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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains content that may be triggering for some listeners.

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Speaker 1: Find inspiration as close as your phone. Download the Jesus

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Speaker 1: Calling app and get started today for free. Look for

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Speaker 1: the Jesus Calling app in both the Apple and Google

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Speaker 1: Play stores.

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Speaker 3: Strength is not our tolerance for whatever comes our way.

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Speaker 3: It is our ability to stay focused regardless of what

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Speaker 3: comes our way.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. Today, we're joined by

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Speaker 1: author and speaker Sarah Jakes Roberts, who invites us to

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Speaker 1: rethink what true strength looks like, shifting from building a

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Speaker 1: tolerance for the world's noise to finding stillness in our calling,

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Speaker 1: from stepping back from social media to anchoring identity and

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Speaker 1: daily prayer. Sarah shares liberating truth she discovered when she

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Speaker 1: finally hit mute on the digital world. Next, we hear

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Speaker 1: from human rights defender Timothy Cho, who recounts his harrowing

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Speaker 1: escape from North Korea. He also talks about the oppression

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Speaker 1: and lies that were leveled at him from an early age,

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Speaker 1: and the moment he was labeled a traitor in his

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Speaker 1: own country, driving his daring escape to experience the freedom

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Speaker 1: truth brings, and how he now advocates for others to

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Speaker 1: find their own freedom. Let's start by speaking with Sarah

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Speaker 1: Jakes Roberts.

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Speaker 3: My name is Sarah Jakes Roberts. I am a woman,

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Speaker 3: a wife, a mother who has the incredible privilege of

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Speaker 3: helping other women to discover how to integrate their faith

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Speaker 3: into their everyday existence through a movement called woman Evolve.

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Speaker 3: And through Woman Evolve, we've got events and podcasts and

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Speaker 3: experiences that serve as companions to women who are on

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Speaker 3: a journey of evolving. When I think back over my

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Speaker 3: life where I had moments of high visibility, moments of pressure,

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Speaker 3: I really felt like strength was being able to just

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Speaker 3: take whatever opinions and thoughts came my way. I felt

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Speaker 3: like if I exposed myself to them, whether it was

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Speaker 3: on social media or throughout my circle, hearing all of

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Speaker 3: the good and the bad, that I would build a

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Speaker 3: tolerance and a confidence that would help me become more

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Speaker 3: strong in my leadership. What I know now that I

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Speaker 3: didn't know then is that strength is not our tolerance

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Speaker 3: for whatever comes our way. It is our ability to

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Speaker 3: stay focused regardless of what comes our way. And so

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Speaker 3: those moments were distractions for me and they made me

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Speaker 3: think more about myself than the actual calling that was

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Speaker 3: on my life or what Jesus wanted me to do

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Speaker 3: in any given moment. One of the most recent examples

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Speaker 3: I have of being in a situation where I had

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Speaker 3: to reclaim my focus and to remember my values came

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Speaker 3: off the heels of us having one of our Women

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Speaker 3: Evolved events, and this particular event we hosted about twenty

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Speaker 3: five thousand women, and it was an incredible time in

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Speaker 3: the presence of God, community Fund connection, and I felt

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Speaker 3: so good about what took place over those few days.

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Speaker 1: Then people who weren't.

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Speaker 3: There were creating commentary on social media about negative aspects

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Speaker 3: of something they saw that people posted, and I was

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Speaker 3: so hurt that something that felt so pure and so

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Speaker 3: impactful and the moment was being criticized from people who

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Speaker 3: weren't even in the room. And so I found myself

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Speaker 3: just looking at all of these different negative opinions and

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Speaker 3: then looking at people defending, and then I began to

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Speaker 3: become consumed with what other people were saying about me.

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Speaker 3: Where I was tracking down rumors, I was tracking down

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Speaker 3: what other people were saying. And so when I shifted

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Speaker 3: my eyes from seeing and tracking down what people were

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Speaker 3: saying about me and back to this place of just

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Speaker 3: humility and obedience and hunger and desire to really just

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Speaker 3: do something in the earth that reflected God's goodness. I

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Speaker 3: felt a peace come about me that allowed me to

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Speaker 3: settle into not perfection, not into defense, but just vulnerability

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Speaker 3: and safety that comes with really trusting God. I felt

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Speaker 3: like if I could build a tolerance for it, because

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Speaker 3: everyone says, like, you know, this is a part of

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Speaker 3: if we really believe in this faith that we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: There are so many moments in scripture where it's like

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Speaker 3: His strength is made perfect in our weakness and this

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Speaker 3: challenge to be vulnerable. But then we have this cultural

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Speaker 3: messaging of resiliency and the only person you have to

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Speaker 3: be better than than what person you were yesterday, And

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Speaker 3: so it makes us believe that we in our own

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Speaker 3: strength have to be a force field. And I believe

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Speaker 3: that that's why so many people are exhausted, because they're

