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Speaker 1: Coming up, I'll celebrate the crackdown on Somalian and Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party fraud in Minnesota, but I'm going to argue that

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Speaker 1: investigations by themselves are meaningless. We need prosecutorial follow up.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to use the occasion of Trump's strike on

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Speaker 1: ISIS in Nigeria to explore the question when exactly should

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Speaker 1: the US consider using military power abroad. He If you're

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Speaker 1: watching an x rumble a YouTube listening on Apple or Spotify,

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Speaker 1: please subscribe to my channel. This is THEUSA podcast.

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Speaker 2: America needs this voice.

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Speaker 3: The times are crazy in a time of confusion, division

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Speaker 3: and lies. We need a brave voice of reason, understanding

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Speaker 3: and truth. This is the Donesh Desuza Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I spoke yesterday about President trump strike on ISIS targets

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Speaker 1: in Nigeria, and the strikes themselves got me thinking about

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Speaker 1: a bigger issue that is a real divide on the right,

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Speaker 1: and this divide concerns the question of when should the

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Speaker 1: US intervene militarily in another country. Now, in a way,

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Speaker 1: the MAGA movement the America First Movement are a reaction

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Speaker 1: against the Bush policy, in which it seems that we

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Speaker 1: too hastily got involved, that we became involved in a

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Speaker 1: kind of excessive, entangled way. Both in Afghanistan and in Iraq.

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Speaker 1: These were both military interventions, but in a sense they

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Speaker 1: both amounted to military occupations, and they turned out badly.

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Speaker 1: In both cases, the Taliban is back in power, evidently

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Speaker 1: with enough support from the Afghan people to be able

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Speaker 1: to hold power in that way. In fact, they were

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Speaker 1: able to survive throughout the US occupation in the mountains.

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Speaker 1: And similarly, in Iraq, the US backed regime has fallen,

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Speaker 1: and essentially what we have is a Shia regime in

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Speaker 1: Iraq that is close to the government of Iran. And

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Speaker 1: so I think objectively these policies associated with George W. Bush,

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Speaker 1: but in some ways going before him must be judged

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Speaker 1: to be a failure. And so there's a reaction against that,

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Speaker 1: which is essentially a non interventionist reaction, that we should

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Speaker 1: be very slow to commit troops and we should be

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Speaker 1: slow to engage in military action. And of course some

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Speaker 1: of that is now focused on the criticism of the

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Speaker 1: Ukraine War, where the United States is involved not directly

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Speaker 1: but certainly indirect police, supplying arms and so on. And

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Speaker 1: so how do we think about all this, how do

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Speaker 1: we think about when to get involved. Now, interestingly, Trump

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Speaker 1: has this position in which he I would call him

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Speaker 1: a kind of a guy who does not hesitate to

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Speaker 1: use American power short of committing troops. So he's not

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Speaker 1: putting really American lives in danger, well not exactly. You

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Speaker 1: send a you know, a bomber over to Iran with

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Speaker 1: some fighter jets to protect it. There is some risk.

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Speaker 1: It's not like there's zero risk. American soldiers and American

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Speaker 1: pilots could in fact be killed, but you're minimizing the

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Speaker 1: risk of that. And what you're really doing is you're

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Speaker 1: going abroad to administer a kind of sound and deserve

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Speaker 1: beating in one case to the Iran nuclear facilities and

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Speaker 1: another case to Solemani, in another case to Al Baghdaddy,

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Speaker 1: and now of course to the ISIS faction in that

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Speaker 1: is killing Christians in Nigeria. So again to ask the

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Speaker 1: broad question, when is it reasonable for the US to

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Speaker 1: intervene militarily? And notice that we've talked about two types

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Speaker 1: of intervention. One is just basically call it the Seal

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Speaker 1: Team six approach. That's a much more modest intervention. The

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Speaker 1: other is more serious commitments of troops. And so on. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, you could ask a hypothetical question. I mean

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Speaker 1: hypothetical in the sense that it's not conjectural. It could

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Speaker 1: actually be something we're faced with. In fact, I predict

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Speaker 1: we will be faced with it in the not too

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Speaker 1: distant future. Let's say, for example, China makes a big

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Speaker 1: move military move to take Taiwan. What should the United

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Speaker 1: States do? I'm not sure that there is a whole lot,

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Speaker 1: certainly not a whole lot of public discussion about what

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Speaker 1: would the US do and what should we do in

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Speaker 1: that kind of eventuality. So I want to think about

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Speaker 1: and just outline what the way I think we should

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Speaker 1: we should adjudicate these kinds of issues. By and large,

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Speaker 1: for the United States to get involved, two factors need

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Speaker 1: to be present. The first one is it needs to

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Speaker 1: be in the interests of the United States. That is first,

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Speaker 1: and I would say paramount. But there's a second factor.

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Speaker 1: It also needs to have an adequate moral justification. So

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Speaker 1: notice here I'm giving you a two fold criteria. The

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Speaker 1: first one is drawn from you could call it moral principle,

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Speaker 1: which is which is the I'm sorry, that's the second one,

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Speaker 1: moral principle, And the first one is drawn from real

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Speaker 1: politique or national interests. I think you actually need both.

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Speaker 1: One is not enough. Why not? Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: because if it's not in the US interest, why do it.

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Speaker 1: There may be things that are good to do in

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Speaker 1: far away corners of the world, but they don't affect US.

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Speaker 1: I think it's difficult toy why the US should use

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Speaker 1: Notice we're talking here not about giving aid or giving

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Speaker 1: any kind of relief for diplomatic support. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: actual military power. It seems to me we should restrict

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Speaker 1: military power to situations where it is in the US interest.

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Speaker 1: But US interests are often not enough. Because let's say,

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Speaker 1: for example, that you have a dictator in a foreign country.

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Speaker 1: He's an ally of the United States, but he's massacring

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Speaker 1: his own citizens. And the question is, should refuse military

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Speaker 1: power to prop him up even though his citizens are

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Speaker 1: trying to get rid of him? And I would answer no, because,

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Speaker 1: even though it may be in the US interest to

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Speaker 1: do it, this guy is obviously a bad guy. He's

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Speaker 1: obviously harming his own people. But not only that, how

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Speaker 1: do you expect to go to the American people and say, listen,

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Speaker 1: this guy's a monster, but he's our monster. And so

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Speaker 1: because it's in our us interest because he is he

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Speaker 1: proclaims himself to be a friend of ours, we're going

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Speaker 1: to help him crush the aspirations of his own people. This,

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Speaker 1: I think is not only does it make no sense

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of abominable, but it's also something that

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Speaker 1: will not be tolerated by the American people, who, after all,

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Speaker 1: have themselves a moral compass that they apply to foreign affairs.

