1
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,920
Speaker 1: America needs this voice.

2
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 2: The times are crazy, in a time of confusion, division

3
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 2: and lies. We need a brave voice of reason, understanding

4
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: and truth.

5
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 3: This is the Dinesh de Suzan Podcast.

6
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 4: Coming up, guys, a special episode of the podcast. We're

7
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 4: going to be talking biblical archaeology with one of the

8
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 4: renowned and in the field practicing archaeologists. I'm referring to

9
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,840
Speaker 4: the man next to me, Scott Strippling. He's in studio today,

10
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,120
Speaker 4: which is is great. He's director of Excavations for the

11
00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 4: Associates for Biblical Research based in Ancient Shilo in Israel.

12
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,600
Speaker 4: He's also Provost and director of the Archaeology Institute at

13
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 4: the Bible Seminary in Katiexis. He serves as president of

14
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 4: the Board of Directors of the Near East Archaeological Society.

15
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: He's got innumerable.

16
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 4: Credits which I won't go into, but I will tell

17
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 4: you can follow him on x at Stripling Underscore Scott,

18
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 4: the website very simple, Scott with two TI Scott Stripling

19
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,119
Speaker 4: dot Net.

20
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 5: Scott. Welcome.

21
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 4: Great to have you in studio and I'm really looking

22
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,960
Speaker 4: forward to this conversation. As I mentioned, we have a

23
00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 4: kind of basic introduction to biblical archaeology in my latest

24
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 4: film and The Dragon's Prophecy. But I want to get

25
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,920
Speaker 4: to the fundamentals of what this field is and what

26
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 4: it does. And so let's begin really in a very

27
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 4: basic way by me asking you what is archaeology.

28
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 3: Well, first, thanks for having me on the program. I've

29
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 3: been looking forward to meeting you. I'm in South Houston,

30
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 3: you're North Houston, almost like two different worlds, so glad

31
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 3: we could connect. Archaeology is a subscience of anthropology. Anthropology

32
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 3: is the study of human beings and human behavior. Archaeology

33
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,960
Speaker 3: studies human remains, and so in that sense we are

34
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 3: limited to the last few thousand years where we have

35
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 3: stratified human remains, and we study those and we try

36
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,959
Speaker 3: to apply the hard sciences to archaeology, which is a

37
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 3: soft science in itself. We take any texts. In our case,

38
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,240
Speaker 3: I excavate in the area of Istralan Jordan, what we

39
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 3: call the Southern Levant, any texts that pertain to that,

40
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,679
Speaker 3: and normally the Bible is a go to source for me.

41
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 3: We also study Egyptian literature, Eugarytic literature, anything that can

42
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 3: bear to wait on the matter so that we can

43
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,960
Speaker 3: formulate research questions and inform ourselves of how and where

44
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 3: and methodologically how we're going to approach this site. And

45
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,080
Speaker 3: then we go from the top down, lowering the matrix

46
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 3: as we go, noting any changes in color and texture.

47
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 3: Features then begin to emerge. And of course, with all

48
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 3: of our new technologies, we're documenting as we go. We're

49
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,120
Speaker 3: flying drones, we're creating photogrammatic images and so forth, taking

50
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 3: soil samples, doing radiocarbon testing, all these things that help

51
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 3: us understand what life was like in Biblical times.

52
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 4: You made a reference to texts, and when sometimes when

53
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 4: people speak of biblical archaeology, you can get the idea that,

54
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 4: wait a minute, we're trying to combine somehow theology and

55
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 4: revelation on the one hand, with science on the other.

56
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 4: How can you possibly do that? But you made you

57
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 4: gave me the hint of an answer. You're saying, Look,

58
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:54,160
Speaker 4: whether it is Homeric grease or whether it is the

59
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 4: proclamations of the pharaohs, these are texts, and even if

60
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 4: their goal is theological or royal boasting or whatever, they

61
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 4: contain historical information. And what you're saying is that we

62
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 4: can go. You can go archaeologists can go dig in

63
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:19,440
Speaker 4: the ground and look for material artifacts and objects that

64
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 4: throw light on these texts. Was that a good way

65
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 4: to think about Biblical archeology.

66
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's perfect. The term out I could use is illuminate.

67
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 3: Archaeology doesn't change the ancient text. It says what it says,

68
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 3: and it's a viewpoint. In the case of the Bible

69
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 3: as a Christian, in my view is that it's an

70
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 3: inspired text, but it's only giving us that narrow view.

71
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 3: Archaeology is going to then illuminate it. It's going to

72
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 3: set it into a context so that we can understand

73
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 3: it here and now the way that they did then

74
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 3: and there.

75
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 4: I mean, let's take an example of this to help

76
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 4: people understand what we mean. So there is a very

77
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 4: important archaeological stone sometimes called a stelli, called the Moabite

78
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:13,239
Speaker 4: stone or the Mesha stelli, and this is describing the

79
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 4: clashes between ancient Israel and the Moabites, which is described

80
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 4: in the Bible, but in the Bible it's from the

81
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 4: Israelites side. What's interesting about the Moabite stone is it

82
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 4: reflects the opinions of the King of Moab, and you

83
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 4: basically get the other side of the conflict, and so

84
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 4: isn't this a good illustration of what you're saying? The

85
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 4: Moabite stone is well, on the one hand, it supports

86
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,720
Speaker 4: what the Bible is saying, but on the other hand,

87
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 4: it gives you new information. It's almost like we now

88
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,600
Speaker 4: get to hear what the other guys were saying and

89
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,479
Speaker 4: how they viewed the conflict, and as a result, you

90
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 4: maybe get a fuller picture.

91
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 3: Right, we look to these sources that are extra biblical

92
00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,839
Speaker 3: for synchronisms. Synchronism is where the archae logical data in

93
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 3: the Biblical text converge. And as an archaeologist, when I

94
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 3: can find like three data points to triangulate those things,

95
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 3: then we can really be certain in what our chronology is,

96
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 3: what our geography is, and then later deal with issues

97
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 3: of interpretation and meaning and so forth.

98
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 1: But first we got to get it in the right time,

99
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:20,560
Speaker 1: in the right place.

100
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 4: Interesting, Now, let's talk a little bit about how this

101
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 4: discipline of biblical archaeology developed, as I understand it developed

102
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:33,600
Speaker 4: in sort of three phases.

103
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 5: And tell me if you if.

104
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 4: You think my twenty thousand foot view here is correct.

105
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 4: All of this kind of got going kind of in

106
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 4: the mid to late nineteenth century. You had some early discoveries.

107
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 4: People were, you know, getting to the ancient Babylonian kingdoms

108
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 4: and ancient Nineveh and discovering old ruins of palaces, and

109
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,279
Speaker 4: so you began to get some really good information starting

110
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 4: in the late nineties century. But things really pick up

111
00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 4: in the twentieth century, and especially after the founding of

112
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 4: the state of Israel, because you now have access to

113
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 4: all this territory that was actually previously under a lot

114
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 4: of it under either British, the British Mandate, or in

115
00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 4: some cases the Ottoman Empire, and so archaeology kind of

116
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 4: really gets going in the twentieth century.

