1 00:00:08,257 --> 00:00:13,856 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Join us in celebrating an incredible milestone as 2 00:00:13,896 --> 00:00:17,657 Speaker 1: the beloved Jesus Calling brand reaches fifty million lives impacted. 3 00:00:18,137 --> 00:00:21,057 Speaker 1: As we honor the legacy of author Sarah Young, we 4 00:00:21,097 --> 00:00:26,816 Speaker 1: reflect on the stories from celebrities, pastors, authors, actors, singers, athletes, scholars, 5 00:00:26,857 --> 00:00:30,377 Speaker 1: and everyday people who have been inspired by her devotional writings. 6 00:00:30,617 --> 00:00:32,857 Speaker 1: To join in the celebration and to hear some of 7 00:00:32,857 --> 00:00:35,336 Speaker 1: the stories of people whose faith journeys have been impacted 8 00:00:35,337 --> 00:00:37,776 Speaker 1: by all the writings of Sarah Young, head over to 9 00:00:37,897 --> 00:00:41,976 Speaker 1: Jesus Calling dot com. 10 00:00:42,336 --> 00:00:44,897 Speaker 2: The gospel is not just this one time thing. And 11 00:00:44,897 --> 00:00:48,016 Speaker 2: that's why I say, like salvation is a lifeline, but 12 00:00:48,057 --> 00:00:52,416 Speaker 2: sanctification is a lifetime right. And so I think the 13 00:00:52,617 --> 00:00:55,497 Speaker 2: hope that I want to give people is the gospel. 14 00:00:55,777 --> 00:00:59,337 Speaker 2: The good News of Jesus is for you, over and 15 00:00:59,697 --> 00:01:03,297 Speaker 2: over and over again, day after day after day, minute 16 00:01:03,337 --> 00:01:03,977 Speaker 2: by minute. 17 00:01:04,177 --> 00:01:04,377 Speaker 3: Right. 18 00:01:04,857 --> 00:01:07,497 Speaker 2: It's like we talk about come as you are, but 19 00:01:07,617 --> 00:01:09,697 Speaker 2: it's also stay as you become. 20 00:01:11,377 --> 00:01:14,497 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week we welcome 21 00:01:14,537 --> 00:01:18,937 Speaker 1: writer Jonathan M. Sidel, who transparently shares to struggle with alcoholism. 22 00:01:19,217 --> 00:01:21,577 Speaker 1: Jonathan opens up about how he turned to alcohol as 23 00:01:21,617 --> 00:01:24,257 Speaker 1: a solution to his problems, and the breaking point moment 24 00:01:24,297 --> 00:01:27,697 Speaker 1: when he realized something needed to change, and the real, raw, 25 00:01:27,777 --> 00:01:31,417 Speaker 1: honest circumstances that led him to healing. Later in the episode, 26 00:01:31,457 --> 00:01:34,857 Speaker 1: we'll hear from author Yanna Jenny Connor. She shares her 27 00:01:34,857 --> 00:01:37,417 Speaker 1: personal experience of learning to forgive deep wounds from her 28 00:01:37,457 --> 00:01:41,897 Speaker 1: family and friendships, highlighting the crucial difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. 29 00:01:42,377 --> 00:01:45,417 Speaker 1: She also reveals the daily spiritual practices that sustain her 30 00:01:45,417 --> 00:01:49,217 Speaker 1: heart in the midst of ongoing pain. Let's begin with 31 00:01:49,337 --> 00:01:52,337 Speaker 1: Jonathan's story. 32 00:01:57,057 --> 00:01:59,577 Speaker 2: I'm the Christian that became an alcoholic, not the other 33 00:01:59,577 --> 00:02:03,617 Speaker 2: way around. So it wasn't like I didn't follow Jesus 34 00:02:03,817 --> 00:02:06,137 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden met Jesus and like, 35 00:02:06,497 --> 00:02:09,337 Speaker 2: oh my gosh. Right, And I think what's unique about 36 00:02:09,337 --> 00:02:11,097 Speaker 2: my story, and what I think is actually a lot 37 00:02:11,097 --> 00:02:13,177 Speaker 2: of people's stories but we don't talk about enough, is 38 00:02:13,217 --> 00:02:20,257 Speaker 2: that as Christians we can still and do fall into sin. Right. 39 00:02:24,057 --> 00:02:27,377 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the shame that comes with 40 00:02:27,937 --> 00:02:31,657 Speaker 2: being a Christian who falls. I didn't want to go 41 00:02:31,697 --> 00:02:35,337 Speaker 2: public with it because I was the best selling Christian author, right, 42 00:02:35,497 --> 00:02:38,057 Speaker 2: and so not out of pride, like, oh, I have 43 00:02:38,137 --> 00:02:41,057 Speaker 2: this image to uphold, but just out of a lot 44 00:02:41,057 --> 00:02:47,017 Speaker 2: of in the sense embarrassment and grief. Really, I finally 45 00:02:47,057 --> 00:02:49,337 Speaker 2: got to the point where I was griefed, truly a 46 00:02:49,377 --> 00:02:52,017 Speaker 2: godly grief with my actions. You know. It's the difference 47 00:02:52,017 --> 00:02:55,737 Speaker 2: between Judas and Peter. And I finally got to that 48 00:02:55,777 --> 00:03:00,897 Speaker 2: Peter aspect, and I said, I will help people that 49 00:03:00,937 --> 00:03:04,097 Speaker 2: you bring into my life. But other than that, I 50 00:03:04,257 --> 00:03:07,497 Speaker 2: just I've got a lot to lose. And God just 51 00:03:07,617 --> 00:03:10,097 Speaker 2: kept working on my heart and he kept saying like, 52 00:03:10,857 --> 00:03:13,977 Speaker 2: this isn't your story, this is my story. And I 53 00:03:14,017 --> 00:03:15,977 Speaker 2: finally got to the point where the Lord was like, John, 54 00:03:16,097 --> 00:03:18,737 Speaker 2: if there's not the chance of it costing you something, 55 00:03:18,777 --> 00:03:21,817 Speaker 2: it's not a sacrifice. Like the definition of sacrifice is 56 00:03:21,817 --> 00:03:26,177 Speaker 2: that it has to cost you something. And I was like, well, okay, 57 00:03:26,537 --> 00:03:28,497 Speaker 2: here we go, and so here we are. I decided, 58 00:03:28,537 --> 00:03:30,297 Speaker 2: all right, Lord, I'm just gonna put this in your hands. 59 00:03:30,337 --> 00:03:32,257 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell my story. I know there's people like 60 00:03:32,337 --> 00:03:36,457 Speaker 2: me out there, and so here I am. I'm not 61 00:03:36,497 --> 00:03:39,817 Speaker 2: the first one to say this, but drinking wasn't my problem. 