1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 2: Hey Lee, thanks for joining me. 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Michael. Great to be with you as always. 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: Author and Christian apologist Lee Stroubble, executive producer of the 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: new documentary movie The Story of Everything. It examines the 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: scientific evidence for a desire behind the universe. The Story 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: of Everything dot film as the website. Lee, Unlike so 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: many projects I interview you about, you're not actually in 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: this movie, but as you are an executive producer, you're 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: behind it. You're promoting it right, You're passionate about it. 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: Why did you want to partner with this film? 12 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: Well, you know, most of the scholars who are in 13 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: the film are people who I've dealt with over the years, 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: interviewed from my books A Case for a Creator or 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: other books that I've done. So I know all these 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: folks and really believe in their mission, which is to 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: help people understand that there is no gulf between science 18 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: and faith. But science, when done right, points powerfully and 19 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: persuasively towards the existence of a God who matches a 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: description the God of the Bible. So I'm totally on 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: board with him and glad to be part of the project. 22 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: Now you say that it points to the existence of God, 23 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: I'm always curious with what language we use here because 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: some people are you know, what asked, can science prove 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: the existence of God? You're saying it points to it? 26 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: I guess is that the wording we're going to use. 27 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: You know, being trained in law, the word proof is 28 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: always something that you kind of parse. You know, what 29 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: do you mean by proof? Proof? Beyond a reasonable doubt, 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: clear and convincing proof? You know, there's different levels of proof. 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: So personally, do I think that the evidence of science 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: proves that there is a God? Yes? I think it does. 33 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: But I think the level of proof is probably clear 34 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: and compelling as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt. But 35 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: that's sufficient, I think to put our trust in the conclusion. 36 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: This is a beautiful film. There's no narrator. The experts 37 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: are the only individuals who talk. It's an a by 38 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: the way, I should say, it's an adaptation of Stephen 39 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: Meyer's book, Return to the God Hypothesis. I believe that's 40 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: riding with the book. It's engaging intellectually, it's substantive, it's accessible. 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: You got to bring your thinking cap on. I think 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: tell people that this is not one you're. 43 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: Going to be able to follow if you're not big, 44 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: it's true. 45 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: How has this issue been impacted by the fact that 46 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: we're living in cities now, we don't see the vastest 47 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: of space like white people did long ago. You know, 48 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: when King David was writing the Psalms, he was looking 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: up with the skies at night. I'm just curious, in 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: your mind, as a Christian apologist, how has this issue 51 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: of whether there is a God? How is that impacted 52 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: by the fact that so many people who are arguing 53 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: against God don't even see the vastest of God at night? 54 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? You know. To me, though, we all go through 55 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: some science education, right it's high school, it's college. We're 56 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: exposed to science teaching, and often it is a position 57 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: taken in those classes that is inconsistent with a biblical narrative. 58 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: I remember one of the key steps in my journey 59 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: to atheism was when I took science classes in high 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: school and was told that the origin diversity of life 61 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: is based on neo Darwinism and so there's no need 62 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: for a creator. And that was a major step in 63 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: my life toward atheism. That's why I hope that young 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: people see this film. I would love to have churches 65 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: encourage college age and high school age students to come 66 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: and bring their spiritually curious and even skeptical friends, and boy, 67 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: it'll lead to some great discussions, and I think it 68 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: builds a case that is powerful and persuasive that gives 69 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: young people a solid basis for their faith. Too many 70 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: are walking away because they've not been exposed to the 71 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: affirmative evidence that points toward a God who matches a 72 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: description of the Bible. 73 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: I guess we should say for those who are curious 74 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: about the details of this film, this is not Christian 75 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: apologetics like Lee Strobble is known for. In terms of 76 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: a case for christ. It's more of I guess, natural theology. 