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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 2: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 2: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks.

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Speaker 2: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 2: the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's

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Speaker 2: also a place of hope and healing. I know that

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Speaker 2: firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic, not

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Speaker 2: the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after decades

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Speaker 2: of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I found Jesus.

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Speaker 2: My prayer is that as I interview people just like

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Speaker 2: you and just like me, along with professionals in the

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Speaker 2: fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you will find

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Speaker 2: the piece that is available to you through Christ on

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Speaker 2: the other side of whatever you're going through and whatever

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Speaker 2: addiction that might be. Because let's face it, we're all

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Speaker 2: addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically vulnerable as

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Speaker 2: we explore what it looks like to be on this

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Speaker 2: journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: Have you lost hope like it may seem like a

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Speaker 2: trite or simple question. But I think when I look

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Speaker 2: back at my own addiction story, that a lot of

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Speaker 2: what I was trying to drink away was a hopelessness.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of lies that were whispered to

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Speaker 2: me by the devil. And you know, during that severe

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Speaker 2: slide period, I think one of the things that was

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Speaker 2: a constant companion and not a good one, was a

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Speaker 2: lack of hope. I don't see this getting better. I

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Speaker 2: don't see how I can fill in the blank. I

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Speaker 2: don't see how or why or whatnot. And today's guest

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Speaker 2: is going to bring us, I think an infusion of hope.

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Speaker 2: His name is Tanner Olsen. He is doesn't have an

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Speaker 2: addiction story, but he has written a book, and he

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Speaker 2: is one of the most gifted poets I have ever encountered.

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Speaker 2: And that book is called Getting Through what You're Going Through.

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Speaker 2: And I think what I so struggled with, and what

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Speaker 2: you may struggle with, is we don't know how to

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Speaker 2: get through what we're going through. And while hope and

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Speaker 2: that term is thrown around a lot these days, when

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Speaker 2: Tanner talks about hope, I think it has a weight

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Speaker 2: to it, knowing what he has gone through and he'll

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit about that, the depression, the anxiety,

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Speaker 2: the infertility, and so when he talks about clinging to hope,

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Speaker 2: it comes from a deep well that he is drawing from.

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Speaker 2: So I'm excited to introduce you to Tanner. He's going

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Speaker 2: to read us a poem that I think is so

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Speaker 2: relevant for so many of us and our stories, and

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Speaker 2: really just give us that infusion of hope that we

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Speaker 2: need just constantly.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think there are still feelings that I

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Speaker 2: struggle with. You know, Lord, I don't see how I'm

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Speaker 2: coming out of this, you know, in a good way.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how you're going to work through this.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how you're going to turn this around.

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Speaker 2: And so Tanner's going to help us on that code.

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Speaker 2: Just reminder, you can still get Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic,

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Speaker 2: the book that this podcast is based off of, four

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Speaker 2: thirty percent off and free shipping from the publisher. Just

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Speaker 2: go to Christian Alcoholic dot com Christian Alcoholic dot com

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Speaker 2: if you want to watch this podcast that is available

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Speaker 2: to subscribers at the Veritasdaily dot com. The Veritasdaily dot com.

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Speaker 2: Every single one of the podcast episodes you can watch

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Speaker 2: there ad free. So without further ado, let's talk with

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Speaker 2: the wonderful, the talented Tanner Olson about Hope. Tanner. Thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for joining the Confessions podcast. I'm excited

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Speaker 2: for this least of all, but important of all because

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Speaker 2: you are a fellow Packer fan. And my wife just

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Speaker 2: has a funny like she's gonna listen to this and

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Speaker 2: laugh because she says, I just have a knack for

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Speaker 2: finding fellow Packer fans and you're not even a fellow

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Speaker 2: Wisconsin I no.

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Speaker 3: But there's I mean, to be fair, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of Packer fans out there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it is.

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Speaker 3: I travel a lot, and on Sundays, especially like flying

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Speaker 3: all over the country, especially during the NFL season. It

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Speaker 3: is like a sea of green every time I go

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Speaker 3: to an airport, doesn't matter what airport it is, but

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Speaker 3: you always can find them. And it's comforting to know.

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Speaker 3: It's comforting to know that cheese has a good place

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Speaker 3: in this world.

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Speaker 2: Amen, But you do have a connection to Wisconsin that

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Speaker 2: I want to get into. And you posted something really

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Speaker 2: beautifully recently. I think it was maybe part of the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen trend that's going on right now, and and

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Speaker 2: so I want to get into that, but before we

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Speaker 2: kind of launch into your story in your new book

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Speaker 2: that I am excited about that I think is very relevant.

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Speaker 2: Even though you don't have a quote unquote addiction story,

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Speaker 2: I think the hope that you offer for those of

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Speaker 2: us who don't know how to sit with our thoughts

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Speaker 2: and feelings, which is me and what led me into addiction,

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Speaker 2: this book is really helpful for us. So, but before

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Speaker 2: we get into that, just give us an overview of

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Speaker 2: who you are, what you do, and where you are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just a guy who loves words and wants to

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Speaker 3: spread hope. If you ask me what I do for

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Speaker 3: a living, I tell you that I'm an author, a poet,

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Speaker 3: and a speaker. I travel around the country and share

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Speaker 3: poetry and stories and jokes at churches and schools and

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Speaker 3: conferences and all the things, and talk about what it

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Speaker 3: means to follow Jesus, to struggle with what it means

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Speaker 3: to be a human being clinging to hope. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've been doing this for like ten years now. I

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Speaker 3: got a couple of books out do when that's coming

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Speaker 3: out with Zondervin and I live in Nashville with my

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Speaker 3: wife Sarah, our son Judah, our dog, pancake, and yeah, dude,

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Speaker 3: just happy to be here and to be able to

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Speaker 3: chat with you about all the things.

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Speaker 2: And I think your previous book was a children's book, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had released a children's book iled All the

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Speaker 3: Things I Say to God. It's about a little girl

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Speaker 3: who begins to pray all by herself. And it was

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Speaker 3: so fun to write and to share. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's really where I've landed in this career as a writer,

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Speaker 3: is just offering things to the world that I think

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Speaker 3: are helpful and hopeful and can also bring up good conversations,

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Speaker 3: at least I hope so with the children's book, but

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Speaker 3: also with this new book, the book of poems and essays,

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Speaker 3: that good conversation would come out of it and people

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Speaker 3: would be would know that they're invited to lean in

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Speaker 3: just a little bit, a little bit deeper, a little

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Speaker 3: bit longer, you know.

