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Speaker 1: Anti Semitism is a topic that is surrounded by more

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Speaker 1: heat than light. I want to offer a fresh perspective

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Speaker 1: on it, speaking not as a Jew, but as a Christian.

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Speaker 1: Many Jews don't understand anti Semitism. This is especially true

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Speaker 1: of secular Jews. That's not coming from me, it's coming

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Speaker 1: from them.

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Speaker 2: I've been on some.

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Speaker 1: Jewish podcasts lately, both here and in Israel. One common

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Speaker 1: thing I hear. We don't understand anti Semitism. We have

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Speaker 1: no idea why they hate us so much. Here's an

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Speaker 1: ad that the Jewish billionaire Robert Kraft aired at the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl to combat anti Semitism.

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Speaker 3: He's there due Did you see that?

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Speaker 4: Should we tell him? Who?

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Speaker 2: Do not listen to that?

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Speaker 5: Thank you?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 5: I know how it feels. H Nah, they're not with them, bro, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: you're that's tripping.

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Speaker 3: What's your name?

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 1: It's the usual stereotype. The white kids don't like the

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Speaker 1: Jewish kid because he's Jewish. The black kid offers sympathy.

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Speaker 1: This is the standard nonsense the groups like the ADL,

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Speaker 1: the Anti Defamation League put out. It makes white people

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Speaker 1: the villain Jews and blacks the heroes. I cringe when

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Speaker 1: I see it, it's bigoted propaganda, and it's certainly not

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Speaker 1: going to do anything to combat antisemitism on the right.

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Speaker 1: These Jews don't understand antisemitism, but they're not alone. Anti

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Speaker 1: Semites don't understand antisemitism either. They rarely have ever bother

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Speaker 1: to define it. They see themselves as champions of truth, reality,

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Speaker 1: combatants against censorship and political correctness. They rightly say the

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Speaker 1: charge of antisemitism has been misused, overused, abused. From their perspective,

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Speaker 1: antisemitism is a meaningless term because it simply means you

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Speaker 1: don't like Jews, or you don't like Israel, or you

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Speaker 1: don't like what the Israeli government is doing. Currently, in

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Speaker 1: a long career spanning thirty years, I'm tackling this topic

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Speaker 1: for the first time. I made a film about Israel,

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Speaker 1: The Dragon's Prophecy, which which connects politics to the Bible.

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Speaker 1: It inspired me to think hard about these topics, not

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Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed, but because our country has an important

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Speaker 1: choice to make between Israel and radical Islam. America. First

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Speaker 1: sometimes means you have to choose your friends. You don't

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Speaker 1: get to choose your enemies. They choose you. A couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago, I spoke at the second Annual International

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Speaker 1: Conference on Combating Anti Semitism. Incidentally, for those of you

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Speaker 1: who care about such things, I spoke for free. My

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Speaker 1: usual speaking fee is pretty hefty, but I did this

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Speaker 1: one for nothing.

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Speaker 2: And so if you're wondering, idanush.

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Speaker 1: Whereas your seven thousand dollars, my answer is I didn't

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Speaker 1: get a penny. This trip cost me money, and this

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Speaker 1: is not typically my issue, but the Minister of Culture,

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Speaker 1: Amihi Chikli, made a video urging me to come. He

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Speaker 1: convinced me it was important to have a candid Christian perspective,

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Speaker 1: and so I went. Now, for a whole day, I

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Speaker 1: listened to people say they hate us because we're Jews,

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Speaker 1: or they hate us because we're Jewish.

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Speaker 2: So I began my talk.

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Speaker 1: It was really a conversation with a top Israeli podcaster,

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Speaker 1: Gottie taub By, challenging this premise.

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Speaker 6: I thought we would open here since there's been discussion

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Speaker 6: here of antisemitism in general by differentiating left antisemitism and

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Speaker 6: right antisemitism. One version was that these are two almost

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Speaker 6: symmetric parallel phenomenon, and there there are those who are

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Speaker 6: saying it's an entirely different thing where how would you

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Speaker 6: define them?

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Speaker 1: I think for me, the phenomenon of antisemitism is very

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Speaker 1: tricky because it is conventionally defined as a hatred of

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Speaker 1: the Jews for being Jews. I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: that explains of a phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: Let me give a thought experiment.

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Speaker 1: If we were to take Israel, move it out of

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Speaker 1: the region and take another country, let's say India, and

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Speaker 1: move it exactly into the spot where Israel is now,

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Speaker 1: it will be a little tight, a little tight. But

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Speaker 1: let's say you took a small group of Indians and

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Speaker 1: you move them here, and then there was all this

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Speaker 1: and the Indians were pro American and the Indians saw

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Speaker 1: themselves as Western, and you get this torrent of Islamic

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Speaker 1: hostility all targeting this little India sitting right now in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East. And the Indians said, we're being hated

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Speaker 1: because we're Indian. Well, no, you're being hated because of

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Speaker 1: your position.

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Speaker 7: You're being hated because of your allies, You're being hated

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Speaker 7: because of who you represent. You're being hated because of

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Speaker 7: the inferiority complics of the people around you. So my

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Speaker 7: point is, I think it is better to understand the

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Speaker 7: phenomenon in this kind of larger context.

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Speaker 1: What are the factors, By the way, some of them secular.

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Speaker 1: I think Ambassador huckerb Be touched on something that has

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Speaker 1: not been a big theme in this conference, and that

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Speaker 1: is the I'll call it the transcendental motive of antisemitism.

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Speaker 1: After my talk, I spoke to a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: an Israeli guy named Doron Spielman. I met him through

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Speaker 1: my interest in biblical archaeology. Doron hadn't heard my talk,

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Speaker 1: so I summarized it for him and he said, you

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Speaker 1: said that at the conference.

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Speaker 2: I said yeah, he said wow.

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Speaker 1: Then he said, fighting antisemitism has become a huge industry.

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Speaker 1: It's the biggest thing in Judaism. The secular Jews love it.

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Speaker 1: It gives them a cause. It's a unifying banner for

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Speaker 1: both the religious and the secular Jews. But I don't

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Speaker 1: like it because of what it replaces. And so I said,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean replaces what he said, Judaism. It

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Speaker 1: replaces Judaism. So now it's my turn to say, wow,

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Speaker 1: Judaism itself gets displaced by this ideological project to protect

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Speaker 1: Jews from those who are against them. Supposedly quote because

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Speaker 1: they are Jews. Now we're truly in La La land here.

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Speaker 1: Fighting antisemitism has become an industry. But there's another industry

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Speaker 1: that's forming in this country. It's the anti anti Semitism industry.

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Speaker 1: It's CEO Tucker Carlson, Director of public Relations Candice Owens,

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Speaker 1: Press Secretary Dave Smith. Nick Fouantes is sort of the

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Speaker 1: black sheep of this group, but no official position. Now

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Speaker 1: both industries are fraudulent. The first group is fighting an

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Speaker 1: imaginary phantom. The second group is fighting its own imaginary phantom.

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Speaker 1: We need to return to base camp to come down

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Speaker 1: to earth to avoid the errors of both groups. This

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Speaker 1: is not a debate about canceling anyone. When I post

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Speaker 1: on social media about Tucker, some people say, leave talker alone,

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Speaker 1: you don't try to cancel him. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: cancel him. Now some people are, I'm not. The cancellors

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Speaker 1: will say he's against us because we're Jewish. But that

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Speaker 1: is not Tucker's motivation. It's not Nick Fluent's motivation. I

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Speaker 1: don't even think Nick Fluentes is a real Nazi. Some

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Speaker 1: people will be surprised to hear me say this, But

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Speaker 1: I debated Nick. I got to see him up close.

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Speaker 1: Nick is a performance artist. He wants to be the

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Speaker 1: edgy man's edgy man. He wants to occupy the farthest

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Speaker 1: position on the spectrum. He wants to grow his following.

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Speaker 1: So here's the thought experiment. Line up, Some Jews give

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Speaker 1: Nick a pistol, You think Nick will go ahead and

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Speaker 1: shoot them. No, a real Nazi would do that. As

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Speaker 1: I said, Nick is not a real Nazi. He's a

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Speaker 1: guy who plays a Nazi on TV. It's very hard

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Speaker 1: for some Jews to understand that when they hear Nick

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Speaker 1: say what he says, But it's the truth. My problem

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Speaker 1: with Tucker and the anti anti Semitism camp is that

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Speaker 1: they give no reasons for their positions.

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Speaker 2: Where's the proof that Israel.

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Speaker 1: Is running American politic Where's the proof that Hamas is

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Speaker 1: not a terrorist organization but.

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Speaker 2: Rather a political group like the Labor Party.

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Speaker 1: Where's the proof that Christians fare better in the Muslim

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Speaker 1: Middle East than in Israel. We've heard a lot of insinuation,

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Speaker 1: We've heard from the Nun with the mustache, But where's

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Speaker 1: the actual evidence for these positions. Let's begin at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What is antisemitism now? I define it this way. Antisemitism

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Speaker 1: is hostility to Jews based on applying a moral standard

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Speaker 1: to them that you don't apply to anyone else. That's

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Speaker 1: it very simple definition. It doesn't try to look inside

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Speaker 1: people's heads. It's an objective standard that examines what people

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Speaker 1: actually say. Is taka Carlson and anti Samit?

