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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: You can be sitting in the same meeting, hearing the

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Speaker 2: same words, facing the same problem, and experiencing it completely

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Speaker 2: differently from the person next to you. That difference can

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Speaker 2: leave us frustrated with each other, but often, no one

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Speaker 2: is actually doing anything wrong. We simply process the world differently. Today,

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Speaker 2: Enneagram teacher and workplace consultant, Joey Shuey, helps us understand

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Speaker 2: those differences through processing centers, and stances, two powerful ways

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Speaker 2: of seeing what may be happening beneath our behavior. And

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Speaker 2: toward the end of the conversation, Joey walks us through

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Speaker 2: all nine Enneagram types, helping you recognize your own way

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Speaker 2: of seeing and moving through the world. Understanding ourselves is important,

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Speaker 2: but understanding why other people don't think, feel, or respond

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Speaker 2: like we do can change the way we work and

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Speaker 2: live together. After a word from our sponsor, we'll dive

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Speaker 2: into our conversation for today. As you're listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 2: I'd love for you to follow us. And if you're

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Speaker 2: watching on YouTube, please subscribe. It's all free and it

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Speaker 2: helps Unhurried Living be discovered by more people. So thanks

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Speaker 2: so much. Well, as always, hi, friends. I'm Jan Padling,

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Speaker 2: and this is the Unhurried Living Podcast, where we inspire

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Speaker 2: you to rest deeper, live fuller, and lead better. Today,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking with Joey Stabile-Shuey about some fascinating dimensions of

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Speaker 2: the Enneagram that can help us better understand ourselves and

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Speaker 2: the people around us. Joey is a management consultant, executive coach,

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Speaker 2: and Enneagram theorist who has spent 17 years working with

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Speaker 2: thousands of employees and hundreds of teams. Her new book,

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Speaker 2: when working together doesn't work, takes the wisdom of the

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Speaker 2: Enneagram into our workplace and relationships in a very practical way.

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Speaker 2: Rather than simply identifying our type, Joey helps us understand

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Speaker 2: the deeper motivations and patterns underneath how we relate, communicate,

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Speaker 2: make decisions, and process what's happening around us. In our conversation,

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Speaker 2: we explore the doing, feeling, and thinking processing centers, including

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Speaker 2: what Joey calls the processing divide. We'll also talk about

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Speaker 2: the three Enneagram stances and how they shape our relationship

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Speaker 2: with time, our reference point, and even which center of

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Speaker 2: intelligence we tend to access last. Then toward the end,

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Speaker 2: Joey gives us a wonderfully accessible tour through all nine

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Speaker 2: Enneagram types, including some clues that may help you recognize

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Speaker 2: your own. If you've ever wondered why someone else can

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Speaker 2: experience the very same situation so differently than you do,

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Speaker 2: I think you'll find this conversation both illuminating and practical.

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Speaker 2: Here's my conversation with Joey Stabile Shuey. All right. Well,

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Speaker 2: Joey Shuey, thank you so much for saying yes to

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Speaker 2: the Unread Living podcast. It's nice to see you.

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Speaker 1: It's great to see you, Jim. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're going to dig right in here. And

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Speaker 2: as I already mentioned to you, most of the people

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Speaker 2: that listen to us have at least a rudimentary understanding

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Speaker 2: of the centers and the types. This has been a

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Speaker 2: conversation now that's been growing extensively. in our stream for

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Speaker 2: quite a while. I myself would call myself like a

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Speaker 2: delighted amateur. But I would love to just jump right

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Speaker 2: in here at the place where you sort of begin

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Speaker 2: and open up your book, which is the stances and

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Speaker 2: the centers. But I want to start with the centers

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Speaker 2: because you call them processing centers, which I hadn't really

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Speaker 2: heard before. And it just brought up a whole new

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Speaker 2: way for me to think about it. So could we

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Speaker 2: just start right there? What does it mean that we

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Speaker 2: process differently? What are those processing centers? I love that.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. So processing centers is certainly something

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Speaker 1: that my work has added to the conversation. And so

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Speaker 1: it's clear in my book that I have noticed in

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Speaker 1: my work, 30 years of knowing it, 17 years of

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Speaker 1: consulting with Enneagram in predominantly corporate spaces, that mistyping is

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Speaker 1: very prevalent. And so I start with, in a space

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Speaker 1: where I have not found Enneagram teachers maybe historically to start,

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Speaker 1: and that is just really taking time to delineate between

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Speaker 1: the three centers of intelligence, which then I make them

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Speaker 1: and allude to them later as processing centers. So it

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Speaker 1: starts as just the centers of intelligence. Doing, thinking, and feeling.

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Speaker 1: I say that while those centers of intelligence and that

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Speaker 1: understanding is foundational for Enneagram work, it is not Enneagram specific.

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Speaker 1: You know, Plato's tripartite soul brings doing, feeling, and thinking together.

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Speaker 1: Anywhere in history where you see the overlap of psychology

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Speaker 1: and philosophy, it's all about bringing those centers into balance.

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Speaker 1: So none of that is new. My insight after working

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Speaker 1: with so many people for so many years is that

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Speaker 1: while we may start with one center, and I like

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Speaker 1: to call it our home base or our filter, we

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Speaker 1: don't all stay in that starting point to process. So

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Speaker 1: doing is universal. Every single Enneagram type has a direct line,

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Speaker 1: a direct connection to the doing center. even if they

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Speaker 1: don't start there. And my language is, you will find

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Speaker 1: if you read my work, that I dropped the repressed language.

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Speaker 1: Because we all bring doing to engage the world. So

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Speaker 1: while fours, fives, and nines might engage doing least or last,

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Speaker 1: nobody is doing repressed because we all have to do

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Speaker 1: in the world. And that understanding... is very universal. Action

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Speaker 1: and implementation, right? If we're going to be doing something,

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Speaker 1: we're using it and everyone is all day, right? My understanding, Jim,

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Speaker 1: and from my perspective, I say, while there is an

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Speaker 1: imbalance for sure in the three, I believe we either

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Speaker 1: bring feeling to engage the world with doing or thinking.

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Speaker 1: And so to lead back to that processing centers, I

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Speaker 1: also identify what I refer to as a processing divide.

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Speaker 1: And the divide is between the five types who bring

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Speaker 1: feeling and doing to engage the world. And those types

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Speaker 1: are one, two, three, four, and six. And the five

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Speaker 1: types who bring doing and thinking to engage the world.

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Speaker 1: And those types are five, seven, eight. And so much misunderstanding,

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Speaker 1: I work with it mainly in corporate spaces, but in

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Speaker 1: relationships and personal relationships comes from the reality that one,

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Speaker 1: if you have types on either side of the divide, five, seven, eight,

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Speaker 1: nine are approaching any number of situations with logic and

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Speaker 1: objective reason. That's the thinking part with doing and the

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Speaker 1: other types are bringing feeling. And so their lens is

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Speaker 1: much more subjective. They feel more strongly about the interaction

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Speaker 1: and about their read of the situation. So when I

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Speaker 1: teach the feeling center, Jim, I say, sure, it absolutely

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Speaker 1: encapsulates emotion, but it's not limited to that. Just because

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Speaker 1: you're mentally working through something doesn't mean you're drawing from

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Speaker 1: the thinking center. And I think that's where most mistyping

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Speaker 1: and misunderstanding in the Enneagram comes from. And that is

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Speaker 1: a very important part of my teaching that helps clarify

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Speaker 1: the delineation between the thinking and feeling centers. So I acknowledge, yes,

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Speaker 1: feeling encapsulates emotions. Absolutely. And we all have We're all

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Speaker 1: equipped with all three. It's just that we use those

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Speaker 1: three centers based on our hardwiring in different orders. And

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Speaker 1: feeling also represents the human centric center. So our EQ

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Speaker 1: comes from the feeling center while our IQ comes from

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Speaker 1: the thinking center. And then what I like to say, Jim,

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Speaker 1: is I think the most important aspect of the feeling

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Speaker 1: center that it equips each of us with is our

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Speaker 1: personal and subjective lens. And so as you apply mental

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Speaker 1: energy to any situation, if you have life wisdom, personal experience,

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Speaker 1: knowledge of the individuals involved, all of that compassion and

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Speaker 1: empathy and understanding for other people, and that subjective lens

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Speaker 1: that comes from maybe knowing a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: the environment around you, that's important and it's all feel.

