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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: What happens when the future you imagine quietly disappears, not

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Speaker 2: because you made a mistake or you lacked faith, but

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Speaker 2: because life simply turns. At age twenty five, Tim Timmins

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Speaker 2: was diagnosed with incurable cancer. But it isn't just his story.

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Speaker 2: It's also Hillary's, his wife. It's the story of a

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Speaker 2: young couple who had to decide together whether faith would

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Speaker 2: be something they performed or something they actually lived. Hi, friends,

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Speaker 2: I'm Jem Faddling and this is the Unhurried Living Podcast,

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Speaker 2: where we inspire you to rest deeper, live fuller, and

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Speaker 2: lead better. The Timmins new book, Waking Up Again, isn't

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Speaker 2: about cancer. It's about waking up to the gift of

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Speaker 2: today and to grief and to gratitude, sharing the same

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Speaker 2: space and walking with Jesus in the ten thousand minutes

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Speaker 2: of an ordinary week. Today, we're talking about what it

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Speaker 2: means to live a way together. After a word from

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Speaker 2: our sponsor, will dive into our conversation for today. Today,

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by Tim and Hillary Timmins. Tim is a

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Speaker 2: Grammy nominated singer, songwriter, and worship leader whose life has

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Speaker 2: been shaped by more than two decades of living with

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Speaker 2: an incurable cancer diagnosis. But what makes this story compelling

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Speaker 2: is not just perseverance, it's also perspective. Together, Tim and

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Speaker 2: Hillary have chosen to live what they call an experiment

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Speaker 2: in joining Jesus in both the mundane and extraordinary moments

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Speaker 2: of life. Tim also founded ten Thousand Minutes, a nonprofit

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Speaker 2: and podcast built on the conviction that following Jesus isn't

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Speaker 2: confined to Sunday gatherings, but lived out in the ten

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Speaker 2: thousand minutes of the week beyond them. In their new book,

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Speaker 2: Waking Up Again, they invite us into a life that

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Speaker 2: is not primarily about enduring hardship, but about discovering the

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Speaker 2: nearness of God within it. It's about grief and gratitude,

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Speaker 2: humor and honesty, and waking up each day to the

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Speaker 2: presence of Jesus even when the future feels fragile. I'm

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Speaker 2: so grateful for Tim and Hillary, and I know you'll

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Speaker 2: enjoy our conversation.

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Speaker 1: Him and Hillary, thank you so much for saying yes,

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Speaker 1: it's so good to see both of your faces.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well you said twenty bucks, so I felt like

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Speaker 3: this is right. Yeah, can you yeah, be great. No,

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Speaker 3: We're so honored. We are such huge paddling fans. This

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Speaker 3: is the easiest one. We'll do.

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Speaker 1: Yep, thank you. Well, I will do my best be

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Speaker 1: a good interviewer and to be fun and engaging. Shall

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Speaker 1: we try that?

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Speaker 3: It better be great. That's what I'm frying, is like

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Speaker 3: this better be the best.

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Speaker 4: Better be so good.

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Speaker 1: Well, I did actually get you on here because I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about your book, but I have to

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Speaker 1: stop off at the movie first because Alan and I

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Speaker 1: just saw it a week and a half ago and

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Speaker 1: we falled. You remember Alan, he's six foot three, he's a

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Speaker 1: big guy. He had his handkerchief out. Oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: it was so good, so good The Father's Love and

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Speaker 1: so maybe just a couple questions here about the movie.

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Speaker 5: You know, what was that like?

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Speaker 1: Have your life represented? You know? I saw you once.

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Speaker 1: I watched one video tim of you on Instagram. Then

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Speaker 1: it just kept putting you. First, I saw everything because

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Speaker 1: it kept saying here's where turn is now and look.

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Speaker 3: So sorry.

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Speaker 1: So no, that was very cool. And then of course

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Speaker 1: you have to tell me about mylevent Amelia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, Milo is the coolest human

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Speaker 3: you know, they don't meet your heroes, but he's the

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Speaker 3: guy you're like, I want to meet that guy. So

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Speaker 3: he's from Orange, like from where we're from. And his

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Speaker 3: mom's name is Carol. My mom's name is Carrot. We

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Speaker 3: just we have two older sisters. He's just really sweet,

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Speaker 3: generous guy who acts like the way of Jesus. It's

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Speaker 3: it's really fascinating for a non Jesus follower. He acts

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Speaker 3: like the heart of Jesus more than most Christians I know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's really bizarre. Jem and so I've learned

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Speaker 3: so much from him and we just we love he

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Speaker 3: and his wife and that's been really beautiful, really a

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Speaker 3: beautiful relationship.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, well I actually saw him on something because again,

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Speaker 1: once they started throwing all the videos that made that,

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Speaker 1: I started seeing them. My love millions. Sorry, he was

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Speaker 1: has just a glorious review of you as a human being.

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Speaker 1: He just thought you were so and so much like

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Speaker 1: I could tell that there was a real connection made

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Speaker 1: for this.

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Speaker 3: Very cool, so cool.

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Speaker 6: Definitely a lifelong friendship for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still out here in California yea.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. So they're home burned in the

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Speaker 3: fires in the mallet the fires. So my first time

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Speaker 3: I ever talked to him. We're on FaceTime together, and

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Speaker 3: about forty five minutes in, all of a sudden, he's like,

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Speaker 3: uh oh, I'm like what. He turned the iPad around

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Speaker 3: and you could see in the backyard you could see

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Speaker 3: the plumes of smoke, you know. Reminded me of the

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Speaker 3: old Laguna days, you know. And so he within minutes left,

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Speaker 3: got out of there, got the dog, got his wife

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Speaker 3: was you know, eight months pregnant, and then their house

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Speaker 3: burned and minutes It was just so sad. So even

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Speaker 3: in the movie how he's talking about being in the

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Speaker 3: fire and God is with us in the fire and

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Speaker 3: like that was really emotional for him to actually talk

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Speaker 3: about it was really special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there were so many beautiful moments in the movie.

