1 00:00:02,630 --> 00:00:03,550 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:08,150 Speaker 2: Do you procrastinate or do you have a collection of 3 00:00:08,940 --> 00:00:13,820 Speaker 2: bags or boxes that you just can't seem to part with? 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,259 Speaker 2: Does your house feel like a mess sometimes? Oh, friend, 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,509 Speaker 2: if any of these things resonate with you, you are 6 00:00:19,530 --> 00:00:23,190 Speaker 2: going to love my guest. Today, my guest is Dana K. White. 7 00:00:23,870 --> 00:00:28,070 Speaker 2: She has written a number of books on decluttering and 8 00:00:28,290 --> 00:00:30,670 Speaker 2: organizing your home. And now she has a brand new 9 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: book on procrastination. But she's a sweet Christian friend who 10 00:00:33,820 --> 00:00:36,020 Speaker 2: lives down the street from me. Well, a couple hours 11 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 2: here in Texas. And she's a treasure of information and knowledge. 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,180 Speaker 2: If you are the kind of person who has read 13 00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:48,669 Speaker 2: other resources on these things and not gotten anywhere with them. 14 00:00:49,110 --> 00:00:51,790 Speaker 2: I think you're really going to enjoy our interview and 15 00:00:52,270 --> 00:00:55,090 Speaker 2: stay tuned to the end because I interviewed her once before. 16 00:00:55,130 --> 00:00:58,070 Speaker 2: It was a really popular episode. It was probably five 17 00:00:58,110 --> 00:01:01,810 Speaker 2: years ago or more. And she dropped the truth bomb 18 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:05,500 Speaker 2: that had really seemingly nothing to do with cleaning out 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,550 Speaker 2: one's closet. But the truth bomb she dropped. That was 20 00:01:08,569 --> 00:01:10,990 Speaker 2: so powerful. I even quoted her in a book. So 21 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:14,009 Speaker 2: stay tuned. You're going to want to listen for that. 22 00:01:14,130 --> 00:01:16,810 Speaker 2: It was so insightful. Well, hey, if this is your 23 00:01:16,830 --> 00:01:19,130 Speaker 2: first time to listen to the Compared to You podcast, 24 00:01:19,569 --> 00:01:21,869 Speaker 2: I'm Heather Creekmore. I'm your host. I've written a number 25 00:01:21,910 --> 00:01:25,670 Speaker 2: of books. I talk a lot about body image, comparison. 26 00:01:25,690 --> 00:01:29,610 Speaker 2: I've got a devotional on aging. And we here at 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,300 Speaker 2: Compared to You just want to help encourage you to 28 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: grow as a Christian woman and to not get stuck 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,690 Speaker 2: in some of these places. that so many Christian women 30 00:01:38,709 --> 00:01:41,810 Speaker 2: get stuck, like body image and food issues and comparison 31 00:01:41,870 --> 00:01:44,330 Speaker 2: issues and all of that. If you're interested in learning 32 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:46,110 Speaker 2: more about what we do here at Compared to Who, 33 00:01:46,130 --> 00:01:49,870 Speaker 2: I hope you go to improvebodyimage.com and you can find 34 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:52,190 Speaker 2: out about all the things. You can access our more 35 00:01:52,210 --> 00:01:55,010 Speaker 2: than 500 podcast episodes, find all my books. I've got 36 00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:57,690 Speaker 2: YouVersion reading plans. And I'd love to have you sign 37 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: up for my weekly newsletter too. And you can give 38 00:02:00,380 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: me a little free gift if you go do that. 39 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: So go to improvebodyimage.com. Thanks for listening. Well, let's get 40 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: to today's interview. Dana White, welcome back to the Compared 41 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:20,750 Speaker 2: to Who podcast. 42 00:02:21,460 --> 00:02:23,500 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. This is so much fun 43 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: to get to see you again. I feel like it's 44 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:25,660 Speaker 3: been forever. 45 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,020 Speaker 2: It has been forever. And I should have looked up 46 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: the last time you were on the show because it 47 00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:34,299 Speaker 2: was a while ago. But we're going to actually go 48 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 2: back and talk about one of the things we talked 49 00:02:36,419 --> 00:02:40,050 Speaker 2: about because it was so good. And I got so 50 00:02:40,110 --> 00:02:41,889 Speaker 2: much great feedback from it. In fact, I wrote about 51 00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:45,030 Speaker 2: it in my 40-day body image workbook because your perspective 52 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: changed me. And so I can't wait for us to 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: talk about that again. I'm excited to hear what it 54 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,180 Speaker 2: was that I said. Oh, it was so good. I 55 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:53,899 Speaker 2: hope you remember it. 56 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,900 Speaker 1: I probably don't, but go ahead. 57 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: But before we jump into all the things, I would love... 58 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,540 Speaker 2: for the audience just to know a little bit more 59 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:05,270 Speaker 2: about you. I mean, you've been writing books. Well, first 60 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,310 Speaker 2: you started writing under a pseudonym. You didn't even use 61 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:11,870 Speaker 2: your real name, but you're writing books about being messy 62 00:03:11,950 --> 00:03:14,380 Speaker 2: or how to be less messy. And oh my word, 63 00:03:14,419 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: you're speaking my love language from the very beginning. Do 64 00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:19,459 Speaker 2: you remember you and I spoke at the same event 65 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 2: in Dallas? Yeah. Now that you say that, like 13 66 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 2: or 14 years ago, it was a Dallas Moms blog event. Yep. 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,090 Speaker 2: And I don't think you even had your name on stage. 68 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:37,369 Speaker 2: You were just a slob comes clean. Or I just 69 00:03:37,410 --> 00:03:41,690 Speaker 2: remember there was this like mysterious aura to who is 70 00:03:41,790 --> 00:03:44,670 Speaker 2: this person. So will you just kind of like tell 71 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:46,570 Speaker 2: us a little bit like, okay, what happened? How'd you 72 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:49,970 Speaker 2: get started? And what have you been up to in 73 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:50,850 Speaker 2: the last decade? 74 00:03:52,110 --> 00:03:52,590 Speaker 1: Yeah, really. 75 00:03:52,650 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: So 17 years ago in August, I started what I 76 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,780 Speaker 3: thought was a temporary. anonymous blog about getting my house 77 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:08,250 Speaker 3: under control because I wanted to be a writer and 78 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:09,730 Speaker 3: I felt like I needed to figure out my house 79 00:04:09,790 --> 00:04:12,670 Speaker 3: first because my house was an absolute disaster and it 80 00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:14,430 Speaker 3: always had been. And I had tried and I had 81 00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:16,750 Speaker 3: tried and I couldn't seem to do it. So I thought, okay, 82 00:04:16,850 --> 00:04:19,050 Speaker 3: I'll use this as a way to stay focused and 83 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:20,570 Speaker 3: then I'll stop writing about that. 84 00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:22,890 Speaker 1: And then I'll write about something else. And here we are. 85 00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:24,740 Speaker 1: And I still write about the same thing. 86 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:30,500 Speaker 3: Because, um, I realized that, um, I'm not the only 87 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 3: one out there. You know, in the beginning, I wasn't 88 00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:35,020 Speaker 3: teaching anything, but as people started to read it, they 89 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,659 Speaker 3: were like, this is how my brain works. 