117
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 5: And then there's been a kind of.

118
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 4: Explosion of discoveries in the last quarter century, a lot

119
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 4: of it in Israel, of course, but not just Israel, Jordan,

120
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,680
Speaker 4: Syria and elsewhere. So we can speak of these sort

121
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 4: of three waves of archaeology, all associated with prominent figures

122
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 4: and also different types of schools of thought. Was that

123
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 4: a relative it's a crude But is that a good overview?

124
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: It sounds like you've read my.

125
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 5: Book, actually I have.

126
00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a pretty good overview.

127
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 3: Yes, In those early days in the nineteenth century, it

128
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 3: was primitive by our standards, but really guys like Flinders Petrie,

129
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 3: who was a genius later W. F. Albright, who we

130
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 3: call the founders of biblic archaeology. They went in, they

131
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 3: mastered the Biblical languages, which is important.

132
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 1: Yep.

133
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 3: They developed expertise and things like ceramic typology, so which

134
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 3: is what my expertise is. Also, I'm a ceramic typologist.

135
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 3: That means that I can look at a broken piece

136
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 3: of pottery and I can tell you the time period

137
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 3: that is associated with that. So as we go deeper

138
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 3: in an archaeological tale, that pottery enables us to date

139
00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 3: the sequences.

140
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 4: Okay me, Paul is here because this is a very

141
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 4: important idea. So you used two expressions. One is an

142
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 4: archaeological tell, which is a kind of hill or mound,

143
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 4: And the other thing you said was you recognize pottery

144
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,040
Speaker 4: types and you can use those. Talk about this whole

145
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,440
Speaker 4: notion of a tell and in a term you haven't

146
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,520
Speaker 4: used yet. But I'd like you to explain stratigraphy, the

147
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 4: idea of how you dig down into these tells and

148
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,840
Speaker 4: what is the relevance of pottery to establishing a date?

149
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, it was Splendor's Petrie was the first to

150
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,400
Speaker 3: recognize that these mounds in the Biblical lands, many of them,

151
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 3: were not natural hills, but they were stratified remains of

152
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,960
Speaker 3: human civilization. And so as they begin to then excavate

153
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 3: through them, they recognized that the same sequence of pottery

154
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 3: that we see here like Titmarsim.

155
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,079
Speaker 1: Or wherever, we also find that this other side.

156
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 3: And so over time they were able to begin a

157
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 3: rudimentary ceramic typology through the stratigraphy. The deeper they went,

158
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,280
Speaker 3: the older the remains became, even to the very bottom

159
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 3: where you were pre pottery neolithics. So you have civilizations

160
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 3: that didn't even have pottery yet developed and in those

161
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 3: earliest layers.

162
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 4: And you're saying that in the in that case, the

163
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,560
Speaker 4: absence of pottery is itself illuminating because it tells you, hey,

164
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 4: we may have And isn't it also true that when

165
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 4: you have these mounds, because civilizations built on top of

166
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,680
Speaker 4: each other, right, And I think what we're saying here

167
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 4: is that, you know, the the Persians come in, they

168
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 4: pulverize the people who were there, but they don't they

169
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 4: don't clear the earth. They just built on top. And

170
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,080
Speaker 4: then the Romans come in and they do the same thing.

171
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,839
Speaker 4: So the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans. So I think

172
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 4: what you're saying is as you dig deeper, you're actually

173
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 4: going back in time.

174
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 3: That's right, You're you're time traveling and they're they're talking.

175
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,480
Speaker 3: If you know that material culture, it's speaking to you.

176
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,080
Speaker 3: If you can understand it. Think about this, why would

177
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 3: you build a site at a certain place? Number One

178
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,239
Speaker 3: is water? Right, there was a water source of antiquity,

179
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 3: either perennial or sees an old water source. Now here's

180
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 3: a bombshell for your audience. Climate change has been around since.

181
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:07,560
Speaker 1: The beginning of time.

182
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,559
Speaker 5: Wait, surely you just.

183
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 3: And the earth gets hotter and drier and cooler and

184
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,680
Speaker 3: wetter cyclically. Normally it's about every four hundred years. And

185
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,719
Speaker 3: I wish in this whole climate change debate they'd ask

186
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 3: an archaeologists, we could have actually been very helpful to them.

187
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,000
Speaker 3: Sites that are established that did not have their own

188
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,719
Speaker 3: spring once the climate change. That's what brings about the

189
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,960
Speaker 3: end of the Early Bronze Age, That's what brings about

190
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 3: the end of the Middle Bronze Age. That's what brings

191
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,559
Speaker 3: about the end of the Late Bronze age. It's always

192
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,200
Speaker 3: climate change is a factor, so they have a water

193
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 3: source or it's a seasonal one. Well, once the weather changes.

194
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:47,679
Speaker 3: Let's stay here in Houston.

195
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 1: Where we are.

196
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 3: If the weather were to shift here, we'd be in

197
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,520
Speaker 3: big trouble because we don't have natural water sources were

198
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 3: dependent upon rain. They would abandon these ancient sites that

199
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 3: they have built. Than over time those sites begin to crumble.

200
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 3: They're also on a seismic zone. Things are falling apart,

201
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,200
Speaker 3: you get a sand in effect. People move, so they

202
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 3: were turned to similar nomadic ways of life. When the

203
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,839
Speaker 3: climate changes again and people come back to the area

204
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 3: or a conquer comes in, as you alluded to, then

205
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 3: they can still see there's building material lying around. They

206
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 3: scavenge what they can, They level everything out, and they

207
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 3: build on top of it.

208
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 5: Since you mentioned the Bronze Age, the Middle Bronze Age.

209
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 4: It's very helpful to lay out the sort of phases

210
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 4: of human civilization. It seems like the way archaeologists classify things.

211
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 5: Again, speaking broadly.

212
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,040
Speaker 4: There's the kind of what people crudely speak of the

213
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 4: Stone Age with the Neolithic period, where as I understand it,

214
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,440
Speaker 4: it's not that they weren't metals. There were some metals,

215
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 4: but this is the most ancient time. And then you

216
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 4: have the Bronze Age, which is divided into sort of

217
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 4: late Middle Bronze and sort of I guess early Bronze,

218
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,080
Speaker 4: so maybe it's the opposite. Maybe it's early Middle and

219
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 4: late right. And then you have the Iron Age. Is

220
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 4: that the next one?

221
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:11,000
Speaker 1: Right?

