Speaker 1: Life audio in today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: I'm calling in Dennis, because just yesterday I found out
Speaker 2: my wife was having an affair for three weeks, so
Speaker 2: I know that was that was that long. I found
Speaker 2: out she met him through some connectivity that she had
Speaker 2: a work and.
Speaker 3: Wait, she met him through through what at work they had.
Speaker 2: They had like a small employed party and stuff, and
Speaker 2: she met him and they went into a bowling place
Speaker 2: and she met somebody around there, and you know, she
Speaker 2: actually ended up kissing the person and she I found
Speaker 2: out that she went out a couple other times.
Speaker 3: And you were told this by colleagues of hers. Is
Speaker 3: that it?
Speaker 2: No, she told me herself.
Speaker 1: That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Thousands of hours of
Speaker 1: Dennist's lectures courses in classic radio programs had to purchase
Speaker 1: Dennispragger's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennispragger dot com.
Speaker 3: I'm old fashioned. I like two sexes. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I think all of a sudden, I don't like being
Speaker 3: married to what is known as a new woman. I
Speaker 3: want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor competitor.
Speaker 1: Talk about a bit this crying in the morning things, depression.
Speaker 1: You know, let's get that fixed.
Speaker 4: That's what men think, isn't it. Well, unless you've got
Speaker 4: the answer, unless you can say, oh, I know this
Speaker 4: bloke in the essex ridicule, fix that and there's no
Speaker 4: point bothering.
Speaker 5: How do you write women so well?
Speaker 6: I think of a man and I take away reason
Speaker 6: and accountability. I love him, I love him and I
Speaker 6: don't care what you think.
Speaker 4: I love him for the for the man he wants
Speaker 4: to be, and I love him for the man that
Speaker 4: he almost is.
Speaker 2: What do people have rows about him?
Speaker 3: Money?
Speaker 4: It's sex sex, money he wants, she doesn't want, she wants,
Speaker 4: he doesn't want women.
Speaker 2: I've always been a big problem to me. Doctor Fuss
Speaker 2: bends Yes, Yes, yes, go on, gone.
Speaker 3: Hi everybody, It's the Male Female Hour, and I hope
Speaker 3: you missed it. During the vacation in Africa, thought about
Speaker 3: a lot of new topics and this is the hour
Speaker 3: devoted one hour each week to male female men women issues.
Speaker 3: They are huge. When I was a kid, that was
Speaker 3: called the Battle of the sexes, and I remember as
Speaker 3: a kid thinking, what does that mean? Battle of the sexes.
Speaker 3: Aren't men and women supposed to love each other and
Speaker 3: get a lot? Well, it's good as a child, it's
Speaker 3: good to be naive. As an adult, it's it's almost criminal,
Speaker 3: that's the way I look at it. An innocence in
Speaker 3: a child is beautiful. Innocence in an adult is not beautiful.
Speaker 3: But that's a separate subject for another time, maybe an
Speaker 3: ultimate issues hour. So hi, my friends, this is Dennis
Speaker 3: Praeger and I have a very very sensitive issue. It
Speaker 3: doesn't get more sensitive than this. They may be equally,
Speaker 3: but I don't think there are more sensitive. So here goes.
Speaker 3: And this is as we as many of the male
Speaker 3: female errors. It's adult oriented, but it's it's certainly okay
Speaker 3: for you know anyway, I think any kid thirteen or
Speaker 3: over to here, and you make your judgment below that.
Speaker 3: All right, here goes, my friends. The topic is when
Speaker 3: one spouse has an affair. Those of you who have
Speaker 3: listened to me over the years have heard in different
Speaker 3: context when we've discussed micro subjects, and this is one
Speaker 3: program that discuss discusses both the micro and the macro,
Speaker 3: the personal and the social, global, philosophical, political, etc. I
Speaker 3: have said on many occasions that I think it's a
Speaker 3: very big mistake for a marriage to automatically end because
Speaker 3: one of the spouses had an affair. I have always
Speaker 3: felt that, and I felt that before I ever married,
Speaker 3: and I feel that today. So this is a lifetime
Speaker 3: of consistency. I may be consistently wrong, but this is
Speaker 3: something I've never wavered on. I have never even well,
Speaker 3: I don't know say, understood, but I've never accepted the
Speaker 3: argument that an affair should automatically that's the key word here, automatically.
