1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Adams, 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: author of Everyday Prayers for Love, Learning to Love God, others, 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: and even yourself. Each week we dive into meaningful conversations 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: about how to live out the greatest commandment, loving God 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, and 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: loving our neighbors as ourselves through inspiring stories, practical wisdom, 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: and biblical truth. My hope is to encourage you to 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: love boldly, live faithfully, and reflect God's love in your 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: everyday life. Today, I'm honored to welcome Ron Deal to 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: the show. Ron is a licensed marriage and family therapist, 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: best selling author of more than a dozen books, podcast host, 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 2: and senior director of Family Life. Along with his wife, Nan, 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: Ron co authored The Mindful Marriage, a powerful trauma informed 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: resource grounded in both neuroscience and scripture. After walking through 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: the devastating loss of a child, a grief that nearly 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: shattered their marriage, Ron and Nan found hope healing through 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: restoration therapy, a model that helps couples understand and manage 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 2: their emotional responses rather than repeat painful cycles. Well, Hello, Ron, 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: and welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm so happy 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: to have you. 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, Rachel. It's an honor to be here. 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: Your story is a tough story, and so I want 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: to begin if it's okay, yeah, there, would you just 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: share about this loss that you and the inexperience and 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 2: how it has shaped your ministry and now your message. 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: Well, let me put this into context a little bit. 28 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: We've been married for forty years now. We just crossed 29 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: forty years, which is really unbelievable for me to say. 30 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: We were twenty one years into our marriage in two 31 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: thousand and seven when we hit a wall in our 32 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: relationship patterns and things that we've been doing just kind 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: of came to a point. We loved each other, We 34 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: were never bad people, nobody betrayed anybody. We were always 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: faithful to our vows. We were like a lot of couples. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: We had a lot of good things going for us, 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: but we had these low level issues within ourselves in 38 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: between us that just hadn't really gotten anywhere. And one 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: day Nan said, you know, I'm really fed up with this. 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: That turned out to be a monumental moment of change 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: for us. We found ourselves in the office of doctor 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Terry Hargrave, who has now co authored this book with 43 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: us based on this incredible model that he's created that 44 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: therapists are using around the world called restoration therapy. And 45 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: two years later our son died. We often say it 46 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: was God's provision for us that we hit the wall 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: two years before his death, because we didn't have enough 48 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: in the tank to go the distance after his death. 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: Had we not found some growth, some change, had we 50 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: not found real support for who we were, I would 51 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: say that the death of Connor threw a huge wrinkle 52 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: in that journey, our marital journey, because all of a 53 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: sudden everything stopped. Everything was focused on grief, dealing with 54 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: our sadness. We have two other boys, how do we 55 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: help them? Like it just was this massive, massive earthquake 56 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: that changed everything for us, and really that set us 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: on a trajectory of together and apart, together to part 58 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: in a new way, in a grieving way. And that 59 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: too has its own story to it, all of which 60 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: culminates in this book, The Mindful Marriage, not just about 61 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: the death of a child, but really about the journey 62 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: of understanding ourselves and putting on self control in the 63 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: midst of marriage, life and whatever life throws at you. 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: So having said that, Connor was twelve years of age. 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: We have three boys. They were fourteen, Connor was twelve, 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: Our youngest was ten at the time, and he had 67 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: a headache, complain of a headache one day. Little did 68 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: we know he had Ammers's staph infection. They wouldn't catch 69 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: it for three or four more days. He was in 70 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: the hospital for a total of seven So ten days 71 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: after the first symptom, he was gone. He was taken. 