222
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,520
Speaker 4: And then after that you're basically now in the fifth

223
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 4: or fourth centuries BC. And now the periods are classified

224
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 4: a little bit more historically, like this is the this

225
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 4: is the Persian period. So this allows you to get

226
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 4: a kind of sweeping overview of the So when does

227
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 4: the Bible? Talking about the Bible, it's a very remarkable

228
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 4: document to me because it contains so many elements. Right,

229
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 4: Some of it is just God declares, Some of it

230
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,560
Speaker 4: is theological interpretation, like this guy was a good king

231
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 4: because he performed all the sacrifices and all the rites,

232
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,280
Speaker 4: and this guy built worship idols, and so he's a

233
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 4: bad king and disobedient to godd And it also contains history,

234
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:10,200
Speaker 4: historical descriptions, sometimes quite detailed descriptions. Do you see the

235
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 4: Bible as this kind of a as being this document

236
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,079
Speaker 4: of mixed genre and of course we also got to

237
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,160
Speaker 4: remember that we're not talking about a single book, the Bible.

238
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 4: The Bible itself is a collection of books written over

239
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 4: quite a long period of time, containing both the Jewish

240
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,080
Speaker 4: or Hebrew scriptures and the Christian scriptures.

241
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: The Bible is a library.

242
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 3: Biblia means library, okay, biblioteca and Spanish is a library.

243
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 3: So it is a library that multiple genres within it,

244
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 3: and so we have to approach it with genre awareness

245
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 3: and ask some basic interpretive questions like it cannot mean

246
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 3: to me here and now what it couldnt have possibly

247
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 3: admit to them been? And there is this cultural or

248
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 3: is this normative? In other words, it's this for all

249
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 3: people in all places at all times, or was it

250
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 3: something that is specifically for a certain place in time.

251
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,359
Speaker 3: Just because someone does something in the Bible doesn't necessarily

252
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 3: mean we're supposed to do it. And it's kind of

253
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 3: a unique book in that sense, in that it shows

254
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 3: the flaws of its protagonists. Also, most holy books don't

255
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 3: do that. You know, they're going to hold people up

256
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 3: as if they're perfect. The Bible doesn't do that. The

257
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 3: benefit for me to nish is that in the process

258
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,760
Speaker 3: of reading and understanding that genre and working through it,

259
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 3: we see real people, real places, and really vents. And

260
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,200
Speaker 3: if people think that the Bible is mythology, well only

261
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 3: in one sense. I mean the Greek word methosis stories.

262
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,000
Speaker 3: So yes, you have narrative literature within the Bible, great

263
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 3: stories within it. But embedded within those narratives we have

264
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 3: ancient history. And this is what I have found over

265
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 3: my many decades of excavations, is that we indeed have

266
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 3: real people, real places, really vents, and not only dozens

267
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 3: but hundreds of synchronisms between the archaeological data and the

268
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 3: biblical text. I've never wanted like the field slanted in

269
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 3: my favor, but I don't want it slanted the other

270
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 3: way either. And there's been to some degree an antibiblical bias,

271
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 3: like the literature from Mesopotamia.

272
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: Or Egypt, that of course is legit.

273
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 4: Oh it's legit, you know, even though it's worth highlighting this.

274
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 4: You know, you can have pharaohs who are known to

275
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 4: be over the top boasters, of course, and then you're right,

276
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 4: and then you've got a panoply of ancient gods, and

277
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 4: nobody goes well, that renders all these ancient texts ridiculous

278
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 4: because all these people believed in all these mythical gods,

279
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 4: and we can't take any of this seriously. No, they

280
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 4: take it with the utmost gravity and seriousness, and when

281
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 4: it comes to the Bible, suddenly they're saying, well, this

282
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 4: text has got to be subjected to a different level

283
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 4: of scrutiny, including things like if you you aren't able

284
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 4: to prove that this happened, it didn't happen. So let's

285
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 4: talk about that for a moment. It's because it's years

286
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,919
Speaker 4: ago when I debated the atheist Christopher Hitchens, not in archaeology,

287
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 4: of which I knew very little.

288
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 5: At that time and still learning.

289
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 4: He made the phrase the absence of evidence is evidence

290
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 4: of absence, and I think he wasn't original with him,

291
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 4: but he thought this was a big winner. But it

292
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 4: is almost known to be a known fallacy in archaeology.

293
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 4: But explain why that is. Why is it wrong to

294
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 4: say that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

295
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 3: Which the exact opposite of that. What we would say

296
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 3: in archaeology is the absence of evidence is not evidence

297
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 3: of absence. So just just because the glove didn't fit

298
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 3: didn't mean you had to acquit.

299
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 5: I see, there's lots.

300
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 1: Of things that could have happen to the evidence in antiquity.

301
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: Let's say the Bible says that a site was burned,

302
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,399
Speaker 3: the Israelites burned Jericho I and.

303
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: Hot sort when the placat all.

304
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 3: Right, Well, fortunately those destruction I excavated the side of eye,

305
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 3: so I know this very well. But we're very fortunate

306
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 3: when those destruction layers do survive, because what if a

307
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,159
Speaker 3: rain comes along right after the battle and the burn

308
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 3: gets washed away. What if somebody comes along and when

309
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,360
Speaker 3: they rebuild, and this is what happens in Jerusalem all

310
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,919
Speaker 3: the time, they dig back down to bed rode, they

311
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 3: build on the pest. So they they're destroying the evidence

312
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: in antiquity. So just because we don't find the evidence

313
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 3: of something in modernity is not evidence that it didn't

314
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 3: happen in antiquity.

315
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 4: Since nineteen seventy one, the year the US got off

316
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 4: the gold standard, inflation is averaged three point nine eight

317
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 4: percent per year. That's the official figure, which the government

318
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 4: manipulates to keep it lower than it should be. But

319
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,439
Speaker 4: even so, it reveals if you start out it with

320
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 4: one dollar in nineteen seventy one, that money keeps dropping

321
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 4: in value in purchasing power. Inact, one dollar in nineteen

322
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 4: seventy one will now buy the value of about twelve cents.

323
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 5: Crazy but true. How does this happen?

324
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 4: It happens because the US government continually prints money. When

325
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 4: more money chases the same amount of goods and services, well,

326
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 4: money goes down in value. And because the money printing

327
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 4: doesn't stop, we know our dollars are going to lose value.

328
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 4: The dollar goes down toward zero, But the government can't

329
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 4: print gold, and gold has been money for thousands of years. Today,

330
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 4: gold is a valuable protection against the ongoing depreciation of

331
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 4: the dollar. Any surprised that an ounce of gold worth

332
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,159
Speaker 4: around forty four dollars and forty cents in nineteen seventy

333
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 4: one is today worth around four thousand dollars. I own

334
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 4: gold as a long term investment. You can too, either

335
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 4: by buying gold to keep in a safe place, or

336
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 4: by converting an old ira or four oh one k

337
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 4: into an ira in gold.

338
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 5: A great way to do this is Gold Co.

339
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 4: They've got the best reputation, the best customer service, and.

340
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 5: The best deals.

341
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 4: That's why w and I buy our gold and precious

342
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 4: medals from gold Co. They're a plus with the Better

343
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 4: Business Bureau.

344
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 5: They have thousands of five star reviews.

