1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 2: Hey Butch, thanks for joining me. 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: Zip perk, great pay. Very Barry Butch Wilmore retired NASA 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: astronaut in US Navy test fil it. Here's a new book. 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: It's called The Stuck, Stuck in Space and Astronauts Hope 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: through the Unexpected. It recounts your career with a focus 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: on a mission that gained worldwide attention. Butch, you travel 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: to the space three times by my memory, once aboard 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the Space Shuttle, once a board a so used Russian rocket, 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: and another time, of course, aboard the one we're talking 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: about today, which is a blowing Starliner test mission. I 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: don't want to assume everybody knows this story. I was 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: following it as it was going. 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: On a few years ago. 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: But you were aboard this star Liner test mission that 16 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: was supposed to last eight days I believe about a week, 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: and it ended up lasting two and eighty six days. 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: You were going to be Iss International Space Station lasted 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: a lot longer, And of course then the story became 20 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: how are we getting you and everybody else back? So 21 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: for those who don't know remember it, what happened and 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: how did you get back? 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 3: The very short person, Michael, is we lost five of 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: our eight half firing thrusters over the course of the 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: rendezvous and docking process, lost the ability to fully control 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 3: the spacecraft's lost six degree of freedom control and we're 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: able to regain it back, get a few thrusters back, 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: eventually docked, and then of course are we coming back 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: on Starliner? 30 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: Are we not coming back on Starliner? 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 3: That discussion was through the summer of twenty twenty four 32 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 3: for about three months. The decision was made not to 33 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 3: come back, and so then how do we get us back? 34 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: And that process took It would have been almost June, 35 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 3: I believe would have been a full year, based on 36 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 3: how different spacecraft coming go, cargo spacecraft and all to 37 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: the International Space Station, but it wound up being nine 38 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: and a half months. That's when we finally got back 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: in March of just over a year ago. 40 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: Right now, I'm assuming you had all sorts of emotions 41 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: while this was going on. What point I mean, I'm 42 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: assuming it's like any other thing on Earth in which 43 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, something happens, you think, okay, we'll get back 44 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: next week, we'll get back the falling week, we'll get 45 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: back the next month, and pretty soon you realize we're 46 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: up here for a long time. 47 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: I mean, did you at all. 48 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: Wonder if you were ever going to get back? 49 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 3: No, I tell you, because I've been with NASA for 50 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 3: a quarter century. At that point, I knew the failures 51 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: that we had were not trivial. I knew that our 52 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: ability to understand fully this problem enough to get back 53 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: in the spacecraft and come home. So real quick, What 54 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: was in my mind before we docked with the failures 55 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 3: we had. I'm manually, I'm on the controls myself. I'm 56 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: controlling the spacecraft. It is not the same as it 57 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 3: had been the day prior. 58 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: It was. 59 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: It was challenging to control and understanding the failures that 60 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: we had. There's three things really that went through my mind. 61 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: The first thing was we we have to dock to 62 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: space station. Space Station is our safe haven. We get there, 63 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 3: we'll be safe for a period of time. If we 64 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: don't dock to space station, I'm not sure what our 65 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: options are. I'm not sure that I can control the 66 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: spacecraft enough to get us back to Earth at this 67 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: point because at the time, not knowing why we had 68 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: the failures, not understanding any of that. So these are 69 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 3: the first two thoughts that came from up through my mind. 70 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: The third thought was if we are able to dock successfully, 71 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: I don't see as coming back on this spacecraft. So 72 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: it wasn't like something I realized as time went on. 73 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: It's something I knew from the beginning that the chance 74 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: was very slim of us getting back, and even before 75 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: we docked, so getting back on that spacecraft. So I 76 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: didn't say anything of my wife and my girl, my 77 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: daughter's like I said, that was a three month process 78 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: of evaluating. 