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Speaker 2: Well, let's see.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed the Israeli Prime Minister that in Yahoo for

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Speaker 1: my film The Dragon's Prophecy. I posed to him Tucker's question,

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Speaker 1: are the Jews of today the descendants of the Jews

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Speaker 1: of the Bible? He answered it and did a bit

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Speaker 1: of a dunk on Tucker. So when I got ready

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Speaker 1: to post that clip on social media, I thought, let

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Speaker 1: me send it to Tucker so he doesn't feel blindsided.

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Speaker 2: So I sent it to Hucker.

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Speaker 1: I told him, hey, look, I asked the Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: of Israel your question. Tucker's reply was really weird. He said,

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Speaker 1: in effect, why are you calling me an anti Summite.

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Speaker 1: He attached a study which purported to show the Jews

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Speaker 1: today are only sixty percent of sixty five percent genetically

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Speaker 1: linked to the Jews of ancient times. Here's the point

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Speaker 1: Tucker is doing something with Jews that he would not

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Speaker 1: dare to do with other groups. Imagine posting a genetic

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Speaker 1: study showing that blacks in America are sixty or sixty

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Speaker 1: five percent related to blacks in Africa. Imagine saying to blacks,

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Speaker 1: you're not really black, you're not really from Africa because

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Speaker 1: you have only sixty percent of sixty five percent of

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Speaker 1: African genes. Tucker would never do that. He'd be destroyed

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Speaker 1: if he did that. So Tucker satisfies the definition I

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Speaker 1: gave earlier. He's applying to Jews a standard that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't apply across the board. Does that make Tucker an

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Speaker 1: anti Summite, Well you decide. I'm more interested in understanding

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon. Antisemitism is often lumped in with racism, but

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Speaker 1: the two are quite different. Racism involves looking down on

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Speaker 1: someone your inferior. Anti Semitism involves looking down in the sense,

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Speaker 1: but it also involves looking up.

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Speaker 2: Why up?

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Speaker 1: Because Jews are the most successful tribe in human history.

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Speaker 1: They are one of a group of successful tribes. Many

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Speaker 1: years ago, Joel Kotkin wrote a book about this. It

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Speaker 1: was called Tribes. Thomas Soul has also covered this topic

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Speaker 1: quite extensively. And what Kotkin and Soul show is that

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Speaker 1: there are many successful tribes, the Mormons, the Jews, the

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Speaker 1: overseas Chinese, the overseas Indians, the Episcopalians. These tribes do

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Speaker 1: disproportionately well wherever they are, and their success draws hostility

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Speaker 1: from the people around them. This is envy, and it's

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Speaker 1: the first important motive for anti Semitism. But it's not

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Speaker 1: the only motive, and perhaps it's not even the most

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Speaker 1: important motive. In my talk in Israel, I raised a

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Speaker 1: second motive, which I call the transcendental motive. I raised

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Speaker 1: it in connection with Milton's Paradise Lost. There's a scene

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Speaker 1: in Milton's Paradise Lost where Satan is observing for the

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Speaker 1: first time Adam and Eve, and he notices that they're

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Speaker 1: extremely beautiful, and he feels this hatred of them because

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Speaker 1: of how beautiful they are. This is envy, and this is,

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Speaker 1: in fact, I think, an important motive of anti Semitism.

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Speaker 1: It's maybe the most powerful secular motive that.

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Speaker 2: You can give.

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Speaker 1: And yet there's a second thing going on, and that

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Speaker 1: is that Satan is in a campaign against God, but

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Speaker 1: he can't overthrow God, and so he needs to go

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Speaker 1: to Plan B, and Plan B is to find the

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Speaker 1: things that God cares about and ruin them. So Adam

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Speaker 1: and Eve have done nothing to Satan, but Satan's malice

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Speaker 1: against them is a revenge scheme against the Creator himself.

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Speaker 1: Apply this logic now to the Jews. There is the

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Speaker 1: motive of envy which I mentioned, But the Jews have

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Speaker 1: also been God's chosen people, the mechanism by which you

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Speaker 1: can say the moral law it's transmitted.

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Speaker 2: To the world through the Jews.

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Speaker 1: And if you believe that there is a world behind

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Speaker 1: the world, and if you believe that there is a

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Speaker 1: cosmic battle between good and evil that rages in the world,

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Speaker 1: then it is not out of the question that what

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Speaker 1: we are seeing in anti Semitism.

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Speaker 2: Is truly a kind of.

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Speaker 1: Scheme by none other than the Devil himself to torment

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Speaker 1: the Jews as a form of revenge against God. This

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Speaker 1: would also extend to some degree to the Christians for

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Speaker 1: the same reason. So now you see, my many Jews,

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Speaker 1: secular Jews don't understand anti Semitism. They are blind to

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Speaker 1: the religious or trans sdental root of it. They can

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Speaker 1: only grasp the secular motive. The motive of envy, and

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Speaker 1: quite clearly that motive is insufficient. It cannot explain why

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Speaker 1: anti Semitism has been so universal, has shown itself in

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Speaker 1: pretty much all periods of history. Jews haven't always been

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Speaker 1: the most successful group, so the envy motive doesn't apply

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Speaker 1: in all places at all times. But Satan the devil

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Speaker 1: has been working against the Jews everywhere all the time.

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Speaker 1: The transcendental motive has a much greater explanatory power. As

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Speaker 1: a Christian, my real reason for being against anti Semitism

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Speaker 1: is that it's part of Satan's agenda. And who's the

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Speaker 1: main instrument for carrying out Satan's agenda today? The radical Muslims.

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Speaker 1: They are the problem, not the Jews. Iran, Turkey, Katar.

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Speaker 1: These are the countries we have to watch out for,

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Speaker 1: not Israel. We shouldn't be anti Semites because that's not

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Speaker 1: christian it's not America.

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Speaker 2: First.

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Speaker 1: Instead, we should be islam of vobes, because Isla is

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Speaker 1: what's inspiring. The radical Muslims and Islamopholks are the ones

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Speaker 1: most alert to the Satanic project to destroy Christianity and

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Speaker 1: America and the West.

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Speaker 2: And that's how I see it.

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Speaker 1: Peter Earl is an economist and senior fellow at the

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Speaker 1: American Institute for Economic Research. Peter, let me ask you,

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Speaker 1: Inflation seems to be like a feature of our economy,

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Speaker 1: sometimes high, it's sometimes low, but we always have it.

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Speaker 1: Why is this and how does inflation rob our money

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Speaker 1: of its value?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Well, inflation persists because modern monetary systems are built

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Speaker 3: around central banks like the FED, and those banks are

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Speaker 3: constantly expanding the supply of money. That enables government spending,

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Speaker 3: and it creates more money. And as governments run budget

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Speaker 3: deficits and banks as sender loans, central banks try to

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Speaker 3: keep that going by providing liquidity. So even when inflation

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Speaker 3: is considered low, it's rarely zero, and over time that matters.

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Speaker 3: Has more dollars chase the same number of goods and services.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't hit like a tax bill, but it slowly

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Speaker 3: erodes our money's purchasing power. And that's what happens now.

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Speaker 1: People are so used to this, but it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Always the case.

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Speaker 1: If we look back, for example, to the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: which was the era of the gold standard, we see that,

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Speaker 1: for example, a house in nineteen hundred didn't cost a

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Speaker 1: whole lot more than a century earlier in eighteen hundred.

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Speaker 2: What does this tell us about the gold standard?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. The long run price stability that we

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Speaker 3: see throughout US economic history reflects the discipline that's imposed

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Speaker 3: by tying money to a physical, physical commodity, in this case,

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Speaker 3: in the US gold and silver. Gold can't be created

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Speaker 3: on demand like paper. It has to be found, has

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Speaker 3: to be mined, has been processed and minted, then circulated,

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Speaker 3: and that limits how much money can grow over over

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Speaker 3: a period of time. And so with more table prices,

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Speaker 3: households and businesses were able to plan for years ahead,

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Speaker 3: even decades in the future, because they would have confidence

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Speaker 3: about what their money could buy.

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Speaker 1: Peter. If we look at gold today, some people would say, well,

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Speaker 1: gold doesn't do anything, It doesn't generate income of any sort.

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Speaker 2: You just kind of hold it.

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Speaker 1: So, and yet gold has gone up dramatically in price.

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Speaker 1: It was under fifty dollars in nineteen seventy one, it's

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Speaker 1: around what four thousand dollars today?

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Speaker 4: How do you explain this?

