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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: There are definitely seasons when God might feel far away.

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Speaker 2: Life is hard these days, and it's easy to fall

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Speaker 2: into disappointment or to be overwhelmed by the noise of

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Speaker 2: the culture. But even when this happens, something else is true.

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Speaker 2: God is always with us. Scripture tells a story of

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Speaker 2: a God who pursues not casually or cautiously, but with

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Speaker 2: steadfast love that refuses to let go, a love that

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Speaker 2: runs toward us even when we are unsure, distracted, or

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Speaker 2: convinced we've wandered too far. Hi friends, I'm Jem Faddling

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Speaker 2: and this is the Unhurried Living podcast where we inspire

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Speaker 2: you to rest deeper, live fuller, and lead better. This

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Speaker 2: is the conversation that's an invitation to remember that no

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Speaker 2: matter your story, God is still pursuing you back to wholeness,

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Speaker 2: to rest, and to who you truly are. After a

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Speaker 2: word and our sponsor will dive into our conversation for today. Today,

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by Whitney Lowe, an author, Bible teacher, and

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Speaker 2: a thoughtful voice for young women who long to encounter

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Speaker 2: God beyond the noise of the scroll. Whitney's book, called

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Speaker 2: Back to Who You Are, is an invitation to see

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Speaker 2: your life through the eyes of faith, to recognize the

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Speaker 2: ways God has been pursuing you all along. Drawing from scripture,

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Speaker 2: including the story of Gomer in the Book of Hoseiah

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Speaker 2: and from her own lived experience, Whitney explores identity, rest, revival,

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Speaker 2: and the deep assurance that God does not abandon the

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Speaker 2: one he loves. This conversation is not about striving harder

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Speaker 2: or fixing yourself. It's about returning to the God who

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Speaker 2: never stopped rising to show you compassion. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: as you're listening to this podcast, I'd love for you

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Speaker 2: to follow us and if you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe.

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Speaker 2: It's free and it helps Unhurried Living be discovered by

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Speaker 2: more people enjoy my conversation with Whitney. Well, hello, Whitney Lo,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Unhurried Living podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's such an honor to be back and it's so

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Speaker 3: fun to catch up with you a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: I know we already did a lot of off off

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Speaker 2: the camera chit chat because I'm friends with Whitney's mom,

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Speaker 2: and course Whitney and I are friends, but just catching

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Speaker 2: up on life. It's always fun to do that a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we go way back.

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Speaker 3: I love that stuff when you have those connections that

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Speaker 3: kind of weave through like that.

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Speaker 1: So thanks for being one of those.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 4: You've got a new book and it is called Let's

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Speaker 4: Show It called back to Who you Are, and the

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Speaker 4: subtitle I love finding yourself in the wild pursuing love

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Speaker 4: of God.

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Speaker 2: Who does not need that message?

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Speaker 1: I know?

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Speaker 3: And I feel like even just writing it, it was

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Speaker 3: a reminder of how important it is to always be

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Speaker 3: living from that place of knowing how far God has

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Speaker 3: gone to get you back. So it was a blessing

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Speaker 3: to even just write it, even though it felt like

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Speaker 3: it was pretty hard.

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Speaker 2: To Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to write a book. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you pour a lot of yourself in there. Of course,

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Speaker 2: you want to be intelligent and readable, but you're also

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Speaker 2: sharing your own thoughts and your own stories in your

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Speaker 2: own life. So let's start right there kind of where

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Speaker 2: you have us. You know, what does this call back

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Speaker 2: to who you are? What does that mean? And why

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Speaker 2: do you think it feels necessary especially for now?

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Speaker 3: Well, so in looking at my own story and in

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Speaker 3: thinking about even what I would want to write a

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Speaker 3: book about it felt like the Lord really had placed

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Speaker 3: on my heart this theme of God's pursuit of me

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Speaker 3: and my life because I grew up Christian, and I

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Speaker 3: believe that I truly did understand on theological and even

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Speaker 3: emotional level in a lot of ways, like who Jesus

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Speaker 3: was to me. I went to college and studied religious studies.

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Speaker 3: They felt like I didn't really ever have a super crazy,

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Speaker 3: like going off the rails moment, and for that reason,

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Speaker 3: it felt like I didn't totally understand the sin and

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Speaker 3: darkness that God had rescued me from. And so it's

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Speaker 3: almost like God gave me the season of life. And

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Speaker 3: more than that, you know, I chose to try to

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Speaker 3: do things my own way for a season of life,

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Speaker 3: and that is where I really learned how destructive that

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Speaker 3: thing called sin can be in us, anything that is

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Speaker 3: unsurrendered to the power of God and his plan for us,

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Speaker 3: how destructive those things can be to our souls. And

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Speaker 3: then through that, in seeking me out and bringing me back,

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Speaker 3: God really taught me about how far he would go

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Speaker 3: to get me back. Because as someone who'd been a

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Speaker 3: Christian my whole life, I felt very much like I

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Speaker 3: was undeserving of God's attention and his energy and his

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Speaker 3: desire to be with me, because I felt like I

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Speaker 3: knew all the right answer already and I should have

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Speaker 3: been held to this higher standard and I failed, and

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Speaker 3: so God was going to move on and be done

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Speaker 3: with me. And that couldn't be further from what I

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Speaker 3: experienced over the next few years of my life after

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Speaker 3: going through a really dark season where I did get