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Speaker 3: trying to protect themselves and prop themselves up in moments

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Speaker 3: where they don't have what it takes. And there is

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Speaker 3: something powerful about saying I don't I don't have what

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Speaker 3: it takes, coming to a place where you can admit

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Speaker 3: that I don't have to be strong enough. Takes so

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Speaker 3: much pressure off of yourself. I do not have to

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Speaker 3: be resilient enough to let millions of people talk poorly

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Speaker 3: about me. I don't have to do that, and so

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Speaker 3: I don't feel this need to try and prove myself

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Speaker 3: or to feel like I am worthy enough for some

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Speaker 3: of the things that have happened. I'm not. But I'm

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Speaker 3: okay with that because they've happened anyway, and it makes

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Speaker 3: my gratitude more magnified because I realize just how unworthy

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Speaker 3: I am, but how good God has been in allowing

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Speaker 3: me this space and opportunity anyway. For me, staying focus

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Speaker 3: is asking myself over and over again, what is most

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Speaker 3: important to you in this moment? And sometimes it's that

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Speaker 3: I want to defend myself, and sometimes it's that I

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Speaker 3: want to hide. If I can be honest about what's

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Speaker 3: most important to me in that moment, it helps me

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Speaker 3: to see where I am channeling my energy, my thoughts,

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Speaker 3: my creativity, and then I have to be willing to

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Speaker 3: ask myself, is this a worthy goal? Is this a

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Speaker 3: worthy focal point? And most of the time it's not,

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Speaker 3: And so I have to reclaim that focus well, what

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Speaker 3: does really matter? And when I remember what really matters,

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Speaker 3: it has nothing to do with how many followers, or

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Speaker 3: what people are saying, or what the next book is

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Speaker 3: going to be called. It really comes down to am

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Speaker 3: I aligned in my heart with what is pure and good?

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Speaker 3: And do I feel like I have the resiliency to

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Speaker 3: show up to whatever battle or obstacle is in my

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Speaker 3: way in any given moment. Social media is such a

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Speaker 3: loud place and it can consume our thoughts in our mind. Recently,

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Speaker 3: I got off of social media just to clear my head.

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Speaker 3: And what I realized was that when I was scrolling

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Speaker 3: on social media, even when I would close the app,

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Speaker 3: I would still be processing what I had been exposed

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Speaker 3: to in my mind, so much so that I wasn't

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Speaker 3: on social media, but I was still processing that information.

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Speaker 3: And so taking that time away from social media helped

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Speaker 3: me to clear the cachet, if you will, and I

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Speaker 3: was able to process some of my own thoughts, and

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Speaker 3: I was able to when I was in my prayer time,

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Speaker 3: instead of having my prayer and meditation time then compete

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Speaker 3: with my social media time, I was able to meditate

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Speaker 3: on the words that I was receiving in prayer, meditating

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Speaker 3: on the things that were bothering me in my heart,

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Speaker 3: and to submit those in prayer over and over again.

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Speaker 3: And so when we talk about trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: our identity in Christ, in the world that is so noisy,

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Speaker 3: we have to be the one to turn the volume down.

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Speaker 3: You have to remember that you hold the remote control

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Speaker 3: and at any given moment, you can hit mute. And

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Speaker 3: in the process of hitting mute, you have to be

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Speaker 3: willing to confront some of those voices that exist within

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Speaker 3: our own head. I found for me that social media

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Speaker 3: was really an avoidance tactic that I was using to

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Speaker 3: have to keep myself from having to focus on some

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Speaker 3: of the things that were happening in my life. And

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Speaker 3: so I was able to confront some of my own

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Speaker 3: patterns and paradigms and to seek helper coping mechanisms and

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Speaker 3: healthier ways of dealing with things that we're showing up

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Speaker 3: in my world. But I couldn't do that as long

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Speaker 3: as I was distracted. Our identity is constantly being developed,

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Speaker 3: and we get to decide whether we allow it to

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Speaker 3: be formed by digital algorithms or by words from God,

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Speaker 3: affirmations that come from stillness and prayer. Connecting with God

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Speaker 3: daily allows us to be rooted and anchored in such

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Speaker 3: a way that when we show up to the world,

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Speaker 3: we're not asking the world to tell us who we are.

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Speaker 3: We're not waiting for the world to tell us what's

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Speaker 3: available to us. We show up with a confidence and

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Speaker 3: a sensitivity that I am here in this day to

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Speaker 3: offer light and hope to whoever I encounter, whether it

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Speaker 3: is the cashier at McDonald's or it's my children who

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Speaker 3: are in my home. I wake up each day because

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Speaker 3: I have been fueled by my relationship a God with

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Speaker 3: an offering and I just can't wait to give it

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Speaker 3: to whoever I may encounter. And that posture allows us

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Speaker 3: to make the types of power moves that push back darkness,

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Speaker 3: that allows us to be a light in dark times,

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Speaker 3: and it helps us to go to bed knowing that

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Speaker 3: I may not know what my big purpose is that

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Speaker 3: God has for me, but I did serve a purpose

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Speaker 3: and allowing light to invade the earth by the way

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Speaker 3: that I showed up in this day. Jesus calling January

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Speaker 3: thirty first, I am your strength and shield. I plan

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Speaker 3: out each day and have it ready for you long

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Speaker 3: before you arise. From bed. I also provide the strength

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Speaker 3: you need each step.

