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Speaker 1: Life audio.

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Speaker 2: My job, your job, our job as preachers is to

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Speaker 2: proclaim the Gospel and leave the results in the hands

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Speaker 2: of God. You know, it's his harvest, it's his work.

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Speaker 2: Success in evangelism is faithfulness in giving the message. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 2: I'm here with my friend Bob Frankuist, pastor of Calvary

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Speaker 2: Fellowship in me or Mar, Florida. So I just got

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Speaker 2: to know Bobby came to church recently and he said,

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Speaker 2: can I talk to you about evangelism after the service?

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Speaker 2: And so we went in my office and we're talking.

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Speaker 2: I said, Bob, those are great questions. We should record this,

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Speaker 2: and so that's what you're about to hear. We sat

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Speaker 2: down and he asked me a lot of questions, not

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Speaker 2: just that a pastor would ask of another pastor, but

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Speaker 2: just questions that a Christian would ask of another believer

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Speaker 2: on how to share our faith. So if you're a pastor,

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Speaker 2: if you're a leader, you will benefit from what you're

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Speaker 2: about to hear. But if you're just a believer wanting

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Speaker 2: to know how to be more effective and telling others

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Speaker 2: about Jesus, I think this will be a meaningful conversation

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Speaker 2: for you too, So check it out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So when did you realize that you had the

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Speaker 3: gift of evangelism.

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Speaker 2: I think I realized that I had a gift of

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Speaker 2: evangelism when I just went out and started sharing the

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Speaker 2: Gospel with people. You know, That's what the pastor told us.

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Speaker 2: Pastor Chucksmith said, God and share your faith. And I

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Speaker 2: started doing that, and I noticed that it was not

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Speaker 2: that hard for me.

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Speaker 1: In fact, that's.

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Speaker 2: Kind of what prompted me to write a little cartoon

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Speaker 2: book look called the Living Water Track, because all the

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Speaker 2: tracks that's what we called them, that were out those

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Speaker 2: days are kind of health, fire and brimstone. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I even remember reading one before I was a Christian,

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Speaker 2: when I was high on drugs, and.

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Speaker 1: I laughed at it. Wow.

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Speaker 2: So I thought, I want to write something that I

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Speaker 2: think people will read and not laugh at me get

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Speaker 2: their attention. So I was a cartoonist. So I drew

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Speaker 2: this little track and I took it to Pastor Chuck Smith.

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Speaker 2: If you saw the Jesus Revolution movie, that scene is

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Speaker 2: in the film, and that's very accurate. I showed it

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Speaker 2: to him, and I think I was hoping he might

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Speaker 2: want to do something with it, because it was based

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Speaker 2: on one of his sermons, and he was giving from

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Speaker 2: John four, and he said, redraw it in this format,

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Speaker 2: and then we published it. But then fast forward a bit.

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Speaker 2: I'm hanging around at Calvary Chopel, volunteering my time, doing

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Speaker 2: whatever needs to be done. And so Chuck wanted to

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Speaker 2: do like these little Bible study classes, sort of like

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Speaker 2: a little school that people could come to for a week,

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Speaker 2: you know, and all of us would teach in different spaces.

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Speaker 2: And I was just starting out, and he says, Greg,

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Speaker 2: you should teach a class on evangelism. I said why,

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Speaker 2: He said, because you're an evangelist. And at that point

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a pastor, which I was. But

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Speaker 2: Chuck saw the gift in me. Even before I fully

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Speaker 2: saw to myself, I thought of my sharing the Gospel

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Speaker 2: as just doing whatever Christian should do, you know, evangelizing.

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Speaker 2: But there's a difference between evangelizing and being an evangelist.

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Speaker 2: Every Christian may not be called to be an evangelist,

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Speaker 2: but every Christian is called to evangelize. Paul said to Timothy,

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Speaker 2: do the work of an evangelist. And the only person

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Speaker 2: who was specifically identified as an evangelist was Philip And

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Speaker 2: so it's not a common gift, though. I think Paul

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Speaker 2: certainly had that gift as he obviously preached, and Peter

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Speaker 2: certainly had that gift Day of Pentecost three thousand believed,

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Speaker 2: later five thousand believes. But Philip specifically was called an evangelist.

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Speaker 2: And so it was Pastor Chuck that really identified that

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Speaker 2: gifting of evangelist in my life for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. Interesting, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: So you start teaching, yes, and when you started teaching

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Speaker 3: the Bible, where is it immediate that you started giving

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Speaker 3: invitations for people to come to know Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of the reverse of that. So I

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Speaker 2: started preaching with the Christian bands. I was traveling around

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Speaker 2: with them and I would get up an evangelize, and

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Speaker 2: so that's what I now thought I was called to do,

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Speaker 2: be an evangelist. And there was this little Bible study

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Speaker 2: in Riverside, which is about forty five minutes from Orange

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Speaker 2: County where I was living, that needed someone to teach,

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Speaker 2: and I went up and started doing it and it

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Speaker 2: began to grow, and thought, I need to find a

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Speaker 2: pastor to take this thing over, because I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go travel around and evangelize well, I couldn't find anyone

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Speaker 2: to take it over, and pretty soon people were calling

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Speaker 2: me pastor, pastor Greg and I'm thinking, I'm not a pastor.

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Speaker 2: I'd only been a Christian two years. I was still learning.

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Speaker 2: I'm still learning, but I was really still learning then,

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Speaker 2: so was I really was already naturally an evangelist. So

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Speaker 2: it was always very easy for me to sort of,

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Speaker 2: you know, put an evangelistic hook at the end of

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Speaker 2: a message. That was the easy part. The part where

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Speaker 2: I had to really discipline myself was learning to teach,

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Speaker 2: because when you're a traveling preacher or an evangelist, you

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Speaker 2: know you have one simple message. I remember once hearing

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Speaker 2: the story of Billy Graham in a longtime associate T. W.

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Speaker 1: Wilson.

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Speaker 2: Billy was thinking about what he was going to preach.

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Speaker 2: He said, tw I can't really think of what I

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Speaker 2: should preach on tonight. And tw said, Billy, you only

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Speaker 2: have one message, you know. So technically an evangelist really

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Speaker 2: only has one message. He may have a different text,

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Speaker 2: different illustrations, but it's a message of the Gospel. So

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Speaker 2: I was doing that already, and I had a few

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Speaker 2: messages I would preach over and over again, but now

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Speaker 2: to teach people, to take them through a book of

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Speaker 2: the Bible, to let the text dictate the direction of

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Speaker 2: the message. That was in new discipline, and to study

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Speaker 2: because that was not a good student in school. So

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Speaker 2: to build a library and to learn how to process

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Speaker 2: information and organize it and then deliver it. That was

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Speaker 2: where I That was where I needed to use discipline

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Speaker 2: of my life, and I had to really leave my

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Speaker 2: comfort zone. Evangelizing was the easy part. Teaching was the

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Speaker 2: more challenging part.

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Speaker 3: So it's been over fifty years since you've been preaching

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Speaker 3: and pastoring. How would you say, obviously, the gospel doesn't change.

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Speaker 3: How has your presentation of the gospel changed or maybe,

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Speaker 3: for lack of a better term, become more polished over

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Speaker 3: the five decades.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good question.

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Speaker 2: Well, the gospel doesn't change, but culture does change. And

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Speaker 2: you could see that Paul took a different tact on

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Speaker 2: marsh Hill. Then he took another place. S Paul spoke

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Speaker 2: to such diverse audiences, governors, just general multitude, Jewish audiences,

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Speaker 2: gensale audiences. Marcel, of course, was there in Athens, Greece

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Speaker 2: that was the intellectual capital of the world, with the

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Speaker 2: philosophers would gather and discuss the ladiest teachings, and Poul

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Speaker 2: took the time to walk around assess the culture. In

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Speaker 2: his message, he said, it was walking around your city

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Speaker 2: and I noticed that ultra erected to the unknown God.

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Speaker 2: That's the one I want to know, the one I

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Speaker 2: want to talk to you about today. It was said

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Speaker 2: that there were more gods in Athens than that were people.

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Speaker 2: They worshiped everything in everyone. So Paul took time to

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Speaker 2: assess the culture. He even quotes one of their secular

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Speaker 2: poets while he's speaking, as your own poets have said,

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Speaker 2: in him we live and move and have our being.

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Speaker 2: He was speaking to two basic groups of people, the

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Speaker 2: Epicureans and the Stoics. The Epicureans, simplified, believed in the

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Speaker 2: pursuit of pleasure to the party animals of the first century.

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Speaker 2: The Stoics were more disciplined. We might compare them to

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Speaker 2: New Age philosophy today. So he understood his audience and

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Speaker 2: he adapted his message to them. Peter on the day

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Speaker 2: Pentecost is speaking to a largely Jewish audience. So you

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Speaker 2: see him liberally quoting Old Testament scriptures. So I think

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Speaker 2: you have to assess your audience. And I think, as

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Speaker 2: I've been doing this for a while, especially in crusades,

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Speaker 2: I mean I was living in a different time when

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Speaker 2: I did the first crusade. Vanilla Ice had a hit

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Speaker 2: on the radio. I think Seinfeld was still on television.

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Speaker 2: George H. W. Bush was president, there was no such

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Speaker 2: thing as an iPhone, the Internet was coming, was in

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Speaker 2: its infancy, So it was a different time. But then

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Speaker 2: there's similarities. And the similarities are, you know, everyone is empty,

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Speaker 2: everyone is lonely, everyone is guilty, everyone is afraid to die.

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Speaker 2: These things will never change. So I'll often come back

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Speaker 2: to similar themes that my crusade messages, but I might

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Speaker 2: drop from cultural things happening. I might do my version

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Speaker 2: of quoting a secular philosopher. I might say this person

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Speaker 2: said this famous rock star said this, showing the emptiness

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Speaker 2: of life. So in the beginning of my message, I'll

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Speaker 2: often make cultural connections. So if you're a nonbeliever, you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about. I'm not speaking a foreign

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Speaker 2: language to you. I'm beginning to make my case, not

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Speaker 2: using the Bible yet, I'm making my case with other sources.

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Speaker 2: But then ultimately I recognize that the power of my

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Speaker 2: message is in scripture, not in quoting secular sources. So

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Speaker 2: that's just a bridge to get to the main message.

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Speaker 2: And the power of the message is in the Gospel.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask Billy Graham when I was having

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Speaker 2: lunch in this home, if an older Billy could speak

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Speaker 2: to a younger Billy, what would you tell yourself to

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Speaker 2: preach on more? He said, I would preach more on

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Speaker 2: the Cross and on the blood of Christ, because that's

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Speaker 2: where the power is. And I think that's so true.

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Speaker 2: I know that there's power in the simple message of

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Speaker 2: the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, and I know

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Speaker 2: when I get to that part, there's just, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's something special there. That's why Paul said, I'm not

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Speaker 2: ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the

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Speaker 2: power of God under salvation. Paul uses the Greek word dunamus,

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Speaker 2: which means explosive dynamite power, so it's a recognition of that. C. H.

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Speaker 2: Spurgeon once said he always tries to make a beeline

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Speaker 2: to the cross, so I think that's very important. And

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Speaker 2: coming back to Billy again, I once saw him being

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Speaker 2: interviewed by British interviewer David Frost, and Billy made a

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Speaker 2: really important statement. He said, I studied to be simple.

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Speaker 2: So the job of an evangelist is to strip away

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Speaker 2: anything that would come implicate your message, anything that would

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Speaker 2: clutter your message, avoid you know, peripheral issues that are important,

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Speaker 2: but their secondary to the message of the Gospel. And

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Speaker 2: so you wanted to be understood by your listener. And

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Speaker 2: you know, when I think about the audience of you know,

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Speaker 2: the seventies when I first started preaching, compared to the

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Speaker 2: audience of today, very different and far more biblically illiterate. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I would say, almost completely biblically illiterate. So I recognize

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Speaker 2: that when I use, you know, a statement like well,

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Speaker 2: Adam and even the garden, or Noah's arc or sin

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Speaker 2: or you need to accept Christ? Okay, great, But does

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Speaker 2: a person know what I mean when I say you

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Speaker 2: need to accept Christ? Does a person need to know

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Speaker 2: what I mean when I say you're a sinner? And

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Speaker 2: the answer is yes. So I find that nowadays, kind

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Speaker 2: of following billies advice studying to be simple, I explain everything.

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Speaker 2: I don't assume my listener understands anything I'm saying. So

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Speaker 2: I'll say, and tonight, I'm going to give you an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to put your faith in Christ. What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: And I'll break it down, and I'll often weave my testimony,

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Speaker 2: even though you know it happened a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: I still weave my testimony how I came to Christ,

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Speaker 2: and because that's a way to kind of put myself

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Speaker 2: in the shoes of my listener, because I think they think, oh,

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Speaker 2: you're some preacher, you were raised in a Christian home,

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Speaker 2: you live in a Christian bubble. And when I tell

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Speaker 2: him my mother was married and divorce seven times, I

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Speaker 2: came from an alcoholic comb I myself used drugs for

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Speaker 2: a time, it shows them that I'm from the same

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Speaker 2: world that they're from. And success builds walls, failures build bridges.

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Speaker 2: So by that, I mean, if my life looks so perfect,

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Speaker 2: that's so successful, that doesn't relate to anyone failure. Where

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Speaker 2: I talk about my own struggles, my own challenges, how

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Speaker 2: I came to faith. That builds a bridge to the

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Speaker 2: person I'm speaking to. Very long answered to your question, No,

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Speaker 2: it's great.

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Speaker 3: That's so I want to kind of shift a little

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Speaker 3: bit and talk about senior pastors in churches and how

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Speaker 3: they can do evangelism. So going back five decades, were

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Speaker 3: you from the very beginning giving some type of invitation

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Speaker 3: every week or was it every other week, or was

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Speaker 3: it hey, i'm looking out, Hey, I know everybody. I've

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Speaker 3: been in everybody's home. Was there a stage where you said, hey,

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Speaker 3: I don't know everybody here. I need to make sure

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Speaker 3: that I'm giving people an opportunity to know Jesus.