79 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: This was June, early June. 80 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 3: It was the end of August before the decision was 81 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: made we weren't coming back. But I told my wife, Mike, 82 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: and our two daughters about a month later, in the 83 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: first week as July, that I didn't think we'd make 84 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: it back until at the time twenty twenty five, which 85 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: was six months away. That was the most likely scenario 86 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: that I felt like because of just how all things 87 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: how again, understanding this process, that bounding it all, understanding 88 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 3: why it happened, what happened, and why it happened was 89 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 3: going to be difficult to determine. 90 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: Every nas to it early. 91 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: Every NASSA astronaut knows they could perish on any mission, 92 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: because launching is so difficult. Were there moments that you 93 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: thought something might happen on this mission that could be dangerous? 94 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean were you were you confident in the crew 95 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: down you know in Houston and Florida, that everything was 96 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: going to be finer. Did you ever get a little 97 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: concerned that you know something might happen. 98 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you, Michael, I don't offer up information 99 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 3: unless someone asked the question. And you just asked a 100 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 3: question I have not been asked. So I'll share this 101 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: with you. You'll be the first to hear it, you 102 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: and your listeners. Before we launched, I was with a 103 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: group of Boeing executives, Boeing chief engineers above the star 104 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 3: Liner program. I mean, these are people way up the 105 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: chain Boeing, and they asked me what is your biggest 106 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: concern because said we'd had many we'd found many things 107 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: with the software hardware combination and tests that were basically 108 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: lethal failure modes of the spacecraft. We've found a lot 109 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: of things, and so they asked me what my most 110 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: my biggest concern was and I said, well, it's the 111 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: thrusters and the valves. 112 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: And the reason I. 113 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 3: Said that was because we had lost some thrusters on 114 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: the previous two uncrewed test flights, and you don't get 115 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 3: that hardware back. These were failures on the service module. 116 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 3: The service module detaches from the crew module and burns 117 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 3: up in the atmosphere, so you don't get the hardware back. 118 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: You can't inspect it, so you're you're just looking at 119 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: data and using engineering judgment to say, what why did 120 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 3: these why did these thrusters fail? And not knowing a 121 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: definitive answer though they had good rationale. I told them 122 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 3: then that was the that was my biggest concern, and obviously, 123 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: as it turns out, that's exactly where the problem was 124 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 3: when we were on orbit. So what did this mission 125 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: teach you about trusting in God? 126 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: Because I don't I don't know of anybody who goes 127 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: on an eight day vacation and all of a sudden 128 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: get stuck somewhere for you know whatever, many months, ere 129 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: nine months? I mean, what was the Lord teaching you 130 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: during this time? 131 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 3: Well, he was solidifying things that he'd already taught me. 132 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I'd professionally grown up in the Navy. I'd 133 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: flown aircraft and multiple aircraft off of aircraft carriers, I've 134 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: told you into combat. He'd been, you know, laying the 135 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: foundation of life and trials and difficulties and stressful situations 136 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: for many decades. And so in this situation, I had 137 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: learned God's word is true. God's word is absolutely true. 138 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: I believe it. 139 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: I had learned that any in whatever situation, I am 140 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: in to be content. That's Paul said the same. And 141 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: I'd learned that God's word is true. Therefore what I 142 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: believe doesn't matter. But God's word is true. He is 143 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 3: that God's word is the authority. So in those situations 144 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 3: I had learned I can be content and in all situations, 145 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 3: just like Paul. It's not to say that there aren't trials, 146 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: but through it all, honestly, I was content and it 147 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 3: solidified a lot. You know, what I had been learning 148 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: through scripture for decades and living it in the moment 149 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: is what we're called to do, and that's what I 150 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: tried to do through the whole process. Let's let me 151 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 3: ask you questions that our readers and listeners will will 152 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: want me to ask you. From two hundred and fifty 153 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: miles above earth, or how for many miles it is 154 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: you got a unique perspective. How does this is not 155 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: specifically a question about that mission, but it's just a 156 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 3: question about being in space. 157 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: How does seeing. 