1
00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:04,130
Speaker 1: Life Audio.

2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,900
Speaker 2: You are listening to The Beckett Cook Show with your host,

3
00:00:13,140 --> 00:00:17,100
Speaker 2: Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,

4
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 2: visit his website at beckettcook.com. To help support the podcast,

5
00:00:23,380 --> 00:00:29,950
Speaker 2: visit patreon.com slash thebeckettcookshow. Please consider subscribing to the podcast

6
00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:31,890
Speaker 2: and leaving a five-star rating.

7
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,100
Speaker 3: So, okay, let's move to, we're going to jump to

8
00:00:41,140 --> 00:00:43,979
Speaker 3: Revelation 13. Who is the Antichrist? What is the mark

9
00:00:44,010 --> 00:00:45,610
Speaker 3: of the beast? What does 666 mean?

10
00:00:45,690 --> 00:00:52,870
Speaker 1: Go. Love it. Well, interestingly, the word Antichrist is never

11
00:00:53,030 --> 00:00:55,010
Speaker 1: used in the book of Revelation, and that's why some

12
00:00:55,030 --> 00:00:59,580
Speaker 1: people say that there is no Antichrist. I mean, or

13
00:00:59,780 --> 00:01:02,780
Speaker 1: they would say that's not a feature of Revelation at

14
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,860
Speaker 1: all because it doesn't use that word. I would disagree.

15
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,450
Speaker 1: I agree. it obviously doesn't use that word. That's an

16
00:01:08,530 --> 00:01:13,280
Speaker 1: objective fact, but the, the way I would, I would

17
00:01:13,310 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 1: look at it would be that I, it's more of

18
00:01:16,540 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: a systematic way of, I guess, following a thread that

19
00:01:21,060 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: runs through a number of scriptures. So if you read

20
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:29,069
Speaker 1: the letters from the letters to, of like first and second, John,

21
00:01:29,250 --> 00:01:33,710
Speaker 1: it'll mention antichrists and there it's heresy in the church.

22
00:01:34,330 --> 00:01:36,890
Speaker 1: You know, denial that Jesus came in the flesh, that

23
00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:41,680
Speaker 1: kind of thing. That is Antichrist. And it does say, like,

24
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,500
Speaker 1: you know that Antichrist is coming and that many Antichrists

25
00:01:46,540 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: have come. But it's doctrinal and it's heresy in the church.

26
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: And so, first of all, we have to understand that

27
00:01:53,410 --> 00:01:57,930
Speaker 1: there have been many Antichrists. Islam is an Antichrist religion.

28
00:01:57,990 --> 00:02:01,130
Speaker 1: They don't believe Jesus is who he says he was

29
00:02:01,290 --> 00:02:01,850
Speaker 1: in the Bible.

30
00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:05,550
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this short break. Nero was

31
00:02:05,570 --> 00:02:06,570
Speaker 3: an antichrist.

32
00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:10,150
Speaker 1: Nero was antichrist for sure. There have been lots of

33
00:02:10,250 --> 00:02:17,250
Speaker 1: antichrists in history. But the emphasis in the letters of

34
00:02:17,380 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: John seemed to be on heresy in the church, just heresy.

35
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: But when we get to Revelation 13, that's where the

36
00:02:29,130 --> 00:02:32,620
Speaker 1: antichrist figure could come into play in a couple of ways.

37
00:02:32,660 --> 00:02:36,500
Speaker 1: There are two beasts that arise. So in Revelation chapter 12,

38
00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,980
Speaker 1: Jesus defeats the dragon who is the devil. Michael, the archangel,

39
00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:43,360
Speaker 1: also defeats the dragon. The way I talk about it

40
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,860
Speaker 1: in my book is it's like a war taking place

41
00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:51,380
Speaker 1: simultaneously but in two theaters, on earth and in heaven.

42
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 1: And it's like a cascade and it goes from Christ's victory,

43
00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 1: he's caught up to a throne, dragon fails to devour him.

44
00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:04,060
Speaker 1: And then the dragon is, is fighting against Michael, the archangel.

45
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,340
Speaker 1: And so Michael's victory flows out of Christ's victory, which

46
00:03:08,470 --> 00:03:11,970
Speaker 1: ultimately becomes our victory. But, uh, but when Satan's cast

47
00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:15,549
Speaker 1: down from heaven, which I believe happened in conjunction with

48
00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:19,530
Speaker 1: the first coming of Christ, uh, that seems to flow with,

49
00:03:19,570 --> 00:03:21,950
Speaker 1: he's caught up to a throne, then Michael cast him down.

50
00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 1: And then it says that Satan, the dragon, uh, took

51
00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: out his wrath upon the earth and upon the sea,

52
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,959
Speaker 1: which is, you know, like, what does that mean? Is

53
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,500
Speaker 1: Satan like raging about on the Pacific ocean somewhere, you know,

54
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,460
Speaker 1: like what in the world? And we find out when

55
00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:43,820
Speaker 1: we get to the last verse of chapter 12, he's

56
00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:46,500
Speaker 1: standing on the shore. So there's earth and sea there.

57
00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:49,380
Speaker 1: And then in chapter 13, the way I worded in

58
00:03:49,420 --> 00:03:52,460
Speaker 1: my book is the first orc from his army. He

59
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,390
Speaker 1: brings up from the sea. And so the second orc

60
00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:01,290
Speaker 1: is the one that comes from the earth. And so

61
00:04:01,330 --> 00:04:03,970
Speaker 1: he's taking out his wrath on the earth and the sea.

62
00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 1: That's symbolic. It's not like wrath on the Pacific Ocean.

63
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,140
Speaker 1: It's symbolic of his first two orcs, his first two henchmen.

64
00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: One beast, the beast of the sea, is more political.

65
00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:19,700
Speaker 1: And you see him like reigning and having authority over

66
00:04:19,750 --> 00:04:23,270
Speaker 1: all these people. And the other one is more religious.

67
00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:26,570
Speaker 1: He's also called the false prophet, the beast of the earth.

68
00:04:26,930 --> 00:04:33,770
Speaker 1: And so Satan is animating these two figures. Now, preterists,

69
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 1: those who believe that most of this stuff was fulfilled

70
00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:40,300
Speaker 1: in the past, they'll say, oh, well, the beast of

71
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:46,100
Speaker 1: the sea was Rome. And so, like the Roman Empire.

72
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 1: And so this was a past thing. I don't think

73
00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: we can over-limit it to Rome anymore. however, because John's

74
00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 1: beast of the sea is a mutant, and it's a

75
00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:02,849
Speaker 1: mutant that recalls Daniel chapter 7, multiple beasts. For John,

76
00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:08,729
Speaker 1: his beast of the sea contains images from Daniel 7 beast.

77
00:05:08,930 --> 00:05:12,700
Speaker 1: The first beast was Babylon. The second beast was Medo-Persia.

78
00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm taking the traditional interpretation here. The third beast was Greece.

79
00:05:18,380 --> 00:05:21,300
Speaker 1: And then the fourth beast, a little more debated, I

80
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,010
Speaker 1: would take the traditional interpretation and say Rome. And so

81
00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:29,130
Speaker 1: those four empires appear in Daniel chapter seven. Beast means empire.

82
00:05:29,770 --> 00:05:32,950
Speaker 1: And kings are at play too. And sometimes Daniel will

83
00:05:32,970 --> 00:05:37,300
Speaker 1: speak interchangeably between king and kingdom, king and empire. And

84
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 1: you see that also. So in Revelation chapter 13, images

85
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:47,729
Speaker 1: related to Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and the fourth beast, which

86
00:05:47,770 --> 00:05:51,390
Speaker 1: I believe to be Rome, all of those are combined together.

87
00:05:51,410 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 1: In my book, I say like a ball of Play-Doh.

88
00:05:53,890 --> 00:05:58,320
Speaker 1: They're all rolled together. So it seems to be like

89
00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of beastly empire in the last days, not

90
00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:05,180
Speaker 1: limited to Rome because it's more than Rome. It's these

91
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,180
Speaker 1: other ones too. It's like the spirit of beastly empire

92
00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:13,300
Speaker 1: lives on, which is indicated in Daniel 7, verse 12,

93
00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:18,210
Speaker 1: where we see that God pronounces judgment upon the beasts,

94
00:06:18,730 --> 00:06:23,770
Speaker 1: but it says that the three beasts had their lives

95
00:06:23,870 --> 00:06:27,330
Speaker 1: prolonged for a season at a time. They were already expired,

96
00:06:27,589 --> 00:06:29,870
Speaker 1: and yet their beastly life was continuing. It's like you

97
00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:33,390
Speaker 1: could think of it like beastly DNA passed down. And

98
00:06:33,910 --> 00:06:38,599
Speaker 1: it's the fact that the empires of the earth, they're

99
00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:42,860
Speaker 1: portrayed as beasts because they devour. They stand in contrast

100
00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:47,830
Speaker 1: to the lamb, So whereas the engine of godless government

101
00:06:48,450 --> 00:06:54,670
Speaker 1: choose people up like a godless beast, it consumes humans.

102
00:06:54,930 --> 00:06:59,860
Speaker 1: It's designed to make them flourish and yet godless governments

103
00:06:59,890 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 1: devour life. Now that's not the whole picture. Daniel four

104
00:07:02,710 --> 00:07:06,060
Speaker 1: will kind of mediate that and essentially say, well, government's good,

105
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,340
Speaker 1: does some good things. You don't, don't, the solution is

106
00:07:08,380 --> 00:07:14,580
Speaker 1: not anarchy, but also let's be honest. Uh, Godless governments

107
00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:18,550
Speaker 1: chew people up. They're devouring beasts. In contrast, the lamb

108
00:07:18,810 --> 00:07:22,310
Speaker 1: lays his life down for people and gives life to

109
00:07:22,350 --> 00:07:25,050
Speaker 1: the world. And so there's this contrast John's working through.