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Speaker 1: So that, to me is a somewhat broadly philosophical, but

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Speaker 1: I hope useful way to think about when we should

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Speaker 1: use American power. Now, let me turn to my topic

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Speaker 1: for today's podcast, which is Cops and Robbers, And by robbers,

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Speaker 1: i'm referring to the fraud network in Minnesota. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I can give you a fair bet that it's not

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Speaker 1: just Minnesota. These fraud networks are probably operating in other

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Speaker 1: parts of the country as well. Why shouldn't they be.

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Speaker 1: They're so easy to pull off. Now, by the way,

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Speaker 1: when I say they're easy to pull off, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are under the impression that the Minnesota fraud

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Speaker 1: network is a fraud on minus Minnesota, that they've been

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Speaker 1: robbing the money of the people of Minnesota. This is,

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Speaker 1: by the way, largely not true. And I say that

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Speaker 1: because what's really going on is that you have a

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Speaker 1: collaboration between the fraudsters, the Democratic establishment of Minnesota, and

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Speaker 1: the state government of Minnesota to defraud the federal government.

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Speaker 1: In other words, the money is the taxpayer money, it's

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Speaker 1: your money, it's my money, the Minnesota's the fraudsters are

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Speaker 1: robbing us. They're not just robbing the citizens of Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you can argue that the political establishment of

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party in Minnesota is enabling the theft. Now,

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Speaker 1: some people may think, well, why don't we just focus

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Speaker 1: on the fraudsters. They're the ones who are doing the fraud.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we just focus on the Somalis. And of

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Speaker 1: course we have these Nick Shirley videos, very illuminating where

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Speaker 1: he goes from learning center to learning center. You know,

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Speaker 1: in one case the name is spelled, in other cases

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Speaker 1: there's no learning going on. In fact, that nobody seems

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Speaker 1: to be around, or they seem to be closed, or

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Speaker 1: they won't open the door. And so all of this

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Speaker 1: is now entered the public consciousness, I think in very

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Speaker 1: dramatic ways, and I see the government is actually responding

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Speaker 1: to it. They've unleashed a kind of battalion of investigators

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Speaker 1: who are on the ground, door to door checking this

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Speaker 1: stuff out. Now, first of all, you know, it's amazing

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Speaker 1: that the government hasn't been doing this all along. There

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Speaker 1: hasn't been any effort to really break these fraud networks.

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Speaker 1: And all of this is consistent with my THESI is

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Speaker 1: that the reason that they haven't done it, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why the federal government hasn't done and I

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Speaker 1: know why they didn't do it under Biden because they're

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Speaker 1: part of the fraud. In other words, it's part of

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party strategy to enable fraud in this way

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Speaker 1: across the country. Fraud is the name of their game.

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Speaker 1: Fraud is partly how they get votes. And if you go, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, are you saying the Democrats are willing

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Speaker 1: to break the law, Well, yeah, of course they are.

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Speaker 1: Look at the way that they allow illegal immigration. They

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Speaker 1: break the law, they allow law breaking, They in a

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Speaker 1: sense invite the lawbreakers to come here because if there's

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Speaker 1: political benefits to be had, they don't care about the law.

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Speaker 1: It's a great fiction. And in fact, even some of

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Speaker 1: this reporting I'm seeing about Minnesota is misguided in the

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Speaker 1: sense that Tim Waltz really drop the ball. Tim Walls

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Speaker 1: doesn't even know what's going on in his own state.

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Speaker 1: Tim Watts is incompetent. No, Tim Walls is not incompetent.

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Speaker 1: Tim Waltz is part of it. Tim Walls is part

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Speaker 1: of an elaborate operation. And here, by the way, is

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Speaker 1: how that operation works. I mean, think of a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Somalis who come here, you know, and let's leave

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Speaker 1: aside whether they're IQs or sixty eight or not. The

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Speaker 1: point is they're newcomers. They don't know the American system.

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Speaker 1: They can barely get by. Some of them don't even

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Speaker 1: properly speak the language. They don't even know how to

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Speaker 1: get into schools. They certainly don't know how to operate

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Speaker 1: fraud networks through the US government. Somebody has to show

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Speaker 1: them the ropes. Somebody has to pay the way. Somebody

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Speaker 1: has to in a sense, lay out the scheme, and

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Speaker 1: then they're like, only too happy. I mean, they come

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Speaker 1: from corrupt cultures. I'm not saying that they are somehow

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Speaker 1: they have moral inhibitions. I'm simply saying that they don't

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Speaker 1: know how to apply the type of typical bribery, under

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Speaker 1: the table, passage of money, all the stuff that they

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Speaker 1: do in their own countries. They don't know automatically how

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Speaker 1: to do it here. You can't do it in exactly

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Speaker 1: the same way. All immigrants who come here, and however

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Speaker 1: they get here, they realize that America is different, for example,

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Speaker 1: in another country, and this is certainly true in India

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Speaker 1: no less than Somalia. If the cop stops you and

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Speaker 1: says you're speeding, or stops you for whatever reason, you

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Speaker 1: can slip them a twenty rupee or one hundred rupee

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Speaker 1: note and the guy will quietly go away. You can't

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Speaker 1: do that in America. A cop stops you, you can't say, hey, officer,

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Speaker 1: I've got a Chris twenty dollar bill for you. Now

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Speaker 1: let's forget about the speeding ticket, shall we. You'll get arrested.

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Speaker 1: So clearly the American system it's not free of fraud.

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Speaker 1: But that kind of overt type of bribery is not

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Speaker 1: going to work. You need a more underhanded scheme. You

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Speaker 1: need to cover it up with a bunch of drapery.

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Speaker 1: You need a bunch of high falutin nonsense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is why the Somalis have learning center, Learning Center,

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Speaker 1: learning center, because you have to pretend like you're doing

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Speaker 1: something useful, providing a service. Oh you know, we have

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Speaker 1: people here who are learning. There are no people there

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Speaker 1: who are learning. It's all a Potemkin village. It's all fakery.