345
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 4: Go to dinesh goold dot com request their free twenty

346
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 4: twenty five gold and silver kit. No obligation, just information

347
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 4: and gold Co is offering first time buyers a rebate

348
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,239
Speaker 4: of up to ten percent back in bonus silver or

349
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 4: gold so you can help protect your savings over the

350
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 4: long term. Get some extra gold or silver for doing it.

351
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 4: Get started dinesh Gold dot com, dnesh gold dot com.

352
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 4: Michael Dell will tell you this year has been one

353
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 4: of the hardest in My Pillow history. It's because of

354
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 4: you that they're making it through. They want to thank

355
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 4: you for your continued support by passing on some Christmas

356
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 4: specials to our listeners. Get the Children's Bible Story Pillow

357
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 4: five back for twenty nine ninety eight, My Slippers with

358
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 4: the free bottle of leather protected spray for thirty nine

359
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 4: ninety eight, Blankets comforters duvets for the lowest twenty five

360
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 4: and a blowout sale, and the standard Mypillows for just

361
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 4: fourteen ninety eight. Go to my pillow dot com or

362
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,239
Speaker 4: you can call eight hundred eight seven six zero two

363
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: two seven. That's eight hundred eight seven six zero two

364
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 4: two seven. Use promo code DENSH. Take advantage of these

365
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 4: wholesale prices, including the standard size MyPillow originally forty nine

366
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 4: ninety eight now just fourteen ninety eight. Queen size eighteen

367
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 4: ninety nine, King's only a dollar more. We know my

368
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 4: Pillow products come with a ten year warranty, but My

369
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 4: Pillow has just announced they're extending the sixty day money

370
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 4: back guarantee. That's right, or its placed between now and

371
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 4: December twenty fifth, we'll have the sixty day money back

372
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 4: guarantee extended through March first, twenty twenty six. Again, go

373
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 4: to MyPillow dot com and don't forget to use the

374
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 4: promo code.

375
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 5: It's di n e SHDNESH.

376
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 4: Conversely, let's just take a hot Sore, for example, or Jericho.

377
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 4: If the Bible says that this site was burned, and

378
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 4: let's just say roughly fourteen hundred BC, and you go

379
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 4: to biblical hots or you dig, you find ruins and ash,

380
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 4: you date those remnants, and they date roughly to fourteen

381
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 4: hundred BC.

382
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 3: That is evidence, yes, absolutely, and in fact, you have

383
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 3: that very thing at hots or itself. You do have

384
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 3: a destruction layer that dates to that time period. That's

385
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: an important synchronism. And we begin to then, not deductively,

386
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 3: it's not like one data point proves a point, but

387
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 3: kind of inductively. We're accumulating data, accumulating information, and I

388
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: think at some point a fair minded person has to

389
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 3: look at it and say, it takes more faith to

390
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: believe that this didn't happen than it did happen.

391
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was struck.

392
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 4: You know, reading the there's a kind of introduction to

393
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 4: Biblical archaeology by this guy Georgetown, Eric Klein. I'm sure

394
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 4: you sure you have cross paths, and you know, he

395
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 4: starts off in a fairly dismissive, I think, maybe even

396
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 4: excessively skeptical way, with things like, oh gee, you know,

397
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 4: where's the Tower of Babel and referring particular to some

398
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: of the early books of the Bible. But interestingly, once

399
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 4: he gets to King David, we're no, I'm talking around

400
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 4: one thousand BC. And then he gives you the history

401
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 4: going all the way to Jesus and he makes the

402
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: statement which caught my attention. He goes, basically, in this

403
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: entire one thousand years there has not been a single

404
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 4: significant finding in archaeology that contradicts the Bible. And I

405
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 4: was like, wow, because it's quite true to say we

406
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 4: haven't found this and we haven't found that, and maybe,

407
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 4: quite honestly, we're looking in the wrong place. But it

408
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 4: would be interesting to know if you found something which

409
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: goes head on against the Bible, I mean, by itself.

410
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 4: It wouldn't prove the Bible is wrong because there could

411
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: be other things going on, but you'd have to contend

412
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 4: with that, right. But Clein seems to concede that over

413
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 4: this vast amount of time, with thousands of archaeologists working

414
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 4: in lots of areas, it's pretty telling that you don't.

415
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 4: I mean, you sometimes have a mismatch where people are

416
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 4: arguing and.

417
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 5: You know this much better than I do.

418
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 4: They argue about like when did Joshua cross over to

419
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: the Promised Land? They argue about the dates of the exodus.

420
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 4: So we're not talking about degrees of argument about when

421
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 4: something happened, when did Abraham die, for example. We're talking

422
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: about something where there is an event and as it

423
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 4: turns out, that event.

424
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: Is proven false.

425
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 4: Do you agree with client's overview here?

426
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely?

427
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 3: But let me point out that it was only a

428
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 3: few years ago that people with then that ilk of

429
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 3: thought we're arguing that there was not proof of the

430
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: Dividic dynasty.

431
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: We have won this battle.

432
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: We engaged in the arena of ideas, and we have

433
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: now established this where there's a broad consensus even among

434
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 3: secular archaeologists, that David was a real historical figure, that

435
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: he had a real kingdom. So i'll give you the

436
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: brief version of this prior to nineteen ninety three, when

437
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: the Tel dan Stella or the House of David inscription

438
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: was found at Tell Dana in northern Israel. Go back

439
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 3: and look at the literature. The battles that we were fighting.

440
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 3: It was that David didn't exist. He was a fighting

441
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 3: giants and killing.

442
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 4: Lions legendary, and he was a musician like Orpheus and

443
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: Greek mythology and you know all this stuff.

444
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: In other words, the fact that the Bible said it

445
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: was not enough. We had to have evidence outside the Bible.

446
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay, major point.

447
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: We have only excavated about six percent of the land

448
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: of the Bible, and so I find it laughable when

449
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 3: someone says, well, there's no evidence of this, you think

450
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: it might be in the other ninety four percent. Okay,

451
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: can you give us a chance. Since nineteen ninety three,

452
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: we now have three inscriptions validating David outside the viable three.

453
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: Imagine what we're going to find in the coming years.

454
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 3: Even David's own palace, most archaeologists would now accept, has

455
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: been excavated in the City of David in Jerusalem. So

456
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 3: people like Eric Clyde have had to yield that point. Okay,

457
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: and yes, now the last thousand years is secure now

458
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 3: people like me. My primary of research focus. The next

459
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: battle is back to the period of the Exodus. Can

460
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: we deal with the historicity going back a few hundred

461
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: more years?

462
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: I want to get into that. But before we do,

463
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 4: it seems that in the nineteenth century, which is when atheism,

464
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: I won't say it was invented. There might have been

465
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: apists before that, but there weren't too many explicit apists.

466
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 4: Even in philosophy. It's really hard to find growing out

467
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: of the Enlightenment. Out of the Enlightenment, but even when

468
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 4: the Enlightenment for one hundred years or so, I think

469
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: Hume was probably an atheist, but he doesn't even say

470
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: that explicitly.

