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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things

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Speaker 1: hillsdalet Hillsdale dot ed or I encourage you to take

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Speaker 1: advantage of the many free online courses there, and of

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Speaker 1: course I listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue, all of them

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Speaker 1: at hue for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,

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Speaker 1: iTunes and Hillsdale Good morning, or ain't even greats America?

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Speaker 1: A good Monday to you. I'm to you at on

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Speaker 1: the West coast for a few weeks and what a

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Speaker 1: remarkable weekend. And my head is off to the American military.

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Speaker 1: Some were wounded in this and prayers for their quick recovery.

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Speaker 1: According to the government of Cuba, thirty two Cuban security

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Speaker 1: forces were killed in Operation Absolute Result, but we haven't

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Speaker 1: had that confirmed by American sources yet. But apparently a

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Speaker 1: couple of the special forces that entered the Maduro compound

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Speaker 1: to take the dictator and his spouse out and put

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Speaker 1: them into American custody, get them to Brooklyn where he

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Speaker 1: appeared in court earlier today. We're wounded. Our prayers for

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Speaker 1: their family. More detail on that as it occurs. First

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Speaker 1: thing I want to say is it was absolutely legal.

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Speaker 1: Now I realize we have Steelers fans, and then they

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Speaker 1: might even be sober yet because of the way that

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Speaker 1: they won yesterday. Article two, Section one, first sentence, The

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Speaker 1: executive power shall be vested in a President of the

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Speaker 1: United States. Article two, Section two, first sentence. The President

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Speaker 1: shall be the Commander in chief of the Army and

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Speaker 1: the Navy of the United States. You know what that means.

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Speaker 1: That means he runs the Department of Justice, which had

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Speaker 1: an indictment against Nicholas Maduro and his wife for many

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Speaker 1: years now. So it's a law enforcement operation wrapped inside

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Speaker 1: of a military operation that got it done, and it

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Speaker 1: was absolutely legal. But for the benefit of the people

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Speaker 1: who've been listening to mainstream media and a little bit

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Speaker 1: confused about can the United States do that? I could

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Speaker 1: take you all the way back to Jefferson ordering the

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Speaker 1: Louisiana purchase when he named they it was constitutional for

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Speaker 1: the Congress and he to agree to do it. But

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Speaker 1: let's just stay in the last fifty years. Gerald Ford

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Speaker 1: in the Maigias incident May twelve through fifteenth, nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 1: no prior authorization from Congress for grabbing that boat. President

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Speaker 1: Carter ordered Operation Eagle Claw on twenty four April nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty It did not succeed the famous Desert One debacle,

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Speaker 1: but he ordered it without telling Congress, President Reagan and

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Speaker 1: the Grenada Operation Urgent Fury October twenty five, nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 1: We could talk about George H. W. Bush in Panama,

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Speaker 1: and I have, as many people have in December and

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Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety to get mister Norriega

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Speaker 1: out of there and into the US jail. We talk

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Speaker 1: about Bill Clinton's seventy eight day bombing campaign of Serbia

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Speaker 1: in March to June of nineteen ninety nine. We can

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Speaker 1: talk about President Obama bombing Libya, though he was quote

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Speaker 1: leading from behind in words attributed to him. Those air

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Speaker 1: strikes began on March nineteenth, twenty eleven, Operation Neptune Spear

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Speaker 1: May Tewond of twenty eleven to get Ben Lauden again

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Speaker 1: didn't tell anyone before we did it, and of course

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Speaker 1: he could do it. Some people we'll say, well that

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Speaker 1: at the AUFM behind it, but f and they are right.

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Speaker 1: But it does demonstrate we don't have to tell Congress.

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Speaker 1: The strikes on Solomoni and albag Dottie which the President

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Speaker 1: Trump mentioned from his first term in Saturday's extraordinary press conference.

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Speaker 1: Both of them, you don't tell Congress. It's absolutely the

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Speaker 1: use of the armed forces. It's covered by the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: President Biden ordering Syrian air strikes in February twenty eleven,

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Speaker 1: again no notification of Congress. First, the Donald Trump effect

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Speaker 1: Trump derangement syndrome has completely shattered the ability of the

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Speaker 1: American media and the Democratic Party to cover the obvious.

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Speaker 1: He's a bad guy. He's an evil guy. He ran

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Speaker 1: a cartel, so did his wife. He looted billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars from Venezuela, which we'll try and get back for

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Speaker 1: the Venezuelan people. Moreover, the three most important things that

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Speaker 1: were said in the press conference the President did on

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Speaker 1: Saturday morning, which I listen to live while I was

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Speaker 1: trunneling down at Huntington Beach. Number One something, Secretary Rubio said,

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Speaker 1: President Trump does not play games. Number Two something President

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Speaker 1: Trump also said on that day, Secretary Rubio said he

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Speaker 1: didn't play games. President Trump said life is a deal,

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Speaker 1: and by that he meant everything is on the table,

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Speaker 1: and I'm negotiating with you. I make you a couple

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Speaker 1: of offers and you don't take him, you're stuck with

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Speaker 1: the consequences. Iran learned that with Operation Midnight Hammer in

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Speaker 1: June of last year, when their nuclear weapons program was

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Speaker 1: destroyed by RB twos after the Eleven Day War begun

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Speaker 1: by Israel with Iran during the course of the larger

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Speaker 1: war that Israel actually had launched against it by Iran

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Speaker 1: and its proxies in October of twenty twenty three. But

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Speaker 1: I would point out all of this is absolutely with precedent.

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Speaker 1: It's not unprecedent. It is an unprecedented level of complexity

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Speaker 1: as far as I can tell. Listening to General Kin,

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Speaker 1: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I was astonished

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Speaker 1: by the number of moving pieces here, and I'm astonished

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Speaker 1: in State secret now. Apparently there are reports that both

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post and the New York Times had heads

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Speaker 1: up of the operation, but were requested by the Pentagon

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Speaker 1: and the President not to say anything, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: because they would have put our men and women in

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Speaker 1: the armed services at great risk. The element of surprise

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Speaker 1: was essential to grabbing the cartelista, and mister Maduro pleaded

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Speaker 1: innocent today, right, we don't believe that second thing that

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Speaker 1: the president said after he said life is a negotiation.

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Speaker 1: Life is a deal. He said on Air Force one yesterday,

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Speaker 1: when asked by one of our terrific reporters, what happens next,

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Speaker 1: he said that depends. Of course, that's the right answer.

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Speaker 1: You know, we don't know what the regime, which has

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Speaker 1: not been changed. We grabbed Maduro and his wife and

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Speaker 1: the ability to do that, to blink out Caracas at night,

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Speaker 1: and to take out their air control system and to

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Speaker 1: get special forces in and out in two and a

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Speaker 1: half hours. Sends a message to the acting president, who

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Speaker 1: is Maduro's flunky, to the Interior ministry, and their interior

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Speaker 1: minister is not like our Doug Bergham. He's not worried

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Speaker 1: about the national parks. Their interior minister is the secret police,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of secret police in Venezuela. I'll

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Speaker 1: talk with Dan Rundy about that later. What does he do,

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Speaker 1: What does the head of the military do. Maduro depended

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Speaker 1: upon both of them to secure power through two elections

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Speaker 1: that he lost, and so he's a corrupt dictator. When

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Speaker 1: the president says he took our money, he means he

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Speaker 1: expropriated American assets and did not pay for them. Any

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Speaker 1: sovereign country in the world can expropriate anything they want,

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Speaker 1: but they have to pay for them. And we've had

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Speaker 1: We've seen this many, many times since nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: and Fidel a lot of people expropriate assets Iran expropriated

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Speaker 1: American assets in the nineteen seventy nine Iran revolution, the

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Speaker 1: one that's coming undone in real time. And I'll keep

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Speaker 1: you updated throughout the course of the show as to

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Speaker 1: what is happening in Iran where the protests and the

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Speaker 1: riots have gone on. At least sixteen people have been

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Speaker 1: murdered there by the moolas the thugs over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: according to Reuters. I'll keep you posted on that throughout

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Speaker 1: the day. But to go back to what the President said,

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Speaker 1: when it depends if Venezuela is talking to Secretary Rubio

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Speaker 1: and Director Ratcliff, who runs a CIA, as well as

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Speaker 1: of course people in the White House. Secretary Rubio is

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Speaker 1: also the National Security Advisor, and I have former National

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Speaker 1: Security Advisor Robert O'Brien on later in the program, Chairman

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Speaker 1: of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Centator Cotton on later in

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Speaker 1: the program. If they are talking to American officials and saying,

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Speaker 1: here's what we're going to do. We're not going to

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Speaker 1: shoot dissidents. We're going to hold elections. Chevron can begin

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Speaker 1: to upgrade all the installations that are here. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to steal any more money, and we're not going

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Speaker 1: to kill people in the streets. And the Chavista movement,

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Speaker 1: which is twenty to thirty percent of the population, is

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Speaker 1: not going to ride and try and kill America. There

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Speaker 1: are twenty three thousand Americans in Venezuela right now, twenty

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Speaker 1: three thousand. So the word has gone forth, do not

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Speaker 1: threaten or injure those Americans. And I would be worried if,

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Speaker 1: of course I had a family member. I don't, but

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Speaker 1: I had a family member in one of the many

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Speaker 1: industries in America has in Venezuela. If I have a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship in Venezuela and cruise ships do call on

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Speaker 1: the islands of Venezuela, I would be worried, but only

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Speaker 1: if they're morons, because and they might be, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that they're not. Iran has turned out to be

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Speaker 1: full of morons. If they're morons, they will threaten an

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Speaker 1: American because you know Donald Trump won't put up with that.

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Speaker 1: The Donro doctrine is if you're kill an American, will

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Speaker 1: kill you. Most recently isis in Syria killed two American soldiers,

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Speaker 1: one civilian, and we kicked the living day lights out

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Speaker 1: of them for two days with air strikes. If they

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Speaker 1: threaten an American, that threat will be dealt with. That's

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Speaker 1: Operation Midnight Hammer. The Donroad doctrine is pretty doggone clear.

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Speaker 1: Do not kill or threaten American. Do not send drugs

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Speaker 1: into our country, do not send terrorists into our country.

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Speaker 1: Because we had a long arm, we got a military

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Speaker 1: that is second to none in the world. It's so

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Speaker 1: astonishing the complexity of that operation. And unlike the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: we have the will and the ability to use the

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Speaker 1: military that we are blessed with. Unlike the Obama administration.

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Speaker 2: It's not all tak talk talk talk talk dot talk

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Speaker 2: talk talk talk talk talk blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: It's action after an offer negotiate. Many offers were made

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Speaker 2: to Maduro, been widely reported. Now he turned them all down.