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Speaker 2: So the book is called the new book is called

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Speaker 2: Getting Through what You're going Through? And I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about that, and I think you know what I

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Speaker 2: always pride this podcast on is that it is about

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Speaker 2: going deeper, right, radical vulnerability, And so to that end,

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Speaker 2: you posted this picture in twenty sixteen, you were working

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Speaker 2: at a children's youth camp right in Wisconsin, where you

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Speaker 2: lived for seven years. And like, if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 2: like Northwoods of Wisconsin, which is.

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Speaker 3: Liked it was, it was, it was up there, like

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Speaker 3: oh that was it was so that the camp is

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Speaker 3: called Camp Luther and Three Lakes, Wisconsin. Beautiful, beautiful camp,

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Speaker 3: beautiful place, wonderful people. I'm from Orlando, so it's a

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Speaker 3: very different like Wisconsin and Florida have pretty much nothing

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Speaker 3: in common. But I was, yeah, I was up there.

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Speaker 3: I was living alone in a duplex all by myself

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Speaker 3: in the woods. Like it was yeah, lonely, cold, was tiring,

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Speaker 3: freezing there was it was like the two like coldest

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Speaker 3: winters when I was up there too. So yeah, yeah, man,

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Speaker 3: it was. It was a wonderful job. It just wasn't

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Speaker 3: the right fit or place for me, and and I

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Speaker 3: wanted to be a writer.

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Speaker 2: And so take us, take us to that, because I

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Speaker 2: think in a sense it really sets up the book. Well,

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Speaker 2: is that you're struggling. You're like Lord, and I think

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Speaker 2: there's so many people who are gonna be listening to this.

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Speaker 2: Was like, Lord, you've put something on my heart. Maybe

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Speaker 2: You've dripped out some things for me, and you tell

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Speaker 2: this story in this Instagram post about you just getting

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Speaker 2: up every day early to write and yet it's not

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Speaker 2: going anywhere. Take us to that point in time and

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Speaker 2: describe what you were going through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was twenty twenty three, twenty four, twenty five,

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Speaker 3: like I just kind of out of college, finally realized

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Speaker 3: that I wanted to be a writer. And this was

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Speaker 3: like in the early years of Instagram and social media

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Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff. So you're seeing other

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Speaker 3: people who were writing books, who were living the life

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Speaker 3: that you want to live. Like, where I was was

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Speaker 3: not where I wanted to be. There was a lot

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Speaker 3: of wrestling, a lot of loneliness, a lot of depression,

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Speaker 3: a lot of like really honestly just trying to get

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Speaker 3: through what I was going through. And so I was

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Speaker 3: up there up in northern Wisconsin. I lived in Wisconsin

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Speaker 3: for seven years, in Northern Wisconsin for about about three

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Speaker 3: and towards the end of my time up there, I

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Speaker 3: just spent morning and evening walking in the woods the

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Speaker 3: trails of this camp, just praying and talking to God,

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Speaker 3: asking asking him to meet me where I was, but

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Speaker 3: to also bring me into something new, into something something different,

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Speaker 3: like I was ready for what was next. I needed

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Speaker 3: something new, something, a change of scenery, because who I

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Speaker 3: was was not who I wanted to be. Who I

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Speaker 3: was becoming was not the person that I wanted to become.

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Speaker 3: And so eventually I, you know, beginning of the year,

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Speaker 3: beginning of twenty sixteen, I packed up and I moved

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Speaker 3: to Nashville. And I moved to Nashville for two reasons.

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Speaker 3: One to see about a girl we are married now.

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Speaker 3: She was right next to me as I'm talking. And

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Speaker 3: then two it was it was to become just to

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Speaker 3: be a writer, like to give this whole writing thing

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Speaker 3: a shots. But I will forever be thankful for my time,

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Speaker 3: even the time that I would not wish on anybody,

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Speaker 3: the darkness, the loneliness, because it's shaped its shaped me.

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Speaker 3: It showed me what true hope really was. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know what what rock bottom feels like. You don't

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Speaker 3: want that, and yet it becomes this, this gift, this teacher.

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Speaker 1: If you let it.

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Speaker 2: I think there's people listening to this who maybe they

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Speaker 2: get that, but maybe they don't right or they don't

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Speaker 2: or they're like, yeah, it's great when you're ten years

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Speaker 2: removed from it. You don't understand, you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: or maybe you've forgotten what it feels like when you

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Speaker 2: don't you know, when you don't want to live anymore, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and when you're like I just I just want to

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Speaker 2: not wake up?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: And so where how? I guess my first question would

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Speaker 2: be when did you start gaining that perspective of like

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Speaker 2: I can be thankful for this?

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Speaker 1: And what did that take for you?

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Speaker 3: Took a lot of space and time. It wasn't for me.

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Speaker 3: It was not this this overnight flip a switch and

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Speaker 3: now I'm trusting and believing that everything is going to

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Speaker 3: be be great. It took a lot of doing the

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Speaker 3: same thing over and over again, developing this practice of

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Speaker 3: walking and talking with God and looking for the light,

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Speaker 3: like hope is something that you practice right like you

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Speaker 3: show up again and again, clinging to the promises that

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Speaker 3: that you're not forgotten, that God has not lost you

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Speaker 3: in all of this. And one, you know, something that

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Speaker 3: I've been telling myself for a long time now is

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Speaker 3: that something more is happening than I can see, you know,

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Speaker 3: like none of this is wasted, and yet we live

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Speaker 3: in this rough, broken world where it is full of

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Speaker 3: pain and addiction and darkness and loss and days where

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Speaker 3: you're just like, I don't want to do this anymore, man, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: especially when it is cold and dark and lonely and

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Speaker 3: you are in Wisconsin and thousands of miles away from

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Speaker 3: your family.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it was tough. So if Sindoy's listening is.

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Speaker 3: Like, like, that's exactly where I am, like, I can

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Speaker 3: say like I have been there before, and it can

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Speaker 3: get better, but change does have to happen, Like it

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Speaker 3: would not have gotten better if I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'll just ride this out like you have to. I

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Speaker 3: had to. I had to get off up, off the couch.

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Speaker 3: I had to go for walks. I had to spend

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Speaker 3: time in prayer. I had to choose time with God

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Speaker 3: over time on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had to.

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Speaker 3: You had to make all these these changes in these

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Speaker 3: ships and then and then believe that the depth of

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Speaker 3: the truth that you are, you are actually loved, You're

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Speaker 3: actually seen in this.

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Speaker 2: You talked about leaving Wisconsin going to Nashville and kind

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Speaker 2: of making that decision. What what what into that for you?