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Speaker 2: I pretty much always have given invitations, but we have

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Speaker 2: always sought to build an evangelistic culture. So speaking to pastors,

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Speaker 2: you need to build an evangelistic culture in your church.

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Speaker 2: And that doesn't happen automatically. So what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: I would say, first be sharing your faith yourself. You know,

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Speaker 2: just you as a pastor, you're first to Christian So

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Speaker 2: when you're out and about just living your life doing

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Speaker 2: what you do, look for opportunities to share your faith.

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Speaker 2: And I like to share those stories and the pulpit.

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Speaker 2: So in effect, I'm modeling for people what I do.

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Speaker 2: And I don't just tell them my successful stories. I

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Speaker 2: tell them about my failures. Yeah, I had this conversation

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Speaker 2: and the guy wasn't interested or I didn't have the

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Speaker 2: right answer for his question. You know, so they understand

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Speaker 2: that I don't always do it perfectly because I don't,

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Speaker 2: you know, so I think start first to do that.

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Speaker 2: But then also I emphasize the importance of sharing our

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Speaker 2: faith to our people, and I encourage them to bring

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Speaker 2: people to church that don't know the Lord. And so

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Speaker 2: when you give an imitation and maybe one of your

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Speaker 2: congregants brought someone who accepts Christ, they get very excited

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Speaker 2: about that. And I know that invitations, and by an invitation,

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Speaker 2: I mean giving an opportunity for a person to come

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Speaker 2: to Christ can be risky. But hey, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you're going to take a risk, what a great thing

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Speaker 2: to take it on. And when people do come to Christ,

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Speaker 2: that is going to be a blessing. New converts are

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Speaker 2: the lifeblood of the church. Show me a church that

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Speaker 2: does not have a constant flow of new believers coming in,

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Speaker 2: and I'll show you a church that's stagnating. So we

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Speaker 2: have a choice. We can evangelize or fossilize. We must evangelize.

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Speaker 2: It's part of the calling of the church. I see

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Speaker 2: the purpose of the church as threefold. We're here for

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Speaker 2: the glorification of God, We're here for the edification of

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Speaker 2: the saints, and we're here for the evangelization of the

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Speaker 2: world upward, inward outward.

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Speaker 1: So we're here to.

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Speaker 2: Glorify God, build one another up, but also to evangelize

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Speaker 2: and so develop an evangelistic culture is in your church.

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Speaker 2: And then yes, give invitations, and it won't always work.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes a lot of people will come forward. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: only a handful of people will come forward. And there

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Speaker 2: might even be a time when no one comes forward.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, there's a lot of ways to

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Speaker 2: skin a cat, so to speak. You know a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways to give an invitation. You can have people

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Speaker 2: get up out of their seat, walk forward and pray.

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Speaker 2: I do that in every crusade, but I don't do

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Speaker 2: it in every church service. You can have a person

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Speaker 2: raise their hand and lead him in a prayer from

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Speaker 2: the pulpit. You can say, go to a room over

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Speaker 2: to the side if you would like to accept Christ.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's as important as giving people an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to give their life to Christ. I was in

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Speaker 2: New York once listening to a very well known preacher.

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Speaker 2: He gave one of the best messages I've ever heard

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Speaker 2: of The prodigal son. It was literally just flawless, and

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Speaker 2: it was the perfect message to give an invitation. But instead,

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Speaker 2: when he was done, he just prayed and walked off

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Speaker 2: the stage, and I thought, what a missed opportunity. I

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Speaker 2: believe people would have accepted Christ right there on the spot.

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Speaker 2: So I say, develop an evangelistic culture. Newcombers are the

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Speaker 2: lifeblood of the church, and give invitations. I have one

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Speaker 2: friend who's a pastor. He's in heaven now, but he said,

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Speaker 2: I never really felt called to be an evangelist, but

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do it more. And I literally listened

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Speaker 2: to your messages and I copied what you said and

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Speaker 2: said it for batim for the first few weeks, and

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Speaker 2: then it became more natural to me and I started

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Speaker 2: just doing it on my own. That's a good thing

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Speaker 2: to do. I did the same thing with Billy Graham,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I had the opportunity to spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time with him, because as he was ending

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Speaker 2: his crusade ministry, I was beginning mine, and so he

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Speaker 2: wanted to sort of freshen his messages with illustrations that

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Speaker 2: were more relevant to the culture of that day. And

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Speaker 2: so I started writing illustrations for Billy's sermons. I spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time I'm with him, traveling with him,

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Speaker 2: and I constantly was asking him questions and I just

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Speaker 2: sat on that stage and I analyzed everything that he did.

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Speaker 2: You know, he gave the message, I watched him pray,

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Speaker 2: I watched him come back and give a second or

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Speaker 2: third appeal. I was with him after it was over with.

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Speaker 2: I was there when he was going in and I

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Speaker 2: once asked him, what are you feeling when you're giving

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Speaker 2: an invitation? And as response was, I feel like power

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Speaker 2: is going out of me. And I understood that because

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Speaker 2: you know, what's a really blessed moment for people in

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Speaker 2: the stadium or arena or wherever you're having your event

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Speaker 2: is a moment of battle for the preacher because you're

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Speaker 2: literally in the epicenter of the spiritual battle. The devil's

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Speaker 2: attacking you, but the Holy Spirit is at work. And

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Speaker 2: I think people don't realize that, and that's why they

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Speaker 2: really need to pray for the preacher, you know, because

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Speaker 2: I've had people say, well, it must be really gratifying

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Speaker 2: egotistically to stand up in front of all those people

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Speaker 2: and preach. I would say, it's the opposite, because I

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Speaker 2: feel a great responsibility to get it right, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like, I don't you know, this may be the

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Speaker 2: one time that person comes to an event like this

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Speaker 2: to hear the gospel. I just I'll say, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to blow it. And so I feel a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure to do it right and a lot of

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Speaker 2: responsibility to get it right as well.

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Speaker 3: So I was here this past Sunday and when we

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Speaker 3: talked for a bit, and I met a guy named

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Speaker 3: Larry who who attends here has come to know Jesus

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Speaker 3: a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: And is he an older guy? Yeah, yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: that's Larry, Yeah, eighty eight years old.

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Speaker 3: He is so fired up for evangelism. He has made

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Speaker 3: it his personal mission to bring every human being he

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Speaker 3: comes to contact with to bring them to hear the gospel.

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Speaker 3: And I see that as a direct result not only

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Speaker 3: of his conversion personal testimony, but being part of this culture.

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Speaker 3: And you know, sitting in the service on Sunday, and

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Speaker 3: I think it was your children's pastor who came out

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, we did VBS this week. Two hundred

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Speaker 3: kids made a profession of faith. So can you talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit about it? And I know you mentioned

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Speaker 3: it about creating a culture. How does a pastor and

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Speaker 3: I know this might be a little difficult because you

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Speaker 3: do have such a strong gift of evangelism, But how

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Speaker 3: does a pastor create an evangelistic culture when he doesn't

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Speaker 3: see himself as an evangelist?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you know, here's the genius of Chuck Smith.

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Speaker 2: Chuck Smith wanted to be an evangelist, and God called

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Speaker 2: him to be a pastor, and so he found other

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Speaker 2: people who were gifted at evangelism and empowered them. It

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Speaker 2: started with Lonnie Frisbee. So if you saw the Jesus

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Speaker 2: Revolution film, here's Lonnie, who couldn't be more different than Chuck,

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Speaker 2: but an electric personality, a clear gift of evangelist. He

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Speaker 2: was the guy who was preaching when I accepted Christ

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Speaker 2: on my high school campus. So Chuck gave a platform

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Speaker 2: to Lonnie, and the two of them together were like

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Speaker 2: Nitro meeting glycerin. You know, we kind of came for

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Speaker 2: Lonnie and we stayed for Chuck. So I would say,

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Speaker 2: if you're a pastor and you don't feel you have

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Speaker 2: the gift of the evangelist, fine, you still should evangelize,

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Speaker 2: You still should give invitations in your messages, but try

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Speaker 2: to find someone who is gifted in that way and

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Speaker 2: help him. And by the way, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: gifted evangelists that are not preachers. Like take Larry as

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Speaker 2: an example. Larry runs a luxury eyewear store and so

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Speaker 2: he comes into contact with very affluent people that buy

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Speaker 2: his product. He uses his platform to talk about his faith.

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Speaker 2: I would say Larry is an evangelist. He doesn't preach

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Speaker 2: from a pulpit. He preaches from behind a counter filled

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Speaker 2: with sunglasses and other things. But he uses his position,

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Speaker 2: his platform to do that. And so some of the

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Speaker 2: best evangelists that I've met are just good at one

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Speaker 2: on one preaching. There are people that I've met that

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Speaker 2: do it far better than I do one on one,

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Speaker 2: you know, because they have a natural way of talking

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Speaker 2: to people. So it's not just people preaching from a pulpit.

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Speaker 2: Evangelism is just sharing your faith in whatever place you

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Speaker 2: do that well, you know, I mean coming back to Philip,

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Speaker 2: we see Philip sharing the Gospel with the men from Ethiopia.

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Speaker 2: That's one on one, and so we have that form

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Speaker 2: of evangelism. Then we appear in the da Pentecost one

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Speaker 2: guy speaking to thousands, because sometimes people build a false dichotomy.

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Speaker 2: In other words, they say, well, I'm not into mess evangelism. Well,

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Speaker 2: God's into mess evangelism. What do you call the da pentecost,

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Speaker 2: I'm into personal evangelism. Well I'm into that too. God's

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Speaker 2: in the pot. God wants both. And if there's one

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Speaker 2: thing that makes God happy, it's when people come into

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Speaker 2: the kingdom. Because Jesus said, I say to you, there's

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Speaker 2: joy in the presence of the angels over one sinner

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Speaker 2: that comes to repentance. And you know, Jesus was in

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Speaker 2: Luke fifteen. He talks about a woman who lost to coin.

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Speaker 2: He talks about a shepherd who lost the sheep, and

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Speaker 2: he talks about a father who lost a son. And

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Speaker 2: the reoccurring theme that he comes back to over and

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Speaker 2: over in those parables is and I say to you,

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Speaker 2: there is joy in the presence of the angels over

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Speaker 2: one sinner that comes to repentance. So it's just showing

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Speaker 2: the joy of heaven and the pleasure it brings God

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Speaker 2: when we win people to Christ. The Bible says he

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Speaker 2: that wins souls is wise, and so I believe it is.

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Speaker 2: Bob life giving not only for the person who's coming

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Speaker 2: to Christ, but it's life giving for the person that

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Speaker 2: is sharing Christ. Because the Bible says, given, it shall

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Speaker 2: be given unto you, pressed down, shaking together, running over

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Speaker 2: the same measure you give, it will be measured back

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Speaker 2: to you. And proverb says the generous soul will be

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Speaker 2: made fat, which is sort of a King James version

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Speaker 2: of just saying when you give out it, it's going

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Speaker 2: to replenish you too. And that's the important thing. It's

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Speaker 2: a blessing for us to do it. And then the

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Speaker 2: other thing I would say is celebrate evangelism. So, like

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Speaker 2: you mentioned that at church, our youth pastor talked about

428
00:24:23,445 --> 00:24:26,404
Speaker 2: all the people that came to Christ. We celebrate conversion.

429
00:24:26,725 --> 00:24:29,644
Speaker 2: We also showed a video that day that we played

430
00:24:29,685 --> 00:24:33,604
Speaker 2: right before the offering and we shared with the folks.

431
00:24:33,844 --> 00:24:35,965
Speaker 2: You know, when you give it harvest, this is one

432
00:24:35,965 --> 00:24:38,805
Speaker 2: of the things we do. And so we were always

433
00:24:38,844 --> 00:24:43,124
Speaker 2: celebrating stories of people coming to Christ. That's how you

434
00:24:43,165 --> 00:24:44,844
Speaker 2: create an evangelistic culture.

435
00:24:45,165 --> 00:24:47,084
Speaker 3: I want to shift a little bit and talk about

436
00:24:47,205 --> 00:24:51,445
Speaker 3: evangelism as it relates to preaching. Yeah, you have given

437
00:24:53,324 --> 00:24:58,525
Speaker 3: sermons that include evangelism and you've given evangelistic sermons, Can

438
00:24:58,564 --> 00:25:03,484
Speaker 3: you talk about the difference in your preparation to do both.

439
00:25:03,725 --> 00:25:07,244
Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually, there's a very big difference. It's between a

440
00:25:07,405 --> 00:25:13,084
Speaker 2: message on a text and even but my evangelistic messages

441
00:25:13,084 --> 00:25:15,725
Speaker 2: are based on the text too. But there's a difference. Okay,

442
00:25:15,764 --> 00:25:21,044
Speaker 2: here's the mean difference simplified. In an evangelistic message, I'm

443
00:25:21,084 --> 00:25:24,685
Speaker 2: preaching for a decision from the beginning to the end.

444
00:25:25,125 --> 00:25:27,404
Speaker 2: I'm going to challenge people to come to Christ. In

445
00:25:27,445 --> 00:25:31,964
Speaker 2: a message an exposition, I want to develop what the

446
00:25:32,004 --> 00:25:35,965
Speaker 2: text is saying, you know, I want to understand it culturally,

447
00:25:36,564 --> 00:25:41,924
Speaker 2: original languages, in context of course, and then apply it.

448
00:25:41,965 --> 00:25:44,324
Speaker 2: I think we're too quick to want to hit the application.

449
00:25:44,804 --> 00:25:48,085
Speaker 2: Make sure you're understanding it in context. So I do

450
00:25:48,165 --> 00:25:50,564
Speaker 2: all of that and then I apply it to the listener.