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: Here we are now almost seventeen years past that moment, 73 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: and every day has a filter on it, and it's 74 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: a filter of sadness and sorrow and what do we 75 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: do now and how do we move forward? And I 76 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: would say God has been with us, Like you really 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: want to know the full story. We could spend all 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: day talking about this now. And I now have the 79 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: opportunity of the blessing to give back to other parents 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: who have lost a child through the ministry called While 81 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: We're Waiting. We just volunteer with that ministry, and it's 82 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: doing amazing things for people because it's focused on how 83 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: do we grieve and walk with God and carry our 84 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: children with us all at the same time. I think 85 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: for your listeners or viewers. What I would say is 86 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: everybody has hard stuff. We all do. I don't care 87 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: what it is. Somewhere in your journey, you're going to 88 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: have hard things. It's kind of a promise from the Lord. Actually, 89 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: he told us in this world you're gonna have trouble 90 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: and whatever those things are. The challenge is, Okay, this 91 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: wasn't what I wanted. How now do I double down 92 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: on my faith in God in the midst of what 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: really hurts, what really stinks, what really seems unfair, and 94 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: injust whatever that story is. And how do you and 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: I as husband and wife double down on usness finding 96 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: each other when grief wants to take us in separate ways? 97 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: How do we learn how to move toward one another 98 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: as best we can when I don't understand you in 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: your pain or why you're doing what you're doing, or 100 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: why you react that way That's not what I need 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: to do in my pain. How do we create bridges 102 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: to one another? And everybody faces that in marriage? 103 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 2: Yes we do. And I can't wait to continue today's conversation, 104 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: but we're going to take a brief break to hear 105 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: a word from today's sponsor, and when we come back 106 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: Ron will help us understand why so many couples feel 107 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: stuck in painful patterns and what emotional mindfulness has to 108 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: do with lasting change. Welcome back to the Love Offering podcast. 109 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: I'm talking with Ron Deal about building stronger, healthier, christ 110 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: centered marriages. And you know in your book you talk 111 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 2: about destructive cycles that couples can fall into, especially during 112 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: seasons of grief like you just talked about, or stress. 113 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: So what are some of the most common patterns that 114 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: you see and why are they so hard to break? 115 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know, the interesting thing about patterns is that 116 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: they always have some sort of pain underneath them. So 117 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: the pattern on the outside might look like I'm not 118 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: sure how to move towards you right now, so I'm 119 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: just going to move away from you. The pattern on 120 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: the outside might look like somebody gets frustrated and gripes 121 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: or criticizes, and the other person comes back with more gripe, 122 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: more criticis kind of a counter blame approach, or maybe 123 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: there's a distancing at that point, or we escalate our 124 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: argument and then we don't know what to do with it, 125 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: and so we just sort of go our separate ways 126 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: until it dies down a little bit, and we get 127 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: back into life and routine, and we just wait till 128 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: it pops up again. There's all kinds of little patterns. 129 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes one person. We call it the pursue distance. One 130 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: person is pursuing closeness and togetherness with the other person. 131 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: The other person's feeling a little awkward and uncomfortable about 132 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: it for whatever reason, and they're sort of distancing from 133 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: the other. Whatever the outside patterns are, it's the underneath 134 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: pain point that drives that that most people don't have 135 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: any sense of. And I know that's absolutely the case 136 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: in my marriage. And I've been a family therapist for 137 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: thirty two years and I've seen this over and over 138 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: and over again, and sometimes, honestly, marriage education and marital 139 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: therapy even has focused on the outward patterns and we 140 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: haven't gotten underneath it. And that's sort of what happened 141 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: with Dan and I. We were aware of a lot 142 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: of things going on in our relationship. We were very 143 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: intentional people on working on us, and yet we didn't 144 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: know what those pain points were, and so we didn't 145 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: know what our reactivity where it came from. So let 146 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: me just give you thirty years of neuroscience in one 147 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: minute or less. How about that sounds great. From the 148 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: moment we're born, our brain is start trying to make 149 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: sense of the world and make sense of relationships and 150 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: interactions with the people's Especially the people we know and 151 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: love and care for the most are parents. And every 152 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: time you feel some sense of I'm not sure