90 00:04:36,740 --> 00:04:38,940 Speaker 1: Teach me what you're doing. And I was like, absolutely not. 91 00:04:38,980 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Why would you want to learn from me? That makes 92 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:40,930 Speaker 1: no sense. 93 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:43,790 Speaker 3: And then several years in, as I got things figured out, 94 00:04:43,870 --> 00:04:47,169 Speaker 3: I realized that the missing piece that I had never 95 00:04:47,190 --> 00:04:51,330 Speaker 3: been able to find was somebody to explain how to 96 00:04:51,390 --> 00:04:57,890 Speaker 3: go from like legit disaster to okay, this is how 97 00:04:57,910 --> 00:05:00,330 Speaker 3: this works, you know? And so that was like most 98 00:05:00,370 --> 00:05:03,589 Speaker 3: people who would write about these things, write about it 99 00:05:03,670 --> 00:05:06,630 Speaker 3: because they're naturally organized and they enjoy it. And so 100 00:05:06,970 --> 00:05:10,219 Speaker 3: their brains work very differently from mine. Um, and so 101 00:05:10,260 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: they were, you know, imagining this starting point and I 102 00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 3: was like, oh no, no, I'm way back from that 103 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,700 Speaker 3: starting point. So, um, so yeah, I teach that and I've, 104 00:05:19,779 --> 00:05:22,990 Speaker 3: this is my sixth book that's coming out, um, or 105 00:05:23,050 --> 00:05:25,390 Speaker 3: maybe has already come out at the point when this releases, 106 00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: but And I've shifted into procrastination because I realized that 107 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: as I developed a decluttering process, as I learned how 108 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:40,930 Speaker 3: to face completely overwhelming situations and get started and keep 109 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,310 Speaker 3: going and get through to the end, I realized, oh, 110 00:05:43,850 --> 00:05:47,029 Speaker 3: what I've actually been doing is beating procrastination. What I've 111 00:05:47,070 --> 00:05:49,730 Speaker 3: actually been teaching is how to beat procrastination. And so 112 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:52,860 Speaker 3: I've taken what I've learned. And I've put it into 113 00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:55,060 Speaker 3: a process that can apply to all sorts of things, 114 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:57,290 Speaker 3: not just clutter and home. 115 00:05:58,050 --> 00:06:01,830 Speaker 2: Amazing. I can actually see on the other side of 116 00:06:01,870 --> 00:06:06,310 Speaker 2: my computer, my dining room, which is filled with, wait 117 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: for it, Legos. The kids are too old for Legos. 118 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: They're worth something. But man, I started so... well, Dana, 119 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,140 Speaker 2: I mean, I like have my little photo booth. I'm 120 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:26,510 Speaker 2: taking pictures. I'm listing. And I probably made it an hour. 121 00:06:26,710 --> 00:06:28,770 Speaker 2: And then I was like, this isn't fun anymore. And 122 00:06:28,810 --> 00:06:32,190 Speaker 2: so now they've been on my dining room table, maybe 123 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:33,770 Speaker 2: two months. It's so embarrassing. 124 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:38,330 Speaker 1: No, it's very, it's very normal. And I don't know 125 00:06:38,350 --> 00:06:40,979 Speaker 1: if you would jump into the procrastination. Yeah, let's do it. 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:41,409 Speaker 2: Let's do it. 127 00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: But, you know, the reality is that That is a 128 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:53,220 Speaker 3: huge project. We, and I'm speaking for myself as a procrastinator, 129 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: we tend to be project brained, meaning like I'm going 130 00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:58,540 Speaker 3: to do this, this, and this. And yet in a 131 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:04,420 Speaker 3: lot of situations we fizzle because we started huge and 132 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,620 Speaker 3: we went ahead and pulled out every single Lego and 133 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: covered the entire table. And we were like, I'm going 134 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:13,610 Speaker 3: to do this whole thing. And then we fizzle. And 135 00:07:13,670 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: then the next time you're like, well, I fizzled last time. 136 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: I got to gear up more energy this time. I've 137 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,870 Speaker 3: got to really, really be a different person than I 138 00:07:22,930 --> 00:07:26,550 Speaker 3: was last time. And instead to say, okay, what is 139 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:29,450 Speaker 3: the actual smallest thing I could do? If you were 140 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:31,670 Speaker 3: in the situation you were in before, it would be different, 141 00:07:31,690 --> 00:07:33,090 Speaker 3: but let's look at it as it is right now. 142 00:07:33,130 --> 00:07:36,170 Speaker 3: There's the table is covered in Legos, right? What's the 143 00:07:36,270 --> 00:07:40,890 Speaker 3: smallest thing that I could do that I already know 144 00:07:40,930 --> 00:07:42,590 Speaker 3: would have to be done if I was ever to 145 00:07:42,710 --> 00:07:44,650 Speaker 3: complete this project. 146 00:07:44,670 --> 00:07:45,290 Speaker 2: Okay. 147 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:47,450 Speaker 3: And so I'm going to go in, I'm going to say, 148 00:07:47,470 --> 00:07:51,850 Speaker 3: I'm going to list one thing. So I'm not saying 149 00:07:51,910 --> 00:07:53,350 Speaker 3: that today is the day I'm going to finish this. 150 00:07:54,060 --> 00:07:56,540 Speaker 3: I'm going to say, what's the thing that's already kind 151 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,380 Speaker 3: of packaged up and photographable. 152 00:07:58,540 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: Okay. 153 00:07:59,200 --> 00:07:59,550 Speaker 1: Here it is. 154 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,770 Speaker 3: I'm going to do this one item and I'm going 155 00:08:01,790 --> 00:08:03,130 Speaker 3: to do that. I'm going to get it all the 156 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:04,790 Speaker 3: way listed and I'm going to go ahead and I'm 157 00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:06,310 Speaker 3: going to put it in the thing that I'm going 158 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:08,670 Speaker 3: to ship it in or whatever, you know, and I'm 159 00:08:08,690 --> 00:08:10,070 Speaker 3: going to do that. I'm going to have that ready 160 00:08:10,090 --> 00:08:11,510 Speaker 3: to go. It's going to be labeled and that one's 161 00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:12,010 Speaker 3: going to be done. 162 00:08:12,650 --> 00:08:12,870 Speaker 2: Okay. 163 00:08:13,010 --> 00:08:14,810 Speaker 3: Because if I do that, then I can stop at 164 00:08:14,870 --> 00:08:17,370 Speaker 3: any time. Knowing I can stop at any time is 165 00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:19,610 Speaker 3: the thing that makes me willing to get started. Okay. 166 00:08:19,910 --> 00:08:22,060 Speaker 3: And then I go one item at a time and 167 00:08:22,070 --> 00:08:25,130 Speaker 3: then Because the reason that you're not getting. 168 00:08:24,940 --> 00:08:27,260 Speaker 1: Back to it is you're like, that's a huge project. 