451
00:25:50,604 --> 00:25:53,205
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm wanting to encourage people, regular people

452
00:25:53,524 --> 00:25:57,884
Speaker 2: and their Christian life. The housewife, the businessman, the young person,

453
00:25:58,165 --> 00:26:01,564
Speaker 2: the older person. How does this apply to you? But

454
00:26:01,645 --> 00:26:03,925
Speaker 2: I'm also going to think about the non believer that's

455
00:26:04,004 --> 00:26:06,604
Speaker 2: present and have something for them as well. But I

456
00:26:06,604 --> 00:26:10,244
Speaker 2: can't sit around every Sunday and evangelized Christians, you know,

457
00:26:10,244 --> 00:26:12,804
Speaker 2: because my job as pastor. It's like two cats. My

458
00:26:12,925 --> 00:26:15,844
Speaker 2: job as pastor is to feed the flock of God

459
00:26:16,125 --> 00:26:18,685
Speaker 2: and equip the saints to the work of ministry. That's

460
00:26:18,725 --> 00:26:25,085
Speaker 2: what I'm Ephesians for says, God has raised up apostles, prophets, pastor, teachers,

461
00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:28,804
Speaker 2: evangelists for the work of the ministry, for the equipping

462
00:26:29,205 --> 00:26:31,405
Speaker 2: of the church. So I'm there to quit them and

463
00:26:31,524 --> 00:26:35,365
Speaker 2: to feed the flock of God. Now, in evangelism, I'm

464
00:26:35,365 --> 00:26:39,844
Speaker 2: a herald. I'm proclaiming a message, and as they said,

465
00:26:39,844 --> 00:26:42,524
Speaker 2: I'm preaching for a decision, and believe it or not,

466
00:26:42,725 --> 00:26:46,084
Speaker 2: it's a lot more work to write an evangelistic message

467
00:26:46,205 --> 00:26:49,124
Speaker 2: because I write it and I start whittling it down

468
00:26:49,645 --> 00:26:53,484
Speaker 2: in simplifying it. And then the funny thing is, even

469
00:26:53,484 --> 00:26:58,164
Speaker 2: when i'm preaching, I'm editing on the fly, and it

470
00:26:58,205 --> 00:27:00,684
Speaker 2: takes me a lot more time to write those messages.

471
00:27:00,885 --> 00:27:03,925
Speaker 2: And I've had people comment on how utterly simple they are.

472
00:27:04,205 --> 00:27:07,764
Speaker 2: Almost I wouldn't say, but like, why did all those

473
00:27:07,804 --> 00:27:11,924
Speaker 2: people come forward? Because it seems so simple, And I

474
00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:14,725
Speaker 2: think what they may not understand is that's the idea.

475
00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:19,284
Speaker 2: Back to Billy's statement, I study to be simple. That's

476
00:27:20,244 --> 00:27:23,244
Speaker 2: That's the key is I have to make it understandable.

477
00:27:23,804 --> 00:27:27,645
Speaker 2: So I start from a completely different premise in writing

478
00:27:27,725 --> 00:27:32,405
Speaker 2: an evangelistic message, and they're more work and I never

479
00:27:32,524 --> 00:27:36,404
Speaker 2: know quite how they'll turn out. But I mean I

480
00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:38,564
Speaker 2: could just get up and share the Gospel very simply

481
00:27:38,604 --> 00:27:43,164
Speaker 2: without any preparation. But in these messages in particular, I

482
00:27:43,244 --> 00:27:47,205
Speaker 2: work on them more than I do a regular teaching.

483
00:27:47,324 --> 00:27:49,165
Speaker 2: But I spend a lot of time in that too.

484
00:27:49,604 --> 00:27:52,604
Speaker 2: But I love it, you know, of all the things

485
00:27:52,604 --> 00:27:57,605
Speaker 2: that I do, I love to study right and deliver sermons.

486
00:27:57,725 --> 00:27:58,285
Speaker 1: I love it.

487
00:27:58,725 --> 00:28:01,605
Speaker 2: I love it more now than I have ever loved it.

488
00:28:02,205 --> 00:28:06,445
Speaker 2: You know, other things that come maybe if a church grows, administrating,

489
00:28:07,165 --> 00:28:09,725
Speaker 2: you know, taking care of all the other elements that

490
00:28:09,804 --> 00:28:11,684
Speaker 2: you need to take care of. Those are not my

491
00:28:11,764 --> 00:28:16,725
Speaker 2: favorite parts, you know. I still just love the challenge

492
00:28:16,764 --> 00:28:19,084
Speaker 2: of even coming to a text maybe I haven't preached

493
00:28:19,084 --> 00:28:22,885
Speaker 2: on before and seeing it come together. That's a blessing

494
00:28:22,965 --> 00:28:25,764
Speaker 2: to me because I'm fed and I'm blessed as I'm

495
00:28:25,764 --> 00:28:27,924
Speaker 2: preparing it. And I hope that that passes on and

496
00:28:27,965 --> 00:28:28,884
Speaker 2: blesses people do.

497
00:28:29,524 --> 00:28:32,484
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree with that, it seems to me.

498
00:28:32,524 --> 00:28:35,364
Speaker 3: And once again I've been a student of your sermons forever.

499
00:28:35,524 --> 00:28:37,404
Speaker 3: I mean, I've been pastoring for twenty five years, and

500
00:28:37,885 --> 00:28:40,604
Speaker 3: I don't think that there's any text that I teach

501
00:28:41,045 --> 00:28:42,844
Speaker 3: that I don't check to see if you've taught it,

502
00:28:43,325 --> 00:28:45,844
Speaker 3: and I want to hear how you've done it. But

503
00:28:45,965 --> 00:28:48,765
Speaker 3: there seems to be a moment. There's two things that

504
00:28:48,805 --> 00:28:52,205
Speaker 3: I've noticed in your messages, and this is where I

505
00:28:52,245 --> 00:28:55,685
Speaker 3: want to know if it's you know, strategic or intuitive.

506
00:28:56,045 --> 00:28:59,805
Speaker 3: But there's a moment where you're teaching as just a

507
00:28:59,805 --> 00:29:02,365
Speaker 3: normal senior pastor would teach through a text. But there's

508
00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:05,005
Speaker 3: a moment that you stop teaching and you start preaching.

509
00:29:05,844 --> 00:29:08,285
Speaker 3: And then there's the other thing I've noticed is is

510
00:29:08,325 --> 00:29:10,445
Speaker 3: that and even on Sunday you were talking about being

511
00:29:10,485 --> 00:29:13,445
Speaker 3: salt and light about and you spoke as this is

512
00:29:13,485 --> 00:29:16,645
Speaker 3: what we need to do as believers, this is as Christians,

513
00:29:16,685 --> 00:29:18,685
Speaker 3: this is what our call is. But then when you start,

514
00:29:18,765 --> 00:29:22,685
Speaker 3: you kind of made a move. You transition to the invitation,

515
00:29:22,844 --> 00:29:25,205
Speaker 3: and that is kind of the the Okay, the teaching

516
00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:28,405
Speaker 3: portion is done. Now I'm preaching where it got very personal.

517
00:29:28,525 --> 00:29:31,645
Speaker 3: If you were not speaking in generalities, you were speaking

518
00:29:31,685 --> 00:29:34,805
Speaker 3: to the individual, and so can you talk about that

519
00:29:34,844 --> 00:29:36,884
Speaker 3: a little bit. Is that like a strategic thing or

520
00:29:36,925 --> 00:29:40,124
Speaker 3: is that just intuitive or is something else?

521
00:29:40,245 --> 00:29:43,005
Speaker 2: A little of both, but it is very intentional. And

522
00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:46,965
Speaker 2: so when I'm writing a message, I always think, when

523
00:29:46,965 --> 00:29:49,245
Speaker 2: I get to the end, I want to have something

524
00:29:49,285 --> 00:29:53,404
Speaker 2: a non believer can understand. So I write something just

525
00:29:53,525 --> 00:29:57,205
Speaker 2: for them, and I do make it personal, because it's

526
00:29:57,205 --> 00:30:00,805
Speaker 2: interesting when you ask people who come to christ in

527
00:30:00,844 --> 00:30:04,565
Speaker 2: your service says what got your attention? Well, it's when

528
00:30:04,604 --> 00:30:08,364
Speaker 2: you told this story, you said this one thing. You know,

529
00:30:08,445 --> 00:30:11,644
Speaker 2: you have to not assume coming back to something I

530
00:30:11,645 --> 00:30:15,924
Speaker 2: said earlier, not assume they understand what you've been saying.

531
00:30:15,965 --> 00:30:19,005
Speaker 2: So I think that even as a nunbeliever, you come

532
00:30:19,045 --> 00:30:22,765
Speaker 2: to church and you're listening and whatever the topic is,

533
00:30:22,805 --> 00:30:26,685
Speaker 2: it's interesting because you're hearing a Christian worldview. You're hearing

534
00:30:26,725 --> 00:30:29,924
Speaker 2: someone that believes in the book. You're hearing someone that

535
00:30:30,725 --> 00:30:34,404
Speaker 2: puts the authority of scripture above their own. You're hearing

536
00:30:34,445 --> 00:30:36,685
Speaker 2: how it works in real life. But you don't really

537
00:30:36,765 --> 00:30:40,965
Speaker 2: know how that applies to you necessarily, but you're interested,

538
00:30:41,445 --> 00:30:44,325
Speaker 2: maybe you're drawn to it, maybe you like what you're seeing.

539
00:30:45,365 --> 00:30:47,644
Speaker 2: But I now I have to make it real to

540
00:30:47,765 --> 00:30:51,085
Speaker 2: that person. And I think our people know that I'm

541
00:30:51,125 --> 00:30:54,364
Speaker 2: going to do that, and they want me to do that.

542
00:30:55,205 --> 00:30:57,204
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to change it, and I'm gonna make

543
00:30:57,245 --> 00:30:59,644
Speaker 2: it personal, and I'm going to apply it to a

544
00:30:59,685 --> 00:31:02,844
Speaker 2: person who's never heard it before. I'm not going to

545
00:31:02,925 --> 00:31:05,805
Speaker 2: assume they understand anything that I've said prior to that,

546
00:31:06,525 --> 00:31:10,005
Speaker 2: and it's going to be personal. So that is very intentional.

547
00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:12,725
Speaker 2: But then I do believe the Holy Spirit will lead you.

548
00:31:13,084 --> 00:31:16,404
Speaker 2: And I found myself saying things like, there might be

549
00:31:16,445 --> 00:31:21,845
Speaker 2: a person here today that recently was so despondent they

550
00:31:21,844 --> 00:31:24,565
Speaker 2: thought of taking their own life. I'm not basing that

551
00:31:24,645 --> 00:31:27,684
Speaker 2: on anything. In fact, if people do tell me stories

552
00:31:27,685 --> 00:31:30,325
Speaker 2: about people they brought to church, I would never use

553
00:31:30,365 --> 00:31:32,485
Speaker 2: what they told me in a sermon because they never

554
00:31:32,565 --> 00:31:34,884
Speaker 2: make it personal. I've had people say, you were staring

555
00:31:34,925 --> 00:31:37,325
Speaker 2: at me the whole time. I don't stare at anybody.

556
00:31:38,205 --> 00:31:39,925
Speaker 2: I'm kind of looking at them, but in a way

557
00:31:40,045 --> 00:31:42,445
Speaker 2: I'm looking past them a little because I'm thinking, you know,

558
00:31:42,965 --> 00:31:45,404
Speaker 2: but I do believe the Lord will We'll give me

559
00:31:45,525 --> 00:31:52,045
Speaker 2: little illustrations that sometimes sometimes are literally describing a person's situation.

560
00:31:52,844 --> 00:31:55,245
Speaker 2: And I've had people say that to me, and I

561
00:31:55,285 --> 00:31:57,725
Speaker 2: think of sermons I've heard where I'm listening to a

562
00:31:57,805 --> 00:32:01,645
Speaker 2: podcast that was recorded when ten years ago, and yet

563
00:32:01,685 --> 00:32:05,204
Speaker 2: it speaks personally to me, as though it was written

564
00:32:05,205 --> 00:32:08,645
Speaker 2: from me. I believe the Holy Spirit directed that preacher

565
00:32:08,844 --> 00:32:11,884
Speaker 2: when he gave that many years ago, to yes, be

566
00:32:12,005 --> 00:32:14,685
Speaker 2: relevant to the people he was speaking to, but knowing

567
00:32:14,725 --> 00:32:17,925
Speaker 2: it would eventually reach me down the road and others.

568
00:32:18,325 --> 00:32:20,684
Speaker 2: That's what the Lord can do. So I try to

569
00:32:20,685 --> 00:32:25,364
Speaker 2: stay really open. That's where the spontaneity comes in. But

570
00:32:25,485 --> 00:32:28,765
Speaker 2: the other part, I will structure it where yes, I'm

571
00:32:28,805 --> 00:32:31,884
Speaker 2: shifting gears and I'm aiming it toward the numb believer.

572
00:32:33,365 --> 00:32:35,565
Speaker 3: So one of the things that I think we do

573
00:32:35,765 --> 00:32:38,245
Speaker 3: as preachers, I know I do this not because I

574
00:32:38,285 --> 00:32:40,285
Speaker 3: want to, but because it's just what I do. We

575
00:32:40,325 --> 00:32:44,005
Speaker 3: don't just listen to preachers. We listen at preachers. So

576
00:32:44,245 --> 00:32:47,205
Speaker 3: we're we're listening and we're like, oh, that was good.