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Speaker 2: Of the way.

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Speaker 3: Instead of assessing your energy level and wondering about what's

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Speaker 3: on the road ahead, concentrate on staying in touch with me.

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Speaker 3: My power flows freely into to you through our open communication.

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Speaker 3: Refuse to waste energy worrying, and you will have strength

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Speaker 3: to spare. Whenever you start to feel afraid, remember that

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Speaker 3: I am your shield, but unlike inanimate armor, I am

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Speaker 3: always alert and active. My presence watches over you, continually

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Speaker 3: protecting you from both the known and unknown dangers. Entrust

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Speaker 3: yourself to my watchcare, which is the best security system available.

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Speaker 3: I am with you and will watch over you wherever

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Speaker 3: you go.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about Sarah Jakes Roberts, visit Sarahjakes Roberts

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Speaker 1: dot com and be sure to check out her new book,

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Speaker 1: The Power and Surrender, available at your favorite retailer. Stay

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Speaker 1: tuned to Timothy Chow's story After a Brief Message. With

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Speaker 1: more than fifty million copies sold, the Rich Classic Edition

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Speaker 1: of Jesus Calling is your daily guide to living a

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Speaker 1: more peaceful life. Experience a deeper relationship with Jesus as

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Speaker 1: you savor the presence of the one who understands you

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Speaker 1: perfectly and loves you forever. With scripture and personal reflections,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Calling is your year long guide to living a

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Speaker 1: more peaceful life. Its price and size also make it

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Speaker 1: the perfect gift for anyone who needs encouragement. Find Jesus

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Speaker 1: Calling wherever you buy books. Our next guest is human

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Speaker 1: rights defender Timothy Cho, whose difficult life in North Korea,

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Speaker 1: filled with arrests, torture, and interrogations, was so bleak that

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Speaker 1: he made the dangerous decision to escape and it nearly

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Speaker 1: cost him his life. On multiple occasions. Timothy shares the

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Speaker 1: incredible story of how kind strangers helped him make it

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Speaker 1: out alive, and how after a stint in a prison cell,

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Speaker 1: turned his understanding of God's love into passionate activism.

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Speaker 2: My name is Timothy. I am a North Carolina eskap.

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Speaker 2: Both my parents were high school teachers and we were

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Speaker 2: very respected and everyone in my town knew my moment dad.

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Speaker 2: A number of people have asked me this question, what

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Speaker 2: kind of daily life look like in North Korea? You

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Speaker 2: actually don't realize what can society live, especially constier like

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Speaker 2: North Korea. You have the complete information blockade. Both from

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Speaker 2: inside and outside. Literally, we didn't know what outside it

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Speaker 2: looks like. Not news, not entertainment, and not drama, song films.

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Speaker 2: You can watch anything from outside and no fond no

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Speaker 2: internet obviously. I remember we went to nursery every day

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Speaker 2: before we had to learnch We were asked to give

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Speaker 2: thanks to the King, vailable what we were able to eat.

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Speaker 2: You are only allowed to wear certain clothes, certain hackats

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Speaker 2: in North Korea. If there is a fire, the emergency

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Speaker 2: team arrives, but the first thing they do, they do

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Speaker 2: not rescue the family members, but they rescue Kim family

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Speaker 2: portraits pictures. North Korea later banned quite many international historical

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Speaker 2: events that change the course of the world. North Korea

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Speaker 2: even destroyed all the classical musics and they only allow

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Speaker 2: national folk songs just purely, not even traditional Korean songs,

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Speaker 2: but most of the modern Korean song. It must contain

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Speaker 2: Kim family itself inside every song. I wash the king

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Speaker 2: family for seventeen years until I escaped this country. But

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Speaker 2: I did also believe that January Kims were my God.