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Speaker 3: So the reason rising gold is less about gold becoming

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Speaker 3: more valuable than it is about dollars and money more

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Speaker 3: generally becoming less scarce. Since nineteen seventy one, the US

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Speaker 3: dollar has been only backed by institutional credibility as exposed

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Speaker 3: to being convertible to a physical asset, and since nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy one, the US dollar has lost purchasing power as

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Speaker 3: the FED has expanded the supply of money more and more.

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Speaker 3: The recent surge in the price of gold reflects a

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Speaker 3: lot of concerns about inflation, which hit levels seen in

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Speaker 3: four decades just a few years ago, and about the

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Speaker 3: US having thirty eight trillion dollars in public debt, and

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Speaker 3: so for that reason, gold's price history is a record

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Speaker 3: not only of investor demand, but of currency dilution and

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Speaker 3: worry as well.

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Speaker 1: We look at twenty twenty six what role should gold

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Speaker 1: precious medals play in an individual's portfolio or their plans

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Speaker 1: for the future.

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Speaker 3: Well, precious metals serve a useful role because they behave

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Speaker 3: differently from conventional financial assets. They aren't claims on earnings,

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Speaker 3: they don't have cash flows, they don't make any government

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Speaker 3: promises or deliver any But gold's independence is very important,

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Speaker 3: especially during periods of inflation, financial stress, or policy uncertainty.

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Speaker 3: Precious metals help reserve purchasing power and they reduce portfolio vulnerability.

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Speaker 3: So I mean they don't work really as a substitute,

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Speaker 3: and they should be a substitute, but rather they bring ballance.

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Speaker 3: Prescious metals work as a compliment to stocks and bonds

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Speaker 3: that is a replacement for them.

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Speaker 1: Guys, I want to tell you that I buy my

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Speaker 1: gold from gold Co. They are the best company to

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Speaker 1: do it, and they have a twenty twenty six gold

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Speaker 1: and Silver guide they would like to send you. It's

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Speaker 1: very easy to get it. Go to Dnesh goold dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's Denesh gold dot com. Peter, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for joining me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with Ambassador Huckabee. My Kuckabee. He is the

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Speaker 1: US Ambassador to Israel, and we're going to talk about theology.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about politics. Ambassador Huckabee, you are

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Speaker 1: the US Ambassador to Israel, but you are such a

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Speaker 1: pro israel man that there are those who would say

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Speaker 1: that you are Israel's ambassador to America more than you

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Speaker 1: are America's ambassador to Israel. True or false.

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Speaker 8: It's false because I am absolutely America's Ambassador to Israel.

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Speaker 8: But in that role because America and Israel has a

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Speaker 8: very unique partnership. Part of my job is not only

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Speaker 8: explaining the American position to the Israelis, but it's explaining

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Speaker 8: the value of our partnership to the Americans, because back

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Speaker 8: in the US there are a lot of people that

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Speaker 8: are saying, why are we doing so much for Israel?

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Speaker 4: They don't do anything for us.

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Speaker 8: I feel part of the obligation I have is to say,

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Speaker 8: wait a minute, you may not be aware of some

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Speaker 8: of the things that we benefit from in this relationship

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Speaker 8: and partnership, which is unlike any other.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree that US interests and Israeli interests are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the same.

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Speaker 8: I think they generally are the same. Every enemy that

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Speaker 8: Israel has is an enemy of America, whether it's Iron

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Speaker 8: for forty seven years saying death to Israel and death

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Speaker 8: to America all in the same sentence.

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Speaker 4: It's also true that there.

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Speaker 8: Are so many similarities in how we were formed as

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Speaker 8: both countries escaping the galloping terror of totalitarianism, both looking

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Speaker 8: for religious freedom, both looking for security and safety for

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Speaker 8: families who are threatened by where they were. It's important

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Speaker 8: to recognize the longer history. I think that it's ridiculous

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Speaker 8: when people say there's no connection well, of course there

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Speaker 8: is without Judaism, there's no Christianity. Without Judaism and Christianity,

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Speaker 8: there's no Western civilization. And without Western civilization, there is

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Speaker 8: no America. So one could say that America does owe

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Speaker 8: its spiritual and its moral roots all the way back

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Speaker 8: to Mount Mariah, when Abraham was told by God, this

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Speaker 8: is your land, and I'm going to reveal myself through it,

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Speaker 8: and you're going to be the light to a great world.

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Speaker 8: And then later when he gives the law to Moses

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Speaker 8: on Mount Sinai, that is really the essence, the foundation

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Speaker 8: and the formation of what will later be a law

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Speaker 8: that becomes both common law and now the describe law

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Speaker 8: in our constitution.

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Speaker 1: So here's a scenario I would envision. The United States

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Speaker 1: wants to maintain good relations with a good part of

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Speaker 1: the Muslim world. Now, obviously there are some bad guys.

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Speaker 1: I consider the Mulas in Iran to be bad guys.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Hamas has Bullah. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: there are countries we want to maintain good relations with.

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, for example, Jordan, Uae, the Amadis, the Bahrainis,

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Speaker 1: the Gulf Kingdoms, and so on. Now it could be

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Speaker 1: that those guys being Muslim have some identification with the Palestinians,

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Speaker 1: and so their idea would be, listen, you gotta make

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Speaker 1: some room for a Palestinian state, and maybe the United

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Speaker 1: States decides, well, you know what, we also want to

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Speaker 1: keep there are also people we want good relations with,

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Speaker 1: and so I can see the possibility where Israel goes

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Speaker 1: no Palestinian state, but these other Muslim countries are like, hey,

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Speaker 1: mister Trump, you need to make some room for a

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Speaker 1: Palestinian state.

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Speaker 4: But would not be a.

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Speaker 1: Case where let's say, American interests in Israeli interests are

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Speaker 1: not the same.

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Speaker 8: I'm not sure we are even close to that point,

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Speaker 8: because the President just made it clear that any acknowledgment

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Speaker 8: of our move toward first must have some serious reforms

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Speaker 8: within the Palestinian authority, reforms that have been demanded since

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Speaker 8: twenty seventeen but have not happened. Whether it's the pay

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Speaker 8: for Sleigh, which is the enriching of people who have

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Speaker 8: committed terrorist acts, people in prison in the Palestinian authority

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Speaker 8: who are there for murdering Jews get a nice stipend

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Speaker 8: for having murdered Jews. I think most people would find

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Speaker 8: that offensive and unacceptable. The US certainly does. It's a

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Speaker 8: violation even of US law unto the Taylor FORCEAC So

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Speaker 8: we cannot continue to push for something unless those reforms

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Speaker 8: are in place. The second big reform I would mention

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Speaker 8: is school textbooks. It's an atrocious thing that in schools

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Speaker 8: throughout the Palestinian authority as well as in Gaza, children

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Speaker 8: are taught from the time they were in the first

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Speaker 8: grade not only to hate Jews, but to aspire one

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Speaker 8: day to kill as many of them as possible for

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Speaker 8: the great rewards that will happen both in the life beyond,

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Speaker 8: but also the great rewards that will happen by the

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Speaker 8: payments that will come to you, and if you die.

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Speaker 4: They'll go to your family.

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Speaker 1: What do you say if people know these are mostly

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Speaker 1: on the left, but we are now hearing similar voices

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Speaker 1: on the right, and they will say that the bitterness

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Speaker 1: of the Palestinians in Gaza, and to some degree also

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Speaker 1: in Judea and Samara in the West Bank, is because

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Speaker 1: so many of the Palestinian children and civilians have been

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Speaker 1: just bulldozed, have been moved down. We've heard phrases of genocide.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Israel needed to kill as as

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Speaker 1: many people as it did, as many civilians as it

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Speaker 1: did to conduct this operation. Again said otherwise, was there

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Speaker 1: a leaner, better way to do it?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 8: If there was, Israel would have loved to have found it.

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Speaker 8: People forget that one of the reasons they continued in

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Speaker 8: an active war in Gaza was not because they wanted

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Speaker 8: to kill civilians, but because they wanted to get their

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Speaker 8: hostages out, who had been taken illegally, who then were

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Speaker 8: kept in captivity, who were being tortured, starved, raped, brutalized,

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Speaker 8: kept from their families, often kept by people who were

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Speaker 8: doctors and who were members of you and organizations like UNRA.

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Speaker 8: What's Israel supposed to do? Say, We're going to write

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Speaker 8: you a strongly worded letter. I've asked parents, if your

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Speaker 8: child were abducted and were taken into dark tunnels where

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Speaker 8: they were tortured and abused and starved.

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Speaker 4: What would be your action toward your children? Would it be?

438
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 8: Wow, I'm just going to wait it out and hope

439
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 8: that at some point out there in the future my

440
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 8: child gets allowed to leave. Are you going to say

441
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 8: I will scratch and claw and do whatever I have

442
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 8: to do to get my child out.

443
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 4: Of harm's way.

