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Speaker 1: My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro

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Speaker 1: American student organization in the country, fighting for the future

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Speaker 1: of our republic. My call is to fight evil and

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Speaker 1: to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you

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Speaker 1: is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But

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Speaker 1: if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end

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Speaker 1: up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to

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Speaker 1: stop sending your kids to college. You should get married

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Speaker 1: as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

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Speaker 1: Go start at turning point. You would say, college chapter.

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Speaker 1: Go start attning point. Yould say high school chapter. Go

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Speaker 1: find out how your church can get involved. Sign up

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Speaker 1: and become an activist. I gave my life to the

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Speaker 1: Lord in fifth grade, most important decision I ever made

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Speaker 1: in my life, and I encourage you to do the same.

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Speaker 1: Here I am Lord, Use me. Buckle up, everybody, Here

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Speaker 1: we go. The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by

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Speaker 1: Preserved Gold, leading gold and silver experts and the only

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Speaker 1: precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

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Speaker 2: So my sense today is on immigration.

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Speaker 3: I think that immigration contributes a lot to America. So

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Speaker 3: my parents did come here legally, and they right now

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Speaker 3: are in the process again and it takes a long time. No,

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Speaker 3: they came here legally like they came with the RISA,

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Speaker 3: and now they're renewing it and it's a different process

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: But so I'm really religious. I'm Catholic. My parents grew

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Speaker 2: me up that way. And in Matthew two.

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Speaker 3: Thirteen through fifteen, it talks about how Jesus had to

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Speaker 3: flee Nazareth or no Bethlehem. Sorry, he had to flee

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Speaker 3: because someone was going to die and they were looking

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Speaker 3: to kill him.

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Speaker 2: And he had to flee.

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Speaker 3: His own country and leave everything behind because an angel

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Speaker 3: spoke to Mary Ann Joseph that they should leave. So

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Speaker 3: a lot of people do that. That's why they immigrate

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Speaker 3: to the United States. A lot of people have to

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Speaker 3: leave everything behind because not everyone just wants to pack

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Speaker 3: up all the things and leave. Right now, I personally

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Speaker 3: would hate if I had to sell my car, my house,

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Speaker 3: leave my parents, leave my friends, and leave everyone. So

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Speaker 3: I just want to know what your stances on that,

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Speaker 3: just because in the Bible it talks about that.

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Speaker 1: Right. So, first of all, Jesus actually didn't emmigrate. He

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Speaker 1: stayed within the confines of the Roman Empire, because Egypt

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Speaker 1: was actually other under Roman jurisdiction. That's a separate point.

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Speaker 1: But there are plenty of verses that says you should

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Speaker 1: welcome the stranger, and so I will grant you that.

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Speaker 1: I guess the first point, the first point I would

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Speaker 1: have to ask is should immigration always benefit the home country?

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Speaker 3: I think so yes, And that is one thing that

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Speaker 3: I looked into. So there are immigrants right now working here, correct,

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Speaker 3: and they get some of their paycheck cut off right

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Speaker 3: because of Social Security and all those benefits.

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Speaker 2: But they don't get those benefits because.

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Speaker 1: They're do you mean legal or illegal immigrants? That distinction

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Speaker 1: is very important.

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Speaker 2: Illegal you get those benefits.

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Speaker 1: So let's just be clear. If they have a social

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Speaker 1: Security number, how did they get that the right way?

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Speaker 1: They stole it. You don't. You don't get a social

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Speaker 1: Security number as an illegal period. It does not happen.

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Speaker 1: They stole it. So that's an act of things. And

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Speaker 1: so they stole an American social Security number to be

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Speaker 1: able to work here, which drives down wages, which drives

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Speaker 1: down opportunity costs. But even beyond that, we just have

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Speaker 1: to look at their action. They were not invited to

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Speaker 1: come to this country. They broke in line, they cut

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Speaker 1: in line, and we should not reward line cutters or

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Speaker 1: border jumpers. We should reward people like your parents that

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Speaker 1: actually came here legally to this company.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I understand that point, I really do.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes people generally need to leave their country because

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Speaker 3: in like my mother's case, for instance, there is like

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Speaker 3: a terrorist attack on my family and that's the reason

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Speaker 3: my mom had to come.

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Speaker 2: And thankfully she did get it immediately.

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Speaker 3: But now I've heard of so many stories where people

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Speaker 3: have to wait like ten years, twenty years, even thirty years.

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Speaker 3: Like my grandma right now is trying to get the process,

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Speaker 3: and thankfully she is now, but it's taken her about

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Speaker 3: ten years now, and she makes enough money in her

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Speaker 3: country and she just wants to come here as a tourist.

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Speaker 3: That's the main reason. And I do understand that. I

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Speaker 3: think that My main point is that how we should

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Speaker 3: implement more money into the immigration system because Trump's zero

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Speaker 3: tolerance policy. That just felt cruel because there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of people here that are doing well and zero tolerance

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Speaker 3: they just had to leave the country.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was yeah, but it's not their

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Speaker 1: country though, And that's the So let me just here's

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Speaker 1: if I went to Mexico without being invited or allowed,

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Speaker 1: and I took a job and the Mexican government found out,

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Speaker 1: what would the Mexican government do to me? I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure they would send me back to America.

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Speaker 2: And why was the reason you left the US first?

