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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hi there, and welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamie Hampton and today I'm so excited to be

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Speaker 2: here with Willow Weston. Willow is an author, a speaker,

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Speaker 2: a podcast host, and the founder of Collide, which is

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Speaker 2: a ministry impacting women nationwide. She has had decades of

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Speaker 2: experience bringing passion and truth and sharing her journey of

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Speaker 2: pain transparently to encourage others to just invite Jesus into

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Speaker 2: their brokenness and be healed as a result. Willow, thank

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Speaker 2: you for doing that. I know that's not easy, So

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. And I'm just

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Speaker 2: so excited to get to talk with you about your

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Speaker 2: new book, your brand new book, Collide, Running into Healing

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Speaker 2: when life hands you hurt. So thank thank you for

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Speaker 2: having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for having me, Jamie. I love what you are

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Speaker 1: about in what you do, and so this is just

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Speaker 1: a blessing for me too.

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Speaker 2: Well. Thanks. Well, before we get into your book and

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Speaker 2: your ministry and your message, we like to ask all

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Speaker 2: of our guests what is your favorite prayer closet? Like

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Speaker 2: in air quotes, where do you like to go to

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Speaker 2: the God? It could be crazy, off the wall, it

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Speaker 2: could be very you know, traditional.

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Speaker 1: It's not a closet. I'll tell you that. Every morning,

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Speaker 1: I think Rob and I have been married twenty seven

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Speaker 1: and a half years, and we literally thank you. We've

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Speaker 1: literally done this every day since we've been married. But

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Speaker 1: I have my place on the couch and the sectional,

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Speaker 1: and he has his on the other side, and he

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Speaker 1: makes coffee and he walks over and he hands me

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Speaker 1: my coffee, and he goes and reads and prays, and

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Speaker 1: I read and pray, and not in a religious way,

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Speaker 1: but it's almost to the point where I really don't

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Speaker 1: schedule things early in the morning. I don't do workouts

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Speaker 1: early in the morning. I don't do any work meetings

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Speaker 1: early in the morning because I'm actually grumpy if I

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Speaker 1: don't have my little like on that corner of the sectional.

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Speaker 1: And I'm becoming that old lady where you look at

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Speaker 1: the couch and it's like indented on that side of

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Speaker 1: the couch, because that's like my little spot every morning.

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Speaker 1: But I just need it, like I need that time

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Speaker 1: with the Lord to center my day. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not a closet, but it definitely is with coffee.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll drink coffee and kind of sit there

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Speaker 1: before I spend time reading and praying, because I make

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Speaker 1: a joke that I'm not sure even Jesus wants to

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Speaker 1: hang out with me before I have my coffee. It

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Speaker 1: is my place where I hang out with God every morning.

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Speaker 2: I love that. And in like I don't know how

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Speaker 2: long we've been podcasting seven eight, nine years, no one

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Speaker 2: has ever talked about sitting with their spouse. I've never

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Speaker 2: had anyone bring that into the picture. And I love that.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, just that. Yeah, that's that is really good.

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Speaker 2: Routines aren't easy, and for that length of time, for

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Speaker 2: that to be your routine consistently, that's incredible.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't we don't read the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and we don't even often pray with each other. I

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Speaker 1: mean we do in other times, but in the morning

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Speaker 1: we're just kind of our bodies are like in the

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Speaker 1: same room, but we're connecting with God alone. But I

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Speaker 1: actually tell him, we joke around about this that when

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Speaker 1: one of us passes away, I think the hardest moment

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Speaker 1: of each day will be in the morning, because we

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Speaker 1: just have this time that we set aside every morning,

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Speaker 1: and it's just always been and I think the day

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Speaker 1: that he's not handing me my coffee cup or the

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Speaker 1: day that I'm not there across from him will be

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Speaker 1: hard to It's just become a part of our lives,

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Speaker 1: like we just do it every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, that's amazing. That's kind of like the

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Speaker 2: epitome of accountability for you guys to do that and

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Speaker 2: you're not studying the same thing, you're not crying together necessarily,

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Speaker 2: but you're just kind of being present. I love it. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Willow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So tell us about your new book. So, how

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Speaker 2: did your new book Collide come about? What brought it

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Speaker 2: into being your book based?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I always thought I would write a book

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Speaker 1: for like the last twenty some years or something, and

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Speaker 1: I think I thought I would put this book out

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Speaker 1: a lot earlier than I have. And now I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it and seeing that the Lord wanted me to

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Speaker 1: live more of the story that was going to be

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Speaker 1: put in the book than I had when I first

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Speaker 1: got this vision, which has been kind of interesting. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean probably, you know, nineteen years ago or something,

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Speaker 1: I had had my second kiddo, Bella, and I had Aiden,

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Speaker 1: and I had Bella and my mom moved into town

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Speaker 1: to kind of be super grandma. And I hadn't lived

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Speaker 1: with my mom since I was fifteen years old. I

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Speaker 1: had another family that had to take me in in

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Speaker 1: high school and my mom hat and I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of baggage, a lot of wounds. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of addiction and abandonment and just issues. And so

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Speaker 1: I'd met Jesus when I was twenty one, grew up

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Speaker 1: in an irreligious home, no church, had this radical conversion,

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Speaker 1: had spent a lot of time giving God my heartache

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Speaker 1: and my pain. But when my mom moved into town

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Speaker 1: and knocked on my door totally ordinary, like a mom

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Speaker 1: would popped by on a Wednesday, and I went to

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Speaker 1: go see who was at the door, and I saw her,

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Speaker 1: and I just flipped out, and I ran upstairs and

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Speaker 1: I hid in a closet with Bella because I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to answer the door. I didn't want to let

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Speaker 1: my mom in. And it was like, oh, my childhood

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Speaker 1: pain was just came flooding forward. And I had this

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Speaker 1: profound moment in that closet where so apparently I don't

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Speaker 1: have a prayer closet, Jamie, I have a pain closet.

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Speaker 1: But I'm in that closet, and God said, Willow, I've

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Speaker 1: done a lot of healing in your life, but there's

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Speaker 1: more that needs to be done, and you need to

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Speaker 1: walk out and you need to get some help. And

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Speaker 1: I remember just going wow, like I could easily just

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Speaker 1: walk out and not tell anyone that I'm not doing well,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I knew I needed help. And I

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Speaker 1: ended up in a Christian counseling office within a week

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Speaker 1: or two. And immediately the Christian councilor said, you need

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Speaker 1: to tell your mom you could only spend thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: a week with her. And I just the only way

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Speaker 1: I can explain it, Jamie, is like the counselor came

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Speaker 1: in the room, the Holy Spirit came in the room,

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Speaker 1: and I just yelled, No, that is not what I

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Speaker 1: need to do. I need to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: love the person who wounded me the most, that's my mom.

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Speaker 1: And I just started saying all the stuff that I'd

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Speaker 1: never heard before. The counselor wasn't saying anything. I just

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Speaker 1: was like I was born into ad, I collided with wounds.

