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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Well, welcome to today's Out of Zion podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Susan Michael, and just so happy

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Speaker 1: to have with me today a longtime friend and colleague

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Speaker 1: and the pro Israel movement. A pastor, and that's Pastor

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Speaker 1: Alan Jackson. So Alan, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's my privileged Susan.

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Speaker 1: So, you are the senior pastor at World Outreach Church

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Speaker 1: in Murphy'sboro, Tennessee. I am it is a megachurch. You've

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Speaker 1: built a very, very strong and large ministry. You're a broadcaster,

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Speaker 1: You're on TBN, and I don't even know where all

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Speaker 1: you are. But you began as a young person that

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Speaker 1: had the privilege and the opportunity of making that trip

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Speaker 1: to Israel. So I want our audience to hear your

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Speaker 1: story of how you first got there and how God

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Speaker 1: brought you into this ministry.

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Speaker 3: My first trip to Israel when I was in the

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Speaker 3: sixth grade.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a break and hear a message from one

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Speaker 4: of our sponsors. Welcome to the Israel Answer Series, Connecting

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Speaker 4: Israel the Bible, and you join Susan Michael as she

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Speaker 4: explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective

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Speaker 4: to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response.

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Speaker 4: Be sure to subscribe for future episodes which will ignite

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Speaker 4: your faith and bring the Bible to life in your

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Speaker 4: everyday world. Now let's join Susan with your Israel answers.

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Speaker 3: My parents took us on a tour with Derek and

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Speaker 3: Lydia Prince, and I still remember walking down King George

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Speaker 3: Street and brother Prince teaching me the letters from the

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Speaker 3: Hebrew alphabet off the signs along the street. And so

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Speaker 3: Israel became a part of my story really early.

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Speaker 2: And then I had.

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Speaker 3: The opportunity to go back and studied Hebrew University in

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Speaker 3: Jerusalem and have been in and out of Jewish or

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Speaker 3: Israel on a regular basis, you know, all the years.

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Speaker 3: But just recognize the great debt we have to the

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Speaker 3: Jewish people. Without the Jewish people, we have no story.

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Speaker 3: We have no scripture, no covenants, no prophets, no Messiah.

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Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that.

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Speaker 3: Everything the Nation of Israel does I would agree with

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Speaker 3: or that I think is you know, as a policy

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Speaker 3: matter is correct. But we have a responsibility I believe

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Speaker 3: to be advocates for the Jewish people and their right

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Speaker 3: to that piece of length.

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Speaker 1: So your story just emphasizes what I tend to say

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Speaker 1: over and over and over is the importance of getting

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Speaker 1: young people to Israel because it impacted the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life. It impacted your ministry, your calling and everything.

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Speaker 2: So go on.

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Speaker 1: Your father had started a church, right they did.

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Speaker 3: My parents had a home Bible study for a dozen years,

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Speaker 3: and out of that congregation was birthed, and it's the

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Speaker 3: congregation I served today. So when I came back, there

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Speaker 3: were fewer than thirty people and we had a tent.

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Speaker 3: So it's not always been the significant, you know, in size.

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Speaker 3: Most of the jobs I've done in the church were

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Speaker 3: not very just looked a whole lot like work. You know.

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Speaker 3: I cleaned and painted and did all the things that

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Speaker 3: you do. But as you serve God's people, if you're

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Speaker 3: faithful with the task that God puts in front of you,

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Speaker 3: then I have found him to be faithful to continue

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Speaker 3: to expand that circle.

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Speaker 2: And he's still doing that today.

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Speaker 1: Amen, you grew up in the ministry that you now lead.

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Speaker 2: I really did to the extent that I've grown up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So now you of course lead your church on

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Speaker 1: tours to Israel. I'm sure you teach regularly about the

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Speaker 1: biblical significance of Israel.

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Speaker 2: We do.

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Speaker 1: You have ingrained that into the DNA of World Outreach

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Speaker 1: Church in Murphresboro. You're known around the world for that

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Speaker 1: as a leading church in America in support of Israel.

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Speaker 1: But I have to imagine that you've been facing increased

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Speaker 1: challenges in that we see a rise of the influence

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Speaker 1: of so social media on our young people. We see

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Speaker 1: the proliferation of lies about Israel and the Jewish people,

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Speaker 1: and they're hitting our congregants, and so this has to

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Speaker 1: you have to be seeing an increased challenge. Could you

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Speaker 1: share a little bit about what you're seeing and how

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Speaker 1: you're addressing it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think since the war, since October the seventh,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't at all surprised that Hamas hated Israelis. We

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Speaker 3: all have known that very long time, So the actual

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Speaker 3: nature that attack wasn't a surprise to me at all.