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Speaker 1: What did it feel like to have your life praid?

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Speaker 1: I could tell obviously they took our license not awesome,

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Speaker 1: but the story, right, the story still came through. What

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Speaker 1: does it feel like to see that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was such an amazing experience, even to We've

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Speaker 4: got to be on the set quite a bit as

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Speaker 4: they filmed the different scenes of our lives, so to

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Speaker 4: revisit an earlier part of our life, especially one that

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Speaker 4: was really difficult, and to have these people portraying us

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Speaker 4: and doing it so just they were so honoring to us,

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Speaker 4: and it was such a reflective, kind of almost meditative

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Speaker 4: experience to see your life playing out in front of you.

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Speaker 4: You know, that was such a season of spiritual wrestling

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Speaker 4: for me. So it kind of brought up all those

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Speaker 4: themes again. And I think recognizing to where God has

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Speaker 4: walked us since then was such a beautiful thing to

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Speaker 4: kind of sit in. And then I know for Tim

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Speaker 4: getting to see some of those those thickness scenes and

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Speaker 4: you know, viewing yourself from outside of yourself and kind

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Speaker 4: of grieving. You know, I think seeing it portrayed was

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Speaker 4: a whole different experience than living it obviously too, so

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Speaker 4: there were layers of almost grieving.

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Speaker 3: I think you did grieving an empathy, and I mean

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Speaker 3: it's the therapeutic tactic of hey, there's a chair over here,

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Speaker 3: put yourself in that chair. How does that person feel?

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Speaker 3: How does little timmy feel in this moment? You know,

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Speaker 3: it was like a real life experiment with that, and

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Speaker 3: we got to actually live that. I mean, I wish

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Speaker 3: everybody could have that experience, and that's why therapy does

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Speaker 3: it like that. But it was so profound. I had

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Speaker 3: an empathy for myself that I've never had before because

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Speaker 3: all of us, like everybody who's gone through things, everybody

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Speaker 3: who's listening when you're going through something hard, you're just

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Speaker 3: like we're pushing through and we're like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I got to wake up again today, and but to

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Speaker 3: sit back and go, oh man, from the outside, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: this day sucks, you know. I mean it was really

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Speaker 3: really profound.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like being able to then shift self compassion.

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Speaker 1: It's sometimes it's easier for someone else and apply God's

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Speaker 1: grace to them or to have compassion, but it's harder

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Speaker 1: to myself sometimes, but to see yourself out there then

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Speaker 1: oh look at him, that's that's really hard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was lonely or that was like I remember

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Speaker 3: your makes emotional, like you were worrying about these things

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Speaker 3: to him, like I remember the things you were holding

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Speaker 3: at those moments, you know, like, that's that's really really

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Speaker 3: a huge gift.

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Speaker 1: I remember so many times referring back to Instagram, you know,

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Speaker 1: you would be posting live from the hospital in the

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Speaker 1: last years about when you have different issues. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to say them here, but you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yea, because she was a good look I'm

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Speaker 3: too good looking, and it's kind of like pull it back.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, just the real life ups and

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Speaker 1: downs and pines going way for low of these twenty

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Speaker 1: five years. I realized I didn't realize that the diagnosis

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Speaker 1: came when you were twenty five and just fifty after life?

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Speaker 1: Is that crazy?

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Speaker 3: It is?

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we could pivot. You know, we've talked,

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Speaker 1: I can talk about the movie. I have to have

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Speaker 1: you back. We'll talk about the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I did want to actually talk about your book because

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Speaker 1: how amazing that you got to write a book together

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Speaker 1: and to hear both of your voices, and so I

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Speaker 1: do want to in case there are some people out

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Speaker 1: there who a little bit of the background, you know,

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Speaker 1: take us back when the first when the diagnosis came,

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Speaker 1: you're twenty five. Yeah, incurable cancer. We're leading, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not bearing the lead here. What was going on

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Speaker 1: inside of twenty five years, maybe individually and as a couple.

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Speaker 3: What was happening mm hmm yeah, yeah, they said you

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Speaker 3: got five years to live and stage four. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was just this wild thing when all of us,

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Speaker 3: I was just speaking to college students just this morning,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I'm talking about waking up again, this idea,

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Speaker 3: this concept, and I'm thinking when I was in college,

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Speaker 3: it was like, yeah, okay, buddy, all right, dude, I

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Speaker 3: get the rest of my life. This is every day.

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Speaker 3: This is like guaranteed. And so that's how we felt

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Speaker 3: at twenty five. And then when it's like, well maybe not,

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Speaker 3: I think, man, not really, that was the most sobering moment.

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Speaker 3: I think death and major sorrow is the gift of

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Speaker 3: it is sobriety of just what's important what's not. It's

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Speaker 3: like almost getting hit in a car crash and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden you swerve out and you're like, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, oh my gosh, god, thank you, I have

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Speaker 3: another day. I mean, it's that kind of like profound

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Speaker 3: gift that I think is what I get to I

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Speaker 3: get to experience every day in some way, and just

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Speaker 3: that's kind of why I write this X in my

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Speaker 3: wrist every morning, like I got another day. It's not promised.

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Speaker 3: So I think at twenty five, man, that was the

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Speaker 3: most sobering moment for us. And then first year we're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna Jesus, You're gonna heal me, and

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Speaker 3: let's go Jesus watch or people watch what Jesus does.