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, I just wonder if there's people

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Speaker 2: listening and on one hand, and this is where I

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Speaker 2: think wisdom and discernment comes in. Like, the Bible talks

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Speaker 2: about long suffering, right, and it talks about the Lord's

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Speaker 2: gonna work all things together for the good of those

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Speaker 2: who love him and call him to a purpose. And

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Speaker 2: there are some seasons in your life where you are

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Speaker 2: called to endure, right, and then there are seasons in

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Speaker 2: your life, you know. And the epilogue of my book,

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Speaker 2: I talk about Gideon and like where it's just like,

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Speaker 2: go in the strength you have, right. The Lord is

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Speaker 2: calling you to move, The Lord is calling you to

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Speaker 2: do something. He's calling you to take that step.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I just started a nonprofit right, never saw that coming.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, Lord, I'm not equipped to do this.

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Speaker 2: And He's like, just go in the strength you have, right.

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Speaker 2: And So how did you finally make the decision that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this this era of maybe long suffering is maybe not over,

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Speaker 2: but it's given way to this area or this era

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Speaker 2: of movement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think one of the big things for me

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Speaker 3: was the the conversations that I was having with my friends.

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Speaker 3: I mean, to have the importance of having people around

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Speaker 3: you who can speak hard truth into your life, it matters.

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Speaker 3: I remember my friend, my friend, my best friend, Trevor.

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Speaker 3: I told him, I was like, this is what I'm

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Speaker 3: going through, and he's like, you got to make a change,

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Speaker 3: and like, you don't. You don't want to. You don't

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Speaker 3: really want to hear that, because you know that means

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Speaker 3: that there's going to be a lot of work, a

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Speaker 3: lot more unknown, a lot of a lot of different,

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Speaker 3: a lot of new and all that. All of that

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Speaker 3: scared me. All of that brought on like a weight

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Speaker 3: of anxiety. And yet in my time walking in the

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Speaker 3: woods and praying, it just became more and more evident

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Speaker 3: and obvious that it was time for me to step

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Speaker 3: away from this and into something new. And that new

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Speaker 3: thing was to head to Nashville. There's a lot in

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Speaker 3: this in this life where we just can't explain it.

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Speaker 3: And yet something deep in us just like knows that

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Speaker 3: this is the poll, that this is the invitation to go.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, I listened to the voice of my friends,

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Speaker 3: trusting that they were still going to be with me

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Speaker 3: as I was facing the uncertainty. Yeah, so I moved

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Speaker 3: to Nashville, and my whole plan was that I was

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Speaker 3: going to be a writer. I was like, this is it, Like,

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Speaker 3: I'm out of the camp world. I'm going to just

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Speaker 3: I'm going to show up to Nashville. I was like,

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Speaker 3: my idea was I was going to get a job

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Speaker 3: at a coffee shop and I was going to write

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Speaker 3: in the mornings and the evenings and on my coffee break.

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Speaker 3: And then one day, like a literary agent would walk

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Speaker 3: in and just be like, you want to write a book,

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Speaker 3: don't you? And I would say yes, and they would

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Speaker 3: give me all of my dreams and it would unlock

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Speaker 3: and it'd be perfect. And it didn't happen that way, thankfully,

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Speaker 3: Like I ended up not getting a job at a

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Speaker 3: coffee shop. I struggled to write. I had to get

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Speaker 3: a job at Chick fil A. That was super hard.

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Speaker 3: I was twenty five, twenty six years old working at

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Speaker 3: a Chick fil A, wanting to be a writer, struggling

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Speaker 3: through that season. And yet it all matt like, none

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Speaker 3: of this is it's not wasted. And I know you

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Speaker 3: know that when you look at look back at your past,

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Speaker 3: like none of it is wasted. Like some of this

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Speaker 3: can be used. Most of this can be used for

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Speaker 3: good or to point people towards hope, like if if

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Speaker 3: if all of my dreams had just come true, Like

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Speaker 3: what does that do for my faith? What kind of

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Speaker 3: writer or man, or husband or father does that make me? Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 3: there's no there's no pushback, there's no there's no challenge,

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Speaker 3: there's no grit, and if you want to if you

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Speaker 3: want to keep going, you kind of need to go

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Speaker 3: through that.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the things that I think drips through

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Speaker 2: in your writing is that you've been there, right. And

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Speaker 2: I think in an era where experientialism not experiencing God.

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Speaker 2: I'm all about experiencing God and I talk about that

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Speaker 2: in my book and a Body in Christ. But experientialism

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Speaker 2: where you make the experience your God, right, not the

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Speaker 2: God behind the experience, you have this ability to just

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Speaker 2: with you know, you post these really short poems on substack,

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Speaker 2: and you know it's like it's like ten words, and man,

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Speaker 2: there's just so much depth and richness to them, and

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Speaker 2: you can say like you've been through it, You've been

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Speaker 2: through the refiner's fire. And it's what I appreciate about

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Speaker 2: you so much. I'm curious and and looks like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you have a poem there in for

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Speaker 2: any of the ye're gonna I was. I was.

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Speaker 3: Like, Oh, but.

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Speaker 2: Was there in your story like a moment where it

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Speaker 2: kind of turned and you're like, oh, wow, now this

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Speaker 2: is happening or was it slow or was it gradual?

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Speaker 2: What did that look like for you and your story

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Speaker 2: where you're working at chick fil a? Right, and we

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Speaker 2: all we all have our Chick fil A's right, Man,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest with you. Lord told me to

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Speaker 2: start this nonprofit. I'm like, what am I doing? I applied.

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Speaker 2: I haven't told anyone this. I applied to Home Depot, Walmart,

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Speaker 2: and Academy Sports and got rejected by all three you

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Speaker 2: want to talk about, like like just towards just towards

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Speaker 2: the end of last year, right, I'm like, all right, Lord,

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Speaker 2: you've called me to do this. I gotta do I

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Speaker 2: gotta do something in the meantime. Yeah, you know, and

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Speaker 2: people think, oh, you have a book come out, you're speaking,

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Speaker 2: You're doing all this stuff, like yeah, the money is

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Speaker 2: just pouring in, and I'm like you want to like,

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Speaker 2: don't don't write a book if you want to be rich,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, so then I'm rich. Yeah, right, So

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Speaker 2: I'm like oh, okay, lord, maybe this act of humility

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Speaker 2: and everything's going to change. And then like they all

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Speaker 2: reject me, like you're getting nothing against you that work

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Speaker 2: at Walmart. I wanted to be one of them, and

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Speaker 2: like Walmart rejects me, you know. So yeah, for me,

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Speaker 2: it's this gradual like how do you go from Chick

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Speaker 2: fil A to now you're going on a book tour,

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Speaker 2: you know tomorrow when this podcast releases? Was that just

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Speaker 2: a gradual thing? What did that look like? We'll be

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Speaker 2: right back after this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was small, slow, faithful steps forward back to the side.