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Speaker 1: So reason? That's an interesting thing. Is there ever a

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Speaker 1: legitimate reason in your opinion to commit a crime?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Well, then the reason doesn't matter because under that say, so,

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Speaker 1: can you rob a bank because you wish you had

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Speaker 1: more money? No?

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Speaker 2: You work harder.

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Speaker 1: Then why doesn't that moral standard applied immigration?

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Speaker 3: Because the system is it isn't doing its job. That's

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Speaker 3: why I think we should implement more money, because there

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Speaker 3: is some people like I do get it. You know,

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Speaker 3: some people come here and then I do admit some

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Speaker 3: of them can make crime.

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Speaker 2: But not all of them.

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Speaker 1: No, No, but they're all criminals if they came illegally,

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Speaker 1: that's the distinction. By definition, they're breaking federal law eight USC.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen twelve. Just their presence here is against the law.

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Speaker 1: Would you be okay welcoming in five hundred million people

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Speaker 1: into America?

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Speaker 2: That's why we implement the system to undercent eamil.

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Speaker 1: No, you got to ask, do you think five hundred

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Speaker 1: million people would be too many people?

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Speaker 2: Five hundred million? I don't even think that would fit

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Speaker 2: the United States?

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Speaker 1: I agree, And that's the point is that if everyone,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden declared that their life was in danger,

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Speaker 1: we'd have to let in, like all of Nicaragua, all

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Speaker 1: of Honduras, almost all of Venezuela, the standard all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden starts falling apart. And we find that people

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Speaker 1: lie about this, they deceive it. Here's my perspective. Why

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Speaker 1: don't we try to empower those people to make the

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Speaker 1: countries they're coming from greater and stronger. Else this problem

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Speaker 1: will actually never be fixed at the root level. That

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Speaker 1: makes sense.

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Speaker 3: It does make sense, and I wish it was that easy.

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Speaker 2: So for instance, I am partpar and in Peru.

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Speaker 3: So they were having a presidential election, and the president

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Speaker 3: who was going to win was better for the country

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Speaker 3: and would help out a lot more. But since it's corrupt,

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Speaker 3: they made the other president win. They sent him death threats,

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Speaker 3: nearly almost killed him. He had to fake his death

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Speaker 3: and leave, and they jailed her. They jailed her completely

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Speaker 3: and they let the guy win. That is why it's corrupt.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to fix a country when there's no help

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Speaker 3: towards it. So Peru was they were rooting for the

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Speaker 3: good president. They were rooting to build their system back up,

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Speaker 3: but the other president it was rigged.

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Speaker 2: It was completely rigged.

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Speaker 1: So does it make it better or worse if millions

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Speaker 1: of people leave that country for Peru?

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Speaker 2: Can you like, what do you mean by three million.

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Speaker 1: People left Peru? Does Peru get greater or weaker? Stronger weaker?

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Speaker 2: Neither? I mean, it's in a weak state right now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty obvious. I'm trying to even say

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Speaker 1: that mass immigration is bad for everybody. It's bad for America,

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Speaker 1: and it's bad for the country that people are leaving from.

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Speaker 1: The only difference is that they send back American money

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Speaker 1: through remittances that actually subsidize this entire thing. Let me

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Speaker 1: ask one final question. If somebody comes into America without

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Speaker 1: invitation and they are illegal, what do you think the

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Speaker 1: penalty should be.

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Speaker 3: I think it's humane to look at their case and

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Speaker 3: why they had to leave everything they've ever known.

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Speaker 1: We believe that we should send them back to their

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Speaker 1: country of origin.

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Speaker 3: I just want to make one more final point, so

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Speaker 3: I do understand that. But my final point is that

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Speaker 3: do you agree that we shouldn't pument more money to

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Speaker 3: the immigrations.

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Speaker 1: Vice now I think we should have no immigrants in

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Speaker 1: the country for the next ten years. We have way

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Speaker 1: too many people in this country. And I'll prove it

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Speaker 1: to you here in California. Your hospitals are overrun, your

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Speaker 1: schools are overrun. Do you guys agree that you have

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Speaker 1: a crowded state right now? We are a California is

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Speaker 1: a cluttered state with social services that are being strained,

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Speaker 1: and we need a pause on all immigration in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: to metaphorically digest the major meal that we just ate,

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Speaker 1: or else we are going to have a major major

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Speaker 1: assimilation problem, cultural problem, cohesion problem, all sorts of issues.

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Speaker 1: And I know this is a provocative thing to say,

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Speaker 1: but immigration is something that you use as a way

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Speaker 1: to benefit the homeland. You don't have to have immigration.

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Speaker 3: But just as an example, my parents came here, like

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Speaker 3: I said, legally zero dollars, and they have benefited so

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Speaker 3: much to the country. They have made so much, like

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Speaker 3: one hundreds and thousands dollars.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 1: That's the American dream.

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Speaker 2: It is, and it's just like a hard thing.

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Speaker 1: And I want American boor and young people from UC

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Speaker 1: Riverside to also have that American dream and not have

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Speaker 1: to compete against foreigners for that. Thank you for your time.

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Speaker 2: Can I say one point?

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Speaker 1: We have a long line? Thank you really quick though.

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Speaker 1: Okay again, what is it? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, okay, I understand the American dream is hard.

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Speaker 3: My parents, my mom was pregnant working two jobs one

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Speaker 3: day and she sacrificed everything, and now she has more

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Speaker 3: money than.

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Speaker 1: That American Praise God. That is the American dream. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much, thank you.