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Speaker 1: So then thinking is reserved for logic and objective reason.

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Speaker 1: It is why the logic processors, and I'll tee that up,

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Speaker 1: but I'll give you those three now, fives, sevens, and nines. Generally,

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Speaker 1: our understanding of those three is they're the most even

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Speaker 1: keeled dice. Why? Because they're not processing with the center

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Speaker 1: that brings anything other than objective reason. So there's not

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Speaker 1: going to be emotion involved necessarily.

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Speaker 2: So interesting. I have to ask right here because.

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Speaker 2: It's hard for me to understand this in some ways

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Speaker 2: because I'm in the thinking center, but I also am

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Speaker 2: a woman who has a lot of feelings.

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Speaker 1: Right. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: So how can I understand how I'm using my thinking here?

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Speaker 1: First?

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying? That's my go-to?

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Speaker 1: Yes. So here's how I set it up. I say,

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Speaker 1: look at it from triads. And if you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: the Enneagram, which as you have mentioned, your listeners are,

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Speaker 1: triads show us what our home base is, what our

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Speaker 1: starting point is, what our filter is. And so for eights, nines,

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Speaker 1: and ones, that's doing. We are in that gut triad.

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Speaker 1: We are naturally hardwired to be the most intuitive. And

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Speaker 1: you're going to hear me say hardwired a lot today,

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Speaker 1: and you see it a lot in my literature. One

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Speaker 1: of the spaces I separate from most Enneagram teachers, my

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Speaker 1: mother included, is... I don't find this to be personality driven.

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Speaker 1: I find this to be the singular element that drives personality.

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Speaker 1: And people touch on that in their language. They say, right,

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Speaker 1: this is how you're motivated. This is how you see

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Speaker 1: the world. My language is, this is your hardwiring. The

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Speaker 1: unique intersect of thinking, feeling, and doing based on type,

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Speaker 1: on those nine types, will speak to which of the

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Speaker 1: centers you use first, which of the centers you use most,

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Speaker 1: and which of the centers you use least or last,

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Speaker 1: which aren't necessarily the same thing. So for me as

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Speaker 1: an eight, and it's all relative to the other centers.

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Speaker 1: So for me as an eight, I think it's typical

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Speaker 1: for most eights, our starting point is doing, and we

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Speaker 1: stay there to process. Our connection to five is not

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Speaker 1: solely a stress mood. That arrow moving away from eight

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Speaker 1: points to our support center. So we bring thinking with doing.

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Speaker 1: We're very objective. So I say I use doing first

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Speaker 1: and most. And I don't use feeling least first. Eights

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Speaker 1: are passionate. Eights and fours are the most passionate types.

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Speaker 1: You can't be passionate without feeling. So I don't use

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Speaker 1: at least, but I definitely employ at last. And four

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Speaker 1: and eight, I think that's where so much misunderstanding comes from, right?

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Speaker 1: Because if the feeling center is the people-centric center, then

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Speaker 1: I think the misunderstanding about eights is that we are

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Speaker 1: engaging human understanding and feeling and just choosing to ignore it. No,

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Speaker 1: it's just what we employ. So eights, nines, and ones

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Speaker 1: use doing first. So the values that drive our decisions

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Speaker 1: are all similar. We'll all be tied to efficiency and practicality.

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Speaker 1: We're all uniquely fueled by anger. And Jim, the fueling

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Speaker 1: emotions is another space where I've advanced, I think, the language.

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Speaker 1: And Anger is an emotion that you well know, your

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Speaker 1: listeners well know. It's an emotion every time picks up

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Speaker 1: often and expresses, right? My language is, if it is

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Speaker 1: the fueling emotion for that triad, the members of that

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Speaker 1: group will be the least conscious of it. So if

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Speaker 1: you think about it in terms of a spiritual journey,

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Speaker 1: for eights, nines, and ones, if we're the least conscious

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Speaker 1: of our anger because it's always there, Think of how

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Speaker 1: many hurdles that can present in a spiritual journey, right?

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Speaker 2: And we are.

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Speaker 1: The truth is, eights, nines, and ones are the least

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Speaker 1: conscious of our own anger. Now, that anger is presented

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Speaker 1: in three very different ways. As an eight, I say

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Speaker 1: my anger, I don't discriminate who gets it. But I'm

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Speaker 1: so often seen and interpreted as anger when I, because

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Speaker 1: I'm not conscious of it, I think I'm in a

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Speaker 1: great mood. It's my intensity that is so often received

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Speaker 1: as anger. Ones, they internalize their anger. They're motivated to

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Speaker 1: be perfect. And so they settle for being good and

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Speaker 1: for being right. And I have compassion for every type.

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Speaker 1: I have the most compassion for those ones because that

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Speaker 1: anger that they already have and aren't realizing about themselves,

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Speaker 1: they're putting most of it on themselves internally. And then nines,

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Speaker 1: it's just cute to think about nines as being angry.

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Speaker 1: My husband, Billy, is a nine and we've been married

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Speaker 1: for 24 years and living with it. I know it's there.

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Speaker 1: I say that nines make incredible companions for eights. And

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Speaker 1: I used to say it was solely because they explain

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Speaker 1: us to people in a relatable way, because while nines

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Speaker 1: are objective, they are bringing thinking and doing to engage

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Speaker 1: the world. They're the most relatably objective easily. And what

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Speaker 1: I realized, Jim, is what makes nines truly such incredible

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Speaker 1: companions for eights is my anger doesn't offend him because

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Speaker 1: he's angry also. He's just as unconscious of it as

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Speaker 1: I am, ultimately.

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Speaker 2: My goodness.

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Speaker 1: So you've got those three in that triad. Now what

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Speaker 1: happens is three sixes and nines That's always been confusing

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Speaker 1: to be. And that's a tough space because there's more

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Speaker 1: sixes and nines than any other type. So those are

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Speaker 1: the only three interconnected types on the Enneagram. Three sixes

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Speaker 1: and nines. They're called the primary types. They often have

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Speaker 1: the hardest time landing confidently on type because they see

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Speaker 1: themselves in every number. And the upside of being a

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Speaker 1: primary type, because these types are interconnected, They move through

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Speaker 1: the centers of intelligence with much more grace and ease

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Speaker 1: than the other types. So it makes those types the

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Speaker 1: most adaptable naturally. The flip side of that is they

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Speaker 1: struggle often with imposter syndrome. Why? Because those are the

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Speaker 1: three types who they're the only three who do not

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Speaker 1: stay in their triad, don't stay in their home base

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Speaker 1: to process. That's where I came up with processing. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you, Jim, it came from parenting an Enneagram

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Speaker 1: 4 with my nine husband. So Billy and I have

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Speaker 1: two boys. They are 20 and 17. And Will is

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Speaker 1: an Enneagram 4. And looking back, I was always meeting

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Speaker 1: Will in his feeling. Always. Now, fours and eights are,

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Speaker 1: you know, the most intense numbers, the most passionate numbers.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of reasons for that. But Billy wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I was meeting Will in his feelings, fluctuating or not.