110
00:07:25,530 --> 00:07:30,190
Speaker 1: But in Revelation 13, this beast can't be limited to Rome,

111
00:07:30,370 --> 00:07:33,630
Speaker 1: as the preterists say. It can't be limited to a

112
00:07:33,730 --> 00:07:37,780
Speaker 1: revived Roman empire, as most futurists say, because it's more

113
00:07:37,820 --> 00:07:41,870
Speaker 1: than Rome. It's beastly DNA. Go read Daniel 7. In

114
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,690
Speaker 1: the first few verses of Revelation 13, you'll see it

115
00:07:43,710 --> 00:07:48,670
Speaker 1: very clearly. In addition, the fourth beast, when you read

116
00:07:48,710 --> 00:07:53,090
Speaker 1: Daniel 7, has a little horn. And the little horn

117
00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:54,650
Speaker 1: throughout the book of Daniel, we'll see it in Daniel

118
00:07:54,650 --> 00:07:58,890
Speaker 1: 8 also, the little horn represents an individual king. And

119
00:07:58,930 --> 00:08:04,410
Speaker 1: in Daniel, he has a big mouth that he speaks arrogantly.

120
00:08:05,030 --> 00:08:08,690
Speaker 1: And Daniel's training us to spot tyrants. And he does

121
00:08:08,730 --> 00:08:10,690
Speaker 1: this throughout, and there are a number of signs of it.

122
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,980
Speaker 1: of a tyrant. One of them is boasting. He boasts

123
00:08:15,060 --> 00:08:18,940
Speaker 1: great things. But what you see in Revelation 13 is

124
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 1: that just like the fourth beast that has this little horn,

125
00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:26,880
Speaker 1: this tyrant that boasts great things and persecutes, makes war

126
00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: on the saints, we'll see in Revelation 13 that this

127
00:08:30,670 --> 00:08:35,370
Speaker 1: beast also boasts great things with its mouth and makes

128
00:08:35,470 --> 00:08:37,429
Speaker 1: war on the saints. It's the same language, and there

129
00:08:37,470 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 1: are more. I've have a chart in my book that

130
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,500
Speaker 1: shows all the connections. And so point being that if

131
00:08:44,540 --> 00:08:48,819
Speaker 1: this beast of the sea represents godless empire, the political

132
00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:56,820
Speaker 1: arm of Satan's weapon against humanity, his way of maximizing

133
00:08:56,980 --> 00:09:00,260
Speaker 1: human destruction is to get a foothold in the power

134
00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:03,230
Speaker 1: of the state. And so that's one of his chief arms.

135
00:09:03,250 --> 00:09:04,870
Speaker 1: The way I say in my book is politics is

136
00:09:04,929 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 1: nasty for a reason. And so And so this little

137
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,660
Speaker 1: horn figure, that allusion to Daniel 7 arises again in

138
00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:21,390
Speaker 1: Revelation 13 and points to a horrific tyrant. When you

139
00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:24,770
Speaker 1: get to Revelation 17, this is portrayed as an eighth

140
00:09:25,050 --> 00:09:27,910
Speaker 1: head of the beast. I call it in my book

141
00:09:28,130 --> 00:09:34,270
Speaker 1: Nero Jr. In fact, it's so evil that it's interchangeably

142
00:09:34,309 --> 00:09:36,910
Speaker 1: called the beast and the eighth head of the beast.

143
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 1: And so I do believe in a future Antichrist, even

144
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,100
Speaker 1: if Revelation doesn't use that term. There's a little bit

145
00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:45,220
Speaker 1: more I've got to say on Revelation, though, because some

146
00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:48,800
Speaker 1: will see that in Revelation 13, the false prophet says

147
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,309
Speaker 1: it looks like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon.

148
00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:57,090
Speaker 1: And it would not be wrong to characterize that as

149
00:09:57,130 --> 00:10:00,510
Speaker 1: an Antichrist figure, because the lamb we see throughout Revelation

150
00:10:00,730 --> 00:10:04,390
Speaker 1: is Jesus. He speaks, you know, he looks like a lamb,

151
00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:06,910
Speaker 1: so we're tricked, but he speaks like a dragon. So

152
00:10:06,950 --> 00:10:10,130
Speaker 1: it's like telling us, hey, be discerning here. And so

153
00:10:10,990 --> 00:10:14,390
Speaker 1: a case can be made for that. And especially those

154
00:10:15,250 --> 00:10:18,219
Speaker 1: futurists who believe in an Islamic antichrist, and I talk

155
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,510
Speaker 1: about this some in my book, we'll point to the

156
00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:23,370
Speaker 1: false prophet as actually being the antichrist figure in the book.

157
00:10:23,390 --> 00:10:24,910
Speaker 1: And I think it's a strong case can be made.

158
00:10:25,270 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this short break.

159
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,059
Speaker 1: The, uh, the other thing is the one that just

160
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,580
Speaker 1: seals the deal, that there will be one final antichrist.

161
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,660
Speaker 1: And the way I view it is there are iterations

162
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,080
Speaker 1: because even in Daniel's day, there were iterations. The third

163
00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: empire in Daniel chapter eight, which is the metal Persian

164
00:10:44,090 --> 00:10:49,679
Speaker 1: empire also has a little horn. Clearly, uh, Antiochus IV Epiphanes,

165
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: who stopped the sacrifices, created an abomination that causes desolation,

166
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,709
Speaker 1: templed an altar to Zeus, and sacrificed a pig on

167
00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:04,290
Speaker 1: the altar. Everyone agreed he was the one predicted by

168
00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:08,030
Speaker 1: Daniel chapter 8. He's called a little horn. And then

169
00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:11,069
Speaker 1: you have another little horn for the fourth kingdom, which

170
00:11:11,210 --> 00:11:15,209
Speaker 1: turns out to be Rome. And so you have this typology.

171
00:11:15,230 --> 00:11:17,370
Speaker 1: And so I would say there's a sequence. And I

172
00:11:17,390 --> 00:11:19,569
Speaker 1: would expect it to escalate toward the end. And I

173
00:11:19,610 --> 00:11:22,570
Speaker 1: think Hitler was one of those escalations. And we could

174
00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:26,170
Speaker 1: go through history and name certain ones. During the Protestant Reformation,

175
00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:28,750
Speaker 1: they said it was the Pope. And in that period

176
00:11:28,770 --> 00:11:32,170
Speaker 1: of history, I don't think they were wrong. But I

177
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,060
Speaker 1: think there are different iterations over time. Hitler fits the

178
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 1: bill quite well, in my opinion. And I think before

179
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: the very end, there will be an ultimate one that

180
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,730
Speaker 1: surpasses them all. And the kicker for me is 2

181
00:11:44,730 --> 00:11:49,770
Speaker 1: Thessalonians 2 that talks about a man of lawlessness. And

182
00:11:49,870 --> 00:11:51,530
Speaker 1: some people try to say, oh, well, but it's not

183
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:53,770
Speaker 1: really a man. And I'm like, I don't know. I

184
00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:57,380
Speaker 1: think man means man. And so there will be a

185
00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:00,990
Speaker 1: human being who arises in some kind of temple, call it,

186
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,400
Speaker 1: whether it be the church or whether it be a

187
00:12:02,420 --> 00:12:06,900
Speaker 1: literal temple, whatever. And in 2 Thessalonians 2, it's associated

188
00:12:06,940 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: with him performing signs and wonders. Revelation 13, it's the

189
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:11,979
Speaker 1: false prophet who does more of the signs and wonders.

190
00:12:12,490 --> 00:12:14,970
Speaker 1: But either way, signs and wonders are surrounding him. There's

191
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:17,350
Speaker 1: a great delusion that's poured out on the earth, and

192
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:20,959
Speaker 1: lots of people are deceived by this. And my warning

193
00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:23,620
Speaker 1: to people would be, look for Jesus in the sky.

194
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:29,100
Speaker 1: Do not look for him as some political religious figure

195
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,209
Speaker 1: arising in history like anybody else. That's not going to

196
00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:36,869
Speaker 1: happen that way. But I would say that's kind of

197
00:12:36,910 --> 00:12:41,410
Speaker 1: the picture of Antichrist in Revelation 13. I'm comfortable with

198
00:12:41,450 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 1: the term because I think it's, it's a term that communicates, uh, there,

199
00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:51,180
Speaker 1: what there, he does teach heresy. He just teaches it theocratically.

200
00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:56,140
Speaker 1: He teaches it through his political mechanism. So, uh, anyway,

201
00:12:56,179 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 1: so I do believe in a final antichrist. Okay.

202
00:12:59,020 --> 00:13:01,220
Speaker 3: And then what about the mark of the beast and six, six, six?

203
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:02,750
Speaker 2: Yeah.