Speaker 3: There were times when an affair reveals such fractures in
Speaker 3: a marriage that of course it's going to dissolve, or
Speaker 3: as someone one of the spouses just repeatedly does it,
Speaker 3: then who will you married to? You're married to somebody
Speaker 3: who keeps making love to other people. I mean, so,
Speaker 3: of course there are times when it will logically, tragically
Speaker 3: but logically, lead to the dissolution of a marriage. But
Speaker 3: I'm talking about a person. Let's say you have I
Speaker 3: don't know, a ten year, twenty year, let alone longer marriage,
Speaker 3: and especially with children, I think it's very unwise to
Speaker 3: automatically end the marriage because the spouse and I hold
Speaker 3: it's true for both spouses. For both there may well
Speaker 3: be different reasons, and I think there are generally speaking,
Speaker 3: different reasons, and sometimes there are the same reasons for
Speaker 3: why a man or a woman would be unfaithful. But
Speaker 3: that's not my subject. My subject is that whichever, if
Speaker 3: it's the wife or the husband, that it should not
Speaker 3: automatically in a man who says, you know, my wife
Speaker 3: does that, Hey I'm out of here. Man, I am
Speaker 3: out of here, or a woman says my husband does that,
Speaker 3: I'm out of here automatically. I don't care. I don't
Speaker 3: care how many good years we had. I don't care
Speaker 3: how much we have made. It worked so hard to
Speaker 3: make a family. That is so wrong, It is so hurtful,
Speaker 3: it is so trust destroying that I can't go on.
Speaker 3: That's the end of the issue. I don't agree with
Speaker 3: that hurtful, trust destroying all these things. I understand that
Speaker 3: that's not the point. So here is what I would
Speaker 3: like from you, and I think that listeners would find
Speaker 3: fascinating in the best sense of the word fascinating, because
Speaker 3: it could also be helpful. Here are my questions to you.
Speaker 3: Number one, has this happened in your marriage and you
Speaker 3: went on to survive if you have, in other words,
Speaker 3: you went on not personally to survive. I assume people
Speaker 3: can do that. I mean, your marriage survives if that
Speaker 3: has happened, either the wife or the husband has had
Speaker 3: an affair and you have somehow been able to go
Speaker 3: on in the marriage and for the marriage to actually
Speaker 3: not only go on ultimately successfully, but even perhaps better.
Speaker 3: As I have heard it on occasion, I'd like you
Speaker 3: to call me. I'd like people to hear if hearing
Speaker 3: from you who have undergone this is more effective than
Speaker 3: hearing from me, theoretically talk about it. One eighth Praguer
Speaker 3: seven seven six eight seven seven two four to three
Speaker 3: triple seven six eight seven seven two four to three
Speaker 3: seven seven seven six one eight Praguer seven seven six.
Speaker 3: Uh So again, that's one type of call that I want.
Speaker 3: By the way, if you if you want to take
Speaker 3: issue with me, you are more than more than welcome
Speaker 3: as well. If you think I'm sorry, Dennis, it automatically
Speaker 3: ends a marriage, please call me too. But I'm there
Speaker 3: are there are specific ones I would like, but I'm
Speaker 3: very I don't know about the word happy, but I'm
Speaker 3: certainly welcome of all calls on this There's another type
Speaker 3: of call that I would be very interested in, and
Speaker 3: that is if you did in fact break up because
Speaker 3: of the affair, and now looking back, think, well, maybe
Speaker 3: that was an error. Maybe I acted too hastily, I
Speaker 3: was too angry, and I wish I had given it
Speaker 3: a chance, because the truth is he is a good
Speaker 3: guy who made a mistake or who was weak, or
Speaker 3: maybe I even had some hand in it, or vice versa.
Speaker 3: She was a wonderful woman and I let her go
Speaker 3: when in fact that was a big mistake. I was
Speaker 3: just too angry, or his ego ego involvement in ego determining.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's also a possibility, looking back, if you
Speaker 3: did break up because and your marriage because of that.
Speaker 3: I every one of my male female hours, which is
Speaker 3: each week at this time, is has one ultimate purpose.
Speaker 3: There were many purposes, but it has one ultimate purpose,
Speaker 3: and that is to help your marriages, to help you
Speaker 3: understand the the other sex if you're not married. That
Speaker 3: those those are the purposes of the of this period.
Speaker 3: You may take issue with my with my outlook and
Speaker 3: I and I and I love when I get those calls. Alrighty,
Speaker 3: let's go to uh, let's go to some of your
Speaker 3: calls immediately and will begin in Santa Clarita, California and Steven. Hello, Stephen,
Speaker 3: thank you for calling. This is Dennis Prager. Hello Dennis,
Speaker 3: how I'm well, thank you?
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm calling in Dennis because just yesterday I found
Speaker 2: out my wife was having an affair for three weeks,
Speaker 2: so I know that was was that long. I found out. Uh,
Speaker 2: she met him through some connectivity that she had a work.
