1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of Hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 3: biblical truth, and now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm Shanti Felton. 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 3: And I'm Jeff Feldon. 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: Parents, we all know the feeling of wanting to help 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: our kids and protect them from heartache. Like if you 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: have kids at home, how many times have you woken 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: them up in the morning when they slept through their 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: alarm so they wouldn't get another tardy slip at school? 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: Or maybe you brought their sports equipment back to school 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 2: because they forgot it again. But we also probably know 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: that this type of snowplow parenting may. 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Not be the best thing for them. 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: If you have ever wondered how to navigate this and 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: whether to allow your kids to experience the consequences of 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: their mistakes while also supporting them through it, then this 22 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: episode of I Wish You Could Hear This is for you. 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 3: I'm really excited to get talking about this because I 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: think lots of other parents can learn a few things. 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: About how not to snowplow parents. 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, because, of course, not not for us, of course not, 27 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 3: of course not. 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: Well, you're being very kind because I know that I'm 29 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: going to be the one that has to own this, 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: because that has been much. 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: More my thing than it has been yours. You do, 32 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: I absolutely. 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: So, so so to get everyone on the same page. 34 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 3: What is snowplow parents? 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: Okay, yes, So it's where you act like a snowplow 36 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: and you're kind of going ahead of your kids to 37 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: remove the obstacles in their path so they don't get hurt. 38 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: It's preventing problems, so like a snowplow pushes the snow. 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: Out of the way so you don't get stuck. 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So, like, for example, in one of our interviews, 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 2: one mom. 42 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: That I was talking to. 43 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: Her thing was she had a son who was new 44 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: on the high school football team. I think he was 45 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: a freshman, and the coach had made it really clear 46 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: that if a student forgot a certain type of equipment 47 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: for practice, and I can't remember what the equipment was, 48 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: but if you forgot it, you were going to be 49 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: benched for the actual Friday night game. And her son 50 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: was young, he was fourteen. He was sort of a 51 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: forgetful type, and you know, she didn't want him to 52 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: miss a game. So of course whenever he left his 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: bag at home, she would just pick it up and 54 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: bring it by the school. So that is an example 55 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: of your trying to prevent a problem. 56 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 3: So how is this different from helicopter parents? 57 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so similar idea. Both of these are trying to 58 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: like overly help your kids, probably rescuing, et cetera. Helicopter 59 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: parenting is more about the constant hovering and managing and 60 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: swooping in and rescuing a kid once a problem arises. 61 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: So snowplow parenting is like preventing the child from hitting 62 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: the problem to begin with. So that mom, for example, 63 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: is preventing the child from getting benched. A helicopter parent 64 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: would be more likely to swoop in after the coach says, hey, 65 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: you're going to be benched, and they may ask for 66 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: a meeting with a coach to talk them out of it. 67 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: It's but the idea is similar. They're very similar parenting 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: strategies at it. 69 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: So in this we're going to be mostly going to 70 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: we're mostly going to be talking to parents with kids 71 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: who are at home, yes, who aren't yet adults. 72 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: Correct. 73 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: I think it would be helpful to take a minute, though, 74 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: and fast forward a few years and share what could 75 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: be the natural consequence of snowplow parenting. 76 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: What happens a few years to help you. 77 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's been researched, so yeah, yeah, researchers have 78 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: seen some trends in slightly older kids, let's call them 79 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: the emerging adult children ages eighteen to the mid twenties. Okay, 80 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: so there was this New York Times poll in twenty 81 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: nineteen that found that three quarters of parents in the 82 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: pole made appointments like doctor's visits or haircuts for their 83 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: adult children. 84 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so everybody who is not watching this on YouTube 85 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: need to know that Jeff looked sideways at me. 86 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: I had doctor's visits. 