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Speaker 1: And Billy was stepping back and saying from a very

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Speaker 1: objective space, I don't understand this. I want to meet him.

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Speaker 1: I want to understand this. I want to understand the

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Speaker 1: why here. And so it occurred to me, and that's

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Speaker 1: where I started was with nines, that while nines have

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Speaker 1: the same filter as eights and ones, the same values

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Speaker 1: for doing, nines don't process with doing. And I think

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Speaker 1: if you look at nines in any capacity, no one's

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Speaker 1: going to look at a nine and say they're a

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Speaker 1: principle doer. But they are a principle observer, a principle thinker.

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Speaker 1: Their objective stance allows them to see both sides, allows

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Speaker 1: them to be that relatably objective. So when I looked

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Speaker 1: at that with nines, I said, okay, Let's look at

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Speaker 1: sixes and threes, and it all works. What's happening with

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Speaker 1: those three types is there is a counterclockwise shift in

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Speaker 1: the process. So while nines see what needs to be done,

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Speaker 1: they don't stay in doing the process. So eights and

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Speaker 1: ones roll up our sleeves and start doing, while nines

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Speaker 1: sit back and think, someone should really do something about this.

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Speaker 1: And they offer solutions to the rest of us all

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Speaker 1: the time. They're not oblivious. They're not lazy. The hardwiring

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Speaker 1: of a nine prevents them from making themselves the solution.

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Speaker 1: It's just not in their hardwiring. Every other type will

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Speaker 1: make themselves a solution, the solution to the issue before

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Speaker 1: a nine. When you look at sixes, sixes value information.

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Speaker 1: Their home base is thinking. They value the same analysis.

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Speaker 1: and objectivity that fives and sevens value. But sixes don't

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Speaker 1: trust all that information that they value. They trust their

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Speaker 1: personal read of the situation. They process with feeling. And

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Speaker 1: they value that information and carry it always into that

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Speaker 1: feeling and personally subjective space to say, how does this

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Speaker 1: match up with my sense of my environment? Because of

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Speaker 1: all the types Sixes are tethered the most to environment.

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Speaker 1: They have a personal radar. Sometimes I call it spidey senses.

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Speaker 1: They've got that out and they're always comparing the information

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Speaker 1: they've gathered to their personal experience. And then they can

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Speaker 1: decide to act ultimately. And then threes. I affectionately say

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Speaker 1: threes are my fake it till you make it people.

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Speaker 1: Because while they read the room, they start in feeling,

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Speaker 1: they value all of the relationships. and adaptable and emotional

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Speaker 1: intelligence um elements that are that twos threes and fours

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Speaker 1: from that triad are all gifted with but threes don't

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Speaker 1: stay here the process threes have to get moving they

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Speaker 1: escape and run from their uneasiness within by doing So

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Speaker 1: they process with action. So to bring all of that together, Jim,

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Speaker 1: while eights, nines, and ones start in the doing triad,

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Speaker 1: that's the home base. Twos, threes, and fours start in

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Speaker 1: the feeling triad. That's the starting point. Fives, sixes, and

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Speaker 1: sevens start in thinking. That's the starting point. Those three

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Speaker 1: primary types shift. So the doing processors are actually eights, ones,

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Speaker 1: and threes. And to pair that with my work, if

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Speaker 1: you look at leadership in corporate spaces, it flows from eights, ones,

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Speaker 1: and threes down. Because eights, ones, and threes are what

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Speaker 1: I call the motors or the doing processors. Now, that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily always a great thing. I think any Enneagram

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Speaker 1: type who is in the right position and doing their

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Speaker 1: own work can be incredible leaders. They can absolutely be

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Speaker 1: at the top. We just bring different gifts with that

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Speaker 1: and setbacks, right? And then I already mentioned it, five

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Speaker 1: sevens and nines are those types that are just staying

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Speaker 1: the most even. You're not going to get a lot

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Speaker 1: of emotional outbursts from them because it's not possible. They're

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Speaker 1: processing with thinking. And then twos, fours, and sixes. Those

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Speaker 1: are the three types processing the feeling. And those are

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Speaker 1: the types that I call community builders because people matter

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Speaker 1: the most to those three in terms of the way

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Speaker 1: they view the world because they're processing with that people-centric.

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Speaker 2: We'll continue after the break.

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Speaker 1: Oh, interesting.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I don't, well, since you're the one that

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Speaker 2: said you brought this forward, I can't say that I've

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Speaker 2: ever heard this conversation in this way. And that's why

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Speaker 2: I wanted to start there because I thought it was,

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Speaker 2: A fresh conversation, at least for me. And I'm presuming

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Speaker 2: for other people.

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: So it's another fascinating way to think about it than just,

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Speaker 2: you know, the centers and we're in the thinking. I

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Speaker 2: hadn't ever heard anybody unpack so eloquently how the nine,

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Speaker 2: the three, and the six shift. And I understood that.

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Speaker 2: So thank you. Thank you for making it understandable.

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Speaker 1: It brings so much insight and it helps, right? With

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Speaker 1: that mistyping that inevitably happens with three sixes and nines

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Speaker 1: because those types are just moving, right? And the last

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Speaker 1: thing I would say, just to go back to that

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Speaker 1: divide that I mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if you have ones, twos, threes, fours, and sixes

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Speaker 1: engaging the world with feeling and doing, those... types, like

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Speaker 1: what I like to say is if you can, if

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Speaker 1: you visualize it, the shift places threes in the nine

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Speaker 1: spot at the top. And I always congratulate threes. I say, okay,

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Speaker 1: you made it to the top. I know that's where

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be, but threes haven't arrived. What inevitably

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Speaker 1: happens is threes tend to, while they engage feeling at

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Speaker 1: the start, they kind of end up dropping feeling. So

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Speaker 1: it honors that stance move, right? They're in the stance

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Speaker 1: of three, sevens and eights where feeling is utilized least

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Speaker 1: or last. And so threes tend to be the one

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Speaker 1: type who kind of doubles down on doing. They end

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Speaker 1: up being on the bleeding edge of action. And when

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Speaker 1: I encounter them in leadership, they're kind of oblivious often

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Speaker 1: to the disconnects that are happening from the one, two, four,

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Speaker 1: six on the right and the five, seven, nine, eight

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Speaker 1: on the left, right? So when you then look, you say, okay,

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Speaker 1: threes are kind of over here. on the bleeding edge

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Speaker 1: of action, they straddle that divide very easily. What's happening

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Speaker 1: with ones, twos, fours, and sixes is those are the

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Speaker 1: types who have unrealized and unspoken expectations of other people. Remember,

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Speaker 1: the people center is the feeling center. And so, so

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Speaker 1: many issues in misunderstanding come from the reality that ones, twos, fours,

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Speaker 1: and sixes arrived with an expectation of the other people

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Speaker 1: in the group, in their relationship, at work. And when

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Speaker 1: those expectations are not met, which inevitably will happen, because

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Speaker 1: the feeling center does include emotion, those four types often

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Speaker 1: respond emotionally to an unmet expectation. The emotion more often

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Speaker 1: than not is anger. And that anger often leads to judgment.