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Speaker 1: I ran into my mother's wounds. She never got healing

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Speaker 1: for her wounds, and she wounded me, and now I

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Speaker 1: might wound my daughter. I need God to heal me.

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Speaker 1: We're all just walking around colliding with each other and

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Speaker 1: wounding each other, and we're in need of a new

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Speaker 1: kind of collision. And when I see Jesus in the

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Speaker 1: New Testament, he collides with people makes them more whole

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Speaker 1: and broken. And if we can become more whole, then

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Speaker 1: maybe when we run into wounded people, we can bring

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Speaker 1: healing instead of pain. And so I just was having

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Speaker 1: this epiphany and I paid the ladyier eighty five bucks,

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Speaker 1: and I heard God say as I was walking to

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Speaker 1: my car, you're going to do something with those words

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Speaker 1: wounded collision. And so that was, you know, my daughter's

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Speaker 1: twenty now, So that was what nineteen years ago that

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Speaker 1: I felt like the Lord gave me this message and

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Speaker 1: I was going to do something with it. But I

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Speaker 1: also was just hiding in a closet with my kid

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Speaker 1: and felt a mess, so I wasn't looking to like

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Speaker 1: do a thing. And then within weeks this call of

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Speaker 1: ased girl asked me to mentor her and I said yes,

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Speaker 1: I said, we could look at Jesus in the New

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Speaker 1: Testament colliding with wounded people and how he heals them.

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Speaker 1: And she said, can I bring some friends? And I

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Speaker 1: thought she'd bring four. She brought twenty five. And then

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Speaker 1: I just God threw this ministry into We minister now

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Speaker 1: to thousands of people a year, where we do conferences

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Speaker 1: and we have resources and Bible study books and a

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Speaker 1: podcasting and counseling for all this stuff. I joke around, Lord,

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Speaker 1: I did not apply for this job, but he just

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Speaker 1: unfolded this ministry. And the whole time, I was also

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Speaker 1: raising my kids and I was like still needing him

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Speaker 1: to heal me. But the more I was going to

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Speaker 1: him to heal me, he was also using my pain

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Speaker 1: to help heal others. And he was writing this story

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Speaker 1: that eventually would unfold and it would become time to

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Speaker 1: tell it in a book. And so I finally released

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Speaker 1: this book called Collide, Running into Healing when Life Hands

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Speaker 1: to Hurt. And yeah, that's that's the short version of

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Speaker 1: what the last twenty years has looked like, Damie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm still stuck back in the counseling office

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Speaker 2: as a people pleaser. I'm just like in awe of

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Speaker 2: your ability to say no and to hear from the

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Speaker 2: Lord and can you just talk about that, because counseling

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Speaker 2: is important. I think it's I believe in counseling. I

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Speaker 2: think it's great. But some of God's wisdom goes against

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Speaker 2: the world's wisdom or even a Christian counselor's wisdom. Can

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Speaker 2: you talk about that? I think as Christian women we

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Speaker 2: have to have the conversation about when do we listen

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Speaker 2: to the experts air quotes, when do we listen to

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Speaker 2: what we believe God is telling us? And how do

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Speaker 2: we know if that's how do we know the difference?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a good question and honestly not one

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Speaker 1: that people have asked me before. I want to say

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Speaker 1: right up front that I ended up going to a

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Speaker 1: different therapist after that therapist, and I was seeking counsel

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Speaker 1: from not only my husband, but my close Christian friends,

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Speaker 1: my pastors and mentors in my life. So I wasn't

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Speaker 1: sort of being reckless with like godly counsel by any means.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not really the type to like yell at

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Speaker 1: a counselor. In fact, I've been way more amicable and

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Speaker 1: open to things. It was such a clear thing that

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Speaker 1: the spirit was saying to me. It was so clear

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Speaker 1: that that's what I mean. It was almost like someone

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Speaker 1: else stepped into the room. I never had had that

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Speaker 1: experience like that before, and I just knew. It's not

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Speaker 1: that I don't think boundaries are absolutely necessary in relationship,

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Speaker 1: and I've had to have plenty of boundaries with my mom.

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Speaker 1: But God was actually challenging me into something more than boundaries.

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Speaker 1: He was actually challenging me in saying, Willow, you need

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Speaker 1: to get healings you don't hurt your daughter. But also

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Speaker 1: I want to heal you in such a way that

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Speaker 1: you actually bring healing to your mom instead of more pain,

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Speaker 1: because your absence from your mom's life and you pushing

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Speaker 1: her away and you not spending time with her is

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Speaker 1: not going to help her to know me. Wow, I

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Speaker 1: actually want you to figure out how to love her

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Speaker 1: who wounded you the most, the way I love the

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Speaker 1: people who've wounded me the most. That was I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what I knew. It was God, because I would

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Speaker 1: never chose that in my own flesh. I would have

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Speaker 1: never been like that. Sounds like a fun assignment. I've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for years to have a counselor prescribed me

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Speaker 1: to push my mom out of my life. That would

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Speaker 1: be have been so much easier. She was a terrible

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Speaker 1: alcoholic and so hard to deal with and I hated

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Speaker 1: being around her. It would have Oh, this is counselor approved, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to spend very much time with you.

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Speaker 1: So I knew this isn't something like go to Hawaii

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Speaker 1: and you know, lay on the beach for three months

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Speaker 1: and drink pini clattas like I was being given a

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Speaker 1: challenge by God. That sounded like him. It sounded like him, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: Like I think if you spend time looking at the

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Speaker 1: life of Jesus, when you hear him, it sounds like him.

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Speaker 1: It's like he's actually saying, like, I gave up my

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Speaker 1: life for people who wounded me and betrayed me and

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Speaker 1: hurt me and turned their backs on me, and I'm

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Speaker 1: asking you to figure out how to get so whole

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Speaker 1: in me that you're able to do that. So it

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Speaker 1: definitely didn't feel like something I would make up in

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Speaker 1: my own head because it wasn't going to be easy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that, And you know, I'm thinking of

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Speaker 2: those day after day of sitting there reading the book,

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Speaker 2: being in God's word, talking to him. That is the

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Speaker 2: foundation that allowed you to have that experience and say, oh, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is God, this is this is what he sounds like.

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Speaker 2: This is in line, like complete alignment with what he says.

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Speaker 2: So what if someone is listening right now, I'm throwing

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Speaker 2: you some curveballs. I didn't send these questions over you

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Speaker 2: ahead of my love.

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Speaker 1: Curve ballsy, let's sell with this spirit.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, like the person listening right now who

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Speaker 2: has a toxic relationship or who has had in the

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Speaker 2: past a toxic relationship, and that person's trying to come

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Speaker 2: back in or whatever, what would you say are the

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Speaker 2: steps of discernment? Because for some people the right answer

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Speaker 2: might be thirty minutes a day. You're not saying that

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Speaker 2: you're hearing from God that that wasn't correct, isn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: someone else's correct. And I think that's important. So, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing you talk about asking from multiple different sources

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Speaker 2: of godly counsel, looking at at God's word. But what

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Speaker 2: is like a first step for someone who's just thinking,

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Speaker 2: what do I even do? Do I set the boundary?