158 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: Creation from space impact your understanding of your faith you're 159 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: understanding of God? 160 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: Does it deepen your personal faith? 161 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 3: I did not need to go to space to learn 162 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: anything about my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and the 163 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: plan of salvation and his plan for his plan and 164 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: his purposes that he's working out through the throughout time. 165 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: Right. I didn't need that because the God's word is sufficient. 166 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: I didn't need that. Does it strengthen you? Obviously? I 167 00:07:58,960 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: mean absolutely. 168 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: So you look at the beauty of this planet that 169 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: Isaiah forty five eighteen is very clear that God created 170 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 3: to be inhabited, and you understand and you see that. 171 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: You see the brilliant colors, the atmosphere, the variety the lightning, 172 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: and how he's you know, nourishing our planet with rainfall. 173 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: And you see that from above. You see shooting stars 174 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: from above looking down at Earth, you see them below you, 175 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: I mean those type of things and the aurora there 176 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: are is a protection of our planet because it's hiring 177 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: the electrons entering our atmosphere at the poles because it's magnetized, 178 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 3: and that's protection of the nasty radiation. That's you know, 179 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 3: zinging through the through space and it goes around our 180 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: planet because the Lord magnetized our planet. And that's just 181 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: visible evidence of the protection. So you see all that, 182 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: You understand all that, I mean with your own eyes, 183 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 3: not with a camera, not with via video. And it 184 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 3: is strengthening. Sure, it certainly is. 185 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: Did I need it know? But does it give me. 186 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: An even greater perspective of my Almighty God? Absolutely it does, Yes. 187 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: Sir, Let me plan that question. Then that there, This 188 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: is a different type of question. You're in the world 189 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: of science. Someone even call you an explorer. I guess 190 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: I know people in five hundred years ago would call 191 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: you an explore. There's often a debate about whether science 192 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: and faiths are in conflict. 193 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: How do you see that? 194 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: How do you how do you answer someone who ask 195 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: you about science and faith and greater action? That is 196 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: a great question and it's and it makes me chuckle. 197 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: That's why I smile because John three twenty seven. 198 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: As a verse, John the Baptist said a person cannot 199 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: receive even one thing list unless it's given to him 200 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 3: from heaven. God is their creator. You know, in the beginning, 201 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 3: God created the heavens and the earth. Multiple passages throughout 202 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 3: scripture shows that God created all things, and it's and 203 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: it's ironic to me that the creator of all things, 204 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: including science and technology, as he enables us and enlightens 205 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: us more and more in our understanding, that Satan has 206 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 3: gotten into the minds of people that they don't mix 207 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 3: and they don't together. I mean, that's it's ironic. It's 208 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 3: not that's not surprising, because Satan's a decebron has been 209 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: from the beginning. But it's something that the creator of science, 210 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: the creator of technology, the creator of everything that we 211 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: we know what we understand now, Satan has got it 212 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 3: in the minds of people that somehow that science and 213 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: God's word don't mix. I can tell you I've done 214 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: a study through the Bible. The Bible's not a science book, 215 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 3: but where it speaks to science, it's absolutely true. And 216 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: I have even a brief on that that I go 217 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 3: through and share a lot of those truths. Anyway, So yeah, 218 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: it's it's very ironic, not ironic, it's very sad, but 219 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: it's it's it's the world in which we live right, idiots. 220 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: Satan sathan is is is he doesn't sleep, he doesn't rest. 221 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: He's going on on and on and on to deceit 222 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 3: in all aspects of life, including that. 223 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: Let's so let's ask a different type of question here, 224 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: a different type of subject. The purpose of manned exploration 225 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: of man's space, space exploration. 226 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: Because we can send robots. 227 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: We've done that with Jupiter, Cider and Arness and Neptune 228 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: and line is like that. In your view, what is 229 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: what is the purpose of man's space or exploration? What 230 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: do we gain by putting someone on the rocket seeing 231 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: them the space because it's not cheap, but it's awesome. 