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: I had a crik in my neck. 88 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: You had a crook in your neck. 89 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: Listen, I will I will acknowledge that I am Slash 90 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: was so guilty of this. So last year when I 91 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: was writing a blog on snowplow parenting, which ended up 92 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: like being picked up like by the Today Show and everything, 93 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: because this is such a common issue for so many 94 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: of us as parents. But when I was writing that 95 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: Snowplowing Snowplow blog, I realized I looked at that New 96 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: York Times poll and I went, oh, because you know 97 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: Luke our son, he has epilepsy. And I have been 98 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: and still was the main contact for the neurologist. It 99 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: was my email in there, my phone number. When he 100 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: needed a new appointment, I'm like, Oh, he's in college, 101 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: he's really busy. I'll just make the appointment for him. 102 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 2: And realizing okay, yeah, this is ridiculous. He was twenty 103 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: two years old. I should probably let him figure out how. 104 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: To do that. 105 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to just say something in defense of 106 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 3: you and of moms out there. Now, all right, I 107 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 3: might have had a difference of opinion with you as 108 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 3: he grew older. I cover many things, yes, and let's 109 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: say this the neurologist appointment. It's all of that. The 110 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 3: fact of the matter is I could have, from the 111 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: very beginning been the main source of contact for the neurologist. 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: I was all too happy to have you kind of 113 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: carry that one during those early years. And I think 114 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 3: there's a lot of dads out there who were all 115 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: too happy to let their wives, the moms carry some 116 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 3: of these things and then and then go roll your 117 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: eyes internally and go, you know, I do it this way. 118 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: He actually didn't. You had the chance and you were 119 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: you were Okay, thank you. So I just I mean, 120 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: as I'm hearing you say this, and I'm just thinking 121 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: that I need, I need to step up on that. 122 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, thank you. 123 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: I know all the moms out there appreciate it, and 124 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: hopefully the dads you know, also recognize this. 125 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: Okay, So thank you. 126 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. So let's look at another poll of parents who 127 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 3: had adult children age eighteen to thirty. 128 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: Four, so even older. Yeah. 129 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. Pew research found that fifty nine percent of parents 130 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 3: gave financial help in the last year, and six percent 131 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: of those parents said doing so hurt their own personal 132 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 3: financial situation at least somewhat. 133 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, also guilty. But that's I think that's a 134 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: little bit different. But it is the financial thing is 135 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: is there One of the top things that the Pew 136 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: poll found was that parents were mostly paying for things 137 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: like cell phone bills and streaming services. Again, guilty, our 138 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: daughter is still on our cell phone plan. 139 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 3: Now economically it makes sense. 140 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: It kind of makes sense. 141 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: It's cheaper for her and she now, to be fair, 142 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: she keeps offering to pay us for it. But I 143 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: can see how that ends up just continuing for many families. 144 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: But the problem is is it all adds up over 145 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: time to snowplow parenting. 146 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: So the issue appears to be that snowplow parenting when younger, 147 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 3: when the kids are younger, tends to live to kids 148 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: who are dependent on us when they're older. Am I 149 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:05,119 Speaker 3: getting that correct? 150 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: Yes, So that's what we're going to be. That's why 151 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: I wanted to do a podcast on this to kind of. 152 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: Tackle this a little bit. 153 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: Okay, good, good, So in. 154 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: The younger years we can think about how we have 155 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: a tendency towards this. 156 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: So let's go back to some of that earlier research 157 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: younger years. So, based on your research and four parents only, 158 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: you came up with several things that might help parents 159 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 3: to know about their kids to help stop snowpall parenting 160 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: trend maybe, And could you just give a quick overview 161 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: of that research. 162 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you mean like what we did, like how 163 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: we researched it. So over the course of oh my gosh, 164 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to help me remember this. It was 165 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: like five years, maybe over five years, we did three 166 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: three books books and. 167 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: Big surveys of teenagers and so in the end it 168 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: ended up being interviews and surveys with more than three 169 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: thousand teenagers and tweets means, and we learned a lot 170 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: about how they think that is really really relevant for 171 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: this snowplow parenting conversation. How they think about parents and 172 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: what they do and what they don't do and all 173 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And you should know, like we 174 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: were like, I mean you remember when we were doing this. 175 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: We were doing this with our friends Eric and Lisa Rice, 176 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: and like Lisa and I would take you know, paper 177 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: surveys just like short, like just a few questions and 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: go to a food court in the mall on a 179 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: Friday night or Saturday night and say hey when all yes, 180 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: there would be a lot of different places. We would 181 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: go to arcades, We would you know, you know, and 182 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: just basically say hey, I don't want to know your name, 183 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: I don't want to know anything about you. Here's a 184 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,599 Speaker 2: five dollars Starbucks gift card if you'd be willing to 185 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: fill this out and just answer a few questions, share 186 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: your heart for this research project, and this. 187 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: Was all you know, pre you didn't do the survey. 