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Speaker 3: And then year one and I'm now in surgery, I'm

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Speaker 3: still not healed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think that's where my wrestle comes in,

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Speaker 4: because you know, growing up in the church, you're taught

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Speaker 4: pray by faith and you'll be healed, and we just

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Speaker 4: kind of took that as like the step by step

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Speaker 4: instruction for what to do, and we would just believe

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Speaker 4: that he'd be healed. And so as the years continued,

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Speaker 4: my wrestle started because then you have to you have

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Speaker 4: to answer the questions of okay, if not, then what

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Speaker 4: and are you still good?

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Speaker 2: God?

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Speaker 6: Like why?

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Speaker 5: I think it.

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Speaker 4: Opens up that the age old questions of why they're

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Speaker 4: just suffering? Why does God allow that? Why does why

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Speaker 4: did he think creating a world where this was our

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Speaker 4: reality might be worth it? And so I wrestled I

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Speaker 4: think a lot more than Tim did with some of

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Speaker 4: those more like theological issues, but it was very real

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Speaker 4: and up against my actual relationship with God because they

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Speaker 4: were these big questions that impacted how saved he felt,

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Speaker 4: how good he felt, and so I had to really

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Speaker 4: struggle through and I think he I mean, what we

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Speaker 4: ultimately came away with of being able or having to

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Speaker 4: hold this is our reality. It's not going to resolve

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Speaker 4: the way that we hoped it would, but He is

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Speaker 4: with us in a way. I think we started to

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Speaker 4: get to know Jesus in a way we could not

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Speaker 4: otherwise have experienced him, you know, in the darkness, in

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Speaker 4: the sorrow, you know, in our uncertainty, in our fear.

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Speaker 4: There just is a depth of relationship that you don't

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Speaker 4: get to until you come up against some of those

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Speaker 4: kinds of things. And we never thought we would be

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Speaker 4: able to say the cancer diagnosis was worth it. And

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Speaker 4: several years in we we both said we wouldn't give

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Speaker 4: this up because of who God shaped us to be

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Speaker 4: through it and how we know Him is shaping us. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: continually shaping us. But and that's not we don't say

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Speaker 4: that lightly that we wouldn't give up answer.

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Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, and we've been given the gift of time.

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Speaker 4: So, like you said, it's been twenty five years and.

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Speaker 6: So so grateful for that.

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Speaker 4: Even though there isn't a healing, we have had this

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Speaker 4: season of time.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't give it up.

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Speaker 3: In the movie, there's there are two parts that I

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Speaker 3: A few parts I just just cry. I seen it

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Speaker 3: eight hundred and fifty million thouars and good jillion times,

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Speaker 3: but every time. So there's a scene where Hillary and

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Speaker 3: I you kind of see both of us interact by

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Speaker 3: our car, and I go to write an X on

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Speaker 3: her wrist, you know, which is my thing, and she's like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not ready for that yet. That makes me emotional

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Speaker 3: every time. So like I remember those days of her

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Speaker 3: being like, nop, I love you, but I'm not ready

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Speaker 3: for that. And then when she writes it on her

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Speaker 3: wrist while I'm in the hospital, I mean, that was

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Speaker 3: just so emotional to see who God has created in

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Speaker 3: us and it is creating us to be in the season.

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Speaker 3: So that is just so profound and beautiful to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I caught those moments too. I was wondering, was

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Speaker 1: that the way it happened? Was there a conversation between

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Speaker 1: the two of you, and did you say I'm not ready?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 4: And I actually, in real life have never written the

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Speaker 4: risk the X on my wrists.

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Speaker 3: You know, I feel blank when you keep going.

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Speaker 4: But in my conversation with the actress who plays me.

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Speaker 4: Her name is Ariel. I talked a lot about how

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Speaker 4: much I wrestled with God and that it took me

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Speaker 4: a lot longer to come to kind of trust with

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Speaker 4: Him than.

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Speaker 6: It did for Tim.

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Speaker 4: And so that those two scenes kind of represented my

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Speaker 4: struggle early on and then kind of that surrender of

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Speaker 4: God is good. He has us, he has me regardless

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Speaker 4: of what happens. So it was more representative of what

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Speaker 4: I was struggling with internally.

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Speaker 1: That makes so much sense. It was beautifully done. And

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Speaker 1: just as you were sharing Hillary, I mean, the word

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Speaker 1: that jumped out at me with not surprising for someone

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Speaker 1: from unhurried. The word with you know, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: you know, Peterson talks about a long same direction. And

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Speaker 1: when you're stuffering, I'm going to call it suffering. Suffering

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Speaker 1: with cancer for twenty five years. That's that's a rough road.

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Speaker 1: It's a rough still to swallow. And if you're not

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Speaker 1: going to give up on God or Jesus Christianity and

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Speaker 1: you're going to stay in there, then you've got to

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Speaker 1: end up somewhere right. And I think the word with

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Speaker 1: absolute that landing place. God is with me in all things,

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Speaker 1: and that is I mean that's bigger than theology, right,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, help tell me more about that. How that

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Speaker 1: feels to you, guys?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you were even instrumental in some of

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Speaker 4: that grappling and wrestling too, just in the spiritual direction

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Speaker 4: I did with you, because I.

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Speaker 6: Think it comes in different.

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Speaker 4: Almost iterations if you're you know, I think early on

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Speaker 4: I had to wrestle with was God good?

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Speaker 6: Is he with me?

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Speaker 4: And once that felt kind of settled, then, you know,

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Speaker 4: in different seasons of life, I just wrestled with in general.

