1 00:00:02,690 --> 00:00:07,230 Speaker 1: Life audio. I'm in pain. I'm here again and you 2 00:00:07,270 --> 00:00:09,340 Speaker 1: haven't shown up yet. And it's been a number of 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,500 Speaker 1: years in this thing, but I'm going to come to 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: you again with hope. 5 00:00:18,770 --> 00:00:21,650 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss 6 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small. 7 00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:29,740 Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and I've had seasons where God felt 8 00:00:30,060 --> 00:00:33,690 Speaker 2: painfully distant, and I know how it feels to look 9 00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:37,090 Speaker 2: around and think everyone else has a depth of connection 10 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:40,150 Speaker 2: with Christ that somehow evade you no matter how much 11 00:00:40,190 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: you pray, read scripture, or seek him. And I know 12 00:00:44,580 --> 00:00:49,740 Speaker 2: how easily shame and self-condemnation can fill that confusing space. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: But I also know the joy on the other side 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,870 Speaker 2: of perseverance when we keep reaching for God as best 15 00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:59,690 Speaker 2: as we're able. And he slowly but steadily heals the 16 00:00:59,750 --> 00:01:04,030 Speaker 2: wounds and removes the barriers that hinder the relational bond 17 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: we crave. And my guest today, Stacey Eldridge, author of 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,030 Speaker 2: The Ladder of Love and numerous other titles. knows this 19 00:01:12,250 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: topic well. And today she's sharing practical ways we can 20 00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:21,819 Speaker 2: move from knowing about God to experiencing him deep in 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: our souls and receiving the love that makes us feel 22 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: vibrantly alive, even in hard circumstances. Stacey, thank you so 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: much for joining us. 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,270 Speaker 1: Jennifer, it's my delight to be here with you and 25 00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:40,270 Speaker 1: with the listeners. Yes, thank you so much for having me. 26 00:01:41,150 --> 00:01:43,590 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I want to start by saying your book 27 00:01:44,150 --> 00:01:46,930 Speaker 2: is profound. 28 00:01:47,250 --> 00:01:48,290 Speaker 1: You went deep. 29 00:01:48,690 --> 00:01:52,190 Speaker 2: And reading your story, first of all, I really appreciated 30 00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: your vulnerability, your authenticity. And I sensed as I was 31 00:01:56,420 --> 00:02:00,250 Speaker 2: reading your story that Receiving God's love hasn't always been 32 00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: easy for you and that some of that might have 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,139 Speaker 2: connected to emotional wounds that you experienced in your past. 34 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,740 Speaker 2: Would you say that's accurate? 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. And I think that's true for everyone because 36 00:02:14,030 --> 00:02:15,989 Speaker 1: no one gets through this life unscathed. 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,060 Speaker 2: I would love to hear more about your journey of 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 2: going from knowing about God to having this really deep, 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,489 Speaker 2: intimate relationship with him. 40 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:27,930 Speaker 1: That's good. The real shift happened for me about 30 41 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:31,730 Speaker 1: years ago. I was a sincere follower of Christ. I 42 00:02:31,770 --> 00:02:34,910 Speaker 1: was going to church and women's Bible study and doing 43 00:02:34,950 --> 00:02:37,530 Speaker 1: Bible study and volunteering in the church and doing what 44 00:02:37,570 --> 00:02:39,750 Speaker 1: you know to do, to press in and to know 45 00:02:39,790 --> 00:02:42,410 Speaker 1: and to live the life that you want that's pleasing 46 00:02:42,430 --> 00:02:46,630 Speaker 1: to him. But I was so... dissatisfied. I had this 47 00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:50,220 Speaker 1: feeling like there was more available and I was hungry 48 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:51,850 Speaker 1: for it and I didn't know how to get it. 49 00:02:52,139 --> 00:02:54,420 Speaker 1: And this is a season when I have small children, 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,060 Speaker 1: three young boys at home. I worked part-time, but mostly 51 00:02:58,139 --> 00:03:01,260 Speaker 1: I was home with them. And this one particular day, 52 00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:03,140 Speaker 1: this was one of the days where John got home 53 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:06,139 Speaker 1: from work and I met him on the doorstep and said, tag, 54 00:03:06,340 --> 00:03:06,859 Speaker 1: you're it. 55 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:07,660 Speaker 2: I'm out. 56 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,700 Speaker 1: And it was winter. So it was dark, And I 57 00:03:10,750 --> 00:03:12,750 Speaker 1: just went for a walk. I live in Colorado and 58 00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:16,350 Speaker 1: it was a cold, crisp night, lots of stars. And 59 00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:19,810 Speaker 1: I was in a low place. I had been a 60 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:22,970 Speaker 1: lousy mother. And it's not that I was feeling like 61 00:03:23,010 --> 00:03:25,750 Speaker 1: a lousy mother. I had failed. I had failed my 62 00:03:25,790 --> 00:03:28,260 Speaker 1: children that day. I had not loved them well. I 63 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: had lost my temper. I needed them basically to be 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,900 Speaker 1: quiet and sit still, which is not what boys do. 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,660 Speaker 1: And then I wasn't feeling very excited about my husband 66 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:40,100 Speaker 1: coming home either. So I was just not. 67 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:42,500 Speaker 2: Really hurting, it sounds like. 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,100 Speaker 1: I was really hurting. I didn't have the capacity. I 69 00:03:45,140 --> 00:03:46,380 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to 70 00:03:46,420 --> 00:03:49,340 Speaker 1: do with the pain. But I was also in that place, 71 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:54,250 Speaker 1: as you said, keeping shame upon myself and then also 72 00:03:54,380 --> 00:03:58,450 Speaker 1: feeling bad for feeling bad. And then foot for walk, 73 00:03:58,470 --> 00:03:59,870 Speaker 1: just get me out of here. You don't want me 74 00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:01,730 Speaker 1: home and I don't want to be home. So I'm 75 00:04:01,930 --> 00:04:04,130 Speaker 1: on this walk and I'm just beginning to breathe. And 76 00:04:04,170 --> 00:04:07,350 Speaker 1: it's a gorgeous night. And so my heart lifted just 77 00:04:07,410 --> 00:04:09,630 Speaker 1: in the beauty. And I looked up at these stars 78 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:14,500 Speaker 1: and said, Good job, God. Well done on the stars. 79 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: You did a nice, nice work there. And I heard 80 00:04:18,220 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: him say, and this is the first time I ever 81 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: heard in my spirit, what was God say, I'm glad 82 00:04:23,810 --> 00:04:25,109 Speaker 1: you like it, my darling. 