1 00:00:02,740 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey, Bob, thanks for joining me. 2 00:00:06,660 --> 00:00:08,820 Speaker 2: Well, it's good to be with you today, and thanks 3 00:00:08,930 --> 00:00:12,030 Speaker 2: for allowing us to come on and talk a little 4 00:00:12,050 --> 00:00:13,050 Speaker 2: bit about a great movie. 5 00:00:13,490 --> 00:00:14,050 Speaker 3: Amen to that. 6 00:00:14,090 --> 00:00:17,410 Speaker 1: Bob Beltz, associate producer of the movie Amazing Grace, which 7 00:00:17,530 --> 00:00:20,529 Speaker 1: is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year. I loved it 8 00:00:20,550 --> 00:00:21,950 Speaker 1: the first time I watched it. I'm looking forward to 9 00:00:21,970 --> 00:00:24,430 Speaker 1: covering it this year as well. It's currently on Angel, 10 00:00:24,590 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: also can be purchased or rented on all major platforms, 11 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: and it's now on DVD as well. The movie, of course, 12 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: tells the story of abolitionist William Wilberforce, who fought to 13 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: end the British slave trade and fought to end slavery 14 00:00:37,460 --> 00:00:41,750 Speaker 1: as well. Bob, you're also the author of Real Christianity. Bob, 15 00:00:41,770 --> 00:00:44,909 Speaker 1: you have long studied William Wilberforce. You've written about him. 16 00:00:45,909 --> 00:00:49,250 Speaker 1: Why do you think his story is still celebrated? What 17 00:00:49,290 --> 00:00:51,070 Speaker 1: is it about him that we are attracted to, and 18 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:52,930 Speaker 1: why do we need to hear his story? 19 00:00:54,190 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: Well, I'll take you back 20 years, first of all, 20 00:00:58,220 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: and Prior to making the film, I think I was 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,380 Speaker 2: part of a small Wilberforce fan club. A few people 22 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:10,620 Speaker 2: that did know about him, and any time sort of 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,630 Speaker 2: the topic of faith and social change or action would 24 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:16,870 Speaker 2: come up, it always seemed like, you know, that the 25 00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:20,030 Speaker 2: example that people would use was William Wilberforce. And yet, 26 00:01:20,470 --> 00:01:24,190 Speaker 2: you know, so few people knew his story, knew about him, 27 00:01:24,530 --> 00:01:27,050 Speaker 2: and that was, I think, you know, the big motivation. 28 00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:30,690 Speaker 2: to make the film was to try and introduce this 29 00:01:30,790 --> 00:01:32,910 Speaker 2: guy who, you know, I think was one of the 30 00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:38,169 Speaker 2: most honestly incredible human beings that has ever walked the planet. 31 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:43,210 Speaker 2: And it wasn't just his fight for the abolition of 32 00:01:43,270 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: the slave trade. It was a guy that really, out 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: of a renewed faith and commitment to seek his purpose 34 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:56,140 Speaker 2: and and sensing a calling from God not only to 35 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:58,690 Speaker 2: what he called his two great objects, you know, not 36 00:01:58,790 --> 00:02:01,770 Speaker 2: only to tackle, you know, the abolition of the slave trade, 37 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:05,910 Speaker 2: but then also to really tackle British society and the 38 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:09,290 Speaker 2: injustices that he saw around. And I think he ended 39 00:02:09,430 --> 00:02:14,389 Speaker 2: up either starting or being involved in over 90 what 40 00:02:14,410 --> 00:02:17,670 Speaker 2: they called at the time societies, which would be kind 41 00:02:17,710 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: of like nonprofits today or ministries or NGOs, and it 42 00:02:22,580 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: was said that he made doing good fashionable. Somehow or other, 43 00:02:27,910 --> 00:02:31,650 Speaker 2: he was able to get on board many of these causes, 44 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:35,890 Speaker 2: you know, people that were very unlikely, I think, you know, 45 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:38,730 Speaker 2: to be a part of, you know, seeking to, you know, 46 00:02:38,770 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: change British society. So he was just a remarkable human 47 00:02:42,380 --> 00:02:45,820 Speaker 2: being that, again, you know, very few people knew about. 