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Speaker 5: Imagine being a young woman just finding out that you're pregnant,

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Speaker 5: not knowing where to go or what to do, not

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Speaker 5: even knowing exactly what is going on in your body,

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Speaker 5: while the whole world tells her it's just a clump

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Speaker 5: of cells. You and I we both know the truth.

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Speaker 5: We know it is a baby. And once she has

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Speaker 5: an ultrasound that you provide and she sees the truth

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Speaker 5: of the baby growing inside of her, you help her

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Speaker 5: choose life when you join us in providing ultrasounds with

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Speaker 5: preborn and she sees her baby, and here's her baby's heartbeat.

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Speaker 5: You will double the likelihood that she will choose life,

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Speaker 5: and one hundred percent of what you give goes to

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Speaker 5: providing ultrasounds one hundred percent preborn. Separately, fund raises for

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Speaker 5: administrative cost two hundred and eighty dollars can save ten babies,

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Speaker 5: twenty eight dollars a month can save a baby a

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Speaker 5: month all year long. And a fifteen thousand dollars gift.

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Speaker 5: I know there's some of you out there that can

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Speaker 5: afford this fifteen thousand dollars gift will provide a complete

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Speaker 5: ultrasound machine that will save thousands of babies for years

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Speaker 5: and years to come. Call eight three three eight five

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Speaker 5: zero two two two nine or click on the preborn

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Speaker 5: banner at Charliekirk dot com. Today again, that's eight three

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Speaker 5: three eight five zero two two two nine, or click

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Speaker 5: on the preborn banner at Charliekirk dot com.

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Speaker 6: I want to talk about the debate of abortion, so

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Speaker 6: I know that it's something very controversial. Some people are

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Speaker 6: pro choice, some people are pro life. Before I start,

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Speaker 6: I want to make sure that I understand your opinion fully,

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Speaker 6: so I don't take you know what I've heard online.

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Speaker 6: What is your stance on abortion?

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Speaker 1: Life begins at conception.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so where do you so conception? So is that

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Speaker 6: when sperm enters the egg?

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Speaker 1: Is that during s when new DNA is formed?

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Speaker 6: Okay, when new DNA is formed. So the egg by itself,

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Speaker 6: you don't think is anything? Sorry, the egg of a

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Speaker 6: woman by itself?

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's Okay, it's something, but it's not

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Speaker 1: a life correct?

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Speaker 7: Okay, that's okay.

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Speaker 6: So my question is when you talk about abortion and

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Speaker 6: why you think you so, why you support it, Why

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Speaker 6: you don't support it?

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Speaker 7: Sorry, why you don't support it?

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Speaker 6: What do you use as your evidence? You use scientific evidence?

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Speaker 6: Do you talk about the Bible?

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Speaker 1: Do you use both mainly scientific and self evident reason?

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Speaker 7: Okay? So are you someone who's a follower of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: I am, but that's not relevant to this discussion. But

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Speaker 1: we could talk about it if you like.

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Speaker 6: I find irrelevant because when I'm going to talk about abortion,

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Speaker 6: there's quotes in the Bible that I think support pro

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Speaker 6: choice in my opinion.

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Speaker 7: Bible Exodus.

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Speaker 6: Exodus twenty one twenty two through twenty five, when men

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Speaker 6: strive together and hit a pregnant woman so that her

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Speaker 6: child come out, so miscarriage. But there's no harm to

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Speaker 6: the woman, the one who hit her shall surely be

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Speaker 6: fined as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and

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Speaker 6: he shall pay as a judge and to determine. But

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Speaker 6: if there is harm to the woman, you shall pay

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Speaker 6: life for life, foot for foot, burned for burn, wound

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Speaker 6: for wound, stripe for stripe. So I know that that

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Speaker 6: can be interpreted different ways. The Bible is interpret them

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Speaker 6: any ways, different there's different types, different interpretations. But this

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Speaker 6: says if a person causes a miscarriage through a woman,

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Speaker 6: that they will pay for the abortion. So they they

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Speaker 6: will pay, another one will punish them.

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Speaker 1: That is not what this law says. But let me

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Speaker 1: us ask, are you a Christian?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Then continue So so if you believe in the

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Speaker 1: inerrant word of God, yes, okay, good?

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Speaker 6: Yes, So it says that as the woman's husband shall

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Speaker 6: impose on him and he shall pay as the judges determined.

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Speaker 6: So the judge is determined, and it's talking about the husband.

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Speaker 6: So therefore it's talking about a person, not God himself,

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Speaker 6: not his judgment. So it's saying, if someone has an abortion,

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Speaker 6: we have the right to choose.

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Speaker 1: What to do to them, right and you say it

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Speaker 1: was a miscarriage, not an abortion.

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Speaker 6: It says when man strive together and hit a pregnant woman,

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Speaker 6: so that's causing her to lose the baby, that's outside cause,

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Speaker 6: outside cause. Therefore, it could mean abortion, because some people

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Speaker 6: find that a breasive abortion is through violence such as hitting,

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Speaker 6: because not everyone has access to medical.

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Speaker 1: Was it the intent for them to kill the baby?

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Speaker 7: It's unclarified, so that I cannot tell you.

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Speaker 6: However, what I will say is that it says that

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Speaker 6: it's the judges determine, the husband determines, So God's not

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Speaker 6: making the choice for us what to do with the

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Speaker 6: person who does that to someone's child does that to

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Speaker 6: their own child. But it does say that if the

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Speaker 6: woman is.