62 00:03:40,057 --> 00:03:43,177 Speaker 2: Drinking was the solution to my problems, right, you know, 63 00:03:43,217 --> 00:03:45,217 Speaker 2: you get in an argument with your wife and you 64 00:03:45,257 --> 00:03:47,417 Speaker 2: don't know why, but your body starts going into fight 65 00:03:47,457 --> 00:03:51,617 Speaker 2: or flight mode. Well, that's because your subconscious understands that's 66 00:03:51,617 --> 00:03:54,217 Speaker 2: how your stepdad used to talk to you, right, or 67 00:03:54,297 --> 00:03:57,937 Speaker 2: that's the word that he said. And so it's just 68 00:03:58,017 --> 00:04:02,497 Speaker 2: easier to drink those aspects away. It's cheaper, it's quicker, 69 00:04:03,177 --> 00:04:05,137 Speaker 2: and it's a slow fade by the way, you know, 70 00:04:05,177 --> 00:04:07,897 Speaker 2: it's not like I woke up one day and said, 71 00:04:08,017 --> 00:04:10,017 Speaker 2: I'm just going to drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. Right. 72 00:04:10,257 --> 00:04:12,937 Speaker 2: One turns into two, turns into three, turns into five, 73 00:04:13,017 --> 00:04:14,977 Speaker 2: and you're building up a tolerance, and then the physical 74 00:04:14,977 --> 00:04:18,657 Speaker 2: aspect takes over. I think we think in order to 75 00:04:18,657 --> 00:04:20,697 Speaker 2: have a problem with something, it has to look a 76 00:04:20,736 --> 00:04:24,337 Speaker 2: certain way, right, And that actually kept me drinking a 77 00:04:24,337 --> 00:04:27,097 Speaker 2: lot longer and in an unhealthy relationship a lot longer, 78 00:04:27,097 --> 00:04:29,496 Speaker 2: because I said, well, I'm not doing this. I don't 79 00:04:29,496 --> 00:04:34,217 Speaker 2: look like this right. And yet you know, especially if 80 00:04:34,257 --> 00:04:38,376 Speaker 2: you look at the Bible, anything that occupies an unhealthy 81 00:04:38,416 --> 00:04:41,657 Speaker 2: place in our life is disordered. Right. But even just 82 00:04:41,777 --> 00:04:45,296 Speaker 2: in science and psychology, right, anything that you elevate to 83 00:04:45,337 --> 00:04:49,616 Speaker 2: the primary position in your life that's unhealthy, drinking, food, sex, kids, wife, 84 00:04:50,217 --> 00:04:55,457 Speaker 2: it's unhealthy, right, And so that process kind of starts, 85 00:04:55,736 --> 00:04:58,456 Speaker 2: and I'm building up. I'm building up. I'm kind of 86 00:04:58,457 --> 00:05:01,017 Speaker 2: going back and forth. I'm quitting, I'm going back, I'm quitting. 87 00:05:01,017 --> 00:05:03,137 Speaker 2: I'm going back. If you can quit, you don't have 88 00:05:03,176 --> 00:05:05,936 Speaker 2: a problem. Right then, I hit the hor ardest part 89 00:05:05,976 --> 00:05:07,697 Speaker 2: of my life in the fall of twenty twenty one, 90 00:05:07,976 --> 00:05:09,497 Speaker 2: and the guy who wrote the book on faith and 91 00:05:09,577 --> 00:05:12,296 Speaker 2: mental health starts slipping into a depression again. I had 92 00:05:12,337 --> 00:05:14,736 Speaker 2: my business at the time, I lost my biggest client, 93 00:05:14,856 --> 00:05:17,337 Speaker 2: my friends, starts slipping into a depression, my son gets 94 00:05:17,376 --> 00:05:20,736 Speaker 2: a tumor in his shin, and I just continue to 95 00:05:20,856 --> 00:05:23,496 Speaker 2: increase my drinking until May twenty twenty three. I wake 96 00:05:23,577 --> 00:05:26,537 Speaker 2: up and literally my wife and I are on vacation. 97 00:05:27,416 --> 00:05:30,616 Speaker 2: I have a night where we kind of decide to 98 00:05:30,616 --> 00:05:33,176 Speaker 2: have a night in on an anniversary trip. My wife says, 99 00:05:33,176 --> 00:05:36,017 Speaker 2: don't get drunk. I say, I'm not going to get drunk, 100 00:05:36,537 --> 00:05:38,657 Speaker 2: and she's starting to notice at this point right that 101 00:05:38,736 --> 00:05:41,297 Speaker 2: the drinking has picked up. And by the end of 102 00:05:41,337 --> 00:05:46,296 Speaker 2: the night, I'm so drunk that I find myself alone 103 00:05:46,577 --> 00:05:49,217 Speaker 2: on the beach in Miami at about twelve one in 104 00:05:49,257 --> 00:05:53,176 Speaker 2: the morning, and I'm waiting in the ocean going to 105 00:05:53,217 --> 00:05:55,616 Speaker 2: the bathroom, and it's coming out of both ends, and 106 00:05:55,657 --> 00:05:58,856 Speaker 2: I'm like, what has my life become? Because I truly 107 00:05:58,976 --> 00:06:02,217 Speaker 2: set out that night not to get drunk. And what 108 00:06:02,296 --> 00:06:05,337 Speaker 2: I realized in that moment was the only drink I 109 00:06:05,337 --> 00:06:07,777 Speaker 2: can say no to. It's the first one. That's the 110 00:06:07,816 --> 00:06:11,376 Speaker 2: moment I realize, oh my gosh, like something needs to change, 111 00:06:11,736 --> 00:06:13,456 Speaker 2: and you would think so. Then I wake up the 112 00:06:13,457 --> 00:06:16,337 Speaker 2: next morning and I tell my wife and like, everything's great. No. 113 00:06:16,416 --> 00:06:18,136 Speaker 2: I wake up the next morning. My wife asked me 114 00:06:18,176 --> 00:06:20,057 Speaker 2: three times if I got drunk, and I lie, and 115 00:06:20,097 --> 00:06:22,097 Speaker 2: I call it my Peter moment. But by the end 116 00:06:22,097 --> 00:06:24,976 Speaker 2: of that night, I finally I go to her and 117 00:06:25,017 --> 00:06:27,176 Speaker 2: I say, hey, bab I need to be honest with you. 118 00:06:27,217 --> 00:06:28,856 Speaker 2: I did get drunk last night, and she goes, you 119 00:06:28,897 --> 00:06:31,737 Speaker 2: know what, I knew you did, And she's breaking down 120 00:06:31,816 --> 00:06:34,816 Speaker 2: at this point and says, but I wanted you to 121 00:06:34,856 --> 00:06:37,416 Speaker 2: tell me the truth and you didn't. And she's like, 122 00:06:37,457 --> 00:06:39,816 Speaker 2: I don't think you realize what that does to a woman. 