1 00:00:08,257 --> 00:00:09,457 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:11,137 --> 00:00:14,537 Speaker 2: Find inspiration as close as your phone. Download the Jesus 3 00:00:14,576 --> 00:00:17,416 Speaker 2: Calling app and get started today for free. Look for 4 00:00:17,457 --> 00:00:20,097 Speaker 2: the Jesus Calling app in both the Apple and Google 5 00:00:20,137 --> 00:00:20,776 Speaker 2: Play stores. 6 00:00:24,017 --> 00:00:27,257 Speaker 1: Twenty seven percent of families have someone who's estranged. A 7 00:00:27,297 --> 00:00:30,816 Speaker 1: lot of it is gen z and millennials who have 8 00:00:31,177 --> 00:00:35,697 Speaker 1: just walked away from their parents. And the heartache is crazy, 9 00:00:36,337 --> 00:00:39,217 Speaker 1: and so I wanted to give people who have heartache 10 00:00:39,497 --> 00:00:40,977 Speaker 1: some hope. 11 00:00:41,777 --> 00:00:45,656 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. Doctor Jim Burns, founder 12 00:00:45,696 --> 00:00:48,617 Speaker 2: of Homeward, returns to the show to discuss how parents 13 00:00:48,617 --> 00:00:50,976 Speaker 2: can navigate the heartbreak of estrangement with. 14 00:00:50,937 --> 00:00:51,897 Speaker 3: Their adult children. 15 00:00:52,497 --> 00:00:57,537 Speaker 2: He offers advice on avoiding self blame, communicating without unsolicited criticism, 16 00:00:57,697 --> 00:01:03,177 Speaker 2: and prioritizing healthy boundaries. Later, neuroscientist doctor Joshua W. Brown 17 00:01:03,497 --> 00:01:06,497 Speaker 2: shares how a terminal brain tumor diagnose at age thirty 18 00:01:06,817 --> 00:01:10,377 Speaker 2: sparked his interest in investigating how faith practices and prayer 19 00:01:10,577 --> 00:01:14,456 Speaker 2: contribute to healing. Using his scientific training, he describes seeing 20 00:01:14,497 --> 00:01:18,977 Speaker 2: cases that medical professionals cannot explain, exploring how healing may 21 00:01:19,017 --> 00:01:22,937 Speaker 2: happen beyond the scope of traditional treatment. Let's start by 22 00:01:22,937 --> 00:01:30,777 Speaker 2: hearing from doctor Jim Birds. 23 00:01:30,417 --> 00:01:32,457 Speaker 1: For decades, I've talked to parents, and a lot of 24 00:01:32,497 --> 00:01:35,457 Speaker 1: times their parents with younger kids, but there would always 25 00:01:35,537 --> 00:01:38,737 Speaker 1: be somebody talking to me about their adult children. They go, 26 00:01:38,737 --> 00:01:40,657 Speaker 1: why don't you do something with adult children? 27 00:01:40,737 --> 00:01:40,897 Speaker 3: Right? 28 00:01:41,577 --> 00:01:43,497 Speaker 1: And I wrote a book about seven years ago. It's 29 00:01:43,497 --> 00:01:45,737 Speaker 1: still in a bestseller list with Amazon. It's called Doing 30 00:01:45,777 --> 00:01:48,137 Speaker 1: Life for your Adult Children. Keep your mouth shut and 31 00:01:48,177 --> 00:01:49,977 Speaker 1: the welcome mat out, which pretty much says with the 32 00:01:50,017 --> 00:01:53,417 Speaker 1: books on. And I never realized that I spend the 33 00:01:53,457 --> 00:01:57,977 Speaker 1: rest of my life every day having people ask me 34 00:01:58,097 --> 00:02:00,977 Speaker 1: questions about their kids who have deconstructed from their faith, 35 00:02:01,017 --> 00:02:04,257 Speaker 1: their kids who are some of them estranged, their kids 36 00:02:04,337 --> 00:02:09,137 Speaker 1: walked away from the church. You know, I say to 37 00:02:09,217 --> 00:02:12,097 Speaker 1: people who are just having their kids move into adulthood, 38 00:02:12,097 --> 00:02:14,337 Speaker 1: I go, okay, number one, you're fired as a day 39 00:02:14,377 --> 00:02:16,177 Speaker 1: to day parent. You have to give the kid the 40 00:02:16,217 --> 00:02:19,297 Speaker 1: past part to adulthood. They hate that, by the way, 41 00:02:19,577 --> 00:02:21,777 Speaker 1: but it's true. Let's look at it this way. A 42 00:02:21,937 --> 00:02:24,817 Speaker 1: parent has never parented an adult, so they don't kind 43 00:02:24,857 --> 00:02:26,337 Speaker 1: of know what they're doing. At least that was us, 44 00:02:26,897 --> 00:02:29,577 Speaker 1: Kathy and me. But you know what, a child who's 45 00:02:29,737 --> 00:02:31,937 Speaker 1: now a teenager doesn't know how to be an adult. Either, 46 00:02:32,137 --> 00:02:35,017 Speaker 1: So there's two people learning this, so there's this parallel track. 47 00:02:35,617 --> 00:02:39,017 Speaker 1: And what I always say is that no one likes advice. 48 00:02:39,257 --> 00:02:42,417 Speaker 1: No adult does. And so my second principle on that 49 00:02:43,057 --> 00:02:46,617 Speaker 1: is unsolicited advice has taken as criticism. It could be 50 00:02:46,817 --> 00:02:48,817 Speaker 1: two decades, it could be three decades that you've been 51 00:02:48,817 --> 00:02:51,497 Speaker 1: giving them advice, and that's kind of your job. Well 52 00:02:52,057 --> 00:02:54,617 Speaker 1: not now. What you've got to do is back off 53 00:02:54,817 --> 00:02:57,537 Speaker 1: and understand that experience is a better teacher than advice. 54 00:02:57,577 --> 00:03:00,377 Speaker 1: Why because you're moving to a mentor role, and when 55 00:03:00,377 --> 00:03:03,776 Speaker 1: you're moving to a mentor role, mentors don't necessarily give advice, 56 00:03:03,817 --> 00:03:06,097 Speaker 1: but they give advice when they're asked. We don't think 57 00:03:06,097 --> 00:03:08,457 Speaker 1: we're being intrusive if we're giving advice, but you know, 58 00:03:08,497 --> 00:03:11,657 Speaker 1: think about maybe your own parents sometimes would give advice 59 00:03:11,657 --> 00:03:13,897 Speaker 1: that was unsolicited and you kind of go, they're being intrusive. 