188 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: Then we do the National surveys, a. 189 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 3: Just scientifically designed right after that case. 190 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we found I don't know five six seven 191 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 2: things truths that are probably relevant for this snowplow thing. 192 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: So the first thing, just briefly, the first is not 193 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: going to be a surprise because it's basically it's really 194 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: obvious that the kids actually want to get to that 195 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: point of being completely independent, right, Like it's like a 196 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 2: young horse, it's like a cult, it's like trying to 197 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: run free, trying to get away from any constraints. But 198 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: that truth also means if they are going to get 199 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: to that independence, we have to let. 200 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: Them solve their own problems. Right. 201 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: If we solve the problem ahead of time, they're never 202 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: going to learn how to be independent in a you know, 203 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: any kind of meaningful way. There's a there's an old 204 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: saying that I love, which is the job of the 205 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: parent is to prepare the child for the road, instead 206 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: of preparing. 207 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: The road for the child. Wow. 208 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: And so that is like basically, the teens in the 209 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: for Parents' Only research, they were so motivated by freedom, 210 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: they were eager to jump onto that maybe difficult road, 211 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: even if they weren't always able to handle it perfectly. 212 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 3: Or entirely confident or well, they were. 213 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: Often over confident built their ability to handle it. But 214 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 2: either way, by definition, that means that they need to 215 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: be able to do things without us. So there's gonna 216 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: be bumps and bruises, and so the key is how 217 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: do we not help them navigate those bumps without clearing 218 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: them out ahead of time? 219 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 3: Does this vary between boys and girls? 220 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, actually did a bit. I mean, everybody wanted independence, 221 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: but for those of us who are the moms of boys, 222 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: we found in the research we have to be especially 223 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: attuned to this because teenage boys especially have this particularly 224 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: strong need to feel trusted to solve their own problems. 225 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,359 Speaker 1: Get yeah, I mean this obviously. 226 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: Matters to girls too, sure, but you get it as as. 227 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: A guy, a teenage guy. 228 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, And as a grown up guy you still want 229 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 3: to feel like you can figure these things out well. 230 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: And so we basically what we found is that that 231 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: is in there even in the teenage boys. Obviously, they 232 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: want to feel significant, they want to feel competent, like 233 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: somebody looks up to them, and so let's just say, 234 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 2: if you know your son is being bullied at school, 235 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: if you, as a mom or a dad, russian to 236 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: try to solve the problem in handling a bully, He's 237 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: not going to feel oh, thank you so much. He 238 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: may actually feel power less, and you may see like 239 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: a sullen attitude, withdrawn attitude because he's feeling incapable. Now, 240 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: obviously you don't, you don't let like dangerous situations keep going. 241 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: But I can remember a few times that you were like, 242 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: let Luke handle it on his own, you know, if 243 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: there were some guys are being obnoxious to him. I 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 2: can remember you saying he needs to, at least at 245 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: the beginning, let him figure it out, right. 