577
00:32:47,805 --> 00:32:50,085
Speaker 3: Oh maybe I do that differently. Oh that's way better

578
00:32:50,084 --> 00:32:53,164
Speaker 3: than I would do it. And so I was sitting

579
00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:56,325
Speaker 3: I was listening to your message on Sunday, and I

580
00:32:56,445 --> 00:32:59,084
Speaker 3: was thinking myself, I want to see how he makes

581
00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:04,124
Speaker 3: the transition to the evangelistic component of the message, and

582
00:33:04,805 --> 00:33:10,525
Speaker 3: I just got so into the message I totally forgot

583
00:33:11,405 --> 00:33:14,084
Speaker 3: uh that I was waiting for that. And then we

584
00:33:14,245 --> 00:33:16,325
Speaker 3: got to the invitation, I'm like, oh, I missed it,

585
00:33:16,765 --> 00:33:19,645
Speaker 3: And so I re listened to the message last night,

586
00:33:20,125 --> 00:33:22,364
Speaker 3: and I'm like, because I have to ask this question.

587
00:33:22,445 --> 00:33:24,364
Speaker 3: And so I had to. I was listening to the

588
00:33:24,405 --> 00:33:27,765
Speaker 3: message before I went to bed last night, and when

589
00:33:27,805 --> 00:33:30,485
Speaker 3: the teaching component was coming to an end, you kind

590
00:33:30,525 --> 00:33:33,805
Speaker 3: of you bridged it with that Titanic story at the end,

591
00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:36,725
Speaker 3: that part where I don't know if it was the

592
00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:39,525
Speaker 3: helmsman or someone you know, shut up, shut up, I'm busy. Yeah,

593
00:33:39,565 --> 00:33:42,765
Speaker 3: And and that's where you made the turn and you said,

594
00:33:42,765 --> 00:33:44,684
Speaker 3: maybe you think that you're too busy for God. You

595
00:33:44,725 --> 00:33:47,525
Speaker 3: just started listening off things that people do when you

596
00:33:47,565 --> 00:33:50,685
Speaker 3: were And I remember when we talked before the service,

597
00:33:50,765 --> 00:33:53,684
Speaker 3: you said, oh, I'd watched this documentary. I'm really excited

598
00:33:53,685 --> 00:33:56,565
Speaker 3: about this, this this Titanic piece of you think I

599
00:33:56,604 --> 00:33:58,765
Speaker 3: know I could use it at the end. So can

600
00:33:58,805 --> 00:34:02,124
Speaker 3: you talk about some of the intentionality of making the

601
00:34:02,205 --> 00:34:04,844
Speaker 3: switch to say, hey, I need to I want this

602
00:34:04,885 --> 00:34:06,844
Speaker 3: to be a smooth landing and not a crash landing.

603
00:34:07,405 --> 00:34:11,285
Speaker 3: As we go into an evangelistic right portion, well.

604
00:34:11,165 --> 00:34:14,405
Speaker 2: The two most important The two most important moments of

605
00:34:14,485 --> 00:34:18,285
Speaker 2: flying when the danger is the highest is take off

606
00:34:18,285 --> 00:34:22,805
Speaker 2: and landing. The same is true of a sermon. We

607
00:34:22,885 --> 00:34:26,765
Speaker 2: should never be boring. And when a preacher is boring,

608
00:34:27,165 --> 00:34:29,725
Speaker 2: that to me is the worst thing you can do.

609
00:34:29,845 --> 00:34:33,765
Speaker 2: Maybe you should do something else, because there's nothing boring

610
00:34:33,805 --> 00:34:36,685
Speaker 2: about the word of God. There's nothing boring about the

611
00:34:36,725 --> 00:34:40,205
Speaker 2: message we're bringing. And I have seen people take the

612
00:34:40,285 --> 00:34:44,964
Speaker 2: action packed word of God and make it so dull.

613
00:34:45,245 --> 00:34:49,605
Speaker 2: Listening to them as like watching paint dry. It's like unbelievable.

614
00:34:50,325 --> 00:34:52,805
Speaker 2: So you I think when you begin a message, you

615
00:34:52,845 --> 00:34:56,325
Speaker 2: want to capture the attention of the audience. I often

616
00:34:56,405 --> 00:35:01,365
Speaker 2: start with an illustration or a joke sometimes or something

617
00:35:01,445 --> 00:35:03,725
Speaker 2: that will get them to WHOA, I want to hear

618
00:35:03,765 --> 00:35:07,925
Speaker 2: this right, that's take off, landing, That's very important. I've

619
00:35:07,965 --> 00:35:12,285
Speaker 2: seen messages fall apart at landing, especially when it comes

620
00:35:12,285 --> 00:35:15,605
Speaker 2: to an invitation. I think the biggest problem that pastors

621
00:35:15,645 --> 00:35:20,205
Speaker 2: have an evangelist that closes is not necessarily in content,

622
00:35:20,765 --> 00:35:24,165
Speaker 2: but it's actually in the clarity of what they're asking

623
00:35:24,285 --> 00:35:28,605
Speaker 2: people to do. So I find myself going over it

624
00:35:28,645 --> 00:35:32,125
Speaker 2: a few times. So I'll do something like this. Maybe

625
00:35:32,125 --> 00:35:34,444
Speaker 2: you've joined this today and you've never given your life

626
00:35:34,445 --> 00:35:37,405
Speaker 2: to Jesus Christ. In a moment, I'm going to give

627
00:35:37,405 --> 00:35:40,485
Speaker 2: you an opportunity to do that. So if you need

628
00:35:40,525 --> 00:35:42,845
Speaker 2: to ask Christ to come into your life, if you

629
00:35:42,845 --> 00:35:45,205
Speaker 2: want to have your sin forgiven, if you want to

630
00:35:45,285 --> 00:35:47,205
Speaker 2: know that when you die you will go to heaven,

631
00:35:47,765 --> 00:35:49,845
Speaker 2: if you want to fill that hole in your life,

632
00:35:50,445 --> 00:35:53,285
Speaker 2: respond to this invitation. I might eve going to repeat

633
00:35:53,325 --> 00:35:57,485
Speaker 2: that another time in a slightly different way. Then we pray.

634
00:35:57,965 --> 00:36:00,285
Speaker 2: Then I say, you know, if you want to ask

635
00:36:00,365 --> 00:36:03,405
Speaker 2: Christ in your life, pray this prayer or whatever it

636
00:36:03,485 --> 00:36:05,485
Speaker 2: is I do. Now, if I'm going to give an invitation,

637
00:36:06,485 --> 00:36:08,725
Speaker 2: this is where I have to really be clear. And

638
00:36:08,765 --> 00:36:11,404
Speaker 2: by invitation I mean ask them to come forward. I'll

639
00:36:11,445 --> 00:36:14,125
Speaker 2: say it like this. In a moment, I'm gonna ask

640
00:36:14,165 --> 00:36:16,245
Speaker 2: you to get up out of your seat, come out

641
00:36:16,285 --> 00:36:19,045
Speaker 2: into the aisle, and walk to the front and stand

642
00:36:19,085 --> 00:36:22,845
Speaker 2: here making your public professional faith. Why am I asking

643
00:36:22,885 --> 00:36:26,005
Speaker 2: you to do this because Jesus said, if you will

644
00:36:26,005 --> 00:36:28,725
Speaker 2: confess me before people, I will confess you before the

645
00:36:28,765 --> 00:36:31,525
Speaker 2: Father and the angels in heaven and if you deny

646
00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:34,965
Speaker 2: me before people, I'll deny you before the Father and

647
00:36:35,045 --> 00:36:36,844
Speaker 2: the Angel. So I'm gonna ask you to get up

648
00:36:37,005 --> 00:36:39,805
Speaker 2: and come forward in just a moment, and so I

649
00:36:39,885 --> 00:36:42,365
Speaker 2: might say something else, and then I'll come back and say,

650
00:36:42,565 --> 00:36:45,045
Speaker 2: so right now, if you raise your cant, even if

651
00:36:45,045 --> 00:36:47,605
Speaker 2: you did not during the last moment of prayer, get

652
00:36:47,645 --> 00:36:50,404
Speaker 2: up out of your seat, step into the aisle, walk

653
00:36:50,445 --> 00:36:53,005
Speaker 2: down to the front, and make your public step for Christ.

654
00:36:53,045 --> 00:36:55,645
Speaker 2: So I'm telling him, I'm telling them again, and I'm

655
00:36:55,645 --> 00:36:59,165
Speaker 2: telling them again. Here's what happens with some preachers. I'll say,

656
00:36:59,285 --> 00:37:00,924
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask you to get up and come forward,

657
00:37:00,965 --> 00:37:03,565
Speaker 2: So come forward. Now, the band comes out, start singing.

658
00:37:03,645 --> 00:37:06,245
Speaker 2: They don't know what you're telling them, and then thinking, wait,

659
00:37:06,285 --> 00:37:08,365
Speaker 2: did I hear it right? Does he want me to

660
00:37:08,405 --> 00:37:10,885
Speaker 2: walk up there? Or maybe that's not what he meant.

661
00:37:11,085 --> 00:37:15,005
Speaker 2: So everyone freezes. So sometimes it takes one person who

662
00:37:15,045 --> 00:37:19,125
Speaker 2: got it to walk forward. That's fine, and then it

663
00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:21,844
Speaker 2: will kind of I've had it where no one will

664
00:37:21,845 --> 00:37:25,965
Speaker 2: come forward, then one person will come, then two more

665
00:37:26,005 --> 00:37:29,364
Speaker 2: will come, and then they'll start flooding forward. And then

666
00:37:29,365 --> 00:37:32,285
Speaker 2: maybe sometimes in the middle of an invitation, I'll love

667
00:37:32,365 --> 00:37:36,125
Speaker 2: the band play a song, they break, maybe they're just

668
00:37:36,245 --> 00:37:38,925
Speaker 2: you know, strumming through it, and I'll say, in a moment,

669
00:37:39,005 --> 00:37:42,525
Speaker 2: the band's going to do this chorus one last time again.

670
00:37:43,085 --> 00:37:44,365
Speaker 1: Maybe you want.

671
00:37:44,245 --> 00:37:46,245
Speaker 2: Christ to come into your life, and I'll reiterate it

672
00:37:46,285 --> 00:37:49,445
Speaker 2: and invite them again. I certainly do this at the Crusade.

673
00:37:49,525 --> 00:37:52,725
Speaker 2: I might even do it four times in a crusade invitation,

674
00:37:53,245 --> 00:37:56,085
Speaker 2: because it does take longer for people to come down

675
00:37:56,125 --> 00:37:58,965
Speaker 2: in the field and make that profession of faith, depending

676
00:37:59,005 --> 00:38:02,365
Speaker 2: on on what venue were in. But in Angel Stadium

677
00:38:02,445 --> 00:38:05,005
Speaker 2: it takes quite a while, and I want to give

678
00:38:05,005 --> 00:38:07,965
Speaker 2: them the time to do that. So it's something that

679
00:38:08,485 --> 00:38:12,885
Speaker 2: it's the mechanics. Sometimes people don't understand what it is

680
00:38:13,005 --> 00:38:16,885
Speaker 2: you want them to do again. It's not about walking forward,

681
00:38:17,325 --> 00:38:20,245
Speaker 2: it's about making a profession of faith. Because we don't

682
00:38:20,285 --> 00:38:22,045
Speaker 2: know how they did it. In the Book of Acts,

683
00:38:22,245 --> 00:38:26,805
Speaker 2: we just read three thousand believe. Wait, how was Peter

684
00:38:26,925 --> 00:38:29,085
Speaker 2: strumming a guitar in the background or what?

685
00:38:29,125 --> 00:38:29,605
Speaker 1: Would you know?

686
00:38:29,725 --> 00:38:32,885
Speaker 2: Probably not, obviously we don't know the mechanism of it,

687
00:38:33,205 --> 00:38:35,844
Speaker 2: but we know it happened, and we know they counted them.

688
00:38:36,165 --> 00:38:39,005
Speaker 2: Because sometimes people say, well, I'm not in the numbers.

689
00:38:39,725 --> 00:38:42,325
Speaker 2: People that say they're not in the numbers are people

690
00:38:42,325 --> 00:38:45,765
Speaker 2: that often have very low numbers. So they have to

691
00:38:45,845 --> 00:38:50,325
Speaker 2: develop a theology that justifies that. Sure, and I'm not

692
00:38:50,405 --> 00:38:54,845
Speaker 2: saying it's all about numbers, because whatever size of your flock,

693
00:38:55,325 --> 00:38:58,245
Speaker 2: you want to be a faithful shepherd of that flock.

694
00:38:59,005 --> 00:39:02,485
Speaker 2: Someone once asked the H. Spurgeon, while you preach to

695
00:39:02,525 --> 00:39:04,285
Speaker 2: a lot of people, I wish I'd preached to as

696
00:39:04,365 --> 00:39:07,285
Speaker 2: many people as you did. Spurgeon said, how many people

697
00:39:07,285 --> 00:39:11,245
Speaker 2: are in your congregation? The pastor said around one hundred.

698
00:39:11,765 --> 00:39:14,805
Speaker 2: Spurgeon said, I think that's enough people to give an

699
00:39:14,845 --> 00:39:17,884
Speaker 2: account of on the day of judgment. So, but now

700
00:39:17,925 --> 00:39:20,405
Speaker 2: coming back to what I was saying, you say you're

701
00:39:20,445 --> 00:39:24,205
Speaker 2: not in the numbers, Actually God is, because we do

702
00:39:24,325 --> 00:39:27,645
Speaker 2: read three thousand believes, five thousand belief. Coming back to

703
00:39:27,645 --> 00:39:32,525
Speaker 2: Paul and Marseill, A handful believe. That's important too, because oh,

704
00:39:32,605 --> 00:39:36,205
Speaker 2: here's the great apostle, Paul, one of the greatest orators

705
00:39:36,245 --> 00:39:39,285
Speaker 2: of his time. I handful believe and they named them.