444
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 8: I don't know of a single parent who wouldn't do

445
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 8: whatever it took. Well, these were the sons and the daughters,

446
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 8: and the mothers, the fathers, the brothers and the sisters

447
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 8: of the Israelis, and they were being held hostage. Would

448
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 8: they have loved for this war to have ended on

449
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 8: October the eighth of twenty twenty three. Absolutely, they would

450
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 8: have it lasted as long as it did, because Hamas

451
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 8: wouldn't let the hostages go. And Hamas, this is a

452
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 8: very important point. People don't understand. The Israelis would announce

453
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 8: in advance where they were going to strike, which is

454
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 8: something the US doesn't even do when we're dealing in warfare.

455
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 8: But they would say, we're going to hit this address

456
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 8: this building because it is a front for rocket launchers.

457
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 8: It is a front for terror activity, So get out

458
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 8: of this, don't be there.

459
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 4: What did Amas do?

460
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 8: They moved civilians, oft in children, into those areas, knowing

461
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 8: that civilian casualties was a wonderful kind of tool of

462
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 8: propaganda for them. If Israel were serious about genocide, and

463
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 8: I've often said, if Israel is a genocidal nation, they're

464
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 8: terrible at it. They're really bad at genocide. They could

465
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 8: have wiped Gaza out in two and a half hours.

466
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 8: I mean, they have a military to passionate.

467
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: Had they done it on October eighth, I'm not even

468
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: sure that the world would have had much to criticize

469
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: them for, because in the aftermath of the attack, it's

470
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: almost as if by stretching it out, Israel increased the

471
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: level of moral scrutiny. Do you think Israel in a

472
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: way bungled it by not moving quicker, and just because

473
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: in an age of social media, if you're going to

474
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: drag it out, people forget the original offense, and then

475
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: they look and they see the kid rummaging through a

476
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: bunch of rubble in Gaza and they go that poor kid.

477
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 8: I think it's a fair assessment to say that it

478
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 8: may have been easier for Israel to have taken a

479
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 8: very hard our stance early on and ended it. However,

480
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 8: what people are not doing is giving Israel credit for

481
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 8: not doing that, because they did try it to prevent

482
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 8: collateral damage and prevent civilian deaths, they went to lengths

483
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 8: and places that most countries wouldn't even think of going

484
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 8: trying to prevent civilian deaths. By the way, the number

485
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 8: of the civilian deaths, we really don't know how many

486
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 8: there were because the numbers guess who, they were reported

487
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 8: by the Gaza Health Ministry, which was Hamas. So Hamas says,

488
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 8: here's how many people were killed. Nobody can verify it.

489
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 8: But then the un takes those numbers, they run with them,

490
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 8: and of course CNN and the BBC and all the

491
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 8: news organizations just give those numbers as if they're the gospel.

492
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: We really don't know.

493
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 8: Certainly there were serious civilian casualties, many of them at

494
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 8: the hands of the IDF, but many of them at

495
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 8: the hands of Hamas itself.

496
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: And part of what you were saying earlier is you

497
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: seem to be saying, hey, listen, it is human nature

498
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: to care more about your own citizens and your own kids.

499
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: And so if you or I were a victim of

500
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: the home invasion, we would prioritize our own kids. Now,

501
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: we're not trying to kill the kids of the home invaders,

502
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: but quite honestly, if we're going after them and we

503
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: end up shooting some members of their family, that's on them.

504
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: That's not a nuts exactly.

505
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 8: And I don't know anybody who thinks rationally who would

506
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 8: disagree with that, But we're not dealing with people who

507
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 8: think rationally. I'll give you another example. If one looks

508
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 8: at the history of warfare in the modern world, there

509
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 8: were fewer casualties in Gaza among civilians than in most any,

510
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 8: if not all, wars over the past one hundred and

511
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 8: fifty years. That's a fact. Here's what I feel like

512
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 8: that people are missing. They're missing the fact that Israel

513
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 8: tried to prevent civilian deaths. There were periods of history

514
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 8: where nobody try to prevent a civilian Let me give

515
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 8: an example. All summer long next year, the Brits in

516
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 8: particular and the French, they were talking about how horrible

517
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 8: Israel was, how many people were dying, and it was

518
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 8: a little bit difficult for me to sit back and

519
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 8: be silent when I'm thinking. I can remember in World

520
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 8: War II, when the Brits they weren't dropping food on Dresden,

521
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 8: they were dropping some pretty heavy duty bombs and in

522
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 8: the space of just a few days they killed thirty

523
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 8: thousand civilians indiscriminately in order to bring about the end

524
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 8: of World War Two. The very Brits who were so

525
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 8: brutally critical of Israel. Never said and we made a

526
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 8: huge mistake. Boy, did we ever blow it by what

527
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 8: we did in Dresden. They packed themselves in the back

528
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 8: for helping accelerate the end of the war.

529
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 4: In nineteen forty five.

530
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: I remember a conversation with one of the in fact

531
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: US bombing commanders. This was in some of the footage

532
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: released fairly recently from World War Two, and he said,

533
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: I was given my instructions and I was told I

534
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: need to bomb this building. I forget if it was

535
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: Hamburg or and he goes, well, who's in that building?

536
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: And they told him something like twenty thousand women and children.

537
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: And he's like, I won't do it, and they go

538
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: it's an order, and he goes, I had to do it.

539
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: He goes, I didn't have a choice, And he said,

540
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: are we the good guys here were bombing civilians deliberately?

541
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: But you are right, this was in fact a conscious

542
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: decision because the German people continue to hang with Hitler

543
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: to the very end, and so it was not even

544
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: enough to break the German army.

545
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: You had to break the will of.

546
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: The German people, right, That's exactly what did happen.

547
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 8: The difference also is that there was never a time

548
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 8: when the Allies warned the people of Germany were about

549
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 8: to bomb you. That's one of the fundamental differences. Israel

550
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 8: never gets credit for some of the extraordinary measures that

551
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 8: it used to try and prevent civilian deaths. It doesn't

552
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 8: mean that the civilian deaths are any less heartbreaking, or

553
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 8: that they're any less horrible and atrocious. But we always

554
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 8: need to remember how did this war get started? Why

555
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 8: were they at war in the first place. Because on

556
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 8: October the seventh, Hamas operatives came across the border. They

557
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 8: didn't just murder twelve hundred people. They massacred them. They

558
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 8: mutilated them. They raped women in front of their families.

559
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 8: They beheaded babies, put babies in ovens, They lit people

560
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 8: a fire who were in wheelchairs. This was the equivalent

561
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 8: if it were happening to America. Twelve hundred in the

562
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 8: population of Israel would be the equivalent densh of forty

563
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 8: thousand Americans killed in the matter of a few hours.

564
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 8: What would America do if forty thousand of our citizens

565
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 8: weren't just murdered, but were massacred, mutilated, raped in front

566
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 8: of their families. Do you think Americans would say, now,

567
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 8: let's be real careful, how we prosecute this war. My gosh,

568
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 8: we had three thousand on nine to eleven, and the

569
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 8: reaction throughout the whole country, from the left to the right.

570
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 8: There was no division here. This was one of those

571
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 8: rare times when America was unified and it was whoever

572
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 8: did this to us, let's go get them, let's destroy them,

573
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 8: let's never let them forget it. And we changed everything

574
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 8: on our culture, from how we got on airplanes to

575
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 8: going into a public building. We changed everything in our

576
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 8: country because of three thousand people. Imagine what we would

577
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 8: have done had it been forty thousand. That was the

578
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 8: equivalent that Israel was dealing with.

579
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 4: What can you say about that? There's a claim out there?

580
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: And I realized that that this is the kind of

581
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: thing that we've heard before, because there are people who said,

582
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, Fdr knew that the Japanese were going to

583
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: bomb Pearl Harbor, and he kind of looked the other

584
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: way because he wanted he was looking for a way

585
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: from the US to get into the war. A similar

586
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: type of argument is made about nedda Yaou. He knew

587
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: about the attacks in fact, he let them happen. He

588
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: gave a stand down order. He wanted it to happen

589
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: so that Israel could go into full military mode. Is

590
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: there any truth whatever to this claim that somehow Nedanya

591
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: who himself either knew about or even orchestrated these attacks.

592
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 8: If he did, it's one of the most carefully kept

593
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 8: secrets in world history. Let me tell you why I

594
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 8: don't think it's true. There's almost not a week that

595
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 8: goes by that I don't have a meeting at the

596
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 8: Prime Minister's office. I'm sitting there across the table for

597
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 8: me as the Prime Minister, and eight or ten of

598
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 8: his very top cabinet people. When I hear people say

599
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 8: he wanted there to be a war, he wanted to

600
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 8: continue it, he didn't want it to stop. I'm looking

601
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 8: over there, and of those eight or ten people, half

602
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 8: of them have sons and daughters in combat in Gaza.

603
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 8: Not people sitting in an office in their version of

604
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 8: the Pentagon to carry out. Not people who are behind

605
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 8: doing desk work. I'm talking about people guns in their hands,

606
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 8: going house to house in Gaza, some of them not

607
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 8: coming home, including the son of the Israeli ambassadors of

608
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 8: the United States Ambassador Lighter So to even suggest that

609
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 8: the Prime Minister purposely kept a war going when the

610
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 8: sons and daughters of his key people were in that war,

611
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 8: I think it's unthinkable.