48 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,420 Speaker 2: And we just had a desire to make his story 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: known and And I'm very proud of the movie. You know, 50 00:02:53,780 --> 00:02:56,060 Speaker 2: the owner of the company, this is his favorite film 51 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,750 Speaker 2: that we've ever made. And, you know, I just think 52 00:02:59,830 --> 00:03:03,510 Speaker 2: it's an excellent film about an amazing human being. 53 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:08,470 Speaker 1: We're talking the late 1700s, early 1800s, I believe, if 54 00:03:08,510 --> 00:03:11,630 Speaker 1: that's correct. And of course, this is a full 50 55 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: to 60 years before the U.S. abolished slavery. What role 56 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,660 Speaker 1: did Wilberforce's Christian faith play? in his beliefs? Was that 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,739 Speaker 1: the core of what he was, you know, was that 58 00:03:26,780 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: the core of his beliefs? Yeah, definitely. 59 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,380 Speaker 2: And again, as a young boy, he had come to 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,020 Speaker 2: faith through the influence of his aunt and uncle who 61 00:03:37,060 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: he'd been sent to live with. They happened to be 62 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,340 Speaker 2: friends with and supporters of George Whitefield, John Wesley, and 63 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,780 Speaker 2: John Newton, you know, who actually wrote the hymn Amazing Grace. 64 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,410 Speaker 2: And Newton had a big influence on him as a child. 65 00:03:51,810 --> 00:03:56,770 Speaker 2: But his family got very upset about that, because in 66 00:03:56,850 --> 00:04:01,130 Speaker 2: those days in the Church of England, these guys were 67 00:04:01,150 --> 00:04:04,170 Speaker 2: looked at as sort of renegades. They came up with 68 00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: a couple of terms to call them that were actually 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: not intended to be complimentary. One was evangelicals. That was 70 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: really a bad term in those days. And Methodists, that 71 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,420 Speaker 2: was another one. So anyway— So what happened is he 72 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: almost got deprogrammed to the point that by the time 73 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: he went to Cambridge, I don't think he had any faith. 74 00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: You know, he was there with William Pitt, very good 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,099 Speaker 2: friend of William Pitt's. And by the time that they 76 00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: graduated from Cambridge at the age of 21, they both 77 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: became members of parliament. Pitt, at the age of 24, 78 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: became the prime minister of England. Again, you know, part 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,110 Speaker 2: of what we're hopeful is just that this will connect 80 00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:55,830 Speaker 2: with a new generation, particularly of faith. But in terms 81 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,460 Speaker 2: of his own faith, what happened is he actually, this 82 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: is not in the film, the film starts out with 83 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,180 Speaker 2: a very little scene where, you know, his butler asks him, 84 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,230 Speaker 2: you know, have you found God? Because he's out praying, 85 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:12,489 Speaker 2: you know, and Wilberforce, I think, responds with a good line. 86 00:05:12,529 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: He says, well, I think he found me. And He 87 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: had gone on a vacation with a man named Isaac Milner, 88 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,820 Speaker 2: who was a professor of mathematics at Cambridge, the contemporary 89 00:05:22,870 --> 00:05:26,089 Speaker 2: of his, who held the chair there that was held 90 00:05:26,190 --> 00:05:31,110 Speaker 2: by Sir Isaac Newton originally, and then finally Stephen Hawking 91 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:34,770 Speaker 2: was held to the same chair. So this was no dummy. 