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Speaker 3: to see God seeking me out with love, God directing

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Speaker 3: me into opportunities as a form of pursuit, God disciplining

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Speaker 3: me in the sense of, you know, maybe not allowing

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Speaker 3: me to have certain opportunities or certain relationships or certain

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Speaker 3: things I thought I needed or deserved because it would,

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Speaker 3: you know, distract me or take me away from His

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Speaker 3: ultimate plan for blessing. And I really feel that I

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Speaker 3: just got to experience and live out God's pursuit in

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Speaker 3: a really multi dimensional and deep way, and that has

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Speaker 3: pretty much framed my spiritual experience since that time. So

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Speaker 3: that just felt important. And I feel like when you

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Speaker 3: see that God is pursuing you, that is the necessary

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Speaker 3: lens to understand everything about yourself and your story and

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Speaker 3: the rest of His plan for you.

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Speaker 1: Know significance and meaning in your own life.

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Speaker 3: And now that we're in culture, or in this moment

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Speaker 3: in culture in America in twenty twenty six, I feel

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Speaker 3: like more Christians especially need to be reminded that God's

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Speaker 3: pursuing love also draws us into the pursuit of others.

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Speaker 3: When we really get it, we are also extending ourselves

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Speaker 3: out beyond ourselves or even the four walls of our

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Speaker 3: home to pursue people that may not feel particularly deserving.

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Speaker 1: According to us.

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Speaker 3: And so really kind of as comprehensively as you can

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Speaker 3: maybe tell, this idea of God's pursuit has really kind

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Speaker 3: of taken over in the best way my experience of God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I really love that the word pursue, and I

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Speaker 2: know that there's we can get into this in a bit.

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Speaker 2: Just some people may have a more difficult time with

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Speaker 2: that phrase. But what you're sharing with me so far

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Speaker 2: is that doesn't matter how you grew up, you know

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Speaker 2: God will pursue it. Know you came up through basically

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Speaker 2: a Christian home, Christian school, Christian upbringing, and still there's

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Speaker 2: still that desire inside of us to be pursued by

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Speaker 2: loving God. It's not just not just the people who

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Speaker 2: may have a little bit a different story, right right, right,

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Speaker 2: not that same upgrade. So it doesn't matter who we are.

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Speaker 2: This receiving of God's pursuing love is an important thing

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Speaker 2: to think about and to embrace. So I wonder too,

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Speaker 2: maybe you were a little generic here when you just

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Speaker 2: describe it. Can you go a little bit into the

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Speaker 2: story where you sort of encountered God in this way

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Speaker 2: you said there was a little bit of discipline and

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Speaker 2: a little bit of back and forth. What was that?

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Speaker 2: What was that about?

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Speaker 3: Well? And I guess the whole book really does sort

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Speaker 3: of paint different pictures of my life story in wherein

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Speaker 3: I experienced God's pursued differently. But I think where this

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Speaker 3: whole journey started it was in the last few years

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Speaker 3: that I was in college. I developed an eating disorder

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Speaker 3: that really took over. I'd say everything good about my

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Speaker 3: life and co opted all of God's intention and blessing

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Speaker 3: for me. And really it was me that I sort

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Speaker 3: of started digging the hole, right, I said to myself

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Speaker 3: when I remember this, And I guess I won't speak

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Speaker 3: for everyone who's experienced and eating disorder, but for me,

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Speaker 3: I know I made some choices at the beginning that

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Speaker 3: were like, Yeah, I'm gonna go to the gym at

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Speaker 3: eleven PM because I absolutely feel like I must, or

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Speaker 3: I am choosing to prioritize this thing about myself over

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Speaker 3: what I know God says to be true, because I'd

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Speaker 3: walked with other friends through eating disorders before this, and

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Speaker 3: I knew full well what God has to say about it,

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Speaker 3: and I know that I was breaking God's heart in

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Speaker 3: those moments. And yet I loved the feeling of control.

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Speaker 3: I loved the way I could sort of manufacture significance

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Speaker 3: for myself.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of leaned in and I know that

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Speaker 1: I did that.

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Speaker 3: But the thing about it is you might start digging

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Speaker 3: the hole, but about fifteen minutes later, you realize that

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Speaker 3: you are no longer in control of the shell, and

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Speaker 3: now you are deep down in this abyss almost and

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Speaker 3: you can't claw your way out, and you're wondering. You

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Speaker 3: don't even know how far you are really from home

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Speaker 3: at that point. And that's how I felt, And so

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Speaker 3: because of that, I would say it kind of enveloped

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Speaker 3: my healthy relationships and drove me into patterns of isolation

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Speaker 3: and dishonesty. I would say it made me rely too

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Speaker 3: heavily on superficial means of connecting with others, with like

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Speaker 3: partying and alcohol and those silly things that our culture

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Speaker 3: kind of likes to.

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Speaker 1: Pretend are you know, fun and no big deal.

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Speaker 3: And maybe that's sometimes true, but I think for me,

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Speaker 3: it was definitely a way of trying to get around

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Speaker 3: this big hole that I felt in my heart. And

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Speaker 3: you know, once you're in that pattern, it's just one

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Speaker 3: destructive cycle to the next, almost. And so the Lord

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Speaker 3: got me back to is Simble, Turkey, which is where

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Speaker 3: I had studied abroad a few years prior.

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Speaker 1: And I was on a mission trip.

