WEBVTT - Saved from Sobriety: Brett Smith's Warning About AA, 12 Steps, and Sobriety Worship 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:03.640 Life Audio. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.440 I went from being like AA's biggest fan, all in 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.760 on AA, like poster boy love AA can't get enough 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:17.160 of AA. I went from that place to the more 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.239 and more I read the Bible, the more and more 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.560 I sat under faithful preaching. I'm starting to have the 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.360 Word of God coming alive to me, and it's so 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:33.400 clearly saying things that are in total conflict with what 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:49.800 I am believing and teaching other people in AA. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.440 Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.840 Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seitel. This is 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:04.240 your home for real story, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.240 In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.520 the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.200 also a place of hope and healing. I know that 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.640 firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic, not 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.200 the other way around. Today, I've found sobriety after decades 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:30.680 of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I've found Jesus. 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.880 My prayer is that as I interview people just like 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.360 you and just like me, along with professionals in the 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.280 fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.039 You will find. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.039 The peace that is available to you through Christ on 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.320 the other side of whatever you're going through and whatever 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.680 addiction that might be, because let's face it, we're all addicted 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.800 to something so welcome. Let's get radically vulnerable as we 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.880 explore what it looks like to be on this journey 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:08.560 of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back after this. What 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:10.920 does it profit a man to gain the whole world 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.360 but lose his soul? It's a very famous scripture in 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:20.440 the Bible, and today's guest that scripture plays prominently in 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.520 his life, and you could almost alter it a little bit, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.160 not to be heretical, but applying it to addiction and 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.840 his story, it sounded like this, what does it profit 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:40.080 me to gain sobriety but lose my soul? Today's guest 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.960 is Brett Smith. Brett is a good friend. I've known 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.080 him for years, and he has a story of addiction 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.080 that like, in one instance, it's like, it's in a 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.320 sense of your classic story, right, it's I dove headlong 0:02:55.480 --> 0:03:00.160 into drinking in college, was the party guy like alcohol, 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.639 tried to quit, did quit for a little bit, went 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:09.400 right back to it. But then Brett's story is that 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:15.080 he really dove headlong into Alcoholics Anonymous and became like 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:21.000 the poster boy, the poster child if you will, for AA. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:25.280 Those are his words. And as he was doing that, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.320 as he was like you know, sponsoring and setting up 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.880 and taking the message and doing all the things, he 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:38.200 started to realize, after sitting under what he calls faithful 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.400 preaching and searching the scriptures, that something was off, something 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:46.080 was missing. And as he did all that, he realized, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.720 oh my gosh, like I have made an idol out 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.520 of sobriety, Like I am worshiping sobriety. It's become this 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.200 like works based religious system for me that if I 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.320 just show up to an meetings, if I just do this, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.120 if I just do that, then I'm good. And he 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.080 realized he was missing the true gospel. And so he's 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.680 going to talk about that today. He's also going to 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.080 talk about AA. He's going to talk about Alcoholics Anonymous 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:18.080 and programs in the twelve Steps, and he's going to 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.120 be honest about, you know, where those things led him. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.840 And he's even going to talk about in a sense, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:30.440 the false gospel that he feels like he that he 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.800 embraced as a result of those for so long, and 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:40.799 so I ask him some really important questions. He answers 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:45.640 them with grace and compassion, And so I think this 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.599 is a really important episode for a variety of reasons 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.719 and for a variety of people, but especially those who 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.520 either really are involved in AA and twelve step culture. 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.960 I think it might give you a perspective that is important, 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.280 or those who have just never felt really attracted to 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.920 the AA or twelve step culture, that's me, I think 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.200 it will be helpful. I'm not categorically against AA. Brett 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.479 and I talk about that, we talk about the place 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.960 that it can serve, but in the end, we always 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:26.000 prefer and push, if you will, a gospel centered recovery approach, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.440 and so Brett will talk about what that means, what 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.840 that looks like, and just kind of where this all 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.520 fits in. And so I'm just so grateful and so 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.280 thankful for his candor and his story and his boldness 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:44.520 here real quickly, if you head over to Veritasrecovery dot org, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.760 you can see a variety of other resources that I 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.960 have put together. That is the nonprofit that I have started. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:53.280 Would love for you to check that out. And you 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.159 can also go to Christianlcoholic dot com to grab my 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:01.800 book as well as get the the U Verse Bible 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:06.599 app Bible study that's based on those principles. So felt 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:11.880 further Ado Brett Smith Brett, thank you so much for 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.760 joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. This has 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.000 been a long time coming because we actually at a 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.080 little look behind the curtain. We've actually recorded a full episode, 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.720 and I think both of us after and I have 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.600 only re recorded I think one or two other episodes 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.080 and that was because either like the file was corrupt 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:34.839 or whatever. But you and I both after we sat 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.680 with the episode for a while, we just felt like 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.360 we could have said more, or we should have said 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.080 something differently, or I don't know, we just both felt 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.400 that way. And so this is actually our second attempt 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.960 at recording it. And if people are hearing this, that 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.760 means the attempt went well. And so I'm excited because 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.160 you have been such a help in my life as 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.400 I have approached you know, what we call gospel senate recovery. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.320 And it's not like a new term. It's not something 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.599 that you know came up with, but it's an idea 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.800 that's not really popular as some might think, even in 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.080 the Christian community. And so we're going to talk about that. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.840 But first of all, before we get into your full 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.960 on story, and you know, what I said in the 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.120 intro is the concept of being saved from sobriety, which 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.840 is kind of a really catchy and interesting title. Tell 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.120 us a little bit about yourself. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.880 Yeah, so I'm forty one years old. I live in Louisville, Kentucky. 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.160 I am a member at Third Avenue Baptist Church. I've 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:46.320 been doing heavy civil construction estimating project management for about 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.320 twenty years now. So I live in Louisville. I work 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:55.200 remotely for a heavy civil contractor in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.640 I also am involved in the Chicago Course on Preaching 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.560 the Charles Simeon Trust, which is a parachurch ministry that 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:10.600 trains men and women to preach, teach expositionally and essentially 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.679 like preach the word uh exege eat it faithfully, preach 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.440 it faithfully, apply it faithfully. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.080 And so yeah, that's kind of a snapshot. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:28.000 Yeah, single, ladies, he's single, Yeah, very single, very very single. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.560 But and I say that because because Brett and I 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:33.559 have joked about that for years. 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:35.520 Yeah, it's all good, so. 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.319 Brett. Before we get into kind of what I think 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:45.800 are some very important thoughts and distinctions and things that 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.400 set gospel recovery apart from secular recovery, why don't you 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.800 tell us your story, because you have a story of alcoholism. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.640 You have a story of what it looks like to 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.520 get sober but then to still be in a sense 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.280 miserable or still be missing something, and that led you 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.160 into gospel sin and recovery. So take us through, first 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.120 of all, your story of alcoholism. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:15.199 Yeah, it's cool too. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.440 I'm looking at the date here at the bottom right 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.760 of my computer screen. So we're having this conversation right 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:26.840 now on January twenty six, twenty twenty six, Lord Willing, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.600 this Friday, January thirtieth will be five thousand days of 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.160 sobriety from alcohol for me. So my sobriety day, by 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.440 the grace of God, is May twenty fourth of twenty twelve, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.640 and so again this Friday is five thousand days since then, 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.360 I think a little over thirteen and a half years or. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:49.560 Something like that. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.160 So it's cool, just the grace of God to even 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.360 be able to have this conversation. If you would have said, Hey, 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.480 at some point, you'll approach five thousand days of not 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.440 taking a sip of alcohol. I would have thought you 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.320 were crazy because I could not imagine a day or 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.080 a week without alcohol, and so yeah, kind of the 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:10.960 flyover version. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.280 I grew up Catholic. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.480 We were at church pretty much every Sunday, and a 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.160 lot of great things in our home. They're also like, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.440 outside of my dad working full time, he was a 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.760 rodeo cowboy, so there was that work hard, play hard mentality, 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.480 and I think from a really early age I liked that. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:38.440 I liked like this lifestyle of the drinking, the womanizing 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.760 and so like. Even as a little kid, like eight nine, 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.640 ten years old, I wanted to be able to like 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.280 take SIPs off of my dad and his friend's beers. 