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Speaker 3: There were moments in seasons of nothing happening at all.

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Speaker 3: It would be people asking, are you still trying to

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Speaker 3: be a writer? Are you still you still trying to

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Speaker 3: be a poet? You know that, those kind of conversations.

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Speaker 3: It was me working full time jobs. I worked at

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Speaker 3: Chick fil A and then I worked at a church

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Speaker 3: down in Texas for a couple of years. And really

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Speaker 3: it was while I was working in Texas, just north

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Speaker 3: of austin the pastor that I was working with. His

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Speaker 3: name is Barrett, And about two years into my time

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Speaker 3: down in Texas, I mean I was still writing and

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Speaker 3: putting stuff on Instagram and like trying to do speaking

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Speaker 3: events or share poetry at schools and conferences, and like

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Speaker 3: I would say yes to everything. I would pay my

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Speaker 3: way for everything, like I would.

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Speaker 1: I was going.

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Speaker 3: I was trying to do the best that I could

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Speaker 3: with what I had, and I was trying to give

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Speaker 3: this this dream everything and not like walk away and

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Speaker 3: think like, oh, there's nothing happening here. So my friend Barrett,

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Speaker 3: he sits me down and he's like, hey, you know

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Speaker 3: you can do this, right And I was like this

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Speaker 3: whole like say you can do this whole writing, poetry,

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Speaker 3: speaking thing. But he didn't just stop there. He was like,

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Speaker 3: you can do this in this and I will introduce

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Speaker 3: you to this person and we can do this, and

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Speaker 3: like you can do start doing this for our church

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Speaker 3: and start like he was preparing me for what was now.

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Speaker 1: And you need, like in.

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Speaker 3: All the great stories, you need a guide and zu

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Speaker 3: Berrett was this guide for me in this season, who

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Speaker 3: was like who believed in me when I didn't really

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Speaker 3: believe in myself. I was just kind of like drifting

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Speaker 3: and trying and trying to make sense of all of

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Speaker 3: this stuff. And he was like, oh, there's like a

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Speaker 3: way like I can see it from where I'm sitting,

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Speaker 3: and I know that you can't see it because you're

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Speaker 3: so close to it. And so it was all and

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Speaker 3: it was these small steps. I mean, I was waking up,

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Speaker 3: I was waking up at four am to work for

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Speaker 3: a couple of hours writing really bad stuff that would

405
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Speaker 3: eventually hopefully become somewhat decent, you know, trying to start podcasts,

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Speaker 3: trying to be on podcasts, trying to book events at

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Speaker 3: churches and schools, like I was doing it. I was trying.

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Speaker 3: I was just I was just trying. And I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's the thing that I share with those

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Speaker 3: who are in the season of like I want to

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Speaker 3: be somewhere where I'm not like I have this stream

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Speaker 3: of being a writer, Like what do I do so well?

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Speaker 3: You just, I hate to tell you, you just got

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Speaker 3: to show up every day. You got to start again

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00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 3: and again and again, and you got to push back

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Speaker 3: against the lies and the comparison and just be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is the thing that I was invited to do,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that I was created to do.

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Speaker 3: It's not going to go the way that you think

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Speaker 3: it's going to go. It's not going to look the

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Speaker 3: way that you want it to look, but it can

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Speaker 3: still be good.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up that word lies because I'm curious,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know there was a lot. You know,

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Speaker 2: I released my first book in twenty twenty one, becomes

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Speaker 2: the seller top one hundred on all of Amazon. Life

427
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Speaker 2: is great. But it wasn't right, like I had expectations

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Speaker 2: for that book. I you know, sure I got on

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Speaker 2: this bestseller list, but not this one. This interview, but

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Speaker 2: not this one, right, and the devil used that disappointment, yeah,

431
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Speaker 2: to really start whispering lies, you know, and things that

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Speaker 2: went back to childhood wounds. Right, I had never fully

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00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: given over to Jesus. And so I'm curious, what are

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00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: those lies that you were believing in your life.

435
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: It's a good question.

436
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 3: I love that we're talking about this so early in

437
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: the day, so I can think about it for the

438
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 3: rest of the day.

439
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: You know. It's the Uh it's called Confessions. That's the podcast.

440
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 3: I think, you know, one of the big things. And

441
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: it's still it is still this on a different on

442
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 3: a different level, in a different way. Is not not

443
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: being good enough?

444
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

445
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: Uh, I think I just mentioned this on Substack too,

446
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 3: with the launch of the book, Did you ever feel

447
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: like you were annoying the entire world?

448
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

449
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, book, I feel that I was afraid growing up.

450
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 3: I was so afraid to knock on my neighbor's doors

451
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: like my friends who lived there, to see if they

452
00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: wanted to come outside and play. I I hated the

453
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: feeling of like I was being annoying or intrusive. I

454
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: have a hard time believing that I am wanted or welcome,

455
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: and so all of that seems to come up again

456
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 3: and again and again. Anytime I step on stage, I

457
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: have to push it down. Anytime I hop on a podcast,

458
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: I gotta push it down, anytime I release a book,

459
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 3: like it's just like, hey, that's not true, you know.

460
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 3: And so to meet the lies with the truth, to

461
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: meet it with grace, to meet it with these beautiful

462
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 3: things like hope, right, and to say like, yeah, you

463
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 3: may not be the best writer in the world, but

464
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: your words can matter to some. And to step in

465
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: confidence like that's been one of my one of my prayers.

466
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 3: Every morning, I take our dog, Pancake on a walk

467
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 3: and I talk out loud to God. And one of

468
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 3: the things I've been praying, is like, can I just

469
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: help me to be confident when I step into new things?

470
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 3: Because I'm about to step into a lot of new things,

471
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: and I just want to show up like confident, not

472
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: not prideful, not without humility, but like this is who

473
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: God created me to be, Like I am saved by grace.

474
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: Life is hard and heavy and everything is not okay,

475
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: but one day everything will be. And oh and I

476
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 3: wrote a book and I hope you like it. You

477
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: don't have to buy it, but if you do, I

478
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 3: would love it, you know, like stuff like that. And

479
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: so it's like those lives, man, they just get, They

480
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 3: just get. They work their way into your whole like

481
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: creative process and then everything that comes out of that.

