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Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Aaron Mullins Show. It is so great to

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Speaker 1: have your company. What a weekend. I don't know about

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Speaker 1: anyone else. It felt like Christmas? Did it feel like

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Speaker 1: Christmas to you? I get very excited when good things happen,

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Speaker 1: particularly when there aren't deaths of innocent people in the

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Speaker 1: pursuit of pulling off those good things. We've seen Maduro

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Speaker 1: arrested currently in New York City. Oh the irony, Hello Mom, Danny,

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Speaker 1: Oh the irony. The social media accounts of the White House,

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Speaker 1: end of Donald Trump. I mean, we are alive, my friends.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine, even two years ago, the kinds of

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Speaker 1: social media posts off the back of something as significant,

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Speaker 1: world changing, high stakes as what just occurred. And there's

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Speaker 1: like rap music, there's memes, there's like animals, there's rock music.

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Speaker 1: Like it is so insanely good. I run out of words.

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Speaker 1: And I made this point on X over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Anyone who is angry about the appropriateness of a social

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Speaker 1: media post but not angry about a murderous dictator who

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Speaker 1: has been responsible for the suffering and death of millions

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Speaker 1: has a serious, serious problem. There is so much to

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Speaker 1: get into. Tomorrow, I am going to get a former

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Speaker 1: Delta Force member who's going to take us through step

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Speaker 1: by step how they pulled that off. How they managed

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Speaker 1: to go into one of the most secure locations in

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Speaker 1: the world and pull out Maduro and pull out his

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Speaker 1: wife without so much as a scratch that we know

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Speaker 1: of yet. Interesting though, I did see something that kind

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Speaker 1: of inferred maybe Maduro was part of this and this

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Speaker 1: was an easier way for him to get out. Sounds

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Speaker 1: a bit conspiracy theory, but let's talk about it. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about it all. Of course, the Iranian people continue

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Speaker 1: to fight for their freedom. I've got two amazing guests

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Speaker 1: already locked in this week on that exact issue. We

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Speaker 1: cannot let it fade away. We cannot take our eyes away.

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Speaker 1: The significance of what is happening in Iran for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world is too big. It's too important.

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Speaker 1: We cannot let them just fade again, not when they've

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Speaker 1: been brave enough, not when people have already given their lives.

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Speaker 1: We cannot suddenly go, Okay, well we've got Madua, let's

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Speaker 1: walk away, and maybe in another year, maybe another two years,

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Speaker 1: we'll see what the Islamic regime's doing and another crack. No,

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Speaker 1: this is the time, this is the time. The Uranian

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Speaker 1: people have already shown they are up to the task,

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Speaker 1: but they need our help. So that will be a

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Speaker 1: big focus of the shows this week as well. But

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Speaker 1: today I've got a very special guest. His name is

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Speaker 1: Ben Habib. My UK listeners and viewers will know him

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Speaker 1: very well. He's started the Advanced UK Party. He's the

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Speaker 1: leader of that party, the party that Tommy Robinson has joined,

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Speaker 1: the party that Elon Musk has publicly endorsed. I spent

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Speaker 1: nearly an hour with this man just before recording this

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Speaker 1: really impressive. I really liked him. He's got substance which

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Speaker 1: can be rare in the political types. As you all know,

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Speaker 1: he sees the current threat as existential and I think

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Speaker 1: that is key. If you're going to pull the wool

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Speaker 1: over your eyes, you cannot save us from this. He

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Speaker 1: is not afraid to call a spade a spade, which

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Speaker 1: matters greatly. The other thing he done is give us

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Speaker 1: here on the Aaron Mullin Show exclusively his first official

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Speaker 1: policy of Advance UK. He announces that today during our conversation.

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Speaker 1: It says you're the first person outside the party who

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Speaker 1: will know about this. We haven't announced it publicly and

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Speaker 1: let me tell you it is ah, it is perfection, perfection.

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Speaker 1: I'm super excited about what they plan to do, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that I have necessarily endorsing them over reform.

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Speaker 1: We've had Nigel Farage on here before. Of course, who

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Speaker 1: else have you had? I mean, Boris Johnson's unlikely to

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Speaker 1: make a comeback, but we've of course had him on

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Speaker 1: the show as well. But let me tell you anyone,

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Speaker 1: anyone who can pull the British public in a direction

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Speaker 1: that is away from the likes of Kiss Dama, I

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Speaker 1: am right behind, right behind. He's also not complimentary when

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Speaker 1: it comes to Naja Farage, but that probably won't surprise

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Speaker 1: anyone there as well. But look, if you're not in

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Speaker 1: the UK, if you're in Australia, if you're in the

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Speaker 1: United States, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, all around the world. Singapore,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in Singapore listening recently, and Malaysia,

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Speaker 1: thank you. We love you guys. Make sure you watch

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Speaker 1: this or listen to this because the kind of themes

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Speaker 1: that we discuss applicable everywhere if you are decent, if

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Speaker 1: you are democratic, if you enjoy freedom, then you must

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Speaker 1: not miss this very important conversation with Ben Habib. Ben Habib,

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Speaker 1: leader of Evans UK. It is such a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: have you on the Aaron Moullan Show. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: No, thank you, it's a pleasure to be on your show, Aeron.

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Speaker 2: I've been watching your stuff and I'm, if I may

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Speaker 2: say so, highly impressed.

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Speaker 1: Oh bless you. Well, you've clearly got good taste, so

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Speaker 1: we can tick them off the list. You hope to

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Speaker 1: one day lead the UK. I'd imagine that that would

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Speaker 1: be a fair assessment that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you wouldn't be leader of a political party.

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Speaker 2: If that wasn't your aim, why well, I would say,

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Speaker 2: I'm a reluctant would be leader of the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 2: I'm reluctantly in politics. I was perfectly happy leading a

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Speaker 2: commercial life, running a business. You know, I'm really a

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Speaker 2: businessman by background. Running my business. I'm actually reach an

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Speaker 2: age where I don't have to bring up children anymore.

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Speaker 2: They've grown up and I could have relaxed a bit.

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Speaker 2: But the country is facing such challenges and there seems

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Speaker 2: a complete absence of an understanding of the challenges that

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Speaker 2: the country's facing, the root causes of those challenges. And

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Speaker 2: there's no champion that I can see on the British

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Speaker 2: landscape that is able to as you were rightly saying

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Speaker 2: the other day in your speech in the New South

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Speaker 2: Wales Parliament, you know there's no champion there even able

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Speaker 2: to call out what the problems are, let alone address them.

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Speaker 2: That I feel compelled. I know this sounds a big keichhe,

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Speaker 2: but I feel compelled to stand up and be counted.

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Speaker 2: And if I succeed, I think I would have done

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Speaker 2: a phenomenal thing, not just for the United Kingdom but

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Speaker 2: for Western civilization itself. And success, by the way, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't come from just having become Prime Minister. Success can

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Speaker 2: come from having pivoted the debate and having set the

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Speaker 2: direction of travel so that others who follow can do it.

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Speaker 2: But if I can succeed, fantastic, What a terrific contribution

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Speaker 2: I would have made in my life and that would

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Speaker 2: be wonderful thing to go to my deathbed with. But

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Speaker 2: if I fail, at least I tried, and I know

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Speaker 2: that I tried. But if I go to my deathbed

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Speaker 2: thinking I knew the challenges the country faced. I knew

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Speaker 2: there wasn't anyone out there able to do what was required.

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Speaker 2: And actually I went to the beach and had a pinacolada.