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Speaker 1: It's all natural. It's all part of that hard wiring. Now, five, sevens, nines, eights,

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Speaker 1: those of us that were the only four engaging, thinking

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Speaker 1: and doing as we engage the world, we're not blameless

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Speaker 1: in the disconnect. For us, we don't have expectations necessarily

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Speaker 1: of other people because that would come with the feeling center.

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Speaker 1: Our expectations are much more broad, much more general in nature.

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Speaker 1: And when our expectations aren't met, we don't respond emotionally.

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Speaker 1: We don't respond with judgment. But we do dismiss. And

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Speaker 1: I find that that natural dismissiveness that comes from those

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Speaker 1: four types is picked up and read and internalized by

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Speaker 1: the ones, twos, fours, and sixes. Sometimes before the fives, sevens, nines, eights,

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Speaker 1: and nines and eights realize we've done it.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Can you describe for me a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about what that dismissing looks like?

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Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. Well, let's look at it. So part

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Speaker 1: of my soapbox about the existing literature, I'm so grateful

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Speaker 1: for it, Jim, and I'm aware that the majority of

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Speaker 1: Enneagram voices and teachers and influencers are they don't do

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Speaker 1: the kind of work I'm doing. Meaning they, whether they

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Speaker 1: got their start in it or they're continuing in it,

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Speaker 1: they gather the existed printed information, right? All the existing information.

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Speaker 1: That's what they learn from. And that's what they apply.

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Speaker 1: And more often than not, they're writing books. They're standing

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Speaker 1: and delivering to large audiences, but there's not a ton

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Speaker 1: of one-to-one exploring in terms of their work. For me,

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Speaker 1: that's the majority of my business. I am engaging people

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Speaker 1: more often than not in smaller groups as in teams

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Speaker 1: or in one-to-one introductions for people who don't even have

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Speaker 1: a background in Enneagram. So where I'm coming to this

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Speaker 1: is my insight isn't gained from printed work. It's gained

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Speaker 1: from human work, from applying this in a one-to-one space, right?

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Speaker 1: And so, so often, now that I know this, I'm

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Speaker 1: very aware that a lot of people mistype as eight.

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Speaker 1: And the existing language says that there are fewer fours

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Speaker 1: than any other type, and there are more sixes than

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Speaker 1: any other type. I believe there are fewer fours and

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Speaker 1: fewer eights, actual eights, than any other type. And there

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Speaker 1: are more sixes and more nine than any other. That's

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Speaker 1: what I find to be true. That's what I've tracked

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Speaker 1: in my companies that I consult in their HR software.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have data as a thinking doing individual

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Speaker 1: to back that up. And so what's happening with all

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Speaker 1: these types who are mistyped, what I say about eights,

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Speaker 1: I find that the predominant types who will mistype as

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Speaker 1: eights are fives and sixes. And while I mentioned earlier, Jim,

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Speaker 1: that 6s and 3s and 9s, they tend to mistype.

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Speaker 1: The reality is in the order of 6s for sure,

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Speaker 1: then 3. And 9s can, but 9s are gut-centered. They're intuitive.

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Speaker 1: So they don't mistype nearly as much as 3s and

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Speaker 1: 6s because they know themselves because of that intuition, right?

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Speaker 1: That being said, I believe after 6s, And I find

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Speaker 1: in my work, the type to mistype more often than

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Speaker 1: any other type is five. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: reasons for that. Fives and sixes are the most contrarian

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Speaker 1: types by nature. They both value information. So fives and

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Speaker 1: sixes go to the literature. When I'm consulting and executive

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Speaker 1: coaching a five or a six, now that I've written

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Speaker 1: my book, they want to talk about what's in the book.

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Speaker 1: give the information. So if you look at it from

423
00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:27,969
Speaker 1: a very broad perspective, that really mistyping isn't something that

424
00:29:28,010 --> 00:29:31,810
Speaker 1: has been talked about much. We're just accepting at face

425
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:36,590
Speaker 1: value what's happening. There's all these Enneagram indicators out there,

426
00:29:36,670 --> 00:29:41,530
Speaker 1: written tests, online tests. And in 30 years, Jim, I

427
00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:46,540
Speaker 1: still find those to be inaccurate more than half of

428
00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: the time. And it's not the test's fault. It's the

429
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:54,460
Speaker 1: reality of the human being taking the test is answering

430
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:58,810
Speaker 1: questions based on how they see themselves, right? And so

431
00:29:58,850 --> 00:30:03,410
Speaker 1: a terrific example is I just worked with a company

432
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:09,170
Speaker 1: who they hired me after they had their team take

433
00:30:09,890 --> 00:30:14,050
Speaker 1: a test. And I want to say I'm not throwing any...

434
00:30:13,950 --> 00:30:18,770
Speaker 1: I adore Russ Hudson. He endorsed my book. I love

435
00:30:18,970 --> 00:30:21,070
Speaker 1: all the book, all the work that the Enneagram Institute

436
00:30:21,090 --> 00:30:24,910
Speaker 1: has done. And they took the Enneagram Institute test and...

437
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: Every single person on the team, and it was a

438
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,110
Speaker 1: 10-person team, typed as an eight, a one, or a three.

439
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:39,570
Speaker 1: When in reality, there were no eights, one one, and

440
00:30:39,690 --> 00:30:43,390
Speaker 1: one three. But if you think about it, they're taking

441
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:48,530
Speaker 1: this test in a work environment where they are doing.

442
00:30:49,210 --> 00:30:52,670
Speaker 1: And so the answers that they gave that the test

443
00:30:52,780 --> 00:30:57,900
Speaker 1: showed was doing processing. which is eights, ones, and three, right?

444
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: So what I say about eights specifically is while we

445
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,300
Speaker 1: do have a motivating need to be against and we

446
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:11,060
Speaker 1: are fueled by anger, we don't argue. That is five

447
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: and six territory. And so many fives and sixes see

448
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,940
Speaker 1: the anger in eights and that motivating need to be

449
00:31:19,980 --> 00:31:23,660
Speaker 1: against and their contrarian mind clicks into place and they say,

450
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:28,570
Speaker 1: that's me, right? Now, if you understand it from that perspective,

451
00:31:29,090 --> 00:31:33,070
Speaker 1: then what the literature is left with, Jim, is you

452
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:36,950
Speaker 1: have fives mistyping not only as eights. I work with

453
00:31:36,990 --> 00:31:42,540
Speaker 1: fives who have mistyped as every possible number. Because there's

454
00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:48,100
Speaker 1: no direct connection to responsiveness in fives, they're the only

455
00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: type who has no line to one, two, or six.

456
00:31:53,530 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: So fives show us that they love. They don't tell us.

457
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: They're not effusive with emotions because feeling is what they

458
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,660
Speaker 1: are using least. They're using doing and thinking more, right?

459
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,090
Speaker 1: And so fives see themselves often as twos because the

460
00:32:13,230 --> 00:32:15,950
Speaker 1: way they show you they love you is by doing

461
00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:20,370
Speaker 1: for you, right? They mistype as ones and threes all

462
00:32:20,410 --> 00:32:25,190
Speaker 1: the time, which can be attributed to that competency group

463
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: that all three are in. And if you think about it,

464
00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:33,220
Speaker 1: fives can be incredibly dynamic. Their only lines are to

465
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,540
Speaker 1: seven and eight. Seven and eight are big personalities in

466
00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: that independent stance. And so if all of these fives

467
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,930
Speaker 1: historically have mistyped and have not been steered correctly, then

468
00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:48,690
Speaker 1: most of the existing literature on fives kind of has

469
00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:56,850
Speaker 1: the very basic, on the spectrum, kind of robot-like, I

470
00:32:56,890 --> 00:33:01,290
Speaker 1: think fives are just the literature does them no service

471
00:33:01,490 --> 00:33:03,709
Speaker 1: and they read it and say, that's not me. And

472
00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:09,540
Speaker 1: so it perpetuates the mistype. Sixes, if you look at

473
00:33:09,860 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: so many sixes who are reactive, just like eights are

474
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,900
Speaker 1: the most, I say, well, fours and eights are the

475
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: most passionate and intense. I find sixes and eights to

476
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:24,380
Speaker 1: be the most passionate about our work in our work environments.