I'm 153 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: loved in this moment, or I'm not sure I'm emotionally 154 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: safe in this moment, your brain kind of takes note 155 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: of that and it wants to preserve itself. It wants 156 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: to preserve your integrity of you. And so your brain 157 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: is designed by God to sort of react in a 158 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: way that's self preserving. We call that coping. We do 159 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: something to try to get the love back. Ooh, Mom 160 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be interested in me right now. I mean, 161 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to cry. See if that pulls are in 162 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: and it works, and lo and behold, crying is a 163 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: good strategy. So all these little things begin to happen 164 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: at a very innocent level, but they begin to take 165 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: root in your brain, and your pain and your coping 166 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: get connected neurologically and it makes a little, let's call 167 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: it a neurological rut in your brain. And guess what 168 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: here we are. I'm fifty nine years old, and all 169 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: of that stuff still applies. That if I don't tell 170 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: my brain what to do do, it will just automatically 171 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: do the same thing it's been doing for a very 172 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: very long time. So if I walk into a cannon, 173 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: which we did one time with our kids and when 174 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: they were young, and a rattlesnake, we heard it and 175 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: we didn't know where it was, I didn't have to 176 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: form a committee to decide what to do about this. 177 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: It's an amazing thing. Rachel. Your brain goes, whoa fight 178 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: or flight? Do one of those two things? Preserve yourself. 179 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: So I immediately took action stop my child from running 180 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: out in front. We've all pulled back and we did 181 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: a flight. Okay, now that seems kind of reasonable and 182 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: of course, but here's the crazy thing. My brain and 183 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: your brain does not know the difference between a rattlesnake 184 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: and your spouse's criticism. My brain does not know the 185 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: difference between somebody with a big knife on a dark 186 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: alley approaching me and threatening me, and threat is the keyword, 187 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: And my brain doesn't know the difference between that or 188 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: your spouse going no I don't ever want to be 189 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: close to you. You just don't know what to do. 190 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, fight or flight is about all 191 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: you can do. Now, there's a bunch neurological reasoning for this, 192 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: but part of your old self, what Paul calls our 193 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: old self, that Roman seventh thing, where all of a sudden, 194 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: I start acting in ways that I do really don't 195 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: want to act. I start treating you in ways that 196 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to treat you, that I know I 197 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't treat you. But all of a sudden, why am 198 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: I doing this? It's often rooted in this neurological process, 199 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: and you're not thinking it. It just is reacting. It's 200 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: a reflex, and what happens on the outside is predictable. 201 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: It's one of four things. We either get blaming of 202 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: the other person, we get shaming of ourselves, we get 203 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: controlling of the circumstances and maybe ourselves, or we escape 204 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: it because that's the way you fight or flight, Blame, shame, control, 205 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: or escape. So guess what. Not only do I have 206 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: a pattern, we call that a pain cycle, but now 207 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: you and I as husband and wife, have developed a 208 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: little dynamic between us and we have a couple pain 209 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: cycle and in our worst moments. This is who we are. 210 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: In our best moments, we're nothing like that. That was 211 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: and I for twenty one years. We were nothing like 212 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: that most of the time, but when bad happened, it 213 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: was ugly. This is every person on the planet. This 214 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: is every couple on the planet. We all have this. 215 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: That's why you have those moments. You look back, you go, 216 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: why did I do that? Why do we get in 217 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: those spots? We love each other, we're great most of 218 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: the time, but when we're bad, we're really bad. This 219 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: is the reason why. Now Paul invites us to put 220 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: away our old self and put on a new self 221 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: in Christ and start doing something different. And the way 222 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: we do that is to be transformed Romans twelve by 223 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: the renewing of our minds. By renewing your mind, we 224 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: tell our brain not to be the old self, to 225 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: be the new self, as he says in Colossians three 226 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: and Ephesians four, and flip forward, on and on it goes. 227 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: We put on the new self. But we have to 228 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: take great intentional care to put away that old pattern, 229 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: that old rut. If you will and begin to live 230 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: and act in a new way that develops new ruts. 231 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: Brain science on here is really fascinating. Everybody's heard of neuroplasticity. 