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.800 I wanted to be able to drink a wine cooler. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.400 And then, especially as I got into high school, if 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.800 my dad and his friends were having people over and 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.080 they were drinking, I wanted to figure out, like how 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.040 could I sneak some alcohol or maybe even try to 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.960 take advantage of the adults once they had been drinking 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.880 to where they're just letting my friends and I drink 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.840 with reckless abandon and so I would just say from 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.480 a young age, I was drawn to it. I wanted 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:23.440 to indulge in it, and in high school, for the 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.600 most part, I didn't. My dad was pretty protective of 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.520 us in the sense that like, couldn't go stay the 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.800 night at people's houses if the parents weren't going to 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.719 be there. And so a lot of my friends in 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.679 high school were partying pretty consistently. For me, it was 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.520 more just kind of here and there. So I ended 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.560 up getting a full ride academic scholarship to Arizona State 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:53.559 University for construction management, and I as I started at 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.840 Arizona State University, just went off the deep end immediately. So, 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.559 like all of the stuff that I want to do 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.440 in high school, now I'm living on campus at what 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.640 was one of the top party schools. I'm sure it 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.520 still is, but like it was notorious back then for 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.720 like ASU is where you go if you just want 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.400 to go wild. And so I'm like seventeen years old, 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.800 a freshman at Arizona State University living in the Quadrangles, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.480 like one of the main apartment complexes on campus, and 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.319 it's known for partying, and dude, I just went wild. 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.080 Like I wasn't even showing up to some of my classes, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.920 like did not care about anything. I was able to 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.440 do whatever I wanted. I had a fake ID that 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:48.880 scanned and essentially just was like a shaken bottle. Now 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.720 the top has come off and it's just going wild. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.319 So really, my life from like that point seventeen, starting 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.960 at Arizona State University up until twenty seven when I 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.600 got sober, it was ten years of work hard, play hard, 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:10.000 and for me, the drinking for the most part, was 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.680 a weekend thing. So maybe it was thirsty Thursdays, like 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.520 we'd go party on Thursday night, show up hungover to 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.240 work on Friday, for sure, party Friday night, party Saturday, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.240 maybe sometimes on Sunday. But for the most part, it 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.760 was just a weekend or a long weekend thing. Now 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:32.080 I avoided so many consequences. I did get one DUI. 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.480 I easily could have got dozens of duys. It's literally 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.360 a miracle that I didn't hurt someone else or hurt 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.720 myself drinking and driving so many times that I drove 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.480 and had no recollection of driving the next day. I 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.560 got multiple minoring consumptions before I had even turned twenty one. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.240 I had that fake ID taken, and I think I 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:59.120 was threatened with legal action. So so many different things happening. 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.640 What's is like, I am definitely not a Christian. Even 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.400 though we had grown up going to Catholic mass, I 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.360 had heard the Bible read, we prayed, I went through 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.880 first Communion and some of the other sacraments. I had 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:19.920 a belief in God, but it was definitely not the 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.080 God of the Bible. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.320 It was not God for who he really is. 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.640 It's definitely not who the Scripture reveals him to be 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.120 and who he is revealed to be in the person 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.920 and work of Jesus Christ. And so really just this vague, 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.920 distorted conception of God. And I just really liked doing 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.600 whatever I wanted to do, and so I ended up 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.800 losing that scholarship pretty quickly. And even though I'm living 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.320 this life of like unhinged rebellion, full blown sin, I mean, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.880 the drunkenness is just one part of it. There's rampant 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.520 sexual immorality, strip clubs, I mean, doing anything and everything 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.640 I wanted to do. Even in all of that, like 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.480 I still was able to get a really good job 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.200 at a construction company even though I had lost my 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:10.080 scholarship for construction management, and by the time I would 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:14.400 have graduated with a degree from Arizona State University's construction 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.240 management program, I had already climbed the ladder pretty far 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.240 in this construction company and was already way ahead of 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.280 where anyone would be had they got a degree and 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.080 were then trying to enter construction management. And so I 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.520 say that to say, like, just God's kindness towards me, 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.280 even in the midst of me living in full blown rebellion, 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:36.200 or I. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.920 Wonder too sometimes like sometimes he just gives us over 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:39.680 to what we want. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.040 Oh for sure, Yeah, definitely giving me over to what 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:48.440 I want with the drinking, the sexual morality, even the money. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:49.640 And all of that. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.440 But to be able to keep a job and to 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.560 do really well at that job, I think it's just 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.440 it's like his rainfalls on the just and the unjust. 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.360 I think it was just a kindness towards me that 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.400 clearly I did not deserve, don't deserve anything. And so 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.600 with the drinking though, it would really take center stage 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.760 when I was in a relationship, so like if it's 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.760 just me and all my friends we're partying, it's like 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.360 we're doing the same things every weekend. I mean we 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.800 literally would talk about like Saturday morning, Sunday mornings, like 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.000 we're like getting away with murder, Like we are partying 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.760 so hard, we're doing crazy things and we know that 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.120 like we're flirting with death, we're flirting with legal consequences, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.320 We're flirting with all kinds of stuff, all kinds of disaster. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.720 When I would be in a relationship, I could usually 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:48.680 start out like pretty disciplined and like the girls excited 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.800 to be in the relationship with me. I'm excited to 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.760 be in the relationship with her. At some point though, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.400 like me trying to manage the drinking, maintain composure, and 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:02.080 really when I'm like drunk, not be a fool, not 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.760 say hurtful things, not flirt with other girls or do 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.119 stupid things like Eventually the relationship would start to unravel, 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:14.479 And usually the common denominator was my drinking and just 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.800 all the different ways that that impacted me and whoever 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.240 I was dating. And so at one of these low 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.000 points in a relationship that is now starting to fall apart, 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:32.000 this particular girl, her parents were very gracious to me, 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.880 very patient with me. Her dad had actually been sober. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.880 I think at that point for around twenty years, and 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.200 he had been really involved in AA I think earlier 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.879 in his sobriety. At this point, I think he's maybe 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.439 attending a meeting a week or every other week, but 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:56.000 he's just kind of sitting back as really, my unraveling 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.800 is on full display. And at one of these low 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:03.080 points in this relationship with his daughter, he very lovingly 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.600 was like, hey, man, I don't know if you want 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.879 to hear this, but I think you might have a 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.720 problem with alcohol. And at this point, I might be 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.480 around twenty two or twenty three years old, and that 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.639 is the last thing that I want to hear. And 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.280 even though there's like something inside of me that's like, yeah, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.840 this is a little problematic, like what I'm drinking, how 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:30.920 much I'm drinking, like the consequences relationships just crumbling, Like 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.359 there's there's an awareness inside of me, but kind of 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.239 like you said, like the Lord gives us over, like 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.760 if this is what you want, have your fill, we 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.160 suppress the truth and unrighteousness. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.240 We'll be right back after this. Yeah, And I think 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:47.760 I think it's so interesting because I think a lot 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.399 of people I know I have this. I know a 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.680 lot of people I've interviewed on this podcast, is there. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:59.520 If we're honest with ourselves, there is a point, likely 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.159 very early on, where we're like, this is this is 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:03.639 not good? 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:04.560 Oh for sure. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.720 Now, if we were called if and when we were 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.680 called out about it, at that point, we denied it, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.000 you know, up and down. But I think it's so interesting. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.520 There's something there, right that we just suppress. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:20.040 Oh for sure. Yeah, it's even if it's the faintest voice. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.679 I mean, unless someone has drank or used drugs to 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:29.159 the point where like they've actually compromised like their cognitive 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.000 abilities to like think rationally. I think that even if 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.960 it's the faintest voice, all of us experience that at 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.280 least at some point. Now, maybe it gets to a 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.480 point where it's been so numbed and drowned that that 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.440 you can't even hear the voice anymore type thing. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.320 But yeah, I agree with you. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.360 And so he's like, hey, like maybe you should consider 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.800 going to an a meeting just to see like what 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.359 you think. And so at this point, like when I 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.439 would drink and especially like on the backside of like 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.520 these weekend binges, I would feel anxious, I would even 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.119 feel depressed, especially like if I got in an argument 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.800 with my girlfriend and like I'm having to look through 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.119 text messages to try to even piece together like Sherlock Holmes, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.120 what did I say the night before that has her 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:17.760 so mad at me? 