1
00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Plane landed. I texted my wife and said, Okay, I'm

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: We've landed in Atlanta. All's good. And then the bell

3
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 1: demed for everybody to stand up, and I stood up

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,479
Speaker 1: and fell over into some ladies who were sitting next

5
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: to me and hit my head real hard, and they

6
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: called nine one one had the paramedics on the plane

7
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: in just a matter of minutes and had me off

8
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 1: the plane and out of surgery in less than two hours,

9
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 1: and so cleared the clot. I had a huge blood

10
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,159
Speaker 1: clot in my carotid artery on the right side, and

11
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: my whole body was just shutting down. My father in

12
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: law said to me, was He said, this really has

13
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: very little to do with your body. This is all

14
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,279
Speaker 1: about your mind. He said. If you can't control your

15
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 1: mind when you get to the end of this, you

16
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 1: will not be the same person.

17
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,199
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the March or Die Podcast. Good

18
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: to have you with us today. This is the show

19
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,879
Speaker 2: where we do our best every episode to give you

20
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 2: both the principles and perspectives you need to march when

21
00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 2: it would be easier to stay where you are and die.

22
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 2: My name is your Amy Stalnaker. I am your host

23
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 2: today and again glad to have you joining us. If

24
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 2: you haven't yet subscribed to the show, please do that

25
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,720
Speaker 2: right now. Wherever you're listening from, go ahead and subscribe.

26
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 2: And we want to make sure that you're getting all

27
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,199
Speaker 2: the content as it comes out, So if you're listening

28
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,559
Speaker 2: to the audio version, hit that subscribe button on whatever

29
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 2: podcast platform you're listening from, and make sure you take

30
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 2: some time go over to YouTube. You can find us

31
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,600
Speaker 2: there March or Die or the March or Dice Show,

32
00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 2: and subscribe to the channel. This podcast is there. Other

33
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 2: great content is pushed out there as well, so go

34
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 2: ahead and check that out. I am excited to have

35
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 2: my guest on today. We met virtually.

36
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,119
Speaker 1: Just like this, probably been about a month ago now, I.

37
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 2: Guess or something, yes, sir, and we started talking and

38
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 2: as we did, I knew that this was someone I

39
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 2: wanted to have on and someone I wanted to talk

40
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 2: to and share with with you the audience. So my

41
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 2: guest today is doctor Scott. Scott is a pastor, an author,

42
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 2: a leader, and hopefully we'll talk about all of those things.

43
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 2: Speaks a lot on leadership and on resiliency in particular,

44
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 2: and again, all of that is what we talk about here,

45
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: and so I wanted to make sure we had that conversation.

46
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,040
Speaker 2: But Scott takes all of this or approaches all of

47
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,519
Speaker 2: this from a very personal, we could say, lived experience

48
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 2: as both the cancer and stroke survivor, and I want

49
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 2: to hear that whole story. But we were talking about this,

50
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 2: and I Scott, when I was talking to you, I

51
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,440
Speaker 2: often have these conversations on leadership and resilience in those

52
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 2: things with kind of people in the military or that

53
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,640
Speaker 2: have that military background, and so it's a very different perspective.

54
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,640
Speaker 2: One of the points I try to make often is

55
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 2: that trauma and brokenness and hurt, those aren't reserved for people.

56
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,359
Speaker 1: In the military community.

57
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 2: And sometimes when we talk about trauma and some of

58
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,840
Speaker 2: those conversations, it's like, well, because I was in the military,

59
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: because I'm a first responder, But really, those those trauma, brokenness, hurt,

60
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 2: those apply to everyone who's ever lived yep. And you

61
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,639
Speaker 2: have a really unique perspective on that and a great

62
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 2: way of talking about it. So I really appreciate you

63
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 2: coming on. Thanks for the time and man just sent

64
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:18,639
Speaker 2: for the conversation.

65
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 1: No, thanks for making space for me, Jeremy. I'm and

66
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 1: looking forward to this for several days now and really

67
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 1: excited to be a part of the podcast and so

68
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,399
Speaker 1: appreciate you giving me some of your time several weeks

69
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 1: ago when we kind of talked through all this together. Yeah, No,

70
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: for sure, that was great.

71
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I'll be a guest on a podcast,

72
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: which I always appreciate, and other times I'm sitting there

73
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: on someone else's podcast thinking why am I talking and

74
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 2: they're not talking, and that.

75
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: This was one of those.

76
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I should be saying a lot less and

77
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 2: Scott should be saying a lot more. So I'm glad,

78
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 2: glad we're able to make it happen. Let's just let's

79
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 2: kind of start with your your story. Definitely want to

80
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 2: hear your faith story and how you came to Christ

81
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 2: and that, but maybe talk a little bit about growing

82
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 2: up and some of the things that kind of led

83
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 2: into your adult life.

84
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. No. I was born and raised in Dallas, Texas,

85
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 1: just outside of Dallas, in a little community called Duncanville.

86
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,279
Speaker 1: And eventually, when I graduated high school, came to Oklahoma

87
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,680
Speaker 1: City for college, and while I was in college, felt

88
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 1: to call to ministry. I had gone through high school

89
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,360
Speaker 1: and college really kind of singing all the time, and

90
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,159
Speaker 1: had really paid for college vocally singing it for the

91
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: school and singing and funerals all sorts of places. They

92
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: would just pay me to sing, so I would show

93
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 1: up at places and sing, and that's how I kind

94
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: of got into college and paid for college. And then

95
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 1: while in college, got to call to ministry. And then

96
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 1: once I left college in nineteen ninety, initially went to

97
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 1: be a youth pastor at a very small church and Houston,

98
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: did that for about four years, and then went to

99
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,280
Speaker 1: a larger church of about a thousand people and Portland,

100
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 1: and as soon as we got there, the pastor left,

101
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 1: and so we followed him to Nashville, did three years

102
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 1: in Nashville with him, and then went to a big

103
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 1: megachurch in Oaklano or in Kansas City and was there

104
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 1: for six years, and then eventually became a senior pastor

105
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: in San Diego. And then while I was in San Diego,

106
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,040
Speaker 1: had a friend that I had gone to college with

107
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:39,200
Speaker 1: that became a president of a small liberal arts school

108
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 1: in Ohio just outside of Columbus, and he called and said, Hey,

109
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 1: I need a chaplain and by the way, if you

110
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,160
Speaker 1: come to be the chaplain we'll pay for your doctorate

111
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 1: in full, and we'll pay for your kids, pay for

112
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,599
Speaker 1: your kids tuition to college. I was like, you know,

113
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 1: it seems like a pretty easy decision. We'll do it.

114
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 1: We'll do it to pray about that one. Yeah, So

115
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 1: that was pretty quick and we decided that did that

116
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,839
Speaker 1: for nine years, and while I was there, moved into

117
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,640
Speaker 1: out of the chaplaincy when they had a presidential transition,

118
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,880
Speaker 1: and I became the VP of development basically for the university.

119
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 1: When I finished my doctoral degree and the boys finished

120
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 1: their college careers, then my wife, who was from Oklahoma City,

121
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,160
Speaker 1: said hey, I just want to go home. So we

122
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 1: went home, and at that point in time, I was like,

123
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm going to get out of

124
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: this denominational church stuff. For a while, one of our

125
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,919
Speaker 1: best friends was Bob Goff. I don't know if you

126
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,320
Speaker 1: know who Bob is. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, And so

127
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,039
Speaker 1: Bob always would say to me, Scott, what are you

128
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 1: doing with the Nazarenes. You could do so much more

129
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 1: away from the Nazarenes. And my wife kept hearing that,

130
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: and so eventually I was like, okay, so let's get

131
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 1: out of the denominational stuff and came back to Oklahoma City.

132
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,160
Speaker 1: I initially went to work for a hospital system here

133
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma called Integris, raising money for them, and then

134
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 1: had done that for about two years when a head

135
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 1: hutter contacted me from a group called One World Health.

136
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: One World Health builds self operationally, self sustaining hospitals and

137
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 1: clinics in East Africa and Central America. We can get

138
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,679
Speaker 1: them built, staffed and self sustaining in eighteen to twenty

139
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: four months. Pretty remarkable system. They've got about thirty five

140
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 1: clinics and hospitals throughout East Africa and Central America, and

141
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 1: they are just a phenomenal organization. Wonderful people, just great

142
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 1: Christian people, love the Lord, really committed to making a

143
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: difference in the world. So I worked for them for

144
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: six years, and then in the process of doing that

145
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 1: for them as the VP of Development, had cancer stage

146
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: three colo rectal in twenty twenty one and through twenty

147
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: twenty two had twelve rounds of chemo, thirty one days

148
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: of radiation, thirty six days in the hospital, and five surgeries. Finally,

149
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 1: after all of that, I was cancer free and was

150
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 1: traveling like a madman for One World health all over

151
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 1: the world about some portion of forty two to forty

152
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: five weeks a year. I was on the road and

153
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,680
Speaker 1: was flying from Charleston, South Carolina, where they're based, and

154
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,960
Speaker 1: was supposed to be flying to Dallas Fort Worth to

155
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 1: meet with donors and talk with donors about what we

156
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: were doing to get some more money, and had to

157
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,520
Speaker 1: change planes in Atlanta. While the plane was landing in Atlanta,

158
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 1: I looked out the window and everything was blurry. I

159
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this is weird. Either I need some

160
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 1: new glasses or I'm way too tired and I've got

161
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,320
Speaker 1: to start traveling so much. And when the plane landed,

162
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 1: I texted my wife and said, Okay, we've landed in Atlanta.

163
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,200
Speaker 1: All is good. And then the bell deinged for everybody

164
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: to stand up, and I stood up and fell over

165
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,839
Speaker 1: into some ladies who were sitting next to me and

166
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 1: hit my head real hard, and they helped me get

167
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 1: back into my seat. And the stewardess, who was sitting

168
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: across from me on the Delta flight we were on

169
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 1: the exit row, kind of knew something was wrong and

170
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: asked if I was okay. I was slurring my words,

171
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me, and she asked if I could have

172
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: my if she could have my water bottle. She wanted

173
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: to make sure I wasn't drunk, so she opened it up,

174
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 1: smelled of it and said, you're not doing well. And

175
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,320
Speaker 1: I said, I'm okay. Just let me sit here for

176
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 1: a minute. And I kept trying to stand up and

177
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,520
Speaker 1: tried to pull myself up on the bar, you know,

178
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,959
Speaker 1: above the door, And finally she put her hands in

179
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 1: my chest and said no, no, no, I need you to

180
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 1: sit right here. And then she went and got another

181
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: stewardess and who sat by me while everybody got off

182
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: the plane, and they called nine one one had the

183
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,120
Speaker 1: paramedics on the plane in just a matter of minutes

184
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,520
Speaker 1: and had me off the plane and out of surgery

185
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: in less than two hours, and so cleared the clot.

186
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 1: I had a huge blood clot in my carotid artery

187
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 1: on the right side, and my whole body was just

188
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 1: shutting down. I didn't know it, but they were great, Yeah. Well,

189
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,079
Speaker 1: I always tell people, this is terribly terrible, Jamian, But

190
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,319
Speaker 1: I always tell people, if you're gonna die, a stroke

191
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 1: is a wonderful way to do it. There's no pain,

192
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,960
Speaker 1: there's no fear, there's no anxiety. You're just like, Oh,

193
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 1: I just need a good nap, that's all I need.

194
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 2: That's unbelievable. Yeah, I guess, uh, I guess you don't

195
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,719
Speaker 2: want to rush into that, but we all have to go.

196
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah at some point in time to eat your time.

197
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: But man is like, oh, if I'm going to go,

198
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:49,559
Speaker 1: this is the way to do it.

199
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,679
Speaker 2: So how long did it take to recover from from that?

200
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 2: From the stroke and.

201
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 1: So the cancer journey. I've told my brother in law

202
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,319
Speaker 1: and father in law, we were both physicians here in

203
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and have worked incredibly hard to keep me alive.

204
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 1: I always tell them, hey, if I have cancer again,

205
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: I'll get back in the ring. We'll fight. I can

206
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: beat cancer. But if I have a stroke, just give

207
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,160
Speaker 1: me a pillow and let me die. The recovery from

208
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,440
Speaker 1: cancer was much easier than the recovery from stroke. The

209
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,839
Speaker 1: stroke thing it's you know, with cancer, it's all physical,

210
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: and so you're constantly kind of trying to bite through

211
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,079
Speaker 1: your lip and say, Okay, I'm not that sick, I'm

212
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 1: all right. But with the stroke thing, it's all mental,

213
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 1: and so you're constantly kind of messing with your mind

214
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: and trying to make sure your mind is right. And

215
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,079
Speaker 1: I don't think I told you this a couple of

216
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: weeks ago when you were doing the podcast for me.

217
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: But my father in law when I started cancer, told

218
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: me three things. They were the most important things I

219
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: heard in the entire time that I had cancer. First

220
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 1: thing he said was, Scott, the oncologist is going to

221
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 1: take you. This is nine months, but this will be

222
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,760
Speaker 1: at least a year. He said, your body will not cooperate,

223
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 1: and so you just need to be prepared for this

224
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: journey to be much longer than what you've been told,

225
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: like okay. And then the second thing he said is

226
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 1: he said, we're going to take you to the very

227
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 1: edge of death. I promise you you'll see death, but

228
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,760
Speaker 1: we'll get you back. And he was right. Unbeknownst to

229
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 1: me or to them, I was allergic to one of

230
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 1: the chemo drugs they were giving me, which was called

231
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 1: a renta tea can, and the oncologist kept telling me,

232
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: I mean I was Christmas Day twenty twenty one. I

233
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 1: was on all fours in the shower, just everything coming

234
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,839
Speaker 1: out of my body, and the oncologists kept saying, you're

235
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: supposed to be sick, but you're not supposed to be

236
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 1: this sick. And unbeknownst to me or them, they were

237
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,719
Speaker 1: just poisoning me to death. My body would not metabolize

238
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: the a rent of tea can so they're like, we're

239
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 1: just just like just dumping poisoning you and seeing how

240
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 1: much of it you can handle. And so it once

241
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,839
Speaker 1: they got it out of my system, you know, it

242
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: was able to kind of adjust the meds and then

243
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 1: I was okay. But the other thing about third thing,

244
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 1: the most important thing my father in law said to

245
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 1: me was he said, this really has very little to

246
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,440
Speaker 1: do with your body. This is all about your mind.

247
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: He said, if you can't control your mind when you

248
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 1: get to the end of this, you will not be

249
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,959
Speaker 1: the same person. So he said, we will take care

250
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: of the body, but you have to control your mind.

251
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 1: That's only on you. And I was like, okay, that

252
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 1: makes sense. So when we finished up cancer and then

253
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: had the stroke in twenty twenty four, my wife and

254
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 1: I sat down and really kind of took what my

255
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 1: father in law had told me and built it into

256
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,560
Speaker 1: a four stage model for resiliency. So it's mindset, it's

257
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: intentional actions, and then it's networking or community whatever people

258
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 1: like to refer to it as, and then it's discipline.

259
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,439
Speaker 1: They are all the things that I was doing and

260
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: was very committed to walking into cancer, but the things

261
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,199
Speaker 1: that really, when we look back on it, sustained me

262
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: through cancer and got me through cancer and has even

263
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,800
Speaker 1: continued to get me through the stroke. Without that kind

264
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: of real control of my mindset, without taking some very

265
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,840
Speaker 1: intentional actions and steps, and without having the right people

266
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 1: around me, I was very blessed to have a great

267
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: community of people around me. And then disciplines both physical

268
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 1: and spiritual, that I had done for years, we really

269
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 1: leaned into those. Those were the things that helped ensure

270
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 1: in many ways for me personally that I was able

271
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 1: to bounce back and go back to my usual self

272
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: and normal self in the midst of all of the

273
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 1: cancer and the chemo and the stroke.

274
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 2: How much maybe all of it, But so at the

275
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 2: time you were working for a different organization, you went

276
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,160
Speaker 2: through cancer and had the stroke, and now you're working

277
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 2: at a church again. Yes, sir, how much did the

278
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: one impact where you are now?

279
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: The one?

280
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 2: As in you did you make the decision to go

281
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 2: back to the church or work, you know, again, you know,

282
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 2: in church work because of what you had gone through

283
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 2: with cancer and the stroke in that or Yeah, was

284
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 2: that what was that journey because it's been a relatively

285
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 2: short period of time.

286
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, we've only been back in church work for

287
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 1: a year. But it really kind of what happened was

288
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: when I left the university, I turned in my credentials

289
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,120
Speaker 1: for the church, the Nazarene that I was a part of,

290
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: and just said, hey, I'm good. You know, I know

291
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: you guys are going to want these at some point

292
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: in time, so I'm gonna go ahead and give them

293
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: to you. I'm not going to do church work anymore.

294
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into nonprofit work. And so did that.

295
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: For a few years. We were living where we're living

296
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 1: here in Oklahoma City and trying to find a church

297
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 1: and found this church, Saint Luke's Methodist. It's the oldest

298
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 1: church in Oklahoma. It was started the Sunday after the

299
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: land run, and it is the largest Methodist church in Oklahoma.

300
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 1: The pastor, Bob Long is a wonderful preacher, a great

301
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 1: human and they are a very very generous both theologically, financially,

302
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: all those things. Very very generous church just incredibly kind

303
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 1: to people. Bob says all the time, Hey, it's two things.

304
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 1: Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul,

305
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: mind and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself without exception.

306
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: He's like, we don't get to add exceptions. It doesn't

307
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 1: matter anything about it. We don't get to say, hey,

308
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 1: we love everyone, but these people, we love everyone. So

309
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: we found the church to just be this wonderful, gracious

310
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: group of people and started attending. And so I was

311
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,679
Speaker 1: teaching a few classes for him on Wednesday nights. And

312
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,040
Speaker 1: so then the pastor, while I was still working for

313
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: Saint for One World Health, came to me and said, hey,

314
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: we'd like for you to come on pastoral staff for us.

315
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,639
Speaker 1: And by that point in time, it's like, you know,

316
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,200
Speaker 1: I need to get off of the road for a while. Yep. Right,

317
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:21,919
Speaker 1: And so that's how we kind of ended up at

318
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: the church. Yeah, that's awesome. The timing is is great.

319
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:26,159
Speaker 1: You know.

320
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 2: I went into ministry, never having a desire to go

321
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:34,360
Speaker 2: into ministry, but I was attending a church and God

322
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 2: used that church.

323
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 1: And in my family's life, yep.

324
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 2: And I ended up working there and that began, you know,

325
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,440
Speaker 2: twenty five year period of time working in ministry, right, But.

326
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was exactly that.

327
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:55,439
Speaker 2: How has How is your view on resiliency changed if

328
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,399
Speaker 2: you can pinpoint it from what you would have taught

329
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 2: and preached about and communicated to other people prior to

330
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 2: the health.

331
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: Things that you've gone through. Yeah, I think prior to

332
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,199
Speaker 1: the health stuff you went through, I think, or that

333
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,640
Speaker 1: I went through. I think in many ways I would

334
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 1: have taught and preached about resiliency as if it were

335
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: something that I didn't have as much control over as

336
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: I think I do now. You know, I feel like

337
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 1: so much of resiliency from where I'm at now is

338
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 1: really a choice. It's my decision to choose if I'm

339
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: going to be resilient. You know, And I don't mean

340
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: this silly, but I always tell people when I'm teaching

341
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: on resiliency now, especially when we talk about it from

342
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 1: the four step model, when we get to that point

343
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,360
Speaker 1: where we talk about intentional actions. Most of the time

344
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: within the church, you know, we will always say hopes

345
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 1: and prayers. I hope you get better, and I'm praying

346
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: for you to get better. But now, you know, looking

347
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 1: at it, I'm like, oh, there are decisions very purposeful

348
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: and intentional decision visions that I need to make in

349
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: my own life, in my own mindset and my actions

350
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: and the things I do and the people I engage.

351
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: To actually be a resilient person, much of it relies

352
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 1: on me, not on someone else, not on anyone else. Now,

353
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 1: I will say this my mom, not my dad, But

354
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: my mom was a resil very very resilient person and

355
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: very very tough. My mom's whole motto for life was

356
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 1: buck up, you're fine. Your arms. You know, yes your

357
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,119
Speaker 1: arm's broke, but buck up, you're alive, get up and

358
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: keep moving. And that kind of rubbed author's no doubt

359
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: my mom's played a big role in that.

360
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 2: So when you say you have to make a decision,

361
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 2: and I completely agree with that. I saw a quote

362
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 2: on your website from Victor Frankel. He's one of my favorite.

363
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 2: He's a you know, secular obviously maybe not obvious to

364
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 2: people haven't read him, but he's not Christian. But a

365
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 2: lot of what he would communicate as someone who lives

366
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 2: through the Holocaust and taught and wrote on these things

367
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: is you have a decision. No one can take that

368
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: away from you. You're not a victim is another way

369
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 2: to say that. So where's the intersection of faith and

370
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,439
Speaker 2: my power to choose as as Frankel would say, or

371
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: my responsibility to make that decision.

372
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 1: Because I agree with you.

373
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: I think in the church world, often, you know, the

374
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 2: Christian community would say I'm praying for you and those

375
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 2: kind of things, which is kind.

376
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: Of on a side.

377
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 2: Not Unchristian people or non Christian people. Sometimes we'll make

378
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 2: fun of that, right We'll see something crazy happen in

379
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 2: the world and they'll say, oh, the Christians are going

380
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 2: to offer thoughts and prayers, right, Well, you know, we're

381
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: commanded to pray. I believe there's power and prayer. I

382
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: believe God answers, prayer, all those things are real. But

383
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: we've also we've almost turned it into you know, a

384
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 2: bumper sticker or a magnet on your refrigerator.

385
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean anything. Yep, you're right.

386
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 2: So as you think about the two sides of that,

387
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: where is the intersection of I need to pray, I

388
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 2: need to have faith in God, I need to trust

389
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: God for whatever's going to happen, but I also need

390
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 2: to make some real decisions to get there.

391
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me personally, you know, and that's two things.

392
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: For me. One from a theological perspective, I have very

393
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: much my theological training, my theological education, and even my

394
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 1: understanding of how I work personally. Theologically, I need free will,

395
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: the opportunity to choose, and so I'm very much Wesleyan

396
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 1: in my theological views and perspectives. I believe that my

397
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: choices matter, and that those choices have power, and they

398
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: have consequences in my life and the lives of others.

399
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: But for me, from the experience perspective of this, the disciplines,

400
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: specifically my spiritual disciplines became incredibly important for me, and

401
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: I had done a couple of things before cancer that

402
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: really helped me to focus and lean into those spiritual

403
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 1: disciplines in ways that I had never done before. I

404
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: had always been as a pastor, as you well understand,

405
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: very committed to prayer, to time and the Word, to

406
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things, and that was always

407
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: very helpful for me. But when my sons we have

408
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: two boys, ones thirty two and one's twenty nine right now,

409
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: but when they were in high school, I was trying

410
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: to think of some kind of creative way to engage

411
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: them as a parent. And to give them something when

412
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: they graduated. And had heard this idea of parents choosing,

413
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, a life scripture for a child when they're dedicated,

414
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, we didn't do that, So what

415
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: am I going to do? And so what I chose

416
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: to do was I purchased Bibles for both of the

417
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: boys that were journal Bibles, so they would have on

418
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: the left side of the pass On the left side

419
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: of the Bible, it had the passage that we were reading,

420
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: and then on the right side it had a blank

421
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: sheet of paper that you could just write notes in

422
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff. And so I bought each

423
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: of the boys a Bible, and then I read through

424
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: that Bible very deliberately and very disciplined in a way

425
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: that it allowed me, so that I underlined, highlighted, circled things,

426
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: and wrote stuff in the margin that I thought was

427
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: really important for them to know and to understand, both

428
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: as their father and even from a theological perspective and

429
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: as a pastor. And some of it was, I'm sure wonderful,

430
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: and some of it was silly. You know. For instance,

431
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: in both of their Bibles, at the Book of Job

432
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: and at the Book of revelation, I wrote, call me,

433
00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: we need to talk before you read this book. And

434
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: so when I have a conversation. Yeah, when my youngest

435
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: one was a freshman in college, he called one day

436
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: said Dad, I said, I said, I got to the

437
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: Book of Job, and it said we need to talk

438
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: before I read the Book of Job. What do I

439
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 1: need to know? So I talked him through it. But

440
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: then the other thing is I did is I bought

441
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: a journal, an empty journal, for both of the boys,

442
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: and I wrote notes in it every day things that

443
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: I saw in them that I loved and appreciated, things

444
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: that they actually did each day that was like, hey,

445
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: I saw you treat your friend this way. I appreciated it,

446
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: so proud of you. And then about every maybe ten

447
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: or fifteen pages, I would write, call your mother every week.

448
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: You do not have to call me, but you do

449
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: have to call your mom. And then when they graduated

450
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: high school, I gave each of them that Bible in

451
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: that journal and said, this.

452
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Is how long did you work on that?

453
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: Each of those books, each of the Bibles, probably took

454
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: me eighteen months to two years, because I would be

455
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: real slow and real deliberate, whether it wasn't trying to

456
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: get it done fast. And my oldest son married a

457
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 1: young lady who's an attorney here in Oklahoma City, and

458
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: I gave her a Bible last Christmas that had taken

459
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: me a couple of years to work through, and said, hey,

460
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: here's this is yours. I gave each of the boys ones,

461
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: this is yours and said it was just to believe

462
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: it or not. It's like I've told them and told

463
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: many people. It was a gift for them, but it

464
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: was a gift for me as well, because it really

465
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: forced me to kind of say, Okay, I'm reading this,

466
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: but I'm not just reading this from my own discipline.

467
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm reading this as a gift to them, And so

468
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: it really was. It turned out to be one of

469
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: the best decisions I could have made, both for them

470
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: and for me. They still have their Bibles, they still

471
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: use their Bibles when they come to church with me,

472
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: they carry their Bibles, all those things, and so very

473
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: proud of the boys. But those were just kind of

474
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: faith decisions for me that were really important decisions that

475
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, that helped me not just in the moment,

476
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: but helped me in the future. And I had worked

477
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: through the Bible numerous times as a pastor, but it

478
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: just had much more meaning when I was like, Okay,

479
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm doing this for a relational purpose.

480
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: Yeah that's awesome. I'm gonna anyone watching this.

481
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're good.

482
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in my office and when I'm recording today

483
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: and I just wrote this down.

484
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: This morning.

485
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: I watched I watched a commencement address for this year

486
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: the University of North Carolina. Yeah, Eric Church Church, who

487
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: a lot of people would know him. I didn't know

488
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 2: him before because I'm not a country music person. If

489
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: you didn't watch his his commencement address, you need to

490
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: University of North Carolina, Eric Church. But he made this

491
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: statement and I wrote it down because I thought it

492
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: was good. He said, the people who tend to their

493
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: faith in ordinary times don't unwrap in extraordinary ones. That's right, Yeah, great,

494
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: way is such a great statement. The people who tend

495
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: to their faith in ordinary times don't unravel and extraordinary ones.

496
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: And man, hearing you talk about that, that to me

497
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: is that's what you were doing.

498
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: You didn't realize it.

499
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: I guess you weren't getting you weren't actively preparing for

500
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: extraordinary times.

501
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not sitting there saying, Hey, I'm going to

502
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: have cancer in a few years and a stroke in

503
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: another ten. That's not what you're doing, you know. But

504
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, hey, if I do this, I'm I'm planting

505
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: seeds that I'll see the fruit eventually.

506
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: So that takes us to a really important point when

507
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: we're talking about resilience, which is, you know, we would say,

508
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 2: as we're trying to help people through our programs in

509
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: that you need to predecide. So yep, these decisions ahead

510
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: of time, because when the difficulty comes, it will That's

511
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: not the time to figure.

512
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: Out who you are, what you exactly.

513
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: Can you Can you talk about that a little bit

514
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: because it sounds like you were actively doing that for

515
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: a very long time, and God was using that to

516
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: prepare you for what inevitably was going to call.

517
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I mean I think I'd spent years

518
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: before kind of wrestling with you know, not just not

519
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: just what I was supposed to do with my life,

520
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: but who I am with my life and what you know,

521
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: what I was called to be. One of the more

522
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: interesting moments. I tell people this all the time we

523
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: were living in San Diego, it would have been probably

524
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven or so, and I had been

525
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: pastoring a church that when I arrived was really struggling.

526
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: By the time five or six years later, was really

527
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: doing well. But because we were living in San Diego,

528
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: and you and Temecula understand this very well. You know,

529
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: it was never a question of do you like San Diego.

530
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: You love San Diego. The question is can you afford

531
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: San Diego? Go go? That is the question. And so

532
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: as a church that was growing, we were always trying

533
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: to hire new staff, and we would hire young staff

534
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: because you know they're young. You don't have to pay

535
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: them the same thing that you pay the guy who's fifty.

536
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: They're young and dun't yep. But I was always trying

537
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: to find them more money because I needed them to

538
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: be well taken care of. And we never had ugly

539
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: board meetings, never had ugly board meetings. They were never

540
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: stressful or tense unless we were talking about salaries because

541
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: we just never had the money. And so I had

542
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: come home, we had had a board meeting one night

543
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: and it had not gone well. I couldn't get the

544
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: money for the staff that I needed to get, and

545
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: so we were all wrestling with it and we would have.

546
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: Part of what I appreciate about these people is that

547
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: we could have very honest and open and frank and

548
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: direct conversations without anyone being upset or mad. You could

549
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: say what you needed to say, and nobody thought, oh,

550
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: you're being a jerk. You're just saying, hey, I need

551
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: to tell you this. And so they had told me, hey, Scott,

552
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: we do not have the money. We cannot pay them anymore.

553
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: And it got in a little tense and I went home.

554
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Got home that night about ten o'clock. The boys were

555
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: in elementary school, so they were already asleep, and my

556
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: wife Katie was in the bathroom washing her face, getting

557
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: ready for bed. And I came home and just collapsed

558
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: on the bed and was laying there watching the fans

559
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: spin above me, and thought, good night. This is it,

560
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: and said out loud to myself and to my wife

561
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: I had just turned forty, and said, really, this is it.

562
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: This is what I'm doing for the next twenty five years,

563
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: and said again out loud where she could hear it,

564
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: this is what we signed up for. And suddenly the

565
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: water shut off in the bathroom, and she came out

566
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: the door and she said, we didn't sign up for

567
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: any of this. You did. You wanted to be a pastor,

568
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: not us. And in that moment, as silly as it sounds,

569
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: my whole prayer for life changed radically. In that moment,

570
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, and I just started to

571
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: I just started to pray, you know, hey, God, put

572
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: me in the place where my life can make the

573
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: biggest difference. I know, I've thought for years, Hey, this

574
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: is what I want to do with my life. This

575
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: is what I want my life to look like, this

576
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: is the way my career is going to go. And

577
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: suddenly I just started praying, Hey, God, if it's mowing yards,

578
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: I'll mow yards. If the biggest difference is flipping Hamburgers,

579
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: I'll flip Hamburgers. If it's doing something different with my

580
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: life completely, that's fine. Just put me in the place

581
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: where my life can make the biggest difference. And it

582
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: was some of those kind of cathartic moments that I

583
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: think I really wrestled with before ever got cancer, so

584
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: that in a sense, you're like, Okay, I know what

585
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: I really value, I know what really matters to me.

586
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: I know who I am both in myself and in Christ.

587
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I know who I am as a father and as

588
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: a husband, and so I wasn't wrestling with those things

589
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: when I got to the cancer and the ugly stuff.

590
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: All of that stuff had really been wrestled with before

591
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: ever got there. That's so good.

592
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: If someone hears that, a lot of people would say, well,

593
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: I want to be in the place where God can

594
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: most effectively use me.

595
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: I want I want that. Yeah, where do I start?

596
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: How do I How do I get to the place

597
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: where I know that I'm exactly where God wants me

598
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: to be?

599
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thank you? Yeah for me, it was it's

600
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: always a process of just being open and willing for

601
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: the conversation. So there's never a moment where I say

602
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: I can say even now, I'll say, hey, this is

603
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: where I would like to be in four years. But

604
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: I also know it can change, and I'm not tied

605
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: into something where I say, hey, this is what I've

606
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: got to do and this is what I've got to be.

607
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: You know, I really believe that God could use me

608
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: in any number of ways. And so for a while

609
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: it was as a fundraiser. For a long time, it

610
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: was as a pastor and a chaplain, and now it's

611
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: as an author, it's as a speaker, but it's also

612
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: back in the church, and I'm okay with that. There's

613
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: not any portion of it where I've got some kind

614
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 1: of preconceived notion that says, hey, this is what I

615
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: want to be, or this is where I want to

616
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: be in ten years. I just don't live there. The

617
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: other thing that I think I really have leaned into

618
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: over the years is that idea of C. S. Lewis

619
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite authors, and if you remember

620
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: in Mere Christianity, there is a moment where C. S.

621
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: Lewis talks about the idea of good, better, and best,

622
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: and so in it, he says that most of us

623
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: choose to live in the good. This is good enough.

624
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: I'm in a good place. And then he says some

625
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: of us will move past good enough and on to better.

626
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm in a better place. I'm better than you are.

627
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm in a better place than I was before. Whatever

628
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: it is. But what we're really all invited to do

629
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: is to live into the best version of ourselves. And

630
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: so part of that for me is always about trying

631
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: to kind of come to that point and say, Okay,

632
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: what's best, what's the best choice in this moment, what's

633
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: the best thing I could do? Not just is this

634
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: a good decision or a bad decision. I need to

635
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: move between good and bad, black and white, and understand

636
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: that most of life is gray, and so if I'm

637
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: living in the gray, what's the best decision I can

638
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: make for me, my wife and my kids. And so

639
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: really I read that probably I read Mere Christianity. I

640
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: was probably twenty seven for the first time, and it

641
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: radically changed my view of how I lived my life

642
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: and just saying, hey, I'm going to live into the

643
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: best version of me. And at one point in time,

644
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: I thought, Hey, this is what God wants me to

645
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: do with my life. God wants me to be a

646
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 1: senior pastor of a large congregation. And then I said,

647
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: when I got to San Diego and was pastor in

648
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: the church that was growing, I thought, maybe that's not

649
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: what God wants me to do. And then when I

650
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: went to the UH University and got into higher education,

651
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, I'm going to get my doctorate and

652
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: I want to be a president of a liberal arts university.

653
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: And then eventually, you know, I was like, I don't

654
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: think that's really what God has in mind either, and

655
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: maybe what it is a guy just wants my life

656
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: to be the kind of life that makes a difference

657
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,959
Speaker 1: wherever I'm at, whatever the situation. In many ways, that's

658
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: the apostle Paul. Whether he's free or whether he's in jail,

659
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: whether he's in Rome, or whether he's in change, he

660
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: is always trying to make the best decision with his life,

661
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: even when you read Philippians, Philippians is all about joy

662
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: and Paul making the best decisions, you know. And so

663
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: it's really where I've tried to live, and I think

664
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: that's part of what's gotten me to that spot.

665
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: One of the struggles that I think is probably pretty

666
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: universal is that identity struggle. Oh yeah, it's finding my

667
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 2: identity in a job. It's finding my identity in a

668
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: vocation or a location, and or a relationship an individual. Yeah,

669
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: I think in order to live the life that you

670
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 2: just described, your identity has to be firmly not in

671
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: any of those things. How do you fight the natural

672
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 2: tendency to find your identity in a title, to find

673
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: it in a job or something like that. You know,

674
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: we talk about this a lot, kind of coming from

675
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: the military community or in the first responder community. I

676
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: find my identity in that job. Men in ministry. I

677
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: know a lot of pastors, a lot of pastors who

678
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: would secretly tell you, and I've been told kind of

679
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: on the side, I don't want to do this anymore.

680
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: I'm doing it because this is who I am. And

681
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: if I'm not this, then who am I? And that's

682
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 2: an identity issue. How do you keep your identity in

683
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: the right place so that you can follow God from

684
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: whatever it is, fundraising, pastoring, teaching, whatever it is.

685
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me, the that identity piece has

686
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: always been kind of the idea that I've had to

687
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: live purposely and intentionally into humility. When I allow my

688
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: ego to kind of take over, then it's suddenly, hey,

689
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do, this is who

690
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: I want to be, this is how I envision myself.

691
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: And then I've been very blessed to have some very

692
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: good people in my life, like Bob Golf who Bob

693
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: will say, you know, Scott, you could do so much

694
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: more away from the Nazarenes. You know, here's what you

695
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: could do with your life. And so Bob always kind

696
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: of has He's one of those people that has the

697
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: ability to meet you know you and say here's what

698
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: you could be, here's what you could do, which is

699
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: a wonderful thing, you know, for somebody in your life

700
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: who just kind of constantly says, hey, here's where you're headed.

701
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: When I thought, and in full fairness, when I was

702
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: thought I wanted to be a senior pastor of a

703
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: very large church, I had guys to the side telling

704
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: me here's where you're ed in the denomination, here's what

705
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: you need to do. And then when I thought I

706
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: wanted to be a university president, I had guys who

707
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: were presidents saying, hey, we need you to be a

708
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: president of one of our schools. Okay, I could do that,

709
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: but you know, at some point in time, I have

710
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: to step back and say, okay, as I always tell

711
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: my wife, is that God's idea for me? Or is

712
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: that my ego talking? And too often what happens is

713
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: my ego or our ego gets in our way, and

714
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: then my ego says this is what I want to

715
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: do and what I need to be able to step

716
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: back and say, okay, that's my ego. That was all

717
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: ego for me. So at some level it's like, hey,

718
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have to be those things. All

719
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: I've got to do is be faithful to my wife,

720
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: my God, my church, my kids. I don't need to

721
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: be something else, be the best version of me and

722
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: be faithful to the people that I'm called to and

723
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: really relationship.

724
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good. There are a lot of things

725
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 2: I'd like to follow up on. I'll skip over most

726
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 2: of You said so many good things there. As a leader,

727
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 2: and I'll say specifically as a leader in your home,

728
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: you have a wife, you have a family, You have

729
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: people that you're leading, and you're leading them from one

730
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: location to another, from one vocation to another.

731
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: You know, there's the.

732
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: Security issues that are wrapped up in all of that,

733
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: you know, and you're leading through that, and then you

734
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 2: hit you know, kind of a physical crisis. Yeah, and

735
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 2: you have to continue to lead through that while also

736
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: dealing with that. And I would say, to some degree

737
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: suffering through that. How do you lead through? Lead your family?

738
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: Now is who I'm speaking specifically of. How do you

739
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: lead your family the people are closest to you through

740
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: these transitions, good transitions, bad transitions.

741
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: You've done it all.

742
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: It sounds like one good place to another good place

743
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: through some very difficult things. How do you continue to

744
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: lead through all of that.

745
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been very fortunate each time that we've transitioned,

746
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: we've been more like a cat and managed to land

747
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: on our feet, you know, not just on our backs.

748
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's been very helpful. I think one of

749
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: the things that both my wife and I are very

750
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: good at is we tend to be very positive people.

751
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: We were both extroverted, so we love people, but both

752
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: of us love a good party. Nothing better than a

753
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: good party and lots of fun. But we both tend

754
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: to be very positive and both tend to believe, you know,

755
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: even when life gets bad, we'll figure something out. We'll

756
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: find a way through it. And so even when I

757
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: had cancer, we kind of had two mottos that we

758
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: lived into. One of them started at the church in

759
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: San Diego. It was a church, like I said that

760
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: when I arrived, was struggling, was in a really bad

761
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: financial place, financial crisis. And I kept saying to them

762
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: and would say to them on a pretty consistent basis,

763
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: our best days are still in front of us. So

764
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: often we as people and we as institutions, and we

765
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: as leaders want to try to take people back. Oh

766
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: remember when the good old days, the glory days, whatever

767
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: it is. And at some level, I've got to tell

768
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: myself and tell the people I'm leading, the best days

769
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: are still in front of us. They're not behind us.

770
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: We've still got good days in front of us. The

771
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: other thing that I constantly would say, through the cancer

772
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: stuff and even the stroke stuff, was give me a moment,

773
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: I'll get up. I'll figure it out. We always figure

774
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: it out. I'll get up, will be okay. And so

775
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: sometimes one of the disciplines that I had committed myself

776
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: to in cancer was that we were going to keep exercising.

777
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: A love CrossFit. I'll spend anywhere between three to six

778
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: days a week, and the CrossFit Jim doing CrossFit, but

779
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: when you had chemo, there's no CrossFit when you're doing chemo.

780
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: But we would get out and I'd say, I still

781
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: want to walk a mile every day just to help

782
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: keep my system moving, to get all the drugs out

783
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: of my system as fast as I could. And more

784
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: than once we would get in middleway through the walk,

785
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: i'd have the pump on my chest because they were

786
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: still pumping chemo drugs in my chest even after I'd

787
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: gotten out of the chair and we would be walking

788
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 1: and I'd tell Katie, hey, I've got to sit down

789
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: just right here on this curve. Let me sit down

790
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: for a minute. Yeah, And she'd say she'd stand there

791
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: with me for a few moments. When I was sitting

792
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: on the curb and said you need to go get

793
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: the car, I'm like, no, no, no, I'll be okay.

794
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: You sure you're okay. I'll get up. I always get up.

795
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: I may have to throw up in these people's yard

796
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 1: here in a second, but that's okay, and I still

797
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: be all right. Yeah, I threw up in more than

798
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: one yard. I think the neighbors thought I was drunk.

799
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not drunk. I have chemo, dude, I'm sick.

800
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: But it's kind of I think part of it. You know,

801
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: there's some things that we always tell ourselves, and some

802
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: people like to say, hey, you know, I'm not that

803
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: good or I'm not that capable, or I'm not that talented,

804
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: or I'm not this, or I'm not that. And I

805
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: think part of what we have to be able to

806
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: convince ourselves in our mind both in our spirit and

807
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: our mindset the way we view things is I can

808
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: do this. I can figure this out, I can work

809
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: through this. It doesn't mean that we don't ask for help,

810
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: but it does mean that we don't live in a

811
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: view or a mindset that is negative or somehow demeaning

812
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: or belittling, but instead one that somehow sees the best

813
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: in others and sees the potential in others and the

814
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: best and the potential in ourselves. Some of that as ownership.

815
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: You know, one of my favorite stories in faith is

816
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: in Genesis chapter two, when the snake shows up in

817
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: the garden, and you know, Adam and Eve both eat

818
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: from the tree of life and death and life suddenly

819
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: changes radically, and then they find themselves in the garden.

820
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: Adam finds himself in the garden walking in the cool

821
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: of the night, and God shows up and notices immediately

822
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: that something's wrong and ask him what's the deal is,

823
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: And Adam immediately says, that woman that you gave me.

824
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: It's like, dude, this isn't on the woman or on God,

825
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: this is on you. Yeah, You've got to own it.

826
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: And so at some level, I think when we find

827
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: ourselves in the middle of crisis, we have to own

828
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: our role in the crisis and in the decision. So like,

829
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: for instance, I tell everybody both cancer and a stroke

830
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: at some level, that's on me. So I had stage

831
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: three colo rectal cancer. It wasn't diagnosed till I was

832
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: fifty five. I should have gone and gotten a colonoscopy

833
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: at fifty just like the physicians, everybody he told me.

834
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: I was supposed to my boss, my wife, my friends,

835
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: everybody said, go get it. It's easy. It's not that

836
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: big of a deal. And because I was traveling all

837
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: the time, I was easy to push it and just

838
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: kind of ignore it. And then in at fifty five

839
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, I went to see my father

840
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: in law, who was my who it is still my

841
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: primary physician, because I had tightness in my back from

842
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: traveling all the time, and said to him, Hey, Paul,

843
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: I just need something to loosen up my back. He said, okay,

844
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: we can fix that. And I said, and by the way,

845
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: I have blood in my stool, both light and dark.

846
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 1: He said, by the way, yeah, He's like, that's not good.

847
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: But your health's always normal. Yeah, he said, your numbers

848
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: are always great. Maybe it's just a hemorrhoid. Well, lo

849
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: and behold it was cancer. But like I always tell anybody,

850
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: that's not cancer's fault. Had I gone in at fifty,

851
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: it might have been a poll up. It would have

852
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: been a simple thing. They could have taken care of it,

853
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: and I would have never had stage three cancer. So

854
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: that's on me, one hundred percent on me. That's not

855
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: my wife's fault, my boss's fault, my physician's fault. That's

856
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: all on me. So I own my cancer. You know

857
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: my friends who smoke all the time and they get

858
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: lung cancer and say, I don't know how this happened.

859
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: What do you mean you don't know how does this happen?

860
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: You're an idiot? Yeah? Yeah, take responsibility. Yeah.

861
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 2: I have a friend who says, if only ten percent

862
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: of it is your fault, you need to be one

863
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: hundred percent responsible for that ten percent.

864
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

865
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 2: Well I love that because's like, it's not all mine,

866
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 2: but the part that is mine I need be responsible for.

867
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that's a great thing about the

868
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: military gang is that you guys tend to own it

869
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: better than most people. You know, most of us civilians

870
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: like to blame it on everybody else. It's the government's fault,

871
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: it's you know, my wife's fault. It's my kid's fault,

872
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: it's my job's fault. But at some level it's really

873
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: on me. If it's ten percent, like you said, I

874
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: need to own one hundred percent of the ten percent.

875
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that that taking responsibility for it. You know,

876
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: you said you take responsibility for your cancer. That's not

877
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: to feel bad, No, it's it's because that's I mean,

878
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: really that's the path to just the reality for active decisions,

879
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: right and yeah, and not being a victim, I.

880
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: Guess is part of the healing process if you ask me,

881
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: is just the ability. I mean, whether it's my personal

882
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: health or it's my relational health. You know, it's like

883
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: you said, I've got to own the part of this

884
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: where I'm not doing well as a husband, or as

885
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: a father, or as an employee, whatever it is, it's

886
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: still on me. It's good.

887
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: You have done this, and I've seen a lot of

888
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: people do this over the years. You have allowed your story,

889
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: your struggle, your difficulty to be redeemed. Yeah, for the

890
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: benefit of other people. So you've taken that, You've learned

891
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: through it, and now you know you've written about it,

892
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: you talk about it, you speak about it for the

893
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: benefit of others. How important is it for us to

894
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: take those dark moments in our lives and use them

895
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: for the benefit of other people.

896
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't want to do that,

897
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: you know. So for instance, we have a very dear friend,

898
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: my wife and I. He got stage one pancreatic cancer

899
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 1: or prostate cancer pardon me, prostate cancer and never told

900
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: a soul. His physician and his wife were the only

901
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: people that he ever told until he was way past it.

902
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: And I'm like, dude, you can't do that. You've got

903
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: to be honest about it. And he's like, yeah, I

904
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: didn't want to tell anybody. I didn't want to, you know,

905
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to share it. But for my wife

906
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: and I, we are not only party people, we are

907
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: very very transparent people. So we just kind of said, hey,

908
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: we need everybody we have praying for us and everybody

909
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: cheering for us, so we're just gonna be honest about it.

910
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: We've got I got cancer, you know, it is what

911
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: it is. The other thing that we chose to do

912
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: with it, which I think what's very helpful for us.

913
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: We found ways to laugh about all of it. So

914
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: even when I had I had to have a colonoscopy

915
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: bag for four months midway through the cancer. We named

916
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: the bag. You know, we made fun of it. I

917
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: named the bag crap bag, and we just everybody like,

918
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: how's crap bag today? I like crap bags with me,

919
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: and we just made fun of it. And so, believe

920
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: it or not, I think not everybody sees it this way,

921
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: but in the ugliest moments of life, there is a

922
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: lot of humor. You just have to kind of find

923
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: it and name it and laugh about it. And so

924
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: we've done that with all of it, whether it was

925
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: the stroke or whether it was cancer or whatever it is.

926
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: I've got stories that my wife would say, you can't

927
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: tell that story, it's inappropriate, but it was funny stuff

928
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: in regards to both of those things, where you're like, hey,

929
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: that's just it's part of life. So let's enjoy it,

930
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: let's laugh about it, let's you know, own it, and

931
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: let's just see you know. I think part of that

932
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: is by being transparent about it and inviting other people

933
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: into the journey with you. If you handle the stress

934
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 1: and the challenges and the difficulties, well, it helps them

935
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: to do it as well. There's something about you know,

936
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: something winsome about someone who somehow just kind of my

937
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: friend Bob Goff, who laughs about everything, whether it's good

938
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: or bad or whatever's going on. It's very winsome to

939
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: spend time with Bob because even if we're in a

940
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: car and we have a wreck, Bob's going to find

941
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: something funny in it. It's like, this is great, and

942
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: then write a book about it. Yeah, and then write

943
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: a book about it and make a million dollars off

944
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, it's just Bob, But I think

945
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: there is something very important about being able to kind

946
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: of invite people into that journey of struggle and challenge,

947
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: because it helps us to have people journey with us,

948
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: but it also helps them to know that there's a

949
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: path to overcoming those challenges and struggles. That's good.

950
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: When you were talking about the conversation with your father

951
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: in law about you know, kind of those three things

952
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: that he told you, and you talked about how the

953
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: stroke really the recovery there was was more mental than

954
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it was brutal. What what does that mean? Exactly?

955
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: It was more mental than physical, And you know, how

956
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: do you translate that into resilience and working through kind

957
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: of brokenness?

958
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: And hurt. Yeah, you know the physical side of the

959
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: cancer journey is really intense. I mean there's no doubt

960
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, you're sick, Sure, you're in pain

961
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 1: at times, you're constantly nauseated. Your body's not cooperating with you.

962
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: You know, things are moving.

963
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: Your neighbors lawns, Yeah, moving all the Yeah, things are

964
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: moving through way too fast.

965
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: I mean yeah. I always would tell hey, guys, we've

966
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: got to travel in the right lane close to the

967
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: exit because I may need to go to the bathroom

968
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: at any moment, right, And so they would, you know,

969
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: they all laughed about it. But the stroke piece of

970
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: it is so intense. In your mind, your mind doesn't

971
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: work the same way that it always did before. So,

972
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: for instance, a couple things I've had to very very

973
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: very intentionally work to make sure that I stay positive

974
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 1: post stroke. It's real easy to kind of say, ah,

975
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, let people irritate you. Things that never irritated

976
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,479
Speaker 1: you before suddenly irritate you now. One of the most

977
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: interesting things for me, not so much now, but initially,

978
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: loud noises and lights, I mean could just kind of

979
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: throw me into what they call mind flooding, where just

980
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: too much stuff was moving through it once and so

981
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: even to now, you know, every once in a while,

982
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 1: if I get in a real loud situation, my wife

983
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: will tell you that I can see your mind just

984
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: start to shut off, your eyes just glaze over. And

985
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: so I have to work pretty hard intentionally to engage,

986
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: you know, and to stay connected in all of it,

987
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: because it really is, at least the stroke stuff for me.

988
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: I know, people have physical, physical deficiencies following the stroke.

989
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: I didn't have any physical deficiencies. All of mine was

990
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 1: simply in the head, not being able to sleep at night,

991
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, suddenly what they called mind flooding, where my

992
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,919
Speaker 1: mind just would not stop working, like okay, I've got

993
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: to find a way to get my mind to shut off.

994
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 1: And so some of what I started to do even

995
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: right post stroke is I told my office one World

996
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: Health that I was working for. I said to them, hey,

997
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: I am no longer answering the phone past seven seven pm.

998
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: If you need to get a hold of me, you

999
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: know Katie's phone number. If there's an emergency, you just

1000
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: call her or otherwise. I don't answer the phone. I

1001
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: don't look at the phone. I don't care about the phone.

1002
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: Because it would just force my mind to start moving

1003
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, Okay, I got to get it

1004
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: to shut down. The other thing I did in both

1005
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: situations was I really leaned into people that I knew

1006
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: that had been down the path before. You know, I

1007
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: have a friend in Dallas who's early forties had had

1008
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: a stroke in his late thirties, and so I would

1009
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: talk to him every once in a while and just say, Okay, Brooks,

1010
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: here's what I'm experiencing. And he would say, yeah, here's

1011
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: what's happening through all this. When I got cancer, I

1012
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 1: had a young lady that I connected with. She's about

1013
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: ten years younger than me. We connected through a mutual

1014
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: friend and she was going through the same type of

1015
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: cancer and we would talk almost weekly just because I

1016
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: would tell her. She would call and she say, Okay,

1017
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: what's happening and what are you experiencing. I'm getting ready

1018
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: to experience this next week. Tell me what I'm going

1019
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: to do counter And I would tell her, Hey, here's

1020
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, you're going to have this appointment, this is

1021
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: what you need to do, and this is what they'll

1022
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: tell you. But here's the important stuff to remember with it.

1023
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: And so some level, you know that that community of

1024
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: people that journey with you through all of it really

1025
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: helped to get you through the resiliency piece of it.

1026
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: But that resiliency, I think you know, that's I think

1027
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: that's part of why we really leaned into the mind

1028
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: component of it, was that the mind in resiliency is

1029
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: incredibly important because it's very easy to find yourself defeated, down, discouraged, angry, frustrated,

1030
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: you name it. And so some ability to lean into

1031
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: that mindset and really kind of discipline yourself and how

1032
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: you approach your mindset it was transformative for me. Yeah.

1033
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people defeat themselves. Yeah

1034
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: they could get better, they could move forward, but they

1035
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,240
Speaker 2: just they don't.

1036
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: They don't. Yeah, no, but yeah, you're exactly right. I mean,

1037
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: you're even your idea a few weeks ago when we

1038
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: were talking about it, the March or Die piece, you know, which, Hey,

1039
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna keep moving, we keep pick that next step, Yeah,

1040
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: one more step. We can keep going, we can pick

1041
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: up and we can keep rolling forward. I mean, that's

1042
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: that's a big part of it, is that part of

1043
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: you that just says, hey, I can get past this,

1044
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: I'll win this. I can beat this, you know.

1045
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: Man, Scott, I appreciate the conversation. I think we need

1046
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: to have another one. I've got a lot of other

1047
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: questions rolling around in my head.

1048
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: But we got a lot of things to talk about. Jeremy.

1049
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: There's there's a lot. There's a lot here and I

1050
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: think a lot of it. Man's so helpful. Uh, And

1051
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: the perspective is great. Just wrote a book. You have

1052
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: a website, a lot of I mean, you have a

1053
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: lot of content that you push out. Where can people

1054
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: find the book? Find your website, find find you and

1055
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: and yeah, what you're doing.

1056
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: The book is Choose your Best and you can find

1057
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 1: it on Amazon. If you just type in choose your Best,

1058
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: it'll pop up. I'm the author, doctor Scott A. Peterson.

1059
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: My father in law, Paul Rothwell, helped me write it.

1060
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: He's the physician, and so he wrote small pieces of

1061
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: it and kind of helps me get some of it

1062
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: organized and other things. Has been great. We have a

1063
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: workbook that goes to print tomorrow that will be a

1064
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: part of it. And then part of what we hope

1065
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: to do is to be able to push out workshops

1066
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: both with churches, with nonprofits, with businesses, hospitals, and schools

1067
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: and just teaching and talking about resiliency. You can find

1068
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: out more information about me and the workshops at doctor

1069
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: Scottapeterson dot com and the doctor is d R not

1070
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: d O C T O R d R Scott s

1071
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: C O T T A Peterson P E T E

1072
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: R so so in dot com and that'll get you

1073
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 1: where we're at. But would love to kind of keep

1074
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: talking with other people. I'm always free to give out

1075
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: my email address, S Peterson three ten at gmail dot com.

1076
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: You can reach out to me or call me. I

1077
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: have people that text me all the time. My phone

1078
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: number is eight four three two seven six eighty seventy nine.

1079
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: I'll give out anything but my address. I don't want

1080
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: people showing up at my doorstep unannounced. But you can

1081
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: call me anytime night or day. You're in the state

1082
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma. But it's a big state, it's a big stag.

1083
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know we would love to talk with

1084
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: folks about it.

1085
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, and thank you for making

1086
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 2: yourself available and for being transparent. There are a lot

1087
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: of people that struggle, and a lot of people struggle,

1088
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: I think unfortunately very silently yeah, and very alone.

1089
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: And this is super helpful. No, that's what we find people,

1090
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: whether it's mental or physical, or emotional or spiritual, they

1091
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: just tend to want to stay quiet about it and

1092
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: not tell anybody it. Were like, hey, let's just be

1093
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: honest about it. That's where I'm at. So, Jeremy, I

1094
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: so appreciate you, friend, well, thank you, thank you for

1095
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: the conversation. Yep. I look forward to meeting you someday

1096
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: in person, not just virtually, but in person and shake it.

1097
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm going to to figure it out.

1098
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: Now that we've got the work book getting ready to

1099
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: go to print. As soon as we get copies of it,

1100
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you a copy of the workbook in

1101
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: the book. Okay, buddy, awesome, appreciate it, sure, appreciate it.

1102
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: You take care, yes, sir, take care. Appreciate friends.

1103
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 2: Bye bye, all right, Doctor Scott Peterson, and love that conversation.

1104
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: There's so much there, and man, it was one of

1105
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: those conversations you listened to it, you heard it. But

1106
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 2: after everything he said, there would be five follow up

1107
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 2: questions in my mind, So we need to do this again.

1108
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: I definitely check out his website. Doctor Scott A. Peterson

1109
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: and a lot of good content there. You can get

1110
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: his book there, and he has a lot of other

1111
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: stuff there as well that you need to check out.

1112
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: Thank you for doing that. If you haven't yet subscribed,

1113
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: go ahead and do that. I really appreciate you listening

1114
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 2: and or watching, and we will talk to you next time.