60 00:03:14,137 --> 00:03:16,697 Speaker 1: So this is how we do it. It's not an 61 00:03:16,777 --> 00:03:20,977 Speaker 1: easy thing, but it's key. That means that we move 62 00:03:21,657 --> 00:03:26,297 Speaker 1: from control to much more of a Karen mentoring role, 63 00:03:26,337 --> 00:03:28,377 Speaker 1: and we kind of have that right now. We're loving 64 00:03:28,417 --> 00:03:31,537 Speaker 1: our season with our kids right now because we're like 65 00:03:31,617 --> 00:03:33,577 Speaker 1: friends with them, but they call us mom and dad, 66 00:03:34,337 --> 00:03:37,137 Speaker 1: But you know we're not their best friend because we're 67 00:03:37,177 --> 00:03:40,737 Speaker 1: their parents. Still, twenty seven percent of families have someone 68 00:03:40,777 --> 00:03:44,057 Speaker 1: who's estranged. A lot of it is gen z and 69 00:03:44,297 --> 00:03:47,617 Speaker 1: millennials who have just walked away from their parents, and 70 00:03:47,737 --> 00:03:52,057 Speaker 1: the heartache is crazy. And so I wanted to give 71 00:03:52,097 --> 00:03:56,777 Speaker 1: people who have heartache some hope. I say, parents blame 72 00:03:56,817 --> 00:04:00,377 Speaker 1: themselves and they don't need to. They'll say, if only, 73 00:04:00,857 --> 00:04:02,257 Speaker 1: that's the big word. I hear a lot of times, 74 00:04:02,337 --> 00:04:04,497 Speaker 1: if only we would have prayed more, if only we 75 00:04:04,537 --> 00:04:07,697 Speaker 1: would have read Jesus calling together, If only we would 76 00:04:07,697 --> 00:04:09,857 Speaker 1: have not gone on that vacation and let the kids 77 00:04:09,897 --> 00:04:12,657 Speaker 1: go to the mission trip. If only we wouldn't have fought, 78 00:04:12,737 --> 00:04:14,897 Speaker 1: If only I wouldn't have gotten a divorce. And I 79 00:04:14,937 --> 00:04:17,537 Speaker 1: think a lot of times that takes place, and we 80 00:04:17,577 --> 00:04:20,777 Speaker 1: have so much shame. I hear stories every day. Heard 81 00:04:20,777 --> 00:04:24,497 Speaker 1: one this morning about someone who had been estranged from 82 00:04:24,577 --> 00:04:26,736 Speaker 1: their family and they've been a strange for twelve years. 83 00:04:27,056 --> 00:04:29,697 Speaker 1: They said they came back. They kind of walked in 84 00:04:29,736 --> 00:04:32,176 Speaker 1: one day and said I'm back now. They came back 85 00:04:32,176 --> 00:04:34,976 Speaker 1: with some baggage, they came back with a couple of addictions, 86 00:04:35,496 --> 00:04:38,816 Speaker 1: but nevertheless, they did come back. One of the things 87 00:04:38,816 --> 00:04:40,777 Speaker 1: people have to have is a great amount of patience. 88 00:04:41,017 --> 00:04:43,097 Speaker 1: You know, it's a mess. And what I always say 89 00:04:43,137 --> 00:04:45,057 Speaker 1: is God's okay with messis. I mean, He hangs with 90 00:04:45,097 --> 00:04:48,456 Speaker 1: all of us, So we're sometimes messy. So it's possible 91 00:04:48,577 --> 00:04:51,777 Speaker 1: to hold onto your values and still love your child, 92 00:04:51,976 --> 00:04:54,416 Speaker 1: but at the same time we can still relate to them. 93 00:04:54,697 --> 00:04:58,017 Speaker 1: So the tightrope that you walk is you show love, 94 00:04:58,176 --> 00:05:01,537 Speaker 1: you practice kindness, You expand the relationship, not just be 95 00:05:01,577 --> 00:05:05,256 Speaker 1: a one topic parent, and in doing that you can 96 00:05:05,616 --> 00:05:09,937 Speaker 1: race your child and love your child. Jesus led with love, 97 00:05:10,337 --> 00:05:14,257 Speaker 1: he practiced kindness, and you can actually have gratitude even 98 00:05:14,296 --> 00:05:17,056 Speaker 1: for your child when they're not doing it. Well. You know, 99 00:05:17,097 --> 00:05:20,777 Speaker 1: that's a practice. That's a discipline. The Bible says, discipline 100 00:05:20,777 --> 00:05:23,136 Speaker 1: yourself for the purpose of godliness. That was Paul speaking 101 00:05:23,217 --> 00:05:25,936 Speaker 1: to Timothy. Discipline yourself. Well, we have to have the 102 00:05:26,017 --> 00:05:29,777 Speaker 1: discipline to not meddle in their life, to back off 103 00:05:29,816 --> 00:05:32,856 Speaker 1: they are adults, but still show love. And I think 104 00:05:32,897 --> 00:05:34,576 Speaker 1: the bottom line with a lot of people, a lot 105 00:05:34,577 --> 00:05:38,497 Speaker 1: of adult children, they're asking one question, do you still 106 00:05:38,577 --> 00:05:46,337 Speaker 1: love me? So as parents we have to show love 107 00:05:46,376 --> 00:05:48,697 Speaker 1: and it may be tough love. Here's how tough love works. 108 00:05:48,736 --> 00:05:52,056 Speaker 1: It's not being mean. Tough love says you allow the 109 00:05:52,097 --> 00:05:57,256 Speaker 1: circumstances of their actions to take place, and you can 110 00:05:57,296 --> 00:06:01,097 Speaker 1: actually show empathy. I'm so sorry that we're in this place. 111 00:06:01,137 --> 00:06:03,217 Speaker 1: And I say to parents all the time, take the lead, 112 00:06:03,257 --> 00:06:05,937 Speaker 1: but take the lead with love, take the lead with kindness. 113 00:06:06,457 --> 00:06:09,056 Speaker 1: They know how you feel, they know what you believe. 114 00:06:09,577 --> 00:06:11,856 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't just be harping on that. I would 115 00:06:11,897 --> 00:06:15,616 Speaker 1: actually broaden the relationship. So you're their greatest cheerleader. Said 116 00:06:15,616 --> 00:06:17,537 Speaker 1: to somebody this week, I was speaking on the subject 117 00:06:17,577 --> 00:06:19,777 Speaker 1: this week. I said to somebody, they said that they 118 00:06:19,777 --> 00:06:23,496 Speaker 1: babysit their grandkids and the parents won't allow them to 119 00:06:23,496 --> 00:06:25,616 Speaker 1: take them to church, and so what do you think 120 00:06:25,657 --> 00:06:28,016 Speaker 1: we should do, because that's their value. And I said, 121 00:06:28,176 --> 00:06:30,057 Speaker 1: I wouldn't take them to church. I said, it's a 122 00:06:30,137 --> 00:06:34,897 Speaker 1: season where you need to let your son or daughter 123 00:06:35,017 --> 00:06:37,056 Speaker 1: know that you're going to go with that because you 124 00:06:37,176 --> 00:06:39,257 Speaker 1: want to babysit those kids, you want to have an 125 00:06:39,257 --> 00:06:42,136 Speaker 1: influence with those kids. But you've also got to allow 126 00:06:42,257 --> 00:06:45,657 Speaker 1: the parent to in some ways take the lead. The 127 00:06:45,697 --> 00:06:48,736 Speaker 1: other thing we can't do is we can't be saying 128 00:06:48,976 --> 00:06:51,736 Speaker 1: you're wrong, I'm right. There's a woman named Tina Gilbertson 129 00:06:51,777 --> 00:06:54,856 Speaker 1: who wrote a great book on reconnecting with a strange child, 130 00:06:55,176 --> 00:06:57,736 Speaker 1: and she said, it's not about who's right or wrong, 131 00:06:57,976 --> 00:07:01,176 Speaker 1: it's about mending the fence. And there's a big difference there. 