169 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: I failed at it last time. 170 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:33,890 Speaker 3: What do I have to do differently this time to 171 00:08:33,929 --> 00:08:34,609 Speaker 3: not fail at it? 172 00:08:34,650 --> 00:08:36,830 Speaker 1: And it just grows and grows and grows in our mind. 173 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: So are you secretly trying to get me like a 174 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,260 Speaker 2: dopamine hit from doing one where I'll be like, yes, 175 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: I did one. 176 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:46,170 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a dopamine expert, but yes. 177 00:08:46,429 --> 00:08:48,870 Speaker 3: I mean, like that's, you know, well, actually, if we 178 00:08:48,910 --> 00:08:52,689 Speaker 3: go back into my, the very beginning of my anti-procrastination process, 179 00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: the first step is just to look like non-committal because 180 00:08:56,170 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 3: it's been growing in your brain, right? Like you're looking 181 00:08:59,260 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: at it right now, but it's also been growing, like 182 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: all the things that that's going to involve. So instead 183 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,569 Speaker 3: you go and you look and you say, okay, all 184 00:09:06,590 --> 00:09:09,059 Speaker 3: I'm doing right now is just looking. I am not 185 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,980 Speaker 3: attaching something to that. Like I'm not going to look 186 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,220 Speaker 3: and finish. I'm just going to look and see like, 187 00:09:15,740 --> 00:09:18,970 Speaker 3: what do I already have done? Which things were already 188 00:09:18,990 --> 00:09:22,630 Speaker 3: packaged up? Which things have I already taken pictures of? 189 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:24,830 Speaker 3: I just didn't Well, I'm just going to look and 190 00:09:24,929 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: see so that I know, and that removes the unknown. 191 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,150 Speaker 1: And it gets me started. 192 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: Like it's a legitimate step of the process, even though 193 00:09:31,660 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: it feels like that's too unimportant to count. 194 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: But if I don't do it, I can't actually start. 195 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,020 Speaker 1: So I'm going to count that as a real thing. 196 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: And then I'm going to do the easiest things and say, 197 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: what do I already know would have to be done? 198 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: Well, I would have to, you know, put the, so it's, 199 00:09:45,020 --> 00:09:46,540 Speaker 1: it's a process for sure. 200 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:50,660 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. One, like, I don't know if you get 201 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: into this in the book necessarily, but like what's really 202 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,060 Speaker 2: the obstacle in our heads, right? Is it just that 203 00:09:57,110 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: this is just too big or? or is it that 204 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,260 Speaker 2: it's going to take too long because I know like 205 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,459 Speaker 2: when I've thought about cleaning out the closet for example 206 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: it's like oh that'll take too long but then when 207 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: I do it I'm like okay that was really only 208 00:10:09,660 --> 00:10:13,090 Speaker 2: like three or four hours you know it wasn't as 209 00:10:13,170 --> 00:10:14,710 Speaker 2: bad as I thought it was going to be like 210 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: what's what's going on in our heads There's. 211 00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:17,660 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff. 212 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 3: A lot of it is overthinking. A lot of it 213 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:24,859 Speaker 3: is trying to solve the problem in my head before 214 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:28,330 Speaker 3: I actually do anything in a, out of a desire 215 00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:30,550 Speaker 3: to not waste any time out of a desire to 216 00:10:30,590 --> 00:10:35,050 Speaker 3: be efficient. I need to go ahead and figure out 217 00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:37,930 Speaker 3: exactly what I'm going to do, predict every single problem 218 00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:42,530 Speaker 3: and solve every single predicted problem before I start trying 219 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,620 Speaker 3: But when we haven't actually started, it's all in our imagination. 220 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:50,300 Speaker 3: And then it can grow and grow and grow and 221 00:10:50,340 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: grow more complicated, which gives us endless numbers of problems 222 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: that could happen that we need to solve, which keep 223 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,780 Speaker 3: us from starting. So instead to say, I'm going to 224 00:11:00,860 --> 00:11:04,740 Speaker 3: break that overthinking by going and looking at my actual 225 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: situation and counting that as success. So I talk a 226 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:12,650 Speaker 3: lot in the book about all the different reasons why 227 00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:16,250 Speaker 3: we procrastinate, but a lot of it boils down to overthinking. 228 00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:21,570 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I know, I know my audience, because you 229 00:11:21,630 --> 00:11:24,449 Speaker 2: guys are a lot like me. We are great overthinkers, 230 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:29,870 Speaker 2: fabulous overthinkers, like A plus students when it comes to overthinking. 231 00:11:29,890 --> 00:11:30,350 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. 232 00:11:30,390 --> 00:11:30,900 Speaker 2: Me too. Me too. 233 00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:31,329 Speaker 1: Yes. 234 00:11:32,190 --> 00:11:33,770 Speaker 2: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. 235 00:11:33,809 --> 00:11:38,070 Speaker 3: So like, for example, the fourth step in my anti-procrastination 236 00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:39,229 Speaker 3: process is to make your plan. 237 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: Okay. Fourth step. Fourth step. 238 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: Okay. 239 00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: And so just knowing that makes a lot of people go, wait, what? 240 00:11:46,450 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: No. 241 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:47,730 Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. 242 00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:48,770 Speaker 2: Plan is step one. 243 00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:51,330 Speaker 1: I have to make a plan before I start. 244 00:11:52,010 --> 00:11:55,450 Speaker 3: And I'm like, but making a plan before you've actually 245 00:11:55,570 --> 00:11:57,490 Speaker 3: even looked at what you're dealing with. 246 00:11:57,850 --> 00:11:58,190 Speaker 2: Yeah. 247 00:12:00,090 --> 00:12:03,729 Speaker 3: We feel like we're doing something by making this big, 248 00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:04,810 Speaker 3: complicated plan. 249 00:12:05,690 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: And if that works, great. 250 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,099 Speaker 3: But if you're procrastinating and yet you've been making a 251 00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:15,220 Speaker 3: plan for the last six years on how you're going 252 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,180 Speaker 3: to do this, then that making a plan is not working. 253 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:21,950 Speaker 3: So instead, we go and we look at our actual 254 00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:24,890 Speaker 3: situation so that by the time we make a plan, 255 00:12:24,929 --> 00:12:26,089 Speaker 3: we know what we're dealing with. 256 00:12:27,010 --> 00:12:29,050 Speaker 1: Step two is to go ahead and do the things 257 00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:31,390 Speaker 1: that I already know would have to be done if 258 00:12:31,429 --> 00:12:32,650 Speaker 1: this thing was ever to happen. 259 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: And so, okay, I'm going to go ahead and do 260 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 3: those things. 261 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: As I do that, I'm not procrastinating anymore. 262 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:40,100 Speaker 2: Okay. 263 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of it. So I actually know things. 