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Speaker 1: It's all a facade. But you need the facade. The

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Speaker 1: facade is absolutely essential. And what I'm saying is the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party and the Democratic Establishment of Minnesota, they're the

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Speaker 1: ones who teach the Somalis the facade. They're basically like,

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Speaker 1: we know your crooks. We're crooks also, but you've got

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Speaker 1: to be crooked in a certain way around here. This

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Speaker 1: is the American way of crookery. It doesn't work the

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Speaker 1: way it doesn't Mogadishu or any place else. And so

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Speaker 1: we're going to show you how to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: the fraud schemes that in a sense are built into

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Speaker 1: the welfare state. We created these structures. And it doesn't

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Speaker 1: just go back to LBJ, and it doesn't just go

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Speaker 1: back to even FDR. It goes back even further to

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century where immigrants would come off the boat,

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Speaker 1: they'd be handled, handed a bottle of vodka. Hey go

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Speaker 1: see my friend Tony he's gonna get you in the

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Speaker 1: longshoreman's job, but he's going to get you a job

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Speaker 1: as a policeman. All we want you to do is

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Speaker 1: sign here. This is a blank ballot. We'll fill it

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Speaker 1: out for you. Don't worry. So the Democratic Party has

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Speaker 1: been at this for a pretty long time. I guess

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that this is not some uniquely

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Speaker 1: like Somali scheme. This is a democratic scheme that is

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Speaker 1: almost two hundred years old, maybe one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: years old. They are They have modified it over the

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Speaker 1: years and is now applied to a new situation with

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Speaker 1: the somal and with other types of groups. But this

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Speaker 1: is what the Democratic Party does. We sometimes speak of

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Speaker 1: the collaboration ultimately between the Reds and the Greens, the

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Speaker 1: so called Red Green Alliance, and this is not a

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Speaker 1: direct application of the Red Green Alliance, but it sort

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Speaker 1: of is, because the Somalis, after all, represent as ilhad

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Speaker 1: Omar does, a kind of Muslim faction. So although we're

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Speaker 1: not talking here about sort of jihad in the direct

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Speaker 1: sense of the term, they are the Greens, the Somalis

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Speaker 1: are the Greens, and the Democrats, the socialists, the left.

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Speaker 1: They are the Reds. And so what I'm saying is

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Speaker 1: that the Reds are needed to show the Greens the ropes,

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Speaker 1: and they are happy to do it, and the Greens

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Speaker 1: are happy to be the actual robbers. And so that's

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Speaker 1: what's going on here in Minnesota. And so this is

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Speaker 1: not a sort of a one off. This is a tactic.

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Speaker 1: It's a little bit like what happened with Mom Donnie

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Speaker 1: in New York that was also a Red Green operation

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Speaker 1: of a different sort to get Mom Donni across the

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Speaker 1: finish line. By the way, don't be surprised if similar

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Speaker 1: schemes start popping up in New York. Mom Donnie, of

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Speaker 1: course would be the great enabler. It won't be the Somalis,

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Speaker 1: it'll be somebody else. But there'll be a different types

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Speaker 1: of groups now taking benefits, but pretty much under the

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Speaker 1: same rubric. Pambondi just posted saying basically, investigations are underway,

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Speaker 1: and my point is investigations are necessary, but they are

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Speaker 1: far from sufficient. We actually need investigations, but the investigations

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Speaker 1: need to be followed up with indictments and prosecutions and

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Speaker 1: handcuffs and long prison sentences, and not just by the way,

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Speaker 1: for the sort of last man on the street, but

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Speaker 1: also for the organizers, for the people who cooked up

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Speaker 1: these schemes. So my guess is it's going to go

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Speaker 1: fairly high up into the Democratic apparatus of Minnesota, and

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Speaker 1: it'll be a measure of the effectiveness of the DOJ

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Speaker 1: and of the Trump administration more generally, to see if

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Speaker 1: they can really bust this wide open. They have a

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Speaker 1: golden opportunity to do it. Republicans, however, have a very

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Speaker 1: bad record of sort of snatching defeat from the jaws

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Speaker 1: of victory. Let's not do that this time. They have

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Speaker 1: made it easy for us to go get them. We

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Speaker 1: need to go get them. Imagine exploring Israel, where thousands

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Speaker 1: a journey that changes the way you see the world.

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Speaker 1: M Denesh Jsuza inviting you to join me and New

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Speaker 1: Mount of Olives, and visit ancient sites that confirm the

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Cohn and I will be speaking and taking questions.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to meet you. We're going to open up

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Speaker 1: the scriptures in the very places you've read about for years,

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Speaker 1: connecting the archaeological record with Biblical prophecy and what is

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Speaker 1: slash Denesh, or you can call eight hundred two four

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Speaker 1: Inspiration Travel dot com slash Denesh. You know, incorporating a

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Speaker 1: can say with total confidence, I'm getting thirty one ingredients

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Speaker 1: of Nature dot com. Guys, I'm really delighted to welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast someone that Wie and I got to

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Speaker 1: know in Australia. It's doctor Melissa McCann. She's an experienced

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Speaker 1: general practitioner in the Queensland area of Australia. Prior to

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Speaker 1: her medical practice, she was a pharmacist. She has been

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Speaker 1: a leading activist in the COVID area, challenging COVID tyranny.

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Speaker 1: In fact, she has led a federal court action in

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Speaker 1: Australia on behalf of people injured and bereaved by vaccines.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a new book that she

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Speaker 1: has co edited called COVID Through Our Eyes, an Australian

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Speaker 1: story of mistakes, mistreatment and misinformation. There's a website covidthroughouriys

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Speaker 1: dot com dot AU. So the AU is for Australia

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Speaker 1: and that's where you can get information and get the ebook.

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Speaker 1: You can also follow Melissa out on x at doctor

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Speaker 1: Dr Melissa mcay mc c A n N. Melissa, it's

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Speaker 1: really a delight to see you again, as you know,

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Speaker 1: but my listeners and viewers don't. We met in Australia

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Speaker 1: because you were part of our lecture tour with Tucker Carlson.