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Speaker 7: Harmed her herself, not the child.

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Speaker 6: Then they are liable by God their life for her life,

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Speaker 6: their foot for her foot. So what I'm saying is,

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Speaker 6: if somebody needs an abortion for health care. Let's say

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Speaker 6: a woman baby's not gonna make it, and if the

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Speaker 6: baby stays in her womb, she will die, and they

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Speaker 6: refuse her an abortion, refuse her that healthcare and she dies.

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Speaker 7: Should the doctor be liable under God?

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Speaker 1: First of all, this those instances don't happen. So let's

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Speaker 1: just be clear. No, see, you guys are so propagandized

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Speaker 1: by this that only happens in a very rare case

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Speaker 1: of the breaking of the uteriation.

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Speaker 7: It does happen.

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Speaker 1: But no, but where the baby is already dead. And

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Speaker 1: that's the point, is that the baby is already dead.

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Speaker 1: That's a removal of a carcass of the baby.

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Speaker 7: No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: That's incorrect. No it's not. No, it's not. A removal

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Speaker 1: of a carcass of a baby is not an abortion.

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Speaker 1: Those are two technically different things. It is not a DNA.

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Speaker 1: It is not a DNA. Is something completely different. But then,

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk about scripture, do you think

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Speaker 1: we are bound to all six hundred and thirteen levitical laws?

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Speaker 6: Yes, if you're a follower of the Bible, you cannot

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Speaker 6: pick and choose what you follow.

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Speaker 1: Oh, so you eat kosher?

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Speaker 2: You cannot?

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Speaker 1: Do you eat kosher?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: Well, I thought you were a bound to all six

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Speaker 1: hundred thirteen laws.

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Speaker 7: I'm not perfect. I'm sinner. Everyone hears a sinner.

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Speaker 1: But well, are we bound to it? Do you think

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Speaker 1: Christians should eat kosher?

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Speaker 7: Choose to follow the Bible? You cannot pick and choose what.

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Speaker 1: You of course, but we do believe in a new covenant,

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Speaker 1: old covenant. So there's three types of Old Testament laws. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's ceremonial, there's civil and moral. So ceremonial laws we

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Speaker 1: do not honor. Civil we consider moral.

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Speaker 6: We update it because do humans decide what to follow

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Speaker 6: in God?

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Speaker 1: Because Christ is actually it's not us, it's not humans.

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Speaker 1: So Paul actually authored in the Book of Colossians, that's

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Speaker 1: a human right inspired by the Holy Spirit which wrote

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Speaker 1: the Bible. The ordinances of Moses are nailed to the cross. Secondly, Christ,

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Speaker 1: our Lord, repeated nine out of ten of the nine

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Speaker 1: out of ten of the ten commandments, and he said,

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Speaker 1: all the laws of the Prophet hang upon the two

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Speaker 1: teachings of Leviticus nineteen and Deuteronomy six. But now I

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Speaker 1: equally have to challenge you with scripture in Luke one,

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Speaker 1: when Elizabeth came in contact with Mary and both were babies,

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Speaker 1: what did it say that John the Baptist did.

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Speaker 7: I cannot tell you that he leapt?

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Speaker 1: Okay, do non babies leap?

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Speaker 7: I don't understand the question. I'm gonna be honest.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it a baby? Then? Worthy of protection if they're leaping.

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Speaker 7: I suppose yes.

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Speaker 1: And it was the Greek word breathos, which literally means

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Speaker 1: baby intentionally used throughout hold on and Jeremiah says, I

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Speaker 1: knew you before you're in the womb. In some I

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Speaker 1: think one thirty nine, it's one of the most intricate

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Speaker 1: verses about the detail of our formation process as human beings.

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Speaker 1: And finally, because of science, because of biology, we know

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Speaker 1: that human life begins at that spark of new DNA,

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Speaker 1: and God says, do not murder, and it's incumbent on

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Speaker 1: Christians that therefore protect that life.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so my biggest question is I'm not saying that

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Speaker 6: all abortion is valid. I feel like that's up for

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Speaker 6: everyone to decide. But in the most even if it's

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Speaker 6: very small percentage, in the very small percentage, that a

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Speaker 6: baby is alive, but it has to be aborted for

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Speaker 6: the sake of the mother.

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Speaker 1: What do you think the section? What is a C section?

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Speaker 7: A sea section is when you cut the mother's Wait.

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Speaker 1: Why don't they do that instead of the abortion.

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Speaker 7: Because it could be equally as dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Wrong, it's much safer than an abortion and quicker.

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Speaker 7: Do you have evidence?

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Speaker 1: I mean yes, it's it's it's self evident. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me, I mean again, I there's plenty of people,

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Speaker 1: he has, plenty of people that are in medicine can

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Speaker 1: tell you. But like to be very clear, think about it.

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Speaker 1: Every hospital is equipped to do sea sections. You have

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Speaker 1: to go to a specific place for an abortion and

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Speaker 1: a C section. One third out of everyone in this

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Speaker 1: audience was born by C section. Se sections save lives,

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Speaker 1: they do not terminate lives. And so when they say

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Speaker 1: we must abort the baby thanks to modern technology, that's

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Speaker 1: actually a false choice. You could take the baby out

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Speaker 1: of the environment and try to save its life as

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Speaker 1: a cesarean section.