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Speaker 2: He's a billionaire who can't get it was billions. His

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Speaker 2: son's got a billion dollars, allegedly according to some of

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Speaker 2: the reports.

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Speaker 1: I'll cover it all with people throughout the day, beginning

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Speaker 1: with bethleing Seandark right after the that's her X handle.

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Speaker 1: It's Bethany Mandel from the Mom Wars just got back

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Speaker 1: from Israel. I wonder how she's reacting as an average

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Speaker 1: American mom who's watching this and wondering, what's it mean

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Speaker 1: for Israel, What's it mean for China, What's it mean

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Speaker 1: for Russia? What's it mean for everybody who would play

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Speaker 1: with the American people or their military anywhere in the

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Speaker 1: world or take our people hostages. It means Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: got your number, and if he calls, answer and listen

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Speaker 1: very close to you what he says, because, again the

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Speaker 1: quote Secretary of State Rubio and National Security Advisor Marco Rubio,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump doesn't play games. I'm Hugh Hewett. I'll be

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Speaker 1: right Backstay two. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Ewett.

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Speaker 1: Joined down by United States Senator Tom Cotton from Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: Senator Cotton is chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee as

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Speaker 1: well as of the Republican Conference. Senator Cotton, welcome, Happy

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Speaker 1: New Year to you can I start with just your

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Speaker 1: reaction to Operation Absolute Resolve.

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Speaker 3: Happy New Year to you, Hugh and all your listeners.

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Speaker 3: It was a very happy New Year achievement early Saturday morning,

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Speaker 3: an amazing operation by our military and intelligence professionals to

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Speaker 3: remind not just Nicholas Maduro but every bad guy around

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Speaker 3: the world that the long arm of American justice is long. Indeed,

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Speaker 3: it's hard to overstate how exceptionally well executed this operation was,

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Speaker 3: but that's really become kind of the hallmark of President

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Speaker 3: Trump's military operations over five years in office. If you

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Speaker 3: think about the raid to kill the ISIS leader in Syria,

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Speaker 3: to kill Iron's Paris mastermind in Iraq, to blow up

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Speaker 3: Iron's nuclear program last June, and now to capture Nicholas Maduro.

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Speaker 3: All were flawlessly executed and involved no loss of American life,

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Speaker 3: and greatly advanced to America's national interest. This actually may

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Speaker 3: be the most impressive of all when you hear how

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Speaker 3: General Kane described so many different elements of our joint

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Speaker 3: force and the fact that the capturing and exiltrating the

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Speaker 3: target is in some ways harder than killing one or

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Speaker 3: destroying something. So kudos to all those who are involved

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Speaker 3: I don't think in overstate what a great operation it was.

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Speaker 1: Now, Senta Cotton, you are a part of the Group

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Speaker 1: of eight as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, along

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Speaker 1: with your House counterpart, the ranking Democrat. I think it's

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Speaker 1: Mark Warner and the ranking Democrat in the House and

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Speaker 1: the leadership of both parties in the House of the Senate.

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Speaker 1: When did you first get notice that this had happened?

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Speaker 1: I know you weren't worn beforehand for security reasons, but

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Speaker 1: when did you first find out?

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Speaker 3: When missus Cotton, who's a lighter sleeper than I, began

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Speaker 3: elbowing me in the side on three point thirty Saturday

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Speaker 3: morning Central Time and saying, why is Marco Rubio calling you?

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Speaker 3: And I said, I don't know, but I bet it's exciting.

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Speaker 4: So he used to do what you are.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he used to be in the Group of eight.

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Speaker 1: He was the chairman of the Intel Committee. Do you

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Speaker 1: consider yourself timely and adequately notified by the executive branch

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Speaker 1: of what they ought to do?

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Speaker 3: Yes, no question you and they have kept me in

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Speaker 3: my committee and my other committee, the Armed Services Committee,

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Speaker 3: apprized of the operations we've had in the Caribbean and

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Speaker 3: the Eastern Pacific all along, and I think within twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours, gosh, you less than that, Probably within maybe

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Speaker 3: twelve or sixteen hours. I had spoken not just to

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Speaker 3: President Trump, but every man that was on stage behind

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Speaker 3: him Saturday. That's his core team, the people who are

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Speaker 3: the architects of this policy and who carried it out.

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Speaker 3: Marco Ribio, Pete Heexas, General Dan Kine, John Ratcliffe, Stephen Miller.

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Speaker 3: Had spoken every single one of them before Saturday night.

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Speaker 3: I did not get advanced notice or correct nor what

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Speaker 3: I expect to ever advanced notice about such a mission.

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Speaker 3: This is an operation, as we heard from the President,

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Speaker 3: General Kane, that was heavily dependent on contingent factors like

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Speaker 3: light and weather conditions in Venezuela and precise knowledge of

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Speaker 3: Maduro's whereabouts at any given moment. That's not the kind

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Speaker 3: of thing that you expect advanced notice to Congress for,

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Speaker 3: nor for that matter, do expect advanced notice every time

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Speaker 3: the executive carries out and arrest of a drug trafficker,

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Speaker 3: whether it's in Venezuela or in Arkansas. Again, just in

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Speaker 3: the ordinary course of affairs, that's not the kind of

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Speaker 3: thing that the Executive branch calls up to the legislature

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Speaker 3: and gives a notice.

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Speaker 1: Of now, Sarah Cotton, the President's setting Saturday morning press conference.

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Speaker 1: Congress leaks, and we know by that that sometimes political

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Speaker 1: actors leak. But I also thought the Chinese and the

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Speaker 1: Iranians are heavily invested in Venezuela. They probably try and

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Speaker 1: monitor our electronic activity and our signals intelligence. I don't

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Speaker 1: I think that there's even a risk of leaking by

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Speaker 1: people who don't intend to leak. If they just say

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing and the wrong cell phone, is that

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Speaker 1: part of the issue.

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Speaker 3: It could be hugh. And you don't even necessarily have

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Speaker 3: to know what people are saying all of a sudden.

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Speaker 3: If there's a flurry of activity of you know, calls

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Speaker 3: going out to certain key congressional leaders, you can probably

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Speaker 3: figure out that something must be up if you've had

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Speaker 3: access to that knowledge. I don't want to confirm or

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Speaker 3: deny any such access, but I think it's the best

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Speaker 3: when you we've invested as much time and effort as

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Speaker 3: our government and tracking the Duro's movements in putting the

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Speaker 3: forces in place to affect this arrest, that there's under

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Speaker 3: no circumstances you want to risk operational security, and what

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Speaker 3: incredible operational security we had what's going on for more

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Speaker 3: than four days.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that's incredible is the level of unfamiliarity

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Speaker 1: with special operations by our national news anchors yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: Secretary Rubio spank them all. But my question to you is,

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Speaker 1: when President Trump was asked on Air Force one, what

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Speaker 1: happens next, he said, it depends, which I think is

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Speaker 1: exactly the right answer. What will you be looking for

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Speaker 1: from the Venezuelan regime which is still in place, including

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Speaker 1: their interior secretary minister is not like Doug Bergham, that's

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Speaker 1: the secret police down there, head of their military, and

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Speaker 1: their new acting president. What do you think they ought

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Speaker 1: to be doing right now?

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Speaker 3: It depends heavily on their actions. As Secretary of Rubio

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Speaker 3: said just before me on facination yesterday, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to listen to what they say in speeches or press releases.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna or what they say to us privately. We're

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Speaker 3: going to monitor actions. And until just two days ago,

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Speaker 3: those folks that you just mentioned, the Vice President, Interior minister,

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Speaker 3: the Defense Minister, were I to the hip in league

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Speaker 3: with Nicholas Maduro. They've been sanctioned, some of them have

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Speaker 3: been indicted like him. It's always possible to turn turn

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Speaker 3: over a new leaf. We've seen it in Syria with

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Speaker 3: Akhmad al shara, a former altia Isis leader. We saw

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Speaker 3: it in Libya with Kadafi after he came in from

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Speaker 3: the cold when we scared him straight after the Iraq invasion.

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Speaker 3: But those cases involved concrete, clear concessions to US interests

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Speaker 3: or a longer track record of moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 3: We don't have either of that yet in Venezuela. So

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Speaker 3: the Venezuelans need to take certain actions, I would say,

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Speaker 3: to prove that it's going to be a new day

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Speaker 3: in Venezuela. They could release all political prisoners today, kick

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Speaker 3: out the worst of the worst, the Iranians, the Cubans

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Speaker 3: has Belah Loss and so forth. They could welcome back

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Speaker 3: the opposition and guarantee their safe passage into Venezuela. These

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Speaker 3: are all actions that could be taken immediately that don't

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Speaker 3: prejudice any future actions on the nature of Venezuelan's government,

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Speaker 3: who's going to lead it, when there might be elections,

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Speaker 3: so on and so forth. Those are things that they

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Speaker 3: can do to prove that they got the message that

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Speaker 3: it needs to be a new day in Venezuela. And

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Speaker 3: as President Trump said, if they don't, well, he reserves

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Speaker 3: the right to do something to Rodriguez and anyone else,

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Speaker 3: just like we did the Maduro. It may be worse.

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Speaker 1: Now, last question, Senator Cotton, the President has threatened the

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Speaker 1: Iranian regime if they murdered dissidents in the streets. What

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Speaker 1: ought they to be thinking right now? If they're the

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Speaker 1: molves or the IRGC or the head of the army.

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Speaker 3: We got one minute, well, I mean, Hugh between the

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Speaker 3: President's threat, which I welcomed very much, to stand up

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Speaker 3: to the Iranian regime if they massacre their citizens protesting

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Speaker 3: unlock what Barack Obama did in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 3: You can add they're great concern when they saw the

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Speaker 3: American military swimp into Venezuela and now Venezuela's legitimate dictators.

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Speaker 3: I imagine they're a little antsy in Tehran today and

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Speaker 3: I would urge them. As Secretary Ruber said, to take

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump seriously. Don't believe he's bluffing, don't believe that

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Speaker 3: you can play play him in this, and don't massacre

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Speaker 3: your own citizens soon effect the changes they're demanding.

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Speaker 1: Center. Tom Cotton, Chairman of the Intel Committee, thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me on a busy day for you, and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the time. Happy New Year to everyone. If

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Speaker 1: you get those calls in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: try and answer them and let your wife sleeton. Thank you, Senator.

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Speaker 1: I'll be right back in America. Pache even grace in America.

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Speaker 1: I'm due huit. Joined by Ambassador Robert C. O'Brien, formerly

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Speaker 1: National Security Advisor to President Trump in term one of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's first term as president, is now the Chairman

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Speaker 1: of American Global Security and I'm so glad to add

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Speaker 1: Mona after this incredible weekend. Ambassador O'Brien, welcome. Let me

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Speaker 1: begin with getting your reaction to Operation Absolute Resolve.