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Speaker 3: But you know, of course, just with wherever I was at, spiritually,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't so much which I'm here to serve the Lord.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of like, this seems good, this seems

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Speaker 3: good for job resumes, and it seems like a fun

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Speaker 3: travel opportunity.

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Speaker 1: So I'm back in is symbol.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't get on Wi Fi, I couldn't watch TV,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't read any of the books that were stocked

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Speaker 3: in the airbnb because they were all in Turkish. And

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Speaker 3: I was up at four am, unable to sleep, and

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Speaker 3: all alone. And I remember, just for whatever reason, God

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Speaker 3: drawing me into the Book of Joseiah, and as I read,

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Speaker 3: I felt so seen by God. And the thing that

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Speaker 3: was crazy is that Joseah is not an easy read.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is pretty heavy, and the pictures that

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Speaker 3: are painted are meant to be emotionally evocative. They are

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Speaker 3: meant to be painful, because it's meant to show us

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Speaker 3: how God feels when we run, and yet that He

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Speaker 3: will not give up, that he will continue chasing after

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Speaker 3: us with that steadfast love. And that was true for

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Speaker 3: Israel and the Old Testament, which is what Joseah the

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Speaker 3: prophet was speaking into, but it's also true of each

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Speaker 3: of us individually now, and that's sort of what this

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Speaker 3: book is about. And there's one verse in particular, Hooseiah

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Speaker 3: two fourteen that says, therefore I will allure her, I'll

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Speaker 3: draw her into the wilderness and speak tenderly to her,

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Speaker 3: and that was just like, oh my gosh, I feel alone,

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Speaker 3: I feel unmoored, I feel purposeless, and I feel really

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Speaker 3: honestly very uncomfortable with the literal silence. But also this

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Speaker 3: disconnect from God and others that I'd been experiencing. I

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Speaker 3: felt like I was in the desert, and it was

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Speaker 3: the scariest place to be. But then in that moment

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Speaker 3: got sort of reframed to but in the desert is

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Speaker 3: where you'll be able to hear me speaking tenderly to

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Speaker 3: you again. This is where you'll be able to hear

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Speaker 3: me reaffirm all of the good plans that I've always

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Speaker 3: had for you and my deep love for you. And

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Speaker 3: it was through that experience with Hoseiah that I would

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Speaker 3: say God sort of changed the entire trajectory of my life.

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Speaker 3: And honestly, I would say gave me a real testimony.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I had something to share before.

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Speaker 3: I believe it is God's faithfulness that I was raised

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Speaker 3: in a Christian home. I believe that as a very

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Speaker 3: legitimate path to knowing God. But for me again needing

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Speaker 3: to understand even like the alternative options, you know, like

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Speaker 3: this is what it could look like. I think that

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Speaker 3: was really important for me and my spiritual journey.

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Speaker 2: Oh good, you know you're talking about the wilderness moments

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Speaker 2: and night. It is a it is a hard truth,

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Speaker 2: but it is the way it works. What you said.

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Speaker 2: We can hear God's voice maybe more clearly when we're

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Speaker 2: out in the wilderness or if it's a fog, or

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Speaker 2: if it's a desert, and it's because I think there's

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Speaker 2: something inside of us, whether we're aware of it yet

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Speaker 2: or not, that is like our longings are exposed, right

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Speaker 2: because if we're just humming along, you know, we have

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Speaker 2: seasons where sometimes we're just humming along and our longings

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Speaker 2: just aren't as on the surface. But when you're in

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Speaker 2: a dark place or a weary place, I think there's

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Speaker 2: a there's a beauty there that does that can occur,

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Speaker 2: that see God for who really is and to have

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Speaker 2: Him meet us in our weakness or our darkness or

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Speaker 2: whatever's happening. And again, even though that's hard, those who

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Speaker 2: have experienced it know what we're talking about. There is

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Speaker 2: a beauty there that's different than any other way of

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Speaker 2: connecting with God's love, do you think absolutely?

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Speaker 3: And to your question, a lot of the time, I

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Speaker 3: think what we forget is that even if you're someone

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Speaker 3: who loves silence and solitude, if you get out of

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Speaker 3: that pattern, it becomes genuinely scary and intimidating, and it

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Speaker 3: feels like there's something in your soul that resists it.

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Speaker 3: As soon as you kind of wander away from that pattern,

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Speaker 3: because that's what our world is set up to set

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Speaker 3: up to do, is overstimulate you and bombard you and

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Speaker 3: cloud your thinking.

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Speaker 1: And so I feel like you kind of always have.

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Speaker 3: To fight that resistance to those desert places, because the

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Speaker 3: desert is also full reliance, right, It's full reliance on

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Speaker 3: something that is not of yourself that we really buck

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Speaker 3: up against. But as far as the discipline of it

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Speaker 3: all goes, I think those are the times when sometimes

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Speaker 3: God has to remove us from things that are destroying us.

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Speaker 3: And initially, and especially i'd say even through like the

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Speaker 3: earlier chapters of our story, that feels very almost like

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Speaker 3: offensive and uncomfortable and painful, but you realize that the

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Speaker 3: discipline of a loving father is to say this is

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Speaker 3: not for you. We are going back to the place

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Speaker 3: where I can remind you what this is all about

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Speaker 3: and who you are. And the problem, I think is

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Speaker 3: that we so often expect that to feel warm and fuzzy,

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Speaker 3: when in actuality, almost nowhere in scripture does that process

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Speaker 3: look warm and fuzzy. You know, it was like Jonah,

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Speaker 3: who God gave a very specific purpose. You're going to

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Speaker 3: go and you're going to try to win these people

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Speaker 3: back to me with a message that might be hard

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Speaker 3: for them to hear, but I know where I'm sending you.