264 00:12:44,179 --> 00:12:47,380 Speaker 3: I am learning things as I go. And I'm making 265 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 3: the whole overwhelming thing that I've been procrastinating on smaller 266 00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 3: because I've just done things that I already knew had 267 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 3: to be done. So the next step before we make 268 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: a plan, the step three is noncommittal experimentation. It's to say, 269 00:13:03,059 --> 00:13:05,500 Speaker 3: I'm going to get in there. I'm going to experiment 270 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,710 Speaker 3: with some things. I'm going to experiment with, you know what, 271 00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:14,010 Speaker 3: I'm going to put these three small Lego sets into 272 00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:18,150 Speaker 3: a group to list together. I'm going to just see 273 00:13:18,190 --> 00:13:20,350 Speaker 3: if that, if what happens, you know, I'm not saying 274 00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:22,670 Speaker 3: that I'm gonna do this with all of them. I'm 275 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: going to just see what happens. And maybe that gets 276 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 3: it out a lot faster. Maybe it makes the price 277 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: go higher. I don't know, you know, like, but I'm, 278 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: I'm not committing. I don't have to know everything before 279 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:37,410 Speaker 3: I start. I don't have I'm not saying this is 280 00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 3: the right way. I'm not saying I'm ever going to 281 00:13:40,220 --> 00:13:43,699 Speaker 3: do it this way again. I'm noncommittal, but I am experimenting. 282 00:13:44,179 --> 00:13:47,940 Speaker 3: And the things that I learn through facing my actual 283 00:13:47,980 --> 00:13:52,860 Speaker 3: situation by looking, I get so much done just by 284 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 3: doing the easy stuff. I noncommittally experiment. I actually am 285 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: learning what this problem is like and how to deal 286 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 3: with it. By the time I make my plan, I'm 287 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,010 Speaker 3: a different person because I'm in the middle of it. 288 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,950 Speaker 3: I'm no longer imagining things. I actually know things. I 289 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:14,410 Speaker 3: know things that work. I know things that don't work. 290 00:14:15,010 --> 00:14:17,510 Speaker 3: And the thing I'm making a plan about is so 291 00:14:17,570 --> 00:14:18,490 Speaker 3: much smaller and. 292 00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:19,970 Speaker 1: Less overwhelming than it used to be. 293 00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:23,330 Speaker 3: So the plan I'm making is based in reality as 294 00:14:23,370 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: opposed to in my imagination, my overthinking imagination. 295 00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: That's really good because I'm thinking, of course, that applies 296 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,190 Speaker 2: to every tangible house project. But I'm thinking like even 297 00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:39,830 Speaker 2: when I wrote the 40 Day Body Image Workbook, I 298 00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:42,750 Speaker 2: started it with a quiz kind of for the same reason. 299 00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:47,050 Speaker 2: Because it's like you actually have to see like what 300 00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:53,750 Speaker 2: parts of your issues are actually your issues before you 301 00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:55,530 Speaker 2: can go forward. And I just think of how many 302 00:14:55,550 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: women I talk to every week who... I mean, we 303 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: can buy a course on anything on the internet now, right? 304 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,220 Speaker 2: But it's like, love to buy the plan, download the plan. 305 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,860 Speaker 2: And then I don't remember where my password and login 306 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,970 Speaker 2: is for that plan three months later because I got 307 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,350 Speaker 2: the whole plan. I downloaded the whole plan, but it's like, oh, 308 00:15:15,420 --> 00:15:18,290 Speaker 2: I wasn't actually ready to have a plan yet because 309 00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:20,370 Speaker 2: I hadn't done those first three steps you mentioned. So 310 00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:26,690 Speaker 2: that's really good. That's really solid, Dana. Anything else on procrastination? 311 00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:30,140 Speaker 2: before we turn, turn gears, like any, like, is there 312 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,620 Speaker 2: an encouragement you could give someone who's just like, no 313 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: procrastination is just me. That's my middle name. 314 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:37,740 Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, that I called the book 315 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,860 Speaker 1: procrastinators get stuff done. Because I think it's funny. It's 316 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: kind of cute. 317 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: Right. 318 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 3: And it's fun, but also like a big part of 319 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:51,590 Speaker 3: it is the identity piece is to realize this is 320 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,460 Speaker 3: how my brain works. And so often it's, we look 321 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: at someone doing the thing we want to do. And 322 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 3: we think the answer to my procrastination is to not 323 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:04,260 Speaker 3: be me anymore. 324 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: It's to be them. And that's not possible. 325 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,110 Speaker 3: And so we, we try to figure out how can 326 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,090 Speaker 3: I be this different person? How can I be a 327 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:21,380 Speaker 3: person who's not me? And because that's impossible, we just 328 00:16:21,410 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: kind of spin out in that and never get started. 329 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: So instead, the reason I said procrastinators get stuff done 330 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: is like, this is how we do it. Like we 331 00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: accept this is how my brain works. And so this 332 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:36,460 Speaker 3: is what I need to do to actually get started 333 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: instead of maybe somebody who's like, you know, like somebody 334 00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:42,979 Speaker 3: who runs marathons and they can't imagine not running marathons. 335 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,500 Speaker 3: And most people who run marathons have had to really 336 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,140 Speaker 3: work through a lot of things to get to that point. 337 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:48,380 Speaker 2: Right. 338 00:16:48,930 --> 00:16:50,950 Speaker 3: But if you go, I want to be like that 339 00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:53,950 Speaker 3: person who didn't have to work through much. They just 340 00:16:53,970 --> 00:16:56,830 Speaker 3: were like, running marathons is fun. I want to be 341 00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:59,270 Speaker 3: the person who says that running marathons is fun, you know? 342 00:16:59,630 --> 00:17:01,030 Speaker 3: And so you're like, I want to be like, and 343 00:17:01,050 --> 00:17:03,070 Speaker 3: they're like, oh yeah, all you do is you just 344 00:17:03,130 --> 00:17:06,429 Speaker 3: get up, you know, three hours before everybody else that 345 00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:09,150 Speaker 3: you know. And you, all you do is you just 346 00:17:09,310 --> 00:17:11,990 Speaker 3: run and you just do these, you know, just do this. 347 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: And I want to be that person. But if I'm 348 00:17:16,580 --> 00:17:20,110 Speaker 3: not that person, which I'm not, And then it's like 349 00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:22,590 Speaker 3: that advice that I'm thinking, well, if that's how I'm 350 00:17:22,609 --> 00:17:26,150 Speaker 3: supposed to do it, I can't actually do that. 351 00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: And then it feels like it's impossible. 