1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Life Audio. What if the deepest work of your spiritual 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: life isn't about collecting more information about God, but learning 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: to see everything with God's eyes. Many of us have 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: been formed to speak accurately about faith, to quote scripture well, 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: and to explain theology clearly. That's good, but along the 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: way we can sometimes lose touch with something more essential, 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: a living firsthand communion with the God we proclaim. Hello friends, 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: I'm Alan Faddling and you're listening to the Unhurried Living Podcast, 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: where we inspire you to rest deeper, live fuller, and 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: lead better. In today's episode, I want to explore the 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: difference between knowing about God and truly being with God, 12 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: between the voice of the scribe and the voice of 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: the prophet, and listen for an invitation into a deeper 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: interior life where ordinary life is seen through the eyes 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: of God. After a word from our sponsor, we'll begin. 16 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: If you're new to the podcast, Welcome. I'm glad you've 17 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: found us. If you haven't already, please subscribe and share 18 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: this podcast with your friends and colleagues. I've been on 19 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: a long journey of seeking to live in closer communion 20 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: with God most of my adult life. I bet many 21 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: of you listening could say the same thing. Today, I 22 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: want to say a few things about that quest and 23 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: about what I've been learning along the way. I've mentioned 24 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: here before that for the last four years or so, 25 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: I've been engaged in what I call a spiritual classics 26 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: study project. With help from scholar who are much more 27 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: knowledgeable than me, I've made my way through more than 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: twenty spiritual classics from throughout church history, to read slowly 29 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: and to seek to incorporate into my life and leadership. 30 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: More generally, I read books like this in a particular way. 31 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, I try to read them a little 32 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: more slowly than I sometimes read other sorts of books. 33 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: I try to read at the pace of receptive listening. 34 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: I read as a student, not a student sitting in 35 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: a classroom preparing for an end of semester test, but 36 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: a student learning an artisan way of life from a master. 37 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to learn spiritual wisdom as much as 38 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: I want to live wisely. Also, when I read, I'm 39 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: listening and watching for brief passages that capture my attention. 40 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: I listen for a sentence or a paragraph that has 41 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: marked Buchanan, a pastor and writer puts it in his 42 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: book Spiritual Rhythm, Sings, rings or stings. I capture it 43 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: for later reflection. I draw that quotation into my journal 44 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: and prayerfully respond to it. I'm watching for something I 45 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: can put into practice, some way I can live or 46 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: lead differently, some good thing I can learn to embody 47 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: so I can share it from my life with others 48 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: in the future. In that sense, I spend more time 49 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: these days preparing myself as a teacher than preparing talks 50 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: to give or sermons to preach. In this episode, I'm 51 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: going to share four such quotations from authors recent and 52 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: agent whose wisdom has guided my steps recently. First, here's 53 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: something beautiful I came across quite some time back in 54 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: aw Towzer's classic The Pursuit of God. In it, Tozar 55 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: is describing the difference between a scribe and a prophet. 56 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: He writes, the scribe tells us what he has read, 57 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: and the prophet tells us what he has seen. The 58 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: distinction is not an imaginary one between the scribe who 59 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: has read and the prophet who has seen. There is 60 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: a difference as wide as the sea. We are today 61 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: overrun with Orthodox scribes, but the prophets where are they. 62 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 1: The hard voice of the scribe often sounds over evangelicalism, 63 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: but the church waits for the tender voice of the 64 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: saint who has penetrated the veil and has gazed with 65 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: inward eye upon the wonder that God now. Tosar wrote 66 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: those words in nineteen forty eight. Can you feel the 67 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: difference between what Tozar calls a scribe and what he 68 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: calls a prophet. Jesus had little patience with the Jewish scribes, 69 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: who quoted each other as experts, but seemed unable to 70 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: speak with authority from their own lived encounter with God. 71 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: Scribes read about God, write about God, and talk about God. 72 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Prophets speak what they have heard from the living God. Scribes, 73 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: because they are not in touch with the God who 74 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: reveals himself to Moses as compassionate and gracious, well, they 75 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: often struggle to speak a word of compassion or grace. 76 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: What prophets bring us is the living voice of this God. Being. 77 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Ascribe is tempting because I can maintain the illusion of 78 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: control over my spiritual life that way, but there is 79 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: no controlling a life lived in communion with the Living God. 80 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: It is my longing to be a person who speaks 81 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: a living word from the living God. A more recent 82 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: prophetic voice is that of Eugene Peterson. Now, he wrote 83 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: a number of books meant to encourage pastors and Christian 84 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: leaders in this living way of relating to God, whether 85 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: or not he had read Tozar's words, or he and 86 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: Tozar just followed the same living God. He shares this 87 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: in his book The Contemplative Pastor. He says, I don't 88 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: want to dispense copied handouts that describe God's business. I 89 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: want to witness out of my own experience. I don't 90 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: want to live as a parasite on the first hand 91 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: spiritual life of others, but to be personally involved with 92 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: all my senses, tasting and seeing that the Lord is good. 93 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: Can you hear the sting of the prophet in what 94 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: Peterson says here? Ministry and service that comes alive must 95 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: be an expression of living communion with God. Excitement or 96 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: hype is thin, and its temporary vitality runs deep, and 97 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: it lasts. There's a great difference between sharing someone else's 98 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: exciting experience and sharing my own interactive relationship with God. Again, 99 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: it's the difference between being a scribe and being a prophet. 