482
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 3: So I am constantly being like, I am constantly reminding

483
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 3: myself of the truth. And the truth is you're not

484
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: a burden. You are also not for everybody, but you're

485
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: not a burden.

486
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the Devil's crafty tools, right,

487
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: is to be so binary, to be so like like

488
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: he wants us to swing the pendulum one way, right,

489
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: And so it's it's it's a trap to think that

490
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: you are a burden, right, and that you have nothing.

491
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: But it's also a trap. And we see these and

492
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: we talked about this in on substock, like you also

493
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: see those people who are just all about promoting themselves, right,

494
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: and so then you're like, well, I can't do that, right,

495
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: and so the Devil's like yeah, so just just you know,

496
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: each each extreme is a trap, right, And and then

497
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: there's like this beautiful invitation that the Lord invites us

498
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: into your like, no, this is the sweet spot, right,

499
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: And you're like, well, so how do I know it's

500
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: the sweet spot? And he's just like, I'll let you know, Like,

501
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: how do I know I'm doing too much? I'll let

502
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: you know. How do you how do I know I'm

503
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: doing too I'll let you know, you know.

504
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: And it's the daily trust.

505
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, It's why.

506
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: I love the title of Eugene Peterson's book, A Long

507
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 2: Obedience in the same direction. It's that and it's just

508
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: ironically though, you know, I feel like that book if

509
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: you read it, it's about the psalms of a cent

510
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: and it's and it's it's you know, it's exegetical and whatnot.

511
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of like, Eugene, I wanted you to

512
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: write the book a long obedience in the same direction,

513
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: really about a long obedience in the same direction, like

514
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 2: I want, I want just a toba on just that

515
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: idea of the concept. So when when you decided to

516
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: write this book, where does Is this a collection of

517
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: new material? Is it a collection of stuff that you

518
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: have brought together? Tell us a little bit about the

519
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: structure in what we can expect in the book.

520
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so getting through what you're going through is a

521
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: book of poems, essays, notes, reflections, Like if you follow

522
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: my work online, it's it's very similar to that. You know,

523
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: it was written really from like twenty twenty to about

524
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. Is you know, it

525
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: takes a little while for a book to be released

526
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: into the world. And I've been having fun like reading

527
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: back through it and being like, oh, that poem's in here,

528
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: like this is okay, cool, Like that's great. It's been

529
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 3: you know, it's been so long and I was writing

530
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: it in this season. In the last five years have

531
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: just been a lot, Like you know, for the entire world,

532
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: for everyone who's been awake, it's been a lot. Not

533
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: only was there like the pandemic and then a lot

534
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: of like division and like wild stuff happening in the

535
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 3: United States and the world, but like even in our

536
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: own personal lives, like you know, during the pandemic, my

537
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 3: dad he almost died. My wife and I we were

538
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: diagnosed with unexplained infertility. We were walking through seasons of

539
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: like grief and frustration and lies, and then we were

540
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: also and then we God led us to adoption and

541
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: we now have a two year old son named Judah.

542
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 3: Like all these things just kind of like ups and

543
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: down inside and out. The last five years have just

544
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 3: felt like a lot and one thing that I've come

545
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: to learn again and again. It's just like it is

546
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: a lot to be a human being.

547
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: But we're all. We're all we're all.

548
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: Going through something or many somethings. And I know at

549
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: this moment, like right now, like I talk about a

550
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: little bit, like as a homeowner, like right now, I

551
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 3: know that in my house something is broken or about

552
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: to break, and my life kind of feels the same way,

553
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: you know, like something is broken or about to break

554
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: or about to happen, and like I know that I'm

555
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: gonna need hope to get through it all.

556
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: It's funny you say that when I talk about my

557
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: mental health and you know, being diagnosed with clinical anxiety

558
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: and OCD, and you know there's there's a conversation. I

559
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: think it's gotten better in the church about being on

560
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: medication and stuff. And I still take still take an

561
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: SSRI and and I tell people like I don't necessarily

562
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,239
Speaker 2: take that for what I'm experiencing now. I take it

563
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: for what I don't know is coming, because I may

564
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: feel great now, right, but I know that that's helped

565
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: me feel great now. I don't use it as a crutch.

566
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: I don't use it as a magic elixir, right, you know.

567
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: I tell people if my anxiety an as at an

568
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: eight or nine normally without my medication, you know, my

569
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: medication brings it down to a four, doesn't erase it.

570
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: And at a four, though I can use my prefrontal

571
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: cortex that the Lord has given me. I can meditate

572
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: on scripture, I can do those things. I can implement

573
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: those spiritual tools that get at the heart of the matter.

574
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: But when my brain is all misfiring, I can't do

575
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: that right, And so I use it for what's coming.

576
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: What are the unexpected things? The time my stepdad died

577
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty this time. My sister died in twenty eighteen,

578
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: my son, you know, being diagnosed with a tumor that

579
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: ended up being benign. Now, ironically that was a lot,

580
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: and I started to drink that away, like I did

581
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: return to those tools. But I think what's really helpful

582
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: for us to remember is that the Lord has given

583
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: us things. The Lord has given us tools like lament

584
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: and these things that like prepare us hopefully or give

585
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: us tools for not necessarily just what's here and now,

586
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: but for what's coming.

587
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: You know.

588
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. You know the book titled is you know,

589
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: getting through what You're going through? And is there kind

590
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: of like an overarching idea, thought, belief, truth that you

591
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: feel like undergirds like how do we get through you

592
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: know these things? How do we how do we get

593
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: through what we're going through that seems so insurmountable.

594
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: If you want to boil it all down to one word,

595
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: it's hope. How else do we get through today it

596
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: into tomorrow? For me, Like, the way that I like

597
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: to define hope is that hope is the full assurance

598
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: that God is with me in this and will get

599
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 3: me through this. Like I'm not forgotten I'm not alone.

600
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: This is a lot, but I'm not facing it by myself.

601
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: You know, one of the things I get to do is,

602
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: you know, speak at all these different places and get

603
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: to know people in you know what it's like when

604
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: you share your story and people will come and share

605
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: their story with you. And the number of heartbreaking stories

606
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: that I've heard of, loss of grief, of death, of uncertainty,

607
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: of unexpected things happening that just like wreck your family

608
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: and threaten your faith. Like it's a lot, and I

609
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: know I already said it, like it is just a

610
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: lot to be a human being. And yet hope it

611
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: remains throughout it all. And hope is not this like,

612
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: Hope is not rude. Hope is not like loud. It's

613
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 3: not trying to take up the whole entire table. It's

614
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: pull it's pulling up a chair. Yeah, it is fierce,

615
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: and it is it is ready to step into the

616
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 3: herd and the heavy and the darkness. But hope is

617
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: not like it's it's it's not trying to lie to you.