706
00:39:39,405 --> 00:39:41,525
Speaker 2: It was such a small group. They give the names

707
00:39:41,565 --> 00:39:45,085
Speaker 2: of the people that believe, and so so that means

708
00:39:45,125 --> 00:39:48,765
Speaker 2: Paul failed. Right, No, because God will not judge us

709
00:39:49,445 --> 00:39:54,485
Speaker 2: for success in quotes, but for faithfulness. My job, your job,

710
00:39:54,605 --> 00:39:57,885
Speaker 2: our job as preachers is to proclaim the Gospel and

711
00:39:58,005 --> 00:40:01,365
Speaker 2: leave the results in the hands of God. You know,

712
00:40:01,445 --> 00:40:06,444
Speaker 2: it's his harvest, it's his work. Jesus said those will

713
00:40:06,525 --> 00:40:09,925
Speaker 2: come or called by the Father, you know that. I

714
00:40:10,085 --> 00:40:11,965
Speaker 2: like that verse in the Book of Backs that says,

715
00:40:12,085 --> 00:40:17,045
Speaker 2: as many as were ordained undo eternal life believed, and

716
00:40:17,085 --> 00:40:19,525
Speaker 2: so it's in the hands of God ultimately. But I

717
00:40:19,525 --> 00:40:22,565
Speaker 2: want to make sure I do my job, make it clear,

718
00:40:22,925 --> 00:40:27,645
Speaker 2: make it understandable, and give them the opportunity to respond

719
00:40:27,925 --> 00:40:30,445
Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form.

720
00:40:30,605 --> 00:40:32,925
Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned Spurgeon a moment ago. One of the

721
00:40:32,925 --> 00:40:35,325
Speaker 3: things that he says in his book The Sole Winner,

722
00:40:35,805 --> 00:40:38,485
Speaker 3: is that it is the business of every Christian minister

723
00:40:38,845 --> 00:40:42,805
Speaker 3: to win souls for Christ. So why do you think

724
00:40:43,485 --> 00:40:48,565
Speaker 3: we see so little pulpit evangelism in particular in churches today.

725
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:49,884
Speaker 1: What do you think?

726
00:40:51,125 --> 00:40:54,805
Speaker 3: I think some of it might be a pastors feel

727
00:40:54,805 --> 00:40:58,045
Speaker 3: a lack of gifting. It could be I think some

728
00:40:58,125 --> 00:41:00,965
Speaker 3: of it is a lack of training. I think sometimes

729
00:41:01,005 --> 00:41:05,125
Speaker 3: there is a theology that it's like, Hey, if God

730
00:41:05,125 --> 00:41:06,485
Speaker 3: wants to reach them, he's going to reach them.

731
00:41:06,605 --> 00:41:09,964
Speaker 2: Yes, well, though those are all true, you know, coming

732
00:41:10,005 --> 00:41:12,245
Speaker 2: back to that statement in Acts, as many as were

733
00:41:12,405 --> 00:41:17,485
Speaker 2: ordained under eternal life. Believe I believe in predestination. The

734
00:41:17,565 --> 00:41:22,445
Speaker 2: Bible teaches predestination, but the Bible also teaches free will

735
00:41:23,045 --> 00:41:25,844
Speaker 2: and the need to appeal to people for.

736
00:41:25,845 --> 00:41:26,765
Speaker 1: God's love the world.

737
00:41:26,765 --> 00:41:30,085
Speaker 2: He gave his only begotten said whosoever believes in him

738
00:41:30,285 --> 00:41:33,285
Speaker 2: should not perish, but have everlasting life. God is not

739
00:41:33,325 --> 00:41:36,085
Speaker 2: willing that any should perish, but that all should come

740
00:41:36,085 --> 00:41:39,325
Speaker 2: to repentance. Now, I don't believe in what some call

741
00:41:39,525 --> 00:41:43,085
Speaker 2: double predestination, meaning God shows some people to go to

742
00:41:43,125 --> 00:41:45,485
Speaker 2: Heaven and God shows other people to go to Hell.

743
00:41:45,565 --> 00:41:48,565
Speaker 2: I don't believe that. So I do believe that God

744
00:41:48,605 --> 00:41:51,685
Speaker 2: shows us how he does that, what that's based on,

745
00:41:51,805 --> 00:41:54,245
Speaker 2: I don't have the answer to it, nor does anyone else.

746
00:41:54,805 --> 00:41:58,525
Speaker 2: So my job is to appeal to the person and

747
00:41:58,605 --> 00:42:00,925
Speaker 2: leave the results in the hands of God. So if

748
00:42:00,965 --> 00:42:04,325
Speaker 2: you have a theology that says, well, if they're predestined,

749
00:42:04,325 --> 00:42:06,725
Speaker 2: they'll believe you're miss I've seen that part that appeals

750
00:42:06,765 --> 00:42:09,125
Speaker 2: to the free will of man. I think of a said,

751
00:42:09,525 --> 00:42:13,165
Speaker 2: who was it? Was it spurgeon? Someone you know where

752
00:42:13,205 --> 00:42:17,325
Speaker 2: they said, how do you reconcile predestination and free will?

753
00:42:17,405 --> 00:42:21,005
Speaker 2: He says, I don't have to reconcile friends, right, so

754
00:42:21,325 --> 00:42:23,205
Speaker 2: we don't have to worry about that. That's in the

755
00:42:23,245 --> 00:42:27,565
Speaker 2: hands of God. Like dal Moody, the great evangelist once said, Lord,

756
00:42:27,645 --> 00:42:31,485
Speaker 2: save the elect and election more so, you know, I

757
00:42:31,525 --> 00:42:34,884
Speaker 2: think if you have a theology that says it's all

758
00:42:34,925 --> 00:42:37,205
Speaker 2: in the hands of God, you're missing the part where

759
00:42:37,245 --> 00:42:40,765
Speaker 2: you're called to appeal to people. But I would add

760
00:42:40,805 --> 00:42:42,725
Speaker 2: one other thing to your list, which I thought was

761
00:42:42,805 --> 00:42:46,364
Speaker 2: very good. I think it's a fear of failure. It's

762
00:42:46,405 --> 00:42:48,685
Speaker 2: a fear that you will say come to Jesus and

763
00:42:48,725 --> 00:42:51,445
Speaker 2: they won't come. And I have to be honest. You

764
00:42:51,565 --> 00:42:55,605
Speaker 2: may fail, But is it a failure because I've heard

765
00:42:55,685 --> 00:42:58,445
Speaker 2: stories that people like in our Crusades as an example,

766
00:42:58,645 --> 00:43:01,485
Speaker 2: who did not come forward in the invitation, but then

767
00:43:01,565 --> 00:43:04,125
Speaker 2: pray to accept Christ in the parking lot or a

768
00:43:04,245 --> 00:43:07,205
Speaker 2: day later or a week later. My job is to

769
00:43:07,325 --> 00:43:10,845
Speaker 2: sow the seed, like Paul says, one sows the seed,

770
00:43:11,445 --> 00:43:14,965
Speaker 2: another waters that God gives the increase. So I have

771
00:43:15,045 --> 00:43:18,085
Speaker 2: to do my job. So but the fear is I'm

772
00:43:18,125 --> 00:43:20,005
Speaker 2: going to say come forward and no one will come

773
00:43:20,045 --> 00:43:23,165
Speaker 2: forward again. That could happen. Frankly, it's not the end

774
00:43:23,165 --> 00:43:25,885
Speaker 2: of the world. Okay, you'll get over it. But what

775
00:43:25,925 --> 00:43:28,565
Speaker 2: if people do come forward? So if you want to

776
00:43:28,605 --> 00:43:31,725
Speaker 2: have success, you have to take risks and you have

777
00:43:31,805 --> 00:43:35,844
Speaker 2: to put yourself out there, and it is a risky thing.

778
00:43:35,925 --> 00:43:38,525
Speaker 2: But I would say, you know, you know, you need

779
00:43:38,565 --> 00:43:42,245
Speaker 2: to understand a proper theology on the topic. Like you

780
00:43:42,285 --> 00:43:45,445
Speaker 2: are saying I wrong theology can affect you. But just

781
00:43:46,045 --> 00:43:48,884
Speaker 2: be willing to take the risk for the kingdom of God.

782
00:43:48,965 --> 00:43:51,685
Speaker 2: Jesus said to Peter, throw your net on the other

783
00:43:51,765 --> 00:43:54,045
Speaker 2: side of the boat. Well, what would have happened if

784
00:43:54,085 --> 00:43:55,565
Speaker 2: he didn't throw his net on the other side of

785
00:43:55,605 --> 00:43:57,205
Speaker 2: the boat. I don't think he would have had to

786
00:43:57,245 --> 00:43:59,845
Speaker 2: catch up great fish. He had to do what Jesus

787
00:43:59,925 --> 00:44:02,245
Speaker 2: told him to do. We've got to throw our net

788
00:44:02,605 --> 00:44:04,805
Speaker 2: and pull it in and see what we pull in,

789
00:44:05,165 --> 00:44:07,205
Speaker 2: you know, and it maybe a lot, it may be

790
00:44:07,525 --> 00:44:09,925
Speaker 2: a little, it may be somewhere in the middle. The

791
00:44:09,965 --> 00:44:14,605
Speaker 2: results are in the hands of God. Success in evangelism

792
00:44:14,925 --> 00:44:18,885
Speaker 2: is faithfulness in giving the message. Though numbers do matter,

793
00:44:19,285 --> 00:44:20,805
Speaker 2: it's not all about numbers.

794
00:44:20,845 --> 00:44:21,125
Speaker 1: Sure.

795
00:44:21,805 --> 00:44:26,405
Speaker 3: One of the things that I've seen certainly experienced it here.

796
00:44:26,645 --> 00:44:29,605
Speaker 3: We see it at Harvest Crusades, and I think I

797
00:44:29,605 --> 00:44:33,165
Speaker 3: mean going back to Billy Graham, and you know, just

798
00:44:33,245 --> 00:44:35,805
Speaker 3: as I am. You know it was just in the

799
00:44:35,805 --> 00:44:37,565
Speaker 3: early days of the Harvest Crusades. It has come just

800
00:44:37,605 --> 00:44:41,485
Speaker 3: as you are. Can you talk about the importance of

801
00:44:41,805 --> 00:44:44,765
Speaker 3: music in evangelistic invitations?

802
00:44:44,885 --> 00:44:48,165
Speaker 1: Very good question. I think music is very important. Of course.

803
00:44:49,205 --> 00:44:54,925
Speaker 2: Dial Moody had his song leader, Iris Sinki, and he

804
00:44:55,045 --> 00:44:57,845
Speaker 2: had a song that I've never heard before called the

805
00:44:58,005 --> 00:45:02,685
Speaker 2: ninety and nine. Apparently when Sinki would sing this song,

806
00:45:03,325 --> 00:45:09,285
Speaker 2: something supernatural happened and it really moved people. Billy Graham

807
00:45:09,365 --> 00:45:12,125
Speaker 2: he had, just as I am. His worship leader was

808
00:45:12,125 --> 00:45:14,965
Speaker 2: Cliff Barrows. I've worked with a lot of people over

809
00:45:14,965 --> 00:45:18,045
Speaker 2: the years that have sung while people are coming forward.

810
00:45:18,445 --> 00:45:23,005
Speaker 2: I believe there can be power in music when it's

811
00:45:23,045 --> 00:45:27,285
Speaker 2: harnessed in the right way. Remember when King Saul was

812
00:45:27,325 --> 00:45:32,325
Speaker 2: tormented by a demon, David would come and play a

813
00:45:32,325 --> 00:45:36,005
Speaker 2: stringed instrument in sing songs of worship and sol would

814
00:45:36,045 --> 00:45:41,525
Speaker 2: find temporary relief. God created music. Now it's been hijacked

815
00:45:41,525 --> 00:45:45,485
Speaker 2: by our culture, our world, used for evil purposes, but

816
00:45:45,685 --> 00:45:49,205
Speaker 2: used properly, it can be really used by God. I

817
00:45:49,245 --> 00:45:51,965
Speaker 2: think it was Martin Luther who said, and he said

818
00:45:52,005 --> 00:45:55,005
Speaker 2: this to me personally, because I'm old none he said.

819
00:45:55,565 --> 00:45:59,605
Speaker 2: He said that worship is the handmaiden of theology. So

820
00:45:59,685 --> 00:46:01,885
Speaker 2: I think that would apply to art in general. I

821
00:46:01,885 --> 00:46:07,205
Speaker 2: would apply it to music, applied to movies, visual art, paintings, etc.

822
00:46:08,085 --> 00:46:11,645
Speaker 2: If it's subservient to the truth of scripture, it can

823
00:46:11,685 --> 00:46:13,885
Speaker 2: be powerful. When you go and visit a lot of

824
00:46:13,925 --> 00:46:18,045
Speaker 2: the churches in Europe and you see those amazing paintings,

825
00:46:18,405 --> 00:46:20,325
Speaker 2: that is all A lot of people were exposed to

826
00:46:20,365 --> 00:46:24,404
Speaker 2: the Gospel before the scripture was accessible. They would look

827
00:46:24,445 --> 00:46:27,005
Speaker 2: at images and they would see the story of the

828
00:46:27,045 --> 00:46:30,445
Speaker 2: crucifixion or the story of certain miracles. So there's a

829
00:46:30,485 --> 00:46:33,805
Speaker 2: place for all of that. Now the power is in

830
00:46:33,885 --> 00:46:37,445
Speaker 2: the preaching. So art needs to sort of submit itself

831
00:46:37,845 --> 00:46:43,245
Speaker 2: to the discipline of scripture. Handmaiden of theology, servant of theology,

832
00:46:43,325 --> 00:46:47,205
Speaker 2: we might say. So when music is used right, kind

833
00:46:47,245 --> 00:46:49,645
Speaker 2: of preparing the hearts. I think when you walk into

834
00:46:49,965 --> 00:46:53,805
Speaker 2: a gathering of thousands of believers singing worship songs, that's

835
00:46:53,845 --> 00:46:57,325
Speaker 2: pretty powerful because the world doesn't have anything like that.