232 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: It's the idea that your brain can change over time. Well, 233 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: guess what, the more you put on the new, the 234 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: more the less your brain goes to the old, and 235 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: the more it begins to develop patterns that are godly 236 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: in their scope. And that godliness from one person makes 237 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: it easier for Godliness to happen between you and you 238 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: develop a new couple, peaceful way of interacting with one another. 239 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: And that whole process from old to new. How do 240 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: you do that for me? How does she do that 241 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: for her? And how do we do that for us? 242 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: Is the heart of the book, The Mindful Marriage. 243 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to continue this conversation, but we're 244 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: going to take another brief break to hear a word 245 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 2: from today's sponsor, and when we come back, we'll talk 246 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: about how faith in euroscience work together and what hope 247 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 2: looks like for couples who feel worn down, disconnected and discouraged. 248 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Love Offering podcast. I'm continuing my 249 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 2: conversation with Ron Deal about cultivating healthier, more loving marriages 250 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: Oftentimes when we talk about love, it is a feeling, 251 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: but your whole book is it's so much of your 252 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: mind that we need to change, and so talk to 253 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: us about that difference. 254 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, self giving love originates in the mind telling the 255 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: body how to behave, how to act, because left to 256 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: its own devices, we're going to react more out of 257 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: pain than we are out of trust. And really that's 258 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: one of the kickers or out of truth. Everybody goes 259 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: to church, we all hear a good message, we all 260 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: go home and go, Yeah, I need to be more 261 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: gentle when I'm frustrated with my wife. Yeah, that's what 262 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to work on. But unless you actually develop 263 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: a mechanism to help you put on gentleness in the 264 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: midst of your frustration, you will default to your old self. 265 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: That's the way we work. We have to have great 266 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: intentionality to put on that gentleness and figure out the 267 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: pathway into that space so we can rehearse it and 268 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: practice it and eventually begin to take it on more 269 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: and more and more. It's so interesting to me you 270 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: talked about the intersection of faith and marriage. How many 271 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: times in the New Testament scripture says things like train 272 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: yourself to be godly for timathy four First Peter, Chapter 273 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: one says, prepare your minds for action and exercise self control. 274 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: Turns out self control is at the heart of this 275 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: whole process, and we have never taught people how to 276 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: put on self control. We don't do it at church, 277 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: we don't do it in marriage ministry. Forty years of 278 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: marriage education, we've never really taught people how to do 279 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: self control in our worst moments. Well, that's what doctor 280 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: Hargrave has figured out how to do. That's what we're 281 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: teaching in this book, the Mindful Marriage, because it is 282 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: so foundational to being able to become the new thing 283 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: that Jesus is inviting us to be more like him 284 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: self giving love. So it takes work, it takes effort, 285 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: It takes a trust in God, It takes a focus 286 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: on the truth that he tells me about me, the 287 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: truth he tells me about our us, about how to 288 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: be and how to respond in marriage. But then I 289 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: have to practice that in order to begin to embody it. 290 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: As you were talking, I was thinking about the verse 291 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: that God did not give us a spirit of fear, 292 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: but of power and of love and of sound mind. 293 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: That is something that is Holy Spirit given. Do you think, yes, 294 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: we've got to practice it. There's an element of we 295 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: need the Lord to. 296 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely the Spirit empowers us in this developmental process, but 297 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: there are imperatives left and right in the New Testament 298 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: about things that we're supposed to choose to do. Right, 299 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm asking the Spirit to guide and lead and offer 300 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: wisdom and empower this process. And I've got to align 301 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: my mind with God's truth. Now, let me just preach 302 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: for a second, if I could, because what I'm about 303 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: to say sounds sort of like what everybody's ever heard 304 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: at church, but it's a little different. We often say 305 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: all you need is God's truth. Yeah, and actually you 306 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: need a little more. You need to align your mind 307 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: with God's truth. It's not enough to know it. The 308 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: gap between knowing and doing is huge. This is Dallas 309 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: Willard said this fifty years ago in one of his 310 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: books on the Spiritual Disciplines when he said, we have 311 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: not taught people how to actually do life as Christ 312 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: did we teach them about it? They have the head knowledge. 