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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel.

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Speaker 1: This is your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and

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Speaker 1: remarkable comebacks. In the end, this podcast is a place

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Speaker 1: for the desperate, the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a place of hope and healing. I

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Speaker 1: know that firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: not the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after

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Speaker 1: decades of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I

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Speaker 1: found Jesus. My prayer is that as I interview people

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Speaker 1: just like you and just like me, along with professionals

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Speaker 1: in the fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you

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Speaker 1: will find the peace that is available to you through

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Speaker 1: Christ on the other side of whatever you're going through

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Speaker 1: and whatever addiction that might be. Because let's face it,

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Speaker 1: we're all addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically

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Speaker 1: vulnerable as we explore what it looks like to be

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Speaker 1: on this journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this. You know, one thing I like to make

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Speaker 1: clear and I'm gonna make it clear again here today,

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Speaker 1: right now, is that I don't believe that a no

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Speaker 1: one can drink. My wife drinks. My wife when we

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Speaker 1: go out for dinner, she gets a cocktail. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not against drinking categorically. I'm also not against people who

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Speaker 1: have revalue their relationship with alcohol, felt a conviction to

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Speaker 1: maybe give it up for a season and then or

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Speaker 1: have abused it at some point and then go back

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Speaker 1: to drinking moderately. I'm also not against that. But let

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Speaker 1: me say this about that second category, is that in

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Speaker 1: my experience those there's there's a large number of people

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Speaker 1: who are convicted about their drinking, who are convicted about

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Speaker 1: their relationship with alcohol, reevaluate it and then they actually

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Speaker 1: should not go back to drinking, like that is their

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Speaker 1: true conviction. But they do go back, and even if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't become something where they evolve into what a

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Speaker 1: quote unquote traditional alcoholic looks like, it's still is something

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Speaker 1: that is just pinging at their soul. And maybe that's

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Speaker 1: you today. That was our guest on today's show, Ali Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: And so Ali is a pastor's wife. They are missionaries.

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Speaker 1: She is a Harvard educated brilliant woman who was a

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Speaker 1: college athlete.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: She drank in college. Kind of it kind of consumed her,

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Speaker 1: and then she gave it up completely after kind of

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Speaker 1: this radical encounter with Christ. But then slowly she started

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Speaker 1: welcoming alcohol back into her life when she knew that

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Speaker 1: it was something that she shouldn't really is what it

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Speaker 1: comes down to, and that moderation. She was able to

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Speaker 1: moderate for a long time, but it just became something

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Speaker 1: that was quietly eating at her, at her soul, and

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Speaker 1: she finally realized, I have to surrender this to the

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Speaker 1: Lord and I haven't, and she did. And I love

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Speaker 1: this quote's that she says in our interview. She says,

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Speaker 1: I knew God had called me to more, and I

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Speaker 1: was eating bread crumbs. And I just wonder how many

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Speaker 1: of you are listening to this and you're eating bread crumbs,

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Speaker 1: like the Lord has a feast waiting for you. But

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Speaker 1: you're like, no, I want that thing. I just want

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Speaker 1: to keep. Maybe it's alcohol, maybe it's you know, I

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Speaker 1: just want a little bit of I'm not looking at porn,

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Speaker 1: but I want those Instagram feed, that Instagram feed that

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Speaker 1: has those women or those men in it that I

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Speaker 1: really like looking at It's not porn.

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Speaker 3: It's fine.

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Speaker 1: And the Lord's like, you're just eating bread crumbs, and

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Speaker 1: I've got a feast for you. And that's what I

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Speaker 1: love about Ali's story and what she's going to talk

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Speaker 1: about today. I think it's an important story. I think,

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Speaker 1: and I hope and I know actually that there's some

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Speaker 1: of you that will resonate with it. So want to

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Speaker 1: prepare you for this conversation. I think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a good one. Just a reminder you if you

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Speaker 1: are new to the show, if you've been around and

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Speaker 1: you haven't yet, you can buy my book, Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic, which this podcast is based on. It

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Speaker 1: is still thirty percent off and free shipping from the publisher.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long it like it's it's been

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Speaker 1: like what four months since the book came out and

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Speaker 1: they still have this and I'm like, awesome, I love this.

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Speaker 1: Keep going. Like they haven't pulled the plug on that

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Speaker 1: deal yet, so I don't know when they will. They

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Speaker 1: made tomorrow, so please go take advantage of that. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I just want to say, like I don't

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Speaker 1: talk about numbers a lot, but we are we are

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Speaker 1: at like one hundred and ten thousand downloads of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: and that's crazy. I mean, we've been around for seven

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Speaker 1: seven months, and I'm just floored. I'm honored, and I

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Speaker 1: just think it speaks to the necessity for radical vulnerability,

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Speaker 1: which Ali will talk about and you'll hear like she

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Speaker 1: was a little scared to share this story, and yet

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Speaker 1: she did because the Lord told her to. And as

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Speaker 1: I alluded to, there was times in her life where

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Speaker 1: she didn't listen to that prompting and now she is

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Speaker 1: and so I'm so grateful for her. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: Ali Kennedy, mom, wife, missionary, former Division one Ivy League graduate,

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Speaker 1: and athlete, and I'm excited for you to hear her story.

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Speaker 1: Ali Kennedy, Ali, thank you so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 1: I talked a little bit about you in the intro,

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Speaker 1: but I really am excited to chat because I think

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Speaker 1: your story is one that a lot of people need

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Speaker 1: to hear. You know, I think that you are a

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Speaker 1: great example that people who have an alcohol story don't

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Speaker 1: all look like a certain thing, their stories don't sound

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Speaker 1: a certain way, and so I'm really excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you well, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I feel honored to be here and I've been looking

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Speaker 2: forward to this, so thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: And we've moved. We've literally moved, like I feel like

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Speaker 1: we've moved heaven and earth because like you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's morning by you in the Philippines, it's night

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Speaker 1: by this is this is actually I will say this.

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Speaker 1: You were my first night podcast. Now people won't necessarily know,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, you are my first you know, we

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Speaker 1: should call it Confessions after Dark.

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Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like to say I'm living in the future.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually a day ahead of you, so I know, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But that actually brings up something that I wanted you

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Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit is because I think

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Speaker 1: you have a really interesting background. And again, part of

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Speaker 1: the importance I think about that background is that it

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a traditional I need to take

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Speaker 1: a break from alcohol story. And so you know you

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Speaker 1: are someone who is I really educated Oxford, So tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about your background and then how

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Speaker 1: you got to the Philippines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing really makes sense in my story. That's kind

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Speaker 2: of been a theme actually, is just the sense of

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Speaker 2: adventure and yeah, falling after God. But so yeah, I

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Speaker 2: grew up in Montana. I'm one of four four girls

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Speaker 2: in my family. My dad was a dentist in my hometown,

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Speaker 2: and my mom worked and was a devoted mom as well,

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Speaker 2: but she Yeah. So I grew up in Montana and

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Speaker 2: was big into sports, and that was really my ticket

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Speaker 2: to exploring possibilities to play in college. That was my

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Speaker 2: dream from early on. And so I worked really hard

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Speaker 2: at basketball. That was my sport back in the day,

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Speaker 2: and I played on competitive summer teams and traveled around

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Speaker 2: and eventually was was recruited and scouted by the Ivy

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Speaker 2: League schools, which was just incredible to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, me, me, are you sure?

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Speaker 2: It was kind of like that experience, you know, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: just things kind of aligned and I went to play

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Speaker 2: basketball at Princeton. So that was kind of the beginning

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Speaker 2: of opening up my world to the world in a sense,

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Speaker 2: the beginning of it.

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Speaker 1: Going from Montana to Princeton, New Jersey. You know, as

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Speaker 1: someone who spent seven years in New York City, you know,

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Speaker 1: I told you there's this little train that runs and

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Speaker 1: it's called the Dinky and it's an awesome fun Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I loved when I lived in New York City.

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Speaker 1: Was going to school there. I loved going to Princeton,

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Speaker 1: but I was a small town Wisconsin kid. But then

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Speaker 1: went to the big city. You're Montana. I don't think

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Speaker 1: there are any big cities in Montana, like, and the

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Speaker 1: ones that pretend to be I aren't.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah we call these big towns or small cities.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a university town, so you know,

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Speaker 2: there was that college atmosphere, but yeah, there's not really

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Speaker 2: big cities in Montana. So I always say that the

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Speaker 2: leap from Montana to New Jersey was my first culture

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Speaker 2: shock experience. And now I live in Asia, so of

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Speaker 2: course the culture shock kept getting more more intense. But

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Speaker 2: back then, yeah, going from a small town in Montana

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Speaker 2: in the northwest of the United States going to the

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Speaker 2: East coast was totally new. And I grew up in

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Speaker 2: a very normal family. I went to a public school.

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Speaker 2: I you know, I was just a very normal gal,

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Speaker 2: I think, and so to get to kind of have

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Speaker 2: this experience was.

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Speaker 3: It was really cool.

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Speaker 2: It was exciting, and and I played basketball there all

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Speaker 2: four years, so that was a big part of of

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Speaker 2: my life and my sense of identity at the time too,

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Speaker 2: which is where alcohol also enters the picture, but we can.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, and I think you were appropriate time. Weren't

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Speaker 1: you even like captain of the team? Do I remember

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Speaker 1: that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I was, Yeah, in my last two years.

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Speaker 1: I was yeah, yeah, so okay, so when tell us

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Speaker 1: how alcome? Well, well, actually, first of all, then then

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Speaker 1: let's skip the alcohol alcohol part, because okay, ivy League,

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Speaker 1: And then how do you get to Oxford? How do

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Speaker 1: you how do you get to the Philippines?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thinks so I I my senior year in college,

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, deciding what to do with life,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of my friends were going at that

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Speaker 2: time kind of to the main cities in the United

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Speaker 2: States like New York, Boston, Chicago to work in banks,

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Speaker 2: like you know, investment banking, consulting that was really popular,

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Speaker 2: medical school, graduate schools. And I just had this sense

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Speaker 2: like I'm supposed to do something different, like I'm supposed

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Speaker 2: to and so there was a recruiter on campus recruiting

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Speaker 2: for a Princeton in Asia program. So I was like,

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Speaker 2: that's it. I want to do that. I want to

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Speaker 2: go to Asia. I want to do something, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of unorthodox. So I applied and got accepted. So

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Speaker 2: that was my first time to Asia. I got I

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Speaker 2: was placed in the Philippines, believe it or not, and

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Speaker 2: so this is my second time in the Philippines.