232 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, what what would you ask? Well, how would 233 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: you answer someone who says, why why do we do this? 234 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: Let me let me put it into category. Let's put 235 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 3: it in the spiritual category. First discovery glorifies God. It 236 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 3: has throughout history. 237 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: We've seen that. We see it even in scripture. 238 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 3: I mean, was it Tubalcane and Jubile were the first 239 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: to create and was this Genesis chapter four, to start 240 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: working in metals and came up with instruments. That is 241 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 3: an understanding that didn't exist before, and that glorifies God 242 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 3: as we continue to open up, as He continues to 243 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: open up, our understanding going into the heavens glorifies God. 244 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: These capabilities glorifies God. 245 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 3: Our rocket launching off of a path, that technology, the 246 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 3: understanding of that glorifies God because He's enabled us to 247 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: do that. So as we go further and we go 248 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: to the moon, we do those things. It all is 249 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: a glorifies Him if you see it with the correct perspective, 250 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 3: and the correct perspective is the biblical perspective. So that's 251 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 3: the spiritual part. The practical side, this is what people 252 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: don't understand. I don't think about. You go to the moon, 253 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: you get a handful of dirt, you move, move regularly, 254 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: and you say, wow, that costs X number of billions 255 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: of dollars this handful of dirt. Well, no, that's that's 256 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 3: not that. That's not what is taking place. It is 257 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 3: a complete industry and it is it is. It is 258 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 3: supporting all the way up and down the labor chain. 259 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 3: I mean from the individuals that are going into the 260 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 3: coal mines and getting the coal that produces the power 261 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 3: to power the buildings that the welders work in to 262 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 3: weld the huge rockets together to the scientists and the 263 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 3: tech and those in technology that are building. It's an 264 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 3: industry throughout our nation and it supports our nation's economy. 265 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: So those billions of dollars are not spent on that piece, 266 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: that that handful of regulith. It is supporting an entire 267 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 3: industry and our nation that fuels our economy. So that's 268 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: one thing I haven't heard people say. I'm not sure why. 269 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 3: Just like any other large industry, it's a jobs program. 270 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 3: That's part of what industry is. It supports livelihood, it 271 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: supports families, it supports your you know, your mortgage, it 272 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 3: supports all of that. And our human spaceflight program is 273 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: no different. It does exactly the same thing. 274 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: But there are discoveries in. 275 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: Space that have been made and advances that have been 276 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: made that have benefited us on Earth as well. 277 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean that must cell phone setting and that's 278 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: all from initiated from NASA technology. I mean, how would 279 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: you feel about not having a cell phone in this 280 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: age in which we live? You can, we can't even 281 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: function without it. Yeah, it's got its baseline, its foundation 282 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: and technology with NASA. All right, let me ask you too, Arth, 283 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: that's one of the biggest examples. Let me ask you 284 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: for work questions, what is what is launch like? 285 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 2: And what is re entry like? And which is which 286 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 2: is scarier? 287 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: You know, I can't say either as scary because this 288 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 3: is something you know you've had a desire to do 289 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 3: since you were a kid, that you imagine these things 290 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 3: and the Lord gives you a desire. 291 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: Of your heart and there you are scary. 292 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: There's all many types of things that could wrong, but 293 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: go wrong, but that's in all aspects of life. Put 294 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: it in that kind of perspective, it's fascinating, it's amazing. 295 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you're literally leaving the planet when you launch, 296 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: and there's g forces and the rocket is rolling and 297 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: it depletes the prop the propellant in one section and 298 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: there's jarring as that section separates, and the next one 299 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 3: lights off and you start going again and oh bye. 300 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: And you look out the window as you roll and 301 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: you're seeing the clouds from way way way above that 302 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: you've never seen before. It's just mesmerizing. And then back, 303 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 3: Oh my. We used to call it an E ticket 304 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: when I was a kid, and we go to the fair, 305 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: you get the E ticket that was the wild ride 306 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 3: they were called E tickets. I don't why, but it's 307 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 3: an E ticket ride from start to finish re enter 308 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: in the atmosphere. I mean you're literally inside of a 309 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: four five thousand degree fireball, returning the atmosphere from seventeen thousand, 310 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: five hundred miles an hour down to below parachute speeds, 311 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: and the whole ride is just a for real I mean, 312 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 3: there's high G forces, that's changes. Yes, there's things that 313 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: could happen, but hey, there's nothing you can do about 314 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: at that point. 