352 00:17:27,780 --> 00:17:29,739 Speaker 3: Instead of me saying, okay, let me look at my 353 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 3: actual situation and, you know, move from here in a 354 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:49,390 Speaker 3: way that actually works for my brain. And change what 355 00:17:49,450 --> 00:17:52,490 Speaker 3: you do in a way that works for your unique brain. 356 00:17:53,150 --> 00:17:54,170 Speaker 1: That's what's going to get. 357 00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:57,389 Speaker 3: You where you want to go as opposed to trying 358 00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:59,310 Speaker 3: to be a different person. 359 00:17:59,990 --> 00:18:04,130 Speaker 2: Dana, that'll preach because I'm just thinking of, I mean, 360 00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:07,929 Speaker 2: I don't homeschool anymore, but every fall what would happen 361 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:11,450 Speaker 2: is that that was going to be the year I 362 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:14,650 Speaker 2: got it all together. I was going to become like 363 00:18:14,910 --> 00:18:18,949 Speaker 2: that homeschool, the Pinterest homeschool mom. everything's going to be 364 00:18:19,109 --> 00:18:25,290 Speaker 2: organized and labeled and folders. We're going to have assignments 365 00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:28,020 Speaker 2: and we were going to do things on the hour 366 00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: and we were just going to be a tightly run machine. 367 00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:34,780 Speaker 1: And I'm a creative. 368 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:37,300 Speaker 2: I don't like to do the same thing two days 369 00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: in a row. And so for me to expect us 370 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,140 Speaker 2: to be a tightly run machine was never going to happen. 371 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: But the struggle is real, right? And it wasn't just 372 00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 2: about homeschooling. I mean, like every September I thought, well, 373 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:51,100 Speaker 2: I'm just going to completely get my life together. I 374 00:18:51,619 --> 00:18:54,100 Speaker 2: am going to eat all the right ways and exercise 375 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: all the right ways and keep my house organized and 376 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: clean in all the right ways and homeschool. Like I 377 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 2: was just going to be perfect every September. And like 378 00:19:00,619 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: by about this time in October, I was so defeated, 379 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 2: so done. so discouraged and just kind of gave up, right? 380 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: Like whatever, I guess we're just going to be the 381 00:19:10,780 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: same as we were last year, you know, and then 382 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: January come around and be like, wait, maybe I'll do 383 00:19:15,530 --> 00:19:19,130 Speaker 2: it as a January New Year's resolution and the same thing. Right. 384 00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:21,050 Speaker 2: So I, oh, what you're saying is so good. I 385 00:19:21,070 --> 00:19:21,770 Speaker 2: think it's so helpful. 386 00:19:22,609 --> 00:19:26,710 Speaker 1: Well, and those, the first three steps are all decision-free. 387 00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:28,510 Speaker 2: Okay. 388 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:31,250 Speaker 1: And that's, that is so key. 389 00:19:31,390 --> 00:19:37,130 Speaker 3: What can I do without making this big decision? What 390 00:19:37,150 --> 00:19:40,669 Speaker 3: can I do to go ahead and get moving without 391 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:45,810 Speaker 3: figuring a bunch of stuff out? And instead, when I 392 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:48,550 Speaker 3: start looking for that, I can find things that I 393 00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:51,429 Speaker 3: can go ahead and do with making a decision that 394 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: are then going to make me able to, because there 395 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 3: are going to be hard decisions to make along the way. 396 00:19:56,859 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: And I will be ready for that and able and 397 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,780 Speaker 3: already have some momentum because of the decision-free stuff that 398 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:03,580 Speaker 3: I've done in the beginning. 399 00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. Okay. So when 400 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: you were on before, We talked about cleaning out closets. 401 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,460 Speaker 2: And I think actually maybe the guise of that episode 402 00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:16,770 Speaker 2: was like, why is it so hard to clean out 403 00:20:17,530 --> 00:20:19,970 Speaker 2: things that don't fit us anymore from our closet, right? 404 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:23,090 Speaker 2: Because I think especially, oh goodness, if you've got any 405 00:20:23,150 --> 00:20:26,070 Speaker 2: sort of body issues going on, like you hold on 406 00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:32,149 Speaker 2: to that size whatever pair of jeans or dress from 10, 20, 407 00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:36,450 Speaker 2: 30 years ago, it's still in there because maybe someday 408 00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: it'll fit again. And it's really hard to get rid 409 00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:43,700 Speaker 2: of some of that stuff. And you and I had 410 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: a great conversation around that. And you just stunned me 411 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,790 Speaker 2: because I think I said, why? Do you remember what 412 00:20:50,810 --> 00:20:53,570 Speaker 2: you said? Do you remember what you said the why was? 413 00:20:54,490 --> 00:20:55,790 Speaker 2: You said it was grief. 414 00:20:57,670 --> 00:20:59,830 Speaker 1: And I was like, what? 415 00:21:00,010 --> 00:21:02,270 Speaker 2: And I wrote about that in the 40, you're quoted 416 00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:03,790 Speaker 2: in my 40 day body image workbook. 417 00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:05,020 Speaker 1: That means a lot, yeah. 418 00:21:05,260 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 2: But the conversation we had was, was really about how 419 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:14,290 Speaker 2: it's difficult to clean out our closets because we haven't, 420 00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:18,090 Speaker 2: and I'm, I'm like messing up your words because you 421 00:21:18,109 --> 00:21:20,530 Speaker 2: said it so eloquently. So I will link to that 422 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:23,830 Speaker 2: episode so people can go and listen. Cause it was 423 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,710 Speaker 2: a great interview. It did really well on YouTube. Like 424 00:21:25,930 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 2: people were really into that conversation. Um, but, But you 425 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: talked about how like you can't just go in. I mean, 426 00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:36,780 Speaker 2: in this conversation, I don't remember if that predated Marie 427 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,060 Speaker 2: Kondo or not. If like everyone is hugging stuff to 428 00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:41,460 Speaker 2: see what they should get rid of at that point 429 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,100 Speaker 2: or if that was before that happened. But you talked 430 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:49,070 Speaker 2: about how like you, if you haven't processed like that 431 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:53,510 Speaker 2: you're in a new season of life, it's really difficult 432 00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:56,950 Speaker 2: to get rid of those things from the previous seasons. 433 00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:02,390 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, I, I'm really, that's, that's the thing. 