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Speaker 3: So that was two thousand and six, a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: So I worked here in broadcast media for two years,

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Speaker 2: and then I went to Singapore for two years and

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Speaker 2: worked for broadcast Media. I was a news presenter and

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Speaker 2: a news caster and I got to wear all the

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Speaker 2: hats in broadcast and that was kind of the time

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Speaker 2: where God got a hold of me and I recommitted

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Speaker 2: my life to Christ. When I was twenty three, and

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Speaker 2: I was during this season that I kind of sensed

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Speaker 2: a call to full time ministry. So I went from

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Speaker 2: Asia back to the United States. I was still single,

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Speaker 2: praying for my future partner. You know. I was like, Lord,

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Speaker 2: you know, I did want to, you know, get married

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Speaker 2: and have a family, but I was in my late

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Speaker 2: twenties at that time. Went back to the United States,

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Speaker 2: moved back to Princeton, New Jersey, worked in campus ministry

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Speaker 2: for two years. So I worked with Princeton students, which

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Speaker 2: was the joy of my life because it was just

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Speaker 2: like I was the one that you know, was getting

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Speaker 2: drunk on Friday nights and I got to minister to that,

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Speaker 2: to that crowd, to that population. So it was during

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Speaker 2: that season that I met my husband. He was studying

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Speaker 2: at the seminary down the road to become a pastor.

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Speaker 2: And we we hooked. We we Uh, I was gonna

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Speaker 2: say hooked up. That's not the right term.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these days that connected.

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Speaker 2: I mean hookup was in my previous chapter, but now

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Speaker 2: this time I was, you know, we were both kind

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Speaker 2: of going after God and and God connected us and

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Speaker 2: we we got married, and then we went to England

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Speaker 2: for two years to study further. So I did a

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Speaker 2: master's degree in theology there and then we moved to

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Speaker 2: the Philippines, our first call and ministry to the International Church.

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Speaker 2: So I've kind of had a couple boomerang experiences where

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Speaker 2: God's brought me back to a place a second time.

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Speaker 2: That happened in Princeton, that happened in Philippines. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Uh, yeah, what's what's that about?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But this is my second time the Philippines. We're serving

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Speaker 2: the International Church. We have four children, and we we

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Speaker 2: love we love it, we love living here in this

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Speaker 2: crazy life and unpredictable life that that I've lived.

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Speaker 1: Like, so, how like what is just give us a

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Speaker 1: quick glimpse of what life is like in the Philippines.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it like you know, I think we

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Speaker 1: have ideas as Americans and you probably know this, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up in Montanable, like like everyone's on a scooter

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Speaker 1: and it's all crowded and there's probably smog, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like like what.

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Speaker 2: Is it Like, Yeah, there's this is a well, it's

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Speaker 2: a diverse country, meaning there's there's different, very different now

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Speaker 2: shots of the Philippines that you could get. So we

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Speaker 2: live in Metro Manila and we live in the Central

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Speaker 2: Business District of the Philippines of Metro Manila, so it's

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Speaker 2: very actually very cosmopolitan. So it's like you're walking around

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Speaker 2: the New York City of Manila. So there's sidewalks, there's

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Speaker 2: high end stores, there's malls, there's restaurants. There's McDonald's and

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Speaker 2: Burger Kings on every corner, Starbucks, so it would be

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Speaker 2: very familiar on the surface, and everybody speaks English pretty much.

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Speaker 2: Filipinos are excellent in English, so that's a plus for sure.

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Speaker 2: But then you can there's seven thousand islands in this country,

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Speaker 2: so you can hop a flight or you can drive

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Speaker 2: two hours and be at the beach, and there's beautiful

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Speaker 2: beaches here. It's tropical, it's hot year round. It's hot

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Speaker 2: and hotter, it's humid, so it's it's you know, all

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Speaker 2: of those things. But it's a it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: mixed mix of culture and all kinds of yeah, all

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Speaker 2: kinds of nationalities here. We have people from fifty different

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Speaker 2: nations in our church. So it's it's exciting. There's never

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Speaker 2: a dull moment, that's for sure, okay. But it is

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Speaker 2: a developing world as well, so it kind of has

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Speaker 2: that component as well. There's a lot of poverty and

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Speaker 2: a lot of you'd see that as well if you

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Speaker 2: come visit.

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Speaker 1: And your husband is a pastor, is that correct.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So he's an associate pastor at an international church

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Speaker 2: where we live, and we've been serving here for ten years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And I want to get back to that because

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Speaker 1: I think that that actually enters I think a little

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Speaker 1: bit into the story a little bit later. But so

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Speaker 1: bring us back then when you because you so basically,

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Speaker 1: I think the reason that we are talking today is

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Speaker 1: because I started talking about my alcohol story. You reached

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Speaker 1: out to me on substack, where I publish my stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you just kind of you had told me that

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Speaker 1: you had a story, but you weren't ready to share

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Speaker 1: it yet. And you know, I prayed for you and

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey, you know, when you're ready, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I will support you know when you're ready. And you

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Speaker 1: finally shared that about earlier this spring, and so take

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Speaker 1: us back, you know, I'll link I have the the

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Speaker 1: the post linked in the show notes in the description.

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Speaker 1: But tell us your story with alcohol.

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Speaker 2: Silence, No, where do we begin?

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Speaker 1: We having another another attack.

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Speaker 2: With Yeah, we had some tech issues before. No, I

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Speaker 2: mean it's yeah, I mean, you know the feeling, it's

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Speaker 2: like where do I begin? Where do I begin telling

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Speaker 2: the story? Because it actually my story began quite young,

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Speaker 2: and I was I to just kind of share where

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Speaker 2: it all began and then kind of moved through my

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Speaker 2: story a little bit. So, Yeah, I grew up in

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Speaker 2: the small town of Montana. So in Montana, so I

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Speaker 2: think my parents thought we would be kind of shielded

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Speaker 2: from these kinds of things, but actually it was the opposite,

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Speaker 2: Like there was I was exposed to alcohol. I think

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Speaker 2: the first sip of alcohol. I took was in the

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Speaker 2: sixth grade, so probably like age twelve or so, which

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Speaker 2: is so young. I have four kids now, so I'm

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Speaker 2: just like, oh my gosh, it was so young, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: just that was the beginning of kind of my Now

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Speaker 2: I know the brain science behind it a little bit,

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Speaker 2: which I find really helpful about, you know, alcohol and

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Speaker 2: addiction and what it does to the brain. So those

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Speaker 2: like my early pathways were like being formed, like this

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Speaker 2: is fun, this is exciting. I need this to have fun. Ooh,

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Speaker 2: I want more of this to have fun. So that

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, my association with fun began then

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Speaker 2: in the sixth grade. And thankfully, you know, I was

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Speaker 2: in sports. So sports always kind of kept me, you know,

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Speaker 2: not veering off too far. But you know, I was

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Speaker 2: driving at age fourteen and a half in Montana. I

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Speaker 2: had my car, and so we kind of there was

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Speaker 2: a party scene in my high school and so I

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Speaker 2: was definitely like socially, I was just very social, and

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Speaker 2: I associated fun with parties and alcohol. So that began then.

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Speaker 2: So that was kind of my high school. It was

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Speaker 2: kind of like I was super devoted to sports and

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Speaker 2: did well in school and and but I also enjoyed

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Speaker 2: having good time with my friends, and so it was

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Speaker 2: just really kind of the work hard, party hard mentality

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Speaker 2: from a young age. So got through high school and

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Speaker 2: then got to play in college basketball. As I was

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Speaker 2: sharing earlier, and that that whole pattern just continued. It

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Speaker 2: was just like I actually thought I would go to Princeton,

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Speaker 2: like no one would have fun there, and it was

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Speaker 2: like nope, it was the opposite.

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Speaker 3: People were like.

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Speaker 2: Super intense with their studies. They would It was that

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Speaker 2: work hard, play hard mentality. So yeah, that just continued.

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Speaker 2: I was the one, you know, I was on my

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Speaker 2: basketball team. I was the one that was always coaxing everybody,

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Speaker 2: let's go out, let's have a good time, let's let's drink.

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Speaker 2: Let's yeah, let's let's have fun. So and I would

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Speaker 2: always I never went out and wouldn't get drunk. It

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Speaker 2: was always like go out to get drunk. It was

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Speaker 2: it was very much like overusing alcohol.

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Speaker 3: I had hangover.

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Speaker 1: Did you grow up? Did you grow up a Christian?

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Speaker 2: So I grew up, Yeah, thanks for bringing that up.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up going to church every Sunday. I

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Speaker 2: grew up in the Methodist tradition and I'm thankful for that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my parents really tried to instill in us

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Speaker 2: Christian values, but I wouldn't say that it was translating

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Speaker 2: into my day to day life. And when I got

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Speaker 2: to college, it wasn't really a big part of my identity.

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Speaker 2: Like I always believed in God and I had gone

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Speaker 2: to church every Sunday. Literally we did not miss into

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Speaker 2: Sunday growing up. That was big for my parents, Like

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Speaker 2: we'd always go as a family. I couldn't hang out

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Speaker 2: with friends on Sundays, we couldn't have sleepovers on Saturday nights,

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Speaker 2: like it was very much a big part of our

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Speaker 2: family rhythm week to week, but it was really on Sundays.

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Speaker 2: It was like that it was a Sunday thing. And

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Speaker 2: then like we we were very like in the culture

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Speaker 2: in the you know, just what we were doing, the

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Speaker 2: very the secular culture, So it didn't really penetrate my heart.