315 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: Just enjoy it. 316 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: You're really unique of which in that you have gone 317 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: up in a shuttle, You've gone up in a Soyer's Rock, 318 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: and then you've gone up in this bloweing, this bowling 319 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: starlinter test crabs, and you've returned on a SpaceX cap. 320 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: So I think, if I remember correctly, you've returned by 321 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: landing on an airstrip. You've returned by landing in the 322 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: ocean a parachute, and by landing if I'm correct, on land. 323 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: Which is how the Russians do it. Am I correct? 324 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: There has anybody else done that? How many people have 325 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: done that? Turned all three ways? 326 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: Uh, there's just a handful. 327 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, what we two of us, said, have flown five 328 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: spacecraft if you count the space station. That's me and Sonny. 329 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 3: Nobody's in the history has ever done that. But just 330 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: praise the Lord. I mean, it's just an opportunity that 331 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 3: he's given. Just give him the glory for it all. 332 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: Which one did you, uh, compare the three types of returns? 333 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: I mean, is there is there. 334 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: I've always thought the Russians landing on land Is could 335 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: be a little bit scary, but air the three, I'll 336 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: give it. 337 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: I'll give you an analogy. The the space shuttles like 338 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: a Cadillac, big sturdy. It rocks and rolls a little bit, 339 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 3: but it's firm. The soy used, I would compare it 340 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: to one of those racing cars in the desert that's 341 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 3: bounding and going and doing all of that. It is 342 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: rugged and sturdy, but it is. 343 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: It is a right. 344 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: It is. It is mister Toad's wild ride. It is 345 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: because the parachutes open initial and you're spinning, is it is? 346 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: It unfurls and oh my, it's just amazing. I would say, 347 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: returning on a dragon. We had a Volkswagen Beetle when 348 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: I was a kid, and it had it was different. 349 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: Had it engine in the back, air cooled, but it 350 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 3: it fired up every time we had it for over 351 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 3: a decade. 352 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: It was it was capable, it did its job well. 353 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: It was just different. And I would say that's the Dragon. 354 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: It is different. 355 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 3: It's this the as you deorbit burn it takes much longer. 356 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: The thrusters are different and they kind of pulse and 357 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: you hear them clicking click, they click click. But you 358 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: make it back to Earth and everything works well. So 359 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 3: I would I would say it's the Volkswagen Beetle. 360 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: How do you sleep in space? How do you sleep 361 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: very comfortably? Because you have no no no pressure on 362 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: your joints. 363 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, no reason why anybody would 364 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 3: know this, but your joints, your ligaments goes to a 365 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: neutral position. So this is I'm showing you this right here, 366 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: because this is about the position that you would people 367 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 3: sleep in because everything just neutralizes, right. Even your waist 368 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: bends a little bit because those tendons as well go 369 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 3: to that neutral position. 370 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: And it's so it's very very comfortable. 371 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: It's there's a transition because you know, I sleep on 372 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 3: my side and I'm very very comfortable all my and 373 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: there's a transition from that comfort to a floating comfort. 374 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: But once you get it nice. Do you ever feel 375 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: confined in space? You're out there with people that you 376 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: get along with, but after a few months, anybody's going 377 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: to have problems. I mean, you can't leave, You're just 378 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: suck with a what's Do you ever feel confined and 379 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: just want to get out of there? 