618
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: It's it's not a trick, like hope is not a trick.

619
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 3: And so for me, when I when the when the

620
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: heaviness comes, or when the lies arrive, or when life

621
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: becomes what I don't want it to be. That's not

622
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: like Hope's way of being like, all right, I'm out

623
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: of here. I will be back when everything is good.

624
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 3: That's not what like hope. Hope does not know how

625
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: to leave. It just stays and quietly whispers Everything's going

626
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: to be okay. I know everything isn't okay right now,

627
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: It's gonna be okay.

628
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: What's your encouragement to people who feel or who say, yeah,

629
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: I've lost hope, like like time and time again, I've

630
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: been disappointed time and time again. It's just, you know,

631
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: because I think in some ways I didn't know how

632
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: to sit with some of that hopelessness, that helplessness. I

633
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: didn't know how to sit with some of the you know,

634
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: I did not how to sit with my own thoughts.

635
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: I thought I did, and for a while I was

636
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: able to, and I had had all the strategies, and

637
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: then I hit the hardest time in my life, harder

638
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 2: than what I saw coming right, which even medication couldn't

639
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: help me with at the time, right, and and I

640
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: just was like, well, the easy thing to do alcohol

641
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: is effective and successful if it wasn't people like me

642
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: wouldn't turn to it, right, Yeah, So what do you

643
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: say to those people are like, yeah, Patanna, like I've

644
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: lost hope. I've lost hope. I don't know how to

645
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: get it back.

646
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 3: Well, first I would tell them that I hate it

647
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: for him, like I'm and then in the book, I

648
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 3: tell I have a short little writing like I told

649
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: a friend, you know what my wife and I were

650
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 3: going through, and I felt hopeless, and he just he

651
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: just he didn't Jeremiah twenty nine to eleven me. He

652
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: didn't just like pat me on the back. He didn't

653
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 3: try to tell me that, oh, I had friends who

654
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: were diagnosed with unexplained in fertility and then they got pregnant,

655
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: so it'll probably happen to you. He didn't tell me

656
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: it could be worse, which is never a good response

657
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: to anybody.

658
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: He told me, I hate.

659
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 3: This for you, And that's often one of the things

660
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: that I've been leading with when people tell me they're

661
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 3: feel hopeless or what's happened, and like I do and

662
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: I don't like bad things. I hate this for you.

663
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 3: And then at the right time, when possible, I would

664
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 3: tell them that hope has not left you. Like you,

665
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: You've not pushed it away, your situation, circumstance, feelings, have

666
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: not pushed it away, your guilt, your sin, whatever you

667
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: want to however you want to enter your story into

668
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: the like Hope does not know how to leave you,

669
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: walks with you, It guides you. And then it's talking

670
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: about some of the hard things that you and ipid

671
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 3: to do, of being honest about where we're at, asking

672
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: for help, slowing down, saying no to things that we

673
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: should say no to, and saying yes to the things

674
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 3: that are going to bring us back to life. And

675
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is with being with

676
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: other people and spending time in prayer.

677
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: I think you have a poem that you wanted to

678
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: many poems that is a little bit on those lines, right.

679
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

680
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 3: This is one of my faves from the book. It's

681
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: titled what I Mean Is, and it goes like this.

682
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: When I say everything will be okay, what I mean

683
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 3: is in the end, everything will be okay. Along the way,

684
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: it will not all be okay. You already know this.

685
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: There'll be sadness and death and failure. There'll be brokenness

686
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 3: and moments that feel beyond repair. There will be pain

687
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: and fear and unwanted changes to your story. There will

688
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: be seasons when you feel far from okay, in moments

689
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 3: when you wonder if the last line of this poem

690
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: is true. Of the little I know, one thing I

691
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 3: know for sure through it all, there is hope. And

692
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: hope invites us to lean in and hold fast to

693
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 3: a light that continues to last. It moves us to

694
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: love and dream and give and continue and stay for

695
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: another day. It leads us to pray and forgive and

696
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: cling to grace and believe the last line of this

697
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 3: poem is true. Everything will be okay, even if everything

698
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 3: isn't okay.

699
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: Today.

700
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: M my aunt works with Alzheimer's and Dementia Patience for

701
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: the county that she lives in, Wisconsin, And I remember

702
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: her talking to me and walking me through a little

703
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: bit about what she does. And she said one of,

704
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: if not the most effective things that she says to

705
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: families of people who have someone that is diagnosed with

706
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's or dementia, which is really hard, right, Yeah, is

707
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: there's a line that she uses and an idea that

708
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: she communicates and it is there is another side. There

709
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 2: is another side to this. You will get through this

710
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: and there is another side. And I just can't tell

711
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: you how impactful that's been for me, right, because I

712
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: think when we're going through this stuff, we don't see

713
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: the other side, and we need people to remind us.

714
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: We need scripture to remind us, right, I mean even

715
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: like literally how many times Jesus talks about going to

716
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: the other side, right, And to the point of your

717
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: beautiful poem, even it's like from going from one side

718
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 2: to the other, there's still storms in the middle, right,

719
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: like Jesus had to calm those storms. And so it's

720
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: not just this, it's not this like Alaskan seven day

721
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: beautiful cruise, right, sounds nice. Yeah, it's like we might

722
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: die Welcome to the Wilderness, yeah, right. And so I

723
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 2: love that poem because it reminds me there is another side.

724
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's another side. There is more And no, it's

725
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 3: not going to go the way that you wanted to go,

726
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: and it's going to be hard and it's going to

727
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: be rough, and yet the invitation is to continue.

728
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. How do you think we can best sit

729
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: with people going through tough times? You know, I think

730
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: you talked about your friend there, and that really stood

731
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: out to me right, I think so many times and

732
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: in my life there's been that person who comes with

733
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: a trite phrase, a trite verse, the Jeremiah twenty nine

734
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: to eleven's the you know, cast all your cares upon him,

735
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: free cares about you, do not be anxious about anything.

736
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, you know, for a long time, that really

737
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 2: turned me off to those verses. But there is a deep,

738
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: rich depth to those verses that's.

739
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: Important, definitely.

740
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: But because they were thrown out as trite phrases and

741
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: ways that people didn't they didn't they just didn't want

742
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: to enter in with me. So then they just through that.