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Speaker 2: And I would say that I believed in God. I

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Speaker 2: would say there were probably moments where I prayed to

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Speaker 2: Jesus and accepted Jesus into my heart, but but again

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Speaker 2: it wasn't There wasn't really a lot of teaching and

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Speaker 2: training and formation around it, so it was just kind

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Speaker 2: of like, go to church, receive what we do. But

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Speaker 2: then it didn't translate so that that kind of continued

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Speaker 2: into college. And in fact, when nobody was telling me

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Speaker 2: to go to church, it was kind of like, I

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Speaker 2: think I just won't go, right, and I just stopped

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Speaker 2: going to church in college. So I yeah, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: until my senior year that there was a Christian group

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Speaker 2: on campus that kind of like I noticed them and

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Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I should just go, like and

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Speaker 2: I kind of went on Monday Nights and I just

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Speaker 2: kind of reconnected a little bit to my faith my

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Speaker 2: senior year, but it really wasn't a big part of

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Speaker 2: my college. So even though yeah, I mean I kind

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Speaker 2: of grew up with it and I had faith in God,

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Speaker 2: most of my friends probably wouldn't identify me as a

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Speaker 2: Christian in college.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the lifestyle was just very much like what

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Speaker 1: everyone else was doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was just like, I mean, I call

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Speaker 2: it like suitcase faith. I think I wrote an article

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Speaker 2: about this at some point, But it was like I

394
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Speaker 2: would kind of like take off my take out my

395
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Speaker 2: identity and you know, a Christian identity, you know, and

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Speaker 2: put it on. I would go to my my fellowship

397
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Speaker 2: group and like really enjoy you know, the songs and

398
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Speaker 2: the messages, and it was genuine. It was like I

399
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Speaker 2: love these people, I love being around here. But then

400
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Speaker 2: I would like take off my T shirt and put

401
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Speaker 2: it in the suitcase and shove it under my bed

402
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Speaker 2: and go out partying like within like a day later,

403
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Speaker 2: you know. So it was just kind of very much

404
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Speaker 2: not a full part fully integrated into my life. But

405
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Speaker 2: though I think, yeah, the Holy Spirit started to work

406
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Speaker 2: in my senior year and I started my conscience started

407
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Speaker 2: waking up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Were you are you convicted at that time in your

409
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Speaker 1: senior year, Like was there anything where you're like, hmm,

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Speaker 1: this drinking thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, actually, and this is like leads to my first

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Speaker 2: time of finding freedom. That's part of my story is

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Speaker 2: like I experienced freedom one time and that was in

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty three, and then I'm forty one

415
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Speaker 2: now and it was twenty years later that I experienced

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Speaker 2: freedom again.

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Speaker 3: So that's part of my story.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, my senior year, I started to because I

419
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Speaker 2: had like these newly formed like Christian friends and they

420
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Speaker 2: like weren't partying on the weekend. I started to notice

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Speaker 2: that and I'm like, but I wasn't ready to give

422
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Speaker 2: it up. I wasn't ready to like do anything different.

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Speaker 2: But I noticed it. I was like, oh, they're not

424
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Speaker 2: getting drunk, but they're having a good time. But I

425
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: still was the grip was so strong around me. But

426
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Speaker 2: then it was after my senior year, when I decided

427
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Speaker 2: to go to Asia, that I just had this. It

428
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Speaker 2: really was a God sense that, like, my life is

429
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Speaker 2: going to change when I move. It was like God

430
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: plucked me out from my cause. If I would have

431
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Speaker 2: gone to New York City or Boston or Chicago, or

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Speaker 2: I would have continued in that lifestyle. In some ways,

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Speaker 2: I have like a lush personality, Like I was kind

434
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: of like if someone would invite me to go and party,

435
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: I could, it was hard for me to say no.

436
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: It's just like so I just I know that God's

437
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: by God's grace, his amazing grace, I'm going like this

438
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: like plucking me out of my comfort zone and threw

439
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: me across the world to a place I knew nobody.

440
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: I had no family members, no connections, no nothing started

441
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 2: fresh in this new city. After I graduated college and

442
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: that was when so my senior year, it was it

443
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 2: was kind of this sense like everything's going to change

444
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: next year, so live it up now. And so like

445
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: my senior year, and in between my senior year and

446
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: moving to Asia, I went on a whirlwind trip with

447
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: a couple of my girlfriends around Europe and we like

448
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: we just lived it up. I mean it was I'm

449
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 2: not even proud to say, like we were drinking every

450
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: single night heavily. But it was like this last Hurrah.

451
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: That's what in my mind. I was like, this is

452
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: my last raw because my life is going to change.

453
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: I don't know how, but and it did. And within

454
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 2: weeks of moving to Asia that first time, I was

455
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: on my knees and saying, Jesus, come into my heart

456
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 2: and I want to live for you. And I started

457
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 2: going back to church. Somebody started discipling me for the

458
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: first time, and that was like I had huge gaps

459
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 2: in like my understanding of the gospel. I didn't know

460
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: a lot, and it just took that kind of humbling

461
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: phase of like then the knee, you know, asked God

462
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: for help and people started. He kept bringing people into

463
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 2: my life. And that's when the first time where the

464
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: question was posed to me in a time of prayer

465
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: by the Holy Spirit, and it was so clear that

466
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: I will never forget it. It was like, what is

467
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: the one thing that is keeping you from seeking me fully?

468
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: And it was just like alcohol, like alcohol, like I

469
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: knew it and it was just and so the Lord

470
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: was like in his gentle way, it was just like

471
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: lay it down, like lay it down, and I have

472
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: chills like as I say that, Like it was just

473
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: like lay it down. So for that year, John, like

474
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: I went cold turkey. I had come from this like

475
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: intense party lifestyle, loving alcohol, like loving the party life,

476
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: loving socially, couldn't even imagine my social life without alcohol.

477
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: It was just like that's where I was. And God

478
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: was just like lay it down, and I did and

479
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: I and I had the best year of my life.

480
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: Was it hard to lay it like like like it

481
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: mean physically, was there any symptoms or was it did

482
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: you just feel you know physically?

483
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: No, I mean there were, like I would call them

484
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: now look back, and like I had cravings, like you know,

485
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 2: cravings to go and have drinks and stuff. It was

486
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: really really closely tied with my social life. So like

487
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: I was never like a closet drinker and a loan drinker.

488
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 2: It was always social so like it was. It was

489
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: just so tied and so much wrapped up in my

490
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: identity that I just it was yeah that those first

491
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: few months, I felt like an alien. I was like,

492
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: how do I even live? Like, how do I even yeah,

493
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: how do I connect with people? I didn't know how

494
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: to like, I like forgot. I didn't know if I

495
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: could even like enjoy life without it, because it was

496
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: always that fun thing, that exciting thing. I looked forward

497
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: to going out and having drinks with my friends. So

498
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: I remember the very first time that somebody when I

499
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: was the first couple weeks I was in the Philippines,

500
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: my first time, and I had recommitted my life to

501
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: Christ and had said, okay, Lord, I will lay down

502
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 2: alcohol for a season. Somebody invited me to church that

503
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: next week, and somebody was inviting me to the night clubs,

504
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: and it was just like it was like it was

505
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 2: like here you go on a silver flatter. Here's choose,

506
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, choose, And I just had this awareness like

507
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: I know what the night club scene is, like I

508
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: can go back there, and I can It'll always be

509
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: there for me. But I I something called me to

510
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: kind of do the radical thing and just like start

511
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: going back to church and like just.

512
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: Just let go of the night life for a little while.

513
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: And so I did that and so but it was yeah,

514
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: I remember the first time I actually went out to

515
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: I went out initially and somebody was like, are you drinking?

516
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: And I was like and I was like, no, Like

517
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: I just was. I couldn't. I couldn't.

518
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what to do, you know, It's

519
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: like and then I was like, but I just I

520
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: had I know, it was like the strength in my weakness,

521
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: you know, God give me the strengths, cause it was

522
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: just it wasn't it was out a character for me

523
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: to say no, decline. So it's just you know, as

524
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: it as it does, it gets easier. But in the

525
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: beginning it was really hard because it was just so

526
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: foreign and I didn't know how to be without it.

527
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: How long did how long did it take do you

528
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: feel like for you to for it to feel normal

529
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: to not drink?

530
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Well, And now that I'm going through it a second

531
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: time and just hit my one year mark, yeah, I

532
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: you know it And I I really think like it

533
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: takes probably at least six months, like at least for me,

534
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: it did, and like and then physically you start feeling

535
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: great and then you have more energy and you feel

536
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: like I mean, for me, creativity is linked to drinking.

537
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: Like so in both cases, like the first time, God

538
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: kind of like called me as a writer, like in

539
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: that first time of being free and as a creator,

540
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, so but yeah, six months

541
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: to a year, I would say, I mean for me,

542
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: maybe that's I don't know if that sounds like a

543
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: long time or not a long time, but like I

544
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: think it differs.

545
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think, yeah, I think, but

546
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: I tell people it probably will take a little longer

547
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: than you think.

548
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, it does.

549
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: And I think there's like we don't talk about this

550
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: a lot, and I've I've talked to Christy a little

551
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: bit about it, but like because I'm trained now as

552
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: a grief a grief coach, and so I walk with

553
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: people through grief.

554
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: And by the way, Christy Christy is our friend, Christy

555
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: Osborne who's been on on the podcast Love Life, Shout.

556
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: Out, Shout Out Love Christie.

557
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: She she's part of my later story which we'll get to,

558
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: but and helping me find freedom a second time. But yeah,

559
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: there's like an element of like grieving, like of losing

560
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: something you know, and you go through this process of

561
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: like this was like a huge part of me, and

562
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: now I've lost it, and so you have to For me,

563
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: I feel like the grief, grief acknowledging that is an

564
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: important part and there's like layers of it, which I've

565
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: experienced again for the second time. Yeah, so yeah, it's

566
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: just it's normal. But it's like there is this real

567
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: sense of like sadness of like the change and you're

568
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: stepping into something new and it's uncertain, and you're letting

569
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: go of something that you kind of like strangely found

570
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: comfort in for so long and strangely felt like yourself

571
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: and for so long that like you're completely like dying.

572
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: There's a death right and like resurrections on the other

573
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: side of that. We know that, but like it's there's

574
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: a death.

575
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this. You know what. I'm

576
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: hoping that people listening to this, what I'm hoping you

577
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: hear is like and that don't be ashamed of that,

578
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: like in a sense of like grieve it. I had

579
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: to grieve it. I've met people who unhealthily never grieve

580
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: it and because they're like, I'm not supposed to you know,

581
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to feel it. Like listen, it had

582
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: a grip on you, okay, like greed, Like it was there. Listen.

583
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: Alcohol was there for me in a lot of ways,

584
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, like it didn't talk back to me, you know,

585
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: it didn't it didn't tell me x Y and me.

586
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah right, you know what I meanly Yeah, So so

587
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: grieve it, and I think that's really that's really healthy.

588
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: So bring us now then to Okay, so you give

589
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: it up for a year, but then you go back

590
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: to the States and you get married, and like when

591
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: does alcohol start kind of creeping.

592
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: Back enter back in?

593
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because you look back and I was like

594
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: I really did experience freedom for the first time, like

595
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: major and it was like a transformative experience, like started

596
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: reading my Bible for the first time, filled with the

597
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: spirit and in kind of tangible ways, and like was

598
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: in a community that was just vibrant and just like

599
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: running hard after God and it was an exciting time.

