1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: We still don't really know. Is Nancy Guthrie's abduction Does 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: that have anything to do with the cartels. It's not 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: that far from the border, they questioned some guy twelve 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: miles from the border. In fact, could there be a 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: cartel connection? And with that in mind, how about the 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: cartel stuff that just happened on Sunday taking out some 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: big cartel leader. And now the entirety of Mexico appears 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: to be either fighting for territory or mad at the 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: United States. Let's talk about Nancy Guthrie. You and I 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: have talked about hostage taking. Mexican cartels do this for profit. 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: They hold people for ransom for profit. They will kidnap 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: high importance people will kidnap people who are there vacationing, 13 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: and generally speaking, they get paid to release the people. 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: If not, those people are in dire straits victory in 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: your heart of hearts, do you think there's any connection 16 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: between the Mexican cartels and Nancy Guthrie? Is that even possible? 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: I mean, she didn't live that far from the border, 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: and some of the people of interests that they were 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: talking to are very close. 20 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: To the border. 21 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: You know, you can never say never. 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: I think definitely there's a because of the proximity and 23 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: the location. You know, to some Arizona it's so close 24 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: to the border that there's something that obviously you have 25 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: to look at, you have to pay attention. Uh, none 26 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: of this makes sense to me, Joe, as my special 27 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 2: agent had is put on and my criminal investigator courses 28 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: and everything that I look at and crime scene prevention 29 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: and everything. It doesn't make any sense because when it 30 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: is a kidnapping for ransom, there is a reaction, there 31 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: is a phone call, there is any negotiation, especially even 32 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 2: to the ones that they call them. There's a term 33 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 2: called kidnap express where they actually take the victim and 34 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 2: you know, driver around to separate atm machines to withdraw 35 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: as much money as they can. That's another But that 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: didn't happen here, or they did. Why why would they? 37 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't make any sense to get rid 38 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: of the get rid of the person or the body 39 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: of the the entity of what they're trying to get 40 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: their their their agenda, their cross. So one of the 41 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: things that I ask is one of them, as a 42 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: criminal investigator, what is the motive? That's one of the 43 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: first questions what is the motive of the person committing 44 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: the crime. If you're going to break into a house 45 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: and commit a burglary, there is a motive. And there's 46 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: a reason why a burglary of habitation is considered a 47 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: crime of violence because a lot of times that motive 48 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: of that burglar when they break into a house is 49 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: to go steal something of value. But he could easily 50 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: turn into a violent encounter because if a person isn't 51 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: at home, it could turn into a rape, it could 52 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: turn into a stabbing, a shooting, whatever else and escalate 53 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: very very quickly. Is that what happened here? That's what's 54 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: very puzzling about it. 55 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: Well, like you said, she's the commodity, and if you 56 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: want to ransom, you're going to have to show that 57 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: the commodity, the commodity, is alive and well and that 58 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: the money would be well spent together her back It 59 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: doesn't appear to be happening from the videos that we've seen. 60 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: We see the one video of the guy at the door, 61 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: at the front door. But now just two days ago 62 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: they released a picture I still picture of the guy 63 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: from the same door. Doesn't have a backpack on. It's 64 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: from a different day, But it clearly appears to be 65 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: the same guy with the same sort of get up on. 66 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: Does that tell you anything as an investigator? The guy 67 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: went there before, he actually went to do it that 68 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: night and then goes back and then actually does the 69 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: deed and leaves, whether clearly he left with her because 70 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: she's not there, What does that tell you? 71 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: It's the old recon, it's the old you know, drive by, 72 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: it's the setup. It's the get to know the location, 73 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: whether it's a business, whether it's a residence, get to 74 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: know the entry points, the exit points, the vulnerabilities of 75 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: that building. And I think that's that's what this this 76 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: person was doing, is they're there, they're actually doing a 77 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: recon and checking on and what what what they're actually 78 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: going to be doing the following day or whatever it 79 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: is that they're actually going to do the activity. That's 80 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: what seems to have been happening here. So there's the 81 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: premeditation here, there's the planning. Uh, there's a lot of 82 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: a lot of things that that I think there's a 83 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: lot of footage out there and a lot of other 84 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: possible angles that I think hopefully comes to light so 85 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: they could get their family member back well. 86 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, I mean, you just said this, 87 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: but