246 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: Right, There's there's a story that we tell that probably 247 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 3: is not this is not parenting advice one on one, 248 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: but it is one of the things in our I have. 249 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: No idea what you're going to remember when. 250 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 3: He was being bullied at the camp, No, and he 251 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 3: was the summer camp, and he you know, was just 252 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: really he became sullen and and I wasn't there because 253 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: it was out of state. He was up at your 254 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: folks yep, and you know, he called and you told 255 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: me about it, and I got him on the phone 256 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: and I said to him, look, buddy, I've I've heard 257 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: about the kid who's been you know, kind of yes, 258 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: And so I said, I just want you to know 259 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: you have my permission if he pushes you to be 260 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: able to defend yourself, and if you have to hit him, 261 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: hit him with everything you've got, because you're gonna get 262 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 3: in trouble whether you hit him soft or hit him hard, 263 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: So give it your best shot. And again, I'm not 264 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: advocating violence between kids, but you told me that. That 265 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: next day he walked out to the camp, whereas before 266 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: he didn't want to go, he went with a bit 267 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: more of a kind of a bounce in his step. 268 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: And then he told you that the kid had called 269 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: him or did something that that I don't know, very 270 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 3: inappropriated him or whatever. And he forcefully said stop it 271 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: and looked him in the eye. And from that point 272 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: on they became good buddies, and they were hung out 273 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: all the rest of the summer. 274 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: Boys. 275 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: But and he didn't need to hit him, so but 276 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 3: didn't have to go through. Once he felt that he 277 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: had permission to kind of stand had it on his own, 278 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: he wouldn't be punished necessarily. 279 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's it. 280 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: I had totally forgotten about that story. 281 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 3: Again, that's that's that's not one that we write down 282 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: in the books. Here's here's the advice that you should do. 283 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: It's one that worked in our case. 284 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: But he just stood up. 285 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: He had permission to. 286 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but that's the thing. 287 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: I think we often don't realize how important that is. Okay, 288 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: So let's go into the next one. 289 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: Okay, truth too. So we have to let our kids 290 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: make mistakes, but let's do it when the stakes are low. 291 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: So none of us wants to see our kids get 292 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 3: a zero on a late assignment or get a speeding ticket. 293 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 3: But if the grade is bad, or if they have 294 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: to pay the fine and then the car insurance spike 295 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 3: because of that speeding ticket, they could necessary it could 296 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 3: build their resilience muscles. So a little bit of pain 297 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: when the stakes are low helps them learn and grow. 298 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 3: In fact, if you think about it, there is no 299 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: way to build those muscles other than using them. 300 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah that's okay. 301 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: So now here is where it starts getting like right, Like, 302 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: I know that you have to use the muscles in 303 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: order the you know, try this in order to like 304 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: build that sense that I can do it. And that's 305 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: really key, because if you don't get a chance to 306 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: fail and figure it out and maybe try it again, 307 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: you're not going to build a sense of confidence that 308 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: you can handle things. Like in the buzz speak of 309 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: the day, the kids aren't building a sense of agency right, 310 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: like they're not. They kind of feel like they're at 311 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: the mercy of whatever happens in the world, and it's 312 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 2: kind of confusing. Actually, researchers have looked at this. This 313 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 2: is pretty like when I think of myself as you know, 314 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: again guilty of having been some snowplow parenting for many years. 315 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: Researchers have looked. 316 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: At the consequence of this and found that those kids 317 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: who have been snowplow parented, they're more likely to give 318 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: up more easily, and they don't develop they have poor 319 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 2: problem solving skills because they never developed them to begin with. 320 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: And even I did a whole blog a couple of 321 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: years ago and learned helplessness, Like there's this sort of 322 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 2: feeling of, look, I'm not even going to try. 323 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: And so they don't. 324 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: A lot of times the kids don't even get to 325 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: the point where they fail because I don't even try 326 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: to begin with. So all of those things are kind 327 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: of another natural consequence of So. 328 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 3: What we're saying is that if we're going to get 329 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 3: them to try and be okay with failure, we have 330 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 3: to make sure that they know it's okay to fail. 331 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: I recently heard of a family that has something called 332 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 3: a mistake Monday routine. So at dinner time, they talk 333 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 3: about the mistakes they made the previous week. They remind 334 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 3: each other by doing that that it's okay to fail, 335 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: and they emphasize having grace with themselves and with each other. 336 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 3: I like that a lot. 337 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: I really like that a lot. 338 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 2: I mean, especially because the kids are hearing the parents 339 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: talking about their mistakes. 