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Speaker 6: What if when the sea section happens, the baby's not

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Speaker 6: able to survive on its own no matter what.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, then that's a separate circumstance. It's like saying,

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Speaker 1: if the baby has a heart attack after the sea section,

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Speaker 1: that's not a reason not to terminate it. What do

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Speaker 1: you mean if you have to give everybody a chance

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Speaker 1: at life, you don't kill the baby in the womb

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Speaker 1: just because you think that it's going to well, it

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Speaker 1: could hurt the mother. You take it out of that environment.

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Speaker 6: Okay, but what I'm saying is if they take the

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Speaker 6: baby out and they know it's not gonna survive, regardless,

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Speaker 6: how they.

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Speaker 1: Know that post twenty two weeks. You don't know that.

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Speaker 1: There's miracles that happen every day in the neonatal life,

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Speaker 1: in the neonatal intensive care unit, there's miracles that happen

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Speaker 1: every day in niicu's And I.

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Speaker 6: Agree, there's definitely they don't know one hundred percent for sure,

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Speaker 6: but there's definitely probability through science, through biology that they know, hey,

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Speaker 6: this is more likely gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: We don't do morals on probability.

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Speaker 7: We're not saying it's morality.

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Speaker 6: I'm saying probability of a baby's gonna survive or doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: You don't terminate a life based on a probability of survival.

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Speaker 1: Oh you do. Interesting? You guys murder people based on

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Speaker 1: probability of survival. Interesting. So somebody on a ventilator should

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Speaker 1: just be murdered. I mean, it's such an incredible morality.

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Speaker 6: Which we keep someone on a ventilator for the entirenent

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Speaker 6: of everything else.

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Speaker 1: Then it depends there's two different things. There's no more

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Speaker 1: and not yet. Once you reach the level of no more.

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Speaker 1: Human interventions can improve this person's life or bring them

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Speaker 1: back to a full life. That is a separate moral

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Speaker 1: decision than not yet. When a human being is at

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Speaker 1: not yet, which they are in the womb, you must

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Speaker 1: do everything you can to make sure they get life.

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Speaker 1: When a human being is that no more, it's a

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Speaker 1: completely separate moral dimension and decision. To make no more

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Speaker 1: and not yet are the ways to look at pro

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Speaker 1: life decays. That makes sense.

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Speaker 7: Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you for debating with me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 7: Don't agree to disagree.

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Speaker 5: That's the letter why then refi dot com And remember

442
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 5: y Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just

443
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 5: go to yrefi dot com and tell them your friend

444
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 5: Andrews sent you.

445
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 4: I have a friend named Thomas Sheety. He is the

446
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 4: founder of an organization called Atheist for Liberty. He is

447
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 4: openly conservative, but he's mostly interested in atheist activism and

448
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 4: normalizing atheism in all sex, including the Conservative movement. He

449
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 4: seems to be under the impression that a lot of concerntism,

450
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 4: including you, are more hesitant to work with atheist organizations.

451
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 4: Is there any truth to that?

452
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: Yes and no. I mean, if you an atheist and

453
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: you want to be part of the conservative movement, go ahead,

454
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 1: but you must be an honest atheist and acknowledge that

455
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 1: morality is definitionally subjective. Without a belief in God, you

456
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: cannot be an atheist and believe an objective morality. It

457
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: is an impossibility and true atheists will acknowledge us. At

458
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: some point you have an ought claim, well, things ought

459
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: to be a certain way. We as Christians, are we

460
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 1: that believe in the divine we have is claims that

461
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: there murder is wrong, whereas an atheist will say, well,

462
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,959
Speaker 1: murder ought to be wrong, because you can't have an

463
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: objective definition if there is not a divine eternal power

464
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: over you. So look, if an atheist wants to fight

465
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: alongside of us to end abortion or to try and

466
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 1: end the massacring of our kids, that's called gender affirming care.

467
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: And or if an atheist wants to march alongside of

468
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: us to say no men in female sports, they're more

469
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: than welcome to be able to do that. But atheists

470
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: for liberty is an interesting phrase because I don't believe

471
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: you can have liberty without God, because liberty is not

472
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: man's idea, it is God's idea. That's just my own

473
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: personal belief, and it's also the belief of everything that

474
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: built this nation. But yes, I'm I know a lot

475
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: of good atheists. The question, though, is how do you

476
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: know they're good. It's because you're appealing to a moral

477
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: authority above just the secular material realm, one that is

478
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: transcendent we would believe given by God.

479
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe in objective morality. I do know

480
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 4: there are planet of atheists who are moral objectivist?

481
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: Or are you an atheist? Sorry interrupt, but oh yeah, yeah, okay, cool? Please,

482
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: so let me just can I ask you a question?

483
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: And I don't mean I know this is your first

484
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: time at the mic, so I'm just going to try

485
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: to be tender in doing this. I appreciate. So you

486
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: don't believe in objective morality, right, I personally don't. Okay,

487
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: was the Holocaust objectively wrong? Objectively no?

488
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 4: But it have been better if it didn't happen because

489
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 4: most people won't want that to happen.

490
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: So that's that's where we that's where we are on

491
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: different planets, and that's okay. I'm not trying to make

492
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: fun of you. I'm trying to be graceful in the

493
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: way that we're going about this. Do you think Hitler

494
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: was objectively evil?

495
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 6: No?