I'll say I'll say it Agather's reiterated a different way. 88 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 1: Clearly she was targeted. This wasn't some random guy said, hey, 89 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: this is a neat neighborhoo, let me go in and 90 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: see if I can get into this door and go 91 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: get get a lady. This is somebody. He had to 92 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: have known that she lived there, had to have known 93 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: that she was the target. Does that tell you that 94 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: we can now make the assumption that they knew it 95 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: was Savannah Guthrie's mother, or maybe we don't even know that. 96 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: Maybe he just saw her coming home a few nights 97 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: and said that this would be an easy target for me. 98 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: What do you glean from that? 99 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: I think it's very easy to find out anybody that's 100 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: trying to do that type of activity, to find out 101 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: who actually lives in a residence as much like me, 102 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: as much as protection as I get, I think people 103 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: would I eventually find out. It's not that hard, especially 104 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: with the technology around, and it wouldn't be hard to 105 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: find out that, you know, the next is of the 106 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: of this lady with Savannah Guthrie and the next of 107 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: can and family ties here is that the reason why 108 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: is that the motive is it? Money? Is it? What 109 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: is it that they were trying to So it all 110 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,119 Speaker 2: goes back to the original motive that was intentioned, because 111 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: if that motive was broken into something else, then you 112 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: got to find the angle of where it was broken 113 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: to follow that lead. 114 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: What a car tellerver you? Crypto? Is that something the 115 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: cartels do? Now? 116 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 117 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 2: Yes? 118 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: Really so so this still and that that doesn't exclude 119 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: them if they're saying send. 120 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: Us crypto, no, this this is I'm glad you bring 121 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: that up because this is the level of sophistication that 122 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: the cartel's are work in. And yes, crypto is a 123 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: lot of any kind of business that you can think 124 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: you could channel money through there or cipher money through 125 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: a certain business or avenue. They're going to do it. 126 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: It is Victor Ovula, Assistant Director O n DCP looking 127 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: at this case specifically. There's so much interest in this case. 128 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: And and Savannah released that other video yesterday and you 129 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: can't help it out, but your heart hurts to watch her, 130 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, going through this, what's likely to happen? I mean, 131 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: in the investigations that you've done over the years, and 132 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: you've done some high level international investigations. What's the likely 133 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: outcome here? This one seems to be different than any 134 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: other case. I can remember. 135 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: One thing I can I keep hearing a lot is 136 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: that this is not a cold case, and certainly not yet. 137 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: What is that? What does that tell you? If they 138 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: say that, they announce it's not told they have stuff 139 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: that we don't know about. 140 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: Well, they don't want to categorize that, because once it's 141 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: a cold case, it goes into a different category, different investigators, 142 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: different The level of priority doesn't mean that it's going 143 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: to go away, but the level of priority does change. 144 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 2: And I don't think they're quite there to make that determination. 145 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: And hopefully they're saying it because they have some other 146 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: leads to go by, and a lot of it has 147 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: to do with the information that was released to the 148 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: public what wasn't released, And I think they're you know, 149 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: they have to kind of regroup at this point and say, 150 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: what other resources do we have? Are we going to 151 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: continue to use FBI resources, other state and local resources, 152 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: and other people that kind of come in with fresh eyes, 153 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: And that's never a bad thing. This doesn't mean that 154 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: they're doing a bad thing. It's just sometimes that when 155 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: you're staring it from within, it's always good to get 156 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: a fresh pair of eyes from the outside and look 157 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: at the obvious that sometimes you missed, and so sometimes 158 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 2: that helps a lot and say, hey, did you actually 159 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: look at this vehicle? Did you look at this? And 160 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: question other things, not check on them, but just kind 161 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: of giving a different pair of eyes in perspective. 162 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: A few things that happened in this investigation victory that 163 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: really really jump out at me. And again, I'm not 164 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: an investigator, That's why I have friends like you, but 165 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: in seeing that they released the crime scene like a 166 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: day or two later, didn't make any sense. Seeing that 167 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: they let the pool guy show up. We're all watching 168 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: the pool back clean the pool while there's an active 169 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: investigation happening at that house. A lot of people used 170 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: the bathroom inside the house. When you see it treated 171 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: like that, would you assume that it's just amateuristic and 172 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: they're not sure, they're not used to a case like this, 173 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: or do you think that was just really incompetence They 174 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: should have known better. 