477
00:33:24,740 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: And so if we're both reactive in our environment, then

478
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,340
Speaker 1: sixes are going to mistype not only as twos and

479
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,180
Speaker 1: fours because they move into that feeling space to process

480
00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:39,570
Speaker 1: with twos and fours. Sixes mistype as eights, ones, and

481
00:33:39,610 --> 00:33:46,370
Speaker 1: threes all the time, especially if they're counterphobic leaning. And

482
00:33:46,410 --> 00:33:48,590
Speaker 1: so if you've got all this mistyping from fives, the

483
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:51,630
Speaker 1: five literature is inadequate. If you've got all this mistyping

484
00:33:51,650 --> 00:33:55,130
Speaker 1: from sixes, the six literature is inadequate. When you look

485
00:33:55,150 --> 00:33:58,730
Speaker 1: at the body of literature on sixes, it's talking about

486
00:33:58,770 --> 00:34:04,370
Speaker 1: the most phobic, meek sixes. And sixes with any kind

487
00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:08,430
Speaker 1: of counterphobic lean read that because that's what they value,

488
00:34:08,630 --> 00:34:13,730
Speaker 1: the information, and they don't identify with it. That makes

489
00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:14,470
Speaker 1: so much sense.

490
00:34:15,989 --> 00:34:19,810
Speaker 2: I wonder if we could... pivot from the processing and

491
00:34:19,830 --> 00:34:23,500
Speaker 2: the centers and that and and maybe dig a little

492
00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: bit into stances because again you've renamed them in ways

493
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,660
Speaker 2: i hadn't heard before and i'd like to just unpack

494
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: that a bit i've heard of them of course as

495
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,130
Speaker 2: aggressive which i always bristled against because i'm like i'm

496
00:34:36,170 --> 00:34:38,330
Speaker 2: not aggressive i'm assertive so i liked it when they

497
00:34:38,370 --> 00:34:42,450
Speaker 2: called them assertive assertive assertive dependent and withdrawn it was

498
00:34:42,489 --> 00:34:45,090
Speaker 2: how i would have heard it before but you name

499
00:34:45,130 --> 00:34:50,500
Speaker 2: them independent responsive, and solitary. So I'm wondering, can you

500
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,860
Speaker 2: explain why you changed the names? What does that mean?

501
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,500
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

502
00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: Who's in the stances? How do the stances help us?

503
00:34:58,340 --> 00:35:02,620
Speaker 1: Sure. So one way that I knew that I was

504
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,030
Speaker 1: on the right track with identifying the processing of threes, sixes,

505
00:35:07,070 --> 00:35:10,110
Speaker 1: and nines is when you allow for the visual of

506
00:35:10,170 --> 00:35:14,770
Speaker 1: the shift that those three make to process were then

507
00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:20,939
Speaker 1: aligned in stances. And I have always thought stance work

508
00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: was incredibly impactful, especially in a spiritual journey, because it

509
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: shows us where the glaring imbalance is in our life, right?

510
00:35:32,050 --> 00:35:35,750
Speaker 1: So once three shift to that nine space in doing,

511
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:39,810
Speaker 1: to process with action and doing. Three sevens and eights

512
00:35:39,850 --> 00:35:43,010
Speaker 1: are aligned. And you can see then, Jim, on the Enneagram,

513
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:47,379
Speaker 1: we're the furthest from feelings. I acknowledge that is absolutely true.

514
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: We engage feeling least or last. So it means we're

515
00:35:50,739 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: not going to be very emotional. It means as a group,

516
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,570
Speaker 1: I find that we, especially as we are seen by others,

517
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: we are the most confident. We all think fast. We

518
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:07,710
Speaker 1: move fast. We think on our feet and process very quickly.

519
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:11,750
Speaker 1: And the common thread for the three of us is action.

520
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:17,190
Speaker 1: So threes are doubling down on it. Eights are utilizing

521
00:36:17,330 --> 00:36:22,390
Speaker 1: action supported by thinking and objectivity. And sevens are utilizing thinking.

522
00:36:22,450 --> 00:36:24,790
Speaker 1: That's where they start. They're aligned to one means they

523
00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:27,430
Speaker 1: support it with action. So the common thread for the

524
00:36:27,469 --> 00:36:31,350
Speaker 1: three of us is action. And what is historically said

525
00:36:31,469 --> 00:36:33,930
Speaker 1: is we all have the most energy, but that it

526
00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:36,930
Speaker 1: stops there. Well, Jim, the truth is we all have

527
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: the most energy for action. If doing is not on

528
00:36:41,219 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: the table, you're not going to get that same energy

529
00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:49,330
Speaker 1: from three sevens. We're all comfortable being big in the room.

530
00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:53,380
Speaker 1: And as a group, as a stance, we are the

531
00:36:53,600 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: least affected by our environment. And so that's where I

532
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: came up with independent. I really pulled in in a

533
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,890
Speaker 1: much more impactful way, in my opinion, because I think

534
00:37:09,930 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: it is more important to realize our reference point. And

535
00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:18,190
Speaker 1: our reference point is dictated by Stan. And so the

536
00:37:18,290 --> 00:37:21,510
Speaker 1: reference point of three sevens and eights is not internal

537
00:37:22,290 --> 00:37:26,379
Speaker 1: and it is not external. My language is it's independent.

538
00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of wherever we want it to be. And

539
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: when you look at that, it means the world could

540
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:38,430
Speaker 1: be blowing up next to a three, seven or eight.

541
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:42,110
Speaker 1: We can choose to do something about it if we want.

542
00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 1: Our hardwiring dictates that. But because of our independent reference point,

543
00:37:47,219 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: we can also stand in the middle of the explosion

544
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: and be unaffected by it. We can stand independent from it.

545
00:37:55,090 --> 00:37:59,150
Speaker 1: It is our superpower that often ends up being our kryptonite.

546
00:38:00,890 --> 00:38:05,820
Speaker 1: And so aggressive is okay to look at for that

547
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,980
Speaker 1: stance first. If you look at it from the perspective

548
00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:13,030
Speaker 1: of motivation, even though we remind people all the time,

549
00:38:13,110 --> 00:38:17,549
Speaker 1: Enneagram's about motivation and not behavior, people still tend to

550
00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:22,049
Speaker 1: make that, to bleed those two together. I think it's

551
00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:24,690
Speaker 1: why there was a faction for a time of people

552
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:28,930
Speaker 1: who said, okay, we understand stances, except sevens shouldn't be

553
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:31,910
Speaker 1: in the aggressive stance with eights and threes, ones should be.