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Speaker 2: Do I where do I even go to seek healing?

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Speaker 2: How do I even do this?

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Speaker 1: I love this conversation because I think we absolutely have

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Speaker 1: to say that there's not actually a formula. I can't

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Speaker 1: answer you and give you a formula because if I

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Speaker 1: sat down with each one of your listeners and I

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Speaker 1: heard their story, and I heard the intricacies of their pain,

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Speaker 1: and I heard the way they feel burdened, how much

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Speaker 1: they love the person who hurt them, but how hurtful

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Speaker 1: it is. And if if I got to process with them,

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Speaker 1: I might have specific a specific sense of intuition or

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Speaker 1: discernment that I could potentially offer them. But I can't

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Speaker 1: actually give a formula because there have been times in

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Speaker 1: my life where I had to lay out some pretty

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Speaker 1: serious boundaries with my mom when it had to do

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Speaker 1: with her time with my children. And that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that I wasn't loving to my mom or that I

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Speaker 1: didn't love her like Christ, but I also didn't want

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Speaker 1: her to hurt my kids. And so there was a

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Speaker 1: time where my father, who was absent most of my

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Speaker 1: life and then started showing up when I was eight

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Speaker 1: a couple four times a year or something, I would

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Speaker 1: visit him. By the time I hit college, I was

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Speaker 1: so angry with him for not being there for me

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Speaker 1: and not rescuing me from the trauma and the pain

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Speaker 1: and the abuse and stuff that I experienced as a

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Speaker 1: little girl. I stopped speaking to him for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years. I'm not giving anyone up her mission slip

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Speaker 1: to go just stop speaking to people. But I will

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Speaker 1: tell you this. We have gone through things none of

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Speaker 1: us should have ever had to go through before. And

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Speaker 1: I needed that time with my dad to process with

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Speaker 1: a therapist why I was so angry. I had to

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Speaker 1: name the pain first. I had to get to a

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Speaker 1: place where my therapist said, why don't you write a letter?

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Speaker 1: Never mail it. I had to write a letter I

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Speaker 1: never planned on mailing to my dad, to tell him

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Speaker 1: pages and pages of the ways I felt hurt by him.

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Speaker 1: I had to do that work, and then I ended

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Speaker 1: up mailing it, and this beautiful process happened between us,

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Speaker 1: where he not only owned all of his absence and

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Speaker 1: the pain that caused and how much he that haunted

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Speaker 1: his life, but I finally got to release him and

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Speaker 1: forgive him, which released me. But I don't think I

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Speaker 1: could have gotten there because one I showed up to

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Speaker 1: church and my pastor said, forgive, because Jesus forgives you.

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Speaker 1: I think I had to go through a hard process

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Speaker 1: of really feeling angry and really having to recognize why

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Speaker 1: I was angry. Where we go wrong though, is I

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Speaker 1: think we just we kind of surround ourselves with kind

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Speaker 1: of like yes people, yeah, and they just tell us like, oh, girl, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're your dad was a loser. You should just disown him,

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Speaker 1: never talk to him again, girl, Or like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can get better with your husband, like you could get

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Speaker 1: a better man, like all this stuff. We surround ourselves

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Speaker 1: with people who just kind of tell us what we

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Speaker 1: want to hear. And if we surround ourselves with, you know,

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Speaker 1: godly counsel, people who truly are seeking the Lord, praying

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Speaker 1: to the Lord, reading as scriptures, a Christian therapist who's

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Speaker 1: the same pastors, and we're going to them and we're

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Speaker 1: telling them like, hey, my mom moved into town and

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Speaker 1: she's an alcoholic and she's broken and she doesn't know

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Speaker 1: Jesus and she needs his love and I want to

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Speaker 1: show her his love, but also I don't want her

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Speaker 1: alcoholism to bleed all over my children. I'm like processing

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Speaker 1: that with godly counsel, and they're all kind of like

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Speaker 1: saying the same thing, and they're listening to my hurt

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Speaker 1: and there they're listening to God and his ability to

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Speaker 1: redeem and heal. I think we're going to get somewhere

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Speaker 1: that honors Jesus. But I think if we're just listening

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Speaker 1: to people who tell us the easy way, we're going

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Speaker 1: to just keep having broken relationships that never experience peace

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Speaker 1: or forgiveness or redemption because just cutting everybody off because

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Speaker 1: they're hurt. The truth is we're all hurt, we're all wounded,

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Speaker 1: and we're all wounding each other. And God can heal,

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Speaker 1: God can redeem, God can bring peace in relationships that

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Speaker 1: feel completely wrecked. But we have to be open to

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Speaker 1: the idea that he can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is all so good, and yeah, I know

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people probably really need to hear that.

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Speaker 2: Can you just talk about this word and this concept

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Speaker 2: of collide and you touched on it, but can you

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Speaker 2: just go in a little bit more depth, like what

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Speaker 2: does that mean to you the title collide and how

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Speaker 2: is that concept kind of woven throughout your book?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, like I said, I met Jesus when

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Speaker 1: I was twenty one years old, and I kind of

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Speaker 1: like to say he wrecked my life in a good way.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was like it was a collision. Like

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Speaker 1: when I met him and I saw who he is

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Speaker 1: and how he is and what he offers me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just literally changed my life upside down for the better.

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Speaker 1: And when I see him in the New Testament and

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Speaker 1: he runs into people, there's kind of a before and after, right,

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Speaker 1: There's just like people are never left the same after

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Speaker 1: they run into Jesus. And so I've spent the last

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Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty years just being in love with

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Speaker 1: watching Jesus run into people in the Bible. I mean

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Speaker 1: you see him with the woman at the well, and

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Speaker 1: he's traveling somewhere, and you see him completely re route

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Speaker 1: his trip to go meet one lady who has a

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Speaker 1: terrible reputation. No one respected her, she didn't respect herself.

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Speaker 1: She'd gone from man to man to man, and he

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Speaker 1: goes out of his way for her. And I saw

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Speaker 1: that and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm her.

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Speaker 1: I'm her Like I went from you know, being wounded

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Speaker 1: by my parents to going to college and partying and

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Speaker 1: sleeping around, just longing for someone to choose me and

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Speaker 1: love me. And I see Jesus and he goes out

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Speaker 1: of his way to run into people like me. And

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Speaker 1: then I see him. He's on his way to heal

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Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl who's dying, and that's a

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Speaker 1: really important mission, it's so important. And on his way,

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Speaker 1: this woman fights for her own healing and she reaches

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Speaker 1: for the hem of his robe, and he could just

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Speaker 1: be like, I don't have time for you, chick, but

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Speaker 1: he actually doesn't. He stops for her. He stops right

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Speaker 1: there for her, and they have this run and it

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Speaker 1: completely heals her life. And he actually calls her daughter

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Speaker 1: and she falls down at his feet and she tells

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Speaker 1: him her whole truth. And it's just this beautiful collision.