132 00:07:01,376 --> 00:07:03,696 Speaker 1: So if I'm saying you're wrong, usually as a parent, 133 00:07:03,816 --> 00:07:05,377 Speaker 1: if I'm saying to my kid, if they're in a 134 00:07:05,376 --> 00:07:08,617 Speaker 1: situation like that, you're wrong and I'm right, that's not 135 00:07:09,097 --> 00:07:11,897 Speaker 1: what's going to bring them to a safe place where 136 00:07:11,937 --> 00:07:14,617 Speaker 1: they see you as a safe person. I even said 137 00:07:14,657 --> 00:07:16,617 Speaker 1: to a woman this week, is there anything you can 138 00:07:16,657 --> 00:07:19,137 Speaker 1: do to say you're sorry? And she goes, well, I'm 139 00:07:19,137 --> 00:07:21,137 Speaker 1: not really sorry. It's my kid who's made all these things. 140 00:07:21,177 --> 00:07:24,897 Speaker 1: And are you sorry that the relationship isn't good? Yes, 141 00:07:25,177 --> 00:07:27,377 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't try to make it all better. I 142 00:07:27,377 --> 00:07:29,577 Speaker 1: would just simply say I'm so sorry we're in this place. 143 00:07:30,097 --> 00:07:33,576 Speaker 1: And in doing that, you're showing empathy because it's harder 144 00:07:33,617 --> 00:07:38,017 Speaker 1: to be broken away from you. If you're their greatest cheerleader. 145 00:07:38,297 --> 00:07:41,057 Speaker 1: You can't enable them because if you enable a child, 146 00:07:41,177 --> 00:07:43,457 Speaker 1: even if you have little children, if you enable a child, 147 00:07:43,737 --> 00:07:46,217 Speaker 1: you can't enable independency. Because then they're not going to 148 00:07:46,777 --> 00:07:48,897 Speaker 1: grow up, there'll be a failure to launch, et cetera. 149 00:07:49,177 --> 00:07:51,777 Speaker 1: But you can show love and you can show kindness, 150 00:07:52,257 --> 00:07:56,016 Speaker 1: and you don't have to go against your values. You know, 151 00:07:56,177 --> 00:08:00,857 Speaker 1: estrangement cuts deeply. I mean, here, you have a child 152 00:08:00,937 --> 00:08:04,537 Speaker 1: that you change their diapers, You help them to learn 153 00:08:04,577 --> 00:08:07,137 Speaker 1: how to walk, to get on a bicycle. You know, 154 00:08:07,177 --> 00:08:09,017 Speaker 1: the list goes on and on, and all of a sudden, 155 00:08:09,057 --> 00:08:11,857 Speaker 1: now this same child who's an adult doesn't want to 156 00:08:11,897 --> 00:08:13,857 Speaker 1: have a relationship with you, or doesn't want to speak 157 00:08:13,857 --> 00:08:17,417 Speaker 1: with you. It's devastating, and so obviously we have to 158 00:08:17,457 --> 00:08:21,657 Speaker 1: admit that it's devastating. But that can either take us, 159 00:08:21,857 --> 00:08:24,017 Speaker 1: in many ways, toward a healthy place or to a 160 00:08:24,057 --> 00:08:26,137 Speaker 1: lousy place. And I think a lot of times we 161 00:08:26,177 --> 00:08:28,256 Speaker 1: go lousy because everything is bad and we just see 162 00:08:28,257 --> 00:08:30,417 Speaker 1: it is so bad. I think this is where we 163 00:08:30,497 --> 00:08:33,097 Speaker 1: need coming back to the idea that circle of support. 164 00:08:33,897 --> 00:08:37,457 Speaker 1: There's very few estrangements where we don't need the help 165 00:08:37,457 --> 00:08:40,777 Speaker 1: of counsel. So we need somebody coming alongside of us 166 00:08:40,817 --> 00:08:42,817 Speaker 1: to give us the insight, especially with a stranger, because 167 00:08:42,817 --> 00:08:44,177 Speaker 1: we don't know what to do. We want to say 168 00:08:44,177 --> 00:08:46,857 Speaker 1: to our kids, like I said, you know you're wrong, 169 00:08:46,897 --> 00:08:49,777 Speaker 1: and I'm right. Well, that doesn't work. So what we 170 00:08:49,857 --> 00:08:51,497 Speaker 1: have to do is figure out what do you do 171 00:08:51,577 --> 00:08:53,977 Speaker 1: in estrangement, And that's where you have to, you know, 172 00:08:54,017 --> 00:08:56,097 Speaker 1: seek the council. But you also have to embrace that 173 00:08:56,177 --> 00:09:00,057 Speaker 1: you're sorry and really realize that this is going to 174 00:09:00,057 --> 00:09:03,577 Speaker 1: be a need for a long time. Take time to heal. 175 00:09:03,617 --> 00:09:05,417 Speaker 1: I just read this, actually my Jesus Calling a couple 176 00:09:05,457 --> 00:09:07,777 Speaker 1: of days ago, but it was Philippians one to six, 177 00:09:08,137 --> 00:09:10,617 Speaker 1: and it says, being confident of this, that he who 178 00:09:10,697 --> 00:09:13,017 Speaker 1: began a good work in you will carry it on 179 00:09:13,137 --> 00:09:16,257 Speaker 1: to completion until the day of Christ. Jesus, Well, that's 180 00:09:16,497 --> 00:09:19,657 Speaker 1: important for our kids and for us to be reminded 181 00:09:19,657 --> 00:09:22,137 Speaker 1: of that. There's some pretty cool promises about that. But 182 00:09:22,217 --> 00:09:25,497 Speaker 1: it's not on our time. It's more on his time 183 00:09:25,497 --> 00:09:28,257 Speaker 1: and actually on our adult child's time. For me, Jesus 184 00:09:28,297 --> 00:09:30,937 Speaker 1: Calling the book is gratitude and trust. For me to 185 00:09:31,057 --> 00:09:35,657 Speaker 1: read Jesus Calling takes two minutes, So start with two minutes. 186 00:09:35,697 --> 00:09:38,697 Speaker 1: If you can't give them twenty minutes, start with five minutes, 187 00:09:38,737 --> 00:09:41,337 Speaker 1: whatever it might be, and do it every day. The 188 00:09:41,377 --> 00:09:46,097 Speaker 1: other thing is in times of deep distress and trauma 189 00:09:46,217 --> 00:09:48,657 Speaker 1: like we have with a strange child or just a 190 00:09:48,737 --> 00:09:51,377 Speaker 1: child that's straying, especially an adult child. I think we 191 00:09:51,457 --> 00:09:53,897 Speaker 1: need to bring people around as I'm in a small 192 00:09:53,937 --> 00:09:56,577 Speaker 1: group with five men. We've been together for twenty five years, 193 00:09:56,977 --> 00:09:58,737 Speaker 1: and I just had a conversation with one of the 194 00:09:58,737 --> 00:10:01,337 Speaker 1: guys and he was checking in on me. He was 195 00:10:01,377 --> 00:10:03,857 Speaker 1: asking what was going on. I just traveled to speak 196 00:10:03,937 --> 00:10:06,617 Speaker 1: and how's my wife doing? She'd had illness. He was 197 00:10:06,617 --> 00:10:10,297 Speaker 1: doing this check in. Well, that strengthens you. So sometimes 198 00:10:10,297 --> 00:10:12,657 Speaker 1: if you can't pray, or you don't feel like your 199 00:10:12,697 --> 00:10:15,177 Speaker 1: prayers are being answered, then bring others around you to 200 00:10:15,217 --> 00:10:18,977 Speaker 1: pray for you and pray with you. And again, some 201 00:10:19,017 --> 00:10:21,777 Speaker 1: people don't have that, so find somebody, Find one person, 202 00:10:22,017 --> 00:10:23,897 Speaker 1: say can we have coffee and can we pray together. 