123 00:06:40,856 --> 00:06:44,417 Speaker 2: And she's like, you lied so easily, what else might 124 00:06:44,457 --> 00:06:48,017 Speaker 2: you be lying about? And so I start making all 125 00:06:48,017 --> 00:06:49,856 Speaker 2: the promises I'm not going to drink again, I'm going 126 00:06:49,936 --> 00:06:51,736 Speaker 2: to get help, and she looks at me and she says, John, 127 00:06:52,936 --> 00:06:56,937 Speaker 2: I don't want you to not drink again, Like, that's 128 00:06:56,976 --> 00:07:00,856 Speaker 2: not my goal. If you never drink again, fine, but 129 00:07:01,017 --> 00:07:04,537 Speaker 2: you have to get to the heart of why you're drinking. 130 00:07:05,537 --> 00:07:07,617 Speaker 2: And I'm kind of like, can we just go back 131 00:07:07,657 --> 00:07:10,417 Speaker 2: to like the not drinking part where I promise not 132 00:07:10,537 --> 00:07:12,537 Speaker 2: to drink, because that would be a lot easier because 133 00:07:12,537 --> 00:07:14,737 Speaker 2: I didn't want to dig into the things in my past. 134 00:07:14,897 --> 00:07:16,696 Speaker 2: I didn't want to dig into the traumas. I didn't 135 00:07:16,697 --> 00:07:19,857 Speaker 2: want to dig into what is my ultimate addiction. My 136 00:07:19,977 --> 00:07:23,177 Speaker 2: ultimate addiction is to escapism. I drink to escape. I 137 00:07:23,217 --> 00:07:26,977 Speaker 2: don't drink to have fun. There's maybe some byproducts at times, 138 00:07:27,017 --> 00:07:29,337 Speaker 2: but in the end, I drink to escape. And why 139 00:07:29,377 --> 00:07:32,096 Speaker 2: do I drink to escape? It's because from an age 140 00:07:32,097 --> 00:07:35,777 Speaker 2: of six, I learned habits of escapism. And at six 141 00:07:35,816 --> 00:07:39,897 Speaker 2: it's Tonka toys, and at thirty six it's tequila because 142 00:07:40,297 --> 00:07:43,617 Speaker 2: it's so much easier. And so I set out on 143 00:07:43,657 --> 00:07:47,417 Speaker 2: this journey of healing where I saw a Christian therapist 144 00:07:47,497 --> 00:07:50,977 Speaker 2: for a year. Every week we can follow Jesus and 145 00:07:51,097 --> 00:08:02,737 Speaker 2: know what's right and yet still struggle to do it. 146 00:08:02,977 --> 00:08:06,937 Speaker 2: Grace is way more radical then we think. I was 147 00:08:06,937 --> 00:08:09,377 Speaker 2: talking to a youth pastor once and he said, you know, 148 00:08:09,377 --> 00:08:12,897 Speaker 2: I'm talking to these parents and they're struggling with you know, 149 00:08:13,577 --> 00:08:16,097 Speaker 2: Johnny's in high school now and he's doing these things. 150 00:08:16,697 --> 00:08:18,657 Speaker 2: And he said, I took this one parent aside, and 151 00:08:18,697 --> 00:08:23,857 Speaker 2: I said, do you realize that ninety percent, ninety nine 152 00:08:24,217 --> 00:08:27,057 Speaker 2: throughout some percentage of johnny sins will be committed as 153 00:08:27,057 --> 00:08:30,257 Speaker 2: a Christian. He's like, yeah, if Johnny came to know 154 00:08:30,377 --> 00:08:33,097 Speaker 2: Christ at eight years old, right, and let's say he 155 00:08:33,137 --> 00:08:36,577 Speaker 2: lives till ninety eight, ninety years of his life will 156 00:08:36,617 --> 00:08:39,657 Speaker 2: be spent Sinny as a Christian. And I think we 157 00:08:39,777 --> 00:08:42,777 Speaker 2: forget that, right. And so the Gospel is not just 158 00:08:42,817 --> 00:08:44,577 Speaker 2: this one time thing. And that's why I say, like 159 00:08:45,257 --> 00:08:49,457 Speaker 2: salvation is a lifeline, but sanctification is a lifetime. Right. 160 00:08:49,937 --> 00:08:52,537 Speaker 2: And so I think the hope that I want to 161 00:08:52,537 --> 00:08:56,217 Speaker 2: give people is the gospel. The good News of Jesus 162 00:08:56,377 --> 00:09:00,817 Speaker 2: is for you over and over and over again, day 163 00:09:00,857 --> 00:09:04,257 Speaker 2: after day after day, minute by minute. Right, is like 164 00:09:04,617 --> 00:09:07,097 Speaker 2: we talk about come as you are, but it's also 165 00:09:07,377 --> 00:09:12,137 Speaker 2: stay as you become right, stay here and abide in 166 00:09:12,257 --> 00:09:15,377 Speaker 2: Jesus as you become more like him. And so what 167 00:09:15,417 --> 00:09:17,817 Speaker 2: I say is like, are you messing up? Are you 168 00:09:18,537 --> 00:09:22,257 Speaker 2: just absolutely not nailing it? I'd be like, yeah, that's 169 00:09:22,297 --> 00:09:25,097 Speaker 2: the point. The point of the gospel is to know 170 00:09:25,177 --> 00:09:28,657 Speaker 2: that even after you come to Jesus, you cannot not 171 00:09:28,737 --> 00:09:32,497 Speaker 2: just you will not, but you cannot nail it. And 172 00:09:32,577 --> 00:09:35,897 Speaker 2: so for those people that find themselves in the depths 173 00:09:35,937 --> 00:09:39,377 Speaker 2: of addiction, in those big sins, the Gospel makes room 174 00:09:39,417 --> 00:09:42,977 Speaker 2: for that. In fact, grace makes room for that. I 175 00:09:43,017 --> 00:09:46,097 Speaker 2: have the humility to say I need Jesus every day 176 00:09:46,297 --> 00:09:48,617 Speaker 2: as a Christian, not just the day that I come 177 00:09:48,657 --> 00:09:52,537 Speaker 2: to Jesus. My goal is for you to have a deeper, 178 00:09:53,137 --> 00:09:57,097 Speaker 2: more enriching relationship with Jesus. And that takes care of 179 00:09:57,537 --> 00:10:00,097 Speaker 2: not just the sobriety, or it takes care of the anger, 180 00:10:00,497 --> 00:10:02,977 Speaker 2: It takes care of the pride, It takes care of 181 00:10:03,017 --> 00:10:05,417 Speaker 2: the selfishness and all those other things that you need 182 00:10:05,577 --> 00:10:08,417 Speaker 2: to work on as well. I had to grieve the 183 00:10:08,497 --> 00:10:11,817 Speaker 2: loss of a friend, like really, I'm like, yeah, alcohol 184 00:10:11,977 --> 00:10:15,577 Speaker 2: was there for me. And here's what I learned that 185 00:10:15,657 --> 00:10:22,137 Speaker 2: when you experience the mental and emotional and physical anguish. 