554
00:38:33,540 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: And that was really all those people, what they were

555
00:38:36,219 --> 00:38:39,820
Speaker 1: doing were looking at behavior and they were looking at

556
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: doing process is what they were doing ultimately, right? But

557
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,630
Speaker 1: three sevens and eights, the reality is we're all the

558
00:38:48,670 --> 00:38:54,310
Speaker 1: most aggressively motivated to get our way. And because we

559
00:38:54,370 --> 00:38:58,069
Speaker 1: can stand independent with that reference point, we live the

560
00:38:58,370 --> 00:39:06,140
Speaker 1: easiest in the illusion of control. And real spiritual growth

561
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: will not happen for three sevens and eights until we

562
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,779
Speaker 1: come against something in our lives that we cannot stand

563
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,550
Speaker 1: independent from, that we cannot live in the illusion of control.

564
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:21,190
Speaker 1: And because of our hardwiring, that doesn't happen very often.

565
00:39:21,830 --> 00:39:25,590
Speaker 1: Now look at the opposite. If you allow for independent,

566
00:39:25,830 --> 00:39:29,030
Speaker 1: the opposite of that group would be the dependence dance.

567
00:39:29,770 --> 00:39:33,029
Speaker 1: Once twos, and sixes. And while I do find there

568
00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: are more sixes and nines, I also believe that half

569
00:39:36,989 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: of the world, half of the population generally are ones, twos,

570
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:43,500
Speaker 1: and sixes. That continues to be true in the rooms

571
00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:45,900
Speaker 1: I'm in and the companies I'm in. And that's a

572
00:39:46,180 --> 00:39:51,930
Speaker 1: lot of people in the world who have an external

573
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:56,030
Speaker 1: reference point. So that's dictated for ones, twos and sixes.

574
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:59,230
Speaker 1: It's part of the hard wiring. They can't change it.

575
00:39:59,750 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: And so the minute they can embrace, especially when they're

576
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: trying to do work on a spiritual journey, the minute

577
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: they can embrace that they're tethered to their environment and

578
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: while their focus can shift, their reference point will always

579
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,390
Speaker 1: be external. In 30 years, I have yet to meet

580
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,779
Speaker 1: a one, two, or six who likes the term dependent.

581
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: So I think the better term is responsive. And the

582
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:33,370
Speaker 1: way I say that coming out of the independent explanation is,

583
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:35,950
Speaker 1: if the world's blowing up next to a one, two,

584
00:40:36,010 --> 00:40:40,730
Speaker 1: or six, their hardwiring dictate that they feel responsible for

585
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: what they see. They are physically motivated to do something.

586
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,620
Speaker 1: They're all bringing doing and feeling. And so people will

587
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:55,460
Speaker 1: be an important piece of that. And their personal lens

588
00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,419
Speaker 1: will be an important piece of that. And they beat

589
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,049
Speaker 1: themselves up as a group, ones, twos and sixes. They're

590
00:41:04,070 --> 00:41:07,069
Speaker 1: pretty hard on themselves. Often when I see it in

591
00:41:07,110 --> 00:41:12,330
Speaker 1: workspaces is because they had a meticulous list of all

592
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: that they needed to accomplish in a day or a week.

593
00:41:16,370 --> 00:41:17,650
Speaker 1: And they get to the end of that day or

594
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:20,130
Speaker 1: the end of that week and they didn't get to everything.

595
00:41:20,930 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: And I'm always extending grace to those types and leading them, hopefully,

596
00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:31,780
Speaker 1: to extend grace to themselves because unless they become incapacitated

597
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,819
Speaker 1: in a serious way or blind, there will never be

598
00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:38,049
Speaker 1: an end to the list. There will never be an

599
00:41:38,130 --> 00:41:42,750
Speaker 1: arrival because of that external reference point. There will always

600
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:46,899
Speaker 1: be more for them to do. to make the world better.

601
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: And so that's a good way to look at ones, twos,

602
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: and sixes as a group. They're very responsive. That leaves

603
00:41:56,300 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: us with fours, fives, and nines. Once nines shift to

604
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,380
Speaker 1: the sixth space in thinking to process with logic and

605
00:42:04,420 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: objective reason, all three types are aligned. And visually, when

606
00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:11,860
Speaker 1: you look at the Enneagram with that shift, they're the

607
00:42:11,980 --> 00:42:15,970
Speaker 1: furthest from doing at the top of the Enneagram. Now,

608
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:22,730
Speaker 1: what I say, I was quick to remove repressed for

609
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:26,950
Speaker 1: them because fours, fives, and nines are doing all the time.

610
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,299
Speaker 1: Every type engages the world with doing. What doing least

611
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:35,259
Speaker 1: or last means for the hardwiring of those types is

612
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,700
Speaker 1: they generally do what they like and what they want

613
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:42,220
Speaker 1: in the order that they like and that they want.

614
00:42:42,830 --> 00:42:47,690
Speaker 1: and on a timeline of their own choosing. And as

615
00:42:47,710 --> 00:42:52,900
Speaker 1: a result, any outside pressure to that doing leads to

616
00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: an intuitive, stubborn response. Those are the most stubborn types.

617
00:42:58,180 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: And that explains why. They don't want to be told

618
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:03,700
Speaker 1: what to do, when to do, how to do. I

619
00:43:05,530 --> 00:43:09,330
Speaker 1: actually love the term withdrawing for that group because they

620
00:43:09,550 --> 00:43:15,170
Speaker 1: are tethered internally. Their reference point is internal. I shifted

621
00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:19,689
Speaker 1: it to solitary to honor the reality that while fours, fives,

622
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:24,510
Speaker 1: and nines can look very similar, just like ones, twos,

623
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:28,060
Speaker 1: and sixes, and just like threes, sevens, and eights, their

624
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: internal terrain is very unique and different between the three

625
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,379
Speaker 1: of them. So solitary, I think, honors that reality that

626
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,700
Speaker 1: while they may look similar, they're going to be the

627
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: hardest to for ones, twos, and sixes to read all

628
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,300
Speaker 1: of those elements. Their internal terrain is very unique, especially

629
00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:50,190
Speaker 1: those fours, because while there's a common thread of doing

630
00:43:50,430 --> 00:43:53,529
Speaker 1: with threes, sevens, and eight, a common thread of feeling

631
00:43:53,989 --> 00:43:57,549
Speaker 1: with ones, twos, and sixes, the common thread in the

632
00:43:57,890 --> 00:44:02,140
Speaker 1: solitario withdrawing stance lies with fives and nine, who are

633
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,260
Speaker 1: bringing thinking and doing to engage the world. And fours,

634
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: who are so complex and feel like they're on the

635
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,140
Speaker 1: outside often, it makes sense. Because even in their own stance,

636
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:16,470
Speaker 1: the one place where we can find that easy camaraderie,

637
00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:21,170
Speaker 1: they are coming with feeling instead of thinking. All right.

638
00:44:21,210 --> 00:44:23,529
Speaker 2: Well, Joey, you've given me and all of us a

639
00:44:23,650 --> 00:44:25,550
Speaker 2: lot to think about. And I'm wondering, we're going to

640
00:44:25,570 --> 00:44:28,069
Speaker 2: do sort of a speed round here. And I'm going

641
00:44:28,090 --> 00:44:31,330
Speaker 2: to ask if maybe in a 30-second way, can you

642
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: take us through all nine types and maybe give us

643
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: just one piece of advice or counsel for what we

644
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:39,140
Speaker 2: can do when we next step into our work environment?

645
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,100
Speaker 2: What would help us relationally or in our work?

646
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,620
Speaker 1: I'd love to do that. We'll start. And I think

647
00:44:45,660 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: what I will include in all of these is something

648
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: I've added to each type. And I'm always looking to simplify.