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Speaker 6: So then what's this pair thing? Like how do you

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Speaker 6: answer prayer? Do you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Just all the questions surrounding prayer, which is a lot

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Speaker 4: of what I wrestled with you about. And you know,

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Speaker 4: if you can tend to when you don't, when prayers

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Speaker 4: aren't answered the way you hope, you can tend to

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Speaker 4: kind of hold God out at arms arms distance, even

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Speaker 4: though in my head I kind of sent that he's good,

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Speaker 4: that he's with me, there's living into it in your

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Speaker 4: actual life too, Like do I still interact with him

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Speaker 4: in that intimate way even though it feels like at

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Speaker 4: times he's not good because I'm not seeing the things

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Speaker 4: in my life that i'd hope to see or I'm

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Speaker 4: not experiencing him the way that.

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Speaker 6: Maybe i'd like to.

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Speaker 4: There's times when he seems silent and it just a

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Speaker 4: relationship with God. It isn't something we can control, and

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Speaker 4: he isn't someone we can control, and that ultimately is

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Speaker 4: such a good thing leaning into the mystery of who

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Speaker 4: he is and how he changes and knows us and

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Speaker 4: is with us. But I feel like at every stage

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Speaker 4: of my life I've had like a little something different

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Speaker 4: to kind of wrestle with him about.

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Speaker 6: But also that's part of what it is to be

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Speaker 6: intimate with someone that's with Yeah, yeah, you.

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Speaker 1: Have something to say about with him.

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Speaker 3: No, I just spoke on that this morning. That was

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Speaker 3: my whole thing at Lipscom University was it was all

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Speaker 3: on witness. And I think when we were together through

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Speaker 3: our years of post megachurch land that we got to

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Speaker 3: spend together and like that those are some of the

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Speaker 3: most shaping years of our life for sure, as in

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Speaker 3: our spiritual awakening. Was the years that we got to

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Speaker 3: spend with you two, and that's when with made the

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Speaker 3: most sense to us. I was like, I will never

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Speaker 3: work for God again. That's what Actually, it's what I

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Speaker 3: quit working for God and said, We'll just hang out

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Speaker 3: with you for the rest of my days. So if

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Speaker 3: you want to open doors that are best for your

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Speaker 3: kingdom and not mine, you open those. And even this

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Speaker 3: whole season, my favorite part about the season is that

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Speaker 3: I haven't opened a door yet. Since those days, I

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Speaker 3: made a commitment just to never open a door. And Jesus,

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Speaker 3: if it's best for yours kingdom, then you open that thing.

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Speaker 3: I'll walk through it. So to have a movie and

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Speaker 3: these songs and a book and all those things that

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Speaker 3: are awesome and Jimmy Kimmel, I mean, just all these

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Speaker 3: crazy things. It's like, Man, I didn't open any of

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Speaker 3: these And how much more fun is that to do

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Speaker 3: that with him? And if he gets me up another day,

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Speaker 3: we then we hang out with him again another day.

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Speaker 3: And if not, then I'm with him then. So oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: that witness thing man, that that changed my life when

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Speaker 3: we were all hanging out together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny. You're leading into the next place

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Speaker 1: I wanted to go, which I was trying to remember

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Speaker 1: how long ago that was? That was right before you moved,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. Yep? How long ago?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was twenty ten. I feel like it was

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Speaker 3: twenty ten to two thousand.

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Speaker 4: Twenty twelve, probably twenty fifteen, I would say, ish, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: There for ten years. Eleven Yeah, eleven years. Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: I do remember that. I actually pulled out I think

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Speaker 1: this might have been from the book. I pulled out

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Speaker 1: a little quote because you were talking about this. You

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Speaker 1: said you were in this is a journal entry. You

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Speaker 1: were in the preface of the second book of the

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Speaker 1: trilogy of your life, and you said, I was trying

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Speaker 1: so hard to work for God, thinking that's what he

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Speaker 1: wanted for me. In the leaving, I realized that all

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Speaker 1: he wanted and what he was doing. And we all

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Speaker 1: were together for a couple of years there in that

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Speaker 1: everybody was sort of in the three years ye like yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: don't don't really know what that was, but I think

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Speaker 1: there's something else and we sort of landed together for

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Speaker 1: bid and it I just I remember it was such fondness,

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Speaker 1: such gloriousness, and the joy that you both just exuded

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Speaker 1: and sort of what we had for a while was

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Speaker 1: it was just lovely.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I remember you.

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Speaker 5: Saying out loud, yeah, I'm gonna go, I was.

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Speaker 1: Just gonna say. I remember you saying out loud to

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Speaker 1: us before you wrote it in the book that you

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Speaker 1: you were talking about this, this second book of the trilogy.

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Speaker 1: I remember that. I thought, Yeah, wide perspective view on

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Speaker 1: your own life, knowing sort of where you are in

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Speaker 1: the store. I loved it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I journaled that. I remember literally journaling, going, God,

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Speaker 3: that is so weird. That is such a thing that

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Speaker 3: I would write, you know, like wow, not really in

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Speaker 3: some ways, but it felt like this weird thing. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: there's no way that to you, but I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to write it down because this feels right. And so

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Speaker 3: I just wrote him, you're in the second book, You're

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Speaker 3: in the preface of the second book and the trilogy

402
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Speaker 3: of your life, and wrote it and then all of

403
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Speaker 3: a sudden, all hell broke loose in our world and

404
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Speaker 3: everything kind of fell apart. It was like, oh, okay,

405
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Speaker 3: Jesus go like, I'm done trying to tell you what

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Speaker 3: to do, Like, ay, good, would you do this and

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Speaker 3: do that? Which is fine but way more fun. So

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Speaker 3: that's when we started the experiment of let's just let's

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Speaker 3: be those people who are dumb enough. I think we

410
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Speaker 3: all kind of said that for a few years, like

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Speaker 3: let's be the people that are dumb enough to trust him, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: if it doesn't work, man, we went down trusting God

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Speaker 3: like that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: So I just know this. It's just to someone the

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Speaker 1: other day we were I was someone who's interviewing me

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Speaker 1: on a podcast, and I was talking about an unheard life,

417
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Speaker 1: you know, just the generalities of what it means to

418
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Speaker 1: try to live everything we're called. We call it an

419
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Speaker 1: unhead life, call it whatever you want. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: walk in the ways of Jesus non anxiously and present.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, said Alan, and I are just audacious enough

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Speaker 1: to say, let's give this a shot.