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:18.360 Type thing? 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.359 And so like in one of these low moments where 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.440 like I'm definitely not willing to admit that I have 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.200 a problem, or definitely not willing to admit that I'm 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.040 an alcoholic. I'm willing to acknowledge that, hey, there might 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.600 be some sort of a problem here, but yeah, just 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.680 really not having any answers or any reasons to justify 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.200 continuing to do what I was doing. At one point, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.080 I end up committing to doing ninety AA meetings in 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.920 ninety days and really like that thing, right, it's called 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.480 ninety and ninety Oh for sure, totally a thing. And 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.600 he was encouraging me like, hey, like do ninety and ninety. 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.720 You're going to hear people share their story. You're gonna 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.359 hear people talk about alcoholism. You're gonna hear from the 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.439 Big Book, which is the book that Alcoholics Anonymous is 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.600 based on. It's actually just called Alcoholics Anonymous, as you know. 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.280 And he was essentially was saying like, I'm not telling 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.399 you you're an alcoholic, like you decide for yourself. And 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.280 so really, I commit to do this ninety and ninety 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.439 not because I think I'm an alcoholic, and definitely not 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.560 because I'm planning to never drink again. It's actually to 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.680 prove to them that I'm not an alcoholic and that 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.600 I could not drink for ninety days and essentially just 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.320 demonstrate that. Yeah, like, maybe this has been problematic at times, 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:50.320 but it's not like an alcoholism problem. It's a lack 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.720 of self control sometimes problem. 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.840 Yeah, yep, which I think is so like I told 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.040 myself that, and I think there's a lot of people listening. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.960 There's a different between problematic drinking and having a drinking problem, 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.440 oh for sure. And I think we live on that, 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.479 like we like that keeps us in bondage for a 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:11.320 long time. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:15.600 Oh for sure, for sure, especially as Christians, because like, yes, 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.640 even if a problematic drinker is not an alcoholic, if 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.760 you're flirting or even drinking past the point of drunkenness, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.320 whether you're an alcoholic or not, you're in sin. So 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:32.720 then it's a whole nother thing for the believer. But yeah, man, 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.760 I essentially commit to do the ninety and ninety. I 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.320 do ninety and ninety. I go to a meeting every 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:42.199 single day. I don't drink for ninety days. And I 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.560 actually paid attention, Like I didn't just sit in there 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:50.720 and try to fantasize about anything and everything like other 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.679 than where I am in that moment, Like I actually 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.879 paid attention. AM listening. So I'm hearing people read from 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.159 the Big Book. I'm hearing people read the steps and 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:04.119 talk through different steps. I'm hearing people share their testimonies, 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:09.160 and I'm definitely relating to some of what they say. 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:15.000 I'm definitely encouraged by the vulnerability. I'm encouraged by what 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:20.359 is a clear intentionality to help other people. I refused 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.959 to identify as an alcoholic, so like in every meeting 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.280 you have to essentially say, like, Hi, my name is Brett, 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:33.520 and I'm alcoholic. I think I said, I mean this 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.120 was almost fourteen, Well no, this was almost twenty years 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.320 ago now, because this was before I actually got sober. 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.239 I think I said, like, my name is Brett, and 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.240 I have a desire to stop drinking, which that wasn't 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.240 even truthful, Like I did not have a desire to 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.000 stop drinking. But it was better than saying my name 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.439 is Brett and I'm an alcoholic. And I had some 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:57.359 people come up to me during those ninety days and 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.800 they're like, what are you even doing here? And I'm 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.280 like i'd get like offended, Like I'm just like, man, 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.879 I'm just figuring stuff out, like like. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:07.360 What does it matter to you? Type thing? 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.040 Is there essentially like oh, if you're here, you've got 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:15.200 to be an alcoholic type thing. So anyway, dude, Day 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:19.040 ninety one, like literally, I'm at a bar as the 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:23.639 clock strikes midnight with some friends and we have a 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:27.520 few victory beers and I end up like in that 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.320 moment like I don't get drunk. I don't even think 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.680 I got buzzed. I just had a few beers. This 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.440 is now, it's a Sunday, so Saturday night at midnight. 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.200 Now it's Sunday morning at like twelve thirty am. Bars 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.360 are open until two in Phoenix. So having these few 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:48.720 victory beers, go home later than that same day there's 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.080 an Eric Church concert. This is all like in Tempe, Arizona, 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.400 and we go to the bars on Mill Avenue, which 0:24:56.440 --> 0:24:59.840