186 00:10:23,137 --> 00:10:29,137 Speaker 2: You are forced to turn to Jesus, and learning to 187 00:10:29,297 --> 00:10:32,617 Speaker 2: do that can be hard, or I should say even 188 00:10:32,697 --> 00:10:37,097 Speaker 2: like relearning to do that can be hard, and yet 189 00:10:37,817 --> 00:10:42,217 Speaker 2: it has become Really what I can say is there's 190 00:10:42,257 --> 00:10:46,337 Speaker 2: that passage, the piece that surpasses all understanding. I'm telling you, like, 191 00:10:46,497 --> 00:10:49,297 Speaker 2: there is something better on the other side of the 192 00:10:49,337 --> 00:10:53,857 Speaker 2: emotional breakdown, the physical breakdown that whatever led you to 193 00:10:53,937 --> 00:10:57,737 Speaker 2: the drinking in the first place. If you want a 194 00:10:57,737 --> 00:11:00,256 Speaker 2: more flourishing, fulfilled life, if you're tired of X, Y 195 00:11:00,297 --> 00:11:02,377 Speaker 2: and Z, if you're tired of feeling like this, it's 196 00:11:02,417 --> 00:11:05,537 Speaker 2: going to take practice. My time looks like getting up 197 00:11:05,577 --> 00:11:10,457 Speaker 2: around five am. I pray, I journal, especially, I read 198 00:11:10,457 --> 00:11:12,897 Speaker 2: the Bible, and then I generally go towards a devotional 199 00:11:12,977 --> 00:11:16,137 Speaker 2: maybe maybe for a period that is something like Jesus calling, 200 00:11:16,497 --> 00:11:18,937 Speaker 2: Maybe for a period that is something like Morning and 201 00:11:19,017 --> 00:11:22,217 Speaker 2: Evening by Charles Spurgeon, just something that gives me a 202 00:11:22,257 --> 00:11:27,617 Speaker 2: new perspective. Right, And after that, I ask two questions, 203 00:11:28,417 --> 00:11:30,337 Speaker 2: say Lord, what do you want me to know today? 204 00:11:31,137 --> 00:11:33,817 Speaker 2: And I just wait for the answer, and I write 205 00:11:33,857 --> 00:11:37,577 Speaker 2: it down. And sometimes it's a sentence and sometimes it's 206 00:11:37,577 --> 00:11:40,057 Speaker 2: a paragraph and then I say, Lord, what do you 207 00:11:40,097 --> 00:11:43,577 Speaker 2: want me to do today? And then I write that down. 208 00:11:44,257 --> 00:11:47,057 Speaker 2: If your abiding time, that's what I call mine, is 209 00:11:47,057 --> 00:11:49,497 Speaker 2: my abiding time. Maybe your abiding time looks like going 210 00:11:49,537 --> 00:11:51,217 Speaker 2: on a walk with your dog at night after the 211 00:11:51,297 --> 00:11:55,617 Speaker 2: kids go down. Right, Maybe it looks like changing the 212 00:11:55,737 --> 00:11:58,817 Speaker 2: music you listen to on your way to work and 213 00:11:59,097 --> 00:12:03,537 Speaker 2: it's prayers. Then whatever it is, try it and start 214 00:12:03,577 --> 00:12:04,217 Speaker 2: practicing it. 215 00:12:06,017 --> 00:12:09,657 Speaker 1: To learn more about Jonathan M. Sidell, visit Johnsidell dot 216 00:12:09,697 --> 00:12:11,497 Speaker 1: com and be sure to check out his new book, 217 00:12:11,657 --> 00:12:15,257 Speaker 1: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic, a candid conversation on drinking 218 00:12:15,377 --> 00:12:18,137 Speaker 1: addiction and how to break free. At your favorite retailer. 219 00:12:18,737 --> 00:12:23,497 Speaker 1: Stay tuned to Yana Jeney Connor's story after a brief message, 220 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:35,617 Speaker 1: celebrate the mothers, grandmothers, and mom figures in your life 221 00:12:35,657 --> 00:12:38,897 Speaker 1: with the Jesus. Listens for Mom's Prayer devotional by beloved 222 00:12:38,937 --> 00:12:42,537 Speaker 1: author Sarah Young. Inside you'll find fifty prayers that speak 223 00:12:42,577 --> 00:12:45,297 Speaker 1: to the power of love, the gift of strength, trusting 224 00:12:45,297 --> 00:12:48,657 Speaker 1: God during challenging times, having courage, and so much more. 225 00:12:49,137 --> 00:12:53,457 Speaker 1: Accompanying the prayers are beautiful illustrations, scripture, verses, and quotes 226 00:12:53,457 --> 00:12:55,977 Speaker 1: that will uplift women of every age and help them 227 00:12:56,017 --> 00:12:59,057 Speaker 1: talk and walk more closely with Jesus, making it the 228 00:12:59,097 --> 00:13:02,617 Speaker 1: perfect gift for mother's days, birthdays, and more. Find it 229 00:13:02,657 --> 00:13:10,657 Speaker 1: to day at your favorite retailer. Our next guest is 230 00:13:10,697 --> 00:13:14,457 Speaker 1: author and minister Yanna jen A Connor. Yanna shares how 231 00:13:14,497 --> 00:13:17,577 Speaker 1: early experiences in her family and friendships led her to 232 00:13:17,577 --> 00:13:19,497 Speaker 1: live out of a place of a fear of rejection 233 00:13:19,817 --> 00:13:22,257 Speaker 1: and how she learned what actually forgiving someone looks like 234 00:13:22,297 --> 00:13:24,377 Speaker 1: in real life, and it might be a bit different 235 00:13:24,417 --> 00:13:25,497 Speaker 1: than what we're taught in church. 236 00:13:31,577 --> 00:13:35,457 Speaker 3: There's a lot of brokenness in my family. There is 237 00:13:35,497 --> 00:13:40,377 Speaker 3: a lot of strained relationships. And I can think about 238 00:13:40,977 --> 00:13:47,057 Speaker 3: when my dad was just not present and was kind 239 00:13:47,057 --> 00:13:49,897 Speaker 3: of in and out of my life. I remember my 240 00:13:50,097 --> 00:13:54,697 Speaker 3: mom really trying to help me to not go all 241 00:13:54,777 --> 00:13:57,497 Speaker 3: bad on my dad. She still wanted me to have 242 00:13:58,177 --> 00:14:01,337 Speaker 3: a healthy view of him, to not just see him 243 00:14:01,377 --> 00:14:04,617 Speaker 3: through the lens of his abandonment. And I think my 244 00:14:04,777 --> 00:14:08,417 Speaker 3: mom just seeing her live out forgiveness with my dad 245 00:14:08,537 --> 00:14:11,817 Speaker 3: was just really remarkable. Like she never took him the court, 246 00:14:12,177 --> 00:14:15,617 Speaker 3: she never pressured him to do one thing or another. 