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Speaker 3: Yep. I think that was that was That was what

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Speaker 3: we all like. I've told people that the most successful

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Speaker 3: failure I've ever been a part of was our three

427
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Speaker 3: years together. And it was just, you know, tried to

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Speaker 3: start this awesome church. I was like, what are we doing?

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Speaker 3: Like what we don't want to start a thing? Like

430
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Speaker 3: who was it? That's so stupid. Let's just like let's

431
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Speaker 3: try some stuff. And man, that Chaine, I mean, we

432
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Speaker 3: are such different people because we got to hang out

433
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Speaker 3: with that little community of that like that failure, like

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Speaker 3: in right Western terms, the total utter failure of a

435
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Speaker 3: church start was like the biggest, most profound thing ever,

436
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Speaker 3: so good.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. I would have never labeled that because I know

438
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: it short lived, like it was a church plant. It

439
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: didn't grow and then it closed, like that was the

440
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: the it. But in the midst it was the connections

441
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: we made in the ye, the holding space and the

442
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: watching and waiting for God move all of us. And

443
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: then everybody pretty much went on if you think it

444
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: through Fields, Websters, Badlings, Timmins. We all moved into the

445
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: next thing right of our lives and we started under

446
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: a living. It was a little bit after that, but

447
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 1: definitely we're in the transitional moments toward what we're doing

448
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: right now.

449
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, same.

450
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 3: And what a gift. I mean, you know, I love

451
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: hearing our story, but it's also the gift is the

452
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: invitation of anybody listening to go, man, some of these

453
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 3: seasons that suck and are like what's happening? This is

454
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 3: like what are we doing that? Even in those places,

455
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: if we're sober enough to join Him in those places,

456
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: It's it's like the chapter in our book about manure

457
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: you know, and I talked about I was teaching a

458
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: bunch of like it was the weekend after Christmas is

459
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: the worst weekend to give a pastor ever. And so

460
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: I was like, you've got five year olds and ninety

461
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: five year olds in this one room, and how do

462
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: you talk to them and like talk about the four

463
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: soils of the heart and so anyways, let's looking at manure.

464
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: And because that's soil and it come to manure, that

465
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: manure was like this gift to soil into plants. And

466
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I'll look at the definition. And

467
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: the definition of manure is the softening agents for hardened soil.

468
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 3: And if you think of it, that whole point of

469
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 3: that is the heart. The hard is the soil, and

470
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: the softening agent for our hardened hearts is manure. It's

471
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: the stuff, right, I mean, gosh, if I can have

472
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 3: that perspective more. And then the next definition is the

473
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: manure is the stuff that holds all the nutrients to

474
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 3: the base of the plant. So when the water comes,

475
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: the rain, the storms, it's actually holding the like the

476
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: nutrients to the plant. That's so profound, and I want

477
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 3: to get rid of all dumb because it's stinky and

478
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: still but and it gets on us. And and yet

479
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 3: like what if it's one of the great gifts. I

480
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 3: mean it's kind of biblical. So yeah, man, so profound

481
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 3: for sure.

482
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: It is a rough realization you sort of have to

483
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: move to acceptance the fact that it is the hard

484
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: stuff that forms us and deepens us, keeps us close

485
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: to God. I wish I wish opposite. It is if

486
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: I look at me from my I've got a I

487
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: got a whole another decade on YouTube, I look over

488
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: my sixty years and I'm like, it is all the

489
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: hard places that have made me who I am now. Yeah,

490
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, and and I'm grateful And like you said,

491
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I mean I didn't enjoy it all.

492
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: But would you want to be less who God has

493
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: made you to be?

494
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: No?

495
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, So that'sound.

496
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: There.

497
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: The other thing you were talking about back in the day,

498
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: and I can't remember when you came up with this.

499
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: I remember you talking about it while we were together.

500
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: Is the ten thousand minutes.

501
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 5: Yep, yeah, yeah, we bitch there for sec did you

502
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 5: hear me?

503
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: I did it? Yeah?

504
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 5: Yeah?

505
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 3: Oh good, Yeah, it was when we left, I'm sorry.

506
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: Our dog is like, hey, everybody, I kind of want

507
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: to regard this Kujo. Her name's Kujo. You real small? No. Yeah.

508
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: When we had left being at Mariner's Church, which was

509
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: a great season, and I think our disillusionment was more

510
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: on us than on anybody else. We kind of own

511
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: our own disillusion in working for God for so many

512
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 3: years and that's being so exhausted, and that's just kind

513
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: of the way that we thought we were supposed to

514
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: do it. So when we left. The weekend I left Mariners,

515
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 3: I was leading worship for a camp at Team Lake

516
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: and the pastor just mentioned there ten thousand and eighty

517
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: minutes in a week. I was like, ten thousand and

518
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 3: eighty minutes, and I realized that I had spent my

519
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: entire life, all of the church's resources go into this

520
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: eighty minute gathering. And I'm like, dude, that's some wild

521
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: math right there. Just eighty minutes out of the ten

522
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 3: thousand and eighties. We're all We're like, come to church.