Speaker 3: And the way she met him through through.
Speaker 2: At work, well, they had they had like a small
Speaker 2: employed party and stuff, and she met him and they
Speaker 2: went into a bowling place and she met somebody around
Speaker 2: there and you know, she actually ended up kissing the
Speaker 2: person and she I found out that she went out
Speaker 2: a couple other times.
Speaker 3: You were told this by colleagues of hers. Is that it?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: She told me herself. Oh interesting, because I started getting
Speaker 2: feelings and.
Speaker 3: You know, I started, how long were you married?
Speaker 2: I've been married. I'm going to be six years in June,
Speaker 2: and you are you are how old?
Speaker 3: And she is your age?
Speaker 2: Just three years older?
Speaker 3: Okay, fine, Oh that's interesting. You know I have this
Speaker 3: is this is you know, not an explanation, but I
Speaker 3: have a theory about women that at twenty nine, at
Speaker 3: least American women. I can't speak for all women on earth,
Speaker 3: but at our time and for few decades, at least
Speaker 3: twenty nine is like a magic age for a woman
Speaker 3: to undergo tremendous changes and questioning about her life. So
Speaker 3: it's interesting that you mentioned how old she was. I'm
Speaker 3: going to talk to you when we come back, so
Speaker 3: she told him after three weeks. Here is a good
Speaker 3: example of something where we'll try to work this through.
Speaker 3: As you know, we don't have all the time in
Speaker 3: the world on radio, but I would love to speak
Speaker 3: to her as well obviously. Anyway, one eighth Praguer seven
Speaker 3: seven six is the number. You can, of course get
Speaker 3: all of my broadcasts downloaded at prager Topia at either
Speaker 3: of my websites. We come back.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, Dennis Prager here. This is the Male Female
Speaker 3: Hour every week at this time. And Betty tells me
Speaker 3: at the at Dennispraguer dot Com that they have just
Speaker 3: compiled in time for Valentine's Day forty eight of the
Speaker 3: show's commercial free, highest fidelity on sixteen CDs. It's an
Speaker 3: awesome gift and it's eight hundred two two five eighty
Speaker 3: five eighty four eight hundred two two five eight five
Speaker 3: eight four or Dennis Praguer dot com eight hundred two
Speaker 3: two five eight five eight four. And I'm talking to
Speaker 3: you about the affair the husband or the wife has one.
Speaker 3: I strongly advocated that that in and of itself should
Speaker 3: never automatically end a marriage. And uh were I'm asking
Speaker 3: for your experiences in this regard. Steven is twenty seven,
Speaker 3: his wife is thirty. She just told him that she
Speaker 3: has had a three week affair. Stephen, I, does she
Speaker 3: want to stay in the in the in the marriage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she she feels very repentful. We actually have some
Speaker 2: friends who are our ex pastors who moved. They're helping
Speaker 2: us through this, and she feels repentful. She says that
Speaker 2: she already called them and cut the whole thing off.
Speaker 2: And you know we talked about yesterday.
Speaker 3: It's just yeah, it's hard, it's very hard. It's it's terrible,
Speaker 3: of course, that's that's that's why I have to do
Speaker 3: a show on why it shouldn't automatically a marriages because
Speaker 3: it is so awful in the in in how the
Speaker 3: other person feels. Do you do you are you willing
Speaker 3: to to work on the marriage with her? Or or
Speaker 3: do you do you feel it's over?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I really think I'm willing to work Dennis, you know,
Speaker 2: but you know, like to I woke up to day
Speaker 2: this morning after you know, we talked and everything, and
Speaker 2: you know, and part of me I feel angry, like
Speaker 2: you know, I want to get revenge and her like
Speaker 2: hurt her back. But you know, I mean, I guess
Speaker 2: that's where you know, my faith comes in.
Speaker 3: And by the way, that's a very normal reaction. And
Speaker 3: a lot of times what somebody does is have an
Speaker 3: affair and say, you know, two can do this, not
Speaker 3: just one. That's a very common reaction. It's a very
Speaker 3: understandable one. It's not advisable, but it's very understandable. But
Speaker 3: I'm just happy to know that you don't automatically feel
Speaker 3: it has ended the marriage. Did she give you a
Speaker 3: reason or what? Was it just you know, I got
Speaker 3: a little wild or frankly, I'm not that crazily in
Speaker 3: love at home? Did she give her reason?
Speaker 2: Her reason was that she just started entertaining thoughts and
Speaker 2: she used to before I met her. She used to
Speaker 2: be going out and stuff. And she said in the
Speaker 2: way she started missing that and thought were coming back
Speaker 2: to her head.