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Speaker 3: I know I've equipped you for this. Jonah runs and

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Speaker 3: God's like mm mmm, like let's get back on track, buddy.

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Speaker 3: But it was a hard story for him, Like it

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Speaker 3: wasn't this easy thing. Anytime God reroutes us. There's a

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Speaker 3: certain de of discomfort that comes with that. And I

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Speaker 3: think again, I think our culture is very resistant to

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Speaker 3: the idea of discipline, period, but especially as it pertains

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Speaker 3: to God is a father, and I want people to

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Speaker 3: maybe look back at that, look back at the hard

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Speaker 3: things that they're experiencing, and maybe just explore, is this

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Speaker 3: something that God is not allowing me to have because

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Speaker 3: He cares about me? And this is something that is

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Speaker 3: leading to my destruction. That's not always true of pain,

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Speaker 3: of course, but is there a way we can reframe

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Speaker 3: some of those things as actually the love of God

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Speaker 3: for us and to us and embodied in our lives

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Speaker 3: when we don't get everything that we think we should have,

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Speaker 3: and I think that can be a desert too.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, there's definitely some discernment there, because sometimes life

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Speaker 2: does just happen to people totally not it's not a discipline,

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Speaker 2: it's not a correction. It's like life is lifing out

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Speaker 2: there and things are influencing, so for sure. But sometimes, yes,

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Speaker 2: there are ways in which God is a loving father.

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Speaker 2: And I think you're right most of us don't like

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Speaker 2: the word discipline.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for any number.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's because not a lot of

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Speaker 2: people have had really loving, nurturing, stable parents who have

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Speaker 2: modeled that kind of love that has discipline.

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Speaker 1: But also.

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Speaker 2: The list I just made loving nurturing, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, and you're right, it's the steadfast love of God,

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Speaker 3: and that's a big part of the book is really

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Speaker 3: outlining his steadfast, unrelenting love that must pair with healthy,

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Speaker 3: good discipline when it's done correctly.

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Speaker 1: And I think you're right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people had parents that were really good

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Speaker 3: at the discipline, but were withholding with their love, or

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Speaker 3: they were conditional with their love, and that's why I

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Speaker 3: think it's a hard idea for people to feel. So

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Speaker 3: I guess that is sort of one of the sub

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Speaker 3: points of at least a few of the chapters is

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Speaker 3: can we read disc gover this idea of discipline and

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Speaker 3: maybe even reassessing some of those hard things, not all,

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Speaker 3: but some as actually really a beautiful act of love

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Speaker 3: from a God whose ways are higher, you know. And

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Speaker 3: I agree, I think we kind of have done this

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Speaker 3: pendulum swing from for a long time we are spiritually

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Speaker 3: bypassing everything with God has a plan, you know, that

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Speaker 3: kind of talk, And so I don't want to go

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Speaker 3: back to that, but I think maybe we swung almost

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Speaker 3: too far to the everything is random, nothing has meaning,

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Speaker 3: even in some faith circles. And now I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: so how do we maybe take that pendulum back to

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Speaker 3: a healthy middle of Sometimes the world is broken and

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Speaker 3: stuff just happens, and sometimes God is pursuing you even

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Speaker 3: through those really really tough things that you're walking through

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Speaker 3: right now. And there's a lot of different angles you

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Speaker 3: can approach that. It's not all discipline. But that's one

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Speaker 3: thing I'm interested in for sure. Well, and I think

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Speaker 3: this is actually an advertisement for spiritual direction. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Amen, this is why you need a spiritual director, because

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Speaker 2: you can bring these circumstances to them and they can

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Speaker 2: help you discern. I love the word discern because I

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Speaker 2: think there's not a lot of discernment going on right

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Speaker 2: and I think there's a lot of reacting and just

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Speaker 2: talking without thought, and we I think we need to

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Speaker 2: become people of discernment and reflection and wisdom. And one

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Speaker 2: way to do that is have a spiritual director so

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Speaker 2: that these ideas that Whitney is bringing up to us,

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Speaker 2: we can we can have a wise counsel in front

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Speaker 2: of us, you know, and then we then we would

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Speaker 2: know how to lean in toward God no matter what,

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Speaker 2: no matter what the discernment came. Well, either way, I

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Speaker 2: want to be with God in this what would that

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Speaker 2: look like? So anyway, I just had to do a

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Speaker 2: little pitch there for spiritual direction. No, I think that's

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Speaker 2: such a good Yeah, it's the conversation for a spiritual

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Speaker 2: director to have with you, is what's going on here?

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Speaker 2: So well, let's says Linger just a little bit longer

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Speaker 2: in Hosea, maybe share just a brief version of the

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Speaker 2: Gomer Store, you know, you share her story and it's

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Speaker 2: apropos here, you know. Yeah, I'd love to hear that.