612
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 4: And if that were the case.

613
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 8: Those people would have stepped up and said, mister Prime Minister,

614
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 8: I can no longer serve in your administration because my

615
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 8: son and my daughter is unnecessarily in harm's way.

616
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think another factor that people don't think

617
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: about is that Israeli society is very divided like America,

618
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: and there is a vicious opposition to Netanyahu in this

619
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: country in Israel. And if anybody would be looking for

620
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: red meat to put Netanyahu on the shopping block or

621
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: move him out of there. I mean, if they could

622
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: expose Nedan Yahoo for something like this, they would have

623
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: done it, wouldn't they.

624
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 4: I think.

625
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 8: So you've made a very good point. Israel is as

626
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 8: polarized as America is. People in the United States, when

627
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 8: it comes to our president, they love him or they

628
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 8: hate him. There's very little middle ground. Same thing is

629
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 8: true in Israel. I often say about Israeli politics. If

630
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 8: you think American politics can be contentious, you ain't seen

631
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 8: nothing until you come and watch these folks.

632
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: They know how to get into political warfare.

633
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 8: But it's also, I quickly want to say, it's also

634
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 8: really the symbol and the very essence of a strong

635
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 8: democracy where people not only elect their government, but the

636
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 8: moment they elect them, they tear them to pieces and

637
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 8: they criticize them. It seems almost an anesthetical statement, but

638
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 8: the truth is that reveals that you have a healthy

639
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 8: free speech, a healthy democracy, that you can be as

640
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 8: critical as you want to be about the government you elected,

641
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 8: and nobody is going to come to your home tonight

642
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 8: and shoot you or take you away in the middle

643
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 8: of the night and put you in a prison, never

644
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 8: to be heard from again.

645
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: There's a debate, as you know, about APAK, the American

646
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: Israel Political Action Committee, and some of it focuses on

647
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: the fact that APAC is a foreign entity, and I've

648
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: heard it said, no, this is American Jews contributing to APAC.

649
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: But I think what isn't in doubt is that APAC

650
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: does have a pretty sort of active surveillance of America

651
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: and particularly of American representatives. I've heard that APAK assigns

652
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: like one guy to each congressman, you know. So in

653
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: other words, it's like each congressman's got his.

654
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 4: A back guy.

655
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: And this, of course has led to the idea that

656
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: somehow APAC is pulling the puppet strings on the US Congress.

657
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: What do you think about I mean, if it's true,

658
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: it's bad, right, sure, it would be hard.

659
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: Are you saying it's not true.

660
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 8: I wouldn't say it's true. I would again say it's

661
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 8: kind of like saying Israel is genocidal. To say that

662
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 8: Apak runs Congress, they're not really good at it, because

663
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 8: if they were really good at it, you'd have votes

664
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 8: that would be closer to five hundred to thirty five

665
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 8: than what you have, which is a bare majority in

666
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 8: the House and sometimes not even enough in the Senate

667
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 8: to carry a pro Israel bill. So there's some bipartisanship

668
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 8: when it comes to support for Israel, but some of

669
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 8: the harshest voices in our entire Congress are voices against

670
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 8: Israel and against any partnership with Israel. I would also

671
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 8: say that if we're going to criticize Apak, that's fair.

672
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 4: We can do that.

673
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 8: It is an American organization, it's not a foreign organization.

674
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 8: It's registered, it complies with the laws of disclosure. But

675
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 8: what about care Care is the Council for American Islamic Relations,

676
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 8: and they're pretty.

677
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 4: Pointed in what they're hoping for and pushing for. And

678
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 4: then you do have the.

679
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 8: Foreign money, billions of dollars that has come from Cutter

680
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 8: and from other Middle Eastern nations for the sole purpose

681
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 8: of influencing American public policy. What we know is frightening enough,

682
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 8: but what we don't know how much of that money

683
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 8: is poured into algorithms, in bots, so that social media

684
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 8: can be completely poisoned with sometimes not just anti Israel postings,

685
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 8: but anti American postings as well.

686
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: I was looking at an article that talked about the

687
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: contributions of Qatar just to Georgetown, a single university, and

688
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. So, in

689
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: other words, it's ironic because if you're pro Israel and

690
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: social media, you keep getting people who say, well, did

691
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: you collect your seven thousand dollars?

692
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 4: Yeah?

693
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: And I think what you're saying is that here, here's

694
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: an Islamic regime that is buying, you know, political science

695
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: departments and buying huge media organizations, and perhaps you know,

696
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: leveraging these algorithms. So it's perhaps the case that the

697
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: Katari money, you know, is much bigger than the Israeli

698
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: money by a factor.

699
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 4: Of I don't know how much.

700
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 8: Sometimes obviously suggest to the Israelis they would do well

701
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 8: to spend more money trying to get their version of

702
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 8: the story out. They're great at fighting a kinetic war,

703
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 8: they're not as good at fighting an information war. If

704
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 8: they were better at it, they wouldn't be getting hammered

705
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 8: every day and having most of the media completely against them.

706
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 8: It's a very one sided. People talk about it's particularly

707
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 8: in Israel that they fight a seven front war. I

708
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 8: always say, no, they fight an eight front war. It's

709
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 8: not just these direct enemies who shoot rockets, missiles and

710
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 8: UAVs at them. It's also the eighth front, which which

711
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 8: is the media, which is almost not altogether, but almost

712
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 8: universally anti Semitic, anti Israel and anti jew.

713
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: What would you say to those who say, all right,

714
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: Israel perhaps does us a lot of good, but why

715
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: do we give so much money to Israel three point

716
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: eight billion dollars on a general basis. That amount was

717
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: amped up during the in their response to October seventh.

718
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: Why doesn't the United States, which has a lot of

719
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: financial problems and amountain of debt to deal with, just

720
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: give not a single dollar to any other country. Let

721
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: them manage on their own.

722
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 8: That's a fair policy thought and question. And by the way,

723
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 8: it's interesting in that the person who is now leading

724
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 8: the effort to end even the three point eight billion

725
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 8: dollars is the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Etagna, who says,

726
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 8: we don't really need this money to Americans. I would

727
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 8: say it's not a huge amount in the great scheme

728
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 8: of things. Ask yourself, do we eat anything for that?

729
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 8: Here's the answer. Actually we do. Every bit of that

730
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 8: is turned around and spent on American hardware that is

731
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 8: used by the Israeli military, whether it's tanks, F thirty fives,

732
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 8: F sixteens, F fifteens. What people don't understand is the

733
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 8: technology that we share, the intelligence we share, the military

734
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 8: hardware that we share, would cost us multiples of the

735
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 8: three point eight billion if we had to purchase it

736
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 8: from Israel. But because of the partnership, we get it

737
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 8: as a result of having decided that we are going

738
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 8: to work with them. Let me give you a quick

739
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 8: example of how just in one platform, we get more

740
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 8: back than we give. The F thirty five is the

741
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 8: most sophisticated fighter jet in the history of mankind. There's

742
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 8: never been anything quite like it. It's pretty much a

743
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 8: flying computer. It's the first aircraft in history where the

744
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 8: pilot is the least common denominator of success. It is

745
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 8: the technology that's built into the plane. Israel buys the

746
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 8: F thirty five, they don't just take it off the

747
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 8: showroom floor and say just like we want it. They refigure,

748
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 8: They reconstitute that F thirty five for their unique needs,

749
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 8: and then they do something that we don't really have

750
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 8: the ability to do.

751
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 4: They use that.

752
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 8: Plane in combat. Now because of AI, every time that

753
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 8: plane takes off and does a mission and lands, it's

754
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 8: collecting data, and that data is being stored. It is

755
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 8: now making that airplane a smarter airplane when it lands

756
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 8: and when it took off.

757
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 4: If we had to have a war.

758
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 8: Just to get the information that the F thirty five

759
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 8: is collecting because they're outfighting a real war, we couldn't

760
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 8: afford it. It would take tens of billions of dollars

761
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 8: for the research, development, and for the application of it.

762
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 8: I never hear Americans say thank you Israel. You guys

763
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 8: are at war, so we don't have to be You're

764
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 8: the tip of the spear. But thanks for sharing all

765
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 8: the things that that airplane collected while it was flying

766
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 8: over in harm's way getting shot at by Iranian missiles.

767
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 8: Maybe we should say, Okay, we're not going to give

768
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 8: you any money.

769
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 4: I'll tell you there's other things.

770
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 8: Every round of ammunition that the IDF shoots is manufactured

771
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 8: just outside of Little Rock, Arkansas, a sig sour plant.

772
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 8: There are hundreds of people with good paying jobs because

773
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 8: Israel buys that ammo. There are hundreds of people in Camden, Arkansas.

774
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 8: This is just just in my home state where they

775
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 8: manufacture parts of the Irondome, David Sling and the aerow

776
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 8: missile defense system. Other people working in Arizona, Michigan, Missouri,

777
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 8: other states. Because of the defense partnerships that we have

778
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 8: with Israel. There are hundreds, no, there are thousands of

779
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 8: American jobs, good paying jobs because of this relationship. We

780
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 8: get end that if we wanted to, but a lot

781
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 8: of Americans would be quite unhappy if they lost those jobs.