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Speaker 2: I don't think i'd shutten off my mortal coil very happily.

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Speaker 1: It sounds lovely, it really does. But I get it

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Speaker 1: because I'm also someone that I think is driven by purpose,

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Speaker 1: and as you get older, I think that pushes you

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Speaker 1: harder than almost anything else. Purpose and legacy. And if

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Speaker 1: you've got kids that you mentioned, you can see an

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Speaker 1: existential crisis. I have no doubt. And you're so right

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Speaker 1: about this not being able to call it out. I

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Speaker 1: remember a day, and it wasn't so long ago, where

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Speaker 1: the criticism of people in public life would be, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you keep talking about the problem, Yeah you can identify

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Speaker 1: the problem, but what can you do about it. We've

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Speaker 1: moved back from that now where people can't even identify

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Speaker 1: the problem, or they refuse to They refuse to say

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Speaker 1: what the problem is. Whether that's because they're afraid of backlash,

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Speaker 1: or whether that's because they actually don't understand the problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, But how have we reached a space

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Speaker 1: that used to be the easy part. It used to

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Speaker 1: be the thing you'd mocked people over. Okay, you can

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Speaker 1: point it out, but you can't fix it. Now we

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Speaker 1: can't even point it out. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the political class that are particularly hijacked

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Speaker 3: by the inability to point it out. I don't know

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Speaker 3: about the Australian people, but the British people that weren up.

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Speaker 2: I think you know their first. The first evidence that

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Speaker 2: the British people recognize the threats that the country faces

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Speaker 2: was in twenty sixteen when we voted to leave the

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Speaker 2: European Union. That was an absolute kickback, not just against

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Speaker 2: the EU, but a kickback against this global order under

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Speaker 2: this idea that you can't be a national state, that

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Speaker 2: proud nation states are a problem, that borders need to

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Speaker 2: be taken down, that mass migration, multiculturalism, these are all

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Speaker 2: great things because they bring global prosperity in peace, when

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Speaker 2: quite the opposite is true, and the British people woke

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Speaker 2: up to it, but the British political establishment has refused

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Speaker 2: to give effect to the wishes of the British people.

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Speaker 2: They keep promising to do it and they keep doing

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Speaker 2: the opposite. And so the split between those that elect

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Speaker 2: our representatives and those that are meant to be representing

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Speaker 2: us is so large now, hearn, I don't know when

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Speaker 2: it was you were last in London. The split is

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Speaker 2: so large that Parliament itself now needs a nine foot

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Speaker 2: metal fence to protect it. That was never the case

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Speaker 2: in the UK. But if ever there was an.

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Speaker 3: Optical evidence, If ever there was optical evidence of the

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Speaker 3: split between the people and those that govern it, it's

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Speaker 3: this nine foot tall metal fence surrounding our Parliament.

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Speaker 1: It's a really powerful image and never I've seen that,

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Speaker 1: but I've never quite thought about it as representative of

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Speaker 1: the split, the divide, and that is crucial, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: And you're right, I feel like, how could you not

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Speaker 1: have woken up, particularly in the UK, when we look

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Speaker 1: back at even the past twelve months, at this series

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Speaker 1: of events. Surely the population their tolerance for the bs

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing over and over and led by Kirs Starmer,

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Speaker 1: but gosh, there's plenty in there who should hang their

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Speaker 1: heads in shame. In my humble opinion, is it too late?

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Speaker 1: Do you think? And I would hope your answer is no,

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Speaker 1: because if it is, what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: It's never too late? I think if you know, on

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Speaker 2: the third of September nineteen thirty nine, one might have

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Speaker 2: argued that it would have been stupid to declare war

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Speaker 2: on Germany. But you know, with the United Kingdom unarmed

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Speaker 2: as it was and not ready for war, and again

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Speaker 2: people might have said it was stupid to exit from

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Speaker 2: Dunkirk and still think we could put up a fight.

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Speaker 2: As bak as things might sound, you know, might seem

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Speaker 2: we've got to put up the fight. And I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's too late. I'm in the process that my parties,

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Speaker 2: in the process of putting together policies to see off

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Speaker 2: this existential threat that the UK faces. And actually, you know,

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Speaker 2: in a dozen policies at most, if we could enact them,

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Speaker 2: a dozen policies at most, we would effectively change direction

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty degrees and set the country on

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Speaker 2: the right path.

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Speaker 1: It's not People seem to make it out to be

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Speaker 1: far more complex. And when I say that, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that it would be easy, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: much more simple. You've just got to have and I

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Speaker 1: use the word courage, but I don't think it should

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Speaker 1: require courage to do what is right for the country

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Speaker 1: that has put you into the most powerful position it holds.

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Speaker 1: I think that is your duty, but it does require

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Speaker 1: courage in some leaders who have less, you know, backbone. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: what would fix it? Then tell me what are these

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Speaker 1: simple things? And it might take time. I understand that

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Speaker 1: that could well not fix it. You change the trajectory,

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Speaker 1: at least push you in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, the biggest damaging influence to nation states and

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Speaker 2: our preparedness to protect our people and put our countries

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Speaker 2: first is this notion that we must cooperate on the

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Speaker 2: global stage to the point where our nation states ceases

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Speaker 2: to exist. And that is something that has infected the

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Speaker 2: EU dramatically, but has infected all of Western civilization, in

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Speaker 2: which I include Australia and New Zealand. You know, your

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Speaker 2: gripped by the same mindset that we've really proud nations,

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Speaker 2: nations that believe in their history, take their lead from

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Speaker 2: their history, understand their heritage, celebrate their national heroes. Proud

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Speaker 2: nations like that are a problem according to this received

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Speaker 2: form of extreme globalist ideology. And we've got to reject that.

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Speaker 2: And bizarrely, I'm going to let you into a little

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Speaker 2: secret which other people in the UK don't know yet

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Speaker 2: that you're the first person outside the party to know this.

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Speaker 2: The first policy we're going to do is a policy

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Speaker 2: on culture. Now that might sound daft to you, you

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Speaker 2: might think, or people listening to the show might think,

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Speaker 2: you know, why are you focusing on cultures? Like there's

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Speaker 2: so much else going on, the economies, in trouble sovereignties

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Speaker 2: and trouble defenses in the you know, in the dog basket.

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Speaker 2: But if you don't understand your culture, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: got a grip of what it is you are as

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Speaker 2: a people, what you stand for, where you came from,

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Speaker 2: how you and what your value system is. If you

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Speaker 2: haven't got that sorted out, which is what is being

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Speaker 2: so undermined by this globalist order. If you haven't got

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Speaker 2: that sorted out, there's no way back. And so the

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Speaker 2: first thing we're going to do is have a policy

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Speaker 2: on culture. And then the second thing we're going to

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Speaker 2: have a policy on, which follows, you know, seamlessly, is immigration.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people have woken up to the problems

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Speaker 2: of immigration. No one's prepared to actually do what's necessary

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Speaker 2: to reverse it. But I think if we have the

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Speaker 2: overarching protection of a cultural policy, then everything else will

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Speaker 2: flow naturally from that policy. Does that make sense.