471
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 5: But in the nineteenth.

472
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: Century, starting with Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, you've got to be

473
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 4: sort of brazen atheists. And then you also have this

474
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 4: kind of school of biblical higher criticism. And although it's

475
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: very ingenious because you've got these guys who are doing

476
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: a close reading of the Bible, it seems to me

477
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: that a lot of what they do is the argument

478
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 4: from personal incredulity. And by that, I mean you've got

479
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 4: some guys sitting in like Germany or England, and he's

480
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 4: basically saying, from my armchair, sitting where I am, it

481
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 4: doesn't look to me like the Bible was written in

482
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 4: ancient times. It looks to me like probably some guys

483
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 4: around like three hundred BC sat around and cooked the

484
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 4: whole thing up.

485
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 6: Right.

486
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: This guy's never been out of his armchair, he's never

487
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: been to Israel, he's never actually looked in the ground.

488
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 4: But they make these assertions. Uh, And isn't it true

489
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 4: that the beauty of biblical archaeology is it comes with

490
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: this kind of undogmatic All right, the Bible makes a claim,

491
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 4: We're not going to say anything about it. We're just

492
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 4: going to go out there with some you know, with

493
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 4: some pick axes and we're going to look inside the

494
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 4: ground and we're going to see what we find, and

495
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: we're going to see how all this match is up.

496
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: And this has been like a devastating blow against these

497
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: armchair theorists who have made innumerable claims and in fact,

498
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 4: when the early archaeological findings came in, like a really

499
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 4: good example, you mentioned the tail Dan Stelly. Of course

500
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 4: I let mazars work in on the city of David.

501
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: Some of these guys were like so astounded that they liked,

502
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: this has to be a forgery, This has to be

503
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: a fake. They even accused the of the Behan, the

504
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: archaeologist who made the discovery, that maybe he faked it.

505
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 4: They couldn't believe it.

506
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to my world. Yeah, there is a hyper

507
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: skepticism that exists. We have a very well known pigrefer

508
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: also from George Washington University who with the recent announcement

509
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: a peer reviewed article very recently using AI to what

510
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: we would call hard machine learning and analysis to calibrate

511
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: the radiocarbon dates of the Dead Sea scrolls. Because there's

512
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: a lot of presupposition that goes into things. For example,

513
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: a skeptic would tell you that the Book of Daniel

514
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: couldn't have been written before one sixty seven BC, because

515
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: we know that it's talking about Antiochus Epiphanis, and there's

516
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: no such thing as predictive prophecy. We all know that

517
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: it can't be possible. Okay, So the presuppositionally not based

518
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 3: on scientific not based on handwriting styles or anything else

519
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,239
Speaker 3: or radiocarbon, but pre sub positionally we know that it

520
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: has to be after one sixty seven. Well, the new

521
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: peer reviewed research shows that it dates to the third

522
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: century BC. And so now you have scholars coming out

523
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 3: and literally saying you can't trust the science, well, because

524
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: we know there's no such thing as predictive prophecy.

525
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 5: So this is fascinating. Let's bring it out a little

526
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 5: more explicitly.

527
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 4: I think what you're saying is that there is a

528
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 4: presumptive philosophical atheism built into a biblical study guilty until

529
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 4: proven innocent, right. And so let's say, for example, you

530
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: have the Book of Isaiah, and the Book of Isaiah

531
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: appears to unmistakably forecast something that something happens. Yeah, the

532
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: scholar goes, there's no way that Isaiah could have written

533
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 4: this before it happened. Because there's no way he could

534
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 4: have known it was going to happen. And since we

535
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 4: all know prediction and prophecy is bogus, therefore we have

536
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: to date the Book of Isaiah later because he must

537
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: have known that it was going to happen and then

538
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 4: pretended like he was prophesying. It isn't this really what

539
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: we're getting at?

540
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: Circular reasoning? That is exactly what it is. And you

541
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: asked earlier for an example, let me give you one.

542
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: I was excavating ten miles north of Jerusalem for many

543
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: years at a small site that is perhaps the sight

544
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: of Aye and the Old Testament, but on top of

545
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: it was built a new Testament site, probably Ephrium of

546
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: John chapter ten, where Jesus spends the.

547
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: Last month of his life.

548
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Within the side of Ephraum, I was excavating clay roof tiles. Well,

549
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: you think that's no big deal, right, I'll publish these.

550
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: Well.

551
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: The Bible says that, in fact, Jesus at Capernaum was

552
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: healing people and they.

553
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: Broke through the roof.

554
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: This is Luke's version of it. They broke through a

555
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: roof and they lowered their friend down to Jesus. In Greek,

556
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: the word Karamas, is you ceramic group and lowered the

557
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: friend of Jesus. I'm excavating ceramic roof tiles in a

558
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: first century context. The New Testament says there were ceramic

559
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: roofs in the first century. Guess what I was being

560
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: told when I went to publish it by the peer reviewers.

561
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: Can't be Ceramic roof tiles don't exist until the second century.

562
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: They're introduced by the Romans after the Bible revolt. You

563
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: should fix this well. I stood my ground, and I

564
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: also found that other sites had been finding them but

565
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 3: not publishing them because they're being told that it's not possible,

566
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: and so it's creating. Now you see what I'm getting

567
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: at this circular reasoning. I stood my ground less than

568
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: a year ago in the Givati parking lot dig right

569
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 3: next to the city of David. Guess what they announced,

570
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: this major breakthrough clay rooftiles in Jerusalem from the second

571
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: century BC. I was right all along. The Bible was

572
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: right all along, but there was a circular reasoning that

573
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: was arguing against it. That's the type of arena of

574
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: ideas into which we have to be willing to engage.

575
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that part of what we see

576
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: here is that the skeptics are very attentive to what

577
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 4: they see as pro biblical bias. And so, for example,

578
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: when the British archaeologist Garstang was dating the time that

579
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 4: Joshua crossed over into the Promised Land, he basically said, well, look,

580
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 4: this occurs at roughly the time that these places got burned,

581
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 4: just like the Bible says. And then along comes a

582
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 4: British archaeologist, Kathleen Kenyan, and she goes, no, that guy

583
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: is wrong, because when I look for certain types of pottery,

584
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 4: I don't see them, and therefore the burning occurred earlier.

585
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: And so when Joshua showed up, there was nothing left here.

586
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 4: There was no place to burn because it had already

587
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: been burned like one hundred and fifty years earlier. Now

588
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: everyone is attentive to the fact that Garstang comes out

589
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 4: of a religious background and that his white is very

590
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 4: religious and involved in all this missionary activity, and so

591
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 4: they go, well, this guy is obviously trying to just.

592
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 5: Prove the Bible.

593
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 4: But nobody asks a different question, which is, hey, Kathleen

594
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 4: Kenyan is coming to this research. She's part of a

595
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: British archaeological mission. This is the time of the British mandate.