203 00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:28,577 Speaker 1: It's not something that's going to just radically change overnight, 204 00:10:28,697 --> 00:10:31,097 Speaker 1: but it does make a difference. And I think sometimes 205 00:10:31,137 --> 00:10:33,617 Speaker 1: what we do is the exact opposite. We're in pain, 206 00:10:33,937 --> 00:10:36,537 Speaker 1: and so we crawl into ourselves and we don't tell 207 00:10:36,617 --> 00:10:39,937 Speaker 1: anybody we can't pray, so then we just stop praying. 208 00:10:40,497 --> 00:10:43,497 Speaker 1: This is when we lean into the spiritual values and 209 00:10:43,537 --> 00:10:46,017 Speaker 1: the spiritual disciplines. In my opinion. We need to lean 210 00:10:46,097 --> 00:10:49,457 Speaker 1: into comfort. Then the Bible gives you comfort. I know 211 00:10:49,617 --> 00:10:51,497 Speaker 1: there have been seasons in my life where I've spent 212 00:10:51,537 --> 00:10:53,817 Speaker 1: more time in the Psalms, I've spent more time in 213 00:10:53,897 --> 00:10:57,777 Speaker 1: proverbs because those are more comforting to me. We need 214 00:10:57,817 --> 00:11:00,776 Speaker 1: to make sure that we're still leaning into God, submitting 215 00:11:00,817 --> 00:11:04,697 Speaker 1: to God, relinquishing our kids to God, because that's actually 216 00:11:04,937 --> 00:11:06,697 Speaker 1: that's a hard thing to do. But one of my 217 00:11:06,777 --> 00:11:10,657 Speaker 1: prayers is, God, I give you my children. And that's 218 00:11:10,657 --> 00:11:13,137 Speaker 1: hard because it's hard for me to understand that God 219 00:11:13,577 --> 00:11:15,897 Speaker 1: loves my kids more than I do, because I honestly 220 00:11:15,937 --> 00:11:18,617 Speaker 1: think I would die for them. He died for us. 221 00:11:20,057 --> 00:11:23,977 Speaker 2: To learn more about doctor Jim Burns, visit www dot 222 00:11:24,017 --> 00:11:26,737 Speaker 2: Homeward dot com and be sure to check out his 223 00:11:26,817 --> 00:11:30,497 Speaker 2: new book when your Adult Child's Strays, available at your 224 00:11:30,497 --> 00:11:34,657 Speaker 2: favorite retailer. Stay tuned to doctor Joshua W. Brown Story 225 00:11:34,977 --> 00:11:44,977 Speaker 2: After a brief Message. With more than fifty million copies sold, 226 00:11:45,177 --> 00:11:48,417 Speaker 2: the original classic edition of Jesus Calling is your daily 227 00:11:48,417 --> 00:11:51,817 Speaker 2: guide to living a more peaceful life. Experience a deeper 228 00:11:51,857 --> 00:11:54,657 Speaker 2: relationship with Jesus as you savor the presence of the 229 00:11:54,657 --> 00:11:58,137 Speaker 2: one who understands you perfectly and loves you forever. With 230 00:11:58,257 --> 00:12:01,697 Speaker 2: scripture and personal reflections, Jesus Calling is your year long 231 00:12:01,737 --> 00:12:04,657 Speaker 2: guide to living a more peaceful life. Its price and 232 00:12:04,737 --> 00:12:08,377 Speaker 2: size also get the perfect gift for anyone who needs encouragement. 233 00:12:08,857 --> 00:12:18,177 Speaker 2: Find Jesus Calling wherever you buy books. Our next guest, 234 00:12:18,257 --> 00:12:21,977 Speaker 2: doctor Joshua W. Brown, shares how a life altering diagnosis 235 00:12:22,137 --> 00:12:25,697 Speaker 2: led him to redirect his passion for neuroscience toward examining 236 00:12:25,777 --> 00:12:27,857 Speaker 2: miraculous stories of answered prayer. 237 00:12:29,097 --> 00:12:31,057 Speaker 3: I'm Professor Joshua W. Brown. 238 00:12:31,617 --> 00:12:35,537 Speaker 4: I'm a professor of psychological and brain sciences at Indiana University. 239 00:12:35,737 --> 00:12:38,737 Speaker 4: I'm also the director of the Global Medical Research Institute, 240 00:12:39,137 --> 00:12:43,937 Speaker 4: which has as its mission careful scientific and medical investigations 241 00:12:43,937 --> 00:12:52,337 Speaker 4: and the effects of prayer on health outcomes. I grew 242 00:12:52,457 --> 00:12:58,217 Speaker 4: up in relatively poor setting. My early years were in 243 00:12:58,257 --> 00:13:03,777 Speaker 4: a mobile home park, and I was always fascinated with 244 00:13:04,017 --> 00:13:06,977 Speaker 4: how things worked. I loved it take things apart, figure 245 00:13:06,977 --> 00:13:09,337 Speaker 4: out how they work, put them back together. 246 00:13:10,137 --> 00:13:11,297 Speaker 3: I love to build. 247 00:13:11,057 --> 00:13:18,537 Speaker 4: Things machines, and that eventually grew into an initial interest 248 00:13:18,577 --> 00:13:22,137 Speaker 4: in architecture and designing buildings. So that led me in 249 00:13:22,217 --> 00:13:26,937 Speaker 4: college to study mechanical engineering, and I took a course 250 00:13:27,097 --> 00:13:30,137 Speaker 4: by chance, just to fulfill a requirement that was all 251 00:13:30,137 --> 00:13:34,697 Speaker 4: about how the brain works and how to build computer 252 00:13:34,857 --> 00:13:39,657 Speaker 4: simulations of different parts of brain function with mathematical models. 253 00:13:39,817 --> 00:13:42,897 Speaker 4: And I was fascinated, and I realized the human brain 254 00:13:43,097 --> 00:13:48,537 Speaker 4: is probably the most complicated, fascinating thing on the planet, 255 00:13:48,897 --> 00:13:52,977 Speaker 4: just purely looking at it as a complex biological system. 256 00:13:53,857 --> 00:13:55,937 Speaker 4: And I thought, that's what I want to figure out. 257 00:13:55,937 --> 00:13:57,977 Speaker 4: I want to figure out how the brain works, how 258 00:13:57,977 --> 00:14:00,497 Speaker 4: it does what it does, how we can simulate it 259 00:14:00,577 --> 00:14:04,657 Speaker 4: with computers, how we can understand the ways in which 260 00:14:04,737 --> 00:14:05,817 Speaker 4: things can go wrong. 