743
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: How do we sit with people going through difficulty? We'll

744
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: be right back after this.

745
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: I think sitting with them is good because when you're

746
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: sitting with them, you're hopefully not trying to fix them.

747
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: This is not like a lot of this stuff is

748
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: not something that can be fixed. It can be loved,

749
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: can be cared for, but like I gotta fix the

750
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: to fix it right now? What question can you ask them?

751
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: You know?

752
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 3: I love the question of like how are you doing really?

753
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 3: And like let me like I want to know the answer,

754
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: And then to show up again and again it's you

755
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 3: know if if you could, what do you want this

756
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: to look like? How do you see this going? I

757
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 3: think a lot of times, I mean I talked about

758
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 3: this a little bit earlier, like I felt I would

759
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: feel like a burden and to remind people that they

760
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 3: are not not even close And so tell me the

761
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: thing that you're going through, Tell me what you want

762
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: this to look like. On the other side, tell me

763
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: the things that like, what are the things that you're

764
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: afraid of and hopeful for? And then to come back

765
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: again and again. I think one of the big things

766
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 3: is we don't want to tell people something because we'll

767
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: scare them away or they'll see us differently.

768
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: And I think.

769
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 3: What a beautiful thing it is to let other people

770
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: see you differently.

771
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: Hmmm.

772
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: As you're saying that, I think the question that really

773
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: popped in my head that can be powerful and important.

774
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: You know.

775
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: Again, My ultimate addiction wasn't to alcohol. My addiction was

776
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: to escapism, right Like, I just didn't know how during

777
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 2: that really hard time to sit with myself and I

778
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: wonder if we would ask people more not why not not?

779
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this? You know, which is not

780
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: really you're not really wanting to know why, right? Why

781
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: do you keep doing this? Right? But it's what are

782
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: you scared of?

783
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: Mm?

784
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: Like, what is what is the fear that's underlying and

785
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: driving you to do the things you don't want to do,

786
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: to say the things you don't want to say, to

787
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: believe the things you don't really want to believe. Like,

788
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 2: what are you scared of? You know? Even even even

789
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: in what in what you're talking about? I just wonder,

790
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: is it fear of rejection? You know when you're like,

791
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: I don't want to bother anyone, Well, if you're not,

792
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to bother people because then

793
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: they can't reject me, you know, And that's that's part

794
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: of what I've struggled with in the past. Right, I

795
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: don't want to be rejected. I've been rejected. I've been

796
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: rejected from a very young age. And so if you

797
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: don't open up to people, if you don't put yourself

798
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: out there, you can't be rejected. You know.

799
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: It's also really hard and you and I probably both

800
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: know this. It's really hard to grow too m or

801
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: to experience a deeper level or understanding of love. Yeah,

802
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: that's a good question, man, What are you scared of?

803
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

804
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: What are you scared of? Not and not not in

805
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: a how you asked that question, what are you scared of?

806
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: It varies is very different than yeah, man, like what

807
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 2: what are you? Let's walk through all of this together,

808
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: because I know you're scared of it. We're all scared

809
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: of something, especially when you feel like you're at rock

810
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: bottom or life is not the way that you want

811
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: it to be, and so what do you what is

812
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: it that you're scared of? And we let's play it

813
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 2: out together. I think having someone to process life with

814
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: and then someone who can pray for you or with you,

815
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: or just kind of sit there and hold that hold

816
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: whatever it is that you're handing them, to create a

817
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: safe in space, a space just to talk like that's

818
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: a gift or like the best gift that you can

819
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: give somebody is your time and attention. And so to

820
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: be able to do that in a.

821
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: Season of fear, uncertainty, when you're scared, like, what a gift?

822
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 3: And you get to be a gift for other people

823
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 3: because there are people who are listening to this podcast

824
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,959
Speaker 3: who are like I can help or I need help?

825
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah right, and most of us are probably both.

826
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: And I think maybe if you're listening to this and

827
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't have that person. I think one

828
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: of the things that I want to encourage you is

829
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 2: a that's why it's important to press into biblical community.

830
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: And you say, well, I am, and I still don't

831
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: have anyone. I get it, right, Yeah, the family of

832
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: God is not perfect. But also I want to just

833
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: encourage people like that's when I first started coming out

834
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: of that rock bottom moment. I it's not that I

835
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: didn't have anyone, it's that I didn't feel comfortable, right, yeah,

836
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: And and part of that was me. It's not it's

837
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: not that they were bad friends. It's it's and so

838
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: guess what. I went to a Christian therapist and I

839
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: paid her one hundred and fifty dollars a week to

840
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: be that person, you know, and it's like and and

841
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: I just love. At one point she said, you know, John,

842
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: I want to be the person that you can process

843
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: these things and these thoughts with. You know. It's like great,

844
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: you know, and do I now? Do I have that

845
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 2: in other friendships since then? And yes?

846
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: Right?

847
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: But part of I think a lot of people think

848
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: that going to therapy is about getting advice. And I

849
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: think some of the worst therapists are the ones that

850
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: try to give you advice. They'd let you process, right,

851
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 2: they lead you know, lead you to truth by being

852
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 2: helped you. They help you see what you're so close to, right,

853
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 2: pull it back a little bit, give you some space

854
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 2: to breathe and to really be like, Okay, here's what

855
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 2: you're going through, yeah, or this is what you went through, Yeah,

856
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: this is the thing that is beneath the thing, beneath

857
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: the thing, Yes, and invite Jesus into that, you know, yeah.

858
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

859
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: As we start to wrap up here, I think, what

860
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: is you know you talked about you talked about hope

861
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: and maybe that's the answer here, But you know, what

862
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: is that one thing you're hoping that people take from

863
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: this collection of poems and essays.

864
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 3: That that they're not forgotten or alone, that good is,

865
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: that good is on the way. But truly that they

866
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 3: would they would find a little bit of peace in

867
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: the words, be comforted by the things that I've written

868
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: and shared and know that hope is real and that

869
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: they can get through what they're going through. And yeah,

870
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 3: life is not going to go the way that you

871
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: think it's going to go, or the plan is not

872
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 3: going to go to plan and yet you were loved

873
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 3: by God and you were sent by him.

874
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: I want to encourage you, if you're listening to this.

875
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 2: You know, one of the ways and reasons I think

876
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 2: I said this earlier that I got in trouble, right,

877
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: is that I turned to cheap forms of escapism. And

878
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: what I love about this book and what I love

879
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: about your work is it is a costly form of escapism.