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Speaker 3: I was very surprised by the responses that I began

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Speaker 3: to see at some of the formerly elite university campuses.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't that I didn't think anti Semitisms existed, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't think they would be so brazen.

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Speaker 2: But from that day until today it has grown.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't diminished until now it's being expressed on the

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Speaker 3: right side of the ideological spectrum and once again echoing

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Speaker 3: from the churches.

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Speaker 2: But you know the history as well as I do.

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Speaker 3: The Church has been the great is harbinger of the

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Speaker 3: anti Semitism and hatred of the Jewish people for almost

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Speaker 3: too millennia, So we shouldn't be surprised. But it's uncomfortable,

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Speaker 3: and I think we have to be creative and use

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Speaker 3: our voices and be determined.

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Speaker 2: Most people, there's two things they don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they understand biblically, you know, the significance

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Speaker 3: of the Jewish people. The common line that the churches

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Speaker 3: used through the centuries is the Jews killed Jesus.

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Speaker 2: That's not really technically accurate. Jesus was crucified.

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Speaker 3: That that's a Roman punishment, and you know, the Jews

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Speaker 3: would have stoned Jesus if it had been a Jewish punishment.

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Speaker 3: So the Romans executed Jesus. They certainly had some compliance

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Speaker 3: from a subset of the Jewish people, but multiplied thousands

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Speaker 3: of people in first century Israel were very much advocates

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Speaker 3: for Jesus. And then the second thing that Christians don't

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Speaker 3: know is our own history almost too millennia of persecution.

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Speaker 3: Even the early Church fathers, some of the significant reformers

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Speaker 3: had very hateful and scriptural attitudes towards the Jewish people.

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Speaker 3: You know, the Spanish Inquisition, the Portuguese Inquisition. The Nazis

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Speaker 3: weren't able to do what they did without the help

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Speaker 3: of Christian Europe. Christian Europe gave up the Jewish people

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Speaker 3: in World War Two. And when the Christians realize that,

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Speaker 3: it tends to blunt the accusation that the Jewish people

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Speaker 3: have rejected our expressions of kindness and no wonder they

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Speaker 3: think we're the ones that were putting them in the

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Speaker 3: ovens or on the trains due to the death camps

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Speaker 3: and so.

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Speaker 2: But once we understand our history, we're in a much

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Speaker 2: better position than to begin to build relationships.

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Speaker 1: Well, when you talk to other pastors and what examples

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Speaker 1: could you give them of things that they can do

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Speaker 1: from your experience, what you're doing in your church, in

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Speaker 1: other words, to help combat this, to make a difference.

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Speaker 1: I know you're taking congregants to Israel on tour, but

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Speaker 1: what other things are you doing? And how important is

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Speaker 1: that trip to Israel for your church?

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Speaker 2: You know we have done.

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Speaker 3: I've been taking groups of people at Israel for many,

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Speaker 3: many years, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Not an easy trip. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's seven thousand miles and a lot of playing time,

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Speaker 3: and the connections are very seldom simple.

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Speaker 2: But there's nothing.

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Speaker 3: What I always tell the people, I don't know anything

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Speaker 3: that will change your life as much is that ten

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Speaker 3: or eleven day trip.

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Speaker 2: I would trade any year of.

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Speaker 3: Graduate school I ever had, and I had the privilege

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Speaker 3: of studying in some very celebrated places. But you'll take

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Speaker 3: more away from a week in the land of Israel.

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Speaker 2: And it's not the.

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Speaker 3: Piles of rocks or the holy sites, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: the exposure to the people and the land and what

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Speaker 3: is happening there that is truly transformational.

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Speaker 2: I like to visit all the sites. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: a junkie. I'm in but I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how many.

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Speaker 3: I've been many, many, many times, and I still learn

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Speaker 3: every time I go. And it's Jerusalem is safer than Nashville.

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Speaker 3: My wife Kathy walks the streets of Jerusalem by herself,

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Speaker 3: very contentedly and I would. She wouldn't be comfortable doing

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Speaker 3: that in Nashville. So I fear is the reason for

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Speaker 3: staying home. It's really misguided. And so the food is wonderful,

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Speaker 3: the hotels are delightful. It's a safe place, and it

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Speaker 3: will change your faith. So for those people listening first

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Speaker 3: and foremost, visit the land of Israel.