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00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:10,417
Speaker 2: It was difficult time. Millions of family who were going

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Speaker 2: through starvation and start to death, and when you cannot

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Speaker 2: even feed your children. How you could take care of

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Speaker 2: the extra family, I couldn't understand. And I mean, but

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00:14:25,097 --> 00:14:28,617
Speaker 2: the day you had breakfast with them, but you have

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Speaker 2: that feeling and not feeling right. Something was going on

237
00:14:33,177 --> 00:14:37,577
Speaker 2: and you couldn't focus on school anything. So you decide

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Speaker 2: to go home and come home, open the door and

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00:14:40,297 --> 00:14:44,177
Speaker 2: you just enter your house and you could tell the

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Speaker 2: very night and clean and tide the house, but the

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00:14:48,097 --> 00:14:53,257
Speaker 2: feeling inside the house was completely emptiness and frozen, and

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00:14:53,337 --> 00:14:57,697
Speaker 2: you couldn't have that instinct, oh they were gone, So

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00:14:57,817 --> 00:15:02,097
Speaker 2: that you run to the station where I saw the

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00:15:02,177 --> 00:15:07,057
Speaker 2: tale of the trend was going disappearing, and sat down

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00:15:07,137 --> 00:15:11,657
Speaker 2: and cried and come home, you know, withholding parents clothes

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00:15:11,697 --> 00:15:15,977
Speaker 2: and cry and cry. And of course that was one

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Speaker 2: of the changing course of my life which still shapes

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Speaker 2: in many ways. And of course you have lived anger

249
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Speaker 2: and hatred for years, and you do also understand today

250
00:15:28,937 --> 00:15:33,897
Speaker 2: they had another choice to make something very difficult decisions.

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Speaker 2: If they didn't choose that path, probably whole family could

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Speaker 2: have been taken to a prison camp, or we may

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00:15:43,617 --> 00:15:48,057
Speaker 2: hold now survived. If I go back to those days,

254
00:15:48,297 --> 00:15:53,977
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was hope about. I was living

255
00:15:54,097 --> 00:15:58,577
Speaker 2: through fear, something that you couldn't expect, what might can't

256
00:15:58,697 --> 00:16:03,177
Speaker 2: happen next day. You sleep at the stations and in

257
00:16:03,297 --> 00:16:08,137
Speaker 2: train containers. From town to town. You travel just holding

258
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Speaker 2: on to tail of the trains because you don't have tickets,

259
00:16:11,657 --> 00:16:14,297
Speaker 2: where you couldn't get on the train properly, or on

260
00:16:14,377 --> 00:16:18,097
Speaker 2: top of the train. You're hanging there. Until I was

261
00:16:18,177 --> 00:16:21,577
Speaker 2: able to go and live with my grandmother, and which

262
00:16:21,577 --> 00:16:23,417
Speaker 2: she was very kind. I still think she was one

263
00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:29,897
Speaker 2: of my angels. Took me in. I remember a number

264
00:16:29,897 --> 00:16:33,257
Speaker 2: of times standing at the school gate and watching all

265
00:16:33,257 --> 00:16:36,457
Speaker 2: the kids go to school. They called me enemy class

266
00:16:36,497 --> 00:16:40,457
Speaker 2: after my parents escape, which the first thing I noticed

267
00:16:40,617 --> 00:16:43,097
Speaker 2: was I couldn't go to school from age ten, so

268
00:16:43,177 --> 00:16:46,777
Speaker 2: I was illiterated in North Korea, and I loved to read.

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00:16:47,337 --> 00:16:53,497
Speaker 2: I practiced the Korean language. I was often on the

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Speaker 2: floor with the stick. We didn't have enough pens and

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Speaker 2: books either. By age seventeen, now you are about thinking

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00:17:01,617 --> 00:17:06,057
Speaker 2: of your independent life. And all my friends I saw

273
00:17:06,177 --> 00:17:10,137
Speaker 2: them were joining the army. In North Korea. Every man

274
00:17:10,217 --> 00:17:13,617
Speaker 2: has to join DAMI, which is composer for ten years,

275
00:17:14,137 --> 00:17:16,697
Speaker 2: and I went to the military office. I really wanted

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00:17:16,697 --> 00:17:18,897
Speaker 2: to join the army, so that I could get on

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00:17:18,937 --> 00:17:22,497
Speaker 2: my independent life and this military office. He told me,

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Speaker 2: your father betrayed this country. You cannot join the army,

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Speaker 2: and he was so frustrating me, and I told him,

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00:17:28,817 --> 00:17:32,417
Speaker 2: you know, I would work hard paper my father's crime.

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00:17:32,537 --> 00:17:34,817
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what his crime was, the only

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00:17:34,857 --> 00:17:39,696
Speaker 2: thing he did he escaped the country. And so I

283
00:17:39,817 --> 00:17:42,817
Speaker 2: was told to go to coal mine. This coal mine,

284
00:17:42,817 --> 00:17:45,657
Speaker 2: often you have to crawl into the cave, and did

285
00:17:45,817 --> 00:17:50,217
Speaker 2: curls up. But most other enemy class children usually being

286
00:17:50,297 --> 00:17:53,617
Speaker 2: sent to these coal mines, and of the mines collapsed

287
00:17:53,697 --> 00:17:58,137
Speaker 2: and legs and arms are amputated or some of them killed.