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Speaker 1: We traveled to a number of Australian cities together and

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Speaker 1: it was well it was the three of us plus

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Speaker 1: of course our host Clive Farmer, and the four of

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Speaker 1: us did presentations generally to some very enthusiastic audiences and

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Speaker 1: a number of Australian cities. Very eye opening and memorable

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Speaker 1: experience for me and it was a delight to get

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Speaker 1: to know you and your husband Jared. But talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit, Melissa about your background as a medical practitioner,

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Speaker 1: as a doctor and how you first became alerted that's

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Speaker 1: something was deeply wrong in the kind of COVID regime

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Speaker 1: that was set up in Australia through the Australian Medical

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Speaker 1: Establishment and through the Australian government. I think for my

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Speaker 1: viewers and listeners it helps them to see that this

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Speaker 1: COVID tyranny is not localized to America. It's a global

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and in some ways, some of the worst things

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Speaker 1: that happened around COVID happened in your country of Australia.

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Speaker 2: Oh hi, Denish, thank you so much for having me on.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely lovely to see you again. And it was

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Speaker 2: such a memorable and yeah and just lovely trip that

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Speaker 2: we got to spend together here in Australia. So thank

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Speaker 2: you so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, I'm a general practitioner. I think in the US

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Speaker 2: maybe that's more referred to as a family physician, but

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Speaker 2: basically one of the first first points of contact with

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Speaker 2: patients as a family doctor, and I live up in

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, Queen so it's in a rural area,

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Speaker 2: and I've spent most of my career working and living

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Speaker 2: in rural towns. Before medicine, I was actually a pharmacist.

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Speaker 2: And so this community I've lived in now for the

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Speaker 2: last fourteen years, and yeah, we're quite a small town

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Speaker 2: up in rural North Queensland. And so basically, yeah, COVID,

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Speaker 2: just like everyone I think around the world, was just

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Speaker 2: such a interesting I don't even know with the word

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Speaker 2: to describe it, but such a different period of time.

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Speaker 2: And I would say that I went through a few

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Speaker 2: stages of evolution to where I'm at now, where I

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Speaker 2: would say I started out as someone who had a

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Speaker 2: very high level of trust in government, a very high

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Speaker 2: level of I suppose, you know, faith in what government

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Speaker 2: was doing, that they had our best interests at heart,

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Speaker 2: and that I was really keen to do my part

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Speaker 2: to help protect my community during COVID and and you know,

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Speaker 2: and do what I could to help in that scenario.

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Speaker 2: And over the period from say twenty twenty to twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one, I guess everyone's focus was really on watching

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Speaker 2: what was going on overseas. We didn't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of COVID at all in Australia, and so we were

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Speaker 2: really watching from the sidelines, and there was there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of fear. There was a lot of fear

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Speaker 2: amongst my colleagues. So the clinic, actually myself and my

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Speaker 2: husband we own that clinically started that clinic. We now

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Speaker 2: have nine GPS and we had I think eight who

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Speaker 2: were working with us at that time, and there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of really genuine fear for catching COVID, fear,

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Speaker 2: a lot of reports of very high death rates from COVID.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: At one point we were having a chat amongst the

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Speaker 2: doctors and there were reports coming out of Italy of

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Speaker 2: you know, thirty percent death rate, and so I guess

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Speaker 2: that was initially my perspective, how do we keep everyone safe?

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Speaker 2: And that meant putting up the perspex windows and thinking

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Speaker 2: about how we might screen and monitor patients as they

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Speaker 2: came in and courting off an area of the clinic

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Speaker 2: if people wanted to get changed before and after they started.

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Speaker 2: And for a long period of time we weren't seeing

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Speaker 2: any patients face to face. It was all done through

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Speaker 2: telehealth and that we set up our waiting area on

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Speaker 2: chairs outside the clinic, so everything was focused on I

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Speaker 2: guess this really what I look back now and think

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Speaker 2: perhaps irrational overwhelming fear of COVID, certainly in the context

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Speaker 2: of what at least the authorities knew at that time

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Speaker 2: that the infection fatality rate was far less than what

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Speaker 2: was being reported by the media. And so then the

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Speaker 2: next phase from that was the lockdown period. I guess

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Speaker 2: that Australia went to it was probably the best way

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Speaker 2: to describe that, And as you mentioned, Denesh, we had

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Speaker 2: some of the most I think, you know, draconian lockdown

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Speaker 2: measures put into place in Australia. Very fortunate. Up where

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Speaker 2: I was living, we did have a fairly prolonged period

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Speaker 2: of enforced mask and there was a period of time

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Speaker 2: where you couldn't travel for I think perhaps more than

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Speaker 2: ten or fifteen minutes from your home. You couldn't leave

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Speaker 2: our local sort of town to go anywhere else. But

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne, for example, the situation has been described to

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Speaker 2: me by people who lived there as traumatic. Had patients

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Speaker 2: literally as soon as the border is open who came

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Speaker 2: up to visit and I sort of offhand ask them

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Speaker 2: or it been down there? Was it as bad as

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Speaker 2: was it as bad as some of what I hear

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Speaker 2: and this man just absolutely started sobbing. He said, it

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Speaker 2: was just absolutely horrific period of time. There was a

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Speaker 2: very long I believe it was many months where there

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Speaker 2: was actually a curfew put in place, so they were

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Speaker 2: not allowed to leave their home after maybe eight or

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Speaker 2: nine pm. They weren't allowed to have anyone else in

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Speaker 2: the home, so they went through a lot of the

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Speaker 2: COVID period if you were single, for example, in complete

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Speaker 2: isolation where you couldn't have someone to visit your home.

430
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: And of course all the horrific stories that I think

431
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 2: we have heard around the world of people who were

432
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: left to die alone, of loved ones who couldn't visit

433
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: their you know, their spouses when they're in their last

434
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: days of life, and you know, all the all the

435
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 2: horrors that came along really with some of the government measures.