782
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: Let's pivot a little bit to the question of theology,

783
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: and I bring it up because theology and politics on

784
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 1: this subject intersect quite closely. We started out, you were

785
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: talking about God and Abraham and Mount Moriah and the

786
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: God's promises to Abraham. Now, what if I were to say,

787
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: sort of, that's always interesting, but like, who cares? What

788
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: if I were to say to you, as an evangelical Christians,

789
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: if I believe in Christian you believe that through revelation

790
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: that God gave this land to Abraham, But that's not

791
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: the way we should talk about foreign policy. In fact,

792
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of dangerous to do it that way, because

793
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: because talking to God is not the way we settle

794
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: foreign policy issues in a democratic society. And so you're

795
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of entitled to believe it as a Christian, but

796
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: it's something that you should set to the side in

797
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: the way you think about American interests or America First,

798
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: What would your answer be to that, Well.

799
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 8: If it was pure mythology and these were fairy tales

800
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 8: and these had no historical context, I'd say you're one

801
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 8: hundred percent right.

802
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 4: I would say, yeah, we could just not ever talk

803
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 4: about that.

804
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 8: Quite frankly, I think you could take it off the

805
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 8: table completely and you would still be able to make

806
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 8: a strong geopolitical case for a relationship with Israel and

807
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 8: for Israel being here. I mean, the decision made in

808
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 8: nineteen seventeen for the Balfour Agreement, made in nineteen twenty

809
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 8: seven by the League of Nations, then made in nineteen

810
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 8: forty seven, implemented in nineteen forty eight for the creation

811
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 8: reconstitution of Israel. All were not done with any theological perspective.

812
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 8: That were done strictly for geopolitical reasons and justification because

813
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 8: everyone believed that the Jews had a right to what

814
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 8: was an indigenous homeland. That's fair, totally fair, But you

815
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 8: cannot separate that there is a historical context. Where does

816
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 8: that historical context come from. A lot of it does

817
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 8: come from the Bible. Now people can say, well, that's

818
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 8: a religious book. It is a religious book, But the

819
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 8: archaeology that is continually being uncovered here validates that biblical history.

820
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 8: So whether it is the city of David, this remarkable

821
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 8: place here in Jerusalem, that is a living testament. I mean,

822
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 8: the stones cry out that there is Jewish connection to

823
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 8: the land that goes back at least thirty eight hundred years.

824
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 4: One can say I don't believe it. You don't have

825
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 4: to believe it.

826
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 8: But I would say to the liberals, or to even

827
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 8: to the far right, wote conservatives. Follow the science. Follow

828
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 8: the science. Archaeology is a science, and if you follow it,

829
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 8: and if you look at the secession of history itself,

830
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 8: whether or not you believe the Bible, whether or not

831
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 8: you think God spoke to Abraham, whether you think he

832
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 8: spoke to Moses on Mount SINAI strip all of that away,

833
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 8: but you still have a historical context connected not just

834
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 8: the scripture, but also to archaeology and to recorded human

835
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 8: history that is outside of the Bible itself.

836
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: The Zionists, the Zionist movement which developed in Europe, the

837
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: movement to go back to find a homeland for the

838
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: Jews and then settling on this place Israel, Let's go

839
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: back to our original homeland, was largely a secular movement.

840
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: Some of the leading Zionists were socialists, they were left wingers.

841
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: A couple of them, Herzel included, were very clear, They're like,

842
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: we're not making any biblical claim. In fact, they were

843
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: sort of distancing themselves from that. Their argument was the

844
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: Jews need to be like normal people and have a

845
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: home line for the same reason that the Indians are

846
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: in India and so on.

847
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 4: And so my.

848
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: Question is, given that that is Zionism, why would you

849
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: call yourself a Christian Zionist?

850
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 8: Pretty simple, I'm a Christian, I follow Jesus. I'm a

851
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 8: Zionist because it simply means. It's not some deep thing.

852
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 8: It just simply means that you believe that Jews have

853
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 8: a right to live in what is their ancients indigenous

854
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 8: I could add biblical homeland, but if you take that away,

855
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 8: they still have connection to this land, and why shouldn't

856
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 8: they have a little bitty sliver of real estate. Islamic

857
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 8: countries have six hundred and forty four times the amount

858
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 8: of real estate that Israel has. Israel has a land

859
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 8: mass the size of New Jersey. Only thirty five percent

860
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 8: of it is inhabitable. The rest of it, sixty five percent,

861
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 8: is in the desert, in the negav not even usable.

862
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 4: So it's not.

863
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 8: Really that big of a stretch to say, Okay, the

864
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 8: Jews can have little bitty piece of land here, and

865
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 8: I don't think that that's a crazy idea. So Zionism

866
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 8: simply means, okay, let the Jews have a homeland where

867
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 8: they can have security, safety, and when they have another

868
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 8: experience like being chased out of their homes is what

869
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 8: happened during World War Two and the reign of the

870
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 8: Third Reich, they have a place to go.

871
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: The way you're putting it, it sounds like I'm a Christian,

872
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm a Zionist and that makes me a Christian Zionist.

873
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: Does a Christian need to be a Zionist or can

874
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: of Christian be an anti Zionist?

875
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 4: I guess one could.

876
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 8: But typically if a person said I'm a Christian, but

877
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 8: I don't want to be a Zionist, you'd have to

878
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 8: kind of separate yourself from the Scripture. Now, there are

879
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 8: some Christians, in fact, there are quite a few Christians

880
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 8: around the planet who say, yeah, you know, I'm all

881
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 8: into Jesus, but there's a lot of stuff in the

882
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 8: Bible that I think sort of phased out no longer

883
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 8: is valid. I'm an evangelical Christian, so I'm part of

884
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 8: what amounts to about eighty million people in America. The

885
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 8: fundamental thing that ties us together is that I would say,

886
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 8: we're people of the Book, so we believe the Scripture

887
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 8: is the infallible and errant word of God, and that

888
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 8: it is not just a culturally dated book, that it

889
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 8: is truth that is eternal, and that Jesus is the

890
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 8: same yesterday, today, and forever, and that's.

891
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 4: Who we follow.

892
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 8: We follow an eternal God, not one that once had

893
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 8: an idea but now he's changed his mind. He once

894
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 8: had a covenant with the Jews, but now he says, no,

895
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 8: not anymore. I'm done with those people. I'm going to

896
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 8: pick a new people. I'm going to pick the Christians

897
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 8: over here. If I believe in what I consider to

898
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 8: be the heresy of replacement theology, which says God once

899
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 8: had a covenant with the Jews, but he doesn't anymore.

900
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 8: He broke that covenant because he didn't like the way

901
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 8: they were doing it. What on earth makes me think

902
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 8: that a God who would break his covenant with his

903
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 8: first chosen people would somehow keep his covenant with me.

904
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 8: I find that an irrational view. So it's possible that

905
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 8: a person may not come to the same conclusions about

906
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 8: the role of Israel in the modern world. I would

907
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 8: say this, there are a lot of Americans who are

908
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 8: so secular they don't have any belief whatsoever. That God

909
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 8: had a role in the founding of America. I'm a

910
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 8: fairly I think, conversant person when it comes to American history.

911
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 8: I don't think you can explain America without understanding that

912
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 8: the hand of God was on that nation's creation, the

913
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 8: founding fathers, the founding documents. I see evidence of his

914
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 8: hand everywhere. Other people may not. I see the hand

915
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 8: of God in Israel. Other people may not. It doesn't

916
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 8: make me hate them, doesn't make me think they have

917
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 8: a brain virus. Are that somehow they're the most dangerous

918
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 8: people in the world. No, I just think they need

919
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 8: to do a little better study, a little bit more

920
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 8: digging into not just history, but archaeology and perhaps even

921
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 8: the genealogy of the way things have shaped out. Maybe

922
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 8: they would come to a different conclusion.

923
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: What would your critique be of I'm going to try

924
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: to frame or state replacement theology as I understand it.

925
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: The idea here would be this that you have the

926
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: Old Testament, but the Old Testament was fulfilled once Jesus came, died,

927
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: and was crucified and resurrected, so that Jesus, in a sense,

928
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: made everything that came before him obsolete. There's now a

929
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: new covenant or new pathway to heaven. Jesus is the

930
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: only way, and so the old way no longer applies.

931
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: It's not that it is historically invalid. It's still there,

932
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: it's still in the Bible, but now it's all seen

933
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: through the.

934
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: Light of Jesus.

935
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: And so Jesus has replaced the old covenant, to which

936
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: you say.

937
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 8: What I would say, Well, Jesus should have told us

938
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 8: that because he was still a Jew. Paul was a Jew.