288
00:17:59,097 --> 00:18:03,297
Speaker 2: And that moment I made decision. I was going to

289
00:18:03,657 --> 00:18:07,097
Speaker 2: leave this country. Despite I had no idea what outside

290
00:18:07,137 --> 00:18:09,736
Speaker 2: it would look like, but I was already thinking of

291
00:18:09,857 --> 00:18:17,137
Speaker 2: this future. So crossing the border to another country, the

292
00:18:17,297 --> 00:18:21,537
Speaker 2: border between North and South, it's the most heavily militarized zone.

293
00:18:22,137 --> 00:18:25,777
Speaker 2: Are millions of landomines, so it is impossible to cross

294
00:18:25,817 --> 00:18:29,976
Speaker 2: that border. Most of us we choose across the Tuman

295
00:18:30,257 --> 00:18:34,017
Speaker 2: River between North and China. It's very dangerous. You could

296
00:18:34,097 --> 00:18:37,736
Speaker 2: be killed, rested, so you just have to risk. And

297
00:18:37,817 --> 00:18:40,697
Speaker 2: I remember that my first escape it didn't take us

298
00:18:40,737 --> 00:18:43,337
Speaker 2: long and we would looking at a nighttime for people,

299
00:18:43,857 --> 00:18:47,137
Speaker 2: and we were in a same group and we walked.

300
00:18:47,737 --> 00:18:50,417
Speaker 2: It took us only half an hour to reach China.

301
00:18:50,457 --> 00:18:53,256
Speaker 2: And now you continue on your journey. And China is

302
00:18:53,297 --> 00:18:57,057
Speaker 2: not safe for North Korean escapes. We don't have passport.

303
00:18:57,177 --> 00:19:00,057
Speaker 2: We are born with our passport. We are not meant

304
00:19:00,057 --> 00:19:04,216
Speaker 2: to leave the country. And so my journey did not

305
00:19:04,377 --> 00:19:07,736
Speaker 2: go well. The bird the journey, we were eighteen of

306
00:19:07,897 --> 00:19:13,617
Speaker 2: us arrested at the Mongolian border, and there were even

307
00:19:13,697 --> 00:19:18,257
Speaker 2: children in my career, and we were arrested by Chinese

308
00:19:18,337 --> 00:19:23,897
Speaker 2: military and sent to a military prison, to another prison,

309
00:19:24,577 --> 00:19:30,337
Speaker 2: another prison, and eventually we were sent back to North Korea.

310
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Speaker 2: He was underground and I still remember how many cells.

311
00:19:35,417 --> 00:19:39,817
Speaker 2: There were several cells, and each cell had a flow inmate,

312
00:19:40,377 --> 00:19:43,617
Speaker 2: and we were given no names from that moment. We

313
00:19:43,617 --> 00:19:48,537
Speaker 2: were given specific numbers, prison numbers, nuclear hear man and

314
00:19:48,617 --> 00:19:56,417
Speaker 2: women being tortured screaming, and I was myself was there

315
00:19:57,137 --> 00:20:02,657
Speaker 2: being treated terribly, which I couldn't even walk properly. I

316
00:20:02,697 --> 00:20:05,936
Speaker 2: didn't expect I was able to survive from there. But

317
00:20:06,017 --> 00:20:07,857
Speaker 2: when they told me that they would have sent me

318
00:20:07,977 --> 00:20:12,617
Speaker 2: to my grandmother's house. I really doubted and I didn't

319
00:20:12,697 --> 00:20:16,456
Speaker 2: know why and how it happened because I was the

320
00:20:16,497 --> 00:20:20,777
Speaker 2: only one who was released. They were so eager to

321
00:20:20,817 --> 00:20:24,297
Speaker 2: try to find out who helped you to get older

322
00:20:24,297 --> 00:20:28,337
Speaker 2: with the Mongolian boulder, and they are very desperate to

323
00:20:28,377 --> 00:20:32,337
Speaker 2: find out these resources and sources of brokers. Once they

324
00:20:32,377 --> 00:20:35,976
Speaker 2: know who are helping it, they send secreation to assassinate them.

325
00:20:36,497 --> 00:20:41,817
Speaker 2: And I asked my grandmother helped me to escape second time.

326
00:20:48,777 --> 00:20:52,657
Speaker 2: So my grandmother found someone, this lady helping me across

327
00:20:52,657 --> 00:20:56,696
Speaker 2: the border second time, but I couldn't walk properly and

328
00:20:56,897 --> 00:21:01,857
Speaker 2: that time and I was holding the plastic containers floating

329
00:21:01,897 --> 00:21:05,377
Speaker 2: on the river and she started to drag me. From

330
00:21:05,417 --> 00:21:09,137
Speaker 2: the start, the water was very deep. I was drawn

331
00:21:09,177 --> 00:21:13,217
Speaker 2: into water a few times and this lady was keep

332
00:21:13,297 --> 00:21:16,857
Speaker 2: hitting back of my head. And you got to survive,

333
00:21:17,777 --> 00:21:22,737
Speaker 2: and thankfully we managed arrived in China safely, and it

334
00:21:22,937 --> 00:21:27,377
Speaker 2: took us over two hours. And the house we knock

335
00:21:27,457 --> 00:21:31,137
Speaker 2: on and door in China, it was a stranger's door.

