 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: One thing, if you are a man that listens to 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: this podcast, you will hear in Christie's introduction coming up 35 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: in just a second, that she generally talks to women. 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: And so that's true. But yet I don't want you 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: to turn this off because there is still some great 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: stuff and I am not a woman, and so I 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: think that you can still glean some great things. But 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: generally Christy is geared more towards women, and as as 41 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: I kind of joke from my time especially with like 42 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: Kirk Cameron, I'm used to talking to middle aged women, 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: so it really fits. One other thing before we jump 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: right in here is you'll hear Christy talk about the 45 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Aligned conference that's coming up in September. You can go 46 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: to Alignedconference dot org. Christy will be speaking, a whole 47 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: host of my other friends in this space will be speaking, 48 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: and I will be speaking. She kind of jokes that 49 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm the token man at this conference. It's geared towards women. Sorry, guys, 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: but just know that I'm working on something for you. 51 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: But if you are a woman and you would like 52 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: to come to the beautiful eastern shores of Lake Michigan 53 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: in September, which is a great time to come, you 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: can join me, Christy, Sherry Hoppin, and Eric Anderson, among others, 55 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: and I would love to meet you. I've already had 56 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: so many women reach out and say I can't wait 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: to see you at the Aligned conference, and I think 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: it's going to be an incredible time. So go to 59 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: align conference dot org and you can sign up there. 60 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: Hope you enjoy this bonus episode. Let me know what 61 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: you think. Here we go, Me and Christy. 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: Welcome to Love Live Sober. I'm your host and your coach, 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: Christy Osborne. This podcast is for the woman who loves 64 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 3: Jesus or is longing to reconnect with him. And who 65 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: knows deep down that alcohol is no longer serving her. 66 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: Here we talk. 67 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: Honestly, with grace and truth about how stepping away from 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: alcohol opens the door to the love, joy, peace, and 69 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 3: connection you've been searching for. Because, Babe, those things were 70 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: never meant to be found in a bottle of wine. 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: They're found in Jesus. Through scripture, coaching and neuroscience, I'll 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: help you make sense of your habits, your nervous system, 73 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: and what you're really craving so that freedom feels not 74 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 3: only possible, but sustainable. 75 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: You don't have to do this alone, Babe, let's dive in. 76 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 3: Hello, friends, welcome to this week's episode of Love Life Sober. 77 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 3: I am so glad that you are here. Members of 78 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: our Love Life Sober community are very familiar already with 79 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: our guest today, John Seidel, my friend who gave an 80 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: incredible masterclass a few months ago all on the power 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: of radical vulnerability. 82 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: It is in the. 83 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: Replay section of the community if you haven't had a 84 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: chance to listen to it yet, I definitely would bookmark 85 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: that masterclass and go back and listen to it because 86 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 3: it was so powerful and I had such great feedback 87 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 3: from it. If you don't know John. He is the 88 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: author of Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. He also is 89 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: the founder of Veritas Recovery and he writes an incredible 90 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 3: substack which you can find linked. 91 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: On my substack. 92 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: He is also going to be one of our speakers 93 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 3: at the Aligned conference coming up in September, which we 94 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 3: are so excited for. There's already so many of you 95 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 3: gals that have book tickets and it's just going to 96 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 3: be a really, really incredible time. So John is our 97 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: token male guest for the three day conference. So this 98 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: conversation is going to give you a chance to get 99 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: to know John a little bit more. Key and I 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: both agree that the conversations around sobriety and recovery are 101 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: actually not about alcohol at all. They are ultimately about Jesus. 102 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about language like alcoholic, sober and 103 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 3: recovery and how that language can define a struggle for 104 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: us without becoming our identity. You also talk about why 105 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: the goal is about white knuckling your way into an 106 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: alcohol free life, but seeking Jesus. John is going to 107 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: tell his story, including his journey to sobriety. So if 108 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: you don't have his book, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. 109 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 3: Go get it, I'll link it in the show notes 110 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: and come hang out with us at Aligned in September. 111 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: We are going to have so much fun at the 112 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: first ever Women's Christian Sobriety Conference. I can't wait. Okay, 113 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: here is this week's episode onun. 114 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Love Life Silver Podcast. It's a very 115 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: full circle moment that I get to say that to you. 116 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: By the way, It's funny because you and I have 117 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: become really good friends and so I think we talked 118 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: for twenty minutes before we even hit record, and we're like, hey, 119 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: we should probably just like hit record and start doing 120 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: this because Christy, you have become someone who has supported me. 121 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: And what is I think so great is we have 122 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: found a common goal. And what you and I have 123 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: discovered is that in this line of work, which that 124 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: sounds weird, but like when we're talking about sobriety, when 125 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about recovery, is that what you and I 126 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: are all about is actually not what a lot of 127 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: other people are about me. Yeah, and a lot of 128 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: people in this space are about sobriety, and you and 129 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: I are not about sobriety and so it has been 130 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: so encouraging to get to know you in your work 131 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and support your work and send women to you and uh, 132 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: and so I'm excited to be here. 133 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 134 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: And I was thinking about that too before we started 135 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: talking about all the things. Is that I don't really 136 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: know anybody else who talks about this in the same 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: way as you and I do of that, And that's 138 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: really what I want to drill down on and call 139 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: this episode is like, this is actually not about sobriety, 140 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: which is so upside down. 141 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, And we have and we have other 142 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: friends in this space and they're doing great work. 143 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: Oh yes, no, Shade, and they've all been on this 144 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: podcast already. 145 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know they're value proposition is not just 146 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: for Christians, and that's great, and we need people, we 147 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: need those people to be reached. But you and I 148 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: are taking a very distinctly what I will say, Jesus 149 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: first approach, and that's what the Lord has called us 150 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: to do. 151 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 152 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: Can we stop for a second and just talk about 153 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: the words, like all these words, because I feel like 154 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: I get those questions a lot. I've had it about 155 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: your book and I've had it about my book, like 156 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 3: why do you use the word alcoholic? Why do I 157 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: use the word sober? Why do we sometimes use the 158 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: word recovery. So let's talk about all that for a second, 159 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: because that's actually something that someone asked me. You're going 160 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 3: to be doing a masterclass for us tomorrow, sorry to 161 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: those gals that are listening, because it's since past. However, 162 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 3: I record all of our master classes in the Love 163 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: Life Sober community, and so you can rewatch John's incredible 164 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: masterclass which we're recording tomorrow. But that is one of 165 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 3: the questions that I got yesterday, I think on a 166 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: coaching call, was but like alcoholic, why does he use that? 167 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you don't? And why you guys such good 168 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: friends love that question? Okay, So I'll break it down 169 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 4: in two ways. The first way is this, I use 170 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 4: it as a descriptor not an identity statement, and I'm 171 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 4: not just trying to parse words there when I say 172 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 4: the word alcoholic. The first way that I'm using it 173 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 4: is as a description of what and how my body 174 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 4: and physiological idea, not. 175 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 2: As a disease. Right. 176 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: I don't subscribe to the idea of addiction as disease model, 177 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: which is a whole branch of debate. What I have 178 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: come to find out is that for me, the only 179 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: drink I can say no to is the first one. 180 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: And so like when I start drinking, something flips and 181 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: I can't stop. Now, it's not like an out of 182 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: body experience. 183 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 2: Right. 184 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: My point is, and this is where this is where 185 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: the faith aspect comes in. The point is that we 186 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: are all born with certain sins, sin proclivities. 187 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: Right. 188 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: This person has a desire for X. I have a 189 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: desire for why, and my sin proclivities make it such 190 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: that the brokenness that entered the world, that entered my 191 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: soul when I was born, makes it so that when 192 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: I start drinking alcohol, I just don't have a governor switch. 193 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: So it's a physiological descriptor to start with again, not 194 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: an identity statement, right. And in fact, I write in 195 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: my book that one of the reasons I didn't do 196 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: AA is because the way that I have seen it 197 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: done is that in AA in twelve step programs, it 198 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: becomes an identity statement. Now, but John, you have alcoholic 199 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: in the title of your book. Yes, Again, the first 200 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: explanation is because I'm using it as a descriptor of 201 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: a physiological happening, right, Two, when I say that, a 202 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,599 Speaker 1: lot of people automatically understand at least I have a 203 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: box for that. 204 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: I know what you're saying. 205 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: So that's why it's like, well, right now it's called 206 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: alcohol use disorder. Well, I'm not going to put Confessions 207 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: of a Christian with Alcohol Use Disorder right Like, not 208 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: many people like what's that? 209 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: Or it's not catchy? You know, I probably wouldn't fit 210 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: on a book. Right. 211 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: So as soon as you say alcoholic people, at least now, 212 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: and I talk about this in the book, they a 213 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: lot of times they go to an extreme vision of 214 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: what that is, but they at least understand what that is. 215 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: So that's the second reason. 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: The third reason, and this to me is one of 217 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: the most important, is that when I look at people 218 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: like Paul and Matthew, they are constantly reminding. 219 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: Us of who they were. 220 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: I recently graduated seminary and so I did kind of 221 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: a study on all the times that Paul in his 222 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: letters mentions who he used to be and what he 223 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: used to do. And it is a lot. I mean 224 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: I filled up three slides on a presentation. So Paul 225 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: talks about like I was always persecuting the way right 226 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: that's what they called Christian. I was persecuting the way 227 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: to the death. I was doing this, I was doing that. Wait, 228 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: don't forget, wretched man that I am chief of sinners. 