204
00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:05,870
Speaker 1: Uh, so the mark of the beast, you know, there's

205
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 1: always been this fear that the, you know, like, maybe

206
00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:13,980
Speaker 1: you get a microchip under your skin and oops, I

207
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 1: took the micro, the mark of the beast or during

208
00:13:16,140 --> 00:13:18,180
Speaker 1: COVID is like Bill Gates was going to inject you

209
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: with the mark of the beast and so on. The

210
00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 1: one key aspect of the mark is it's not something

211
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,570
Speaker 1: that you can accidentally take. I did a whole episode

212
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,470
Speaker 1: on this and my on remnant radio and you can

213
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,630
Speaker 1: search for mark of the beast, but the number of

214
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:33,570
Speaker 1: the mark of the beast is six, six, six. Nobody

215
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:37,750
Speaker 1: knows precisely like how that aspect of it plays out,

216
00:13:37,809 --> 00:13:41,780
Speaker 1: but six is the number of man. some commentators call

217
00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:47,950
Speaker 1: it the, the, the perfect, the number of perfect imperfection, essentially,

218
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:51,969
Speaker 1: because it's like repeated three times. Like it's trying to

219
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:53,589
Speaker 1: get to seven, trying to get to seven, trying to

220
00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:57,050
Speaker 1: get to seven, but always falling short. And it's like, and,

221
00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:59,970
Speaker 1: and it can be translated like number of a man,

222
00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: number of humanity, like is just, this is just man

223
00:14:03,890 --> 00:14:06,660
Speaker 1: falling short. Some people understand it generally like that. So it's,

224
00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:09,470
Speaker 1: It's not like somebody's going to come around with a

225
00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:12,530
Speaker 1: 666 on their forehead like, oh, that's him, right? It's

226
00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:14,670
Speaker 1: probably not going to be that way. The thing about

227
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:17,069
Speaker 1: the mark of the beast is that it's associated with

228
00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:19,570
Speaker 1: buying and selling. The false prophet sets up a system

229
00:14:19,630 --> 00:14:22,270
Speaker 1: of economic persecution so that if you don't pledge your

230
00:14:22,290 --> 00:14:24,390
Speaker 1: allegiance to the beast of the sea, because that's what

231
00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:26,890
Speaker 1: the purpose of the false prophet is, is to get

232
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,180
Speaker 1: people to pledge their allegiance to the political ruler. And

233
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:36,060
Speaker 1: if you look at Nazi history, like Adolf Hitler had

234
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,729
Speaker 1: his lieutenant. And when ultimate allegiance is demanded, even if

235
00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:45,810
Speaker 1: they're not claiming to be God, essentially they are. And

236
00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:50,510
Speaker 1: so ultimate allegiance belongs to God alone. And that's what

237
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:52,550
Speaker 1: the Mark of the Beast is about. Those who pledge

238
00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:54,670
Speaker 1: their allegiance to the Beast of the Sea, they get

239
00:14:55,330 --> 00:14:58,170
Speaker 1: saved from the economic persecution. They can buy and sell.

240
00:14:58,690 --> 00:15:02,090
Speaker 1: Those who refuse the Mark of the Beast cannot buy

241
00:15:02,130 --> 00:15:05,050
Speaker 1: and sell. They suffer the consequences of economic persecution and

242
00:15:05,150 --> 00:15:08,790
Speaker 1: also in that chapter, death and prison. And so what

243
00:15:08,810 --> 00:15:11,770
Speaker 1: it really comes down to is allegiance. And I don't

244
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 1: think that the Mark of the Beast is primarily about

245
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 1: some kind of microchip. I'm not denying that technology could

246
00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: be involved in it. Technology is involved in buying and selling.

247
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 1: Technology will probably be involved in some way. But it

248
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,140
Speaker 1: is ultimately about allegiance. Have you pledged your allegiance to

249
00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:30,610
Speaker 1: the Lamb or to the Beast? And the greatest safeguard

250
00:15:30,990 --> 00:15:33,430
Speaker 1: against the Mark of the Beast is pledging your allegiance

251
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:36,810
Speaker 1: to the Lamb who was slain. You can't accidentally take

252
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:39,750
Speaker 1: the mark of the beast anymore than you can accidentally

253
00:15:39,830 --> 00:15:44,990
Speaker 1: hile Hitler. This is something that you consciously do. And

254
00:15:45,170 --> 00:15:47,550
Speaker 1: so that's what I would say the mark of the

255
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:50,170
Speaker 1: beast is, is that it's a pledge of allegiance that

256
00:15:50,190 --> 00:15:54,260
Speaker 1: you're giving. And throughout history, there's like wicked empires have

257
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:56,660
Speaker 1: always had some kind of pledge of allegiance. You know,

258
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 1: in Nebuchadnezzar's day, it was bow before this golden statue

259
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:01,460
Speaker 1: in Islam.

260
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 3: Shadrach and his friends didn't do it.

261
00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:06,620
Speaker 1: They didn't do it. And, uh, and in Islam it's,

262
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,940
Speaker 1: you know, like, uh, there's no God but Allah and Muhammad.

263
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,359
Speaker 1: I don't even like to say it even though I'm

264
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 1: just quoting them. But, um, you know, if you don't

265
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: say that you might get killed. There's a, there's a

266
00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:18,300
Speaker 1: pledge of allegiance that's taking place. And so we, as

267
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,740
Speaker 1: this is a bit of a warning for say like Americans,

268
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up, I've always grilled on the

269
00:16:24,090 --> 00:16:26,790
Speaker 1: 4th of July and lit the fireworks and I'm a

270
00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:30,010
Speaker 1: Patriot like a lot of other good, you know, a

271
00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:31,930
Speaker 1: lot of other Americans. I love my nation. I think

272
00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:34,890
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. And yet at the same time, we have

273
00:16:34,930 --> 00:16:38,110
Speaker 1: to be really careful about giving our ultimate allegiance to anyone.

274
00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:41,190
Speaker 1: And I get a little concerned for our nation to

275
00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:42,610
Speaker 1: see a lot of people doing it. I think that

276
00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:46,390
Speaker 1: explains the polarity. It's like you can be brothers or

277
00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 1: sisters in Jesus, but if somebody disagrees about some political

278
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: candidate or whatever, like I, I do think that Christianity

279
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,570
Speaker 1: should inform our votes, but I don't think that, um,

280
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,980
Speaker 1: that any politician deserves our ultimate allegiance. And so, in fact,

281
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,320
Speaker 1: I would be very concerned by that. Craig Keener talks

282
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,140
Speaker 1: about this in his commentary on revelation. He says, Protestant

283
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,530
Speaker 1: leaders were among the most jubilant when Hitler came to

284
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:19,129
Speaker 1: power because he feigned friendly friendliness to the Protestant church.

285
00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:23,609
Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, be on guard guys. So, so yeah,

286
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:26,210
Speaker 1: I think the mark of the beast is, uh, is a, it,

287
00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:30,530
Speaker 1: like invisible. It's a, it's a symbol of allegiance. And, uh,

288
00:17:30,609 --> 00:17:32,119
Speaker 1: and it's actually, I'll say one more thing about it.

289
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:34,629
Speaker 1: It's the counterpart to the seal of the living God.

290
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:37,930
Speaker 1: We talked about that with the 144,000 receiving the seal.

291
00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:40,409
Speaker 1: So the divine wrath isn't poured out upon them. And

292
00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:43,190
Speaker 1: so you can see that both seals, uh, mark you

293
00:17:43,290 --> 00:17:45,610
Speaker 1: in like, you have the seal of the living God

294
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:48,930
Speaker 1: that goes on your forehead. Uh, and you have the

295
00:17:49,109 --> 00:17:50,770
Speaker 1: mark of the beast that goes on your right hand

296
00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 1: or your forehead. And, uh, and so, uh, the seal

297
00:17:54,780 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 1: protects you from God's wrath. It doesn't protect you from

298
00:17:58,180 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 1: the devil's wrath, which is persecution. The mark of the

299
00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,830
Speaker 1: beast protects you from the devil's wrath. You're not going

300
00:18:04,850 --> 00:18:09,169
Speaker 1: to get persecuted if you pledge your allegiance to the

301
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:12,770
Speaker 1: beast of the sea or whatever. However, you will suffer

302
00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:14,690
Speaker 1: God's wrath if you take the mark of the beast.

303
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:18,980
Speaker 1: And that is a message consistent throughout revelation. And yeah,

304
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 1: the seal of the living God, everyone thinks that's invisible

305
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,420
Speaker 1: and symbolic because it harkens back to Ezekiel chapter nine,

306
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,300
Speaker 1: where a seal was put on people's foreheads who were righteous.

307
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,900
Speaker 1: It's not a literal thing. It's not a physical thing.

308
00:18:29,940 --> 00:18:31,369
Speaker 1: And I don't think the mark of the beast is

309
00:18:31,609 --> 00:18:35,070
Speaker 1: a literal physical thing. I think it's allegiance is really

310
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:37,430
Speaker 1: what it's about. Okay.

311
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:40,010
Speaker 3: So I'm going to jump to Revelation 17. Who is

312
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:41,990
Speaker 3: the prostitute called Babylon the Great?

313
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:47,590
Speaker 1: Okay, so Babylon is, I love this definition from Sam Storms.

314
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:51,270
Speaker 1: He says, Babylon is the symbol of human civilization with

315
00:18:51,450 --> 00:18:56,100
Speaker 1: all its pomp and circumstances, circumstance organized in opposition to God.

316
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,900
Speaker 1: It is the sum total of pagan culture, social, intellectual, commercial, political,

317
00:19:00,980 --> 00:19:04,220
Speaker 1: and religious. It is the essence of evil, the Mecca,

318
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 1: if you will, of heathenism, the symbol for collective rebellion

319
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:09,859
Speaker 1: against God in any and every form. It is the

320
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 1: universal or world system of belief, I unbelieve idolatry and

321
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,780
Speaker 1: apostasy that opposes and persecutes the people of God. I

322
00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: think that's pretty thorough. It's a system, right? And, uh,

323
00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:25,619
Speaker 1: and so it's, it's set in contrast. I have one

324
00:19:25,660 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: section of my book called a tale of two cities.