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Speaker 5: Well, Hugh, was good to see you in Happy New

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Speaker 5: Year to you as well, my friend. There was an

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Speaker 5: exquisite operation performed brilliantly by first of all our choir professionals,

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Speaker 5: the CIA guys who were prep for the battlefield. And

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Speaker 5: we're down in the in the jungles and the urban

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Speaker 5: areas of Venezuela for months prepping this thing. In the

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Speaker 5: Intel right laying the ground where for you know, traders

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Speaker 5: and treasoners and treesons u Venezuelans and and patriotic Venezuelans

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Speaker 5: who wanted to see that the regime change to cooperate

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Speaker 5: with our guys. And then Delta Force assisted by the

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Speaker 5: hundred and Safety Airborne or Air Air Assault Regiment and

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Speaker 5: Aviation Regiment, the n Ice Soccer's getting down there and

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Speaker 5: into Venezuela in the middle of the night, and and

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Speaker 5: Holly Maduro out of his fortress and brand of justice

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Speaker 5: in America. Just one hundred percent exquisite operation from start

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Speaker 5: to finish.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe it is legal to have done this?

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Speaker 5: We got, we got There was a warrant out for

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Speaker 5: his arrest, It was indicted for drugs. This is not

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Speaker 5: There was a lot of political reasons to do it,

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Speaker 5: but this was a strict enforcement effort backed by the

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Speaker 5: Biden administration when they were in office, and it was

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent legal. He's now facing justice, and look,

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Speaker 5: he's pretty lucky to be in a New York court

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Speaker 5: when New York courts haven't been very generous to Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump over the past few years. So well, you know,

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Speaker 5: he's got a fair and impartial Clinton appointed judge, and

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Speaker 5: we'll see how the case goes. But it looks pretty

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Speaker 5: rock solid to me.

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Speaker 1: Asked on Air Force One yesterday, what happened is next,

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Speaker 1: President Trump answered that depends I think that made a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense to me. But what do you think

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Speaker 1: it depends upon? Most ambachelor O'Brien.

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Speaker 5: Well, it depends on how Delasi Rodriguez in the Tough

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Speaker 5: East as the decided to play this. Look, they're a

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Speaker 5: political party in Venezuela. They have some support, maybe twenty

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Speaker 5: thirty percent of the votes in Venezuela. They continue to

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Speaker 5: participate in the process, have free and fair elections and

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Speaker 5: maybe have a role in a future sure, or they

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Speaker 5: can be debathified like they would like the Saddam Hussein

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Speaker 5: loyal in Iraq. And I think what President Trump and

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Speaker 5: Marco Rubio and John Radcliffe are looking at is in

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Speaker 5: Pete hayesith is what happened in Iraq, and we disbanded

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Speaker 5: the Iraqi Army and disbanded the government and then that

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Speaker 5: was chaos and isis arose and I think they're looking

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Speaker 5: for a reasonable transition. There's a very well forward opposition

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Speaker 5: in Venezuela led by Edmunde good Gonzalez, who was elected

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Speaker 5: president with like two thirds of vote and just last

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Speaker 5: year he's in Spain. He'll be coming back. You've got

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Speaker 5: Ridam Machado, the Nobel Prize winner. You've got Juan Guido,

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Speaker 5: who is the acting president and the foreign president of

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Speaker 5: National Assembly. He's an excellent he'll be coming back to Venezuela.

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Speaker 5: So that is a very strong opposition. I'm sure they're

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Speaker 5: learning into the negotiations with Elsi Rodriguez, the current vice president,

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Speaker 5: and we'll have a transition government and then get onto

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Speaker 5: the business having framefare elections.

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Speaker 1: Now the Minister of the Interior and the head of

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Speaker 1: their military have not changed, but I assume they are

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Speaker 1: involved in conversations with Secretary of Rubio and perhaps the agency.

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Speaker 1: Is that your assumption as well, That's my assumption.

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Speaker 5: And they'll be doing those negotiations in Spanish. Marco speaks

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Speaker 5: fluent Spanish. They'll be negotiated with him, and he knows

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Speaker 5: the regions very well. He's got a great team of people,

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Speaker 5: including folks like Murca clopp for Coron who used to

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Speaker 5: work for me, was the envoy for the region for

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Speaker 5: a while. And they they'll take care of business. And look,

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Speaker 5: they understand what happened to Maduro. None of those guys

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Speaker 5: want to be seen in the New York courtroom. So

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Speaker 5: they've got an opportunity here to play ball and cooperate

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Speaker 5: and potentially preserve a political future for themselves in Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Rubio on Saturday and that extraordinary press conference.

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Speaker 1: President Trump does not play games. End of quote. You

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Speaker 1: worked with him closely for two years or his NSA

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Speaker 1: at the end of his first term, how do you

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Speaker 1: how do you read President Trump does not play games?

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Speaker 5: Well, Marco is exactly right, and he's got my old

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Speaker 5: position as well as means Secretary of State, the first

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Speaker 5: person since Senator Kissinger in the whole both offices, and

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Speaker 5: the poor guy's working his tail off. But he's doing

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Speaker 5: a great job. And what he means is this is

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump always presents the parties with a fair deal.

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Speaker 5: He's an incredibly reasonable, pragmatic man. And in this case,

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Speaker 5: he offered Maduro several off rams. He could have gone

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Speaker 5: to Moscow or Beijing or Havana and left and and

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Speaker 5: you know, left on his own terms and turned things over.

431
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 5: He decided not to decided to play a tough guy

432
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 5: with Donald Trump, and he looked he thought he could

433
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 5: leverage us with his illegal immigration, send in Trinido aregised

434
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 5: to the United States, sending cocaine and fentanyld under minus,

435
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 5: inviting Hezbollah and Iran and China into the region. He

436
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 5: thought all those things that'd give them an advantage. They didn't.

437
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 5: Donald Trump doesn't play games, and he called his bluff

438
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 5: and he Maduro is now in a Brooklyn jail, in

439
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 5: a New York City courthouse, and so you know, he Trump.

440
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 5: Trump gave him a lot of opportunities. He didn't take them.

441
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 5: And look, this is what happens. It happened to Bagdaddy,

442
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: it having to soul the money, happened to a lot

443
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 5: of others. And when they didn't take the deal, they lost.

444
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 5: Having the eye toll was a few months ago with

445
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 5: the Operation Midnight Hammer, with the nuclear program. Trump said,

446
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 5: look open your facilities to full inspections, and you know,

447
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 5: stop making a bomb and we'll leave you alone. And

448
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 5: the Iranians gave us the middle finger, and they saw

449
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 5: what happened.

450
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Now. The most extraordinary statement in that press conference I

451
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: listened to it live, is there's no transcripts. I'm doing

452
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: this from memory. He either said President Trump either said

453
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: all of life is a deal or life is a deal,

454
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: meaning everything is the negotiation. Is that the essence of

455
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: Donald Trump right there, very very much.

456
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 5: So, I mean, look, he's and it goes back to

457
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: my comin. He's not an ideologue. He's a very pragmatic guy.

458
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 5: He wants what His only ideology is a deep love

459
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 5: for America. Donald Trump loves America like no nobody I've

460
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 5: ever met, kind of kind of like Ronald Reagan, and

461
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 5: he wants for it's best for his country, and he'll

462
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 5: he'll cut deals. I mean, look, he's he's shown that,

463
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: he's shown he's been He was very reasonable with Kim John.

464
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 5: He was very reasonable with cheating pain. Recently he's offered

465
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 5: Puttin a great deal and Putin's refusing that deal, which

466
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 5: is kind of surprising to me. So he's he's always

467
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 5: willing to make a deal for peace and in the

468
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 5: killing and he he war with these raids are a

469
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: last option for President Trump. He even farwaver for doing

470
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 5: the deal and doing things peacefully, and I think we've

471
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 5: seen that. But if you push them too far, like

472
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 5: Maduro did, you know, he found out what happens.

473
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: I won't come back to Venezuela in a moment. But

474
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: the President has also made a threat to Iran that

475
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: if they kill protesters, and fourteen people are alleged to

476
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: be dead according to Reuters over the weekend, as Iran

477
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: convulsives with protests, he will take action. What should the

478
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: Iotolhamini and the IOGC understand about that threat.

479
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 5: Well, look, I saw today that the Iotola is already

480
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 5: making plans to go to Moscow if President Trump enforces

481
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 5: is s edict. So that's very good planning. Surprisingly, you know,

482
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 5: the Iranian people who should be wealthy and doing well,

483
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 5: have had a very difficult time economically. They can't get water,

484
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 5: they know, they're lacking food stuffs. They said the Iotola

485
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 5: has got ninety five billion dollars story away that he's

486
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 5: going to take with him to Russia, which is crazy.

487
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 5: But so I think the Iatola and the moles are

488
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 5: already making plans to get out of Dodge if they

489
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 5: cracked it on these protesters, which they apparently are doing.

490
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 5: There was some open source information in the news. I

491
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 5: don't know what it means that a lot of the

492
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 5: one hundred and sixtieth Aviation Regiment, the Nice Soccers for

493
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 5: moving to England and moving to Europe, which they did

494
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 5: before the last attack on Iran. So you know, we'll

495
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 5: have to see what happens. But I don't think the

496
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 5: President's going to sit back and watching this. Some people

497
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 5: be killed like Obama did in the Green Revolution when

498
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 5: he signed with the Moles and ad Toolls or the

499
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 5: people of Iran. I think that the president live r

500
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 5: other side of the people of Iran over the Moles

501
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 5: and the Iatolls.

502
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: Okay, let me go back to Venezuela. The last American

503
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: oil company operating there is Chevron. The others were expropriated

504
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: and they were screwed. They won international arbitration awards. It

505
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: is a country's right to exppropriate industry, but they have

506
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: to pay for them, and they've been screwed. What do

507
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: you think Chevron ought to do? I to be standing

508
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: by and willing to rebuild that what has basically rushed

509
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: it out twenty five years? We got a minute left

510
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: bachelor one hundred percent.

511
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 5: Chevron Ceo worked is a very smart guy. Chevron's hung

512
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 5: in there under very difficult circumstances. A lot of people

513
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 5: criticize them for it. I was actually in favor of

514
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 5: Chevron's staying there and keep an American presence, hoping that

515
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 5: something like this would happen, so Chevron can be the league,

516
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 5: and I think the other American oil companies should get

517
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 5: in there. But again, this is not to take the

518
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 5: oil from the Venezuelan people. This is to produce the

519
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 5: oil from the Venezuelan people. Make Venezuela great again, make

520
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 5: Venezuela rich again, make the people healthy, wealthy and happy,

521
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 5: and at the same time given the American oil companies

522
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 5: a chance to produce and then make a profit as

523
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 5: well on the contracts that they owned.