83 00:04:25,890 --> 00:04:26,250 Speaker 2: Wow. 84 00:04:28,210 --> 00:04:30,990 Speaker 1: I heard this. I'm glad you like it, my darling. 85 00:04:31,190 --> 00:04:33,530 Speaker 1: So here I hear, and I know it's, I think 86 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:35,390 Speaker 1: it's God, because I'm actually not quite sure if it's 87 00:04:35,450 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: okay that he called me my darling. Like, is that 88 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:41,930 Speaker 1: all right? And then also- wait, you're going to call 89 00:04:41,940 --> 00:04:45,250 Speaker 1: me an endearing name in the midst of what we 90 00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:48,850 Speaker 1: both know is not a stellar moment or stellar season 91 00:04:48,890 --> 00:04:52,110 Speaker 1: of my life. So I ended that walk kind of 92 00:04:52,170 --> 00:04:55,270 Speaker 1: just undone by that, went home and was my habit. 93 00:04:55,290 --> 00:04:57,969 Speaker 1: And that season, it was just reading some scripture right 94 00:04:57,990 --> 00:05:00,390 Speaker 1: before bed. So I reached for my Bible, opened it 95 00:05:00,510 --> 00:05:03,390 Speaker 1: up anywhere. And it was the song of songs where 96 00:05:03,410 --> 00:05:07,350 Speaker 1: it said, how beautiful you are, my darling. And so 97 00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:10,950 Speaker 1: I knew in that moment, that was God. And that 98 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: God wasn't rejecting me. He wasn't naming me a failure 99 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:19,859 Speaker 1: just because I was failing. He was still relating to 100 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,650 Speaker 1: me as his beloved one. And that's who I was, 101 00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:28,510 Speaker 1: regardless of the moment or the season or the sorrow. 102 00:05:29,089 --> 00:05:32,610 Speaker 1: That shifted things. That made me really also look into 103 00:05:32,630 --> 00:05:35,349 Speaker 1: the word beloved because I just thought, I didn't know 104 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: what it meant. I thought it was a word that 105 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: you used at weddings, honestly. And then to go, no, no, wait, 106 00:05:41,020 --> 00:05:48,380 Speaker 1: beloved means dearly loved. It's cherished. It's almost sweethearts. And 107 00:05:48,420 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: to learn in the scriptures, no, he calls me that. 108 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,420 Speaker 1: He calls you that. He calls the believers, the body 109 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,780 Speaker 1: of Christ, they are his beloved. And so I wanted 110 00:05:57,980 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: and needed to know, well, what does that mean? What 111 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,300 Speaker 1: does it mean more to rest in the reality that 112 00:06:06,339 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: regardless of my behavior, or circumstances or sorrow, I am 113 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: the beloved of God. And so I did. And I 114 00:06:17,380 --> 00:06:20,300 Speaker 1: began to pursue that and to pursue knowing him like that. 115 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,860 Speaker 1: And that is what changed everything for me. 116 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:26,380 Speaker 2: I'm sitting and listening to your story of all times 117 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: for him to speak to you. And really, you said 118 00:06:28,740 --> 00:06:32,140 Speaker 2: you were having all this shame. What a counter to that. 119 00:06:32,170 --> 00:06:34,580 Speaker 2: I know it was a journey. Because I've read your book. 120 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: I know it was a journey of really getting to 121 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,510 Speaker 2: know him and experiencing him on this deep, intimate level. 122 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:43,650 Speaker 2: In that moment, though, did you come home a little 123 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:45,430 Speaker 2: different because of that encounter? 124 00:06:45,910 --> 00:06:50,609 Speaker 1: I did. I was almost blushing. If this is true, 125 00:06:51,029 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: this is a God I haven't known. I honor God. 126 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,890 Speaker 1: He is holy, is high and lifted up. But a 127 00:06:57,930 --> 00:07:01,310 Speaker 1: God that would speak to me so tenderly and personally 128 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,429 Speaker 1: is not the God that I had a relationship with. 129 00:07:05,010 --> 00:07:08,789 Speaker 1: And to hear that, it really ended me to know 130 00:07:08,830 --> 00:07:12,510 Speaker 1: that in that moment, I was excelling. I had just 131 00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:16,450 Speaker 1: led someone to Christ. I had just done some amazing thing. 132 00:07:16,510 --> 00:07:19,570 Speaker 1: And now I'm your, you know, now you love me. 133 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:22,110 Speaker 1: But in the midst of the nitty gritty, in the 134 00:07:22,370 --> 00:07:26,860 Speaker 1: mud of life, You called me darling. Say what? I 135 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: need to know more. I need to know more about 136 00:07:29,170 --> 00:07:32,550 Speaker 1: this love because if that's true and it did, it 137 00:07:32,650 --> 00:07:35,790 Speaker 1: is true. It began to let other weights come off 138 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:38,450 Speaker 1: and shackles come off and pressure that I was putting 139 00:07:38,510 --> 00:07:41,930 Speaker 1: on myself to get it right in order to be 140 00:07:42,010 --> 00:07:46,450 Speaker 1: loved rather than resting in the reality that I am 141 00:07:46,650 --> 00:07:51,010 Speaker 1: profoundly loved and that actually nothing I do can change that. 142 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:54,050 Speaker 1: And to begin to really let that travel from my 143 00:07:54,110 --> 00:07:58,050 Speaker 1: head to my heart, saturate myself, marinate myself in his love, 144 00:07:58,250 --> 00:08:00,810 Speaker 1: meditate on his love, and let that begin to do 145 00:08:00,890 --> 00:08:05,110 Speaker 1: its transforming work inside. It rocked my world. 146 00:08:05,870 --> 00:08:09,590 Speaker 2: I think so many of us, we might know intellectually, 147 00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: like we read the scriptures, right? I have loved you 148 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: with an everlasting love and for God so loved the world. 149 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: He gave his only son and. 150 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:16,820 Speaker 1: All the things. 151 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,940 Speaker 2: But I think it's pretty, from my perspective, it's pretty... 152 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:25,650 Speaker 2: common for there to be this disconnect between what we 153 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:28,050 Speaker 2: know in our head. And like you said, marinating, soaking 154 00:08:28,090 --> 00:08:31,210 Speaker 2: it in. I love your imagery there. So what are 155 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:33,190 Speaker 2: some reasons maybe for our listeners who are like, you 156 00:08:33,230 --> 00:08:35,929 Speaker 2: know what? I just feel really distant. What's going on here? 157 00:08:36,370 --> 00:08:37,390 Speaker 2: What might be some reasons? 158 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: Oh, there's all kinds of reasons. First is just, we've 159 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,300 Speaker 1: learned him wrong and we need to learn him rightly. 