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Speaker 1: And I think about Jesus, where you know, he's in

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Speaker 1: the boat with his disciples and there's the famous storm

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Speaker 1: and they're all peeling their pants and he's chilling, and

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Speaker 1: he bosses the wind and the waves around and then

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Speaker 1: that same boat gets to the shore and you see Jesus.

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Speaker 1: And I write about this in the book because it's

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Speaker 1: crazy because Jesus gets out of the boat, but you

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Speaker 1: don't see the disciples getting out of the boat. They

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Speaker 1: want to say cozy and comfortable, but Jesus gets out

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Speaker 1: of the boat on purpose and goes and runs into

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Speaker 1: a man who's living as an outcast. He's been shunned

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Speaker 1: to live in the tombs. He's cutting himself, he's crying

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Speaker 1: out day and night. He's broken the chains that people

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Speaker 1: try to bind him with because he scared people, so

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Speaker 1: they tried to lock him up. We do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and here's Jesus. He goes out of his way to

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Speaker 1: collide with this guy. And by the time Jesus is

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Speaker 1: done running into this guy's life, he's now he was naked,

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Speaker 1: now he's dressed. Scripture says, he's in his right mind,

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Speaker 1: and he's begging Jesus, please let me go with you.

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Speaker 1: I just want to go with you. And Jesus says, no,

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Speaker 1: I want you to go back into your cammunity, the

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Speaker 1: community that hurt you, go back to the people that

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Speaker 1: hurt you, and I want you to tell them what

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Speaker 1: the Lord has done for your life. And so the

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Speaker 1: whole concept of collide is like, we have a God

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Speaker 1: who left heaven the perfect place on his throne, and

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Speaker 1: he comes down. He moves into our hood and it's

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Speaker 1: messy and it's broken and it's dysfunctional, and he chooses

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Speaker 1: us anyways, and he does life with us, and you

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Speaker 1: see him doing life with us, and he enters mess

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Speaker 1: and he touches mess, and he takes wounds and mess

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Speaker 1: on himself on the cross and says, by my wounds,

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Speaker 1: you are healed. Like I'm gonna take all your wounds

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Speaker 1: on and so that you can be finally whole. And

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Speaker 1: so I just started to look at the life of

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Speaker 1: Jesus and go, wow, he runs right into our lives

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Speaker 1: and when he does, we are made more wold and broken,

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Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful thing. And it became a thing

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Speaker 1: for me where I wasn't just reading about it, like

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Speaker 1: I think we kind of treat the Bible like some

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Speaker 1: sort of like historical text where it's like, oh, Jesus

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Speaker 1: did this then, But actually, you know, when that girl

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Speaker 1: I was mentoring, she broad her twenty five college age

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Speaker 1: girlfriends over and we started meeting in my living room,

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Speaker 1: and like, as we were watching him heal these people

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Speaker 1: in the New test Andy, he started healing us. He

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Speaker 1: started showing up in our pain. And that was a

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Speaker 1: crazy thing. And that's what I've seen him do over

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Speaker 1: and over again, is that he's actually still healing today.

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Speaker 1: And if we let him enter the mess and enter

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Speaker 1: the pain instead of avoiding it and acting like we're

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Speaker 1: put together and we're good and we needed Jesus twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago when we gave our life him, but we're

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Speaker 1: good now, we don't need him. But we actually let

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Speaker 1: him enter it, he will make us more whole.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is such a powerful picture, just to see

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Speaker 2: him doing that, And it's convicting for me because I

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Speaker 2: guess everyone maybe, but I know for myself it's hard

433
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: to run into people's pain for lots of reasons. It's

434
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: it's uncomfortable. It's you're not sure what to do. Sometimes

435
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 2: you're not sure if you're going to make a mistake

436
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: or say something wrong, and so sometimes it's more comfortable

437
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: to stand back. And I'm thinking maybe with your mom

438
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: it was a similar thing where you had your own pain,

439
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: but then even after recognizing that she had her pain,

440
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 2: that had to be hard to engage. It's like, we

441
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: all have our own stuff, and so it's almost like

442
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: sometimes whether it's the busyness of my life, whether it's

443
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: my own baggage, it's like, Okay, my plate is only

444
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: so big, and I'm afraid I'm not going to be

445
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: able to if I even begin to enter into someone

446
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: else's pain, that I will not be able to see

447
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: it through, that it's going to be too much. And

448
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: so seeing Jesus, and Jesus had boundaries too, But seeing

449
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: Jesus running toward the people, like the people that he

450
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: made a bee line for were those who were desperate

451
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: and in pain because they were open, they were at

452
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: the end of them. So else Meanwhile, you have the

453
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: Pharisees who were full of themselves and had no interest

454
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: in him and in fact wanted him gone. So can

455
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: you talk about that process of not only let's start

456
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: first with the beautiful knowledge that God runs toward our

457
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: pain and accepting that. Can you just talk a little

458
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: bit about you know, why is that message so important

459
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: for women to understand that Jesus runs toward pain, He's

460
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 2: not afraid of it.

461
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: I mean, with a little kid, we slap a band

462
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: aid on when they're crying and we're like, stop crying.

463
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: You have a band aid now, and they're trying to

464
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: stop crying, but it still hurts. I think we've been

465
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: told sweeping under the rug, move on, be strong, be tough,

466
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: pray and you'll be good. And that's not working. And

467
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: so any kind of unresolved pain, whether it's big trauma

468
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: or little hurts, if it's unhealed and unresolved, it's going

469
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: to come out sideways. And what I think is happening

470
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: if you look at your own life, or you look

471
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: at your friends or your family, look at your family

472
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: or people you know from work or school or whatever,

473
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: unresolved pain is wreaking havoc like wounded people, wound people,

474
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: wounds just travel. It's just a contagion. And so what

475
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: we have to recognize is that our avoidance of pain

476
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: is actually causing more of it. It's not working well.

477
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: You don't see a god who avoids pain. That's what's

478
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: crazy about Jesus. Like, look at what we know about Jesus.

479
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: He's on an all out pursuit. He's chasing down people

480
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: in pain. He's running towards the leopards, he's running towards

481
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: the blind people's He stops in a house party for

482
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: a paralytic that's you know, raised down by four friends.