175 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: It's definitely hard to see that I had to answer 176 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: that question because I wasn't there, but I could tell 177 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: you based on my training of crime scene prevention and 178 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: taking care of that. It was definitely kind of curious 179 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: to see the reporter standing right by the blood that 180 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: was spilled in the front of the porch here of 181 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: the house, and like. 182 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: They that's that's how that's how we saw it. They 183 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: went up with a camera and literally are standing there. 184 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I find out as well, And so 185 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: that was kind of kind of weird, and say, why 186 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: isn't Why isn't the first thing you rope off the 187 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: entire property to try to preserve as much of the 188 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: evidence or potential evidence. I just know that anything could 189 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: be evidence. You have no idea it could be. It 190 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: could be a piece of paper, It could be anything 191 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: in that in that household or in the surrounding property. 192 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: That could potentially be a huge league for this case. 193 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: And I hope that it's still there and they could 194 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: still retrieve it. 195 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: It is Victor ovul Victor, one last question. I always 196 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: appreciate the time and the access. Thanks for making time today. 197 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: And by the way, you and I agree, last night's 198 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: speech was amazing. When he talked about the fifty six 199 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: percent reduction in fetanol, I thought about you and Sarah immediately, 200 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: I know the hard the work that you're doing. Let's 201 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: finish this way. We see a lot of municipalities now 202 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: not wanting to work with federal agencies, not wanting to 203 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: work with HS. So how where you used to work, 204 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: not wanting to work with ICE or CVP not working 205 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: wanting to work with with DHS at all. Do you 206 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: think there's anything that we can compare and contrast with 207 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: this guy into some in Pieva County, this guy in 208 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: Nanos And the reason I say that is early on 209 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: it was it was put out there by people who 210 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: work in the department. They don't like him. By the way, 211 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: he had a ninety eight percent non approval rating by 212 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: his own deputies. They were starting to leak out that 213 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: he was in contact in the FBI and that the 214 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: FBI had to sort of insert themselves. Could this be 215 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: a case and again I want to just beat this 216 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: guy up and don't know the guy. I'm just going 217 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: on what we know. Could this be a case of 218 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: a local municipality saying we're not going to work with 219 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: the feds, and if so, why do they do that? 220 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: It definitely can be I mean, I've been through all 221 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: of them joining. 222 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: My career, those that have great relationships with the state 223 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: and locals, and some that just would not want to 224 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: talk to us. And it really is a shame when 225 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: that when the latter happens, because we need them. I 226 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: always wanted to have a local or uniform officer every 227 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: time I did any kind of enforcement activity, even something 228 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: as simple as a traffic stop or and of course 229 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: moving in you know, into a search warrant or a restaurant. 230 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: We always had the locals with us. And now in 231 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: my new position, I happen to be the State and 232 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: Local and Tribal corp. Because that's how important. This is. 233 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: The gap that exists, it does exist, it's not as 234 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: bad anymore between the FEDS and the state and locals 235 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: has to be diminished. The information has to flow easily 236 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: both ways, and I want to see that happen. I 237 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: could tell you that within the FEDS it's getting a 238 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: lot better, way better than you know twenty years ago, 239 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: and the information sharing is fluid. But we have to 240 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: do that with the stained locals because we need each other. 241 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: It's not that the FEDS are better than the state. 242 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: It's none of that. It's about solving crimes like these. 243 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean work together. There's really no reason not 244 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: to work together. And I thought that we got rid 245 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: of those barriers that you're talking about. After nine to 246 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: eleven we found out that the CIA and FBI and NSA, 247 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: we're not working together, so they didn't realize that planes 248 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: can be used as weapons into buildings. And then the 249 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: promise was under George W. Bush and now till today, 250 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: is that we're all just going to work together to 251 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: try to solve crime. We're all going to work together 252 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: to keep people safer. And it seems like they're ramping 253 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: up the other side seems to be ramping up this 254 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: let's not work with them because somehow they're bad and 255 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: we're good. How do we get rid of that completely? 