92 00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:38,110 Speaker 2: And they went on a vacation together and decided to 93 00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:41,150 Speaker 2: study a book called The Rise and Progress of Religion 94 00:05:41,210 --> 00:05:44,030 Speaker 2: in the Soul by Philip Doddridge. It was sort of 95 00:05:44,050 --> 00:05:47,890 Speaker 2: the mere Christianity of the day. And through that, really, 96 00:05:48,130 --> 00:05:51,150 Speaker 2: is when he came to, I think, that was this 97 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,460 Speaker 2: process of him coming back to a real solid faith 98 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,460 Speaker 2: and relationship with Christ, and then trying to process, which 99 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 2: the film shows, what do I do? Do I stay 100 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:08,050 Speaker 2: in politics, or do I become a minister somewhere? And 101 00:06:08,490 --> 00:06:12,429 Speaker 2: both Pitt and then Newton went back to see Newton. 102 00:06:12,470 --> 00:06:14,430 Speaker 2: That's in the film. And they both said the same thing, 103 00:06:14,450 --> 00:06:18,500 Speaker 2: you know, why can't you do both? God can use 104 00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: you there. You need to stay there. And then again, 105 00:06:22,540 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: in his faith, he began to seek, what's my purpose 106 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,870 Speaker 2: then in politics? And that's where these two great objectives 107 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:33,669 Speaker 2: came out, that he felt like God was leading him. 108 00:06:33,710 --> 00:06:35,750 Speaker 2: So his faith was at the center of it, really, 109 00:06:36,010 --> 00:06:41,310 Speaker 2: and probably more than the film even shows, and great 110 00:06:41,370 --> 00:06:44,820 Speaker 2: stories behind much of what's in the film. And like 111 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,420 Speaker 2: the Milner story. So yes, you know, your answer is 112 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,100 Speaker 2: Christ was at the center of it and his relationship 113 00:06:51,140 --> 00:06:53,870 Speaker 2: with Christ. Very deep devotional life, by the way, that 114 00:06:54,089 --> 00:06:57,169 Speaker 2: you don't really see in the film. But, you know, 115 00:06:57,770 --> 00:06:59,270 Speaker 2: that was at the heart of everything he did. 116 00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:02,550 Speaker 1: You mentioned a couple of things there I want to reference. 117 00:07:02,589 --> 00:07:06,109 Speaker 1: You mentioned William Pitt. Benedict Cumberbatch portrayed William Pitt in 118 00:07:06,130 --> 00:07:08,390 Speaker 1: the film, I believe. And of course, this is Doctor 119 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,100 Speaker 1: Strange now in the Marvel movies. And so you guys 120 00:07:11,140 --> 00:07:14,770 Speaker 1: got Benedict Cumberbatch, I guess, before he became big, so 121 00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:15,730 Speaker 1: that was really cool. 122 00:07:16,530 --> 00:07:18,470 Speaker 2: We get asked a lot about this, and I think 123 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:21,430 Speaker 2: one of the things about re-releasing it, when we made 124 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:24,110 Speaker 2: the film, nobody knew who these actors were. You look 125 00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:26,750 Speaker 2: at the list of actors that are in this film, 126 00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:29,950 Speaker 2: and they all now are sort of A-list, well-known people. 127 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:33,290 Speaker 2: The film actually looks like it was just made because 128 00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:35,630 Speaker 2: of all of the characters there, and the only reason 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: we got those guys is because the director was Michael Apted, 130 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:43,260 Speaker 2: who was a Brit and knew all these these actors 131 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:48,410 Speaker 2: that were really not known in the States. And consequently, again, 132 00:07:48,590 --> 00:07:50,630 Speaker 2: the cast is amazing. 133 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:54,430 Speaker 1: They all do an unbelievable job. And the film is really, 134 00:07:54,490 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: really high quality. Some may wonder about the title of 135 00:08:07,220 --> 00:08:08,820 Speaker 1: the film. It's called Amazing Grace. I think you already 136 00:08:08,870 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: referenced that. It's because of William Mobile Force's friendship with 137 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: John Newton, who wrote Amazing Grace, and he was a 138 00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:18,350 Speaker 1: former slave ship captain, I believe. He was just transferred. 139 00:08:18,370 --> 00:08:21,790 Speaker 1: That's what Amazing Grace was about. Wilberforce fought the slave 140 00:08:21,850 --> 00:08:26,730 Speaker 1: trade for years and lost a lot. And I was 141 00:08:26,750 --> 00:08:29,180 Speaker 1: going to ask you, what's the lesson there? Because we 142 00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:32,900 Speaker 1: live in such an instant gratification society where, you know, 143 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: if you don't get it done and you don't see 144 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: results immediately, sometimes you just People just want to give up. 145 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,220 Speaker 1: So what can that teach us about perseverance? 