434 00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:05,610 Speaker 3: So I have my five-step no mess decluttering process, which 435 00:22:05,670 --> 00:22:07,889 Speaker 3: is what my anti-procrastination process is based on. 436 00:22:07,930 --> 00:22:08,090 Speaker 2: Right. 437 00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: And those first three steps, I think they're all of 438 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: that makes it so hard. 439 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,100 Speaker 1: Right. You're like, what do these clothes represent? 440 00:22:19,619 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: Right. 441 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: Like, do they represent a time. 442 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,230 Speaker 3: Where either I thought it was never going to go back, 443 00:22:26,609 --> 00:22:29,570 Speaker 3: you know, and then maybe I've, regained some of the 444 00:22:29,609 --> 00:22:32,490 Speaker 3: weight or maybe, you know, all these different things can 445 00:22:32,550 --> 00:22:37,429 Speaker 3: be in that. And my five-step no-mess decluttering process, the 446 00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:42,189 Speaker 3: reason why it works is that I go ahead and 447 00:22:42,270 --> 00:22:44,670 Speaker 3: start and I'm like, that is a lot. 448 00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:47,710 Speaker 1: So is there anything else I can do? 449 00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:48,490 Speaker 2: Right? 450 00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:50,490 Speaker 3: Like, is there anything else I can do when I 451 00:22:50,510 --> 00:22:53,190 Speaker 3: go in? I'm not going to start with those super 452 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:57,770 Speaker 3: difficult decisions. Because what I find, yes, what I find 453 00:22:57,810 --> 00:23:04,070 Speaker 3: when I teach decluttering is that people will say, you know, like, 454 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:06,950 Speaker 3: I mean, I'll speak at whatever and I'll talk about 455 00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:09,210 Speaker 3: decluttering and people are like, oh yeah, like I'm inspired 456 00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:13,090 Speaker 3: to declutter. And their brain immediately goes to the hardest 457 00:23:13,910 --> 00:23:17,890 Speaker 3: item in their home. The very, you know, for teachers, it's, 458 00:23:18,369 --> 00:23:19,950 Speaker 3: I used to teach third grade and I just got 459 00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:21,629 Speaker 3: moved to sixth grade. And what if I go back 460 00:23:21,670 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 3: to third grade? Should I keep all of that stuff 461 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,369 Speaker 3: or not? You know, young moms are saying like, I'm 462 00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:28,689 Speaker 3: not sure if I'm going to have more kids. What 463 00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:30,250 Speaker 3: do I do about, do I get rid of these 464 00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:33,060 Speaker 3: things or not? My number one answer is don't start 465 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 3: with that. Like whatever the hardest thing is, don't start 466 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 3: with that because our brains fixate on that. And then 467 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,140 Speaker 3: there are all these other things that are not emotional 468 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 3: that we could get rid of. So let's say you're 469 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,570 Speaker 3: going into your closet. My first step is to look 470 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:51,550 Speaker 3: for trash. And it is not a matter of you saying, 471 00:23:52,260 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: These are things that I really wish I could keep, 472 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,340 Speaker 3: but I probably should just say that they're trash. That's 473 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:02,419 Speaker 3: not what we're saying. We're looking for obvious trash. Is 474 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,500 Speaker 3: there anything in here that you're like, oh yeah, that 475 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,340 Speaker 3: shirt is ripped. 476 00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:08,419 Speaker 1: It can go. Oh yes. 477 00:24:08,550 --> 00:24:11,070 Speaker 3: This thing has a huge stain on it that I 478 00:24:11,109 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: was hoping was going to magically go away while it 479 00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 3: hung in my closet. 480 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,860 Speaker 2: Right. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's done that. 481 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: We think this. 482 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: And so it's, it's like, okay, I'm just going to 483 00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:24,660 Speaker 3: go and look for any, is there any obvious trash? 484 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,890 Speaker 1: What that does is it gets me moving. It gets 485 00:24:27,950 --> 00:24:28,830 Speaker 1: me started. 486 00:24:29,570 --> 00:24:31,970 Speaker 3: And I'm not using emotional energy because if anything makes 487 00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:33,750 Speaker 3: me go, huh, I don't know, then that's not what 488 00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:34,409 Speaker 3: I'm talking about here. 489 00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:36,250 Speaker 1: And I can skip it. I was not doing that 490 00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:36,550 Speaker 1: right now. 491 00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:40,380 Speaker 3: Okay. And then the next step in the process is, is, 492 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 3: you know, the easy stuff. Is there anything that goes 493 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,860 Speaker 3: somewhere other than here that I already know where it goes? 494 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: Okay. 495 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: Because things drift into our closets, right? Yeah. 496 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 3: They just, they just end up there and we, you know, 497 00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 3: but we're not going to have those moments of what 498 00:24:55,180 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: is wrong with me? 499 00:24:56,050 --> 00:24:59,730 Speaker 1: Why is there a can of spinach in my closet? 500 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:03,750 Speaker 3: You know, like, I mean, it doesn't matter, you know, 501 00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:05,790 Speaker 3: where the can of spinach goes, which, you know, check 502 00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:06,570 Speaker 3: the date and make. 503 00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:07,470 Speaker 1: Sure how long it's been in there. 504 00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:10,740 Speaker 3: But, you know, you take that back to, the space 505 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: where you already know where it goes. 506 00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm doing things to get me moving. 507 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:16,700 Speaker 1: But also every. 508 00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:20,300 Speaker 3: Time I come back, that closet has a little bit 509 00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 3: less in it because I've gotten rid of trash and 510 00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:24,619 Speaker 3: I've gotten rid of some things that went other places. 511 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,260 Speaker 3: And so it's gone from overwhelming and me thinking that 512 00:25:28,859 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 3: this is this tackling the closet is also dealing with the, 513 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:34,300 Speaker 3: the body issues that I've had or this, you know. 514 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,060 Speaker 1: What I mean? Like, Oh my goodness, this is a 515 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: big moment. Well, it's a little bit less. 516 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: Hmm. 517 00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:41,550 Speaker 1: And a little bit less. And every time I come back, I'm. 518 00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:45,070 Speaker 3: Like, okay, well, it's not as quite as difficult and 519 00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:47,169 Speaker 3: big as I thought it was. And so then I 520 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:48,610 Speaker 3: go and I say, is there anything in here that's 521 00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:51,070 Speaker 3: an obvious donation? And sometimes people will say to me, 522 00:25:51,609 --> 00:25:54,170 Speaker 3: I really struggle with the obvious donations. And I say, 523 00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:56,970 Speaker 3: you can't struggle with obvious donations. 