229 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: And then you have Matthew, and I love this. Brennan 230 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: Manning points us out. He was a very famous Christian alcoholic. 231 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: He says, you know, when you look at Mark, Luke 232 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and John those gospels, whenever whenever they mention Matthew, they 233 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: talk about they mentioned Matthew or Levi, right, that was 234 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: his other name. But when Matthew in his own gospel 235 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: talks about himself, he's always saying, Matthew the publican, It's 236 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: just the tax collector. And Brennan says, you know, Matthew 237 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: is always in our face about who he was and 238 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: what he did, because he wants you to know how 239 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: low Jesus had to stoop to rescue him. And so 240 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: I look at Paul, I look at Matthew, and they 241 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,239 Speaker 1: are not running from who they were. They are constantly 242 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: throwing it in your face. No, look, look, look. And 243 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: so for me, that third reason is alcoholic. Right, that 244 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: was where my sin issue, my bent towards sin, if 245 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: you will, is and I want you to remember and 246 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: know this is what Jesus had to do to rescue me. 247 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: So that's why I use the term. It's not an 248 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: identity statement, it's a descriptor. And I think people can, 249 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, really kind of at least get that quick 250 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: idea of what I'm talking about. 251 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,479 Speaker 2: So that's that's the explanation. 252 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so glad that you said that, and I'm 253 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: so glad that you went through all of that. 254 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: I never thought of it that way. 255 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: Of the disciples constantly going back to who they were. 256 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: I love that so so much. And I think the 257 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 3: same is true for the word sober. Like some gals 258 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 3: don't like the word sober. I mean, sober minded is 259 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: obviously in the Bible, but to me, it's it also 260 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: never carried that weight. So that's something that I think 261 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: that we both and I know the gals in the 262 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 3: community talk about all the time. It's like you get 263 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 3: to choose right, like, yes, what feels good to you, 264 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 3: but daughter of the King, Son of the King, art 265 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 3: should be number one, and then and then you get 266 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 3: to go from there. So talk about the struggle, like 267 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 3: about being in that place of being a very accomplished 268 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: best selling author and being like, oh my gosh, I 269 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: can't talk about this. 270 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what that was like, I mean, in general, 271 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: I think my relationship with alcohol is always up and down, right, 272 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: And so I talk about in the book, even just 273 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: the first time I got drunk, which was you know, 274 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: my preteen, early teenage years. It's interesting I was talking 275 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: to someone on my podcast about this and made a 276 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: very similar experience where you get drunk for the first time, 277 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: And even though that did not start this like immediate, 278 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, downward spiral, it was like what I got 279 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: in that moment was instant relief, and I always remembered that, 280 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: and my body remember that, and my mind remembered that 281 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: that like, for that moment, I didn't have to worry 282 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: about anything and I could be present the racing my 283 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: mind was cool. So I always had that, in a 284 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: sense in the back of my head. And I didn't 285 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: really drink until I turned twenty one. Made up for 286 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: some lost time in my final year of college, even 287 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: though I went to like a Christian. 288 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: College and whatnot. But it was up and down from there. 289 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: You know, times of stress, I would drink more and 290 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: then I'd cut back, and you know, I subscribed to. 291 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: I think the idea that you and I see a lot, 292 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: which is if I can cut back, if I can 293 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: stop for a little bit, then I don't have a problem. 294 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: Having a problem with alcohol in my mind, was only 295 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: defined by two things, frequency and quantity. Yeah, and sure, 296 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: those are some indicators of whether you have a problem, 297 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: but they are not the only indicators, especially as a Christian, right, yes, 298 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: And so in my book, I say, like, anything that 299 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: is misordered is disordered. Right as a Christian, anything that 300 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: you place on the throne of your heart, even if 301 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: you're not getting drunk, is a problem. 302 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: Right. 303 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: So you fast forward twenty twenty one, I released this 304 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: best selling book on faith in mental health. 305 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: I'm in a good spot. 306 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: I even write in that book, Hey, I know I 307 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: have to be careful about how much I drink because 308 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: I know it can be you know something that I 309 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: turned to in times of stress, right, so aware like 310 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: all the things. But then I thought I'd gone through 311 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: the hardest part of my life already, And then I 312 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: really would I had I had more coming. And so 313 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: fall of twenty twenty one, I had my own consulting business. 314 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: I had a massive client, was making the most money 315 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: of my life. I lose that client two weeks before Christmas, 316 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: they reorganize, I'm a contractor. 