261 00:14:06,257 --> 00:14:07,097 Speaker 3: And so that was it. 262 00:14:07,657 --> 00:14:10,497 Speaker 4: I left mechanical engineering and went and did a PhD 263 00:14:10,577 --> 00:14:14,857 Speaker 4: in cognitive and neural systems, which was about building computer 264 00:14:14,897 --> 00:14:17,937 Speaker 4: and mathematical simulations of different parts of the brain. 265 00:14:19,377 --> 00:14:23,417 Speaker 3: So I was thirty years old and life was going well. 266 00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:27,257 Speaker 4: I was just in the process of publishing my first 267 00:14:27,297 --> 00:14:30,337 Speaker 4: paper in Science magazine, which for a scientist it's sort 268 00:14:30,377 --> 00:14:34,497 Speaker 4: of a prestigious thing that generally bodes well for one's career. 269 00:14:35,377 --> 00:14:39,937 Speaker 4: And my wife, Candy, was nine months pregnant with our 270 00:14:39,937 --> 00:14:44,777 Speaker 4: first child, and one night in August of two thousand 271 00:14:44,777 --> 00:14:47,817 Speaker 4: and three, I went to bed and when I woke 272 00:14:47,937 --> 00:14:50,057 Speaker 4: up the next morning, I found that I wasn't in 273 00:14:50,057 --> 00:14:52,777 Speaker 4: my bed, I was in an ambulance. I had no 274 00:14:52,857 --> 00:14:56,137 Speaker 4: idea how I had ended up in an ambulance, and 275 00:14:56,977 --> 00:15:02,097 Speaker 4: I had an oxygen mask and tubes, and the paramedics said, sir, 276 00:15:02,177 --> 00:15:07,177 Speaker 4: you've had a seizure. And Candy explained to me that 277 00:15:07,857 --> 00:15:10,377 Speaker 4: I had sort of let out a scream in the 278 00:15:10,417 --> 00:15:14,457 Speaker 4: middle of the night, and she then found me unresponsive 279 00:15:14,537 --> 00:15:19,177 Speaker 4: and called nine to one one, and so they took 280 00:15:19,217 --> 00:15:22,217 Speaker 4: me by ambulance to the emergency room and did a 281 00:15:22,257 --> 00:15:26,777 Speaker 4: CT scan to rule out something immediately life threatening, like 282 00:15:26,817 --> 00:15:30,137 Speaker 4: a for example, a stroke or a bleed in the 283 00:15:30,177 --> 00:15:33,497 Speaker 4: brain or things like that. And having ruled that out, 284 00:15:33,617 --> 00:15:36,057 Speaker 4: they sent me back home, but said, well, you need 285 00:15:36,137 --> 00:15:39,497 Speaker 4: to see this neurologist as soon as possible, and so 286 00:15:39,577 --> 00:15:44,577 Speaker 4: I made an appointment saw the neurologist, and four days later, 287 00:15:45,377 --> 00:15:48,017 Speaker 4: my wife went into labor and so we had to 288 00:15:48,017 --> 00:15:50,137 Speaker 4: get a ride to the hospital. I couldn't drive the 289 00:15:50,177 --> 00:15:52,977 Speaker 4: car because I'd had the seizure. So we get to 290 00:15:52,977 --> 00:15:57,417 Speaker 4: the hospital and Candy gives birth to our first child, 291 00:15:57,577 --> 00:16:01,217 Speaker 4: and while she's recovering from childbirth, I go to the 292 00:16:01,257 --> 00:16:03,457 Speaker 4: other end of the hospital and have an MRI i'd 293 00:16:03,617 --> 00:16:07,937 Speaker 4: done on my head. It's kind of an ironic feeling 294 00:16:08,017 --> 00:16:10,897 Speaker 4: for me as a neuroscientist, because at that point I 295 00:16:10,937 --> 00:16:16,697 Speaker 4: had been doing special kinds of MRI images of other 296 00:16:16,737 --> 00:16:19,977 Speaker 4: people looking at brains, trying to understand how they work, 297 00:16:20,617 --> 00:16:22,817 Speaker 4: and now here I was the patient having my own 298 00:16:22,857 --> 00:16:26,537 Speaker 4: head scanned in the same kind of scanner that I 299 00:16:26,577 --> 00:16:28,097 Speaker 4: was using to study other people. 300 00:16:29,057 --> 00:16:32,457 Speaker 3: And so I didn't think much of it. 301 00:16:34,337 --> 00:16:38,137 Speaker 4: But the neurologists called a few days later and said, well, 302 00:16:38,177 --> 00:16:40,217 Speaker 4: the results are in, but we need to do another 303 00:16:40,417 --> 00:16:46,257 Speaker 4: scan because there's something suspicious. And that's when I learned 304 00:16:46,297 --> 00:16:52,017 Speaker 4: that I had a brain tumor. And of course, as 305 00:16:52,057 --> 00:16:55,137 Speaker 4: a neuroscientist, I'm not a very good patient because I 306 00:16:55,217 --> 00:16:57,057 Speaker 4: know what that means. 307 00:16:57,097 --> 00:16:59,937 Speaker 3: I know that means that I probably have a few 308 00:17:00,017 --> 00:17:00,977 Speaker 3: years left to live. 309 00:17:01,937 --> 00:17:05,016 Speaker 4: There's not really medically anything that's going to prolong my 310 00:17:05,097 --> 00:17:10,137 Speaker 4: life significantly, and so it hit me all at once. 311 00:17:11,057 --> 00:17:14,097 Speaker 4: In that moment, I went from having a promising career 312 00:17:14,257 --> 00:17:20,097 Speaker 4: and a growing family and now I'm looking at my 313 00:17:20,177 --> 00:17:23,937 Speaker 4: wife being a widow and my daughter being fatherless, and 314 00:17:24,337 --> 00:17:27,016 Speaker 4: there's nothing anyone could do to help me. And so 315 00:17:27,057 --> 00:17:30,617 Speaker 4: I went home and told Candy, and we didn't know 316 00:17:30,617 --> 00:17:33,936 Speaker 4: what else to do, so we prayed, and it was 317 00:17:34,257 --> 00:17:38,817 Speaker 4: a prayer to the effect of, Oh, God help us, because. 