524
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 1: A bachelor and Roberts the O'Brien, former National security advisor

525
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump, still a member of the Presidential Advisory

526
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Board on Intel and the chairman of American Global Strategy.

527
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for spending time us on a very busy newsday.

528
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: I know you're in demand everywhere and I appreciate the time,

529
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: Old Brent, Ambassador Robert O'Brien, thank you. Welcome back to America.

530
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewitt. There are two stories going on in

531
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: the world that are major. Of course, the United States

532
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: capture of Maduro and his spouse, and in Iran there

533
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: are convulsions on the streets. To talk about the latter,

534
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: and maybe in a comment on the former, I'm joined

535
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: by doctor Michael Urn, former Israeli Ambassador to the United States.

536
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: He's also the founder of the Israel Advocacy Group. Doctor Orrin. Welcome.

537
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: Let's start with the latter. How do you react to

538
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: the remarkable operation conducted by the US military on the

539
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning Saturday morning.

540
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 6: From an it's really perspective you great news, that's great news.

541
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 7: Listen. Generally speaking, Israel has an interest.

542
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 6: In having in America that is willing and able to

543
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 6: project power around the world, even if I would even

544
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 6: prefer a president who is critical of Israel but willing

545
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 6: to project power over a president who made love US

546
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 6: an unwilling to protect power, because that's America's interest. And

547
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 6: I think it's not just That's interests also not just

548
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 6: Israel's interest. It's every ally of the United States, Germany,

549
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 6: South Korea, Japan. We all want that strong, tough projecting America.

550
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 7: And that's what we've seen now in Venezuela, and.

551
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 6: That increases, that enhances the security of all of us,

552
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 6: all of us, and then more specifically, Maduro is a

553
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 6: great friend of Iran, a great friends. His Bolah, his

554
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 6: Bulla operates out of Venezuela. It operates it's drug trade

555
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 6: out of Venezuela. It's a huge blow to Iran, and

556
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 6: it sends an unequivocal message to our common enemies, whether

557
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 6: it be mister Petro in Colombia, the Cubans, everyone's unnotice.

558
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 6: Now you don't mess with this guy and mister Trump

559
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 6: meaning and.

560
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 7: That redounds to our benefit.

561
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 6: It certainly does, and it directly related to what's happening

562
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 6: in Iran today.

563
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: Let's go to what's happening in Iran. I am hungry

564
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: for news, and the only place I can find it

565
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: about up to date news in Iran is actually at

566
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: the Times of Israel, and even it's a little bit

567
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: behind AP and Reuters gives us a detail here in

568
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: a detail there. What sort of a crisis is this

569
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: for the regime in Iran that they're going through right now?

570
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 6: I think we have to distiguis between what's going on

571
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 6: in Iran in the last few days, what's going to

572
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 6: happen next couple of days, and what's happening.

573
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 7: In the longer term in Iran.

574
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 6: Okay, we've seen this film before where people come to

575
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 6: the streets and the Iran regime has an m where

576
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 6: they let people sort of blow off steam for a

577
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 6: week or two. A couple dozen people may get killed,

578
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 6: but finally they're going to come down like the proverbial

579
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 6: ton of bricks on this revolt. That's the way it

580
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 6: was in two thousand and nine. That's the way it

581
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 6: was in twenty twenty two with the women's revolt, which

582
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 6: was very brutally suppressed. And we're going to see because

583
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 6: this regime has tremendous power at its disposal. It has

584
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 6: the IRGC, the Revolutionary Guards, the it has the army,

585
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 6: It has a a group of thugs called the Besiege

586
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 6: who come out with baseball bats and beat these people

587
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 6: over the head. They haven't come out with their big

588
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 6: guns yet, and they're not going to go quietly into

589
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 6: that dark night. I guarantee you. There's a question whether

590
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 6: they may want to pick a fight with us in

591
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 6: order to detract attention from their domestic woes.

592
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 7: Maybe try to rally the people.

593
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 6: That's possibility, and we have been very vigilant about that. Okay,

594
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 6: so what's happening. They may succeed in suppressing this revolt

595
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 6: for a week or two, but the fact of the

596
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 6: matter is the longevity of this regime is now very

597
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 6: much in question. They have been humiliated by Israel, humiliated

598
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 6: by the United States. They have no electricity, they have

599
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 6: no water, their currency, the reality has lost sixty percent

600
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 6: of its worth. Women are no longer wearing headcoverings in

601
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 6: the street. It's days are numbered one way or the other.

602
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 6: And Iran's not coming back. They've now just lost this

603
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 6: ally in Venezuela. They've lost Syria, They've lost Lebanon, They've

604
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 6: lost Gaza. What's left? What's left for this regime?

605
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 7: Not much? And the quicker it goes, the better.

606
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: So how do you believe the Mullahs in the IRGC

607
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: understand President Trump's threat to intervene if they kill protesters.

608
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: What do they hear when they hear that.

609
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 7: I think they not just hear it.

610
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 6: They saw what happened with Maduro and they're going to

611
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 6: take it very very seriously. And you know, if I

612
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 6: were there, I could be making my travel plans to Moscow.

613
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: Now there is a element in the West, especially in

614
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: the United States, arguing that we'll make it worse if

615
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: we get on involved in Iran in any way, for example,

616
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: strikes on the IRGC or the besiege headquarters, or if

617
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: Israel does the same thing. What's your response to that,

618
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: You only make it worse, crowd.

619
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 7: You know, it's like that bag. You know, there was

620
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 7: an old.

621
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 6: Holocaust joke quote unquote about too Jews about be executed

622
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 6: by the s S and the s S officers making

623
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 6: fun of them, and says, you know, any last words,

624
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 6: and once you raises his hand together, Jude puts his

625
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 6: hand down and says, well, hey.

626
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 7: We're in enough trouble as it is.

627
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 6: Okay, And it's true of many things, We're enough trouble

628
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 6: as it is. I generally speaking, I think it's good

629
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 6: that the Israel keeps a low profile.

630
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 7: For the time being. We can help the revolt quietly.

631
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 6: But the United States is a superpower, and I says,

632
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 6: can wield his power in ways that even we can't.

633
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 6: And and if it would bring about the fall of

634
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 6: this regime by some kinetic intervention, I think that's certainly

635
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 6: within the power and the proven record of this president.

636
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: Now they've executed almost two thousand people since the Twelve

637
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: Day War. Do you think they are afraid of people

638
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: within the ordinary Iranian army, which is separate from the IRGC,

639
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: or even the IERGC deciding maybe Hamani and the Mulas

640
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: are not worth the trouble. We want to keep our

641
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: thing going.

642
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 6: I think after last summer they wou'd be foolish not

643
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 6: to be afraid, because Israel knew where those scientists were living,

644
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 6: they knew where senior commanders were living, they knew where

645
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 6: so many of the.

646
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 7: Rockets were situated.

647
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 6: The degree to which Israeli intelligence, to say something of

648
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 6: American intelligence, had penetrated Iranian leadership and the Ilana military

649
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 6: and the r GC is certainly reason for all of

650
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 6: those Mullas to be shaken in their boots.

651
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: All right, last question, Ambassador Orn, what did you make

652
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: of the Netahu Trump meetings last week? How were they

653
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: received in Israel?

654
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 7: Well, they're very well.

655
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: Listen.

656
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 7: I was personally surprised.

657
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 6: I thought that the president would be more constrained, giving

658
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 6: what's happened inside his own White House, inside the MAGA movement,

659
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 6: with the you know, the criticism that he has not

660
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 6: lived up to what he had promised to his voters

661
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 6: to be put America first, as if you know, getting

662
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 6: rid of a brutal drug dictator or even helping Christians

663
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 6: in Nigeria who are threatened with Islamic extremists is not

664
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 6: putting America first. But leave that aside. I thought he'd

665
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 6: be more constrained, and he surprised me. He kept that

666
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 6: credible military threat on the table. And Hugh, that is

667
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 6: the key to everything that's going to happen in the

668
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 6: Middle East from now on. Keeping that credible military threat

669
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 6: on the table means a week that Israel could have

670
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 6: peace with Lebanon, peace with Syria, who knows, maybe in

671
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 6: peace with the Iran and certainly peace with Saudi Arabia.

672
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 6: We're in a region where people respect strength and that's

673
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 6: what the America is showing here and thrue strength will

674
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 6: get peace.

675
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: Doctor Michael Urran, thank you for joining me. Follow him

676
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: at Dr Michael Lauran, Doctor Michael Oran on x. The

677
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: Azeril Advocacy group founded by doctor Oran also worth your

678
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: attention online. Don't go on in or America. I'm de Hewett,

679
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: Morning Laurin. Even Grace America from the Relief Stock Relief

680
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: Factor Studio West. I'm Hugh Hewett. It was like the

681
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: Winter Olympic bad takes in the aftermath of the American

682
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: Operation Absolute Resolve that got Nicholas Maduro in his spouse

683
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: out of the military base in the middle of Caracas

684
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: and to the United States, where he's under a wrist

685
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: in a waiting trial in Brooklyn, and the bad takes

686
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: mounted up like so many books in a library. Luckily,

687
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: I am friends with Dan Rundy. Dan is a senior

688
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He's

689
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: the author of the wonderful book The American Imperative. And

690
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: by the time it was noon on the West Coast,

691
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: I've gotten an eight page briefing paper on Venezuela from

692
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: Dan on Saturday morning. It makes it sound like he's

693
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the desk officer for the Agency for Venezuela.

694
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 4: He's not.

695
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: He's just actually pretty smart about South America. Dan, welcome,

696
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: when last week we met at our favorite watering hole

697
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: in downtown d C. In December, you gave me the

698
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: rundown of South America. The good guys are Argentina, Bolivia,

699
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: and Chile right now. The bad guys are Cuba. Always

700
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: Nicaragua and Venezuela. So with that taking off point, what

701
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: do you make of what happened on Saturday in the

702
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: early morning hours of Saturday and what gender still on

703
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: the table? You got a lot of runway run with it,

704
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: mister Rundy.

705
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 8: Thanks, thanks a lot you. I'm happy to be here.

706
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 9: It was like a late Christmas present to see what

707
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 9: happened to Nicholas Maduro and his wife.

708
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 8: These are very bad people.