160 00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:48,170 Speaker 1: For one thing, we can listen to those verses and think, 161 00:08:48,230 --> 00:08:50,190 Speaker 1: oh yeah, God loves me. Well, he kind of, that's 162 00:08:50,250 --> 00:08:52,850 Speaker 1: who he is. It's kind of his job. That's what 163 00:08:52,890 --> 00:08:56,050 Speaker 1: he does without being able to make the transition to, 164 00:08:56,090 --> 00:08:59,750 Speaker 1: you know, he loves me. He loves me. How about this? 165 00:08:59,830 --> 00:09:06,410 Speaker 1: He likes me. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And then there's 166 00:09:06,429 --> 00:09:10,010 Speaker 1: different aspects of knowing God. Many, many people come to 167 00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:14,059 Speaker 1: know God and pray, God, our father. For me, my 168 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: relationship with the Trinity came through Jesus. I always prayed 169 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:21,420 Speaker 1: to Jesus. It was a while to learn God as 170 00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: my father, but that was because of my own broken 171 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,829 Speaker 1: relationship with my dad. You know, you've talked about how 172 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:31,010 Speaker 1: we learn who God our father is through a relationship 173 00:09:31,410 --> 00:09:34,530 Speaker 1: with our dad for good or ill. And what I 174 00:09:34,570 --> 00:09:39,589 Speaker 1: needed to do is to have that unearthed, have God 175 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,300 Speaker 1: Pull back the curtain on what was I believing about 176 00:09:43,340 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: what he was like. Nobody had a perfect dad. I didn't. 177 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Nobody did. So everybody got wounded there. And for most 178 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,330 Speaker 1: of us, it couldn't be in a place of performance. 179 00:09:53,530 --> 00:09:56,330 Speaker 1: I will love you if, and I will love you when. 180 00:09:56,350 --> 00:09:57,610 Speaker 1: That's kind of. 181 00:09:57,630 --> 00:10:00,179 Speaker 2: Our world, right? That's what we encounter. It is. is. 182 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: It is our world. Do this. Meet these standards. Weigh this. 183 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: Look like this. Perform in this way. Believe this. Then 184 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,510 Speaker 1: you are worthy of love. And so I need it. 185 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,540 Speaker 1: And we all need a different aspects of our relationship. 186 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,510 Speaker 1: And to do an excavation in our hearts. And in 187 00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:24,430 Speaker 1: our stories of love, what we have learned love is, 188 00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: is love trustworthy or is love painful? Is love beautiful 189 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: or is it risky beyond taking the risk for? So 190 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,939 Speaker 1: there's not a person alive that is not in some 191 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,010 Speaker 1: place of the journey, which is increasing throughout our lives 192 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:45,980 Speaker 1: of needing more healing. and revelation of who God truly 193 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,969 Speaker 1: is as the lover of our souls, as the love 194 00:10:49,070 --> 00:10:52,449 Speaker 1: of our life. And to know that he not only 195 00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:56,090 Speaker 1: loves us, he not only knows us, but he wants 196 00:10:56,170 --> 00:11:00,369 Speaker 1: us to know him. He wants us to be captured 197 00:11:00,530 --> 00:11:03,179 Speaker 1: by him. I mean, he tells us, Jesus says, what's 198 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: the first and greatest commandment? He says, love me. That's 199 00:11:05,740 --> 00:11:07,580 Speaker 1: what I want. I want you to love me. And 200 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:08,219 Speaker 1: he does. 201 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,270 Speaker 2: When you say it that way, that's actually... Like just 202 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:14,250 Speaker 2: makes you pause, right? That God, the son out of 203 00:11:14,390 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 2: all the things he wants is our love in return. 204 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: Go on that. That just, wow. Yes. 205 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: He's so vulnerable with us. And that this God of 206 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,660 Speaker 1: the universe would, we are made in his image. We 207 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: desire to be loved. We desire to be known. That 208 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,210 Speaker 1: makes sense that that's what he wants to. That's the 209 00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:35,030 Speaker 1: one thing we can give him without him just claiming 210 00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:37,290 Speaker 1: it on his own. And he won't claim it unless 211 00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:42,460 Speaker 1: we freely offer it. And then. Oh, the joy that 212 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: we bring him. It's that journey of getting to know him. 213 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,310 Speaker 1: Like you would get to know you're a good friend. 214 00:11:49,550 --> 00:11:51,730 Speaker 1: Or if you're married, like you would know your spouse. 215 00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:55,550 Speaker 1: It's not just, here's an example, knowing about the ocean. 216 00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:58,110 Speaker 1: Maybe you live in Kansas. That's where I grew up. 217 00:11:58,510 --> 00:11:59,430 Speaker 1: And I read about the ocean. 218 00:11:59,450 --> 00:12:00,490 Speaker 2: I'm actually in Nebraska right now. 219 00:12:00,890 --> 00:12:02,110 Speaker 1: Nebraska, right. 220 00:12:02,290 --> 00:12:02,689 Speaker 2: Yes. 221 00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:06,070 Speaker 1: So I would read about the ocean. I saw pictures 222 00:12:06,110 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: of the ocean. I knew a lot about the ocean. 223 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,930 Speaker 1: But then we visited California and I got in the ocean. 224 00:12:12,929 --> 00:12:17,110 Speaker 1: One's the head knowledge and the other is the experiential knowledge. 225 00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:22,090 Speaker 1: One was interesting. The other was life transforming. So that's 226 00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:25,390 Speaker 1: the invitation from God. He asks us to yada him 227 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,580 Speaker 1: in Hebrew or to gnosis him in the Greek. And 228 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:35,220 Speaker 1: what it means is an experiential knowing, a deep personal knowing. relational, 229 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:38,730 Speaker 1: mutual shared knowing of one another. 230 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes there can be, we may not recognize that we 231 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,140 Speaker 2: have these barriers in our soul. Like they might be 232 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,469 Speaker 2: a little subconscious or buried down or intellectualized out of 233 00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:59,729 Speaker 2: the way, I guess, out of our awareness. But I 234 00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:03,730 Speaker 2: think sometimes when we've been hurt, almost instinctively, we can 235 00:13:03,809 --> 00:13:09,790 Speaker 2: create these self-protective barriers. How often does that impact our 236 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: relationship with God? 237 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: All the time. And you think about a sea anemone 238 00:13:14,740 --> 00:13:18,340 Speaker 1: or those creatures that you touch and they just pull back. Well, 239 00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:21,220 Speaker 1: of course you do. You put your hand into a flame, 240 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:23,660 Speaker 1: you pull it back and you know, you're not going 241 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: to do that again. Especially when we're young, we learn 242 00:13:26,420 --> 00:13:31,460 Speaker 1: self-protective strategies to keep us from being harmed once again. 