318 00:17:39,937 --> 00:17:42,017 Speaker 3: You know, what do we do with this? 319 00:17:45,137 --> 00:17:48,297 Speaker 4: Once I got the diagnosis, it became clear quickly that 320 00:17:48,537 --> 00:17:53,337 Speaker 4: this was bad and there wasn't much hope. Being a scientist, 321 00:17:53,457 --> 00:17:56,897 Speaker 4: I immediately went to looking at the medical literature to 322 00:17:57,017 --> 00:18:00,257 Speaker 4: see what do we know from published studies, from the 323 00:18:00,337 --> 00:18:05,297 Speaker 4: latest research about what treatment options there are, and what 324 00:18:05,337 --> 00:18:07,777 Speaker 4: do we do about this, and what's the prognosis. And 325 00:18:08,497 --> 00:18:12,697 Speaker 4: I met with my neurologist, and the neurologist said, well, 326 00:18:13,377 --> 00:18:16,177 Speaker 4: because there's not a whole lot that we can do 327 00:18:16,297 --> 00:18:19,697 Speaker 4: now that will change things, let's just watch and wait 328 00:18:19,897 --> 00:18:23,177 Speaker 4: and we'll domerize every three months and see how it goes. 329 00:18:24,057 --> 00:18:26,137 Speaker 4: So that's what we're doing. And meanwhile, of course, I 330 00:18:26,217 --> 00:18:30,137 Speaker 4: was reading all this medical literature trying to understand exactly 331 00:18:30,217 --> 00:18:33,976 Speaker 4: what the range of prognoses were, and it became clear 332 00:18:34,097 --> 00:18:42,657 Speaker 4: that chemotherapy, radiation, surgery, none of it significantly prolongs life 333 00:18:43,137 --> 00:18:48,497 Speaker 4: span or survival, and so the surgery is more for 334 00:18:48,577 --> 00:18:51,017 Speaker 4: the situation where there are symptoms and you want to 335 00:18:51,057 --> 00:18:54,696 Speaker 4: relieve the symptoms, but it's not necessarily curative. 336 00:18:54,337 --> 00:18:54,417 Speaker 5: You know. 337 00:18:54,497 --> 00:18:57,537 Speaker 4: It's like I said, in some ways, as a neuroscientist, 338 00:18:57,617 --> 00:19:01,977 Speaker 4: I knew a bit more than well, I basically knew 339 00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:05,377 Speaker 4: too much to be a good patient. So with that diagnosis, 340 00:19:05,897 --> 00:19:10,977 Speaker 4: we went to church after that and later the next Sunday, 341 00:19:11,097 --> 00:19:14,696 Speaker 4: and as we were talking with friends, one of the 342 00:19:14,697 --> 00:19:17,697 Speaker 4: people there said, well, you know, there's a prayer ministry, 343 00:19:17,857 --> 00:19:21,657 Speaker 4: this group across town and they often pray for people 344 00:19:21,697 --> 00:19:26,697 Speaker 4: who are facing difficult situations and need healing. So why 345 00:19:26,697 --> 00:19:28,617 Speaker 4: didn't you pay them a visit? And at that point 346 00:19:28,697 --> 00:19:31,776 Speaker 4: I thought, sure, you know, why not, Like I have 347 00:19:31,817 --> 00:19:36,737 Speaker 4: nothing to lose here, So I went and they spent 348 00:19:36,897 --> 00:19:41,017 Speaker 4: like three hours praying with me, and it was powerful. 349 00:19:41,417 --> 00:19:45,097 Speaker 4: It was dramatic at points, and by the end of 350 00:19:45,137 --> 00:19:51,337 Speaker 4: it I felt a strong sense of peace. And it 351 00:19:51,417 --> 00:19:56,417 Speaker 4: was kind of odd given the circumstances, because the circumstances 352 00:19:56,537 --> 00:20:01,216 Speaker 4: wouldn't lend themselves to feeling peaceful, and so at that 353 00:20:01,377 --> 00:20:06,696 Speaker 4: point I thought, Okay, there's something here. I really appreciate 354 00:20:06,697 --> 00:20:08,736 Speaker 4: these people praying for me for my healing. 355 00:20:09,697 --> 00:20:12,177 Speaker 3: Is this going to cause me to be healed? 356 00:20:12,657 --> 00:20:16,817 Speaker 4: I don't know, but it does seem helpful, and so 357 00:20:16,857 --> 00:20:20,737 Speaker 4: I began to travel. First, I went to other ministries 358 00:20:20,777 --> 00:20:23,537 Speaker 4: around where I was living at the time, in Saint Louis, Missouri, 359 00:20:24,497 --> 00:20:30,017 Speaker 4: and I began to travel to other groups out of town, 360 00:20:30,137 --> 00:20:32,657 Speaker 4: out of the state, even out of the country, where 361 00:20:32,697 --> 00:20:36,657 Speaker 4: I heard that people were being prayed for in the 362 00:20:36,697 --> 00:20:40,216 Speaker 4: name of Jesus and were experiencing remarkable healings. 363 00:20:40,657 --> 00:20:43,216 Speaker 3: And remember, I'm still a scientist. 364 00:20:43,657 --> 00:20:46,697 Speaker 4: I have my critical thinking skills, I have a certain 365 00:20:46,737 --> 00:20:50,217 Speaker 4: degree of skepticism, but I'm also desperate. I don't want 366 00:20:50,217 --> 00:20:53,057 Speaker 4: to die, and I'm a Christian, and so I believe 367 00:20:53,097 --> 00:20:57,457 Speaker 4: that God at least can heal people. And it's a 368 00:20:57,537 --> 00:21:01,177 Speaker 4: kind of thing where on the one hand, it's not 369 00:21:01,217 --> 00:21:04,696 Speaker 4: that I'm going to give up pursuing medical treatment, and 370 00:21:05,657 --> 00:21:10,177 Speaker 4: it's not that pursuing this was without cost, because traveling 371 00:21:10,337 --> 00:21:12,577 Speaker 4: costs money, it takes time, and I don't know how 372 00:21:12,617 --> 00:21:17,457 Speaker 4: much time I have left, and even maintaining hope. 373 00:21:17,417 --> 00:21:18,897 Speaker 3: Is costly in a sense. 374 00:21:19,657 --> 00:21:22,137 Speaker 4: The reason is that if you hope for nothing, you 375 00:21:22,177 --> 00:21:26,976 Speaker 4: are protected from being disappointed, So hope has a cost 376 00:21:27,057 --> 00:21:31,617 Speaker 4: to it. And I decided that I did not want 377 00:21:31,657 --> 00:21:34,177 Speaker 4: to die. I didn't want to leave my wife. I 378 00:21:34,177 --> 00:21:36,817 Speaker 4: didn't want to leave my daughter, and I was willing 379 00:21:37,017 --> 00:21:41,377 Speaker 4: to sort of take the chance and risk being disappointed, 380 00:21:41,377 --> 00:21:45,937 Speaker 4: at risk not being healed, because I had seen enough. 381 00:21:45,977 --> 00:21:48,417 Speaker 4: At that point, I was starting to talk with people 382 00:21:48,417 --> 00:21:52,937 Speaker 4: who had experienced remarkable healings through prayer, years. 383 00:21:52,657 --> 00:21:54,337 Speaker 3: Of pain gone. 384 00:21:54,697 --> 00:21:58,817 Speaker 4: I began to see people with broken or missing bones 385 00:21:58,857 --> 00:22:00,897 Speaker 4: that had been put back with metal plates where they 386 00:22:00,937 --> 00:22:03,456 Speaker 4: had movement restrictions. They would get prayed for, and now 387 00:22:03,457 --> 00:22:05,297 Speaker 4: they could move in ways that they couldn't in The 388 00:22:05,297 --> 00:22:08,777 Speaker 4: pain was gone, and I was starting to see people 389 00:22:09,777 --> 00:22:13,777 Speaker 4: right in front of me experience healing through these kind 390 00:22:13,777 --> 00:22:17,337 Speaker 4: of prayer ministry, and so that gave me some degree 391 00:22:17,337 --> 00:22:19,936 Speaker 4: of hope that there was at least something going on 392 00:22:19,977 --> 00:22:28,657 Speaker 4: there that was worth pursuing. I grew up in a 393 00:22:28,777 --> 00:22:33,017 Speaker 4: sort of basic evangelical kind of church, and I heard 394 00:22:33,017 --> 00:22:34,977 Speaker 4: these stories, but I had never seen a miracle. 