596
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: Britain has all kinds of interests in the region. They

597
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 4: don't really want to make either the Jews or the

598
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 4: Palestinians feel like they own the land completely. The British

599
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: want to kind of arbitrate the dispute. So in other words,

600
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 4: what I'm getting at is, of course they can be biased,

601
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: but they can be biased on both sides, on all.

602
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: Sides, that's right.

603
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: I think each case has to be evaluated on its

604
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: own merits. What people don't understand about gar is that

605
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: he was the head of the Department of Antiquaries Garstak.

606
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 3: Don't make him out as some Bible of her. He's

607
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: the number one ceramic typologist of his generation. Keingyin was

608
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 3: learning from from Garstang. I mean he Garstang was the man.

609
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: Now I've gone back and Brian Wendeli was on his

610
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 3: dissertation committee recently and he's just written on this and

611
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: has reopened this for investigation. I think to a degree

612
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: we've given Kenyon a bad rap. There's a lot of

613
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 3: things that she wrote and said that she wasn't disagreeing

614
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: with the biblical date she's just saying that what we

615
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: call city four at Jericho, and her view was destroyed

616
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: earlier than Garstang flight it was. But she went on

617
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: to say there's a city five at Jericho and that

618
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: there's evidence of destruction within that city. And she said,

619
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 3: you know, the date doesn't fit perfectly, but it's close.

620
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: So it's not going to make either side happy early

621
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: date or late days. So it's just this is what's

622
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 3: great about my job. You know, we get to investigate

623
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 3: these types of things and think them through, and sometimes

624
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 3: it's not over days and weeks, but it's over decades.

625
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 5: Your current work.

626
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 4: Let's talk about Biblical Shiloh in America. For different reasons,

627
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: we have places called Shiloh, but in Israel it's Shiloh.

628
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 3: When the rest of the world America is the only

629
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: place that calls oh yeah, yeah, all right.

630
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 4: And so the Israelites cross over into the Promised Land,

631
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: but they don't go to Jerusalem. They go to this

632
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 4: place called Shiloh. Talk about the biblical what happens in Shilo.

633
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: Well, first they go from Chatin to Shiloh. So the

634
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: conquest is about a six and a half year period.

635
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: It begins at Shatim Joshua two to one. And then

636
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 3: it ends up at Shiloh, where Joshua eighteen one says

637
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: that Joshua wrects the tabernacle there at Shiloh. And I'll say,

638
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: she Loo and Shiloh interchangeable. Yeah, why why Sheilo? He's

639
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: from the tribe of Ephriam number one, and this is

640
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: e from territory. It's centrally located number two, number three.

641
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: I can tell you because I'm there before five am

642
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: every morning. Is there is a cloud that hovers over

643
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: Shilo as well, And of course in the Israelite mind,

644
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 3: God dwells in the cloud and so forth. And then

645
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: Joshua's hometown, Tim de Chrees, is just a few miles away,

646
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: and Joshua lives two decades after this point too, So

647
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: in his hometown, by the way, is underway under excavation

648
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 3: right now as well, Tim Neches.

649
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 4: And by the tabernacle, you mean not a temple, but

650
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 4: kind of well, what was originally a portable tent right

651
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 4: in the desert. The Israelites had a tent they would

652
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 4: construct a kind of a makeshift tabernacle substitute for a

653
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: temple worship there they come to shilo they locate the tabernacle.

654
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: Did they ever build a temple of any kind of shilo?

655
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, interestingly yes, So it is a tent, which

656
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: makes sense because they're nomadic people, so to have a

657
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: mobile shrine makes sense for a mobile people. But now

658
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: they're coming into the land, they're going to become semi nomadic,

659
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 3: and so the original mischkan or tabernacle is pitched at

660
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: she Love. Over time, yes, they do build a more

661
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: permanent structure. And most people kind of read over this,

662
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: but if you look in for Samuel chapter two, for

663
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: Samuel chapter three, the language is changing there. You can

664
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: see it in English, but it's really clear in Hebrew.

665
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: It's going from a temporary structure to a permanent structure.

666
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: Now it's got doors instead of curtains and so forth.

667
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: It's also in the Mishnah. So the Seder alamba Ai

668
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 3: the Zabay in fourteen six both mentioned that a permanent

669
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 3: structure is built at she Love with a tint as

670
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 3: a roof. So it's a quasi tabernacle tent structure, and

671
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: it's within the Holy of Holies of that where the

672
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: Ark of the Covenant rest for over three centuries and

673
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: spoiler alert. We think we're excavating that building right now.

674
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: Imagine exploring Israel, where thousands of years of history are

675
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 4: on display, and embarking on a journey that changes.

676
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 5: The way you see the world.

677
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: This is Dnesh Dsuza inviting you to join me and

678
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 4: New York Times bestselling author Jonathan Kahn for the Dragons

679
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: Prophecy Israel Tour December seventh through sixteen, twenty twenty six.

680
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 4: For ten unforgettable days, you'll discover the best of Israel.

681
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 4: You'll walk the stone streets of Jerusalem, pray at the

682
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 4: Western walls, sail the Sea of Galilee, stand on the

683
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: Mount of Olives, visit ancient sites that confirm the Biblical

684
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 4: prophecies and the Jewish people's deep history in this land.

685
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 4: Jonathan Cohn and I will both be speaking. We'll open

686
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 4: the scriptures in the very places you've read about for years,

687
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 4: connecting the archaeological record with Biblical prophecy and also what's

688
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: happening in our world today. Come see for yourself what history, archaeology,

689
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 4: and prophecy reveal in Israel. Join us call eight hundred

690
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 4: two four seven eighteen ninety nine. That's eight hundred two

691
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 4: four seven eighteen ninety nine. We'll go to Inspiration travel

692
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 4: dot com slash dnsh to get information about the Dragon's

693
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 4: Prophecy Israel Tour.

694
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 2: Do you really want to have a Merry Christmas? You've

695
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: been hearing about the opportunity to save babies this Christmas

696
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: time by providing ultrasounds with preborn Well, I have very

697
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: good news right now. Your gift is doubled and you

698
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: can save twice as many babies. Join us saving babies

699
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: this Christmas season. Call eight three three eight five zero. Baby.

700
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 2: That's eight three three eight five zero two two two nine.

701
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 2: One hundred and forty dollars saves five babies. Two hundred

702
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: eighty dollars could save ten twenty eight dollars a month.

703
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: Can save a baby a month for less than a

704
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: dollar a day. And if you provide an ultrasound machine

705
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: with your year end gift of fifteen thousand dollars, even

706
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: that is doubled. And remember one hundred percent of what

707
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: you give goes directly to providing ultrasounds. We separately fundraise

708
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: for administrative and overhead. Make this a Merry Christmas. Call

709
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: eight three three eight five zero Baby that's eight three

710
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 2: three eight five zero two to two two nine, or

711
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: go to preborn dot com slash Denesh.

712
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the Arc of the Covenant for a moment.