496
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: Because of the subjective But I just hope all of

497
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: you guys unders and he's being an honest atheist to

498
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: your credit, because as an atheist, you're not allowed to

499
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: say anything is objectively right or wrong. I come from

500
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: a worldview that when you butcher six million people, that

501
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: is objectively wrong, no matter what. And it's very important.

502
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: It's a very important truth claim because when you do

503
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: not have objective truth anchoring your society, then it becomes

504
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 1: a power struggle. If you do not have truth, then

505
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: power will reign. Whoever you get the most amount of

506
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: power then ends up having the most amount of say

507
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: over society. We believe what is objectively right, true, good,

508
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: and beautiful should be transcendent over society. Your thoughts, So, do.

509
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 4: You believe objective morality specifically comes from the Bible?

510
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: Yes? And no. It's in nature and the Bible explains nature.

511
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: So objective morality can be discovered in many different cultures

512
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: and societies, pointing towards what we believe is the ultimate

513
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: objective truth. Jesus Christ C. S. Lewis explain this the

514
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: best in his book Abolition of Man, which is that

515
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: almost every religion talks about a certain way to live,

516
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: a dow or a path that we should be on.

517
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: And so more more simply than just the Bible, we

518
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: believe in what the founders believed, which is an ethical

519
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: monotheism that there is one God. He has a general

520
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: way that he wants you to live. For example, murdering

521
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: is bad, kidnapping his wrong, defense of the innocent, and

522
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: we should do our best to try to live alongside

523
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: of that path.

524
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: Okay, well, I think those are very interesting examples. You

525
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 4: bring up the Founders, you bring up Hitler. But Hitler

526
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: was this heelp proclaim Catholic, and he called Nazism and

527
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: Christian movements.

528
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be careful saying that he was. He

529
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: was not. That's okay, I call himself a Catholic, he said.

530
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 4: He specifically said in nineteen twenty seven, our movement as Christian,

531
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 4: they had on the belt buckles God on our side.

532
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 4: Yet they then swear to the Almighty God. Atheists were

533
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 4: not trusted to be in the SS.

534
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: Even if I grant you that, despite the fact that

535
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: he killed a lot of pastors and priests, and there

536
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: of course you can pervert things in the name of God,

537
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: no one denounces that. Just as a side note, though

538
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: far more people died under the banner of atheism than

539
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: Christianity in the twentieth century, Mao was an atheist, Stalin

540
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: was an atheist. Paul Pott was an atheist believing in

541
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: no God actually led to the destruction the murder of

542
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: well over one hundred million people. And that's fine. So again,

543
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: if atheists want to come alongside us as conservatives and

544
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: fight for what is good, that is great. But I

545
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: will never acknowledge that atheists can tell me what is

546
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: objectively good. They can only give me a preference. They

547
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: cannot tell me what is right, and preferences eventually will

548
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: lead you towards moral and societal decline.

549
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 4: Okay, So I think you just listened a bunch of communists,

550
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 4: and it's worth acknowledging the vast majory of atheists are

551
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 4: not communists, just like the basst majority Christians are not

552
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 4: theocrats who don't support the divine right. It's also worth

553
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 4: acknowledging that the founders were actually inspired by Enlightenment values,

554
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 4: not by the Bible. America was founder is the second nation.

555
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 4: We were the first quote unquote gallis constitution.

556
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Again, I've done this so many times, so I don't

557
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: know if we want to waste our time doing this.

558
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: But fifty five out of fifty six of the signers

559
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: of the declaration were Bible believing church attending Christians. Nine

560
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: out of thirteen of the states of the time of

561
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: ratification require a declaration of faith in order for you

562
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: to serve in the states we were. Our birth certificate,

563
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: which is a Mayflower compact, said explicitly we are here

564
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: to spread Christianity throughout the land. It was the first

565
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: great Revival that led to the American Revolution of Jonathan

566
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: Words and Jonathan Mayhew and George Whitfield that preached all

567
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: across the Eastern seaboard. John Adam seamlessly said, the Constitution

568
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: is written solely for a moral and religious people. It's

569
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: wholly inadequate for the people of any other. We were

570
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: a Christian nation that was able to embrace the idea

571
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: of a free society. God has mentioned four times in

572
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence. Not only that, Jesus Christ is

573
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Declaration Dependence, where it says we appeal

574
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: to the divine judge of the Universe, which of course

575
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: is a direct appeal to Jesus in the Book of Revelation. Yes,

576
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: there were rationalists Enlightenment values that informed some of the founders,

577
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: but it irrefutably was a Christian nation. Maryland was Catholic,

578
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania was Quaker, almost every state had their own specific

579
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: type of Christian preference. The idea of an atheist or

580
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: not believing in any god was an idea that was

581
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: so foreign to the Founders. Even Thomas Jefferson, the great Deist,

582
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: he revered the Bible, albeit with some significant edits. However,

583
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: the idea of believing in no cosmological or no axiological

584
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: or no teleological or no optological being would be a

585
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: concept that our founding fathers and not just find foreign,

586
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: they would find it extraordinarily dangerous. Why because the French

587
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: Revolution was happening simultaneously as the American Revolution, which was

588
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: explicitly atheist. They actually recreated their own gods and had

589
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: They said, we are going to appeal to what the

590
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: God of reason. And this is my final contention, is

591
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: that when I talked to atheists, the French Revolution is

592
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: a great example. They literally tried to change the Gregorian

593
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: calendar to a ten day week. They went and imprisoned

594
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,479
Speaker 1: people of faith, they put priests in jail, all these

595
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: different sorts of things. They said, we are going to

596
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: appeal to the God of reason. Well, how did that

597
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: work out? It worked out with the guillotine and the

598
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: slaughter of tens of thousands of people. The French Revolution

599
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: was one of the greatest disasters in human recorded history.