523
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: We will you know church, we will tell you about Jesus.

524
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 3: This is where you can worship Jesus in the eighty minutes.

525
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: This is when we'll tell your neighbors about Jesus. You know,

526
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 3: it's like, dang, I mean the eighty is fine, Let's

527
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: keep gatherings in the eighties and coffee shop or a

528
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: building or whatever. But I just wanted to be more

529
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 3: part of the ten thousand minutes. Like that's when the stuff,

530
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: it's the fan, that's when life gets hard is in

531
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: the ten thousand minutes. So I just committed to the

532
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 3: rest of my life will be aiming toward joining Jesus

533
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: in the ten thousand minutes. So yeah, we started profit

534
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: and we get to put out resources just to help

535
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: the church join Jesus in the ten thousand minutes. That's

536
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: I mean, what could happen, Jim, Like if Jesus people

537
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: looked like Jesus, not like some silly weak religion thing

538
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: that we got going on, but like if we looked

539
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 3: like Jesus, that would be crazy. So that's what pretty much,

540
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: that's all I really get excited about, is inviting people

541
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 3: into that. In myself, that's included like yeah, like when

542
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: the people that were not big fans of in the

543
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: government say anything on the on the Worldwide Interweb, and

544
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my gosh, all I want to do

545
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: is damn that person and say other words because it's

546
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: just true. And then I'm like, dang it, you don't

547
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: get to do that, not that ten thousand minutes if

548
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 3: we get to join him in praying blessing for that person,

549
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: Like who does that? I'll follow that guy any day.

550
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's that's the imitation in a ten thousand minutes?

551
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Good? Yeah? What do you think about that? Hillary? How

552
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: do you what does that ten thousand we look like

553
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: for you?

554
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 3: Yeah?

555
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 4: I think just awareness of like you were talking about

556
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: the presence of Jesus with us and how that changes

557
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 4: things because it opens our eyes to whether it's the

558
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 4: small interactions throughout the day that can hold so much

559
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 4: more power than we normally see when we're just moving

560
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: through and moving quickly. But it's seeing people, it's seeing

561
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: opportunities to love and serve. It's yeah, being present to

562
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 4: conversations that come up with our kids that otherwise I'm

563
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: not aware of or attendant to.

564
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 6: It's it's how we interact.

565
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 4: I think being present to both Jesus and then to

566
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 4: his people as opposed to just powering through life. Kind

567
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 4: of about every other thing but the things that are

568
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 4: most important.

569
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an attempt to stay is sober. We could

570
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: say as sober as possible, and that's kind of our aim. Yeah,

571
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, alcohol sober or drug sober, but

572
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: just like just sober to the nearness of God. I mean,

573
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: what could freaking happen if Jesus people have we lived

574
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: sober to his view versus ours. I mean it sounds

575
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: so cliche and silly, but I mean, you get this

576
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: more than anybody in it. Man, it could be such

577
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: a cool season when more than yeah us we figure

578
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: that out.

579
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, I want to talk to

580
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: you guys, because I know you're my people. One of

581
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: the words that I've been using to talk about what

582
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: you're saying is the word goodness, the fruit of the

583
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: spirit of goodness. You know, what if you could overcome evil?

584
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: Yeah?

585
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: Right?

586
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: And what if?

587
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: What if?

588
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: If?

589
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: I don't know how many Christians are on the planet,

590
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: a billion? Have I heard that number before me? And

591
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: people on the planet we're good like they were good people.

592
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the good girl. I'm talking about and

593
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: then and then being good to other people. I'm I'm

594
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: totally with you. I think that would make a difference.

595
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, just actually real people living their actual, real

596
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: lives in their own exactly where they are with their family,

597
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: with their friends. And when I go to Trader Joe

598
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: every week, can I be good to that sweet girl,

599
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, bringing up my I could look at her.

600
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: I don't have to act like she's not a human.

601
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: And I know this experience because my son works at

602
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: Traator Joe's and he says, Mom, people are mean.

603
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: Them.

604
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: He actually said, sometimes they just treat us like we're

605
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: part of the furniture that's in the in the building. No, no,

606
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: that's so wrong. I just don't I'm just putting an

607
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: exclamation point on what you guys just said. I think

608
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: we could be good, just good.

609
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's be if we could be hated.

610
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: You know, we're gonna be hated. Everybody's like, well, we're

611
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: supposed to be hated for stuff. I'm like, well, for

612
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: the right thing. Maybe like that. We were so loving,

613
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: we were so kind, we were so generous with our stuff,

614
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: we were so like blessing of our enemies. That people

615
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: are like, those guys are jerks. They bless their enemies

616
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: too much. Like let's go, let's be hated for that.

617
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

618
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: For sure, we'll continue after the break.

619
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm wondering, let's pivot here to talk about

620
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: marriage for a sec in the in light of all this.

621
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: You know, we sort of talked about sort of individual

622
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: but what is you know, there's probably been periods of isolation,

623
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: maybe some anger, be a little depression there. I don't know,

624
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: you can tell me, but I mean, what has helped

625
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: you guys stick it out together? Like I'm sure you

626
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: know someone's high and someone's low. Maybe what happens when

627
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: you both hit the kids at the same time? You know,

628
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: what does that look like over he haas twenty five years?

629
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm trying to think if we have ever both

630
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 4: been low at the same time.

631
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 5: I do remember ever had.

632
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: Problems, So we've never done that. You haven't sad for

633
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 3: other people who have had problems. No, we just not

634
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: really put smooth Salem. So any other questions.