256 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: Is there a way to do that? Uh? 257 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, there is. 258 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: I can tell you that we're actively do that almost 259 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: every single day here with our Heid Task Forces, our 260 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 2: Home Homeland Security Task Forces, our hstfs that were recently 261 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: recently created by the White House. We are actively working 262 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 2: without every single day to be able to push that 263 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: information both ways, and it is a challenge at times, 264 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: but I could tell you and firsthand that the federal 265 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: government has become way you mentioned nine After nine eleven, 266 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: it's way different. I remember that when there was nothing 267 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: being shared, and right now it's an incredible cooperation amongst 268 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: our brothers and sisters and all these law enforcement entities. 269 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: We realize we're on the same team. We want the 270 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: same mission, we want the same result, and eventually is 271 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: to save lives and make a public safety a priority. 272 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with this guy, Elle Menchho, I think 273 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: that's what his name was. I wasn't familiar with him, 274 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: but I'm guessing that you were. How big a deal 275 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: was this guy? 276 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: Huge? 277 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: Joe, It's a huge deal. 278 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 279 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I did know about this guy, and a lot 280 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: of us in this world knew about ELEMENTO for a 281 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: long time. The head of the Cartelhali School New Generation 282 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: or CJ ANDG for short, which are the number one 283 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 2: producers and manufacturers and distributors of meth andphetamine and fentannel 284 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: as well, but mostly meth. And they're the ones involved 285 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: in the avocado trade, the lime trade, and many other things, 286 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: the stolen diesel and fuel from Texas from Mexico. So 287 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: these are terrorist organizations no longer just drug cartels. They're 288 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: foreign terrorist organizations, and they were on the list that 289 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: President Trump designated as such. And I'm telling you there 290 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 2: was some good news on Sunday when he finally went down, 291 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: something that we didn't think that was going to happen. 292 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 2: But this is where when the cooperation between Mexico and 293 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: the United States actually starts coming together. I worked in Mexico, 294 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: as you know, and we have always been there. We 295 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: have cooperated with money, with funds, with training, with intelligence, 296 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 2: you name it. And and this is the actual fruits 297 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 2: of that support that we've been given for such a 298 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: long time that this is the type of action that 299 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 2: we actually are looking for from Mexico. And yes, maybe 300 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: it's because of the pressure of the United States on 301 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 2: Mexico and other countries. We saw what happened in Venezuela, 302 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: and I think we're going to continue to see more 303 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 2: of this. 304 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you about this guy specifically, but Victor, 305 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: the reputation is he was especially brutal, like pulling out 306 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: and pulling out eyes and ripping people limb from limb. 307 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: I mean, is this all folklore? Who is this guy really? 308 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 2: Unbelievably brutal, unbelievable brutal, probably one of the most violent 309 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: cartels out there. This all happened back with the Zettas. 310 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: They're the ones that up the game on the violence 311 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: of you know, decapitating people, taking people's hearts out of 312 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: their chests while they're still alive, and horrific things like that. 313 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: I'm talking about barbaric type of medieval type of actions 314 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 2: on human beings and the human trafficking world and the 315 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: smuggling all under Biden that the cartels started taking over 316 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: over all. That why because of the money that it produced. 317 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: These guys. Their ideology might not be a religious ideology, 318 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: but it's a power and money ideology that keeps them 319 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: in force and also keeps them in power in Mexico. 320 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: Which what happens, Joe. They start controlling the government, they 321 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: start controlling the politics, they start controlling the media, and 322 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: they actually have a stronghold on the entire country. President 323 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: Trump knows this, we all know this, and so to 324 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: see these types of actions that Mexico has taken. By 325 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: the way, it's not just a Menchel. We're talking about 326 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: Mayo Sambaba, We're talking about El Chappo, We're talking about 327 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: almost one hundred prisoners and cartel members that the US 328 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: has finally received from next tradition from Mexico. So we 329 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: have to give credit with credits due, and Mexico is 330 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: finally stepping up. 331 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: You and I have talked about this a lot. It's 332 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: Victor Ovular, Assistant Director O M DCP, a great friend 333 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: of ours. Go to Victor Ovula speaks dot com is 334 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: his website. You and I have talked about this a lot. 335 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: We weren't really sure about Scheinbaum. We weren't really sure 336 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: about what the next president would do, how she would 337 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: do it. I know that there's a balancing act when 338 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: you're the leader of Mexico because the cartells have a 339 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: lot of strength, not only strength through their drug dealing 340 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: and human trafficking and sex trafficking, but political strength. They 341 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: actually donate a lot of money to get people in 342 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: office that will work with them. So going in we 343 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: were a little apprehensive. But has she stepped up as 344 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: much as you'd like to see? 345 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: Not quite there for my liking. But I'm telling you, 346 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: this is a great direction that she's going in. And 347 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: you know, I've been talking about this a lot. She's 348 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: been in a difficult position. We're talking about Clyde Steinbaum, 349 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: She's she's in the middle of between Donald Trump, the cartels, 350 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: and her own political party because her own political party 351 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: is a socialist communist party and that's their ideology. So 352 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: think about that when we are having this discussion. They 353 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: don't think like you and I do as capitalists here 354 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: in the US and the free world, and that does 355 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: matter and that we have to take that into consideration. 