600
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: It was in my twenties.

601
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, I was on a career

602
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: path and broadcast journalism at that time, and alcohol was

603
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: just it could have been a huge part of my life,

604
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: but it just wasn't. Like I just had totally broken,

605
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: broken free, and I realized that actually, I have more

606
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: fun having deep conversations in a coffee shop rather than

607
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: trying to shout across like music in a nightclub. Like

608
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: I had these like realizations like, actually, I'm more wired

609
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: for this. This is how God created me for depth

610
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: and conversation and meaning and connection, you know. So I

611
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: had those like revelations along the way, and it just

612
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: kind of furthered me along in that. And then uh, yeah,

613
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: it was kind of like moved to back to Princeton

614
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: and was working with college students and could see even

615
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: the detrimental and devastating effects of alcohol. Like from that perspective,

616
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm free now, I'm like running after

617
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: God now. But I'm ministering to these college girls who

618
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: were just you know, just in so caught up in

619
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: the hookup culture, the drinking scene, everything that I was before.

620
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: So it was really cool how God allowed me to

621
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: go back and like ministered to the very girls that

622
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: I was, you know, just several years earlier. So during

623
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: that time, yeah, I meet my husband and my now

624
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: husband he was studying in seminary and I mean he

625
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: was part of a trade. He too had a pass

626
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: of abusing alcohol. He was in a fraternity, went to

627
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: a major. He's from Alabama, like you know, Southerner through

628
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: and through and just caught up in that scene of

629
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: like college Alabama. He was a role tide, you know,

630
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: and so that was his background. And he also had

631
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: a radical like transformation experience in his twenties. So we

632
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: met at that time and we both were kind of

633
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: like coming out of that. And he was called to

634
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: the ministry and he he was like an unlikely like

635
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: what you became a pastor like that's his His friends

636
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: were like that was the that was the reaction because

637
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: he he he you know, that was not what anyone

638
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 2: would have anticipated. So God got a hold of him,

639
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: called him through through the Alpha course. I'm not sure

640
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: if you're familiar with the Alpha course, came to christ

641
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: and then called the ministry. So we met, we met up,

642
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: and it was at that time where we started going

643
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: on dates. He really pursued me in like such a

644
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: sweet way and it was refreshing, and we would go

645
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: on dates and we would he would I have noticed

646
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: like he would be having a beer or like he

647
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: would be you know, he would have a couple of

648
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: beers at dinner.

649
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: And I was just like, oh, like.

650
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: He's totally like he's he's free from alcohol, but he's

651
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 2: it's like the you know, First Corinthians, I think it's

652
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 2: ten three or that. Yeah, that verse that's like everything

653
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 2: is permissible but not everything is beneficial, and so there's

654
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: this like freedom around like he can. And I just

655
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: noticed that and I was like, that's interesting, like cause

656
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: I had kind.

657
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: Of swung one the other way.

658
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 2: It was like Christians don't drink, you know, Like I

659
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: was kind of in that, like I was not Christian before,

660
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: but now I'm Christian and like, but I didn't grow

661
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: up in a tradition that alcohol was seen that way.

662
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: But it was just kind of in my That's kind

663
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: of what I took on is like Christians don't drink.

664
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: And so then when he was having a beer, I

665
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: was like, oh, like he's demonstrating to me that you

666
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: actually can. It doesn't have to be like getting like

667
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: I just I was kind of learning like from him,

668
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: like you can have this very like measured so like

669
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: I would, I'm like I can, I'll start like having

670
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: a glass of wine at dinner or like, you know,

671
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: I'd have a beer with him, and so it was

672
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: just kind of became something that like on our date

673
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: night or when we were during that phase of dating,

674
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: like we would just enjoy having a meal and having

675
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: a drink. But it was never more than that, never

676
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: more than two drinks. So but it just kind of

677
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: slowly entered back in and I was like, all right, this,

678
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: I can do this. You know. It really wasn't I

679
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: didn't think much of it other than I kind of

680
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: liked that he could kind of he was demonstrating to

681
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: me that, you know, and it wasn't an issue for him,

682
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: like he was he had left the drunkenness behind and

683
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: it was just you know, something fun, you know, fun

684
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 2: and relaxing, but there was still that association, you know,

685
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 2: it was still.

686
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: Did you feel any like was there any kind of

687
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: check you know in your heart like when you started

688
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: again or or did you were you like no, like

689
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: at that point there was freedom. I felt fine about it.

690
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: Like what was your what do you feel like truly

691
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: was going on inside?

692
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question.

693
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: Because I definitely like observed it, Like I was like

694
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: when when we first like you know, started dating like

695
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 2: in a in a and then we got serious.

696
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: We dated for a year and then we're engaged.

697
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: So it was like I definitely observed it, and I

698
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: was like, but it was kind of like an informed

699
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: and I remember like even like I'm sure, I like

700
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: prayed about it and was just like but so there.

701
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was like a check in my spirit,

702
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: but it was definitely like is this is this what

703
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: I want to do? But but then I was like

704
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: it's fine, you know, I just it was so I

705
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 2: kind of was like just you know, experimenting with it,

706
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: I guess because alcohol really had not been a part

707
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: of my life for so long at that point, so

708
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: it seemed harmless. I think it wasn't like, yeah, I'm

709
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: choosing to enter into sin. Like, it wasn't like that.

710
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: It was just like, yeah, I mean interesting, like I'll

711
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: test this out, like yeah, and then it was like

712
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: it was it was fine and like we we I mean,

713
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: I would say it was fine, like not knowing that,

714
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: but for me personally, the door was opening back up

715
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: to something. Yeah, But like I didn't see it that

716
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: way at the time. It was like, well, I'm just

717
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: an adult living. I'm a committed Christian. I love the Lord.

718
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: Like we're going into a life of ministry. And and

719
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: you might you might relate to this or maybe some

720
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: listeners who are in ministry. But sometimes ministry can feel

721
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: like pressurized, so you almost look for ways to like relax,

722
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: you know, you almost look for ways to not to

723
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: not be so serious. And I think there was a

724
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: component because it was my first it was my first

725
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: call to ministry when I worked on the as a

726
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: campus minister, and I was I was always like in

727
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: the in the depth with college students and you know,

728
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: and and and there's times when you just sort of

729
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: like want to not be so serious. That's like the

730
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: human side is like, you know, I just need to

731
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: like relax and you know. And so in Noah, my

732
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: husband was was really he's like he was like my

733
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: comfort and he's his very name means like rest and comfort,

734
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: and so we would just kind of like and it

735
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: really wasn't around the alcohol, but it was just kind

736
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: of like looking for what I guess for me, just

737
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: having ways to kind of like relax and not be

738
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: so serious all the time was a tendency.

739
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: I was already noticing. And I also's all in hindsight, yes,

740
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 3: And I talked.

741
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: About this in my book, is that I think there

742
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: is a way to view alcohol in the East Coast

743
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: that's very interesting, and I think different regions of the country,

744
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, definitely, you know, from Wisconsin, right, like the

745
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: drunkest state in the Union, the drunkest counties, right. Yes.

746
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: But then there's this interesting part I think in about

747
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: how wine, especially he's viewed on the East Coast. It's

748
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: kind of like a sophisticated online like every you know,

749
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: I was, you know, we'd go to a small group

750
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: in New York City and everyone would bring a bottle

751
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: of wine, like you just did, right, And so there's

752
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: almost kind of like this East Coast sophistication on wine

753
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: mentality that you're then battling and grappling.

754
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: With absolutely, and that's that's kind of that's that's spot on,

755
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: and that's that's kind of what it was. And we

756
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: moved to England after that, and we our church event

757
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: and christy ours bar and our friend would tell you

758
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: who lives in England, it's very much a part of

759
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: the culture there and like churches serve serve wine, you know,

760
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: they serve port and sherry. They at our seminary college

761
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: that we studied at, you know, there was always dinner

762
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: dinners where you know, wine and all those little post

763
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: pre and post dinner drinks were being served. It was

764
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 2: not a thing to even think twice about seeing alcohol

765
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: and a Christian event in In England, the public houses,

766
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: the pubs, you know, was a very big part of

767
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: the social scene. So when we moved there, we got

768
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: married and moved there, it was just like you just

769
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: kind of like fold in to the culture. So that's

770
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: a really good point that different places in the world

771
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: and different parts of the United States have different cultures

772
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: around and levels of acceptance even in Christian circles right

773
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: around drinking.

774
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: So okay, so you you kind of then and you're

775
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: talking about moving moving to England, so alcohol is now

776
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: like what would you say your relationship with alcohol is

777
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: at this point in your life? Like is it is

778
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: it now just a glass of wine at dinner? Is it?

779
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: Like where does anything start creeping in? Or maybe there's

780
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: there's you know, no drunkenness, but yet there's a conviction

781
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: what kind of starts to happen?

782
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, when I look back and that I

783
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: mean I was a very I was a high and.

784
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: Hyper like regulator.

785
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: I think you could say like I was very like, okay,

786
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 2: like we can have our I was always I was

787
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: ever managing, like we couldn't go to the pub like

788
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: three days a week, it only could be two, Like

789
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: and if it was two, you have two pints, you

790
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: can't have three pints. Like it was always I was

791
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: always making sure that it was like it was. It

792
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: was like it was in a box in a way,

793
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 2: yeah kind of, and as long as it the beast

794
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: stayed tame. I mean again, this is in hindsight, so

795
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: like I can see this now. I didn't even know

796
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: the extent to which it was taking up mental real estate,

797
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: like heart real estate, Like I didn't even know at

798
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: the time. But like I look back on that and

799
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: I was ever Like my husband would be like, oh,

800
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: we can go to the pub tonight. I'm like, no,

801
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: We're going to go on Friday because that's our that's

802
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: our pub night, like not not like every night. I

803
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: was really aware of not letting it. Yeah I can

804
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: go every night, you know. So I think it was

805
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: just so that tells me that I think, you know,

806
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: there was there was management around it, so I knew

807
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: that if I let it get to an every night thing.

808
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: I was very aware like if you drink more, if

809
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: the more you drink, the more you're gonna want to drink.

810
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: So like I tried to keep it tame. So there was,

811
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: but there it wasn't a level of conviction like oh,

812
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be doing this, or we're sinning or we're

813
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: hiding from something. No, not at all. It was like

814
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: we were just having our Friday night at the pub.

815
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 2: We'd have our fish and chips and our pint and

816
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: and then like really go home. It wasn't like we

817
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: were doing anything wrong or like at all by standards

818
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 2: of where we were living and just by if you observed,

819
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, we were just doing what every average person

820
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: would do within very much within like a reasonable place.