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Speaker 3: Well, So it's again a really hard story to read

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Speaker 3: without discernment. So that's another maybe point of if you

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Speaker 3: are new to the Bible, especially or if you are

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Speaker 3: not totally sure what to do with it, and really,

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Speaker 3: even for super seasoned believers, I don't think that this

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Speaker 3: is a book of the Bible that was meant to

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Speaker 3: be read in isolation and interpreted in isolation. So spiritual direction,

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Speaker 3: community so essential. But the story is basically that God

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Speaker 3: approaches a prophet named Hoseah when his people are just

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Speaker 3: in this really dark place of rebelling, of allowing surrounding

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Speaker 3: cultures to degrade. I guess God's relationship with them and

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Speaker 3: the covenantal law that God has established with his people,

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Speaker 3: and so he has continued throughout the entire Old Testament,

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Speaker 3: honestly to say, come back to me, come back to me.

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Speaker 3: You're hurting yourselves, you're killing yourselves, come back to me.

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Speaker 3: And this time he chooses sort of an unconventional approach

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Speaker 3: in telling Joseah the prophet to marry an faithful wife.

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Speaker 3: And she's kind of traditionally understood to be a sex worker,

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Speaker 3: but I think that's not one hundred percent the scholarly consensus. Actually,

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Speaker 3: the point is he just knows she's gonna seek out

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Speaker 3: relationships with other men, and she's going to continue leaving

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Speaker 3: him and going into that. Right, Hoseiah has to commit

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Speaker 3: with a steadfast love to her, flourishing even if he

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Speaker 3: knows he's going to get hurt in the process. And

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Speaker 3: so even just that little thing of like when God

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Speaker 3: commits to us, he knows his own heart will be broken.

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Speaker 3: And you see that on the cross too, when God

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Speaker 3: sent Jesus, when Jesus was walking on earth, it was

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Speaker 3: not with this triumphalistic expectation. It was my heart will

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Speaker 3: be broken by these people that I'm walking with and

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Speaker 3: that I love, And God does it anyway. So right

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Speaker 3: from the beginning, you know, it's it's realizing that God's

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Speaker 3: expectation for this relationship is not based on anything idealistic.

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Speaker 3: It is based on the reality of our brokenness, and

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Speaker 3: he chooses to enter in regardless.

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Speaker 1: So I thought that was really beautiful.

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Speaker 3: But then, as expected, Gomer continues to leave Joseah's home

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Speaker 3: and go seek out other lovers, to go seek out

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Speaker 3: the provision and the gifts of these other lovers, despite

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Speaker 3: the fact that Joseah has offered her a home, a relationship, a.

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Speaker 2: Marriage will continue after the break.

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Speaker 3: And then in this really moving chapter, God gives Joseah

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Speaker 3: the names of his children and Gomer's children, and they're prophetic,

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Speaker 3: so they're basically all names that sort of negate God's

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Speaker 3: relationship with Israel, not my people, not loved. And then

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Speaker 3: in just even the subsequent chapters, you see another reversal

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Speaker 3: of that of God saying, even though this is what

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Speaker 3: I should have done, even though I should have abandoned

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Speaker 3: you as my people, even though your child kind of

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Speaker 3: prophetically stands for the result of your unfaithfulness, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to give you again a name of my people mine.

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Speaker 1: We get that really.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful verse where, if you've heard it, it's how could

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Speaker 3: I give you up?

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Speaker 1: Ephram I taught you how to walk? I am your father.

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Speaker 3: I've been with you from the beginning, just this relentless

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Speaker 3: commitment to the flourishing of his people. And I think again,

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Speaker 3: if you're able to kind of track through this narrative,

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Speaker 3: you will find your eyes really opened to the fact

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Speaker 3: that God is not afraid of the mess that we've created,

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Speaker 3: and God will absolutely, under no circumstances ever walk away

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Speaker 3: from us. It is really a matter of rather than

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Speaker 3: trying to find God or chase after God or figure

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Speaker 3: out where he's been hiding our whole life, turning around

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Speaker 3: and seeing that He has indeed been following us with

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Speaker 3: his goodness and mercy all the days of our life.

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Speaker 3: And I think that is the story that Jose ultimately tells.

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Speaker 2: So good.

438
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: I love that.

439
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: My people, my people. It just sounds well connected and relational,

440
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: which I think again is a missing piece of what's

441
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: going on in our culture right now, with a lot

442
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 2: of contempt and people being isolated, and it doesn't sound

443
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: possessive to me maybe at this season of my life.

444
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 2: To me, it sounds very invitational my people, and draw

445
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: you back to myself. And I think it's good to

446
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 2: rehearse that God is love. It's so easy to forget,

447
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: and so I really love that. You know, I know

448
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: some people who are listening may even feel I mean,

449
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what Gomer felt, but I mean

450
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: maybe you know, disqualified, or you know, un unsalvageable or something.

451
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: You know, what would you want to say to someone

452
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: who feels like they're drifting or their mistakes pushed them

453
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: too far away? You know, what would you say to

454
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: that fear or that concern.

455
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 3: Well, the first thing that I like that you're doing

456
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 3: here and not really answering your question directly, but it's

457
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: to kind of spend that time, that spiritual imagination on

458
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: Gomer because they think it's easy to read that book

459
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 3: and think of her as the and in many ways

460
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 3: that is sort of the intended role, is like she's

461
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: the one that continues breaking the covenant. But also I

462
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 3: found myself really growing in compassion of just like what

463
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 3: was she coming out of? What was her family story,

464
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 3: what was her background? What trauma had she been through

465
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: that made it so hard for her to receive healthy love?