340 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, so truth number three next. 341 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 2: So let's those are the two truths about kind of 342 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: the consequences. You know, the kids want to be independent, 343 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: but there's there are consequences if they don't learn how. 344 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: To problem solve, Okay. 345 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: Truth number three is a jog over to the side 346 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: a little bit where this is more for us to 347 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 2: think about one of the reasons why we snowplaw parent, 348 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: and it's something that a lot of us probably may 349 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 2: not have grappled with that this is a real thing. 350 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: We may have to come to groups that one of 351 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: the reasons that we do these things for our kids 352 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: is because it's quicker for us. 353 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: It's more efficient for. 354 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: Us, because you know, parenting can it can be like annoying, 355 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: like and this is so me, Like so me if 356 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: I am in a hurry, which I often am because 357 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: I'm overscheduled. And this is back you know, when the 358 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: kids were little, they were overscheduled, like all of us were. 359 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: It is easier just to remove the potential problem from 360 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 2: our child's path, so doesn't slow us down, Like it 361 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: is quicker, like I can remember how many times you 362 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: and Luke or I think this happened a few times 363 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: with Morgan, but this is probably more a Luke thing 364 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: where you, guys, maybe you and he would work on 365 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: like a science project or something, and then he would 366 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 2: leave his binder at home, like like it drove me nuts. 367 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 2: It was way quicker for me just to like, I'm 368 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: just going to drive it down to the school, the 369 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: binder down to the school, rather than okay, hey. 370 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 3: Let him get there and find out what he. 371 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 2: Did, and find out what he did and then have 372 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: the school ask for Hey, you know, mister missus Felton, 373 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: can we have a parent teacher conference about how he 374 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: needs to be more organized? Like, it's just so much 375 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: quicker to remove the obstacle for my sake, which is 376 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 2: not good for him. It's kind of the same thing. 377 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds silly, but it's kind of the 378 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: same thing of when our kids were little. I mean, 379 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: we knew it was going to take extra time for 380 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: them to learn to tie their own shoelaces, but we 381 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: knew they had to learn how to tie their own shoelaces, like, 382 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: so we allowed the extra ten minutes and forced ourselves. 383 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: To just wait. 384 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 2: Well, they fumbled it right with it because we knew 385 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: that I had to learn how to do it. And 386 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: it's the same thing for them to learn how to 387 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 2: do the equivalent of that as an older kid is 388 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: going to be better for them in the end, but 389 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: it means we need to add. 390 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: In more margins. 391 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: Though. I will say that the opportunities I have of 392 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: tying my shoelaces these days really aren't that many. I 393 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 3: just slip into shoes nowadays. 394 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, exactly. 395 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: Okay, So truth number four of all of these this 396 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: is sort of the big The big one here is 397 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: basically what we saw in the research of the teens 398 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: and tweens and what they're thinking and what they want 399 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: from us and what the research has found. Instead of 400 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: snow plowing. 401 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: In front of them, okay. 402 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 2: We have to walk parallel to them, like on a 403 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 2: parallel road. They have to be on their own road 404 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: and there's gonna be obstacles in their path and us 405 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: on our parallel road. We can say, hey, honey, I 406 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: see this obstacle in your way. But if they trip 407 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: over it anyway, if they maybe they don't listen or 408 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,479 Speaker 2: maybe they didn't understand or whatever it was, they're gonna 409 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: trip over things that we saw coming and that they dismissed. 410 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: For example. 411 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: Avoid this means we need to do things like avoiding 412 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: the urge to wake our kid up for school every 413 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: morning in time, and you know, because they're going to 414 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 2: get detention if they're late again. Like, it's way better 415 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: if we think about it, for them to learn that 416 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 2: lesson of about being late for school rather than being 417 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: late for a job interview, Right. 418 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: I mean are low? Yeah? No, I get that. 419 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: This is for me. 420 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 2: This is one that I am actually I should have 421 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: been better with my kids, with our kids because of 422 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 2: what my dad did. Do you remember me telling you 423 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: the story of what my dad did with my alarm clock? 424 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: Oh? 425 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, tell that, Okay, okay. 426 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: So this was like I was horrible as a teenager. 