317 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: They're like, sorry, you're done. 318 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: I published the book in that same fall twenty twenty one, 319 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: and I just realized I had You know, Christy, you've 320 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: been through this. You have these expectations, you have like 321 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: I think it's going to do this, or I want 322 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: it to do this. I want to make this list. 323 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: And even though I made you know, bestseller lists and 324 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: had great interviews, I was just always looking at, well, 325 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: what's the one that I didn't get. The devil just 326 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: started creeping in to whisper lies in my ear, or 327 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: lies that went back to childhood traumas and just stuff 328 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: of like you're not worthy. You know, people don't really 329 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: want to hear what you have to say. They're going 330 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: to forget about you really quickly, just all just stuff, right, yeah, 331 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: I And then you start putting that stress on of 332 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: losing the job, and I just start listening slowly. It's 333 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: not all at once. I just start drinking more and 334 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: more and more. You fast forward to that following spring, 335 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: my son is diagnosed with a tumor in his shin, 336 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: and even though that ends up being benign again. It 337 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: just it's easier to pile on the drinks. Yeah, and 338 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: so you know, a nightcap at eight became three, eight 339 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: became five, five became five o'clock somewhere, you know, and 340 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: it's just I mean, you know this, right, and so 341 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: you just I'm drinking more and more and that just 342 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: increases until it really hits ahead in May of twenty 343 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: twenty three, where I'm drinking to excess pretty much every night, 344 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: and that's like drunkenness, you know, buzz whatever, you know. 345 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: And my wife and I go on an anniversary trip 346 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: to Miami and we're staying on South Beach. There's one 347 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: night where she's like, I'd like to stay. I just 348 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of like to have a night in and she's like, 349 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want. But here's the thing, 350 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: like I wasn't. I was never a party drinker. When 351 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: your wife says you can do whatever you want, my 352 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: inclination is not I want to go out to a club. 353 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's like, oh, this is a this is 354 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: an opportunity to just be alone and drink, right, Because 355 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: I was always I was just shut my mind off drinker, 356 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: a be alone drinker. I just don't want to think drinker. 357 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: And so I say, well, I'm just gonna go down 358 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: to the hotel bar. There's NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs. I'll 359 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: grab a couple of appetisers, a drink or two, and 360 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: I'll come back up. And she looks at me because 361 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: at this point I think I'm hiding it really well, yeah, 362 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: and I am hiding a chunk of it, but it's 363 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: starting to break through, the cracks starting to seep through. 364 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: And she looks at me and she says, okay, but 365 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: don't get drunk. And I can tell you, Christy that 366 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: with everything within me, you could hook me up to 367 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: a lit detector and I would I would have passed. 368 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 2: I said, I would not get drunk. 369 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: Well, I go down to the hotel bar for a 370 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: guy who wrote a book called Professions of a Christian Alcoholic. 371 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: You can probably imagine is that I have my first drink. 372 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how many I have after that. By 373 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: the end of the night, which is really the beginning 374 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: of the next morning, I have a triple digit bar 375 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: tab and I am wasted, and I'm like, I cannot 376 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: go back. 377 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: Up to the hotel like this. 378 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors. 379 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: So I said, well, the only thing that can serve 380 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: you up is time. And so I crossed the ocean drive. 381 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: I end up on South Beach on the beach and 382 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here until I sober up. 383 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: And pretty quickly I get down there and I don't 384 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: know if you've ever been down to South Beach, Miami 385 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: at one in the. 386 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 2: Morning, but it's it's a lot Lessie went to the 387 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 2: championship game. Thank you very much. There you go. We're 388 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: here of college. So I have lived your story. 389 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like South in the club, Yeah yeah, 390 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: South Beach, Miami, yet one in the morning is pretty happen. 391 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: I get down there and I have to go to 392 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: the bathroom. Well, I shut the hotel bar down right, 393 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: so I can't go there. There's all these people around. 394 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 1: I can't just go, you know here, And so I 395 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: look and I'm like, well, I got the world's biggest 396 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: toilet in front of me. 397 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: Oh, thank god. 398 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: And so I wade into the ocean with all my 399 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: clothes on, and I start going to the bathroom and 400 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: it starts coming out of both ends, and I just 401 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: have this realization of like what has my life become? 402 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: Like I truly set out not to get drunk tonight 403 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: and this is what happens, Like I have completely lost control. Yeah, 404 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: and the next day, like I lied, my wife asked 405 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: me about it. 406 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: I lie to her. 407 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: But then I finally break down at the end of 408 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: the night and I say, hey, you know I did 409 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: get drunk. And you know she's she's devastated, and I 410 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: am making all the promises I'll never drink again. 411 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: I have a problem. I start, I can't stop, you know, 412 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: all that stuff. 413 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 1: And she looks at me and she says, John, I 414 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: don't want you to promise me to never drink again. 415 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: Like I don't care if you never drink again. That's 416 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: not what I want. I want you to get to 417 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: the root of why, yeah, you drink. And I'm thinking 418 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: in my head, can we go back to the not 419 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: drinking part? Like that would be easier, right, Like I 420 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: don't want to have to dig into the stuff because 421 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: I think what I found. 