466
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 3: And I think there is a lot to be said

467
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: for spending some time trying to place ourselves in the

468
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 3: story on one hand, but also just to give that

469
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 3: interpretive generosity to some of these characters, not because they're

470
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 3: the star of the show and we need them to

471
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: be the good guy, like no, at the end of

472
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: the day, God is the hero, but because I think

473
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: it makes it a little bit easier to recognize that

474
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: God is again not afraid of whatever we've been through,

475
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: and that God is intent on redeeming us with that love.

476
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: So the point isn't I want Gomer because I want

477
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: Gomer to be my possession. The point is Gomer is

478
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 3: an image bearer, and Gomer is worthy of love. And

479
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: Gomer is also supposed to be in a healthy marriage

480
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: for both her and Joseah, right, Like, there there's a dignity.

481
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: I think that is given to her even though she's running,

482
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: like God wouldn't be chasing her. God wouldn't be telling

483
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: Joseah to chase after her if there wasn't an inherent

484
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 3: worth and dignity. And so I think it's worth sitting

485
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: with that. And if you are someone who reads that

486
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 3: story and identifies with Gomer, then I think you need

487
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: to sit with that too, that if there was nothing

488
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: worth chasing, God wouldn't be doing it. But as an

489
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: image bearer, as someone that God has said, you are

490
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: going to carry this picture of your creator. And for

491
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: that reason, because the inherent nature of the Trinity is

492
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 3: that perfect community. If you are bearing his image, then

493
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: the heart of God is also always going to desire

494
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: community with you too. So you simply as an image bear,

495
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: as somebody that God created. I don't want to say

496
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: you can't escape that because that makes it sound scary,

497
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 3: but like you cannot run too far, and you've got

498
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: those passages in Salmone thirty nine. Even if I descend

499
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 3: to the depths, you are with me, you can't go

500
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 3: anywhere that God's love is not also willing to chase

501
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: after you. And I do think that once you realize

502
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: that you find yourself in a sense of divine safety,

503
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: that sort of has the opposite effect. I think we

504
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 3: worry that that makes people feel like they should run further,

505
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 3: do more, or should sin abound by no means right,

506
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: it's no. Now you know you're safe and that God

507
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 3: still desires you, And so I think we start to

508
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: take down those walls and take down those defenses and

509
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: turn back to him when we realize that his number

510
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: one priority is just being close to us.

511
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: I think it's important not to make people mono dimensional.

512
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: No one's mono dimensional, and there are dynamics, and if

513
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: you have any imagination at all, you could imagine what

514
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: kind of life Gomer had that brought her to the

515
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: place that she was. Yeah, And I think that's important

516
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: because it's easy, like you said, just to see it,

517
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: read it, judge. It's especially in the Bible because some

518
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: stories like that go by really fast and you're just

519
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: reading a name and then you don't know what's going on.

520
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: But to make it more personal then makes it actually

521
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: more personal, Right, then you can really dive into what's

522
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: going on. The Other thing I think you're saying, which

523
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: is really important is now follow my grammar here. God

524
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: cannot not love, right because first John says God is love,

525
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 2: So there, he can't not love. He has to love

526
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: because that's who he is.

527
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: And so.

528
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: You know you've got the word relentless. Is the word

529
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: relentless here pursuing the wild mild life. I think of

530
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: the word relentless, you know, I don't want us to

531
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: be afraid of his word, that we're being pursued relentlessly

532
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: by the wild love of God. I mean, let that

533
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: capture you in a beautiful way. I think it's it's

534
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: an invitation to open ourselves up, even the broken parts,

535
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: even the wounded parts, even the wilderness areas, and let

536
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: God meet us there. We're big here at unhurriedly we'd

537
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: like to talk about God with us all the time,

538
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: because I mean God with us, and yes, all the time,

539
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: but we do talk about it all the time. In

540
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: whatever circumstance you're in.

541
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter.

542
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: God is toward you, and how can you open up

543
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: your arms to that? So absolutely wondering, you know, you're

544
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: on social media. You've got a following there, and I

545
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: follow you. It's always fun to see what's going on.

546
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: But I want to talk about that just from it,

547
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: because I've been having just a it's a push me

548
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: pull you with with social you know, I'm still there.

549
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be encouraging, but my own part, it's

550
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: not that i'm I don't think I hate social media.

551
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: I think I hate the game. So I get frustrated

552
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: by the algorithmic game. And that's a thing I can't win.

553
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: I understand it as best I can, but I don't

554
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: know how to play it. So then you're on there

555
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: and you're just trying to be a voice of goodness,

556
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: right if you have, you have a true following on

557
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: there and people are engaging with you. So I'm wondering

558
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: how you hold that space, you know, where there is

559
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: outrage and there's comparison, and there's all the things that

560
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: are on there. How do you hold that space there?

561
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: And what are you you said? I'm asking like, yeah,

562
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: what do you do with your heart while you're engaging

563
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: on your social media? What are you thinking about the people?

564
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: About what you're saying?

565
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: Well, I've learned a lot I do think that there's

566
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: sort of this idea that we have to really be

567
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: on guard when we're on there, just like anything else,

568
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: you know. I think we maybe previously thought of social

569
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: media as sort of a neutral space, and you know,

570
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, morally neutral probably, you know,

571
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: if it was what it used to be. But more

572
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 3: and more it feels like these algorithms are actually pretty

573
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: insidious and pretty advanced at attacking insecurities or things that

574
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: we know are vulnerable, or really destructive patterns and habits.

575
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: And for that reason, someone who does feel like, for

576
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: whatever reason, the Lord has created this platform in this following,

577
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: I am on guard in that space all the time.

578
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: I'm not thinking of it as something to mindlessly consume.

579
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 3: It is something that I think we need to really

580
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: be extremely intentional with our presence in, and so I

581
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: try really hard to say, my job here is to

582
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: make sure that people have at least one voice to

583
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: look to that is not sensationalizing and is not rage baiting,

584
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: but is offering a picture of following Jesus that is

585
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: rooted in the security of knowing somebody already won this

586
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: whole battle right and the love that God extends toward

587
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: us and pursues us with that. I would like to

588
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: embody having, you know, kind of come through my testimony

589
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: and being on this side of this, I'm like, Okay,

590
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: so now I'm in the stage where I am overflowing

591
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: in the same way I would hope that God would

592
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: have me overflow. I am pursuing and joining him in

593
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: that pursuit because he's done that work in me, and

594
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: so trying to embody that on.

595
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: Social media is tricky.

596
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: But I feel like, you know, really practically, I have

597
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: a really really really strict list of unfollowing, or I'll

598
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: say that differently. I don't let myself unfollow people quickly,

599
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: which I think is kind of counter what a lot

600
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: of people will say, like, yes, protect your piece.

601
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: I guess like unfollow.

602
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: If that's where you're at right now and it's giving

603
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: you anxiety and you're spiraling and doom scrolling, maybe you're

604
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: in the you need to be.

605
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: Quicker to unfollow stage.

606
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: For me, I feel like there's also a real risk

607
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: in any time we disagree or feel uncomfortable or challenged

608
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: just unfollowing. So I try really hard to, in the

609
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: best of my ability sort of embody the way we

610
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: are supposed to commit to each other as believers, and

611
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: especially if someone is, you know, also a member of

612
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: the Body of Christ. I can't just cut them off

613
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: because I don't like what saying. So I try to

614
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 3: hold myself to a really high standard of not just

615
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 3: unfollowing every single person because they disagree with me, but

616
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: also limiting my time, limiting my scrolling, taking every single

617
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: thing back to the Lord, and saying like, can you

618
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: just help me process this because I am struggling to

619
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: not get too emotional.

620
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: About what everything. So there's a lot.

621
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: I think it was just intentional stewardship of it and

622
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: also accepting like this is probably not the fundamental, central

623
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: place for believers to impact the world. I think we

624
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: also need to be aware of that. I think it's

625
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: a tool. I don't think it often changes hearts and

626
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: minds and souls in the way that we would maybe

627
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: like to tell ourselves as content creators.

628
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: So there's a lot. I could talk about this for

629
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: a long time, but those are kind of it's.

630
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: A whole other conversation. You think about this because social

631
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: is it is present, and I make I allow myself

632
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: to be a part of I check my Instagram every

633
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: day just as you what's going on, and I'm posting

634
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: things too, so whatever, Ye're talking to people and I've

635
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: actually made friends there back in the day, you know,

636
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: we used to make friends. But yeah, it sounds like

637
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: what you're saying is it's a tool and we can

638
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: we can use it almost and we can use it

639
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: in a spiritual practice kind of way. Again using the

640
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: word discernment, discerning for ourselves. Where where am I right now?

641
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: And what can I do or what can I not do?

642
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: And make the decisions. So in a way, you're asking

643
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: us to be where and mindful of how we're using it,

644
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: what we're taking in. So it's no different than any

645
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: other generic thing about what we put in our eyeballs

646
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: and in our minds and our hearts.

647
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think it's it's just that self awareness

648
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: of what is this stirring in me? Is it stirring rage?

649
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: Is it stirring anxiety? Is it stirring comparison? And if

650
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: you don't have the self awareness to discern that, then

651
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: social media is probably not a super great thing for

652
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: you to spend a lot of time on if you

653
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: are maybe in a different place.

654
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: And I think I'm just I've been jaded for a

655
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: while because I've been on it for so long.

656
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 3: I've realized, oh, even when I'm right, you know, it's

657
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: like people just will unfollow because they it's an echo chamber.

658
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: So expecting it to be like a transformative presence in

659
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: the world, I think it's not that I don't think

660
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: it's possible. I just think it's much fewer and further between.

661
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 3: So again, it is a tool. You will reach some people.

662
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 3: You may have some really good conversations. It might be

663
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: something that God grows to give you access to other opportunities.

664
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: But I think we need to write size it big

665
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: time for all of us and fight back against whatever

666
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 3: knee jerk reaction it is because oftentimes I think that

667
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 3: is probably working against the spiritual formation that God is trying.

668
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: To do in us.

669
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: For sure, it's so easy for me to because I

670
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: have a lot of tools. I have a lot of

671
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: tools at my disposal. I am a spiritual director. I've

672
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: been in the spiritual formation stream for thirty years, and

673
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 2: I can get on Instagram and within ten seconds I

674
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: could be jealous, envious, angry, right there's like right there,

675
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I try to guard myself. I'm on

676
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 2: it far less now. But that may feel like attention

677
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: to some people that we talked about that, But I

678
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: did want to talk about that for a bit, just

679
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: because Whitney Lowe are part of your bio. I mean,

680
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: you are a Christian influencer, it says, so talk about

681
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: that second.