395 00:22:35,017 --> 00:22:36,697 Speaker 3: I never expected to see. 396 00:22:36,457 --> 00:22:39,456 Speaker 4: One, and I don't know that I would have and 397 00:22:39,537 --> 00:22:42,777 Speaker 4: i'd not become so desperate and just said I will 398 00:22:42,777 --> 00:22:45,297 Speaker 4: go anywhere, I will do anything, I will pay any 399 00:22:45,377 --> 00:22:50,057 Speaker 4: price to find God and not die. 400 00:22:50,177 --> 00:22:52,057 Speaker 3: And so as I did that, I started to see 401 00:22:52,097 --> 00:22:54,976 Speaker 3: these things. And again, I'm still a scientist. I am 402 00:22:55,017 --> 00:22:59,577 Speaker 3: a neuroscientist, so I'm looking at this wondering like, what's 403 00:22:59,617 --> 00:23:03,097 Speaker 3: going on is this because it turns out that there 404 00:23:03,137 --> 00:23:08,137 Speaker 3: are in some cases situations where people aren't blind and 405 00:23:08,177 --> 00:23:12,456 Speaker 3: the blindness is what's called a conversion disorder, which is 406 00:23:12,497 --> 00:23:16,577 Speaker 3: this they're really blind, but it's not because some part 407 00:23:16,577 --> 00:23:19,377 Speaker 3: of their visual system is damaged. It's because there's a 408 00:23:19,417 --> 00:23:24,177 Speaker 3: psychological issue. So the name conversion disorder refers to this 409 00:23:24,297 --> 00:23:28,777 Speaker 3: idea that a kind of psychological distress or severe stress 410 00:23:28,857 --> 00:23:34,097 Speaker 3: gets converted into physical symptoms. So I think in some cases, 411 00:23:34,137 --> 00:23:36,417 Speaker 3: and there's some cases where I've seen it where people 412 00:23:36,417 --> 00:23:40,017 Speaker 3: have recovered their eyesight, and I think it could possibly 413 00:23:40,097 --> 00:23:42,737 Speaker 3: be a case of conversion disorder, because if you deal 414 00:23:42,777 --> 00:23:48,456 Speaker 3: with the stress, often the blindness will resolve. And there 415 00:23:48,497 --> 00:23:51,497 Speaker 3: are other cases where I think it's maybe not so 416 00:23:51,617 --> 00:23:54,897 Speaker 3: easy to explain it in terms of the resolution of 417 00:23:54,977 --> 00:23:59,497 Speaker 3: conversion disorder or a mind body interaction that somehow led 418 00:23:59,537 --> 00:24:01,777 Speaker 3: to the healing. But in any case, I'm still in 419 00:24:01,817 --> 00:24:06,297 Speaker 3: the middle of just exploring this, seeing all these miracles 420 00:24:06,337 --> 00:24:08,977 Speaker 3: happen and trying to make sense of it, and all 421 00:24:09,017 --> 00:24:14,016 Speaker 3: the time asking so will God heal me? So that 422 00:24:14,137 --> 00:24:20,297 Speaker 3: began this year is now decades long journey of looking 423 00:24:20,537 --> 00:24:25,697 Speaker 3: for miracles, investigating them, trying to understand medically and scientifically 424 00:24:25,737 --> 00:24:28,736 Speaker 3: what's going on. There are a lot of questions about 425 00:24:28,777 --> 00:24:32,417 Speaker 3: how do our beliefs affect our health, How do our 426 00:24:32,457 --> 00:24:38,617 Speaker 3: spiritual practices, religious practices, devotions, how do those affect our 427 00:24:38,817 --> 00:24:42,177 Speaker 3: well being? And those are questions that you can answer 428 00:24:42,217 --> 00:24:46,377 Speaker 3: with science. My wife and I both basically looked at 429 00:24:46,737 --> 00:24:49,537 Speaker 3: what does the empirical evidence, you know, what we can 430 00:24:49,577 --> 00:24:53,537 Speaker 3: measure with scientific methods, what we can see from medical records. 431 00:24:54,017 --> 00:24:58,456 Speaker 3: What does that say about how spiritual beliefs and practices 432 00:24:58,497 --> 00:25:01,697 Speaker 3: are good for our health. Then we get into questions 433 00:25:01,777 --> 00:25:04,857 Speaker 3: about how far can we go with that? In other words, 434 00:25:05,177 --> 00:25:10,097 Speaker 3: can and what we believe our prayers, for example, lead 435 00:25:10,177 --> 00:25:15,217 Speaker 3: to mind body effects that can have effects on actually 436 00:25:15,257 --> 00:25:19,337 Speaker 3: reducing pain, And how do we account for things like 437 00:25:19,417 --> 00:25:23,177 Speaker 3: placebo effects and mind body effects, Because if you want 438 00:25:23,217 --> 00:25:26,257 Speaker 3: to claim that someone was miraculously healed, how do you 439 00:25:26,297 --> 00:25:29,817 Speaker 3: know that there wasn't some placebo effect that was somehow 440 00:25:29,857 --> 00:25:34,417 Speaker 3: being activated in the body. And in one sense, if 441 00:25:34,577 --> 00:25:38,696 Speaker 3: someone is in pain and they receive prayer for healing 442 00:25:38,977 --> 00:25:43,976 Speaker 3: and they feel better, that's great, but it also doesn't 443 00:25:44,017 --> 00:25:48,737 Speaker 3: necessarily answer the question of so what caused the pain relief? 444 00:25:49,457 --> 00:25:53,137 Speaker 3: We look at cases that the Global Medical Research Institute 445 00:25:53,217 --> 00:25:57,177 Speaker 3: has investigated someone who claims to have been miraculously healed. 446 00:25:57,497 --> 00:26:00,537 Speaker 3: We get copies of their medical records with their full permission, 447 00:26:01,257 --> 00:26:06,097 Speaker 3: and we run them by medical specialists, professors and medicine 448 00:26:06,097 --> 00:26:09,457 Speaker 3: and their specialty, and we ask, is there any way 449 00:26:09,457 --> 00:26:13,456 Speaker 3: you can explain this by medical and natural means? And 450 00:26:13,537 --> 00:26:15,736 Speaker 3: in a lot of cases we find that there is 451 00:26:15,937 --> 00:26:18,097 Speaker 3: an explanation that you can give. In other words, it 452 00:26:18,097 --> 00:26:22,497 Speaker 3: doesn't require an explanation in terms of the supernatural, doesn't 453 00:26:22,577 --> 00:26:25,337 Speaker 3: rule it out, it just doesn't require it. And there 454 00:26:25,377 --> 00:26:30,097 Speaker 3: are also cases that we published where the medical specialists 455 00:26:30,097 --> 00:26:33,497 Speaker 3: have said, there is no way that you can explain 456 00:26:33,577 --> 00:26:37,457 Speaker 3: this kind of healing. This does not happen, This never happens, 457 00:26:37,497 --> 00:26:42,177 Speaker 3: No one ever recovers from this, and yet the person recovered. 