77 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: It's arguing for peace for creator from just the evidence 78 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: of creation. I guess people can turn to your resources 79 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: for the rest of that and to kind of bridge 80 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: that gap. 81 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: Sure you'll hear voices of skeptics in the film as well. Yeah, 82 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: that's true. 83 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: That's true. 84 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: Lee. 85 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: When people reject the idea of a creator, do you 86 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: find that the barrier is usually scientific? Is it philosophical 87 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: or is it personal? 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: I think often it's personal, and often people like I did, 89 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: will use claims from science or history to try to 90 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: rebuff a Christian who's trying to share Christ with them. 91 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: But deep down there's something else going on, and I 92 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: think there's often psychological issues. I think if there was 93 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: with me, father issues are a major you know, you 94 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: look at two trends in America, number one, fatherless families 95 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: and number two increase in belief in atheism or skepticism 96 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: toward God. I think those are connected, so did C. S. Lewis. 97 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: You know, when you have a father who is a 98 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: abandon you or hurt you or disappointed you in some way, 99 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: you don't want to know heavenly father, and it creates 100 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: a barrier, It creates a disincentive to find your heavenly father, 101 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: and you find all kinds of reasons to reject Christianity. 102 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: It may not be based on the evidence, but you 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: use them to kind of fend off the faith when 104 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: really there's psychologicals. And that's just one here. In fact, 105 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: studies have been done into the major atheist of history, 106 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: Camu Sart, Nietzsche, Freud, Voltaire, Wells for your back, all 107 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: of them, and every single one of them had a 108 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: father who died when they were young, divorced their mother 109 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: when they were young or with whom they had a 110 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: very difficulty or bad relationship. And the implication is, you know, 111 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: if your earthly father's hurt, you don't want to you 112 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: don't want to pursue a heavenly father. So I think 113 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: there are all kinds of reasons why people, according to 114 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: the Book of Romans, suppress the evidence. You know, Romans one, 115 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: verse twenty says, the evidence from what we see. You know, 116 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: you talked about the Michael that you know, looking up 117 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: at the sky at night. If you're in a desert 118 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: or somewhere and you see this array of stars, it's over. 119 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: Roman's one twenty says, we're without excuse. There's plenty of 120 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: evidence for the existence of a creator. 121 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: Lee, what is your go to argument for arguing the 122 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: existence of God? Not Jesus. But if you're sitting on 123 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: a plane, whatever, you have two minutes, where do you 124 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: go to argue the existence of God? 125 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: I think you get a lot out of the cosmological 126 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: argument for God. In other words, where do the universe 127 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: come from? And it's a very simple argument. Whatever begins 128 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: to exist has a cause behind it. All scientists now 129 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: agree the universe began to exist at some point in 130 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: the past. Therefore there must be a cause behind it. 131 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: And now you just look racually. What kind of a 132 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: cause can bring a university of existence. He must be 133 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: transcendent or separate from creation. He must be spirit because 134 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: he existed before the physical world. He must be eternal 135 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: or timeless because he existed before physical time came in 136 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: to be. He must be powerful given the immensity of 137 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: the creation event. Must be smart given the precision of 138 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: the creation event. Must be personal because he had to 139 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: make the decision to create. Must be creative because my goodness, 140 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: just look at the universe. He must be loving because 141 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: he's so carefully crafted a habitat for us to flourish in. 142 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: And then the scientific principle Vocam's razor says it would 143 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: be just one creator. So just from that one argument, 144 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: it rules out all polytheistic religions that believe in many gods. 145 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: It rules out all pantheistic religions who say that everything 146 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: is God, and it also contradicts Eastern philosophy that says 147 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: that the universe is cyclical. So just that one argument 148 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: gets you a long way toward the existence of a 149 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: creator who again matches the description of the god of 150 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: the Bible. 151 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: Let me ask you a couple questions as we close here. 152 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: What do you think the film says to someone who 153 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: wants to believe in God but worries there is not 154 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: enough evidence to do so Intellectually? 155 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: I hope for them it's a challenge to say, wait 156 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: a minute, here, I have these brilliant people with PhD 157 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: from Cambridge, and you know that's where where Steven Meier 158 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: the movies based on his book, is a PhD from 159 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: Cambridge on Origin of Life. I mean, we've got brilliant scientists, 160 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: James Toward, one of the top chemists in the world. 