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Speaker 1: It's brilliant and I think it's at the core of

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Speaker 1: almost everything that I try and do on this show,

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Speaker 1: and the basis of which I fight is to preserve

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Speaker 1: the culture. And I had a dad who was in

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Speaker 1: the army who fought in Iraq, wh would have given

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Speaker 1: his life for this country. There have been countless men

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Speaker 1: and women who have given their lives for this country.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when my dad was in Iraq and

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Speaker 1: he was there for a year and General Portrays have

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Speaker 1: put him into the chief of staff positions, so he

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Speaker 1: ran the war in Iraq for the Americans and Alliance

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Speaker 1: forces for a year, first Australian general to have a

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Speaker 1: lead and command a US war. And we would say

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Speaker 1: to him when he came home, we don't understand, Dad,

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Speaker 1: why you have to follow the rules of war and

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Speaker 1: you know your enemy ISOs al Kaida, the terrorists don't

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Speaker 1: have to like it's not fair. And I was a

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Speaker 1: teenager at this time, and we would have these robust

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Speaker 1: discussions because it was a, you know, a big topic

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Speaker 1: on the news and a lot of you know, newspaper

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Speaker 1: articles were written about how they fought versus how we fought.

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Speaker 1: And Dad would always say, and I didn't quite understand

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Speaker 1: it at the time, but I do now. If we

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Speaker 1: lower ourselves to their standards and fight the way they fight,

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Speaker 1: then what the hell am I trying to protect? What

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Speaker 1: are we trying to protect? Back home? You know, the

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Speaker 1: second you lose what it is that makes you who

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Speaker 1: you are and makes your country great is the second

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Speaker 1: you just should give up and walk away. And again,

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Speaker 1: at the time, it didn't make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: I keet thinking yeah, but yeah, but yeah, But now,

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Speaker 1: of course I understand it so so thoroughly well. And

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Speaker 1: I look at our schools where we teach our kids

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Speaker 1: to hate our country and that we're racist, and workplaces

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Speaker 1: where you know, you can't play the Australian anthem or

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Speaker 1: waigh the Australian flag because that has now been made

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Speaker 1: to be racist, like on Australia Day. Now you put

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Speaker 1: the on Instagram the Australian flag, you will be annihilated

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Speaker 1: by people saying that you are racist and you're a

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Speaker 1: right wing nut job and all these kinds. It's just

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Speaker 1: it is complete insanity. You cannot protect and preserve or

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Speaker 1: get a new generation to join you in that battle

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Speaker 1: to protect and preserve a country they don't like, or

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Speaker 1: they don't feel like they're a part of, or they

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Speaker 1: don't believe in, or they think is evil. It's at

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Speaker 1: the basis of everything. I have shivers, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like that is be so easy to say immigration, defense,

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Speaker 1: which all matters greatly, and believe you may, defense is

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Speaker 1: my passion, but this has almost got to be the

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Speaker 1: basis from which you launch I think that's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you're absolutely right, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: political parties make a huge mistake when they look at

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Speaker 2: individual policy silos, as I call them, and try to

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Speaker 2: address those policy silos without looking across to all the

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Speaker 2: other impacts that particular policy might have. And you need

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Speaker 2: a holistic, coherent approach which needs an underpinning of political philosophy.

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Speaker 2: And that political philosophy is your culture. It's who you

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Speaker 2: are as a people. And if I may go back

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Speaker 2: to World War Two as an example, again, it's a

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Speaker 2: very good example because there was a very distinct difference

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Speaker 2: between those who were evil and those who were good,

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Speaker 2: and it was very clear who was on the right

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Speaker 2: side of that war. We didn't go to war to

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Speaker 2: protect our economy. We didn't go to war for some

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Speaker 2: kind of globalist agenda. We went to war to protect

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Speaker 2: our way of life, to protect our culture, to protect

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Speaker 2: our people, that which is dear to us. We took

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Speaker 2: huge economic risks in order to in fact, the United

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Speaker 2: Kingdom paid one of the highest economic prices possible in

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Speaker 2: order to defend, initially standing pretty much alone, to defend

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Speaker 2: Western civilization against Germany.

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Speaker 3: And we did that because we understood the importance of

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Speaker 3: our culture and who we are as a people.

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Speaker 2: And as you've rightly pointed out in the comments you

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Speaker 2: made Erin, our children are not taught that. Our children

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Speaker 2: are taught to be ashamed of their country, to be

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Speaker 2: ashamed of board is ashamed of the Australian flag. We

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Speaker 2: are told that we're racist if we liked the Saint

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Speaker 2: George's flag, which is the flag of England, or that

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Speaker 2: the Union flag has flown on buildings. You know that's racist.

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Speaker 2: And so if you produce a country's identity literally by

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Speaker 2: producing its flag, it ceases to be and then there

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Speaker 2: will be nothing to fight for. There'll be no economy

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Speaker 2: worth having because it won't be our people's economy.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And even you know, look at defense,

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Speaker 1: we had numbers falling significantly of people wanting to join

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Speaker 1: the military. Again, why would any kid who's just spent

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Speaker 1: twelve years in education being told that their country sucks

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Speaker 1: then think, you know what, I'm going to go and

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Speaker 1: join the army where I might die to protect this

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Speaker 1: country that sucks. You know, even from that very basic example, defense.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't matter much.

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Speaker 1: You can't recruit people to join it and believe in

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Speaker 1: the cause, and for that you need to have a

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Speaker 1: strong culture. Immigrations are next thing, and that's obviously something

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Speaker 1: that is a huge issue for the UK, absolutely all

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Speaker 1: over the Western world essentially, but particularly bad in the UK.

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Speaker 1: And in that same speech that you referenced earlier, you know,

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Speaker 1: I made the point and I see it every day

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Speaker 1: here in Australia. It is not racist to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we can't contain the number of people coming in. We

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Speaker 1: don't have the logistics for it. And who gets hurt

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Speaker 1: almost more than anyone immigrants who have come before them.

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Speaker 1: They're actually louder than the kind of you know, fourth

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Speaker 1: fifth generation Australians going I have brooded my whole family

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Speaker 1: to come here for a better life. My kids now

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Speaker 1: can't get an apartment, they can't rent something, They're waiting

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Speaker 1: too long for a hospital that you know, the facilities

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Speaker 1: aren't there. So immigrants who have come and contributed immensely

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Speaker 1: suffered just as much as everyday Australians whoever you'd like

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Speaker 1: to describe them. I think this debate we're getting better

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Speaker 1: at it. I think people are less afraid to tackle it,

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Speaker 1: but still the stigma that surrounds it that if you

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Speaker 1: even mention the word, people will attack you, and people

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Speaker 1: are terrified we're going to move beyond that.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's the politicians who attack you. I imagine the

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Speaker 2: Australian population gets it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, they genuinely do. Ben I am constantly reassured that

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of Australians believe in everything that I

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Speaker 1: say and every thing that you say as well. When

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Speaker 1: it comes to values and what we need to preserve.

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely the Greens, a Labor Party or all

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Speaker 1: the types. He use it as a weapon to stop conversation,

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Speaker 1: to stop people.

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Speaker 2: There's another thing that's been taking place, which is part

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Speaker 2: of the whole globalist agenda in which they ascribe naturally,

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Speaker 2: they ascribe inalienable human rights as they describe them to

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Speaker 2: every human being on the planet. But then they make

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Speaker 2: the massive leap of going from there to saying, well,

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Speaker 2: in that case, every foreigner is equal to every British citizen,

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Speaker 2: and that is not an acceptable logical leap to make.

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Speaker 2: If you're a British citizen or an Australian citizen in

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Speaker 2: your country, you deserve first shake at the welfare state,

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Speaker 2: first shake with housing and all the other benefits that

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Speaker 2: go with being a nausea or with being a British citizen.

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Speaker 2: That is your privilege. That is what comes from being,

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Speaker 2: you know, a citizen of the country.