483
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: Through the roof. He meets the hemorrhaging woman that I

484
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: was talking about. I mean, over and over again. He

485
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: touches and heals the man with a shriveled hand. He

486
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: goes to the guy by the stirring waters who's waiting

487
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: for the waters to heal him. Jesus is on an

488
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: all out pursuit to enter people's mess and pain, and

489
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: then he takes it on himself on the cross. And

490
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: so I don't understand why we've bought into the idea

491
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: that we're just supposed to sort of sweet pain under

492
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: the rug and it's gonna go away. The only way

493
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: that you can heal pain is by letting Jesus come

494
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: in and mend and restore it, the only way. And

495
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: if you don't give him your pain, if you don't

496
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: name your pain, if you aren't real about it, if

497
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: you're still buying into the idea that you have to

498
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: move on somehow because you're a Christian. I mean, look,

499
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: I spoke at a retreat once and there was this,

500
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: you know, beautiful thirty year old lady probably, and she

501
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: just she came up to me after every session that

502
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: I spoke at lunch during the break and it just

503
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: kept being like, I don't know, I'm crying, and I'm like,

504
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're crying either, but it's okay

505
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: to cry and then it was like the next time,

506
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm crying, Like this thing happened

507
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and I shouldn't be crying, Like I

508
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: have a savior, I'm good with God. And then finally,

509
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: when we had time during lunch break, I'm just like,

510
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: why don't you tell me what happened to you ten

511
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: years ago? You keep wondering why you're crying. You keep

512
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: thinking you should be good because you have God. What

513
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: happened ten years ago? And she said, well, I was

514
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: dating a guy and he didn't share the same faith

515
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: and values as me, and I felt like I was

516
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: supposed to break up with him, and I broke up

517
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: with him and he killed himself. And she said, my

518
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: pastors and my spiritual mentors told me you did the

519
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: right thing. You have God, you should be good, move on.

520
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: And I just said, when someone kills themselves, that's really sad,

521
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: that's so sad. You're sad. You're still sad because you're

522
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: still sad. And I think like we need to give

523
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: each other permission to be sad, to be mad, to

524
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: feel disappointed, to grieve, to name the pain you If

525
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: you aren't given permission to say, you know what I

526
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: experienced this and it sucks and it hurt and hard.

527
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: Then you're just going in her mind, the theology that

528
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: she believed was like God is good, so I should

529
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: be good, right, But her pain was leaking out sideways.

530
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how that was impacting her marriage and

531
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: her kids because she had this unresolved pain. So I

532
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: think our avoidance of pain is not working. And God

533
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: is not a god who avoids pain. He's a God

534
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: on an all out pursuit to heal pain. So I

535
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: think we really need to shift, like, oh, my avoidance

536
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: is actually hurting other people. I'm actually my pain is

537
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: starting to hurt the people that I love the most,

538
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: and I need God to come in and heal me.

539
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's kind of a like overused example probably,

540
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: but just you know, when you have this pain and

541
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: you just kind of mask it, like this woman I

542
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: think was encouraged to do or made to feel like

543
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: that's what she was supposed to do as a good Christian,

544
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it just festers. It festers, and so what

545
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: does it practically look like? You know, you talk about

546
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: slowing down and meeting Jesus in your pain, what does

547
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: that look like practically speaking.

548
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's such a big question with so

549
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: many answers. I mean, when I look at Jesus, he

550
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: meets all of these different people with different pain, and

551
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: so it always looks different. But one thing that I

552
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: would say feels like it always looks the same is this.

553
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I think that we do one of two things in

554
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: our lives with pain. Besides avoid it. We when we

555
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: decide we want to heal it. We either go, oh,

556
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: God has to heal me. Like I'm just gonna wait

557
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: for God to wave a magic wand and I'm gonna

558
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: wake up on Wednesday. I'm gonna be healed. I'm gonna

559
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: be like someone's gonna put me on the prayer chain.

560
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the miracle they all prayed for, you know.

561
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: And that's great. And God can do miracle. He has

562
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: way more power than a magic wand. But the other

563
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: thing we do is we go, I have to heal me.

564
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: I have to do all the stuff. I have to

565
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: eat kale and I have to go on a keto diet,

566
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: and I have to, you know, make all these amends.

567
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: And like I have all this stuff I have to

568
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: do too, and the mistake I think in both of

569
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: those is that it's actually both. I think it's both.

570
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: And why I think it's both is when I see

571
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: Jesus colliding with people in the New Testament. And I'll

572
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: use the guy waiting at the Stirring waters as an example.

573
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: He shows up to this guy and the guy is thinking,

574
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 1: if I just do this one thing, if I just

575
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: get to these waters, and Jesus is standing there, and

576
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. Jesus has already shown me as so much

577
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: power to heal. He is the healer standing right in

578
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: front of the guy. And this guy is still talking

579
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: about if I just do these things, so he's relying

580
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: on himself like to heal himself. And Jesus says, do

581
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: you want to get hold who? You want to get well?

582
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: And the word want is the word thilo, and it

583
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: means to not only want something, but to purpose it

584
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: to action. So he's actually like beginning to suggest that

585
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: we have to participate in the healing we long for,

586
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: that we actually have to want our own healing as

587
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: much as we want God to want it. We can't

588
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: just sit around and be like, oh God, I just

589
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: pray that you make my body healthy. But In the meantime,

590
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna snarf on nachos and drink three gien and

591
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: Tonics every night. Like that, that doesn't work. He wants

592
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: us to participate in our own health and wellness, but

593
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: also not to rely only on ourselves, but with him,

594
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: to walk towards to walk towards healing. So when you

595
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: see Jesus with this guy, he's been there thirty eight years.

596
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: That's so long to feel stuck so long, and Jesus's

597
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: pick up your mat and walk, I would imagine a

598
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: guy who's been sitting somewhere not able to move from

599
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: a stuck place for almost four decades. Is like, bro, Jesus,

600
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: did you not get the memo, I'm the guy who

601
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: doesn't walk. You're asking me to pick up my mat

602
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: and walk. I don't walk, and Jesus is saying, I'm

603
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: actually asking you to move. Part of healing requires that

604
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: we not only believe God has power to heal, but

605
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: that we are willing to participate in the healing we

606
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: long for. It is absolutely both. God empowers us and

607
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: gives us agency. And you can say, well, I've tried things,

608
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: I've tried things. Well, what is one thing today? You

609
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: can do that you have not yet done, And I

610
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: don't know what that is for each of us. It's different, right,

611
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, For me with my dad, it was

612
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: writing a letter I never planned on sending. That was

613
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: something I could do. It didn't mean that I could

614
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: make my dad change, but I could write about my

615
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: pain and the pain that I felt like he caused.

616
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: I could write to him and never plan on sending it.

617
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: But months later or a year later, whatever the time was,

618
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: when I wrote it and I read it to my therapists,

619
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: the next move, God asked me to make his actually

620
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: put it in the mail, to actually send that letter.

621
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: And so there have been different times in my life

622
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: where the move that God is asking me to participate

623
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: in looks different. And what it looks like for you

624
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: is different than what it looks like for me, because

625
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: we have different pain. But I think God, He's gonna

626
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: ask you if you go to him, he wants to

627
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: enter your pain. He wants to agree with you and

628
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: wants to weep with you. He wants to hold you,

629
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: he wants to listen to you and process and be

630
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: a safe space for you can name pain, and he

631
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: already knows your pain there's not a freaking thing that

632
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: you have experienced that he does not know about. But

633
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: he wants you, like a good dad, to go to

634
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: him and bring him your pain, and he's gonna hold

635
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: it with you. But he might ask you to make

636
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: a move. And if he asks you to make a move,

637
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: that move is one step closer to your wholeness than

638
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: you were yesterday.