313 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: We walk around with an understanding of truth, but we 314 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: don't align our body our mind with that truth and 315 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: then live it. This is why the disciples followed Jesus 316 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: for three years and still didn't get it. They knew 317 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: the truth, they saw the truth, they saw it in action, 318 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: they saw him as truth. They knew the right answers. 319 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: You're the Christ, the son of the Living God, Peter says, 320 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: and the next chapter Jesus is saying, get behind me, Satan, 321 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: because you don't have in mind the things of God. 322 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: They knew it, but they didn't align themselves with it. 323 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: This is what's challenging about spiritual growth. And by the way, 324 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: this is how we grow in marriage and his parents 325 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: and his friends and his people in society. It's when 326 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: I get at my body moving in the direction of 327 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: God's truth. That is a discipline that grows me up. 328 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: That's the lang which Paul uses grow up into him. 329 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: That grows me up, and it matures my ability to 330 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: love my wife. 331 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 2: I think trying to think and it's not coming to 332 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: me quickly enough. But in revelation it's like Blessed are 333 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: those who hear and obey. It really is this, like 334 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: how do we put our faith into action? And we 335 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: don't want to just be hearers of God's words, we 336 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: want to be doers. 337 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: The parable of the foolish man and the wise man 338 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: build his house upon the rock. Is not a man 339 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: who knows God's truth. Read the parable. He who knows 340 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: my word and obeys it is like a man who 341 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: builds his house upon the rock. The one who knows 342 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 1: the truth but doesn't obey it is the foolish man 343 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: who builds his house on the sand. They go to 344 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: the same church, the wise man and the foolish man. 345 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: They both know the truth. It's only one of them 346 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: who does it. Obedience is everything when it comes to 347 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: growing up up. Otherwise we just sort of sit in 348 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: our old self, going to church every Sunday, but never 349 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: really growing up into Christ. There is this dual process 350 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: where we're inviting the Spirit to teach, to show, to reveal, 351 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: to convict, to empower, and I have to choose to 352 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: align my mind, my heart, and my actions in the 353 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: direction of God's truth. That's when things grow. 354 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: Okay, So you have mentioned the word us several times 355 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: in our conversation, and so we are missing Nan today. 356 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: Please tell her where we are. We're so thankful to 357 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 2: have you, but in marriage it does take too So 358 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 2: talk to us about our role in renewing our own mind. 359 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: But then our spouse needs to do the same thing 360 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: because we can really only control ourself. 361 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: Right, that's right, that's right. In fact, that's the subtitle 362 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: of our book, Growing your Best Marriage By Understanding and 363 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 1: Managing Yourself. Matthew seven comes to mind here when you 364 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: think about this. I'm really good at seeing the specs 365 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: in NaN's eyes. Man, I got a PhD in her specs, 366 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: all right. And human nature is we just see what's 367 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: wrong about other people. See. Part of that is again, 368 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: this is part of our brain that is looking for threat. 369 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: See if I see something wrong in you that tells 370 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: me maybe you don't love me the way I want 371 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: you to love me. Maybe I'm not as safe in 372 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: this relationship as I really want to be. And so 373 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm constantly on the lookout for things in you that 374 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: tell me you're not loved, you're not safe. But unfortunately, 375 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: what that does is make me an expert in your specs. 