427 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 2: I was horrible about sleeping in, hitting the snooze over 428 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: and over. This is back in the day when you 429 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: had an actual alarm clock instead of a phone. 430 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: And so I would hit this news, hit the snows, 431 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: hit the snooze. 432 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: And my mom, my sweet mom, who will do anything 433 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: for us. She was a stay at home mom, and 434 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: by the time we were teenagers, I think she was 435 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: already a nurse, so she was busy. But still she 436 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: was just awesome and she would do anything for us. 437 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: And that included if I'd hit the snooze one too 438 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 2: many times, she would drive us to school because we 439 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: were going to be late. And so at one point, 440 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: and my dad often traveled internationally, so. 441 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: He wasn't home. 442 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: And at one point he had been gone because he 443 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: was often gone, you know, for you know, a month 444 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 2: or more at a time, it maybe that particular month 445 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: had gotten particularly bad. And he comes home and he's like, 446 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: she is sleeping in again, and. 447 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: Why are you driving her to school? And you know whatever. 448 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 2: So the next morning, I can still remember this plain 449 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: as day. I must have been in rem sleep because 450 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 2: I was so disoriented. The alarm rang and I reached 451 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: over it kind of subconsciously to hit it, and it 452 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: wasn't there. And the noise was so loud because he 453 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: had turned it up, turned up the volume, and it 454 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: was ringing so loudly, and I was so disoriented, and 455 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm like sitting up at bedguing what what hah hah. 456 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: And he had snuck into my room in the middle 457 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: of the night and put the alarm clock across the room. 458 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 3: And well done. 459 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 2: Dad turned the volume so far up in order to 460 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: like make the point of you need to be doing 461 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: this yourself. This isn't something that it should be your 462 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 2: mom's responsibility. 463 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: You know, this is your job. 464 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: So anyway, but at that point, from that point I 465 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: did it. From that point on, I had the alarm 466 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: across the room. I was never late to school again. 467 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 3: Okay, So yes, I learned. So I get what we're 468 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 3: saying here, But what if the kid hasn't quite figured 469 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 3: out how to navigate an intimidating obstacle. 470 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: Something bigger than being late for school. 471 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm thinking of when Morgan was working a 472 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: summer job and she was scheduled for a weekend that 473 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 3: she had really wanted to do something with a friend, 474 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 3: and I think she had even told the manager that 475 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: she needed it off. And so here she was maybe 476 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: sixteen years old, and she just didn't have the skills 477 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: to address it with the manager on her own. 478 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, at least I didn't. We didn't think she did. 479 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 2: I mean for me, as again, I was snowplop parenting 480 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: and it wasn't even called that then, but it was 481 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: so tempting for us to offer to go in at 482 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: the end of shift with her and talk to the 483 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: scheduler for her. And I was saying, I wonder if 484 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: we should do that, and you were like, uh no, 485 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: I mean you basically said, you know, we have to 486 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: let her do it. And so you did what was 487 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: way better, which is said, you know what, let's help 488 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 2: her get the skills to be able to do this. 489 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 2: Let's role play that conversation again using the language. 490 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: You're simart guy. 491 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean seriously, but you were basically 492 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: using the You weren't using the terms that we're using 493 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 2: here today, but you stayed on a parallel road and 494 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: you were there to give wisdom and like help. But 495 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 2: she's still on her road and you don't jump on it. 496 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 3: And I think the thing that's important is that sometimes 497 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: these things just don't work the way you want them to. 498 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 3: And I kid may fumble and feel and embarrassed and 499 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: may end up even with the worst schedule. If the 500 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 3: boss is a jerk. You know that stuff happens because 501 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 3: art of life. So in any event, it's always best 502 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: to give them practice at these things when the stakes 503 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 3: are law. 504 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and it also gives Here's the thing that when 505 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: we were talking to the kids they recognize this as well. 506 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: Is it also positions them later to think, oh, I've 507 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 2: done this before, right, I know what to expect. Like 508 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: that wasn't very fun, the boss is a jerk, whatever, 509 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: But I've done this before. I know what this feels like. 510 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: And so they act again. They wanted that independence. Now 511 