243 00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: And when we're young, that's smart. You need that. But 244 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: as we grow up, we're not a child anymore and 245 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,340 Speaker 1: we can begin to grow up and learn things that 246 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,450 Speaker 1: that's self-protective strategy works for me. Then it's actually hurting 247 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:51,660 Speaker 1: me now. It's actually hindering me now. God is so 248 00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: gentle and kind and merciful with us. I think if 249 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,420 Speaker 1: he showed us everything at once, we would be on 250 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: the floor, not able to get up. But step by gentle, 251 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,580 Speaker 1: tender step, the scriptures say, draw close to God and 252 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,490 Speaker 1: he will draw close to you. When we respond to 253 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,550 Speaker 1: his invitation and we invite him in more and more, 254 00:14:12,429 --> 00:14:17,170 Speaker 1: incremental step, faith by faith step, He will reveal those 255 00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:20,170 Speaker 1: things to us and he will reveal himself to us. 256 00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:22,650 Speaker 1: And he will ask us just as he does in 257 00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:26,510 Speaker 1: Revelations 3.20 when he's knocking at our door. I'm knocking, 258 00:14:26,690 --> 00:14:28,350 Speaker 1: invite me in. And that book, as you know, is 259 00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:30,850 Speaker 1: written to Christians. So there are places that we have 260 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:34,650 Speaker 1: shut him out. Like do not enter sign is on 261 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:37,270 Speaker 1: our door. He's knocking because he wants to come in. 262 00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:41,690 Speaker 1: He wants to bring healing. and freedom to us. He 263 00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:44,550 Speaker 1: wants to reveal himself to us. That's why Jesus came. 264 00:14:44,570 --> 00:14:46,690 Speaker 1: That's what the Holy Spirit is all about. Let me 265 00:14:46,810 --> 00:14:50,830 Speaker 1: show you who Jesus is and how profoundly, deeply, unchangeably, 266 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:55,070 Speaker 1: immeasurably loved you are in this moment. And let me 267 00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:59,210 Speaker 1: come into your story, your story of love, your story 268 00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:04,250 Speaker 1: of pain, your holy story, and help not only heal it, 269 00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:07,530 Speaker 1: but to rewrite it in the light of my love 270 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: for you. He wants to do that. So it's really gentle. 271 00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:14,250 Speaker 1: It just begins with wherever he is knocking, whatever area 272 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:17,790 Speaker 1: he's stirring up and to say, yeah, come on in here. 273 00:15:18,090 --> 00:15:20,150 Speaker 1: I need you here. And he will come. 274 00:15:21,170 --> 00:15:23,530 Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the tension 275 00:15:23,570 --> 00:15:26,110 Speaker 2: as someone who's just beginning, right? And they're trying to 276 00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:29,650 Speaker 2: open themselves up to the Lord and to this new 277 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,220 Speaker 2: way of relating and experiencing this deep intimacy, this deep love. 278 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,790 Speaker 2: It might feel uncomfortable, right? So what would you say 279 00:15:36,890 --> 00:15:38,890 Speaker 2: to the one who's like, they're kind of still in 280 00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:41,450 Speaker 2: that messy middle. Like I'm reaching for God. I got 281 00:15:41,490 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: this shame. I got this guilt. I got all these 282 00:15:43,620 --> 00:15:45,859 Speaker 2: doubts and deception. I don't know what to do with, 283 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,260 Speaker 2: but I'm just trying to come. And I feel like 284 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: I am just coming undone. What would you say to 285 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:54,660 Speaker 2: them in that messy middle? 286 00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:57,380 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, just mercy. God is tender and slow. And 287 00:15:57,420 --> 00:16:00,390 Speaker 1: I think of a dear friend of mine who suffered 288 00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:05,380 Speaker 1: severe sexual abuse as a child. So the word intimacy 289 00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: is terrifying to her. And to come close to God 290 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:13,580 Speaker 1: feels like the last thing she wants to do. So 291 00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:16,300 Speaker 1: one of the first things just to say is intimacy 292 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,590 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the physicality. This is a soul, 293 00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:24,350 Speaker 1: a spiritual closeness. It has to do with the proximity 294 00:16:24,370 --> 00:16:27,490 Speaker 1: of a heart to heart connection. And then to know 295 00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:30,430 Speaker 1: that our God understands our story more than we do. 296 00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:36,180 Speaker 1: He is merciful. He is compassionate. He grieves even what 297 00:16:36,220 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: we haven't yet been able to grieve. So I think 298 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,140 Speaker 1: what I would start with is just that. No, you're okay. 299 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: You're okay. Actually, you need to go through this process 300 00:16:47,370 --> 00:16:50,970 Speaker 1: of not wanting to, of anger, of grief. You need 301 00:16:51,270 --> 00:16:55,770 Speaker 1: tears shed on your own behalf. And in it, how 302 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:58,530 Speaker 1: beautiful that you are reading the word of God. How 303 00:16:58,710 --> 00:17:02,010 Speaker 1: fabulous that you are in the scriptures. You can hold 304 00:17:02,130 --> 00:17:04,889 Speaker 1: on to that. And then what I would encourage people 305 00:17:04,930 --> 00:17:08,510 Speaker 1: beginning is to ask them, when you pray to God, 306 00:17:09,150 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: where are you praying? Are you praying to the God 307 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: up in the heavens? Or are you praying to the 308 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: God who has made his residence within your heart? Jesus 309 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,590 Speaker 1: is in our hearts through faith. So when we are 310 00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:25,649 Speaker 1: communing with God and we are praying, the practice is 311 00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:30,090 Speaker 1: actually to sink in and commune with him. He already is. 312 00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:33,540 Speaker 1: He's already closer than our breath. And to begin to 313 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: take the time to pause to maybe you have 10 minutes, 314 00:17:37,660 --> 00:17:40,300 Speaker 1: maybe even an hour, but to get quiet and to 315 00:17:40,460 --> 00:17:46,870 Speaker 1: ask Holy Spirit to help you connect with Jesus inside 316 00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:49,110 Speaker 1: of you. That would be the beginning. 