436
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: And I think that was probably the start of a

437
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: turning point to me. Where as a doctor, I looked

438
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 2: at some of the measures that our politicians were putting

439
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: into place, and firstly, there was no real medical sense

440
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 2: to what was being you know, what was being done,

441
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: and and second of all, there just seemed to be

442
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: no consideration for the human cost of the decisions that

443
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: were being made, and there was this great hypocrisy that

444
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: I think we heard happening amongst other amongst other governments

445
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: as well, where there were instances where government officials had

446
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: you know, breached those rules where they were allowed to

447
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: have visitors in hospital, whereas the the peasants, the rest

448
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: of us, you know, weren't. And so it was this

449
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: sort of tiered two tiered management, which also of course

450
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: makes no medical sense and makes one become a little

451
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: bit more I suppose circumspect about whether in fact these

452
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: political leaders were acting in our best interests. And then

453
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: of course came the vaccine roll out, and being someone

454
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: who's been I suppose at the forefront of vaccination delivery

455
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: as a general practitioner, so to put that into context,

456
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: in Australia, the overwhelming majority of vaccines, the childhood vaccination schedule,

457
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: et cetera, is administered through family physicians, through general practice.

458
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: I believe in America it's more that's more a pediatrician's role,

459
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: whereas that's a huge part of the role of family medicine.

460
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: And that was something that I'd always felt very positive

461
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: about and I suppose passionate about. And again I felt

462
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: that vaccination was this enormously important public health role that

463
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: doctors were to play. And I felt the same when

464
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: the COVID vaccine came out, that this would be an

465
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: opportunity to help in providing the vaccination rollout to my community,

466
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: in hopefully helping to protect people from COVID and hopefully

467
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: ending this awful situation of these you know, draconian measures

468
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: and these lockdowns and finally allowing people to get back

469
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: to normal life. And so that was my attitude, I suppose,

470
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: going into it. And I didn't hear a lot about

471
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: some of the side effects that were happening. For example, internationally,

472
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: that wasn't something that was widely published. There are a

473
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: couple of little warning bells that started to ring throughout

474
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. One was when there was the announcement

475
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: of deaths in nursing home residents in Norway when the

476
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: fires vaccination roll out first began. But unfortunately, well I

477
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: think unfortunately, the response from our officials, our regulators, the

478
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: Therapeutic Goods Administration was seemingly this really you know, swift response.

479
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: And I should say my background is pharmacy. The TGA

480
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: was very highly regarded in Australia as being one of

481
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: the best regulators in the world. That was actually a

482
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: phrase that was commonly used during my time as pharmacy

483
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: and I think that's come from the fact we have

484
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: we certainly had quite tight advertising laws, so drug companies

485
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: are not allowed to directly advertise to consumers, and so

486
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: I think that, in combination with other established regulatory standards,

487
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: the TGA had a really high level of trust amongst

488
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: the profession and so the So when the TGA came

489
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: out soon after that announcement and said we've thoroughly investigated

490
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: this and there's no relationship between the vaccine and those

491
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: deaths in Norway, that was really reassuring to hear that,

492
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: and essentially I guess to summit up. But throughout twenty

493
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: twenty one, I just started to see first of all,

494
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: here of more and more concerning stories that were coming

495
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: out of internationally where the vaccine rollout had already well

496
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: and truly begun. And then for us in my area

497
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: at least, the actual administration of the vaccines started in

498
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: perhaps May or June of twenty twenty one, and that

499
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: was first with the Astrosenica and then everything really started

500
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: to change for me because what I only participated actually

501
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: in the end in giving out a very small number

502
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: of vaccines because I stopped after maybe the first dozen

503
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 2: patients with the astrosenica. We did a very small clinic

504
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: and then at that time there was a three month

505
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: gap to have the booster for astrosenka, which I think

506
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: is a vaccine that was not administered in the US.

507
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: And essentially within that three month period from that very

508
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: small number of patients, I had seen a number of

509
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: side of really serious side effects. So several of those

510
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: patients passed away. Since then there was there was someone

511
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: who had a stroke, there was and then people who

512
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: were As we stopped giving out the vaccines, mandates started

513
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: to be announced and rolled out. So that was initially

514
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: in about sort of September October of twenty one, there

515
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: was a lot of talk of mandates, and then in

516
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: Queensland there was a cutoff date that was set as

517
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: December sixteenth or December tenth, something like that. And so

518
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: then around that final quarter of twenty twenty one, there

519
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: was just an enormous number of people who were having vaccines.

520
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: And before that point I'd said, look, I'm not I

521
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: don't want to participate in this anymore. I was worried

522
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: about the side effects, and you know I was. I

523
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: was also extremely concerned about this idea of it being mandatory.

524
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: For me, that was a complete turnaround from everything that

525
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: our government officials had said from the beginning. They'd always

526
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: said quite clearly, this would never be mandated, and of course,

527
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: a mandatory vaccine, this is completely contrary to medical ethics,

528
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: and it was just not something that I had any

529
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: comfort participating in administering. So at that point we weren't

530
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: giving them out anymore. But people were coming in as

531
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: a consequence of the mandates, in very large numbers, having

532
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: to have the vaccine. So I guess thousands and thousands

533
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: of people in my local area were being vaccinated in

534
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: the space of a month or two. And this was

535
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: a period of time that is almost difficult to describe,

536
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: difficult to look back on. It feels quite surreal, simply

537
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: because of the number of people reporting side effects in

538
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: that period of time. So we were just having phone

539
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: calls every day with people who were reporting chest pain,

540
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: people who having neurological symptoms and needed to be sent

541
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: to hospital. The amount of the number of I guess

542
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: just ambulances that we were needing to call from our

543
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: clinic within a week from people who were coming in

544
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: saying I just got my vaccine in a couple of

545
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: days ago, now I've got this chest pain. So it

546
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: was just, you know, put the ECG on and then

547
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: send them straight to hospital. We had two resuscitations in

548
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: the car park in the space of a week from

549
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: people who unfortunately had actually had strokes, and of course

550
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: we sent them straight to hospital. So I can't categorically

551
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: say this had any relationship with the vaccine, but it

552
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: was all within this time period, and we had people calling,

553
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: you know, my desk. At that stage, my room was

554
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: quite close to our reception desk, and so I would

555
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: just hear the reception staff taking phone calls all day

556
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: from people who were you know, could hear from the

557
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: other end of the phone call they were reporting, you know, miscarriages,

558
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: they were trying to get in for an urgent appointment

559
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: because they'd had these sudden symptoms. And having been in

560
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: this area and working at this clinic for you know,

561
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: and more than a decade at that stage, it was

562
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: just so obvious this enormous change in presentations that I

563
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: was directly seeing myself in my own patients. So it