939
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 8: The early Church were all Jewish. They continued to believe

940
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 8: in and practice their Jewishness, but they also believed that

941
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 8: Jesus was the Messiah. They didn't reject their history, they

942
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 8: didn't reject their ethnicity. What they rejected was that it

943
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 8: all ended at some point in history. And what they

944
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 8: did they embraced everything in the Old Testament, everything in

945
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 8: the Torah, everything in the Prophets, everything in the Psalms

946
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 8: as God's word to us. But they saw the fulfillment

947
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 8: of all of that in Jesus. If it is in

948
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 8: fact the fulfillment, then how would you suddenly say, let's

949
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 8: slice that off and float it out into the sea,

950
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 8: never to be seen again. Instead, wouldn't we want to

951
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 8: keep it because that is what validates the Christian faith.

952
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 8: And if we read the New Testament, as a lot

953
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 8: of Christians apparently do not, if you would read Romans eleven,

954
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 8: it very clearly this is the apostle Paul, the Jew

955
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 8: who says is God finished with the Jewish people? And

956
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 8: he uses a rather strong word in saying absolutely not.

957
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 8: He said, it's not that the Jews are grafted into us.

958
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 8: It's that we are grafted into the Jews. It's I

959
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 8: think it's more clear than a lot of people want

960
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 8: it to be.

961
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: Now, Jesus was in fact pretty hostile to the Jewish

962
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: establishment of his day.

963
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 4: Right.

964
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't just that he was against He was against

965
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: the Pharisees. He was against the Sadducees. It seemed like

966
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: he rejected Judaism as it was practiced in his time,

967
00:55:58,600 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: at least by the priests.

968
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 2: Does that count for something?

969
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 4: It does.

970
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 8: It counts for the fact that what Jesus preached was

971
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 8: the scripture. He opened the Scripture, and he would teach

972
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 8: and remember the disciples, and those who were listening to

973
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 8: him said, he is so different. He speaks as one

974
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 8: who has authority, not as the scribes. The scribes built

975
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 8: their theology on arguing with each other and making all

976
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 8: the human applications. When Jesus went into the temple and

977
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 8: turned over the tables, he did so because people were

978
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 8: being exploited in the name of a faith that he

979
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 8: thought should be represented by a house of prayer, by

980
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 8: connection to God. They were trying to connect people to

981
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 8: sacrifices and to specific rituals rather than to a relationship.

982
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 8: So Jesus said, it's not about the rituals, it's about

983
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 8: the relationship. When he and his disciples were hungry and

984
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 8: they found corn on the saba, and they ate it,

985
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 8: and they were horribly condemned for that. You know, he

986
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 8: made the point that it is not that Sabbath was

987
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 8: made for man, or that man was made for the Sabbath,

988
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 8: but Sabbath was made for the man.

989
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 4: Those are the ways that he taught.

990
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 8: So there's really not a conflict between what Jesus said,

991
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 8: what he taught, and who he was. Yes, he certainly

992
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 8: spoke against the spiritual or the religious leaders.

993
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 4: Of his day.

994
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 8: He called them snakes viper's brewed. Sometimes when people say

995
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 8: we need to be so kind and so gentle, I'm

996
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 8: thinking Jesus wasn't always that gentle. He said some pretty

997
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 8: rough things about the religious leaders. But what was it

998
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 8: he was going after them for because they were religious? No,

999
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 8: but because they had put their rituals of religion above

1000
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 8: their relationship to God, and they were excusing themselves for

1001
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 8: the sin that was in their heart. That's why he

1002
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 8: said things like you have heard it said that if

1003
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 8: a man commits adultery. But I say unto you that

1004
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 8: if you think in your heart, then you have committed

1005
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 8: the act. I mean, that was pretty revolutionary to say

1006
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 8: that it is the sin of our heart, not the

1007
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 8: sin of our hands, that we also have to worry about.

1008
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: If the Jews didn't kill Jesus, who did?

1009
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 4: We all did.

1010
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 8: It's a ridiculous thing to say the Jews killed Jesus.

1011
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 8: He could argue the Romans killed Jesus. I mean, technically

1012
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 8: the Romans carried out the sentence. It wasn't the Jews

1013
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 8: who did it. They didn't have the legal authority. That's

1014
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 8: why they didn't do it.

1015
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: But Pilot wouldn't have.

1016
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: Pilot didn't want to do it. He kind of reluctantly

1017
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: went along. It seems like Caiaphas I mean the High

1018
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: Priest pushed for it and Pilot acceded. So even though

1019
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: the Romans had to give it the go ahead, if

1020
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: it were up to them, they wouldn't have done it.

1021
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 8: That may be true, But in the simple answer to

1022
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 8: the question who killed Jesus, I would say I did.

1023
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 8: My sins killed him. If I'd never sinned, he wouldn't

1024
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 8: have to have died and shed his blood. If you

1025
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 8: had not sinned, he wouldn't have had to die. But

1026
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,439
Speaker 8: the Bible says we have all sinned and come short

1027
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 8: of the glory of God, all of us. There's no exception.

1028
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 8: So if that's the case, and that his death was

1029
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 8: the only means by which there would be a pure

1030
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 8: enough sacrifice to bring redemption, that, how do I blame

1031
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 8: just one group of people, be it the Jews, the

1032
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 8: Romans are for that matter, of the Greeks, or anybody else. No,

1033
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 8: it is every person who has ever committed the sin.

1034
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 8: We both individually and corporately. It is our fault. But

1035
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 8: I would also say Jesus made the decision. It wasn't

1036
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 8: that we took his life from him. The Bible speaks

1037
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 8: in terms very clearly that his life was not taken

1038
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:45,919
Speaker 8: from him.

1039
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 4: He gave his life.

1040
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 8: This was the ultimate revelation of God's love for us,

1041
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 8: not that we stripped from him his life and we

1042
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 8: took it against his will. Because right here in this

1043
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 8: city and the garden of Gathsemene, before he was crucified,

1044
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 8: he prayed, God, let this cup pass for me, but

1045
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 8: not my will, but thine be done. So whose will

1046
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 8: was it that there had to be a pure, perfect

1047
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 8: sacrifice to atone for sin. It was God's plan.

1048
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: And yet in the Old Testament there are multiple times

1049
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: where God has a plan and that he's had plans,

1050
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: for example, to punish the Jews, and it says that

1051
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: God used the Assyrians, he used the Babylonians. I think

1052
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: what he says that the Assyrians on my rod and

1053
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 1: my staff in punishing Israel. But at the same time

1054
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: God judges the Assyrians and the Babylonians really harshly. And

1055
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: those empires are themselves obliterated over time and have left

1056
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 1: very little except archaeological remnants. So there are those who

1057
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: would apply this kind of reasoning and say, all right, true,

1058
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: there was a spiritual purpose for Jesus to come. That

1059
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: purpose was fulfilled, and perhaps God was using the Jews

1060
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: to carry out his plan. But still they did it

1061
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: and they deserve to be punished for it. And the

1062
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: hostility to the Jews is warranted because of what they did,

1063
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: and God is judging them harshly because they were the

1064
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 1: earthly instruments for carrying out this death sentence on Jesus.

1065
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 4: Is that wrong to be blunt? Yes? And I'll tell

1066
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 4: you why, because.

1067
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 8: God did, in fact allow things to happen to Jewish

1068
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 8: people as judgment you hear over and over. I think

1069
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 8: back when He would use the prophets to speak to them,

1070
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 8: Jeremiah for example, and he told Jeremiah, I want you

1071
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 8: to go and this is my message to them, but

1072
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 8: don't get excited about it, because they're going to completely

1073
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 8: reject you. He said, it'd be better if you never

1074
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 8: got married. It'd be better if you never said these things.

1075
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 8: But you're going to go out and say these things.

1076
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 8: Are you going to tell the Jews what is about

1077
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 8: to happen to them?

1078
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 4: Now?

1079
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,919
Speaker 8: Was that because God hated the Jews? No, No more

1080
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 8: than it would be that. The reason I disciplined my

1081
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 8: children when they were small is because I hated them.

1082
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 8: I didn't hate my children. I never disciplined them because

1083
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 8: I said, I hate you kids. You've ruined my life.

1084
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 4: I wish I never had you.

1085
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 8: No, I wanted to steer them in a direction in

1086
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 8: which they would live a life that not only would

1087
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 8: reflect the values that I wanted to instill in them

1088
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 8: and the values that God has laid down for us,

1089
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 8: but I did not want them to go off into

1090
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 8: a behavior that would ultimately be destructive. So if I

1091
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 8: ran out and grabbed my child from running into the

1092
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 8: street and being hit by a car, was that an

1093
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 8: act of hate? I would suggest to you that, even

1094
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 8: though I may have done it rather abruptly, not necessarily,

1095
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 8: in the kindest of words, And when I jerked that

1096
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 8: child back onto the curb from the street.

1097
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 4: But I didn't do it out of hate.

1098
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 8: I did it out of love, out of correction, and

1099
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,959
Speaker 8: in order to save and to redeem. Why did God

1100
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 8: allow the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Romans?

1101
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 4: Was it judgment? Of course it was?