821
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't say I had conviction at that point,

822
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: but I was managing it so it wouldn't get to

823
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: a point. So there was like already quite a lot

824
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: of management around it.

825
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 1: And I think you bring up a good point too,

826
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: And I know this is in hindsight, but but it's

827
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: an important hindsight, which is all of that management takes

828
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: up a lot of real estate, right, like in your

829
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: mind and in your heart. And I think, you know,

830
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: one of the most important things that I hope people

831
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: get when they read my book, and I think when

832
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: they read your story as well, is that it's not

833
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: about the amount of alcohol you're drinking. You can realize

834
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: that you have and I love you know how you

835
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: talk about this because you use Saint Augustine as well,

836
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: But you can have a disordered love, yes, and it's

837
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 1: not something that looks like a quote unquote traditional addiction.

838
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: So so talk about that aspect of bit.

839
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.

840
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I discovered that you would frame like we use

841
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: similar framing in some of our that we talk about. Sorry, yeah,

842
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: because that's what it was for me, Like it just

843
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: it was it was ever trying to like tame tame

844
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 2: this this love. But then like realizing that my relationship

845
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: with alcohol was like was more, it was more what

846
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: do you call it? Like it was more entangled than

847
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: I thought it was. And like if you think about

848
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: like week to week, like I would never miss a

849
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: trip to the pub when we were living in England,

850
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: Like we would never miss a date night without having

851
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 2: some drinks, like it was. It was definitely a fixture

852
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: in our week, but it was like it was being tamed.

853
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: So but but when I started to realize it wasn't

854
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: until like my mom died in twenty seventeen. I kind

855
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 2: of had some things that happened later on once I

856
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: started having kids and my mom died, and I realized

857
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 2: that I was kind of like using alcohol in a

858
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: in a more in a more pronounced way than I

859
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: ever wanted to be again, and realized that I actually,

860
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: even if I wanted to stop, I didn't know that

861
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 2: I could.

862
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: What did that look like when you say you were

863
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: using it in a more pronounced way than than you

864
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: wanted to What did that look like?

865
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: Well, like, you know, after I first noticed it, After

866
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: after my mom died, we were very very close. She

867
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 2: she got cancer and fought a three year battle and

868
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: it was just very unexpected for our family. She was

869
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 2: a very healthy person. And so that was like a

870
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: big bamboozle in my life. That was the first person

871
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: that I that I lost that to death that was really.

872
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 3: Close to me.

873
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: Of course, it's your it's your mom. We talked every

874
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: day on the phone. That same year, I had become

875
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: a mom so like I was entering into motherhood when

876
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: my motherhood was when my mother was going, uh to

877
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 2: be with the Lord. So it was just this like

878
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: great exchange, like becoming a mom and then having my

879
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: mom the earth was was pretty intense, and it was

880
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: it was.

881
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: It was tough.

882
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 2: And so I remember going to a wedding a few

883
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: months after my mom died and my daughter was I

884
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: think eight months old. I flew across the world, went

885
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: to this wedding of my dearest friend. I was in

886
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: the wedding and I had a babysitter for the wedding

887
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: and I was like, I just they kept topping out

888
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: my glass and I let them. And that was the

889
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: first time that I experienced like a hangover the next

890
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: day and I the shame was just like so palpable,

891
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: and I, yeah, I overdid it. I just kind of

892
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: was like I was in this place in my heart

893
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: that was just like I don't care, like I'm just

894
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: I'm I just need something like I need this, I

895
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: need this, and I let myself yeah, and I you know,

896
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I was going through a tough time,

897
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: but like that was the first time that I was like, wow,

898
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: this is uh, this is interesting because like I could

899
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: sometimes step back and be like I thought I was

900
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: free from this, but now I'm like turning to it again.

901
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was just it was so that's that's what,

902
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 2: you know, That's just one snapshot. But then like having

903
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: kids kind of going. I've had four kids in the

904
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: last ten years, so like eight years, so you can imagine, like,

905
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: you know, I'm either like pregnant or nursing somebody the right,

906
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, for the last eight years, and it's been

907
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: the greatest joy of my life. But it has been

908
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: a little bit of a yoyo and like a roller coaster,

909
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: like I'm pregnant, not drinking, and then I, you know,

910
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: give birth and I'm like wow, like I can have

911
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: my you know, have my my my glass of wine

912
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: or whatever.

913
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: You know. It's just kind of like a yo yo.

914
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 3: So that was like a whole nother phase.

915
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: We can talk more about that, but yeah, sorry, I

916
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: feel like I'm kind of rambling, but oh.

917
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: This is this is great because I think, you know,

918
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: it kind of brings us to you just describe well,

919
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: I think the yo yo is a good aspect of it,

920
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: right as someone who had given up and then it

921
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: creeps back in and then you start making compromises or

922
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: you start making decisions that you don't want to and

923
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: it's back and forth and back and forth. How do

924
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: you get to the point then where you know, and

925
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's way more details in your in

926
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: your post, but you know, where does our friend Christy

927
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: enter the story? You have the story about your fortieth

928
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: birthday as well, like where does where do you kind

929
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: of get to the point where you're back to where

930
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, now this, yeah, you know, you should

931
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: go back to one of the original questions, this is disordered?

932
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, disordered? Yeah.

933
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: So I was thirty two when just to give some

934
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: like time stamps on it, like I was thirty two

935
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 2: when my mom died, at thirty two when I had

936
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: my first child, and I was forty one when when

937
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: I found freedom again from alcohol. So I yeah, so

938
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: it kind of was just like for several years there,

939
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: it was just like the yo yo, because I would

940
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: be pregnant and experience like, oh this is great, Like

941
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: I actually I feel like being pregnant was the only

942
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: thing that would actually like help me to like just

943
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 2: completely get alcohol out of my life.

944
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: So for the nine months it was just like this

945
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 3: is awesome.

946
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: And my husband would you know, the second, third, and

947
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: fourth child, he went in solidarity with me, so we

948
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: would like have this like amazing time and we were

949
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: both like should we even go back to drinking? Like

950
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: we would have that like conversation and then we like

951
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 2: would but like we were like, this is amazing.

952
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 3: Like so we'd have that experience four times, you know.

953
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 2: And so then you have I had my precious babes,

954
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 2: and you know, loved being a mom, loved being a parent,

955
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: loved you know, everything about it.

956
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 3: But I did have this sense.

957
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 2: Of like I earned this, you know, celebrate you know,

958
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 2: celebration was closely tied with alcohol. Ye, so I would

959
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: kind of go into a phase of like, you know,

960
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: again highly regulated, but like hey, at a New Year's Eve,

961
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: I can have you know, I can have Champaigne, and

962
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: I can after coming off of the nine months of

963
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: you know, giving your body to something else, you kind

964
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 2: of feel like wooh, liberation, right, So, so really was

965
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: that kind of mentality like liberation like and it was

966
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: never like getting drunk or anything like that, but it

967
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 2: was just kind of like turning like this, Yeah, the

968
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: disordered love of just kind of like loving it a

969
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: little too much and like wanting it a little too much,

970
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: and like I started noticing at one point, Like so

971
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 2: it was our So our rhythm of our year is

972
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: that we work six days a week here and then

973
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: we we work a year round, and then for five

974
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: weeks in the summer, we go home to our home

975
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: country and we it's called home leave, and you basically,

976
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: you know, just go for five weeks and we stay

977
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: with our families and have an incredible time in the US.

978
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: Over the years, Like the summertime, my husband's family has

979
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: a lake house, so we're out on the boat. We're

980
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: doing the lake thing. My family lives in Montana and

981
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 2: the mountains. There's definitely like a cocktail hour, like every night,

982
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 2: Like it's just like we're home, we're connecting with home,

983
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 2: and like it's just fun. But like there's a cocktail

984
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: hour as a part of it, you know. So we

985
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: would just kind of get into this, you know, over

986
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: the years for our summer breaks, we would kind of

987
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: go home and just like alcohol would kind of be

988
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: a part of our trip. So it was twenty twenty

989
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: one when I first it was after the pandemic. We

990
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: hadn't gone home the previous year, so we were going home

991
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: this year. My dad got remarried that summer, so there

992
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: was a lot of emotions around it, and I just

993
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 2: I had that summer where I was like alcohol has

994
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 2: a grip on me, like it's too much, and I

995
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: felt so much shame. I talk a lot about how

996
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: shame just kept me kept me quiet for a long time.

997
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I could talk about it with anybody,

998
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: Like it was just that shame just silenced me. And

999
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: like I was still working in you know, in ministry

1000
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: of still doing a lot of stuff, but I just

1001
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 2: had this area of my life that I didn't feel

1002
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 2: great about and I felt a lot of shame around

1003
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: it because I already knew what freedom felt like. So

1004
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 2: it was twenty twenty one that that summer was kind

1005
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 2: of just like ooh, this is like I kind of

1006
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: had that awareness. But I feel like the Lord, I

1007
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: don't know, in his gentleness and kindness, I don't know.

1008
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 2: I feel like this is how it's been when God's

1009
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: calling me to kind of like look at something. It's

1010
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 2: very gentle, like he opens my eyes, but like it's

1011
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: very like it wasn't beating you up. It wasn't. It

1012
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: wasn't God like stop that now, or like because I

1013
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: wasn't like outwardly it wasn't. Yeah, I kind of ping

1014
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 2: pong back and forth, was like, this is the problem.

1015
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: It's not a problem. It's a problem, it's not a problem.

1016
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 2: And so yeah, that twenty twenty one. But then twenty

1017
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: twenty two, I was pregnant with my fourth so that

1018
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: was out the summer, and then twenty twenty three was

1019
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 2: where I was like, I remember talking to a girlfriend

1020
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: on the phone and she was just like, Ellie, you

1021
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: don't feel you don't seem like yourself, and I was like,

1022
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: I know, and I just was like, I just I

1023
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: knew that alcohol was part of it because I just

1024
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: felt like it was.

1025
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 3: It was getting in the way of my relationship with God.

1026
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 2: It was getting in the way with my sense of confidence,

1027
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: my sense of calling, my sense of everything, like it

1028
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: was getting in the way. And I finally was just

1029
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 2: so again it was just like an awareness, but I

1030
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: wasn't really doing anything yet to change it.

1031
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: How do you let me pause there, because how do

1032
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: you describe to someone who's saying, you know, oh, okay,

1033
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: you guys you're not getting drunk. There's nothing wrong with

1034
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: your drinking. You know, you're you're you're just overly sensitive.