Speaker 3: The excitement. Yeah, yeah, exactly, we have to talk about
Speaker 3: excitement may be a happiness hour or not. Well, listen, Steven,
Speaker 3: God bless you and God bless your wife, and please
Speaker 3: continue your journey to heal. And she has to work
Speaker 3: on this a lot, and repentance is exactly what's called for.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you. We go to Pensacola, Florida, and
Speaker 3: Scott Scott, thank you for calling. This is Dennis Prager.
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, how are you doing? This is an important
Speaker 7: topic for me because I've been living this over the
Speaker 7: last two years, and when you call it, I like
Speaker 7: jumped on immediately because I thought it was important to
Speaker 7: give people in this situation the perspective that I.
Speaker 3: Have at least go ahead.
Speaker 7: My situation is my wife and I had been married
Speaker 7: for about twelve years. We got married very young. I
Speaker 7: was building my career, very busy. We had three children.
Speaker 7: With the Internet being what it is these days, it's
Speaker 7: easy to find somebody that will fulfill needs that may
Speaker 7: be not being necessarily met at home, and then it
Speaker 7: turns into something deeper, more physical, And that's kind of
Speaker 7: what happened in my situation with my wife. Long story short,
Speaker 7: she sort of ended the relationship but continued in it.
Speaker 7: We stayed married. My perspective was, I.
Speaker 3: She sort of ended the extramarital relationship.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and then finally she ended it, you know, after
Speaker 7: we went to counseling. I wanted to hold on for
Speaker 7: my boys, and I believe that she was a good
Speaker 7: person making bad decisions, you know, knowing her background, her
Speaker 7: issues from her childhood and those things. I viewed the
Speaker 7: function of this this affair as a function of mental illness.
Speaker 7: She made decisions based upon certain issues or you know,
Speaker 7: problems that she had that this relationship helped her fulfill.
Speaker 7: And we went to counseling. We worked it out for
Speaker 7: the most part. I mean, it's been two years since
Speaker 7: any there's been any contact. It's done with, but it's
Speaker 7: still there's still that always that you know, every once
Speaker 7: in a while, there's a little something or there's a
Speaker 7: there's a you go back and it takes so much
Speaker 7: time to get over this.
Speaker 3: But do you I'm curious well you do. You have
Speaker 3: been a man, and I salute you tremendously, as your
Speaker 3: kids will one day, if indeed they ever know about this.
Speaker 3: Does she act in a remorseful way? Has she shown remorse?
Speaker 7: And the farther the time gets away from it, the
Speaker 7: more remorseful she is. Okay, At first, it was kind
Speaker 7: of a defensive, Well, all, it's your fault because if
Speaker 7: you would have done this, and you would have done that.
Speaker 7: But as she as our time we've gotten away from
Speaker 7: the affair, that you know, it's more of she starts
Speaker 7: to realize that how hurtful it was and how destructive
Speaker 7: it was. But sometimes that natural defense kicks in it first,
Speaker 7: and so there's a different response than the person who's
Speaker 7: been cheated on really once.
Speaker 3: So right now, why would you have rated if you
Speaker 3: called my show prior to the affair to her affair
Speaker 3: and I asked you rate your marriage on a scale
Speaker 3: of one to ten, why would you have rated it
Speaker 3: prior year prior to the affair?
Speaker 7: You know, at a year prior to the affair, I
Speaker 7: thought things were so good I probably would have rated
Speaker 7: it in an eight. I mean, I really believe I
Speaker 7: get Okay, Okay.
Speaker 3: Hold on, hold on, in retrospect, what would you rate
Speaker 3: the marriage a year before the affair?
Speaker 7: I would say in retrospect it was probably a four,
Speaker 7: and that will be her perspective. What no women have
Speaker 7: a different perspective?
Speaker 3: Okay, given both perspectives, what do you so to speak?
Speaker 3: If it's not objective obviously, but but as objective as
Speaker 3: you can be. What would you rate the marriage? Knowing her,
Speaker 3: her reaction and your reaction.
Speaker 7: To it, I would say a four would be a
Speaker 7: fair right, so fuck okay?
Speaker 3: Now what would you rate your marriage?
Speaker 7: After counseling and a lot of soul searching and so
Speaker 7: much pain I can't explain it. I would probably rate
Speaker 7: it about a six.
Speaker 3: Now, so so, in effect your marriage is better today.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, there's more open communication. We can talk about our
Speaker 7: feelings if she needs something. I'm more open to trying
Speaker 7: to listen as opposed to stop being a needy person
Speaker 7: trying to do this job.
Speaker 3: Can you all right? I'll be very direct as well.