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Speaker 2: It will change you, and take young people with you.

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Speaker 3: They'll be better prepared to respond to the hatred of

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Speaker 3: the Jewish people that's becoming so prevalent in social media if.

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Speaker 2: They have been there and they have experienced the people.

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Speaker 1: I always say the antidote to anti Semitism is relationship.

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Speaker 1: That you need to at least meet a Jewish person.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely build a relationship, and that will be the best

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Speaker 1: cure and pushback cure. But so continue what things do

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Speaker 1: your church? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think for the leaders in the church, I think

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Speaker 2: we have to.

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Speaker 3: You know, religious people in general, but Christians is the

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Speaker 3: side of the equation where I live. We are very

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Speaker 3: susceptible to pride. You know, our belief system is the best,

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Speaker 3: and the way we worship is the best, and how

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Speaker 3: we take communion is the best. And the Christian community

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Speaker 3: has fallen a bit prey to doing that, and we

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Speaker 3: think a way of cementing our excellence is diminishing the

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Speaker 3: Jewish people. And so what I try to do is

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Speaker 3: explain to the congregation that our story is inseparable from

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Speaker 3: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You know, he

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Speaker 3: did not identify himself as the God of the Methodist,

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Speaker 3: the Baptist in the Church of Christ. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: opposed to those groups, but we have an unmistakable connection.

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Speaker 3: The God we worshiped is identified for eternity with the

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Speaker 3: Jewish people.

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Speaker 2: So maybe we better.

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Speaker 3: Reconcile there, and just bit by bit, I try to

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Speaker 3: integrate it into the messaging that we give to the

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Speaker 3: congregation on a regular basis, so that it isn't a

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Speaker 3: surprise or a shock.

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Speaker 2: You know. It doesn't mean that we are advocates for

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Speaker 2: everything the Jewish people or the nation of Israel does.

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Speaker 2: I'm not. On the other hand, I'm not an advocate

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Speaker 2: of everything the United States does exact, and I'm certainly not.

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Speaker 3: An advocate of everything that Iran does, or Venezuela does,

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Speaker 3: or Cuba does. And and yet we celebrate the Chinese

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Speaker 3: people or the Russian people of the Ukrainian people. So

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Speaker 3: I think the Christians have been co opted a little

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Speaker 3: bit by this, and we have a long history of that.

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Speaker 3: But we can make a huge difference by simply using

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Speaker 3: our voices and our little spheres of influence and saying

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Speaker 3: I'm an advocate for the Jewish people.

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Speaker 2: It'll change everything.

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Speaker 1: Well, you have you're in a town with the largest

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Speaker 1: i think, largest university.

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Speaker 2: In Tennessee, largest undergraduate university in the state.

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Speaker 1: Middle Tennessee State University. Yes, so you probably have a

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Speaker 1: lot of students that attend your church, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the college age large group. What do you see, what

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Speaker 1: have you seen and heard an experienced there that proves

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Speaker 1: the challenge of today? Like even though they may be Christian,

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Speaker 1: they're going to a lot of Christians attend Middle Tennessee

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Speaker 1: even though it's not it's a secular university. But still

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Speaker 1: they're being influenced by social media. And have you seen

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Speaker 1: the results of that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think for young the social media is certainly

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Speaker 3: a huge influence. Then the other is I think academia

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Speaker 3: in general. You know, we have rejected a biblical worldview,

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Speaker 3: a Judeo Christian worldview almost completely in the academic world,

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Speaker 3: and those two things combined are causing young people to

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Speaker 3: repudiate the traditional Christian values often that they've inherited from

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Speaker 3: their families, in fact the faculty. And it's not even

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Speaker 3: at the at the college level. I find it in

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Speaker 3: other institutions. They stand up and say, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to here. You have to unlearn what your parents

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Speaker 3: taught you or what your pastor taught you. If your

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Speaker 3: children are in one of those schools, either have the

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Speaker 3: professor fired or move your children. Yes, do not tolerate

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Speaker 3: that kind of insanity, but.

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Speaker 2: The young people.

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Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I find that if you

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Speaker 3: give them the truth and encourage them in it, they

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Speaker 3: are so grateful for it. So I don't find them

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Speaker 3: to be belligerent or you know, intractable at all. I

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Speaker 3: just think they're looking for a way to understand the

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Speaker 3: world and what's happening.