356 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: So when you see actions like this, it speaks a 357 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: lot louder than the words that she actually says, because 358 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: if you pay attention to the press conferences that she 359 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 2: holds every morning, it's completely the opposite. You would think 360 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: that Mexico would never do that. She's against military action, 361 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: she's against going violently against the cartels. But you know, 362 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: I like to concentrate more on the actual actions that 363 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: she's doing rather than the words. 364 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: Victor Avula always appreciate the time and the access. So 365 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: what's going on in Mexico right now? Because originally I 366 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: thought it was they're going to go after Americans because 367 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: American intelligence helped to make this happen, so it sounds 368 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: like they might have been doing that, But then they 369 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: went after an airport. Then they're lighting cars on fire. 370 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: It looks like there might be a territory or a 371 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: turf battle going on. And then you hear about twenty 372 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: five Mexican National Guards members being killed. Are they just 373 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: shooting and killing everybody right now because there's mayhem? Or 374 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: is there a plan although it's sinister, Is there some 375 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: sort of a plan to get reorganized now that they 376 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: lost their leader. 377 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're definitely going to try to reorganize. This is 378 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: where we have to take advantage on both sides of 379 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: the border and not allow them to reorganize. This is 380 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: where the dismantling and this disruption of these organizations takes place. 381 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: What you saw with the fires and the destruction of 382 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: the cities and the airport is the cartel showing the 383 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 2: public this is the power that we have over this, 384 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: over this these territories. And it wasn't just Walajada Halischool. 385 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: It was like several states around the country and all 386 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: the way to tj on the other side of the 387 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 2: border of San Diego. So it just goes to show 388 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: the presence that they have in that country and the 389 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: power they have. And so right now, because they are scrambling, 390 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: we have to take advantage and not let them to reorganize. Now, 391 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: I'll give you the example of the Zetta's. What happened 392 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 2: with us after our shooting is they were they were disrupted, 393 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: and they eventually were dismantled. Now there was a faction 394 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: of them that that that created a new cartel called CDN, 395 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: but the Zettas were gone. This I'm hoping that this 396 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 2: happens with CEJNG that then leads us to Sinalo and 397 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 2: the others. 398 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: The videos that we're seeing out of Mexico Victor, are 399 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: we seeing intra sort of gang battles. Are we seeing 400 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: inter cartel battles? Are we seeing the battle inside of 401 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: this one cartel to see who the leader is going 402 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: to be? Because again it looks like there were civilians 403 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: that are involved as well, and they're certainly going after 404 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: the national Guard, They're going after the federalities, whoever they 405 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 1: can go after that they think did this. But what 406 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: are we seeing when we see all these video of 407 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: plumes of smoke coming out of different cities and cars 408 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: that are on fire and people taking over gas stations, 409 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: what are we seeing? What is going on there? 410 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 3: This is the cartel protesting. 411 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: This is the way these guys protest, which is killing 412 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: and hurting anyone that's in their way. But I actually 413 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: don't believe that there's going to be an infight as 414 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 2: to who's going to take over. It's because you have 415 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 2: to think of these organizations. They're highly sophisticated, just like 416 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: a CEO and a board of a corporation. If a 417 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: CEO would be taken out, more than likely a new 418 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: one would be voted in by the same organization. And 419 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: I think that's what's going to happen here. They're going 420 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: to regather, they're going to pick their own person, They're 421 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 2: going to vote that person in that's going to be 422 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: the head of their organization. I don't think there might 423 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: be some people that want to fight for it. I 424 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 2: don't think that's quite what's going to happen here because 425 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: they're so sophisticated. But one thing I do want to 426 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: mention Joe is you got to understand there's a lot 427 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 2: of small factions of cartels within under the umbrella of 428 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: the cartel. HI he's going to in generation, so those 429 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: they go under their own name, but supply and report 430 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 2: directly to see J and G. Those factions are the 431 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 2: ones you actually have to worry about because they might 432 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: go rogue and they might want to do something on 433 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: their own without the permission of the big organization. 