325
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:31,110
Speaker 1: Cause you have Babylon and the new Jerusalem, the worldly

326
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:35,909
Speaker 1: city and the heavenly city. And, uh, and so Babylon

327
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:39,750
Speaker 1: appeals to our lusts. So if the beast appeals to

328
00:19:39,810 --> 00:19:41,889
Speaker 1: our fear, because we don't want to be persecuted, uh,

329
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,730
Speaker 1: And so Revelation, it's trying to make sure we're aware

330
00:19:46,770 --> 00:19:48,510
Speaker 1: of the devil's schemes. And this is again, why I

331
00:19:48,550 --> 00:19:51,010
Speaker 1: don't want Revelation to be pinned to the remote past

332
00:19:51,050 --> 00:19:54,260
Speaker 1: or the future, because the beast of the sea is

333
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,500
Speaker 1: a threat today. Hyper-political allegiance is a threat today. The

334
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: beast of the earth is a threat today, the false

335
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: prophet and false religion. And Babylon is a threat today.

336
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,300
Speaker 1: Babylon was known to be a symbol in the ancient world.

337
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: And 1 Peter chapter five, Peter refers to the city

338
00:20:12,619 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 1: of Rome as Babylon. And in that day, the city

339
00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:19,619
Speaker 1: of Rome was more Babylon than anybody else. It was

340
00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:22,090
Speaker 1: the center of culture and civilization. As far as they

341
00:20:22,109 --> 00:20:25,290
Speaker 1: were concerned, it was the center of the world. Today,

342
00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:31,470
Speaker 1: it might be New York City or, sorry Beckett, LA, right?

343
00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:33,340
Speaker 1: That's maybe the heart of it, but I still wouldn't

344
00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: limit it to a single city. And the reason is

345
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,290
Speaker 1: it's a system that It can't be pinned on a

346
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:43,930
Speaker 1: map because it is a system. And you see that

347
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:49,250
Speaker 1: the way Revelation portrays her connections with kings. Kings sleep

348
00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:52,710
Speaker 1: with the harlot. And what does that mean? It speaks

349
00:20:52,810 --> 00:20:57,810
Speaker 1: to the political compromise. Revelation 17, the harlot rides the beast.

350
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 1: So if the beast of the sea is godless empire

351
00:21:02,140 --> 00:21:08,310
Speaker 1: and harlot Babylon is godless culture, culture is hoisted up

352
00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:12,869
Speaker 1: by empire. And so in John's day, Rome was going

353
00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:16,530
Speaker 1: around and conquering everybody. And what were they doing that for?

354
00:21:17,030 --> 00:21:20,490
Speaker 1: They were feeding, uh, they were feeding the culture and

355
00:21:20,550 --> 00:21:23,190
Speaker 1: civilization of Rome. So all that wealth was coming back.

356
00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:27,990
Speaker 1: And in revelation 18, you have the longest list in antiquity.

357
00:21:28,010 --> 00:21:30,889
Speaker 1: And it's, it's talking about the judgment of Babylon. You

358
00:21:30,910 --> 00:21:35,619
Speaker 1: have the longest list in antiquity of imports and, uh, and,

359
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:38,909
Speaker 1: I just, if you can, I want to kind of

360
00:21:39,010 --> 00:21:43,180
Speaker 1: read just a little section of what I've written here.

361
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: So with this long list, it will bore you. I

362
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: think it's like 27 items. And what he's talking about

363
00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: is the economic exploitation of this alliance between Babylon and

364
00:21:56,220 --> 00:22:01,750
Speaker 1: the beast. And the last item on the list is slaves.

365
00:22:01,790 --> 00:22:04,780
Speaker 1: And it's interesting how John says it. Uh, all right.

366
00:22:04,859 --> 00:22:07,129
Speaker 1: At the risk of boring us, John recounts 27 of

367
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:10,650
Speaker 1: Rome's imports, the longest such list in antiquity, then adds

368
00:22:10,810 --> 00:22:14,869
Speaker 1: one more slaves that is human souls. Translators could have

369
00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:17,290
Speaker 1: rendered the word slaves as bodies, but they chose the

370
00:22:17,369 --> 00:22:21,170
Speaker 1: former because everyone knows Rome did not import carcasses. They

371
00:22:21,250 --> 00:22:26,300
Speaker 1: imported labor. John lists them as cargo to highlight Babylon's

372
00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:32,020
Speaker 1: dehumanizing economy to their owners. Slaves were just bodies. muscle,

373
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:35,590
Speaker 1: and bone that got stuff done, but John refuses to

374
00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:40,510
Speaker 1: risk misunderstanding. These unnamed slaves forgotten by history but remembered

375
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:43,109
Speaker 1: by God are not just bodies, they are human souls.

376
00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:47,430
Speaker 1: By issuing this qualifier and mentioning them last, John spotlights

377
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: the system's rot. Babylon dehumanizes not as a stated goal,

378
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: but as a byproduct of deifying money. And so God

379
00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:59,420
Speaker 1: spends a chapter and a half of the last book

380
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: of the Bible toward the very end of that book

381
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: to decry an economic system that's totally rotten and only

382
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,810
Speaker 1: works for the powerful elites. And so that's a very

383
00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:13,170
Speaker 1: real thing. So Babylon can't be limited to like a

384
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:16,350
Speaker 1: false church, as some people say. There are religious dimensions

385
00:23:16,410 --> 00:23:23,010
Speaker 1: to Babylon. Babylon... It includes economic, it includes religious, commercial,

386
00:23:23,109 --> 00:23:28,209
Speaker 1: like all the things that that list of Sam Storm's definition,

387
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:32,149
Speaker 1: all of that is part of Babylon. And so we

388
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: have to resist the lust, the appeal of her sexual immoralities,

389
00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: of her cultural compromise that's rampant throughout our world and

390
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: throughout these last days, especially with kings and politicians who

391
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,310
Speaker 1: are in bed with the harlot. And so, uh, and

392
00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:53,030
Speaker 1: so we have to be concerned about both fear on

393
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:54,770
Speaker 1: one side and lust on the other. And that's what

394
00:23:54,810 --> 00:23:59,370
Speaker 1: these enemies that Satan has empowered are really meant to communicate.

395
00:24:00,390 --> 00:24:06,430
Speaker 3: Okay. Let's, uh, let's end on the millennium revelation 20. Uh,

396
00:24:07,570 --> 00:24:09,649
Speaker 3: first I want to just, will you just, I'm going

397
00:24:09,670 --> 00:24:12,100
Speaker 3: to pull up these images, these three images, and will

398
00:24:12,130 --> 00:24:18,750
Speaker 3: you just kind of briefly explain what, what the, the different, uh,

399
00:24:19,670 --> 00:24:21,990
Speaker 3: what the different views are.

400
00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:23,109
Speaker 1: Yeah.

401
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:24,250
Speaker 3: Premillennialism.

402
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:29,869
Speaker 1: Right. So there are, so the big three views on

403
00:24:29,890 --> 00:24:38,460
Speaker 1: the millennium are premillennialism, postmillennialism, amillennialism, and millennial means thousand years.

404
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: One chapter in the Bible mentions a thousand year reign

405
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,810
Speaker 1: of Christ. And that thousand year reign is, is, is,

406
00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:52,229
Speaker 1: understood to be some kind of like golden age and

407
00:24:52,369 --> 00:24:58,350
Speaker 1: different systems of interpretation understand it differently. And so the

408
00:24:58,450 --> 00:25:05,270
Speaker 1: central question is what happens after Jesus returns? Because premillennialists,

409
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:07,340
Speaker 1: as you can see, so we're in the church age

410
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: that began with Jesus and his crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, all

411
00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:14,220
Speaker 1: of that. We're living through this church age, but the

412
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:18,629
Speaker 1: second advent is when Christ returns. And under premillennialism, Jesus

413
00:25:18,670 --> 00:25:22,670
Speaker 1: comes back pre, that is before the millennium. And so

414
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:25,870
Speaker 1: that millennium for some premillennialists, it lasts a literal thousand years.

415
00:25:25,930 --> 00:25:28,330
Speaker 1: For others, it's symbolic for just a really long time.

416
00:25:29,150 --> 00:25:33,649
Speaker 1: But that thousand years for most premillennialists is understood to

417
00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:36,490
Speaker 1: be a timeframe in which it's a golden age, but

418
00:25:36,530 --> 00:25:39,470
Speaker 1: not a perfect age. There's still sin, just not as much.

419
00:25:39,570 --> 00:25:44,210
Speaker 1: There's still death, just not as much. And there's still sickness,

420
00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:45,830
Speaker 1: just not as much. All the bad things in this

421
00:25:45,869 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: world still exist after Jesus returns, just not as much.

422
00:25:50,260 --> 00:25:52,420
Speaker 3: And people are getting saved during this period, right?

423
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,340
Speaker 1: People are getting saved. There are some people who have

424
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,020
Speaker 1: resurrected bodies and there are other people who get in

425
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,419
Speaker 1: who don't have resurrected bodies. And there are different formulations

426
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,510
Speaker 1: of how that takes place. But so there are like

427
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:09,190
Speaker 1: really glorious people who shine like the sun mixed with

428
00:26:10,190 --> 00:26:12,110
Speaker 1: dudes like me and you Beckett who are just like

429
00:26:12,170 --> 00:26:17,690
Speaker 1: walking around with normal non-glorified bodies all together. And Jesus

430
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: is reigning in Jerusalem as King. And there are other nations,

431
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,500
Speaker 1: some of them godless nations. They have a choice whether

432
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: or not to follow King Jesus. And if they don't,

433
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: they'll pay the price and their nations will pay the

434
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,980
Speaker 1: price if they don't pledge their allegiance to Jesus. And

435
00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:33,580
Speaker 1: so there's all this kind of going on. And so

436
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:39,030
Speaker 1: Jesus is having a terrestrial reign that's going overall well. And, um,

437
00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:44,370
Speaker 1: And then the other major feature is that the saints

438
00:26:44,410 --> 00:26:48,070
Speaker 1: are reigning with him. And especially the Jews in the

439
00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:51,470
Speaker 1: temple have a very important role. And that is they

440
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:56,550
Speaker 1: will offer animal sacrifices throughout the millennium in a rebuilt temple.