161 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: I mean, these are brilliant people and they believe, they 162 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: believe the evidence points toward the existenvice of a supernatural creator. 163 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: Now does that make it true? No, but it challenges 164 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: us to say, maybe I should check it out, maybe 165 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: I should investigate it, maybe I should go further. I 166 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: wrote a book called Is God Real that deals with 167 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the themes of this movie that could 168 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: go help people go deeper. But I'm hoping it becomes 169 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: an instigator for especially young people to pursue further information, 170 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: to be so captivated by the film that they go, man, 171 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: I need to delve into this further, and you know 172 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: that's good for Christianity. 173 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: It's easy to go to college lee and get under 174 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: it and sit in a classroom under someone who is, 175 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: you know, intellectually smarter than you, academically sure, and they're 176 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: saying things about God that you were you either never 177 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: heard or weren't listening when you were told, I guess, 178 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: and it's easy to doubt God. And I think that's 179 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 2: what this film does. It shows you that there are 180 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: smart people just as smart as the professor's saying, and 181 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: had their classroom that believe there is a God behind 182 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: the you know, so, I think that's pretty powerful. 183 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: And we don't ask people who accept it on faith. 184 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: We accept people to investigate the evidence, check it out. 185 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what you We always assume that people know 186 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: your story. Lead briefly tell people your story for those 187 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: who are just joining us and don't realize that you 188 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: once were a skeptic and an atheist as well. 189 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: That's right. I was trained to journalism. I went to 190 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: Yale Law School, studied law, became legal editor of the 191 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: Chicago Tributne and investigative reporter, and was a was an atheist. 192 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: Tell my wife, who was an agnostic became a Christian, 193 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: and I thought, how do I liberate her from this 194 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: cult that she's gotten involved in. And that was led 195 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: to my investigation of Christianity, the Resurrection of Jesus as 196 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: well as the scientific evidence, until on November the eighth 197 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty one, I realized, in light of the 198 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: avalanche of evidence, a point so powerfully toward the truth 199 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: of Christianity. You were to take more faith and maintain 200 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: my atheism that have become a Christian. And that's when 201 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: I met my need to Jesus received Christ in my life, 202 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: my future, my morality, my character, my parenting, my marriage 203 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: all transformed and now Leslie and I've been married fifty 204 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: four years. 205 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: Briefly, tell me how you want this to impact Christians. 206 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: We talked about the fastics. How do you want it 207 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: to be impact to Christians who watched this movie. 208 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: Two things, deep in their faith, which is important in 209 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: these days when you see quote unquote deconstruction going on. 210 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: So deepen the convictions that their faith is well placed. 211 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: But secondly, give them the confidence and the courage and 212 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: the materials and the resources to reach out to a 213 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: spiritually curious friend. I hope Christians invite someone who's no 214 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: not a Christian to join him, to come to this movie. 215 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: It's not a threatening thing. It's like the story of 216 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: everything that's kind of interesting. And then just go to 217 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: coffee afterwards and chat about it. And you don't have 218 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: to be a super apologist to do it. You have 219 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: to be the Bible answer man. Just talk about how 220 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: God influenced your life and see if this begins a 221 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: journey for that person towards Jesus at least. 222 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: Jouble dot commis the website. Tell us about your latest release. 223 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: I believe you had a You had a movie that 224 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: came out this year, The Case for. 225 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: A Miracles, So brief, that's right about that. Yeah, Case 226 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: of Miracles movie will be streaming soon, don't know where yet. 227 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: And my new book is Seeing the Supernatural, which looks 228 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: at what is the evidence that there is something beyond 229 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: what we can see in touch and put in a 230 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: test too. That's been a fascinating investigation. It's been a 231 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: couple of years doing that and oh my goodness, opened 232 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: my eyes to the relevance of the supernatural realm to 233 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: everyday Christianity. 234 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: If you like today's episode, please subscribe to leave a 235 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: five star review. That's how we help more people just 236 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: like you find the show. A big thanks to the 237 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: team at life Audio for their partnership with us on 238 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you 239 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. 240 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: See you next time.