317 00:17:50,109 --> 00:17:54,010 Speaker 2: Yeah. So what, moving forward a little bit, what does 318 00:17:54,330 --> 00:17:57,380 Speaker 2: vulnerability with God look like? 319 00:17:58,180 --> 00:18:00,620 Speaker 1: Such a good question. I think when you're moving towards 320 00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: relationship towards anyone, there's risk involved. But vulnerability with God 321 00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: does take the risk again. But it also takes the 322 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,580 Speaker 1: rebirth of hope that you dare to risk again. And 323 00:18:14,619 --> 00:18:18,900 Speaker 1: what you're risking is being honest with him, coming to 324 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,690 Speaker 1: him with your authentic self. It's true. He already knows 325 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:26,350 Speaker 1: everything anyway. But just with other people, we want to 326 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:29,570 Speaker 1: show our best face. We can do that with him. 327 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:33,669 Speaker 1: This area, maybe it's in our parenting. Maybe it's in 328 00:18:33,710 --> 00:18:36,540 Speaker 1: our friendships. Maybe it's even our work life. You are 329 00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:40,820 Speaker 1: not invited here. I'm doing fine right here. So the 330 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,700 Speaker 1: vulnerability comes with risking opening up that area of your 331 00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:46,659 Speaker 1: life and go, I'm going to invite you to get 332 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: your hands on this. You can come in. One of 333 00:18:49,859 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: the stories I love is from Mark 5 with the 334 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,139 Speaker 1: woman with the issue of blood. 335 00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:54,869 Speaker 2: She is. 336 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:59,540 Speaker 1: seen every doctor, spent every dime, done every treatment, none 337 00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:03,740 Speaker 1: of it is working. But in her risk and her 338 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,139 Speaker 1: vulnerability to illegally come and press through the crowd to 339 00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: just touch Jesus's garment for healing, and she does it, 340 00:19:12,140 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: she falls at his feet and the scriptures say, she 341 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: tells him her whole story. Other versions, she tells him 342 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: her whole truth. She comes to him with everything she 343 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: is as a woman, with everything she is not, with 344 00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: that vulnerability and risk to go, I'm going to trust 345 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: that here I'm failing, here I'm soaring, here I'm a mess, 346 00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: and I'm going to risk believing that you're not going 347 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: to reject me. And he doesn't. In fact, because of 348 00:19:40,530 --> 00:19:43,830 Speaker 1: her faith, she is healed. He calls her my daughter. 349 00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:46,550 Speaker 1: He recognizes her as one of his own. So the 350 00:19:46,650 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: vulnerability to say, I'm in pain, I'm here again, and 351 00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: you haven't shown up yet. And it's been a number 352 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,620 Speaker 1: of years in this thing, but I'm going to come 353 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: to you again with hope. That's incredibly vulnerable and vulnerability 354 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: is beautiful. 355 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. How long would you say it took you? So 356 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,899 Speaker 2: you mentioned this was 30 years ago. Yeah. What did 357 00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: that process look like for you as you went through this? Okay, 358 00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:15,740 Speaker 2: I heard God, he got my attention. He kind of 359 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 2: shook my world to where you're at now. What I 360 00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:21,130 Speaker 2: sense reading your content and from what I know about 361 00:20:21,150 --> 00:20:23,570 Speaker 2: both you and your husband, actually, that this really deep 362 00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:26,630 Speaker 2: relationship that you have with him now. So what was 363 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:30,350 Speaker 2: that journey like for you? And as you talk about 364 00:20:30,369 --> 00:20:31,990 Speaker 2: the journey, I want to hear a little bit about 365 00:20:32,050 --> 00:20:36,129 Speaker 2: the struggle because what I want the listener to hear is, 366 00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:38,940 Speaker 2: Is when they are in the middle of the struggle 367 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,220 Speaker 2: and they're like, it's not working for me. Something's wrong 368 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:41,419 Speaker 2: with me. 369 00:20:41,460 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: I can't do this. Well, that story I told is 370 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,869 Speaker 1: 30 years old and it's still profound in my life. 371 00:20:50,550 --> 00:20:53,850 Speaker 1: In all of our relationships, friendships, and with God, there 372 00:20:53,930 --> 00:20:58,020 Speaker 1: is an ebb and flow. I remember that having that 373 00:20:58,060 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: time and thinking, this is it now. This is my 374 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: relationship with God. I'm going to hear his voice. He's 375 00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:05,860 Speaker 1: going to sweetly whisper into my ear for the rest 376 00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: of my days. And I did have a beautiful season 377 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,820 Speaker 1: of that. In that moment, I did have a time 378 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:16,060 Speaker 1: of just relishing his love. And I started hearing about, 379 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,460 Speaker 1: for me, a woman who was doing a teaching in 380 00:21:18,510 --> 00:21:21,910 Speaker 1: her home where she was talking about intimacy with Jesus 381 00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:25,740 Speaker 1: and actually ministering to his heart. And worshiping him is 382 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,500 Speaker 1: the highest thing. She would like pray for people and 383 00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: they would be real things. And she would see and like, 384 00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: what is happening? I don't know about this realm of Christianity. 