1102
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 8: But what is the one thing that always continues to

1103
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 8: surface through history? The Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Romans, the Greeks,

1104
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 8: They're all in the dustbin of history. You know who's

1105
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 8: still here the Jews. Here's the interesting thing. If God

1106
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 8: hated the Jews as much as some people wish they did,

1107
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 8: we wouldn't have any Jews here. They'd all be gone.

1108
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 8: And by the way, there's been a lot of human

1109
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 8: attempts to get rid of them all. So what do

1110
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 8: we surmise from this? Just again, take the Bible out

1111
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 8: of it, This historical record is that somehow the Jews

1112
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 8: continue to survive no matter how many people try to

1113
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 8: annihilate them, and they continue to do even to the day,

1114
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 8: from the river to the sea. That is a call

1115
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 8: for the annihilation of the Jews. If God were finished

1116
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 8: with them, he could have certainly used the Assyrians, the Babylonians,

1117
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 8: the Romans, or he could have.

1118
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 4: Used the Nazis.

1119
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 8: But even the Nazis, with their very targeted and intent

1120
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 8: to kill every last Yew, and to do it systematically,

1121
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 8: they still failed.

1122
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: You had lively exchange with these patriarchs, the so called

1123
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: patriarchs of some of the churches here in Israel, where

1124
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: somewhat to my surprise, they made the claim that Christian

1125
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: Zionism is a heresy.

1126
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 4: Could you.

1127
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: Say why they would say such a thing, and what

1128
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: was your take?

1129
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 8: On all that, you know, I want to be very

1130
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 8: clear that these are my brothers. I love them, I

1131
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 8: know most of all of them personally. I'm not at

1132
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 8: odds with them. I walk in fellowship with them to

1133
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 8: the degree that I can have a different point of

1134
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 8: view when it comes to Christian Zionism, and it's not

1135
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 8: to me a heresy. I would say it's more of

1136
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 8: a heresy to say that there's no really place for

1137
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 8: the modern Jew in the world today.

1138
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: So are they saying that you think that they're going

1139
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: that far?

1140
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 8: No, I don't necessarily think so. I mean, their statement

1141
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 8: was a little ambiguous, quite frankly, and it was confusing,

1142
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 8: and by the way, none of them put their name

1143
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 8: on it.

1144
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 4: Which was also surprising.

1145
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 8: The part of it that maybe got my attention more

1146
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 8: than a theological perspective was when the statement started by saying,

1147
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 8: we and we alone are the voice of Christians in

1148
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 8: the Holy Land. And I'm thinking, well, the claim of

1149
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 8: exclusivity might be a little troubling to those of us

1150
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 8: who don't necessarily follow the same church tradition Evangelicals for example,

1151
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 8: or a part of a free church tradition which believes

1152
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 8: in what we would call the priesthood of the believer,

1153
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 8: that I don't have to go through a human medium

1154
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 8: in order to pray or to be forgiven. It's a

1155
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 8: theologic difference, and I may get to heaven and find

1156
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 8: out I was all wrong. You know, I reserve the

1157
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 8: right to be wrong. But that is a position theologically

1158
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 8: that free church people have, and the autonomy of not

1159
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 8: only the individual believer, but the autonomy of the church,

1160
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 8: so that in the evangelical world, we don't take our

1161
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 8: orders from a ecclesiastical headquarters. So that makes us different.

1162
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 8: Does it make us right? Not necessarily, it just makes

1163
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 8: us different.

1164
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson began with what seemed to be a pivot

1165
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: on Israel. Israel is a problem, Nan Yahoo is a problem.

1166
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: At one point, I think he said that in Ya

1167
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: Who's evil. But he's migrated from that to something quite different,

1168
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: which is a defense of Maduro socialism in Venezuela. He

1169
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: says Maduro is actually pretty conservative, a defense of Sharia

1170
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: law as being one way to get law and order

1171
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: and a kind of safe society, a defense of hamast

1172
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: Or degree. It's not a Tucker says, it's not a

1173
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: terrorist group. It's a political organization. Maybe akin to the

1174
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: Labor Party. You and I have both known Tucker over

1175
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: many years. What is your diagnosis of what is going

1176
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: on here? Because I think it's taken many people by surprise.

1177
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: I know with rank and file Republicans who are used

1178
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: to Tucker from his days at Fox News, they just

1179
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,919
Speaker 1: say things like, we're confused, because I think it's hard

1180
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: for them to believe that Tucker has somehow metamorphosed into

1181
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: something new. What do you think is going on?

1182
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 8: It's hard to know, And I'm glad you brought up

1183
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 8: the fact that both of us have known him for

1184
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 8: many years. I go back to nineteen ninety one when

1185
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 8: he first worked for the Arkansas Democrat Gazette newspaper in

1186
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 8: Little Rock. That was before he went on to see an,

1187
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 8: NMSNBC and all the television iterations that led to Fox News.

1188
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 8: I worked with him every week in New York for

1189
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 8: six and a half years when I was a Fox

1190
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 8: News host. I never knew Tucker this way. He's a

1191
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 8: very smart guy. I could be a little arrogant, but

1192
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 8: intellectually honest and asked hard questions and was thoughtful. What

1193
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 8: I see now is somebody I don't recognize. I don't

1194
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:23,560
Speaker 8: know what happened to him. I mean, what to me

1195
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 8: is odd about it.

1196
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: There are people who changed their mind, right, I mean,

1197
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: Whittaker Chambers used to be a communist and then he

1198
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: became a capitalist. But of course he wrote a six

1199
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: hundred page book called Witness, in which he gives a

1200
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: full account of how he went from here to there.

1201
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: There are atheists who become Christians, there are Christians who

1202
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: lose their faith. And so what I'm getting at is

1203
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: people are quite entitled to make a U turn, but

1204
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: usually it comes with some explanation for how you got

1205
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: from here to there, what made you change your mind?

1206
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,719
Speaker 1: As far as I know, we have gotten no such

1207
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: thing from not just Tucker, but Candice as well, and

1208
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: so we just at this point, would you say that

1209
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: we should just give up the quest to figure out

1210
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 1: their motives and merely look at the effects of what

1211
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: they're doing. And are the effects of what they're doing

1212
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: bad for Trump? Bad for Maga? How would you read

1213
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: the consequences of this whole turn?

1214
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 8: You made one of the most astute statements just then

1215
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 8: that I have heard in this whole mail you of

1216
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 8: talking about Tucker Carlson. I want to commend you for it,

1217
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 8: because you said that if a person makes this significant

1218
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 8: philosophical ideological change radical I mean the Apostle Paul did,

1219
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 8: but then he spent the rest of his life writing

1220
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 8: about it. Whittiger Chambers another great example. C. S. Lewis

1221
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,600
Speaker 8: phenomenal Christian mind, but came from a point of atheism.

1222
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 8: For Tucker to have made this dramatic and I mean

1223
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 8: one hundred and eighty degree shift of opinion, I think

1224
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 8: he owes some explanation. It's not the what that is

1225
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 8: so troubling, it's the why. We know the what, but

1226
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 8: we don't know. It's the why.

1227
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: Ambassador Huckabee, thank you very much.

1228
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 4: Densh always a pleasure to get a visit with you.

1229
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1230
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: Step into the world of the Dragon's Prophecy on a

1231
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: tour of the ancient land of Israel. I'm Denesh Jsuza,

1232
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: and I'm inviting you to join me and Jonathan Kahn,

1233
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: where the Dragon's Prophecy Tour will walk the ancient streets

1234
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: of Jerusalem and visit iconic landmarks like the Western Wall,

1235
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 1: the Sea of Galilee, and the Mount of Olives, exploring

1236
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: the real world settings behind the mysteries and what they

1237
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: reveal about the days we're living in book now at

1238
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 1: inspiration travel dot com, slash dragon, or call eight four

1239
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: four seven one five two four two five. To understand

1240
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 1: the central divide in American politics, it helps to think

1241
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 1: about the distinction between the ant and the termite. Now,

1242
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: the ant is very industrious. I've been reading the Harvard

1243
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 1: scholar EO. Wilson, an authority on ants, and he points

1244
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: out that the ant can be an individualist, but at

1245
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: the same time, ants like to work together. They will

1246
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: cooperate voluntarily to haul food. Wilson notes that you want

1247
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: to be careful in dealing with the ant. The ant

1248
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: is leave me alone type of guy. Ants don't like

1249
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: you to mess with them. Now. The termite, by contrast,

1250
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: is not so much of a builder. The termite is

1251
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:42,520
Speaker 1: really a destroyer. I've been reading an authority on termites,

1252
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: Saul Olynski in his book Rules for Radicals, and he

1253
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: points out that termites need to be no less industrious

1254
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: than ants in accomplishing termite objectives. Now, it's easy to

1255
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: be dismissive of the termite and consider the termite and

1256
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: a purely negative light, but try to look at the

1257
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: world from the point of view of the termite. If

1258
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:11,480
Speaker 1: termites could talk, they would call what they do progress