564
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: was at that point that I had a look at

565
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: the TGA's adverse event database, which I hadn't even looked

566
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: at in some months, and I just thought, what has

567
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: actually been reported by you to the TGA. And I

568
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: was just utterly mortified to see that there had been

569
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: a number of deaths in teenagers that had been reported

570
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: to the TGA. There was probably half a dozen, I

571
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: would think, at least at that stage, reports of cardiac

572
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: arrests in young people under the age of twenty. And again,

573
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: at my background being pharmacy, I'm really familiar, I suppose,

574
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: with that adverse events reporting system. And of course I

575
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: know these are just reports and that doesn't mean that

576
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 2: they've been assessed for causality, but it means that there

577
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: were an extraordinary number of people who were reporting these

578
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: types of side effects to the TGA. In this mirrored

579
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: what I was seeing in my own practice. So of

580
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: course the first thing to do at that point was

581
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 2: to write to the head of the TGA, so that's

582
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: Professor John Skerrett, and so I wrote to him and

583
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: also our Health Minister Greg Hunt and and I sort

584
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: of copied a number of those reports that had been

585
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: reported to the database, and I outlined, you know, my

586
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: background and my experience and what I'd observed, and I

587
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: requested it as suspension of the program. I said, you know,

588
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: and this has happened before, doctors have noticed extraordinary patterns

589
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: of side effects requested a suspension of a program, and

590
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: when it comes to something like vaccination, normally that would

591
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: be acted on really quickly. And there are case there's

592
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: been an instance at least one in Australia where a

593
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: blue vaccination program has been halted immediately from those reports.

594
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: So that was actually the response that I expected, but

595
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: it was just not the response that I received. So

596
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: I received a letter from John Skirt where he essentially said,

597
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 2: you know, sadly enough, young people die every year coincidentally,

598
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: and so you know, we're going to see deaths that

599
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: occurring soon after vaccination, and I'm very confident that the

600
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: safety of the vaccines well outweighs the risks. And I

601
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: was really obviously unsatisfied with that response, and everything I

602
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: suppose started from there for me. From that point, I

603
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: just really had my ears pricked up as to exactly

604
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: what was going on. I really took an interest from

605
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: that point in patients who were coming in and reporting

606
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: these symptoms, and I guess everything's sort of started from there.

607
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: I started to write more letters, I reached out to

608
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: colleagues on large sort of Facebook closed Facebook forums to

609
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: ask what the experience of others was. A called you know,

610
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: rang up and spoke to other clinic owners in my

611
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: own area and just to try to really gauge a

612
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 2: feel of what others were seeing. And that was also

613
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: extremely concerning for me, because what I observed was that

614
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: doctors were very afraid to speak about this topic. And

615
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: the reason for that was that the Medical Board had

616
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 2: put out a dictat the year prior to basically say

617
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: that if any if any health professionals spoke adversely about

618
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: the vaccines, that they would essentially risk regulatory action. They

619
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: would essentially risk the Medical Board or the professional boards

620
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: coming down on them, and this had an extremely strong

621
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: effect on dissuading doctors from speaking about this. I had

622
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: many colleagues who would speak to me in absolute confidence

623
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: and privacy and could congratulate me and not crash that's

624
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: the wrong word, but thank me for what I was

625
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: doing in terms of trying to raise an awareness of this,

626
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: but expressed the fact that you know, they couldn't co

627
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: sign a letter or they couldn't you know, they couldn't

628
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,479
Speaker 2: themselves put their name on taking any sort of action

629
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: like this because they've feared for their own careers. And

630
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: so then eventually that process has culminated in a class action,

631
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: which is a legal action that you mentioned earlier. That

632
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: was a federal court class action that was filed in

633
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: early twenty twenty three. And yeah, I guess there's a

634
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 2: lot more I could talk about that. It is still

635
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: ongoing the class action. So that's I guess that's where

636
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: things are at now today. That's a long, long background,

637
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: but that's how I got to here.

638
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: No, No, it's actually quite quite eerie to listen to,

639
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: right because we all lived through these developments, and I

640
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: think to some degree even for Saw and me, we're

641
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: not doctors, but Debbie is actually very interested in health

642
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: and medicine, and so we went through, I would say,

643
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: a process somewhat analogous to the one that you did,

644
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: and I think many others did as well. Here we

645
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: are now, you know, on the edge of twenty twenty six.

646
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: COVID is not entirely in the rear view mirror, but

647
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: maybe mostly so. What you've described is a process where

648
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: it seems that the normal protocols of medicine, the normal

649
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 1: restraint of politics, the normal preference for voluntary as opposed

650
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: to mandatory procedure, all of this was thrown out the window.

651
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: So in this book, which is a lot of I

652
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: would say, you know, very from many different perspectives. It's

653
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: a book of essays that cover various dimensions of all

654
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: of this. Do you think that this was a case

655
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: of kind of well meaning people faced with a new

656
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: type of virus that they didn't know how to cope with,

657
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: and so they just bungled their way forward and that's

658
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: how we got all this, all this excess and tyranny

659
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: or option too. Do you think that this was actually

660
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: a case where some very some people who had a

661
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: lot of money to be made and a lot of

662
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: political power to be gained, recognize that the fear that

663
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: would naturally come out of any kind of pandemic could

664
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: be very carefully orchestrated or manipulated in a way that

665
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: would put not millions billions of dollars into their pockets,

666
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: increase the power of the government over the ordinary citizen.

667
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: So what is your kind of takeaway, Melissa, at the

668
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: end of it, Is it a case of like well,

669
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: good intentions gone awry? Or is this basically was this

670
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: some kind of a global political and pharmaceutical racket.