385 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,940 Speaker 1: And I'm so desperately hungry for it. So that was 386 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that propelled me. I found her 387 00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:42,939 Speaker 1: and had a time of worship at her house. And 388 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,810 Speaker 1: in this time of worship, I saw in my imagination, 389 00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:49,490 Speaker 1: I saw Jesus and I saw him come to me. 390 00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:53,609 Speaker 1: That was brand new. And we did an exchange of hearts. 391 00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:55,790 Speaker 1: He gave me his heart. I gave him mine. And 392 00:21:55,810 --> 00:22:00,150 Speaker 1: I went, what? I can see Jesus. I can love him. 393 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,410 Speaker 1: I can encounter him through worshiping him. So worshiping him 394 00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:07,940 Speaker 1: became a priority of my life. And I created a 395 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: space where I would worship him. I would sit at 396 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: least an hour every day. I had young children, so 397 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,300 Speaker 1: we would exchange babysitting once a week so I could 398 00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: have a three-hour window. It was amazing. And it lasted days. 399 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: For a long, months, it lasted months. I had another 400 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:27,310 Speaker 1: season in 2019 where I had a lot of space 401 00:22:27,530 --> 00:22:29,730 Speaker 1: and just pursued him and needing to know him more 402 00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:33,570 Speaker 1: and wanting to experience him, wanting to feel his presence, 403 00:22:34,090 --> 00:22:37,129 Speaker 1: wanting to see him with my sanctified imagination, wanting to 404 00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:39,670 Speaker 1: hear his voice. And I had a lot of time 405 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:42,790 Speaker 1: to do that. And he came profoundly. And then I thought, 406 00:22:42,850 --> 00:22:45,390 Speaker 1: this is it now. This is the rest of my life. 407 00:22:45,690 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: This is what is going to be with Jesus every 408 00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:50,810 Speaker 1: single day. And then it wasn't. And then I went 409 00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:52,710 Speaker 1: to meet with him in my place where I would 410 00:22:52,730 --> 00:22:55,409 Speaker 1: meet with him throughout my life, different seasons. And I 411 00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:58,630 Speaker 1: didn't sense him. I didn't feel him. I couldn't hear him. 412 00:22:58,990 --> 00:23:00,629 Speaker 1: And so the first thing I would think was I'm 413 00:23:00,690 --> 00:23:03,970 Speaker 1: doing something wrong. What am I doing wrong? There's some 414 00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:07,730 Speaker 1: unconfessed sin in my life. Whereas it's a relationship and 415 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: there's ebbs and flows and he's growing us up. He's 416 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: maturing us. So even through those seasons to still keep 417 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:22,409 Speaker 1: that time sacred, spending time reading scriptures, marinating, having times 418 00:23:22,570 --> 00:23:27,270 Speaker 1: of prayer and developing a conversational intimacy, a union with God, 419 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: doing the steps, practicing the spiritual disciplines that are a 420 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,620 Speaker 1: great gift to us, even in the midst and waiting. 421 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,220 Speaker 1: You know, I miss you, God. I miss you. I 422 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,850 Speaker 1: want to feel you. I want to drive and reach 423 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,930 Speaker 1: over and feel like I'm holding your hand. And sometimes 424 00:23:44,970 --> 00:23:48,129 Speaker 1: there are seasons when that is real and true. And 425 00:23:48,210 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: sometimes there are seasons when when that's not. But then 426 00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: to the deepening of our faith to know that our 427 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,940 Speaker 1: God promises based on his word that he will never 428 00:23:57,020 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: leave us or forsake us. He will never go away. 429 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:05,550 Speaker 1: He's up to something else in our souls. He's always working, 430 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,419 Speaker 1: even in seasons of such sorrow and pain where we 431 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,710 Speaker 1: don't know where he is or why he is allowing 432 00:24:10,830 --> 00:24:14,990 Speaker 1: something to happen or have happened. To be clinging to 433 00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:18,530 Speaker 1: God and asking for him to come. There is a deep, 434 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: transformational work that is happening in us. Nothing is for nothing. 435 00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:27,699 Speaker 1: No tear is wasted. None of it. 436 00:24:36,970 --> 00:24:38,750 Speaker 2: Can you talk to me a little bit and we 437 00:24:38,790 --> 00:24:41,170 Speaker 2: need to, we're kind of coming up on time, but 438 00:24:41,330 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 2: you mentioned a fear I hear a lot. I hear so, 439 00:24:45,220 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 2: so often is I did nothing. something wrong. And I 440 00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:53,369 Speaker 2: think the way we conceptualize that as humans in a 441 00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:57,140 Speaker 2: broken world is God removes his relationship when we mess 442 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: up and he comes closer when we don't. So talk 443 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:02,020 Speaker 2: to us about If the person's like, how do I 444 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 2: know I made this mistake 10 years ago, whatever, or 445 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:07,459 Speaker 2: five years ago or five minutes ago. And now all 446 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,740 Speaker 2: of a sudden God feels distant. How can they tell 447 00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: the difference between, okay, I am not living aligned with 448 00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:17,330 Speaker 2: him for whatever reason. And I, and I need to 449 00:25:17,369 --> 00:25:21,350 Speaker 2: do some business in my heart versus God is doing 450 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,150 Speaker 2: a deeper work in my soul, teaching me to hold 451 00:25:23,230 --> 00:25:26,270 Speaker 2: on to those promises or whatever that he's given. Yeah. 452 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: That's good. I love that. I'm just thinking about we 453 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,180 Speaker 1: work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It's so 454 00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:34,699 Speaker 1: much of it is a mystery, but there's also the 455 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:37,340 Speaker 1: reality that we are living in a world at war 456 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,540 Speaker 1: and there's