1035
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean it was getting in the way.

1036
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question. So I always

1037
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: talk a lot about like you have an external life

1038
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: and then you have the internal right and so like

1039
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 2: if you were to flip me inside out at that point,

1040
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 2: I mean, everything looked okay on the outside, but I

1041
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: was like kind of a mess on the inside, like

1042
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: I was. I was feeling like the shame, there was guilt,

1043
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: there was like I was just like I don't want

1044
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: to be living this life like I'm I'm I I.

1045
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: And there was one point where God kind of gave

1046
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: me this picture of like eating bread crumbs off of

1047
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: a table. It was like, I mean, I'm like I'm

1048
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: entering back into like the joy and the quality of life.

1049
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 2: I'm eating bread crumbs, and I'm like, I know there's

1050
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: this other I know that God called us to this

1051
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 2: life of joy and abundance and like fully serving Him

1052
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 2: and feeling like totally clear in your conscience, you know,

1053
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: totally clear in that freedom. That's what it feels like peace.

1054
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 2: You feel like there's no barriers. You're throwing off, you know,

1055
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: everything that hinders You're just like running your race, you know,

1056
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: and you're you're heading in the right direction. I knew

1057
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: that was possible and I'd experienced it, but I kind

1058
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 2: of had gone back to this like Breadcrumb's mentality, like

1059
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 2: I'm I'm seeking the drink and like I'm going to

1060
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 2: the drink to find joy again, and like I'm feeling

1061
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 2: really depressed when like the drinking is over and it

1062
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 2: has to be a whole nother week until I'm gonna.

1063
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 3: Get to do that again.

1064
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: Like it was kind of like I don't know, I

1065
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: just I just knew that it had kind of like

1066
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: somehow taken up more space and and my love for

1067
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 2: it had grown.

1068
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 3: And so that's what I mean. It was getting in

1069
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 3: the way.

1070
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: And that clouds your mind, That clouds your your thoughts,

1071
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 2: that clouds your your your emotions, that that affects everything, right,

1072
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 2: Like when you feel like all the gunk and the funk.

1073
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: It was just like gunk and I felt foggy. I

1074
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 2: didn't feel clear. I didn't there was no creativity flowing

1075
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 2: in my life. Okay, I have to say, I I

1076
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 2: have babies, I had little kids. I was kind of

1077
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: in that phase. You know, I'm still in the trenches

1078
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: of parenthood. I have a two year old, a four

1079
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 2: year old, a six year old, and a eight year old,

1080
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: so I'm very much still in the trenches. But like, yeah,

1081
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: so that I have to say that, because you know,

1082
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: most people would be like, well, yeah, you feel foggy

1083
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: when you're you know, you have four kids. But like

1084
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: it was an added level because there was this piece

1085
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: that I didn't feel good about it and I wasn't

1086
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 2: really addressing it, but the Lord was like putting his

1087
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: finger on it, like look at this. You need to

1088
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: look at this again.

1089
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: And that's why I like to talk, you know, like

1090
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't make any qualms about

1091
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: my book, you know, audiences Christians mainly, and because I

1092
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: think you and I and hopefully people listening to this.

1093
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,479
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're not a Christian, I'm so glad

1094
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: you're listening, like awesome, please keep listening. But but I'm

1095
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: not going to be shocked if some of this doesn't

1096
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: make sense to you, because I think we can talk

1097
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: about this in a way that non Christians can't. And

1098
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is I think what you're

1099
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: talking about is it comes back to James four seventeen,

1100
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: which is like, if we know what's right and we

1101
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: don't do it, it's sin.

1102
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 3: Right.

1103
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: And so if like the Lord, the Lord hasn't called

1104
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: us to just do the bare minimum, right, Like the

1105
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: Lord hasn't just called us like just to not get drunk, right,

1106
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: there's plenty of people that he's called that says, I

1107
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: want you to give this up because I have this X,

1108
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: Y and Z that's better for you, right, Yeah, And

1109
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: so what I'm not saying, I don't think you're saying,

1110
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: is that that no Christian can drink. But by goodness,

1111
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: if if if the Lord is telling you to give

1112
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: it up, you are going to feel foggy. You don't

1113
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: have to be like like, you don't have to be

1114
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: getting drunk every night to feel foggy. Like if he's

1115
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: telling you to give it up, like you gotta give

1116
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: it up, Yes, exactly, No wonder you're foggy, right. So

1117
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: I just that kind of goes back to the earlier

1118
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: question of of the disordered the disordered love. It's like, yeah,

1119
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: the disordered love can look like it can look a

1120
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: variety of ways and for you. The disordered love was

1121
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm being told to give this up. I mean, this

1122
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: has a hold on my heart. Yeah, I'm not getting drunk.

1123
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm not doing X, Y and Z. But I

1124
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: I if I keep running away from what the Lord's

1125
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: telling me to do, I'm going to feel this way.

1126
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And I think yeah, I mean, and it

1127
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: really was. You know, sometimes we do have things in

1128
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: our lives that we we we for whatever reason, we

1129
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: don't feel like we can address yet, and you know,

1130
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: there's timing to things, and and and it was it

1131
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: was a couple of years and but but at the

1132
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 2: same time, God gives us, you know, free will and choice,

1133
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: and like, you know, he's working with us.

1134
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: But like I knew that.

1135
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: He was kind of put tapping my shoulder for a

1136
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 2: couple of years, and I just wasn't ready to face it.

1137
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 3: And so and I didn't have the tools.

1138
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: I didn't have, you know, I I'm I have to

1139
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: be like compassionate on myself because I didn't have the tools.

1140
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 3: I didn't have what I know now.

1141
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 2: And so God brought people into my life, which brings

1142
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: me to you know, kind of my fortieth birthday. I

1143
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: knew that so This was twenty four, twenty twenty four

1144
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 2: or three, and it was my fortieth birthday. And I

1145
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: was like and the and the Lord, and I was

1146
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: kind of coming back into like seeking the Lord really

1147
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 2: in the word really praying, you know, like and it

1148
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: was just like the Holy spirits prompting like you need

1149
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: to share this with Kate and Kelsey, like those were

1150
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: my best friends, my dear soul friends, my soul sisters

1151
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: we call each other. And so I flew to California

1152
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 2: to see them. We had this amazing time and at

1153
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: the end of it, I like had to kind of

1154
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: eke out the words like guys that have a confession

1155
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: and like they were like huh, like what is she

1156
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: going to say?

1157
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: You know?

1158
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: And I was like, I just think that alcohol has

1159
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: become a bigger part of my life than I wanted

1160
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 2: to be. I think I need to look at my

1161
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: relationship with alcohol again. And I was just like to

1162
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 2: eke out those words.

1163
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: It felt it.

1164
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: Felt so hard, like I could not I almost could

1165
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 2: not do it, like it was and like why, I mean,

1166
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: I guess for me, it's like you you you fear judgment,

1167
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: You feel like you're going to be misunderstood, you feel

1168
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: like they're going to think the worst of you. And

1169
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: this is what happens in the church, right, I share

1170
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 2: your you know, I share your your passion and your

1171
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: heart to want to, you know, bring this into the

1172
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: church in a sense of like, this is what sanctification is,

1173
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: This is what the life of discipleship is. We have

1174
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: to put it in the broader context of discipleship is

1175
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: that we have seasons where we you know, we are

1176
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: our temptation is is this or we we get pulled

1177
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 2: in that way. It's it's this fallen world that we

1178
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: have to kind of keep keep, you know, kind of

1179
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: whacking at it like whack a mole, you know, kind

1180
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 2: of whackable. I mean, we need community to be able

1181
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 2: to do that, not these stigmas around these certain things.

1182
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: And so I just think, as I've reflected on that,

1183
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 2: I think that for a couple of years, like I

1184
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 2: was in a couple of accountability groups, I had a

1185
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: I have a women Bible study that makes meets weekly.

1186
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: I could not share this. I couldn't share it. I

1187
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: was just so I was cloaked in shame. Like it's

1188
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: just how it felt. I just felt like.

1189
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: It's such a tool of the devil, like I shame. Yeah.

1190
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like I can't share this like it

1191
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: felt and you know, it just and that's out of

1192
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 2: like it's out of person. I mean, it was like

1193
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 2: way bigger in my mind and than it should have been.

1194
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, that's a tool of the enemy for sure,

1195
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 2: Like so keeping me silent, keep me quiet, not talking.

1196
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: But after I made that confession, it was like I

1197
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: felt lighter. I felt like there was hope. They just

1198
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 2: came around me. They they loved on me. They were

1199
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 2: just like, you know, it's you're gonna get You're gonna

1200
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 2: you're gonna get through this. God's gonna be with you.

1201
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 2: Like they were just like really supportive and like really loving.

1202
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: So then my friend who I confessed to, she was like, oh,

1203
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 2: and by the way, my cousin, Christy, it was like

1204
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: a sober coach and she's like gone through this whole transformation.

1205
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: She's writing now, she's going to publish a book. And

1206
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 2: I was like Christy, like I had met Christy years

1207
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: and years ago, but like before she was a Christian

1208
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: and I was just like that is so cool, Like

1209
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 2: I was so happy for her. But then I was

1210
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: also like, oh, my like, but I was just like

1211
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: I don't know could I. I couldn't imagine myself even

1212
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: like reaching out to her because it was like still

1213
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: this like scary thing. But long story short, like I

1214
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 2: I did reach out to her on Instagram and I

1215
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 2: was like I just was observing what she was doing

1216
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: on Instagram and then she direct message me and say, hey, Alie,

1217
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: I see It's like I was like, oh, I know,

1218
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: I'm like no, I was supposed to be like I

1219
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: literally was just gonna like be observing for a while,

1220
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 2: like from a distance, and she like got in there

1221
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 2: and she was like hey Allie, yeah, yeah exactly. So

1222
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 2: and it was just we had a call like the

1223
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 2: next week and she was just like hey and like

1224
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, and we talked about and I said, and

1225
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: this is around where the Lord I feel like put

1226
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 2: on my heart to do a forty day fast in

1227
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 2: the New Year. January eighth was when I started. That's

1228
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 2: my date, my significant date, January eighth, twenty twenty four.

1229
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was twenty twenty three was when we connected.

1230
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 2: And she was like, oh, funny, I'm writing a book

1231
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 2: called the Forty Day Alcohol Fast, and so like do

1232
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 2: you want to be an early reader for me and

1233
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 2: then we'll exchange some coaching session.

1234
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 3: It was great.