836
00:46:57,685 --> 00:47:01,725
Speaker 2: When do people in the secondar culture even sing together anymore?

837
00:47:02,245 --> 00:47:04,605
Speaker 2: You know, it's pretty rare. I went to a Paul

838
00:47:04,645 --> 00:47:07,485
Speaker 2: McCartney concert while ago, and you know, when he was

839
00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:09,885
Speaker 2: singing let it Be, everyone was singing, and I thought,

840
00:47:10,085 --> 00:47:13,285
Speaker 2: this is kind of as close as this world gets

841
00:47:13,325 --> 00:47:16,125
Speaker 2: to a worship experience. But it's still not the same,

842
00:47:16,605 --> 00:47:19,805
Speaker 2: because the Bible says God inhabits the praises of his people,

843
00:47:20,925 --> 00:47:24,245
Speaker 2: and so for me personally, Bob. When I first was

844
00:47:24,285 --> 00:47:26,685
Speaker 2: exposed to the gospel on my high school campus, I

845
00:47:26,765 --> 00:47:29,685
Speaker 2: was walking across the campus and there was a group

846
00:47:29,725 --> 00:47:33,925
Speaker 2: of Christians sitting on the front lne singing songs about Jesus.

847
00:47:34,685 --> 00:47:39,125
Speaker 2: And I always dismissed them as crazy and stupid and foolish.

848
00:47:39,325 --> 00:47:41,525
Speaker 2: But the problem was I did know a few of

849
00:47:41,525 --> 00:47:44,085
Speaker 2: them previously, and I used to party with some of them,

850
00:47:44,365 --> 00:47:47,245
Speaker 2: and I knew they were intelligent people and they weren't

851
00:47:47,325 --> 00:47:51,845
Speaker 2: weird fanatical people. And I saw them singing as Christians,

852
00:47:51,925 --> 00:47:55,725
Speaker 2: and so I sat down and there was something about you.

853
00:47:55,885 --> 00:47:58,645
Speaker 2: And this was the simplest song, like three chords and

854
00:47:58,725 --> 00:48:02,885
Speaker 2: a guitar, nothing profound, But there was something about the

855
00:48:02,965 --> 00:48:06,485
Speaker 2: fact that people would sit in public and sing songs

856
00:48:07,045 --> 00:48:10,404
Speaker 2: about into Jesus. That kind of move me. I thought

857
00:48:10,445 --> 00:48:14,525
Speaker 2: that's interesting, you know, because I've never seen anything like that.

858
00:48:14,565 --> 00:48:18,165
Speaker 2: So that's music being harnessed and used for a good purpose.

859
00:48:18,245 --> 00:48:22,045
Speaker 2: So coming back to the crusade, you know, I'll I'll

860
00:48:22,045 --> 00:48:24,765
Speaker 2: say something like, in a moment, Phil Wickham is going

861
00:48:24,805 --> 00:48:27,965
Speaker 2: to sing this song, and if you want to come

862
00:48:28,005 --> 00:48:31,205
Speaker 2: to Christ, make this stand for him. Get up out

863
00:48:31,245 --> 00:48:33,005
Speaker 2: of your seat and come forward. And then I'll say

864
00:48:33,045 --> 00:48:35,525
Speaker 2: to Phil ahead of time, Phil, I need a break,

865
00:48:35,565 --> 00:48:37,605
Speaker 2: so I wait for a natural break in the song.

866
00:48:37,885 --> 00:48:40,165
Speaker 2: He'll sort of step back from the pulpit, maybe just

867
00:48:40,205 --> 00:48:43,365
Speaker 2: play the chords through, and I'll step step up to

868
00:48:43,405 --> 00:48:45,045
Speaker 2: the microphone give a second appeal.

869
00:48:45,285 --> 00:48:47,404
Speaker 1: I might do it a third and a fourth time.

870
00:48:47,445 --> 00:48:49,125
Speaker 2: So I will kind of work that out with an

871
00:48:49,645 --> 00:48:52,965
Speaker 2: artist or the worship leader ahead of time. But I

872
00:48:53,005 --> 00:48:56,445
Speaker 2: do believe God uses the music and when it's harnessed

873
00:48:57,285 --> 00:49:00,565
Speaker 2: in the proper way, it combined with the preaching of

874
00:49:00,565 --> 00:49:03,125
Speaker 2: the gospel, these can be powerful tools.

875
00:49:03,805 --> 00:49:06,685
Speaker 3: That's so good the handmaid of theology. I'd never heard

876
00:49:06,725 --> 00:49:08,965
Speaker 3: that quote before. Fantastic well.

877
00:49:09,045 --> 00:49:12,085
Speaker 2: I was having a conversation with Rick Rubin recently, so

878
00:49:12,245 --> 00:49:16,525
Speaker 2: Rick Rubin is, like many consider him the greatest producer

879
00:49:16,685 --> 00:49:20,245
Speaker 2: alive today. Rick Rubin was there, and you know, he

880
00:49:20,405 --> 00:49:23,005
Speaker 2: was with the Beastie Boys and with hard rock bands.

881
00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:27,965
Speaker 2: He brought Johnny Cash back to a new audience, you know,

882
00:49:28,005 --> 00:49:31,125
Speaker 2: when Johnny's career was waning. Rick went and heard him

883
00:49:31,165 --> 00:49:34,445
Speaker 2: in a small little theater he was playing in. Said, Johnny,

884
00:49:34,445 --> 00:49:37,085
Speaker 2: want to help you, you know. And Johnny said, what

885
00:49:37,085 --> 00:49:38,485
Speaker 2: are you going to do for me that no one

886
00:49:38,485 --> 00:49:40,605
Speaker 2: else has done? He says, I just want to hear

887
00:49:40,685 --> 00:49:43,405
Speaker 2: your songs. So we went into Rick's front room. They

888
00:49:43,445 --> 00:49:46,364
Speaker 2: set up some recording equipment and he just played his

889
00:49:46,365 --> 00:49:50,165
Speaker 2: favorite songs. And from those recordings, Rick, you know, brought

890
00:49:50,165 --> 00:49:52,645
Speaker 2: that music to a huge audience and Johnny had a

891
00:49:52,685 --> 00:49:55,445
Speaker 2: resurgence at the end of his career. So Rick is

892
00:49:55,485 --> 00:49:59,325
Speaker 2: this genius guy, and he had me on this podcast

893
00:49:59,525 --> 00:50:01,645
Speaker 2: and so Rick says, tell me about Christian music.

894
00:50:02,285 --> 00:50:02,965
Speaker 1: They said, okay.

895
00:50:03,565 --> 00:50:06,205
Speaker 2: So I told him about what I experienced the Jesus

896
00:50:06,205 --> 00:50:09,725
Speaker 2: Movement days and how the music often spoke to the audience.

897
00:50:09,805 --> 00:50:12,525
Speaker 2: I said, it didn't start out as an industry. It

898
00:50:12,645 --> 00:50:18,125
Speaker 2: started out as a message to visitors, like we would

899
00:50:18,125 --> 00:50:20,844
Speaker 2: tell them what we were experiencing. As an example, there

900
00:50:20,885 --> 00:50:23,965
Speaker 2: was a song back then by Ben called Love Song

901
00:50:24,045 --> 00:50:27,285
Speaker 2: and the lyrics where we're all gathered here because we

902
00:50:27,365 --> 00:50:30,005
Speaker 2: all believe. If there's a doubter or in the crowd,

903
00:50:30,045 --> 00:50:32,605
Speaker 2: we ask you not to leave. Give a listen to

904
00:50:32,685 --> 00:50:35,925
Speaker 2: the story, hear the message that we bring. Let the

905
00:50:36,045 --> 00:50:39,845
Speaker 2: faith swallop inside you, lift your voice with us and sing,

906
00:50:40,405 --> 00:50:43,125
Speaker 2: accept them with your whole heart, and use your own

907
00:50:43,165 --> 00:50:46,364
Speaker 2: two hands with one, reach out to Jesus with the other.

908
00:50:46,445 --> 00:50:47,445
Speaker 1: Bring a friend.

909
00:50:47,565 --> 00:50:49,925
Speaker 2: Well, what was so cool about that is we just

910
00:50:50,045 --> 00:50:53,924
Speaker 2: explained what we're doing to a visitor. So and I said,

911
00:50:53,925 --> 00:50:57,405
Speaker 2: you know, music today, Christian music doesn't do that like

912
00:50:57,485 --> 00:51:01,245
Speaker 2: it used to. And I've challenged my friends who are artists,

913
00:51:01,325 --> 00:51:05,285
Speaker 2: Christian artists, musicians to write songs more for the number.

914
00:51:06,485 --> 00:51:08,765
Speaker 2: A lot of our music today is wortshap And Rick's

915
00:51:08,765 --> 00:51:12,165
Speaker 2: observation was, it all sounds the same to me, and

916
00:51:12,245 --> 00:51:15,685
Speaker 2: it sounds too perfect. And I think they need to

917
00:51:15,765 --> 00:51:19,245
Speaker 2: talk more about the challenges and struggles of life. I said,

918
00:51:19,365 --> 00:51:22,765
Speaker 2: I agree with you. And so Rick, who was not

919
00:51:22,845 --> 00:51:28,005
Speaker 2: a part of Christian music but really knows music intuitively,

920
00:51:28,125 --> 00:51:32,125
Speaker 2: was understanding one of the problems, right now, and I

921
00:51:32,165 --> 00:51:34,565
Speaker 2: think it's something we need to do more of explain

922
00:51:34,725 --> 00:51:39,365
Speaker 2: what we believe to this secular culture. And music was

923
00:51:39,485 --> 00:51:42,765
Speaker 2: very different, you know when I was a kid, because

924
00:51:42,805 --> 00:51:46,765
Speaker 2: we actually looked to musicians as messengers foolishly. On my

925
00:51:46,885 --> 00:51:50,325
Speaker 2: add it was the blind leading the blind. We were

926
00:51:50,365 --> 00:51:55,085
Speaker 2: influenced by the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison

927
00:51:55,165 --> 00:51:57,485
Speaker 2: and the Doors and others. But the problem is, all

928
00:51:57,525 --> 00:52:00,765
Speaker 2: of our rock icons started dying on us, you know,

929
00:52:00,925 --> 00:52:04,924
Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendrix dead of a drug overdose, Jim Morrison dead

930
00:52:04,965 --> 00:52:09,725
Speaker 2: of a drug overdose, and on the list goes. So

931
00:52:10,005 --> 00:52:12,885
Speaker 2: but we were looking to these people to direct us

932
00:52:12,885 --> 00:52:14,765
Speaker 2: and guide us. I don't think people are looking to

933
00:52:14,885 --> 00:52:17,645
Speaker 2: music so much for that today, but I do believe

934
00:52:17,685 --> 00:52:20,605
Speaker 2: there's a place to use music as a way to

935
00:52:20,685 --> 00:52:23,925
Speaker 2: reach people that would not otherwise be reached. And so

936
00:52:24,405 --> 00:52:26,565
Speaker 2: I think we have sort of drifted a bit in

937
00:52:26,605 --> 00:52:29,844
Speaker 2: that way, but it can be a powerful tool. Again,

938
00:52:29,925 --> 00:52:32,445
Speaker 2: forgot your initial question, which was really good.

939
00:52:32,365 --> 00:52:35,725
Speaker 3: The role of music in invitations.

940
00:52:35,805 --> 00:52:36,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.

941
00:52:36,605 --> 00:52:39,525
Speaker 2: Well, that was my very long answer to that question.

942
00:52:40,405 --> 00:52:40,964
Speaker 1: That was great.

943
00:52:41,525 --> 00:52:45,565
Speaker 3: I've listened to some Rick Rubin podcasts obviously, in my

944
00:52:46,605 --> 00:52:50,565
Speaker 3: fifty two years of life, have purchased many albums that

945
00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:54,645
Speaker 3: Rick has produced. And the thing that I find interesting

946
00:52:54,645 --> 00:52:56,765
Speaker 3: about Rick, this has nothing to do about evangelism, but

947
00:52:56,885 --> 00:52:59,925
Speaker 3: just as a musician, he doesn't play any instruments, he

948
00:53:00,005 --> 00:53:03,725
Speaker 3: has no training in on the production side, and yet

949
00:53:03,845 --> 00:53:08,645
Speaker 3: he brings an intangible to music in the albums that

950
00:53:08,685 --> 00:53:12,685
Speaker 3: he has produced that bring out something original, even within

951
00:53:12,805 --> 00:53:16,245
Speaker 3: established bands that he's worked with. So that that is

952
00:53:16,285 --> 00:53:19,725
Speaker 3: such an interesting observation about Christian music from a guy

953
00:53:19,725 --> 00:53:21,485
Speaker 3: who isn't a Christian but is a lover of music.

954
00:53:21,685 --> 00:53:21,884
Speaker 1: Yeah.

955
00:53:21,925 --> 00:53:26,005
Speaker 2: And I would say Rick is very open spiritually. And

956
00:53:26,045 --> 00:53:28,925
Speaker 2: we had I did this podcast that we'll be coming

957
00:53:28,965 --> 00:53:32,485
Speaker 2: out soon with him. We talked for over two hours

958
00:53:33,045 --> 00:53:34,805
Speaker 2: and he said he would like to do another one,

959
00:53:35,005 --> 00:53:37,765
Speaker 2: and he had a lot of questions. Still, I think

960
00:53:37,805 --> 00:53:41,245
Speaker 2: that Rick is a real seeker of truth, and he

961
00:53:41,285 --> 00:53:46,685
Speaker 2: had excellent questions about the Gospel, about the Bible and

962
00:53:46,845 --> 00:53:50,525
Speaker 2: so but he also, you know, is coming at it

963
00:53:50,525 --> 00:53:51,844
Speaker 2: from a different perspective.