671
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: I think at this point in time, it's difficult to

672
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: reconcile being anything other than the latter, just in terms

673
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 2: of the way the global coordination I suppose, and having

674
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 2: now connected with so many medical colleagues from different countries

675
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 2: around the world to hear such similar, such similar experiences,

676
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: almost so many of the other regulators took exactly the

677
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: same stance, completely restricted doctors from discussing the concerns that

678
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: they had implemented these unethical mandatory vaccination policies. And so,

679
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: how does something like that happen simultaneously around the world

680
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: unless there's some you know, someone who's who's controlling that,

681
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: or some group of people who for whatever who knows

682
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: for whatever reason that there was some sort of agenda

683
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: behind that. And of course, you know, the types of

684
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: players that really in many ways control the world had

685
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: in fact, you know, run simulations on these types of

686
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: events and how they would run and how they would

687
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: play out, and so it's you know, when you see

688
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: the way that it did play out, how else could

689
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: you can you reconcile exactly what happened. I'm certain that

690
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: amongst whomever is, whoever runs the world, and whoever was

691
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: behind all of this, I'm sure there were an enormous

692
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: number of very well meaning people who went along with

693
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: this with the best of intentions, including probably many many

694
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: leaders whose whose aim and goal was to keep their

695
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: communities safe and to do what they thought was the

696
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: right thing to do. I'm sure that's many professionals would

697
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: be in the same situation. I know how eagerly most

698
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: doctors went to get the vaccine themselves, went to get

699
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 2: it for their parents, for their children. So I know

700
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: for a fact that many people thought that they were

701
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: doing the right thing for a very long time, and

702
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: perhaps still do. But it is hard to envisage how

703
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: all of this happened in such a coordinated way, and

704
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: as you say, the book really speaks to that. And

705
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: in Australia in particular, the contrast is very stark because

706
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: there was a pandemic management plan that had been that

707
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: had been i suppose refined over a number of years,

708
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of input internationally from international

709
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 2: experts into how that pandemic plan would look, and then

710
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 2: our response here in Australia was just the complete opposite

711
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: really in many ways of what that pandemic plan, you know,

712
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: what we had planned for. And so then that also

713
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 2: makes you think, well, why when we had the top

714
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: infectious disease experts in the country and around the world

715
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: come together to write this plan in twenty nineteen and

716
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: build on previous pandemic management plans, why and how did

717
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 2: we deviate so completely from that? And so I think

718
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: at the very least our leaders in Australia there was

719
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: a degree of reckless disregard for the consequences of decisions

720
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 2: that they were making when they were making those decisions

721
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: knowing that they would calls harm and knowing that they

722
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: went against established best practice plans. And I guess in

723
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: many ways that's you know, that's what the legal action

724
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: is about, and that's and the book talks a lot

725
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 2: about that pandemic plan and how it was completely ignored

726
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: during COVID.

727
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: Guys, the book is really a window into the universality

728
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: of this COVID experience and how it was used. I

729
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: think in very nefarious ways to shut down basic liberties

730
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: and in the end to harm a lot of people medically.

731
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: I've been talking guys to doctor Melissa McCann. You can

732
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: follow her on x dr Doctor Melissa McCann the website

733
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: COVID through Ouriyes, dot com dot au don't forget the

734
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: dot au part. And that's the title of the book,

735
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: COVID Through Our Eyes, edited by Professor Robert Clancy and

736
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: doctor Melissa McCann. Melissa, thank you very much for joining me.

737
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to answers. Lovely speak to you.

738
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 1: Mike Lindell will be the first to tell you this

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Speaker 1: Din e Shdnesh.

762
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Speaker 3: Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. The revival

763
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 3: of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible.

764
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. What if

765
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: there was going to be a resurrection of another people,

766
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: an enemy people of Israel?

767
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 3: The Dragon's prophecy, Watch it now or buy the DVD

768
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Speaker 3: at the dragonsprophecyfilm dot Com.

769
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 4: I'm going to try to today give a moral argument

770
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 4: for life after death, and it is what I call

771
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 4: a suppositional argument. Now, presuppositional argument is when you suppose

772
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 4: something to be true.

773
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: You don't prove it. You suppose it to be true,

774
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: and you ask yourself if it explains all the facts

775
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: in front of you that you do know to be true.

776
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: So let me give you an example of how this works.

777
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: Let's just say a woman is really baffled by the

778
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: fact that she's been dating this guy for years and

779
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: he is not proposed to her. So she thinks, why

780
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: isn't the guy committing And so finally she asks the friends,

781
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: and they go, hey, he has no intention of marrying you.

782
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: He's not going to propose. Now think of it. The

783
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: friends don't know the guy, but what they're doing is

784
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: they're making a proposition a conjecture, and the conjecture has

785
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: the power of explaining things that the alternative hypothesis can't explain.

786
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: So let's say the woman thinks, well, you know, maybe

787
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: maybe the guy hasn't proposed because it's not the right time.

788
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: Well maybe, so but it's more reasonable to suppose that

789
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: the guy is just making excuses because he doesn't really

790
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: want to get married, at least not to her. So

791
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: if someone else came along who was the right person,

792
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: he wouldn't worry about whether it is the right time

793
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: or not. So the point of the propositional argument is that,

794
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: even though it's conjectural, it makes sense of the facts

795
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: that are known. Now here's the propositional argument I'm going

796
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: to make about life after death. Unlike a material object,

797
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: which is a stone or a tree, well, a tree

798
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: is a living.

799
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 4: Thing, but it's not conscious in the way that we are.

800
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 4: We human beings inhabit two worlds. One is the way

801
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 4: things are and the other is the way things ought

802
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 4: to be.

803
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: So we have moral animals. We recognize that just as

804
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: there are natural laws that govern the movement of planets

805
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: and why stones roll down the hill and that kind

806
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: of thing, we also are moved by value. And these

807
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: values defy scientific explanation. In fact, they're outside the reach

808
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: of science. Why because science is about the way things are,

809
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: and values are about the way things should be or

810
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: ought to be. Now, I'm going to argue that the

811
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: whole idea of values of right and wrong, and in fact,

812
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: the kind of moral accompaniment of those ideas, things like

813
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: what goes around comes around, the whole idea of cosmic justice,

814
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: the whole idea that we believe in right and wrong.

815
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: Even though we know that people who do wrong often

816
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: come out ahead in the world and people who do

817
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: right often come out behind. Even though we know this

818
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: to be true, we nevertheless uphold this kind of standard

819
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: of moral values. And what I'm going to show is

820
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: that the very fact that we do this implies that

821
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: we have a presupposition, a kind of hidden expectation, that

822
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: there is another world in which all accounts will be settled,

823
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: in which ultimately the good people will be rewarded and

824
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: the bad people will be punished. And so our moral

825
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: compass is the reflection of that world inside of this one.