441
00:26:57,310 --> 00:26:59,909
Speaker 1: If you are a premillennialist, that's what you believe. I

442
00:26:59,930 --> 00:27:06,030
Speaker 1: will say 95% of premillennialists believe that. And so then

443
00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:10,710
Speaker 1: after that thousand years is over, There is a giant

444
00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:16,310
Speaker 1: battle that takes place. Excuse me, Gog Magog war mentioned

445
00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:21,700
Speaker 1: in Revelation 20, but it's, you know, stymied. And then

446
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: the new heavens and the new earth is established. And

447
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,860
Speaker 1: so that's premillennialists. It's really kind of like three stages.

448
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:32,850
Speaker 1: You've got church age. Then Jesus returns. There's a thousand

449
00:27:32,869 --> 00:27:35,810
Speaker 1: year reign that's better, but still lots of death and sickness,

450
00:27:35,950 --> 00:27:37,810
Speaker 1: a fair amount of death and sickness and a giant

451
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:42,909
Speaker 1: amount of death at the end. And then perfection, the

452
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:44,590
Speaker 1: new heavens and the new earth where heaven and earth

453
00:27:44,670 --> 00:27:50,190
Speaker 1: become one. And we live here forever. That's premillennialism. Okay. Okay.

454
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:52,990
Speaker 3: Let's now let's, what is post? I have a image

455
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:55,430
Speaker 3: of postmillennialism on the screen.

456
00:27:55,450 --> 00:28:00,510
Speaker 1: So what is postmillennialism? So post-millennialism, you can see the cross.

457
00:28:00,570 --> 00:28:05,169
Speaker 1: And so Jesus came the first advent. And in this

458
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,100
Speaker 1: present age, we're just kind of living through it just

459
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:08,899
Speaker 1: like we are. But they believe that there will be

460
00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: this wonderful turn. And then there will be a golden age, millennium.

461
00:28:14,350 --> 00:28:20,669
Speaker 1: And now post-millennialists, some will say the millennium began at

462
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:24,669
Speaker 1: Christ's first coming. Most, I would say, believe that the

463
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:26,710
Speaker 1: millennium will happen at some point in history. If you

464
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:29,510
Speaker 1: hear Doug Wilson talk about it, he's like, I'm taking

465
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: the long view. It could be hundreds or thousands of years.

466
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: Civilization is going to keep going, but we're a lot

467
00:28:36,220 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: better off than we were hundreds of years ago. Things

468
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: are just going to keep getting better, and then we're

469
00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:43,660
Speaker 1: going to have a golden age. That's Christ's reign, is

470
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: when Christians are overtaking the institutions and Christians are leading people.

471
00:28:48,330 --> 00:28:53,550
Speaker 1: the uh education system and the government system and media

472
00:28:53,670 --> 00:28:55,670
Speaker 1: and all of that there's gonna be this great turn

473
00:28:55,710 --> 00:28:59,610
Speaker 1: and there's a great golden age and their their view

474
00:28:59,930 --> 00:29:03,770
Speaker 1: is like hey if it's like christ came christ wins

475
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:07,190
Speaker 1: the millennium's about winning and so we win win win

476
00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:10,150
Speaker 1: and then in the end jesus comes the leaven of

477
00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:12,190
Speaker 1: the kingdom is spread throughout the entire lump by the

478
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:14,830
Speaker 1: time he returns We've done our job. We've made the

479
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:17,550
Speaker 1: earth look like Jesus is in charge. And then Christ

480
00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:21,650
Speaker 1: returns new heaven to new earth. That's post-millennialism. So for post-millennialists,

481
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:24,870
Speaker 1: you'll hear a lot of emphasis on we've got to

482
00:29:24,910 --> 00:29:27,290
Speaker 1: take the schools and we've got to take the government.

483
00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:29,250
Speaker 1: We've got to take the media and we've got to

484
00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:30,810
Speaker 1: take this and we've got to take that and take

485
00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:34,690
Speaker 1: it for Jesus. And it's funny because there's like a

486
00:29:34,730 --> 00:29:38,510
Speaker 1: charismatic and a non-charismatic version of this. And the charismatic

487
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:40,660
Speaker 1: version is like the Seven Hills. Like we're going to

488
00:29:40,670 --> 00:29:42,219
Speaker 1: take the Hill of government and the Hill of this

489
00:29:42,260 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: and the Hill of that. And they get that from

490
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: revelation 17. It's not what it's about, but that's where

491
00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:49,740
Speaker 1: they get it from. And, uh, and they're very charismatic

492
00:29:49,780 --> 00:29:51,380
Speaker 1: about it. We've got to pray down the principalities and

493
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: all that. And then you have the reformed guys who

494
00:29:53,780 --> 00:29:57,010
Speaker 1: are like totally cessationist. And they're like, no, no, We

495
00:29:57,050 --> 00:30:00,410
Speaker 1: want theonomy. We want to bring back Old Testament law.

496
00:30:00,730 --> 00:30:03,729
Speaker 1: We want a Christian prince, Christian nationalism. That's where all

497
00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:05,950
Speaker 1: this is coming from as a postmillennial view. We've got

498
00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:09,209
Speaker 1: to take the institutions because we're trying to usher in

499
00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:12,100
Speaker 1: the return of Christ and this golden age. And so

500
00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: that's postmillennialism.

501
00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:18,580
Speaker 3: And postmillennialism, is the millennium a literal thousand years?

502
00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:23,940
Speaker 1: It's not a literal thousand years for them. It's a

503
00:30:24,340 --> 00:30:25,500
Speaker 1: period of time that's long.

504
00:30:25,930 --> 00:30:28,190
Speaker 3: Okay, let's move on to amillennialism.

505
00:30:28,210 --> 00:30:31,130
Speaker 1: Ooh, you circled it. You circled it because it's your favorite.

506
00:30:31,150 --> 00:30:32,460
Speaker 3: I circled it.

507
00:30:32,530 --> 00:30:33,950
Speaker 1: I don't know why I circled it. Is that your

508
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:36,060
Speaker 1: way of saying it's your favorite?

509
00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:42,180
Speaker 3: It's my favorite. No, so because, okay, so I mean, yeah,

510
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: in seminary, I was taught dispensationalism, premillennial, rapture, like the

511
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:54,310
Speaker 3: whole thing. But as you say in your book, And

512
00:30:54,350 --> 00:30:59,290
Speaker 3: we'll get into why. But this is the cleanest version. Now,

513
00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:03,870
Speaker 3: so explain what amillennialism is. You're an amillennialist. Spoiler alert.

514
00:31:04,050 --> 00:31:05,070
Speaker 3: You're an amillennialist.

515
00:31:05,310 --> 00:31:06,070
Speaker 1: Yeah.

516
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:15,340
Speaker 3: And by the way, many people in church history, who

517
00:31:15,380 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: was amillennial? Augustine, I think, was Athanasius. Luther, Calvin.

518
00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:25,190
Speaker 1: Augustine was. Calvin was. Luther was. The entire Church of

519
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:33,110
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ almost was amillennial from around like 300, 400 A.D.

520
00:31:33,870 --> 00:31:39,940
Speaker 1: until Reformation and shortly after. And here in America, we

521
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:45,410
Speaker 1: had a post-millennialism started to take place. because America was

522
00:31:45,450 --> 00:31:47,430
Speaker 1: this ascending power and we're like, ah, we're in the

523
00:31:47,470 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: golden age, industrial revolution, it's great. And then Schofield came

524
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,700
Speaker 1: along and was like, actually, we're all going to get raptured.

525
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: And so the debate has raged on. But amillennialism was

526
00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:59,820
Speaker 1: the dominant view for the majority of church history. It

527
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: wasn't the earliest view. It wasn't the earliest majority view.

528
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:08,670
Speaker 1: It existed early, a fair amount. Charles Hill wrote a

529
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:12,690
Speaker 1: great book about that. But premillennialism was probably dominant in

530
00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:15,740
Speaker 1: the first century. a few hundred years of church history,

531
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:22,020
Speaker 1: amillennialism for the majority of church history. So amillennialism is

532
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:26,500
Speaker 1: a misnomer because awe, like someone who's an atheist, does

533
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: not believe in God. It's like the awe means no God, right? Theist, God, right?

534
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,100
Speaker 1: So it would sound as though the amillennialist does not

535
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,340
Speaker 1: believe in a millennium. That's not true. The amillennialist just

536
00:32:39,380 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: believes we're already in the millennium. And I'll say, I

537
00:32:42,620 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: changed on this. When I preached through Revelation, I was

538
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,740
Speaker 1: a premillennialist. But I had never studied verse by verse

539
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: through Revelation. I had never read 50 or more books

540
00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:58,450
Speaker 1: about the book of Revelation, as I eventually did. And so,

541
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:59,750
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't counted, but it was just a

542
00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:04,770
Speaker 1: large number. But anyway, I changed over time. And I

543
00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:07,730
Speaker 1: changed because of Revelation 20, not in spite of it.

544
00:33:08,140 --> 00:33:11,290
Speaker 1: And I also changed because of what the New Testament

545
00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:14,710
Speaker 1: says happens when Christ returns, which we can get to.

546
00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:17,950
Speaker 1: But I'm going to answer your question now. Amillennialists believe

547
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:21,150
Speaker 1: that Christ's reign from heaven, like he reigns from the

548
00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:25,420
Speaker 1: father's right hand. And so the golden age is that

549
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: effectively Christ has undeceived the nations, if you will. By that,

550
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:38,430
Speaker 1: I mean that Israel was flooded with gospel light. And

551
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:42,890
Speaker 1: then when Jesus came, the door swung wide to the Gentiles.