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Speaker 1: They're a little confused, they are, and they just need

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Speaker 1: help in their hearts. Are in the right place. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about Christian young people, absolutely, yeah, And my heart

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Speaker 1: is really to help provide them with the answers that

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Speaker 1: they're looking for because they're they're they're great. I love

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Speaker 1: Generation Z and and uh want to want to provide

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Speaker 1: those answers for them. So we so appreciate World Outreach Church.

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Speaker 1: I know you've done. You've built a large ministry, but

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Speaker 1: one that's solidly biblical, biblically based, and solidly in support

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Speaker 1: of Israel and the Jura people.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a break and hear a message from one

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Speaker 4: of our sponsors. Welcome back to the Out of Zion

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Speaker 4: podcast with Susan Michael.

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Speaker 2: The ICE EJ.

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Speaker 3: You do such a great job of educating and informing

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Speaker 3: and advocating. I know you take that assignment very seriously,

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Speaker 3: and you have for quite a season.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for that dates well, and thank you

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Speaker 1: for your support of the I C. E J over

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Speaker 1: the years. It has not been a small thing and

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Speaker 1: we appreciate that. But now let's talk about the book

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Speaker 1: that you have just published. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: It is just now. We just got called Lead.

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Speaker 1: With Faith, using your influence for God's purposes. I love

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Speaker 1: the title already, So tell me a bit about what's

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Speaker 1: behind this book and you're what you wrote here, well.

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Speaker 2: It's a very straightforward principle.

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Speaker 3: I was aware that in the congregation we have a

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Speaker 3: collection of very, very talented leaders in business and academia

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Speaker 3: and all of their special interest. They have tremendous numbers

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Speaker 3: of people that look to them and care about their

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Speaker 3: opinion and what they think. But I also recognize that

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Speaker 3: that same group of people were very reluctant to lead

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Speaker 3: with their faith. If you ask them to pray in

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Speaker 3: public or to comment on a Bible verse, they become

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Speaker 3: very hesitant. Well, I'm not a biblical scholar, I'm not

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Speaker 3: a and we have to change that process. For every

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Speaker 3: person has a sphere of influence. And if we will

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Speaker 3: go into that sphere of influence and let it be

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Speaker 3: known first and foremost that we are advocates for Jesus,

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Speaker 3: not that we can answer every problem or we can

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Speaker 3: give an account for every inconsistency, but that we will

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Speaker 3: be unrelenting advocates for Jesus of Nazareth, we actually become

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Speaker 3: salt and light. And if we're not engaging our culture

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Speaker 3: with biblical truth, I really question whether we're legitimate Christians.

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Speaker 3: So we don't have to preach sermons, we don't have

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Speaker 3: to be able to answer all the hard questions. You know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what every verse in the Bible means.

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Speaker 3: I'm still learning, but I intend to be caught leading

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Speaker 3: with my faith, and I want to encourage all the

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Speaker 3: people around me. There's some tremendous leaders, and we have

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Speaker 3: to take our faith back into the boardroom, back into

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Speaker 3: the academic settings, back into the quarters of hospitals, back

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Speaker 3: into the courtrooms. If we'll do that, I believe we

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Speaker 3: can significantly impact our culture.

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Speaker 1: That's tremendous because we need this desperately today in the

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Speaker 1: United States, around the world. But the battle is so big,

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Speaker 1: it is the darkness is growing so dark. The cloud,

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Speaker 1: the dark cloud is getting so big, and we can't

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Speaker 1: just rely on our pastors. We all need to be out.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly I mean.

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Speaker 3: People are so frustrated that my pastor won't do this,

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Speaker 3: or my pastor's not that, or my church doesn't or

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Speaker 3: my denomination.

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Speaker 2: Stop being a victim. Let's go lead with our faith,

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Speaker 2: whatever sphere of If you will be faithful in the

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Speaker 2: sphere that God has given you, he will expand your

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Speaker 2: sphere of influence. I have lived that out.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was a pastor in a little country church

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Speaker 3: in a small town, with no reason to expect anything

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Speaker 3: much beyond that, and only the goodness and the grace

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Speaker 3: of God has changed that dynamic, and the messaging really

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Speaker 3: has never changed. I'm still encouraging people to read their Bibles,

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Speaker 3: get to know Jesus, be an advocate for the Jewish people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same story.

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Speaker 3: You've known me a long time, and God will do

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Speaker 3: that with any person that will be faithful in their

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Speaker 3: sphere of influence.

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Speaker 1: Well, what would be your advice to the pastors of America?

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Speaker 1: You understand the battle we're up against, You understand the

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Speaker 1: cultural shift that's taking place, the cultural battle, and you know, actually,

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Speaker 1: I want to change the question a little bit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we interact with a lot of people around the country

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them are so disappointed because their

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Speaker 1: church doesn't support Israel and their pastor doesn't quite get it.