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Speaker 1: And we're so blessed to have been born into this

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Speaker 1: country or this country or this country. That comes inherently

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Speaker 1: with rights and.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and when you set those rights aside and you

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Speaker 2: welcome in the whole world. And the other thing we're

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Speaker 2: doing when we welcome in the whole world is we're

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Speaker 2: no longer as perhaps you know, two or three generations ago,

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Speaker 2: we were taking in people that could actually significantly economically

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Speaker 2: contribute to the United Kingdom. They've enriched our cultural fabric

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Speaker 2: rather than damaged it. We're now taking in people from

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Speaker 2: the depths of Punjab from Afghanistan, hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 2: people from Afghanistan who have never had, frankly speaking, brush

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Speaker 2: with civilization. They wouldn't be welcome in polite society in

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Speaker 2: Carbul or you know some.

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Speaker 3: And so we've just gone absolutely loopy and we've got

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Speaker 3: to reverse all of that. But as I say, I

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Speaker 3: think it is absolutely doable.

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Speaker 1: See I feel like and you would have, of course

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Speaker 1: follow what happened in Bondai Beach in Australia, and I

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Speaker 1: feel I can go to an even lower standard when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this. If you want to come in

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Speaker 1: to my country and you want to contribute, you still

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Speaker 1: want to keep parts of your culture, that's fine. If

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Speaker 1: we can take you and it's all legal, great, you

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Speaker 1: want to come in and be a part of something special, wonderful.

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Speaker 1: We're a small population and we need immigration. If you

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Speaker 1: want to kill me, or kill my child, or kill

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Speaker 1: my fellow Australians and I don't want you, We're not

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Speaker 1: even there yet. We still can't say no to people

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Speaker 1: who have a history of terrorism in their own nations.

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Speaker 1: This is the that big crazy element of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's not even don't come in and be a drain

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Speaker 1: on our system. I'm all for that as well, but

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Speaker 1: right now, Ben, I'd settle for Hey, do you mind

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Speaker 1: those three thousand or six thousand whatever it is visas

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Speaker 1: that you've awarded to people out of Gaza that happened

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Speaker 1: very very quickly, that haven't been vested in the proper way.

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Speaker 1: Would you mind checking about their links given it's a

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Speaker 1: terrorist run nation, because I don't want them to kill

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Speaker 1: me or my child or my fellow Australians. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're not even there yet. We're bringing people who pose

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Speaker 1: a threat to this country, let alone people who are

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Speaker 1: just going to go on welfare and drain our system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the economics is depressing, but actually the

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Speaker 2: much bigger threat is the one that you've cited as

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Speaker 2: a security threat. It's a threat to our very people,

432
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: our existence. And I don't know if you followed the

433
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: case of allah Abed l Fata in the UK. Did

434
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: you follow this case.

435
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: That had to have I mean normally I look at

436
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: something and I move away. The deep diving idea off

437
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: the back of Keirstarma's tweet and the way the places

438
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: my mind went to beniz In. He couldn't have no

439
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: he could no, not even, and I don't think particularly highly.

440
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 1: Is it a spoofer count? No, there's a blue tick. No,

441
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: surely this is an elon elon you. I can't. I

442
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: actually did a I did a quote post of it, Ben,

443
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, in one hundred years, when

444
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: they study the downfall of Western civilization, this could be

445
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: the most powerful piece. This in your fence outside Parliament,

446
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: the most powerful demonstration of how significantly weakly cowardly leaders

447
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: screwed up that the nations they were put in place

448
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: to protect. Because I was appalled.

449
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 2: I mean, the story is so remarkable that if you

450
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 2: were told it as a hypothetical situation, you just think

451
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: it would never manifest itself in reality.

452
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: History is a movie. They'd say, no, no, it's.

453
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: Not, it's too fantastical. But this guy, this guy is

454
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: spent basically as far as I can make out, pretty

455
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 2: much all this time, since two thousand and six, and

456
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: then an Egyptian jail because he's Muslim brotherhood and he

457
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: supports all of that. In twenty twenty one, in Absentia,

458
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 2: the Conservative government gave him British citizenship because his mother

459
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: was born in the United Kingdom. He'd never been here.

460
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 2: He's extremely anti British, he's he likens British's anti way

461
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: was to kill us, decolonize and all that sort of nonsense.

462
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: And so he was.

463
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: Kids and British citizenship in absent here and then they fought,

464
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: the British government fought to get him back to the

465
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: United Kingdom, and Kirs Starmer now claims he had no

466
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 3: idea about how anti British this guy was. Grock found

467
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 3: out within five seconds flat how anti British this guy was,

468
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: and our security services and our Prime Minister didn't know.

469
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: It's an absolute joke.

470
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: And that is after in the midst of I mean,

471
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: we're not living in our best times. I don't think

472
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: anyone in the maybe in America they can say that

473
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: at the moment. But for him to say a priority

474
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: of our government, even if he had no idea, like

475
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: even that shows such poor judgment that he would determine

476
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: in the current climate that brings some back. Even if

477
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: he wasn't a complete knob, it would still be in

478
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: a pretty appalling priority to have for a government where

479
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: his own people are completely screwed at the moment. So

480
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: even that, but then you look at all the things

481
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: he said and done. I just think, you know, I

482
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: get that. Leaders it's hard to be across every single

483
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: little detail, but you actually got to be when it

484
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: comes to things like that. That's a real failing for him

485
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: and a real I mean he's got Yeah, you know,

486
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: how does it work with you? I mean, do you

487
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: have people that do your social media? Do you have

488
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: people that help you? Do you look at everything? I mean,

489
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: I know it's really hard to I mean even I've

490
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: now moved into a space where I have a couple

491
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: of people who put things out and I say to them,

492
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: just quote. If I'm not writing it myself, just do

493
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: a quote of the guest type thing, because then it

494
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: minimizes their ability to maybe say something that might be

495
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: misconstrued or it's not directly what I think or say.

496
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: But I mean, when you're in that position.

497
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: You've got to be across everything you do. But remember,

498
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: this wasn't him, This wasn't his putting out a post

499
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: on X. This was him.

500
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: He put it out, I mean me, and then he

501
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: tried to defend it. Then he tried to defend it.

502
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: He tried to defend the indefensible. But you know, we've

503
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: had this before in the United Kingdom. I don't know

504
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: if you recall or if Australia is familiar with what

505
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: happened in Southport in August in July was a July

506
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: August twenty twenty four when three young children were killed

507
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: by this guy called Axel. Rudy Cabana, now actual Rudy

508
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: Cabana was the second generation Rwandan whose father, people say,

509
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: we don't know for sure, may have been implicated in

510
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: the Rwandan genocide. That that's some of the rumors that

511
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: are going about. But anyway, when the killing took place

512
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 3: of these I think one of the children killed was

513
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: with concert concert. Yeah, and so anyone who doesn't want

514
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: to hear anything gruesome should put their hands over their

515
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: ears now.

516
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: But one of those children was stabbed one hundred and

517
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: thirty two times and then he proceeded to try to

518
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: behead her and she was I think nine years old.

519
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: This man was an absolute animal. And when the Prime

520
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: Minister was asked about the killings, before we knew the

521
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: identity of the individual, he described him as a Welshman.

522
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: It was absolute deflection. He was trying to conjure up

523
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: the image of a middle aged white man out in

524
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: his field with his sheep to deflect away from the

525
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: fact that this guy was second generation Rwandan who also

526
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: was found with risin and you know, hold outsider workbooks.