336
00:21:32,537 --> 00:21:36,017
Speaker 2: They could do simply report us to Chinese police. Then

337
00:21:36,097 --> 00:21:39,777
Speaker 2: you would get a ransom from the police when they

338
00:21:39,777 --> 00:21:44,337
Speaker 2: saw we were completely soft, just across the border. This

339
00:21:44,537 --> 00:21:50,617
Speaker 2: lady and stranger providing us food, blankets, cloth and telephone,

340
00:21:51,297 --> 00:21:55,736
Speaker 2: where I was able to continue my journey. From there,

341
00:21:56,297 --> 00:22:01,177
Speaker 2: I met eight North Korean refuses and together we traveled

342
00:22:01,457 --> 00:22:06,577
Speaker 2: and arrived in Shanghai and the school where we thought

343
00:22:06,817 --> 00:22:11,137
Speaker 2: could help us, and these primary school kids were panicking

344
00:22:11,137 --> 00:22:14,777
Speaker 2: when we entered it and they never experienced this before.

345
00:22:14,897 --> 00:22:18,457
Speaker 2: Probably we had the papers said and we're in North

346
00:22:18,497 --> 00:22:23,777
Speaker 2: kroent refugees, please help us. The school authorities manage the

347
00:22:23,857 --> 00:22:28,297
Speaker 2: two courts someone and then came back to us. Unfortunately,

348
00:22:28,337 --> 00:22:33,017
Speaker 2: this school is enough for diplomatic mission purpose anything that

349
00:22:33,057 --> 00:22:37,016
Speaker 2: they could help. Therefore, we would have been passed on

350
00:22:37,057 --> 00:22:43,297
Speaker 2: to Chinese police and we ended up in Shanghai International Prison.

351
00:22:44,017 --> 00:22:47,937
Speaker 2: I was still seventeen and that was my fourth imprisonment

352
00:22:49,017 --> 00:22:52,857
Speaker 2: and I was expecting now going back to North Korea

353
00:22:53,257 --> 00:22:57,137
Speaker 2: second time. I was crying every night that I'm thinking

354
00:22:57,697 --> 00:23:00,937
Speaker 2: that I was going back to North Korea. And one

355
00:23:00,977 --> 00:23:04,017
Speaker 2: guy came to one of my inmates, and I was

356
00:23:04,097 --> 00:23:06,696
Speaker 2: really surprised when he came to me. Spoke in Korea,

357
00:23:07,537 --> 00:23:10,016
Speaker 2: and he asked me why I was crying, and so

358
00:23:10,097 --> 00:23:13,857
Speaker 2: I shared my story and he was sharing my situation

359
00:23:14,017 --> 00:23:16,657
Speaker 2: with all these men. They were all sat there and

360
00:23:17,017 --> 00:23:21,737
Speaker 2: listened to me very carefully, and after hearing my situation,

361
00:23:21,817 --> 00:23:24,417
Speaker 2: they all said, we're going to start pray for you.

362
00:23:25,257 --> 00:23:29,937
Speaker 2: And this South Korean guy who told me after hearing

363
00:23:30,057 --> 00:23:34,337
Speaker 2: my situation, he brought something with him and that was

364
00:23:34,377 --> 00:23:37,977
Speaker 2: a Bible, and I told him, I watch the King

365
00:23:38,097 --> 00:23:41,697
Speaker 2: family for seventeen years. Now you're telling me to pray

366
00:23:41,817 --> 00:23:46,617
Speaker 2: to God someone I don't even know. It didn't take

367
00:23:46,777 --> 00:23:50,617
Speaker 2: long to pray to God because there was nothing else

368
00:23:50,697 --> 00:23:55,177
Speaker 2: I could do in this prisoner and I prayed many

369
00:23:55,217 --> 00:24:00,217
Speaker 2: times a day, but every time I was praying, that

370
00:24:00,457 --> 00:24:05,497
Speaker 2: was going into tears, and in tears I was fine

371
00:24:05,657 --> 00:24:09,817
Speaker 2: in peace and comfort. He realized that was your faith,

372
00:24:10,977 --> 00:24:15,737
Speaker 2: and that faith holding it don't want to fall love.

373
00:24:16,377 --> 00:24:20,337
Speaker 2: That felt me like I was holding the rope. But

374
00:24:20,377 --> 00:24:23,857
Speaker 2: when he fell off from the rope, death was there

375
00:24:25,657 --> 00:24:31,976
Speaker 2: and more pray. I'm more going into seeking, and then

376
00:24:32,537 --> 00:24:38,897
Speaker 2: they were slowly bringing in the feeling of hope. In

377
00:24:38,977 --> 00:24:44,696
Speaker 2: the darkest moment, I was seeking for survival when God

378
00:24:44,937 --> 00:24:52,017
Speaker 2: was holding onto my hope, comfort, peace, And that's what

379
00:24:52,177 --> 00:24:56,617
Speaker 2: I asked him. God, if you all there, you're really there.