146 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:46,830 Speaker 2: I was going to say, one of the underlying messages, 147 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: I think, of the film is persistence or perseverance. The 148 00:08:49,710 --> 00:08:54,069 Speaker 2: film actually opens at a time when he almost had 149 00:08:54,090 --> 00:08:58,270 Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown. That was 10 years. The opening sequences 150 00:08:58,510 --> 00:09:01,630 Speaker 2: was 10 years into his battle. He thought he had 151 00:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,470 Speaker 2: the votes. Every year he put a bill on the 152 00:09:04,510 --> 00:09:09,380 Speaker 2: floor of parliament from 1787, I think, was the first 153 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,420 Speaker 2: bill that was put on the floor. Every year he 154 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: put a bill on, and in 1797, he believed that 155 00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:21,790 Speaker 2: he had the votes, and his opponents went out and 156 00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:25,730 Speaker 2: bought tickets to a comic opera that was reeled, the 157 00:09:25,970 --> 00:09:30,209 Speaker 2: big ticket in town, and gave it to everybody that 158 00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: was going to vote pro. And the consequence was that, again, 159 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,490 Speaker 2: it was shot down and it really got to him. 160 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:42,270 Speaker 2: And part of the, I think, the message of the 161 00:09:42,309 --> 00:09:44,910 Speaker 2: film when you see, you know, how he was, you know, 162 00:09:44,929 --> 00:09:47,410 Speaker 2: he was at the point of, you know, giving up 163 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:51,650 Speaker 2: and was really encouraged to get back into the fight. 164 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:55,730 Speaker 2: And he, it was another 10 years before finally, you know, 165 00:09:55,790 --> 00:09:59,970 Speaker 2: in 1807 is when Parliament passed the bill that abolished 166 00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: the slave trade throughout the British Empire. You may say 167 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: a little bit earlier about how it was so much 168 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,900 Speaker 2: longer here. Interesting thing is that he was a good 169 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: friend of John Jay. John Jay was the first Chief 170 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: Justice of the Supreme Court, and the slave trade trade 171 00:10:18,260 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: in America was actually abolished a year after it was 172 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:26,450 Speaker 2: abolished in England. But slavery, which Wilberforce went on to 173 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:34,810 Speaker 2: battle for, was abolished there in 1833. And Wilberforce died 174 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:39,010 Speaker 2: three days after that bill was passed in Parliament. He'd 175 00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 2: been ill for some time. And it took us another, what, 176 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,900 Speaker 2: 60 years, I guess, to finally abolish slavery in the States. 177 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 2: So He had influence here. He was pretty well known, 178 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: I think, in those days, even here. But again, you know, 179 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,580 Speaker 2: so few people know the story behind all of that 180 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:02,500 Speaker 2: these days. So it was abolished in the 1830s in 181 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:03,100 Speaker 2: Great Britain. 182 00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: United Kingdom, is that right? 183 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:05,970 Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, 1833. 184 00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:08,830 Speaker 1: Okay. Because about 30 years then, I guess, the difference there. 