639
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think sometimes we can get paralyzed by

640
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: not seeing the in between steps and thinking. You know,

641
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: you look at a person maybe who's on the other

642
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: side of healing, or you imagine what your life might

643
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: be like completely free from the bondage of your pain,

644
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: and you think that's impossible. And then but you know,

645
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: I love that you're saying, give yourself permission to take

646
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: one small step like you, I bet you wouldn't have

647
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: written that letter if God had told you were going

648
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: to have to send it. I mean, that would have

649
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: probably been really difficult. So to look for the micro step,

650
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: like what is the one thing God's asking me to

651
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: do right in front of me, and then let him

652
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: worry about how that leads to healing.

653
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you.

654
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: Know we're a prayer podcast. What kind of Yeah, what

655
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: kind of host would I be if I didn't ask

656
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 2: you about what role has prayer played in your personal healing?

657
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: And you talk about a partnership of not just saying Okay,

658
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: God heal me, but what role does prayer play on

659
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: all the levels of healing that you kind of have

660
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: talked about.

661
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, oh goodness, I'm thinking over the years

662
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: of all the ways. I mean, prayer to me is

663
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: really talking to God, listening to God, being with God.

664
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: And over the years, I've needed that for so many things.

665
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: And I remember when I was first going to a

666
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: Christian therapist. I didn't go to her because she was Christian.

667
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't a Christian. I was twenty years old. I

668
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: was completely broken. I was no longer speaking to my dad.

669
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: My mom lived all the way across the country and

670
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: I hadn't lived with her since I was a kid.

671
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: I felt alone. I felt on my own. I didn't

672
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: believe in a God or a higher power. I not

673
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: only been wounded by my parents and other characters growing

674
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: up and hadn't told anybody the things that happened to

675
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: me for two decades. But I was starting to hurt

676
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: my own life and found myself withdrawing from class in

677
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: a hotel. I didn't want to live anymore. I mean,

678
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: I was as broken as they come. I ended up

679
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: in a counseling office. Someone recommended this counselor and she

680
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: was Christian, and she actually I was starting to seek

681
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: is there a God? And who is Jesus? And God

682
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: had kind of surrounded me. He was stalking me, is

683
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: how I like to think about it. He was just

684
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: surrounding me with all these Christians. And I was like,

685
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: oh man, I'd never wanted to give any Christians a chance,

686
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: and he was trying to get a hold of my life.

687
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: And here I was in this therapist's office who loved Jesus,

688
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: and she and I started talking about God and she

689
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: asked me if, she said, when you think of one

690
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: of the hardest things you experienced as a child, I

691
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: want you to think of that right now, which is

692
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: a hard thing to do in general. And it was

693
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: really weird because the imagery I got was not a

694
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: picture of violence. It wasn't a picture of you know,

695
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: seeing people using drugs or being scared people were after us,

696
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: or it wasn't any of this crazy stuff. I pictured

697
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: myself alone on this like purply plumb colored, old tattered

698
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: velvet chair petting my cat when I was a little girl.

699
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: And she asked me, why that's what I pictured and

700
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: I and I said, I used to spend so much

701
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: time being left alone every night, and like not every night,

702
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: a lot of nights during the week, and I just

703
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: I felt so alone in the world, and I had

704
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: no one else and I didn't have siblings, and I

705
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: would sit there and just wish I wasn't alone. But

706
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: I felt like I deserved to be alone, and I

707
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: didn't know why. And she said, could you invite God

708
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: to go back and sit on that chair with you?

709
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: And I was like, no way, There is no way,

710
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: I am if God was sitting on that chair with me,

711
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: why would I have ever experienced any of this in

712
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: the first place, Like, there's no way I can do that.

713
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: And to make a long story short, And I write

714
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: about this in the book Jamie, but probably some time

715
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: later after really like pursuing and learning more about Jesus

716
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: and seeing how beautifull he is and gracious and kind,

717
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: and the Jesus who wept with Mary and Martha, and

718
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: you think about Mary and Martha, like they called Jesus

719
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: to come and save their brother, and he doesn't come

720
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: in time, and he purposely didn't come, and then he

721
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: shows up and two days later and their brothers died,

722
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: and they both with this raw honesty, they each run

723
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: out separately to Jesus and they say, if you had

724
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: been here, our brother would be alive. And if you

725
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: had been here, my brother would be alive. And they

726
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: had these if you hads with God, and I think

727
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: we all do. We have these things and I had those.

728
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: My biggest hang up with believing there was a God

729
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: was where were you when I needed you? Why didn't

730
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: you stop the abuse? Why didn't you protect me? Why

731
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: didn't you give me a different story? Why didn't have

732
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: a different moment dad that I had? Why didn't have

733
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: to go through all this by myself? Where were you?

734
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: And what I experienced in that therapist's office eventually was

735
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: that Jesus can handle all of those things. He can

736
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: handle all our if you hads, he can handle me

737
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: saying you were a no show, just like my dad.

738
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: I don't feel like you showed up for me. I

739
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: don't feel like you were there for me. Where were you?

740
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: Why weren't you there for me? And I had this,

741
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: and this is prayer. This is prayer. I finally invited

742
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: him to come sit on the chair with me, and

743
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: I had this moment that just completely like Jesus came

744
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: and he sat on that chair with me, and he

745
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: held me and he weeped with me, and he said,

746
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: you were never supposed to experience this hurt. You were never.

747
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: You were never intended to experience being alone and feeling

748
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: like you deserved me alone. You were you were never.

749
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: You were never supposed to to feel this way. But

750
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: wounded people wounded you. And he was weeping too, and

751
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: he held me on that chair, and I had this

752
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: experience where it's like he started stitching me up and

753
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: I was his daughter and he was my dad and

754
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: it was a beautifu experience. And so I think prayer

755
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: can look like that. But prayer can also look like

756
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, me on my couch even yesterday in my

757
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: journal and just saying, Lord, here are things that are

758
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: hurting my heart right now, and I just lift those

759
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: things off and I say, I'm handing these to you,

760
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that you're in them, and that you

761
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: can be with these people and be with these hard circumstances,

762
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: and so I think prayer can look all sorts of

763
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: different ways, and I love talking about what I can

764
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: look like. But inviting God into your your if you hats,

765
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: inviting God into the things that are hurting your heart,

766
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: making a list of all the people that you love

767
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: who are hurting right now and handing them to God.

768
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things that prayer is really

769
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: just just an invitation to let God come into those

770
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: hurting places, and He's healing, just his presence is healing.

771
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: I love that you give us such a great spectrum

772
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: of how prayer can look in different seasons, in different situations.

773
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, what a beautiful what a beautiful picture of

774
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: I have never heard that Lazarus story spoken of in

775
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: the you know, in the context of you should if

776
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: you had been here, then it wouldn't have happened, or

777
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: this wouldn't have been this way in the context of

778
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: things that have happened to us in the past. Can

779
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: you talk about with prayer during your healing journey and

780
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: really just prayer at any point? What is the importance

781
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: of prayer in the context of community. I mean, I

782
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: think of prayer whenever someone says prayer. For the most part,

783
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: I think about my personal prayer time with God, but

784
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: the Bible. Just the more I read the Bible, the

785
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: more I am just inundated with God saying it was

786
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: never meant to be done in a vacuum. This life,

787
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: this Christian walk, prayer, everything like it's in a context

788
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: of the body of Christ. So what does that mean

789
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 2: to you? And what has that meant to you? And

790
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: in your journey having that community?

791
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: Oh man, I have so many fun stories, and we

792
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: probably don't have all day for me to tell them.

793
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: But there's been so many moments where I've heard the

794
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: voice of God while praying in community with other people

795
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: that shifted my trajectory. I mean, I think about this

796
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: whole collide thing wasn't something I was trying to start right,

797
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: And I don't know how many years in I was

798
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: actually offered a position at a church and I was

799
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: gonna They said, you could bring Colyde under our umbrella.

800
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: You can get a salary, you can have all the resources,

801
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: you can do all you can have all this stuff.

802
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: You can have office and health insurance. And at the time,

803
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: we didn't have an office and we didn't have a budget,

804
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: and we didn't have a staff, and I wasn't getting

805
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: paid and I'm working over full time and all this stuff,

806
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: and so I invite some of my community. And we

807
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: also invited my son, who was probably in middle school,

808
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: to come, and we did this sort of I think

809
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: it's a Quaker tradition where they come and just ask questions.

810
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: They just ask you questions for discerning and you answered

811
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: the questions, but they don't give any opinions, and then you.

812
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: Pray, okay, so give me. And so is this You're

813
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: in a room and this is kind of like this

814
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: is a church gathering of.

815
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: It's not a church gathering. It's in my living room.

816
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: I invite in your living room, okay, people in my

817
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: living room if I did my son, because I believe

818
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: that God speaks to kids as well, and I think

819
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: your kids need to know that they have a spiritual

820
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: voice and God can speak to them. And I say

821
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: that because we did this whole discerning thing. They asked

822
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: me all these fantastic questions and I answer, and then

823
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: we go to pray.

824
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: So you answer the questions. So they'll ask you a

825
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: question to get you to kind of be thinking, and

826
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: you answer verbally back to them, is that right?

827
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: And then they ask more questions, okay, and more questions,

828
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: and then at one point we all prayed. And it

829
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: was the prayer of my son that made it so

830
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: clear that God was calling me to do something that

831
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense on paper. And the thing God

832
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: was calling me to do was to believe that He

833
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: was doing something bigger with this collide, thing that I

834
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 1: could imagine, and it wasn't underneath the umbrella of one church,

835
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: but that He actually wanted to impact and change so

836
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: many lives further beyond even the city I live in

837
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: or the county I live in, but beyond. And so

838
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: it was going to be actually me having to continue

839
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: to trust Him, even if it meant no money, no health, interests,

840
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: oh resources, no office, no whatever. But it was through

841
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: like this discerning prayer experience. And I look back at

842
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: that and go, wow, like, there's nothing wrong with being

843
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: a pastor of a church. That's amazing. But God had

844
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: an entirely different plan for me that I don't know

845
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: that I would have recognized without the discerning community who

846
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: gathered around me and prayed. Another example I think of is,

847
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: and I'll give this advice because I think this is

848
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: advice is cultivate friendships when you are okay. Oh yeah,

849
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: so that when you're not okay, those people feel like

850
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: they have permission to comments around you when you need

851
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: it most. And I had done that, not knowing that's

852
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: what I was doing. It cultivated some deep friendships with

853
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: some women. And I didn't know all of a sudden,

854
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: three women and they're not all close, but I'm close

855
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: to all of them. They just are from different pockets

856
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: of my life. But so they don't know each other well,

857
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: but they know who each other is. My husband did

858
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: not think I was okay. At one point in time,

859
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: I was struggling, and he called these girlfriends and they

860
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: show up on a Saturday morning and I'm on the

861
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: couch in pajamas and I'm like, what are you guys

862
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: doing here? And they're like, we're worried about you. And

863
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: they're like on the sitting on the carpet by the couch,

864
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: like they're on the ground, sitting there, not in a

865
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,959
Speaker 1: creepy way, but just like close, and they're like, we're

866
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: worried about you, and so we came over here today

867
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: because we want to pray over you. And I was

868
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: like I don't know. I think I was humbled. I

869
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: think I was emotional, like I felt like, oh, these

870
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: people are taking up their Saturday for me. I'm totally fine,

871
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: I'll be fine. But I was also like wow, like

872
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: I have those kinds of friends where they get one

873
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: call and they're like, we're there, you know what I mean,

874
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: And so they prayed over me, and I felt hell

875
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: and I felt carried, like okay, like I can make

876
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: it through this really hard season. I'm like so loved

877
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: and cared for. And sometimes that's what we need to know.

878
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: But it's really hard to go finding that or creating

879
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: it when you're not okay. Like sow seeds into the

880
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: kind of relationships when you have some energy and when

881
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: you have the emotional like ability to invest in relationships

882
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: so that when you need it, they're there for you.

883
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,399
Speaker 2: Wow, that is such good advice. I Alana and I

884
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: talk about this in terms of prayer, like, when you

885
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: have the mental space and the place in life where

886
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: you're feeling pretty solid, cultivate those habits, maybe set up

887
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: systems that you can fall back on when you're not okay.

888
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: But for friendships, that's beautiful, Like that is so important

889
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: because you don't have the energy to, you know, brush

890
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: your teeth in the morning. Sometimes when you're not in

891
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: a good place much less find people like you need

892
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: people that can already have been found, that are already invested.

893
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 2: That is so good.

894
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: I mean. The only other thing I would say is

895
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: for moms who are listening when you are having a

896
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: bad day, when your heart's hurting, when there's something stressful

897
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: going on, or when that's true of your kids, don't

898
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: pretend like you're fine, don't pretend like you're strong, don't

899
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: act like you have it all together, but instead be

900
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: real with your kids, like I'm having a hard time

901
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 1: and I need to go to God right now. Will

902
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: you pray with me? Or you know, model for your

903
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: kids that you go to God when things are hard.

904
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: And the reason why I say that is I did that.

905
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: I did not raise my kids and hide my pain.

906
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: They weren't my therapists. I'm not suggesting that, but I

907
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: tried to be very real with them about what is

908
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 1: true real pain. They saw real pain, but they also

909
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: saw real healing. And the reason why I bring that

910
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: up when it has to do with prayer, is a

911
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: week or so ago, I it was the week my

912
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: book was releasing. I was to preach three times in

913
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: a weekend. And I was already feeling really like a

914
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: vulnerable hangover from putting this book out because it has

915
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: all these stories that quote unquote, I'm not supposed to

916
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: tell raw, hard stories that are being put out in

917
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: the world. And I was struggling with that. And then

918
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: I had, you know, a very short period of time

919
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 1: to prepare for these three sermons that I had to give.