964
00:53:52,765 --> 00:53:57,165
Speaker 3: Do you feel like part of I think part of

965
00:53:57,165 --> 00:54:01,365
Speaker 3: what happens as pastors is we're like two steps removed

966
00:54:01,365 --> 00:54:04,965
Speaker 3: from reality. Many times we're around, we're on a church

967
00:54:05,005 --> 00:54:08,165
Speaker 3: staff with Christians all the time, and then we're at

968
00:54:08,245 --> 00:54:12,485
Speaker 3: church and it's mostly Christians and just you talking about

969
00:54:12,485 --> 00:54:15,245
Speaker 3: being Hey, I got interviewed by Rick Rubin. I'm guessing

970
00:54:15,325 --> 00:54:20,325
Speaker 3: that is your experience and evangelism. That and what the

971
00:54:20,365 --> 00:54:23,285
Speaker 3: Lord has done in your life evangelistically that led to

972
00:54:23,365 --> 00:54:27,965
Speaker 3: that opportunity. But do you feel like pastors need to

973
00:54:28,005 --> 00:54:30,325
Speaker 3: get out more? They just need to talk to you

974
00:54:30,405 --> 00:54:32,005
Speaker 3: got to talk to somebody who's not a Christian.

975
00:54:32,245 --> 00:54:33,965
Speaker 1: Yes, I do believe they should.

976
00:54:34,205 --> 00:54:37,165
Speaker 2: And you know, one way to do that is podcasting

977
00:54:37,765 --> 00:54:40,925
Speaker 2: is a great way to listen in on other people's conversations.

978
00:54:40,965 --> 00:54:43,525
Speaker 2: I want to know what people are thinking insane, I

979
00:54:43,565 --> 00:54:46,365
Speaker 2: want to know the questions are asking. The problem is

980
00:54:46,445 --> 00:54:51,045
Speaker 2: pastors are sometimes asking, they're answering questions. No one is asking,

981
00:54:51,725 --> 00:54:54,405
Speaker 2: and they're not answering the questions that are being asked.

982
00:54:55,125 --> 00:54:59,165
Speaker 2: You know, for years atheism was making sort of a comeback.

983
00:54:59,205 --> 00:55:03,245
Speaker 2: They called it the new atheism. That is, I wouldn't

984
00:55:03,245 --> 00:55:07,085
Speaker 2: say it's dead, but it's not on the rise. It's

985
00:55:07,125 --> 00:55:11,444
Speaker 2: a whole different time now. Now everybody's spiritual. People want

986
00:55:11,485 --> 00:55:15,605
Speaker 2: spiritual experience as they think they're having spiritual experiences and

987
00:55:15,645 --> 00:55:19,245
Speaker 2: indeed they are, but not necessarily with God. So we

988
00:55:19,325 --> 00:55:21,364
Speaker 2: have a different role. We have to help them sort

989
00:55:21,445 --> 00:55:24,485
Speaker 2: these things out and bring a biblical perspective. But I

990
00:55:24,525 --> 00:55:28,805
Speaker 2: did a long form podcast with Jordan Peterson and the

991
00:55:29,045 --> 00:55:32,645
Speaker 2: very intelligent man, and I admitted to him after we

992
00:55:32,645 --> 00:55:35,365
Speaker 2: were done, Jordan, there were times you were saying things

993
00:55:35,365 --> 00:55:39,325
Speaker 2: I didn't understand. I thought I probably shouldn't admit it,

994
00:55:39,365 --> 00:55:41,445
Speaker 2: but it is true. I didn't know what he meant

995
00:55:41,445 --> 00:55:45,445
Speaker 2: by certain terms. I just sort of nodded along. He's

996
00:55:45,485 --> 00:55:49,325
Speaker 2: a very kind man, very gentle man. And it's so

997
00:55:49,365 --> 00:55:52,005
Speaker 2: funny because after we were done, he said, do you

998
00:55:52,125 --> 00:55:54,245
Speaker 2: like music? And I said I love music. He goes,

999
00:55:54,525 --> 00:55:57,045
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to a honky talk we were

1000
00:55:57,045 --> 00:55:59,805
Speaker 2: in Nashville. I'm going to a honky tonk later and

1001
00:55:59,885 --> 00:56:02,565
Speaker 2: listening to music. Would you like to join us? And

1002
00:56:02,605 --> 00:56:05,005
Speaker 2: we said yes, and so we ended up sitting in

1003
00:56:05,045 --> 00:56:09,285
Speaker 2: this little honky tonk. Why a country western band was

1004
00:56:09,285 --> 00:56:13,445
Speaker 2: playing these old country type songs with Jordan Peterson. So

1005
00:56:13,485 --> 00:56:16,285
Speaker 2: it was cool because someone said to me, Jordan never

1006
00:56:16,365 --> 00:56:18,805
Speaker 2: asked his guest to go do anything with them socially,

1007
00:56:19,365 --> 00:56:21,445
Speaker 2: So you know, I think we may be a little

1008
00:56:21,445 --> 00:56:24,645
Speaker 2: bit of a connection there. But you know, be a

1009
00:56:24,685 --> 00:56:29,485
Speaker 2: friendly person, be interested in people, and listen to them.

1010
00:56:29,765 --> 00:56:33,884
Speaker 2: And my objective is not to win the argument, it's

1011
00:56:33,925 --> 00:56:36,845
Speaker 2: to win the soul. So when I'm talking to people,

1012
00:56:36,925 --> 00:56:39,725
Speaker 2: let me have a different worldview than I have. I

1013
00:56:39,765 --> 00:56:42,725
Speaker 2: won't interrupt them, i won't cut them off. When they

1014
00:56:42,765 --> 00:56:45,205
Speaker 2: say something I don't agree with, I'll hear them out,

1015
00:56:45,325 --> 00:56:48,725
Speaker 2: let him say it, then I'll give a response. Jesus

1016
00:56:48,765 --> 00:56:52,085
Speaker 2: with the woman at the Well is a perfect biblical example.

1017
00:56:52,605 --> 00:56:55,525
Speaker 2: You know, she's riffing talking about things she thinks and

1018
00:56:56,165 --> 00:56:59,165
Speaker 2: Jesus is listening, but then he draws on what she's

1019
00:56:59,165 --> 00:57:02,605
Speaker 2: saying and then applies truth to what she is saying

1020
00:57:02,725 --> 00:57:05,805
Speaker 2: as well. And I think that, you know, we want

1021
00:57:05,805 --> 00:57:09,765
Speaker 2: to be good listeners, we want to observe culture, and

1022
00:57:09,805 --> 00:57:13,845
Speaker 2: we want to have biblical answers to what people are thinking.

1023
00:57:14,245 --> 00:57:18,085
Speaker 2: And so as I passedor I try to just engage

1024
00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:21,845
Speaker 2: with and have relationships with people that are not believers

1025
00:57:22,645 --> 00:57:25,685
Speaker 2: and so I can know what they're dealing with. But

1026
00:57:25,765 --> 00:57:29,165
Speaker 2: I do find that that's the first step to helping

1027
00:57:29,205 --> 00:57:32,805
Speaker 2: them become believers. Some people you can reach very quickly.

1028
00:57:33,245 --> 00:57:37,085
Speaker 2: Others it takes years. Hey, my mother, it took decades

1029
00:57:37,125 --> 00:57:39,925
Speaker 2: to reach her. You know, people who saw the Jesus

1030
00:57:40,085 --> 00:57:43,485
Speaker 2: Revolution film asks did your mother ever become a Christian? Yes,

1031
00:57:43,565 --> 00:57:47,525
Speaker 2: she did, basically at the age of seventy, and tragically

1032
00:57:47,885 --> 00:57:51,205
Speaker 2: she died not long after that. So I prayed for

1033
00:57:51,245 --> 00:57:55,885
Speaker 2: her for decades. But yes, do have relationship with non believers.

1034
00:57:56,205 --> 00:57:59,405
Speaker 2: Be a friendly person, be a person that they want

1035
00:57:59,445 --> 00:58:03,365
Speaker 2: to talk to, and that's very important. Get out of

1036
00:58:03,405 --> 00:58:06,725
Speaker 2: your bubble. I was joking, you know, my last message

1037
00:58:06,765 --> 00:58:08,805
Speaker 2: about we want to live in a Christian bubble and

1038
00:58:08,845 --> 00:58:12,365
Speaker 2: we want to isolate you know. I remember my son Jonathan,

1039
00:58:12,485 --> 00:58:15,445
Speaker 2: was talking about his childhood and he said, it's funny.

1040
00:58:15,445 --> 00:58:18,485
Speaker 2: You know, all my friends are from Christian homes. And

1041
00:58:18,525 --> 00:58:21,125
Speaker 2: then he went to a Christian school and he said,

1042
00:58:21,245 --> 00:58:24,405
Speaker 2: and so they can only watch veggietails and they could

1043
00:58:24,445 --> 00:58:27,165
Speaker 2: only listen to Christian music, he said, but my dad

1044
00:58:27,605 --> 00:58:30,445
Speaker 2: would sit and watch The Simpsons with me, and on

1045
00:58:30,485 --> 00:58:32,765
Speaker 2: the way to school we would listen to Jimi Hendrix

1046
00:58:32,805 --> 00:58:35,645
Speaker 2: and the Beatles. And I thought of us listening weit

1047
00:58:35,685 --> 00:58:38,445
Speaker 2: did I do something wrong? But I think what I

1048
00:58:38,525 --> 00:58:41,765
Speaker 2: was wanting to do is say it's okay to appreciate

1049
00:58:41,845 --> 00:58:46,165
Speaker 2: good art, good music. Not that I think The Simpsons

1050
00:58:46,285 --> 00:58:48,485
Speaker 2: is good art, but he liked it. I found it

1051
00:58:48,525 --> 00:58:51,525
Speaker 2: a musing At times. I would watch it with him,

1052
00:58:51,645 --> 00:58:54,565
Speaker 2: and when I saw things that were wrong, I would

1053
00:58:54,565 --> 00:58:56,965
Speaker 2: explain it to him. I was trying to help Kim

1054
00:58:57,085 --> 00:59:00,605
Speaker 2: learn how to interpret culture and not just put him

1055
00:59:00,645 --> 00:59:02,645
Speaker 2: in a little bubble, because I think, you know, we

1056
00:59:02,685 --> 00:59:05,365
Speaker 2: can put a person in a bubble like Katy Perry.

1057
00:59:06,005 --> 00:59:09,525
Speaker 2: A well known artist out there used to be Katie Hudson,

1058
00:59:10,085 --> 00:59:12,725
Speaker 2: and she was a Christian singer. In fact, she played

1059
00:59:13,285 --> 00:59:16,485
Speaker 2: at some of the services we did in her early days.

1060
00:59:16,765 --> 00:59:19,365
Speaker 2: But she was raised by her own you know, she's

1061
00:59:19,445 --> 00:59:23,005
Speaker 2: talked about it publicly. In a very legalistic Christian home,

1062
00:59:23,525 --> 00:59:26,285
Speaker 2: her mother and father wouldn't let her listen to any

1063
00:59:26,365 --> 00:59:30,485
Speaker 2: second of music. She couldn't watch anything on television, and

1064
00:59:30,565 --> 00:59:32,965
Speaker 2: so they kept her in the bubble. So they came

1065
00:59:33,005 --> 00:59:37,085
Speaker 2: a point where Katie rebelled and went out to see

1066
00:59:37,325 --> 00:59:39,805
Speaker 2: what it was that she was being kept from. I'm

1067
00:59:39,805 --> 00:59:43,045
Speaker 2: not saying you should encourage your Christian kids to do

1068
00:59:43,125 --> 00:59:46,485
Speaker 2: things that are sinful. The very opposite is what I'm encouraging.

1069
00:59:46,925 --> 00:59:49,765
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is enter into their world, helped

1070
00:59:49,805 --> 00:59:53,405
Speaker 2: them to interpret it, interpret it and prepare them for

1071
00:59:53,445 --> 00:59:56,445
Speaker 2: it so they can live as a Christian. The most

1072
00:59:56,525 --> 00:59:59,925
Speaker 2: challenging time for kids is the time when when they're

1073
00:59:59,925 --> 01:00:02,365
Speaker 2: out of the house, you know, when they're home, going

1074
01:00:02,405 --> 01:00:05,765
Speaker 2: to elementary school and junior high in high schoo Well,

1075
01:00:05,805 --> 01:00:08,685
Speaker 2: we still have influenced when we send them up to college.

1076
01:00:08,685 --> 01:00:12,085
Speaker 2: We send our kids off to these secular universities where

1077
01:00:12,085 --> 01:00:16,725
Speaker 2: they're in ductrine eating kids into Marxism and anti Semitism

1078
01:00:17,125 --> 01:00:20,765
Speaker 2: and all this woke ideology today and it's like insane.

1079
01:00:21,285 --> 01:00:24,245
Speaker 2: So you know, our job is not done. But I

1080
01:00:24,325 --> 01:00:27,005
Speaker 2: kind of got off on another subject. But no, we've

1081
01:00:27,005 --> 01:00:29,325
Speaker 2: got to get out of our Christian bubble and we

1082
01:00:29,445 --> 01:00:31,485
Speaker 2: need to get out there and talk to real people

1083
01:00:31,485 --> 01:00:32,325
Speaker 2: in the real world.

1084
01:00:32,605 --> 01:00:35,005
Speaker 3: I appreciate the diversion. I feel like a great dad

1085
01:00:35,045 --> 01:00:39,325
Speaker 3: now because my kids are musicians and I expose them

1086
01:00:39,325 --> 01:00:42,525
Speaker 3: to all kinds of music and you know, obviously nothing

1087
01:00:42,565 --> 01:00:47,005
Speaker 3: that I would think is sinful. But and you know,

1088
01:00:47,045 --> 01:00:48,725
Speaker 3: same thing with television. I mean that's one of the

1089
01:00:48,765 --> 01:00:51,565
Speaker 3: things that you know, we love Doctor Who at our

1090
01:00:51,605 --> 01:00:53,405
Speaker 3: house and so but there's been moments where we've had

1091
01:00:53,405 --> 01:00:56,565
Speaker 3: to pause it and say, okay, what's the worldview that's

1092
01:00:56,605 --> 01:00:57,405
Speaker 3: being expressed here?