185 00:11:08,850 --> 00:11:10,849 Speaker 1: But it does seem like the United Kingdom was a 186 00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:12,949 Speaker 1: little bit ahead of us, even though there were a 187 00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:16,570 Speaker 1: lot of abolitionists. And the Continental Progress in Philadelphia in 188 00:11:16,570 --> 00:11:20,010 Speaker 1: 1776 that, you know, we wrote the Constitution kind of 189 00:11:20,290 --> 00:11:24,300 Speaker 1: with both sides just agreeing to disagree and just going 190 00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:28,300 Speaker 1: forward is what we did. Let's briefly switch lanes here. 191 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,700 Speaker 1: This is not your first rodeo. You've been involved in 192 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,740 Speaker 1: quite a few films over the years that all of 193 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:38,580 Speaker 1: our audience has enjoyed. One of the projects was the 194 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,900 Speaker 1: Narnia series. What was your role in the Narnia series 195 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,900 Speaker 1: and why did you want to see that on the 196 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:44,260 Speaker 1: big screen? 197 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,370 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I was a big C.S. Lewis 198 00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:51,910 Speaker 2: fan to begin with, and we had people in the 199 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:56,050 Speaker 2: company that also were, and they had been approached multiple 200 00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:59,870 Speaker 2: times about getting film rights to the books. And one 201 00:11:59,890 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: of the things was is that they, you know, prior 202 00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: to our relationship with the estate, there were four men 203 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: that made all the decisions about the C.S. Lewis estate, 204 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,850 Speaker 2: and at least two, if not three of them, were 205 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,309 Speaker 2: not believers. One was his stepson, Doug Gresham, who was 206 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:24,710 Speaker 2: a really strong Christian, but they had never given those 207 00:12:24,809 --> 00:12:30,740 Speaker 2: rights away. So when we began to talk with the estate, 208 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: we didn't want just the rights to one book, and 209 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: we actually had the rights to all seven of the books, 210 00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:44,090 Speaker 2: but it became so difficult to working with studios and 211 00:12:44,309 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 2: demands and things that we, we, we couldn't, we just 212 00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:52,100 Speaker 2: couldn't get beyond that third film. So, you know, for 213 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 2: me to be able, and again, my, my job in 214 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,100 Speaker 2: the midst of all of that was to try and 215 00:12:58,220 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: keep the film on track with the books. And the 216 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: environment in those days was not very friendly toward things 217 00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:12,110 Speaker 2: of faith is, and, you know, Mel's film had come out, 218 00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:16,670 Speaker 2: so that was obviously a huge success. So my job 219 00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:20,219 Speaker 2: was to try and keep things, you know, faithful to 220 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,020 Speaker 2: the books and to the faith, you know, dimension in 221 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: the books. And that's kind of what my role has 222 00:13:25,059 --> 00:13:28,420 Speaker 2: been with the film company 25 years now. So I 223 00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: think I've been involved in over 30 films, but those 224 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:35,410 Speaker 2: were real, something really special just because I was such 225 00:13:35,429 --> 00:13:37,510 Speaker 2: a a fan of C.S. Lewis, and I just got 226 00:13:37,570 --> 00:13:40,290 Speaker 2: mad when they kept trying to take it different directions. 227 00:13:40,350 --> 00:13:44,429 Speaker 2: So I'm nervous about Netflix having those rights now, and 228 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:46,490 Speaker 2: I'm just hoping they don't ruin the deal. 229 00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: If you liked today's episode, please subscribe and leave a 230 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: five-star review. 231 00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:55,180 Speaker 3: That's how we help more people just like you find 232 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: the show. A big thanks to the team at Life 233 00:13:57,820 --> 00:14:01,010 Speaker 3: Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. If 234 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,010 Speaker 3: you go to lifeaudio.com, you will find dozens of other 235 00:14:04,070 --> 00:14:06,130 Speaker 3: faith-centered podcasts in their network. 236 00:14:06,750 --> 00:14:07,349 Speaker 1: See you next time.