600
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: Contrast that with the American Why did the American Revolution

601
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: create the greatest nation ever to exist in the history

602
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: of the world? And the French Revolution resulted in a

603
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: lot of blood and even the killing of their own

604
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: once leader, Maximilian rob Spiere, it's because we were anchored

605
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: on Christian ideas. If you are not anchored on Christian ideas,

606
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: then don't be surprised and all of a sudden, there

607
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: is no fruit to the harvest that you're trying to create.

608
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 5: Before he ever stepped behind a microphone, Charlie understood something important.

609
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 5: Leadership begins with learning. He didn't chase a diploma or

610
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: a title. He chased truth. Through Hillsdale College's free online courses.

611
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 5: He studied the great works of the Classics, the principles

612
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 5: of the American Founding, and the life changing truths of

613
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 5: the Bible. Those ideas didn't just inform him, they shaped

614
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 5: his character, strengthened his convictions, and prepared him for the

615
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 5: challenges ahead of One of the courses he took was

616
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 5: the Genesis Story, taught by Hillsdale Professor doctor Justin Jackson.

617
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 5: This free online course explores the relationship between God and man,

618
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 5: what happens when that relationship is broken, and the path

619
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 5: toward reconciliation. Real college course, rigorous, thoughtful, and accessible to

620
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 5: anyone willing to learn. You can take the very same

621
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 5: course completely free. Grow stronger in your faith, gain clarity

622
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 5: about humanity and your place in the world. Prepare yourself

623
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 5: for a life with courage and conviction. Visit Charlie for

624
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 5: Hillsdale dot com to enroll today. That's Charlie for Hillsdale

625
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 5: dot com. Learn Deeply, Lead, boldly, Carry it forward.

626
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 8: I'm an atheist, so I disagree with your religious claims.

627
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: Do you believe in absolute truth?

628
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 8: I'm not sure you can provide me this positive evidence

629
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 8: that there is absolute truth. So the question, the answer

630
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 8: would be, I'm not.

631
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Sure, are you? Are you absolutely not sure?

632
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 8: I'm not sure if I'm absolutely not sure. See, this

633
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 8: works if you say no, but it doesn't work if

634
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 8: you bought them out in the I don't know a question.

635
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: Right, No, But saying you're not sure, you are not

636
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: even sure. If you're not suret so at some point

637
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: you're just always have to make a truth claim.

638
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 8: Yet, No, you can just be not sure about everything

639
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 8: all the way down. I don't see why you can't.

640
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 8: And my answer would be, I think truth is instrumental

641
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 8: list in theory. I think it's the thing we choose

642
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 8: pragmatically for the purposes of discussion. I think you can say, yeah,

643
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 8: I think truth exists pragmatically. Regardless of that, I don't

644
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 8: see how you get to God.

645
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: Are you alive? Huh? Are you alive?

646
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 8: I think I'm alive.

647
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're a life.

648
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 8: Yeah.

649
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: Is the sun? Is the sun shining?

650
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 8: I think it's shining.

651
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

652
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 8: From my frame of reference, it is shining. Notice Notice

653
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 8: how none of this I mean, so, notice how you've

654
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 8: gotten no steps closer to proving God.

655
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking questions. Man, OK, yeah, but are you

656
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: sure we did it? Yeah?

657
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 8: I'm sure. Are you sure I'm sure in the practice God,

658
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 8: I'm I'm sure in the pragmatic insd in the pragmatic

659
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 8: instrumentalist sense, absolutely sure. I see truth as a utility.

660
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: So there is a truth that's absolute.

661
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 8: No, it's it's instrumentally. No, absolutely sure in the instrumentalist

662
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 8: sense of the word truth. This is a philosophical tradition

663
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 8: that dates back hundreds of years. Instrumentalism, Yeah, which, of

664
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 8: course we don't subscribe to obviously.

665
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: So do you believe that murder is objectively wrong?

666
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 8: Epistemologically objective or ontologically objective?

667
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: Morally?

668
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 8: See you didn't answer the question.

669
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: But both both epistemologically and ontologically. But for the purpose

670
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: of discussion.

671
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 8: From wait, okay, so by what you mean? No, I

672
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 8: don't think it's objective.

673
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: Was Hitler a bad person objectively? No?

674
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 8: If you mean by by the way, by the way,

675
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 8: wait wait wait, wait, wait.

676
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: Wait, no, but he's being honest at its core, atheists

677
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: cannot wait?

678
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 8: Can I make the claim?

679
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: Now?

680
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 8: Notice who here is relying on feelings and knocked facts.

681
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 8: Your argument is I feel that Hitler was objective?

682
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: No I know?

683
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 8: No, no, you feel that way. Can you provide me

684
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 8: evidence of how you know? Can you provide me evidence

685
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 8: that morality is objective?

686
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: No? Of course I can't, because well, first of all,

687
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: morality is both reason and revelation, and it's built within

688
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: to us that murder is wrong.

689
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, okay, where's your evidence of that?

690
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry?

691
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 8: Is that a that's a claim, not evidence? That's a claim.

692
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, we could we could spend multiple hours. But in

693
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: the Western tradition, So notice.