709
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

710
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 9: You know that Venezuela is a complicated place, and a

711
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 9: lot of people can can justifiably talk about all the

712
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 9: complexities of Venezuela. But President Trump, with this amazing action,

713
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 9: with the with the help of our amazing military and

714
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 9: our amazing intelligence services, cut the Gordian knot, cut the

715
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 9: complexity and made it simple again. May He's created a

716
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 9: new scenario for us to operate from. He wants five

717
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 9: things from Venezuela. He wants us to stop he wants

718
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 9: Venezuela to stop the drugs. He wants Venezuela to cooperate

719
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 9: with justice. He wants to see the country stabilized. He

720
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 9: wants the enormal energy operation, normal energy pol I see

721
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 9: in Venezuela. It's been run in a crazy way, and

722
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 9: they and President Trump wants Venezuela to stop exporting chaos.

723
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 9: I was so happy to see this happen, and I

724
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 9: thought the operation that was carried out over the weekend

725
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 9: was one of the best things that that I've heard

726
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 9: in a long time. I mean, it's been a year

727
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 9: of a lot of good news and foreign policy, whether

728
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 9: it's the the operation in Iran and now what's happened

729
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 9: in Venezuela. And so I think we owe a big

730
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 9: debt of gratitude to President Trump, our amazing military and

731
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 9: our amazing intelligence service. And he he has created new

732
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 9: leverage on the remaining Maduro regime in the in the

733
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 9: hands of.

734
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 10: Delsi Rodriguez to say, look, we've got the top two

735
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 10: copos of your mafia state under arrest, and we're also

736
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 10: holding your oil exports under embargo until you make some changes.

737
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 9: So he's got a lot of leverage. And so I

738
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 9: think it's really an exciting moment. I'm really gratified to

739
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 9: see where we are.

740
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: Dan Rondie, let's ground this in the reality of the

741
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: complexity that you mentioned at the beginning. You immediately told me, Hugh,

742
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: remember there are twenty three thousand Americans there. Do you

743
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: think anyone would dare touch an American in Venezuela right

744
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: now from the security services? Would they not be asking

745
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: to get blown up?

746
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 8: They're asking to get blown up.

747
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 9: We talk a lot in the foreign policy world about

748
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 9: resetting deterrence. President Trump with this action really reset deterrence.

749
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 9: That's just a fancy way of saying you better not

750
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 9: mess with us, and that there's a credible threat. After

751
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 9: what happened over the weekend, there's a credible threat. So

752
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 9: if they messed with American citizen in Venezuela, it would

753
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 9: not be a really good idea for the security services

754
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 9: to do that. It is a complicated place. It's a

755
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,760
Speaker 9: divided society in many ways.

756
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: Did you freeze on me there, Dan, Yeah.

757
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 9: Are certainly at the very least right. We want what

758
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 9: we want to see is behave, certainly behavioral change. You know,

759
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 9: I know that Senator Cotton was on the show earlier

760
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 9: today and he talked about this on the Sunday shows,

761
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 9: that we want to have behavioral change in Venezuela. Like

762
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 9: I said, stop the drugs, cooperate with justice, behave like

763
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 9: a normal country, and that you know, Venezuela, you used

764
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 9: to be a really wealthy place. It was wealthier than

765
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 9: places like Chili forty years ago. It was a stable place.

766
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 9: It was an ally of the United States, and under

767
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 9: Chavez and Maduro became a partner of Iran and let

768
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 9: in Hezbealab partnered with the Russians and the Chinese Communist Party.

769
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 9: These are and then you know, had this very mobbed

770
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 9: up relationship with the Cubans. It's a very bad place.

771
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: Now, Dad, Runny. One of your data points you sent

772
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: me and I do people should have like Dan so

773
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,959
Speaker 1: you don't have to talk through your hat. I got

774
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: this long memo from Dan on things I needed No

775
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: it was great. I knew what I was talking about

776
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: on kill Me last night because I'd read it. I

777
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: had no idea that between twenty and thirty percent of

778
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: the population actually considered themselves Chevistas. Who are they and

779
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: why are they Chevistas?

780
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 8: You know you.

781
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 9: I made a trip to Venezuela in twenty twelve and

782
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 9: one of the things that shocked me this was during

783
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 9: right after Hugo Chavs had died. And what shocked me

784
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 9: when I was in Caracas Venezuela was that you drove

785
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 9: around and you did see some signs of support for

786
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 9: the Chavez Maduro regime. It's not the majority of the people,

787
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 9: but there is a percentage of the people in the

788
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 9: country that support this government. Some of it is because

789
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 9: they give them jobs, some is because they give them money.

790
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 9: Some of it is because there are poor parts of

791
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 9: Venezuela that maybe had been overlooked in the past, and

792
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 9: this government had done given them free stuff, if I

793
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 9: can put it that way, and had sort of bought allegiance,

794
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 9: if I can put it that way. So there is

795
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 9: a percentage of the population that does support the regime.

796
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 9: It's not a majority. It's probably twenty percent. It could

797
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 9: be as high as thirty percent. Nobody knows because it's

798
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 9: an authoritarian regime. But with President Trump's action over the weekend,

799
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 9: we have the opportunity to have a different future for Venezuela.

800
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 9: The vast majority of people don't want this government.

801
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: And the Interior ministry.

802
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 8: If you have there were elections, sorry, go ahead.

803
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: The Interior minister there and not like Doug Bergham, right,

804
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: he's not taking care of the national parks. He's the

805
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: secret police. What are the odds?

806
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's a whole series. Yeah, there's a whole authoritarian

807
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 9: regime setup. There's the military, there's the secret police. They

808
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 9: also have armed citizens that are aligned with the government.

809
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 9: That are these are you know, sort of like your

810
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 9: local neighborhood militia, if I can put it that way.

811
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 9: That's you know, that's on the payroll of the of

812
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 9: the the Chavistas. So this is a very it's a

813
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 9: police state, it's an authoritarian regime. They have repressed human rights.

814
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 9: They have cheated on elections multiple times, including most recently

815
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 9: in twenty twenty four. The person who won the election

816
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 9: at Mundo Gonzalez was not allowed to take possession of

817
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 9: the government.

818
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 8: So you've had this a very.

819
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 9: This is a thug thug regime, it's a narco terrorist state.

820
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: What do the other countries of South America think about this?

821
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: Obviously Colombia has gone left, Bolivia has gone right, Chile

822
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: has gone right, Argentina has gone right. But within the region,

823
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: what do they think about swooping in and grabbing the

824
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: top narco and then getting out.

825
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 9: So most of the countries may how about this. Many

826
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 9: of the countries in the region, our allies are relieved

827
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 9: to see this happen. Argentina has supported this, and is

828
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 9: you've had Paraguay and.

829
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 8: Bolivia supported this.

830
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 9: So serious countries with serious leaders have gotten behind President

831
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 9: Trump's action. You have a crazy person in the President

832
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 9: Petro of Columbia who's insane. Now, thankfully you he is

833
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 9: leaving later this year there are elections in Columbia.

834
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 8: He can't run again.

835
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 9: I do think him having a fight with President Trump

836
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 9: helps the cuckoo left candidate who's trying to replace him,

837
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 9: And so we need to be a little bit careful

838
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 9: of kind of playing into President Petro of Columbia's getting

839
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 9: into fights with President Trump because there's some percentage of

840
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 9: the Colombian population that you know that supports crazy President Petro.

841
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,240
Speaker 9: But he's you know, he's a substance abuser, he's a PHO,

842
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 9: makes a lot of bad personal choices. He's nuts, so

843
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 9: he's not a serious person. Unfortunately, the President of Mexico

844
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:14,479
Speaker 9: has also chosen to take a similar position to President Petro.

845
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 9: But overall, it's you know a collection of loser countries

846
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 9: like Cuba, Nicaragua, who you know, who've screamed. But really

847
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 9: I think there's significant relie if you look at the

848
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 9: joy in the faces, and then you've seen dancing in

849
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 9: the streets by ordinary Venezuelans. Venezuelans, eight million Venezuelans you

850
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 9: had to flee the country because of the mismanagement of

851
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 9: this narco state in Venezuela.

852
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 7: They've all left.

853
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 9: It's one of the largest refugee populations in the world

854
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,479
Speaker 9: are Venezuelans who've left Venezuelan in the last twenty years

855
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 9: because this wealthy country was driven into the ground by

856
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 9: this this mafia, this mafia group financed by drugs.

857
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: All right, when we come back, Dan Rundy's going to

858
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: stay here and we're talking about the three c's, China,

859
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: and Chevron, and Dan's going to have a memo ready

860
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 1: on the implications for each of those three and he's

861
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 1: going to have advice for Chevron on what to do next.

862
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: And then he's going to tell us about Nicaragua and Cuba.

863
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere America. Rundy knows what he's talking about,

864
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: which is unlike about ninety five percent of the people

865
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: I've seen on media this weekend. So stay tuned to

866
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: the qq At Chef Welcome back. I'm quq At. Dan

867
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: Rundy is my guest senior fellow at the Center for

868
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: Strategic International Studies in Washington, d C. And one of

869
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: the few subject matter experts on Central and South America DAN.

870
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: A few years ago when Secretary Pompeo would hold his

871
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: Madison dinners, especially missus Hewitt, and I went and I

872
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: sat across from Michael Wirth, who's the CEO of Chevron,

873
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: and I just thought, this is the smartest guy in

874
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: the room, mother not named Pompeo. If you're running Chevron,

875
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: you've obviously got subject matter experts and country experts. What

876
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: ought they to be considering right now in the aftermath

877
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: of the Maduro expatriation to the United States.

878
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 9: So Chevron is the only American company operating currently in Venezuela.

879
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 9: It's it's been granted a special license by the previously

880
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 9: the Biden administration as well as.

881
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 8: The current Trump administration.

882
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 9: Other American oil companies like Exon Mobile had their assets

883
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 9: nationalized in the last fifteen years, and so it's been

884
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 9: a risky and complicated arrangement for Chevron to operate in Venezuela.

885
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 9: And there have been a number of reasons for that

886
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 9: given what happened over the last three days. Chevron's in

887
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 9: a unique first mover advantage because it has assets on

888
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 9: the ground and has maintained a relationship that hasn't broken

889
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 9: its relationship, either with the United States or with Venezuela.

890
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 8: Now, the.

891
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 9: High water mark you of oil production in Venezuela was

892
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 9: nineteen ninety and I think it was three point five

893
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 9: million barrels of oil a day. And there's lots of

894
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 9: what's the price of oil, and a whole bunch of

895
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 9: other things that would be needed. Right now, it's about

896
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 9: a half a million to a million barrels of oil

897
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 9: a day is sort of what they estimate for Venezuela.