another player on the stage. There's us, there's 457 00:25:42,580 --> 00:25:45,820 Speaker 1: the Trinity, and there is an enemy who is alive 458 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,369 Speaker 1: and well and bent on our destruction. So often in 459 00:25:49,450 --> 00:25:54,649 Speaker 1: our own stories, we think that Why would we suffer 460 00:25:54,730 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: spiritual attack? Why would we be a victim of that 461 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,300 Speaker 1: when we've got this little life? Why would we even care? 462 00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: But we learn in 1 Peter 5.8 that every Christian 463 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,189 Speaker 1: in the world is under regular spiritual assault, and he 464 00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:12,990 Speaker 1: names it as suffering. So there's that aspect as well 465 00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:15,590 Speaker 1: that we need to take into account of when we 466 00:26:15,650 --> 00:26:21,409 Speaker 1: are feeling shame, diminished, nothing but a failure. far from God. 467 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:24,390 Speaker 1: He must be displeased with us. That may not be 468 00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:28,129 Speaker 1: our own inner dialogue. That could be the enemy of 469 00:26:28,210 --> 00:26:30,929 Speaker 1: our souls saying, yeah, you're right. You're a failure. He 470 00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:33,430 Speaker 1: wants nothing to do with you. You better just... So 471 00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:35,699 Speaker 1: one of the things that I write about and we 472 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: have to talk about as well in the book is 473 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: the fact that you live in a world at war 474 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: and you are equipped to stand against the lies of 475 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,909 Speaker 1: the enemy. You can... And that will clear some of 476 00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:48,109 Speaker 1: the stage so that you can get to the deeper 477 00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:51,470 Speaker 1: realities of the fact that you are loved in this moment. 478 00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:56,379 Speaker 1: I mean, just try it on. Just give it a shot. Like, yes, yes, 479 00:26:57,220 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: we have failed. We know what we did five minutes 480 00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:01,340 Speaker 1: ago and what we did or how we drove or 481 00:27:01,380 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: what we said. And try on not only repenting of 482 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: our sin, but that the reality that in this moment, 483 00:27:11,420 --> 00:27:15,390 Speaker 1: even in my lowest moment, When God looks at me, 484 00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:18,710 Speaker 1: he looks at me through the righteousness of his son. 485 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:20,570 Speaker 1: He looks at me through the blood of Jesus. And 486 00:27:20,850 --> 00:27:25,590 Speaker 1: I am a chosen and beloved child of God right now. 487 00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:29,590 Speaker 1: And I can't change that. The enemy can't change that. 488 00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:32,949 Speaker 1: My circumstances can't change that. That is who I am. 489 00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:36,030 Speaker 1: And I just encourage people, just try it on for 490 00:27:36,090 --> 00:27:38,450 Speaker 1: five minutes. Try it on for half an hour. And 491 00:27:39,050 --> 00:27:41,169 Speaker 1: then let it grow because that is what is true. 492 00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:49,010 Speaker 1: That's reality. And to base our lives, even our thought life, 493 00:27:49,070 --> 00:27:52,649 Speaker 1: what we believe about ourselves, not on our circumstances or 494 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:57,290 Speaker 1: our failures or our successes, but on what Jesus has 495 00:27:57,350 --> 00:28:00,770 Speaker 1: revealed in his word is true about us. I love that. 496 00:28:00,790 --> 00:28:03,990 Speaker 2: I'm actually going to ask you if you could pray 497 00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:07,270 Speaker 2: for our listeners right now. And I'm actually going to 498 00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:10,950 Speaker 2: ask if you could pray for two different listeners. One, 499 00:28:11,010 --> 00:28:12,790 Speaker 2: those who are listening, they're like, you know, I've had 500 00:28:12,810 --> 00:28:16,370 Speaker 2: a relationship with God for a long time. I don't 501 00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:19,390 Speaker 2: have this depth that you're talking about. That's what I want. 502 00:28:19,810 --> 00:28:22,710 Speaker 2: But then also those who are listening who have never 503 00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:26,370 Speaker 2: personally encountered Jesus and who are listening and saying, this 504 00:28:26,410 --> 00:28:30,340 Speaker 2: sounds like what my soul needs. I want to get 505 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,899 Speaker 2: to know, like for the first time, they've never ever 506 00:28:32,980 --> 00:28:37,780 Speaker 2: made that choice to say, Jesus, I want to experience 507 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,940 Speaker 2: your love in this way. So if you could pray 508 00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:43,740 Speaker 2: for both of those listeners, that would be awesome. 509 00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:49,790 Speaker 1: I would love to. Oh, Father, you know who is 510 00:28:49,850 --> 00:28:52,790 Speaker 1: listening and you know their heart and you know what 511 00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:57,750 Speaker 1: is stirring in them. So for the first person that 512 00:28:57,790 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: Jennifer asked, Do you know who you are, dear one? 513 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,460 Speaker 1: I'm just going to pray on your behalf that your 514 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:12,310 Speaker 1: desire for depth in your relationship with Jesus increases, that 515 00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:16,310 Speaker 1: it increases to the point that every day you say, 516 00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:20,970 Speaker 1: I want more of you. I need more of you. 517 00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:24,910 Speaker 1: I believe more is available. And I just speak to you. 518 00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:28,750 Speaker 1: It is. It is available. And so I pray for 519 00:29:29,370 --> 00:29:33,750 Speaker 1: each person, man or woman, to be able to set 520 00:29:33,790 --> 00:29:37,410 Speaker 1: apart time. Maybe it starts with 10 minutes a day 521 00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: to set apart that time and to get quiet and 522 00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: to ask Holy Spirit for help in knowing you and 523 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: feeling you and sensing you. And I pray Jesus for 524 00:29:49,460 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: a revelation of your love to come to them that 525 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: exceeds even their best dreaming exceed, blow them away. God 526 00:29:58,220 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: reveal your love for them in this moment, in this season, 527 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,810 Speaker 1: in this day, even right now, I pray that you 528 00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:07,620 Speaker 1: open up the ears of their hearts, open up the 529 00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:10,210 Speaker 1: eyes of their heart, that they can see and receive 530 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:13,950 Speaker 1: the depth of your love for them. And Jesus, for 531 00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:17,630 Speaker 1: the one who believes in you, has made the choice 532 00:30:17,650 --> 00:30:20,170 Speaker 1: to go, okay, I believe you are the son of God. 533 00:30:20,190 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: I want to follow you. I give you my heart. 