1235
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 2: It was just like we work something out and I

1236
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 2: got to read her the early draft of her book,

1237
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: which I did for the forty days. And that's really

1238
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 2: what helped me find freedom is having that resource, you know,

1239
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 2: meditating on scripture, inviting the spirit into it, you know,

1240
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: reflecting all the questions, you know, just really trying to

1241
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 2: understand my own relationship with alcohol that I had never

1242
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 2: done before. Like I had never really looked at my

1243
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 2: disordered and dysfunctional relationationship with alcohol. I have alcoholism in

1244
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 2: my family. I have all kinds of things. I have

1245
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 2: sister siblings who have been ravaged by alcohol, and like

1246
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 2: I've never I've always been the one that's like kind

1247
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 2: of been the moderator. Like so I had never really

1248
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 2: looked into it. But really looking into it, I could

1249
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 2: see like, yeah, I have a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol,

1250
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 2: and I don't want this a part of my life.

1251
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: It's a snare for me. It's like the Bible uses

1252
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 2: the term like a snare, like actually it'll actually trip

1253
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: you up. And that is just for me. That is

1254
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 2: what alcohol is. It's a snare and it will trip

1255
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 2: me up, and if I choose to go back to it,

1256
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: it's going to be a matter of time before it

1257
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: just gets back in there and makes it makes an

1258
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: idol of my heart.

1259
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: Essentially, we'll be right back after this.

1260
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 3: So it's an addictive stuff.

1261
01:05:55,320 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: Since yeah, yeah, that Christy is so good about talking

1262
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: about and you talk about this in your piece, and

1263
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: I think it's good to bring up here, which is

1264
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: you know obviously, so my book is called Confessions of

1265
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: Christian Alcoholic, right, and so I use the term alcoholic.

1266
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: You know, I don't, And there's a whole chapter in

1267
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: my book where I talk about you know why actually

1268
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: that's not the best term. But you know, my joke

1269
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: is like Confessions of a Christian with Alcohol Use Disorder

1270
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: isn't a catchy title, and it doesn't sell books and

1271
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't help people find freedom. But but you talked

1272
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:32,919
Speaker 1: about like, you know, because you couldn't and didn't meet

1273
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: the you know, what I would say is the old

1274
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: definition of alcoholic that in a sense that kept you

1275
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,959
Speaker 1: maybe stuck for a little longer. And Christy is great

1276
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: about you know, if you don't want to use labels,

1277
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 1: don't use labels, but talk about maybe to the person

1278
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: who's listening, who's like, well, yeah, I don't I'm not

1279
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: getting drunk. I'm not meeting the I don't meet that

1280
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: any any old definition, new definition. How do you navigate

1281
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: the terminology in your life?

1282
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think.

1283
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: So there's like a couple of different ways I want

1284
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 2: to approach to answer this question.

1285
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 3: Because the first thing.

1286
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 2: Is, like, as I've learned more about alcohol and like

1287
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 2: the effects on the brain and the body, like, I

1288
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: definitely there's an addiction piece in here. I mean that

1289
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 2: I have to acknowledge, you know, like my body and

1290
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 2: my brain was addicted to the feeling of relief that

1291
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 2: I got from alcohol. There's a chemical thing happening, and

1292
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 2: there's actually chemicals being released as I drink that I

1293
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: wasn't really aware that was happening. So, you know, I

1294
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 2: do think the alcohol is a highly addictive substance, and like,

1295
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 2: so we can't just remove addiction, the word addiction from

1296
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 2: the conversation because it is addictive in nature right anytime,

1297
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: and it can be any number of things. Food, it

1298
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 2: can be you know, watching things, it can be pornography,

1299
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: all these things. We know that there's something going on

1300
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: in the brain that keeps us going back because it

1301
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 2: releases dopamine. So like we know that now. There's a

1302
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 2: lot of research thankfully on that now and so we

1303
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: can be aware of that. So so I definitely think

1304
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 2: there's like I'm not I'm not afraid to use the

1305
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 2: word addiction.

1306
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 3: I think we have.

1307
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 2: We all have addictive tendencies and maybe to varying degrees

1308
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 2: and maybe to different things. So I think we have

1309
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: to like learn how to get comfortable talking about that

1310
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: in the church, Like we all have addictions that we

1311
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 2: need to.

1312
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 3: Like, but I am I what.

1313
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 2: I necessarily term myself an alcoholic, And no, I wouldn't.

1314
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: And I know that's kind of like an old way

1315
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 2: of doing it now and yeah, you know there's new

1316
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 2: there's new stuff on that now. But so the way

1317
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: that I see it is, you know, I think when

1318
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 2: we're really in a space, I can see a direct

1319
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 2: correlation honestly, like with my relationship with God and like

1320
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: my actions, like I wasn't really I mean, for for

1321
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 2: several years, I've kind of been in this a little

1322
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 2: bit of like a wilderness spiritually, like I didn't have

1323
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 2: my seeking practices. I mean, I was reading my Bible

1324
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 2: and praying. But I feel like just in these last

1325
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 2: this last year, I'm kind of getting back to a

1326
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 2: place of like, like what you would you know, what

1327
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: the Bible calls and what I've heard you talk about

1328
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 2: is abiding. You know, that's one of your things, is

1329
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 2: like really abiding and like getting up in those early

1330
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 2: morning hours, like structuring your whole life around being with

1331
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: your Lord and having that kind of intimacy with God

1332
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 2: where we're opening ourselves up to him. I write a

1333
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 2: lot about the heart and the spiritual life, that it's

1334
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: really about what's in our heart, and that God will

1335
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: reveal the things of our heart, even the hidden sins

1336
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 2: and iniquities, and that we open ourselves up and then

1337
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit give him, give him permission really to

1338
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 2: kind of like point those things out, and then we

1339
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 2: get to repent of those things and we get to

1340
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 2: turn away from them. And so I would just say,

1341
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 2: you know, for me, that's what the dysfunctional side of

1342
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: alcohol was, Just like that when I'm spending time with

1343
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: a Lord and I'm saying, God, you know, search my heart,

1344
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 2: just whatever is in my life that is is either

1345
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 2: like on a throne and it shouldn't be whatever is

1346
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 2: like somehow disordered, and it shouldn't be like show me that, Lord,

1347
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 2: and I open myself up, and the Holy Spirit is

1348
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 2: so faithful and so gentle and so kind to kind

1349
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 2: of just like show me those things. And so I say, God,

1350
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 2: I just I want to let go of this alcohol thing.

1351
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 2: I don't want this to be having a grip on

1352
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 2: my heart. I don't want this anymore. I give it

1353
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 2: up to you. I turn from it, I repent from it.

1354
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 2: And then there's this whole process that you know, helped

1355
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: me to kind of actually get free. But that's how

1356
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 2: I would frame it is just kind of like things

1357
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 2: in our lives that we live in a fallen world.

1358
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 2: We live in a dark world. We live in we're

1359
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 2: constantly being barbarded by different messages, and we can easily

1360
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: get sidetracked, distracted off track, you know, and so we

1361
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 2: need we need to go back to that secret place

1362
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 2: with God where he's able to kind of we're getting

1363
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 2: quiet enough where he can point out those things. So

1364
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: for me, it's definitely like in the context of discipleship

1365
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 2: and sanctification, as you say, it's like it's a lifelong thing,

1366
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying I'm free from alcohol forever. I

1367
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: mean I hope that, I hope that I can ditch

1368
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 2: it once and for all. But like, this is a

1369
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 2: part of my journey, my spiritual journey, and it's it's

1370
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 2: a long game. It's a marathon. It's not like a

1371
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 2: sprint like Okay, check, that's done. Like I already know

1372
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: that it can come back into my life. Yeah, just

1373
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 2: like anything else. And so it's like it's a discipleship.

1374
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: It's the journey of discipleship, the long obedience in the

1375
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 2: same direction. That's what Eugene Peterson says, you know.

1376
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 3: And it's just that idea.

1377
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 2: And we're with community, we're with others, and like, hey,

1378
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 2: I'm struggling with this. Hey I'm struggling with that. Like hey,

1379
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm really you know, I'm I'm having lustful thoughts about

1380
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 2: another man, Like I need to confess that, like you

1381
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 2: know whatever. It is like having a community where you

1382
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: feel safe and where you feel like I can actually

1383
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 2: make a and you have to discern who those people

1384
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 2: are in your life. But having that trusting environment and

1385
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 2: so for me, this is like, yeah, it's not like

1386
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 2: I need to say I'm an addict. But I'm like

1387
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 2: that in the context of my spiritual journey, Like alcohol

1388
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 2: is not a healthy thing for me right now.

1389
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 3: So it just, yeah, it's a snare.

1390
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 2: In my path and I'm aware of that now, and

1391
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 2: so yeah, I'm going after God without it.

1392
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to ask you about in

1393
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: this you know, hopefully I'm not speaking a turn here,

1394
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 1: but there's you know, when you and I first started

1395
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: talking about this topic, I think I invited you on

1396
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: the podcast or I or you had talked about writing

1397
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: the piece, and i'd encourage you to write it, and

1398
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 1: I think there was some trepidation knowing that, like, hey,

1399
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: the church struggles with this like this, you know, like

1400
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: I say, the story. They love stories of salvation, but

1401
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: they can't they don't know what to do with stories

1402
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: of sanctification, especially messy sanctification. And you're like, and I

1403
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: think you just had to in the good sense of

1404
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: the word. It's like you're like, I have to count

1405
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 1: the cost. This isn't your term, this is my term.

1406
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: But you're like, I have to count the cost. Like,

1407
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: my husband's a pastor. We're in ministry here in the Philippines,

1408
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: and so tell me, explain to me how you got

1409
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: to the point and what you had to then finally

1410
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: kind of conclude and realize that why are you telling

1411
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 1: your story? Now?

1412
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1413
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,799
Speaker 2: I mean well, Substack has opened the whole world.

1414
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 3: First of all.

1415
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 2: I mean I haven't felt like I wanted to go

1416
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 2: out on the mountaintops and like necessarily proclaim it. I've

1417
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 2: kind of It's kind of been a very private and

1418
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 2: like intimate thing for me and like just you know,

1419
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 2: my few good friends know about it. But it's like,

1420
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 2: you know, I haven't, so I didn't seek out like

1421
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 2: telling my story. But at the same time, I've gained

1422
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 2: courage and knowing that I think it's a real I

1423
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 2: can fall into the like image management, you know, thing

1424
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 2: of Christianity, especially in ministry, and like I don't. I

1425
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 2: feel like God has called us to be, you know,

1426
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 2: to walk in humility and to walk in you know,

1427
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 2: just like complete integrity with what's happening. And so I've

1428
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: always been a person like an open book, like sharing

1429
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 2: what God does in my life so that others may benefit.