649
00:44:53,020 --> 00:44:59,810
Speaker 1: And I, again, think part of mistyping comes from nobody

650
00:45:00,690 --> 00:45:04,629
Speaker 1: really teaches with absolutes in Enneagram. And if I've had

651
00:45:04,989 --> 00:45:08,150
Speaker 1: one critique of my work and my book, it's the absolute.

652
00:45:08,270 --> 00:45:11,250
Speaker 1: People don't like that. But I think it's what makes

653
00:45:11,390 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: mistyping so prevalent, right? You have to have spaces where

654
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:17,580
Speaker 1: you say, because of hardwiring, this is true. So I

655
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,860
Speaker 1: teach with what I call non-negotiables for each type, meaning

656
00:45:20,940 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: while it can happen in other numbers here and there,

657
00:45:23,660 --> 00:45:28,250
Speaker 1: it has to be true to be that. Okay. So

658
00:45:28,350 --> 00:45:35,739
Speaker 1: the non-negotiable for ones is that pervasive inner And for

659
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:41,470
Speaker 1: ones in workspaces, what they want because they're processing with doing,

660
00:45:41,770 --> 00:45:48,290
Speaker 1: but they're supporting that with that human centric people understanding

661
00:45:48,330 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: subjective lens. Ones want consensus. And yet they're not hardwired

662
00:45:55,300 --> 00:46:01,190
Speaker 1: to defer consensus. And so I'm reminding ones always that

663
00:46:01,210 --> 00:46:04,419
Speaker 1: when they are so sure that their way is the

664
00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:08,620
Speaker 1: only way or the best way forward, as conscientious as

665
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: that is, that too many non-negotiables, that natural inflexibility at

666
00:46:14,820 --> 00:46:20,609
Speaker 1: times is their reminder that they're not being objective. Because

667
00:46:20,650 --> 00:46:24,070
Speaker 1: it's highly subjective to believe your way is the best

668
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: way or the only way. And so I'm always reminding ones,

669
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:31,670
Speaker 1: limit your non-negotiables. Look at where you can be flexible

670
00:46:32,070 --> 00:46:35,540
Speaker 1: because just that move will bring thinking into balance for one.

671
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:40,649
Speaker 1: The non-negotiable for twos is that they feel what other

672
00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: people are feeling before they ever connect to their own feelings, wants,

673
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: and needs. And while they are truly hardwired to sense

674
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,730
Speaker 1: and meet our needs before recognizing their own, That's what

675
00:46:55,810 --> 00:47:00,069
Speaker 1: gets them in the most trouble, personally and professionally. And

676
00:47:00,110 --> 00:47:03,850
Speaker 1: the one thing they need to do in order to

677
00:47:03,989 --> 00:47:08,090
Speaker 1: be more balanced is the one thing they're not hardwired for.

678
00:47:08,830 --> 00:47:13,959
Speaker 1: And that is solitude and introspection. That's their secure move

679
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: to four. Fours represent solitude and introspection, just like fives

680
00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: and nines, the other solitary and withdrawing types, so beautifully.

681
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:26,950
Speaker 1: But because of their own uneasiness within, just like threes

682
00:47:26,969 --> 00:47:30,140
Speaker 1: and fours in their triad, they're not wired to look

683
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: at that internally. And the thing twos need to do

684
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: is not just build time to be alone, but then

685
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:42,510
Speaker 1: create ways to look internally and figure out what they want,

686
00:47:42,850 --> 00:47:46,350
Speaker 1: what they need from their environment. And boundaries will come

687
00:47:46,450 --> 00:47:48,049
Speaker 1: from that automatically.

688
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:50,290
Speaker 2: Threes.

689
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:57,500
Speaker 1: Threes are so successful and their non-negotiables contribute to that.

690
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,110
Speaker 1: I say that threes actually have two. The first is

691
00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:06,110
Speaker 1: that threes disconnect from negative emotion, any negative emotion, and

692
00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:10,710
Speaker 1: they can project positivity in its place. And while that

693
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: helps them to succeed, the Achilles heel of threes, aside

694
00:48:17,219 --> 00:48:22,790
Speaker 1: from doubling down on actions, And being Switzerland, because they

695
00:48:22,830 --> 00:48:25,259
Speaker 1: want to be liked. When you look at threes, sixes,

696
00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:28,020
Speaker 1: and nines, threes and nines want to be liked much

697
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:34,100
Speaker 1: more than sixes. And it keeps them from engaging in

698
00:48:34,219 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: ways that might ruffle feathers. And yet, because of their

699
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: hard wiring, they are the most equipped to inspire. But

700
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: that means sometimes maybe not being liked. And so the

701
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: work for threes is really looking at having hard conversations

702
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,390
Speaker 1: because they have the capacity to do it, but they

703
00:48:57,450 --> 00:49:03,290
Speaker 1: tend to avoid it. Fours, the non-negotiable for fours is

704
00:49:03,330 --> 00:49:07,549
Speaker 1: the fluctuating emotions and seeing what's missing. And that does

705
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: not mean that fours are disappointed all the time. It

706
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: just means they don't trust anything that's too upbeat, that's

707
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: too optimistic. The reality for fours is that they are

708
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,180
Speaker 1: the only type who has no direct line to three, seven,

709
00:49:23,340 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: or eight. So while every other type has independence hardwired

710
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: in us, fours don't. It's why they take everything so personally.

711
00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:38,219
Speaker 1: If they can realize that, then they can begin to

712
00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: take steps, to allow for some independence. It's not as

713
00:49:45,420 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: easy for them, but they can look at that in

714
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: a new way. Fives are the flip. Fives are the

715
00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: only type who have no line to one, two, or six.

716
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,060
Speaker 1: And so while I tell the world to give fives

717
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: a little more grace, because when they are being responsive

718
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,620
Speaker 1: in any way to any of us with a situation,

719
00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:08,490
Speaker 1: they made a conscious choice to do it. Whereas for

720
00:50:08,570 --> 00:50:12,980
Speaker 1: all the other types, it's hardwired in. What fives need

721
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:20,219
Speaker 1: to engage is that feeling center, that subjective lens. And

722
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: they're hardwired because they support thinking with more thinking. That's

723
00:50:24,219 --> 00:50:27,469
Speaker 1: the line to seven. They are the most hardwired to

724
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:34,330
Speaker 1: be dismissive. And fives can work on catching themselves dismissing

725
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:40,490
Speaker 1: others and allowing for some more patience, some more grace.

726
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,290
Speaker 1: And just that move right there will bring in feeling

727
00:50:45,630 --> 00:50:50,430
Speaker 1: and more into balance for them. The non-negotiable for sixes,

728
00:50:50,530 --> 00:50:52,489
Speaker 1: and I should have given it for fives, the non-negotiable

729
00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:55,870
Speaker 1: for fives is the social battery. So it is not

730
00:50:55,930 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: work that makes fives tired. It is people. And that's

731
00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: helpful to understand. Sixes like threes have two non-negotiables. The

732
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:12,109
Speaker 1: first is what I call superfluous context. Critical context for

733
00:51:12,250 --> 00:51:14,790
Speaker 1: every other type will fit in a much smaller space

734
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:18,589
Speaker 1: than it will for sixes because they value information, they

735
00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:22,230
Speaker 1: offer a lot, and they want a lot. And that's okay.