376 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: And if I'm focusing on her specs all the time, 377 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: I am not, Jesus said, focusing on my log. You fool, 378 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: He says, Ron, you fool. First take the log out 379 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: of your own eye. Then then you will see clearly 380 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: to take this to help the other person with the 381 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: speck in their eye. So before I could be an 382 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: asset for her around specs, I gotta deal with me. 383 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: This is the way of humility. Pride says, Oh, I'm fine. 384 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: It's you, babe that you need to get some change 385 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: going on in your life. That's what pride leads us 386 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: to do. But humility says, look in the mirror first, 387 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: ron deal with yourself. So the first thing I've got 388 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: to do is see how I'm reacting, how I'm responding, 389 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: what's going on with me. I've got to put on 390 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: humility about that. And I've got to take charge of me. 391 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: That's self control. I got to take self control over me. 392 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: When I get into a better place and start acting better, 393 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: then I can maybe love and support and be compassionate 394 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: and be curious and attuned to you. I can bring 395 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: the best of me to you and our usness. Now, 396 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm bringing a better me, not 397 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: a reactive, painful me, but a loving, self giving me. 398 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: That's bound to make a difference for our us. Even 399 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: if even if the other person in my case, even 400 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: if Nan isn't responding back. We had a series of 401 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 1: our over the last forty years, I would say there 402 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: were many, many times where she was loving me and 403 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: I wouldn't given much of anything, And the opposite was 404 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: also true in different seasons of our life. The point 405 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: is I'm called to be the better me, not to 406 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: fix her specs. This is going to help when both 407 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: partners are dealing with the logs in their own I oh, 408 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: my goodness. I mean, Nan would tell you if she 409 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: was sitting right here, she would say, you know what, 410 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, we'd have a fight. It would last 411 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: two or three days, it would escalate, it would decline, 412 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,239 Speaker 1: it would go back up again, and we would drop it, 413 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: and then two weeks later we would just sort of 414 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: go back to life and never really resolve it. We 415 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: didn't really get anywhere around that issue. But today, she 416 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: would tell you, we still have triggers. We still have 417 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: moments where one of us goes off and the other 418 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: one goes off and we catch it in about thirty seconds, 419 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who started it, and we both do 420 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: our log work and then we go, Okay, now I'm 421 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: in a better place. Let me take another run at this, 422 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: and in two minutes we get through it. We resolve 423 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: it we move past. It's so different because we stopped 424 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: majoring in specs and started majoring in logs. This, this 425 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: is monumental for couples who feel stuck. Anybody watching listening 426 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: right now, he just goes, I don't know if it's 427 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: even worth it anymore. Yeah, I know, give up the spec stuff. 428 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: It's not going to help. We want to teach you, 429 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: in the mindful marriage how to focus on logs, how 430 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: to change, create that change for yourself, and how it 431 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: ripples then into your usness. 432 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: So talk to the woman listening right now that is 433 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: in that really tough marriage that she's like, I just 434 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: don't see any hope for this. I'm so discouraged. We 435 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: feel so disconnected. One of us is fighting, one of 436 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: us is flighting, Like we're just in a terrible place 437 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: with something other than maybe you just mentioned focusing on 438 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: your own log Is there something else that you would 439 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 2: encourage her with today? 440 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, first of all, I would say, been there, 441 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: done that. I really know that feeling. I know the 442 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: desperation of that in my own life. We've experienced that 443 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: in different ways, and as a therapist, I've experienced that 444 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: with other people. It's a hard place to be, and 445 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: there are no quick answers, there's no easy fix. There's 446 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: a long term journey here. But my goodness, it is 447 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: a good one to go on, because here's the truth. 448 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: If you don't deal with logs, you'll end up just 449 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: leaving this relationship and moving into another relationship and taking 450 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: all the logs with you. I do a lot of 451 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: work with blended families. In fact, most of my professional 452 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: time for the last twenty years has been specifically working 453 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: with blended families. And I can tell you a couple 454 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: after couple after couple walk into a new marriage and 455 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: here we go again because they never really did the work. Okay, 456 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: so let's do the work. Don't be afraid of that. 457 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: It's a season where God wants to help grow you 458 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: and your usness up, and so sometimes it means you 459 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: got to get help outside help. We did that, We 460 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: had to do that more than once in our relationship. 