635
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 4: No, early on, I remember, initially in the first several

636
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 4: years of diagnosis. You know, he is the most extreme

637
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 4: extrovert known to man, but it was such an overwhelming

638
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 4: season that he really needed to pull back, and that

639
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: was so unusual. It kind of created a whole different

640
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 4: dynamic for our marriage, and I think so much of

641
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 4: it is giving each other the space and permission to

642
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 4: be where we both are individually and to support each

643
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 4: other in that place, knowing you know, with that support,

644
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 4: you then can come through it. But I think we've

645
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 4: we've definitely traded off, you know, kind of struggling being

646
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 4: I definitely have gone through period of depression for sure,

647
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: as I wrestled with what if I don't get to

648
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 4: have my husband, like you know, you get married and

649
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 4: think we have the next sixty years together and that

650
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: may not be our story. And I had to really

651
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 4: grapple with his death and so him allowing me the

652
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 4: space to struggle and wrestle and be upset with God.

653
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think allowing each other to be where

654
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 4: each person is at and supporting each other in that

655
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 4: has been huge.

656
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. At the end of the book, there's a little

657
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 3: chapter and in there I talk about wanting to use

658
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: more words with ing instead of ed at the end

659
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: of them like I've learned this or I figured this out.

660
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know if I have. I'm learning this.

661
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: I'm still processing, you know, And I think we're just

662
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: in the midst of continuing work on our marriage. I mean,

663
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 3: we work so hard on our marriage and have for

664
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: so many years. I mean, there's your leven was super

665
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 3: hard year. I don't know all the ones, but there's

666
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 3: been a lot of a lot of hard years when

667
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 3: we've not been connecting in different ways, and I don't

668
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: know how we keep making it other than we're just like,

669
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 3: I'm in this with you, and I agree. I think

670
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: there's I'm learning how to give you more space on

671
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 3: hard things when you're holding hard things. She's more emotional

672
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: that I am. I'm more cerebral, and allowing her to

673
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 3: have that process is something I'm in the midst of

674
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: learning and I think I'm doing better at but I

675
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: still got a ways to go with that. Yeah, I

676
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: think I think our our desire to own and repair

677
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 3: has been like one of the greatest gifts in our marriage,

678
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: even with our kids or but just to like own

679
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: my crap and then repair oonent repair, own it, repair,

680
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 3: I mean, we just keep pushing that way, and that's

681
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 3: been really helpful so far. Yeah.

682
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: Do you remember all the way back to very early years,

683
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: Like you've made your way way that you just described,

684
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: but early on, did you have the tools in the

685
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: awareness to know that you could allow the other person

686
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: to be where they are, Like, how did you learn that?

687
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: At the beginning.

688
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 3: I knew it cerebrally because my mom's a therapist. We

689
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time with some really great therapists

690
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: through the years, and incredible people shaped us really like man,

691
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: But practicing it is a little different.

692
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 4: It's like we knew it in theory, for sure, we

693
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: were aware that's what you're supposed to do, but living

694
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: into it is a whole different thing. And that's just

695
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, you just have starts and stops, and you

696
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 4: keep trying and you find out the rhythms that work

697
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: for you. But it's just living it that cut us.

698
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

699
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: Well, what a great grace to have, at least the knowledge.

700
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: Some people don't have the knowledge right off, and it

701
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: takes a while to even come upon that realization. Yeah.

702
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: And I think what you're hitting on is really what

703
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: long term marriage is about anyway, Right, You're hanging in there.

704
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm there for you no matter what we're going to

705
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: do this. Yeah, and then you just keep practicing practice.

706
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, you're right, remembering the things you know.

707
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: Yep. I think what a gift for us to put

708
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 3: more into marriage and give each other tools. And we

709
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: did a marriage re treat this year in Hawaii. It

710
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 3: didn't suck, but we got to we got to kind

711
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: of like facilitate one not like we had any the answers,

712
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: but just ask really good questions. Some of that was

713
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 3: just on giving us tools, but out of tools, out

714
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: of like just content land, but putting things into practice.

715
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 3: So that's probably a really great word that you just

716
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: you know, reminded us of a is the practice is

717
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 3: so huge.

718
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: That's everything I mean in a relationships. Also how we

719
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: connect with God. Right. They call them spiritual practice, right,

720
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: and there you don't just check them off, You're I'm practicing.

721
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: One of the ways I like to think about it

722
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: is that whatever I'm doing, I'm just practicing pivoting back

723
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: my intent journey with God, because I'm not I'm not

724
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: like I'm not usually like way over here, not typically

725
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: at this age of you know, but i might be

726
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: just like like just a little spiritual practice like oh

727
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: my heart, this is what direction heart is going, and

728
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: so I'm going to practice picture Yeah, for the rest

729
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm practicing pivoting back to my intended direction.

730
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: And so then what that can do. And I'm still

731
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: struggling with this because I tend to be a perfection,

732
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: but I'm still practicing. I'm still practicing because my heart

733
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: and my mind fears off one direction. But I think

734
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: god honors are long and each one of ours by practice.

735
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: And that's what I hear you guys in your marriage

736
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: works that way with your kids probably, yeah.

737
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 3: Man so in yeah, yeah, in the process of practicing.

738
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. We got to have an I

739
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: n G on there. I'm processing practicing.

740
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just I keep coming back to it.

741
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 3: It really is more profound the longer that I'm kind

742
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 3: of living into that idea. It's like, no, good, this

743
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 3: gives me grace for myself. It gives me compassion and

744
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 3: also just lets me kind of go cool. We're in

745
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: the process. We're in the process with Jesus, not for them.

746
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: Oh speaking my language, yes.