Speaker 3: Can you make love? Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah?
Speaker 7: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Okay, good, you'll be fine, my friend. I think it's
Speaker 3: a very powerful call. This is another thing, Alan, I'd
Speaker 3: like this for another subject. The more ironically the subject.
Speaker 3: The subject is affairs, but ironically there was something that
Speaker 3: came out here that is as important as that subject,
Speaker 3: if not more. Those who are in a marriage think
Speaker 3: it's an eight, but it's really a four. How does
Speaker 3: that happen? This is a very very important subject for
Speaker 3: another male female hour. I mean it sounds funny, but
Speaker 3: in effect, do you overrate how good your marriage is?
Speaker 3: By the way, just as fair do you underrate how
Speaker 3: good your marriage is? Your marriage may be a lot
Speaker 3: better than you think think it is. So it goes.
Speaker 3: It goes in both directions, and I would do both,
Speaker 3: by the way, if when we do the subject, I
Speaker 3: would do both one eight Praguer seven seven six. The
Speaker 3: phone number for the sixteen CDs is eight hundred two
Speaker 3: two five eighty five eighty four.
Speaker 1: We continue this episode of Timeless Wisdom. Will continue right
Speaker 1: after this. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdoms.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. I hope that
Speaker 3: these calls and folks, I can't. I don't determine who
Speaker 3: calls in obviously. I mean I determine which calls I take,
Speaker 3: but I don't do it with an agenda I just
Speaker 3: hope that those of you, and this is the Male
Speaker 3: Female Hour for those just tuning in every week at
Speaker 3: this time we discuss in the most adult way. Frankly,
Speaker 3: that's a good way to use it. Male female relations men,
Speaker 3: women and the affair within marriage is the subject today.
Speaker 3: My belief that it should never automatically and a marriage,
Speaker 3: and I don't downplay the devastation that it it entails.
Speaker 3: Leave me. Let's go to Louise in Mount Laurel, New Jersey,
Speaker 3: Louise High. Where's Mount Laurel, ah.
Speaker 6: Father in New Jersey, right across from Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Okay, great, thank you for calling.
Speaker 6: My pleasure. Shall I begin?
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 6: Okay, My husband had a a fair i'd say twenty
Speaker 6: five years ago. We've been together thirty.
Speaker 3: Years, so hold on. So are you about the same age.
Speaker 6: As my husband. Yeah, he's a little older.
Speaker 3: So he was about thirty and you were in your
Speaker 3: late twenties? Is that okay? Go ahead?
Speaker 6: Young children?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 6: And it was a work affair, and he was very
Speaker 6: much in love with this young girl, and you know, finally,
Speaker 6: you know, of course there were there were signs of
Speaker 6: it happening, and I confronted him and ah, I have
Speaker 6: to say, the most aggressive attack that I could have
Speaker 6: put on him was I told him that I could
Speaker 6: forgive him and that I loved him. And it it practically,
Speaker 6: I mean, he just broke down and.
Speaker 3: So like that was your that was your initial reaction.
Speaker 6: Yes, it was supernatural, believe me.
Speaker 3: But wow, that's that's quite that's quite something. It would
Speaker 3: have to melt the coolest heart.
Speaker 6: Like I said, it was the most aggressive attack that
Speaker 6: I could have put on by telling him that I
Speaker 6: loved him and could forgive him. And I wanted to
Speaker 6: say that. Indeed, it was very painful. I told a
Speaker 6: fellow before that I had just lost a brother three
Speaker 6: years prior, and it was actually the affair was actually
Speaker 6: more painful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, than I believe that. I do believe that.
Speaker 3: And also that was your marriage today.
Speaker 6: It's good. Yeah, it's not perfect, but we're committed. And
Speaker 6: as a result of that affair, I had another baby,
Speaker 6: a little boy, and he'll be twenty five and he's
Speaker 6: just been such a blessing to us.
Speaker 3: And now, what a very interesting thing. You would not
Speaker 3: have had another child were it not for the affair.
Speaker 6: Probably not. Wow, it was a result of it, a
Speaker 6: new beginning and like I said, I had I had
Speaker 6: three children and he was my fourth.
Speaker 3: And and he's turned out to be a great blessing.
Speaker 6: Oh oh my, yes indeed, but what a touching story.
Speaker 3: God bless you too. Well, that's another thing. We we
Speaker 3: had this author on. Thank you, Louise, you've really You've
Speaker 3: truly touched my heart. I had an author on. He's
Speaker 3: in northern California. I've had him on twice now. He's
Speaker 3: a therapist and he does marital therapy. What was the
Speaker 3: name of his book, A Good Enough Marriage. I think
Speaker 3: that that was very close to the name. He made
Speaker 3: a very compelling argument for uh us not to way
Speaker 3: marriage with with two much too much in the way
Speaker 3: of perfection, demands that you know, a marriage could be
Speaker 3: quite good enough without being great, whatever great would mean.