713
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 4: Most people's exposure to that comes straight from the Indiana

714
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 4: Jones movies. What was the Arc of the Covenant? I

715
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 4: understand it was a kind of a box or an

716
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 4: arc that contained the remnants of the broken ten Commandments,

717
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 4: apparently some of the manna that the Israelites consumed in

718
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 4: the desert. It was that the contents of the.

719
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 3: Arc and Aaron's Rod, Aaron's rod which had budded as

720
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: a miracle, those three things inside it. So it's a

721
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: wooden box made of chattimwood, acacia wood, overlaid with gold,

722
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 3: with a lid on it. And on top of it

723
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: are chair of them, so you have depictions of angels.

724
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 3: There are our whole on the side, brackets, if you will,

725
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: where a pole can go through, so that it can

726
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: be carried without touching the arc itself. God says he's

727
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: going to dwell there, So let me give you this

728
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: first Jeremiah seven twelve. God tells Jeremiah Jerusalem is about

729
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 3: to be destroyed by the Babylonians.

730
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: As a judgment.

731
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: He says to Jeremiah, go now to Shiloh, where I

732
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: first caused my name to dwell. See what I did

733
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: there in others, don't think I won't allow you to

734
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: be destroyed. Look how much I love Sheiloh and what

735
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 3: I allowed them. Well, we're excellently excavating through that destruction.

736
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: But the point I wanted to bring out is where

737
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: I first caused my name to dwell. So God says I'm.

738
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: Going to live there.

739
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to come down and dwell there, and you'll

740
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: have connection with me through the sacrificial system. And it's

741
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 3: a means by which you will be able to have

742
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 3: connection with God.

743
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 5: What are you looking for in Shiloh?

744
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: When I went to Sila in twenty sixteen, the Danish

745
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 3: had done some work there in the nineteen twenties. The

746
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 3: Israelis in the nineteen eighties about two percent of the

747
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 3: side here in about three percent of the site there,

748
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: so ninety five percent was still underground. What I wanted

749
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: to do was to open up the entire northern slope

750
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: and to connect the Danish work with the Israeli work,

751
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: because I think we're subject to misinterpretation when we're drawing

752
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: large conclusions based on a little bit of evidence. In

753
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 3: my perfect world, if you would have asked me as

754
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: people did in interviews back in twenty sixteen, I would

755
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 3: have said, well, in my perfect world, we're going to

756
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: find evidence of the Tabernacle, of the sacrificial system, and

757
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: of the gate that's mentioned in the Bible and Danash.

758
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: I have to tell you that I'm a very fortunate man,

759
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: because these things can go on for many decades. As

760
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: a Hoodnetzer found out at Arodium thirty five years looking

761
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: for Herod's tomb, but almost immediately we began to uncover

762
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: those things. So the area that I chose to excavate

763
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: turned out to be.

764
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: Exactly what I was hoping that it would be.

765
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 5: Mean that is truly fortunate in the sense that at least.

766
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 4: I've been reading about the fact that you've had in fact,

767
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 4: you know, quite devout biblical scholars who have gone, for example,

768
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 4: in search of Biblical eye. They've devoted their whole career

769
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 4: to looking for it and sort of been forced to

770
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: say at the end of it, Hey, I gave it

771
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 4: the good fight, but I never found it. And the

772
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 4: reason is that, well, I think most people don't know

773
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 4: this because we talk so comfortably about you know, Biblical

774
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: Jericho and Biblical Eye and Biblical Hearts or these places

775
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 4: don't come with like name signs. Right, all you see

776
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 4: is a big mound in the earth and you've got

777
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 4: to go discover. You know, is this Akron where the

778
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 4: Philistines lived, and this is this actually Biblical Eye. Talk

779
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 4: a little bit about how this sort of there have

780
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: been some false starts in the search for this place

781
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 4: called Biblical Eye, which is one of the three critical

782
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 4: sites that the Bible says that Joshua burned. And in

783
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 4: fact it's given some ammunition to skeptics because they're able

784
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 4: to say, hey, hey, you looked over here, you didn't

785
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: find ash. Therefore what the Bible says is not true.

786
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, before I get to that, let me just

787
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: tell you on a positive side about Shiloh why there

788
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 3: is no controversy there. It's because of the Bible itself.

789
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 3: In Judges twenty one is very specific. It gives you

790
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 3: three data points of where Shiloh is located. And Edward

791
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: Robinson in the eighteen thirties just took his Bible and

792
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 3: got on horseback and went up highway sixty as it

793
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 3: would be known today, and it led him directly to

794
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 3: this mound. And now we have found inscriptions and everything else.

795
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: That proved it's right away.

796
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 3: The Bible was very specific, and that's what you don't

797
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 3: get from other ancient literature, that level of specificity on places.

798
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: For example.

799
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 3: Now back to your question on bibl what we call

800
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: the problem of I. That's exactly right. The word in

801
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 3: Hebrew means ruin ha i, the ruin, the destruction. So

802
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 3: when Abram Abraham pitches his tents between Bethel and Hai,

803
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: between the ruin, you always get Bethlin Eye together. In

804
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 3: the Old Testament, there are couplets, if you will, And

805
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 3: so the hills between beth and Eyes where they pitch

806
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: their tents, and we excavated in that area for many

807
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: many years. Garstang himself had worked a little bit at

808
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: a site called Ettel, thinking that that was the eye

809
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 3: of Joshua's day. Here's what happens, and you'll pick up

810
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: on this nash, and I think your audience will too.

811
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 3: There's more than one Jericho. There's Old Testament Jericho where

812
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: the walls fell, and there's New Testament Jericho, and they're

813
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 3: two miles apart. You can visit both of them when

814
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: you go there today.

815
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 5: So Jesus is Jericho is different.

816
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 3: Than and this explains it a seeming discrepancy between Matthew

817
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 3: and Mark's account. Is Jesus going toward Jericho or is

818
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: he going away from Jericho? And is encounter with five Bartomaeus?

819
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 3: They're both true, depends on which Jericho you're talking about.

820
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 3: And now today you have three Jerichos, you have modern Jericho.

821
00:46:58,960 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 1: That's there.

822
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: What my point is that names migrate in antiquity. Why

823
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 3: do they migrate climate change? Okay, the original site loses

824
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: its water source and people migrate normally to a nearby side,

825
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 3: but they retain the name, just like at Jericho. So

826
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: New Testament Jericho is not Old Testament Jericho. The same

827
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: thing I believe happened at I. People move from the ruin.

828
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 3: It had already been in ruin since the Early Bronze Age.

829
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 3: By the way, it's a massive Early Bronze Age side.

830
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 3: And the site that we excavated about a half a

831
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 3: mile away kerbdol Maca theater. For many years, we sort

832
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: of checked off fifteen criteria one by one over the

833
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 3: years that these are the things that we think it

834
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 3: would need to have if it was a candidate for

835
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: biblical lide. We can't say with certainty that we know

836
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 3: because we didn't get the city limits side that pointed

837
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 3: it out, but we did find verisimilitude between the archaeological

838
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: data and.

839
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: The biblical text.