552
00:33:43,050 --> 00:33:46,590
Speaker 1: Paul says a hardening in part has happened with the Jews,

553
00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:50,410
Speaker 1: but now we're in the times of the Gentiles. And

554
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:55,330
Speaker 1: in John 12, 31 and 32, Jesus speaks of the

555
00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:59,430
Speaker 1: significance of the cross and what would follow in opening

556
00:33:59,470 --> 00:34:01,690
Speaker 1: things up to the Gentiles because it was Greeks who

557
00:34:01,730 --> 00:34:05,209
Speaker 1: were searching for him. And the Jews were not so

558
00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:07,810
Speaker 1: interested in him by and large. And the Greeks were

559
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:12,250
Speaker 1: coming to him. And what he says is that he says,

560
00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:16,690
Speaker 1: now the ruler of this world is cast out. He's

561
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:21,299
Speaker 1: talking about Satan. And he says, and the son of man,

562
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: when he is lifted up, will draw all peoples to himself.

563
00:34:24,260 --> 00:34:26,980
Speaker 1: It's a reference to the cross. So at the cross,

564
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:34,330
Speaker 1: Jesus cast out, defeated, judged preliminarily the devil. And in

565
00:34:34,510 --> 00:34:38,350
Speaker 1: judging the devil himself, Now the nations were opened up

566
00:34:38,390 --> 00:34:40,569
Speaker 1: to gospel light. So like if you go back to,

567
00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:44,850
Speaker 1: for instance, Deuteronomy 32 verses eight and nine, it'll reference

568
00:34:44,890 --> 00:34:48,650
Speaker 1: Genesis chapter 11, where you have the tower of Babel

569
00:34:48,670 --> 00:34:51,050
Speaker 1: and even 10, you have the tower, the table of nations.

570
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:54,290
Speaker 1: The tower of Babel is basically the formation of nations.

571
00:34:54,510 --> 00:34:58,509
Speaker 1: People gather and then God scrambles their speech and he

572
00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:00,750
Speaker 1: scatters them to the ends of the earth through this

573
00:35:00,950 --> 00:35:04,300
Speaker 1: judgment upon the nations. And Deuteronomy 32, eight and nine says, I,

574
00:35:04,750 --> 00:35:09,569
Speaker 1: He handed the nations over to their gods, but over

575
00:35:09,610 --> 00:35:11,310
Speaker 1: to the sons of God is what it literally says.

576
00:35:11,410 --> 00:35:15,790
Speaker 1: But these angelic beings, these divine council figures, which would ultimately,

577
00:35:15,830 --> 00:35:19,470
Speaker 1: they become rebellious figures and gods that the nations would worship.

578
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:22,410
Speaker 1: But he says, but I'll adopt Israel for myself, for

579
00:35:22,450 --> 00:35:26,009
Speaker 1: my portion. So from the Tower of Babylon, because Genesis

580
00:35:26,010 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: 12 is the next chapter, Abraham's chosen, God floods Israel

581
00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:35,090
Speaker 1: with gospel light. And then, When Jesus comes, that light

582
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:37,589
Speaker 1: goes global because as Abraham was promised, through you all

583
00:35:37,610 --> 00:35:39,660
Speaker 1: the families of the earth will be blessed. And so

584
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: amillennialists would say, it is a golden age. Now, we

585
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:46,540
Speaker 1: look around, it doesn't look so golden, but look up

586
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:49,049
Speaker 1: because Jesus is seated at the right hand of God

587
00:35:49,070 --> 00:35:52,570
Speaker 1: the Father Almighty. He reigns. He reigns in fulfillment of

588
00:35:52,610 --> 00:35:54,870
Speaker 1: the promise made to David. He reigns from the throne

589
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:59,620
Speaker 1: of David, Acts 2.33 says, And he's leading the forward

590
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,300
Speaker 1: march of the church through the baptism of the Holy Spirit,

591
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,410
Speaker 1: which he's given to the church. And the gospel is

592
00:36:06,430 --> 00:36:08,330
Speaker 1: spreading to the ends of the earth unhindered. And so

593
00:36:08,370 --> 00:36:10,430
Speaker 1: I would say in that sense, it is a golden age.

594
00:36:10,850 --> 00:36:15,250
Speaker 1: And Satan has been judged, cast out, to use a

595
00:36:15,410 --> 00:36:20,340
Speaker 1: John 12 phrase, or bound to use a Revelation 20 phrase.

596
00:36:21,820 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: So I would say that we're in that golden age.

597
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: And then when Christ returns... it's game over. All's made new.

598
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: And so I, I think that's how revelation was meant

599
00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:35,340
Speaker 1: to be understood. And I walk in my book through

600
00:36:36,070 --> 00:36:38,700
Speaker 1: all the reasons from the new Testament in total, uh,

601
00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:41,969
Speaker 1: like what we should expect when Christ returns the points

602
00:36:41,989 --> 00:36:46,730
Speaker 1: toward all millennialism. And I also walk through an explanation

603
00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:49,589
Speaker 1: of revelation 20 and in it, I try to put

604
00:36:49,610 --> 00:36:52,739
Speaker 1: it in everyday speech because it can get pretty scholarly. But, uh,

605
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,230
Speaker 1: for instance, I'll talk about, uh, Those who believe that

606
00:36:56,290 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: when Jesus returns, premillennialists, who believe that when Jesus returns,

607
00:37:00,110 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: he'll launch a thousand-year reign and then ultimately make all

608
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,980
Speaker 1: things new. I talk about that the premillennialist version of

609
00:37:11,219 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: the millennium is being like overtime. It's like the game

610
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,220
Speaker 1: is over, but not really. There's still more to play.

611
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:22,169
Speaker 1: That's premillennialism. Whereas amillennialism says, actually, when Jesus returns, there's

612
00:37:22,190 --> 00:37:26,870
Speaker 1: no thousand-year overtime. When Jesus returns... It's game over. New heavens,

613
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:30,009
Speaker 1: new earth. To quote God the Father, it is done.

614
00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:33,509
Speaker 1: And it is quite interesting that the final bowl, when

615
00:37:33,550 --> 00:37:35,509
Speaker 1: it's poured out, the wrath of God, it says, it

616
00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:41,390
Speaker 1: is done. Revelation 17. 16, actually. That's the seventh bowl.

617
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:46,109
Speaker 1: And then in Revelation 21, God says, it is done.

618
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:48,250
Speaker 1: The former things, death and mourning and all those things

619
00:37:48,270 --> 00:37:51,270
Speaker 1: have passed away. Now I make all things new. When

620
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:53,930
Speaker 1: you hear it is done twice in the span of

621
00:37:53,969 --> 00:37:58,290
Speaker 1: a few chapters, the implications that we should understand those together.

622
00:37:58,969 --> 00:38:01,980
Speaker 1: What's done. The wrath of God is finished. No more

623
00:38:02,060 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: extra wars, no more extra death. Death is finished. Former

624
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,259
Speaker 1: things are finished to quote revelation 21 and the new

625
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,530
Speaker 1: age begins. So that's how I would understand it. Yeah.

626
00:38:11,570 --> 00:38:15,390
Speaker 3: You say in the book, premillennialists believe that after Jesus returned,

627
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:19,010
Speaker 3: surviving unbelievers will have a thousand years of second chances,

628
00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:21,450
Speaker 3: but this violates second Peter three, nine.

629
00:38:21,469 --> 00:38:21,540
Speaker 2: Yes.

630
00:38:22,570 --> 00:38:27,530
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, so 2 Peter 3.9 says that, like, it

631
00:38:27,570 --> 00:38:31,050
Speaker 1: explains why God is, quote, slow in fulfilling his promises.

632
00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: Why has it taken so long for Jesus to come back? Well,

633
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: Peter explains he's waiting for more people to come to repentance.

634
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: He wants more people to be saved. And the implication

635
00:38:42,260 --> 00:38:45,580
Speaker 1: there is that now is the time to be saved.

636
00:38:45,820 --> 00:38:49,580
Speaker 1: Now is the time of probation. After Jesus comes back,

637
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: his point is, after Jesus comes back, there are no

638
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: more second chances. But in the premillennialist framework, there are

639
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: actually a thousand years of second chances. It also just

640
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:04,140
Speaker 1: feels quite a stretch to believe that Jesus would rip

641
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: the sky, come back in glory, destroy unbelievers at Armageddon,

642
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:13,130
Speaker 1: come down to the earth like a glorified spaceman. And

643
00:39:14,650 --> 00:39:18,970
Speaker 1: with billions of believers who are glowing like the sun

644
00:39:19,450 --> 00:39:23,530
Speaker 1: and celestial beings and all of that's happening and unbelievers

645
00:39:23,550 --> 00:39:26,330
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I don't believe. I mean, that's just

646
00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:28,050
Speaker 1: hard for me to believe, honestly.

647
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:31,450
Speaker 3: And also, I mean, one of the things that I

648
00:39:31,469 --> 00:39:35,170
Speaker 3: remember in seminary, in one of my theology classes, I, I,

649
00:39:35,489 --> 00:39:39,310
Speaker 3: we were talking about this and I said, the premillennial

650
00:39:39,370 --> 00:39:44,210
Speaker 3: view is confusing to me because it, it, it, uh,

651
00:39:45,350 --> 00:39:47,590
Speaker 3: demands multiple resurrections.

652
00:39:48,450 --> 00:39:49,859
Speaker 1: Like, yeah. Right?