Speaker 3: And there are great marriages, I admit it, all right.
Speaker 3: The uh that was very touching. Her her reaction to
Speaker 3: him last thing he must have expected, huh, we've had
Speaker 3: a two year affair. Well, I just need to know.
Speaker 3: I love you, I just need you to how'd you
Speaker 3: do it? It was supernatural, but a touching and I
Speaker 3: know what she meant in both objectively and religiously we
Speaker 3: continue on the Male Female Hour. I'm Dennis Prager, Dennis Jenner, Dennis,
Speaker 3: Dennis Prager.
Speaker 1: Do you have a question you've always wanted to ask
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Speaker 1: with Dennis Prager. And thanks for listening and supporting Dennis Prager.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. The
Speaker 3: Therapist that I was citing was Joshua Coleman and his
Speaker 3: book was Imperfect Harmony. Why did I knew what it
Speaker 3: was about? Of course because I remember talking to him
Speaker 3: and enjoying him, Joshua Coleman, the therapist on these matters.
Speaker 3: What did I say? It was a good enough marriage?
Speaker 1: Ye?
Speaker 3: Am right? Which is not not the title. Of course,
Speaker 3: it's the subject, but it's not the title anyways, Imperfect Harmony.
Speaker 3: Dennis Prager Here, this is the Male Female Hour, and
Speaker 3: I'm talking to you about the terribly painful subject of
Speaker 3: where a husband or wife has an affair and the
Speaker 3: ability to survive it or inability. I am a big
Speaker 3: advocate of surviving it if at all possible, that it
Speaker 3: should not automatically end the marriage. I mean, obviously where
Speaker 3: you have a serial polygamist. That's a separate story. Or
Speaker 3: and by the way, there is something I didn't mention,
Speaker 3: and I will mention, you know, my deepest belief in
Speaker 3: the in the levels of that there are levels of sin.
Speaker 3: I have spoken about this both theologically and just morally.
Speaker 3: The notion of sin is a sin is a sin
Speaker 3: makes no sense to me. I fully admit it, you know.
Speaker 3: Taking some toothpicks extra toothpicks with you from the restaurant,
Speaker 3: which you don't need. Just is theoretically wrong or wrong,
Speaker 3: But it's not quite the same as murder. I mean,
Speaker 3: just the notion of sin is a sin. There are
Speaker 3: levels of sinfulness, even if you're an atheist. I'm not
Speaker 3: just I'm not talking religiously here. I'm using sin in
Speaker 3: a secular sense as well as a religious sense. In
Speaker 3: an infidelity, for example, I'll tell you what is unforgivable
Speaker 3: or very close. Okay, I don't want to say unforgivable
Speaker 3: because as somebody can repent. But what is far worse
Speaker 3: even than an affair, is the humiliation of a spouse.
Speaker 3: See this is I want. I want to devote another
Speaker 3: male female hour to this notion. See. People think that
Speaker 3: an affair should lead to automatic Some people do to
Speaker 3: the automatic end of a marriage. I don't, uh. And
Speaker 3: but it's funny because people would not say that about
Speaker 3: anything else. They would say it obviously wife beating, all right,
Speaker 3: I agree with that, uh. But aside from wife beating
Speaker 3: or husband beating, if you will, and an infidelity, nobody says, oh,
Speaker 3: that's automatic. But I'll tell you. I'll tell you something.
Speaker 3: I think that is worse than an affair. Public humiliation
Speaker 3: of your spouse. Okay, you may be sexually faithful to
Speaker 3: your wife or your husband, but if you humiliate them
Speaker 3: in front of other people on a regular basis, I, frankly,
Speaker 3: I think that's worse. Now, now you know, I'm sure
Speaker 3: many differ, and that's you're certainly you're right, but you
Speaker 3: know that that to me is worse. And the combination
Speaker 3: is the worst. Where you publicly flaunt your mistress for example,
Speaker 3: I mean that's that's when you have reached a level
Speaker 3: of very close to this auto automatically ended. Okay, let's
Speaker 3: go to Denver, Colorado and Alan. Hello, Alan, Dennis Prager.
Speaker 5: Oh, Dennis, a longtime listener, first time caller. We've met
Speaker 5: several occasions and normally I agree with you ninety nine
Speaker 5: percent of the time, but on this one, I gotta
Speaker 5: I gotta take a little issue.
Speaker 3: Well, this is the one percent, right, Okay.