380 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 3: The attitude that I had, I tried to share the 381 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: attitude is that my responsibility, my biggest responsibility, is to 382 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 3: make this evolution of spaceflight the best possible evolution of 383 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: your professional career. Whoever I'm with, that's my responsibility to 384 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: make sure you have the best time ever. And if 385 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 3: I can maintain that attitude, then then everything's well. Now, 386 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 3: is there a conflict? Yeah, of course there are. I 387 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 3: mean you're thrown in a can with with people you 388 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: didn't choose to live with, and eventually something's going to happen, 389 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 3: of course, and you but you've got to get past it, 390 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 3: and you got to move forward, and you got to 391 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: continue that your time up here. I need to make 392 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: sure it's the best ever. All right, let me ask 393 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 3: you a couple more questions where we close here, Let's 394 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 3: chant them on Artemists two. As we talk right now, 395 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 3: Artemis two just went around the moon and came back. 396 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 2: It was a massive success. What were your thoughts throughout 397 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: that mission? I think a lot of us were on 398 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: pins and needles. What was your what were your faults? 399 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 3: When you launched eight eight million pounds of thrust, that's 400 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: the that's the strongest rocket we've ever launched with humans 401 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: on it. And then the translunar injection burn is the 402 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: same burn that puts you on a course to come 403 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: all the way back. There aren't there are little tweaking burns, 404 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: but there's no other major burn because this was a 405 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: free return trajectory around the moon. So that burn had 406 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 3: to go off and go off well, and it did. 407 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 3: So there's there's these these points throughout a mission where 408 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: things need to go right. Once that burn takes place, 409 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: there's no stopping. There's no stopping coming back if you 410 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 3: have a problem. So let's say the cabin lost pressurization 411 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 3: right after the burn, Well you got the whole trip, 412 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: You got eight days before you get back. So one 413 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: of the requirements was that the spacesuits that they wear 414 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 3: they had to be able to maintain pressure and stay 415 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: in the suits for that length of time. So think 416 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 3: about this, You're going to have the minimal ability with 417 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 3: whatever water you have in the suit for an eight 418 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: day period and because that's all you're going to get 419 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: a little bit of water, and so you'd have to 420 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: survive through that whole thing because there was not another capsule, 421 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: a part of another capsule where you could pressurize and 422 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 3: go into. That's one of the things that's kind of 423 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 3: it's a little bit hanging it out at Polo eight, 424 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: did it. They're the only one that went to left 425 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 3: lower th orbit without another capsule with them, which was 426 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 3: the lunar module, And we did it here as well. 427 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 3: The next time we go beyond lower th orbit, we'll 428 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: have another capsule kind of a safe even area to 429 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 3: go to, or we will be going to one that 430 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 3: is in position of the Moon and that and so, 431 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 3: you know, most people don't realize that, but that's that's 432 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: hanging out a little bit, a little bit on the 433 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 3: edge there, but that's that's part of what we do. 434 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: Victor Glover was the pilot of that mission. He's a 435 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: person who's a Christian as well like you. What were 436 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: your thoughts as he was, you know, opening his faith, 437 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: which he's been for a long time. I followed his career, 438 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: But but what were your thoughts as he even spoke 439 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: about Christ on the mission? 440 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: Expected? 441 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 3: Because I know him, I know him well. We talk 442 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 3: about our Lord often. As a matter of fact, I 443 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: just texted with him yesterday since he got back. And 444 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 3: you know, he's a he's a brother in Christ. I 445 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 3: try to encourage him. He encourages me, and we did 446 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 3: that yesterday as well. So it was fully expected and 447 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 3: he's not going to shy away from it, just like me. 448 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 3: He never used his position to proselyte his his belief 449 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: unless he got asked a specific question like you asked 450 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: that question earlier about Starliner. You asked the right question, 451 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 3: so you got the answer. And the same thing happled 452 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 3: with me a couple of times on orbit. People ask 453 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 3: me specifically questions about my feelings. Well, I am content, 454 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 3: and I got to share that Christ is the reason 455 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: I'm content, and look like Paul said, so he'll do 456 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 3: the same thing, and I'm proud of for doing that 457 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 3: because you can't separate who you are from what you do, 458 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: nor should you. 459 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: What's the key takeaway from your book? But before I 460 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: let you go, oh, open the now and eternal hope. 461 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 2: Hoping the now. Everybody feels stuck in something. 