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Speaker 1: And we share this over and over and over. What

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Speaker 1: advice would you give them? How should they approach their

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Speaker 1: pastor or their church, or how should they approach this situation?

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Speaker 1: They so desperately want a church that understands this and

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Speaker 1: supports Israel.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know me, I'll give you my direct answer.

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Speaker 3: Jesus said, if you follow a blind guide, you'll both

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Speaker 3: fall in a pit.

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Speaker 2: So he said, leave them.

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Speaker 3: If you're in a church that doesn't take biblical truth

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Speaker 3: and engage current culture with it, or they don't take

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Speaker 3: biblical truth and respond to the question of the Jewish

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Speaker 3: people in the nation of Israel, find a new church.

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Speaker 3: If your loyalty to your friends or your loyalty to

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Speaker 3: your denomination is greater than your loyalty to the truth.

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Speaker 3: I believe the biblical definition for that is idolatry. So

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Speaker 3: I know it's uncomfortable. There are no perfect churches. If

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Speaker 3: you find one, you can join one, including mine. On

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Speaker 3: the other hand, we have to engage the culture we

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Speaker 3: live in with the truth. You know, we're trained as

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Speaker 3: ministers to be experts about first century culture or tenth

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Speaker 3: century BCE culture, and I'm okay with that. But the

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Speaker 3: point of the training is to engage the twenty first

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Speaker 3: century culture with that truth. It's not being political. I

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Speaker 3: have a very little interest at all in being political.

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Speaker 3: But a discussion of marriage is not a political issue.

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Speaker 3: It's a biblical issue.

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Speaker 2: A discussion of the Jewish people is not a political issue.

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Speaker 2: It's a biblical issue.

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Speaker 3: A discussion of gender confusion, that's a biblical issue, not

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Speaker 3: a political issue. So the pastors have to lead into

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Speaker 3: our culture with biblical truth. And if your pastor won't

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Speaker 3: do that, don't be angry, don't lead a rebellion, just

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Speaker 3: go find a church that does it.

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Speaker 2: If you're going into a restaurant that doesn't serve good food,

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Speaker 2: don't pick at the restaurant, go find good food.

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Speaker 1: What a great analogy. And I think maybe on that note,

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Speaker 1: we we'll bring this to a close. But I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate that direct answer because we kind of struggle with

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Speaker 1: what to tell them, you know, how do you encourage them?

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Speaker 1: But I think the point is very very well taken well.

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Speaker 3: And the good news is with all the communications tools

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Speaker 3: now you can find good, solid biblical teaching. It's available

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Speaker 3: to us. You can, so we're not isolated any longer.

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Speaker 2: Hellelujah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, pastor, may the Lord bless you and

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Speaker 1: your church and your ministry and your broadcast ministry and

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Speaker 1: just prosper you and help you to reach many, many

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Speaker 1: more people because we know that you are preaching the

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Speaker 1: whole truth.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're very kind at the truth.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, and I pray your efforts with it

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Speaker 3: will be continue to flourish as well.

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Speaker 2: I received that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much for joining us today

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Speaker 1: and we will have in the show notes a link

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Speaker 1: to Pastor Alan Jackson's ministry and let's pray for him,

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Speaker 1: and let's pray for all of our pastors. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: God bless hey, just give me one more minute.

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Speaker 5: I want to offer you one of our free resources.

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Speaker 5: We have wonderful resources in our show notes and if

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Speaker 5: you go to our website at ICEJUSA dot org slash

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Speaker 5: show notes, you'll find links for a number of our

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Speaker 5: free offers. We have downloadables to help root you in scripture,

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Speaker 5: help you to understand the issues surrounding Israel and the

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Speaker 5: importance of be of Christian support for Israel, and don't forget.

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Speaker 5: Please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn and stay connected.

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Speaker 1: Thank you and God bless.

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Speaker 4: We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of

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Speaker 4: Zion with Susan Michael. Be sure to obsid Bank Tribe

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Speaker 4: to out of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube,

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Speaker 4: Pray dot Com, Salem Oneplace, Salem Life Audio. Out of

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Speaker 4: Zion with Susan Michael is a production of ic ejus A.

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Speaker 4: All rights reserved. This podcast is presented in partnership with

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Speaker 4: Life Audio to explore a wide range of faith centered

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Speaker 4: podcasts on prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more. Visit lifeaudio

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