100 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: And find myself praying something like this, Grant Lord that 101 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: I might keep on seeking You, tasting your goodness and 102 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: contemplating you. May Grace make that possible for me all 103 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: the days of my life. And then may anything I say, 104 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: or write or do be enriched with that sort of 105 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: lived grace and trust. Now there's a third classic. This 106 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: one's a little bit older, and this is the spirit 107 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: I discern what Eugene Peterson has just said. When I 108 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: read spiritual classics, I try very hard not to read 109 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: such books like a parasite, as Peterson puts it, but 110 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: as someone hungry and seeking bread to eat. One spiritual 111 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: writer from my Spiritual Classics project is John of ruse Bok, 112 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: lived a couple generations before the imitation of Christ and 113 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: helped prepare the soil from which that book eventually grew. 114 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: Is quiet Christ centered teaching shaped a community called the 115 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: Brethren of the Common Life, reminding believers that deep faith 116 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: is formed not through hurry or through display, but through 117 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: steady attentiveness to God. Toward the beginning of one of 118 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: his classics, titled The Spiritual Espousals, he explained what he 119 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: was trying to do in this written work This is 120 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: what he says. We do not intend to speak here 121 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: of a person's initial conversion or of the graces which 122 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: were first bestowed when he turned from sin to virtue. Rather, 123 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,479 Speaker 1: we wish to speak of a day to day increase 124 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: in new gifts and new virtues, and of a present 125 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: daily coming of Christ, our bridegroom, into our soul. Let 126 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: me read that last little bit one more time. We 127 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: wish to speak of a day to day increase in 128 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: new gifts and new virtues, and of a present daily 129 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: coming of Christ, our bridegroom, into our soul. In that context, 130 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: Roosebrook speaks of the coming of Christ in three ways. 131 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: First is initial cominging in the incarnation, Second is daily 132 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: coming to our soul, and then finally is coming again 133 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: at the end of the ages. Jesus came, he continues 134 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: to come to us, and he will come again. This 135 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: biblical idea of Christ our bridegroom, is why this classic 136 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: work is called the Spiritual Espousal. It's roose Brooks way 137 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: of talking about an intimate, relational walk with Jesus, not 138 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: just believing in Christ, but learning to live in love 139 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: and communion with Him, where trust, surrender, and love mature 140 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: over time. As one of my mentors loved to say, 141 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: we are not only saved by grace, but we live 142 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: by grace day by day and moment to moment. We 143 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: are always in need of the generous, empowering and guiding 144 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: presence of God. God is always baking fresh bread in 145 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: the oven of our souls that we might share with 146 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: others to bless them. Finally, there's one more author I've 147 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: quoted on this podcast before who offers his own perspective 148 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: on what it's like to live in vital communion with 149 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: God in his grace in every moment. Thomas H. Green 150 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,359 Speaker 1: was a seasoned spiritual director whose writings have helped many Christians, 151 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: including me, understand seasons when prayer feels empty, not so 152 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: much as a failure, but as an expression of God's 153 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: deepening work. Green said this about the Gospel of John. 154 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: He said, it seems to me that this is one 155 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: of the central insights of Saint John's gospel. The interior 156 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: life is not a question of seeing extraordinary things, but 157 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: rather of seeing the ordinary things with the eyes of God. 158 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: John's Gospel of the Four is often described as the 159 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: most mystical well in the best sense of that word. 160 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: When Christians use the word mystical, they're not talking about 161 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: wild visions or spiritual fireworks. They're just naming a faith 162 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: that learns to see everyday life, work, or relationships, suffering 163 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: or joy in and through God's loving presence. So much 164 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: of the Gospel of John is devoted the teachings of 165 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: Jesus in the Upper Room, for example, in chapters thirteen 166 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: through seventeen, which include his extended prayer for Unity. In 167 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: that prayer, Jesus speaks of a mutual indwelling that he 168 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: prays for and invites us into, but it often feels 169 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: like few of us have embraced this invitation and entered 170 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: deeply into it. This interior life is not measured primarily 171 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: in profound spiritual experiences, or words or images received in prayer, 172 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: or any other dramatic happening in God's presence. It is, 173 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: as Green says it, learning to see every ordinary thing 174 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: through God's eyes. A deep rooted life in the spirit 175 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: enables us to see the creative, caring hand of God 176 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: in everything that surrounds us. God loves everything He's made, 177 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: God cares for everything in creation. God's love for everyone 178 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: and everything endures forever. So perhaps this is the quiet 179 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: invitation at the heart of all of these voices Tozer, Peterson, 180 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: roose Brook and Green not to despise learning or reading 181 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: or study, but to let these serve something deep. The 182 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: danger is not that we become scribes. We all begin there. 183 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: The danger is if we stop there. Scribes gather words. 184 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: Prophets are shaped by presence, speak accurately. Prophets speak truthfully. 185 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: Scribes report on God. Prophets bear witness to a God 186 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: they have met. And the good news is this. Prophets 187 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: are not born that way. They are formed over time, 188 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: in hidden places, through patient attentiveness, through prayer that often 189 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: feels ordinary, dry, or unremarkable. They are formed as we 190 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: learn to see ordinary life with the eyes of God. 191 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: This is the interior life Jesus invites us into. It's 192 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: not dramatic, it's not flashy, it's not hurried. It's a 193 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: life where Christ continues to come to us daily in grace, 194 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: A life where the Spirit trains our vision so that 195 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: what we once saw as mundane begins to shimmer with meaning. 196 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: I hope for myself and for you is not that 197 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: we would have more to say about God but that 198 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: we would become people who have truly been with God, 199 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: people whose words, when they are needed, carry the quiet 200 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: weight of lived grace. May we read well, may we 201 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: listen deeply, And may God in time make us more 202 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: than scribes. May He form us into people who speak 203 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: of who we have seen. Thank you for listening to 204 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: the Unhurry Living podcast. To learn more about us, visit 205 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: unhurryliving dot com. In the show notes, you'll find helpful 206 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: links and information about our partner Life Audio, and all 207 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: of their other faith centered podcasts