534 00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: But I don't know about this encountering you. I believe 535 00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:32,220 Speaker 1: in you, but I have not experienced you. Jesus, you 536 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: are the God of experience. Jesus, I pray that you 537 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,420 Speaker 1: open up the eyes of their heart and reveal yourself 538 00:30:39,620 --> 00:30:42,580 Speaker 1: to them as the God who wants to be known. 539 00:30:43,340 --> 00:30:47,500 Speaker 1: From Genesis to Revelation, the invitation is to know you. 540 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: And when we know you, it is, we do learn 541 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: by experience. I pray that you would open up their 542 00:30:53,420 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: eyes to see the ways that you are revealing yourself 543 00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:58,070 Speaker 1: to them and that you have been. And the little 544 00:30:58,140 --> 00:31:00,430 Speaker 1: love notes and the things that they love, that they 545 00:31:00,510 --> 00:31:03,530 Speaker 1: see in the song, on the radio, and the beauty 546 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:05,710 Speaker 1: that is them and the friend that drops by and 547 00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:08,250 Speaker 1: the ways that you are coming for them. Even now, 548 00:31:08,350 --> 00:31:12,990 Speaker 1: I pray that they would recognize you, recognize your pursuit, 549 00:31:13,630 --> 00:31:17,670 Speaker 1: And then ask for the more. Father, I thank you 550 00:31:17,710 --> 00:31:20,770 Speaker 1: that you want us to yada you, to know you 551 00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:23,950 Speaker 1: by experience. And so we ask for that. And I 552 00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:29,030 Speaker 1: ask for that for every listener, for increased healing, increased revelation, 553 00:31:29,310 --> 00:31:33,020 Speaker 1: and then increased love, both from you to know it 554 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:38,790 Speaker 1: and for you in response. In Jesus' name. Amen. 555 00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:42,830 Speaker 2: That was beautiful. Stacey, this has been such an encouraging conversation. 556 00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. And thank you so much 557 00:31:45,410 --> 00:31:48,140 Speaker 2: for the heart and the tenderness that you brought in 558 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: your book. So for our listeners, again, it's called The 559 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,940 Speaker 2: Ladder of Love, a pathway to emotional healing and spiritual 560 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,900 Speaker 2: intimacy with Jesus. Let me read a little from the 561 00:31:57,940 --> 00:32:01,050 Speaker 2: back cover. Many women long for a deeper, and I'm 562 00:32:01,070 --> 00:32:02,610 Speaker 2: actually going to say men too, because I know you're 563 00:32:02,650 --> 00:32:07,490 Speaker 2: listening as well, long for a deeper, more experiential relationship 564 00:32:07,530 --> 00:32:10,810 Speaker 2: with Jesus. They go to church, read their Bible and pray, 565 00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:13,150 Speaker 2: yet still feel like they know God more in their 566 00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: heads than in their hearts. Shouldn't there be more? In 567 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,020 Speaker 2: her new book, New York Times bestselling author, Stacey Eldridge 568 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: reveals that scripture offers a beautiful intentional progression. of intimacy 569 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,950 Speaker 2: with God. These familiar metaphors, clay, sheep, servant, child, sibling, friend, bride, 570 00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:35,550 Speaker 2: aren't random images. They're rungs on a spiritual ladder that 571 00:32:35,770 --> 00:32:38,820 Speaker 2: leads us closer to God's heart. As we understand them, 572 00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: we begin to understand how he invites us to relate 573 00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:45,940 Speaker 2: to him. With her signature warmth, biblical depth, and guided prayers, 574 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,830 Speaker 2: Stacey helps readers address the heartaches that keep them from 575 00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:54,230 Speaker 2: drawing closer to God, remove the roadblocks that prevent healing, 576 00:32:54,270 --> 00:32:57,650 Speaker 2: learn to take prayerful pauses that allow Christ to minister 577 00:32:57,730 --> 00:33:01,170 Speaker 2: directly to their deepest needs, and so much more. And 578 00:33:01,610 --> 00:33:06,130 Speaker 2: you also have this in an e-book version, correct? 579 00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:09,980 Speaker 1: In an audio book version, which is, I think, Kind 580 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:13,060 Speaker 1: of a lovely way to listen to it because I 581 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,130 Speaker 1: do guided meditations or prayer encounters at the end of 582 00:33:16,170 --> 00:33:19,350 Speaker 1: the chapters. And then there's lovely music that comes and 583 00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:22,050 Speaker 1: you can just soak in it. So that's available. 584 00:33:22,430 --> 00:33:25,750 Speaker 2: For those, like you guys, you fall asleep to hearing 585 00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: how God deeply loves you each night. You have a 586 00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 2: new chapter and it just helps you lull into sleep 587 00:33:32,140 --> 00:33:36,340 Speaker 2: knowing that you're lovingly led and well cared for. Thank 588 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,750 Speaker 2: you for listening. Before you go, fun news. Christmas is coming, 589 00:33:40,790 --> 00:33:44,130 Speaker 2: and I'm celebrating with a huge giveaway featuring 20 wonderful 590 00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: Christian authors. Today, I'm highlighting six generous contributors. Heidi Main 591 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: is donating The Mistletoe Baby, a heartwarming Christmas romance about 592 00:33:51,940 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 2: a former bowl rider, a pregnant socialite, and an unexpected 593 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,780 Speaker 2: chance at love. Mary Alford is giving away Shattered Amish Identity, 594 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,270 Speaker 2: a suspenseful story about an Amish school teacher who discovers 595 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:07,020 Speaker 2: she may actually be a CIA agent. 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All these gifts, along 603 00:34:32,780 --> 00:34:36,470 Speaker 2: with many more, will go to one lucky winner to 604 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,150 Speaker 2: enter subscribe to my newsletter using the link in the 605 00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:43,130 Speaker 2: show notes. Current subscribers, you're automatically entered into the drawing. 606 00:34:43,469 --> 00:34:46,710 Speaker 2: The giveaway runs through December 1st and is open to 607 00:34:46,770 --> 00:34:51,819 Speaker 2: residents of the continental United States. Visit my website to 608 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,260 Speaker 2: see all of the other prizes. Good luck and Merry Christmas.