694
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 8: You're saying by tradition, by by my standards, but all

695
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 8: claims of non truth value hold on.

696
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: Yes they are. We believe that truth was revealed to us.

697
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 8: We believe claim.

698
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: But by God, hold on. But let me let me

699
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: we can get there. You can keep on interrupting us. Okay,

700
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: but let me prove to you how silly your viewpoint

701
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: is and how self evidently wrong? Is it objectively wrong

702
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: to kids?

703
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 8: When you say objective? What I mean by objective? Once again?

704
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 8: Once again?

705
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: Can I ask you something?

706
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 8: And I don't know. I just notice how you still

707
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 8: haven't given me dispositive evidence and real he's objective. You're

708
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 8: merely saying, my answer is I feel that way. Sure,

709
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 8: I feel that way.

710
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: It's objective. It's objectively wrong to the laws of nature

711
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: of nature, the self evident nature of existence.

712
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 8: Where is your proof that itself? Show me the logical

713
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 8: proof that it's self evidence?

714
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: Okay, it's it's in your reason that God gave you,

715
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: in the consciousness gave it to me.

716
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 8: Prove that God gave it to me.

717
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: Okay, But again, your existence is proof of that. You're again,

718
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: we can get back down to the first principle of this.

719
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 8: But we can, but you don't want to because you

720
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 8: know it doesn't look good. No, it looks actually really

721
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 8: good because because built with built within.

722
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: Again, interrupting does not make you right, so you keep

723
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: repeating your point. No I don't, So let me ask

724
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: you a question in closing. Since you can't objectively say

725
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: that Hitler was bad or that child is wrong. So

726
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: how did the universe come into it existence? I don't know, okay,

727
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: but science says that it was a big bang or

728
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: a beginning point, right, okay, So using logic, which you believe,

729
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: this is the column cosmological Again, you keep interrupting using

730
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: using logic, if space, time and matter had a starting point,

731
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: then logically shouldn't something outside of space, time and matter

732
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: have started those things.

733
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 8: How do you know that cause is personal? How do

734
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 8: you know that cause is worth praying to?

735
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: That's anything, that's not the question.

736
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 8: Wait, okay, sure there is a cause.

737
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: Oh that God, because it's outside of space.

738
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 8: You believe in different things about that? Do you think

739
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 8: that God is personal?

740
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: That's not That's not what we're debating. We are arguing about.

741
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 8: God is religion.

742
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: Hold on, no, No, we're not debating. We're debating whether not

743
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: there's a God or not.

744
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 8: No, the Christian God. I said religion. That you're a

745
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 8: religious person. You said Christian in nature, you follow a

746
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 8: religious tradition.

747
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: Hold down, you said you're an atheist.

748
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 8: We know God, God historically a Quinnas even defines it

749
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 8: this way, is a personal God. You still haven't gotten to.

750
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: Me to prove that. I'm happy to get to that.

751
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 8: Okay, then get to it.

752
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 1: Look, here's here's what I find with atheists. They don't

753
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: want to worship or acknowledge God because many atheists think

754
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: they are God. And you and body that really, well.

755
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 8: I didn't know you were a mind reader, Charlie. This

756
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 8: is news to me.

757
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: It's not a mind reader. I can tell by your behavior.

758
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: I will say this. I hope that you give your

759
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: life to Jesus Christ. I hope you do.

760
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 8: I hope you can find evidence.

761
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: I hope you can find you know what's interesting, there

762
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: is evidence, there is evidence that Jesus. Hold on last thing,

763
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: do you believe Jesus Christ was a real historical figure?

764
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 5: Yes?

765
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: Do you believe that the Gospels are historically accurate and

766
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: we improve them with archaeological evidence.

767
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 8: Some parts are some parts are some parts are metaphors,

768
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 8: some parts are allegory, some parts are literal. It depends.

769
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 8: Some parts are attempts at history. Which book or gospel.

770
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: Using rational analysis? Why would the disciples lie about the

771
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: resurrection of Christ?

772
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 8: Okay, we can talk about this people. They can be

773
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 8: mistaken mistakenly wrong about it.

774
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: So they would be mistakenly wrong up to the point

775
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: where they get.

776
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 8: Mart The whole point of being the whole point of

777
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 8: being mistakingly wrong about something is you believe it's true.

778
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: All the way up until the point of death.

779
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 8: The whole point of being mistakenly wrong about something.

780
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I understand your position.

781
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: Your position is that the twelve disciples who knew Christ best,

782
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: saw him die, and then they all believed the mistaken

783
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: conspiracy for the rest of their life. Yes, spread all

784
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: of them together as a conspiracy.

785
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 8: Yes. Yes, there is no first tund account from the

786
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 8: five hundred that gospels are all written by these people.

787
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 8: People have died for crazy claims in the past that

788
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 8: we know aren't true. These are all facts about him.

789
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: It's not correct. Okay. One of the Gospels was written

790
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: by one of his closest associates, Matthew. The next collector

791
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: Luke was a fact fire that was hired.

792
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 8: I didn't say the Gospels weren'tritten by them. I said

793
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 8: there's no evidence from the five hundred that he appeared to.

794
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 8: There's no first hand accounts.

795
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: Again, that's not correct. Thank you for your time. We'll

796
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: get the next oation you can. We will pray for you.

797
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: Thank you.

798
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 8: For more on many of these stories and news you

799
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 8: can trust, go to Charliekirk dot com