461 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: Get that outside perspective, somebody who can sit with you, 462 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: even a book, even something that sort of takes you 463 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: on a journey in a specific direction that can challenge 464 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: what is and help you begin to think about what 465 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: could be. But you need something outside yourself because when 466 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: you're really really stuck, it's so hard to get outside 467 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: of that look cycle find some help. And that means 468 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: you got to set aside your pride a little bit, 469 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: and you got to ask somebody, and you got to 470 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: go sit down with someone or start a process and 471 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: just don't hesitate to do that. 472 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes it starts with awareness and then prioritizing your marriage. 473 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 2: We're not going to give up on this. We're committed, 474 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 2: and so how do we make this this work? 475 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: Well? 476 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 2: This season, I've been asking all of my guests, is 477 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: there a biblical concept of love that you think applies 478 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: to this topic today? 479 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely? You know, most people listening right now, if I 480 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: said tell me about First Grintients thirteen, they could say, oh, yeah, 481 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: that's the love chapter. We got all this, we do. 482 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: You know what this is about. It was at our 483 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: wedding and you can just start rolling off tongue a 484 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: lot of stuff out of one Corinthians thirteen. So here's 485 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: my question. What are the first two words a First 486 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: Corinthians fourteen? 487 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: Love is patient, love is kind? Oh fourteen? Oh I 488 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: don't know, tell me I was speaking the other one. 489 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all know thirteen. What's fourteen. The first 490 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: two words in Greek of fourteen, verse one are pursue love. 491 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: He basically has just said, here's this thing, here's what 492 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: it is, here's what it's all about. And then he says, 493 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: go get it. And there's an intensity and an emphasis 494 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: in how that Greek word carries the idea of pursue. 495 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: Don't just sort of meander after that, get running, Start 496 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: chasing this thing down, Go after it with much intentionality. 497 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: Pursue the things and become this person that we just 498 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: talked about in thirteen. It's not enough to know it. 499 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: You have to start doing it. And that's where the 500 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: rub is. That's where the challenge is is learning to 501 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: put it into action. But get after it. I think 502 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: that's the invitation for all of us. Every day of 503 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: my life, I'm asking myself, how do I put on gentleness, 504 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: how do I put on quietness, how do I listen? 505 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: How do I turn down my defensiveness and start tuning 506 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: in to what NaN's training to say to me? Those 507 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: are all self disciplines that I have to put on 508 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: every single day. Go after it. 509 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: I love that makes me want to go read First 510 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: Corinthians fourteen. Yes now so thank you for that encouragement. 511 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: So this is going to be releasing on the National 512 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 2: Marriage Week. I know you're part of Family Life and 513 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: so talk to us about this emphasis this week on marriage. 514 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I work for Family Life, which is a 515 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: large marriage of family ministry all over the country. We 516 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: do events, live events, there's curriculum resources online FamilyLife dot 517 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: com very easy to get a hold of. But National 518 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: Marriage Week brings together leaders from all sorts of different 519 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: organizations and churches and creates a series of live stream 520 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: not get this a week leading up to Valentines. You 521 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: can hop on each evening and have all kinds of 522 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: experts talking about variety of topics. The theme this year 523 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: for National Marriage Week is Together with Purpose. It's all free, 524 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: it's very easy to do. It is a fabulous opportunity 525 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: for people. Just sit at home, hear a good word 526 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: and word of encouragement, ignited conversation in your relationship, help 527 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: figure out what North looks like for your marriage. Your 528 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: compass is all over the place. Yeah, all right, what's 529 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: true North? Well, this series is going to help with that. 530 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: Jump in on the weeks you can Marriageweek dot Org 531 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,719 Speaker 1: is where people are going to get in touch with 532 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: this and learn all about it. You mentioned Gary Chapman 533 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: on your program, and he's going to be one of 534 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: the speakers. Greg and Julie Gorman Less and Leslie Parrott, 535 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,239 Speaker 1: Deborah Felida Shanti and Jeff Feldhan, Nana and I are 536 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: going to be on one night, Greg and Aaron Smally, 537 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: Jim Burns, I mean, on and on and goes. It's 538 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: quite a lineup. They do a fabulous job. 539 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: We'll include a link to that in the show notes. 