380
00:24:57,217 --> 00:25:01,897
Speaker 2: You give me freedom. Then in return, I give my

381
00:25:01,977 --> 00:25:15,337
Speaker 2: life to you. When two men visited me in the prison,

382
00:25:15,617 --> 00:25:19,857
Speaker 2: I thought they were taking back to North Korea. Outside

383
00:25:19,897 --> 00:25:25,137
Speaker 2: the prison, they were two diplomats and they said to me, Timothy,

384
00:25:25,457 --> 00:25:30,017
Speaker 2: you got very surprising news. Chinese government made an easier

385
00:25:30,097 --> 00:25:33,417
Speaker 2: decision to deport you and your group to the Philippines

386
00:25:33,937 --> 00:25:39,577
Speaker 2: with diplomatic passport. The plomatic passport is only for prison

387
00:25:39,657 --> 00:25:44,417
Speaker 2: exchange with diplomats or spies and all important people. We

388
00:25:44,417 --> 00:25:48,657
Speaker 2: were not one of the school kids from the American school,

389
00:25:49,297 --> 00:25:53,137
Speaker 2: thirteen year old a girl. She emailed to a journalist.

390
00:25:53,777 --> 00:25:56,657
Speaker 2: They didn't know what to do because we were forcibly

391
00:25:56,817 --> 00:26:02,097
Speaker 2: dragged out, and she asked the journalists they were standing

392
00:26:02,137 --> 00:26:05,177
Speaker 2: and watching them in tears only and powerless. We can't

393
00:26:05,217 --> 00:26:08,936
Speaker 2: any produced something for them, otherwise they would be killed.

394
00:26:09,577 --> 00:26:13,137
Speaker 2: The journalist received that email and got a statement from

395
00:26:13,137 --> 00:26:18,137
Speaker 2: the school and then reached out CNN, the Washington Post,

396
00:26:18,537 --> 00:26:23,857
Speaker 2: and the BBC in the news wave of campaigns started

397
00:26:24,497 --> 00:26:26,657
Speaker 2: and urged it to China to not send them back

398
00:26:26,697 --> 00:26:30,897
Speaker 2: to North Korea. Jesus went into that little girl's heart.

399
00:26:31,857 --> 00:26:36,137
Speaker 2: Simply what her heart prompted, she acted, and all of

400
00:26:36,137 --> 00:26:41,297
Speaker 2: this happened when I knelt before God in the darkest prisons.

401
00:26:42,377 --> 00:26:45,776
Speaker 2: It's been almost twenty years now since I escaped, and

402
00:26:45,857 --> 00:26:48,777
Speaker 2: more than half of my life now is even outside

403
00:26:48,817 --> 00:26:52,897
Speaker 2: in North Korea. But I never forget this picture of

404
00:26:52,977 --> 00:26:59,137
Speaker 2: that first time I saw fully market, the city, the

405
00:26:59,217 --> 00:27:02,297
Speaker 2: market as soon as arrived there, and you could see

406
00:27:03,017 --> 00:27:08,857
Speaker 2: that picture of it was completely different picture. Light was

407
00:27:09,017 --> 00:27:14,777
Speaker 2: quite shine around, obviously North Korea don't have a light electricity.

408
00:27:15,497 --> 00:27:21,257
Speaker 2: And the first picture it came to was people's hair colors.

409
00:27:21,537 --> 00:27:26,776
Speaker 2: That was something I never forget. They're all kinds of

410
00:27:27,177 --> 00:27:33,577
Speaker 2: hair colors and haircuts and all different way of fashion designs.

411
00:27:34,417 --> 00:27:39,297
Speaker 2: Young people wearing jacket jumpers are written English worlds, and

412
00:27:39,417 --> 00:27:43,857
Speaker 2: jeans some jeans with many holes, and delicious food on

413
00:27:43,897 --> 00:27:47,457
Speaker 2: the market, and that moment I was crying standing there.

414
00:27:47,977 --> 00:27:50,537
Speaker 2: If my children were born in North Korea, my children

415
00:27:50,577 --> 00:27:55,137
Speaker 2: would be born with enemy class attack and so on,

416
00:27:55,177 --> 00:27:59,257
Speaker 2: our traitors. They would be discriminated from the day they

417
00:27:59,257 --> 00:28:06,016
Speaker 2: were born. That was my brave I'm scary, but I

418
00:28:06,057 --> 00:28:09,657
Speaker 2: still think it was a right decision. Or if God

419
00:28:10,017 --> 00:28:13,736
Speaker 2: already knew that he was encouraging me to live and

420
00:28:13,817 --> 00:28:22,177
Speaker 2: seeking different paths of my journey. I arrived in the

421
00:28:22,257 --> 00:28:28,297
Speaker 2: UK in two thousand and eight, arriving in a democratic frequentry.