434 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because that was the 435 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: next question. Did we disrupt or did whoever to come 436 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: out disrupt the supply chain? Is there going to be 437 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: a slowing of drugs and whatever else that they're working 438 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: on in that specific cartel between now and whenever they 439 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: find a new leader, or does that machine just keep 440 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: on going. 441 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 3: That's a great question. 442 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: I actually I think what's going to happen is we 443 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: might see a surge at the border, possible fentannel and 444 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 2: meth kind of Listen, they're not going to stop moving 445 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 2: their drugs, and so it's still being manufactured. There's still 446 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: is still piling up. It kind of reminds me of 447 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: what happened during COVID. All of a sudden, there was 448 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 2: tons and tons of drugs on the Mexicans Mexican side, 449 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: and they couldn't get it across. I think right now 450 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 2: they're going to say, oh yeah, well here you go, 451 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: and they're going to try to push as much of 452 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: that poison into our country. But because of the way 453 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: we are now, set up on the other side of 454 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: the border with our military border patrol and standon locals. 455 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: It's going to be you're going to see a lot 456 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 2: of these seizures encounters go up as well. 457 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: Is a lot of the drugs still coming across the border? 458 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: Victor because another the border is closed. We have not 459 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: released any illegal aliens into this country since President Trump 460 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: took office. That's an unbelievable stat and it's true. But 461 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: you're still getting drugs come across the border. How are 462 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: they doing it now? Did they change exactly how they 463 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: did it before? Biden would just let him in and 464 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: just he was eating ice cream. He didn't know what 465 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: was going on. So it was a porous border that's 466 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: now been locked down. Are they doing it through tunnels? 467 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: Are they doing it through the sea? Are they doing 468 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: it somehow, you know, smuggling across in big rigs. They're 469 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: still getting the drugs in at a much lower rate, 470 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: thank god, but they're still getting them in. How are 471 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: they doing it now and compared to how they did 472 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: it two years ago? 473 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: So let me start by answering that we've seen the 474 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: fifty six percent drop of fentannel coming to the border 475 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: a mandelieable stat. The President mentioned that stat yesterday in 476 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 2: the speech. By the way, yes the drugs are still coming. Yes, 477 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: the cartels, believe it or not, have gone back to 478 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: the original old ways when I was still an narcotics 479 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 2: agent of how they are using the regular landboard parts 480 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: of entry to bring the drugs, vehicles, you name it, 481 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: if you can think about it. They're gonna redo it 482 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: and they're gonna go back to those tactics again. Under 483 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: the Biden years, we saw a lot of it in 484 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: between the ports of entry because there was nobody there. 485 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: There was no border patroy. Remember. So right now that 486 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: they're there, they're actually going to go back to the 487 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 2: port of entries the cargo areas, yes, semi semis and 488 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: many others, money and other things going through the border. 489 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: So yes, it's reduced drastically, but it doesn't mean it's stopped. 490 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: It is Victor Avulo, the assistant director on DCP, former 491 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: federal agent. He was in a gunfight with a Mexican cartel. 492 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: In fact, his partner Heimi Zapata was killed. You were shot, 493 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: and I thank god that you survived. Let's talk about 494 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: the Canadian border. I had an interview the other day 495 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: where they said, you know, these cartels have enough money 496 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: and they have enough wherewithal the go around the contiguous 497 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: United States and then start bringing the drugs in from 498 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: Canada instead. Is that border a focus right now at all? 499 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: Are we looking at that one to tighten that one 500 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: up to. 501 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 502 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: We We can't forget about our northern border and Canada 503 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, going are. 504 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: The cartels doing that? Are the cartels doing that? Are 505 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: they going to Canada? 506 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely, Fentanyl, there's a there's fentonal trafficking through that 507 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: border as well. Listen, they're gonna find any porous area. 508 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 2: They're not gonna be able to bring it to the 509 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: southern border. They'll go through the northern border. And we 510 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: are in community constant communication with our Canadian partners because 511 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: of that, and we are actually meeting with them and 512 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: talking to them. Our international component was just at a 513 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 2: big conference in Canada. So we're not ignoring the northern border. 514 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: And I'm glad you bring it up because that's still 515 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: a big factor when when we see all this activity. 