422 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 3: Why did she know to ask that? By the way, 423 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 3: that's so, I mean, I know. 424 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: Right, And like every time I tell this story, nine 425 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: times out of ten everyone says that, And I just 426 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: like it's the Holy Spirit. I was gonna say that, Yeah, 427 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: And she's a wise woman, right, And I think because 428 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: she had seen me, you know, I had battled a 429 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: porn addiction up until this, like earlier in our marriage, 430 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: and I just think she had seen and she had 431 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: known that I had gone through traumas as a kid 432 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: where I was molested by my sister. My stepdad, you know, 433 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: was abusive for a time, and so she had known 434 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: that I had these unhealed you know, things that I 435 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: had just never really dealt with. 436 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: And I had talked about in my first book. 437 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: I talked about the benefit of CA, like I'd gone 438 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: to counseling for my anxiety and OCD, but I'd never 439 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: gone to like a trauma therapist. And so she had 440 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: known that, and so she's like, you just you have 441 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: to go through that. 442 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't want to go through that, 443 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 2: Like I. 444 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: Don't want to dig this up, because there are parts 445 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: of ourselves that we will give over to Jesus, and 446 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: it's great and the health and those parts that he 447 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: that we let him in, Like they write a best 448 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: selling book on faith and mental health, But then there 449 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: are those other parts of ourselves that we wall off, 450 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: and it's like it's not necessarily just that, like, hey, 451 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't want. 452 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:30,239 Speaker 2: Jesus in there. 453 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: It's like if I have to let Jesus in there, 454 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: that means I have to go in there, right, And 455 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to face that. And so that's what 456 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: that's what was at work in me. It's like I 457 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: just I didn't want to go there. Yeah, and so 458 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: she said, it's just going to be something else. Unless 459 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: you get to the root, you're just going to try 460 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: to heal it or you know, fix it with something else. 461 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: And so my commitment to her that day was I 462 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: literally sent a inquiry form to a Christian trauma therapist 463 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: on the beach that night. And that's what I started 464 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: doing when we got back. And it was a slow process. 465 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: It was a year long of intense therapy, a M 466 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: d R therapy, IFS therapy, I mean just inviting Jesus in, 467 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: you know, through a Christian lens. And it was hard, 468 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: but the light slowly started to come back. And in 469 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: that process I kind of came to understand, well, what 470 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: did I do differently this time? Right, Like I got 471 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: like nine months removed from it, and I'm like Okay, 472 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: this is stuck, and I started to really kind of 473 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: be convicted of like I didn't shoot for sobriety this time, 474 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: that shot for Jesus. And that's where I started to 475 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: develop kind of the idea and the philosophy behind the book, 476 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: which is going back to C. S. 477 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: Lewis. 478 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: He has this line in Mere Christianity that he says, 479 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: aim for heaven and get the and get the world 480 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: thrown in. But if you aim for the world, you're 481 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: likely miss it. And so for me, I was like, 482 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: am for aam for Jesus and get sobriety thrown in. 483 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: Aim for sobriety you may get it, and millions of 484 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: people in the world have. But what I've come to 485 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: find is that and this is as a Christian. This 486 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: is not this shouldn't be a controversial thing, and yet 487 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: it is. As a Christian, I am called to let 488 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: you the world know that I truly believe the most flourishing, 489 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: fulfilled life now and an eternity is a life with Jesus. 490 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: So why do we turn that off when it comes 491 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: to sobriety? Why did we turn that off when it 492 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: comes to our drinking? 493 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: Right? 494 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: Like that has to carry over into everything. And so 495 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: what I'm saying now is I want you to have 496 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: Jesus if you if you truly have Jesus right, if 497 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: you truly give him over. And some people are like, well, 498 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm a Christian, I've given myself over to Jesus and 499 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: I still can't find sobriety. And what I would say, 500 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: and this sometimes this is hard for people to hear, 501 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: is you have not given yourself over to Jesus in 502 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: the way that he has told you to give himself over. 503 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Because if you have, if you do, I'm not saying 504 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: that you won't struggle still with wanting to drink. 505 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, or by the way, other things as well when 506 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: you see. 507 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: Amen, amen, But you have not fully turned your life 508 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: over to him in those ways. 509 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 2: And that's people, what are you talking about? I read 510 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 2: my Bible, and I'm like, it's not just about reading 511 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: your Bible. It's about an abiding relationship with Jesus. What 512 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: does that look like? So, yeah, that's the story. 