458 00:26:44,577 --> 00:26:47,337 Speaker 3: As with food, you are what you eat. 459 00:26:48,177 --> 00:26:54,417 Speaker 4: And I think the same principle applies spiritually and even psychologically. 460 00:26:55,257 --> 00:26:58,777 Speaker 4: The things that you spend time thinking about, all the 461 00:26:58,817 --> 00:27:02,777 Speaker 4: things that could go wrong, then your brain will become 462 00:27:02,817 --> 00:27:06,257 Speaker 4: specialized for that. It will be very good thinking about 463 00:27:06,257 --> 00:27:09,017 Speaker 4: how things could go wrong. But if you spend your 464 00:27:09,057 --> 00:27:13,777 Speaker 4: time praying thinking about God, thinking about his goodness, thinking 465 00:27:13,817 --> 00:27:17,696 Speaker 4: about how He loves you cares for you, your brain 466 00:27:17,857 --> 00:27:21,737 Speaker 4: cells will become more responsive to those thoughts of our time. 467 00:27:22,817 --> 00:27:28,217 Speaker 4: And I personally find that spending time in prayer meditating 468 00:27:28,257 --> 00:27:32,897 Speaker 4: about God's goodness, it sort of reorients me towards thinking 469 00:27:32,937 --> 00:27:35,976 Speaker 4: about things that are encouraging and positive. And I have 470 00:27:36,017 --> 00:27:38,737 Speaker 4: a lot to think about because over the years I've 471 00:27:38,817 --> 00:27:43,377 Speaker 4: seen a lot of what I would consider miracles, and 472 00:27:43,657 --> 00:27:45,857 Speaker 4: so the more I think about that, the more hope 473 00:27:45,897 --> 00:27:52,617 Speaker 4: I feel. Jesus listens June third, God of Grace, I 474 00:27:52,697 --> 00:27:55,377 Speaker 4: come to you for understanding. Since you know me far 475 00:27:55,457 --> 00:27:59,057 Speaker 4: better than I know myself. You comprehend me in all 476 00:27:59,057 --> 00:28:02,776 Speaker 4: my complexity. No detail of my life is hidden from you. 477 00:28:03,177 --> 00:28:05,736 Speaker 4: Yet I don't need to fear your intimate awareness of me, 478 00:28:05,857 --> 00:28:07,897 Speaker 4: because I know that you view me through the eyes 479 00:28:07,937 --> 00:28:08,417 Speaker 4: of grace. 480 00:28:09,297 --> 00:28:09,577 Speaker 3: Lord. 481 00:28:09,617 --> 00:28:11,936 Speaker 4: I want the light of your healing presence to shine 482 00:28:11,937 --> 00:28:16,937 Speaker 4: into the deepest recesses of my being. Cleansing, healing, refreshing, 483 00:28:17,017 --> 00:28:17,736 Speaker 4: and renewing me. 484 00:28:18,897 --> 00:28:19,457 Speaker 3: Help me to. 485 00:28:19,417 --> 00:28:22,257 Speaker 4: Trust you enough to accept the full forgiveness that you 486 00:28:22,337 --> 00:28:26,456 Speaker 4: offer me continually. This glorious gift costs you your life, 487 00:28:27,017 --> 00:28:30,617 Speaker 4: and it's mine for all eternity. I'm grateful that forgiveness 488 00:28:30,817 --> 00:28:33,936 Speaker 4: is at the very core of your abiding presence. You 489 00:28:33,977 --> 00:28:36,617 Speaker 4: assure me through your word, I will never leave you 490 00:28:36,737 --> 00:28:40,257 Speaker 4: nor forsake you. When no one else seems to understand me, 491 00:28:40,617 --> 00:28:43,657 Speaker 4: I can simply draw nearer to you, rejoicing in the 492 00:28:43,697 --> 00:28:47,777 Speaker 4: one who understands me completely and loves me perfectly. As 493 00:28:47,817 --> 00:28:49,977 Speaker 4: you fill me with your love, I long to become 494 00:28:50,017 --> 00:28:52,697 Speaker 4: a reservoir of love that overflows into the lives of 495 00:28:52,737 --> 00:28:56,057 Speaker 4: other people in your lovely name, Jesus Amen. 496 00:28:57,977 --> 00:29:01,457 Speaker 2: To learn more about doctor Joshua W. Brown, visit josh 497 00:29:01,497 --> 00:29:04,577 Speaker 2: brownneuro dot com and be sure to check out his 498 00:29:04,657 --> 00:29:08,057 Speaker 2: new Booking a Miracle, Unlocking the Power of Prayer to 499 00:29:08,137 --> 00:29:11,137 Speaker 2: Heal at your favorite retealer. If you'd like to hear 500 00:29:11,177 --> 00:29:14,377 Speaker 2: more stories about when neuroscience meets faith, check out our 501 00:29:14,417 --> 00:29:22,737 Speaker 2: interview with Brooke Envic. Next time on the Jesus Calling podcast, 502 00:29:22,937 --> 00:29:26,177 Speaker 2: we'll hear from Butch Hartman, the animator and creator behind 503 00:29:26,217 --> 00:29:29,577 Speaker 2: some of Nickelodeon's biggest shows, about why he walked away 504 00:29:29,737 --> 00:29:32,097 Speaker 2: after nearly twenty years of the network to start his 505 00:29:32,097 --> 00:29:32,697 Speaker 2: own studio. 506 00:29:33,977 --> 00:29:36,537 Speaker 5: Millions of people out there will never go into a church, 507 00:29:36,977 --> 00:29:38,417 Speaker 5: but they'll hold a screen in their hand and they'll 508 00:29:38,457 --> 00:29:41,377 Speaker 5: watch something. So it's my job, as a producer and 509 00:29:41,377 --> 00:29:43,737 Speaker 5: a showrunner and a studio head to make sure that 510 00:29:43,777 --> 00:29:47,217 Speaker 5: whatever goes on that screen is uplifting and is good 511 00:29:47,257 --> 00:29:48,817 Speaker 5: for people's souls and their spirit. 512 00:29:51,177 --> 00:29:53,737 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith 513 00:29:53,777 --> 00:29:57,577 Speaker 2: podcast on the Life Audio Network. Every week, we'll bring 514 00:29:57,657 --> 00:30:00,257 Speaker 2: you stories from people who share their journeys of faith 515 00:30:00,577 --> 00:30:04,297 Speaker 2: and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives. 516 00:30:05,017 --> 00:30:08,417 Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or 517 00:30:08,497 --> 00:30:11,737 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave us a review 518 00:30:11,857 --> 00:30:16,057 Speaker 2: so others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally, 519 00:30:16,337 --> 00:30:19,857 Speaker 2: you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus 520 00:30:19,897 --> 00:30:23,137 Speaker 2: Calling website at Jesuscalling dot com