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: again I'm here, I'm sounding like I'm good at letting 512 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 2: a kid do this, and I really wasn't good at 513 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 2: letting them fumble when they were young, because I wanted 514 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: to prevent the heartaches. The reality though, for any snowball parent, 515 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: if I could just speak from one to another, is 516 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 2: to recognize we're not actually preventing the heartaches. Yeah, all 517 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: I'm doing is I'm postponing the heartaches until down the 518 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 2: road when the stakes are way higher and I'm going 519 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: to be unable to help. 520 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 3: So so here's kind of another thought. So let's say 521 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 3: that we're walking parallel with their kid, and then what 522 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: happens when we see the obstacle and it's not just 523 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 3: some small sort of obstacle, but it could become a. 524 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: Cliff something pretty signal. 525 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so what's the advice to the parents kind 526 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 3: of in that. 527 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: Case, because you're not saying if it's going to be 528 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: something dangerous or something really destructive, we're not saying you 529 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: should never rescue a child. I mean, think about like 530 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 2: in the Bible, right when Peter stepped out on the water, 531 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: and you know, he was he was being brave, right, 532 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 2: he was, he was trying size his faith whatever. But 533 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: then once he actually began to fall, Jesus it said 534 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: lifted him back up, like I. 535 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 3: Think it says. I think the word immediate immediately. 536 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: And so that leads to something else that Okay, so 537 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: I think it's our last truth for today. 538 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: I think we're going to be out of talking. 539 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 2: Here is and this is a big, big deal. This 540 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: is We saw this in the interviews so strongly with 541 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 2: the teenagers. When the kids make the mistakes, because they're 542 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: going to make the mistakes right, we need to reassure 543 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: them of our love and support, like when the big 544 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: thing happens, when the cliff is there, when there's the 545 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: real big issue. 546 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: They need far. 547 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: More than what they need is are oh so efficient 548 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 2: snow plowing skills. They need our absolute unconditional love and support. 549 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean our approval, you know, doesn't mean that 550 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 2: they did everything right, because they won't have by definition 551 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 2: in this situation. But they need to know that we 552 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: are going to support them and we love them through everything. 553 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: This was one of the most serious significant things we 554 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: found in the surveys and the interviews is just how much, 555 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: just how easily kids don't feel supported when they mess up, 556 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: and if they don't regularly, If they mess up and 557 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 2: they don't feel supported in a kind of a regular fashion, 558 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: it kind of leads them to close off their hearts 559 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: like they were building walls. 560 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: So at let's just say, you know, if your son 561 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 3: didn't study enough or practice enough, any fails his driving test, 562 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 3: to say still, I believe in you son, without mentioning 563 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 3: I told you to practice more. So by telling him 564 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: that you believe in him, you can restore that confidence. Yeah, 565 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 3: and you know, get rid of that, you know, insecurity, 566 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 3: that that narrative that comes so readily to those kids 567 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 3: that he's dumb. No, he's not dumb. He just realizes 568 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: he didn't practice enough and he just needs to do 569 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 3: better the next time. 570 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: Well, and he's also not dumb because he knows he 571 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: didn't practice enough, you know, like he it's not like 572 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: you need to tell him, but he knows you said 573 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 2: to practice more. Rights. It's basically that that starting point 574 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: of I believe in you is so big and if 575 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: it's something even more serious, this is when the kids 576 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: were so clear about what they needed, like emotionally from 577 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: their parents. If it was even more significant situation, that's 578 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: when if they're encountering some sort of big consequence, this 579 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: is the cliff, right, This is the situation. That's when 580 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: they needed us and wanted us to step up onto 581 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: the path, take their hand and say I am going 582 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: to walk beside you through every single step here, and. 583 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 3: I'm not going to change the steps that we have to. 584 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: Go through, but I'm going to be with you because 585 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: I love you, I believe in you, and I. 586 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: Love you unconditionally. Let me give you an example. 587 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: Because I think that it's helpful here. So Lisa and 588 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 2: I one Friday night, we were at an arcade interviewing kids. 589 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: There was a group of kids. 590 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: That were in there from a birthday party, a group 591 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 2: of teenagers, and we were talking to this one young 592 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 2: man who's probably seventeen years old, and he was a 593 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: big kid. He looked like a football player, you know, 594 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: six foot two, just big, and he described a situation 595 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: when we were talking about this concept he had described. 