653
00:39:49,950 --> 00:39:52,950
Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't make any sense that there's going

654
00:39:52,969 --> 00:39:56,190
Speaker 3: to be this resurrection and then there's this thousand years

655
00:39:56,330 --> 00:40:00,410
Speaker 3: of still a sinful world and people getting saved. And

656
00:40:00,430 --> 00:40:03,330
Speaker 3: then there's going to be another resurrection and another. Like,

657
00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: it's just, it doesn't, it's not Occam's razor.

658
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. And so I do talk about that in

659
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,980
Speaker 1: my book. And to be fair, in Revelation 20, it

660
00:40:15,020 --> 00:40:17,100
Speaker 1: does mention a first and second resurrection.

661
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:17,219
Speaker 3: Right.

662
00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:22,900
Speaker 1: And, uh, and so that has to be grappled with. And, uh,

663
00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:25,500
Speaker 1: I go into great detail in that, in my book,

664
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,819
Speaker 1: but in a way I think that is highly readable. Um,

665
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,940
Speaker 1: so yeah, I, I think that's a challenge, but you know,

666
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: on that, like, uh, you know, like right now, if

667
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: a Christian dies, their spirit goes down, like everything I

668
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: just explained to you, and then they receive the resurrection

669
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,350
Speaker 1: body afterward. Premillennialism, it's, it's hard to imagine, like you

670
00:40:45,370 --> 00:40:50,090
Speaker 1: mentioned multiple resurrections, it's almost like, are there millions of resurrections?

671
00:40:50,810 --> 00:40:54,890
Speaker 1: Because what happens to somebody, what happens to a Christian

672
00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:58,170
Speaker 1: who gets saved during the millennium, so they go into

673
00:40:58,190 --> 00:41:01,930
Speaker 1: the millennium unsaved, but then they get saved and they're like, okay,

674
00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:05,029
Speaker 1: I believe in this Jesus. They give their life to him,

675
00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:10,210
Speaker 1: but they don't have a glorified body. So what happens

676
00:41:10,270 --> 00:41:12,069
Speaker 1: when they die, where do they go? They can't go

677
00:41:12,090 --> 00:41:15,509
Speaker 1: to heaven. Jesus is here on earth. It's real confusing.

678
00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:19,210
Speaker 1: Like something, It's been proposed like they're like popcorn resurrections

679
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:23,370
Speaker 1: throughout the new millennium. I'm not saying that's a majority view.

680
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: And there's usually just an appeal to mystery. But it's

681
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,219
Speaker 1: quite a problem. I think maybe the biggest problem, one

682
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,259
Speaker 1: of the biggest problems is actually the temple. Because they

683
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: will say that Ezekiel's temple from Ezekiel 40 through 48,

684
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: Ezekiel describes this elaborate temple with sacrifices that are performed

685
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,860
Speaker 1: that forgive sins. like atonement is achieved there. And so

686
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,490
Speaker 1: when you get to Revelation chapter 20, what they'll say is, well,

687
00:41:54,690 --> 00:41:56,850
Speaker 1: or when you get to the millennium, they'll say the

688
00:41:56,930 --> 00:42:00,589
Speaker 1: premillennialist will say most of them, almost all of them,

689
00:42:01,770 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: that sacrifices will continue. I think that violates the book

690
00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: of Hebrews. The book of Hebrews says we don't need

691
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: sacrifices anymore because of Jesus. And the way they explain

692
00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:14,460
Speaker 1: that is they say, well, we'll just, we'll offer sacrifices.

693
00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: Technically Levites will offer sacrifices, but it'll be for a

694
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: memorial just to remember what Christ did. But to that,

695
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,660
Speaker 1: I'm like, um, uh, communion. That's one of the purposes

696
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,739
Speaker 1: of communion is to remember what Christ did. I don't

697
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,510
Speaker 1: think we need that. Number one, number two, if you're,

698
00:42:30,830 --> 00:42:34,050
Speaker 1: if you're riffing off of Ezekiel's temple, those sacrifices actually

699
00:42:34,090 --> 00:42:38,589
Speaker 1: forgave sin. And so if you're willing to call that symbolic,

700
00:42:38,610 --> 00:42:40,210
Speaker 1: then why don't we say the whole thing is symbolic?

701
00:42:40,510 --> 00:42:42,870
Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say, is that there is

702
00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:45,990
Speaker 1: no mention of the temple in the millennium in Revelation 20.

703
00:42:45,989 --> 00:42:48,029
Speaker 1: But in Revelation 21 to 22, when you get to

704
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:50,030
Speaker 1: the new heavens and the new earth, there are eight

705
00:42:50,110 --> 00:42:54,299
Speaker 1: or more allusions to Ezekiel's temple in that chapter, even

706
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,540
Speaker 1: though John says there will be no temple in the

707
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,500
Speaker 1: new heavens and the new earth. And so what Ezekiel

708
00:43:01,540 --> 00:43:04,990
Speaker 1: saw as a vision of this incredible temple is fulfilled

709
00:43:05,010 --> 00:43:07,670
Speaker 1: according to John's revelation, not in the millennium, but in

710
00:43:07,690 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: the new heavens and the new earth, where where basically

711
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,060
Speaker 1: the whole earth is the temple. In fact, new Jerusalem

712
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: is shaped like a perfect cube, which recalls first Kings

713
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: six 20, where the most holy place is a cube.

714
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: Also new Jerusalem fills the whole earth. I agree with

715
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,779
Speaker 1: many scholars who say, and I'm not many of the

716
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:33,370
Speaker 1: scholars who say new Jerusalem and the new heavens and

717
00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:37,190
Speaker 1: new earth, that's all one in the same. It's new creation,

718
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:41,580
Speaker 1: new Jerusalem, And even a new Eden, he makes all

719
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: things new. And what's happening is God's going back to

720
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: his original design. Genesis chapter one, God created the whole

721
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,529
Speaker 1: earth to be his temple. Eden was like the most

722
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:55,070
Speaker 1: holy place. And then it was kind of concentric circles

723
00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:58,350
Speaker 1: from there. But the whole earth was a temple because

724
00:43:58,390 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: God wanted to dwell with his people on earth. And

725
00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:03,489
Speaker 1: he'll recreate that at the end of the age. So

726
00:44:03,650 --> 00:44:06,549
Speaker 1: what Ezekiel prophesied in the form of architecture, it was

727
00:44:06,610 --> 00:44:11,819
Speaker 1: all symbolic according to John and his illusions of the

728
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,860
Speaker 1: greater fulfillment that will happen when God achieves his original goal.

729
00:44:15,460 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: The whole creation is God's temple. Everywhere we go will

730
00:44:20,620 --> 00:44:22,250
Speaker 1: be the most holy place. And I know you said

731
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:23,910
Speaker 1: we'll finish on the millennium, but I think we've got

732
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:26,410
Speaker 1: to finish here, the new heavens and the new earth,

733
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:31,630
Speaker 1: which is a place where God wipes away every tear. And, um,

734
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:34,089
Speaker 1: And the new heavens and the new earth is just,

735
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:36,629
Speaker 1: it's like, I just want to tell Christians, hey, your

736
00:44:36,670 --> 00:44:41,890
Speaker 1: eternal future isn't a disembodied experience in heaven. And you're

737
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:44,350
Speaker 1: not just like floating from cloud to cloud, like on

738
00:44:44,410 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: some Renaissance painting. Your future, it'll be like Eden times

739
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,540
Speaker 1: a thousand. It'll be civilizations because that's New Jerusalem. It's

740
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,739
Speaker 1: the city of God. It's going to be, there's going

741
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: to be work to do. We'll reign, it says, but

742
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,820
Speaker 1: that's not an eternal, like, photo shoot like a British

743
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: royalty to reign in the biblical way is to be

744
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,899
Speaker 1: like Adam and Eve were to reign to subdue, reign

745
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,660
Speaker 1: over to subdue the earth. The cultural mandate will continue

746
00:45:12,700 --> 00:45:14,620
Speaker 1: to create in God's new world. So I go into

747
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,170
Speaker 1: great detail as to what it will feel like, what

748
00:45:18,190 --> 00:45:20,529
Speaker 1: it will be like, what will be the proportion of

749
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:22,730
Speaker 1: saved to lost. I mean, I go into all of

750
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:26,930
Speaker 1: those kinds of questions of curiosity that arise when you

751
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:29,509
Speaker 1: walk through these images. And I would say people ask

752
00:45:29,530 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: me what my favorite chapter is of my book, the

753
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,900
Speaker 1: one that I wrote, The World Made Right. I would

754
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,290
Speaker 1: say the last one because that's where all the hope coalesces.

755
00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:42,770
Speaker 1: And it's just absolutely beautiful. Yeah.

756
00:45:42,830 --> 00:45:45,270
Speaker 3: Can we get to that really quickly? Yeah.

757
00:45:47,260 --> 00:45:49,739
Speaker 1: I know we've gone long but talking about the whole

758
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,819
Speaker 1: book of Revelation is.

759
00:45:50,820 --> 00:45:58,770
Speaker 3: A tall order the glorious ending I love it there's

760
00:45:59,010 --> 00:46:01,630
Speaker 3: actually now that you brought it up I have to

761
00:46:01,710 --> 00:46:05,969
Speaker 3: ask you because you mentioned you have a section and

762
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:09,110
Speaker 3: you ask the question will there be few in heaven

763
00:46:09,130 --> 00:46:14,530
Speaker 3: so just briefly talk about that because that was interesting

764
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:16,790
Speaker 3: to me that was fascinating Yeah.

765
00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:21,300
Speaker 1: Okay. So I want to look up the section really quick.