898
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 9: So to get back to that kind of level is

899
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 9: an enormous amount of money, and you'd need there's a

900
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 9: bunch of there's a whole complicated string of things you'd

901
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 9: have to unpack, like who controls these assets, did they

902
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 9: promise these assets as part of loans to people? Is

903
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 9: it safe to invest in the country, is there some

904
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 9: level of security, et cetera, et cetera. But assuming you

905
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 9: you could get all of those things that the estimates

906
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 9: are fifty billion dollars one hundred billion dollars, nobody really knows,

907
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,959
Speaker 9: and it could take five or ten years to get

908
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 9: back to the levels of production, back to the high

909
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 9: water mark of oil production in Venezuela. So could Chevron

910
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 9: do something like that potentially.

911
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: Yes.

912
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 9: They spend about twenty billion dollars a year on big

913
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 9: investment projects. They have a number of big investment projects

914
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 9: in places like Kazakhstan and Angola. They do a lot

915
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 9: of energy investing in the United States. Think thanks to fracking,

916
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 9: and you know the the energy miracle we've seen in

917
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 9: the last ten years in America with fracking, and we

918
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 9: owe cheve run a debt of thanks for all the They're.

919
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 8: One of the folks that have helped make fracking possible

920
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 8: for America.

921
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: So if they're doing a whiteboard and no doubt they've

922
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 1: been whiteboarding exercise all weekend. I've been at CSIS when

923
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: Dan Rundy is one run one of these seminars, and

924
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm astonished by what kind of factors they have to

925
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: take into account before they make another dollars worth of investment.

926
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: What's on their whiteboard Up in northern California where Chevron is,

927
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: I don't think they've left chat what's on their their

928
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: whitebo I think.

929
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 8: There's several things.

930
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 9: One would be is what, you know, what they first

931
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 9: want to talk to the United States governance say, are

932
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 9: we you know, is this something you want to you

933
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 9: know that you know, to make sure that they're following

934
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 9: the law, and they want to obey the rules of

935
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 9: the United States. They always you know, they're they're they're

936
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 9: a good citizen, they're a great company. Then they'd want

937
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 9: to make sure that if they invested that they weren't

938
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 9: going to have their assets nationalized later. What kind of

939
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 9: guarantees are they for that? And what kind of government

940
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 9: are we talking about? And then uh, you know, so

941
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 9: I think there's any number of different questions like that.

942
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 9: I mean, there's a lot of the debt in there's

943
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 9: a lot of debt in Venezuela. Some of that debt

944
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 9: is associated with the energy business, whether it's to suppliers

945
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 9: or whether it's saying hey, please lend please Government of China,

946
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 9: lend me some money and I'll use this collateral this

947
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 9: oil well or the assets in this oil field. So

948
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 9: they'd want to understand, like, well, if I drill in

949
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 9: this oil field, is this is the are the the

950
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 9: assets are kind of spoken for? In some loan that

951
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 9: they've loaned to China. So there's a whole series of

952
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 9: complicated things like.

953
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 1: That, Well, who is going to be driving the day

954
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: to day bus on this over at the Department of

955
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,280
Speaker 1: State and at the Central Intelligence Agency? Do you expect

956
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: that there's a task force and what I'll call normalization

957
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: of relations with a bad actor regime? That's what we're trying.

958
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: It's like Libya following the invasion of Iraq. They opened

959
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: their kimono and then we went and got their WMD

960
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: and we did a deal and was very secret. Where

961
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: will that be run out of dan? Who's going to

962
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: have the lead? I know Secretary Rubio can't do everything.

963
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: He's running everything right now, but.

964
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 8: No Secretary Rubio can't do everything.

965
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 9: But I expect this is going to largely fall to

966
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 9: the Department of State, but there'll be an inner agency team.

967
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 8: I also think what's important to you is.

968
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 9: I think all of the folks in the Trump administration

969
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 9: are cognizant of the experience of Iraq, which I was

970
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 9: supportive of the US invasion of Iraq and I supported

971
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 9: what President Bush did, But I think that from maybe

972
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 9: perhaps in the minority, but I would at this point,

973
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 9: but I would say that there were are. I think

974
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 9: many people saw it as a cautionary tale. So I

975
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 9: don't think we want to get I think they're they're

976
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 9: seeking not They're trying to entice and work with the

977
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 9: government that is currently you know, in place, to try

978
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 9: and do behavioral change on a number of front stop

979
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 9: the drugs, as I said, or rather cooperate with justice,

980
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 9: stabilize the country, normalize the energy sector. And so I

981
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 9: think part of it is going to be working trying

982
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 9: to work with the existing illegitimate government, if we can

983
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 9: put it that way in place. My hope and expectation

984
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 9: is that this is a trend. They've been using the

985
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 9: word transition, that this is ultimately a transition government, and

986
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 9: that over the next period of time, maybe over the

987
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 9: next six to twelve months, we either have hopefully new

988
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 9: elections and the good guys win, you know. Ultimately, I

989
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 9: think ed Mundo Gonzalez, who's the who should be the

990
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 9: rightful president of Venezuela, and Maria Corina Machado, who won

991
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 9: the Nobel Peace Prize who should be the rightful vice

992
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 9: president of Venezuela, will get a chance to run again,

993
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 9: and that we give a chance for the Venezuelan people

994
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 9: have real, free and fair elections as a result of

995
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 9: what President Trump did over the weekend, and as a result,

996
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 9: we have a government that that's a legitimate government that

997
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 9: we can actually work with. That would be my hope.

998
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 9: But it's maybe that, maybe six or twelve months down

999
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 9: the road.

1000
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 8: You mentioned the time, we have to work with this,

1001
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 8: this these thugs.

1002
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: You mentioned to me that there are a lot of

1003
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: guns in Venezuela in the hands of a lot.

1004
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 8: Of different a lot of guns.

1005
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 1: So we don't want to send a bunch of Americans

1006
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: in there with guns because they become targets like they

1007
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: did in the Sunny Triangle after the invasion of Iraq

1008
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: and we weren't ready for it. Do you expect the

1009
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: internal security services there to turn over a leap? Is

1010
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: that the best case scenario that they talked to But

1011
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: they don't want to end up in a Brooklyn jail.

1012
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 8: Right exactly.

1013
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 9: I think they saw what happened to their head Coppo,

1014
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 9: and I think they're thinking, hmm, maybe I don't want

1015
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 9: to get droned, or I don't want to have door

1016
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 9: kickers come for me in the middle of the night.

1017
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 9: I do think that's an incentive, and it's it's a

1018
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 9: way of which to concentrate the mind on behavioral change.

1019
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 8: We've heard this over the last several days.

1020
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 9: From supporters of the administration, and I'm very supportive what

1021
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 9: the administration did. I thought this was phenomenal. Is we

1022
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 9: want to change, have behavioral change with this, admit with

1023
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 9: this regime, with this, with these really bad actors. Now,

1024
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 9: do I think we want these people to.

1025
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 8: Be in power forever?

1026
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 9: No, we want these Ultimately we'd like to see I

1027
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 9: think we ought to want to see these people go

1028
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 9: and to have a return to the kind of Venezuela

1029
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 9: that we had forty years ago, which was a which

1030
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 9: was a stable, prosperous country and ally of the United

1031
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 9: States that wasn't exporting chaos and it wasn't exporting drugs.

1032
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: I'll be right back, Dan Rundy. We turned to Cuba next,

1033
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: and then China. I'm really to run to the side

1034
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: I think today, But don't go anywhere because Rundy actually

1035
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: knows what he's talking about, and that's very rare in

1036
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: media today on the Venezuelan talking as I've seen this weekend.

1037
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: Stay Tube, Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Ewett, blessed

1038
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: to have Dan Rundy with me, Senior advisor at the

1039
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: csis one of the Keystone think tanks of Washington, DC,

1040
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: and he's the author of the book The American Imperative,

1041
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: which is really a remarkably excellent book. Dan let's talk

1042
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: about Cuba. Secretary Rubio mentioned it in passing that it's

1043
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: run by semi incoherent ninety three year old Rauel Castro

1044
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: and a current dictator. They get their energy from Venezuela.

1045
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: Their security services didn't prove to be very good. What

1046
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: does this mean for Cuba?

1047
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 9: Okay, So Cuba used to get a lot of substats

1048
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 9: from the Soviet Union and on the Soviet Union and fell.

1049
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,479
Speaker 9: There was like a ten year period where they didn't

1050
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 9: get any help from really anybody and they were in deep,

1051
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 9: deep trouble. Then Chaves showed up and bailed out Cuba

1052
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 9: for about twenty years. And as time has gone on,

1053
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 9: because the Chavistas and Maduro folks have mismanaged their economy

1054
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 9: and driven their economy to the ground, they had less

1055
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 9: and less to throw free oil to throw.

1056
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 8: Around, subsidized oil to throw around, and then with.

1057
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 9: Sanctions that the US has imposed, including in especially with

1058
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 9: the Trump administration, it's been even harder and harder to

1059
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 9: get a discounted free oil even if there was any

1060
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 9: to give out from Venezuela to Cuba.

1061
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 8: So they they have a broken economy.

1062
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 9: Thankfully Fidel Castro is dead, and I think Raoul Castro

1063
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 9: has also did. It's run by a guy named DS Canal,

1064
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 9: who's sort of like their chosen thug, you know, communist leader.

1065
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 8: They've thisy ideas.

1066
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,439
Speaker 9: Canal recognized that they're in deep trouble in Cuba economically,

1067
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 9: they've had a drop in tourists them.

1068
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 8: They don't have the kinds of they.

1069
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 9: Have a broken, fake failed socialist economy because socialism doesn't work,

1070
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 9: as you know you and so they have had an

1071
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 9: ideological and security partnership. So the Cubans provided bodyguards to Maduro.

1072
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 9: And I think you saw that the Cubans are having

1073
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 9: two official days of morning because they recognize that our

1074
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 9: armed forces killed thirty two of their security.

1075
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: And we've got a yeah you're back, Dan, go ahead.

1076
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, sorry, can you hear me?

1077
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: Yep? Go ahead, yeah, Just.

1078
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 9: That you know that Cuba, Cuba and Venezuela have had

1079
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 9: and mesh relationship for twenty five years.

1080
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 8: Venezuela's ran out of oil to give them.

1081
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 9: As Venezuel's ran out of oil to give them, Cubas

1082
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,919
Speaker 9: in deeper and deeper economic trouble because Venezuela was sort

1083
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 9: of cuba sugar daddy for a long time in Cuba

1084
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 9: and return provided security and intelligence services to Venezuela. And

1085
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 9: as you saw the thirty two bodyguards or the security

1086
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 9: folks from Cuba that were killed by our armed forces

1087
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 9: because they were protecting Maduro, it says a lot.

1088
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 8: So I think hopefully Cuba's on its last legs.