524 00:25:58,630 --> 00:26:00,410 Speaker 1: Because if you're struggling, they're not obvious. 525 00:26:00,430 --> 00:26:01,109 Speaker 2: They're not obvious. 526 00:26:02,010 --> 00:26:04,540 Speaker 3: And so that means that's not what we're doing here. 527 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,540 Speaker 3: We'll get to those later in the process. But if 528 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:09,740 Speaker 3: you find yourself struggling, then you're like, oh, okay. 529 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,620 Speaker 1: Well, then I need to skip this item. So you 530 00:26:12,660 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: move along and you, is there anything? Because when we 531 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: give ourself permission to say, is there anything in here 532 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,260 Speaker 1: that can just go straight in the donate box? 533 00:26:19,940 --> 00:26:22,100 Speaker 3: Even if we only get rid of five things, that's 534 00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:24,780 Speaker 3: a little bit less. It's a little bit less overwhelming. 535 00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:31,300 Speaker 3: And so I think that wanting to skip ahead to 536 00:26:31,340 --> 00:26:36,220 Speaker 3: the really hard stuff is so often what keeps us 537 00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:41,020 Speaker 3: from doing anything at all. We're like, there are going 538 00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:44,580 Speaker 3: to be hard things. But once I get rid of 539 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,620 Speaker 3: these other things, I'm looking at these hard things from 540 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 3: a position of success, not from a position of being 541 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: stuck like I used to be, but from a position of, no, 542 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,340 Speaker 3: I have made legitimate progress and I'm going to count 543 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 3: progress as success. 544 00:26:59,260 --> 00:27:03,340 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay. So can you tell me, 545 00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 2: I need a diagnosis from you, Dr. Dana. 546 00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: Oh boy. 547 00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:09,220 Speaker 1: Not a mental health professional. 548 00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:13,419 Speaker 2: Why must I hold on to a good box or 549 00:27:13,460 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: a good bag? What is my problem? 550 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,220 Speaker 1: So I don't ask why. I just know it's a fact, right? 551 00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:21,060 Speaker 1: Like it's a fact. 552 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,180 Speaker 3: And part of it is because you're a highly creative person. 553 00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,730 Speaker 3: Like I look at your background and it is beautiful 554 00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:26,050 Speaker 3: and it is fun. 555 00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:28,540 Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. And it is, no, it's, 556 00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:29,820 Speaker 1: I love it, right? 557 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 3: Like you, you have the color, you know, color coordinated 558 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,870 Speaker 3: books and all that. The reality is that a really 559 00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:40,210 Speaker 3: good box is a really good box and it's incredibly useful, 560 00:27:40,770 --> 00:27:43,290 Speaker 3: which is the reason I never ask myself, is this 561 00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 3: useful when I declutter? Because- I can come up with 562 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,850 Speaker 3: a use for things that nobody else would see. 563 00:27:50,869 --> 00:27:52,590 Speaker 1: That's so good. 564 00:27:53,109 --> 00:27:53,290 Speaker 2: Right. 565 00:27:53,369 --> 00:27:56,270 Speaker 3: And so if I, here's what I've realized probably in 566 00:27:56,290 --> 00:27:59,030 Speaker 3: the last couple of years, I've realized that a big 567 00:27:59,390 --> 00:28:01,810 Speaker 3: problem for me when I would try to declutter and 568 00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:07,910 Speaker 3: couldn't do it was that I thought that the, the 569 00:28:08,210 --> 00:28:11,950 Speaker 3: only way to get rid of something was to decide 570 00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:16,740 Speaker 3: that it wasn't good. Hmm. was to decide that I 571 00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 3: didn't want it and that I, I, you know, and, 572 00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 3: and Because that's what a lot of times when people 573 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 3: are having these decluttering conversations, they're having an argument over 574 00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: whether something is good or not. 575 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: Right. Well, does it bring me joy? That was the 576 00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:35,899 Speaker 2: condo method and that didn't work for me. Right. 577 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,060 Speaker 1: Because I am like. 578 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,239 Speaker 3: Well, everything can be useful. Everything, you know, and so I'm, 579 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,180 Speaker 3: I'm having the wrong conversation there. So I had to 580 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 3: take all of that out for me. And instead I say, 581 00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:49,900 Speaker 3: it's a really good box. 582 00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 2: Great. 583 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 3: Whatever. 584 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,260 Speaker 1: And I say, if I was looking. 585 00:28:53,180 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 3: For a really good box, where would I look for 586 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: it first? So I'm not saying, do I need a 587 00:28:58,580 --> 00:29:01,940 Speaker 3: really good box? That's not the issue. The issue is 588 00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:03,380 Speaker 3: if I was looking for a really good box, where 589 00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:07,590 Speaker 3: would I look for it first? And then I come 590 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,370 Speaker 3: up with my answer, which is an instinct. It's not a, 591 00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:12,150 Speaker 3: I think I should look for it here. No, it's 592 00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:14,550 Speaker 3: like literally if I was like, I need a good 593 00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:17,030 Speaker 3: box and I know I've got a good box somewhere. 594 00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:19,050 Speaker 3: Where's the first place in my house where I would 595 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:20,969 Speaker 3: go to look for it? Even if I assume that 596 00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:22,870 Speaker 3: I'm going to be tearing my house apart for the 597 00:29:22,910 --> 00:29:24,750 Speaker 3: next five hours looking for this box that I know 598 00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:27,170 Speaker 3: I have, right? So I'm like, where's the first place 599 00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:31,790 Speaker 3: where I would look? I go to that spot and 600 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:35,110 Speaker 3: I evaluate, is there any room for this box in here? 601 00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:37,310 Speaker 3: If there's room for it there, then it can stay. 602 00:29:37,630 --> 00:29:39,970 Speaker 1: Great. Because now it has a home. It's not clutter anymore. 603 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: But if I get to that space. 