1093
01:00:57,725 --> 01:00:57,925
Speaker 2: Good?

1094
01:00:57,965 --> 01:00:58,445
Speaker 1: And these have.

1095
01:00:58,445 --> 01:01:04,245
Speaker 3: Become really teachable moments for our family. But you know

1096
01:01:04,285 --> 01:01:05,325
Speaker 3: we love vegietails too.

1097
01:01:05,725 --> 01:01:10,405
Speaker 2: I don't like veggietails, never did. I'm against animated characters

1098
01:01:10,485 --> 01:01:13,885
Speaker 2: without arms and legs. They just sort of floated around.

1099
01:01:15,685 --> 01:01:21,365
Speaker 3: Okay, So last question, how would you encourage a pastor

1100
01:01:21,605 --> 01:01:26,245
Speaker 3: to fan his evangelistic gift into flame?

1101
01:01:27,645 --> 01:01:31,645
Speaker 2: Yes, well, Paul said to Timothy Stirrup, the gift that

1102
01:01:31,805 --> 01:01:34,685
Speaker 2: is in you by the lane on of hands, and

1103
01:01:34,765 --> 01:01:37,725
Speaker 2: a better translation would be fan it into full flame.

1104
01:01:37,885 --> 01:01:40,325
Speaker 2: So sort of like if you're sitting in front of

1105
01:01:40,365 --> 01:01:44,445
Speaker 2: your fire and the fire begins to die, you put

1106
01:01:44,485 --> 01:01:47,005
Speaker 2: another log in the fire, so you have to feed

1107
01:01:47,085 --> 01:01:50,845
Speaker 2: the fire. And the same is true of evangelism. You

1108
01:01:50,925 --> 01:01:53,885
Speaker 2: got to feed it. You know what can happen to

1109
01:01:53,925 --> 01:01:57,445
Speaker 2: a pastor with evangelism as we can say, well, I

1110
01:01:57,605 --> 01:02:03,605
Speaker 2: just preached a sermon Sunday, I'm off duty, But Paul says,

1111
01:02:04,165 --> 01:02:06,965
Speaker 2: be on duty at all time, you know, be instant

1112
01:02:06,965 --> 01:02:11,085
Speaker 2: Andiasians out of season, preach a gospel, you know, always

1113
01:02:11,165 --> 01:02:15,405
Speaker 2: be ready and opportunities will open up for you. And

1114
01:02:15,445 --> 01:02:18,805
Speaker 2: I think as you look for those opportunities to share

1115
01:02:18,845 --> 01:02:21,485
Speaker 2: your faith, you'll find they're out there all the time.

1116
01:02:21,525 --> 01:02:23,485
Speaker 2: I think the reason we don't see them is we're

1117
01:02:23,485 --> 01:02:26,445
Speaker 2: not looking for them, or literally, we don't want to

1118
01:02:26,485 --> 01:02:29,285
Speaker 2: do that because we see it as our job. I

1119
01:02:29,325 --> 01:02:32,685
Speaker 2: am a Christian and as a follower of Jesus, I've

1120
01:02:32,685 --> 01:02:35,285
Speaker 2: been given the great commission, which is to go into

1121
01:02:35,325 --> 01:02:36,045
Speaker 2: all the world.

1122
01:02:35,805 --> 01:02:36,765
Speaker 1: And preach the Gospel.

1123
01:02:37,045 --> 01:02:40,245
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a job as a pastor, but I

1124
01:02:40,285 --> 01:02:43,445
Speaker 2: would still do this even if it wasn't my quote

1125
01:02:43,525 --> 01:02:47,805
Speaker 2: unquote job, because it really is my calling. And I

1126
01:02:47,845 --> 01:02:51,965
Speaker 2: think if your calling turns into a job, Houston, we

1127
01:02:52,005 --> 01:02:56,565
Speaker 2: have a problem. It must remain your passion. And maybe

1128
01:02:56,605 --> 01:02:59,485
Speaker 2: there's some I would say, as Jesus said to the

1129
01:02:59,605 --> 01:03:04,565
Speaker 2: church of Fesis, return to your first love, you know,

1130
01:03:04,645 --> 01:03:07,165
Speaker 2: get back to the you did when you were a

1131
01:03:07,205 --> 01:03:12,325
Speaker 2: younger believer. And your congregation will get passionate about what

1132
01:03:12,405 --> 01:03:16,285
Speaker 2: you're passionate about. So if they see that from you

1133
01:03:16,365 --> 01:03:19,765
Speaker 2: and the pulpit, they'll emulate that as well. You model

1134
01:03:19,805 --> 01:03:23,085
Speaker 2: it for them. And when they're with you outside of

1135
01:03:23,085 --> 01:03:26,005
Speaker 2: the pulpit, you're having lunch with people from your church

1136
01:03:26,085 --> 01:03:29,125
Speaker 2: or whatever, they see that these things are important to you,

1137
01:03:29,325 --> 01:03:33,405
Speaker 2: just as a Christian. So we have to avoid becoming jaded,

1138
01:03:34,085 --> 01:03:37,565
Speaker 2: avoid becoming professionals. I don't want to be a professional.

1139
01:03:38,525 --> 01:03:42,005
Speaker 2: I want to be someone that is faithful in that

1140
01:03:42,045 --> 01:03:44,725
Speaker 2: calling to the very end. You know when Paul said,

1141
01:03:45,525 --> 01:03:48,965
Speaker 2: you know in his last epistle, I fought the good fight,

1142
01:03:49,045 --> 01:03:52,045
Speaker 2: I kept the faith. I finished the course. Henceforth there

1143
01:03:52,125 --> 01:03:55,405
Speaker 2: is later from you a crown of righteousness, which the Lord,

1144
01:03:55,485 --> 01:03:58,125
Speaker 2: the righteous Judge, will give to me in that day,

1145
01:03:58,405 --> 01:04:00,045
Speaker 2: and not to me only, but to all who love.

1146
01:04:00,085 --> 01:04:02,605
Speaker 2: As a period, I fought the good fight, I kept

1147
01:04:02,605 --> 01:04:05,045
Speaker 2: the faith. I finished the course. You just keep doing

1148
01:04:05,085 --> 01:04:09,565
Speaker 2: it every single day. I don't recommend anyone goes into

1149
01:04:09,605 --> 01:04:13,645
Speaker 2: ministry who has not called. It's not a profession, it's

1150
01:04:13,765 --> 01:04:18,565
Speaker 2: not a good career choice. I heard one preacher, Alan

1151
01:04:18,645 --> 01:04:22,085
Speaker 2: Redpath say, a preacher needs the mind of a scholar,

1152
01:04:22,405 --> 01:04:25,405
Speaker 2: the heart of a child, and the height of a rhinoceros.

1153
01:04:26,005 --> 01:04:28,645
Speaker 2: You're going to be second guest. You're going to be challenged,

1154
01:04:29,245 --> 01:04:31,685
Speaker 2: you're going to be light about. You're going to be

1155
01:04:31,765 --> 01:04:37,125
Speaker 2: attacked throughout your entire life. However, if you're called to

1156
01:04:37,205 --> 01:04:40,165
Speaker 2: do this, you've got to do this, and you have

1157
01:04:40,205 --> 01:04:43,605
Speaker 2: a responsibility to use the gift that God has given you.

1158
01:04:43,845 --> 01:04:46,645
Speaker 2: But if you could be happy doing anything else, do that.

1159
01:04:47,365 --> 01:04:51,805
Speaker 2: Be a Christian businessman, be a Christian. Whatever it is

1160
01:04:51,845 --> 01:04:54,565
Speaker 2: you're doing, do that for the glory of God, and

1161
01:04:54,725 --> 01:04:58,165
Speaker 2: use that platform like my friend Larry who sells luxury eyewear.

1162
01:04:58,285 --> 01:05:00,205
Speaker 2: Do that for the glory of God. And you can

1163
01:05:00,245 --> 01:05:03,525
Speaker 2: be an evangelist and be a faithful congregant and be

1164
01:05:03,645 --> 01:05:05,885
Speaker 2: involved in your church. We need a lot of people

1165
01:05:05,885 --> 01:05:08,605
Speaker 2: doing that. But if you have this calling of God,

1166
01:05:09,005 --> 01:05:13,365
Speaker 2: you must pursue this calling of God. Otherwise it's disobedience.

1167
01:05:13,925 --> 01:05:18,485
Speaker 2: But don't let your calling become a profession. Don't let

1168
01:05:19,285 --> 01:05:22,885
Speaker 2: that calling become your job. It is a privilege, and

1169
01:05:22,925 --> 01:05:26,645
Speaker 2: I recognize it's I'm privileged to do what I do.

1170
01:05:27,285 --> 01:05:30,925
Speaker 2: It's not always easy. Other times it's it's just so

1171
01:05:31,285 --> 01:05:35,245
Speaker 2: incredibly fulfilling, it's so much fun, it's such a blessing.

1172
01:05:35,885 --> 01:05:39,325
Speaker 2: And other times it's really hard. But that's it just

1173
01:05:39,365 --> 01:05:41,725
Speaker 2: goes with the turf, you know, He goes with the turf.

1174
01:05:42,085 --> 01:05:44,125
Speaker 2: And if that's what you're called to do, that's what

1175
01:05:44,165 --> 01:05:44,725
Speaker 2: you gotta do.

1176
01:05:45,565 --> 01:05:48,805
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is a and I wish that

1177
01:05:48,965 --> 01:05:53,045
Speaker 3: every Christian could experience this. Pastors for sure that they

1178
01:05:53,045 --> 01:05:56,285
Speaker 3: could experience this. There is such a joy in leading

1179
01:05:56,285 --> 01:05:59,405
Speaker 3: someone to Christ. Yes and so and what you know?

1180
01:05:59,445 --> 01:06:01,965
Speaker 3: Once again, at our church, I've personally led so many

1181
01:06:02,005 --> 01:06:04,525
Speaker 3: people to Christ that church from the pulpit, certainly, but

1182
01:06:04,805 --> 01:06:07,485
Speaker 3: just like my next door neighbors just came to know

1183
01:06:07,605 --> 01:06:10,525
Speaker 3: Jesus a few weeks ago and they've been they just

1184
01:06:10,525 --> 01:06:13,085
Speaker 3: started attending our church. They came forward when I gave

1185
01:06:13,125 --> 01:06:16,645
Speaker 3: an invitation, and I started crying. I was, I was

1186
01:06:16,685 --> 01:06:19,365
Speaker 3: a hot mess when I when I was leading the

1187
01:06:19,365 --> 01:06:22,165
Speaker 3: group that had come forward. But Greg, I'm to I

1188
01:06:22,165 --> 01:06:24,525
Speaker 3: don't even think my feet touched the ground the rest

1189
01:06:24,525 --> 01:06:27,325
Speaker 3: of that day as I was as I was going home,

1190
01:06:27,845 --> 01:06:31,485
Speaker 3: and there is just there. This is probably a bad

1191
01:06:31,525 --> 01:06:34,845
Speaker 3: way to say it, but something just addicting about this,

1192
01:06:35,045 --> 01:06:38,725
Speaker 3: just this incredible joy of leading someone to Christ. And

1193
01:06:38,765 --> 01:06:41,245
Speaker 3: I think if everyone could experience that at least once,

1194
01:06:41,885 --> 01:06:44,165
Speaker 3: they would share the Gospel with everyone they came into

1195
01:06:44,165 --> 01:06:44,685
Speaker 3: contact with.

1196
01:06:45,325 --> 01:06:48,765
Speaker 2: I agree, and the stats tell us that most Christians

1197
01:06:48,805 --> 01:06:52,605
Speaker 2: never shared their faith. That makes the devil very happy,

1198
01:06:52,685 --> 01:06:56,845
Speaker 2: and that makes God unhappy, because, as they said earlier,

1199
01:06:57,725 --> 01:07:01,725
Speaker 2: you're in partying life by telling someone about Jesus.

1200
01:07:01,885 --> 01:07:04,685
Speaker 1: But it's life giving. You just illustrated it.

1201
01:07:05,685 --> 01:07:08,885
Speaker 2: We're touching the ground, you know, so it and then

1202
01:07:09,245 --> 01:07:12,525
Speaker 2: like you're doing something that every Christian should do, not

1203
01:07:12,725 --> 01:07:16,045
Speaker 2: just what every pastor should do, and every Christian can

1204
01:07:16,165 --> 01:07:18,925
Speaker 2: do this and you know, take the risk. You ask

1205
01:07:18,965 --> 01:07:22,605
Speaker 2: me why pastors don't give invitations? Why do Christians not

1206
01:07:22,805 --> 01:07:25,605
Speaker 2: say to people, would you like to accept Jesus Christ?

1207
01:07:25,805 --> 01:07:28,925
Speaker 2: Fear of failure? Same thing. You know, you're you're afraid

1208
01:07:28,925 --> 01:07:32,365
Speaker 2: they'll say no. But the thing is, take the risk.

1209
01:07:32,445 --> 01:07:35,685
Speaker 2: It's worth it. And if they say yes, ah, great

1210
01:07:35,725 --> 01:07:38,445
Speaker 2: blessing is in store for you and for the person

1211
01:07:38,685 --> 01:07:39,565
Speaker 2: who you're praying with.

1212
01:07:40,005 --> 01:07:43,485
Speaker 1: Absolutely great. Thank you so much, thank you. This is

1213
01:07:43,525 --> 01:07:43,885
Speaker 1: awesome