1089
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 9: And can you imagine you if in the next twelve

1090
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 9: months we had some kind of state, we have a

1091
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 9: stable transition to something a heck a lot better in Venezuela,

1092
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 9: we have the mulahs leave town in Tehran, and sometime

1093
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 9: in the next twenty four months, god willing, the bad

1094
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 9: guys exit stage left in Cuba, all because of the

1095
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 9: actions of President Trump.

1096
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 8: It's amazing.

1097
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: Now with the embargo that is there, do you expect

1098
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: the United States Navy to maintain it's armada and to

1099
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: continue to attempt to embargo the export of hot oil?

1100
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: From Venezuela.

1101
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 8: Certainly.

1102
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 9: I mean President Trump is always thinking about leverage, and

1103
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 9: so you heard Secretary of Ruvio talk about that they're

1104
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 9: going to continue to you, just as they have the

1105
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 9: illegitimate leader Maduro and the first Lady, both indicted criminals,

1106
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 9: basically both indicted subjects. That that's one formal leverage, is

1107
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 9: to have these two thugs in Brooklyn. To have an

1108
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 9: embargo on the energy is also another formal leverage that

1109
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 9: we have over this illegitimate thug regime. So absolutely, I

1110
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 9: expect now whether or not that aircraft carry and I

1111
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 9: know you you and your listeners have become very educated

1112
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 9: on the navy because of I'm a longtime listener of

1113
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 9: your show that you know, you've had a lot of

1114
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 9: naval experts on your show. At some point, the aircraft

1115
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 9: carrier will probably have to go back into port, I

1116
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 9: don't know, sometime maybe in the spring. But we have

1117
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 9: a lot of military assets in the Caribbean, and we're

1118
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 9: using assets like their airfields in Puerto Rico, et cetera.

1119
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 9: And so I think we're going to continue to have

1120
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 9: all the assets that we need, whether it's an aircraft

1121
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 9: care or else. Others to to maintain leverage on the

1122
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 9: on energy. I don't expect us to release that anytime

1123
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 9: soon because it's a it's it's a form of leverage,

1124
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 9: and President Trump likes using leverage strategically.

1125
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: Do you think, Dan, we got thirty seconds and then

1126
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: we'll come back and talk about China that the President

1127
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: will name the equivalent of the fella we sent to

1128
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: you Rock in two thousand and three, whose name is

1129
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: escaping the area grammar right.

1130
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 8: Do you expect CTA?

1131
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: Do you expect one of these sort of super beer?

1132
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 8: No?

1133
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 9: No, No, I don't because I think I think what

1134
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 9: they're trying to do is if I can use the

1135
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 9: term empower the current thus leaders to do the right

1136
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 9: thing and try to use behavior change.

1137
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: Dan, buy one more segment coming up, Don't Go Anywhere.

1138
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: Rundy is on tap for one more segment on the

1139
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: view A show, Welcome Back in America. It's my final

1140
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: segment with Dan Rundy, Senior Fellow at the Center for

1141
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: Strategic International Studies in Washington, DC, author of the book

1142
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: The American Imperative. Dan, it turns out China gets about

1143
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: four to five percent of its oil, a very specific

1144
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: kind of oil from Venezuela and it's refined by independent

1145
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: refiners in China called teapots, and it's used in heavy

1146
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: construction that's now going to stop. What do you expect

1147
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: the Chinese reaction to this to be and what kind

1148
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: of impact will it have on China.

1149
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 9: Well, you've got a really thoughtful audience. But I was

1150
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 9: surprised to hear this, and maybe your audience will be

1151
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 9: surprised to hear this. I was talking to someone in

1152
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 9: preparation for this session talking about China, and it occurred

1153
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 9: to my friend, and I agree with my friend that

1154
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 9: because kinda sees the world, they're the middle Kingdom.

1155
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 8: You know, people have heard that expression that they're the

1156
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 8: center of the world.

1157
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 9: And they sent a delegation of a senior ambassador to

1158
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 9: visit Maduro. I think like six hours or twelve hours before.

1159
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 9: There's a photo off of him, you know, receiving this

1160
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 9: delegation six or twelve hours before. They were still in

1161
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 9: their beds and they couldn't they couldn't mobilize or do

1162
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 9: anything during this time. And so I would not be

1163
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 9: surprised that the Chinese thought the Americans quote unquote did this,

1164
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 9: especially around a visit of our high level delegation.

1165
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 8: Now, I know that sounds.

1166
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 9: Crazy, but I can tell you that the way they

1167
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 9: look at the world and they see themselves as the

1168
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 9: world of revolves around them, that we somehow.

1169
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 8: Did this as a signal to them.

1170
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 9: Now, there is some truth to that in the sense

1171
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 9: that they buy a lot of oil. They buy some

1172
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 9: oil from Venezuela. The oil from Venezuela is this grungey,

1173
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 9: dirty crud.

1174
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 8: It's hard to process, as you were describing.

1175
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 9: And they, you know, they also have lent ton of

1176
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 9: money to Venezuela, some of it they had hoped that

1177
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 9: Venezuela might be part of the Belton Road initiative. Your

1178
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 9: listeners know that China's got this big initiative to build

1179
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 9: roads and infrastructure all over the world, and instead they've had,

1180
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 9: they've gotten, They're getting less than buying less oil from Venezuela.

1181
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 9: The Venezuelans owe them something on the orders of magnitude

1182
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 9: of something like forty billion dollars.

1183
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 8: It's going to be hard for them to pay the

1184
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 8: Chinese back.

1185
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 9: And we were talking earlier in the segment about Okay,

1186
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 9: under what circumstances will people invest in Venezuela. One of

1187
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 9: things we've got to sort out is like how much

1188
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 9: debt does Venezuela currently have and a lot of it's

1189
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 9: owed to China, And will the current debtors be willing

1190
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 9: to take what's called a haircut and reduce some of

1191
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 9: the amount of debt that they have, or instead of

1192
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 9: paying back the debt in twenty thirty, be willing to

1193
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 9: pay the debt having them the debt paid back in

1194
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 9: twenty fifty so that the amount of payments drops. So

1195
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 9: China's got a debt problem with Venezuela. China likes wants

1196
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 9: to buy oil from Venezuela ran in Russia because they

1197
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 9: don't if they ever wanted to invade Taiwan. They want

1198
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 9: to have a series of sources of supply that circumvent

1199
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 9: global sanctions on oil, and so Venezuela is one of

1200
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 9: their sources of supply that was sort of let's call

1201
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 9: it semi sanctioned free if you will, if they ever

1202
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 9: and so losing the Venezuelan oil is a headache for them.

1203
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 9: Not getting paid back their debt is a headache for them.

1204
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 9: And also the fact that they had some Chinese military

1205
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 9: equipment there that didn't work that well in this recent

1206
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 9: operation that we saw. So they're embarrassed and they've got

1207
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 9: some headaches, both economic headaches and they've got some energy

1208
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 9: headaches as a result of what's happened.

1209
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 8: I think that's all to.

1210
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 9: The good, because I don't wish the Chinese Communist Party

1211
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 9: well at all.

1212
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: What's interesting, Dan, and we'll wrap up on this, is

1213
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of outcomes from this operation,

1214
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,439
Speaker 1: which is a in and out two and a half

1215
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: hour masterpiece of special operation. And adamal mcgraven was on

1216
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: the program last week. He said, we've been doing special

1217
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: opps for twenty years. We're getting really good at it.

1218
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: He wasn't talking about Venezuela, but he was talking about

1219
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: special ops. That one of the second order effects has

1220
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: got to be China worried about its supply. But Tehron's

1221
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: got to be worried about Donald Trump threatening them if

1222
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: they start mowing down the centers in the street. Do

1223
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: you think that they take that threat more seriously on

1224
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: this Monday than they did last Friday?

1225
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 8: Absolutely.

1226
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 9: I mentioned earlier you this concept and foreign policy called

1227
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 9: de terrence, right resetting to terrence. It basically means like

1228
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 9: making credible threats. Donald Trump is making credible threats. He

1229
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 9: has basically said, he says, he says he's going to

1230
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 9: do something, and then he does it, as opposed to

1231
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 9: when President Obamas that I'm drawing a line in the

1232
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 9: sand and didn't do anything. This resets deterrence, similar with

1233
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 9: the actions that the United States did with their allies

1234
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 9: Israel against the thug regime in Iran earlier last last year.

1235
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 9: So I think absolutely, from just even from five days ago,

1236
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 9: there's a much more credible threat on the Iranian regime

1237
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 9: of I and I think, thank goodness, President Trump came

1238
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 9: out last week and said, if you mess with the

1239
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 9: protesters on the ground, We're gonna mess with you, thug

1240
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 9: regime Iran.

1241
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 8: I thought that was great.

1242
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 9: Compare that the President Obama you where he basically encouraged

1243
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 9: protesters but then didn't protect them and didn't do anything.

1244
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 8: And so I think President Trump has been.

1245
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 9: Willing to to step forward and say I'm willing to

1246
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,799
Speaker 9: protect the protesters was a phenomenal act. And what happened

1247
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 9: in Venezuela makes it very very clear that he's he's

1248
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 9: willing to back up those words with force, and thank goodness,

1249
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 9: he's willing to do so.

1250
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: Now, last question, Dan, should we be willing to spend

1251
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 1: American dollars to help Venezuela stand up a stable government

1252
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: transition and then uh, free and fair elections in a

1253
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: free market. Should we be willing to invest if the

1254
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: bad guys realize that the clock is ticking like it

1255
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: ran out of time from Maduro and they want to

1256
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: work with us, ought we to spend American dollars there,

1257
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: not soldiers, but dollars.

1258
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 8: Yeah. I think this is a great question you.

1259
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 9: I think there's a belief that there's a lot The

1260
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 9: largest amount of oil reserves in the world are in Venezuela.

1261
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 9: The largest amount of gold reserves in the world are

1262
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 9: in Venezuela. Now, assuming they haven't been pillaged and been

1263
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 9: able to kind of get a real sense of what's

1264
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 9: going on or how much that's been spoken for with

1265
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 9: you know, borrowing money against it, et cetera. There's a

1266
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,759
Speaker 9: lot of resources Venezuela and theory should be a rich country.

1267
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 9: So I do think certainly we should be, at least

1268
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 9: on a lending basis, be willing to provide some money

1269
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 9: on the front end to say we're going to help

1270
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 9: get you back on your.

1271
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 8: Feet and lend you some money to do so.

1272
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 9: I think President Trump is right to say we should

1273
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 9: be we should participate in the upside of a prosperous Venezuela.

1274
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 9: That American workers in the American companies should be at

1275
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 9: the front of the line since we've just helped given

1276
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 9: them a new opportunity. They got the best shot in

1277
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 9: twenty five years. President Trump is providing the best shot

1278
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 9: in twenty five years for Venezuela.