516 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, maybe Cartoli is going to 517 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 2: be generation is going to say, well, we can't you know, 518 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: all the attention is on us. Now, maybe we find 519 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 2: different routes in our different contacts. 520 00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: Remember you and. 521 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 2: I I have talked about this, Joe. They're here in 522 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: the US, They're in Canada and in sixty five countries 523 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: around the world. They're not just in Mexico, and they're 524 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: going to start reaching out to those contacts all over 525 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: the countries to move their drugs. 526 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: Accordingly, let's break this down. They are here, You're right 527 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: And by the way, it's Victor Ovula. Go follow him 528 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: on social media. Victor ovulas speaks dot com. He's the 529 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: assistant director O in DCP doing an amazing job along 530 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: with our good friend Sarah Carter. Let's talk about who's here, because, 531 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: as you and I have talked about a million times now, 532 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: the border is wide open, or what it was, I 533 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: should say under Biden, under my orcis under Kamala Harris. 534 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: They purposely opened the border. I think for votes, but 535 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: what do I know? But opening the border also let 536 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: trendier Agua in it, let MS thirteen in it, let 537 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: the cartels in. You know where I live. I'm in 538 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: the San Antonio area, and of course Houston not far away, 539 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: Dallas not far away. The entirety of Texas, I would assume, 540 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: and I want you to tell me, even right or wrong, 541 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: has cartelhouses, has sleeper sales of cartels that are just 542 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: waiting to bring some more drugs in or maybe start 543 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: some ahem, big a deal, is it? Who's here? Victor? 544 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: Do we know. 545 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 2: They're all here? 546 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, they're all here. They all have their. 547 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: We have maps that we show of the different concentration 548 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: areas and states of where certain cartels are highly concentrated. 549 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: Some in Texas, some in Atlanta, New York, California, Colorado, 550 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 2: you name it. They're everywhere in every state. And they 551 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 2: used to be here temporarily. They used to come and go. 552 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: Now they have people permanently here. And the bigger part 553 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: that a lot of people sometimes when I start talking 554 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: about this about to tell you, they don't want to 555 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: kind of believe this. But there's a lot of people 556 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 2: that the cartel expands their tentacles, their network to a 557 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: lot of people in places where you might not ever 558 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: think that they have cartel activity. And I'm talking of 559 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: regular US citizens that work at places that you might 560 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: visit on a daily basis that are connected to these people, 561 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: either as simple as providing information or sometimes even more 562 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: nefarious and actually being participants. 563 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: How do we identify somebody who's here who's a member 564 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: of a cartel. You're right, they're living in suburban neighborhoods. 565 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: They've got a nice, big house, their kids go to 566 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: school with everybody in the neighborhood, and they might be 567 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: cartel members. How can you possibly identify them? Because not 568 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: everybody's going to have tattoos that say I'm MS thirteen 569 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: or I'm trending arragua. How do we find out who 570 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: they are? Do they have to actually be in the 571 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: commission of a crime, or do we have some sort 572 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: of a database somewhere where we could start matching these 573 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: people up. How does that work? 574 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: It's very difficult to identify them. And I'll give you 575 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: one example. One was a lady working at a courthouse 576 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 2: that was providing information of paperwork coming in wow to 577 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 2: the courthouse, you know, to the cartel member. So that's 578 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 2: just one example. There's many others. There's lawyers, there's accountants, 579 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: there's people that handle with businesses and the money laundering 580 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: aspect of which is the biggest portion. They got to 581 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 2: put their billions of dollars somewhere, the money goes back south, 582 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: but then it returns back north and it's incorporated into 583 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: the world banking system. And it is very difficult to, 584 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: you know, like you said, identify these individuals. They're not 585 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: they don't look like me. They look like everyday Americans, 586 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 2: and they're not wearing cowboy hats and cowboy boots either, 587 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 2: and so it's very difficult. And sometimes yes, it's up 588 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: until we have an encounter with them, either a legal 589 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 2: encounter or a criminal justice encounter with them, that we 590 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: start identifying them and questioning them. But it's through investigations 591 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: that we start identifying these people and these big conspiracies 592 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,239 Speaker 2: that involve people that you never thought would have been 593 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: part of it. 594 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: Victor Avula, Assistant Director O and DCP, good friend of mine. 595 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: You know, we haven't gone to the border yet. We 596 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: have to do that. You have to take me down 597 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: there at some point. But you guys are down here. 598 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: I would still like to see what it's all about. 