766
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's what will be the proportion of the

767
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: saved to the lost. And the reason the question comes

768
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,950
Speaker 1: up is because you do have some verses in the

769
00:46:34,989 --> 00:46:38,330
Speaker 1: gospels where Jesus will say like, narrow is the road

770
00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:40,870
Speaker 1: that leads to life and few find it. Broad is

771
00:46:40,890 --> 00:46:43,770
Speaker 1: the gate that leads to destruction, many find it. And

772
00:46:43,810 --> 00:46:47,180
Speaker 1: I think we have to take that like versus like

773
00:46:47,219 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: that really seriously, we can't explain it away. Uh, w

774
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,219
Speaker 1: we can't become universalist. Who's like, ah, Jesus didn't really

775
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: mean it. And everybody gets in. No, we can't do that.

776
00:46:57,460 --> 00:47:00,580
Speaker 1: So we have to take that seriously, but equally seriously,

777
00:47:00,860 --> 00:47:07,250
Speaker 1: we have to take the fact that new Jerusalem was mammoth, uh,

778
00:47:07,330 --> 00:47:11,830
Speaker 1: like not, it filled the entire known world. According to

779
00:47:11,890 --> 00:47:14,770
Speaker 1: John's proportions that he gives, which I believe are symbolic proportions.

780
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,460
Speaker 1: but it's not symbolic of something small. It also ascends

781
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:20,779
Speaker 1: up into space. I think I said 233 times higher

782
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: than airplanes fly. So this is a huge city, the

783
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,970
Speaker 1: city of God. And of course, I believe it's designed

784
00:47:27,989 --> 00:47:30,910
Speaker 1: to be huge because it's New Jerusalem, New Heavens, New Earth.

785
00:47:30,989 --> 00:47:35,930
Speaker 1: It's all one. But why is it so huge? And

786
00:47:36,090 --> 00:47:41,410
Speaker 1: why are the gates perpetually open? I don't think that

787
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:44,779
Speaker 1: it's because God intends for New Jerusalem to be a

788
00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:48,500
Speaker 1: ghost town. I think it's because he intends to fill

789
00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: his eternal city with people. And throughout Revelation, you see

790
00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:55,589
Speaker 1: multitudes of people from every tongue, tribe, and nation, like

791
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,910
Speaker 1: innumerable tribes being saved. And you look at the gospel,

792
00:48:00,330 --> 00:48:03,850
Speaker 1: Matthew 24, 14. When does the end come? Jesus tells us.

793
00:48:04,450 --> 00:48:07,170
Speaker 1: This gospel of the kingdom will be preached to all nations,

794
00:48:07,290 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: and then the end will come. And so the gospel

795
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,050
Speaker 1: goes out to all revelation. We see all tribes, tongues,

796
00:48:13,110 --> 00:48:15,610
Speaker 1: and nations in heaven. And so what I say in

797
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,430
Speaker 1: my book is that we can't swing all the way

798
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:24,730
Speaker 1: to universalism because universalism is heresy. But we also can't

799
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:29,509
Speaker 1: swing to particularism because particularism is tragedy. You know, a

800
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:31,750
Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, I was listening to some

801
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:38,570
Speaker 1: Pentecostal super legalistic preacher today. Only three people are in heaven. Yeah, exactly.

802
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:41,029
Speaker 1: Railing on women who wear makeup and like, you know,

803
00:48:41,130 --> 00:48:43,430
Speaker 1: none of them are even our brothers and sisters or

804
00:48:43,469 --> 00:48:46,850
Speaker 1: none of them are sisters. I'm like, bro, you're shuttering

805
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:49,930
Speaker 1: the gates of New Jerusalem, which God describes as mammoth.

806
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:54,450
Speaker 1: And so I quote from several scholars on this that,

807
00:48:57,140 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: and I'll just read a couple of quotes. I say,

808
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm not the only, let's see, I'm not the only

809
00:49:04,580 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: conservative Bible teacher who observes this. Theological giant B.B. Warfield

810
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,009
Speaker 1: takes it even farther. He says, the number of the

811
00:49:11,070 --> 00:49:14,850
Speaker 1: saved shall in the end be not small but large,

812
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 1: and not merely absolutely but comparatively large. To speak plainly,

813
00:49:19,739 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: it shall embrace the immensely greater part of the human race.

814
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 1: As a Warfield was not alone, Charles Spurgeon, my favorite preacher,

815
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: rejected what he called the, quote, continual whining about a

816
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,180
Speaker 1: tiny remnant, insisting that Christ could not truly have the

817
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:39,270
Speaker 1: preeminence if Satan's kingdom finally outnumbered his Likewise, Charles Hodge,

818
00:49:39,570 --> 00:49:43,009
Speaker 1: hardly given to speculation, concluded that the number of the

819
00:49:43,070 --> 00:49:46,830
Speaker 1: finally lost in comparison with the whole number of the

820
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:49,069
Speaker 1: saved will be very inconsiderable.

821
00:49:49,780 --> 00:49:49,980
Speaker 3: Wow.

822
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: So I walk through how can that possibly be? We

823
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: only have 2.4 billion people even claiming the name of

824
00:49:57,460 --> 00:50:01,609
Speaker 1: Christ right now. Certainly all those can't be genuine conversions.

825
00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:05,950
Speaker 1: And so I wrestle through that and I go into

826
00:50:06,030 --> 00:50:10,050
Speaker 1: scripture and to just practical things and try to explain

827
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:12,990
Speaker 1: how can it be that God's going to fill this

828
00:50:13,610 --> 00:50:18,610
Speaker 1: giant mammoth New Jerusalem while still accounting for some of

829
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:20,989
Speaker 1: the other texts such as in Matthew 7 about a

830
00:50:21,010 --> 00:50:24,070
Speaker 1: narrow road. So anyway, I think at the end of

831
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:26,950
Speaker 1: the day, God doesn't tell us the number, but I

832
00:50:26,969 --> 00:50:28,489
Speaker 1: think it's going to be a lot more than a

833
00:50:28,590 --> 00:50:31,030
Speaker 1: lot of people think because I think we have legalism

834
00:50:31,090 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: built into our blood and we are consistently trying to

835
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:37,430
Speaker 1: shutter the gates of heaven to exclusively our denomination or sect.

836
00:50:38,530 --> 00:50:40,450
Speaker 3: Yeah, and by the way, if you haven't put your

837
00:50:40,489 --> 00:50:42,670
Speaker 3: faith in Christ, you don't want to miss out on

838
00:50:42,690 --> 00:50:43,170
Speaker 3: this party.

839
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:45,830
Speaker 1: You do not. You don't want to miss out on

840
00:50:45,850 --> 00:50:47,270
Speaker 1: this glorious reality.

841
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:51,930
Speaker 3: So please, I urge you to put your faith in

842
00:50:51,950 --> 00:50:56,469
Speaker 3: Christ and you will enjoy all of this. We're going

843
00:50:56,489 --> 00:51:00,090
Speaker 3: to leave it there, Michael. And your book is The

844
00:51:00,150 --> 00:51:04,230
Speaker 3: World Made Right. Finding Confident Hope in the Book of Revelation.

845
00:51:04,250 --> 00:51:07,969
Speaker 3: I love it. I commend it to everyone. And it's not, again,

846
00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:11,750
Speaker 3: it's not like crazy big. It's not long. And it's

847
00:51:11,790 --> 00:51:15,790
Speaker 3: very readable. And I love it. So thank you, Michael,

848
00:51:15,830 --> 00:51:18,230
Speaker 3: for coming on. I wish that you were a little

849
00:51:18,270 --> 00:51:21,710
Speaker 3: more biblically literate because, I mean, it's a shame that

850
00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:24,250
Speaker 3: we have to deal with your lack of knowledge. But

851
00:51:24,310 --> 00:51:27,109
Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on and talking about this.

852
00:51:27,770 --> 00:51:28,110
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

853
00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:30,259
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, and I want to say too, cause

854
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,779
Speaker 1: like you mentioned readable and I, I really aim for that,

855
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,529
Speaker 1: not just in just explanations, but also I tell a

856
00:51:36,570 --> 00:51:40,489
Speaker 1: lot of stories in the book, like personal stories. And, um,

857
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:43,510
Speaker 1: and I think cause revelation is self as a story,

858
00:51:43,550 --> 00:51:46,310
Speaker 1: it's a cosmic story. And I think it helps put

859
00:51:46,370 --> 00:51:51,340
Speaker 1: flesh and bone on how is this applicable to me

860
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: in my everyday life. And so I really try to

861
00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:57,940
Speaker 1: help people, um, I guess I try to put handles

862
00:51:58,020 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: on everything. So it's like they can really begin to

863
00:51:59,940 --> 00:52:04,170
Speaker 1: grasp the beauty and the wonder and the awe of

864
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:07,750
Speaker 1: these visions and what it means for just everyday life.

865
00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:10,410
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my bad. I should have mentioned, it was

866
00:52:10,450 --> 00:52:13,690
Speaker 3: my responsibility to mention the personal anecdotes you tell in

867
00:52:13,710 --> 00:52:13,930
Speaker 3: the book.

868
00:52:14,330 --> 00:52:17,130
Speaker 1: Oh, no, you're a great interviewer.

869
00:52:17,150 --> 00:52:20,290
Speaker 3: Thank you for embarrassing me and shaming me. But no,

870
00:52:21,450 --> 00:52:22,570
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, Michael.

871
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:26,090
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks guys for tuning in.

872
00:52:26,410 --> 00:52:29,900
Speaker 3: Wait, don't touch that dial. Please like and subscribe. And also,

873
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 3: please consider becoming a patron on Patreon. For as little

874
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,859
Speaker 3: as $ 5 a month, you can really help us out

875
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 3: on the show. The link is below. And we so,

876
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 3: so appreciate it.

877
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: Thank you.

878
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett

879
00:52:46,180 --> 00:52:51,500
Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes

880
00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:54,700
Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.

881
00:52:55,570 --> 00:52:57,750
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry,