1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Life Audio. People treat divorce as though it's the back door. 2 00:00:07,340 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: If this thing doesn't work out, well, just divorce. Divorce 3 00:00:10,539 --> 00:00:14,140 Speaker 1: should never be the first option. Divorce happens. I understand that. 4 00:00:14,260 --> 00:00:18,420 Speaker 1: Good people get divorced. I understand that. Why does divorce exist? 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,340 Speaker 1: And we'll even look at times the Bible allows for divorce. 6 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:24,689 Speaker 1: And this is really, I think, the conversation that people 7 00:00:24,710 --> 00:00:30,010 Speaker 1: want to get to. Fornication, abandonment, abuse. Listen, the Bible 8 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: tells us to get out of those relationships. Hello and 9 00:00:33,860 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: welcome to the March or Die show today. Glad to 10 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: have you joining along. This is the show where we 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,940 Speaker 1: do our best every single episode to give you the 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,540 Speaker 1: principles and perspectives you need to march when it would 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,190 Speaker 1: be easier to stay where you are and die. My 14 00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:51,989 Speaker 1: name is Jeremy Stalnicker. I am your host. Every once 15 00:00:52,010 --> 00:00:55,770 Speaker 1: in a while, though, I get asked about a specific 16 00:00:55,810 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: topic and a very narrow topic. And often I'll have 17 00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: those conversations. I'll answer those questions offline, not publicly or 18 00:01:05,060 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: on a podcast. But this is a question that I 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,970 Speaker 1: get asked an awful lot. And through the work that 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,510 Speaker 1: we do at Mighty Oaks, working with veterans and service 21 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:20,190 Speaker 1: members and first responders, so much of the work that 22 00:01:20,230 --> 00:01:22,190 Speaker 1: we really do, we talk about trauma and all of 23 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:26,170 Speaker 1: those things. But really a lot of what we do 24 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:29,830 Speaker 1: is address the difficulties and the challenges on the other 25 00:01:29,870 --> 00:01:34,090 Speaker 1: side of trauma. Events happen in our lives and we're 26 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: going to make decisions on the other side of those events. 27 00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:39,620 Speaker 1: Some of those decisions will be good. Some will be bad. 28 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: Some will be helpful. Some will not. Some will be 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,650 Speaker 1: beneficial to our families and others will not. And one 30 00:01:47,670 --> 00:01:51,310 Speaker 1: of the questions that I get asked very often in 31 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:55,710 Speaker 1: the context of our program is, and get asked just 32 00:01:55,730 --> 00:01:57,430 Speaker 1: at other times because of the work that we do 33 00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:59,530 Speaker 1: and the things that I'm involved in, is on the 34 00:01:59,580 --> 00:02:06,340 Speaker 1: question of divorce. And man, this is a big topic, obviously. 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,020 Speaker 1: This is a big topic in our society and in 36 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: our culture. But I think this is a big topic 37 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,850 Speaker 1: even within Christianity and within churches, I think, Some churches 38 00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:22,210 Speaker 1: handle this really well and very biblically and others not 39 00:02:22,270 --> 00:02:25,230 Speaker 1: as well and maybe not as biblically. There are a 40 00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:28,660 Speaker 1: lot of opinions about divorce from a biblical perspective. What 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: does the Bible say about divorce and how do we 42 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:36,339 Speaker 1: address these issues? A lot of opinion. Some opinions are good. 43 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: Some opinions not so good. Some opinions are very biblically based. 44 00:02:40,810 --> 00:02:43,810 Speaker 1: They're grounded in scripture. Some not so much. And it 45 00:02:43,850 --> 00:02:48,060 Speaker 1: can be all over the spectrum. When one begins talking 46 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: about divorce, as I'm doing today, there's also an understanding 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: that every single person listening to this conversation has a 48 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,220 Speaker 1: perspective on the topic because of their own lived experience. 49 00:03:02,830 --> 00:03:05,830 Speaker 1: And I'll say this as kind of a disclaimer on 50 00:03:05,850 --> 00:03:07,850 Speaker 1: the front end. You got to put the disclaimer on 51 00:03:07,870 --> 00:03:11,990 Speaker 1: the front end. This is a big topic and it's 52 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:14,270 Speaker 1: a topic that I am not going to fully address 53 00:03:14,450 --> 00:03:18,490 Speaker 1: or fully discuss. breakdown for you or for me or 54 00:03:18,530 --> 00:03:21,570 Speaker 1: for anyone in the next few minutes that we have. 55 00:03:21,910 --> 00:03:25,050 Speaker 1: All right. And so this is a starting point. These 56 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:28,090 Speaker 1: are some thoughts that I want to share with you 57 00:03:28,130 --> 00:03:30,490 Speaker 1: that can at least get you thinking. Maybe you have 58 00:03:30,530 --> 00:03:32,550 Speaker 1: questions on the other side of these. I'd love to 59 00:03:32,610 --> 00:03:35,420 Speaker 1: hear those. And you can certainly leave comments and we 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,700 Speaker 1: can talk about some of these things. Again, this is 61 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: a huge conversation and every situation is very, very different. 62 00:03:44,420 --> 00:03:47,700 Speaker 1: So We'll start with this. What does the Bible actually 63 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:49,500 Speaker 1: say about divorce? We're going to get into that in 64 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: a minute. The Bible does have some things to say 65 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:54,980 Speaker 1: about divorce. So I've got a list of questions. Again, 66 00:03:55,020 --> 00:03:57,780 Speaker 1: we've kind of been collecting these questions that I get asked. 67 00:03:57,820 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: So what does the Bible actually say about divorce? We'll 68 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,300 Speaker 1: talk about that. Why is divorce so misunderstood within Christianity? 69 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: And man, that is a great question. Why is divorce 70 00:04:10,660 --> 00:04:15,980 Speaker 1: so misunderstood within Christianity? Your experience will always inform how 71 00:04:16,020 --> 00:04:20,380 Speaker 1: you view something. That's how we're made. But we have 72 00:04:20,420 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: to be very, very careful not to allow our own 73 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:29,460 Speaker 1: lived experience to be the end all and be all 74 00:04:29,660 --> 00:04:32,660 Speaker 1: in how we view whatever topic it is that we're 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: dealing with. When we're dealing with a topic like divorce, 76 00:04:37,540 --> 00:04:39,730 Speaker 1: or we're dealing with a lot of these other topics 77 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:45,030 Speaker 1: that are culturally different, conversations right now. We have an 78 00:04:45,089 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: experience with the situations, but it needs to be the 79 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: Bible that informs how we actually think about them. What 80 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: does God say is far more important than how do 81 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,779 Speaker 1: I feel? And that has to be the starting point. 82 00:05:01,660 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: What does God say has to be far more important 83 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:10,860 Speaker 1: than how do I feel? Particularly when we're talking about 84 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:18,010 Speaker 1: something like this. divorce is so personal and so damaging 85 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: to the two individuals involved and the families that extend 86 00:05:22,580 --> 00:05:28,550 Speaker 1: from those two individuals, that experience can say so much 87 00:05:28,670 --> 00:05:31,530 Speaker 1: to us. And we have to be able to get 88 00:05:31,589 --> 00:05:34,990 Speaker 1: back and ask the question, what does God say about this? 89 00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:38,260 Speaker 1: And that's why I have given us so many verses 90 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: today that we're going to walk through. What does scripture 91 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: say that modern culture gets wrong? I think the biggest 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,330 Speaker 1: thing when I look at that is, what does scripture 93 00:05:47,370 --> 00:05:50,110 Speaker 1: say about divorce that modern culture gets wrong? I'm going 94 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:53,350 Speaker 1: to start by talking about God's design for marriage. I 95 00:05:53,370 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: think that's what culture typically gets wrong. Culture typically, traditionally, 96 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: looks at marriage as a contract between two people. If 97 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,140 Speaker 1: you hold up your end, I'll hold up my end. 98 00:06:05,589 --> 00:06:07,130 Speaker 1: If you do what you say you're going to do, 99 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:11,330 Speaker 1: then I'll stick around. It's a contract. It's like a 100 00:06:11,370 --> 00:06:16,750 Speaker 1: business agreement. Whereas the Bible talks about marriage, not in 101 00:06:16,790 --> 00:06:19,810 Speaker 1: terms of contract, but in terms of covenant. That's why 102 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:22,860 Speaker 1: we say, until death do us part. It is a 103 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,700 Speaker 1: lifelong commitment. It's a commitment that requires sacrifice. And it's 104 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,860 Speaker 1: a commitment that is made. Now, it doesn't always work 105 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: out this way, but it is made until death. death 106 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,570 Speaker 1: do us part. It is a commitment that says, I 107 00:06:39,630 --> 00:06:42,690 Speaker 1: will do what I'm supposed to do, and I will 108 00:06:42,730 --> 00:06:46,810 Speaker 1: remain committed to this relationship. A contract says, as long 109 00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:49,150 Speaker 1: as you do what you're supposed to do, I'll remain committed. 110 00:06:49,750 --> 00:06:52,510 Speaker 1: A covenant says, I will do what I have been 111 00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:56,740 Speaker 1: called to do, and regardless of what else happens, will 112 00:06:56,770 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: remain committed. We have to go back to the beginning. 113 00:07:01,390 --> 00:07:04,930 Speaker 1: We have to understand divorce in the context of God's design. 114 00:07:04,970 --> 00:07:09,190 Speaker 1: What did God design marriage to look like? Genesis 2, 115 00:07:09,190 --> 00:07:13,450 Speaker 1: verse 23. Adam and Eve have been created. You're familiar 116 00:07:13,490 --> 00:07:15,910 Speaker 1: with the story. And Adam said, this is now bone 117 00:07:15,930 --> 00:07:19,210 Speaker 1: of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall 118 00:07:19,250 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: be called woman because she was taken out of man. 119 00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:24,580 Speaker 1: Verse 24. Therefore shall a man leave his father and 120 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:28,610 Speaker 1: his mother and shall cleave unto his wife And they 121 00:07:28,690 --> 00:07:32,660 Speaker 1: shall be one flesh. The Bible says this, the Pharisees 122 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,260 Speaker 1: came unto him. Came unto who? Jesus. Tempting him. Now 123 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:41,750 Speaker 1: the Pharisees, these are the religious leaders of the day. 124 00:07:41,810 --> 00:07:45,110 Speaker 1: These are Jews who hate Jesus because he says he's 125 00:07:45,130 --> 00:07:48,050 Speaker 1: the Messiah. They're always trying to catch him in something. 126 00:07:48,430 --> 00:07:51,310 Speaker 1: This is Jesus speaking. Have you not read that he 127 00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:53,690 Speaker 1: which made them at the beginning made them male and 128 00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:55,860 Speaker 1: female and said, for this cause shall a man leave 129 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,420 Speaker 1: father and mother and cleave to his wife and they twain, 130 00:07:59,460 --> 00:08:02,900 Speaker 1: they too shall be one flesh. Verse six, wherefore, they 131 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: are no more twain but one flesh. What therefore God 132 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,460 Speaker 1: has joined together, let no man put asunder. Now, the 133 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: next couple of verses, Jesus does address divorce. What God 134 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,300 Speaker 1: has joined together, let not man divide asunder. Why? Because 135 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,710 Speaker 1: they are now not Two, not twain, but one flesh. 136 00:08:20,950 --> 00:08:26,230 Speaker 1: They're one person. This was the design. This was the purpose. 137 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:29,620 Speaker 1: And so I think it's safe for us to say 138 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:38,819 Speaker 1: that divorce, what the Pharisees called putting away, separating that relationship, 139 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:43,220 Speaker 1: breaking that relationship, was never part of the original design. 140 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,830 Speaker 1: God's design... was that when a man and woman came 141 00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:54,010 Speaker 1: together in marriage, it was a forever relationship. Now again, 142 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:57,570 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about divorce. Jesus talks about divorce 143 00:08:57,650 --> 00:09:00,849 Speaker 1: on the other side of that. But what was the design? 144 00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:05,250 Speaker 1: It was supposed to be forever. Now why is this important? 145 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: I'm going to look at another passage here in just 146 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,020 Speaker 1: a second. But why is this important for us to 147 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,620 Speaker 1: start here? Because we live at a moment in culture where, 148 00:09:14,809 --> 00:09:19,190 Speaker 1: where divorce is taken very, very lightly. Listen, people have 149 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:25,980 Speaker 1: divorce parties. People treat divorce as though it's the back door. 150 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:30,060 Speaker 1: If this thing doesn't work out, we'll just divorce. Divorce 151 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: is not viewed as anything more than maybe a boyfriend 152 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: and girlfriend deciding they don't want to be together anymore. 153 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,220 Speaker 1: They're separating. There's some legal stuff involved, but it's not 154 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,380 Speaker 1: much more than that. Divorce is not seen... the way 155 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: God sees it in our culture and society. And unfortunately, 156 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:53,810 Speaker 1: even in the Christian world, divorce is not often seen 157 00:09:54,030 --> 00:10:03,610 Speaker 1: as definitive and forever and important. as God sees it. Therefore, 158 00:10:03,929 --> 00:10:08,359 Speaker 1: divorce should never be the first option. Divorce should never 159 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,340 Speaker 1: be the starting point. We should do everything that we can. 160 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: We'll talk about this as we work through this. We 161 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:20,130 Speaker 1: should do everything that we can before... going down the 162 00:10:20,170 --> 00:10:26,140 Speaker 1: road of divorce. Why? Because God's design for marriage was 163 00:10:26,179 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: that it would be forever. But beyond that, God's design 164 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,780 Speaker 1: for marriage is that it would be a picture of 165 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:43,010 Speaker 1: his relationship to his bride, the church. Christian people are 166 00:10:43,050 --> 00:10:47,110 Speaker 1: called the bride of Christ. So we see this picture, 167 00:10:47,130 --> 00:10:50,830 Speaker 1: this image, of Jesus as the bridegroom or the husband, 168 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: and the church that has saved people, Christian people, as 169 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:59,140 Speaker 1: the bride. And the marriage relationship, husband and wife, are 170 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be an earthly representation or example of Christ's 171 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: relationship to the church. Very important. If that was God's design, 172 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:14,270 Speaker 1: that the husband and wife, the marriage relationship on earth, 173 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:18,530 Speaker 1: would be a picture of his relationship to saved people, 174 00:11:20,410 --> 00:11:23,970 Speaker 1: then we need to at least take that relationship very, 175 00:11:24,010 --> 00:11:27,969 Speaker 1: very seriously. And we also need to understand that it 176 00:11:28,050 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: represents God's love, God's kindness, God's goodness, God's care for 177 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:43,570 Speaker 1: us as believers. And so to dissolve that relationship in 178 00:11:43,650 --> 00:11:48,380 Speaker 1: no way reflects Christ's desire and relationship with his bride, 179 00:11:48,420 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: the church. I think one of the reasons, and hear 180 00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: me on this, I think one of the reasons that 181 00:11:56,710 --> 00:12:00,210 Speaker 1: the devil is so interested in breaking up marriage relationships, 182 00:12:01,490 --> 00:12:07,070 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of them, culture, children, there 183 00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:08,770 Speaker 1: are a lot of reasons, I think, that the devil 184 00:12:08,809 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: hates marriage. But I think one of the big reasons 185 00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: the devil hates marriage is because it is a An earthly, 186 00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:21,940 Speaker 1: physical representation of Christ's relationship with Christians. Where do we 187 00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: find that? Again, a passage in Ephesians 5, verse 21. 188 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,510 Speaker 1: This is a long passage. It speaks about marriage. Beginning 189 00:12:31,530 --> 00:12:33,550 Speaker 1: in verse number 21. I'm going to read these verses 190 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:36,450 Speaker 1: because they're important in context. Starts by talking about marriage. 191 00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:39,630 Speaker 1: Ends by talking about the church. Submitting yourselves one to 192 00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto 193 00:12:42,260 --> 00:12:44,740 Speaker 1: your own husbands as unto the Lord. For the husband 194 00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: is the head of the wife, even as Christ is 195 00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:49,620 Speaker 1: the head of the church, and he is the Savior 196 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: of the body. Verse 24. Therefore, as the church is 197 00:12:53,059 --> 00:12:55,540 Speaker 1: subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their 198 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: own husbands and everything. Again, the comparison. It's a picture. 199 00:12:59,580 --> 00:13:03,100 Speaker 1: Verse 25. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also 200 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,020 Speaker 1: loved the church and gave himself for it. Husbands, treat 201 00:13:07,059 --> 00:13:10,420 Speaker 1: your wife the way Christ treats his bride, the church. 202 00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: The comparison, verse 26. That he might sanctify and cleanse 203 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,810 Speaker 1: it with the washing of water by the word, that 204 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:20,870 Speaker 1: he might present it to himself a glorious church, not 205 00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:23,270 Speaker 1: having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that 206 00:13:23,290 --> 00:13:25,670 Speaker 1: it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men 207 00:13:25,710 --> 00:13:27,890 Speaker 1: to love their wives as their own bodies. He that 208 00:13:27,929 --> 00:13:31,590 Speaker 1: loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet 209 00:13:31,730 --> 00:13:35,150 Speaker 1: hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even 210 00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:37,730 Speaker 1: as the Lord the church. For we are members of 211 00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:40,310 Speaker 1: his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For 212 00:13:40,350 --> 00:13:42,390 Speaker 1: this cause shall a man leave his father and mother 213 00:13:42,450 --> 00:13:44,290 Speaker 1: and shall be joined unto his wife, and they too 214 00:13:44,330 --> 00:13:48,370 Speaker 1: shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery. But 215 00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:52,140 Speaker 1: I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless, let every 216 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: one of you in particular so love his wife, even 217 00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:57,500 Speaker 1: as himself, and the wife see that she reverence her husband. 218 00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:02,780 Speaker 1: You see this interchange. where Paul the apostle is talking 219 00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: about marriage. He's telling married couples how they should treat 220 00:14:05,660 --> 00:14:08,900 Speaker 1: each other and the relationship that they should have. But 221 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,209 Speaker 1: he's combining with that. He's intertwining in their Christ relationship 222 00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:18,910 Speaker 1: with the church. It's all about Jesus. God's design for 223 00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:24,030 Speaker 1: marriage was that it would be permanent, that it would 224 00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:26,150 Speaker 1: produce fruit. We could talk about that. I'm not going 225 00:14:26,170 --> 00:14:27,780 Speaker 1: to go down that road today, but that it would 226 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,340 Speaker 1: produce fruit, children. that it would be good for society, 227 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: that it would be good for culture, all of those things, 228 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: but that it would represent his love for the church. 229 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,380 Speaker 1: That's his design. And listen, any conversation about divorce needs 230 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,590 Speaker 1: to start by elevating marriage. Divorce happens. I understand that. 231 00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:54,410 Speaker 1: Good people get divorced. I understand that. I get all 232 00:14:54,430 --> 00:14:58,460 Speaker 1: of that. But we need to be careful not to 233 00:14:58,910 --> 00:15:01,540 Speaker 1: view marriage flippantly or as something that can simply be 234 00:15:01,660 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: exited if we don't like it or it doesn't work 235 00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: or it's not working for us or some season or 236 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:12,540 Speaker 1: situation in our life has changed. God's design. And that 237 00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:18,380 Speaker 1: takes us to then why does divorce exist? And we'll 238 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: even look at the times here. that the Bible allows 239 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: for divorce. And this is really, I think the conversation 240 00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:30,100 Speaker 1: that people want to get to, right? Why does divorce 241 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:33,710 Speaker 1: even exist? So if that wasn't God's plan, if that 242 00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: wasn't part of what God designed, then why does it exist? 243 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,730 Speaker 1: And what are the reasons that the Bible says divorce 244 00:15:40,950 --> 00:15:44,230 Speaker 1: is acceptable? Pharisees also came to him, tempting him and 245 00:15:44,270 --> 00:15:46,410 Speaker 1: saying unto him, is it lawful for a man to 246 00:15:46,450 --> 00:15:49,010 Speaker 1: put away his wife for every cause? And he answered 247 00:15:49,050 --> 00:15:51,910 Speaker 1: and said unto them, have you not read? that he 248 00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:55,190 Speaker 1: which made them at the beginning made them male and female. 249 00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:57,690 Speaker 1: And he said, For this cause shall a man leave 250 00:15:57,770 --> 00:16:00,690 Speaker 1: father and mother, cleave unto his wife, and they twain 251 00:16:00,730 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: shall be one flesh. Wherefore, they are no more twain, 252 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: but one flesh. Therefore, God hath joined together. Let not 253 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: man put asunder. So Jesus has asked this question. They're 254 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: trying to catch him. He's asked this question, and he says, 255 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,390 Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. What was the plan? 256 00:16:16,830 --> 00:16:21,090 Speaker 1: What was God's intent? Okay, verse 7. Okay, so he says, 257 00:16:21,460 --> 00:16:25,110 Speaker 1: That wasn't the plan. They respond with this. They say 258 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,390 Speaker 1: unto him, this is Matthew chapter 19, verse 7. Why 259 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:32,610 Speaker 1: did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement 260 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:35,870 Speaker 1: and to put her away? Okay, so again, you see 261 00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:39,860 Speaker 1: this interchange. So put her away, a writing of divorcement. 262 00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:46,740 Speaker 1: For our cause, for what we're talking about today, they're 263 00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:51,020 Speaker 1: asking Jesus. All right, if that wasn't the plan, Jesus, 264 00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:54,300 Speaker 1: If that's not what God wanted, then why did Moses 265 00:16:54,490 --> 00:17:01,570 Speaker 1: in the law put a clause for divorce? Verse 8, 266 00:17:01,570 --> 00:17:05,730 Speaker 1: He saith unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of 267 00:17:05,770 --> 00:17:09,030 Speaker 1: your hearts, suffered you to put away your wives, but 268 00:17:09,050 --> 00:17:11,490 Speaker 1: from the beginning it was not so. And I say 269 00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:14,190 Speaker 1: unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it 270 00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:18,770 Speaker 1: be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery, and 271 00:17:18,810 --> 00:17:22,780 Speaker 1: whoso marrieth her which is put away, doth commit adultery. Now, 272 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: Jesus says a whole bunch of stuff here. He even 273 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:28,510 Speaker 1: talks about remarriage and those kind of things. But what 274 00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:31,550 Speaker 1: does he say? He said that wasn't the plan. They 275 00:17:31,570 --> 00:17:32,810 Speaker 1: came back to him and said, all right, well, then 276 00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:39,169 Speaker 1: why did Moses say it was permissible in some cases 277 00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:45,889 Speaker 1: or some situations? That man's heart becomes hard often in 278 00:17:45,910 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: the face of his own sin, in the face of 279 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: those things that he doesn't want to repent from, he's 280 00:17:51,660 --> 00:17:57,250 Speaker 1: not going to get himself right before God, and also 281 00:17:58,330 --> 00:18:00,810 Speaker 1: in the face of the sin of others, because of 282 00:18:00,830 --> 00:18:05,290 Speaker 1: the hardness of your hearts. Because God understands that although 283 00:18:05,310 --> 00:18:09,300 Speaker 1: the ideal is working through this together, getting help, allowing 284 00:18:09,340 --> 00:18:11,780 Speaker 1: God to put it back together and to rebuild, God 285 00:18:11,859 --> 00:18:18,050 Speaker 1: understands that humans, because of a sin nature, have often 286 00:18:18,109 --> 00:18:22,649 Speaker 1: hard hearts, and don't have the ability to submit to God, 287 00:18:22,930 --> 00:18:26,540 Speaker 1: to his leadership, to his word, to bring others in, 288 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,379 Speaker 1: and to reconcile what is wrong. Now, the hardness of 289 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: your hearts. I don't say any of that to say 290 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:38,699 Speaker 1: it's real simple. Just figure it out and get right 291 00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:44,870 Speaker 1: with God. But then he says that there's a reason 292 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:50,850 Speaker 1: Jesus gives one. We'll look at what the Apostle Paul 293 00:18:50,869 --> 00:18:53,389 Speaker 1: said in 1 Corinthians 7. And then we're going to 294 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:56,369 Speaker 1: talk about abuse and some other things. But Jesus gives one. 295 00:18:57,530 --> 00:19:03,909 Speaker 1: The one reason is sexual immorality. Now, the words that 296 00:19:03,950 --> 00:19:08,310 Speaker 1: are used here as Jesus talks about this, the word 297 00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:10,429 Speaker 1: in the King James that I'm reading from uses the 298 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: word adultery. It talks about fornication. This is sexual impurity. 299 00:19:15,619 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: This is a kind of a big... classification of sexual 300 00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:24,770 Speaker 1: sins committed against the person you're married to. And that's 301 00:19:24,810 --> 00:19:29,150 Speaker 1: the reason Jesus gives for divorce. Divorce is not acceptable, 302 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:33,090 Speaker 1: as Jesus talks about this, except in the case of fornication, adultery, 303 00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:39,690 Speaker 1: sexual impurity. And again, that's a bigger maybe umbrella than 304 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: simply adultery. He says, except it be for fornication. And 305 00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:49,930 Speaker 1: then he talks about these other things. Fornication, sexual impurity, right? 306 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,900 Speaker 1: So Jesus says, look, this wasn't the plan, but because 307 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,780 Speaker 1: of the hardness of your hearts, when sin comes into 308 00:19:56,820 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: a marriage, it's often because of hard hearts, because of 309 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: a lack of willingness to let God work on one 310 00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:10,170 Speaker 1: side or the other. That divorce is sometimes. And Jesus 311 00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:13,649 Speaker 1: gives a very narrow time in the case of fornication, 312 00:20:14,109 --> 00:20:23,300 Speaker 1: sometimes permitted. And then this is super important. And it's 313 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: important for us to look at this and understand that 314 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,570 Speaker 1: God knows who we are. God understands the frailty of 315 00:20:30,609 --> 00:20:34,429 Speaker 1: the human condition, understands the sin nature, even for saved people. 316 00:20:36,550 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: But also it's so narrow that, In this verse, in 317 00:20:40,820 --> 00:20:45,419 Speaker 1: this passage, it's so narrow that it should not be 318 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,609 Speaker 1: entered into lightly, nor should it be the first step 319 00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:53,460 Speaker 1: or the first decision, the first resort, if you will. 320 00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:59,109 Speaker 1: We talk about sexual immorality. We talk about fornication. Jesus 321 00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:06,010 Speaker 1: is very clear on that. That's the reason. 1 Corinthians 7. 322 00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:08,109 Speaker 1: This is another passage that people will go to, and 323 00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:12,169 Speaker 1: I think it's helpful for us to go to. First 324 00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:16,090 Speaker 1: Corinthians chapter seven, the apostle Paul is talking to Christian 325 00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: people in the context of a local church. And the 326 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,220 Speaker 1: question of marriage apparently came up and the question of 327 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:28,179 Speaker 1: should someone who is a Christian married to someone who 328 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,859 Speaker 1: is not a Christian stay in that marriage. First Corinthians 329 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,050 Speaker 1: chapter seven and verse 10. The apostle Paul, and unto 330 00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:37,990 Speaker 1: the married I command. So he's talking to married people. 331 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:40,629 Speaker 1: Yet not I, but the Lord. Let not the wife 332 00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: depart from her husband. All right. So right at the top, 333 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,940 Speaker 1: Paul says, don't walk away. Don't leave. Verse 11. But, 334 00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be 335 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,260 Speaker 1: reconciled to her husband and let not the husband put 336 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: away his wife. Okay. So again, the sanctity of marriage, 337 00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: the importance of marriage, the covenant that till death do 338 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: us part. Listen, if they can't get along, maybe separation is, is, 339 00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: is needed. We could talk a lot about that. I'm 340 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,190 Speaker 1: not going to dive into that, but Paul kind of says, hey, 341 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:17,010 Speaker 1: if they can't talk, they need to seek reconciliation. And 342 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:19,230 Speaker 1: the Apostle Paul, he says a lot of stuff, but 343 00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: he says, look, if your spouse is happy to be 344 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: married to you and they're not leaving, then stay married. 345 00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:30,530 Speaker 1: You believe different things. Let God use you to be 346 00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:35,660 Speaker 1: a blessing to them. Peter says this in 1 Peter 3, 347 00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:38,139 Speaker 1: Similar to what Paul is saying here, God can use 348 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: your testimony as a believer to bring your unsaved spouse 349 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:47,850 Speaker 1: to Christ. What an incredible opportunity we have. As we 350 00:22:47,910 --> 00:22:50,950 Speaker 1: follow the Lord, that can be such an opportunity to 351 00:22:51,010 --> 00:22:53,390 Speaker 1: the person we're married to, and God can use that. 352 00:22:53,770 --> 00:22:56,310 Speaker 1: Paul talks about this, be a great testimony to your wife, 353 00:22:56,350 --> 00:23:01,139 Speaker 1: to your husband. But then he says, but hey, if 354 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:07,670 Speaker 1: they walk away, if they leave, Let them go. Let 355 00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:12,070 Speaker 1: them go. He says here, God's called us to peace. 356 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,410 Speaker 1: And this is the passage that people will use when 357 00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:21,610 Speaker 1: talking about abandonment. This is the phrase people use talking 358 00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:25,550 Speaker 1: about abandonment. The last area that often comes up is 359 00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:29,930 Speaker 1: this area of abuse. So we talk about sexual immorality, fornication. 360 00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:33,020 Speaker 1: Jesus talks about that. Paul talks about abandonment. The last 361 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,810 Speaker 1: area is abuse. The Bible is very narrow on reasons 362 00:23:39,070 --> 00:23:45,389 Speaker 1: for divorce, acceptable, if you will, reasons for divorce. But 363 00:23:45,410 --> 00:23:48,730 Speaker 1: this other area, and it's a large area, abuse, it 364 00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:52,619 Speaker 1: can encompass certainly child abuse if a spouse is hurting children, 365 00:23:53,470 --> 00:23:59,300 Speaker 1: spousal abuse, the physical kind of abuse, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse. 366 00:23:59,660 --> 00:24:02,980 Speaker 1: These would all fall into the context of abuse. I'm 367 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: going to address those in a minute. But we'll just 368 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:08,980 Speaker 1: use that big word, abuse, to mean all of those things. 369 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: If one spouse is being abused by another spouse. Now, 370 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,330 Speaker 1: this doesn't mean if a spouse has been unkind. We've 371 00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:23,330 Speaker 1: all had those moments, right? This is habitual, ongoing abuse. 372 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:30,250 Speaker 1: Or it is a spouse creating a dangerous situation for 373 00:24:30,270 --> 00:24:33,949 Speaker 1: the person they're married to and potentially their children. I 374 00:24:34,150 --> 00:24:36,710 Speaker 1: want to say... A couple of things. One, first of all, 375 00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:38,610 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of verses here too, but first 376 00:24:38,650 --> 00:24:43,300 Speaker 1: of all, if you are in a situation that is 377 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,500 Speaker 1: dangerous for you or your children, you need to get 378 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,420 Speaker 1: out of that situation as quickly as you can. God 379 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:54,940 Speaker 1: doesn't call you to stay in a situation or an 380 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:01,530 Speaker 1: environment in a marriage or elsewhere where you are being hurt. 381 00:25:01,670 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: You're being abused or your children are in danger. You 382 00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: have a responsibility, as hard as it may be, to 383 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: get out of that. There are, and they're easy to find, local, perhaps, shelters, resources, 384 00:25:17,330 --> 00:25:19,430 Speaker 1: easy to find. The internet makes this very, very easy. 385 00:25:19,490 --> 00:25:21,630 Speaker 1: Phone numbers that you can call, people that will help 386 00:25:21,650 --> 00:25:23,830 Speaker 1: you get out of those relationships, or maybe you just 387 00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:25,670 Speaker 1: know where to go to get out of that relationship, 388 00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:28,430 Speaker 1: go to a family member, friend, whatever. You have not 389 00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:31,580 Speaker 1: been called by God to be in the context of 390 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,410 Speaker 1: that relationship. Think about this again. What was God's plan 391 00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:40,340 Speaker 1: for marriage? Well, that it would represent Christ's relationship to 392 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:47,659 Speaker 1: the church. What is that relationship? It's sacrificial. It's loving unconditionally. 393 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:52,830 Speaker 1: It's caring for and meeting needs. It's mutual submission. It's 394 00:25:52,890 --> 00:25:59,810 Speaker 1: serving one another. It's not an abusive relationship. God is 395 00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:05,930 Speaker 1: not abusing us. Christ does not abuse his bride. That's 396 00:26:05,970 --> 00:26:08,850 Speaker 1: the plan. You haven't been called to stay in an 397 00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: abusive relationship. I want to be very clear on that. Now, 398 00:26:13,230 --> 00:26:15,909 Speaker 1: when we get into issues like spiritual or emotional abuse, 399 00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:18,129 Speaker 1: we might need help discerning what that is and what 400 00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:22,690 Speaker 1: that all looks like. We need help working through these things. 401 00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: There's a difference between someone lost their temper and Someone 402 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,409 Speaker 1: has a habit of abuse, particularly when we're talking about 403 00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:34,869 Speaker 1: things like emotional abuse or spiritual abuse, right? There's a 404 00:26:34,910 --> 00:26:37,530 Speaker 1: difference between, you know, I lost my mind for a minute. 405 00:26:38,790 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: I got it right. You know, God help, whatever. God 406 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,180 Speaker 1: can reconcile that and God can restore that and God 407 00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:49,379 Speaker 1: can take that away. God can do that work, okay? 408 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,980 Speaker 1: What we're talking about, though, is someone that finds himself 409 00:26:52,180 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: in a home environment where abuse is taking place. Listen, 410 00:26:55,270 --> 00:26:57,550 Speaker 1: the Bible talks a lot about that. I want to 411 00:26:57,590 --> 00:27:00,300 Speaker 1: read some verses. We can apply the rest of the 412 00:27:00,340 --> 00:27:05,030 Speaker 1: Bible to our marriage relationship. Matthew 18. This is a 413 00:27:05,070 --> 00:27:09,149 Speaker 1: well-known passage that deals with conflicts in the context of 414 00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:14,650 Speaker 1: the church, particularly speaking of married couples who are Christians. 415 00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:19,750 Speaker 1: What does Jesus say about this? Look at Jesus' words. 416 00:27:19,790 --> 00:27:23,340 Speaker 1: He's talking here. Moreover, if thy brother shall trespass against thee, 417 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: What is trespass against thee? It means all kinds of stuff, right? 418 00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:33,429 Speaker 1: Violates your sovereignty given to you by God. This could 419 00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:38,330 Speaker 1: be violence. It could be anything. Trespass against thee. Violates 420 00:27:38,369 --> 00:27:42,670 Speaker 1: the word of God. Violates what should happen in a relationship. Moreover, 421 00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:45,010 Speaker 1: if thy brother trespass against thee. So this isn't speaking 422 00:27:45,070 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: specifically to marriage. Very broad relationships. Go and tell him 423 00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: his fault between thee and him alone. So one-on-one, this 424 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: is not right. And in the context of marriage, I 425 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: think this happens. If he shall hear thee, thou hast 426 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: gained thy brother. So maybe this is a conversation you have. Hey, 427 00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:06,250 Speaker 1: what you said was very hurtful to me. It was 428 00:28:06,290 --> 00:28:09,750 Speaker 1: very damaging. The way that you have been acting, been 429 00:28:09,770 --> 00:28:13,890 Speaker 1: treating me, this is not right. If he hears you, 430 00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:18,500 Speaker 1: that means there will be repentance. There will be asking 431 00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:21,980 Speaker 1: for forgiveness. There will be coming together and rebuilding. If 432 00:28:22,020 --> 00:28:24,890 Speaker 1: he hears that you've gained your brother, all right, Again, 433 00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:31,340 Speaker 1: I think of this in marriage. You've reconciled that covenant relationship. 434 00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: Verse 16, but listen, so important. Jesus is talking to 435 00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:40,530 Speaker 1: Christian people here. We would say people of faith, people 436 00:28:40,550 --> 00:28:42,390 Speaker 1: that follow him, people in the context of the church. 437 00:28:43,390 --> 00:28:46,690 Speaker 1: He's talking to them and he's laying out this process 438 00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:53,350 Speaker 1: for addressing someone who's done wrong to you because he 439 00:28:53,410 --> 00:28:55,830 Speaker 1: knows what we're about. What did he say to the Pharisees? 440 00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:57,650 Speaker 1: Because of the hardness of your hearts. He gets it. 441 00:28:57,830 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: Verse 18 or 16. But if you will not hear thee, 442 00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:05,739 Speaker 1: this is Matthew 18, 16, then take with the one 443 00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: or two more that in the mouth of two or 444 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: three witnesses, every word may be established. So what's the process? 445 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: You go to that person by yourself. You talk to 446 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: them and then you bring someone else along, right? So 447 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,700 Speaker 1: that it's not my word against their word. It's, there 448 00:29:20,790 --> 00:29:22,780 Speaker 1: are a few of us and we're having a conversation and, 449 00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: And if that person says, no, I'm not changing or no, 450 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm not whatever, it's been established. There's more than one 451 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,100 Speaker 1: person involved. Again, in terms of what we're talking about, abuse. 452 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,060 Speaker 1: And that process is not different because you happen to 453 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:43,830 Speaker 1: be married. Now, I would say the goal of restoration, 454 00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:52,420 Speaker 1: the goal of reconciliation certainly exists. But we know that 455 00:29:52,460 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: both people need to be dedicated, committed to that. And 456 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: if they're not, the Bible would say, let them be 457 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,989 Speaker 1: as a publican, a heathen, They're outside of that relationship. 458 00:30:04,570 --> 00:30:06,090 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Let's go back to the Old Testament. 459 00:30:06,110 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: A couple of Old Testament passages here. Psalm 11, verse 5. 460 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,180 Speaker 1: The Lord trieth the righteous, but the wicked and him 461 00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: that loveth violence his soul hateth. It says the Lord 462 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:23,790 Speaker 1: hates those that love violence. Verse 6. Upon the wicked... 463 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,980 Speaker 1: He shall rain snares, fire, and brimstone, and horrible tempest. 464 00:30:27,010 --> 00:30:28,990 Speaker 1: This shall be the portion of their cup. For the 465 00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:36,270 Speaker 1: righteous Lord loveth righteousness. His countenance doth behold the upright. 466 00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:43,230 Speaker 1: Psalm 9, beginning of verse 9. The Lord also will 467 00:30:43,260 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times 468 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: of trouble. And they that know thy name will put 469 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: their trust in thee. For thou, Lord, hast not forsaken 470 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: them that seek thee. Sing praises to the Lord which 471 00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:56,900 Speaker 1: dwell in Zion. Declare among the people his doings. When 472 00:30:56,940 --> 00:31:00,380 Speaker 1: he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them. He forgetteth 473 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: not the cry of the humble. The psalmist is saying 474 00:31:04,820 --> 00:31:10,150 Speaker 1: the character of God is that he is angry. He 475 00:31:10,270 --> 00:31:15,610 Speaker 1: hates those who do violence or harm to others. If 476 00:31:15,650 --> 00:31:20,590 Speaker 1: that's the character of God, why would God demand then 477 00:31:20,790 --> 00:31:28,140 Speaker 1: that we stay physically, in a relationship that is abusive. 478 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:35,540 Speaker 1: God gives a process for dealing with those who have 479 00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:40,980 Speaker 1: hurt us. We see God's character as it relates to 480 00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: those who do harm to others. Proverbs 22 verse 24 481 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,610 Speaker 1: says this, Make no friendship with an angry man, and 482 00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:50,670 Speaker 1: with a furious man thou shalt not go, lest thou 483 00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:54,330 Speaker 1: learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul. 484 00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:57,750 Speaker 1: Stay away from those who are angry. Stay away from those, 485 00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:00,450 Speaker 1: not who get angry, but who are angry, who are 486 00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:03,330 Speaker 1: out of control and live out of control. Proverbs chapter 487 00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:08,250 Speaker 1: 22 and verse 3. A prudent man foreseeth the evil 488 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:13,540 Speaker 1: and hideth himself, but the simple pass on and are punished. 489 00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: A prudent man, what? Foresees evil and hides, gets away 490 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:23,500 Speaker 1: from it. That's what a prudent man does. And I 491 00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:27,580 Speaker 1: would argue, based on these passages and so many other passages, 492 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: that a person who is abusive to the person they're 493 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:40,910 Speaker 1: married to, continually, unrepentantly abusive, is a person who has 494 00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:47,890 Speaker 1: walked away from, we call it abandonment, their relationship, their marriage, 495 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,270 Speaker 1: violated what God intended to and is not living as 496 00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:59,780 Speaker 1: a married person within the context of that marriage covenant. 497 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: We talk about abandonment. They walked away. I think what 498 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:07,740 Speaker 1: Paul is talking about is a peaceful walking away. That's 499 00:33:07,770 --> 00:33:12,970 Speaker 1: why I'm hesitant to tie the two. But listen, when 500 00:33:13,050 --> 00:33:15,310 Speaker 1: someone begins to abuse the person they're married to in 501 00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:17,390 Speaker 1: a covenant relationship that's supposed to be a picture of 502 00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:19,410 Speaker 1: Christ in the church, that's supposed to be loving and 503 00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:27,060 Speaker 1: kind and humble and sacrificial, and they're treating it with 504 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: abuse and disdain and harm, they're no longer functioning within 505 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: that relationship. They are oppressing the person that they happen 506 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: to be married to. Jesus, speaking of those who harm children, 507 00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: said this, Matthew 18, verse 6, But whoso shall offend 508 00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: one of these little ones which believeth in me, it 509 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: were better for him that a millstone were hanged about 510 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,540 Speaker 1: his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth 511 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:05,070 Speaker 1: of the sea. People that hurt children. Jesus did not, 512 00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:12,950 Speaker 1: as he spoke and ministered, did not take kindly to 513 00:34:12,969 --> 00:34:17,830 Speaker 1: the harm of other people, to hurting other people, to 514 00:34:17,890 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: abusing other people. And so we don't need to find 515 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,860 Speaker 1: a passage that says, hey, married person, if your spouse 516 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: is abusing you, you need to get out. I think 517 00:34:30,420 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: we can look at the rest of the Bible and 518 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,930 Speaker 1: understand the character of God is that he hates those 519 00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:37,630 Speaker 1: who are violent and harmful to others. He says, if 520 00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: you hurt a child, you should be drowned. You need 521 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:43,700 Speaker 1: to get out of that. You need to take it 522 00:34:43,739 --> 00:34:45,630 Speaker 1: in front of people that can help you. And if 523 00:34:45,650 --> 00:34:49,070 Speaker 1: the person you're trying to deal with or reconcile to rejects, 524 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:52,670 Speaker 1: they need to be treated like a heathen that's outside 525 00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:59,469 Speaker 1: of the church. Abuse, for some reason, in the context 526 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: of the church, sometimes is viewed as you need to 527 00:35:04,219 --> 00:35:08,540 Speaker 1: hang on because there's not a specific explicit verse. Listen, 528 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,850 Speaker 1: the Bible tells us to get out of those relationships. Now, 529 00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:17,290 Speaker 1: as I come to a close, so we looked at 530 00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: those three categories, fornication, abandonment, abuse. Fornication, easy to understand. Abandonment, 531 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,219 Speaker 1: easy to understand. They walked away. Abuse, harder to understand. 532 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:36,110 Speaker 1: I would say this, a couple things. In conclusion, God 533 00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:39,930 Speaker 1: is not in favor of divorce. He doesn't want you 534 00:35:39,950 --> 00:35:43,770 Speaker 1: to get divorced. There will be an allowance for it 535 00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:48,290 Speaker 1: because we are sinners, but that's not the plan. The 536 00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:50,969 Speaker 1: plan is that we will be in a covenant relationship 537 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:55,340 Speaker 1: until death do us part, one that is soul-connected and 538 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,020 Speaker 1: that reflects to the world the relationship of Christ and 539 00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: his church. That's the plan. There are things that come 540 00:36:01,540 --> 00:36:06,150 Speaker 1: into a relationship, sexual immorality, fornication. People walk away and say, 541 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,300 Speaker 1: I don't want to do this anymore. You can't control that. 542 00:36:11,940 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: But divorce should never be the first option. It should 543 00:36:15,219 --> 00:36:21,009 Speaker 1: always be the last. If you are facing a situation 544 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:27,490 Speaker 1: that has sexual immorality, abandonment, abuse, get help as quickly 545 00:36:27,570 --> 00:36:31,230 Speaker 1: as you can. You're probably not the best person to 546 00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:33,890 Speaker 1: decide what you should do next because you're so close 547 00:36:33,930 --> 00:36:36,550 Speaker 1: to it. You're dealing with it. Again, if there's abuse involved, 548 00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:40,049 Speaker 1: get some help. If you're in a local church, get 549 00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:45,780 Speaker 1: help from the church. If you're Not friends, family, other organizations. 