527
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: This guy was a budding terrorist and a bit like

528
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: Bondai beach Immediately after the killings, when white folk, white

529
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: British folk working class got up and protested, he classified

530
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: everyone as far right of an absolute absurdity. So there's

531
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: a lot of deflection and misdirection being given by the government,

532
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: by the politicians in the pursuit of their multicultural idealistic,

533
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: incredibly mistaken idealistic drive towards multiculturalism. They will just so

534
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: lies in deceit through their message in order to spense

535
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: you know, absolutely people.

536
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: See.

537
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: I just can't even normally I can look at something

538
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: and say, okay, look, I see, I see what they're

539
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: trying to achieve. I may not agree with it, but

540
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: I kind of get it. In this space, even you know,

541
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: calling out radical Islam, I don't think that should be

542
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: offensive to everyday moderate Muslims. I think they should be

543
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: leading the charge, being the charge personally. And I lived

544
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: in Indonesia for seven eight years, the world's largest Islamic nation,

545
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: I speak the language fluently. I go to the country

546
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: all the time. They are an incredible people. I love

547
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: the country. I look now and I think any Muslim

548
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: who is offended by us trying to eradicate the type

549
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: of people who would do that, or who would shoot

550
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: people like animals at Bondai Beach, I just think it's

551
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: more left just woke politician class on their behalf being offended.

552
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, they will say to me privately, we hate

553
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: Islamic extremism more than you do. It hurts our people,

554
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: moderate Muslims more than it hurts anyone else. And I

555
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: look at this. You know, even after BONDEI we had

556
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: our police commissioners say this is not about religion. I

557
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: just when the Catholic Church went through its horrific you know,

558
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: priests and the abuse of children, and we had a

559
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: royal commission and it was utterly abhorrent. I don't recall

560
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: one Catholic person saying this is this is awful. How

561
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: dare you talk about our religion like this? How dare

562
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: you put us all in one category? No, they said,

563
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: get these bastards out these you know they have they

564
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: have they are staying on our religion. We want our

565
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: religion to be clean of this. We we love our religion,

566
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: we love our God, we love what we stand for.

567
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: We want them out, you know, as a charge led

568
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 1: by so many Catholics to say we must expose them

569
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: and get them out. I just don't know why. On

570
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: the other side of this, we need to somehow be

571
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: more conscious of the feelings of moderate Muslims than we

572
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: do about the victims of radical Islamists. And I think

573
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: if if that's what we're trying to achieve one over

574
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: the other, then again that's suicidal.

575
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: Well the fault, the fault, I'm afraid squarely rests again

576
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: with our political class and the ideology they follow. And

577
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: they are repulsed by the notion that we're essentially Christian countries.

578
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: They don't like it. They want to be multi faith

579
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: countries because it goes hand in hand with multiculturalism, and

580
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: they see anyone who's promoting Christianity effectively is standing against multiculturalism.

581
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: But of course Christianity is our heritage. It is part

582
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: of our constitutional makeup, or you know, at the moment

583
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: it still is just about part of the United Kingdoms

584
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: costume will make up. But Starmer for example, wishes to

585
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: remove the bishopric from the lords, from the House of Lords,

586
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: and he was to do that because then he can

587
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: claim that actually we are not constitutionally a Christian country.

588
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: He's removed them. And as you might have noticed, our

589
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: own king who's head of the church, head of the state,

590
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: and head of the Church, which symbolizes that coming together

591
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 2: of state and Christianity. Even though Christianity doesn't manifest itself

592
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: through day to day governance, that constitutional relationship has already

593
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: been broken by the king, who so often talks about diversity,

594
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: so often talks about other faith and so on, and

595
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: so there's an attack on Christianity and Christianity being the

596
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: religion that it is, of turning the other cheek, not

597
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: being muscular, being prepared to have a debate, being open minded,

598
00:33:53,040 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: is actually being abused by a more muscular, unrelenting fundamentalist faith.

599
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: And we've got to now somehow balance that too. We've

600
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: got to get behind Christian heritage and our Christian constitution,

601
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 2: and that requires us going on the front foot.

602
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons I'm digressing, but it's

603
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: on the same point. One of the reasons I think

604
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: people are so offended by the Union Flag or Saint

605
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: George's flag is because.

606
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: They are overtly Christian flags. They represent the saints of

607
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, Saint George, Saint Andrew's a Saint Patrick in

608
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: the case of the Union flag, you know, coming together.

609
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: And people don't like that because it's it reminds them

610
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: of our Christian background. And we've got to get behind that.

611
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: We've got to get behind it and say, look, you

612
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 3: may be a Muslim and we're not trying to tell

613
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: you to change your religion. You're free to practice your religion,

614
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: but right now you're in a Christian country, so you

615
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: will understand that you will not seek to change that balance.

616
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: We are Christian and we want to remain Christian.

617
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: And that's such a dead was at the embassy twice

618
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: in Jakata for two postings, and I have such vivid

619
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: memories of before we went and our first couple of months,

620
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: and Mum and Dad were adamant. You know, this is

621
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: a Muslim nation. Even as little girls cover our shoulders,

622
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: never just wear swimmers and run out to the pool

623
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: with wrappatowl around. Not because that's what we do at home.

624
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: In Australia, you barely wear clothes, but we were in

625
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: a nation and Mum and Dad wanted us to respect that.

626
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: And even there's a hand that they don't use as

627
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: a hand they use for the bathroom and another, you know,

628
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: so we would practice at home which hand to use

629
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: when people wanted to shake our hand. And this is

630
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: how we showed respect to an incredible country. And it

631
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: was through nineteen ninety eight, when it's a harder regime fell.

632
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: And it didn't mean that at home we weren't celebrating

633
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: Christmas or Easter, or that we would go to a

634
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: local church because they had local churches there as well,

635
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: But it meant that we respected the culture of the

636
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: country that was good enough to take us in and

637
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: treat us well. And now I feel like we don't

638
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: have that anymore. I don't want anyone to let go

639
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: of who they are. I think it's beautiful to have

640
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,959
Speaker 1: different cultures in places where we live, but don't try

641
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: and force yours in and push mine out. You know

642
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: that that's a really basic I think it's where's the

643
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: respect gone? And half the reason so many people come

644
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: to our country. Maybe it's changing a little bit now

645
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: because there are malicious reasons in some people as well.

646
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 1: They want to come and destroy, but most people come

647
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: because it's better than where they left.

648
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then to try and make it into the

649
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: image of where they left is frankly daughter's brushes. It

650
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: makes no sense.

651
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're particularly qualified in this space, Ben. Your father

652
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: is a Pakistani Muslim, is that correct?

653
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: Correct? Yeah?

654
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: And your mother was Christian.

655
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: She is a white so mum was born in that Yeah. Yeah.

656
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: So mum was born in Isleworth to a father who

657
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: fought in World War One. Her grandfather a Vicar. She's blonde,

658
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: blue eyed, and to look and feel and every other

659
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: respect is English. And by the way, I think of

660
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: myself as English and British, not just British, but I

661
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: think of myself as English, largely as a result of,

662
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: you know, the way I was brought up by mum.

663
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: But dad, and Dad is Pakistani Muslim, born in Punjab.

664
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: I would say he was never a really rigorous Muslim.

665
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: He drank like a fish. And he forbad us to

666
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: tell him that spare ribs were made of pork, because

667
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: had we told him that, he wouldn't have been able

668
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: to eat them. So we've got to Chinese restaurants and

669
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: he said no, no, no, I insist this is beef, as

670
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: he hated to say he was. But you know, I

671
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: was born in Karachi, and Pakistan is a Muslim country

672
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: as you know. But there was an enlightenment I think

673
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: that Islam was going through. From about nineteen twenty through

674
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty is the rough period of enlightenment for Islam.