826
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: So it's almost like the other world is manifesting itself

827
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: in this world through what we experience in our own

828
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: minds as conscience. Now let me go into this in

829
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 1: the following way. We have as human beings this kind

830
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: of moral code. And by the way, it doesn't have

831
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: to be an external moral code, a set of rules

832
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: at ten commandments. I'm talking just about the moral code,

833
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: the moral voice inside of you. This is what Adam

834
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 1: Smith calls the impartial spectator. And the reason he calls

835
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: it the impartial spectator is that this moral voice is

836
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: not you. It is different than you. It is judging you.

837
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: Has the power not to compel you, but it has

838
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: the power to speak to you with unquestionable authority. You

839
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: can fall short of it, you can even reject what

840
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: morality commands, but you can't avoid some guilt or regret,

841
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: or at least awareness of what you have done. This

842
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: is why Aristotle calls man quote the beast with the

843
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: red cheeks. By the way, notice that even when people

844
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: who are caught doing really bad things, they will rarely

845
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: say of course I did that, I'm a thief. Of

846
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: course I killed the guy, I'm a murderer. What they

847
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: say is things like, well, yeah I lied, but I

848
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have any alternative. Oh yeah I stole,

849
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: but that was to support my family, or of course

850
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm a of course I did this, but I had

851
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: a good reason for doing it. So the point I'm

852
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: getting at here is that is that we live in

853
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: a scientific world. Let's call it an evolutionary world. But

854
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: evolution does nothing more than describe things again the way

855
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: they are. And by the way, the poor that evolution

856
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: gives us is that we are selfish creatures. This is

857
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: why the biologist Richard Dawkins wrote a book called the

858
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: Selfish Gene. Our genes really make us want to advance

859
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: our own interest in the world, to survive, to flourish,

860
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: to reproduce, and so that is the evolutionary drive. Notice

861
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 1: that the moral drive is completely in the opposite direction.

862
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: The moral drive goes against your self interest. In fact,

863
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: think about it. If morality were nothing more than selfishness,

864
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: then you wouldn't need it. You wouldn't need morality at all.

865
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: Your selfishness would be enough. The very fact that we

866
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: have morality as a check on selfishness. And this is

867
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: a refutation of all these sort of naturalistic theories of morality,

868
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: things like, well, the reason people are good to other

869
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: people as they expect them to be good to you

870
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: in return. In other words, it's a kind of mercenary morality.

871
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: Or it says something like the business guy is kind

872
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: to you when you come into the store, but that's

873
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: just because he wants you to come back. He's looking

874
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: for future business from you. But I would argue that

875
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: these things are not morality at all, because morality is

876
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: not the voice that says, hey, listen, you should be

877
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: truthful when it benefits you. Oh hey, you should be

878
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: nice to people who are in a position to help you.

879
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: The whole idea of morality is that you should be

880
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: nice to people, including the people who cannot help you

881
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: at all. So all of this is leading to a

882
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: rather startling conclusion, which is that the idea of morality

883
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: has within it the kind of hidden presumption or suggestion

884
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: of an afterlife. Or by an afterlife, I just mean

885
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: a field of cosmic justice in which ultimately all earthly

886
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: accounts are closed and settled. So what I'm getting at

887
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: is this, we humans, and this is by the way,

888
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: just as true of atheists as it is true of

889
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: religious believers. We inhabit two separate worlds. So the first

890
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: world is the evolutionary world. The scientific world. I'm going

891
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: to call this realm A. And then there's a next world.

892
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it Realm B. And what I'm

893
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: saying is we who live in realm ay have the

894
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 1: standards of Realm B built into our world. In fact,

895
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: built into ourselves. What a remarkable phenomenon this is. And

896
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: notice again that it is utterly outside the reach of science.

897
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: Science is about the empirical world, the material world, the

898
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: world of objects, and the laws that connect these objects

899
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: the one to the other. But about the whole domain

900
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: of morality of thou shalt and thou shalt not. Science

901
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to say at all. It's almost like

902
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: there's one half of the world, world of this world

903
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: that is outside the orbit of modern science altogether. And

904
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: the reason that we know that these moral standards are

905
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 1: not from this world but from another world is that,

906
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: unlike scientific laws, the moral laws have no ability to

907
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: compel us. So in scientific laws it must be the

908
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: stone must roll down the hill, gravity must operate. There's

909
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 1: no in a way exception to scientific laws, because these

910
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: laws are in a way compelled by nature itself. But

911
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: notice that this is not true of any moral law.

912
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: If you look at any of the Ten commandments, I

913
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 1: am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have other

914
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: gods before me, but lots of people do. So clearly

915
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: this moral principle can be flouted. It's not forced upon you.

916
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: You have to choose to do it. So the point

917
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is that it's like we have

918
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: this little whisper inside of us from the next world,

919
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: and it doesn't force us. It's like, this is the

920
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: way things should be, this is how you should act.

921
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: This thought that you have is wrong, you need to

922
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: correct your course. So it's almost as if we're getting

923
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,959
Speaker 1: a kind of echo from the next world into this one,

924
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: and it is prompting us of what the standards of

925
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: that other, better world are like. So our interests and

926
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: the reason that morality is kind of hard, and in fact,

927
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: why do people fall short of it so often is

928
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: really simple, and that is our interests in this world

929
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: or right in front of us. We have immediate benefits

930
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: to be gained by doing this or that. But the

931
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: moral voice is a little bit more distant. It's almost

932
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: like a voice coming to you from a tunnel, and

933
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: it is ultimately proposing a scheme that is not rectified

934
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: until you die, until the next world. So, in other words,

935
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: the benefits of morality are sort of long term. They

936
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 1: might be greater, it might even be ultimately eternal salvation

937
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: that is at stake, but it's eternal salvation that for

938
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: us short term creature is very narrow minded, very focused

939
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: on the present. We're like, that's gonna be, that's a

940
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: long ways away. People don't realize, well, you could die tomorrow,

941
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: but they're like, no, that's not gonna happen. I'm gonna

942
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: die tomorrow. It's a long ways away. And therefore most

943
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: people are more shortsightedly focused on their interests now as

944
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: opposed to what they should be planning or preparing for

945
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: in the world.

946
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 3: To come, subscribe to the Dinesh de sus A podcast

947
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 3: on Apple, Google, and Spotify, or watch on Rumble YouTube

948
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 3: and salemnow dot com.