920
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: And I got the day that I had to start

921
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: working on those messages, I started getting so sick. I

922
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 1: was got some sort of terrible flu. I was vomiting,

923
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean, tmi, I know, diarrhea. I had all things, egges, headaches,

924
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: like it was terrible, terrible, terrible, And I thought, Oh

925
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: my gosh, Lord, I don't know how I'm gonna do

926
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: this assignment you have for me. I'm not well, like

927
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: I feel like the enemy's at me, Like I don't

928
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: know how I'm going to pull this off. I was

929
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: nauseous all the time. And my son, he's twenty three

930
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: years old, and he called me on the phone day

931
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: two of being sick, three days out from the assignment

932
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,479
Speaker 1: where I had just show up and you know, bring

933
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: a message to impact lives. And he says, Mom, can

934
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: I pray for you? And I said yes, So I'm

935
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: on the phone and he says, Jesus, what do you

936
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: want mom to hear? And he stayed totally silent, and

937
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: I listened, and I was like, wow, you know, Aiden,

938
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: I said, you know what God just said to me.

939
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: I was supposed to preach on the foot washing and

940
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: the cross and on the whole idea of you know,

941
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: Philippians too, and Jesus he did not consulder her equality

942
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: with God something to be grasped, but he made himself nothing,

943
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: emptied himself and died on a cross. I'd been studying

944
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: all that and when Jesus, when Aiden said, Jesus, what

945
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 1: do you want Mom to hear? I heard God say,

946
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: You're gonna come empty. I'm actually emptying out your entire

947
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: body on both ends. You're gonna come You're gonna feel

948
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: so weak, You're gonna feel like you have nothing to offer.

949
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: You're gonna feel like you have nothing to give. You're

950
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: actually going to have to resonate with the very characteristics.

951
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: You're going to tell people that I lived in that

952
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: moment like it was like, not something I wanted to hear,

953
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: but again, prayer and community. My son he knows where

954
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: to go when things are hard. He knows where to

955
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: go because we did it together as whole childhood and

956
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: he prayed over me, and I needed to hear that.

957
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 1: It actually sounds weird, but I got excited even though

958
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: I felt terrible that I was going to come empty,

959
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: because I knew there was a purpose for it. I

960
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm gonna come empty, which means your

961
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: power is going to show up even though I'm empty,

962
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: because you told me this is how it's supposed to go.

963
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. So I just share that

964
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: story that happened last week, and I share it Jamie

965
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: because the influence that you have as a mom when

966
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: it comes to prayer, not in a religious duty, obligatory

967
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I'm talking about going to God when

968
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: things are hard with your kids because where else you

969
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: going to go? And then when they're young adults, they

970
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: know where to go. Yeah, and that is awesome. That's awesome.

971
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm so glad my son knows where to go, and

972
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: now he's leading me when I need to go there.

973
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: So I thought i'd shared that before we close up.

974
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you did. That's what a great story,

975
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: what an amazing story.

976
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: I love it.

977
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 2: I love it.

978
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: Well.

979
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: Can you just tell us a little bit about just

980
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 2: tell us where we can find out more about Collide,

981
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 2: where your ministry, Where we can find out more about

982
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 2: your book, your podcast, and just all of the things

983
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 2: connect with you on social media online.

984
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So if you want to find out about

985
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: my ministry, go to week Collide dot net, or you

986
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 1: can go to my own website page, which is Willowweston

987
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: dot com. If you want to come hang out with

988
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: me on Instagram and we can share life together there.

989
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: I'm on there at Willow and Weston. And as far

990
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,240
Speaker 1: as grabbing a book there where books are sold to Amazon,

991
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble, you know the places.

992
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: All the places. Well, thank you so so much for

993
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 2: talking to us and just sharing your stories. And thank

994
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,479
Speaker 2: you again just for sharing hard things, because, like you said,

995
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,919
Speaker 2: I know it was not easy for you to talk

996
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: about and put out to the world a lot of

997
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: the things that you've been through, and just to do

998
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: that with the knowledge that God redeems it and is

999
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 2: going to bring healing to so many people. Is just

1000
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: so wonderful. Thank you for doing that.

1001
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on Jamie.

1002
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to close us in prayer. How can

1003
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 2: we pray for you today?

1004
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: Willow? Thank you. I will take prayer every day. How

1005
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: do I need prayer? I think this is like the

1006
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: week that this book Collide releases, And yeah, I think

1007
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: I mentioned it earlier, but it's a little bit. It's

1008
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: terrifying and exciting. I'm so excited to see how God

1009
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: could use it to bring healing to hurting people. But

1010
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 1: I also feel terrified by putting this stuff out there.

1011
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: So if you want to pray not only just for

1012
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: my fear and my heart in that, but also that

1013
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: God causes this book to get into the hands of

1014
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: the people who need it, I would love that.

1015
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 2: All right, will do well, let's pray. God, thank you

1016
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 2: so much for a Willow. Thank you for her story

1017
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 2: and for meeting her in it, and for being there

1018
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: even in the hardest of hard times when she didn't

1019
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: know you were there. God, thank you for being there.

1020
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: Thank you for opening doors for her to use the

1021
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 2: things the enemy intended for evil to bring about healing

1022
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 2: and hope and peace and good and glory for you

1023
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: and your kingdom. We just pray that you would be

1024
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 2: with her as this book goes out into the world,

1025
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: and that you would just surround her with protection from

1026
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 2: any lies, from the enemy, from anything except the absolute

1027
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 2: certainty and joy and knowledge that you are in this book,

1028
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 2: that you are using it to reach more people than

1029
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: she ever could have imagined, and that you are pleased

1030
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: with her, and that you are just absolutely in this

1031
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: and working through this book. We just pray that you

1032
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 2: would open doors that weren't open before for the book

1033
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: to reach the people that need it the most. We

1034
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 2: pray that healing and salvation would come through the pages

1035
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: of this book. We pray that there would be no

1036
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: barrier for it reaching the people you've intended it for

1037
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: it to reach. And we just thank you so much

1038
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: for being a redeemer, for being a God who uses

1039
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: each one of us, and just for Willow's testimony of

1040
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 2: how you bring us to the point of emptiness when

1041
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: we get to the end of ourselves, that's when you

1042
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: and your power is made perfect in that weakness. And

1043
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: we praise you God. We praise you that there's nothing

1044
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 2: the enemy can take from us. There's nothing this world

1045
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 2: can do to us that will keep you from working

1046
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: through us and in us. We just pray that we

1047
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 2: would be open to it and receptive to it, and

1048
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 2: that through us we would be able to not only

1049
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: receive your healing, but extend it to the world. Thank

1050
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: you so much, and thank you for Willow's message today

1051
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: in Jesus name, Amen.

1052
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: Amen, Thank you Jamie.

1053
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 2: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank

1054
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us

1055
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,

1056
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in

1057
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: their network. They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting,

1058
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 2: and so much more. That's lifeaudio dot com.