880
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is that it forces

881
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: us to slow down, It forces us to think, It

882
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: forces us to sit with fill in the blank. And

883
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: I want to encourage you, if you're listening to this,

884
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: to pick up Tanner's book and like slow down, right,

885
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: don't reach for the cheap, easy fix, right, lament struggle,

886
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 2: think those type of things which may be hard in

887
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: this short term but have so many effects, so many

888
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: good effects in the long term.

889
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's inviting you to go to go through it. Yes,

890
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 3: you know I talked about like don't don't, don't don't

891
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: try to skip to the good part.

892
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: You gotta go, You gotta go through.

893
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: It, right, screw that Instagram right, Like, yeah, no, not

894
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: can you skip to the good part? Right? Like I

895
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: think I think and I have. I've been wanting to

896
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: write this post and I haven't yet. But really, for me,

897
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,479
Speaker 2: I think I have this realization a couple months back

898
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: that addiction for me was just a perpetual adolescence. You

899
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: think about it, like when we're younger, like we just

900
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 2: we don't want to have anything uncomfortable, right, even from

901
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 2: the before we can talk. Right, Yeah, I'm feeling hungry,

902
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: so I'm going to scream out I don't want that, right,

903
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to be hungry, you know, my seven

904
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: year old, right, my ten year or old even like

905
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: when they encounter something difficult that they don't want, right,

906
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: it's I want to avoid that, right, And it's it's

907
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: and and addiction for like, adulthood is learning to sit

908
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: with the uncomfortable things and not just trying to just

909
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: like be like you know, uh uh whack a mole

910
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: where you're just trying to whack away the uncomfortableness, right, yep.

911
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: And I think your book is an invitation to that

912
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 2: and and and a partner in that. So thank you

913
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: for writing it. Where can people go to learn more

914
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: about you? To pick up the book to follow what

915
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: you're doing?

916
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, on my website is written to speak dot com.

917
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: On Instagram, you just type in Tanner Olsen or on

918
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 3: substack and then you can get the book on Amazon

919
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 3: or maybe at a local bookstore.

920
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: Again.

921
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 3: The book is titled getting Through What You're going Through.

922
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 3: It is an orange book with a orange on the cover.

923
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 3: It is very orange, and I really do hope that

924
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 3: it brings you some hope or if you know somebody

925
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: who's just going through a hard time, Like I think

926
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 3: this is a book that is more than okay to

927
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 3: hand them.

928
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: Explain the cover real quick, because you're right, it's very orange,

929
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: it's squeezed. There's juice coming out of the orange. Explain

930
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: the cover.

931
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a Florida boy, right, so I grew in Florida.

932
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: So oranges obviously. But there's a couple of writings and

933
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 3: poems in there. There's a story about how my mom

934
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 3: and I used to pick oranges and make orange juice,

935
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 3: so there's something in there about that. And then there's

936
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 3: a poem titled Squeeze Me Out. And I feel like

937
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: a lot of like when you feel like you're you're

938
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: going through what you're when you're getting through what you're

939
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: going through, you feel like you're being squeezed out, but

940
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: it is like this, you are being squeezed like something.

941
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: Good is happening.

942
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 3: It hurts, and yet something good is happening, and you

943
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 3: were left with something sweet and better than when you began.

944
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: And so there's just there's just a lot of like

945
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: imagery in my head that that pops up when I

946
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 3: think about getting through what you're going through and realizing

947
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 3: and seeing that all of this is a gift. And

948
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 3: so times it takes years to see that.

949
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. Yes, thank you, Tanner Olsen,

950
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: my friend, thank you for joining us. I thinks I

951
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 2: can't wait to see what this book does. I can't

952
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: wait to see what you do. Tanner's going on tour,

953
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: and if he is in your area, please, I mean,

954
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: go see him. I always think it's really important to hear,

955
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 2: like even when you read that poem, right, I think

956
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: I may have read that differently, and in some ways

957
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 2: that's great, but I think to hear how the author intended,

958
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: every pause, every inflection. And so when Tanner's on tour

959
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 2: and he reads some of these poems, I think it'd

960
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: be great to see him. So check him out. Thank

961
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: you so much. Tanner.

962
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, appreciate you.

963
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 2: Here's the question that that popped up to me after

964
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: that interview. It's this, do you have the faith to

965
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: sit with yourself? Do you have the faith sit with

966
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: your own thoughts? Do you have the faith to sit

967
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: through what you're going through? You know? And I think

968
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 2: like I grew up in a tradition that was all

969
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: about if you have faith as a muster, see you

970
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 2: can move mountains, which, by the way, just a little

971
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: like this. One of the things I learned in seminary

972
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: that was like a phrase that was like that was

973
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: like an idiom back in the day, right, So like

974
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: we take that as so many people take that as

975
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: very literal and like it was a you know, don't

976
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: put the carpet before the horse, don't you know? It

977
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: was one of those type of sayings. Right, So we

978
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: want to be spurred on to have the faith that

979
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: can move mountains. But I just wonder if we really

980
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: focused on having the faith to sit with ourselves. I

981
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 2: know that I didn't. My faith was not one that

982
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: could trust God to drowned out the noise and the lies,

983
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: and so I turned to alcohol to drownd out the

984
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: noise and the lies. And so I just want to

985
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: encourage you pick up Tanner's book because I really do,

986
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 2: like I said at the end there, I think it

987
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 2: will encourage you to have a means of sitting with yourself,

988
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: a means of thinking through, a means of combating the

989
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: lies that isn't cheap, that is costly. And yet you

990
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 2: know when Dietrich Bonhoeffer talks about costly grace, like the

991
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 2: best things cost us something, I will not sacrifice that

992
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: which costs me nothing, David said. And I think so

993
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 2: many times we're looking for a cheap way, we're looking

994
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 2: for shortcuts, and what the Lord is inviting us into

995
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: is to sit and be with him and to give

996
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 2: something up right. And so I think Tanner's book definitely

997
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 2: will help us do that. So pick it up. Let

998
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: me know what you think. If there's one thing in

999
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 2: this podcast that encouraged you, I just asked that you

1000
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 2: would send it to someone. I'm not asking you to like, share, subscribe,

1001
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: you can do all those things if you want. What

1002
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: I'm asking you to do is to share it with

1003
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 2: one person. And I just I want to continue to

1004
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,439
Speaker 2: spread the message of hope that Tanner talks about love

1005
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: you all. Thank you to our partner Life Audio lifeaudio

1006
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 2: dot com you can listen to some other great podcasts.

1007
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 2: We will see you here next week