682
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't love that word, but I also they kind

683
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: of that's you know, that's what it is.

684
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: I guess, So well, let's do this. Then let me

685
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: let me wrap it up by by doing this, maybe

686
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: let's bring one last moment of help to people. So

687
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: let's say there's people listening and they love this idea

688
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: of God's love and pursuing and relentless love. But and

689
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: what if they're saying, you know, yeah, I'd love to

690
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: connect with God in this way, but maybe they don't

691
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: know what would be their next step. Is there some

692
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: encouragement or inspiration you can give them? What would they

693
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: do next if they wanted to receive God's pursuing love?

694
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: I think I think often it is so personal and

695
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: it is about sort of your life circumstances, and I

696
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 3: think God really honors as being willing to change things

697
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: in order to encounter him. So I think this isn't

698
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: even really the answer I was thinking I was going

699
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 3: to give by it. If there's something that you feel

700
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 3: like you've been holding on to as a lifeline or

701
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: a pattern in your life that you deep down know

702
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: is destructive, God isn't necessarily expecting you to fix that.

703
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: But I think God really honors the faith of saying

704
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to walk away from this thing because i

705
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: want to experience God. I'm going to stop stopping addictively

706
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 3: and spending all of my money to feel something. I'm

707
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: going to stop doing that because I want to create

708
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 3: space to experience God's love. I'm going to stop drinking

709
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: for a month whatever you've got in you to try

710
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 3: to experience God's love. And again, you will probably stumble,

711
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 3: you will probably fall, you will falter, You're going to

712
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 3: need other people at some point. But I think often

713
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: in those little decisions of I just want to create

714
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: a little space, you know, God takes a little and

715
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 3: multiplies it. God can do so much with those tiny,

716
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: tiny surrenders. So I would encourage people to look for

717
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: a tiny surrender if they want to experience God in

718
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: their life.

719
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: I would also say.

720
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 3: To really meditate on, you know, just if you're not

721
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 3: ready to like dig into Jose and Gohmer, meditate on

722
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: the story of the prodigal Son, because when you are

723
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 3: wandering away, when you are far, when you have insulted God,

724
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that's how you feel and you have use

725
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: resources in ways that we're wrong, you know, if you're

726
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: feeling stuck in that shame. I think the story of

727
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: the prodigal Son really sums up a lot of what

728
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 3: I'm trying to say, which is that when God sees

729
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 3: you coming, God is running to meet you. And I

730
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: think if we really meditate on that story, maybe as

731
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: kind of the starting point of digging back into a

732
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: relationship and closeness with the Lord, that's getting off on

733
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: the right foot, you know. And that's what it is,

734
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 3: right at the very beginning of the story is a

735
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: tiny surrender of the son saying my way did not work.

736
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: Maybe if I just go back to my father's house,

737
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: I'll be able to work and.

738
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: At least have food.

739
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 3: He doesn't expect to be received as a son, But

740
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 3: it's that tiny surrender of Okay, this did not work

741
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 3: at all, and I am not in a good spot,

742
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: and that little teeny thing is really what ultimately opened

743
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: up the riches and the abundance of his father's home

744
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: back to him. But you know, you do still have

745
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: the agency of just that little shift in your thinking,

746
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: and I think God can do so much with it.

747
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, it's another way of being with God in it. Yeah,

748
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: you're acknowledging that this is happening and remembering that God

749
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: and see you in it. And it's just I love

750
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: the word pivot or the word turn, just just turn. Yeah,

751
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: you know, I think those words are gentle and you

752
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: could just turn to God. And even if you don't

753
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: have enough courage right now to say I'm going to

754
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 2: stop this thing, you could say to God, I'm doing

755
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: this thing. Yeah, I'm doing this thing and I need

756
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: some help evidently, Well I think anyway, Yeah, if you

757
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: talk to anyone in alan On, that's one of the

758
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: first things is that you is you. You admit that

759
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: you're helpless, Yeah, in the situation that you can't overcome

760
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: it on your own. So just acknowledging that it's a

761
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: problem in God's presence, It's a beautiful first turn.

762
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Just the gentleness of giving God whatever you've got

763
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 3: and knowing that he will wrap you up in His

764
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: love even in that spot Like, Yeah, I think we

765
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 3: just put expectations of what life transformation is going to

766
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: look like or feel like, and it really is just

767
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: whatever little surrender you've got in you start with that

768
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: and see what God can do.

769
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good, so good. I think we could all

770
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: make our way to at least the type a quarter

771
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: of an inch? What's a quarter of an inach surrender

772
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: or turn today? Each one of us could probably do that.

773
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, amen, Well get this called back to who

774
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: you are, Whitney Low. You can get it now a

775
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: by the time it spairs, I'm sure the book is

776
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: going to be out because I think we've timed it

777
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: about that. So thank you so much, Whitney. What a

778
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: blessing to talk to you.

779
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Thanks Jim, and it's great to be with you.

780
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me on the Unread Living podcast.

781
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: You can download free resources and learn more about us

782
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: at Unhurried Living dot com, and please subscribe and share

783
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: this podcast with your friends and colleagues. We'd also like

784
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: to thank our partner Life Audio. Check out their other

785
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Blessings to you

786
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: as you make your way,