540 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 2: And you know you mentioned seek help. Well, here's free 541 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: help from all kinds of experts. 542 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: So emphasis on the word free. That's right, good stuff. 543 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: That's right. Well, tell us something that you are loving 544 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: right now. 545 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: You know, just the other day, literally our fortieth anniversary 546 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: was this month, and we are still so thankful to God. 547 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: It was not long ago that we can remember life 548 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: was so miserable for us, both the death of our son, 549 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: just not being able to be in tune with one another, 550 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: being at odds with one another around different things at 551 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: different seasons. And yet we now are living all the 552 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: stuff that we teach in the Mindful Marriage. By the way, 553 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: we didn't really come up with that book that's our mentor, 554 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: our counselor's principles, and we're just the living example of that. 555 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: So we brag on it all the time because we 556 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: really didn't write it. It's really just us saying this 557 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: is what works. Come join us. It's so sweet. We 558 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: feel God's mercy every single day and we're just loving 559 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: each other and loving being together. And there was a 560 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: time where I could not say that, but we can now. 561 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: What I love so much about that is that there's 562 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: hope and that sticking to and being committed and staying 563 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: in marriage it's worth it. It is, and not just 564 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: for us, but for generations that follow up to us. Yeah, well, 565 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: so I know I want to stay connected with you. 566 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners are going to want to, and so 567 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: tell us how we can best do that. 568 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: So familife dot com is where you'll find our ministry 569 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: and I run the Blended familydivision that's FamilyLife dot com 570 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: slash Blended, and you can always just find where Nana 571 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: and I we're doing mindful marriage conferences around the country. 572 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: To find that whole schedule. Rondeal dot org. 573 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: Wonderful. Would would you pray for us as we close today? 574 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: God One of the things I've learned is just how 575 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: incredibly patient you are with your children. We're a mess. Lord. 576 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: We endeavor to be like your son Jesus. We want 577 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: to love the way he has loved us. We want 578 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: to represent your kingdom well, and in our best moments 579 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: we do and we do that for your glory. And 580 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: in our worst moments, Boy, we just look like everybody else. 581 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: And yet you are kind and patient, and you just 582 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: keep inviting through your spirit us to move towards you 583 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: and move towards your ways, and you help us, and 584 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: we are grateful. We are grateful for the hope we 585 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,239 Speaker 1: have because of that and the peace that comes to 586 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: our hearts, our spirits, and our relationships when we follow 587 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: your ways. So we're grateful for that, and we ask 588 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: that you would continue to move to motivate, to convict, 589 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: to inspire us to love the way Jesus loves and 590 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: Jesus theme we pray Amen. 591 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: Amen, Ron, thank you for helping us to be more 592 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: mindful in our marriages. Appreciate you. Thanks Rachel, Thank you 593 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: so much for listening to the Love Offering podcast. I 594 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: hope today's conversation encourage you to love God, love others 595 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: and even love yourself a little more. If this episode 596 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: was meaningful to you, please share it with a friend 597 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: and leaver of you. It helps others find the show 598 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: and spreads the message of love even further. To connect 599 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: with me, visit me on my website at Rachelcadams dot com, 600 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: where you can download the Love Offering Calendar, a free 601 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: resource filled with simple daily ways to love those around you. 602 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: Be sure to pick up a copy of Ron and 603 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: Nan Dial's book The Mindful Marriage and explore the free 604 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: expert led resources available during National Marriage Week at Marriageweek 605 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: dot org, happening February seventh through the fourteenth. A special 606 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: thank you to Life Audio for supporting this podcast and 607 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: making it possible to find more great podcasts visit lifeaudio 608 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: dot com. Until next time, let's make our lives an 609 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 2: offering of love.