675
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: And I was born into a post imperial Pakistan which

676
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: still had the tailwinds of the British Empire going through it.

677
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: My peer group, my children with whom I went to

678
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 2: school and their parents were all very proud of the

679
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: British heritage that we had in Pakistan, being a member

680
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: of the Commonwealth, etc. My mum, as I say, was Christians.

681
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: So we went to church at Easter and Christmas, and

682
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: we were not you know, sort of go to church

683
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: every Sunday kind of people. It was a very relaxed

684
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: form of Christianity. But I was brought up with that

685
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: dual sort of culture as it were, with Islam not

686
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: being muscular in those days and Christianity being quite relaxed,

687
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: and so I wasn't pushed one way or the other.

688
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: And then I came to England for boarding school, actually,

689
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: as Islam began to break down from being the enlightened

690
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 2: period that it had to a more fundamentalist. I don't

691
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: know if you're aware of this. If you've ever heard

692
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: iron hercy Ali speak, she's very good on the subject.

693
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: But she will explain that during the eighties Saludi effectively

694
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 2: exported fundamentalist Islam across the Middle East. And it's that

695
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: form of Islam that is so which, by the way,

696
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: I think Islam has a tendency to become it has

697
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: a tendency to become fundamentalist because the Qoran is the

698
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: word of God, so you can't improve on perfection. So

699
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: you're not prepared to debate the Qoran. And if you're

700
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: not prepared to debate it, it's inherently incompatible with Western

701
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: democracy and the way we think of things. And so

702
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: there is a there's a conflict there. But anyway, during

703
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: this period of enlightenment, everything was fine. But as it

704
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: broke down and as Pakistan became more Islamic, Gulf closed,

705
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: it became more troublesome, etc. So my parents sent me

706
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: to a boarding school in England along with my siblings,

707
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: and then you know, I went to boarding school, went

708
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 2: to Cambridge, met her a the young English girl actually

709
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: who I met the school, but then we'd lost touch

710
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: and we got married. And in order to get married,

711
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: I was baptized in nineteen ninety four. So I'm a

712
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: very very light touch Christian, but I fully understand the

713
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 2: huge contribution made by Christianity to the history of the

714
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: United Kingdom and the guidance that Christianity gave this country.

715
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: You know, one of the examples I use, forgive me,

716
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: is this all right if I just taught, if I

717
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: be real a bit. Yeah. So one of the examples

718
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: I use of how wonderful Christianity two examples, two amazing examples,

719
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 2: is that, you know, with the abolition of the safe trade,

720
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: which was effectively done by the United Kingdom at the

721
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: zenith of its power, no empire in history has ever

722
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: abolished slavery when it's been at the height of its power.

723
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: And the reason it did it was not because there

724
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 2: was some kind of new found liberalism in the UK.

725
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: It was a Christian Patrician caring motivation for the abolition

726
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: of the slave trade. It was William Wilberforce. And we

727
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: mustn't forget that.

728
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 3: That one of the biggest and most determined steps towards

729
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 3: what we would regard as a civilized society was made

730
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: by the United Kingdom through its Christian.

731
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: Roots, at the height of its power. And then the

732
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: other example, which is wonderful in a sense, because it's

733
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: William Wilberforce's son, Samuel Wilberforce, who had a debate with

734
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: Thomas Huxley in the Natural History Museum in Oxford, debating

735
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: the theory of evolution. Huxley was representing Darwin. And so

736
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: of course you have the religionist who is Wilberforce against Huxley,

737
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: who is turning religion on its head by claiming that

738
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: we're descended from apes. And they conducted this debate in

739
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: good spirits. There were jokes made, and then they went

740
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: out for dinner afterwards. Now can you imagine a fundamentalist

741
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: believer in Islam having an open, artid, cheerful debate over

742
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: the fundamental nature of Islam and being able to you know,

743
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: you can't imagine it. And this was in eighteen sixty,

744
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 2: you know. And so we mustn't lose sight of what

745
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: made us what we are.

746
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: That's really powerful. I really enjoyed those. Thank you. I

747
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: want to now ask you. I'm going to throw some

748
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: names at you, and I want you to just give

749
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: me reaction to those names.

750
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 2: Tommy Robinson, Yeah, working class hero calls it out the

751
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: way he sees it, not nance punch is exactly where

752
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 2: he thinks he needs to punch more often than not.

753
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: Irritates the establishment because of his accent, the way he

754
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: expresses himself. But he was calling things right miles ahead

755
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: of the establishment. And I think he has a democratic

756
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: mandate in the UK like no other politician. Frankly, I

757
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: had the pleasure of speaking at the United Kingdom rally

758
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: on the thirteenth of September last year, and there were

759
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows people debated, but there were hundreds

760
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: of thousands of people there and there were millions of

761
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: people listening online. There isn't a single political leader who

762
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: could command that a turnout from the British population. So

763
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: he is. He's a brave campaigner, working class campaigner for

764
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, against the rape gangs, but also for what

765
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 2: this country is. And I think he's been given a

766
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: very unfair shake of the dice by the establishment.

767
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I say, And particularly I think he went

768
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: to Israel recently and there was you know, blowback over that,

769
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: and I just I say to people, relax the purity test.

770
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: None of us are perfect. I think I think he's

771
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: an extraordinary human being.

772
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: Oh he smiles from perfect. And I think he would

773
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: say that, you know, he has done stuff, you know,

774
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 2: but a working class lad from Luton, you're going to do.

775
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: Stuff, you know.

776
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: Elon Musk, Elon Musk. So I've had the great pleasure

777
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: of having some interaction with Elon and which perhaps you

778
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: have as well. And what I found when I had

779
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: this interaction with him was that he was completely aligned

780
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: with certainly my way of thinking. He understood the huge

781
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: threat that Western civilization faces, and from my perspective, what

782
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: was really encouraging was that he particularly cared about the

783
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 2: United Kingdom. I think many people do, because it's like

784
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: the bastion of goodness, of political sensibility, the mother of

785
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: modern democracy. If the UK falls, where is Western civilization?

786
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: And I think he got all of that, and so

787
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: I I think he is you know, I think he

788
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: is on our side of the debate. Now, there are

789
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 2: lots of people who don't like, you know, he's he's

790
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 2: a kind of mad genius, isn't he? And some people

791
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: don't like the way he expresses himself again, but I

792
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: think he's a force for good. Is that's how I

793
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: see it.

794
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: I think we've moved into I was looking at the

795
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: White House social media off the back of Maduro, and

796
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've moved so far beyond now.

797
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: If someone's not word perfect, or if they say something

798
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: that's politically incorrect, they're banished, or they canceled, or you know,

799
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: I think we just I hope, I hope that's the case,

800
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: because I could not care less anymore. I have no

801
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: fear of regarding any of it.

802
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: I think, you know, what do you think of can?

803
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: I ask absolutely no. I think I think he's he's phenomenal.

804
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: I think he's I think he cares deeply. He cares

805
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: very very deeply. And I think that's a rarity. I

806
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are motivated by lots of

807
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: different things that are not necessarily It's not a bad

808
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: thing to be motivated by wanting people to think that

809
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: you are amazing, or by ego, or you know, a

810
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 1: lot of those things are part of all of us.