550 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:51,089 Speaker 1: You can find them. Get help as quickly as you can. Ideally, 551 00:36:52,489 --> 00:36:55,430 Speaker 1: help that understands the world from a biblical perspective. That's 552 00:36:55,450 --> 00:36:57,089 Speaker 1: why the church is a wonderful place to get help. 553 00:36:57,810 --> 00:36:59,270 Speaker 1: People who can look at the Bible and say, this 554 00:36:59,330 --> 00:37:01,489 Speaker 1: is what biblically you should do. This is how you 555 00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:05,790 Speaker 1: should behave. With the caveat that if there's abuse, you 556 00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:07,989 Speaker 1: need to get out and then get the help. Get 557 00:37:08,070 --> 00:37:13,910 Speaker 1: safe and then get the help. But get help. Sit 558 00:37:13,950 --> 00:37:17,190 Speaker 1: with someone and trust someone to help you walk through 559 00:37:18,130 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: what you feel and what you're looking at. Sometimes, particularly 560 00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: in the area of abuse, when you talk about emotional 561 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: abuse and spiritual abuse, very hard to discern what's, you know, 562 00:37:27,739 --> 00:37:31,379 Speaker 1: they're a jerk versus there's actual abuse happening. So having 563 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,420 Speaker 1: other people involved in that conversation, trained people, counselors, very, 564 00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: very helpful. And then mapping out a plan to go forward. 565 00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:45,310 Speaker 1: I believe that God can restore And God does it. 566 00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:47,390 Speaker 1: I've seen it happen over and over and over and 567 00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:52,740 Speaker 1: over again. It's amazing. But God restores when both husband 568 00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:56,940 Speaker 1: and wife, the two people in that relationship, are submitted 569 00:37:56,980 --> 00:38:03,169 Speaker 1: to that restoration. And so, again, the first option should be, God, 570 00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:05,290 Speaker 1: what can we do to reconcile this, to fix this? 571 00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:08,210 Speaker 1: There's sin involved. How do we address it? Get help. 572 00:38:08,590 --> 00:38:14,540 Speaker 1: Have someone walk you through that. But unfortunately, there comes 573 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:16,460 Speaker 1: a time, what Jesus said, because of the hardness of 574 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,790 Speaker 1: your hearts, because of sin, where people end up in 575 00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:27,489 Speaker 1: a divorce. Not the ideal, but it certainly happens. And 576 00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:30,350 Speaker 1: to those who have walked through this season, I haven't, 577 00:38:30,850 --> 00:38:32,330 Speaker 1: but I've known a lot of people who have, and 578 00:38:32,430 --> 00:38:35,819 Speaker 1: I've only ever heard one thing. It's horrible. Even the 579 00:38:35,860 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: best situations are terrible. Even the best situations are hurtful 580 00:38:40,340 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: and harmful. Get help, not just while you're walking through it, 581 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,860 Speaker 1: but on the other side of it. Draw close to 582 00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:53,219 Speaker 1: the Lord. Listen, understand that God's grace and mercy applies 583 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,380 Speaker 1: on the other side of divorce, just like it did 584 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,890 Speaker 1: on the other side before divorce. God loves you. God 585 00:38:59,950 --> 00:39:01,950 Speaker 1: cares for you. You're not an outcast. You're not a 586 00:39:01,989 --> 00:39:05,410 Speaker 1: second-class citizen. God still has a plan for your life. 587 00:39:05,469 --> 00:39:08,009 Speaker 1: God will still use your life. God still loves you 588 00:39:08,510 --> 00:39:11,609 Speaker 1: and cares for you, and your Christian community should as well. 589 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,020 Speaker 1: If they're not, you need to find another Christian community. 590 00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:22,009 Speaker 1: They should as well. God will work in your life. 591 00:39:24,290 --> 00:39:28,610 Speaker 1: But you have to let God do that work. I 592 00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:32,580 Speaker 1: think one of the very important principles of marriage, and 593 00:39:32,620 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: I've talked about this in counseling a lot, is that 594 00:39:34,219 --> 00:39:38,100 Speaker 1: you can't control what other people do, but you can 595 00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:41,350 Speaker 1: control what you do. And so whether you're on the 596 00:39:41,390 --> 00:39:43,130 Speaker 1: front end of this, the back end of it, it's 597 00:39:43,150 --> 00:39:47,509 Speaker 1: already happened, whatever, your goal should be conformity to the 598 00:39:47,630 --> 00:39:52,090 Speaker 1: image of Jesus Christ. continuing to grow in your relationship 599 00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: with the Lord, and allowing God to develop you into 600 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: what He wants you to be. Marriage works best when 601 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: two people are committed to the Lord and growing in 602 00:40:02,739 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: the relationship with Him individually, which draws them together. It's beautiful. 603 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,870 Speaker 1: But even if one spouse decides not to do that, 604 00:40:10,969 --> 00:40:12,469 Speaker 1: and even if they decide to go away or they 605 00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:16,370 Speaker 1: need to go away, you can continue to grow in 606 00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:19,460 Speaker 1: your relationship And that needs to be your focus. And 607 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,940 Speaker 1: let God do a work of renewal and restoration and 608 00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:26,100 Speaker 1: providing new life just as He says He will. Let 609 00:40:26,140 --> 00:40:30,259 Speaker 1: Him work in your life. I hope that this has 610 00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:31,770 Speaker 1: been a help. I know it's been a little bit longer. 611 00:40:32,969 --> 00:40:43,790 Speaker 1: I know that it's a difficult topic. It's a challenging topic. 612 00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:47,770 Speaker 1: It's one I'd rather not talk about. It's one that 613 00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:51,469 Speaker 1: everyone has a different opinion on. Hopefully this can be 614 00:40:51,489 --> 00:40:53,509 Speaker 1: a starting point for you. I'd love to hear what 615 00:40:53,530 --> 00:40:57,049 Speaker 1: you think. Leave your comments, questions, and we'll do our 616 00:40:57,090 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: best to help along the way. But I hope this 617 00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: has been a help to you. Thank you for listening. 618 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,259 Speaker 1: Thank you for watching. We'll talk to you next time.