462 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 3: And if you trust in the Lord, you trust he's 463 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 3: working out his planning and his purposes for his glory 464 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: and your ultimate good. If you believe, then there's hope 465 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 3: in every single situation. And you know the fact that 466 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 3: He shed his blood for us, paid the price for 467 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 3: my sin, incurred the wrath of God, the Father from 468 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 3: my sin. Therefore I can be forgiven. He lived the 469 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 3: life I couldn't and took the punishment I deserve. And 470 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 3: that is eternal hope because he is my savior. And 471 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 3: that's also that that's just the book point people that 472 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: that's why I published it, the hope mess and not 473 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 3: to tell a story about starline that though we do that, 474 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: not to tell a story about combat flying you know 475 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 3: off aircraft cares that we do that. 476 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,239 Speaker 1: It's the message that's important. Let me ask you one 477 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: more question that just popped in my head. We live 478 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: in a social media age that passed out on everything 479 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: and go to the moon. I'm assuming you've been around 480 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: people who did go to the moon, But there are 481 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: some people who think that the moon shot was completely 482 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: fictional because technology back then was pretty primitive compared to 483 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: what we have now. I don't know if you've ever 484 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: met anybody like that, but if you did, how would you. 485 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 3: Respond, Oh, I've met many people like that. I get 486 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: those lifessmens flatter we didn't go to the Moon. I 487 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 3: get that constantly. I would say that four hundred thousand people, 488 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 3: just from data, four hundred thousand people work on the 489 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 3: Moon program back in the sixties and seventies, four hundred thousand. 490 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 3: Not one single person, not one, has ever come forward 491 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 3: and said we didn't do it, not one. I mean, 492 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 3: people are going to believe what they're going to believe. 493 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 3: And I understand some skepticism because nations have lied to 494 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 3: their people. We see it today all the time. Nations 495 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: are lying to their people, and so that makes you 496 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 3: skeptical about big things like that, did it really happen? 497 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: I get it. 498 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 3: But there's evidence beyond even comprehension that I could share 499 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: for another thirty minutes of the shows that we did 500 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 3: go to the Moon. And as a believer in Christ, 501 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 3: I would not lie for my nation because my my 502 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 3: Lord tells me not to lie, and I would not 503 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 3: do that, and I will and Charlie Duke an other 504 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 3: gentleman went to the moon of fob of sixteen that 505 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: I know. I know well he would not lie for 506 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: his nation over his lord. 507 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: And so we went to the moon. We absolutely did, 508 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: and we're going again. 509 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: I think the Soviets had many spies over here. I 510 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: think they would have probably fessed up, untiled everybody. They 511 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: didn't go, if if we if we didn't go. I 512 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: think that's one of the better, one of the better 513 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: comebacks there. You mentioned you mentioned flat earth. You're natch 514 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: not You've been around the world and you said you've 515 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: maped people who believe in a flat earth. 516 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 2: How do those conversations go? 517 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: I try to say it lovingly. If you're using scripture 518 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 3: and some do just to say that the Earth is flat, 519 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: then that that is a concern. And the reason it 520 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 3: is a concern is it is because you are not 521 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 3: discerning scripture correctly. Because the Earth is not flat. And 522 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: if you're saying that the scriptures say, you know, it 523 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: leads to the fact that the Earth is flat. That's 524 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 3: concerning because if you're discerned not correctly discerning no scriptures, 525 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 3: you're likely not correctly discerning other scriptures as well. 526 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: And that's why, it's why it's concerned. And I try 527 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 2: to love them and just share share that with them. 528 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: But you've been, You've been around this world and it's 529 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: non flat. 530 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: Yere better fact, I'll tell that data to Hey, I've been. 531 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 3: I've circled the planet seven thousand, four hundred and twenty 532 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: four times, and every single. 533 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 2: Time I went around the planet, it was round. 534 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 4: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe 535 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 4: and share the episode with a friend. A big thanks 536 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 4: to the team at life Audio for their partnership with 537 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 4: us on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, 538 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 4: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in 539 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 4: their network. 540 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: See you next time.