811
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: But I think for him, in particular, I think he's

812
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: motivated by things well, beyond that, because he doesn't need

813
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: anything else from anyone. He doesn't need reassurance, he doesn't

814
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: need money, he doesn't need power, he doesn't need fame.

815
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: I think he cares deeply, and I think, you know,

816
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 1: he will go down as you look back on people

817
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: who have single handedly changed not just the trajectory of

818
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: the world, but the world, and I think he'll be

819
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: right at the top of that list. I think he's

820
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: I think he's got good taste as well, and I

821
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: think he's a fan of yours and your party. So

822
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: I think.

823
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: That, yeah, he's endorsed it. I'm very grateful to him

824
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 2: for his endorsement. You know, he's got two hundred and

825
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: thirty odd million followers on x which is huge.

826
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's two hundred and twenty nine

827
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: eight more than me. Yeah, you know, he controls not

828
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: the right word, but can heavily influence, and not in

829
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: a sinister way, in a way that people look at

830
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: what he's achieved and what he's built. Actually, that's another

831
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to bring up with you, is you know,

832
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: you look at people who can build things, people who

833
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: are in business, people who have been successful, and Donald

834
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: Trump's one of the greatest examples of that. You look

835
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: at the Prime Minister in New Zealand as well, came

836
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: from a business background. I think that's such a plus

837
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: and a bonus rather than these career politicians who have

838
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: really done anything outside of politics. Do you think that's

839
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: an advantage for you that you have run businesses because

840
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: I look at the world leaders at the moment who

841
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: have done so, and they seem to be doing a

842
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: hell of a lot better than those who haven't.

843
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 2: I mean, I've run a small business pretty much ever

844
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 2: since I was twenty nine. I've been running my own

845
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: show since then, and I nowhere near as successful, not

846
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: even one centers successful as Elon Musk.

847
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: But then I would be hard pressed finding any guests.

848
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: You said, yes, and I'm on the level of it,

849
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: so I think you're okay.

850
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: But you know, I've made a living for myself and

851
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: it hasn't been bad. But what it teaches you is

852
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: it teaches you a few things. Particularly running a small

853
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: business is the ability to cope with adversity and to

854
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: step around find solutions for adversity. And the other difference

855
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: is as a businessman is running your own thing, you

856
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: have to be a problem solver and a builder. It's

857
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: not good enough, like so many politicians just to get

858
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: on a soapbox and say all sorts of negative things.

859
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 2: You have to go the next step and have the solution.

860
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 3: And what I find quite depressing about some people on

861
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 3: our side of the debate eron who should be allies,

862
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: is they're great at getting on and saying this is wrong,

863
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: and that's wrong, and that's wrong, and they pointed all

864
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 3: this symptoms. They never really make an attempt to get

865
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 3: to the root causes, and they don't even bother.

866
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: With a solution. No, that's an issue.

867
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: You can't do that in business, particularly small business, can you,

868
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: because you fold, it's not a luxury to just put

869
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: your head in the sand and to you know, whereas

870
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: government will just continue to operate even if you don't

871
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: fix problems alutely, well, it will continue. You're so right.

872
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: What about Donald Trump?

873
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: Donald Trump the way he expressed So all the three

874
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: people you've asked me about express themselves in very particular ways.

875
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: Tommy Robinson, Elon Musk, and Donald Trump, all of them

876
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: are basically heading in the direction that we would wish

877
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: Western civilization to go, you know, calling out the problems

878
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 2: that we see. Donald Trump may have a particular way

879
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 2: of expressing himself that doesn't sit comfortably with the intellectual elites.

880
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: But everything he does, from what I can see, is

881
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 2: pushing us in the right direction, including taking Madeiro out

882
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: the other day, absolutely the right thing to do. I

883
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it when some people on our side of

884
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: the debate that, oh, he's broken international law. Have they

885
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: not understood that international law is the thing that is

886
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: hampering our countries. It's what's preventing preventing us from actually

887
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 2: being proud countries. And by the way, there's no this

888
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 2: thing as international law. There are just treaties and memberships

889
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: of organizations. So he got rid of DEI. He's enforced

890
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: the borders. He's drill, baby, drill. He's America first, and

891
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 2: I say, great, do it and lead the way, show

892
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: us how to get show us the way back for

893
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom and Western civilization.

894
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: He's a real I mean, he says what he means,

895
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: and he does what he says. And you look at

896
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: Biden for example, and you know, the example I always

897
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: think of is when he was asked about Iran and

898
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: the threat of Iran by a reporter and he kind

899
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: of looked at her down the camera and he said,

900
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: they not. She said, here, you worried Iran's going to

901
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: do something and he said, they know, they know, as

902
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: in they know not to. And I think the next

903
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: week US troops were killed, and you just go, you

904
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: can't have a leader that nobody believes. And I think

905
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump, you're right.

906
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: You know.

907
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: I used to say to people back in the day,

908
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: what I want him to marry my daughter? Probably not.

909
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: Look now I might rethink it. She's a little young,

910
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: but he's growing much more attractive in my eyes as

911
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: time goes on. He's doing a phenomenal job. But that

912
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I don't need someone who's word perfect or

913
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: who's polished. I need someone who's going to keep as

914
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: an extension of America, the West and the rest of

915
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: us who rely on America to be safe and prosperous.

916
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: I need someone in power there who's going to do

917
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: what it takes and do what needs to be done.

918
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: And again, relax the purity test. All these people come

919
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: up me, Oh but he said this about women when

920
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: he was twenty. Well show me any bloke who hasn't

921
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: said something that's you know, disparaging about a woman in

922
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: their twenties or in their thirties, or and show me

923
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: a woman who hasn't called a bloker bloody million different

924
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: things that we're disparaging in her like. It's just that

925
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: the purity test cannot exist or we will lose ninety

926
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: nine percent of the people we need to stay.

927
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the purity test is very clever because it's

928
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: a test that it isn't largely implemented by those who

929
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 2: would wish to stand against us and applied to people

930
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: like us, or to people on our side of the debate,

931
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: and they use it to cancel us. It's the mechanism

932
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 2: to cancel us, and we mustn't bow to it. We

933
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 2: might just say, you know, two fingers up.

934
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: I think that, and I think people are. I really

935
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: feel like the whole cancel culture thing has just died

936
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: in the ass. I really think it has. For the

937
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: most part. You make a choice. You're either elected buy

938
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: into it or you don't. You just don't buy into it, Ben,

939
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: I've kept you far too long. Last question, end of

940
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: this year, we've just ticked over into a new year.

941
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: What is a win for you? Say this exact date

942
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: in twelve months time, if you're back here sitting down

943
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: with me and I say did you win this year? Why?

944
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: And what would you be able to say to me.

945
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: Advance is a very new party. It came into being

946
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: on the thirtieth of June last year. We didn't even

947
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 2: apply for registration as a political party until September, which

948
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 2: we got in December. What I would like, But we're

949
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 2: doing incredibly well for a new party. We've already got

950
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 2: nearly forty thousand members, which makes us the seventh largest

951
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: political party in the United Kingdom. I don't know how

952
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: that compares to membership in Australian parties, but I asked

953
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: that's it's a proper membership. You know, we can fight.

954
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: We can fight a general election if we have to.

955
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: My aim this year, having spent twenty twenty five establishing

956
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 2: the party, is now to give the party momentum in

957
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: two particular directions. One in the policy making that we're

958
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: going to be coming out with, the first policy of

959
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 2: which is going to be the culture policy that we

960
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: discussed earlier. And then polling out policy and leading the way,

961
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: not trying to hold our cards to our chest, but

962
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 2: letting all politicians, even our competitors on our side of

963
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: the fence, have full access to what our thinking is.