Speaker 5: When an affair occurage, it shows a violation of a
Speaker 5: commitment that as a call before said how he was
Speaker 5: blamed for his wife's affair. To me, it shows a
Speaker 5: narcissistic personality. Life is difficult as the years go by
Speaker 5: and other stresses. Situations come up a person who's demonstrated
Speaker 5: that they can structure their own rationale to justify their behavior.
Speaker 5: If the situation is right down the road, they will
Speaker 5: do it again. It's sort of like a soldier. You
Speaker 5: can count on the person on your flank to guard
Speaker 5: your flank. Once they don't do that, and they leave
Speaker 5: you open to fire if the going gets rough. They've
Speaker 5: shown the potential that they can do that again. You
Speaker 5: can recover from that if you want to drop your expectations.
Speaker 5: I mean, I come from a background similar to yours
Speaker 5: that marriage should be something special in life long once
Speaker 5: the partner shows that they're able to go for themselves,
Speaker 5: so to speak, and to heck with their family, to
Speaker 5: heck with their spouse, and an affair involves humiliation. Given
Speaker 5: the right circumstances, you look at them and the reality
Speaker 5: is all right.
Speaker 3: When push comes to shof you think it should automatically
Speaker 3: end the marriage.
Speaker 5: Barring extraordinary explanation or circumstances. The trust is gone, and
Speaker 5: that's when marriage is all about it.
Speaker 3: Are you a religious man, Yes?
Speaker 5: I am from your background from the metropolitan Jewish high
Speaker 5: school league. Oh no, kidding, Yes, from Ramas.
Speaker 3: Oh blows my mind.
Speaker 5: And you know conservadox, I think, all right, all.
Speaker 3: Right, so well, well, well then it's interesting because Judaism
Speaker 3: certainly doesn't say that that automatically leads to divorce.
Speaker 5: Not automatically. But the was of the sotah as. I'm
Speaker 5: sure you're familiar, you know. No, No, that's aces the male.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a separate issue, but there is, there is.
Speaker 3: I don't know of a rabbi with his head screwed
Speaker 3: on right, orthodox conservative or reform who would say, oh,
Speaker 3: you guys are married fifteen years, thirty years, and she
Speaker 3: or he had an affair. Okay, let's arrange the get
Speaker 3: let's arrange the divorce.
Speaker 5: Not absolutely. My situation was married in a fear early
Speaker 5: in the marriage, written off to youth, whatever you want
Speaker 5: to call it, and twenty nine years later she drank
Speaker 5: the kool aid again and the marriage was over in
Speaker 5: fifteen minus.
Speaker 3: Okay. So now I was curious where you were speaking from,
Speaker 3: which I totally understand. It's great to hear from you, Alan,
Speaker 3: that's not great to hear what you said. It's great
Speaker 3: to hear from you, I see, Okay. I would say
Speaker 3: that for every Alan's experience that twenty nine years later
Speaker 3: the wife did it again or the husband did it again.
Speaker 3: There are equal number of experiences where someone didn't do
Speaker 3: it again. And so that's look, everything is a risk.
Speaker 3: It's a risk if someone didn't do it, and there
Speaker 3: are many ways. You see. There's another thing, which is
Speaker 3: why this is such a big subject. There are many
Speaker 3: ways to be unfaithful or to wreck a marriage. Obviously,
Speaker 3: and again, I you know, if somebody offered a typical person,
Speaker 3: would you like your husband or wife to have a
Speaker 3: you know, a brief affair and otherwise you know, and
Speaker 3: stop it and otherwise treat you beautifully or somebody continue
Speaker 3: after the one time affair. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 3: This is the Male Female hour on the Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, Dennis Prager here. By the way, I must
Speaker 3: remember to bring into the show an email from a
Speaker 3: man had a terribly frustrating, sexually frustrating marriage gave his
Speaker 3: wife without comment. Just would you read Dennis Prager's to
Speaker 3: two pieces two columns on when a when a woman
Speaker 3: not in the mood, not in the mood, and he
Speaker 3: said it turned their lives around. I'll read it, obviously
Speaker 3: it'll be anonymous, but i'll read it to you next
Speaker 3: male Female Hour. That's why I do these things, And
Speaker 3: boy do I stick my neck out on those things.