604 00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:49,170 Speaker 3: And there's no room for it, either because there's other 605 00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:51,170 Speaker 3: stuff in that space or because I've been putting really 606 00:29:51,210 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 3: good boxes there for the last 10 years. Then I say, well, 607 00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 3: there's no room for it. So what am I willing 608 00:29:58,460 --> 00:30:01,170 Speaker 3: to get rid of in order to keep this really 609 00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:05,010 Speaker 3: good box? And then that's when I go, okay, well, 610 00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:06,810 Speaker 3: this is a good box, but it's not as good 611 00:30:06,850 --> 00:30:08,390 Speaker 3: as this one. And so that's going to leave my 612 00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: house and it gives this item a spot. And that 613 00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:13,140 Speaker 3: one goes in the trash or the recycling. 614 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: Okay. 615 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 3: And so it's a process way as opposed to a 616 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,030 Speaker 3: rip it out of my hands way. Because- I used 617 00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:23,930 Speaker 3: to think that the only way to do this was 618 00:30:23,970 --> 00:30:25,270 Speaker 3: to rip it out of my hands. Well, if you 619 00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:26,590 Speaker 3: tell me that you're going to rip it out of 620 00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:27,950 Speaker 3: my hands, I'm just going to hold on tighter. 621 00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:28,490 Speaker 2: Right. 622 00:30:28,510 --> 00:30:31,979 Speaker 1: But instead it's like, I absolutely, I can keep anything. 623 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:35,180 Speaker 3: I can keep a really good box, but it has 624 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: to have a real home. Otherwise my house gets out 625 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:38,260 Speaker 3: of control. 626 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,910 Speaker 2: So good. Yeah. So good. I think my husband will 627 00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:48,110 Speaker 2: become your biggest fan. thank you notes from him. My 628 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,750 Speaker 2: really good box collection had to move into the garage 629 00:30:50,770 --> 00:30:53,150 Speaker 2: a couple months ago because it got too big. 630 00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:56,910 Speaker 3: Well, and every space in your house is a limit. 631 00:30:57,030 --> 00:30:59,110 Speaker 3: So it's like, where's the place where I would look 632 00:30:59,150 --> 00:31:04,130 Speaker 3: for it that I actually can devote to good boxes 633 00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:05,430 Speaker 3: because I don't need. 634 00:31:06,930 --> 00:31:08,870 Speaker 3: Every space in your house is a limit. Every space 635 00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:11,770 Speaker 3: in your house is a contain-er. It's meant to serve 636 00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:12,250 Speaker 3: as a limit. 637 00:31:12,270 --> 00:31:18,350 Speaker 1: It's meant to contain. And so if this this cabinet. 638 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:21,830 Speaker 3: Where I would look for really good boxes, I can't 639 00:31:22,030 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: keep really good boxes at the expense of my kids 640 00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: having the school supplies that they actually need. 641 00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? 642 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,790 Speaker 3: I look at it and so I'm not saying, say 643 00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:37,090 Speaker 3: that it's a bad box, Dana. 644 00:31:37,170 --> 00:31:41,370 Speaker 1: I'm saying this is a great box. I do love 645 00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:42,370 Speaker 1: really good boxes. 646 00:31:44,150 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 3: But If it's a choice between a good box that 647 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,900 Speaker 3: I might use one day and my kids having what 648 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,140 Speaker 3: they need for school, I'm going to choose the stuff 649 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 3: that they need for school. And then I'm able to 650 00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:00,460 Speaker 3: let go of the boxes and go, you are a 651 00:32:00,540 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 3: great box, but I don't have the room. I don't 652 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:04,860 Speaker 3: have the space. 653 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,820 Speaker 1: I would absolutely keep this if I could, but I can't. 654 00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 3: I can keep anything, but I can't keep everything and 655 00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:12,540 Speaker 3: my space be under control. 656 00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:17,030 Speaker 2: Oh, that's so good, Dana. So good. Someone I know 657 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:18,980 Speaker 2: got a lot out of that because someone out there 658 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,660 Speaker 2: has to love a good box just like me. 659 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,500 Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, it's a very, like that's one of 660 00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:27,700 Speaker 3: the most common questions I get. Same thing with good jars, 661 00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 3: same thing with good whatever, like all these things that 662 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,620 Speaker 3: could be repurposed. I can absolutely keep those, but they 663 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,630 Speaker 3: have to have a real home and I have to 664 00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:39,229 Speaker 3: acknowledge the limits of that space. And then that way, 665 00:32:39,370 --> 00:32:43,130 Speaker 3: every time I find a good box, it's like, is 666 00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: it a good box or is it a better box 667 00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 3: than the ones that are already in there? 668 00:32:47,180 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: Like that becomes the actual question. 669 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,219 Speaker 2: That's so good. Well, Dana, tell everyone where they can 670 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,460 Speaker 2: get your new book, which I'm sure is all the 671 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 2: places books are sold, but just where to connect with 672 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,220 Speaker 2: you and find all your things. 673 00:32:59,940 --> 00:33:06,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you can go to danakwhite.com. Danakwhite.com slash procrastinate 674 00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:09,140 Speaker 1: is where you're going to find specifically information about this book. 675 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,070 Speaker 1: But yeah, do you, anywhere books are sold, you just 676 00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: have to put the K in there. 677 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,500 Speaker 2: Otherwise, you're the UFC guy. 678 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,260 Speaker 1: I'm not the UFC guy. 679 00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: And I'm such a disappointment if you think that you're 680 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:22,370 Speaker 3: getting the UFC guy. 681 00:33:22,420 --> 00:33:24,350 Speaker 1: But yeah. 682 00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:27,890 Speaker 3: So if you search Dana K. White, wherever books are sold, 683 00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:30,490 Speaker 3: you will find it. So it's in all the audiobook 684 00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:33,710 Speaker 3: and Kindle and all the e-books and everything. 685 00:33:34,090 --> 00:33:36,420 Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, Dana, thank you so much for being on 686 00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:38,580 Speaker 2: the show today. I think you've encouraged and helped a 687 00:33:38,620 --> 00:33:38,970 Speaker 2: lot of us. 688 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: This was really fun. You're always so fun to be around. 689 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:45,070 Speaker 2: And thank you for watching or listening today. I hope 690 00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:48,410 Speaker 2: something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye-bye. 691 00:33:49,970 --> 00:33:51,540 Speaker 2: The Compare To Podcast is proud to be part of 692 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,780 Speaker 2: the Life Audio Podcast Network. For more great Christian podcasts, 693 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:55,780 Speaker 2: go to lifeaudio.com.