1279
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: That is that is a wonderful way to conclude, Dan Rundy,

1280
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: are you nde? I hope you write this up for

1281
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: people other than talking heads like me, so that every

1282
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: American can read that. It's great to have an expert

1283
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,600
Speaker 1: on hand who's willing to spend an hour with me.

1284
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, Dan Rundy. His book is the American Imperative.

1285
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: It's imperative that you get and read that if you

1286
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: don't understand what's going on in the world. State ture folks.

1287
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: So many people I know are disheartened that our country

1288
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: seems to have forgotten the importance of citizens and they

1289
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: wonder how a strong sense of citizenship might be revived.

1290
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: And so my friends at Hillsdale College have produced a

1291
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,480
Speaker 1: free online course on the topic American Citizenship and Its Decline,

1292
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Speaker 1: taught by historian Victor Davis Hansen. The course traces the

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01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: history of citizenship and explains how it is undermined in

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01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: America today by open borders, by identity politics, by the

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01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: administrative state, and by globalization. Americans taking the course will

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Speaker 1: gain a deeper insight about the connection between citizenship and freedom,

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Speaker 1: and insight they can share with family members, friends, and neighbors.

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Speaker 1: Hillsdale's free online courses are an important component of Hillsdale's

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Speaker 1: mission to reach and teach increasing millions of people on

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Speaker 1: behalf of liberty and the American way of life. So

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Speaker 1: sign up today for Hillsdale's free online course American Citizenship

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Speaker 1: and Its Decline by visiting Hugh for Hillsdale dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's Hugh f R Hillsdale dot com. Hugh for Hillsdale

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01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: dot com. Start your free course today at Hugh for

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01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: hill dot com. Beck ameer, I'm Hugh Hewett. Vic Matis

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01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 1: is a Free Beacon arts and culture and weekend editor.

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01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,760
Speaker 1: If you're not reading the Free Beacon, you should be.

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01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: He's also the cost of the getting Hammered podcast, which

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01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: is back, Vic Maddis, Happy New Year to you. I

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01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 1: was your New Year's Eve party.

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01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 4: Happy to do you to you, Hugh. It was a

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01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 4: great party.

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01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 11: I did make that picture of Manhattan's that I mentioned

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01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 11: on your show previously. That would be forty ounces of

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01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 11: bourbon and twenty ounces of vermouth, sixty ounces.

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01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 4: Good to the last drop.

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01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 12: Oh the words of Teddy Roosevelt, all gone, Oh God,

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01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 12: the night now, Vic, I got to say about the

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01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 12: last episode of Getting Hammered, I was a little bit

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01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 12: disappointed at the fact that you were mocking the pop

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Speaker 12: Tarts bowl.

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01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: And I myself have never had a pop tart, not one,

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01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 1: not in all of my years on this planet. But

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01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 1: I still think they're a staple of many homes. Right, Yeah,

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01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: that's correct. I mean it's something, well, at least when

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01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: I was a high schooler.

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Speaker 4: You're on the go.

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01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,799
Speaker 11: You know, you're usually crashing on something, you know, homework

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01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 11: that you haven't done, a paper that's due, and you

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01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 11: know your mom is probably busy doing other things. Maybe

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01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 11: she's making a lunch for you or not, who knows,

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01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 11: but you don't have time to sit down for full breakfast.

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01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 11: Sometimes you got to get on the road. You got

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01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 11: to get in your car and get the school. Grab

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01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 11: the pop tart, pop it in the toaster.

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01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 4: It's good to go.

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Speaker 1: That's what leads me to mister and missus Maduro, who've

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01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: had a change in circumstance. Whether or not they like

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01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: pop tarts doesn't really matter anymore. What do you think?

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Speaker 1: What do you think he's thinking in his Brooklyn cell

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01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: right now? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Maybe he's thinking what.

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Speaker 11: Would Manuel Noriega do at a time like this, you know,

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Speaker 11: I mean, this is what everybody's thinking. They're channeling back

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Speaker 11: to the Manuel Noriego's you know, the collapse of his

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01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 11: regime and his takedown which took several days from for

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Speaker 11: the US military for that exfiltration operation. And I think

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Speaker 11: Noriega did spend about seventeen years in a US prison

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Speaker 11: before being sent out to I think France.

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Speaker 4: And and Panama. I don't know if he can get

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Speaker 4: out of this.

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Speaker 11: On the other hand, he might be hopeful that they

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01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 11: have a very old judge who is very quirky in

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01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 11: his ways, and maybe he might throw a wrench in

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01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 11: this whole operation. He is maybe hoping that the Trump

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Speaker 11: administration gets caught up in the fervor and forgets something

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01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 11: on the final you know, on the dotted line to

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01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 11: fill out properly, and he can get somehow released. But

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Speaker 11: I don't think that's going to happen. I think there's

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Speaker 11: mounds of evidence that have been compiled since the twenty

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Speaker 11: twenty indictment in the Southern District of New York, the

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Speaker 11: narco terrorism, the drug trafficking. There's a lot to connect

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Speaker 11: him to and he has to worry about that. He'll

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Speaker 11: get his legal representation. This is the United States of America,

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Speaker 11: after all. But if I were him, I would not

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Speaker 11: be thinking I'd be heading back home any time I'm soon,

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Speaker 11: nor would I think would he be wanted back home.

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Speaker 1: Well, I got to ask you, Vic, I'm a little

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Speaker 1: bit surprised that the a District court judge in the

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Speaker 1: Northern District of California has not yet ordered his return

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Speaker 1: to Venezuela, as they have done with a bregup. Right,

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01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: there got to be a district court that will, you know,

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Speaker 1: direct the Trump administration to reverse what they've done Somewhere.

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Speaker 1: It won't stand, but someone will do it.

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Speaker 11: What is the ACLU doing at this moment and where

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Speaker 11: are they filing in a state or a city that's

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Speaker 11: sympathetic to their cause and to leftist causes. This is

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01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 11: how they've been able to, you know, obstruct the Trump

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Speaker 11: administration every step of the way, even going up to

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Speaker 11: the Supreme Court when it came to things like tariffs.

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Speaker 4: So don't we.

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Speaker 11: Should have jinx at Hugh? I mean, will hold our

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01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,879
Speaker 11: breath now? I think you know there's still tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: I think it makes every American abroad, whether in uniform

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Speaker 1: or not, safer. I think that every single America and

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Speaker 1: benefits from what happened on Saturday. Do you agree with me?

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Speaker 4: Yes, whether or not they like to admit it.

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Speaker 11: We're talking about the reduction of fentanyl entering into the

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Speaker 11: United States. A lot of people, you know, have died

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Speaker 11: because of the fentanyl overdoses, and it's coming out of

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Speaker 11: Venezuela largely. Maybe a lot of listeners know people personally.

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Speaker 11: I certainly do people who have died from fentanyl overdoses.

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Speaker 11: It is a terrible thing, and you're looking at a

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Speaker 11: reduction already in a drug overdose opioid deaths in twenty

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Speaker 11: twenty four. That trend will probably continue, and it's not

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Speaker 11: unrelated to the drop in both illegal immigration across the

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Speaker 11: southern border and of course what's happening in Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: Now I am surprised, I really have to say, I

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Speaker 1: am surprised by the number of people who've gone on

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Speaker 1: the air to pronounce that it was illegal and that

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Speaker 1: Congress needed to be known it wasn't illegal, and Congress didn't.

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Speaker 1: Senator Cotton was just on the air with a saying

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Speaker 1: he's perfectly satisfied with the Collie got at three thirty

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Speaker 1: in the morning on Saturday from Secretary of Rubio, who

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Speaker 1: used to have the job that Senat Cotton has now

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Speaker 1: chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of these people? Do they just reflectively because Trump didn't

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Speaker 1: have to be against it.

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Speaker 4: That's part of it, Hugh, definitely.

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Speaker 11: For example, when the Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy said

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Speaker 11: that people should dress better on airplanes, just to stick

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Speaker 11: it to Trump, people just even slobbier than they already do.

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Speaker 4: So that was one thing.

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Speaker 11: If Trump says water and air good for you, they're

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Speaker 11: going to do everything in the power.

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01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:40,680
Speaker 4: To say it's bad for you.

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Speaker 11: So that's one part of it, and the other part

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Speaker 11: is something that Mark Halpern had said recently, which is,

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Speaker 11: say what you will about Trump arrangement syndrome. One of

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Speaker 11: the things that causes is amnesia. And so suddenly people

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Speaker 11: do people to forget about Obama droning an American citizen

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01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 11: he didn't, you know, get a charge with a warrant

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Speaker 11: for that, and certainly going back to let's say Bill Clinton,

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01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,959
Speaker 11: you know, and launching strikes in Serbia, or our involvement

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01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 11: with boots on the ground in Somalia, so suddenly those

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Speaker 11: things are forgotten or they'll say that these are very

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Speaker 11: terrible precedents, including Panama, that were you know, having to

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Speaker 11: abide by.

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Speaker 4: But the fact is there are precedents.

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Speaker 1: Lots of president and that brings me finally to Chuck

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01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,759
Speaker 1: Schumer and Democrats. Does any Democrat other than John Fetterman,

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01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: have you seen one come out and say, good for

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01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 1: the good old USA? Then zeelans deserve freedom, free frequent

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01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: and fair elections, and free markets. Have you seen any

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01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 1: Democrats say that?

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01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,839
Speaker 11: No, they seem to be in lockstep, as you were mentioning,

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01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 11: with the exception of the Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, who's

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01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 11: on Fox this morning talking in fact about how you

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01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 11: have to, you know, give credit to where it's due,

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01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 11: regardless of the president, regardless of how you feel about

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01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 11: President Trump, having him.

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01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 4: Removed is a good thing.

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01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 11: And there are for example, James Homan had an editorial

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01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 11: in the Washington Post saying this is a good thing,

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01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 11: and of course their readers went ballistic over that position

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01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 11: because again, if Trump did it, it has to be bad.

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01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 4: But they don't realize.

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01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 11: That if they take a step back at how foolish

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01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 11: that makes them look. And there are Venezuelans who are saying,

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01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 11: have you talked to us people in Durrel, You know,

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01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 11: not the protesters in New York, but the people at

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Speaker 11: Venezuela and here in this country, they are happy.

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01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Florida got reader over the weekend, very

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01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: very much. Lots of Venezuelans in Florida who had to

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01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: go there because of the tyranny of Nicholas maduro Vic.

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01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: Madis good to talk to. You follow him on ex

1457
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: Victoryina Madis, go and like and subscribe to getting hammered

1458
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: that he and Mary Catherine Ham bring you at least

1459
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: cleekly and stay tuned w right back on the UUs

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01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: Show