964
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: So if they want to adopt it, adopt it. You know,

965
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 2: we want the biggest force for the good ideas and

966
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: that's the first thing. And the second thing is to

967
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: get momentum politically in the polls. We've got to make

968
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: an impact from it. We've got to get into the

969
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: minds of the electorate. That's difficult because the mainstream media

970
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: want to shut us out. They don't want to force

971
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: like us to exist. But shows like yours are very

972
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: important for Advance and what I hope to be by

973
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: the end of this year is polling it a level

974
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 2: which makes the mainstream media think, oh my god, we

975
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: better take Advance very seriously.

976
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: I really the reason I smile. And we're a very

977
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: new show here as well. So we only launched in

978
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: August last year and with you know, already got one

979
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty four thousand subscribers, which is I've heard

980
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: of growth in that time, and we reach millions every month,

981
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: and we've got a big audience in the UK, the US, Canada,

982
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: Australia of course as well. And it's so interesting I

983
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: was talking to a couple of people that I mean,

984
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: we're still volunteers, a lot of people in this small team.

985
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: We're not kind of you know, at Charlie Kirk's show

986
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: level yet yet. But I say to them, where I

987
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: want to be is too big to ignore. You know,

988
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: I get, I've had you know, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage,

989
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: Tommy Robinson just talking about UK be you know, I

990
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: get I chase big names and I love having big names.

991
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: But a lot of the times, I know the media,

992
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: the mainstream media, who would normally take a bit and

993
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: run with it because it's a headline or it's a

994
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: big deal, won't do it because they don't want to

995
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: promote an independent show and they But where I want

996
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: to be is too big to ignore, is what I

997
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: said on my team. That's where I want to be.

998
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: I want to be to the point where they actually go, actually,

999
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: we have to cover this, we have to promote it.

1000
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: We have to because we're doing things that are too

1001
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: big to ignore. And I think it's a very similar

1002
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: kind of place that you're in now.

1003
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the first step. Then the next

1004
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: step is winning the general election in twenty twenty nine.

1005
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got to ask you. I forgot to ask

1006
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: you about Magel Farage.

1007
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, go and ask me.

1008
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: No, it's just a name, and you just react however

1009
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: you please.

1010
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't have set up advanced if I believed

1011
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 2: in Parage. The problem with Farage, the fundamental problem with Farage,

1012
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: and it may not be obvious to viewers in Australia,

1013
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: it isn't obvious to a lot of people in the

1014
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: United Kingdom, is that he doesn't have a political philosophy.

1015
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: He isn't actually the nation state of Great Britain and

1016
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: Northern Ireland. First. He is what I would call a

1017
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 2: classic liberal. Thinks a lot about the economy, but has

1018
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: forgotten that for the economy fundamentally to succeed in the

1019
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: long term, it needs a sound constitutional and cultural basis,

1020
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: and he doesn't understand that. He doesn't get it. He

1021
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: doesn't have the wherewithal. He doesn't have the integrity, the intent,

1022
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: or the wherewithal to deliver for the United Kingdom. So

1023
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: he carries the hopes and aspirations of the British people,

1024
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: but he is an empty vessel. I'm afraid to say,

1025
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 2: I hope that hasn't damaged your view of him.

1026
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: No, no, I mean I love everyone's opinion and I

1027
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: listen to them all and I form my own, so

1028
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: not at all. I thank you, thank you very much.

1029
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed this conversation and I think you're incredibly

1030
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: impressive and I'm excited to watch what you do over

1031
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: the next twelve months.

1032
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and likewise, you're incredibly impressive Aaron yours.

1033
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: What I've seen of you is phenomenal, and we all

1034
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 2: need to ally. People like you and me and others

1035
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 2: need to ally and make sure we win and save

1036
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: our countries.

1037
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: I think you know when you call it this existential threat,

1038
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people roll their eyes or

1039
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: think that you're just being dramatic. It's actually I wish

1040
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: it were, It's actually not, and it's real. UK people

1041
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: are far more aware of it than they are here.

1042
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: I think maybe after Bondie Australians are starting to wake

1043
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: up a little bit, which is unfortunate that it required

1044
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: something like that. But it is existential without anything.

1045
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: And I just want to say one thing before I go.

1046
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: It is an existential threat, and that is not hyperbole.

1047
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: That is a fact that doesn't however.

1048
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: Mean that in order to put things right, we need

1049
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: to be extreme in the policies we are.

1050
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: We have to be radical. We have to be radical,

1051
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: but we can do it eeasibly and we can do

1052
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: it with That's.

1053
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: The difference between extreme and radical. That's fascinating to me.

1054
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: So radical is a dramatic change of direction, and we

1055
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 2: need to be radical.

1056
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: That's something extreme. It can be a radical change of direction,

1057
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: something that's still fairly gotcha.

1058
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 2: I mean, actually to make it, to make it more balanced.

1059
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: I believe, I firmly believe that we are being governed

1060
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 2: by extreme ideologies. This notion that we mustn't enforce a

1061
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: border is an extreme ideology. Giving up on fossil fuels

1062
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: with no economic with massive economic damage and no real

1063
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: betterment of the climate is an extreme policy.

1064
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: Being stupid.

1065
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: It's also bloody stupid, and so it's radical to change that,

1066
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 2: but it is not extreme. If that makes.

1067
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: Sense, got it? No, that's amazing. I just I always

1068
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: think if I'm thinking something, then my audience might as well.

1069
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: So thank you. That makes perfect sense, Ben Habib, Thank

1070
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: you so so much for joining us here. I'd love

1071
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: to have you back on again over the next year

1072
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: or so, and if I'm over in the UK, I

1073
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: would love to catch up as well.

1074
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely look forward to that erin. Thank you very much

1075
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: for having me on.

1076
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: Thank you you're amazing. Thank you so much. That was well,

1077
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: there you go. Thank you so so much for staying

1078
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: with us. I know it was a long one, but

1079
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: I could have talked to him for another hour. Really

1080
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: fascinating fellow. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please let

1081
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: me know you think, leave your comments as always, and again,

1082
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: let me remind you that in tomorrow's episode, we're going

1083
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: to go hard. We're going to look at China, the

1084
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: impact on China of what's happened in Venezuela. We're going

1085
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: to get someone to take us through exactly how they

1086
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: pulled off this miracle mission. How it's almost impossible to fathom.

1087
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: But this is what these people do, These men and

1088
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: women who join these incredibly elite teams go in and

1089
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: do the unthinkable. So stay with us all week. There'll

1090
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: be so much more coming. I've locked in a few

1091
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: amazing interviews Sid Rosenberg as well. One of America's top,

1092
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: if not the top, radio talk show host, Donald Trump,

1093
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: actually sent him a text a couple of days ago,

1094
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: saying he's the best at what he does, bar none.

1095
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: Trump also had him at the White House, introduced him

1096
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: in the most flattering of ways. Can't wait to talk

1097
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: to him, particularly about Mum Danny. So it's a big week.

1098
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: Love you all. Thank you so much for joining us here.

1099
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: If you do enjoy what we do here, like share, rate, rank,

1100
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: all the things that they tell you to do in

1101
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: this space. However you do it, we love you for it.

1102
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: If you don't do anything, if you just listen or

1103
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: watch and think, stuff it. I'm not going to share this.

1104
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: I want to keep this for myself. Then we do

1105
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: still love you.

1106
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: But we're brother.

1107
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: If you share, see you tomorrow.