1430
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 2: It's always you know, I've always been an open book,

1431
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 2: but I didn't I don't know. I guess this one

1432
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 2: feels like now that I'm over the hump. I couldn't

1433
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 2: talk about it for a while because I was You know,

1434
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: when you're going through something, it's like you have to

1435
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 2: go through it with the Lord, you have to go

1436
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 2: through it with your trusted people, and then like once

1437
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 2: God brings you to the other side, then you I

1438
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 2: think there's a discernment and like a timing to share

1439
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 2: our things, especially in leadership. I wouldn't just air this

1440
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: in the middle of it and like, ooh, I don't.

1441
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, but but now that I'm through it,

1442
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 2: I can actually say God delivered me. I'm testifying. We

1443
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 2: have to testify. It is by His grace and his

1444
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 2: strength that He brought me to this place. So why

1445
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 2: would I not share it? Right? I mean, so there's that,

1446
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 2: but but yeah, I mean I definitely had it. This

1447
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 2: is like my second time sharing on a podcast. So

1448
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: it's like it's kind of like working out, like and

1449
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 2: you don't you don't often know what your story is

1450
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 2: until God like helps you articulate it, right, And so

1451
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,799
Speaker 2: like when you messaged me, I had I had written

1452
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 2: my note on substack. It was like on notes, it

1453
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: was like January eighth was my one year of like

1454
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 2: being alcohol free. And I didn't set out to like

1455
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 2: be alcohol free, but I was like, wow, I made

1456
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 2: it to a year, like and so I shared it

1457
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 2: and I was like, I just I'm thankful for the

1458
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 2: people who helped me to get here, and of course

1459
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 2: to God. And then that's when you reached out and

1460
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I know, God's going to call

1461
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 2: me to like write a piece about it, but I

1462
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,559
Speaker 2: just I like kept putting it off because it just

1463
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 2: felt so like it's like you have to put it

1464
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 2: into words, you know, and you don't know. I've written one,

1465
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,559
Speaker 2: you know, I have one little Measley book that I

1466
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 2: wrote like a million years ago, so I know the

1467
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 2: writing process of like God writes through you as you

1468
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 2: do it, you know. And so I knew that I

1469
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 2: had to sit down, get my bum in the chair

1470
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 2: and like just do it with the Lord, you know,

1471
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 2: and kind of wrestle it out. And so I did

1472
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 2: that and it took It was hard work. It was like,

1473
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 2: I mean, part of it flowed out, but part of

1474
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, wanting to self protect and

1475
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 2: preserve and you know, but like wanting to be vulnerable

1476
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 2: at the same time, and like, you know, wrestling through

1477
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 2: the fears and like so all of that. So but

1478
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 2: I finally got to a point where it was like, yeah,

1479
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 2: I wrote the piece and press send. It was kind

1480
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: of like like but like you know what I was.

1481
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 2: So I was so encouraged by the response, like you know,

1482
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 2: people in my community and then also people just like

1483
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 2: you know on substack and the social media and stuff,

1484
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 2: where like it's people love real stories, you know, they

1485
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 2: love human stories. And I think even in Christian leadership,

1486
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 2: of course discerning the time and discerning it, but testifying

1487
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,680
Speaker 2: to those ways that God has has brought you to

1488
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 2: further levels of sanctification in your journey and you know,

1489
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: growing and we're called to maturity, we're called to wholeness,

1490
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 2: we're called to holiness, we're called to all these things.

1491
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 2: So it's like it's a process and so we need

1492
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 2: to testify not just like Okay, I've arrived like it

1493
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 2: it's no, we never arrived. We are ever walking step

1494
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 2: by step with the Lord, and there's different things that

1495
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 2: are going to come in to different degrees and hopefully

1496
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be like huge snares, but there

1497
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 2: are times where we just get tripped up and so

1498
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: it's helped me to kind of understand it that way.

1499
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I did have a little bit of

1500
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 2: fear and a little bit of trepidation, But like, I

1501
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 2: think what I'm learning is that as I'm more authentic

1502
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 2: and kind of real and like you know, of course

1503
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:15,799
Speaker 2: using wisdom, like I feel like I feel like God.

1504
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 2: You know, there's just God is glorified in that. Like

1505
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 2: God is glorified and it's not about me. It's not

1506
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 2: about my image, it's not about any of that. It's

1507
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 2: about Jesus like living in us and making himself, you know,

1508
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 2: be glorified through it all, through our mess, through our.

1509
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 3: Muck, and look at.

1510
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 2: Throughout the scriptures, all of our biblical heroes are like

1511
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 2: people who are just like messed up a lot. We

1512
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 2: just studied the life of Abraham and our church and

1513
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 2: it was just like oh my goodness, Like.

1514
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: Oh that dude was all it was like, you know,

1515
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 1: they talk about anything in the Hall of Faith, that

1516
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: dude had a hard time trusting.

1517
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 2: You know. I mean yeah, So it's kind of like

1518
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 2: putting all this on a level to like we're we

1519
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 2: are human and God is God and He's walking with

1520
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 2: us through these things. So but yeah, it's still you know,

1521
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 2: sometimes feels scary, feels risky. I still struggle with like

1522
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 2: worrying about what others think or what but I have

1523
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,879
Speaker 2: to also give that over, you know, and just surrender

1524
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 2: that and just say testifying to your goodness, Lord, your power.

1525
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 1: Well, I am so glad that you did write that piece.

1526
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people who are

1527
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 1: very glad you wrote that piece. And you know, you've

1528
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: been talking about your substack. If people do want to read,

1529
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll link that piece. But if they want

1530
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 1: to read more about what you're doing, where should they go?

1531
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think right now I'm most active on my

1532
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 2: substack publication Homes of Glory, so we can find me there.

1533
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 2: Also my Instagram Ali Kennedy Live is where you can

1534
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 2: find me. So yeah, I would love to connect with anyone.

1535
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if anything spoke to anyone, but it's

1536
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 2: just kind of like, in some ways, I feel like

1537
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 2: it's the first second draft of you know, of communicating

1538
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 2: in these things.

1539
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 3: So thanks for allowing me to come on and.

1540
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: Just I'm glad you were one of those early readers,

1541
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: if you will, of one of these early drafts. That's

1542
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: so that I don't. I do not take that lightly. Ali,

1543
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing your story, for making

1544
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 1: this happen on the literally the other side of the world,

1545
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,599
Speaker 1: like you are twelve hours away. It's like as opposite

1546
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: as we can get, and so I appreciate it. Thank

1547
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: you so much. I can't wait for I can't work

1548
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 1: to hear how other people are blessed by your story

1549
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 1: because I know I have been, so thank you for

1550
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:47,680
Speaker 1: the courage to tell it.

1551
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 2: Thanks John, Thanks for your questions to appreciate it.

1552
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 1: You know, here is my hope for you after listening

1553
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 1: to that podcast. My hope for you is that you

1554
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 1: will take Ali's story and use it as permission to

1555
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 1: be curious and ask questions about the things you're doing

1556
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 1: that maybe the Holy Spirit has started knocking on your

1557
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: heart about where you don't feel like you have to

1558
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 1: label it or you don't have to make some big

1559
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: admission now. Maybe you need to write like two weeks

1560
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: before I hit my rock bottom, I finally admitted I

1561
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,599
Speaker 1: was an alcoholic, Like I needed to do that right.

1562
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 1: But maybe the whole point of why you're listening to

1563
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 1: this or hearing this is that there is something in

1564
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:44,640
Speaker 1: your life that the Holy Spirit has been prompting you

1565
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 1: about and that you have been ignoring. And maybe Ali's

1566
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 1: story is the permission you need to say, you know what.

1567
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: I listened to that, and I know I realize that

1568
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 1: I need to take this series, and maybe it gives

1569
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: you permission to have a conversation with your friends or

1570
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 1: your loved ones or your spouse to say, you know, listen,

1571
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 1: I know this may seem odd, but I want to

1572
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:13,600
Speaker 1: talk to you about my phill in the blank. And

1573
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not trying to alarm you, but I

1574
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: feel like the Holy Spirit has been putting in this somewhere,

1575
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:23,440
Speaker 1: like I just hope that this podcast is your permission

1576
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: to do that. And so I thank Ali for telling

1577
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 1: her story because I think it's an important story in

1578
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 1: the what I will call the addiction space. And even

1579
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:38,679
Speaker 1: though she was not fall down drunk all the time,

1580
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:45,799
Speaker 1: it is important that those of us who are getting

1581
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: that prompting start asking those questions sooner rather than later,

1582
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: and before we get to that point. I can't remember

1583
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: if I've said this on a podcast, but as I'm

1584
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: developing some of these thoughts into something bigger, which I

1585
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 1: will reveal to you soon, enough is I've been calling

1586
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: the Gospel in early warning system. What I mean by

1587
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: that is the Gospel actually allows us to see addictions

1588
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 1: for what they are a lot sooner than the world does.

1589
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: The world says you have to meet this threshold generally

1590
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: quantity and frequency, whether that's drinking, whether that's poorn, whether

1591
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: that's whatnot right, But the Gospel says, hey, anything that's

1592
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: misordered is disordered. Right. So even if you're not getting

1593
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: drunk every night, but you have placed this in as

1594
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: on the pedestal of your life, then that's a problem

1595
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 1: that you need to address. It's an early warning system

1596
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: before it gets so bad. The Gospel helps you see, hey,

1597
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: take a take take a look at this. I'm more

1598
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm letting you know. And so that's that's what I

1599
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 1: think Ali's story helps us see. So if that resonated

1600
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 1: with you, if anything from this episode resonated with you,

1601
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 1: please share it. That's that's what I ask. You can

1602
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: like subscribe all the things, but please share it. That's

1603
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 1: what I'm asking. Once again, thankful to our partners at

1604
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:26,640
Speaker 1: Life Audio, lifeaudio dot com for helping keep this podcast

1605
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 1: going one hundred and ten thousand downloads strong, and I'm

1606
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,839
Speaker 1: so so grateful. If you want to watch this podcast,

1607
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: you can at the Veritas Daily dot com. The Veritasdaily

1608
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:40,480
Speaker 1: dot com, every single one of these podcasts is available

1609
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,679
Speaker 1: to watch. Love you all, We'll see you next week.