736
00:51:23,090 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: What sixes need to realize with that non-negotiable, the other

737
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:32,939
Speaker 1: being contingency planning, is they process with feeling. And while

738
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: a six's thinking can be influenced, their feeling cannot. And

739
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,940
Speaker 1: because they process in a space that cannot be influenced,

740
00:51:41,810 --> 00:51:45,690
Speaker 1: Sixes often employ that superfluous context when they're not on

741
00:51:45,730 --> 00:51:48,250
Speaker 1: the same page with the people around them. And yet

742
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:50,990
Speaker 1: they feel so strongly about being on the same page

743
00:51:51,550 --> 00:51:54,460
Speaker 1: and their minds can be changed. They believe if they

744
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: just give more context and more information, we will feel

745
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 1: the way they feel about something. And we're not wired to.

746
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 1: Sevens non-negotiable is living life in the positive half range

747
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,970
Speaker 1: of emotion. That's real for sevens. And so the issue

748
00:52:13,110 --> 00:52:17,890
Speaker 1: with sevens is not ever the actual issue. It's that

749
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:21,850
Speaker 1: the sevens are not hardwired to see the problem as

750
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:24,710
Speaker 1: an issue or as a problem. That's where they need

751
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:27,610
Speaker 1: to work. And that's going to come just like it

752
00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: does for twos, which are their mirror opposite. That's going

753
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:38,969
Speaker 1: to come with solitude and intersection in five. Eights are

754
00:52:39,010 --> 00:52:41,790
Speaker 1: the only type on the Enneagram. I already mentioned our

755
00:52:41,830 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: non-negotiable is that conflict energizes us. We are the only

756
00:52:47,219 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: type who does not have a natural focus shift to self.

757
00:52:53,940 --> 00:52:59,049
Speaker 1: A self-focus is where threes, fours, and sevens start. And

758
00:52:59,110 --> 00:53:01,430
Speaker 1: eights are the only type with no line to a

759
00:53:01,469 --> 00:53:05,190
Speaker 1: focus on self. And what I say about a self-focus is,

760
00:53:05,989 --> 00:53:09,420
Speaker 1: is it means that threes, fours, and sevens who start there,

761
00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: they know what they want from their environment and they

762
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:15,580
Speaker 1: believe in their ability to get it. So threes, fours,

763
00:53:15,620 --> 00:53:18,859
Speaker 1: and sevens have this natural influence in the world. Well,

764
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:23,380
Speaker 1: for eights, because we don't have a move there, we don't,

765
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,779
Speaker 1: we aren't approaching anything believing we have influence. And as

766
00:53:28,820 --> 00:53:34,180
Speaker 1: a result, we don't realize our impact. And because of

767
00:53:34,260 --> 00:53:38,109
Speaker 1: our self-confidence, of our intensity, because of all of those

768
00:53:38,170 --> 00:53:40,489
Speaker 1: elements that make up an eight, it is important to

769
00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:43,730
Speaker 1: realize that we do have impact, whether we intended it

770
00:53:43,890 --> 00:53:49,290
Speaker 1: or not. And finally, nines. Non-negotiable for nines is that

771
00:53:49,310 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: they see both sides. And while they're wired for harmony

772
00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:55,860
Speaker 1: and it makes them adept at being a mediator and

773
00:53:55,900 --> 00:54:00,660
Speaker 1: a peacekeeper, nines are the most relatably objective type and

774
00:54:00,700 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: they must speak up more in the world. It is their,

775
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:12,549
Speaker 1: I believe, social responsibility because we need their insight. We

776
00:54:12,610 --> 00:54:16,170
Speaker 1: need their ability to see the sides that are being presented.

777
00:54:17,110 --> 00:54:20,670
Speaker 1: And they do so much for us, but because they

778
00:54:20,690 --> 00:54:24,529
Speaker 1: don't realize their presence matters, they speak up so much

779
00:54:24,610 --> 00:54:25,410
Speaker 1: less than they should.

780
00:54:28,270 --> 00:54:30,049
Speaker 2: Well, you did it. That was.

781
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:33,910
Speaker 1: Okay, good, good, good, good.

782
00:54:34,110 --> 00:54:38,390
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Oh, Joey, thank you. I realized that

783
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 2: we could keep talking.

784
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:41,379
Speaker 1: We could go forever. That's right.

785
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,700
Speaker 2: I wish we are not one of those three-hour podcasts.

786
00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 2: I apologize for that. No problem.

787
00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: No problem.

788
00:54:48,180 --> 00:54:50,340
Speaker 2: But I do want to recommend, you can hear more

789
00:54:50,450 --> 00:54:54,629
Speaker 2: wonderful goodness when working together doesn't work. All of this

790
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:57,029
Speaker 2: is in there. I'm glad we spent some time on

791
00:54:57,050 --> 00:55:00,240
Speaker 2: the processing centers and the stances, because I think you

792
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,660
Speaker 2: have some refreshed language there that I think could help

793
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,660
Speaker 2: people who want to take a little bit deeper dive

794
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: or have a little bit better understanding of how they work, right?

795
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate that. So thank you.

796
00:55:12,980 --> 00:55:13,900
Speaker 1: Is there anything else.

797
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,820
Speaker 2: You would want to say to us to encourage us

798
00:55:15,860 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: and maybe even tell us how we can find you online?

799
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,630
Speaker 1: Absolutely great. My website is WE, and WE stands for

800
00:55:23,730 --> 00:55:31,030
Speaker 1: Working Enneagram. So wesolutions.life, L-I-F-E. That's a great place to start.

801
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: And I have an Enneagram teacher social media account, but

802
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,739
Speaker 1: I'm not really using it much. So the place to

803
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 1: find my work, all of this work that went into

804
00:55:43,420 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: the book is Enneagram Parents on Instagram and Facebook. And

805
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,509
Speaker 1: what you will get is a bonus there. You're not

806
00:55:51,550 --> 00:55:54,690
Speaker 1: just going to get my teaching. You will get my husband, Dr.

807
00:55:54,730 --> 00:55:58,050
Speaker 1: Billy Shuey, who is a nine. He has his degree

808
00:55:58,310 --> 00:56:03,630
Speaker 1: in educational leadership and his doctoral treatise was written on

809
00:56:03,730 --> 00:56:07,739
Speaker 1: Enneagram and education. So while it originally was set up

810
00:56:07,860 --> 00:56:10,980
Speaker 1: for marriage and parenting, you're going to get what I

811
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:14,180
Speaker 1: say from two doers and thinkers. You're going to get

812
00:56:14,219 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: a lot of logical, bite-sized chunks of Enneagram wisdom.

813
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:21,020
Speaker 2: Wonderful. And you said that's on Instagram?

814
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,180
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook.

815
00:56:23,219 --> 00:56:24,660
Speaker 2: And what's the name of the handle?

816
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: Enneagram Parents.

817
00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:30,630
Speaker 2: Wonderful. Thank you, Joey. Such good stuff. I'm gonna have

818
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:33,210
Speaker 2: to go check that out now. So anyway, thank you

819
00:56:33,250 --> 00:56:36,129
Speaker 2: again for being with us. And I really enjoyed what

820
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:37,780
Speaker 2: you brought. So blessings to you.

821
00:56:38,340 --> 00:56:39,980
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jim. Blessings to you as well.

822
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:44,810
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me on the Unhurried Living Podcast.

823
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:47,670
Speaker 2: You can download free resources and learn more about us

824
00:56:47,810 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: at unhurriedliving.com. And please subscribe and share this podcast with

825
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:54,900
Speaker 2: your friends and colleagues. We'd also like to thank our partner,

826
00:56:54,980 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: Life Audio. Check out their other faith-centered podcasts at lifeaudio.com.

827
00:56:59,610 --> 00:57:01,330
Speaker 2: Blessings to you as you make your way.