747
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, And now I mean it's your whole concept. It's

748
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 3: like how much lighter of a life sold? Finally breathing

749
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 3: And the concept is actually in the movie, but the

750
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 3: concept is like most of my Christian life has been

751
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 3: short breath, just like and as we're kind of like

752
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 3: living into the rest and this idea like I can

753
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 3: take deep breasts. I don't have to hold all this

754
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: crap myself. Let's go.

755
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: M oh good, Well we can't end about talking about

756
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: the two rails.

757
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 5: I remember this.

758
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 3: Too.

759
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's so many moments that I

760
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: could talk to you about. You've seen it. I've only

761
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: seen it once, but it really it really marks you.

762
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: They did such a beautiful story, like the storytelling hit

763
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: the right. So he's he's standing there and he's got

764
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: both of his arms out and holding brief gratitude.

765
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, this is my grief. This is my gratitude.

766
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, talk about that.

767
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah they they. I mean that's kind of just been

768
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: something that I've been talking about for years, just trying

769
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 3: to learn that in the process of learning how to hold,

770
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: because I think in our Christian land it's like, you

771
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: know what, Life's so hard, but God's good. Like that

772
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 3: is the dumbest butt ever right in between life is

773
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 3: hard and God is good. And I want to use

774
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 3: the word am there. I think that word is so

775
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: much more important than the word. But just for my

776
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: own just for Tim Timmins, like I will go you know,

777
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 3: what I'm just going to be thankful for another day.

778
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 3: But then I'm like wallpapering over this grief hole that

779
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: is not actually being dealt with. And I think that's

780
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 3: been a process in these past ten years. Probably is

781
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 3: me going Okay, we've got to deal with some of

782
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: this stuff, and which Hillary does really well. But I

783
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: think I'm in the process of learning how to hold both.

784
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 3: So I've just been talking about hold it. This is

785
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 3: grief and whole this and giving it its space. And

786
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: Jesus crying with his friends because he didn't go, no,

787
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: you don't need to cry about just be great logan

788
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 3: another day, like he's with them in it, and he

789
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: also woke us up again, like holding these two has

790
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: really been a good gift for me. And then how

791
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 3: crazy that it gets to be a story in a movie.

792
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think it's interesting that I will

793
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 4: air on the grief side and he'll err on the

794
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 4: gratitude side. And some of that is personality and kind

795
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 4: of our own spiritual the way we're built to interact

796
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 4: with God. But I love that he helps me to

797
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 4: come to recognize where we can be grateful, and I

798
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 4: help him to wrestle the way he needs to do

799
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 4: more and to grieve, but he needs to grieve. And yeah,

800
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 4: I mean the balance of the two is what's beautiful.

801
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 4: I think where Jesus wants to to live, you know.

802
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful. I love hearing how you guys are working together.

803
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean this, this conversation is this glorious. Just you guys, Shres,

804
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: I know I've kind of missed you up, I've watched

805
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: from Afar, So it's been so good to connect and

806
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: and I think just to be another experts that takes

807
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot of courage and intention to hold both of

808
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: those together. That's not an easy thing. Yeah, so if

809
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: you're even making them did it's hard part also, so

810
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: even making that effort just ever and and just to

811
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: swing it back here to unread living what sometimes people

812
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: think unhurried about being all like, no, no, this is

813
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: hard work. We're being intentional here, we're following Jesus. We're

814
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: trying to not only do what he says, we're trying

815
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: to do it the way he did it. Yeah, that's

816
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: a totally different conversation. Yeah, yes, that takes intentionality and

817
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: brief it was a master yes. Yeah, so one of

818
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: our our bishop he was our former bishop. He used

819
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: to just say, you know, Jesus artest person, he knew

820
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: what he was talking about. So I just appreciate you

821
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: guys so much. I love how you are building your

822
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: lives together over all these years. I love how you

823
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: walk with Jesus talk about your I like how real

824
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: it is, how fun it is because of who you are.

825
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: You've got the joyful, bouncy tim You're like tigger, right,

826
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm the tigger in our marriage Alan. Of course, I

827
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: don't know who which animal or Alan is he or

828
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: he will admit it. So having a tigger are in

829
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: the same room sometimes frustrating.

830
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: It. I don't know who are you. I don't think you're.

831
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 4: I'm notre but I tend to be just the more,

832
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 4: do you know, like wrestler, more intense in a lot

833
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 4: of ways.

834
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: That is, we need to figure out which one of

835
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: the who you are?

836
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 5: Yea, it is important.

837
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 3: Iron Man and I'm just thinking options and if that's

838
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 3: one of the okay man, iron Man. Yeah, I just

839
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 3: I'm just here whatever.

840
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't know where this is going. I'll just cut

841
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: us off. I just want to say thank you guys

842
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: so much again for saying yes to talking talking to us.

843
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, Alan say is high. He

844
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: sends his best. He had another appointment, or he would

845
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: have popped up and said hello, Yeah, anyway, thank you, thank.

846
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 5: You, Oh so good.

847
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: Name of your book? Waking Up again? Yep, waking up again?

848
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: Get it now?

849
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Anyway, anywhere were book?

850
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: Get it anywhere? It's really fun to read. Timmons is funny.

851
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: The chapters are super short, and every section there's a

852
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: Hillary chapter and you get to her. Yeah, it's beautiful.

853
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 3: So go out.

854
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: Thank you guys, thank you.

855
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me on the unhead Living podcast.

856
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: You can download free resources and learn more about us

857
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 2: at unhurried living dot com, and please subscribe and share

858
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 2: this podcast with your friends and colleagues. We'd also like

859
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: to thank our partner Life Audio. Check out their other

860
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 2: faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Blessings to you

861
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 2: as you make your way