247 00:14:16,057 --> 00:14:18,977 Speaker 3: She was always just kind of like leading with love 248 00:14:19,537 --> 00:14:22,297 Speaker 3: and forgiveness, and so to see her work through her 249 00:14:22,417 --> 00:14:25,577 Speaker 3: own pain and to see her still be kind to 250 00:14:25,657 --> 00:14:29,857 Speaker 3: my dad really gave me like the first picture of 251 00:14:29,937 --> 00:14:34,497 Speaker 3: what forgiveness could and should look like. I think it 252 00:14:34,537 --> 00:14:37,297 Speaker 3: wasn't until I was in my early twenties that I 253 00:14:37,337 --> 00:14:41,497 Speaker 3: really allowed myself to feel the ache of my dad's 254 00:14:41,617 --> 00:14:46,417 Speaker 3: absence and to really take stock of how not having 255 00:14:46,497 --> 00:14:49,977 Speaker 3: him in my life was really impacting how I just 256 00:14:50,137 --> 00:14:53,857 Speaker 3: moved in the world, like I didn't trust anybody. I 257 00:14:53,897 --> 00:14:58,417 Speaker 3: lived in a constant fear of rejection, and so just 258 00:14:59,097 --> 00:15:04,297 Speaker 3: one acknowledging the hurt and the disappointment that I felt 259 00:15:04,697 --> 00:15:07,897 Speaker 3: was crucial to that process. But then as I just 260 00:15:07,937 --> 00:15:11,937 Speaker 3: started reading scripture and was convicted by God's word and 261 00:15:11,977 --> 00:15:16,417 Speaker 3: convicted by just even how much like the Lord had 262 00:15:16,657 --> 00:15:21,017 Speaker 3: loved and forgave me, that anger sort of morphed into 263 00:15:21,097 --> 00:15:24,657 Speaker 3: grief and even into compassion for my dad. Like I 264 00:15:24,697 --> 00:15:28,017 Speaker 3: wanted my dad to experience the love of God in 265 00:15:28,057 --> 00:15:31,017 Speaker 3: the same way that I did. And so in those 266 00:15:31,137 --> 00:15:35,377 Speaker 3: early sort of conversations that he and I had about 267 00:15:35,697 --> 00:15:39,897 Speaker 3: my anger and sadness about him not being in my life, 268 00:15:40,137 --> 00:15:42,537 Speaker 3: it was really hard to live in that tension of 269 00:15:42,577 --> 00:15:46,097 Speaker 3: both expressing like the disappointment that I had, but then 270 00:15:46,257 --> 00:15:49,777 Speaker 3: also expressing a desire to have him in my life 271 00:15:49,777 --> 00:15:51,777 Speaker 3: because I kind of felt like a sour patch kid, 272 00:15:51,857 --> 00:15:54,137 Speaker 3: Like there were times where I would be really sweet 273 00:15:54,417 --> 00:15:56,417 Speaker 3: and really kind and really open, and then there'd be 274 00:15:56,417 --> 00:15:59,057 Speaker 3: other times that I was really closed. And one thing 275 00:15:59,097 --> 00:16:01,217 Speaker 3: I do have to credit my dad for was just 276 00:16:01,297 --> 00:16:03,857 Speaker 3: like how he was patient with me and that allowing 277 00:16:03,897 --> 00:16:06,497 Speaker 3: me to feel what I feel and not pushing me 278 00:16:06,977 --> 00:16:09,937 Speaker 3: to be somewhere that I wasn't. I can think of 279 00:16:10,177 --> 00:16:13,377 Speaker 3: quite a few friendships where maybe a friend said something 280 00:16:13,417 --> 00:16:18,897 Speaker 3: that was shortsighted and hurtful and they apologized for it, 281 00:16:19,257 --> 00:16:22,697 Speaker 3: but then maybe they would do something again, and it 282 00:16:22,737 --> 00:16:25,257 Speaker 3: would be really hard to sort of separate the first 283 00:16:25,417 --> 00:16:27,537 Speaker 3: sort of offense from the second one and not let 284 00:16:27,577 --> 00:16:30,017 Speaker 3: them be compounded in a way that would cause me 285 00:16:30,577 --> 00:16:32,657 Speaker 3: to go all bad on that friend or want to 286 00:16:33,057 --> 00:16:38,577 Speaker 3: retract from them. But I think what in friendship, specifically, 287 00:16:39,097 --> 00:16:41,217 Speaker 3: what it has taught me about myself is one that 288 00:16:41,257 --> 00:16:46,057 Speaker 3: I can be prideful one because it's like, I'm often 289 00:16:46,737 --> 00:16:50,017 Speaker 3: offended when someone doesn't treat me the way that I 290 00:16:50,057 --> 00:16:53,897 Speaker 3: treat them, and it's me maybe creating a narrative where 291 00:16:53,937 --> 00:16:56,297 Speaker 3: I think I'm a better friend and that they need 292 00:16:56,337 --> 00:16:59,897 Speaker 3: to get on my level in a sense and be 293 00:16:59,977 --> 00:17:02,897 Speaker 3: a better friend. But I'm really learning in friendship to 294 00:17:03,177 --> 00:17:07,097 Speaker 3: love people as they are where they are, meaning like 295 00:17:07,137 --> 00:17:09,857 Speaker 3: their personality and just kind of how they move in 296 00:17:09,897 --> 00:17:12,456 Speaker 3: the world and how that might be different from me, 297 00:17:12,857 --> 00:17:15,057 Speaker 3: but then also to love them where they are in 298 00:17:15,097 --> 00:17:19,337 Speaker 3: their emotional maturity and letting people be in process. That 299 00:17:19,497 --> 00:17:22,617 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that I let people be manipulative or lie 300 00:17:23,137 --> 00:17:25,976 Speaker 3: or abusive in any way, but I am trying to 301 00:17:26,017 --> 00:17:29,817 Speaker 3: create space for people to be human and to mess 302 00:17:29,897 --> 00:17:33,976 Speaker 3: up and not hold them to standards of perfection that 303 00:17:34,137 --> 00:17:37,936 Speaker 3: I can't even reach. And so I'm learning to be 304 00:17:37,977 --> 00:17:41,097 Speaker 3: more humble and also learning to just be more curious 305 00:17:41,137 --> 00:17:45,977 Speaker 3: in those moments, because there probably is something going on 306 00:17:45,977 --> 00:17:48,337 Speaker 3: on the other side that I could could make an 307 00:17:48,337 --> 00:17:50,777 Speaker 3: effort to understand a little bit better so that we 308 00:17:50,817 --> 00:18:02,577 Speaker 3: can move forward in the relationship. I knew pretty early 309 00:18:02,617 --> 00:18:07,817 Speaker 3: on that forgiveness was an expectation for followers of Jesus, 310 00:18:08,297 --> 00:18:10,497 Speaker 3: but I didn't know how to do it, and so 311 00:18:10,537 --> 00:18:11,897 Speaker 3: I would go to church and I would hear a 312 00:18:11,937 --> 00:18:14,977 Speaker 3: sermon on forgiveness, and I would be convicted, I would 313 00:18:15,017 --> 00:18:17,216 