599 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: I've crossed the Canadian border a lot of times. And 600 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: the reason why I bring that up is because I 601 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: used to live in New York and we would travel 602 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: back and forth to Michigan you'd go through Canada to 603 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: get there, Victor. This is what they literally said, what's 604 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: your citizenship the United States? How long are you going 605 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: to be in Canada? How about six hours going to 606 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: drive through? Okay, have a good day. That's it. They 607 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: didn't do anything else. So has that changed? In ernest? 608 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: Are we now saying asking a few more questions at 609 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: least what are you trying to do getting from you know, 610 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: from Canada and into the United States? Are we doing 611 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: something different now? 612 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a little bit more cumbersome than that. 613 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: I went to Canada and crossed at two different ports 614 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: of entry uh in the same day, and immediately that 615 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 2: was a big red flag for them, which it should 616 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: have been. H I you know, I easily explained that 617 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: I had gone on this border versus return on the 618 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: other one, and and they caught that that, you know, 619 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: everything's being monitored. Is a lot more attention to that. 620 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 2: And on the southern border, by the way, you're looking 621 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 2: at four hour wait times on that line to cross 622 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: into El Paso or McCallen. It's not the same as 623 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 2: it used to be. And I know people used to 624 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people want to go into 625 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: Mexico to buy goods and groceries and tortillas or whatever. 626 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden they're like, why I'm 627 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 2: spending three hours in line which all of this, by 628 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: the way, that affects the economy of Mexico. Look at 629 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: what happened in import of Wayata. People are not going 630 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 2: to go for spring break there. I wouldn't recommend it, 631 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 2: but that's that's the ripple effect, the bad ripple effect 632 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 2: of this cartel activity. So yes, it affects across the board. 633 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: One last question the cartels, and I do want to 634 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: get into Nancy Guthrie if you don't mind, but I've 635 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: got to ask you this. As we're watching the boats 636 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: being blown out of the water off the coast of Venezuela, 637 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: as we're seeing Venezuela and the president taken out on 638 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: a warrant and his wife taken out, did that wake 639 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: up the cartels in Mexico at all? Did they think 640 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: to themselves, Oh, crap, this guy isn't messing around. We 641 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: better be more careful. Or do they not care? They're like, 642 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: this is the business, this is what I'm doing. If 643 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: I die doing it, whatever, Because if I were in 644 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: that business, and God knows, I don't have the wherewithal 645 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: of be in that business. And you started blowing people 646 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: up like me in boats in the open water, I 647 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: might think twice about how I do things. 648 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 3: Actually is both. 649 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: They definitely pay attention, They definitely have all the intulo 650 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: what's going on, but they don't care. They're still going 651 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: to continue to do it, although they don't ignore it. 652 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: They're very well aware of what's going on with Venezuela. 653 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 2: But there is some reaction at least from the governments. 654 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: Look at what's happening. We're talking about Mexico. Look at 655 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: the reaction from Columbia. I mean that is a one 656 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: eighty from Columbia. And then another thing they have talked 657 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: about is Mexico and other countries doing some tremendous seizures. 658 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: I mean Mexico just alone took down four tons of cocaine. 659 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: Joe had no idea. 660 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: Are we reporting that here because I didn't see that. 661 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: Well, that's the problem. We need to put the message out. 662 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: And the four tons of cocaine is a significant seizure. 663 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, they've taken down ten tons 664 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: in the last week and a half just from the 665 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: Mexico coast alone. So it does have an effect when 666 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: you take Madudo out, and absolutely the governments are paying attention. 667 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: Whether they're going to make them stop, I don't know, 668 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: but it's definitely making them do some different actions. 669 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: Victor Ovula, the assistant director owned DCP great friend of ours. 670 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: Go to Victor ovula speaks dot com, follow him on socials. 671 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: Keep up the great work, brother. It's good to see 672 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: you again, and I'll shoot up next time. I feel 673 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: like I'm under dress today. What happened. 674 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 3: No worries, man, I always appreciate the time for me, Joe, 675 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: thank you, Good. 676 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: To see you, Victor. Amazing inside of information from Victor Ovula, 677 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: and of course we're going to keep on bringing you 678 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: all this kind of content that you want. Whether it's 679 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: the gu Three case, other true crime, if it's deep investigations, 680 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: if it's something where the big guys taking advantage of 681 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: the little guy, where there's a villain and a hero, 682 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring it to you right here. Make sure 683 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: you're following this channel. This is Unshaken and Unafraid with 684 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: Joe Pegs. Actually it's my YouTube channel. If you're not 685 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: subscribed yet, but you liking the content, why not subscribe 686 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: right now. We're gonna drop another one very soon.