513 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: There's a difference, right, And this is this is so 514 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 3: important between salvation and sanctification and being formed and discipleship 515 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 3: and all of that stuff. And I think that so 516 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: many gals that I talked to, and gals and guys 517 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 3: that you talk to, it's like, well, I shouldn't struggle 518 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 3: with this, or God's not showing up for me. He 519 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 3: should just I hear that all the time. Why want 520 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 3: you just take the desire to drink away? And I'm like, sister, 521 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 3: listen to me. He wants to teach you a million 522 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: things before. Maybe I don't know, but like before he 523 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 3: does that, and losing the desire to drink shouldn't be 524 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 3: the end goal, right, And this is beth More focus 525 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: on the deliverer, not being delivered. It's just that when 526 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: you're constantly focusing on and I've heard it so many times, 527 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 3: even in this last week that dry January I failed, 528 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 3: that you're fast I failed. And I'm like, babe, what 529 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: did I tell you? Call Number one Like, we're not 530 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: We're not aiming for alcohol free, We're aiming for Jesus. Yeah, 531 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 3: And I think Jesus wants your heart. He doesn't want 532 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 3: your sobriety. And people are like, wait, what in the end, 533 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 3: what does the scripture say? You can gain the whole world? 534 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and lose your soul if you take out 535 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: world and put in what you are most striving for 536 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: You can gain the money of a thousand kings, but 537 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: lose your soul. You can gain perfect parenthood, but lose 538 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: your soul. You can gain sobriety, but lose your soul. Right, 539 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: Jesus wants your heart? 540 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: Now? 541 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: Is it true that if you are struggling with drinking 542 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: that sobriety is a good goal and a good thing. Absolutely, 543 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: But in the end, what Jesus wants most of all 544 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: is your heart. Now, some people, I don't want you 545 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: to hear this and say, well, John said that it does. 546 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: Sobriety doesn't matter. So as long as I'm loving Jesus, 547 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: then I can drink it however much I want. Well, James, 548 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: the Book of James is very clear that if the 549 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: Holy Spirit. 550 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 2: Is convicting you of something and you don't do it, 551 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 2: it's sin. 552 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: So chances are, if you're listening to this podcast, if 553 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: you're in the Love Life sober community, you are being 554 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: convicted about your drinking. 555 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: It's just true. 556 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: And so what I'm saying is not an excuse for 557 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: you to be like, well, I can have both things. No, 558 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: if the Holy Spirit is convicting you of your drinking, 559 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: then giving Jesus your heart involves giving him your drinking, 560 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: and so that, in the end is what I am 561 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: most concerned with. Giving him your drinking is a way 562 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: for you to show sacrifice and obedience. And on the 563 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: other side of sacrifice and obedience is a flourishing that 564 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: you can't imagine. 565 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, you just literally walked right into the question that 566 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to ask. We'll be back right after a 567 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 3: quick word from our sponsors. Babe, can I pause us 568 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 3: just for a moment if you're listening to this and 569 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 3: thinking I don't want to do this alone anymore. I 570 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: want to tell you about the Love Life Sober Community. 571 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 3: This is the space where the podcast turns into real 572 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 3: connection and real support. Inside the community, we gather weekly 573 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 3: for live connection calls where you can listen, share, or 574 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 3: simply be present. There's a beautiful leadership team holding this 575 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 3: space with wisdom and care, a dedicated prayer request area 576 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 3: where you can be covered, regular masterclasses led by expert guests, 577 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: and even a worship music playlist to help you reconnect 578 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: when your nervous system needs it. Inside the community, there's 579 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 3: also a dedicated coaching space called Truevine for women who 580 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: want even deeper support. 581 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: The Love life. 582 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: Sober community is a place to connect with like minded 583 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 3: women and open up in a way you might not 584 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: be able to in your church or small group. This 585 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 3: space was created specifically for women who are questioning their 586 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: relationship with alcohol and who want the kind of freedom 587 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 3: that can only be found in Jesus. All the details 588 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: to join us are at the link in the show notes. 589 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 3: I can't wait to meet you. All right, let's go 590 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 3: back into the I think that so many times, gals 591 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: and guys and everybody thinks this is something that like, oh, yes, 592 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 3: we have to lay this down because God doesn't want 593 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 3: us to have any fun, and he wants us to 594 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 3: just walk around and be holy and not have any. 595 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: Fun or relax or connect. And that's just so not true. 596 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: Everything that he asks us to do, and I'm learning 597 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 3: this more and more as I get older and older, 598 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,479 Speaker 3: is every single thing that He asks us to do 599 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 3: is actually for us, and sobriety is totally one of 600 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: those things. 601 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's you know the scripture and I can't remember. 602 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: I think it's in Psalms, but basically where he says 603 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: at his right hand are pleasures forever more mm hmm. 604 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: It's things that It's something we say we believe as Christians, 605 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: but we don't really embody it is. One of the 606 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: most basic beliefs is that what God tells us to 607 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: do is for our good, and we just don't live 608 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: like that, and so we live like he's trying to 609 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: take stuff away from us. And really what he's saying 610 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: to us constantly is I'm trying to give you pleasures 611 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: forever more. And so here's to your point on this 612 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: other side is I have experienced joy, peace, life to 613 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: its fullest, greater than what I ever thought. Now here's 614 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: the distinction. It has been harder to be like what, Yes, 615 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: life has been harder since getting sober. Think about that, 616 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: Like you took away my main coping mechanism for whenever 617 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: things got hard. 618 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: Right. 