Speaker 3: be inspired, I would be like, yeah, I want to 314 00:18:17,257 --> 00:18:19,857 Speaker 3: do the thing that you just encouraged me to do, 315 00:18:20,137 --> 00:18:23,057 Speaker 3: but I would leave not sure how to actually do 316 00:18:23,097 --> 00:18:26,097 Speaker 3: the work of forgiveness. I'm trying to answer the question 317 00:18:26,217 --> 00:18:30,057 Speaker 3: what is forgiveness and how do we actually do it? 318 00:18:30,097 --> 00:18:33,017 Speaker 3: Because for me, it was like, it's forgiveness forgetting, it's 319 00:18:33,057 --> 00:18:37,657 Speaker 3: forgiveness ignoring. Is it waiting for my feelings to move 320 00:18:37,737 --> 00:18:40,857 Speaker 3: from anger to delight? What actually is forgiveness? And how 321 00:18:40,857 --> 00:18:44,417 Speaker 3: do I know whether or not I've actually done it. 322 00:18:44,617 --> 00:18:48,177 Speaker 3: I'm trying to answer those questions along with sort of 323 00:18:48,617 --> 00:18:51,537 Speaker 3: dealing with some of the tougher issues like abuse or 324 00:18:51,577 --> 00:18:53,736 Speaker 3: what do you do when you're just so consumed with 325 00:18:53,857 --> 00:18:56,977 Speaker 3: anger because the person who sinned against you, they didn't 326 00:18:57,057 --> 00:18:59,897 Speaker 3: just hurt your feelings like they changed your life, right, 327 00:19:00,177 --> 00:19:03,057 Speaker 3: and so how do you actually forgive that person when 328 00:19:03,097 --> 00:19:06,777 Speaker 3: you have this deep longing for justice and for things 329 00:19:06,817 --> 00:19:09,936 Speaker 3: to be made right again. I'm actually walking through something 330 00:19:10,217 --> 00:19:15,097 Speaker 3: right now that is really painful and disorienting, where someone 331 00:19:15,137 --> 00:19:18,577 Speaker 3: has sinned against me and it's one of those offenses 332 00:19:18,697 --> 00:19:22,177 Speaker 3: that changes your life, that changes sort of your day today. 333 00:19:22,617 --> 00:19:24,817 Speaker 3: And one of the things I've been trying to do 334 00:19:24,937 --> 00:19:28,297 Speaker 3: is just makes space to feel what I feel and 335 00:19:28,337 --> 00:19:31,817 Speaker 3: then also to tell the truth about what I feel 336 00:19:31,897 --> 00:19:36,337 Speaker 3: to God and to others. And that's been something that's 337 00:19:36,377 --> 00:19:39,457 Speaker 3: really helping me day by day to keep putting one 338 00:19:39,497 --> 00:19:43,137 Speaker 3: foot in front of the other. But yes, forgiveness does 339 00:19:43,297 --> 00:19:46,297 Speaker 3: feel out of reach. It feels out of reach because 340 00:19:46,297 --> 00:19:49,577 Speaker 3: I'm in pain, because I'm scared, and because i don't 341 00:19:49,617 --> 00:19:53,617 Speaker 3: want to be hurt again. But the thing that keeps 342 00:19:53,697 --> 00:19:59,577 Speaker 3: me moving towards forgiveness is remembering the forgiveness that I've received. 343 00:19:59,857 --> 00:20:05,457 Speaker 3: I'm learning that the power to forgive comes from remember 344 00:20:06,097 --> 00:20:09,417 Speaker 3: the grace and the mercy that I've received. And so 345 00:20:09,857 --> 00:20:14,017 Speaker 3: in Matthew eighteen, the parable of the unforgiving servant Jesus 346 00:20:14,177 --> 00:20:17,897 Speaker 3: is telling us, Hey, if you've been forgiven this great debt, 347 00:20:18,377 --> 00:20:22,537 Speaker 3: how can you not forgive others? And so, when forgiveness 348 00:20:22,537 --> 00:20:24,976 Speaker 3: feels out of reach, like we have to reach for 349 00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:28,097 Speaker 3: the cross that saved us, the cross that grants us 350 00:20:28,137 --> 00:20:32,337 Speaker 3: forgiveness of sins, so that we can't extend that forgiveness 351 00:20:32,377 --> 00:20:38,897 Speaker 3: to others. So there's forgiveness and then there's reconciliation. And 352 00:20:39,017 --> 00:20:43,777 Speaker 3: those are two different steps in what we hope to 353 00:20:43,897 --> 00:20:48,897 Speaker 3: be like a restorative process. After someone has sinned against us. 354 00:20:49,257 --> 00:20:53,697 Speaker 3: Forgiveness is releasing them of their debt and not retaliating 355 00:20:53,737 --> 00:20:57,777 Speaker 3: against them in anger. And we make this decision out 356 00:20:57,817 --> 00:21:00,697 Speaker 3: of mercy because they don't deserve forgiveness, but we offer 357 00:21:00,737 --> 00:21:04,137 Speaker 3: it to them freely because forgiveness was offered to us freely. 358 00:21:04,737 --> 00:21:11,377 Speaker 3: Forgiveness doesn't always mean reconciliation. Reconciliation is a shared work. 359 00:21:11,657 --> 00:21:14,857 Speaker 3: And in Matthew eighteen, right before the parable of the 360 00:21:14,937 --> 00:21:18,897 Speaker 3: unforgiving Servant, Jesus is giving instructions on how we are 361 00:21:18,977 --> 00:21:22,137 Speaker 3: to move forward and after a brother or sister has 362 00:21:22,137 --> 00:21:24,897 Speaker 3: sinned against us, And so he says, if someone sends 363 00:21:24,897 --> 00:21:27,617 Speaker 3: against you, to go to them and tell them their faults. 364 00:21:27,937 --> 00:21:31,216 Speaker 3: If they listen, then he says, you've gained that brother 365 00:21:31,297 --> 00:21:34,857 Speaker 3: a sister back. That word listen means like, if they 366 00:21:34,937 --> 00:21:38,736 Speaker 3: respond by admitting that yes, they have sinned against you, 367 00:21:39,217 --> 00:21:43,297 Speaker 3: and they also start to live in a way that 368 00:21:43,497 --> 00:21:46,617 Speaker 3: is repentive in light of what they did, then you 369 00:21:46,657 --> 00:21:49,297 Speaker 3: have gained your brother back. But Jesus actually says like, 370 00:21:49,417 --> 00:21:52,417 Speaker 3: but if they don't listen, go and get two witnesses 371 00:21:52,737 --> 00:21:56,217 Speaker 3: who can help you all kind of like mediate the conversation. 