Speaker 3: I mean the attacks on me on the internet. I mean,
Speaker 3: including you may have heard. I had people on the
Speaker 3: show whose blogs and big left wing blogs would say
Speaker 3: that I advocated marital rape because I thought that a
Speaker 3: woman shouldn't rely just on mode on mood to make
Speaker 3: love to her husband if he's a good man, which
Speaker 3: I kept stressing as only applies to if you're married
Speaker 3: to a good man. Anyway, the last these calls, I
Speaker 3: hope are also are also helpful to you. Let me
Speaker 3: don't hang up anybody. Let me summarize as many as
Speaker 3: I can. Diana in Tampa. When I was twenty, she's
Speaker 3: now forty four. My husband had an affair. It took
Speaker 3: six years until my husband and realized what he had done,
Speaker 3: but we made it through now twenty five years. God
Speaker 3: bless you both, and certainly you Diana. Anita in Fort Wachuca, Arizona.
Speaker 3: My husband military was injured and had to stay home
Speaker 3: more often. We cherished each other less afterwards, and he
Speaker 3: had an affair. We divorced and then remarried. Everybody has
Speaker 3: a story. Everybody has a story. God, what I like
Speaker 3: to hear that one. Anita Roger sixty two, West Hills, California,
Speaker 3: married forty two years. At ten years into marriage, we
Speaker 3: both admitted affairs. I told her to bring him over
Speaker 3: to say I'm done, but she told him she was
Speaker 3: done with him and they're still married now forty two years.
Speaker 3: To those of you who automatically, this is what I
Speaker 3: didn't get a chance. I mean, the lines filled so quickly,
Speaker 3: I want, we're going to do this once. If you
Speaker 3: did break up automatically, are you happy you did? Okay?
Speaker 3: That's and you can write me as well. Of course.
Speaker 3: I love reading your emails. Steven Phoenix. Marriages can thrive
Speaker 3: even after infidelity. I went through multiple affairs, but through
Speaker 3: religious counseling were thriving. Stephen Lakeland, Florida. We made it
Speaker 3: through adultery. I lost my wife to someone who was
Speaker 3: smiling at work all the time. I had to look
Speaker 3: at myself and improve myself first. God, bless you because
Speaker 3: you know, unless you're married to a real jerk, there
Speaker 3: often is a reason, partial reason that you're responsible too
Speaker 3: for somebody doing that.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prigger.
Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, I'll go to the Dennis Prager Show. The
Speaker 3: music might be actually familiar to a fair number of
Speaker 3: you in the southern California area because one of the
Speaker 3: most successful talk show hosts in America now a podcaster,
Speaker 3: and one of the most successful podcasters in America, was
Speaker 3: Larry l And I know it's very touching for me
Speaker 3: to have Larry on my show because I brought him
Speaker 3: to radio and he became a national sensation, and not
Speaker 3: only in broadcasting and podcasting, but also in writing. If
Speaker 3: you read his column each week, you will get an education.
Speaker 3: And I say this obviously people know, with total sincerity.
Speaker 3: And he and I used to work on a same
Speaker 3: station many many years ago in Los Angeles. Maybe many
Speaker 3: of you know Larry Elder. Larry Elder, what if they
Speaker 3: call that called full disclosure, full disclosure. I am a friend,
Speaker 3: good friend of Larry Elder, and we have been for
Speaker 3: many years. We were radio colleagues on the same station
Speaker 3: in LA for many years. Then I moved over to
Speaker 3: the Salem Radio Network and things have been wonderful and
Speaker 3: a blessing since Larry's show was one of the most
Speaker 3: popular in Southern California, a very difficult place to have
Speaker 3: a popular show because people live in their cars in
Speaker 3: southern California and it's the it's really the center of
Speaker 3: talk radio and just a household name Larry and I.
Speaker 3: When we go back to what.
Speaker 4: Year, I would say we probably go back, Dennis, to
Speaker 4: around nineteen ninety, around nineteen ninety ninete when I first
Speaker 4: met you, when you were in Cleveland.
Speaker 3: I picked you up from the airport. You might read now,
Speaker 3: but we met before that, right, But even before that
Speaker 3: on approach, that's right, that's right, I was shitty.
Speaker 4: And who's being interrupted?
Speaker 3: Now? I'm just asking. I'm just asking, you know, I know,
Speaker 3: well it's just a question. Yeah, but you're offended. I wasn't.
Speaker 3: That's different. I am not easily offended.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a thin skinned black guy who's easily offended.
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4: You mean, I'm being racially profiled on the Dennis Brager Show.
Speaker 4: I am shocked and I am appalled.
Speaker 3: You see, that's the thing. The man plays the race
Speaker 3: card like that. It doesn't even you could be.
Speaker 4: Don't leave home, Dennis, Don't leave home without it. Honestly,
Speaker 4: I never leave home without it. I get my license,
Speaker 4: I get my race card, social Security card, and I'm
Speaker 4: out the door.
Speaker 1: Join a store to hear me more on Timeless Wisdom
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