596 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: He's like, look, I'm not proud of it, but this 597 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: had just happened, you know, a few weeks before where 598 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: they had been at a party, and at a big 599 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: party where there were drugs and alcohol that were there, 600 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: and they ended up getting raided. The cops ended up coming, 601 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: a bunch of people, including him, ended up getting arrested. 602 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 2: And there was a lot that was going to come 603 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: from this. There was there was going to have to 604 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: be court visits and you know, his dad had to 605 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: come to the jail to pick him up, and you know, 606 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 2: he was feeling kind of defensive, and he was feeling 607 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: like a failure, right because this wasn't how his parents 608 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 2: had raised him. And even though his dad was angry, 609 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 2: he said, his dad handled it in a way that 610 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: changed everything. His dad came to the jail to pick 611 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: him up and he said, okay, look, you know, he 612 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 2: was angry. He was like, this is going to involve 613 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: probably some pretty hard consequences. You're going to need to 614 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: go to court, this is probably going to be on 615 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: your record. You're probably gonna have to do community service. 616 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: There's gonna be some things that come from this. But 617 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: I want you to know I love you, I believe 618 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 2: in you, and I'm gonna be here for you every 619 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: step of the way. 620 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with you to court. 621 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to go with you if you need to 622 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: talk to whoever it is about what the community services. 623 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: I will be with you through this. This big teenage boy, 624 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 2: this big, kind of stoic looking kid, he started tearing 625 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: up as he was telling us this. He's like, literally 626 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 2: his eyes are getting red, and Candid Lee I had. 627 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: Started teering up listening to him. I think Lisa was too. 628 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: But that is what our teenagers need from us, Like 629 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 2: they are going to make mistakes and they know they 630 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: have to know that we're not going to rescue them. 631 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 2: They're going to walk out those consequences. But they also 632 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: need to know that we are going to be with 633 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: them through all those consequences. In their way of thinking, 634 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: that is what speaks unconditional love. 635 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: Wow. 636 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 3: I mean obviously that's what we want from our heavenly father. Yeah. 637 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 3: When we mess up and we all do you know, 638 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 3: obviously i'd love him to just fix it and make 639 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 3: it as if it didn't happen. 640 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: That's what we all want, absolutely, Yeah, But. 641 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 3: Honestly, I just knowing that he's there walking with us. 642 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 643 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 3: So I guess in the end, snow plowing obstacles out 644 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 3: of our kids' ways just may cause them to be 645 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 3: worried that they can't solve problems, while letting them tackle 646 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 3: those obstacles will help them build their own confidence and resilience. 647 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a good way to end. 648 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 2: We always say let's end with our one big thing. 649 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 2: I think that's our one big thing, right, Like letting 650 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: them tackle those things, make the mistakes, walking parallel to 651 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 2: them and then step in up on the road for 652 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: the big things and walking beside them is probably a 653 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: pretty good starting point. Even though, like I said, it's hard. 654 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 2: I didn't do this all the time, so just I 655 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 2: think one of the key takeaways is let's not be 656 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 2: afraid of that, because that's the way God designed it. 657 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: So if you, I hope all this was helpful to 658 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 2: any parent. 659 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: With kids at home. 660 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 2: If you are not a subscriber to our podcast, please subscribe, 661 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 2: And if you think others would benefit. If you know 662 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 2: other parents that are dealing with us, especially other moms 663 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 2: who have this tendency, please share today's episode with them 664 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 2: and tag us on all your social media channels. Thanks 665 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: for listening to I wish you could hear this. Remember 666 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 2: to subscribe to our podcast, and as always, forward today's 667 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: audio or video link to a friend, counselor, or pastor 668 00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 2: who would be encouraged. I just want to take a 669 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 2: second to thank the team at Life Audio for their 670 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 2: partnership with us on the podcast. If you go to 671 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 2: lifeaudio dot com, you will find dozens of other faith 672 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows about prayer, 673 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 2: Bible study, parenting, and more.