422
00:28:28,337 --> 00:28:31,857
Speaker 2: I thought it was the end, which I didn't realize

423
00:28:31,857 --> 00:28:35,817
Speaker 2: it was the beginning of another part of the journey. Obviously,

424
00:28:35,817 --> 00:28:38,897
Speaker 2: I was able to go to school, learn English, and

425
00:28:38,977 --> 00:28:43,857
Speaker 2: I went to universities studied in politics. Yet what I

426
00:28:43,937 --> 00:28:48,337
Speaker 2: didn't like all was my past. And the past was

427
00:28:48,497 --> 00:28:52,937
Speaker 2: powerfully coming to me. I was living within this past

428
00:28:53,057 --> 00:28:58,057
Speaker 2: of anger, hatred and trauma was bounding me and pushing

429
00:28:58,057 --> 00:29:00,617
Speaker 2: me to the corner. So I went back to my

430
00:29:00,817 --> 00:29:04,217
Speaker 2: church and I declared those who I was holding me

431
00:29:04,857 --> 00:29:10,297
Speaker 2: with anger hatred, I forgive the name of Jesus. And

432
00:29:10,337 --> 00:29:16,577
Speaker 2: you could feel something was opening, eyes opening, heart opening

433
00:29:17,057 --> 00:29:21,537
Speaker 2: and energy brings back and I was able to fight back.

434
00:29:22,297 --> 00:29:24,497
Speaker 2: I was able to fight bat against that the wave

435
00:29:24,617 --> 00:29:30,617
Speaker 2: of darkness and trauma. In my desperate screaming out and tears,

436
00:29:31,257 --> 00:29:35,137
Speaker 2: I was keep hearing something, son, I love you, I

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Speaker 2: love you, I love you. Jesus has gone through multi

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Speaker 2: worse persecution and torture and pain, and he transformed me

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00:29:50,457 --> 00:29:55,217
Speaker 2: into a man of a father of two children today

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00:29:56,497 --> 00:30:00,697
Speaker 2: and to become human rights activists and to learn how

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Speaker 2: to keep the humility, serving and caring for others. We

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00:30:06,057 --> 00:30:09,377
Speaker 2: are facing through a lot of hatred in this world

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Speaker 2: at the moment, but hatred never champion. Only love can

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Speaker 2: overcome all of this hatred. And there is a beautiful place,

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00:30:20,097 --> 00:30:23,417
Speaker 2: the home will be waiting for us, the place no

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00:30:23,537 --> 00:30:29,057
Speaker 2: longer suffering persecution, trauma and anger, hatred. Until then, we're

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00:30:29,297 --> 00:30:33,857
Speaker 2: called to live by faith, but to fight good. Fight.

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Speaker 1: To keep up with Timothy's work as a human rights defender,

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00:30:39,497 --> 00:30:42,417
Speaker 1: follow him on social media and join us and praying

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00:30:42,457 --> 00:30:45,377
Speaker 1: for his continued protection. If you'd like to hear more

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Speaker 1: stories about freedom that can be found in Christ, check

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Speaker 1: out our interview with Saintoya Brown mong Next time on

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Speaker 1: the Jesus Calling Podcast, we'll hear from comedian Heatherland. In

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Speaker 1: this deeply personal episode, Heather reveals how she grew up

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00:31:03,457 --> 00:31:06,497
Speaker 1: as an only child in West Tennessee with a mother

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00:31:06,617 --> 00:31:08,697
Speaker 1: struggling with prescription drug addiction.

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00:31:09,857 --> 00:31:14,017
Speaker 4: I just remember before she became addicted, she has a

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Speaker 4: lot of fun, She had a lot of friends, We

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00:31:16,777 --> 00:31:19,497
Speaker 4: did a lot of fun things together. She was a

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00:31:19,497 --> 00:31:23,097
Speaker 4: wonderful mom. And I remember when she became addicted, and

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00:31:23,137 --> 00:31:27,337
Speaker 4: as that addiction grew, she was very absent, not present.

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00:31:28,137 --> 00:31:32,577
Speaker 4: I just remember mostly she was angry, and I just

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00:31:32,777 --> 00:31:37,697
Speaker 4: was always nervous and I didn't know how to navigate it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith

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00:31:46,777 --> 00:31:50,617
Speaker 1: podcast on the Life Audio Network. Every week, we'll bring

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00:31:50,657 --> 00:31:53,217
Speaker 1: you stories from people who share their journeys of faith

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00:31:53,577 --> 00:31:57,257
Speaker 1: and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives.

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00:31:58,057 --> 00:32:01,417
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or

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00:32:01,457 --> 00:32:04,737
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave us a review

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00:32:04,817 --> 00:32:09,017
Speaker 1: so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally,

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Speaker 1: you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus

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Speaker 1: Calling website at Jesus Calling dot com