619 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: So, yeah, alcohol is a cheap, easy form of escape. 620 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: And if it wasn't cheap, easy, quick, effective, we wouldn't 621 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: fall for it, right, But it is so when stresses 622 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: come now I have to force myself to Jesus and 623 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: what is there is greater, right, But it's not easier. 624 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: It's easier when i'm building something you know that you 625 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: and I have been talking about. When I'm building a 626 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: community for people and especially men to talk about these 627 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: things like, there's a lot. 628 00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 2: That has come my way. 629 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: My gosh, the government shutdown in the US has made 630 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: it so that I can't get an EI in well, 631 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: I can't open a bank account. Lord, you've called me 632 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: to do this. I can't even open a bank account. 633 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: People want to donate money, and I can't receive it. 634 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: What's you know, Like, you know, in a previous you 635 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: know life, three years ago, I just would have been like, oh, 636 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: that's fine, I'll just have some drinks, you know, and 637 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: that'll call my nerves and whatnot. And it did, right, 638 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: But now I'm forced to bring that to Jesus. 639 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: I'm forced to pray myself to sleep. 640 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Literally, it's not easier, but it is better, right, And 641 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: that's the distinction that I'm learning harder if you will, 642 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: can still be better. Yeah, And that's where I've landed, 643 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: and it has been, you know, I have found those 644 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: pleasures forevermore. 645 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 646 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: And I think that the refiner's fire is hot and 647 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 3: being molded as the clay of the potter is probably 648 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 3: not always fun, Yes, but it hurts and it is hard, 649 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 3: it totally is, But that's okay. And I think that 650 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: as long as you keep seeking Jesus and know him truly, 651 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 3: then you know it's for you, right, And so all 652 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 3: the hard it's like, Okay, God, I don't know what 653 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 3: you're doing. This is not fun, but your plan is better. 654 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 3: And that is something that I always just constantly feel 655 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 3: like I'm saying on a loop to the gals in 656 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 3: my community, is just like his timing is perfect. I 657 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know why you're here for a 658 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: fourth Fast, but I know that you've learned a million 659 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 3: things about who Jesus is in the meantime, So let's 660 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: keep going. Yeah, talk about talk about your community, talk 661 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 3: about what you're doing. 662 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: I'm so excited. I've only been asking you to do 663 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: this for what two years? 664 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so I think you know. I released the 665 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: book in October of twenty five. One of the things, 666 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,959 Speaker 1: of the many things that came from that is just 667 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: being indicated with people from all across the country the 668 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: world really who want gospel centered recovery, and especially men 669 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: who want gospel centered recovery, but it's just not available 670 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: to them or this is not being taught right. And 671 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: so I argue with God a little bit. I almost 672 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: took a job running another nonprofit, and the Lord made 673 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: it really clear, like no, John, like work out the 674 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: vision that I've given you. So I've started a nonprofit 675 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: called Veritas Recovery, and it is there's kind of six 676 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: pillars that undergird this ministry, and so I'll quickly go 677 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: through each one. The first one is top level resources, 678 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: and so what I mean by that is, you know, 679 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: whether that's miniseries, videos, stuff to give people an introduction 680 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: to what is gospel centered recovery, and then an introduction 681 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: to the four steps in the second half of my book, 682 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: which are abiding in Christ, finding your true identity, radical vulnerability, 683 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: and obedience. So just hey, this is these are resources 684 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: for you. This is what it looks like to pursue Jesus, 685 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: not just sobriety. 686 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: Right. 687 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: The second is media, and so I have a background. 688 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: I was the editor in chief in of I am 689 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: second Christian nonprofit that told stories of radical life transformation. 690 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: And so we have a YouTube channel that we've created 691 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: that we are going to do testimonies just on addiction 692 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: and what it looks like to shoot for Jesus. And 693 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: we have this incredible concept that I'm so excited. We 694 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: have this war winning filmmaker that we've partner with, and 695 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: the idea is we want to create media that breaks 696 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: through algorithms because three important stats. One, the median church 697 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: size in America is sixty people. Right, So going back 698 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 1: to that top level resources, right, like churches can barely 699 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: pay their pastor let alone have a thriving you know, 700 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: recovery ministry, right, So we want to provide resources for 701 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: people who don't have access to it. 702 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 2: Right. 703 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: The second thing is Barna, which is a Christian research company, 704 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: did a study that said most people are being discipled 705 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: by their algorithms, not their pastors, and that the average churchgoer, 706 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: so self identified as someone who goes to church, goes 707 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: to church one point six times a month, so less 708 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: than two times a month. So the point is people 709 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: are not going to church. When they do go to church, 710 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of resources for them. So what 711 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: are we going to do? Are we just going to 712 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: leave them behind? 