840
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 4: We just have a little time lift clows out by

841
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 4: talking a little bit about the New Testament. Now, it's

842
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 4: actually appropriate to focus on the Old because the Old

843
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 4: covers two thousand years and the New Testament covers like

844
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 4: forty years, So in other words, it covers the ministry

845
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 4: of Jesus, it covers the acts of the Apostles. It's

846
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 4: actually in the biblical span a very short period of time.

847
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 4: But I want to highlight how even in the New

848
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 4: Testament you have some very sort of specific and in

849
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: some cases quite minute details that have been stunningly vindicated

850
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 4: or confirmed by the findings of archaeology. Can you talk

851
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 4: to a little bit about the ponscious Pilot stone that

852
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 4: was found up in the cesarea, the northern part of Israel,

853
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 4: where Pilot had his palace and his and some temples

854
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 4: and so on. Because Poncious Pilot is in the Bible,

855
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 4: it's not that there were no references to him outside

856
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 4: the Bible, but they were from historical sources that were

857
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 4: a little questionable, and so people would say, we don't

858
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 4: really know if there was a guy named Bontes Pilot.

859
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: And moreover, the Bible has his title wrong.

860
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 5: He's not really a.

861
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 4: Governor or a prefect. People in those times were called

862
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 4: procurator or something else.

863
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: And then what happens, well, that's this is a good one.

864
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: Before the nineteen ninety three King David debacle, it was

865
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 3: the patchist Pilot right. This was settled in nineteen sixty one,

866
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: the year before I was born. But if you go

867
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 3: back to the old textbooks and no literature there, it

868
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: is this argument. It wasn't so much that he didn't exist,

869
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 3: because we had coins of Pilot and so. But it's

870
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 3: the issue of the biblical text. In your English Bible

871
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: it says that he was the governor of Judea. The

872
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 3: Greek manuscript from which that is translated says perfect us. Okay, well,

873
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: Cornelius Tacitus, the Roman historian the second century, so that

874
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 3: the title of the rulers of the province were procurators.

875
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 3: And so we know that Tacitus has to be right,

876
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 3: and therefore the New Testament wasn't written until a century later.

877
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: It wasn't written in the first century. After all, it

878
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: must have been written later because they got the title wrong.

879
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 3: That was the battle, and so at Cesarea Maritima in

880
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: secondary usage. When the theater there was excavated, they indeed

881
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 3: found the famous punch pilot inscription. Tiberius Caesar is mentioned. Also,

882
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 3: Jesus dies under Tiberius, so it's a Tiberium dedicated to Tiberius.

883
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: And then it has not only the name of Pilatus,

884
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 3: but also his title. And guess what it was. Fact,

885
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 3: it wasn't procurator, it was prefect. The Biblical writers had

886
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: it right all along. Probably by the second century they

887
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 3: had changed the term by which they called him. They

888
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 3: they were called procurators. But at the time of the

889
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 3: Bible it's exactly as we read it in the text.

890
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 4: And not only that, but the thing about the pilot

891
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 4: stone is it's not as if the stone comes out

892
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 4: of the ground so much per se. Apparently the stone

893
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 4: had been discarded and it was used as part of

894
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 4: the building of a wall.

895
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 5: So you have this. They're obviously not.

896
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Throwing out stone.

897
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: Oh yes, the secondary usage as well.

898
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 4: Right by secondary usage, use for something else is to

899
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 4: fill something else, And people go, wait a minute, there's

900
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 4: some writing on here. You pull it out and then

901
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 4: you discover that this is a priceless artifact that casts

902
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 4: important new All right, let's close out by asking you this,

903
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 4: what do you think.

904
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 6: Is the biggest discovery in biblical archaeology that is waiting

905
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 6: to be made? In other words, in other words, what's

906
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 6: the what's the one that will make you jump out

907
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 6: of your seat if they're able to corroborate.

908
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 3: I'm a little biased, but we are excavating the building

909
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 3: at Shiloh that I think is the building of the Tabernacle.

910
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 3: And if we indeed, if it is what we think

911
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 3: that it is, then you're talking about the place where

912
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: God says I lived and a holy of holies in

913
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 3: which we are finding all kinds of culted material related

914
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: to the to Yahweistic worship and so forth. So give

915
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: me three more years, and if it is what I

916
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 3: think it is, then my answer is the tabernaculate Shilah.

917
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 4: And this is the reason this is such a big deal,

918
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 4: is that the Israelites wouldn't get to Jerusalem for another

919
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 4: three hundred and fifteen years, right, and so later you

920
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 4: have a temple, the Solomonic Temple, and the Ark of

921
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 4: the Covenant is relocated there. But for this critical period

922
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 4: somewhere between the fourteenth and fifteenth century BC till about

923
00:52:54,239 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 4: almost one thousand, right, that key period, Shiloh is the place.

924
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 3: Well until about ten seventy five is when Chila is destroyed.

925
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 3: Then it remember, goes among the Philistines for a few months,

926
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: that's right. Then it goes back to the Israelites at

927
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 3: Met Shemesh, then to Kitty Jennine up on the hilltop

928
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 3: at Notre Dame today at Kitty Jennein. David comes and

929
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 3: retrieves it from there, brings it then into the city

930
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: of David for a couple of generations and pitches a

931
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 3: tent in what we call the Tabernacle of David. And

932
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: then finally, yes, around one thousand, it's then brought up

933
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 3: to the temple.

934
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 4: Now, you know, I'll just close out with a thought,

935
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 4: and this was my impression. Wi and I went to

936
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 4: Israel for the first time the end of twenty twenty

937
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 4: two o first exposure really to a lot of this

938
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 4: biblical archaeology, and my immediate reaction was, Wow, you know,

939
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 4: I'm really amazed that this information is not being shouted

940
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 4: from the rooftops of every synagogue and church you know

941
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 4: pastor preaches about Jeremiah.

942
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 5: Wouldn't be cool to.

943
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 4: Show a couple of clay seals and point out that,

944
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 4: you know, guess what, you know, who would think that

945
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 4: one could biblically validate, right, not just a king, but

946
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 4: some prophet who's out in the street.

947
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 3: Well, in those obscure names of scribes in Jeremiah, get

948
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: Alayah or some name, and then you find them.

949
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 4: On the seals, right, That's what I'm talking about, where

950
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 4: you suddenly go this little detail right tells you that

951
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 4: all of this Jeremiah, Zadekaiah, you know, Jehu kal Snamchelamayah,

952
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 4: get Alayah, sanafashor. I mean, all these guys kind of

953
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 4: spring in a way. They spring out of the Bible

954
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 4: and into the pages of history, but via the pathway

955
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 4: of archaeology. Scott Strippling, thank you very much for joining me.

956
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: Good real, George Inn, thank you.

957
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 3: Subscribe to The Dinesh DeSUS a podcast on Apple, Google

958
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 3: and Spotify, or watch on Rumble YouTube and Salem now

959
00:54:54,800 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 3: dot com,