372 00:21:56,697 --> 00:21:59,577 Speaker 3: And then if that person still doesn't listen, then and 373 00:21:59,617 --> 00:22:02,737 Speaker 3: go and get the church. And if they don't listen 374 00:22:02,977 --> 00:22:05,017 Speaker 3: even still, then he says to treat them like a 375 00:22:05,097 --> 00:22:10,297 Speaker 3: gentile or a tax collector. And so forgiveness doesn't equal reconciliation. 376 00:22:10,777 --> 00:22:14,337 Speaker 3: Jesus actually says if they don't repent, if they don't 377 00:22:14,377 --> 00:22:17,177 Speaker 3: confess of their sins, so if they don't say I'm sorry, 378 00:22:17,497 --> 00:22:20,897 Speaker 3: and if they don't change their ways, then we are 379 00:22:21,017 --> 00:22:24,497 Speaker 3: encouraged to treat them differently moving forward. And so the 380 00:22:24,577 --> 00:22:27,937 Speaker 3: language gentile there on what Jesus is referring to as 381 00:22:28,017 --> 00:22:30,897 Speaker 3: like an unbelieving person. So where maybe you interacted with 382 00:22:30,937 --> 00:22:33,177 Speaker 3: them like a brother and sister in Christ, you no 383 00:22:33,257 --> 00:22:37,137 Speaker 3: longer come to the relationship with that expectation. And then 384 00:22:37,257 --> 00:22:39,817 Speaker 3: even later when he says to treat them like a 385 00:22:39,857 --> 00:22:42,817 Speaker 3: tax collector, and that culture, tax collectors were seen as 386 00:22:42,857 --> 00:22:46,617 Speaker 3: abusive people. And so in those sort of situations, not 387 00:22:46,697 --> 00:22:49,057 Speaker 3: only do we need to restructure or come to the 388 00:22:49,137 --> 00:22:53,057 Speaker 3: relationship with different expectations, but we also need to end 389 00:22:53,137 --> 00:22:56,577 Speaker 3: those kinds of relationships. Like Jesus doesn't want us to 390 00:22:56,617 --> 00:23:01,097 Speaker 3: be in abusive relationships, and so if someone is proving 391 00:23:01,137 --> 00:23:05,057 Speaker 3: themselves to be abusive, then in those situations we need 392 00:23:05,097 --> 00:23:13,177 Speaker 3: to end and in that relationship. I think when it 393 00:23:13,217 --> 00:23:18,577 Speaker 3: comes to learning to trust again, particularly the person who's 394 00:23:18,617 --> 00:23:20,777 Speaker 3: offended you, one of the things that you want to 395 00:23:20,777 --> 00:23:25,097 Speaker 3: look for is that they have a level of understanding 396 00:23:25,377 --> 00:23:28,297 Speaker 3: of what they did. And so I found myself in 397 00:23:28,417 --> 00:23:32,577 Speaker 3: some relationships where someone has sinned against me and I 398 00:23:32,657 --> 00:23:35,457 Speaker 3: forgive them and we're trying to move forward in the relationship, 399 00:23:35,857 --> 00:23:40,217 Speaker 3: but I always have to kind of like restate what 400 00:23:40,297 --> 00:23:42,777 Speaker 3: they did and how it hurt me, because they just 401 00:23:42,897 --> 00:23:46,137 Speaker 3: don't understand. And I think when you're having to do 402 00:23:46,217 --> 00:23:48,697 Speaker 3: that kind of work and it seems like they don't 403 00:23:48,697 --> 00:23:53,137 Speaker 3: really understand what happened and how it impacted you, I 404 00:23:53,137 --> 00:23:56,177 Speaker 3: think in those situations we need to be slow to 405 00:23:56,257 --> 00:23:59,657 Speaker 3: trust because if they don't understand the weight of what 406 00:23:59,737 --> 00:24:03,457 Speaker 3: they did, it's likely that they'll do it again, or 407 00:24:03,497 --> 00:24:05,977 Speaker 3: they'll send against you in some other way. I think 408 00:24:06,017 --> 00:24:10,016 Speaker 3: another thing to look out for is change. Is this 409 00:24:10,097 --> 00:24:14,257 Speaker 3: person actually changing and not just changing on a surface 410 00:24:14,337 --> 00:24:18,257 Speaker 3: level where you're seeing their behaviors change, but also like 411 00:24:18,337 --> 00:24:21,457 Speaker 3: on a heart level. I had a friend and we 412 00:24:21,457 --> 00:24:24,456 Speaker 3: were walking through something, and though she wasn't doing the 413 00:24:24,497 --> 00:24:28,736 Speaker 3: same behavior that she was doing before, she still was 414 00:24:28,777 --> 00:24:34,097 Speaker 3: like posturing herself as the most important person in the relationship, 415 00:24:34,217 --> 00:24:37,497 Speaker 3: and so her narrative was the one that was most important. 416 00:24:37,857 --> 00:24:39,897 Speaker 3: So there were still other ways where I felt like 417 00:24:40,377 --> 00:24:43,777 Speaker 3: deriilled or hurt even though she wasn't doing the same thing. 418 00:24:43,857 --> 00:24:46,097 Speaker 3: And it was because the change hadn't happened on a 419 00:24:46,137 --> 00:24:48,297 Speaker 3: heart level. And that didn't mean that I didn't still 420 00:24:48,337 --> 00:24:50,777 Speaker 3: move forward with her. It just meant that I was 421 00:24:50,817 --> 00:24:53,417 Speaker 3: a little bit more aware of how I could trust 422 00:24:53,417 --> 00:24:55,537 Speaker 3: her and how I couldn't. And I think that's the 423 00:24:55,577 --> 00:24:58,937 Speaker 3: thing that we can also be mindful of when we're 424 00:24:58,977 --> 00:25:02,297 Speaker 3: trying to move forward with someone relationally. It's like, maybe 425 00:25:02,337 --> 00:25:04,857 Speaker 3: I can't trust you with my finances, but I can 426 00:25:04,937 --> 00:25:07,497 Speaker 3: trust you to show up for me when I need 427 00:25:07,577 --> 00:25:11,256 Speaker 3: somebody to listen. Or maybe I can't trust you with 428 00:25:11,337 --> 00:25:14,657 Speaker 3: my emotional well being, but I can kick it with 429 00:25:14,697 --> 00:25:17,017 Speaker 3: you and have fun, you know, from time to time. 430 00:25:17,337 --> 00:25:19,657 Speaker 3: And so I think what we usually do someone sends 431 00:25:19,657 --> 00:25:22,777 Speaker 3: against us, we just throw the whole relationship away. But 432 00:25:22,897 --> 00:25:26,256 Speaker 3: the question probably needs to be like, where can we 433 00:25:26,297 --> 00:25:28,936 Speaker 3: still trust them, what can we still trust them with 434 00:25:29,377 --> 00:25:32,776 Speaker 3: and sort of like exploring what's relationally possible before we 435 00:25:32,857 --> 00:25:36,657 Speaker 3: just bring the relationship to a complete end. In this 436 00:25:36,777 --> 00:25:41,776 Speaker 3: season where I've been working through how to respond to 437 00:25:42,617 --> 00:25:47,537 Speaker 3: someone who has send against me, it's been my daily 438 00:25:47,617 --> 00:25:52,257 Speaker 3: time with the Word that has made the difference. Daily 439 00:25:52,337 --> 00:25:56,257 Speaker 3: time with the Lord, praying and just like pouring out 440 00:25:56,257 --> 00:25:59,617 Speaker 3: my heart, asking him for help to see things the 441 00:25:59,657 --> 00:26:02,537 Speaker 3: way that he sees it, asking him to help me 442 00:26:02,697 --> 00:26:06,177 Speaker 3: to not retaliate in anger. I've been starting almost every 443 00:26:06,257 --> 00:26:09,137 Speaker 3: day with twenty minutes of silence and solitude, just twenty 444 00:26:09,137 --> 00:26:11,696 Speaker 3: minutes of just me sitting with the Lord and just 445 00:26:11,777 --> 00:26:14,097 Speaker 3: talking to him about whatever comes to my heart, or 446 00:26:14,177 --> 00:26:17,337 Speaker 3: just sitting still and like allowing him to speak to me. 447 00:26:17,777 --> 00:26:21,897 Speaker 3: And that's really made the difference in my life. I 448 00:26:21,977 --> 00:26:25,537 Speaker 3: love what Jesus calling is doing. He's always inviting us 449 00:26:25,937 --> 00:26:29,297 Speaker 3: to be in his presence, and I can confess that 450 00:26:29,617 --> 00:26:33,696 Speaker 3: on the days where I choose to not accept that invitation, 451 00:26:34,337 --> 00:26:36,857 Speaker 3: it shows. It shows and how I show up in 452 00:26:36,897 --> 00:26:43,497 Speaker 3: the world I'm reading from Jesus listens June third, God 453 00:26:43,537 --> 00:26:46,577 Speaker 3: of Grace, I come to you for understanding, since you 454 00:26:46,697 --> 00:26:50,377 Speaker 3: know me far better than I know myself. You comprehend 455 00:26:50,417 --> 00:26:53,937 Speaker 3: me in all my complexity. No detail of my life 456 00:26:54,097 --> 00:26:58,177 Speaker 3: is hidden from you. Yet I don't need to fear 457 00:26:58,417 --> 00:27:01,377 Speaker 3: your intimate awareness of me, because I know that you 458 00:27:01,577 --> 00:27:06,257 Speaker 3: view me through eyes of grace. Lord, I want the 459 00:27:06,377 --> 00:27:09,737 Speaker 3: light of your healing presence to shine into the deepest 460 00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:15,017 Speaker 3: recesses of my being, cleansing, healing, refreshing, and renewing me. 461 00:27:16,057 --> 00:27:19,097 Speaker 3: Help me to trust you enough to accept the full 462 00:27:19,217 --> 00:27:24,377 Speaker 3: forgiveness that you offer me continually. This glorious gift costs 463 00:27:24,457 --> 00:27:28,256 Speaker 3: you your life, and it is mine for all eternity. 464 00:27:29,137 --> 00:27:33,697 Speaker 3: I am grateful that forgiveness is at the very core 465 00:27:33,817 --> 00:27:37,377 Speaker 3: of your abiding presence. You assure me through your word, 466 00:27:37,737 --> 00:27:41,217 Speaker 3: I will never leave you nor forsake you. When no 467 00:27:41,297 --> 00:27:45,137 Speaker 3: one else seems to understand me, I can simply draw 468 00:27:45,217 --> 00:27:48,456 Speaker 3: nearer to you, rejoicing in the one who understands me 469 00:27:48,537 --> 00:27:52,057 Speaker 3: completely and loves me perfectly as you feel me with 470 00:27:52,097 --> 00:27:55,697 Speaker 3: your love. I long to become a reservoir of love 471 00:27:56,097 --> 00:27:59,617 Speaker 3: that overflows into the lives of other people and your 472 00:27:59,777 --> 00:28:01,457 Speaker 3: loving name, Jesus. 473 00:28:03,977 --> 00:28:08,177 Speaker 1: To learn more about Yanna Jennek, visit www dot Yanna 474 00:28:08,297 --> 00:28:10,657 Speaker 1: Jennay dot com. And be sure to check out her 475 00:28:10,697 --> 00:28:13,577 Speaker 1: new book, Living Beyond a Fence, Doing the hard Work 476 00:28:13,577 --> 00:28:17,617 Speaker 1: of Forgiveness, God's Way, available at your favorite retailer. If 477 00:28:17,617 --> 00:28:19,937 Speaker 1: you'd like to hear more stories about forgiveness, check out 478 00:28:19,937 --> 00:28:25,696 Speaker 1: our interview with Gene Lacn. Next time on the Jesus 479 00:28:25,697 --> 00:28:28,817 Speaker 1: Calling podcast, we'll hear from Michael Leach, the CEO of 480 00:28:28,897 --> 00:28:31,537 Speaker 1: Bridge Trust Partners, known for his work in the NFL 481 00:28:31,777 --> 00:28:34,617 Speaker 1: and as the first Chief Diversity officer in the White House. 482 00:28:36,897 --> 00:28:42,097 Speaker 2: It's through our surrendering that God does his establishing, whether 483 00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:44,817 Speaker 2: it's in our career, our finance, with our marriage, or 484 00:28:45,057 --> 00:28:46,657 Speaker 2: our sense of control. 485 00:28:46,977 --> 00:28:50,257 Speaker 3: And I think that obedience is what ultimately led me 486 00:28:50,297 --> 00:28:51,097 Speaker 3: to the White House. 487 00:28:58,617 --> 00:29:01,177 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith 488 00:29:01,217 --> 00:29:05,057 Speaker 1: podcast on the Live Audio Network. Every week we'll bring 489 00:29:05,097 --> 00:29:07,697 Speaker 1: you stories from people who share their journeys of faith 490 00:29:08,017 --> 00:29:11,737 Speaker 1: and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives. 491 00:29:12,497 --> 00:29:15,857 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or 492 00:29:15,937 --> 00:29:19,177 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave us a review 493 00:29:19,297 --> 00:29:23,497 Speaker 1: so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally, 494 00:29:23,777 --> 00:29:27,297 Speaker 1: you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus 495 00:29:27,337 --> 00:29:30,577 Speaker 1: Calling website at jesus calling dot com.