713 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 4: No? 714 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: And so so then the third thing, which is what 715 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: you've really helped me kind of refine, is a community, right, 716 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: and so community of people, especially men who want to 717 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: start talking and opening up and especially being radically vulnerable. 718 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: And that's what we need, right? Yeah? Why do why 719 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 2: do pastors fall? Why why does anyone fall? 720 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: Right? It's like you have not been radically vulnerable enough. 721 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: So it's an online community that is focused on fostering 722 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: confessional community, right. 723 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 2: Love. 724 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: That The fourth thing is what I call education. And 725 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: so you know, I have my own podcast, I do 726 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: my speaking and travel the country talking about what is 727 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: gospel centered recovery? Why do we need it? How is 728 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: that different than secular recovery? Where does secular recovery fall short? 729 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: Why is aiming for Jesus and not sobriety better? So 730 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: that's the that's the fourth pillar. The fifth pillar is retreats. 731 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: And I'm really excited about this. This is something that 732 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: the Lord has put in my heart for years, is 733 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: creating retreats for people to really go in depth, especially 734 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: on the four steps and so bringing you know, whether 735 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: that's couples, whether that is pastors, whether that's one just 736 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: for men, one just for women, which then I would 737 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: need someone like Christiev's wan to come along and help 738 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: me with. And so you know, it's a fourth subject focus. Right, 739 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: It's using the abiding, radical vulnerability, identity, and obedience over 740 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: the course of a weekend. And then the sixth pillar 741 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: is something that is we're calling equipping and empowering. And 742 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: so the truth is that a lot of people who 743 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: fall into addiction, especially hard, they've squandered opportunities, right, and 744 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: so it's providing opportunities for them to have meaningful work 745 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: that gets them back on their feet. And so we 746 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: are partnering. One of our board members has an incredible 747 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: vision for he's a he's a top rated chef, and 748 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: so he has a vision for creating a restaurant that 749 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: is focused solely on employing people with addiction stories that 750 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: have really you know, sparntered stuff away and getting them. 751 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 2: Back on their feet. 752 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: So those are the six Those are the six pillars. 753 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: And that's why you know, you and I were talking. 754 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: It's like it's like, I'm not saying it's exclusively for men. 755 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm saying it's focused on men because it's like you 756 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: know that six pillar, right, It's like, well, you know, 757 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: we're not going to only employ men, and the retreats 758 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: are not necessarily only for men, but certain aspects, people 759 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: like you, Christy and are serving the female community well. 760 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: And so I tell people like I'm not trying to 761 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: reinvent the wheel. I'm not trying to take people away 762 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: from the local church. I'm trying to funnel people into 763 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: the local church. I'm trying to funnel people into deeper 764 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: discipleship and and so it's not a competition with the 765 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: local church, not a competition with other people that I 766 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: know we're doing things really well. It's trying to get 767 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: them into those things as well. 768 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm so excited for you. 769 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: So you can go to Veritasrecovery dot org to see 770 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: more and what we're doing and get involved, especially if 771 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: you are if you're someone who knows a man who 772 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: needs help. 773 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 2: There will be so many women that are listening to 774 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 2: this that do yeah, yeah, thank you, my friend, thank you. 775 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 3: I'm so excited to see just what happens in the 776 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 3: next however many years with all of this, it's going 777 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 3: to be so exciting. 778 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: Trusting God, right, Like it's like, you know, I went 779 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: to seminary, put my job out hold, you know, my 780 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: wife has been supporting us, and then like we go 781 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: this and I'm like, well, I'm not bringing in a 782 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: salary yet from this nonprofit, so lord, you're gonna. 783 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 2: Have to ride And he just keeps yeah, keeps giving manna. 784 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: You know yeah, I love that. Thank you, my friend. 785 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 3: All Right, girls, we will see you next week. Thank 786 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 3: you for listening to Love Life Sober. We love you, 787 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 3: We're praying for you. See you next week. Thank you 788 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 3: for spending this time with me on Love Life Sober. 789 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 3: If today's conversation stirred something in your heart, don't rush 790 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 3: past it, take it to prayer. If you're feeling ready 791 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 3: for deeper connection and support, I'd love to invite you 792 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 3: into the love Life Sober community, a grace filled, shame 793 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 3: free space where real connection grows and lasting change takes root. 794 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 3: You can find the link to join us in the 795 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 3: show notes. Love Life Sober is part of the Life 796 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 3: Audio podcast network, where faith centered podcasts help you grow 797 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 3: deeper in your walk with Christ. You can find more 798 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,959 Speaker 3: faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Until next time, 799 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 3: be gentle with yourself, stay curious, and trust God's promises. 800 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 2: He has freedom waiting for you.